[00:04] <DaSkreech> Froze again
[00:10] <DaSkreech> What did I miss?
[00:11] <Riddell> Day changed to 22 Oct 2007
[00:13] <mhb> Riddell: thanks, mister announcer :o)
[00:13] <DaSkreech> So weekly builds are planned? :)
[00:14] <n8k99> hey!
[00:16] <Riddell> DaSkreech: only if someone goes ahead and does it
[00:20] <nixternal> Riddell: the link to the logs is broke on your blog
[00:21] <Riddell> nixternal: thanks, fixed
[00:21] <DaSkreech> Oh got the logs?
[00:22] <Riddell> yes, thanks DaSkreech
[00:22] <DaSkreech> ok it froze right after I sent it :)
[00:52] <DaSkreech> froze again :)
[00:52] <DaSkreech> Not the same freeze though
[01:17] <DaSkreech> hi Jucato
[01:17] <Jucato> hi
[01:18] <DaSkreech> how are you?
[01:18] <Jucato> just woke up... so really can't say... :)
[01:23] <mhb> oh my, Jucato just woke up, better go to bed pronto
[01:23] <Jucato> hi mhb
[01:24] <mhb> hi Jucato
[01:24] <Jucato> :)
[01:24] <mhb> I really shouldn't be here
[01:24] <Jucato> hm.. ok...
[01:25] <mhb> goodnight and this time for real
[01:25] <Jucato> good night! :)
[02:42] <jjesse> morning Jucato
[02:44] <Jucato> evening jjesse!
[02:46] <nixternal> jjesse: Hardy is all yours for documentation :)
[02:46]  * Jucato waves to nixternal :)
[02:46] <nosrednaekim> heh.
[02:46]  * Jucato waves to Jucato
[02:46] <jjesse> nixternal: yeah way?
[02:46] <jjesse> nixternal: you leaving?
[02:47] <Jucato> noooo!
[02:47] <Jucato> :(
[02:47]  * n8k99 waves
[02:47] <jjesse> did i miss something?
[02:47] <nixternal> heck no I am not leaving
[02:48] <nixternal> Riddell owes me a beer :)
[02:48] <jjesse> ah was just going to say.... you better not leave
[02:49] <nixternal> man, I am way to involved to ever leave....plus I don't ever see myself falling out of love with Linux...nor this community either
[02:49] <nixternal> especially KDE :)
[02:49] <jjesse> i was going to say
[02:49] <nixternal> I told the Gnome Users Group today that I would rather use Windows ME than Gnome...they didn't like that
[02:49] <jjesse> anyways i get to another book this go around, version 3 of the official ubuntu book :)
[02:50]  * nixternal still thinks we need out own book and not 1 little chapter
[02:50] <nixternal> s/out/our
[02:50] <nixternal> I have contemplated writing one, GFDL, and letting the world have it for free
[02:50] <nixternal> maybe if I can find a little time, I will do so one day
[02:50] <Jucato> nixternal: unfortunately, our own book would probably be repeating half of the ubuntu book...
[02:51] <jjesse> nixternal: i've made each chapter longer and longer :)
[02:51] <nixternal> well, I can honestly say, I don't like the "Official" Ubuntu book for 2 reasons, 1) nothing in it for me or anybody else who doesn't use Gnome, and 2) Kubuntu only has one chapter
[02:51] <jjesse> but at least it is more current then any of the other ubuntu books
[02:51] <jjesse> they are all edgy or dapper
[02:51] <jjesse> most dapper
[02:52] <nixternal> I think the "ubuntu hacks" book keeps getting updated as well...it seems to be a pretty popular book here locally
[02:52] <jjesse> be right back putting wife to bed
[02:52] <nixternal> man, the jokes I had for that one
[02:52] <jjesse> :)
[02:52] <jjesse> is tonigth the night to change the clocks?
[02:52] <Jucato> when were those 2 books first released btw?
[02:53] <nixternal> ubuntu hacks was the first I believe
[02:53] <Jucato> last year?
[02:53] <nixternal> and then the Ubuntu Bible
[02:53] <jjesse> ubuntu hacks came out first
[02:53] <jjesse> afk
[02:53] <Jucato> thanks...
[02:53] <nixternal> hehe
[02:53]  * Jucato estimates how long it took for the books to arrive here...
[02:53] <Jucato> in local book stores... about a year :)
[02:54] <nixternal> Jucato: what do you think, you think Kubuntu needs their own book?
[02:54] <nixternal> I think we should do an online version, and maybe setup a Lulu release so people can purchase a print of it if they want
[02:54] <Jucato>  <Jucato> nixternal: unfortunately, our own book would probably be repeating half of the ubuntu book...
[02:54] <nixternal> you think so?
[02:55] <nixternal> oh, I thought jjesse said that
[02:55] <nixternal> damn J's in names
[02:55] <nixternal> :)
[02:55] <Jucato> I mean for the half that doesn't rely so much on KDE-specific info
[02:56] <nixternal> there is only 1 chapter with KDE-specific info though
[02:56] <Jucato> we need a whole section there then :)
[02:56] <Jucato> or a group of chapters
[02:56] <nixternal> Evolution, Gaim, Pidgin, Nautilus, and the rest of the stuff, is way different than the KDE counterparts
[02:56] <nixternal> err, Gaim and Pidgin are the same now :)
[02:56] <Jucato> hehe :)
[02:57] <nixternal> dunno if I did that accidentally of if I wanted to add a / instead of a , in between them
[02:57] <Jucato> maybe both :)
[02:57] <Jucato> how was the party btw?
[02:57] <nixternal> the reason I think we should have our own book..is because people are complaining that the "User's Guide" is gone
[02:57] <DaSkreech> nixternal: I don't like that. I thought ME was labled a hazard to babies by the UN?
[02:58] <nixternal> so was Gnome
[02:58] <nixternal> the party was busy
[02:58] <nixternal> I got online to talk to raphink for like 2 minutes
[02:58] <jjesse> back
[02:58] <nixternal> front
[02:59] <jjesse> wow can't believe the indianss are loosing
[02:59] <Jucato> side
[02:59] <jjesse> left
[03:00] <Jucato> that's a side too though...
[03:00] <Jucato> although I should have said right
[03:00] <jjesse> hrmm i think i'm heading off to city of heros for a bit
[03:01]  * Jucato ncurses US-made MMORPG's that never hit this country...
[03:01] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:01] <Hobbsee> obtain it
[03:02] <n8k99> Jucato you should try http://www.tribalwars.net/1176610.html with the rest of teh ubuntu gang
[03:02] <n8k99> on world 9
[03:02] <Jucato> big question is how? :)
[03:02] <Jucato> oh yeah saw that one. gonna look into it
[03:02] <n8k99> in a browser
[03:02] <Jucato> the "how" was for Hobbsee's suggest :)
[03:03] <DaSkreech> nixternal: No Gaim is very different from pigin
[03:03] <DaSkreech> Pidgin
[03:03] <n8k99> oh
[03:03] <Jucato> although Guild Wars was sold here.. weird...
[03:03] <Hobbsee> Jucato: the usual ways of obtaining things...
[03:03]  * n8k99 whimpers a bit
[03:03] <Jucato> ./me is unusual
[03:03] <Hobbsee> i'm thinking pidgin's actually better than gaim, incidently
[03:03] <Jucato> hm.. I just tried to execute me
[03:03] <Jucato> !openweek
[03:03] <ubotu> openweek is Ubuntu is hosting a series of introductory sessions for people who want to join the Ubuntu community, which all takes place in a week. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek for schedules, logs, and instructions.
[03:03] <Hobbsee> Jucato: TPB, mininova....
[03:04] <Jucato> Hobbsee: lol!
[03:04] <Jucato> *that* way :)
[03:04] <Hobbsee> uh, yse :)
[03:04] <Jucato> but you have to pay (once) to "legally" play it heheh
[03:04] <Jucato> oh well
[03:04] <coreymon77> ???
[03:04] <coreymon77> what did i miss
[03:04]  * Jucato looks for the Hip Hop Abs.
[03:04] <coreymon77> what are we talking about
[03:04] <Hobbsee> Jucato: ah, darn.
[03:04] <Jucato> anything under the sun or moon
[03:04]  * nosrednaekim registers his first branch!
[03:05] <n8k99> chmod +x Jucato
[03:05] <Jucato> ./me
[03:05] <Jucato> still doesn't work :)
[03:05] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i'm of teh opinion that if they arent shipping it in my country, or they're shipping it at an unreasonable price compared to the rest of the world, the legalities matter less :)
[03:05] <nixternal> rm -rf ./me
[03:05] <nixternal> err
[03:05] <Jucato> hahah
[03:05] <nixternal> s/\.\///
[03:05] <nixternal> muhahaha
[03:06] <nixternal> he rm -rf'd himself
[03:06] <n8k99> Hobbsee and her Hobbsean view of economics!
[03:06] <Hobbsee> n8k99: yeah, well.
[03:06] <Jucato> thank goodness for backups! :)
[03:06] <n8k99> that was a reference to Hobbs, in case
[03:06] <Hobbsee> n8k99: some of the games are ~2x as much here as they are in the US, for eg.  and our dollar isnt that low.
[03:07] <n8k99> no but ours is, now
[03:07] <Hobbsee> (and are now buggy, and contain securom and other such crap, in which case obtaining it is the only sane option)
[03:07] <Jucato> lovely... OpenWeek is 11pm to 5am :)
[03:07] <n8k99> not arguing with you
[03:08]  * Hobbsee finds it vaguely amusing that obtained copies run fine, yet properly bought copies have trouble running, due to the copy protection.
[03:08] <nixternal> oh shoot, when does that start?
[03:08] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: I see you are signed up...
[03:08]  * Jucato loves the "subtitle" of tribal wars... "middle age browser game"
[03:08] <nosrednaekim> lol
[03:08] <nixternal> ya, for 2 talks
[03:08] <Jucato> nixternal: Oct 22
[03:08] <nixternal> oh man
[03:08] <nixternal> like now
[03:08] <nosrednaekim> hope I can make some of the better ones...(like yours!)
[03:08] <Jucato> you're still on the 25th and 27th anyway
[03:08] <nixternal> whew, so I have a few days
[03:09] <Jucato> I will have to wake up extra early to catch nixternal's Kubuntu talk
[03:09] <Hobbsee> hm, should start sticking LongPointyStick in there
[03:09] <nixternal> umm, tonio is doing the one on the 23rd I think
[03:09] <nixternal> at least I hope he is
[03:09] <n8k99> on that note Hobbsee, its amusing that obtained copies of movies do not have teh stupid FBI warnings or tons of previews
[03:09] <Hobbsee> n8k99: indeed!
[03:09] <Jucato> nixternal: oh it's still you
[03:09] <Jucato> so that means. 3 talks
[03:09] <nixternal> no way, Tonio is doing one, and I think he is doing the Tuesday talk
[03:10] <Hobbsee> n8k99: also things with hobbsean logic - obtaining the other half of series, where they only show the first half in au - and never show the next lot.  or show it 6 months later.
[03:10] <Jucato> well better confirm w/ him asap.. tuesday is tomorrow :)
[03:10] <Jucato> ok time to "work"
[03:10] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: lol...umm actually its the day after tommorrow..
[03:10] <n8k99> Jucato you work?
[03:10] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[03:11] <nosrednaekim> nah...
[03:11] <Jucato> Mon Oct 22 10:11:26 PHT 2007
[03:11] <Jucato> so no, it's tomorrow :)
[03:11] <Jucato> n8k99: hence "work" :)
[03:11] <Jucato> actually yeah I do have some real, paid work to be done this week
[03:11] <n8k99> ah ha!
[03:11] <nixternal> OK, homework time..I need to clear up some time now
[03:11]  * n8k99 is enlightened
[03:12]  * n8k99 fades
[03:12] <Jucato> work that makes me wish amarok had better UI...
[03:12] <Hobbsee> ooh, paid work.  nice
[03:13] <Jucato> transcribing audio interviews. around $13 per hour of audio
[03:14] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: Anything that gives me TUI for multiIM chat has my vote
[03:14] <Hobbsee> Jucato: $13 in what currency?
[03:14] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: TUI?
[03:14] <Jucato> US (I just converted it)
[03:14] <Jucato> Text user interface?
[03:14] <Hobbsee> ah
[03:14] <Hobbsee> nice!
[03:14] <Jucato> saving up for a Nokia n800 or n810 or an ASUS Eee PC
[03:15] <nosrednaekim> what about an OLPC?
[03:16] <nosrednaekim> too bad you aren't in the US
[03:16] <Jucato> OLPC? compared to Eee PC? O.o
[03:16] <nosrednaekim> Jucato:well,its got some interesting features,like a touchscreen...
[03:17] <Jucato> but but but...
[03:17] <Hobbsee> ah yes, teh OLPC's
[03:17] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: Pidgin has a command line interface
[03:17] <nosrednaekim> finch
[03:17]  * Jucato will still go for the Eee PC.. doesn't want/need a "dumbed down" laptop...
[03:17] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: ah yes.  i just havent figured out how to use it :)
[03:17] <nosrednaekim> good luck getting one... they are selling like hot cakes
[03:18] <Jucato> have they even been released yet?
[03:18] <nosrednaekim> first shipment in Taiwan was gone in 5 hours
[03:18] <Jucato> yeah I have time.. next year.. besides I know that the Eee PC will be available locally. the OLPC wouldn't
[03:19] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: It's called finch
[03:19] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: i know that, but i couldnt figure how to actually log into it
[03:19] <DaSkreech> Hooray I can now crack Windows vista passwords :)
[03:20] <DaSkreech> man ?
[03:20] <Hobbsee> yeah.  glanced at it, figured i'd see teh GUI first
[03:21] <DaSkreech> Jucato: you'll be happy to know the Suse KDE4 cd is quite usable
[03:21] <Jucato> DaSkreech: already installed last week
[03:21] <Jucato> I still have to get around to using it
[03:22] <DaSkreech> Jucato: the ylive cd? didn't it just coe out?
[03:22] <DaSkreech> come
[03:22] <Jucato> ah no. not the live cd
[03:22] <DaSkreech> Yeah it's sweet
[03:22]  * Jucato is suddenly no longer interested to get the live cd :)
[03:25]  * yuriy wants a konqui halloween costume
[03:25] <yuriy> sounds like FOSSCamp is shaping up to be interesing, might just have to go
[03:26] <nosrednaekim> haha
[03:26] <coreymon77> im excited about leopard
[03:26] <coreymon77> friday!!!
[03:26] <coreymon77> anyways
[03:27] <Jucato> leopaaard :)
[03:27] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: back to my non existant email address
[03:27]  * Jucato remembers the novell commercials
[03:27] <Hobbsee> coreymon77: right, yes
[03:27] <yuriy> why do i need to create an account to register? it's not linked to the launchpad account?
[03:28] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: so, how do i fix that
[03:28] <Hobbsee> what's your LP id?
[03:28] <coreymon77> same as all my other ids
[03:28] <coreymon77> coreymon77
[03:30] <Hobbsee> coreymon77: what's your primary email on launchpad set to?
[03:31] <Hobbsee> (it appears to be set to nothing)
[03:32] <Jucato> unless he set it to not be shown?
[03:33] <Hobbsee> point
[03:33] <Hobbsee> i dont understand why people would do that, but OK
[03:33] <Hobbsee> especially when other ways of contact are there
[03:34] <Jucato> privacy?
[03:34]  * Jucato shrugs
[03:34] <Hobbsee> yeah, but if you're uncontactable, what's the point of being involved?
[03:35] <Jucato> :)
[03:37] <Jucato> ugh!!! hate it when people complain/wonder about broken systems when they're the ones who friggin broke it!
[03:37] <n8k99> somepeople like being uncomfortable
[03:38] <coreymon77> Jucato: which i did
[03:38] <Jucato> coreymon77: well not you this time...
[03:38] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: once my ubuntu.com email is set up
[03:38] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: ill set that one to be visible
[03:39] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: id rather all *buntu related things be done through that email, rather than my personal email
[03:39] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: even though it ends up forwarding to the same place
[03:39] <Jucato> um... I don't think you can use the ubuntu.com email in LP
[03:39] <coreymon77> what do you mean
[03:39] <coreymon77> i set that as an email
[03:40] <Jucato> that will break ubuntu.com's link to your real email
[03:40] <coreymon77> it will?
[03:40] <Jucato> afaik, unless it has changed
[03:40] <coreymon77> well then what is the point of having it
[03:40] <Jucato> the @ubuntu.com redirect uses what's your current e-mail in LP
[03:41] <Jucato> the point is you can put up that e-mail address everywhere else
[03:41] <Jucato> you can even put it in your homepage details
[03:41] <Jucato> in LP
[03:41] <coreymon77> Jucato: thats not what i mean
[03:41] <coreymon77> Jucato: my primary email will stay the sam
[03:41] <coreymon77> e
[03:41] <coreymon77> Jucato: ill just add the ubuntu.com email as a secondary and only set that one to be visible
[03:41] <coreymon77> Jucato: wouldnt that work?
[03:42] <Jucato> that I don't know
[03:42] <coreymon77> as long as i keep my primary email set the same
[03:42] <coreymon77> it should work
[03:43] <Hobbsee> n8k99: indeed, but that doesnt help when i want to email all members of the team, etc.
[03:43] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: so, about getting the email set up
[03:43] <Hobbsee> or a whole bunch of people telling them that applying for membership for ~kubuntu-members is not enough - they actually have to come to a meeting
[03:43] <Hobbsee> so they sit there, until i, or someoen else, throws them off.
[03:43] <n8k99> oh right of course
[03:43] <n8k99> oh question just popped into my head
[03:44] <n8k99> if I have been consistently representing Ubuntu at the UN for the last year
[03:44] <Hobbsee> Jucato: you shouldnt use the @ubuntu/@kubuntu address as teh default - but they may have fixed that now.
[03:44] <n8k99> do you think I'd have a good case for membership?
[03:44] <Hobbsee> n8k99: no idea :)
[03:44] <n8k99> ok
[03:45] <coreymon77> n8k99: give it a try
[03:45] <coreymon77> n8k99: i did
[03:45] <coreymon77> n8k99: and look what happened
[03:45] <n8k99> oh right
[03:45] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I think what coreymon77 meant was to add some other secondary e-mail addresses, keep the primary address intact, then only set that secondary address as the visible one
[03:46] <coreymon77> Jucato: exactly
[03:47] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: we can get @kubuntu.com addresses?
[03:47] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: because if thats the case, id rather get that than a @ubuntu.com adress
[03:47] <Jucato> I think both work actually
[03:47] <jjesse> don't you get an @kubuntu one as soon as you become a member?
[03:47] <Hobbsee> jjesse: yes
[03:48] <Hobbsee> Jucato: right, yeah
[03:48] <coreymon77> oh, so mine works?
[03:48] <Hobbsee> coreymon77: we dont own kubuntu.com, so no.
[03:48] <jjesse> sure probablly does
[03:48] <Jucato> @kubuntu.org
[03:48] <coreymon77> oh
[03:48] <coreymon77> that
[03:48] <coreymon77> so i have coreymon77@kubuntu.org as an email adress
[03:48] <coreymon77> which forwards to my primary
[03:48] <jjesse> correct
[03:49] <coreymon77> lets try
[03:49] <jjesse> whatever is your primary in launchpad
[03:49] <Hobbsee> coreymon77: theoretically, yes.
[03:49]  * Hobbsee notes that she hasnt gotten a rejection email yet
[03:51]  * Jucato needs to setup a user support schedule to follow very strictly
[03:51] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: i got the email
[03:51] <Hobbsee> coreymon77: then it's working.
[03:52] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: however, i dont know what adress it came through
[03:52] <coreymon77> ku or u
[03:52] <ScottK> Look in the header, you'll be able to tell.
[03:52]  * Hobbsee sent an email to both, but the headers will tell you
[03:52]  * Hobbsee wonders, when trying to debug possible-non-existant email addresses, why they don't try sending it mail first, before coming and asking someone else to help them.
[03:53] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: ive tried that
[03:54] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: whenever i try sending myself an email
[03:54] <coreymon77> i never get it back
[03:54] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: try sending something to only the ku adress
[03:54] <Hobbsee> why?
[03:54] <coreymon77> Hobbsee: i dont know
[03:54] <Hobbsee> sent
[03:54] <Jucato> what email account were you using to send to the @ubuntu.com addresss?
[03:55] <Jucato> sometimes I can't send myself an e-mail if I use the same account (my gmail to my gmail)
[03:55] <Hobbsee> gmail gets a bit funny about sending yourself mail, iirc
[03:55] <Jucato> yeah. so i use my other 2 mail accounts
[03:56] <coreymon77> yes
[03:56] <coreymon77> im using the gmail one to do it
[03:56] <Jucato> that would explain it then
[03:56] <coreymon77> anyways
[03:56] <coreymon77> it worked
[03:56] <coreymon77> ill add the kubuntu.org adress to lp
[03:56] <Jucato> yay! (I think)
[03:57]  * Jucato goes out to buy some sanity...
[03:57] <Hobbsee> hhe
[03:57] <Hobbsee> find me some
[03:58] <coreymon77> oh
[03:58] <coreymon77> is it possible to only set one of my emails as visible?
[03:59] <coreymon77> or is it all or nothing
[04:00]  * Hobbsee would suggest for those sort of questions, one should "just try it", rather than asking, particularly based on the fact that our emails seem to be obviously public anyway
[04:01] <Hobbsee> "does the LP UI let me do this?" "how about you go and look"
[04:09] <Jucato> aaah! mt.dew induced sanity
[04:10] <Jucato> or better yet, #launchpad ? :)
[04:11] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i'm still there, and the response of "use your brain, have a look" still applies thre too
[04:27]  * Jucato schedules an Adept bug triaging day
[04:31] <Hobbsee> ah yes, adept
[04:31] <Hobbsee> Jucato: htey plan to decide what to do about that at UDS
[04:32] <Jucato> polish and bug fixing is all I can think about right now... given specially that we're shorthanded on people working on it...
[04:32] <Jucato> hm.. although I'm wondering if we can fully integrate software-properties-kde into Adept...
[04:37] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i suspect it needs a rewrite - it's mostly unmaintainable.
[04:38] <Jucato> that's the hardest part...
[04:39]  * Jucato would love to start reading about APT API if there were any easy docs to read :)
[04:40] <Hobbsee> apt isnt bad, iirc
[04:41] <DaSkreech> Is Ubuntu going to start using diffs for the sources soon ?
[04:42] <Jucato> Hobbsee: jsgotangco mentioned last night that there was once a proposal to redo the UI for g-a-i... that would require us to update Adept Installer as well
[04:42]  * Jucato is not fond of that little bugger
[04:42] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: ...?
[04:42] <Hobbsee> a) where did you hear that?  b) what do you mean?
[04:42] <Jucato> you mean like deltas?
[04:43] <DaSkreech> They had a version of deb in Debian about a year a go I thnk that would pull down a diff instead of a full reload
[04:43] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[04:43] <Hobbsee> so are you talking about diffs for sources, or diffs for binaries?
[04:43] <Hobbsee> diffs for sources already get done, for the most part
[04:43] <DaSkreech> Really?
[04:43] <Jucato> diff.gz right?
[04:43] <Hobbsee> .dsc and .diff.gz, yes.
[04:43] <DaSkreech> doesn't feel like it
[04:44] <Jucato> ...
[04:44] <Hobbsee> Jucato: effectively, yes.  you can keep the tarball, and download the .dsc and .diff.gz, unpack it, and get the new source
[04:44] <Jucato> dpkg-source -x *.dsc
[04:44] <Hobbsee> and those arent exactly big.
[04:44] <DaSkreech> Still takes forever to fetch updates
[04:44] <Jucato> she did say source diffs
[04:44] <DaSkreech> oh sorry I meant source.lists
[04:44] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: methinks you dont undersatnd the difference between sources and binaries.  in your original thing, you said sources.
[04:44] <Hobbsee> oh right, which is totally different.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> unsure why we dont rsync them, instead of wgetting them, actually.
[04:45] <Jucato> does apt support that?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> not sure, tbh.
[04:45] <Jucato> for apt-get update I mean
[04:45] <Hobbsee> the lists?  unsure.  wouldnt be that hard to implement, i expect
[04:45] <Jucato> that could be one reason why
[04:45] <DaSkreech> It does in Debian
[04:46]  * Hobbsee really suspects that it doesnt.
[04:46]  * Jucato thinks apt only uses http or ftp
[04:47] <Hobbsee> not all the mirrors seem to support rsync, so..
[06:01] <DaSkreech> LongPointyStick: http://sheldoncode.blogspot.com/2007/10/opensuse-for-day-or-few-hours.html
[06:03]  * manchicken hopes that there's a fix for his kmix not working well with ALSA problem in the repos...
[06:03] <manchicken> Alas, there is not.
[06:03] <manchicken> I don't get this at all.
[06:06] <manchicken> I don't know what's up with my volume control thing.
[06:06] <manchicken> If I go into kmix and change any of the channel volumes from within the mixer, things are fine.
[06:07] <manchicken> If I click kmix's icon in the tray and I get the volume slider, I get no change.  If I use the hotkeys the kmilo (or whatever it is) uses, I can only get mute to work by changing the master channel in kmix.
[06:07] <manchicken> But I can't get kmilo keys to change the volume at all.
[06:17] <manchicken> I'm gonna try wiping those configs.  brb
[06:19] <manchicken> Nope, that didn't do it.
[06:19] <manchicken> This is confusing...
[06:26] <manchicken> Okay, looks like there are two bugs...
[06:27] <manchicken> Bug #58790, and a duplicate (which is gutsy and 3.5.8 specific), but #154634.
[06:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 58790 in kdemultimedia "kmix: dcop calls to adjust volume should affect user-set master channel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58790
[06:27] <manchicken> bug #154634 even
[06:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154634 in meta-kde "sound control using multimedia keys (dup-of: 58790)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154634
[08:03] <drsatyri> hello all
[08:40] <serzholino> KDE packages in gutsy still have broken translations of plural forms :(
[08:41] <serzholino> although it was announced that launchpad now supports them
[08:45] <serzholino> amarok full of "BROKEN TRANSLATION Track played once", "BROKEN TRANSLATION Single" and so on
[08:46] <serzholino> on which component i should file bugreport?
[08:52] <DaSkreech> Amarok I guess
[08:56] <Lord_Cerber> dont know if i should ask here- after gutsy update k3b application hangs up with "kdecore (KAction): WARNING: KActionCollection::KActionCollection( QObject *parent, const char *name, KInstance *instance )" when just loading splash screen. Where can i ask about problem?
[08:58] <serzholino> DaSkreech: same problem with akregator, adept_notifier
[08:59] <DaSkreech> Ah Well .. .just those three?
[09:00] <serzholino> looks like
[09:02] <serzholino> kmail is ok
[09:03] <DaSkreech> Well you can file under those three
[09:03] <DaSkreech>  If you find more then come back may be something else
[09:03] <serzholino> ok, thanks
[09:03] <serzholino> maybe kmail was fully translated upstream and does not include translations from rosetta
[09:04] <serzholino> BTW, on feisty amarok 1.4.7 from backports was ok
[09:08] <emilsedgh> ryanakca: ping
[09:23] <Hobbsee> wow, another blast.  http://sheldoncode.blogspot.com/2007/10/opensuse-for-day-or-few-hours.html
[09:23] <Jucato> it's just one hit after another...
[09:25] <Hobbsee> yeah, well...
[09:25] <Jucato> Hobbsee: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=586236
[09:25] <Jucato> wishful thinking, mixed opinions...
[09:25] <Jucato> it's kinda sad that even from our own Ubuntu users, they don't like Kubuntu :(
[09:26] <Jucato> and recommend other KDE distros...
[09:26] <Jucato> hm.. it's 4:30? O.o
[09:27] <Hobbsee> Jucato: well, it's hard to hide that forever.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> goodness knows how many kubuntu users will do what i've done, too
[09:27] <Jucato> :(
[09:28] <Jucato> bye bye greenphone...
[09:28] <Hobbsee> oh?
[09:29] <Jucato> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6964769377.html not sure if it's 100% accurate yet :)
[09:29] <Jucato> if they're really eyeing Neo1973... then that +1 reason for me to want to buy one :)
[09:30] <freeflying> Jucato: neo1973 is so slow
[09:31] <Jucato> oh? :(
[09:31] <Jucato> with Qtopia or with OpenMoko?
[09:31] <freeflying> with openmoko
[09:31] <Jucato> although I bet it's faster than my Nokia 6600? :D
[09:31] <Hobbsee> oh dear :(
[09:31] <Jucato> oh that wasn't supposed to be a question :)
[09:32] <Jucato> oh well, if it's really slow, that narrows down my choices to 2: a high-end Eee PC or Nokia N810 :D
[09:32] <freeflying> the time costed by the boot process is similiar as my notebook :)
[09:32] <emilsedgh> who should accept me as a kubuntu-website member?
[09:33] <Jucato> kubntu-website member?
[09:33] <Jucato> freeflying: that long? for a smartphone? :/
[09:33] <Jucato> although you're not supposed to boot it much :D
[09:33] <Hobbsee> emilsedgh: who were you told that you were looking for?
[09:33] <freeflying> Jucato: yes, so its very slow
[09:33]  * Hobbsee thinks it was kwwii, and mhb?
[09:33] <Jucato> ah
[09:33] <Jucato> freeflying: bummer :(
[09:33] <emilsedgh> Hobbsee: i talked to mhb and ryanakca
[09:35] <Hobbsee> emilsedgh: what did they say?
[09:35] <Jucato> "You're the blue-backgrounded half brother of an wildly popular distribution. You're more or less the same, but yet wickedly different"
[09:35] <Jucato> ouch... really ouch... :(
[09:35] <emilsedgh> Hobbsee: i already contributed little things to website, now i have more things so i want to commit...
[09:36] <Jucato> emilsedgh: could you migrate the whole thing to Drupal? :)
[09:36] <emilsedgh> Jucato: im working on drupal theme :P
[09:36] <Jucato> yay!
[09:36] <Jucato> but the website isn't using drupal yet, right?
[09:37] <emilsedgh> Jucato: not yet
[09:37] <Jucato> good luck and have fun! :)
[09:37] <WaltzingAlong> Jucato: yeah it kind of feels that way. search youtube for kubuntu compiz or such, find little; search for ubuntu compiz find lots; maybe there can be a select set of people who get to gnu/linux based distros due to the hype about pretty effects in ubuntu then switch to kubuntu since they like kde instead; perhaps with each release ubuntuK seems as complete as ubuntuG
[09:38] <Hobbsee> emilsedgh: oh, you mean the launchpad team so you can commit?
[09:38] <Hobbsee> WaltzingAlong: have you *tried* compiz under kde?
[09:38] <emilsedgh> Hobbsee: yes
[09:38] <Hobbsee> that's not kubuntu-specific
[09:38] <WaltzingAlong> Hobbsee: :p yes i know
[09:38] <Hobbsee> emilsedgh: then you're looking for whoever the administrators of that team are
[09:38] <Hobbsee> WaltzingAlong: although i've no idea why k-win-deco is so bad.
[09:38] <emilsedgh> Hobbsee: so who is that guy /who are those guys?
[09:39] <Hobbsee> emilsedgh: see lp.net/~kubuntu-website, i expect.
[09:39] <Hobbsee> i havent looked it up
[09:39] <emilsedgh> thanks Hobbsee
[09:40] <Jucato> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-website
[09:40] <emilsedgh> Jucato: is #kubuntu at last, free of ati/nvidia questions with restricted manager?
[09:40] <Jucato> emilsedgh: just ati drivers
[09:40] <WaltzingAlong> emilsedgh: of course there will be questions about how to do it (for those who have not looked to the restricted manager)
[09:40] <Jucato> actually specific versions of ati drivers
[09:41] <emilsedgh> WaltzingAlong: most will be gone
[09:41] <Jucato> but FAQ #1 lately is compiz, and #2 would be upgrading
[09:41] <emilsedgh> Jucato: whats the matter with nvidia ?
[09:41] <emilsedgh> ghh
[09:41] <Jucato> no one complains about nvidia :)
[09:41] <WaltzingAlong> or the question about nvidia is should i use nvidia-glx or nvidia-glx-new    (without realizing that nvidia-glx is provided by nvidia-glx-legacy or nvidia-glx-new)
[09:42] <Jucato> just people asking about when this version of ati driver would come
[09:42] <Jucato> WaltzingAlong: it is? really?
[09:42] <Jucato> WaltzingAlong: there are 3 nvidia drivers
[09:42] <Jucato> which (should be) mutually exclusive
[09:43] <emilsedgh> Jucato: FAQ #3 is Kopete's msn problem, i think :P
[09:43] <Jucato> ah yes :)
[09:43] <Jucato> amazing how the kdesudo bug is only asked in forums...
[09:44] <Hobbsee> kdesudo has which bug now?
[09:44] <WaltzingAlong> Jucato: aptitude show nvidia-glx | grep Provided            yields   'Provided by: nvidia-glx-legacy, nvidia-glx-new'
[09:44] <Jucato> Hobbsee: the same bug. has the fix been uploaded?
[09:44] <Jucato> or you didn't know about it?
[09:44] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i'm not aware of it atm
[09:45] <Jucato> it messes with the app's config ownership (makes it owned by root)
[09:45] <Jucato> in a nutshell
[09:45] <Jucato> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdesudo/+bug/155032
[09:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155032 in kdesudo "kdesu ownership change" [Critical,Confirmed]
[09:45] <Jucato> 4 dups
[09:45] <WaltzingAlong> Jucato: well i have nvidia-glx-new on here but not nvidia-glx; and yes it seems they conflict (nvidia-glx, nvidia-glx-legacy, and nvidia-glx-new)
[09:46] <Jucato> WaltzingAlong: it should each of those 3 provides a different driver for each of the 3 "groups" of cards.
[09:46] <Hobbsee> Jucato: ahh, i'm not subscribed to them
[09:46] <Jucato> older legacy, legacy, and current (nvidia's groupings)
[09:47] <Jucato> Hobbsee: neither was I, but it made some noise in the forums and in here :)
[09:47] <WaltzingAlong> Jucato: alright
[09:47] <Jucato> (kubuntuforums of course)
[09:48] <Hobbsee> Jucato: eparse.
[09:48] <Jucato> eparse?
[09:49] <Hobbsee> error parsing
[09:49] <Hobbsee> Jucato: ie, if you use kdesudo kate, root now owns the config files, and so you cant restart as a user?
[09:50] <Jucato> you can, but can't make changes to settings
[09:50] <Hobbsee> right, yes, because the config files are owned by root
[09:50] <Jucato> in some cases, like in Dolphin (when you use Open as Root), you get a crash/error message at the end
[09:50] <Hobbsee> wonder why they couldnt have said that on the bug report - i cant figure out what the original guy is saying :)
[09:50] <Hobbsee> right, yeah
[09:50] <Hobbsee> i've seen that
[09:50] <Hobbsee> i'm not missing dolphin, actually
[09:50] <Jucato> what's that? >:)
[09:51] <Jucato> btw, just to add fuel to the fire, have already seen a few comments about Kubuntu Gutsy released while not ready for release :P
[09:51]  * Jucato puts a firewall around him...
[09:52]  * WaltzingAlong tunnels through the firewall 
[09:52] <Hobbsee> yeah, well
[09:52] <Hobbsee> the entire thing wasnt.
[10:27] <Mez> Riddell/anyone - who runs the kubuntu forums?
[10:39] <Jucato> Mez: a private individual. Open Source (his handle in the forums0
[10:39] <Mez> ah that sucks ;) hehe
[10:39] <Mez> I need an email ;)
[10:39] <Jucato> you need his e-mail?
[10:40] <Jucato> ah looks like he set it to hidden. :)
[10:40] <Jucato> he does have a Yahoo Messenger account, which means it could also be his e-mail (if that's what you wanted)
[10:50] <Hobbsee> oh, he actually runs it?
[10:50] <Hobbsee> hasnt he been in u-d recently?
[10:55] <Riddell> Hobbsee: no, different guy
[10:55] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:58] <Hobbsee> Riddell: what are your plans for hardy?
[10:58] <_StefanS_> I would like to see qtcurve as default style.
[10:59] <Riddell> Hobbsee: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuGutsyCatchup see bottom
[10:59] <Hobbsee> hah.  i love the new spec part
[11:02] <Hobbsee> Riddell: looks good
[11:03] <emilsedgh> anyone knows that when the conexant driver for 7.10 will be ready?
[11:07] <Jucato> Hobbsee: what are *your* plans? :D
[11:08] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i have no idea.  maybe i'll take a release cycle off.  i'd like to have a look at apt.
[11:08] <Hobbsee> i'd probably take hardy+1 off, actually
[11:08] <Jucato> aw... that will be the release with KDE 4 :(
[11:08] <Hobbsee> do some QA-based stuff
[11:08] <Hobbsee> hammer canonical to do some things more sanely :)
[11:09] <Jucato> Hobbsee: if you find some good docs/guides about libapt, ping me :)
[11:09] <Hobbsee> okay, continue to hammer them
[11:09]  * Jucato doesn't know where to begin...
[11:09] <Hobbsee> perhaps do some more upstream stuff
[11:09] <Hobbsee> Jucato: me neither.  ask mvo, perhaps
[11:09] <Jucato> ok :)
[11:09] <Hobbsee> come to think of it, i probalby wont take hardy+1 off, as hopefully i'll have been invited to that UDS, so have lots of stuff that i want to see in
[11:10] <Jucato> Hobbsee: and we will probably need all the help we can get with the migration to KDE 4 :)
[11:10] <Hobbsee> Jucato: perhaps...but that will depend somewhat on what DE i'm running :)
[11:11] <Jucato> :(
[11:14] <Hobbsee> Jucato: master plan is to go easy on ubuntu for the next couple of years, then look around after that, as i'll have finished uni
[11:15] <Jucato> :)
[11:26] <Mez> Jucato, I'll safely assume that       Brantley, Zack  zackman@hotpop.com
[11:26] <Mez>  is him
[11:26] <Jucato> http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2
[11:27] <Jucato> YIM is also a yahoo mail account so...
[11:37] <ryanakca> Hobbsee, Jucato: If emilsedgh shows up again, mind telling him that the branch is under kubuntu-members, and that we don't use the kubuntu-website team? And tell him that we'll continue merging from his personal branch into the -members branch?
[11:40] <ryanakca> Please :)
[11:40]  * ryanakca goes back to getting ready for school
[11:45] <emilsedgh> ryanakca: still not there?
[11:46] <Riddell> 11:37 < ryanakca> Hobbsee, Jucato: If emilsedgh shows up again, mind telling him that the branch is under kubuntu-members, and that we don't use the kubuntu-website team? And tell him that we'll continue merging from his personal branch into the -members branch?
[11:47] <emilsedgh> Riddell: thanks
[11:47] <emilsedgh> since i deleted my branch, i should give him patches
[11:58] <mooper> hey chaps, are you going to fix knetworkmanager in gutsy?
[11:59] <mooper> cos Its a little sucky at the moment if you want to play with changing gateways etc
[12:00] <mooper> In fact, I changed my default gateway to something else last night on my laptop last night, now I cant change it back :(
[12:01] <ryanakca> emilsedgh: if you want to send patches, send bundles instead... `bzr branch http://bazaar.lanchpad.net/..../kubuntu-theme-v1 emilsedgh-branch`, make your changes, `bzr commit -m "commit message"`, `bzr bundle-revisions > foo.bundle`, and email me the foo.bundle .
[12:02] <emilsedgh> ok, thanks
[12:02] <ryanakca> np :)
[12:02] <ryanakca> that way the changes will be commited into the main branch under your name and not mine... and under your commit message :)
[12:06] <Riddell> mooper: I don't believe knetworkmanager lets you change gateway, it's dhcp only
[12:06] <mooper> Riddell It does
[12:07] <Riddell> mooper: you're probably looking at knetworkconf
[12:08] <mooper> Riddell manual configuration>select the interface>Configure Interface>manual>Advanced settings>>>
[12:08] <Riddell> yeah, that's knetworkconf
[12:09] <Riddell> you can remove the entries in /etc/network/interfaces to go back to using knetworkmanager
[12:10] <mooper> Riddell: just delete them?
[12:10] <Riddell> yes
[12:11] <Riddell> and proably sudo /etc/init.d/dbus restart
[12:11] <mooper> Riddell: they dont say anything about gateway, just the standard
[12:11] <mooper> auto eth0
[12:11] <mooper> iface eth0 inet dhcp
[12:11] <mooper> same as on my other kubuntu box
[12:12] <Riddell> that still won't work in network manager in gutsy as I understand it
[12:13] <mooper> Im on feisty
[12:16] <Hobbsee> oh, merges already?
[12:17] <Hobbsee> ooh, there *is* stuff for me to merge
[12:28] <mhb> hi folks
[12:29] <mhb> hi emilsedgh, what's up?
[12:29] <emilsedgh> hey mhb
[12:29] <emilsedgh> mhb: /msg?
[12:32] <mhb> no problem here
[13:21] <Knightlust> a.. gotta get myself a UPS for my srver
[13:22] <Knightlust> oops, sorry, wrong channel
[14:13] <Jucato> !helpersnack | nixternal
[14:13] <ubotu> nixternal: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
[14:14] <n8k99> !nixternal
[14:14] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[14:14] <n8k99> oops not that one
[14:15] <n8k99> are there dcop calls to send text strings into basket?
[14:19] <jjesse> evening Jucato
[14:19] <Jucato> good morning to you jjesse! :)
[14:26] <nixternal> why a cookie?
[14:27] <Jucato> nixternal: see the backlog in #kde-devel :P
[14:27] <Jucato> er.. scrollback
[14:28] <nixternal> ahhh
[14:28] <WaltzingAlong> should be a fruit or vegetable?
[14:29] <Jucato> if you don't want it, I can always take it back? :)
[14:29] <nixternal> nah, even though it is early, a cookie sounds good
[14:29]  * nixternal wonders if Tonio is going to do the talk tomorrow
[14:29] <Jucato> a cookie *always* sounds good
[14:29] <nixternal> so does sleep :)
[14:31] <Jucato> so does.. um. nvm :)
[14:44] <Lord_Cerber> any one seen the problem - programms (amarok, juk, k3b,pidgin) after update to gutsy just start and nothing happens - thou they are present in process list. NO debugging output is given. Only amarok says Amarok: [Loader] Don't run gdb, valgrind, etc. against this binary! Use amarokapp?
[14:45] <Hobbsee> ....no?
[14:45] <Hobbsee> does this happen on a new kde profile?
[14:46] <sebas> strace it
[14:50] <Lord_Cerber> pidgin strace stopped on this:
[14:50] <Lord_Cerber> clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {35659, 599382759}) = 0
[14:50] <Lord_Cerber> munmap(0xb51fd000, 472189)              = 0
[14:50] <Lord_Cerber> clone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, child_tidptr=0xb7063918) = 21226
[14:50] <Lord_Cerber> close(16)                               = 0
[14:50] <Lord_Cerber> read(15,
[14:51] <Lord_Cerber> amarok runs with
[14:51] <Lord_Cerber> gettimeofday({1193060866, 255054}, NULL) = 0
[14:51] <Lord_Cerber> select(14, [3 4 5 12 13], [], [], {0, 5091}) = 0 (Timeout)
[14:52] <WaltzingAlong> on http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/kubuntu-upgrade/ the actual picture (when the thumbnail is clicked) of snapshot6 is that of snapshot0
[14:52] <Jucato> WaltzingAlong: yes it was intended to be so
[14:52] <Jucato> according to Riddell
[14:53] <WaltzingAlong> Jucato: i see. had not clicked through them before but had a question about what is being typed there, suppose it is just to get adept running again with --dist-upgrade but now no longer needed since gutsy is official?
[14:55] <Jucato> WaltzingAlong: it was supposed to be: kdesu "adept_manager --version-upgrade"
[14:55] <Jucato> but the updated version of Adept on Feisty no longer required that
[14:55] <Jucato> (if I understood Riddell correctly)
[14:56] <WaltzingAlong> i see. i guess the person asked because the thumbnail and picture when clicked were different.
[14:56] <WaltzingAlong> ok, got it
[14:57] <WaltzingAlong> thanks
[14:59] <Riddell> fixed
[14:59] <Riddell> (pending cache)
[14:59] <jjesse> Riddell: sorry missed the mtg last night
[15:00] <jjesse> Riddell: read the log linked  from your blog
[16:09] <DaSkreech> Jucato: WHot
[16:09] <DaSkreech> Whoot too :)
[16:10] <Jucato> hoot
[16:10] <DaSkreech> IRC in KDE4 :)
[16:10] <Jucato> hm..ok...
[16:11] <DaSkreech> Now just need to figure out an IM ...
[16:12] <Jucato> kopete :)
[16:12] <Jucato> what are you using btw?
[16:13] <DaSkreech> Suse live Cd
[16:13] <DaSkreech> No amarok :(
[16:13] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: ping
[16:13] <Jucato> but what app to irc?
[16:13] <Hobbsee> You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[16:14] <Jucato> ooooh!
[16:14] <jpatrick> Ah, right
[16:14] <Jucato> Hobbsee: ping
[16:14] <Hobbsee> You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[16:14] <Jucato> unping :D
[16:14] <jpatrick> they've replaced her with a robot!! :O
[16:14] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: ping wiht content
[16:14] <Hobbsee> You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[16:14] <DaSkreech> Damn
[16:14]  * Hobbsee replaces DaSkreech with a very small shell script.
[16:14] <jpatrick> ok, let's stop that..
[16:15] <DaSkreech> exit 1
[16:16] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: just wondering if you plan to work on the kdmtheme merge
[16:17] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: go ahead.  if the changes are relevant, stick them back into debian kde svn repo, then sync it.
[16:17] <Hobbsee> (if it's done by them - i htink it is)
[16:18] <jpatrick> they have one hell of a nasty *.diff.gz
[16:18] <Hobbsee> wouldnt surprise me
[16:19] <jpatrick> and, if you have the time, could you look at semantik on revu? (replaces: kdissert)
[16:19]  * Hobbsee probably wont :)
[16:20] <jpatrick> ok, anyone else with motu rights
[16:20] <DaSkreech> Argh!
[16:20] <DaSkreech> Konsole spawns a notification every minute
[16:21]  * Jucato should probably advertise OpenWeek in #kubuntu
[16:21] <jpatrick> let's just add it to /topci
[16:21] <Jucato> on second thought... I'd rather go to bed
[16:22] <DaSkreech> Night Jucato
[16:22] <Jucato> night
[16:22] <DaSkreech> Hope you get your groove back
[16:22] <jpatrick> g'night
[16:23] <Jucato> me too...
[16:23] <Jucato> I desperetely need to get my groove back asap
[16:23] <DaSkreech> Pull a aaron
[16:23] <DaSkreech> stick your feet in a river
[16:23] <Jucato> we only have a dirty creek :)
[16:24] <Jucato> I'll try an early morning stroll tomorrow...
[16:24] <Jucato> maybe I'll find something...
[16:24] <jpatrick> those are awesome
[16:24] <DaSkreech> I like walks
[16:24] <DaSkreech> help you to center
[16:25] <Jucato> would be great if we had a  pretty place to walk to...
[16:25] <Jucato> like a park or some thing nature-y
[16:25] <DaSkreech> Concrete jungle?
[16:25] <jpatrick> nature itself?
[16:25] <Jucato> even if we're technically and geographically in the province, there's not much to see
[16:26] <DaSkreech> Look harder :) nature intrudes in a very insistent manner
[16:29] <Jucato> I can't go out tomorrow after all... :(
[16:29] <Jucato> my asthma intrudes more insistently...
[16:31] <DaSkreech> Aww Sorry to hear
[16:37]  * Hobbsee notes that it's really hard to converse in a second language.
[16:38] <DaSkreech> Like geek?
[16:41] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: no, like german.
[16:41] <DaSkreech> Ja!
[16:43] <WaltzingAlong> need to understand it better i suppose
[16:45] <Hobbsee> so many verbs and adjectives and such.  learning another language is *hard* dammit.
[16:46] <WaltzingAlong> Hobbsee: my guess is that increasing the level of "immersement" would make it much easier
[16:46] <Hobbsee> WaltzingAlong: yeah, well.
[16:46] <WaltzingAlong> Hobbsee: hard to do on the other side of the world?
[16:46] <Hobbsee> rather
[16:56]  * DaSkreech points Hobbsee to parley
[16:56] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: hmmm?
[16:56]  * Hobbsee is stirring in the open day stuff
[16:57] <DaSkreech> ok time for work
[16:57] <DaSkreech> GHood bye KDE4 goodness
[17:22] <maini10> Hello, someone reports a crash using kdesu "adept_manager --version-upgrade" to upgrade from Feisty. But I have seen in the upgrade notes that wizard should appear automatically without this command. What is the right procedure?
[17:24] <Riddell> maini10: it'll appear automatically with the latest adept from feisty-proposed
[17:25] <maini10> Riddell: unfortunately, reporter of bug 153016 says that also latest version doesn't show the wizard. I can't confirm it because I use Gutsy
[17:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153016 in adept "adept_manager crashes when updating from Feisty to Gutsy" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153016
[18:15] <Riddell> nixternal: fancy doing a dot story about the new mandriva and kubuntu releases?
[18:17] <daSkreech> Does suse get one?
[18:17] <daSkreech> or they have their own publisher?
[18:17] <nosrednaekim> they have people PAID to do their advertising ;)
[18:18] <daSkreech> They have paid people??
[18:18]  * daSkreech grins :)
[18:19] <nosrednaekim> Novell?you bet!
[18:20] <Riddell> daSkreech: they got one when they released
[19:51] <fdoving> Riddell: did you get my message from last night about the dynamic xauth generating debdiff for kdesudo?
[19:54] <_StefanS_> hey fdoving
[19:54] <fdoving> hey stefans.
[19:54] <_StefanS_> do you have problems with kdmtheme too ?
[19:54] <fdoving> what kind of problems?
[19:54] <_StefanS_> donno if its related to kdesudo also..
[19:54] <_StefanS_> 2secs
[19:54] <_StefanS_> #148706
[19:55] <_StefanS_> isn't it supposed to give you the headline for the bug?
[19:55] <_StefanS_> hmm.
[19:58] <fdoving> bug 148706
[19:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 148706 in kde-systemsettings "kdmtheme module can not apply changes" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/148706
[19:59] <fdoving> Riddell: nevermind all the whining, looks like it doesn't work as i want it to just yet. i'll get back to you when it does.
[20:00] <fdoving> _StefanS_: i can try to reproduce and investigate in a few.
[20:00] <_StefanS_> would be nice
[20:04] <manchicken> It seems that there's a nasty runaway process that is just killing my machine's performance...
[20:04] <fdoving> manchicken: look for strigi
[20:05] <nixternal> Riddell: should I do a write up for each distro, or a write up about both distros?
[20:05] <manchicken> I see no strigi, but I see several /bin/sh procs running as root.
[20:05] <fdoving> hum.
[20:06] <fdoving> check their /proc/ entries?
[20:06] <yuriy> i'll be the first to propose that manchicken's machine has been hax0red
[20:06] <fdoving> environment and cmdline maybe?
[20:07] <manchicken> It's beagle.
[20:07] <fdoving> beagle is nice.
[20:07] <fdoving> i'm very happy with beagle and kerry.
[20:07] <fdoving> resource-hog like any desktop-search-thing, but the best i've tried so far.
[20:08] <manchicken> I just don't understand why it needs to kill my machine.
[20:08] <fdoving> good question.
[20:08] <manchicken> I just niced it to 19.
[20:09] <manchicken> See if that helps.
[20:09] <manchicken> At first it seemed like a touchpad issue.
[20:09] <fdoving> strange thing it isn't niced to something low-pri already.
[20:09] <manchicken> But it is becoming apparent that it's something killing performance.
[20:09] <manchicken> It was niced to 0
[20:18] <Riddell> nixternal: one for both
[20:19] <mhb> good evening folks
[20:19] <mhb> is anyone running hardy yet? Is it possible, even?
[20:23] <_StefanS_> mhb: I donno if the toolchain is even uploaded
[20:26] <xipietotec> I believe the kde4 packages in universe are broken
[20:31] <stdin> broken how?
[20:32] <xipietotec> stdin, kde4addons conflicts with base, also installing base does not create a /apps/kdm/sessions folder.
[20:33] <stdin> xipietotec: can you post an apt-get log to pastebin?
[20:34] <yuriy> btw the description for kde4base has a typo
[20:34] <yuriy> "it offers no binary compatibility guarantee and will no help users."
[20:35] <_StefanS_> xipietotec: you need kdebase-workspace aswell
[20:35] <xipietotec> stdin, http://rafb.net/p/J4GH5A92.html
[20:36] <xipietotec> _StefanS_, there is no kde4base-workspace, so I need to install kdebase-workspace out of the normal kde packages?
[20:37] <_StefanS_> its not a normal kde package AFAIK, its KDE4
[20:37] <stdin> xipietotec: "kdebase-workspace" is a kde4 package
[20:38] <xipietotec> thats kinda crap naming convention, it does not show up in synaptic when you search for kde4.
[20:39] <stdin> it's description is "core workspace applications for KDE 4 testing"
[20:39] <stdin> seems clear enough
[20:40] <xipietotec> yeah, but it doesn't show up if you search for kde4 but all the other packages do (including a description search
[20:41] <stdin> search for "kde 4" then
[20:42] <nixternal> Riddell:  Kubuntu includes the last KDE 3.5.8, making it the first distribution to release the 8th maintenance update to the KDE 3.5 branch.  <-- that is correct right? :)
[20:43] <Riddell> yep
[20:43]  * nixternal presses submit
[20:43] <nixternal> Riddell: in the queue waiting for you!
[20:45] <fdoving> Riddell: how do you feel about having kdesudo tempfiles laying arouind in /tmp/ - there seems to be no way to remove the files from within kdesudo code, as kdesudo exits once the real command starts. - looks like it already creates iceauth files, and it also looks like gksu makes tempdirectories with xauthority files in them.
[20:46] <fdoving> would probably make sense to put them in the kde-username temp dir.
[20:46] <fdoving> the xauth cookies will timeout within the X server after 60 seconds if not used. so it's no risk that i can see.
[20:47] <fdoving> for the same reason we need a new file for every kdesudo run.
[20:48] <_StefanS_> fdoving: sounds good
[20:50] <stdin> Riddell: do you think it'd be a good idea to tell people to make sure they have software-properties-kde installed in the upgrade instructions ?
[20:51] <daSkreech> I do
[20:55] <yuriy> i'm trying to run a kde4 session, and it can't find "libkpty.so"
[20:55] <stdin> yuriy: make sure you installed with "sudo apt-get install kde4base-dev kdebase-workspace"
[20:56] <yuriy> ah i guess i was missing the first one, thanks
[20:57] <yuriy> i've had gutsy for 3 months, and constant upgrading doesn't seem to keep kde4 intact
[21:30] <Riddell> stdin: added to the upgrade screenshots
[21:30] <nixternal> what to talk about tomorrow?
[21:30] <nixternal> I don't think Tonio is going to be around...I think he was going to do one of the kubuntu talks...or was that Lure?
[21:31] <stdin> Riddell: great :)
[21:31] <Riddell> tonio was talking about the thursday one
[21:31] <nixternal> OK
[21:31] <nixternal> I think I am going to feel out the audience first...I would like to hopefully see a lot of new users there and try to attract them in to help out
[21:51] <nixternal> hey, whats up with Beta 3 btw for KDE 4?
[21:52] <daSkreech> Whats up?
[22:21] <xipietotec> do you have to have kubuntu-desktop installed to run kde4? I followed the instructions on kubuntu.org, and kde4 now loads up, but then immediately crashes.
[22:50] <Riddell> nixternal: it's in gutsy
[23:35] <fdoving> Riddell: proposed kdesudo fix is at http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kdesudo_debdiff_ubuntu3_dynamic_xauth_r2.diff and http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/kdesudo_1.1-0ubuntu5_i386.deb - now using it with root is secure and it will clean up tempfiles. when using with -u nonrootuser the xauth file will be exposed to anyone on the system because the -u user needs to read the file. it will of course be in /tmp/kdesudo-XXXXX-xauth some random things. but it's po
[23:37] <Riddell> "it's po"
[23:37] <jjess1> I don't like poo
[23:39] <fdoving>  but it's possible to
[23:39] <fdoving>           exploit that during the time the app is open as the user. I don't completely understand
[23:39] <fdoving>           how gksu does this. nite.
[23:39] <fdoving> gah, nice paste.
[23:40] <fdoving> it is possible for other users to set XAUTHORITY=/tmp/kdesudo-xxxx-xauth and run apps on the X server.
[23:41] <fdoving> with the cookie from kdesudo-xxxx-xauth
[23:41] <fdoving> but the file will be locked when in use.
[23:41] <ryanakca> fdoving: if there's a special code in /tmp/kdesudo-xxxx-xauth, and the file is read only, wouldn't that mean only the user who entered the pass can access it/use sudo?
[23:41] <fdoving> err, forget the lock thing, doesn't count for reading.
[23:42] <fdoving> ryanakca: no, because the file is created as the user executing kdesudo.
[23:42] <ryanakca> s/read only/read only for owner, no access for others/
[23:42] <fdoving> ryanakca: it's OK for root, as it can be 0600, or rw-----
[23:42] <fdoving> and root can still read it.
[23:43] <fdoving> but once you 'kdesudo -u someuser' you'll get problems.
[23:43] <ryanakca> ah
[23:43] <fdoving> because someuser can't read that.
[23:43]  * ryanakca nods
[23:45] <fdoving> well, bed. nite.
[23:45] <Riddell> fdoving: "Use a pty." which part of the diff is that?
[23:45] <Riddell> fdoving: ok, many thanks fdoving
[23:45] <fdoving> Riddell: it's nothing really, just mentioned in the changelog because i tested with KProcess::setUsePty
[23:45] <ryanakca> nite fdoving
[23:46] <fdoving> can safely be ignored.
[23:54] <nixternal> Riddell: kdebase-workspace says 3.93 here
[23:55] <nixternal> heh
[23:55] <nixternal> I swore for some reason that beta2 was 93...man am I a moron
[23:56] <stdin> I have 3.94.0-0ubuntu2
[23:56] <nixternal> ya, that is what it is supposed to be
[23:56] <nixternal> ok, so I am not a moron
[23:56] <nixternal> that means the us archives aren't updating
[23:56] <nixternal> argh!
[23:57] <stdin> hmm, us.archive.ubuntu.com and archive.ubuntu.com both point to the same IP(s)
[23:57] <nixternal> interesting...kdebase-workspace says 3.93-0ubuntu2 here, but kdebase-workspace-dev says 3.94-0ubuntu2
[23:58] <stdin> something screwy there
[23:59] <nixternal> actually, the us archives are/were right up the street from me...I wonder why it is pointing to the same IP now
[23:59] <nixternal> that explains the slowness