[00:00] <crimsun> it doesn't make sense to nominate it for hardy yet ;-)
[00:00] <kai^sds> blueyed: probably not. at least i can't see how
[00:00] <crimsun> approved for gutsy.
[00:01] <blueyed> It's the same as Gutsy, isn't it? Should it rather get re-opened and set to closed for feisty and before?
[00:01] <blueyed> kai^sds: see the bug attachments sidebox and "edit" for your attachment.
[00:03] <blueyed> kai^sds: but probably you must be member of the Ubuntu Bugsquad team for this.
[00:03] <kai^sds> blueyed: thanks for the info. i have removed the older patch
[00:03] <blueyed> k :)
[00:03] <blueyed> Can you remove/edit other attachments as well?
[00:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 69455 in oprofile "[SRU] for oprofile, edgy-updates: bashism in oprofile's opcontrol script prevents user from setting any events" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69455
[00:04] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ping? - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[00:04] <blueyed> kai^sds: why isn't the fix for feisty not in gutsy anymore?
[00:05] <kai^sds> launchpad offers me the "Delete attachment" button for patches other than my own. i do not want to try it out now though
[00:05]  * blueyed is happy that this has not been abused yet
[00:05] <crimsun> blueyed: it was dropped quite some time ago
[00:05] <kai^sds> blueyed: good question. i don't know.
[00:05] <blueyed> crimsun: during gutsy development?
[00:06] <crimsun> blueyed: correct, during a merge
[00:08] <blueyed> Looks ok. Though it's "strange" to fix bashisms with using bash.. ;)
[00:09] <crimsun> blueyed: that's because it's not a fix; it's a hackaround
[00:09] <crimsun> for -proposed, the change must be minimal and easily understood
[00:10] <crimsun> /bin/sh -> /bin/bash satisfies both requirements
[00:10] <blueyed> Sure.
[00:13] <crimsun> kai^sds: should be versioned 0.9.3-1ubuntu1.1, and the distribution should be gutsy-proposed
[00:17] <kai^sds> so this line for example
[00:17] <kai^sds> +oprofile (0.9.3-1ubuntu2) gutsy; urgency=low
[00:17] <kai^sds> should be changed to
[00:17] <kai^sds> +oprofile (0.9.3-1ubuntu1.1) gutsy-proposed; urgency=low
[00:17] <kai^sds> ?
[00:17] <crimsun> correct
[00:18] <crimsun> (back in a bit.)
[00:24] <kai^sds> ok. done
[01:04] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:05] <nenolod> hi.
[01:06] <bddebian> Hello nenolod
[01:17] <blueyed> Cheers bddebian!
[01:17] <bddebian> Hello Blue
[01:17] <bddebian> Err blueyed
[01:22] <bmk789> whats the best way to start contributing to ubuntu without having programming knowledge?
[01:22] <rob> documentation is a good one
[01:23] <bmk789> writing documentation for what?
[01:23] <rob> bmk789, how to use Ubuntu, see #ubuntu-doc
[02:05] <bddebian> Where has pkern disappeared to?
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> So anyone tried installing with the encrypted partitions option yet?
[02:12] <TheMuso> Bed most likely
[02:12] <TheMuso> tonyyarusso: How does one find that option?
[02:12]  * TheMuso is considering it for his trip to UDS.
[02:20] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: Yup.
[02:20] <TheMuso> Where do you get the encrypted partitions option?
[02:20] <RAOF> TheMuso: The alternate CD.
[02:21] <TheMuso> Yeah I guessed, but do you have to use expert install?
[02:21] <RAOF> No.
[02:21] <TheMuso> oh
[02:21] <TheMuso> I'll have to dig a bit deeper then.
[02:21] <RAOF> When you (or, at least, when *I* did) get to the partitioning stage, you have the option "use as encrypted physical device" for any given partition.
[02:22] <jml> does the encryption take place on suspend or hibernate?
[02:22] <lifeless> what encryption
[02:22] <RAOF> jml: hibernate won't work if you use a random key for swap.
[02:23] <slangasek> jml: the encryption takes place on every write to disk
[02:23] <RAOF> jml: However, if you do what I did and use the encrypted partiton as an LVM PV, and build swap, /, /home on that, then it just works.
[02:31]  * TheMuso podners why he can't rsync an iso from his ISP mirror...
[02:42] <StevenK> TheMuso: Because Internode don't love you
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> TheMuso: it's on the alternate CD
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: any issues with it?
[03:00] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: any performance hit noticable?
[03:01] <pwnguin> RAOF: fix my fonts
[03:05] <TheMuso> StevenK: heh.
[03:06] <ajmitch> I thought it was more appropriate to blame telstra for all your woes?
[03:06] <TheMuso> No, internode can do that for me. :p
[03:06] <TheMuso> We pay them enough after all
[03:07] <ajmitch> heh
[03:12] <StevenK> Geez, git is very noisy
[03:13] <ajmitch> bzr is love by comparison
[03:14] <jmg_> ah, telstra.
[03:14] <jmg_> i have a fairly funny email from them
[03:25] <mdomsch> congrats to the MOTU team on the Gutsy release, and thanks for all your hard work!
[03:29] <bddebian> Thanks mdomsch :-)
[04:03] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: I haven't noticed one.  But my laptop is not an ideal candidate: slow HD, fast dual-core processor.
[04:04] <RAOF> Or rather, my laptop is a good candidate for seeing no performance hit.
[04:13] <bddebian> Sheesh is everyone asleep after release parties? :-)
[04:15] <ajmitch> yes
[04:16] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: gotcha
[04:16] <bddebian> Who's gonna help my dumb arse fix gnome-breakout :'-(
[04:16] <TheMuso> bddebian: Whats the problem with it
[04:17] <bddebian> TheMuso: I changed the path to install to /usr/share/games as it should instead of /usr/share.  Now on startup it's looking for the level files in the wrong dir
[04:17] <bddebian> It's like LEVELDIR is ignoring $(datadir)
[04:18] <bddebian> Or I should say it's using the default instead of what I set on configure
[04:18] <TheMuso> How did you tell it to use /usr/share/games?
[04:18] <bddebian>  --datadir=\$${prefix}/usr/share/games
[04:18] <TheMuso> bddebian: Is this a broken package in gutsy that you are trying to fix?
[04:18] <bddebian> TheMuso: No, new upsteam for Debian for Hardy :-)
[04:18] <TheMuso> And what is prefix set to?
[04:19] <bddebian>  --prefix=/usr
[04:19] <TheMuso> Well, it looks to me like datadir is being set to /usr/usr/share/games
[04:19] <bddebian> Sorry  --datadir=\$${prefix}/share/games
[04:19] <bddebian> That was a typo :)
[04:19] <TheMuso> right thats better.
[04:19] <TheMuso> Have you tried running the uild process by hand to see what happens?
[04:19] <TheMuso> build
[04:20] <bddebian> Yes
[04:21] <TheMuso> ok.
[04:21] <TheMuso> Could be autoconf breakage.
[04:21] <TheMuso> somewhere.
[04:22] <TheMuso> or automake
[04:24] <bddebian> It looks like it's doing the right thing.  Maybe it's a code issue..  http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/gnome-breakout/build.log
[04:27]  * TheMuso wonders whether the --locale config flag is correct..
[04:28] <TheMuso> I see what you mean however.
[04:28] <bddebian> I had to autoreconf to even get the --locale so I could put those files in /usr/share/locale and not /usr/share/games/locale
[04:28] <TheMuso> right
[04:29] <bddebian> then I had to munge po/Makefile.in.in
[04:29] <TheMuso> oh joy
[04:29] <TheMuso> Sounds like they don't use gnome-common for the autogen stuff then.
[04:30] <TheMuso> even though the package is gnome-breakout
[04:30] <jmg_> is there a backporting guide anywhere?
[04:34] <bddebian> TheMuso: It was a gnome 1 app but seems to build/work fine on 2
[04:35] <TheMuso> Oh.
[04:35]  * TheMuso subscribes to hardy changes.
[04:35] <jmg> heh
[04:35] <jmg> is it open?
[04:35] <TheMuso> Well, its frozen currently, but meh.
[04:36] <TheMuso> THe list exists, and my guess is from now till next thursday, the toolchain will be sorted.
[04:36] <TheMuso> As on the schedule draft at least, next thursday is when the toolchain nees to be done.
[04:37] <ajmitch> good idea
[04:37]  * ajmitch subscribes
[04:39]  * TheMuso now needs to make extra space for his LVM partitions, so he can create a hardy sbuild chroot.
[04:39] <bddebian> Hey, I thought you were helping me? :)
[04:39] <ajmitch> sigh, people doing unnecessary & incorrect wiki changes
[04:39] <TheMuso> I dunno where the problem is.
[04:39] <imbrandon> ajmitch: ?
[04:40] <ajmitch> someone changing 'buildds' on the UbuntuDevelopment page to 'builds'
[04:40] <TheMuso> bddebian: Where does one get the package from, as in the upstream source?
[04:40] <ajmitch> since they must have thought it was a typo
[04:40] <TheMuso> heh
[04:41] <TheMuso> Maybe its worth not abreviating it then.
[04:41] <TheMuso> abreeviating
[04:42] <ajmitch> no, it should be clarified
[04:43] <bddebian> I think it's this in flags.c:  #define DEFAULT_LEVEL_FILES (LEVELDIR "/alcaron.gbl;" LEVELDIR "/mdutour.gbl;" L
[04:43] <bddebian> EVELDIR "/mmack.gbl")
[04:43] <bddebian> TheMuso: http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/gnome-breakout/
[04:43] <ScottK> Just find the evil doer and have them flogged as an example to the rest (about wrong wiki changes).
[04:50] <TheMuso> bddebian: Ok I'll have a look.
[04:50] <bddebian> TheMuso: Thanks man, this thing is killing me. afaict it should work
[04:50] <bddebian> And the game works fine and I can select the levels from the preferences menu it's just the defaults levels at startup :-(
[04:51] <TheMuso> yep
[05:00] <TheMuso> bddebian: Ok it certainly seems that LEVELDIR sets properly during build as a macro. I'd say it is probably what you said re flags.c and the LEVEL_FILES definition.
[05:01] <bddebian> Aye but the question is why :-(
[05:01] <TheMuso> Indeed.
[05:02] <TheMuso> Maybe strace it perhaps?
[05:04] <bddebian> I don't know that I know strace :-(
[05:04] <bddebian> I pretty much suck at debugging stuff
[05:05] <TheMuso> hm ok
[05:06]  * bddebian needs a brain
[05:09]  * TheMuso rebuilds it with debugging symbols.
[05:11]  * TheMuso wonders if Kano just gets ignored by devs now.
[05:12]  * ScottK made the mistake of talking to him one.  I learned my lesson.
[05:13] <TheMuso> bddebian: Do you get an error if it can't find the levels?
[05:14] <bddebian> Just a pop-up warning
[05:14] <TheMuso> hmm
[05:14] <TheMuso> In a dialog box?
[05:14] <bddebian> Aye
[05:14] <TheMuso> Well, I'm going to rebuild again without symbols, but I don't get any warning.
[05:15] <bddebian> Really
[05:15] <TheMuso> Indeed.
[05:15] <bddebian> Can you start a new game?
[05:16] <TheMuso> Yes.
[05:16] <bddebian> Hmm, maybe I fixed it ;-P
[05:16] <bddebian> I wonder if it's leaving a some type of configuration around
[05:17] <TheMuso> Not from what I can see.
[05:19] <bddebian> Weird, now it works on this install
[05:20] <TheMuso> bddebian: heh what did you do? :p
[05:21] <TheMuso> bddebian: Yep, all goo dhere.
[05:21] <bddebian> The only thing I can figure is that maybe I was stupid and installed over a previous install or something
[05:21] <TheMuso> right
[05:22] <bddebian> Sorry to waste your time man :(
[05:22] <TheMuso> No problem.
[05:27] <LaserJock_> hmm, I don't suppose there's a way to fake an IP address?
[05:29] <jmg_> ifconfig?
[05:29] <LaserJock_> hmm
[05:29] <LaserJock_> that's not gonna work :/
[05:30] <LaserJock_> I'd like to change my public facing IP address when I'm behind a cable router
[05:31] <LaserJock_> but well, it's just a desperation plea ;-)
[05:31] <StevenK> LaserJock_: Fake how? Sure you can
[05:31] <LaserJock_> well, here's the situation
[05:32]  * StevenK pulls on his IP hat, listening
[05:32] <LaserJock_> I have hosts.allow set on my machine at how to allow a certain range of IPs
[05:32] <LaserJock_> now I'm at my grandpa's
[05:32] <LaserJock_> and I can't ssh to my box cause I've got a different public IP
[05:33] <LaserJock_> usually I could ssh into a uni machine and do it
[05:33] <LaserJock_> but after the recent compromises it looks like they've blocked us from doing that
[05:34] <LaserJock_> I think I'm probably just gonna do without
[05:35] <StevenK> LaserJock_: Right, the simple answer is, yes you can fake an IP - but how do you plan to get traffic back? Your machine is responsible for routing back
[05:36] <LaserJock_> hmm, right
[05:36] <StevenK> At which point your machine is not going to know that you're doing naughty things to defeat hosts.allow
[05:36] <LaserJock_> I need to get my grandpa's cable to get a new IP lease ;-)
[05:37] <TheMuso> How would that help?
[05:37] <ScottK> jdong: What's up with sharkattack?  Looks like it's dead from here.
[05:37] <StevenK> That part is easier - reboot the modem, or drop DCHP
[05:37] <jdong> ScottK: ugh, yeah, I need to walk over and investigate tomorrow...
[05:37] <ScottK> OK.
[05:39] <LaserJock_> maybe I should just take this as a sign that I should just have fun on my laptop and not worry about my dissertation for now ;-)
[05:39] <LaserJock_> I picked up a book on Ruby today at Barnes and Noble
[05:39] <jdong> LaserJock_: awesome
[05:39] <LaserJock_> there were gobs of Ruby books
[05:39] <jdong> LaserJock_: IMO it's a really nice language
[05:39] <LaserJock_> in fact
[05:40] <LaserJock_> I think only Java had more books
[05:40] <LaserJock_> other maybe some crap in the MS programming section
[05:40] <bddebian> *ahem*
[05:40] <LaserJock_> but there were more Ruby than C/C++, php, python at least
[05:40] <jdong> LaserJock_: well Rails has reached buzzword status
[05:40] <LaserJock_> yeah, totally
[05:41] <LaserJock_> 3/4 of the Ruby books were Ruby on Rails
[05:41] <LaserJock_> bddebian: :p
[05:41] <macd> LaserJock_, you want to start learning Ruby?
[05:41]  * macd hasnt ever looked back since he did
[05:41] <LaserJock_> well, I don't know
[05:42] <LaserJock_> I'm not really sure why I should
[05:42] <LaserJock_> other than I know a lot of people who use it
[05:42] <bddebian> Learn assembler holmes, be a man ;-P
[05:42] <StevenK> Meh, Rails is the only reason I wanted to learn Ruby
[05:42] <LaserJock_> well, I don't think I care about Rails
[05:42] <LaserJock_> maybe I will once I get into it, but right now it's not very interesting to me
[05:42] <macd> I knew ruby, then dove into rails, and had to relearn ruby
[05:43] <macd> but imho ruby is a nice lang
[05:43] <LaserJock_> there's a chemoinformatics guy that's into Ruby
[05:43] <macd> albeit slow.
[05:43] <jdong> I think ruby is a great power-user language
[05:43] <LaserJock_> and he's got lots of ruby info
[05:43] <LaserJock_> now he's into JRuby
[05:43] <jdong> it like gets you Python interactiveness with Perl power...
[05:43] <jdong> macd: ruby seems to hae MUCH more active plans to correct that than Python
[05:44] <macd> Yeah, Ruby2.0 has YARV, then it shall be much faster
[05:44] <LaserJock_> yeah, I guess that's my question, I know some python, so why would I want to learn Ruby?
[05:44] <macd> We tested it a bit with a rails app, and saw acorss the board increases, most were double.
[05:44] <jdong> LaserJock_: I find Ruby preferable to Python, now that I know both
[05:44]  * macd nods
[05:45] <LaserJock_> for compelling reasons, or just "cause it seems nice"?
[05:45] <jdong> sometimes Python's API can force you to write more OOP politically correct code than ruby beautiful compact code
[05:45] <jdong> the ruby block syntax is amazing
[05:45] <jdong> I love it
[05:45] <macd> Ruby is almost to easy to read
[05:45] <macd> and jdong hit it on the head with that
[05:46] <jdong> the only "complaint" I have about Ruby is its sigils for global / instance variables are not intuitively obvious
[05:46] <jdong> though straightforward once learned
[05:46] <LaserJock_> well, I'll give it a shot and see how it goes
[05:47] <LaserJock_> I'm not a programmer so sometimes the differences between languages isn't obvious to me
[05:47] <macd> yeah, Ive had trouble with my globals carrying into classes, but newer ruby versions have more inheritance
[05:47] <macd> thats more rails then ruby in my case though
[05:49] <LaserJock_> I've gotta also figure out what rails is useful for, I don't really know anything about it
[05:50] <macd> you can build a webapp pretty fast, other than that I dont see much use
[05:50] <LaserJock_> would it be similar to django?
[05:50] <jdong> LaserJock_: exactly
[05:51] <jdong> LaserJock_: django is a clone of rails for Python
[05:51] <LaserJock_> ok, sweet
[05:51] <LaserJock_> I've been learning django
[05:51] <LaserJock_> a little anyway
[05:51] <LaserJock_> you guys would laugh at the simple stuff I do
[05:52]  * bddebian wouldn't
[05:52] <bddebian> I can barely to "Hello World" ;-)
[05:52]  * tritium wouldn't
[05:52] <LaserJock_> tritium!!!!!
[05:52] <bddebian> s/to/do/
[05:52] <tritium> LaserJock_: :)
[05:52] <LaserJock_> tritium: I started my dissertation
[05:52] <tritium> LaserJock_: that's excellent!!!
[05:52] <LaserJock_> I might just graduate ;-)
[05:53] <tritium> Yay!
[05:53] <RAOF> Wooooo!
[05:53] <ScottK> LaserJock_: Do you read http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php
[05:53]  * RAOF has started a paper that will form a large part of his thesis, does that count? :P
[05:53] <tritium> RAOF: sure :)
[05:53] <LaserJock_> ScottK: yes, I get the RSS feed ;-)
[05:54] <tritium> RAOF: isn't that how we all do it?  :)
[05:54] <LaserJock_> ScottK: it's totally my lab :-)
[05:54] <ScottK> LaserJock_: Cool.  I thought it'd be something you'd like.
[05:54] <RAOF> tritium: I hear that some people actually just write a thesis, rather than cobbling together papers ;)
[05:54]  * ScottK thinks RAOF should read http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php too.
[05:55] <tritium> RAOF: what a hassle!
[05:55] <LaserJock_> RAOF: yeah, my dissertation will be that way
[05:55] <LaserJock_> my advisor tends to take like 3-4 years to get a paper out
[05:55] <RAOF> That guy came and talked at UNSW recently, although I missed it.
[05:55] <RAOF> LaserJock_: Wow.  He'd be totally fired in .au, from what I gather.
[05:56] <tritium> LaserJock_: although, after you graduate, I'd not suggest you come to work here
[05:56] <bddebian> Gah, gnight gang
[05:56] <tritium> Good night, bddebian :)
[05:56] <LaserJock_> tritium: yeah?
[05:56] <LaserJock_> cya bddebian
[05:56] <tritium> LaserJock_: yeah, sucks
[05:57] <LaserJock_> tritium: well, I'd most likely end up in Livermore if I was gonna go to a government lab
[05:58] <tritium> LaserJock_: things look even worse there (budget-wise)
[05:58] <LaserJock_> yeah? that's no fun
[05:58] <LaserJock_> last year one of the senior researchers were wondering if I wanted to go over there
[05:59] <LaserJock_> but it's California ...
[05:59] <tritium> nope, and raises this year were crap
[05:59] <LaserJock_> yeah, I'd honestly just like to get a teaching job at a small school in MT
[05:59] <tritium> Nice.
[05:59] <LaserJock_> but the odds of that are like nil
[06:00] <tritium> LaserJock_: you can do it, Nicky!
[06:01] <LaserJock_> actually, at this point I think I'd also like to check out chemisty software development
[06:03] <RAOF> LaserJock_: If the state of materials science software is any guide, practically *anything* you do would be gratefully received.
[06:04] <LaserJock_> I'm interested in science education software
[06:04] <tritium> LaserJock_: let's start our own company :)
[06:04] <LaserJock_> heh
[06:04] <LaserJock_> I'm not much of a business person
[06:04] <tritium> Nor am I.
[06:04] <LaserJock_> but I think computing has great potential in science
[06:05] <LaserJock_> most profs give computing lip-service at best
[06:05]  * tritium is surprised at that
[06:06] <RAOF> If the scientific software I've seen wasn't so totally rubbish, I'd imagine that would change.
[06:06] <tritium> I guess my experience in engineering was different
[06:06] <LaserJock_> in my department, we just have a few "computer" labs because that's what you do
[06:06] <LaserJock_> but nobody takes it seriously
[06:06] <tritium> Ah.
[06:07] <LaserJock_> I think the fact that most of the software costs >$1000 / license effects things
[06:07] <LaserJock_> students can't just take it home
[06:07] <LaserJock_> for research tools it's not bad
[06:08] <LaserJock_> but when it comes to education it's just a joke
[06:08] <LaserJock_> I had a grand scheme of writing a pluggable Chemistry education toolkit
[06:09] <RAOF> What would be in such a toolkit?
[06:09] <LaserJock_> where you had simulations of equations and chemical proccesses
[06:09] <LaserJock_> as well as actual content
[06:09] <LaserJock_> so a teacher could just kinda drag-n-drop an interactive and visually interesting presentation
[06:10] <LaserJock_> and it'd be open source
[06:10] <LaserJock_> so the content could be created by teachers everywhere
[06:10] <LaserJock_> and "modules" could be easily added
[06:10] <RAOF> Actually, I don't think I know what chemists do as far as research, apart from not being able to design catalysts :)
[06:10] <LaserJock_> I have no idea really how to do all that
[06:11] <LaserJock_> RAOF: it entirely depends on the field
[06:11] <LaserJock_> for my research I only need data acquisition and data processing/fitting
[06:11] <RAOF> I kinda think of mathematics as primary, so there's obvious stuff for _physicists_ to do, but not so much for chemists :)
[06:12] <LaserJock_> yes
[06:12] <LaserJock_> well, for organic chemists it's quite interesting
[06:12] <LaserJock_> the Blue Obelisk group is a loose organization of open source chemists
[06:13] <LaserJock_> and we look at writing open algorithms and open data
[06:13] <LaserJock_> one of the biggest problems right now
[06:13] <RAOF> Algorithms for... reaction moddling?  Folding?
[06:13] <LaserJock_> is how do you turn a molecule into a machine readable form
[06:13]  * RAOF 's background kinda brackets chemistry with maths and biochem ;)
[06:13] <LaserJock_> I can *draw* all kinds of molecules, but my computer knows nothing about them
[06:14] <RAOF> Isn't a molecule pretty well described by a network of atoms?
[06:14] <LaserJock_> hehe
[06:14] <lifeless> hell no
[06:14] <LaserJock_> very simplistically yes
[06:14] <lifeless> not if you want to handle things like 3-way electron sharing
[06:15] <RAOF> Plus a whole bunch of complicated quantum physics, but..
[06:15] <LaserJock_> but things like sterochemistry are very difficult
[06:15] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.  Of course.
[06:15] <LaserJock_> turning a 2d drawing into a 3d model is very difficult
[06:15] <lifeless> do you need to consider folking in the description ?
[06:15] <RAOF> lifeless: But that's really just a physical consequence of the atomic network, right?
[06:15] <LaserJock_> there's also huge amount of work to be done in data mining
[06:16] <lifeless> RAOF: now I'm out of depth
[06:16] <LaserJock_> RAOF: well, there's the atomic network, but then there's the electronic structure, etc.
[06:17] <LaserJock_> like I need to know that a sp3 hybridized carbon atom is attached to a chromium atom in a III oxidation state, etc.
[06:18] <RAOF> Mmm, yeah.
[06:19] <LaserJock_> RAOF: consider http://depth-first.com/articles/2007/10/11/how-would-your-cheminformatics-tool-do-this
[06:19] <jsgotangco> LaserJock_: ultra geeky
[06:19] <LaserJock_> RAOF: or http://depth-first.com/articles/2007/10/17/how-would-your-cheminformatics-tool-do-this
[06:19] <LaserJock_> the question is how to turn that stuff into a machine readable form
[06:20] <LaserJock_> so that say I'm given some form of "ID" I can recreate the molecule *exactly*
[06:20] <lifeless> FSVO exact? surel heisenberg is in here
[06:21] <LaserJock_> not exact in terms of bond lengths
[06:21] <LaserJock_> exact in terms of, this is the molecule I told you it was
[06:21] <lifeless> so I guess your __eq__ needs clarifying ;)
[06:22] <LaserJock_> is it zwitterionic, are the stereo centers all correct
[06:22] <LaserJock_> etc.
[06:22] <LaserJock_> the problem, I guess, is that chemistry is very creative and graphical
[06:22] <LaserJock_> and often times a lot less mathematical than say physics
[06:23] <RAOF> That's only because you don't understand it well enough :P (says the mathematician)
[06:23] <LaserJock_> well
[06:23] <lifeless> RAOF: I was thinking that ;)
[06:23] <LaserJock_> in some sense yes
[06:23] <RAOF> Also because *we* as mathematicians haven't got good tools for dealing with large-system complexity
[06:23] <LaserJock_> if we were able to do everything quantum mechanically then there would be much less uncertainty
[06:24] <frostburn> i heard someone say mathematicians
[06:24] <LaserJock_> but right now you can't really go beyond the hydrogen atom with approximations
[06:24] <LaserJock_> *without
[06:24] <RAOF> And that's partially our fault.
[06:24] <LaserJock_> chemistry just has a lot of issues
[06:24] <frostburn> you can't model the hydrogen atom precisely either o.O
[06:24] <LaserJock_> sure you can
[06:24]  * RAOF obviously is spokesman of the entire mathematical community.
[06:25] <LaserJock_> the hydrogen atom is an analytical solution
[06:25] <frostburn> Heisenberg uncertainty principle?
[06:25] <RAOF> frostburn: What exactly do you mean by juxtaposing "model" with "precisely" :P
[06:25] <frostburn> or neutron decay
[06:25] <LaserJock_> bah, who cares about Heisenburg ;-)
[06:26] <frostburn> RAOF, a model is an approximation, a "real" model doesn't exist and never will =]
[06:26] <LaserJock_> chemists haven't really gotten on the open source train yet
[06:26] <RAOF> Well, yes it does.  I contend that hydrogen atoms exist.  But yes, a precise model is useless.
[06:26] <frostburn> i'd say science in general hasn't either.  paying thousands of dollars per year for a journal subscription, no thanks
[06:27] <LaserJock_> any decent molecular drawing app has to handle over 80 different formats for describing a molecule
[06:27] <LaserJock_> frostburn: biology and physics are much more open than chemistry
[06:27] <frostburn> agreed, and biology damn you pharmaceutical companies
[06:28] <LaserJock_> well, yeah, but NIH balances that a lot
[06:28] <frostburn> so when are we going to port an autoverse to ubuntu...
[06:28] <LaserJock_> the best chemical databases come from NIH
[06:28] <LaserJock_> which is just sad to me
[06:28] <frostburn> capitalism at it's best
[06:29] <LaserJock_> s/best/best free or open/
[06:29] <pwnguin> heh
[06:29] <LaserJock_> in any case, I'm interested quite a bit in improving the FLOSS and computing situation in chemistry
[06:29] <pwnguin> im surprised mjg doesnt have more stories about dna sequences
[06:30] <pwnguin> i spent a semester in a bioinformatics course
[06:30] <LaserJock_> but I'm a physical chemist and not an chemoinformatics guy
[06:30]  * RAOF boggles at mentors.debian.net.  Why have you eaten my specto upload?
[06:30] <pwnguin> and its a miracle anyone believes we sequenced the human genome
[06:30] <frostburn> you can sequence it, but not have any idea how things relate
[06:30] <LaserJock_> in fact, my PhD research barely even requires a computer at all
[06:31] <pwnguin> frostburn: sure we do
[06:31] <RAOF> "the human genome" is an interesting falacy.
[06:31] <LaserJock_> ewww, bio stuff
[06:31] <pwnguin> its rather surprising how few changes it takes to make a new gene
[06:31] <RAOF> pwnguin: Well, one.
[06:31] <pwnguin> muscular dystrophy only needs a single base pair change
[06:31] <frostburn> pwnguin, there's no one "gene" that changes a persons hair, it's an interaction between several genes, and we're barely starting to understand this
[06:32] <pwnguin> frostburn: im deeply aware of the difficulties
[06:32] <RAOF> Because proteins are spectacularyl complicated things, and it's quite easy to break them.
[06:33] <LaserJock_> yeah
[06:33] <LaserJock_> I work on molecules with < 100 atoms
[06:33] <LaserJock_> and that's hard enough
[06:33] <pwnguin> RAOF: i was just surprised to discover that you can break them so easily with only a few base changes and not wind up with a massively different protein. i imagine selective pressures hide the millions of failed permuations
[06:33] <LaserJock_> it boggles my mind to think about proteins
[06:33] <frostburn> i usually don't
[06:33] <frostburn> that's why i like physics and math
[06:33] <LaserJock_> heh
[06:33] <RAOF> LaserJock_: And proteins with < 100 amino acids are pretty small ;)
[06:34] <LaserJock_> yeah, crazy
[06:34] <pwnguin> heh
[06:34] <LaserJock_> I think I'm gonna be doing some work with proteins in a little while
[06:34] <LaserJock_> I've got a collaboration going with a biochem group
[06:34] <pwnguin> try not to think about ternary protein structures
[06:35] <RAOF> And fold into compliated 3d structures, often with the help of other proteins, and in highly non-equilibrium situations.
[06:35] <LaserJock_> I'm not crazy about putting proteins in my instrument
[06:35] <frostburn> orgo was the reason my roomate went crazy and stopped talking to me for 2 years tyvm.
[06:35] <RAOF> s/equilibrium/homogeneous/
[06:35] <LaserJock_> frostburn: haha
[06:35] <pwnguin> frostburn: as long as he pays the rent...
[06:36] <LaserJock_> chemistry exists to make biochemists, pre-meds, and engineers go nuts
[06:36] <frostburn> pwnguin, dunno, just started talking to him again =P
[06:36] <pwnguin> oh man, ive seen some really bad perl code as a result of dna sequencing
[06:36] <LaserJock_> I've broken many a pre-med in Physical Chemistry Lab ;-)
[06:37] <pwnguin> this program for filtering for likely SNPs terminated on a divide by zero error
[06:37] <pwnguin> that appeared to be the intended method of operation
[06:37] <RAOF> What?  It segfaults when it's found something?
[06:37] <pwnguin> no
[06:37] <pwnguin> when it runs out of data
[06:37] <RAOF> Imagine I'm tired :)
[06:38] <pwnguin> floating point error
[06:38] <RAOF> Yeah, that's what I meant. :)
[06:38] <pwnguin> it writes everything it finds to a file
[06:38] <pwnguin> then when it cant find anything more, it dies on a divide by zero
[06:39] <pwnguin> phred and phrap are also amazing pieces of technology
[06:39] <pwnguin> they're delivered by uucp encoded email
[06:40] <frostburn> i'm out, i don't want nightmares of hydrogen models and probability densities
[06:40] <LaserJock_> haha
[06:40] <LaserJock_> wavfunctions .... mmmm
[06:40] <LaserJock_> I'm out too
[06:40] <LaserJock_> I gotta try some ruby and see if I can't do something useful with it
[06:41] <pwnguin> basically, i discovered that none of the biologists in the class were prepared to touch computers for use with science
[06:41] <LaserJock_> yep
[06:41] <LaserJock_> we had 1st year foreign grad students who'd never used a computer before
[06:41] <pwnguin> apparently if you dont like math biology is the place to be
[06:42] <LaserJock_> I've thought about doing a "Computing for Chemists" workshop for my department
[06:42] <LaserJock_> shell scripting would be a big hit
[06:42] <LaserJock_> people are doing repetitive tasks by hand
[06:42] <pwnguin> i have to say though
[06:42] <pwnguin> pdb and pymol are pretty cool
[06:43] <LaserJock_> if they gotta use the computers it'd be at least nice to use it efficiently
[06:43] <LaserJock_> I'm working on gchemutils upstream
[06:43] <pwnguin> i was able to follow along with most of the class on ubuntu
[06:43] <LaserJock_> I think it could be revolutionary software for chemists
[06:44] <LaserJock_> the problem with chemistry software is it's mostly written in Java :-)
[06:45] <pwnguin> or fortran :P
[06:45] <LaserJock_> oh, fortran is great
[06:45] <LaserJock_> Java is from the devil
[06:45] <pwnguin> yea, column rank arrays are natural
[06:46] <LaserJock_> I've *almost* got my boss to move to Fortran90 instead of Fortran77
[06:46] <LaserJock_> but python just doesn't make a dent
[06:48] <pwnguin> we had someone demo a shotgun sequencing app, where the cluster control software was written in...
[06:48] <pwnguin> visual basic
[06:48] <LaserJock_> for my analytical chemistry class we used just plain BASIC and DOS
[06:49] <LaserJock_> anyway, I'm out
[06:49] <LaserJock_> gnight MOTU Land
[06:55] <dholbach> good morning
[06:55] <ajmitch> hi dholbach
[06:55] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[07:24] <zakame> my someone's having a good time :)
[07:25] <gpocentek> hello
[07:25] <zakame> hi gpocentek
[07:25] <gpocentek> hello zakame
[07:25] <zakame> thanks dholbach
[07:25] <gpocentek> people are going crazy
[07:25] <dholbach> yeah
[07:26] <zakame> insanity, post-release.
[07:26] <dholbach> yeah
[07:28] <coNP[uni]> Hey MOTUs!
[07:29] <dholbach> hey coNP[uni]! :)
[07:29] <coNP[uni]> Hey Master Daniel! :)
[07:30] <coNP[uni]> I am *so* sad there is no +1 now... :(
[07:30] <coNP[uni]> I miss you, development Gutsy...
[07:31]  * coNP[uni] cries...
[07:31]  * superm1 cries too
[07:32] <superm1> and hi folks
[07:32] <coNP[uni]> Hey superm1
[07:32] <superm1> coNP[uni], university just started up for you i'm taking it if you've got the [uni] tag?
[07:32] <coNP[uni]> A month ago.
[07:32] <superm1> ah.
[07:33] <coNP[uni]> Actually this is my uni lab computer (that is usually always turned on)
[07:33] <superm1> about 1.5 months ago on me.  i might have to actually focus on school work now that archives are frozen and we're all released now :)
[07:36] <coNP[uni]> superm1: same applies for me. :)
[07:36] <coNP[uni]> Actually I am not here ATM but our lecturer is late :)
[08:17] <Hobbsee> hm, no slytherin pong.
[08:21] <lifeless> where is the doctor
[08:21] <Hobbsee> off sick?
[08:25] <BugMaN> hi all
[08:32] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i think you need the doctor?
[08:33] <Hobbsee> actually giving an interview???
[08:34] <ajmitch> I didn't, really
[08:35] <Hobbsee> you're mentioend and quoted.
[08:36] <Hobbsee> have you taken over the world yet too?
[08:36] <ajmitch> no :P
[08:37] <Hobbsee> pity
[08:50] <Whoopie> jdong: hi, where did you find the fglrx patch for xen/rt?
[08:53] <jmg> rt?
[09:00] <Whoopie> jmg: real time
[09:05] <jmg> theres a xen/realtime patch?\
[09:14] <amarillion> can I use pbuilder to test a package that build-depends on sun-java5-jdk? I run into problems because of this error: 'sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented'
[09:17] <geser> amarillion: even if you manage to build it in pbuilder, you get the same problem on the buildds
[09:17] <amarillion> Yeah I thought so.
[09:17] <geser> doesn't it build with one of the free java implementations?
[09:18] <amarillion> I thought those aren't java5 compatible?
[09:18] <man-di> amarillion: use java-gcj-compat-dev
[09:18] <man-di> its java5 compatible now (minus bugs)
[09:18] <amarillion> I'll try, thanks
[09:19] <amarillion> btw, I thought java was going to be released as GPL. Hasn't that happened yet?
[09:19] <geser> man-di: do you know how usable icedtea (java7) is already?
[09:20] <jmg> amarillion: timeline
[09:20] <man-di> geser: usable
[09:20] <man-di> but i386 and amd64 only
[09:21] <man-di> amarillion: its partly done, not full
[09:22] <amarillion> Does it make sense to list more than one possible build-dep like this:
[09:22] <amarillion> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), ant, java-gcj-compat-dev | sun-java5-jdk | sun-java6-jdk
[09:22] <amarillion> ?
[09:22] <amarillion> Or should I make separate binary packages for each?
[09:28] <man-di> amarillion: please dont
[09:29] <man-di> amarillion: build with one runtime
[09:29] <man-di> and be dont
[09:29] <man-di> done
[09:29] <amarillion> ok
[10:04] <norsetto> good first hardy day to everybody ....
[10:06] <Fujitsu> norsetto: Evening.
[10:07] <geser> Hi norsetto, Fujitsu
[10:07] <norsetto> hey geser, how is this votation working, do we have to say which of the two we prefer, or say wether we like them or not?
[10:08] <soren> Whether you like us or not.
[10:08] <soren> It's not so much an election than a vote of trust.
[10:09] <soren> s/than/as/
[10:09] <norsetto> soren, ok, where I can see a picture of you then? If you both are uglier than me I can trust you
[10:09] <geser> haven't two MC members retired? so there are to positions to fill
[10:12] <dholbach> GO HARDY! :)
[10:13] <dholbach> it's as geser says: two positions are open, there are two nominees, all ubuntu-devs will either confirm the nominees or not
[10:13] <norsetto> dholbach: go HARDY go!!
[10:13]  * dholbach does the first uploads :-)
[10:13] <BugMaN> hi dholbach!
[10:13] <dholbach> hey BugMaN
[10:13] <StevenK> dholbach: It's frozen, so nyah :-P
[10:13] <norsetto> dholbach: woot? Is the repo already open!?
[10:13] <BugMaN> ave norsetto! :)
[10:14] <norsetto> ave bugman! morituri te salutant
[10:14] <dholbach> norsetto: is it that bad?
[10:14] <norsetto> dholbach: remember the mentoring meeting?
[10:15] <dholbach> norsetto: yes
[10:15] <norsetto> dholbach: so ......
[10:15] <dholbach> norsetto: hmm?
[10:15] <norsetto> dholbach: do you think I will make it out alive?
[10:16] <dholbach> of course :-)
[10:16] <dholbach> we need you
[10:16] <norsetto> dholbach: ok uncle daniel ;-)
[10:16] <dholbach> :-)
[10:16] <soren> norsetto: Heh... https://launchpadlibrarian.net/7101101/hackergotchi-192px.png <-- That's me.
[10:16] <norsetto> dholbach: can you please stop pointing that finger at me? Its intimidating
[10:17]  * norsetto check soren
[10:17] <Hobbsee> morning dholbach
[10:17] <dholbach> norsetto: hu? intimidating? what?
[10:17] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee :)
[10:17]  * Hobbsee thinks we should all upload lots of crack now
[10:17] <norsetto> soren: woot? You are not blonde? What kind of a northern european you are ;-)
[10:17] <Hobbsee> if i approve it, it can be done silently!  :D
[10:17] <Hobbsee> no one will ever know...
[10:18]  * Hobbsee looks innocently around
[10:18] <soren> norsetto: :(
[10:19] <norsetto> soren: hey, just kidding eh .... don't take me seriously (although you will be the first to do so .....)
[10:19] <BugMaN> Hobbsee: hi, i try to ask someone to active my cloak can you give me an hand? :)
[10:20] <soren> norsetto: Don't worry. I won't ;)
[10:21] <Hobbsee> BugMaN: no, sorry.  ask in #ubuntu-ops in ~6 hours, maybe.
[10:21] <BugMaN> Hobbsee: ok thanks, i jusk ask in @ubuntu-ops
[11:11] <proppy> hi
[11:11] <proppy> norsetto: ping
[11:12]  * proppy freshly gutsy updated
[11:27] <norsetto> proppy: pong
[11:33] <slytherin> Hobbsee: ping
[11:34] <Hobbsee> slytherin: pong
[11:34] <slytherin> Hobbsee: pm? I need to discuss FOSS.IN thing (if you have read my memo). :-)
[11:39] <Hobbsee> slytherin: sure.
[11:41] <proppy> norsetto: ping
[11:41] <proppy> again
[11:41]  * TheMuso can't seem to see the MOTU meeting on the fridge.
[11:41] <proppy> norsetto: I've though about a new strategy regarding viewvc bug
[11:41] <proppy> norsetto: instead of improving viewvc-config
[11:42] <proppy> norsetto: make a 100% specific python script
[11:42] <proppy> norsetto: which use http://docs.python.org/lib/RawConfigParser-objects.html to add template_dir option
[11:42] <proppy> norsetto: and the small regexp we've tested to comment template lines
[11:42] <proppy> norsetto: what do you think ?
[11:43]  * Hobbsee waves to TheMuso and proppy 
[11:43] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[11:43]  * norsetto complains
[11:43] <TheMuso> am I right then that the meeting is in an hour and a bit?
[11:43]  * Hobbsee waves to norsetto too
[11:43] <Hobbsee> proppy: btw, i'm not a woman.  i'm a green alien.
[11:44]  * norsetto waves back with a big grin on his face
[11:44]  * proppy Hobbsee hello sed addict !
[11:44] <soren> Motu meeting is in an hour and 15 minutes, right?
[11:44]  * proppy silently consider if he wants to hug a green alien
[11:44]  * proppy waves to Hobbsee
[11:45] <proppy> waving is fine for others species
[11:45] <norsetto> proppy: whatever you believe is more approprate, but you have to convince the DD, so, make it simple and effective
[11:45] <norsetto> motu meeting is at 12:00 UTC, so, yes 1h15m from now
[11:46] <soren> norsetto: Great, thanks.
[11:46] <norsetto> anyone know when we can upload to hardy?
[11:47] <Hobbsee> after the toolchain is built.
[11:47] <soren> norsetto: The toolchain needs to get uploaded and built first.
[11:47] <soren> Probably middle of next week, I think.
[11:48] <norsetto> Hobbsee, soren: okki, thx
[11:48]  * norsetto is eager to upload the latest crack
[11:48]  * TheMuso saw an upload to hardy on changes. A gcc upload.
[11:48] <TheMuso> norsetto: tsk tsk tsk. Shame on you. This is an LTS release.
[11:49] <norsetto> TheMuso: yes, longer term fun :-)
[11:50] <norsetto> Hobbsee: this selene is flooding me with emails
[11:51]  * proppy is not as good as norsetto when it comes to joking
[11:51] <Hobbsee> norsetto: selene?
[11:51] <norsetto> Hobbsee: you just declined her for u-u-s
[11:52] <Hobbsee> norsetto: ugh.
[11:52] <proppy> norsetto: I don't think the dd will be happy to see bug introduced in his code :)
[11:52] <Hobbsee> you're mentoring?
[11:54] <norsetto> Hobbsee: well, I got 3 emails from her this morning, telling me how excited she was to: 1) having applied for MOTU 2) if I could be her mentor 3) what she should do with your email
[11:55]  * norsetto tries to explain again to selene what this is all about
[11:55] <Hobbsee> norsetto: ...yuck
[11:55] <Hobbsee> i thought they couldnt apply for MOTU
[11:55] <Hobbsee> oh, she must haev thought that the sponsors was MOTU
[11:56] <norsetto> Hobbsee: well, apparently she just requested to join u-u-s, I wonder how many requests like this she did
[11:57] <Hobbsee> goodness only knows
[11:57] <Hobbsee> i just pasted her what the main page says. if they don't read that the first time, then they might just raed it when it gets emailed to them
[11:59] <persia> Hobbsee: I just looked at that page again, and it seems to have double content.  Do we need the first three paragraphs?
[12:01] <Hobbsee> persia: you recommended it to me, iirc
[12:02] <persia> Hobbsee: I stupidly didn't check after the update.  I had intended paragraphs 4-6 to replace paragraphs 1-3.
[12:02] <persia> Umm.  Rather, paragraphs 3-6 to replace something.  I don't know.
[12:03] <persia> Anyway, paragraphs 1 & 4 seem to say the same thing, and paragraphs 2 & 5+6 seem to say the same thing.
[12:03] <Hobbsee> persia: right
[12:04] <proppy> norsetto: I think I know why the DD is not using configparser
[12:04] <proppy> norsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/viewvc.conf
[12:04] <persia> Do you think it's safe to delete paragraphs 1 & 2 then?
[12:04] <proppy> norsetto: it strips out all the comment
[12:04] <norsetto> proppy: ah
[12:04] <norsetto> proppy: nice libraries you have in python .....
[12:06] <proppy> norsetto: maybe I've missed something
[12:06] <Hobbsee> note to general public:  if you wish for a group of people to vote something, when telling them "this pole is up", consider giving them the actual link
[12:07] <StevenK> Hobbsee: "poll"
[12:07] <Hobbsee> oh, i thought it looked wrong.
[12:07] <StevenK> Are they up under motu-council?
[12:07] <norsetto> lol
[12:08] <StevenK> But agreed, I want to be lazy and just click links too. :-P
[12:08] <persia> They are under ~ubuntu-dev
[12:08] <dholbach> http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/polls
[12:08] <dholbach> http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls
[12:08] <dholbach> Hobbsee: tell sabdfl :)
[12:08] <dholbach> anyway...
[12:08]  * dholbach -> dogwalk
[12:08] <Hobbsee> dholbach: yeah, i plan to.
[12:09] <StevenK> No wonder I couldn't find them.
[12:09] <dholbach> but luckily we had sistpoty watching all this and he forwarded it to all of us, so no harm done
[12:10] <TheMuso> um I don't see any new polls.
[12:10] <Hobbsee> dholbach: no, they dont help.  the polls still arent listed tehre
[12:10]  * norsetto goes to eat something before the meeting parade begins
[12:11] <dholbach> Hobbsee: if nobody writes a follow up mail with http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls in it, I'll do it, when I get back
[12:12]  * persia sees "Current polls" listed at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+polls 
[12:12] <StevenK> As do I
[12:12]  * StevenK has already voted for one
[12:12] <TheMuso> of course
[12:13] <StevenK> And there's both.
[12:14] <StevenK> Yay. gcc-4.2 is the first upload to hardy.
[12:16] <persia> StevenK: Doesn't the toolchain always go first?
[12:17] <TheMuso> persia: yes
[12:17] <StevenK> persia: gcc-4.2 looks like part of the toolchain to me
[12:17] <persia> That's why I don't understand the "Yay"
[12:17] <StevenK> The yay is more pointing it at being the first ever upload to hardy
[12:18] <Hobbsee> right, voted.
[12:18]  * persia resolves to be less inquisitive about random things
[12:19] <proppy> norsetto: what do you think of http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/file/66390d556e22/home/www/comment/viewvc-template ?
[12:20] <proppy> norsetto: it passed the following test http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/file/66390d556e22/home/www/comment/test-viewvc-template.sh
[12:30] <TheMuso> asac: Just wondering, is there gran-paradiso alpha8 in a PPA anywhere?
[12:31] <asac> its in gutsy universe
[12:31] <asac> install firefox-3.0 package
[12:31] <asac> TheMuso: :-D
[12:31] <TheMuso> oh ok, I don't remember seeing it on gutsy changes.
[12:32] <TheMuso> never mind me then.
[12:51] <norsetto> proppy: remember that this will be called from the postinst script, so make sure it is installed in the right place and uses the rigth paths
[12:52] <proppy> norsetto: yep but do you have anything about the script being so specific ?
[12:52] <proppy> norsetto: it takes no argument for the moment, and it's only purpose is to add/comment the desired line
[12:52] <norsetto> proppy: and is that not enough?
[12:52] <TheMuso> Meeting in 7 minutes.
[12:53] <proppy> norsetto: I'm worried about the next version of the package
[12:53] <proppy> norsetto: the maintainer will have to look at the python code to find if if still relevant
[12:53] <norsetto> proppy: this is why we submit it to Debian, its up to them to decide how to proceed
[12:53] <proppy> norsetto: instead of looking a a script like .postint
[12:53] <proppy> ok
[12:53] <proppy> let's make a first submission like this
[12:54] <proppy> and see with them if there is a pb with it
[12:54] <proppy> understood :)
[12:55] <norsetto> proppy: you will join the meetings I hope?
[12:55] <proppy> norsetto: If I'm invited sure :)
[12:56] <norsetto> proppy: what? You are not subscribed to motu-mentoring and/or motu?
[12:56] <proppy> norsetto: To submit an appropriate bug report, I guess we'll have to reproduce it properly on debian (which is something I've not done so far)
[12:56] <norsetto> proppy: thats easy, just do a sid chroot
[12:57] <norsetto> proppy: but you don't need to do that, just test it with the feisty-gutsy case
[12:57] <nxvl> good morning
[12:57] <proppy> norsetto: I'm suscribed to to the list :)
[12:57] <dholbach> MOTU meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[12:58] <norsetto> proppy: so? everybody on those lists was invited ... no lame excuses
[12:58] <proppy> let's talk about this bug after the meeting time :)
[12:58] <proppy> norsetto: so so so
[12:58] <persia> Actually, anyone interested in Universe development is invited.  No need to be subscribed to the lists.
[12:59] <norsetto> persia: as long as they know about it, which might not be the case if they are not subscribed .....
[12:59] <persia> norsetto: Depends.  Some people read the archives...
[13:00] <ScottK> Or notice mention here.
[13:00] <TheMuso> meeting now
[13:03] <nxvl> !uds
[13:09] <fernando> moin all
[13:27] <huats> hi everybody
[13:27] <ubotu> The Ubuntu Developer Summit is being held Oct 29th to Nov 2nd in Boston, USA.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Boston
[13:28] <norsetto> huats: #ubuntu-meeting
[13:28]  * ajmitch forgot about meeting, oh well
[13:28] <huats> ajmitch: when the meeting is over I'd like to talk with you :-)
[13:29] <huats> norsetto: thanks...
[13:29]  * ajmitch will be asleep
[13:29] <norsetto> ajmitch: oh oh, he wants to talk with you, be VERY scared ....
[13:29] <ajmitch> if it's about zope stuff (as you mentioned in channel), best to talk to the debian zope team
[13:29] <huats> ajmitch: it is about zope indeed...
[13:30] <huats> ajmitch: sorry to ask, but how to talk with the team ?
[13:31] <ajmitch> pkg-zope-developers@lists.alioth.debian.org
[13:32] <huats> ajmitch: ok thanks
[13:32] <huats> I'll drop an email..
[13:33] <huats> basically it is : OK, I'd like to help... what can I do :-)
[13:36] <huats> ajmitch: I've sent the email... thanks...
[13:47] <eolo999> eolo999: ciao
[13:52] <proppy> norsetto: want to share a room @boston ?
[13:52] <norsetto> proppy: thx, but I will pass this time, next one should be in Europe, so its gonna be easier
[13:53] <proppy> norsetto: ah right where ?
[13:53] <norsetto> proppy: don't think its fixed, there was an email out asking for ideas
[13:54] <norsetto> proppy: just in case, I snore .... badly ;-)
[13:57] <proppy> norsetto: you should update your lp page with that type of information
[13:57] <norsetto> lol
[13:58] <coNP[uni]> Hey norsetto, predius
[13:58] <coNP[uni]> Even proppy
[13:59] <TheMuso> ScottK: Then if we did backporting, I'd put my hand up to help.
[13:59] <ScottK> persia: New packages can be backported as long as all dependencies are met.
[13:59] <norsetto> coNP[uni]: #ubuntu-meeting
[13:59] <ScottK> TheMuso: What we really need help with in backports is testing.
[13:59] <TheMuso> ScottK: Well whatever.
[14:00] <persia> ScottK: Ah.  Right.  Perhaps we should do a mdt run on gutsy/hardy to see easy candidates through to DIF (although it becomes less useful with time)
[14:00] <proppy> predius ?
[14:00] <ScottK> If you get a shiny new package into gutsy-backports, people will use it and report bugs.
[14:00] <coNP[uni]> Oh, we have friday now :(
[14:00] <TheMuso> ScottK: I'd be helping with testing ackages that we want people to try out.
[14:01] <ScottK> TheMuso: Just to give you a sample, this is the current Feisty backports backlog https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bugs
[14:01] <TheMuso> ScottK: So are these packages already built, or do we build them ourselves
[14:01] <ScottK> persia: When reviewing new packages if one keeps backports in mind, it's easier.
[14:02] <TheMuso> ScottK: out
[14:02] <TheMuso> ouch
[14:02] <TheMuso> even
[14:02] <persia> ScottK: Do you mean trying to compile against both current and development?
[14:02] <ScottK> TheMuso: You can build them yourself or jdong has a tool he calls sharkattack (down as of last night) that will build them for you.
[14:02] <TheMuso> ScottK: meh I'd trust my sbuild more I think.
[14:02] <TheMuso> not that jdong's tool isn't bad of course.
[14:02] <TheMuso> But its what I'm used to.
[14:02] <ScottK> TheMuso: Yeah, me too (pbuilder for me though)
[14:02] <TheMuso> to each their own.
[14:03] <ScottK> persia: I was thinking more of reviewing depends to make sure versioned depends aren't higher than they need to be.
[14:03]  * persia thinks testing an "official" build would help reduce compile-time issues (not that these are common for backports)
[14:03] <persia> ScottK: You do that manually?
[14:03] <TheMuso> ScottK: Well, I may consider joining up, and giving you guys a hand.
[14:03] <ScottK> persia: IMO many people set versioned depends to be the version in their target distro and not the minimun version it needs to be.
[14:04] <ScottK> persia: Do which manually?
[14:04] <persia> ScottK: Manually check versioned depends.  Personally, I'm opposed to them unless someone can show me that they depend on a certain version for a clear reason (based on the published changelog)
[14:05] <ScottK> persia: Agreed, but I don't think it's something everyone checks closely for.
[14:06] <ScottK> Or in some cases if you consider backports in your depends, you can use "|" depends to make a package backportable.
[14:06] <persia> ScottK: Maybe there should be a clearer list of things to check, both for people making packages, and people reviewing packages.  Current docs are a little vague, and I shouldn't have a reputation for being picky for just running lintian and linda and checking copyright.
[14:06]  * ScottK doesn't think that's picky.
[14:07] <persia> ScottK: exactly.  That's why I think more docs on good things to check would be helpful, for everyone.
[14:07] <ScottK> My basic idea is that if we make a concious effort to push more New packages into backports to get early user exposure, we've a better chance of having better packages at the end.
[14:07] <ScottK> persia: Agreed.
[14:08] <bsund> is there a reason why lots of stuff is kinda outdated? or do you need ppl to contribute? for example xmoto and azureus is kinda old
[14:08] <ScottK> As long as there's no rule I need to submit a filled out copy of the checklist in triplicate before advocating a package, I'm happy.
[14:08] <ScottK> bsund: Yes.
[14:09] <Fujitsu> bsund: Azureus is evil. Very very evil.
[14:09] <ScottK> That would be the reason for Azureus.
[14:09] <proppy> coNP[uni]: predius ?
[14:09] <Fujitsu> It's a complete mess, and I'm still TIL after uploading a fix for jdong.
[14:09] <Fujitsu> A long time ago.
[14:10] <soren> Fujitsu: TIL?
[14:10] <Fujitsu> soren: Touched It Last.
[14:11]  * soren is mildly annoyed that he managed to miss the meeting once again.
[14:11] <soren> Fujitsu: Oh.
[14:14] <proppy> norsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/843c8bf25841
[14:15] <proppy> norsetto: last fix before post.inst
[14:28]  * proppy propaway
[14:28] <proppy> oops
[14:39] <amarillion> Is there documentation on the differences between gcj and sun-java? I'm trying to get my package to build with gcj
[14:40] <amarillion> I get some compile errors that seem pretty minor, so it can probably be fixed
[14:56] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 2 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[15:35] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:36] <persia> hey bddebian
[15:37] <cypherbios|lunch> hi bddebian
[15:37] <bddebian> Heya persia, cypherbios|lunch
[15:38] <geser> Hi bddebian
[15:39] <imbrandon> moins all
[15:39] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[15:39] <bddebian> Heya geser, imbrandon
[15:39] <imbrandon> cypherbios|lunch: ... of uboontu ?
[15:40] <cypherbios|lunch> imbrandon: yes, but usually without the '|lunch' ;)
[15:40] <imbrandon> ahh cool, poke me sometime , i dident realize you hung out on irc
[15:40] <cypherbios|lunch> imbrandon: I think we need to talk
[15:41] <imbrandon> yea
[15:41] <imbrandon> :)
[15:41] <cypherbios|lunch> imbrandon: give me 10 minutes to finish my lunch and then we can talk
[15:41] <imbrandon> np, i'm in no hurry
[15:47] <Hobbsee> norsetto: that's two people who cant read instructions for the night.  *sigh*
[15:48] <Hobbsee> norsetto: which paragraphs did you say to merge, sorry?
[15:48] <norsetto> Hobbsee: err, what did I say!?
[15:49] <Hobbsee> norsetto: u-u-s
[15:50] <Hobbsee> oh, first 2 paragraphs didnt get dropped, i see
[15:51]  * persia thanks Hobbsee for dilligence and excellent memory :)
[15:51] <ScottK> StevenK: I just hacked (in the painful sense of the word) your requestsync script to spit out a list of packages in Debian Python Modules Team that has an Ubuntu diff to make it easy to look for fixes to feed back.
[15:51] <Hobbsee> oh, crud1
[15:51] <Hobbsee> norsetto: persia: sorry!
[15:51] <persia> Hobbsee: About?
[15:51] <Hobbsee> persia: u-u-s paragraphs
[15:52] <Hobbsee> oh, bah.
[15:52]  * Hobbsee spies a LP bug
[15:52] <cypherbios> imbrandon: pvt
[15:52] <Hobbsee> oh, i see :)
[15:52] <StevenK> ScottK: Why would you hack requestsync for that?
[15:52] <Hobbsee> persia: 2 places for the same sorts of info.  who the team is, and what they do
[15:53] <persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Annoying.
[15:53] <Hobbsee> yup
[15:53] <Hobbsee> on different screens, too
[15:53] <ScottK> StevenK: Because it already knows how to look up the version of a package in Ubuntu and Debian.
[15:53] <ScottK> That's really all I used out of it.
[15:54] <persia> Hobbsee: Lovely.  There should at least be some visual aid to help administrators understand that.
[15:54] <Hobbsee> yeah, well.
[15:54] <norsetto> Hobbsee: for a moment you scared me .....
[15:54] <StevenK> ScottK: You mean that lovely rmadison script? :-)
[15:54] <ScottK> Yeah.  That one.
[15:55] <ScottK> No one else has to ever see how ugly I made it and it works.  Good enough.
[15:55] <Hobbsee> nxvl: ping
[16:01] <nxvl> Hobbsee: pong
[16:01] <Hobbsee> nxvl: can you explain to me about ubuntu-universe-sponsors please?
[16:02] <nxvl> Hobbsee: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[16:02] <persia> nxvl: Hobbsee is the administrator of the team: another question may be being asked.
[16:03] <nxvl> Hobbsee: is like a tutor, they will check your work, and if they think it's right, they will upload your packages
[16:03] <nxvl> persia: heh
[16:03] <nxvl> Hobbsee: what do you mean?
[16:03] <proppy> norsetto: ping
[16:04] <Hobbsee> nxvl: indeed.  but the people *in* that team are the tutors.  did you read https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ before joining?
[16:04] <norsetto> prooppy: in #ubuntu-classroom
[16:04] <Hobbsee> not the tutorees
[16:04] <proppy> damn seems I've missed the Q&A
[16:04] <persia> proppy: Still ongoing: feel free to join now...
[16:05] <nxvl> Hobbsee: oh! ok, i think i misundestud it :S
[16:05] <proppy> woo long session
[16:05] <dholbach> proppy: #ubuntu-classroom
[16:05] <nxvl> Hobbsee: sorry about that
[16:05] <Hobbsee> nxvl: no problem, you're just the second tonight, and i'm starting to wonder if it's unclear or something
[16:06] <nxvl> Hobbsee: i think is more a LP problem than any other thing, for new people (like me) is just like, open the page, and click on join the team
[16:07] <nxvl> Hobbsee: it's kind of default actions
[16:07] <Hobbsee> nxvl: actually, the page should probably point to the overview page, not the bugs page.
[16:07] <Hobbsee> (the wiki)
[16:08] <nxvl> the point to the bugs?
[16:08] <nxvl> i didn't remember that
[16:08]  * nxvl opens the wiki
[16:08] <nxvl> btw, i hate mi conection
[16:08] <nxvl> connection*
[16:09] <zul_> i love kdiff3 and filterdiff
[16:10] <nxvl> i'm trying to download hardy's debootstrap, can anyone point me to the package cause browsing the repos is a nightmare here
[16:10] <persia> nxvl: Hardy doesn't exist today: wait :)
[16:10] <nxvl> persia: but it's on the repos
[16:10] <persia> zul: Have you tried editdiff?
[16:11] <nxvl> persia: it's still like a copy of gutsy
[16:11] <nxvl> ?
[16:11] <zul_> persia: dont need it im trying to port something to be a bit more modern
[16:11] <nxvl> Hobbsee: it point to the bugs AND the overview
[16:12] <persia> nxvl: It's a scratch area to work out the new build tools.  There will be an annoucement when it starts being ready for investigation.
[16:12] <nxvl> well, back to -classroom
[16:12] <Hobbsee> right, so then it's not my problem if people cant actually read, and use thought.  great!  :)
[16:12] <nxvl> persia: oh!, ok thnx :D
[16:12]  * Hobbsee wishes the people at work would *also* employ thought.  </bitter>
[16:12] <persia> zul: Ah.  Good.  editdiff is just one of my favorites from patchutils when I'm using patches.
[16:13] <zul_> Hobbsee: thats everywhere
[16:14] <Hobbsee> zul_: yeah, well.
[17:12] <norsetto> geser, persia: thx for your help guys
[17:22] <proppy> norsetto: #154399
[17:23] <proppy> bug #154399
[17:23] <norsetto> bug 154399
[17:23] <norsetto> ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................
[17:23] <proppy> broken ?
[17:23]  * proppy https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/154399
[17:23] <proppy> :)
[17:26] <norsetto> proppy: is it working? Just cosmetic, could you break the line with a backslash?
[17:27] <norsetto> proppy: you should ask lamont advice in any case, he might be here or in #ubuntu-devel
[17:27] <proppy> norsetto: proppy@nekun:/usr/src/umount-test$ zgrep "nfs-common" usr/share/man/man8/mount.8.gz
[17:27] <proppy> man page (nfs-common package must be installed).
[17:27] <persia> I'd definitely ask.  While this is an elegant solution, direct patching may be preferred.
[17:28] <proppy> lamont: ping
[17:28] <proppy> norsetto: persia: thanks
[17:29] <persia> proppy: Just to be clear, asking isn't always preferred, but in the case where the Debian maintainer is active in Ubuntu, it's generally nicer.
[17:30] <lamont> proppy: mount manpage needs lots of love
[17:31] <lamont> anyway, what's the actual content behind your ping?
[17:31] <tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, ping
[17:31] <Hobbsee> You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[17:31] <lamont> Hobbsee: if that's an xchat module, I want it
[17:32] <norsetto> lamont: no, its her playing around .... devious Hobbsee
[17:32] <proppy> lamont: Are you up reviewing my debdiff to bug #154399 (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/154399)
[17:32] <proppy> ?
[17:32] <persia> norsetto: There are a couple scripts with that text floating about...
[17:32] <tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, heh me too
[17:33] <lamont> proppy: which version was the bug complaining about?
[17:33]  * tuxmaniac googles
[17:33] <pochu> lamont: http://dannf.org/src/contentlessping.py
[17:33] <tuxmaniac> pochu, danke
[17:33] <lamont> pochu: that'd be the guy
[17:33] <tuxmaniac> oops thanks
[17:34] <proppy> lamont: I've updated the bug description https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/154399
[17:35] <proppy> lamont: util-linux 2.13
[17:35] <lamont> right.
[17:35] <lamont> proppy: so.  given that we're unchanged from upstream... what did nfs-utils do upstream?
[17:36] <lamont> note that nfs-common is part of the nfs-utils source package...
[17:36] <lamont> and hence the upstream note
[17:38] <proppy> lamont: this indication is only relevent for ubuntu or debian I guess
[17:38] <proppy> lamont: the package layout may be completly different on another plateform distribution
[17:38] <lamont> right.  so it's a debian-and-derivatives bug
[17:39] <proppy> lamont: that's why upstream is referring to the source package I guess
[17:39] <Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: pong
[17:39] <tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, hi and can I pm you?
[17:39] <Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: yeah.
[17:39] <proppy> lamont: so I need to add some if debian around this ?
[17:40] <lamont> proppy: nah - It'll just be one of those diffs that I don't push upstream
[17:40] <proppy> lamont: but it seems wierd to me, since the rules is to be exectued on a debian and derivative plateform
[17:40] <lamont> and no, it won't be fixed in rules.
[17:40] <lamont> it'll be fixed in mount/mount.8
[17:41] <proppy> ok, I started to fix it in rules, cause I've seen similar stuff done already in rules
[17:41] <proppy> 	perl -pi.bak -e 's/agetty/getty/g' debian/util-linux/usr/share/man/man8/getty.8
[17:41] <proppy> lamont:
[17:43] <lamont> ew
[17:43] <proppy> (which is failing when building btw: Can't open debian/util-linux/usr/share/man/man8/getty.8: No such file or directory)
[17:43] <lamont> OTOH, that's renaming a binary - which is an ugly fork of the manpage.  This is one line
[17:43] <proppy> OTOH ?
[17:44] <lamont> on the other hand
[17:44] <norsetto> on the other hand ....
[17:44] <proppy> ok
[17:44] <proppy> ubotu is back !
[17:45] <norsetto> yes! les flood it again!!
[17:45] <proppy> the binary seems renamed after the perl line is called, but I guess this is to be reported in another bug
[17:45] <lamont> so while we're in the area... what provides cifs-mount?
[17:45] <slangasek> "cifs-mount"?
[17:45] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is back ! - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[17:46] <lamont> smbfs
[17:46] <proppy> proppy@nekun:/usr/src/util-linux-2.13$ sudo apt-get install apt-file
[17:46] <lamont> it's the cifs-mount package, providing mount.cifs
[17:46] <lamont> --> smbfs
[17:46] <slangasek> so where is there a cifs-mount package?  or is that the error?
[17:46] <persia> !back is Hurray, I've rejoined the channel.  Too many bugs :)
[17:47] <proppy> lamont: so you advice that I change the mount.8 file directly ?
[17:47] <norsetto> !back
[17:48] <proppy> lamont: letme generate another debdiff
[17:48] <persia> norsetto: It has to go through the moderation queue...
[17:48] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about back - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[17:48] <Hobbsee> !back is <reply>Hurray, I've rejoined the channel.  Too many bugs :)
[17:48] <norsetto> !lame-excuse-for-not-doing-its-work
[17:49] <Hobbsee> !ping
[17:49] <ubotu> I'll remember that, Hobbsee
[17:49] <persia> ubotu is back!
[17:49] <Hobbsee> ah, this one remembers me
[17:49] <Hobbsee> good
[17:49] <ubotu> pong
[17:49] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is back! - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[17:49]  * lamont struggles to remember the syntax for closing LP bugs...
[17:49] <lamont> LP#nnnnnn?  does it need Closes: in front o fit?
[17:49] <norsetto> I like that line, I wonder if thats with Arnold voice
[17:50] <norsetto> lamont (LP: #nnnnn) would do
[17:50] <persia> lamont: No.  The parsing routine just checks for "LP" and "#nnnnn"
[17:51] <lamont> thanks.
[17:51]  * lamont fixes the commit log
[17:51] <lamont> proppy: go ahead and mark the bug pending
[17:51] <lamont> actually, it's fix-committe
[17:51] <lamont> d
[17:51] <norsetto> lamont: fix committed?
[17:52] <proppy> lamont: I can't remember either, I've just copied the previous ubuntu line syntax :)
[17:53] <lamont> proppy: if I was involved, that line's syntax is always suspect.
[17:53] <proppy> lamont: :)
[17:53] <lamont> so it'll be in -9ubuntu1, along with a bunch of other fixes from upstream and such
[17:54] <norsetto> ubotu is back !
[17:54] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is back ! - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[17:54] <norsetto> ubotu: you swine
[17:54] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about you swine - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[17:54] <proppy> lamont: you mean 'In progress' ?
[17:54] <lamont> fix-committed
[17:54] <lamont> it's in the vcs
[17:54] <proppy> oh ok you've already fixed it ?
[17:55] <lamont> yeah
[17:55] <proppy> I don't have to generate another debdiff so :)
[17:56] <lamont> -man page (cifs-mount package must be installed).
[17:56] <lamont> +man page (smbfs package must be installed).
[17:56] <lamont> -man page (nfs-utils package must be installed).
[17:56] <lamont> +man page (nfs-common package must be installed).
[17:56] <lamont> commit 38f43d067202fef44998d7a252d80238878058e9
[17:56] <lamont> Author: LaMont Jones <lamont@debian.org>
[17:56] <lamont> Date:   Fri Oct 19 10:48:14 2007 -0600
[17:56] <lamont>     mount.8:  Make package references be the actual binary package name in the distro.  LP: #154399
[17:56] <lamont>     
[17:56] <lamont>     Signed-off-by: LaMont Jones <lamont@debian.org>
[17:56] <proppy> bug status changed :)
[17:57] <proppy> lamont: where is this source control ?
[17:57]  * lamont pushes the fix to the publicly reachable tree.
[17:58] <lamont> git clone git.debian.org:~lamont/util-linux.git
[17:58] <lamont> I think/
[17:58] <lamont> XS-Vcs-Browser: http://git.debian.org/?p=users/lamont/util-linux.git
[17:58] <lamont> XS-Vcs-Git: git://git.debian.org/~lamont/util-linux.git
[17:58] <lamont> so that would be git clone git://git.debian.org/~lamont/util-linux.git
[17:58] <lamont> ATM it's only present in the stable/v2.13 branch
[17:59] <lamont> sometime soonish I'll merge that onto the ubuntu-stable/v2.13, master, and ubuntu branches
[17:59] <proppy> do you maintain separate branche for each debian derivative ?
[18:00] <lamont> I maintain an ubuntu branch, since it has differences that I can't merge into the build stream.
[18:00] <lamont> postfix, otoh, just has a debian/rules taht does the right thing on both
[18:00] <norsetto> persia: have you got the link to the meeting log? I lost it somehow
[18:01] <norsetto> persia: the mentoring meeting
[18:01] <persia> norsetto: Looking.  I had a local log, but damaged it drafting the summary :)
[18:01] <proppy>  git (GNU Interactive Tools) is a set of interactive text-mode tools,
[18:01] <proppy> oops wront package
[18:01] <norsetto> persia: ok, welcome in the club :-)
[18:01] <lamont> proppy: you want git-core
[18:02] <norsetto> proppy: git-core if I remember correctly
[18:02] <lamont> and then about 20 seconds into it, you'll want the gitk package too
[18:02] <lamont> util-linux has different build-depends on debian and ubuntu, so I can't fully merge the source.
[18:03] <persia> norsetto: Maybe in http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ ?
[18:03] <proppy> lamont: there is similar issue on another package norsetto now :)
[18:03] <proppy> s/now/knows
[18:04] <lamont> it's not entirely bad.  it's a very small diff, and git deals with the merges quite well.  although i am in the market for a hook script that knows how to merge debian/changelog "correctly"
[18:04] <slangasek> so is half the planet :)
[18:04] <norsetto> persia: not very helpful: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071019_1405.html !?
[18:04] <proppy> poker-network upstream for example, shit control for separate distribution, in its source package
[18:04] <proppy> like control.gutsy control.dapper etc
[18:05] <norsetto> proppy: ship?
[18:05] <proppy> the cvs approach seems more pratical
[18:05] <proppy> norsetto: yep :)
[18:05] <lamont> slangasek: let me know when you get that done.
[18:05] <proppy> s/shit/ship
[18:05] <persia> norsetto: That would be it.  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/10/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html might contain useful buffer at the ends.
[18:05] <lamont> slangasek: I mean, now that we released, you don't have anything to do, right? ;-)
[18:05]  * norsetto wonders why this kind of slip happens frequently with poker-network
[18:05] <proppy> norsetto: :)
[18:06] <proppy> norsetto: I'm very happy that it shows up in gutsy universe btw
[18:06] <proppy> norsetto: are you up for a hand or two ?
[18:06] <proppy> norsetto: thanks a lot for having taking care of it
[18:06] <lamont> cvs is pain. avoid it at all costs.
[18:06] <lamont> bzr or git is what you want.
[18:07] <proppy> lamont: I meaned the vcs approach
[18:07] <norsetto> how can anyone be so dumb ... howfixbadubuntu is now known as ubuntushit
[18:07] <persia> VCS FTW
[18:07] <proppy> lamont: instead of having separate file
[18:07] <proppy> lamont: what about mercurial :)
[18:08] <proppy> norsetto: dozo apt-get install python-poker2d
[18:08] <lamont> proppy: it depends... if I can make one source package that can be synced from debian to ubuntu, and deal with it all in debian/rules, that's a win.  even if there are multiple files that are derived from each other.
[18:08] <slangasek> lamont: I'm very careful about the sort of impossible things I agree to do
[18:08] <lamont> proppy: never saw a need for mercurial. then again, I had git. :)
[18:09] <lamont> slangasek: actually, it's a trivial problem...  handle each individual version as a separate entry to merge (99.99% no-conflict), and when file 2 has added version X and file 3 has added version Y, then the merge results in version 2 and 3 added.  you get to choose whether date or version number is the deciding factor on order.
[18:10] <proppy> lamont: yep but then it's up to the ubuntu maintainer to do the correct mv before building
[18:10] <proppy> lamont: and then generate a ubuntu1 version
[18:10] <lamont> proppy: no. you do that in rules, (or since it's control, you do it in version-control)
[18:11] <lamont> alternatively, you make it so that the source package info is identical, and process control.in in rules to do the build correctly.
[18:11] <proppy> lamont: mmm I see
[18:11] <lamont> if the build-deps are diff, then you have issues.  if it's just content of the binary-package entries, then it's _doable_.  albeit ugly as sin
[18:12] <proppy> lamont: while I find the remote vcs is handy, I think it's great to have all you need in the source package
[18:12] <lamont> (stanza 1 of debian/control must be identical to get away with merging it into one package)
[18:12] <lamont> git isn't remote.
[18:12] <proppy> lamont: you mean you put your .git repo in the source package ?
[18:12] <proppy> lamont: sounds great
[18:13] <lamont> on my laptop, off line from the net, I just work away committing as I go.  when I get back online, then I push my changes to $someotherrepository
[18:13] <lamont> I put a pointer to the git repo in the source package.  bloat is evil
[18:13] <proppy> lamont: yep same with mercurial, but I never though about shipping a repository in a package
[18:14] <lamont> and, near as I can tell, multi-layer quilt series (ala debian kernel packaging) is a fine existence proof of people implimenting a VCS in their source package.  such a shame.
[18:14] <lamont> proppy: see debian/control in util-linux (or any of my other packages, for that matter) - those two lines will get you squawkage when they say 'apt-get source', at least on gutsy and later
[18:15] <proppy> lamont: nice
[18:15] <proppy> lamont: I use mercurial for generate patch, then I use a patch system to apply them
[18:16] <lamont> I was using dpatch before I moved everything into git.  patch systems are the suck
[18:16] <proppy> lamont: even when using git you still need to get your extracted patch applied right ?
[18:16] <proppy> lamont: when your change are outside debian/ directory ?
[18:17] <lamont> if you clone that and hop on the ubuntu-stable/v2.13, you're looking at the patched source
[18:17] <proppy> lamont: how do you get them applied
[18:17] <lamont> I get them applied with "git commit". :-)
[18:17] <proppy> lamont: so you build depend upon git ?
[18:18] <lamont> and if I need to significantly modify one of my patches, then I go back to the upstream branch, create a new branch, do the modified patch, and pull that onto my master (debian) branch.
[18:18] <lamont> no
[18:18] <proppy> lamont: or is you source package is the already patched source ?
[18:18] <lamont> I use git,.
[18:18] <lamont> and the source on the branch is already patched.
[18:18] <lamont> and git is my patch management software.
[18:19] <lamont> because git actually does merges in a sane way.  iz life changing
[18:19] <proppy> so you have a diff.gz that do have change outside of debian directory
[18:19] <lamont> whole lots of changes
[18:19] <proppy> but that's fine as long as you've got the git repo linked
[18:20] <proppy> and you can easily extract patch one by one
[18:20] <lamont> zgrep ^+++ /usr/local/src/Packages/util-linux/util-linux_2.13-8.diff.gz | grep -v debian/ | wc
[18:20] <lamont>      83     166    3082
[18:20] <lamont> git-format-patch and give it the start and end.
[18:20] <lamont> if a patch needs to be modified, and I can be bothered, then I get to do the "new branch, fix patch, merge" trick
[18:21] <lamont> where "fix patch" either means branching from somewhere without the patch, or doing an initial commit that reverses the patch, so that the next commit is the patch-in-toto.
[18:21] <lamont> en toto?
[18:22] <proppy> how do you rembember which revision where involve in which patch ?
[18:22] <lamont> gitk
[18:22] <proppy> lamont: do you manage to keep a patch / a changeset 1 to 1 association ?
[18:22] <lamont> since git is just a directory tree of patchsets
[18:22] <lamont> generally the patches are a complete fix
[18:23] <proppy> there may be more than one patchsets involved in one debian revision
[18:23] <lamont> sometimes it's 'all the patches from this branch'
[18:23] <lamont> exactly
[18:23] <lamont> and yes, that's completely inobvious from diff.gz
[18:23] <lamont> "see the git repository"
[18:23] <proppy> I see
[18:24] <proppy> do you find it bloatty to ship the git repository within the diff.gz ? :)
[18:24] <lamont> well, if one were to uuencode the binary data under .git, I suppose one could deliver .git in the diff.gz
[18:24] <lamont> I deliver a pointer to where one can find the git repository.
[18:24] <lamont> just like linux-source-2.6.22 in ubuntu, for example.
[18:25] <proppy> yep, that's sound a clever approach :)
[18:25] <lamont> it's more one of "see my (published) git repository."  it's not in the source package, because it doesn't belong there
[18:26] <proppy> lamont: thanks a lot for explaining me all that stuff
[18:26] <slangasek> lamont: downside: an apt repo is not sufficient to let folks usefully work on the package
[18:27] <lamont> slangasek: very true.
[18:27] <lamont> well...
[18:27] <lamont> depends on what they're doing.
[18:27] <lamont> developing a new patch? sure is.
[18:27] <slangasek> well, at least - there are limits to how well they can prepare new packages that might be integrated later
[18:27] <lamont> merging a new upstream?  wth aren't you starting with the actual repository where you want to publish the result?
[18:28] <slangasek> lamont: say an NMU that needs to add multiple patches
[18:28] <lamont> when I fetch the source apt (or dpkg-soruce...) tells me that I probably want to go grab the current version from VCS, and I'd be a fool not to do that.
[18:28] <proppy> slangasek: they can clone the git repository and work on their own patchset ?
[18:29] <slangasek> proppy: sure they can; that doesn't invalidate my point
[18:29] <lamont> worst case, if I know what VCS they're using, I can at least do an initial import of that into $VCS on my box, and present them with a mergable branch when I'm done
[18:29] <slangasek> lamont: hmm, under what circumstances does dpkg-source tell you about VCS availability?
[18:30] <lamont> slangasek: where you run into trouble is if you're (1) unwilling to use $VCS and can't convert upstream to your favorite, or (2) managed to get offline without it
[18:30] <lamont> slangasek: on gutsy, say apt-get source util-linux
[18:30] <lamont> and read the output
[18:30] <slangasek> proppy: I'm not saying this point is such a glaring bug that folks shouldn't do what lamont does, I'm just pointing out a limitation
[18:30] <slangasek> lamont: huh, ok
[18:31] <lamont> Reading state information... Done
[18:31] <lamont> NOTICE: 'util-linux' packaging is maintained in the 'Git' version control system at:
[18:31] <lamont> git://git.debian.org/~lamont/util-linux.git
[18:31] <lamont> Need to get 3968kB of source archives.
[18:31] <lamont> dunno if sid has that or not
[18:31] <proppy> slangasek: I see sorry for missunderstanding
[18:31] <lamont> slangasek: I discovered it when I fetched source from gutsy to do a bug fix, and it bitched at me.
[18:32] <lamont> so then I added it to all my sources.
[18:32] <proppy> lamont: that would be nice if apt-get source fetched it
[18:32] <lamont> as part of finalizing the migration to git
[18:32] <lamont> proppy: apt-get wasn't told to fetch it.  it's entirely possible that you want _THIS_ version of the source.
[18:32] <lamont> probable, even
[18:33] <slangasek> proppy: there's also the ETOOMANYVCS problem, where there are at least 4 VCSes actively used in this fashion and very few developers are going to have the time to gain fluency in all of them
[18:33] <proppy> lamont: if there were a link between the package number+revision and the git revision he would be able to do it
[18:34] <lamont> slangasek: yeah.  my git migration was from cvs, baz, and bzr
[18:34] <proppy> slangasek: I bet if you know one you can use them all
[18:34] <lamont> slangasek: there's a diff between fluency and "tolerable literacy"
[18:34] <slangasek> lamont: which makes it convenient for you and for developers who work on a strict subset of your packages, doesn't help people who are concerned about contributing across the spectrum :)
[18:35] <lamont> proppy: there's a learning curve on each of them.
[18:35] <slangasek> lamont: I confess to have not bothered learning any of the distributed VCSes until starting work for Canonical
[18:35] <lamont> slangasek: canonical is what caused me to have packages in baz and bzr
[18:35] <lamont> git was from working on kernel stuff
[18:36] <proppy> lamont: I used mercurial for a bit, and bzr is not that different
[18:36] <lamont> my current reaction to an svn tree is to use git-svn import and be done with it.
[18:36] <lamont> and my reaction to cvs is to ask for ,v files and convert them.
[18:37] <slangasek> convert them how?
[18:37] <lamont> parsecvs package.  keithp is a god
[18:38] <proppy> keithp like in mesa ?
[18:38] <slangasek> haha, I'll have to call him that next time I see him
[18:38] <lamont> the problem with cvs is that it doesn't manage patchsets: it manages a set of files which have changes which are probably linked, and good luck with that
[18:38] <proppy> lamont: same with svn
[18:38] <slangasek> I can't wait to see what kind of face he makes at being labelled in terms of mesa
[18:39] <lamont> proppy: the X god, who is a git proponent
[18:39] <lamont> hehe
[18:39] <lamont> proppy: ISTR svn manages patchesets
[18:39] <proppy> ISTR ?
[18:39] <slangasek> yes, svn records revisions atomically on a repo-wide basis
[18:40] <slangasek> so, "patchset"
[18:40] <proppy> lamont: svn looks like more a filesystem that a changeset manager to be, but I may be wrong
[18:40] <lamont> proppy: I seem to recall
[18:40] <slangasek> but it's not distributed, and people really hate the branch/tag handling
[18:40] <lamont> svn is designed to be "cvs done right" which means they made many of the same stupid decisions that cvs did, because they're using that model.
[18:40] <lamont> slangasek: and merging is still a multi-hour ordeal
[18:41] <slangasek> depends on what you're merging, but yes, it's much more manual
[18:41] <proppy> slangasek: yep many people seems to arg it don't tag a branch with the origin branchpoint
[18:41] <lamont> git and bzr (and ISTR mercurial) keep track of patchsets directly, and therefore can merge in a more sane manner that causes less pain.
[18:42] <lamont> slangasek: A and B both take changes from C onto their branch.  Now merge A and B back onto the trunk.  make sure that C's changes were pervasive.  have a nice week.
[18:42] <lamont> s/take changes from/merge/
[18:42] <lamont> the svn solution is to make sure that your branch is merged first.
[18:43] <norsetto> anyone willing to test rpmstrap from the gutsy-proposed archive? proppy?
[18:44] <proppy> norsetto: what is rpmstrap ?
[18:45] <proppy> slangasek: but there is addon out, that help svn branch management IIRC
[18:45] <norsetto> proppy: its a script to create a bootstrap for non-debian distros (ala debootstrap)
[18:45] <proppy> hu sounds nice
[18:46] <norsetto> proppy: fedora, centos, etc. all those rpm based
[18:46] <proppy> norsetto: my connection is very laggy atm, and I'll have to go in 15min, so I might not be the best candidate right now
[18:46] <proppy> norsetto: but np tomorrow
[18:47] <proppy> lamont: slangasek: thanks for the chat
[18:47] <norsetto> proppy: sure, if you could it would be nice, you have to add gutsy-proposed to sources.list and leave feedback to bug 64032
[18:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 64032 in rpmstrap "rpmstrap using /bin/sh when it should use /bin/bash" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64032
[18:47] <lamont> slangasek: we should have these lively discussions more often
[18:49] <norsetto> proppy: its a good chance for you to check out about SRU ;-)
[18:49] <slangasek> lamont: not too much more often, lest I find myself never getting work done :)
[18:49] <lamont> heh
[18:49] <geser> hmm, doesn't LP list uploads to -proposed in the publishing history anymore?
[18:53] <norsetto> geser: well, the acceptance email was sent to gutsy-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
[18:55] <blueyed> If a bug is fixed in Debian unstable already and there are no Ubuntu changes, it will get fixed by syncing, correct?
[18:55] <geser> yes
[18:56] <blueyed> geser: And any Ubuntu changes to gutsy-updates would get ignored correctly, yes?
[18:56] <geser> packages will be automatically synced when they don't have a ubuntu or build suffix until DebianImportFreeze
[18:57] <geser> yes, as hardy starts as a copy of gutsy
[19:21] <ScottK> norsetto_limbo: If you could put a test procedure (do the following steps to see if the bug is fixed) in your rpmstrap SRU, that's be very helpful in getting it tested.
[19:22] <eolo999> norsetto_limbo: hi, could you address me to python team related materials?
[19:36] <lamont> slangasek: (after some thought during lunch...) given the variety of different patch (dpatch, quilt, etc) and build (dbs, cdbs, etc)  systems in debian packages, I'm not particularly pesuaded by arguments about how it's bad to make someone actually become semi-literate in an actual VCS.
[19:36]  * lamont has to take a walk across site to reboot a machine and hook up the serial console.
[19:36] <lamont> sigh
[19:36] <lamont> bbiab
[19:56] <norsetto> ScottK: I just thought they could try what the reporter tested in comment #4, which I did myself in comment #17
[19:56] <ScottK> norsetto: It's a lot of comments in the history.
[19:56] <norsetto> eolo999: still around?
[19:56] <ScottK> Maybe a link to the relevant comment at the end.
[19:57] <eolo999> norsetto: yes, but the show is beginning...
[19:57] <slangasek> lamont: yes, but that's why I support eliminating dbs and dpatch >:)
[19:57] <norsetto> eolo999: ah, on the stage tonight ... (or near it anyhow)
[19:57] <lamont> slangasek: agreed
[19:58] <lamont> whereas I'm in favor of eliminating quilt as well. :-)
[19:58] <slangasek> pff
[19:58] <norsetto> eolo999: you mean the debian python policy?
[19:59] <eolo999> norsetto: all the stuff you suggest me to read...
[19:59] <norsetto> eolo999: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
[19:59] <norsetto> eolo999: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
[19:59] <norsetto> eolo999: I assume you know the basics of packaging already? Otherwise let me know, let me know if you need help too
[20:00] <eolo999> norsetto: don't remember now but i already know where ti find materials.
[20:01] <eolo999> norsetto: thx anyway
[20:01] <norsetto> eolo999: np, come back here when you have some time to spare
[20:01] <eolo999> think i'll be back later, when i get home.
[20:02] <norsetto> eolo999: and as we say, in the whale's arse ......
[20:02] <eolo999> hope it doesn't shit
[20:02] <norsetto> heheh
[20:02] <norsetto> funny people the italians .....
[20:03] <eolo999> ok bye
[20:06] <norsetto> oh $deity, its red hot in #ubuntu-bugs
[20:07] <lamont> norsetto: is that the new new policy or the old new policy?
[20:07]  * lamont decides to quit trolling
[20:07] <norsetto> lamont: he, you tell me, you guys change it more often than a woman his dress
[20:08] <norsetto> well, make it her dress
[20:08] <lamont> it was funnier as 'his'. :-)
[20:08] <norsetto> lamont: why are you always right ....
[20:09] <lamont> norsetto: "because I say so." :-)
[20:09] <lamont> IOW, by definition.
[20:19] <propeat> slangasek: what is dbs ?
[20:20] <propeat> =cdbs ?
[20:20] <azeem> no
[20:20] <azeem> it's a mix of dpatch and tarball-in-source
[20:20] <azeem> predates most of the other systems, and is pretty obsolete today
[20:21] <propeat> let's google/check tarball-in-source, as I don't know what it is as well
[20:21] <bddebian> tarball in source is the suXX0r
[20:22] <propeat> bddebian: so I don't really need to know what it is ? (btw google doesn't help me)
[20:26] <bddebian> proppy: Well a few packages do still use it (stk for example) but I hate it
[20:27] <norsetto> yeah, I stumbled in one too, and found a nice bug in cdbs-edit-patch too
[20:28] <azeem> proppy: coreutils
[20:28] <norsetto> sylpheed was the package
[20:28] <azeem> (at least in Debian)
[20:31] <proppy> waaaaa
[20:32]  * proppy it's my first time seeing a tarball-in-source
[20:32] <proppy> may I ask "why?"
[20:33] <proppy> Is this a way to 'assert' by structure, that there is no change outside debian/ directory ?
[20:40] <slangasek> it does a couple of things. it lets you bundle multiple upstream tarballs in a single source package; it confines all changes to the debian directory, yes; it provides a means of ensuring any local edits can be rolled into a patch after the fact; and it lets you have a ./debian/rules clean target of "rm -rf $srcdir".
[20:40] <slangasek> none of these are persuasive to me. :)
[20:41] <norsetto> asisak: ping
[20:44] <lamont> slangasek: the tarball-in-source-package is generally done so that you don't get the bug filed that your clean target leaves the source in a different state than when it was unpacked.
[20:44] <slangasek> yes
[20:44] <proppy> slangasek: thanks for clearing that up
[20:45] <azeem> you can get around most of that by using a seperate build-dir, usually
[20:45] <azeem> well, ok
[20:45] <azeem> ...unless you need to patch the upstream build system or its broken
[20:45] <lamont> azeem: or better yet: don't modify the sources in the unpacked source. :0)
[20:46] <slangasek> lamont: if your upstream ships .mo files in the tarball, your clean target is going to involve rm -f something
[20:46] <lamont> right
[20:47] <lamont> heh.  so far, it's just been vim-runtime vs whatever for dist-upgrade-pain
[20:49] <lamont> mdadm: /dev/sda5 does not appear to be an md device
[20:49] <lamont> hrm.
[20:51] <ScottK> lamont: Not certain, but IIRC I got that on a server upgrade I did around beta time and it wasn't nearly as ominous as it sounds.
[20:52] <lamont> ScottK: yeah - no arrays on the machine at alll
[20:52] <lamont> this is a dapper/hppa -> gutsy/hppa upgrade
[20:53] <ScottK> Ah.  Mind the tty bug then (assuming it applies to hppa).
[20:53] <lamont> right
[20:54] <ScottK> I did a dapper/i386 -> gutsy/i386 and got there (modulo no working ttys), but had to remove ubuntu-minimal in the process.
[20:55] <lamont> wow.
[20:55] <lamont> apt-get install udev -> does nothing
[20:55] <lamont> apt-get --purge install udev libdevmapper1.02- libdevmapper1.01- on the other hand...
[20:56] <lamont> ScottK: it's always especially fun when you get to type: Yes, do as I say!
[20:56] <lamont> for values of "fun" that are very scary
[20:57] <ScottK> Yep.
[20:57] <ScottK> I did mine because I had a new hard drive and a Dapper install CD was all I had handy.  I said to myself, what the heck.  It'll be a learning experience.
[21:00] <lamont> interesting... I have a /etc/event.d/ttyS0
[21:02] <ScottK> That puts you well ahead of i386 then.
[21:20] <nxvl> dget *.dsc is like apt-get source, did't it?
[21:21] <ScottK> nxvl: dget -x yes.
[21:21] <nxvl> -x
[21:22] <nxvl> thnx
[21:22] <nxvl> i was forgeting it
[21:25] <sistpoty> hi folks
[21:26] <sistpoty> congrats to the release!
[21:32] <ajmitch> hi sistpoty
[21:32] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[21:32] <nxvl> when making " dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot" im getting "gpg: skipped "Nicolas Valcárcel <nvalcarcel@gmail.com>": secret key not available"
[21:33] <nxvl> but it hasn't ask me for mi passphrase
[21:33] <ajmitch> because that may not be an exact match with your gpg key
[21:33] <ajmitch> just pass the keyid to dpkg-buildpackage, eg -k5921b5d8
[21:33] <ajmitch> using your own one, of course :)
[21:34] <imbrandon> moins all
[21:34] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon
[21:34] <sistpoty> hi imbrandon
[21:34] <nxvl> ajmitch: thnx
[21:34] <nxvl> ajmitch: and it getting mi name from where, the changelog?
[21:35] <ajmitch> yes
[21:35] <nxvl> thnx
[21:35] <ajmitch> not sure if the accented characters are allowed there
[21:35] <sistpoty> ajmitch: do you know the details what it checks where? because I always need to use debsign -k0x8d7fca91, though I believe I tried telling it to use that key by various means (and I'm no perl hero, so I gave up looking at the code *g*)
[21:35] <ajmitch> sistpoty: nope :)
[21:35] <sistpoty> damn *g*
[21:36] <nxvl> ok, fixed
[21:36] <nxvl> ajmitch: thnx
[21:37] <siretart> huh? hardy already open?
[21:37] <imbrandon> it is ?
[21:37]  * siretart just got a build failiure notification from lp
[21:37] <ajmitch> sure, why wouldn't it be? :)
[21:37] <imbrandon> no toolchain ?
[21:38] <siretart> ah, 'pre-release freeze)
[21:38] <ajmitch> imbrandon: look at the list of latest uploads on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy
[21:38] <siretart> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wpasupplicant/0.6.0+0.5.8-0ubuntu1/+build/412277
[21:38] <siretart> wow. intresting failiure :)
[21:38] <ajmitch> though I'm not sure why things like wpasupplicant are being built
[21:39] <imbrandon> wtf is IceTea java ?
[21:39] <imbrandon> heh
[21:39] <ajmitch> latest sun java code
[21:39] <ajmitch> except with some small modifications that mean that it must be renamed
[21:39] <sistpoty> hi siretart
[21:40] <imbrandon> ahh
[21:40] <siretart> huhu sistpoty
[21:40] <sistpoty> weekend, yay! :)
[21:40] <ajmitch> hehe
[21:40] <ajmitch> long weekend, yay!
[21:40]  * ajmitch has monday off
[21:40] <siretart> finally
[21:40] <siretart> weekend
[21:41] <ajmitch> heh
[21:41] <ajmitch> long week?
[21:41] <sistpoty> short one for me, got to go to visit a family party of my gf from tomorrow, 10am to somewhen late sunday I guess *g*
[21:41] <ScottK> siretart: I'm pretty sure they're still playing with tool chain.
[21:41] <sistpoty> anyone on hardy yet?
[21:42] <sistpoty> come on, now would be the perfect time to show off (as I guess not much can be broken yet) and then not upgrade for a month or so *g*
[21:42] <jussio1> sistpoty: are you?
[21:43] <sistpoty> jussio1: not yet... but I guess I'll start a dist-upgrade now (and first see what gets drawn in)
[21:43] <jussio1> lol. let us know. :)
[21:44] <sistpoty> always remember, ask on irc first in the first (few?) month before upgrading from a known good state *g*
[21:47]  * siretart is just freeing some space for a new virtualbox instance
[21:47]  * ajmitch upgrades
[21:47] <siretart> :)
[21:47] <sistpoty> haha
[21:47]  * sistpoty still downloads newest gutsy *indices*... damn bandwith
[21:49] <sistpoty> breezy-changes + rules deleted, hooray :)
[21:49] <imbrandon> heh
[21:49] <imbrandon> yea i need to go through all my mail and mailing subscriptions
[21:50]  * ajmitch should probably cut out at least half of them
[21:51] <sistpoty> why are filter rules never up to date? *g*
[21:54] <sistpoty> 15,3kB/s... ubuntu sucks (well, I guess rather my isp, which reduced my bandwith and I still didn't phone the company yet)
[21:57] <siretart> sistpoty: nefkom?
[21:57] <sistpoty> siretart: yep... dsl went out, and the technician made it temporarily work again by reducing my bandwith. better than nothing though :)
[21:59] <siretart> sistpoty: try setting the interface to the modem from 100mbit to 10mbit
[22:01] <sistpoty> siretart: how could this help? it was actually the dsl line that was down (dsl light flashing) in the first place?
[22:02] <siretart> sistpoty: nefkom dsl modems are known to die like flies. they have a common problem that some capacitor in the modem breaks
[22:02] <sistpoty> siretart: ah ok, will try that, thanks
[22:02] <siretart> sistpoty: in a way that it fails to keep the connection at 100mbit, but manages to keep at 10mbit
[22:03] <siretart> I know of at least 2 other persons (beside me) who were hit by excatly this problem. however, nefkom is replacing the modems for free
[22:04] <sistpoty> cool
[22:20] <sistpoty> hm.. "ifconfig vlan1 media type 10BaseT" didn't seem to have an effect... neither in dmesg nor on my bandwith *g*
[22:21] <sistpoty> <- stupid when it comes to setting an interface to 10Mbit *g*
[22:33] <nixternal> with the MC poll, you can only vote for one? ie. only one is going to become a MC member?
[22:34] <sistpoty> nixternal: no, there are two slots and two candidates. So the poll is to accept or reject a proposed member
[22:34] <nixternal> I like both damnit! going to have to spin the bottle...oh wait, wrong game, eenie meenie miney moe, catch a MOTU by his code, if he hollers let him go, eenie meenie miney moe!
[22:34] <nixternal> OK, great
[22:35] <sistpoty> maybe I should have made this more clear (so I'm not too sure when a candidate is accepted or rejected, maybe > or < 50%)
[22:36] <sistpoty> s/so/though/
[22:42] <sistpoty> asac: mind to give some feedback to gnomefreak's motu application on the motu council list?
[22:44] <ajmitch> sistpoty: it's a confirmation, so I imagine that more yes votes than no
[22:44] <sistpoty> ajmitch: yes, that's what I *assume* as well ;)
[22:53] <ian_brasil> ola ...i am getting an error deb-data-member-wrongly-compressed using debuild ...any idea what this might be...
[22:53] <ian_brasil> using and building for gutsy
[22:54] <slangasek> ian_brasil: do you mean an error when running lintian, perhaps?
[22:54] <ian_brasil> sorry...yes that is what i meant
[22:55] <slangasek> ok
[22:55] <slangasek> well, "lintian -I" will give you information about what the error means
[22:55] <slangasek> but at a guess, the source of the error is that your .deb is built using bz2 compression, and the version of lintian you're using to check doesn't recognize that as valid?
[22:56] <ian_brasil> it is using bz2 ...you are correct
[22:56] <slangasek> right. so that's not truly an error in your package, it's a bug in this version of lintian (or it's the wrong version of lintian) for not knowing that bz2 is acceptable
[22:58] <sistpoty> ian_brasil: where do you get see the error? maybe on revu?
[23:00] <ian_brasil> no just running debuild when it calls lintian...it seems intermittent as I have made it go away by running dh_make in a new directory...but now it has returned
[23:01] <ian_brasil> i mean creating the deb again by copying the orig.tar.gz into a new directory and running dh_make
[23:02] <sistpoty> ian_brasil: ah, ok, then what slangasek wrote ;)
[23:02] <ian_brasil> I could submit the bug but want to make sure it is not something I am doing first...the deb creates and installs fine
[23:04] <sistpoty> ian_brasil: what version are you running... gutsy and checking a source package from gutsy?
[23:04] <sistpoty> ian_brasil: if so, it's a bug in lintian, but I guess one that won't get a too high priority ;)
[23:07] <ian_brasil> i am on gutsy and it is a source package I created that i want to put in my PPA
[23:08] <slangasek> fwiw, this is a difference in the format of binary .debs accepted by Debian vs. Ubuntu, and there's no mention in the Ubuntu lintian changelog of an override for this, so that explains the presence of the bug
[23:11] <sistpoty> geser: want to give some feedback to fernando's application on the mc-list? (and since you're nominated for MC, maybe you have some questions to ask as well?)
[23:11] <sistpoty> (just trying to not leave too much backlog once the polls are over *g*
[23:13]  * ian_brasil will use linda instead ;)
[23:14] <sistpoty> ian_brasil: then you can of course always blame StevenK *g*
[23:15] <imbrandon> lol
[23:15] <geser> bah, LP timeouts on ~lpnick/+packages :(
[23:15] <ian_brasil> it is linda clean...looks like its a bug then
[23:15] <sistpoty> geser: I guess you're using edge? try the stable version ;)
[23:15] <imbrandon> man i finaly got Ubuntu to install on one of my xboxes, time to convert the cluster now, sounds like a good "weekend waiting for hardy to open" project
[23:16] <sistpoty> geser: (and bug reported already, as well as that stable shows ppa uploads without differentation as well)
[23:17] <imbrandon> int main() {
[23:17] <imbrandon> execlp( "login", "login", "-f", "brandon", 0);
[23:17] <imbrandon> }
[23:17] <imbrandon> err
[23:20] <asac> sistpoty: afaik gnomefreaks mail was not ment as an application. He wanted to get info how to get the motu process started. I sent him to the motu reception for now.
[23:20] <sistpoty> asac: ok, then I misread it (to mean both). thanks!
[23:26] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[23:26] <sistpoty> hi TheMuso
[23:26] <TheMuso> Hey sistpoty.
[23:26] <TheMuso>  Looking forward to UDS?
[23:27] <sistpoty> TheMuso: of course!
[23:27] <imbrandon> heya TheMuso
[23:27] <TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
[23:33] <ian_brasil> i reported this lintian error then as bug #154616 on launchpad
[23:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154616 in lintian "A .deb is built using bz2 compression using debuild and the version of lintian with gutsy doesn't recognize that as valid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154616
[23:34] <sistpoty> thanks ian_brasil
[23:34] <ian_brasil> no problem
[23:45] <sistpoty> hi bddebian
[23:45] <eolo999> !sru
[23:45] <ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[23:45] <bddebian> Hi sistpoty