[00:02] <mekius> bryce: that's pretty good news :)
[00:03] <mekius> bryce: 7.3 sounds like it will be quite nice given all the issues I've had with monitor support and dual displays
[00:05] <mjg59> mekius: There's nothing especially relevant in 7.3 from that point of view
[00:05] <bryce> well, yeah what mjg said
[00:05] <mekius> hmm
[00:05] <mekius> Then why is that the big selling point of xserver 1.4?
[00:05] <bryce> what'll fix that is better xrandr support in the drivers
[00:05] <mjg59> It's not
[00:05] <mekius> that you don't need to have all the monitor config :/
[00:05] <bryce> input hotplug
[00:05] <mekius> well xrandr then
[00:05] <mekius> of course it does come down to the drivers like you say
[00:06] <bryce> and actually I've heard mixed reviews about the state of input hotplug right now
[00:06] <mjg59> 7.3 was the first full Xorg release with randr 1.2, but xserver 1.3 (which we shipped in gutsy) has the full protocol implementation
[00:06] <mekius> well afaik, there is no driver which fully supports xrandr 1.2
[00:06] <mjg59> ATI and Intel both support it
[00:07] <bryce> there's still so many bugs in -intel and -ati (not only about xrandr, but...)
[00:07] <bryce> I anticipate bug work for -ati and -intel is going to occupy the majority of my time for hardy
[00:10] <bryce> presently I've been focusing on just trying to lay groundwork for getting more people more deeply involved in driver debugging, as I think it's going to require a broad effort to get things squared away properly
[00:43]  * lamont notices that X moved to vt9, wonders why
[00:43] <calc> how do you create an ellipse in gimp?
[00:44] <Keybuk> with the ellipse tool?
[00:44] <Keybuk> it's the second one :)
[00:44] <calc> i see an ellipse select tool but not one that draws an ellipse
[00:44] <Keybuk> right
[00:44] <Keybuk> so select the ellipse
[00:44] <calc> maybe i am just a n00b ;)
[00:44] <Keybuk> then stroke it
[00:44] <calc> oh
[00:45] <calc> how do you do that? :)
[00:45] <Keybuk> Edit -> Stroke Selection
[00:46] <Keybuk> select a line width, or tool, or brush
[00:46] <calc> ah! :)
[00:47] <calc> thanks for the help
[00:47] <calc> i'm making an image for a bug report and needed to circle something on it
[00:47] <Keybuk> :)
[00:47] <Keybuk> the nice thing about the way gimp does it is you can make any shape just by combining selections
[00:47] <Keybuk> though it's a big obtuse
[00:55] <goalieca> I was having an /sbin/modprobe abnormal exit error on the 2.6.22 series of kernels. This would happen during boot and leave it hanging with "loading manual drivers"
[00:55] <goalieca> however the feisty kernel, and my newly compiled 2.6.23 kernel both function
[00:55] <goalieca> this is on amd64
[03:40] <t3318> hi
[03:40] <t3318> anyone know how to lock icons on desktop?
[03:41] <mjg59> t3318: I've no idea, but #ubuntu is the right place to ask support questions rather than here
[03:42] <t3318> yes
[03:42] <t3318> but I've asked this question many times there
[03:42] <t3318> but noone has answer
[03:42] <t3318> :(
[03:42] <t3318> I think Developers may have some idea
[03:43] <t3318> if developers have no idea, I don't know where to find answer :(
[03:50] <Hobbsee> this is still not a support channel.
[03:51] <Hobbsee> dont think you can, actually
[04:07] <lamont> heh.
[04:07] <lamont> so if I tell xchat to use the tree instead of tabs for channel switcher, and then don't actually join any channels on a server, then that entry in the tree is labeled '<none>'
[04:07] <lamont> and private message windows don't change that
[04:13] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: in gnome I think you can
[04:13] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: how?  i didnt see it
[04:13] <Chipzz> t3318: maybe sabayon is what you're after?
[04:13] <Hobbsee> but i didnt look thru the registry, etc, either
[04:13] <Chipzz> not sure if that is what you mean though
[04:14] <Chipzz> sabayon is a tool for system administrators to preconfigure and lock-down gnome
[04:16] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: sabayon and gconf will let you do it
[04:16] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: right.
[04:16]  * Hobbsee checks if we install sabayon by default
[04:17] <Hobbsee> no
[04:17] <Hobbsee> right :)
[04:17] <Chipzz> heh
[04:17] <Chipzz> this is weird
[04:17] <Chipzz> when I run powertop, I see this coming up every now and then:
[04:17] <Chipzz>    0.5% (  1.0)          ifconfig : b44_open (b44_timer)
[04:17] <Chipzz> so I was wondering what spawned that
[04:18] <mjg59> At a guess, I suspect it's your ethernet driver?
[04:18] <Chipzz> and replaced /sbin/ifconfig with a small shell script logging ifconfig's command line args to a file in /tmp, and then invoking the real ifconfig
[04:18] <Chipzz> but no files get created?
[04:18] <mjg59> Uhm.
[04:19] <mjg59> You've presumably ifupped your device at some point?
[04:19] <Chipzz> yes
[04:19] <mjg59> So...
[04:19] <Chipzz> but ps aux | grep ifconfig yields no results
[04:19] <mjg59> Correct. Ifconfig isn't running any more.
[04:19] <Chipzz> so it is not an already running ifconfig
[04:19] <Chipzz> so
[04:19] <mjg59> It's a kernel timer
[04:19] <Chipzz> why does it show up in powertop then?
[04:19] <mjg59> Because it's causing wakeups?
[04:20] <Chipzz> yes
[04:20] <Chipzz> but if it is, like you say, a kernel timer, then it ought to show up in powertop like this:
[04:20] <Chipzz>    0.5% (  1.2)     <kernel core> : neigh_table_init_no_netlink (neigh_periodic_timer)
[04:20] <Chipzz> (or something like that)
[04:21] <Chipzz> powertop has different "notations" for user space and kernel space programs
[04:21] <mjg59> No
[04:21] <jdong> Chipzz: well.. is 1 wakeup per second really bugging you?
[04:21] <mjg59> It's a kernel timer that was triggered by a userspace process
[04:21] <mjg59> Therefore it shows the process that triggered it
[04:21] <Chipzz> jdong: it isn't, but I'm actually curious why it's doing that
[04:22] <mjg59> Because you run ifconfig, it opens the device, opening the device causes a timer to start running
[04:22] <Chipzz> which keeps running even after ifconfig has exited?
[04:22] <mjg59> Assuming you wouldn't prefer the interface to be immediately downed after ifconfig exits, yes
[04:22] <Chipzz> hrrrm
[04:23] <Chipzz> I was assuming that something was wrong in our udev rules or something, which kept invoking ifconfig every few seconds
[04:23] <Chipzz> apparently I'm wrong then :)
[04:27] <pwnguin> so this isnt a recurring thing, just an artifact of ifconfig setting up some timeouts and exiting
[04:29] <mjg59> Correct
[04:30] <mjg59> Strictly it's the kernel that sets those up, ifconfig is just asking the kernel to bring the interface up
[04:30] <mjg59> b44 just doesn't seem to have interrupts for this sort of thing
[04:33] <pwnguin> hey, speaking of laptop kernel stuff, is tifm still in the ubuntu kernel?
[05:01] <jdong> pwnguin: yes?
[05:36] <nxvl> i cant build hardy with pbuilder, i have downloaded debootstrap from the mirrors and it doesn't work
[05:43] <YokoZar> I had an application crash and now I have no mouse movement, but I do have terminal inputs. What should I do to file a proper bug?
[05:44] <YokoZar> (plugging/replugging mouse doesn't wokr)
[05:44] <nxvl> reportbug
[05:45] <YokoZar> Well, without mouse movement (and not knowing how to reenable it without doing ctrl-alt-backspace) if I go to do that I'll spoil whatever data I can grab here.  Just wanted to know if I could dump some file first
[05:47] <nxvl> heh
[05:47] <nxvl> reportbug is a program to make bug reports from the terminal
[05:48] <YokoZar> oh, heh.  Yeah.  Still, there won't be any info from there that I couldn't get by just going to launchpad at this point.
[05:48] <YokoZar> Is there a way to reload just the mouse system of X?
[05:48] <YokoZar> Or do I need to do a full ctrl alt backspace?
[05:49] <YokoZar> All processes related to the app I was running are no longer running, so nothing should keep locking the mouse
[05:49] <Burgundavia> nxvl: reportbug does not work in Ubuntu
[05:50] <Burgundavia> YokoZar: what is locked the mouse is likely X
[05:50] <Burgundavia> logout
[05:50] <Burgundavia> and this really isn;t a support hcannel
[05:50] <nxvl> Burgundavia: so why is it on the mirrors?
[05:50] <YokoZar> Burgundavia: I know, but I'm talking about how to file a good bug here :)
[05:51] <YokoZar> Anyway, thanks.  bbl.
[05:55] <nxvl> Burgundavia: is debootstrap ready for hardy or it isn't?
[05:55] <Burgundavia> I have no idea
[06:00] <nxvl> mmm
[06:15]  * calc notices he will soon get beat up about the 1ubuntu5.1 update, apparently OOo can't handle 32bpp bitmaps
[06:19] <sladen> nxvl: apt-get source and find out :)
[07:04] <m1ke> Anyone here use a solid state hard drive?
[07:05] <jdong> m1ke: offtopic?
[07:05] <m1ke> jdong, you the man as this is where you hang out at.  ;)
[07:19] <dholbach> good morning
[07:20] <ION_> Good morning, and MERRY CAPS LOCK DAY.
[07:20] <dholbach> HEY ION_!
[07:32] <pitti> Good morning
[07:34] <dholbach> heya pitti
[07:34] <manchicken> mhb: ping
[07:38] <dholbach> hey thekorn_
[07:39] <dholbach> so how's hardy looking? :-)
[07:39] <manchicken> Actually, I'm looking for mvo...
[07:40] <manchicken> mvo's UTC+0300, right?
[07:41] <liw> manchicken, if he's in Germany, that's UTC+0200 right now
[07:41] <manchicken> Okay.
[07:41] <manchicken> So that's what, 8041?
[07:41] <manchicken> 0841*
[07:42] <dholbach> yes, he usually gets up a bit more late :-)
[07:42] <dholbach> also he might be at ubucon germany
[07:42] <manchicken> Righto.  I'm at 0142, just trying to figure out libapt a bit.
[07:42] <manchicken> Seems like he's the only one that's quite cracked that nut.
[07:42] <dholbach> you could say that :)
[07:43] <manchicken> Oh, believe me, I am saying that.  And what a nut it is.
[07:43] <manchicken> And I'm trying to pry open that coconut with a toothpick...
[08:07] <manchicken> Is anybody else having trouble getting python-mode loading in emacs22?
[08:10] <sladen> manchicken: it doesn't matter if other people are you not.  If _you_ are having trouble loading python-mode in emacs22, then that is a bug
[08:11] <sladen> manchicken: for me, python-mode got uninstalled, so you may need to reinstall it
[08:11] <manchicken> sladen: Well emacs22 is supposed to have one.
[08:12] <manchicken> And if I `M-x load-library python` in emacs then I get some font-lock-mode goodness, but not the really slick python-mode that I came to know and love under emacs21.
[08:12] <sladen> manchicken: I'm sure emacs22 is supposed to bigger, better and bolder
[08:12] <sladen> so far the only one I can confirm is that its bigger
[08:12] <manchicken> So emacs22's built-in python mode seems to suck, if what I've got of it is the right fella.
[08:12] <manchicken> Well its supposed to have UTF8 support.
[08:12] <manchicken> IIRC
[08:12] <manchicken> Which would account for the bigger.
[08:13] <sladen> might aswell install the external python-mode you've grown to know and love under emacs21
[08:14] <manchicken> Which requires emacs21
[08:15] <sladen> Depends: emacs21 | xemacs21-bin | emacs-snapshot | emacsen
[08:17] <manchicken> Submitted bug #155681
[08:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155681 in emacs22 "python-mode seems broken in emacs22" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155681
[08:17] <sladen> emacs22 Provides: emacsen
[08:19] <sladen> manchicken: responded, is it still broken?
[08:21] <manchicken> Nope
[08:23] <manchicken> I've tried that one several times, too :)
[08:23] <manchicken> I gave you the output of the install though.
[08:23] <sladen> manchicken: can you paste it into the bug report, along with the output of from the two command lines I've just included into it?
[08:23] <manchicken> I did :)
[08:32] <manchicken> sladen: replied
[08:34] <manchicken> Alright, I've gotta go to bed.  Catch you later.
[08:41] <S^n1x> does any one here knows what's the purpose of the ~/.local directory ?? why it will mass up ur system if the permission is set to something else ????
[08:42] <Mithrandir> S^n1x: this is a channel for development of Ubuntu, not a support channel.  Please ask in #ubuntu.
[08:45] <S^n1x> ok, thanks
[09:00] <dholbach> hey seb128
[09:00] <dholbach> hey raphink
[09:01] <seb128> hello dholbach
[09:06] <raphink> hi dholbach && seb128
[09:06] <seb128> hey raphink
[09:20]  * Hobbsee waves
[09:21] <raphink> hi Hobbsee
[09:32] <highvoltage> *hugs* all round
[09:32] <Hobbsee> *hugs highvoltage back*
[09:37] <sladen> hey, hey, don't show too much faviouritism.  There's 211 people on this channel, and they'll all be wanting a hug at this rate
[09:37] <Hobbsee> sladen: oh well :P
[09:37] <Hobbsee> sladen: although, the ones talking are the ones likely to want hugs.
[09:37] <pwnguin> well, when everyone hears hobbsee's handing out free hugs
[09:37]  * sladen stands around uncomfortably looking at the ceiling
[09:38] <pwnguin> it'll be more popular than #u-r-p
[09:38]  * RAOF hugs Hobbsee, and coffee, and the nvidia drivers that inexorably leak memory with compiz
[09:38]  * highvoltage is glad he still got a while there still was one available
[09:39] <highvoltage> insert a "hug" somewhere between "a" and "while" :)
[09:39]  * Hobbsee refuses to hug RAOF, as he didnt come to the release party.  nyah :P
[09:39]  * RAOF is a sad panda.
[09:39]  * pwnguin is a skull panda
[09:40]  * RAOF has a skull.
[09:40] <RAOF> And a raven.
[09:40] <RAOF> It's all very gothic.
[09:41] <pwnguin> so do you bother informing nvidia their drivers leak, or just silently wait for nouveau to become the official nvidia driver?
[09:41] <RAOF> pwnguin: Point me to a damn nvidia bugtracker, and I'll file bugs.
[09:41] <pwnguin> oh, i never said there was one
[09:42] <RAOF> Yeah.  The least they could do is actually have somewhere to constructively bitch at them.
[09:42] <pwnguin> they have a forum
[09:42] <pwnguin> but i guess its not constructive really
[09:42] <Hobbsee> forumsdonotmakegoodbugtrackerskthxbye
[09:42] <pwnguin> no they dont
[09:42] <pwnguin> spacesmakegoodfriendswithworks
[09:43] <Hobbsee> seb128: ping
[09:43] <pwnguin> Hobbsee: the question is, do you push for nvidia to adopt a bug tracker, or hope they fold under their own weight?
[09:44] <seb128> hey Hobbsee
[09:44] <Hobbsee> seb128: new gnome seems to work fine here, btw (from -proposed)
[09:44] <seb128> Hobbsee: cool, thanks ;-)
[09:44] <RAOF> pwnguin: Neither.  I bitch on irc!
[09:44] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: you dont buy nvidia cards.  easy fixed.
[09:44] <RAOF> pwnguin: But I'll plump for the latter.  Maybe with the panacea of open specs.
[09:45] <dholbach> RAOF: linux-bugs@nvidia.com
[09:45] <pwnguin> Hobbsee: what do i buy then?
[09:45] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: intel cards.
[09:45] <pwnguin> ok.
[09:45] <pwnguin> newegg link?
[09:45] <RAOF> pwnguin: ATI cands, soon, hopefully.
[09:45] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: and of course, the most effective bitching is done on livejournal, which is not syndicated to planet, nor anywhere else.
[09:46] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: i'm not in the US.  now newegg here.
[09:46] <pwnguin> well the point was that intel doesnt sell cards
[09:46] <pwnguin> they sell chips
[09:47] <Hobbsee> oh, nyah.  well, wahtever.
[09:47] <pwnguin> RAOF: has novell published a source repo or anything like that for their alleged efforts?
[09:47] <Hobbsee> the point is that you buy cards from a manufacturer where you dont have to give a damn about compatibility, as they have open drivers, and it all Just Works :)
[09:47] <pwnguin> heh
[09:47] <pwnguin> except when this manufacturer is mythical
[09:48] <RAOF> pwnguin: Doesn't gutsy already have the first whack at that driver?
[09:48] <pwnguin> RAOF: i donno
[09:49] <pwnguin> its got an open ati driver for some stuff, but i think you knew that
[09:50] <RAOF> pwnguin: There's -ati, -fglrx, -avivo, and something like atihd which is the new open driver.
[09:51] <pwnguin> Hobbsee: if you want an amd motherboard, you cant get intel video =(
[09:51] <Hobbsee> but why do you want an amd motherboard?  :)
[09:52] <pwnguin> ive no idea. i already have one. when i bought it, intel didnt even do 64 bit
[09:52] <sladen> the only AMD based motherboard it'd be worth having is the OLPC one;  which is at least open down to the core
[09:52] <pwnguin> or maybe you really like opterons
[09:52] <pwnguin> and their fantastic hypertransport cores
[09:52] <pwnguin> at which point, you likely dont care for video at all
[09:53] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: as you might be able to see, i'm not much of a hardware geek.  i just want it to work :)
[09:53] <pwnguin> sure, but perhaps you could realize that hardware exists before the dawn of choice
[09:53] <Hobbsee> true :)
[09:53] <sladen> I have this laptop, it has a builtin keyboard, UPS, nipple and screen.  Covers most of what I need
[09:54] <Hobbsee> sladen: i'm not that bad ;P
[09:54] <sladen> oh, I am
[09:54] <sladen> if it's ain't black, send it back
[09:55] <pwnguin> I don't recall the Ubuntu core principles being "Free of charge, because you'll need to buy a new computer to run it"
[09:55] <pwnguin> :)
[09:56] <pwnguin> anyways, hopefully ati will make good on it's suggestions of open drivers
[09:57] <pwnguin> and in some cases, one can at least say, "trade your card for an ati" or something
[09:58] <pwnguin> but im not sure if one bothers asking nvidia to set up a public bug tracker if it might lead to a less buggy closed driver and clamp demand for an open driver
[10:02] <pwnguin> there's also linux-bugs@nvidia.com and a bug report script
[11:22] <pitti> doko: our current debhelper dh_python adds '2.5' as version, but Debian didn't do this; I think we can drop this since it's a no-op now, and packages should use dh_pycentral or dh_pysupport; is that ok?
[11:24] <doko> pitti: it' not a no-op for unconverted packages (which we might still have in some dark universe corners)
[11:28] <pitti> doko: ok, I'll keep it for now
[12:33] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: remind me...we don't need to request sync request of build* versions of programs in ubuntu, do we?
[12:34] <Hobbsee> (and if this is true, why are build*'s showing up in the merge-o-matic?)
[12:55] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: no, you shouldn't need that.
[12:55] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: good, OK.
[13:32] <vegpuff> hi, any idea about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/25931 ? i am not able to start hal
[13:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 25931 in dbus "Failed to initalize HAL." [High,Incomplete]
[13:33] <vegpuff> i am not able to detect my hardware because of that
[13:33]  * Hobbsee suspects #ubuntu is a more appropriate channel
[13:34] <vegpuff> Hobbsee: i couldn't find any solution for this @ #ubuntu
[13:34] <vegpuff> being a high, incomplete bug, i prefered to check the status with the dev's
[13:35] <ogra_cmpc> you should do that on the bugtracker then :)
[13:36] <vegpuff> ogra_cmpc: :) okay
[13:36] <DktrKranz> pitti, mind looking at bug 112729 ?
[13:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 112729 in bootcd "[bashism] /usr/share/bootcd/bootcd-run.lib: 144: Syntax error: "(" unexpected" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/112729
[13:50] <slomo> mjg59: did you forward all your hal patches upstream?
[13:54] <ogra_cmpc> seb128: what would happen if i disable the cron.monthly scrollkeeper-update, would only my docs be out of date or could worse stuff happen ?
[13:56] <seb128> ogra_cmpc: probably nothing, it's call by the postinst of packages installing scrollkeeper documentation
[13:56] <ogra_cmpc> well, cron runs it as well
[13:56] <ogra_cmpc> i'll disable it then
[13:57] <ogra_cmpc> (it pulls teh classmate out of business for 1h if it runs)
[13:57] <seb128> ogra_cmpc: ah, that's a rebuilddb, not an update called in the cron
[13:58] <ogra_cmpc> ah
[13:58] <seb128> ogra_cmpc: it's mentionned on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=95402
[13:58] <ubotu> Debian bug 95402 in scrollkeeper "strange symlinks in /var/lib/scrollkeeper/" [Normal,Fixed]
[13:58] <seb128> looks like that's a "rebuild the database every now and then in case it would not be correct"
[13:58] <seb128> not sure if it still makes sense
[13:59] <ogra_cmpc> i'll look (takes a while to get FF up here :) )
[13:59] <seb128> ogra_cmpc: I would say it doesn't make sense, users would notice breakages before the cron run
[14:00] <ogra_cmpc> right
[14:04] <ogra_cmpc> asac: i saw there was a mobile browser specced for UME, is that going to happen ?
[14:29] <pitti> DktrKranz: looking
[14:31] <pitti> DktrKranz: done
[14:31] <DktrKranz> pitti: thanks
[14:52] <asac> ogra_cmpc: hmm
[14:53] <ogra_cmpc> using FF on the classmate gets quite painful over time (disk IO sucks so the fuller the cache the worse it gets)
[14:54]  * ogra_cmpc wonders how UME solves that
[14:56] <asac> ogra_cmpc: hmm ... i remember that bug.
[14:56] <asac> ogra_cmpc: thats something we should definitly look into for UME ... the patch would be beneficial for you as well i guess
[14:57] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[14:57] <asac> ogra_cmpc: i think i looked into this once and the problem was that on unix there is no implementation of "get_memory_pressure" ... or something like that
[14:57] <ogra_cmpc> well, the spec looked like you planned to slim down the xul backend as well
[14:57] <asac> which should return a measure of how much memory is utilized ... the result of that is used to discard the cache
[14:57] <asac> ogra_cmpc: i haven't drafted the spec ... do you have an url?
[14:58] <ogra_cmpc> i.e. using epiphany doesnt help much, must be gecko thats slowing down
[14:58] <ogra_cmpc> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-browser
[15:00] <seb128> ogra_cmpc: what about using epiphany with webkit? it's not ready yet but maybe for hardy...
[15:01] <asac> seb128: news on whether epiphany devs plan to make the rendering engine pluggable vs. compile-time switch?
[15:02] <seb128> asac: no, I've read nothing indicating that for the moment but the 2 flavors can be installed together
[15:02] <ogra_cmpc> seb128: i was planning to have a look at it ... currently it doesnt behave any differently to FF here it renders the fonts more appropriate though
[15:03] <ogra_cmpc> but i think UME will have to solve that anyway ,,,,
[15:03] <seb128> ok
[15:04] <Mithrandir> ogra_cmpc: hm?  Why would we have to care about epiphany in ubuntu-mobile?
[15:04] <ogra_cmpc> currently it takes several munites for me to load planet here (thanks to quim gil and his pic collections :)) www.heise.de (not many pics loads instantly though)
[15:05] <ogra_cmpc> Mithrandir: you dont, but i suspect you wont just use the firefox we have without customizations :)
[15:05] <Mithrandir> ogra_cmpc: we're using midbrowser.
[15:06] <ogra_cmpc> thats the one from the spec above, right?
[15:06] <Mithrandir> ogra_cmpc: yes.
[15:06] <ogra_cmpc> wher can i get it ? seems not packaged
[15:07] <Mithrandir> midbrowser | 0.1.6c-0ubuntu1 | gutsy/universe | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[15:07] <Mithrandir> midbrowser | 0.1.6c-0ubuntu1 | hardy/universe | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[15:07] <Mithrandir> seems about as packaged as it gets to me
[15:07] <ogra_cmpc> hmm, right, i'm just blindc
[15:07] <Mithrandir> ogra_cmpc: oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about pluggable backends to epiphany.  The memory pressure thing I'm less sure what we'll do about.
[15:08] <ogra_cmpc> Mithrandir: its mainly disk IO i'm concerned about
[15:08] <ogra_cmpc> all operations from ram are fine here
[15:08] <ogra_cmpc> but as soon as pics get stored it starts to suck up all IO
[15:14] <asac> ogra_cmpc: so your problem is not the "in-memory" cache, but the disc cache?
[15:16] <ogra_cmpc> asac: yup 2Gig USB flash disk
[15:16] <ogra_cmpc> its pretty slow in general already
[15:17] <asac> ogra_cmpc: you sure the IO you see is not swap?
[15:17] <ogra_cmpc> there is no swap on this system
[15:18] <ogra_cmpc> that would kill teh diskk pretty fast :)
[15:19] <asac> ogra_cmpc: does ffox get OOM frequently for you?
[15:24] <ogra_cmpc> no, it doesnt reach that point at all
[15:24] <ogra_cmpc> it rather makes the system die on IO before it runs out of ram
[15:25] <asac> ogra_cmpc: but it worked before, right?
[15:25] <asac> or was it always that way?
[15:25] <ogra_cmpc> it was always slow
[15:26] <ogra_cmpc> it got worse between feisty and gutsy though
[15:26] <asac> slow != dying
[15:26] <asac> ok
[15:26] <ogra_cmpc> well, on this HW slow == dying
[15:26] <ogra_cmpc> to much disk IO and the system gets totally unresponsive
[15:27] <ogra_cmpc> the probs with teh oom scheduler only showed in ltsp for me
[15:27] <asac> ogra_cmpc: ltsp is even less memory or what?
[15:27] <ogra_cmpc> can be, yes
[15:27] <ogra_cmpc> classmate has 256M
[15:28] <ogra_cmpc> but runs the whole sys and desktop in this amount
[15:28] <ogra_cmpc> ltsp can run with 48M
[15:28] <ogra_cmpc> and ojnly runs teh X server and login manager
[15:29] <ogra_cmpc> *but* the habit of ff using (and X allowing the client to) up all available ram on teh Xserver makes teh clients hardlock
[15:29] <ogra_cmpc> on the classmate i dont run out of ram, but being able to tweak the cache settings might also resolve a lot
[15:30] <iwj> cjwatson: Would you be able to get me copies of glibc-2.6.1-1ubuntu1.{dsc,diff.gz} ?  They seem to be before my archived snapshots window.
[15:30] <iwj> glibc (2.6.1-1ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low
[15:30] <iwj>  -- Matthias Klose <doko@ubuntu.com>  Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:04:00 +0200
[15:30] <asac> ogra_cmpc: about:config ... search for cache
[15:30] <iwj> cjwatson: Or who should I ask ?
[15:30] <asac> ogra_cmpc: i assume you already did that ... didn't you?
[15:31] <asac> ogra_cmpc: e.g. browser.cache.disk.enable
[15:31] <asac> ogra_cmpc: there is even ... browser.cache.memory.enable
[15:31] <iwj> cjwatson: If it's easy then having 2.6.1-1ubuntu3 too would be useful.
[15:32] <asac> ogra_cmpc: looks like setting both to false should disable caching completely
[15:32] <doko> iwj: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/2.6.1-1ubuntu1 (and more general https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/) at the bottom of the page
[15:32] <iwj> cjwatson: Oh, if I URL-hack the source it works.
[15:32] <cjwatson> iwj: they should be fishable out of launchpad
[15:32] <pitti> iwj: get it from here: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/2.6.1-1ubuntu1
[15:32] <cjwatson> ... yes, as above :)
[15:32] <ogra_cmpc> asac: hmm, i'll try, thanks
[15:33] <iwj> I tried this https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/glibc/2.6.1-1ubuntu1
[15:33] <ogra_cmpc> midbrowser takes 3min to load planet as well here btw
[15:33] <iwj> and didn't spot `hardy' in the URL.
[15:33] <cjwatson> iwj: from the links at the top of /ubuntu/+source/glibc ?
[15:33] <iwj> cjwatson: Yes.
[15:33] <cjwatson> if you use the links further down (in the big list rather than the what's-in-each-release table) then it works
[15:33] <iwj> I picked the top one and edited the URL.
[15:34] <iwj> Indeed.
[15:35] <asac> ogra_cmpc: let me know if it works/helps
[15:42] <manchicken> Anybody sighted mvo this morning?
[15:42] <Hobbsee> manchicken: he went mad, so we shot him.
[15:43] <asac> manchicken: iirc, he is not available today
[15:44] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Nooooo!  He's our only hope for libapt.
[15:44] <Hobbsee> manchicken: too bad.  it's your job, now.
[15:44] <manchicken> Is there anybody else who knows this stupid library?
[15:44]  * Hobbsee doesnt,b ut wants to learn it at some point
[15:45] <asac> manchicken: is it really urgent? otherwise he will probably be avail tomorrow.
[15:45] <manchicken> We should force nixternal to document it.
[15:45] <Hobbsee> sounds good.  voluntell him to
[15:45] <manchicken> asac: I'm just trying to work on but #104182.
[15:46] <asac> bug #104182
[15:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 104182 in adept "Adept allows removal of essential packages without warning" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/104182
[15:46] <manchicken> asac: Much thanks.
[15:46] <manchicken> asac: If you read my second-to-last comment, I think that if left unchecked this could pose a bit of a script-kiddie risk
[15:50] <asac> manchicken: i agree that this is a bug ... but security? ... no i don't think so.
[15:51] <manchicken> asac: I didn't say security for sure, I just said that I think I can see how it would be a low but still somewhat potential security risk.
[15:52] <manchicken> asac: You read my terribly clever script-kiddie scenario?
[15:53] <manchicken> Aww, weak.  My emacs issue got bumped to debian.
[15:53] <asac> well ... if users execute a script they get from a 3rd party with sudo ... they risk more than just loosing libc ;)
[15:53] <manchicken> Yes.
[15:54] <manchicken> Except that scripts can actually execute themselves with sudo, so if the user didn't read the script (because maybe they don't know how to read scripts) they're at just as much risk as the unwise who intentionally execute scripts as sudo.
[15:54] <manchicken> All they'd have to do is run it.
[15:55] <saispo> xen ubuntu kernel have a git repository ?
[15:55] <manchicken> We're targetting not only folks like ourselves with our distro, but we're also targeting the average desktop user... so we kinda need to keep their experience level in mind.
[16:09] <pitti> ajmitch: FYI, I merged tzdata and uploaded it (in the queue now)
[16:16] <pitti> seb128: all gutsy-proposed updates except of pango accepted
[16:16] <pitti> doko: you had a question/concern about the pango update? it's in gutsy-proposed now
[16:17] <doko> pitti: I'm happy if OOo still works. this should be tested
[16:17] <pitti> seb128: ^ did you try this?
[16:19] <pitti> the patches look reasonably straightforward and isolated, but a test can't hurt, right
[16:24] <asac> please test FF as well
[16:24] <asac> (for pango updates)
[16:25] <asac> seb128: ^^
[16:38] <seb128> pitti, doko, asac: isn't the purpose or proposed to get testing because sending things to update?
[16:38] <seb128> s/or/of
[16:39] <pitti> seb128: right, but it should be tested before, too :)
[16:39] <seb128> pitti: do I look like somebody who randomly upload things without testing ? ;-)
[16:39] <asac> seb128: yes .... i just want to be sure. do we have any figures on how many people participate in testing proposed?
[16:39] <seb128> asac: no idea
[16:39] <asac> seb128: definitly ;)
[16:39] <seb128> heh!
[16:40] <pitti> seb128: no, you don't, and I wasn't implying you were; doko just raised a "*mumble* pango please ask me before" some days ago
[16:40] <seb128> pitti: I do run most of the updates for some time before uploading even to unstable distros, especially base libs
[16:40] <seb128> pitti: ok, I've read the diff, look to upstream bugs opened since the new version and tested locally
[16:40] <pitti> seb128: I can take that as "yes, ffox and OO.o still work with that pango" :)
[16:40] <seb128> pitti: now feel free to deal with doko request the way you prefer ;-)
[16:40] <asac> pitti: ;)
[16:41] <seb128> pitti: yes
[16:41] <ogra_cmpc> asac: thanks disabling the disk cache helped a little bit though i just discovered errors from teh ralink driver here, might be related
[16:41] <pitti> seb128: /me hugs seb128, thanks
[16:41] <seb128> for my usecase of those, which means basic testing
[16:41] <seb128> since I'm neither a firefox or openoffice fanboy
[16:41] <asac> ogra_cmpc: which cache did you disable?
[16:41] <asac> memory + disc ... or just disc?
[16:41] <seb128> I just open and randomly click and load some examples
[16:42]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[16:43] <ogra_cmpc> asac: since my probs are mainly disk related and i have enough ramj i disabled the disk cache ... planet loads in a usable speed now
[16:43] <asac> ogra_cmpc: ok ... if you get oom after some browsing try to turn of memory cache as well
[16:43] <asac> ogra_cmpc: try that for your ltsp issues
[16:44] <ogra_cmpc> asac: i'll try in ltsp
[16:44] <asac> ogra_cmpc: hopefully it will release x server resources for you as well
[16:44] <ogra_cmpc> i dont expect that i'll hit oom on the classmate though
[16:45] <ogra_cmpc> (the final image will have a ulimit for memory anyway )
[16:50] <iwj> Are we expecting recent security updates to have broken ipw3945 somehow ?
[16:51] <Hobbsee> iwj: no?
[16:58]  * agoliveira feels fortunate. Never had an issue with ipw3945
[16:58] <iwj> This is my Mum's laptop which has mysteriously stopped working.
[17:06] <bdmurray> Riddell: I haven't see the new Kopete in gutsy-proposed.  Do you know where it is?
[17:06] <Riddell> bdmurray: it's actually kdelibs that got updated
[17:06] <Riddell> (twice)
[17:08] <Riddell> bdmurray: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdelibs/+bug/153500 and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdelibs/+bug/155144
[17:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153500 in kdelibs "Kopete crashes on startup" [High,Fix committed]
[17:08] <iwj> Hmm, wired connection maybe not working either.  I blame network-mangler.
[17:09] <Riddell> bdmurray: also https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt-x11-free/+bug/145709
[17:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145709 in qt-x11-free "7.10: Qt3 /etc/qt3/qtrc owner root result in ugly appearance" [Undecided,In progress]
[17:16] <Riddell> bdmurray: and finally https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adept/+bug/153889
[17:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153889 in adept "feisty dist upgrade check does not work" [High,In progress]
[17:17] <bdmurray> I'll see what I can do today
[17:30] <StevenK> ogra_cmp1: midbrowser
[17:30] <StevenK> Er, gah
[17:30] <ogra_cmp1> heh
[17:31] <ogra_cmp1> thanks
[17:35] <asac> iwj: feisty?
[17:46] <iwj> asac: t
[17:46] <iwj> asac: I discovered it was the hardware kill switch.  This is very hard to debug remotely and although the driver knows what's happened it doesn't tell the user.  I was able to fix it quite quickly after we got the machine connected with a wire and I could log in.
[17:47] <iwj> asac: I've filed bug 155867.  (Not sure the package is right.)
[17:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155867 in network-manager "kill switch induces mystifying failure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155867
[17:50] <mjg59> iwj: The mechanism used to provide information about kill switch status is currently non-standard across different wireless drivers
[17:50] <pitti> mjg59: new hal 0.5.10 only supports pm-utils; do we want to go that route, too?
[17:50] <mjg59> Yes
[17:50] <iwj> mjg59: Joy.
[17:51] <pitti> mjg59: Debian does that, too
[17:51] <iwj> mjg59: But thanks for the info :-).
[17:51] <mjg59> pitti: Hurrah
[17:51] <mjg59> Then we can gradually kill off acpi-support
[17:51] <sladen> poor acpi-support
[17:51] <sladen> so we start working on a whole new sets of laptop hacks now?
[17:52] <mjg59> No, we merge them over
[17:55] <pitti> mjg59: and pmi, too, right?
[17:55] <mjg59> Yeah
[17:55] <mjg59> As long as stuff's calling hal, nothing should breaj
[17:55] <unggnu> hi all
[17:56] <ogra_cmp1> what about policykit ?
[17:56] <ogra_cmp1> will we use that too now ?
[17:56] <pitti> not in my initial merge at least
[17:56] <pitti> (I'm currently doing the hal merge to 0.5.10, fresh in incoming :) )
[17:56] <unggnu> I have a question for closing bugs. There are many bug reports according to package 915resolution. Most of them should be fixed through new Intel driver in Gutsy. Should they be marked as Fix released since 915resolution most likely has the same problem or invalid because it works with another version?
[17:56] <ogra_cmp1> well, i would suspect pm-utils might need i9t
[17:57] <pitti> I'm still not 100% confident about it, and need to review it
[17:57] <pitti> ogra_cmp1: why should it?
[17:57] <ogra_cmp1> no idea just because they were developed hand in hand ?
[17:57] <ogra_cmp1> (or do i mix up stuff ?)
[17:57] <pitti> ogra_cmp1: if Debian enables it, I'll do as well, of course
[17:57] <pitti> ogra_cmp1: consolekit will be important for hardy's revamped hardware detection (but we have that already)
[17:58] <ogra_cmp1> yeah, i fear that in ltsp already
[17:58] <ogra_cmp1> getting ldm consolekit aware will surely be fun :P
[17:59] <pitti> wow, with the removal of hal-device-manager, our hal delta to Debian shrinks to something actually manageable \o/
[18:00] <ogra_cmp1> what happened to h-d-m ?
[18:00] <pitti> ogra_cmp1: there's a new independent project, gnome-device-manager
[18:00] <ogra_cmp1> cool
[18:02] <daSkreech> Hello
[18:02] <daSkreech> Who should I speak to about smolt?
[18:06] <persia> daSkreech: It depends on what you want to do.  If you need help with smolt, you want #ubuntu.  If there are bugs in smolt, you want #ubuntu-bugs.  If you are patching or packaging smolt, please ask a specific question: many people here can help.  If you would like smolt to be packaged, please open a bug in launchpad.
[18:07] <daSkreech> Is ubuntu making any plans to align itself with the smolt project?
[18:08] <sladen> sounds very the Ubuntu hardware database
[18:08] <ogra_cmp1> daSkreech: we already have a hardware db but i think there are efforts going on between the teams
[18:08] <ogra_cmp1> daSkreech: cr3 is on teh hdwb team
[18:08] <daSkreech> hi cr3
[18:09] <daSkreech> ogra_cmp1: Yes but wouldn't a hwdb that pulls info from multiple distros be more useful ?
[18:10] <ogra_cmp1> daSkreech: well, depends on the purpose ... i think there is data where it makes sense qand data where it doesnt
[18:10] <daSkreech> ogra_cmp1: true but ubuntu can run it's own staging smolt server for where it doesn't make sense
[18:16] <keescook> slangasek: heh, I guess my (redundant) +1 was about 8 hours too late.
[18:17] <ogra_cmp1> at least it was something positive :)
[18:20]  * slangasek chuckles
[18:24] <infinity> vorlon: Do you nick hilight "correctly" here, for people who refuse to acknowlege your newfound professionalism?
[18:25] <Nafallo> oooh... infinity :-)
[18:26] <jdong> pitti: hey, you gotta sec? ScottK and I would like to talk to you about SRU'ing azureus...
[18:26] <pitti> jdong: can you please mail me? I need to run in 5 minutes
[18:26] <Nafallo> infinity: mail delivery fixed now? :-)
[18:26] <ScottK> jdong: Please cc me on the mail.
[18:27] <jdong> ok
[18:28] <infinity> Nafallo: Been doing Real Work first, while I fix mail stuff in the background...
[18:29] <infinity> Nafallo: (tomorrow, I imagine, it'll stop bouncing, cause I'll get around to cleaning out the mess)
[18:29] <asac> iwj: the kill switch issue is known and is a driver bug
[18:29] <Nafallo> infinity: kewl. screwed our ticketer a bit ;-)
[18:30] <infinity> Nafallo: I live to give.  Or annoy.  Whichever.
[18:30] <asac> iwj: bug 121415
[18:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121415 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "[gutsy] ipw3945-based wireless doesn't work after booting with wireless switch off" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/121415
[18:30] <Nafallo> infinity: :-)
[18:30] <infinity> Nafallo: If my bouncing mail resulted in finding bugs in peoples mailers (namely, the fatal flaw of not realising that sometimes mail doesn't actually get there), then I did well. :)
[18:31] <Nafallo> infinity: hehe. it was more the amount of notices about it not being able to deliver ;-)
[18:35] <slangasek> infinity: yes... :)
[18:38] <infinity> vorlon: Excellent.
[18:55] <slangasek> keescook: I think there's a blog post hiding in there, btw.  "It only took a weekend for me to be accepted as a MOTU, why did it take two whole months for me to get a Debian account?  I guess Debian doesn't care about new contributors, I should just work on Ubuntu instead." >:)
[18:58] <lamego> slangasek, getting such conclusions about the lack of "care" from Debian is a bit excessive don't you think ?
[19:02] <slangasek> lamego: sorry, I suppose the context for that comment is not obvious to everyone here, but I've been a Debian developer for almost 7 years... :)
[19:02] <cr3> daSkreech: hi there
[19:02] <lamego> sorry, just caught that phrase, and it did seem a bit rude
[19:03] <daSkreech> cr3: hello
[19:03] <daSkreech> cr3: Whats up in the hardware world of ubuntu?
[19:04] <cr3> daSkreech: we're working very hard towards having a practical interface for providing hardware compatibility information with ubuntu
[19:05] <Riddell> what's the part of ubuntu that detects newly inserted printers?
[19:05] <slangasek> Riddell: hal+cups?
[19:06] <cr3> daSkreech: you mentionned earlier whether we might consider aligning ourselves with smolt and there's no such plans right now. that is something I've had in mind though, but it's too early to know for sure
[19:06] <daSkreech> cr3: what does it depend on?
[19:07] <Riddell> slangasek: I mean the bit that pops up a UI
[19:08] <cr3> daSkreech: it currently depends on a strict XML format which can be generated by the hwtest project on Launchpad or by any other tool
[19:09] <slangasek> Riddell: well, hal-cups-utils seems to be the package that triggers the pop-up, by sending a dbus message
[19:09] <slangasek> Riddell: I don't know what catches it though
[19:09] <daSkreech> cr3: ubuntu does or smolt does?
[19:09] <slangasek> (com.redhat.NewPrinterNotification)
[19:13] <daSkreech> cr3: Sorry the question was what would ubuntu using smolt depend on?
[19:16] <daSkreech> hi ompaul
[19:16] <ompaul> hi
[19:18] <cr3> daSkreech: in using smolt, do you mean posting to the smolt daemon or using the smolt information gathering library?
[19:19] <daSkreech> Well If you were posting to the smolt daemon you could run a ubuntu hosted staging server then pass on generally useful info to the "main" smolt gathering library
[19:20] <daSkreech> cr3: so I guess posting to the smolt daemon
[19:20] <daSkreech> since I don't know that there are any restrictions to using the gathered information already
[19:21] <keescook> slangasek: heh.  no kidding, I'm still waiting for my DD-ness.  :)
[19:22] <cr3> daSkreech: the posting could be done either server side from Launchpad or client side from hwtest. I don't know about the former but the latter can easily be extended to post the information wherever and also extended to gather whatever additional information might be required from smolt.
[19:23] <daSkreech> cr3: so smolt should be an option for people in hardy?
[19:32] <cr3> daSkreech: if you write it, we could probably make a package for extending hwtest to post to smolt :)
[19:32] <cr3> daSkreech: otherwise, I can't make any promises
[19:33] <daSkreech> that would be nice :)
[21:30] <xipietotec> anyone know why firefox is kerning fonts weirdly? I was allready using the libfreetype6 patches in feisty, and had no problem, now since upgrading to gutsy, my font literally gets letters kerned over eachother.
[21:38] <slangasek> xipietotec: yes, that's bug #37828
[21:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 37828 in firefox "Text rendered incorrectly in presence of ligatures and justified text" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/37828
[21:39] <Chipzz> holy fsckeroni
[21:39] <Chipzz> firefox just went ballestic on me
[21:39] <Chipzz> decided it needed to grow 80MB in pixmaps just by scrolling :(
[21:43] <xipietotec> why would they go back to doing things the broken way in gutsy? even if the way in feisty was somewhat hackish, it didn't really cause any problems
[21:46] <xipietotec> oddly, it only happens on some pages, and using the liberation fonts it don't happen
[21:48] <slangasek> yes, because not all fonts have ligatures
[21:48] <slangasek> it wasn't a problem in feisty because the font upstream made specific changes to accomodate the firefox bug
[21:48] <slangasek> and decided not to do that anymore in the gutsy timeframe
[21:49] <juliux> hi
[21:49] <juliux> why i cant read https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/155545 ?
[21:51] <geser> juliux: I guess because it got marked private (for whatever reason)
[21:51] <juliux> geser, so nobody can read this bug?
[21:52] <geser> juliux: the security team and subscribed persons (incl. the reporter)
[21:52] <juliux> geser, ok
[21:52] <xipietotec> juliux, I suppose there are reasons to make a bug private, e.g., if you found a security flaw that other people would be unlikely to exploit or discover without your knowledge, that's a good reason to keep quiet about it until a fix.
[21:52] <Keybuk> oops, my nipple just fell off
[21:52] <lifeless> did it hurt ?
[21:53] <lifeless> and btw, put yourself on quotes :)
[21:53] <Keybuk> lol
[21:53] <Keybuk> no
[21:53] <juliux> xipietotec, geser thanks
[21:53] <cjwatson_> xipietotec: often happens by accident too (reporter checks the checkbox "this is a security vulnerability" either by mistake or because it's a tickybox)
[22:08] <bryce> ogasawara: bug 149639 could probably use more triaging attention; we bumped it to kernel from X since the user is having kernel panics rather than X crashes.  Probably needs a better title too.
[22:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149639 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Xorg crashes very frequently" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149639
[22:08] <ogasawara> bryce: ok, I'll take a look
[22:23] <manchicken> Hmm... no mvo.
[22:24] <Keybuk> holiday today
[22:30] <juliux> manchicken, mvo had to work last saturday;)
[22:30] <Keybuk> juliux: hey, he wanted to work!
[22:30] <Keybuk> in fact, he demanded he be aloud to work :p
[22:31] <juliux> Keybuk, i think forced him to work on saturday;)
[22:31] <juliux> Keybuk, he was at ubucon with an ubuntu devel talk;9
[22:56] <goobsof2> I'm running ubuntu feisty, and I can't download the dependencies to build openssh-client.  Can someone help me?
[22:57] <goobsof2> sudo apt-get build-dep openssh-client
[22:57] <goobsof2> E: Build-dependencies for openssh-client could not be satisfied.
[23:06] <robertj_> can someone help me out with some google juice: what is the blinking _ called in the terminal?
[23:06] <Robot101> cursor?
[23:08]  * robertj_ smacks head
[23:09] <tonyyarusso> Who maintains the debian installer for the alternate CD these days?  I know cjwatson used to, but I thought I heard he was passing it off now.
[23:09] <slangasek> I haven't heard that
[23:09] <slangasek> I have seen him doing uploads
[23:11] <tonyyarusso> Oh.  All righty then.  I'll still harass him with feature requests until he tells me otherwise then.  :P
[23:18] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/155987 is what I wanted to point out :)
[23:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155987 in debian-installer "Installer doesn't support mounting existing encryption volumes" [Undecided,New]
[23:48] <cjwatson> goobsof2: you have mail
[23:49] <cjwatson> tonyyarusso: d-i is modular, so I sort of hope that somebody other than me can take care of the encryption bits ...
[23:49] <cjwatson> there's quite a lot of d-i to take care of :)
[23:49] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: Makes sense.  Any idea who was responsible for adding the encryption stuff upstream in Debian?
[23:50] <cjwatson> tonyyarusso: David Härdeman and Max Voxeler
[23:50] <cjwatson> (see the partman-crypto changelog)
[23:50] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: Do they have LP accounts I can subscribe?
[23:51] <cjwatson> I have no idea. I'd mail them
[23:51] <tonyyarusso> Ok, will do.
[23:51] <goobsof2> You know I was actually drilling down just as you suggested and it seems I've got a bogus version of libcairo2.  1.4.10-1turner3~feisty0.1 instead of 1.4.2-0ubuntu1.
[23:51] <goobsof2> libcairo2-dev: Depends: libcairo2 (= 1.4.2-0ubuntu1) but 1.4.10-1turner3~feisty0.1 is to be installed
[23:52] <goobsof2> I'm trying to figure out how I can replace that one package without un-installing everything that it depends on.
[23:52] <cjwatson> goobsof2: sudo apt-get install libcairo2/feisty # ?
[23:53] <cjwatson> possibly with --reinstall
[23:53] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: is that changelog in the debian-installer package, or elsewhere?
[23:53] <cjwatson> tonyyarusso: in the partman-crypto source package
[23:53] <cjwatson> debian-installer is just the build system
[23:54] <goobsof2> genious.  That's a ton.  Now it all works.
[23:54] <cjwatson> goobsof2: good stuff
[23:54] <tonyyarusso> doh
[23:54]  * tonyyarusso enables source packages
[23:54] <cjwatson> tonyyarusso: though if you're doing serious work on d-i then it's best to have a full upstream checkout: svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/d-i/trunk
[23:54] <goobsof2> I didn't even know about that install syntax...
[23:54] <cjwatson> then it's in packages/partman/partman-crypto/
[23:55] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: I don't know enough to do work - just reporting
[23:55] <cjwatson> tonyyarusso: in fact, it might be better to forward it as a Debian bug
[23:55] <cjwatson> and then add a bug watch to the LP bug
[23:56] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson: good point