[00:00] it doesn't make sense to nominate it for hardy yet ;-) [00:00] blueyed: probably not. at least i can't see how [00:00] approved for gutsy. [00:01] It's the same as Gutsy, isn't it? Should it rather get re-opened and set to closed for feisty and before? [00:01] kai^sds: see the bug attachments sidebox and "edit" for your attachment. [00:03] kai^sds: but probably you must be member of the Ubuntu Bugsquad team for this. [00:03] blueyed: thanks for the info. i have removed the older patch [00:03] k :) [00:03] Can you remove/edit other attachments as well? [00:04] Launchpad bug 69455 in oprofile "[SRU] for oprofile, edgy-updates: bashism in oprofile's opcontrol script prevents user from setting any events" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69455 [00:04] Sorry, I don't know anything about ping? - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [00:04] kai^sds: why isn't the fix for feisty not in gutsy anymore? [00:05] launchpad offers me the "Delete attachment" button for patches other than my own. i do not want to try it out now though [00:05] * blueyed is happy that this has not been abused yet [00:05] blueyed: it was dropped quite some time ago [00:05] blueyed: good question. i don't know. [00:05] crimsun: during gutsy development? [00:06] blueyed: correct, during a merge [00:08] Looks ok. Though it's "strange" to fix bashisms with using bash.. ;) [00:09] blueyed: that's because it's not a fix; it's a hackaround [00:09] for -proposed, the change must be minimal and easily understood [00:10] /bin/sh -> /bin/bash satisfies both requirements [00:10] Sure. [00:13] kai^sds: should be versioned 0.9.3-1ubuntu1.1, and the distribution should be gutsy-proposed [00:17] so this line for example [00:17] +oprofile (0.9.3-1ubuntu2) gutsy; urgency=low [00:17] should be changed to [00:17] +oprofile (0.9.3-1ubuntu1.1) gutsy-proposed; urgency=low [00:17] ? [00:17] correct [00:18] (back in a bit.) [00:24] ok. done === RoninX341 is now known as etank [01:04] Heya gang [01:05] hi. [01:06] Hello nenolod [01:17] Cheers bddebian! [01:17] Hello Blue [01:17] Err blueyed [01:22] whats the best way to start contributing to ubuntu without having programming knowledge? [01:22] documentation is a good one [01:23] writing documentation for what? [01:23] bmk789, how to use Ubuntu, see #ubuntu-doc [02:05] Where has pkern disappeared to? [02:09] So anyone tried installing with the encrypted partitions option yet? [02:12] Bed most likely [02:12] tonyyarusso: How does one find that option? [02:12] * TheMuso is considering it for his trip to UDS. [02:20] tonyyarusso: Yup. [02:20] Where do you get the encrypted partitions option? [02:20] TheMuso: The alternate CD. [02:21] Yeah I guessed, but do you have to use expert install? [02:21] No. [02:21] oh [02:21] I'll have to dig a bit deeper then. [02:21] When you (or, at least, when *I* did) get to the partitioning stage, you have the option "use as encrypted physical device" for any given partition. [02:22] does the encryption take place on suspend or hibernate? [02:22] what encryption [02:22] jml: hibernate won't work if you use a random key for swap. [02:23] jml: the encryption takes place on every write to disk [02:23] jml: However, if you do what I did and use the encrypted partiton as an LVM PV, and build swap, /, /home on that, then it just works. [02:31] * TheMuso podners why he can't rsync an iso from his ISP mirror... [02:42] TheMuso: Because Internode don't love you [02:59] TheMuso: it's on the alternate CD [02:59] RAOF: any issues with it? [03:00] RAOF: any performance hit noticable? [03:01] RAOF: fix my fonts [03:05] StevenK: heh. [03:06] I thought it was more appropriate to blame telstra for all your woes? [03:06] No, internode can do that for me. :p [03:06] We pay them enough after all [03:07] heh [03:12] Geez, git is very noisy [03:13] bzr is love by comparison [03:14] ah, telstra. [03:14] i have a fairly funny email from them [03:25] congrats to the MOTU team on the Gutsy release, and thanks for all your hard work! [03:29] Thanks mdomsch :-) === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie [04:03] tonyyarusso: I haven't noticed one. But my laptop is not an ideal candidate: slow HD, fast dual-core processor. [04:04] Or rather, my laptop is a good candidate for seeing no performance hit. [04:13] Sheesh is everyone asleep after release parties? :-) === greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco [04:15] yes [04:16] RAOF: gotcha [04:16] Who's gonna help my dumb arse fix gnome-breakout :'-( [04:16] bddebian: Whats the problem with it [04:17] TheMuso: I changed the path to install to /usr/share/games as it should instead of /usr/share. Now on startup it's looking for the level files in the wrong dir [04:17] It's like LEVELDIR is ignoring $(datadir) [04:18] Or I should say it's using the default instead of what I set on configure [04:18] How did you tell it to use /usr/share/games? [04:18] --datadir=\$${prefix}/usr/share/games [04:18] bddebian: Is this a broken package in gutsy that you are trying to fix? [04:18] TheMuso: No, new upsteam for Debian for Hardy :-) [04:18] And what is prefix set to? [04:19] --prefix=/usr [04:19] Well, it looks to me like datadir is being set to /usr/usr/share/games [04:19] Sorry --datadir=\$${prefix}/share/games [04:19] That was a typo :) [04:19] right thats better. [04:19] Have you tried running the uild process by hand to see what happens? [04:19] build [04:20] Yes [04:21] ok. [04:21] Could be autoconf breakage. [04:21] somewhere. [04:22] or automake [04:24] It looks like it's doing the right thing. Maybe it's a code issue.. http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/gnome-breakout/build.log [04:27] * TheMuso wonders whether the --locale config flag is correct.. [04:28] I see what you mean however. [04:28] I had to autoreconf to even get the --locale so I could put those files in /usr/share/locale and not /usr/share/games/locale [04:28] right [04:29] then I had to munge po/Makefile.in.in [04:29] oh joy [04:29] Sounds like they don't use gnome-common for the autogen stuff then. [04:30] even though the package is gnome-breakout [04:30] is there a backporting guide anywhere? === jmg_ is now known as jmg [04:34] TheMuso: It was a gnome 1 app but seems to build/work fine on 2 [04:35] Oh. [04:35] * TheMuso subscribes to hardy changes. [04:35] heh [04:35] is it open? [04:35] Well, its frozen currently, but meh. [04:36] THe list exists, and my guess is from now till next thursday, the toolchain will be sorted. [04:36] As on the schedule draft at least, next thursday is when the toolchain nees to be done. [04:37] good idea [04:37] * ajmitch subscribes [04:39] * TheMuso now needs to make extra space for his LVM partitions, so he can create a hardy sbuild chroot. [04:39] Hey, I thought you were helping me? :) [04:39] sigh, people doing unnecessary & incorrect wiki changes [04:39] I dunno where the problem is. [04:39] ajmitch: ? [04:40] someone changing 'buildds' on the UbuntuDevelopment page to 'builds' [04:40] bddebian: Where does one get the package from, as in the upstream source? [04:40] since they must have thought it was a typo [04:40] heh [04:41] Maybe its worth not abreviating it then. [04:41] abreeviating [04:42] no, it should be clarified [04:43] I think it's this in flags.c: #define DEFAULT_LEVEL_FILES (LEVELDIR "/alcaron.gbl;" LEVELDIR "/mdutour.gbl;" L [04:43] EVELDIR "/mmack.gbl") [04:43] TheMuso: http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/gnome-breakout/ [04:43] Just find the evil doer and have them flogged as an example to the rest (about wrong wiki changes). [04:50] bddebian: Ok I'll have a look. [04:50] TheMuso: Thanks man, this thing is killing me. afaict it should work [04:50] And the game works fine and I can select the levels from the preferences menu it's just the defaults levels at startup :-( [04:51] yep [05:00] bddebian: Ok it certainly seems that LEVELDIR sets properly during build as a macro. I'd say it is probably what you said re flags.c and the LEVEL_FILES definition. [05:01] Aye but the question is why :-( [05:01] Indeed. [05:02] Maybe strace it perhaps? [05:04] I don't know that I know strace :-( [05:04] I pretty much suck at debugging stuff [05:05] hm ok [05:06] * bddebian needs a brain [05:09] * TheMuso rebuilds it with debugging symbols. [05:11] * TheMuso wonders if Kano just gets ignored by devs now. [05:12] * ScottK made the mistake of talking to him one. I learned my lesson. [05:13] bddebian: Do you get an error if it can't find the levels? [05:14] Just a pop-up warning [05:14] hmm [05:14] In a dialog box? [05:14] Aye [05:14] Well, I'm going to rebuild again without symbols, but I don't get any warning. [05:15] Really [05:15] Indeed. [05:15] Can you start a new game? [05:16] Yes. [05:16] Hmm, maybe I fixed it ;-P [05:16] I wonder if it's leaving a some type of configuration around [05:17] Not from what I can see. [05:19] Weird, now it works on this install [05:20] bddebian: heh what did you do? :p [05:21] bddebian: Yep, all goo dhere. [05:21] The only thing I can figure is that maybe I was stupid and installed over a previous install or something [05:21] right [05:22] Sorry to waste your time man :( [05:22] No problem. [05:27] hmm, I don't suppose there's a way to fake an IP address? [05:29] ifconfig? [05:29] hmm [05:29] that's not gonna work :/ [05:30] I'd like to change my public facing IP address when I'm behind a cable router [05:31] but well, it's just a desperation plea ;-) [05:31] LaserJock_: Fake how? Sure you can [05:31] well, here's the situation [05:32] * StevenK pulls on his IP hat, listening [05:32] I have hosts.allow set on my machine at how to allow a certain range of IPs [05:32] now I'm at my grandpa's [05:32] and I can't ssh to my box cause I've got a different public IP [05:33] usually I could ssh into a uni machine and do it [05:33] but after the recent compromises it looks like they've blocked us from doing that [05:34] I think I'm probably just gonna do without [05:35] LaserJock_: Right, the simple answer is, yes you can fake an IP - but how do you plan to get traffic back? Your machine is responsible for routing back [05:36] hmm, right [05:36] At which point your machine is not going to know that you're doing naughty things to defeat hosts.allow [05:36] I need to get my grandpa's cable to get a new IP lease ;-) [05:37] How would that help? [05:37] jdong: What's up with sharkattack? Looks like it's dead from here. [05:37] That part is easier - reboot the modem, or drop DCHP [05:37] ScottK: ugh, yeah, I need to walk over and investigate tomorrow... [05:37] OK. [05:39] maybe I should just take this as a sign that I should just have fun on my laptop and not worry about my dissertation for now ;-) [05:39] I picked up a book on Ruby today at Barnes and Noble [05:39] LaserJock_: awesome [05:39] there were gobs of Ruby books [05:39] LaserJock_: IMO it's a really nice language [05:39] in fact [05:40] I think only Java had more books [05:40] other maybe some crap in the MS programming section [05:40] *ahem* [05:40] but there were more Ruby than C/C++, php, python at least [05:40] LaserJock_: well Rails has reached buzzword status [05:40] yeah, totally [05:41] 3/4 of the Ruby books were Ruby on Rails [05:41] bddebian: :p [05:41] LaserJock_, you want to start learning Ruby? [05:41] * macd hasnt ever looked back since he did [05:41] well, I don't know [05:42] I'm not really sure why I should [05:42] other than I know a lot of people who use it [05:42] Learn assembler holmes, be a man ;-P [05:42] Meh, Rails is the only reason I wanted to learn Ruby [05:42] well, I don't think I care about Rails [05:42] maybe I will once I get into it, but right now it's not very interesting to me [05:42] I knew ruby, then dove into rails, and had to relearn ruby [05:43] but imho ruby is a nice lang [05:43] there's a chemoinformatics guy that's into Ruby [05:43] albeit slow. [05:43] I think ruby is a great power-user language [05:43] and he's got lots of ruby info [05:43] now he's into JRuby [05:43] it like gets you Python interactiveness with Perl power... [05:43] macd: ruby seems to hae MUCH more active plans to correct that than Python [05:44] Yeah, Ruby2.0 has YARV, then it shall be much faster [05:44] yeah, I guess that's my question, I know some python, so why would I want to learn Ruby? [05:44] We tested it a bit with a rails app, and saw acorss the board increases, most were double. [05:44] LaserJock_: I find Ruby preferable to Python, now that I know both [05:44] * macd nods [05:45] for compelling reasons, or just "cause it seems nice"? [05:45] sometimes Python's API can force you to write more OOP politically correct code than ruby beautiful compact code [05:45] the ruby block syntax is amazing [05:45] I love it [05:45] Ruby is almost to easy to read [05:45] and jdong hit it on the head with that [05:46] the only "complaint" I have about Ruby is its sigils for global / instance variables are not intuitively obvious [05:46] though straightforward once learned [05:46] well, I'll give it a shot and see how it goes [05:47] I'm not a programmer so sometimes the differences between languages isn't obvious to me [05:47] yeah, Ive had trouble with my globals carrying into classes, but newer ruby versions have more inheritance [05:47] thats more rails then ruby in my case though [05:49] I've gotta also figure out what rails is useful for, I don't really know anything about it [05:50] you can build a webapp pretty fast, other than that I dont see much use [05:50] would it be similar to django? [05:50] LaserJock_: exactly [05:51] LaserJock_: django is a clone of rails for Python [05:51] ok, sweet [05:51] I've been learning django [05:51] a little anyway [05:51] you guys would laugh at the simple stuff I do [05:52] * bddebian wouldn't [05:52] I can barely to "Hello World" ;-) [05:52] * tritium wouldn't [05:52] tritium!!!!! [05:52] s/to/do/ [05:52] LaserJock_: :) [05:52] tritium: I started my dissertation [05:52] LaserJock_: that's excellent!!! [05:52] I might just graduate ;-) [05:53] Yay! [05:53] Wooooo! [05:53] LaserJock_: Do you read http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php [05:53] * RAOF has started a paper that will form a large part of his thesis, does that count? :P [05:53] RAOF: sure :) [05:53] ScottK: yes, I get the RSS feed ;-) [05:54] RAOF: isn't that how we all do it? :) [05:54] ScottK: it's totally my lab :-) [05:54] LaserJock_: Cool. I thought it'd be something you'd like. [05:54] tritium: I hear that some people actually just write a thesis, rather than cobbling together papers ;) [05:54] * ScottK thinks RAOF should read http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php too. [05:55] RAOF: what a hassle! [05:55] RAOF: yeah, my dissertation will be that way [05:55] my advisor tends to take like 3-4 years to get a paper out [05:55] That guy came and talked at UNSW recently, although I missed it. [05:55] LaserJock_: Wow. He'd be totally fired in .au, from what I gather. [05:56] LaserJock_: although, after you graduate, I'd not suggest you come to work here [05:56] Gah, gnight gang [05:56] Good night, bddebian :) [05:56] tritium: yeah? [05:56] cya bddebian [05:56] LaserJock_: yeah, sucks [05:57] tritium: well, I'd most likely end up in Livermore if I was gonna go to a government lab [05:58] LaserJock_: things look even worse there (budget-wise) [05:58] yeah? that's no fun [05:58] last year one of the senior researchers were wondering if I wanted to go over there [05:59] but it's California ... [05:59] nope, and raises this year were crap [05:59] yeah, I'd honestly just like to get a teaching job at a small school in MT [05:59] Nice. [05:59] but the odds of that are like nil [06:00] LaserJock_: you can do it, Nicky! [06:01] actually, at this point I think I'd also like to check out chemisty software development [06:03] LaserJock_: If the state of materials science software is any guide, practically *anything* you do would be gratefully received. [06:04] I'm interested in science education software [06:04] LaserJock_: let's start our own company :) [06:04] heh [06:04] I'm not much of a business person [06:04] Nor am I. [06:04] but I think computing has great potential in science [06:05] most profs give computing lip-service at best [06:05] * tritium is surprised at that [06:06] If the scientific software I've seen wasn't so totally rubbish, I'd imagine that would change. [06:06] I guess my experience in engineering was different [06:06] in my department, we just have a few "computer" labs because that's what you do [06:06] but nobody takes it seriously [06:06] Ah. [06:07] I think the fact that most of the software costs >$1000 / license effects things [06:07] students can't just take it home [06:07] for research tools it's not bad [06:08] but when it comes to education it's just a joke [06:08] I had a grand scheme of writing a pluggable Chemistry education toolkit [06:09] What would be in such a toolkit? [06:09] where you had simulations of equations and chemical proccesses [06:09] as well as actual content [06:09] so a teacher could just kinda drag-n-drop an interactive and visually interesting presentation [06:10] and it'd be open source [06:10] so the content could be created by teachers everywhere [06:10] and "modules" could be easily added [06:10] Actually, I don't think I know what chemists do as far as research, apart from not being able to design catalysts :) [06:10] I have no idea really how to do all that [06:11] RAOF: it entirely depends on the field [06:11] for my research I only need data acquisition and data processing/fitting [06:11] I kinda think of mathematics as primary, so there's obvious stuff for _physicists_ to do, but not so much for chemists :) [06:12] yes [06:12] well, for organic chemists it's quite interesting [06:12] the Blue Obelisk group is a loose organization of open source chemists [06:13] and we look at writing open algorithms and open data [06:13] one of the biggest problems right now [06:13] Algorithms for... reaction moddling? Folding? [06:13] is how do you turn a molecule into a machine readable form [06:13] * RAOF 's background kinda brackets chemistry with maths and biochem ;) [06:13] I can *draw* all kinds of molecules, but my computer knows nothing about them [06:14] Isn't a molecule pretty well described by a network of atoms? [06:14] hehe [06:14] hell no [06:14] very simplistically yes [06:14] not if you want to handle things like 3-way electron sharing [06:15] Plus a whole bunch of complicated quantum physics, but.. [06:15] but things like sterochemistry are very difficult [06:15] Oh, yeah. Of course. [06:15] turning a 2d drawing into a 3d model is very difficult [06:15] do you need to consider folking in the description ? [06:15] lifeless: But that's really just a physical consequence of the atomic network, right? [06:15] there's also huge amount of work to be done in data mining [06:16] RAOF: now I'm out of depth [06:16] RAOF: well, there's the atomic network, but then there's the electronic structure, etc. [06:17] like I need to know that a sp3 hybridized carbon atom is attached to a chromium atom in a III oxidation state, etc. [06:18] Mmm, yeah. [06:19] RAOF: consider http://depth-first.com/articles/2007/10/11/how-would-your-cheminformatics-tool-do-this [06:19] LaserJock_: ultra geeky [06:19] RAOF: or http://depth-first.com/articles/2007/10/17/how-would-your-cheminformatics-tool-do-this [06:19] the question is how to turn that stuff into a machine readable form [06:20] so that say I'm given some form of "ID" I can recreate the molecule *exactly* [06:20] FSVO exact? surel heisenberg is in here [06:21] not exact in terms of bond lengths [06:21] exact in terms of, this is the molecule I told you it was [06:21] so I guess your __eq__ needs clarifying ;) [06:22] is it zwitterionic, are the stereo centers all correct [06:22] etc. [06:22] the problem, I guess, is that chemistry is very creative and graphical [06:22] and often times a lot less mathematical than say physics [06:23] That's only because you don't understand it well enough :P (says the mathematician) [06:23] well [06:23] RAOF: I was thinking that ;) [06:23] in some sense yes [06:23] Also because *we* as mathematicians haven't got good tools for dealing with large-system complexity [06:23] if we were able to do everything quantum mechanically then there would be much less uncertainty [06:24] i heard someone say mathematicians [06:24] but right now you can't really go beyond the hydrogen atom with approximations [06:24] *without [06:24] And that's partially our fault. [06:24] chemistry just has a lot of issues [06:24] you can't model the hydrogen atom precisely either o.O [06:24] sure you can [06:24] * RAOF obviously is spokesman of the entire mathematical community. [06:25] the hydrogen atom is an analytical solution [06:25] Heisenberg uncertainty principle? [06:25] frostburn: What exactly do you mean by juxtaposing "model" with "precisely" :P [06:25] or neutron decay [06:25] bah, who cares about Heisenburg ;-) [06:26] RAOF, a model is an approximation, a "real" model doesn't exist and never will =] [06:26] chemists haven't really gotten on the open source train yet [06:26] Well, yes it does. I contend that hydrogen atoms exist. But yes, a precise model is useless. [06:26] i'd say science in general hasn't either. paying thousands of dollars per year for a journal subscription, no thanks [06:27] any decent molecular drawing app has to handle over 80 different formats for describing a molecule [06:27] frostburn: biology and physics are much more open than chemistry [06:27] agreed, and biology damn you pharmaceutical companies [06:28] well, yeah, but NIH balances that a lot [06:28] so when are we going to port an autoverse to ubuntu... [06:28] the best chemical databases come from NIH [06:28] which is just sad to me [06:28] capitalism at it's best [06:29] s/best/best free or open/ [06:29] heh [06:29] in any case, I'm interested quite a bit in improving the FLOSS and computing situation in chemistry [06:29] im surprised mjg doesnt have more stories about dna sequences [06:30] i spent a semester in a bioinformatics course [06:30] but I'm a physical chemist and not an chemoinformatics guy [06:30] * RAOF boggles at mentors.debian.net. Why have you eaten my specto upload? [06:30] and its a miracle anyone believes we sequenced the human genome [06:30] you can sequence it, but not have any idea how things relate [06:30] in fact, my PhD research barely even requires a computer at all [06:31] frostburn: sure we do [06:31] "the human genome" is an interesting falacy. [06:31] ewww, bio stuff [06:31] its rather surprising how few changes it takes to make a new gene [06:31] pwnguin: Well, one. [06:31] muscular dystrophy only needs a single base pair change [06:31] pwnguin, there's no one "gene" that changes a persons hair, it's an interaction between several genes, and we're barely starting to understand this [06:32] frostburn: im deeply aware of the difficulties [06:32] Because proteins are spectacularyl complicated things, and it's quite easy to break them. [06:33] yeah [06:33] I work on molecules with < 100 atoms [06:33] and that's hard enough [06:33] RAOF: i was just surprised to discover that you can break them so easily with only a few base changes and not wind up with a massively different protein. i imagine selective pressures hide the millions of failed permuations [06:33]