[00:07] <porthose> Would a kind over worked MOTU please close Bug #134342.  This package has been accepted into debian and is no longer valid.  Thanks
[00:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134342 in ubuntu "[needs packaging] Themeampache" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134342
[00:08] <bmk789> lauchazombie: so your wanting to contribute to ubuntu but dont know programming?
[00:08] <lauchazombie> i have a bit of what i learn reading books
[00:08] <lauchazombie> like c for dummies and staff but i never really made something
[00:09] <bmk789> well im in the same boat with you
[00:09] <bmk789> but theres plenty of other thing you can do to contribute without programming
[00:09] <bmk789> how long have you been using ubuntu?
[00:09] <lauchazombie> like?
[00:10] <lauchazombie> well im on about 2 years
[00:10] <lauchazombie> and i had used other distros
[00:10] <bmk789> huh, same here
[00:10] <lauchazombie> so bmk789 how do can i help?
[00:11] <bmk789> you can hand out ubuntu CDs to friends, family, strangers you meet shopping for computers in best buy, you can submit bugs to launchpad, and help out newer users on the forums and IRC
[00:11] <imbrandon> lauchazombie: you can do some packageing and fix bugs ( small ones A) from launchpad with little/no programing
[00:11] <bmk789> and theres a documentation group i think
 you can hand out ubuntu CDs to friends, family, strangers you meet shopping for computers in best buy, you can submit bugs to launchpad, and help out newer users on the forums and IRC <---- well im really in to difussion in my college for example not only ubuntu free software in general
[00:13] <TheMuso> tiagoboldt: Did you ask ScottK whether he was ok with you doing one of his merges?
[00:14] <tiagoboldt> TheMuso, he started by helping me, than he had to leave and norsetto helped me finishing it
[00:14] <tiagoboldt> I'm not sure if it is 100% ok, but a sure hope it is:)
[00:15] <tiagoboldt> is there any problem TheMuso ?
[00:17] <TheMuso> tiagoboldt: As long as he was ok with you doing it, thats fine.
[00:18] <tiagoboldt> :)
[00:24] <jdong> do I have to subscribe someone to a universe SRU candidate before motu-uvf is aware?
[00:24] <jdong> superm1: btw thanks for taking a look at the debdiff for me
[00:25] <superm1> jdong, no prob.  you can subscribe motu-uvf
[00:25] <jdong> ok
[00:25] <superm1> jdong, and i saw ScottK mention in here that he has a +1 for it, but i'd like him to leave that on the bug before i'll upload
[00:25] <superm1> and of course fix those two things i mentioned :)
[00:26] <jdong> superm1: will do; my .debdiff was designed with hardy in mind, as I explained in a follow up to your comment
[00:26] <superm1> ah didn't see.
[00:26] <jdong> I wanted to get a green-light from -uvf because I KNOW they'll be extremely uneasy about hte circumstances of this SRU candidate
[00:26] <jdong> (i.e. it's a completely different packaging)
[00:26] <superm1> but mind you azureus is very broke right now
[00:26] <superm1> so ltos of changes to make it work > doesn't work
[00:27] <superm1> (imo)
[00:27] <superm1> jdong, i'll follow up with you tomorrow or so, i've got to run errands for multiple hours this evening.
[00:27] <jdong> superm1: I tried to express the same reasoning :)
[00:27] <jdong> superm1: ok, thanks for you help
[00:28] <bmk789> i thought azureus only needed the 2.5.04 jar?
[00:30] <jdong> bmk789: you mean replacing Azureus2.jar from upstream?
[00:31] <bmk789> yes
[00:31] <jdong> bmk789: that's a hackjob band-aid
[00:31] <jdong> bmk789: the core problem is that our patches + a GCJ compiler = producing noncompliant Azureus2.jar
[00:31] <jdong> bmk789: correct fix is the build Azureus2.jar via icedtea, a non-broken compiler
[00:32] <bmk789> ah i see
[00:32] <jdong> bmk789: shipping Azureus2.jar from upstream is like shipping a Fedora tarball of openoffice.org in a deb because openoffice was broken
[00:32] <jdong> totally hackish and wrong solution that just happens to work
[00:35]  * imbrandon strenthens his dislike for java apps
[00:36] <jdong> imbrandon: meh I think its future looks better thanks to a FOSS java chain that's not crap
[00:36] <bmk789> openoffice isnt in java is it?
[00:36] <jdong> no offense to GCJ folks who have poured their heart and time into the product
[00:36] <jdong> bmk789: parts of it
[00:36] <jdong> bmk789: most multimedia abilities depend on a Java stack
[00:36] <imbrandon> jdong: what about compiling with blackdown, i thought i was justa java fork
[00:37] <jdong> imbrandon: last time I checked, blackdown stopped at 1.4.x?
[00:37] <imbrandon> and?
[00:37] <jdong> Azureus uses Java 1.5 language features
[00:37] <imbrandon> ah
[00:38] <zul> i cant spell tonight more so than usual
[00:40] <imbrandon> jdong: looks like your on the path to multiverse then ;)
[00:41] <jdong> imbrandon: icedtea is universe
[00:41] <imbrandon> ahh
[00:41] <jdong> which works out perfectly, as azureus is universe too :)
[00:42] <jdong> imbrandon: earlier today I was considering multiverse demotion, but that wouldn't work apparently because the stupid java6-jdk package pops up an EULA that can't be accepted on the buildd's :D
[00:42] <imbrandon> well if a SRU wont fly alwasy you can just fix it for hardy ( the LTS ) and we can -backport it
[00:42] <imbrandon> jdong: ^
[00:42] <jdong> imbrandon: yeah, that's my failsafe :)
[00:43] <imbrandon> i've already got another -backport in the works and its not even built for hardy yet heh
[00:43] <bmk789> can someone recommend a good C development program?
[00:44] <imbrandon> bmk789: as in? like learn C development by example ?
[00:44] <bmk789> ya
[00:45] <imbrandon> hrm not right off, scour google, there is tons out there, but also going off your comments from earlier you know you dont have to program to package software correct? its a whole nother beaste
[00:45] <bmk789> really?
[00:46] <imbrandon> yea programing and packaging are totaly seperate, check out .....
[00:46] <imbrandon> !packageguide
[00:46] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[00:46] <bmk789> so im guessing packaging consists of downloading the code, compiling and building a deb?
[00:47] <imbrandon> yes, thats a really short version of it , but yea thats the simplistic basics
[00:47] <bmk789> ok thanks ill look into that
[00:47] <imbrandon> :)
[00:47] <imbrandon> if you need anything feel free to still poke us
[00:47] <imbrandon> but i sugest giving that url a once over
[00:48] <imbrandon> also there is a nice ( but old ) short primer by zonk on the IBM page
[00:48] <imbrandon> if you wanna look at it
[00:48] <imbrandon> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-debpkg.html
[00:48] <bmk789> this helps a lot, thanks
[00:49] <imbrandon> np
[00:51] <imbrandon> jdong: your still active on the -backports right ?
[00:54] <jdong> imbrandon: yeah
[00:54] <jdong> been a bit busy recently
[00:54] <jdong> schoolwork not treating me too well
[00:54] <jdong> but still active on the project
[00:55] <jdong> all this time I've still been meaning to want to do some MOTU work and qualify for MOTU....
[01:07] <imbrandon> jdong: hey install / test this for me ... http://ppa.launchpad.net/imbrandon/ubuntu/pool/universe/n/netsurf/netsurf_1.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1_i386.deb
[01:07] <jdong> imbrandon: what version of Ubuntu?
[01:07] <imbrandon> i'm gonna file a bug soon for gutsy -backport but want some other testers
[01:07] <imbrandon> gutsy
[01:08] <imbrandon> its in my repo if you wanna do it that way
[01:08] <imbrandon> x86_64 built too if your not on i386
[01:10] <imbrandon> jdong: are we still not allowed to do direct -backport uploads ? this should be a streight sync from debian lenny but dident make the autosync cutoff
[01:10] <imbrandon> i was hoping to fakesync it ( upload ) to -backports before the hardy opens
[01:10] <jdong> imbrandon: you're core-dev and backporter, you can do whatever you want :)
[01:10] <imbrandon> hahah i know i _CAN_ i was asking was it still frowned on
[01:11] <jdong> imbrandon: yeah, archive won't be too happy
[01:11] <imbrandon> k
[01:12] <imbrandon> its really a slick browser, html 4 and css2, just dosent have javascript support
[01:12] <imbrandon> ( some may like that lol , no ad's )
[01:13] <jdong> sounds cool
[01:15] <bmk789> would AMD64 packaging be of more demand than i386?
[01:17] <nxvl> tiagoboldt: are you done with the bug?
[01:18] <imbrandon> bmk789: the source packages are the same, the buildd's build for i386 x86_64 ppc ihppa etc
[01:18] <imbrandon> so you done really have to worry to much about it
[01:20] <tiagoboldt> nxvl, guess so
[01:29] <nxvl> how do i work with rc bugs?
[01:29] <nxvl> i'm on http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/
[01:30] <nxvl> and i found a FTBFS bug
[01:30] <nxvl> now i'm dgeting the code from ubuntu dsc
[01:30] <jdong> imbrandon: unless of course it's x264 in which case every arch rains bloody hell upon your suffering soul.... :)
[01:30] <nxvl> now do i need to open a bug on LP?
[01:31] <nxvl> and how do i add a comment on http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/
[01:48] <imbrandon> jdong: install work fine?
[01:49] <imbrandon> ... install & work ...
[01:49] <jdong> imbrandon: installed, lemme try running it
[01:49] <imbrandon> k
[01:51] <jdong> imbrandon: seems to work fine :)
[01:51] <imbrandon> kk, i'll file a backport then soonish
[03:00] <bluefoxicy> ... don't 64 bit libs belong in /lib64 <.<
[03:00]  * bluefoxicy has /lib64 -> /lib o_o
[03:00] <bluefoxicy> and a /lib32
[03:07] <RAOF_> bluefoxicy: On x86-64?  32bit libs belong in  lib32, and native libs (ie: 64bit libs) belong in /lib.  There's that debian multiarch document lying around on the net somewhere.
[03:07] <bluefoxicy> RAOF_:  I'm trying to get to google but my network is being horrible (awesome throughput, horrible actually-do-something) ... to verify against the FHS
[03:09] <bluefoxicy> 64 bytes from py-in-f99.google.com (64.233.167.99): icmp_seq=6 ttl=239 time=34.9 ms  <-- each being several seconds apart @_@
[03:11] <bluefoxicy> http://lists.debian.org/debian-glibc/2006/09/msg00113.html
[03:13] <RAOF> I was thinking of http://lackof.org/taggart/hacking/multiarch/ , but that's quite ooooold.
[03:13] <bluefoxicy> yes I'm trying to get to the current standard now.  My network is being super-crap.
[03:14] <bluefoxicy> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#LIB64  OK, this is wtf
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  Officially according to FHS (not Debian), x86-64 64-bit libs go in lib64 and 32-bit x86 libs go in lib
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  IA64 libs (intel Itanium) go in lib
[03:15] <bluefoxicy> which .... does not make sense.
[03:16] <bluefoxicy> well.  The rationale is that IA64 deprecates 32-bit so you shouldn't use 32-bit programs on IA64 (yeah, sure *cough* poor engineering *cough*)
[03:17] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  to be fair, every single Linux distro gets it wrong.  It's a Microsoft-style standard, i.e. the standard says X but everyone else does Y so we'll act like Y is the standard.
[03:17] <bluefoxicy> (in microsoft's case they make themselves "everyone else" and everyone just conforms to them)
[03:17] <RAOF> The Debian multiarch proposal looks moderatily sane.
[03:19] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  sane maybe.  What if I install a 32-bit .deb for i386 on a 64-bit system?
[03:19] <RAOF> But if *I* were writing a FHS document, I'd be stipulating that the most-native libs go in /usr/lib, and others go in /usr/libwhatever.
[03:19] <bluefoxicy> (which puts libraries in /lib)
[03:19] <lifeless> bluefoxicy: under multiarch they don't
[03:19] <RAOF> Indeed.  The put it in /usr/lib/i386-linux/
[03:19] <RAOF> s/the/they/
[03:19] <bluefoxicy> lifeless:  debs don't literally store the file system structure; or dpkg just automatically notices the structure and moves stuff around?
[03:20] <RAOF> bluefoxicy: Multiarch compliant .debs store stuff in /usr/lib/arch-os
[03:20] <lifeless> bluefoxicy: neither
[03:20] <RAOF> That won't prevent old, non-compliant debs from dancing all over your careful structure.
[03:21] <RAOF> Also, hi lifeless :)
[03:21] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  So if I install libogg on i386 ubuntu, it puts stuff in /usr/lib; but if I install the same exact .deb file on an x86-64 system, it puts it in /usr/lib/arch-os?
[03:21] <bluefoxicy> Or do I need to find a special deb
[03:22] <RAOF> bluefoxicy: You need to find a special deb.  One that's compliant to the multiarch standard.
[03:22] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  that's what I'm saying.  The point of /lib64 + /lib vs /lib and /lib32 was that you don't need to play games
[03:22] <Hobbsee> some villiage has lost their idiot....
[03:23] <bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  Yes but you're just on vacation right?  :)
[03:23] <Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: :P
[03:23] <Hobbsee> it's Yet Another Person Who Cannot Read For Shit.
[03:24] <Hobbsee> that's 4 this weekend, iirc.
[03:24] <RAOF> bluefoxicy: But you're going to have to play games *eventually*, and it's our responsibility (as distributions) to bend upstream stuff to our policy.
[03:24] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  mm?  AFAIK upstream ... doesn't particularly care, or some such.  I know the core samba project in particular follows /lib /lib64
[03:25] <RAOF> Yeah.  And so, if our policy is lib, lib32, then we need to make their stuff comply.
[03:26] <bluefoxicy> ... which is exactly what you do now >.>
[03:26]  * bluefoxicy shrugs.
[03:26] <RAOF> Incidentally, that Debian plan includes some backwards-compatibility stuff (/lib64 -> /usr/lib/x86-64-linux, /lib32 -> /usr/lib/i386-linux)
[03:26] <RAOF> Indeed.  It doesn't require upstream to follow the same policy as us.
[03:27] <bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ file /lib64 /lib32
[03:27] <bluefoxicy> /lib64: symbolic link to `/lib'
[03:27] <bluefoxicy> /lib32: directory
[03:27] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  not a symlink :)
[03:28] <bluefoxicy> (I don't have any such i386-linux anywhere)
[03:28] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  seems like you've failed to follow Debian policy too :>
[03:28] <RAOF> bluefoxicy: Oh, yeah.  Totally.  That mulitarch document isn't implemented yet.  It's a proposal.  Sorry if you were thinking I was talking about done work :)
[03:28] <bluefoxicy> ah
[03:30] <bluefoxicy> argh I have to reboot, networking on 64 bit is seriously broken by now >>
[03:31] <bluefoxicy> ... awesome, gutsy can't read my ipod either o.o
[03:32] <bluefoxicy> this is the most broken release yet >.> when I get network back I'm filing some bugs
[03:32] <bluefoxicy> rebooting.  LAter.
[03:43] <ScottK> jdong: SRU (after Hardy opens) is just up to the MOTU uploading and the archive admins.  I'd suggest discuss it with pitti during the week and see what he thinks.
[03:43] <bluefoxicy> crud it's a local issue with network
[03:43] <bluefoxicy> comcast is being trash.
[03:43] <jdong> ScottK: thanks
[03:44] <ScottK> bluefoxicy: That's their speciality.
[03:45] <bluefoxicy> ScottK:  if I ping google, it takes like 5-10 seconds between pings
[03:45] <bluefoxicy> but, the ping time is 35mS
[03:45] <ScottK> Probably DNS.
[03:45] <bluefoxicy> No, not dns.
[03:45] <ScottK> No?
[03:45] <bluefoxicy> it finds the IP address.
[03:46] <bluefoxicy> it's started to fix itself now though.  Hrm.
[03:46] <ScottK> If you ping the IP (rather than by name) is it faster?
[03:46] <bluefoxicy> no
[03:46] <ScottK> I was thinking DNS slow, not DNS down.
[03:46] <bluefoxicy> yeah, but ping only looks up the address once
[03:47] <ScottK> If pinging by IP is faster than by name, it's almost certainly a DNS problem.
[03:48] <bluefoxicy> ScottK:  are you under the belief that a single run of ping looks up the address in DNS before sending each packet?
[03:49] <ScottK> bluefoxicy: I've never really looked into it.  It's been my experience that when that happened, it was DNS.
[03:50] <bluefoxicy> hrm
[03:52] <bluefoxicy> ScottK:  I concede.  That seems to be it.  ping is poorly designed too (somehow if I ping something with multiple A records, it continuously pings the same address, yet each run of ping gets a different address...)
[03:52] <bluefoxicy> (try pinging irc.esper.net)
[03:52] <ScottK> Crap DNS is never a bad guess with Comcast anyway.
[03:53] <bluefoxicy> I'm using opendns
[03:53] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:53] <bluefoxicy> there'sstill the issue with my ipod.
[03:55]  * Hobbsee wonders why bluefoxicy didnt upgrade *before* this, and so then fix all of his problems while the archives were still open
[03:55] <bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  I wasn't on 64-bit >.> and didn't honestly notice ipod totally doesn't work.
[03:56] <bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  this is lol!
[03:57]  * Hobbsee suspects other people's ipods probably work
[03:57] <RAOF> bluefoxicy: Is it a crazy new ipod?
[03:57] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  60G iPod VIdeo
[03:58]  * bluefoxicy plugs in other usb drives with strange effects.
[03:58] <RAOF> Hm.  Probably new enough to have the new improved encrypted database then?
[03:58] <bluefoxicy> I plugged one in and then it suddenly recognized my ipod and the other drive
[03:58] <bluefoxicy> now it recognizes neither...
[03:59] <bluefoxicy> RAOF:  no, it's not recognizing it as a usb mass storage drive at all, mostly.
[03:59] <bluefoxicy> it has once, about 1 minute ago
[03:59] <RAOF> Ah, right.  Crazieness.
[03:59] <bluefoxicy> anyway enough of that
[04:00] <bluefoxicy> I'm on 64 bit specifically to test it out, re Gnash now actually works (somewhat)
[04:10] <bluefoxicy> [ 1963.577045] usb 2-5: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 21
[04:10] <bluefoxicy> [ 1968.681203] usb 2-5: device descriptor read/64, error -71
[04:10] <bluefoxicy> There we go.  After several minutes this turns into an attached iPod.
[04:11] <bluefoxicy> this is nowhere near enough information ;_;
[05:30] <Da_Clover> LongPointyStick awesome user :]
[05:37] <Da_Clover> hello Lure
[05:37] <Lure> hi Da_Clover
[05:38] <Da_Clover> Been a while since LaserJock_ payed a visit to motu
[05:41] <Da_Clover> good evening imbrandon
[05:49] <imbrandon> hello Da_Clover
[05:49]  * jdong whips out bzr and begins doing a crackpot 3-way merge between his azureus 2.5.0.4 packaging and 3.0.3.4 upstream :D
[05:49] <imbrandon> i thought azureus 3 was teh devil
[05:51] <jdong> imbrandon: the Linux version seems sane still....
[05:51] <RAOF> jdong: Woooo!  You'll prevent me from feeling guilty about not touching that pile of madness?
[05:53] <jdong> RAOF: hey, I already fixed azureus gutsy packages this afternoon, and I *NEVER* quit while I'm ahead!
[05:53] <jdong>  2836 files changed, 620438 insertions(+), 567426 deletions(-)
[05:53] <jdong> wh... what a beautiful diff.
[05:53] <StevenK> And when jdong feels the packaging of Azureus isn't crackful enough, he'll borrow crack from his own stock
[05:53] <imbrandon> lol
[05:53] <imbrandon> heya StevenK
[05:53]  * StevenK waves
[05:55]  * RAOF shores
[05:55] <jdong> [jdong@jdong:azureus/azureus-ubuntu]$ bzr merge ../azureus-3.0.3.4/
[05:56] <jdong> can it be that simple?
[05:56] <imbrandon> hrm Flash 9 for Solaris sparc and x86 , very cool, if only they would do a ppc linux build
[05:56] <superm1> my god jdong
[05:57] <superm1> jdong, you and RAOF and your crack :)
[05:57] <jdong> ooh, only two conflicts
[06:02] <RAOF> jdong: Surely you're only merging the debian directory?  Or what?  Do they ship a debian/?
[06:03] <jdong> RAOF: both Debian maintainer and I have modified a few files in debian/../, so I'm doing a bzr merge by importing 2.5.0.4, branching into 2.5.0.4-ubuntu and 3.0.3.4, then going into 2.5.0.4-ubuntu and merging from 3.0.3.4
[06:04]  * RAOF thought our azureus package wasn't actually based upon the Debian package at all.  Maybe this has changed.
[06:05] <jdong> RAOF: no you are correct, it wasn't, that was a change within the past 8 hours :)
[06:05] <jdong> RAOF: Ubuntu's package is down a hopeless road, I am rebasing off Debian and pulling patches from Mandriva
[06:05] <RAOF> Fair enough.  Is debian still doing crazy, crazy things?
[06:06] <RAOF> I seem to recall the maintainer decided that azureus was too cool to use the eclipse gtk bindings, so shipped his own build of them.  Or something like that.
[06:06] <jdong> RAOF: not anymore. New debian packaging is extremely sane
[06:07] <jdong> RAOF: (and before that was a legit problem, eclipse SWT that eclipse needs to build has slightly different API than the SWT that Azureus prefers)
[06:07] <RAOF> (1) Cool, and (2) Eh, I don't care.  It still made the packaging wierd and crazy.
[06:07] <RAOF> :)
[06:10] <jdong> RAOF: agreed; packaging is much less weird and crazy now... in fact, it's beautifully clean
[06:11] <RAOF> Yay.
[06:12] <RAOF> Thinking of crack, I'm going to need a hardy schroot.  Is it debootstrapable yet?  When do the archives open?
[06:13] <imbrandon> archives are there but they wont open for uploads untill the toolchain settles
[06:13] <StevenK> The archives will open when the toolchain is completly built and published.
[06:14] <imbrandon> i always wondered why they dont start that like one week before release
[06:14] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Maybe because there are more important things to do, like put a release out?
[06:15] <imbrandon> seems like both could be accomplished parallel
[06:15] <imbrandon> ];)
[06:15] <TheMuso> If you want to take someone from bugfixing/testing, sure.
[06:16] <StevenK> And make sure the release team have to worry about accepting stuff for two releases.
[06:16] <TheMuso> As it is, I'm pretty sure planning starts before the final release. I certainly know this happens for the kernel.
[06:16] <TheMuso> And I'd bet they're waiting on getting a new kernel in to bootstrap with.
[06:16] <TheMuso> StevenK: Indeed.
[06:17] <imbrandon> brb
[06:18] <jdong> urgh slight hackjob necessary
[06:19] <jdong> $ bzr branch azureus-ubuntu azureus-gutsy-i-gotta-have-crack
[06:20] <jdong> I have gone on a captain ahab type quest to get azureus 3 to build with swt 3.2
[06:20] <jdong> someone please stop me before I hurt myself
[06:20] <imbrandon> just have azureus be a meta-package for uTorent and wine
[06:21] <imbrandon> thats crack
[06:21] <jdong> lol
[06:26] <lauchazombie> oh all mighty motu's any of you would be kind enough and recommend me a c programming book?
[06:32] <pwnguin> nope
[06:32] <pwnguin> they're all terrible
[06:34] <jdong> bluefoxicy: I'm gonna push bzr branches of some azureus work to LP/~motu-torrent/azureus... the 2.5.0.4 branch, upstream sources, and also gonna push some fun experimental packaging of 3.0.3.4
[06:34] <jdong> err bluekuja rather
[06:35] <jdong> bluekuja: In order for 3.0.3.4 to actually work, we need to have SWT 3.3 which is in neither Debian nor Ubuntu... so I'm gonna hold off on that until the dust settles.
[06:35]  * pwnguin dies
[06:36] <pwnguin> people fixing Azureus?
[06:36] <jdong> pwnguin: Azureus is fixed :) and yeah I in my infinitely bad judgement stepped up to the plate :)
[06:38] <lauchazombie> pwnguin, =(
[06:39] <lauchazombie> yeah azureus is fixed, im using it right know thanks to the all might motu jdong
[06:41] <freakabcd> would anyone be able to package a newer version of octave-forge ?
[06:41] <freakabcd> the current version is the exact same one in feisty and it was old in feisty itself!
[07:12]  * TheMuso gets the meeting minutes out of the way for another three weeks or so.
[07:19] <dholbach> good morning
[07:19] <TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
[07:19] <Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
[07:20] <TheMuso> Hey Fujitsu.
[07:20] <dholbach> hey TheMuso, Fujitsu!
[08:10] <tonyyarusso> Is pitti, cjwatson, or anyone else who knows about the encryption-related options in the Gutsy installer around?
[08:24] <soren> tonyyarusso: What's up?
[08:25] <tonyyarusso> soren: I can't figure out how to use encryption in the manual option.
[08:25] <tonyyarusso> soren: I was able to designate the logical volume as "use as physical volume for encryption", but couldn't find what step I could designate that this volume should then be my /home.
[08:26] <tonyyarusso> (I want to encrypt /home and swap only)
[08:26] <soren> tonyyarusso: Ah.
[08:26] <soren> tonyyarusso: You create the partition, designate it as "use for encryption blah", and back in the menu where you see the different partitions, you'll see a new heading.
[08:27] <soren> Under that heading, there should be an entry you can now format and mount as /home.
[08:28] <tonyyarusso> soren: oh, a heading as in "Write partitions and set up LVM", that area?
[08:28] <soren> No.
[08:28] <soren> Further down.
[08:28] <soren> Hang on, I'll fire up the installer and guide you through it.
[08:29] <tonyyarusso> sweet, thanks
[08:31] <soren> Oh, you're right. At the very top, there's now a "configure encrypted volumes"
[08:31] <tonyyarusso> aah, ok
[08:31]  * tonyyarusso didn't look there apparently
[08:31] <soren> tonyyarusso: Choose that, type your passphrase, and you'll be back at that same menu again.
[08:31] <tonyyarusso> I was expecting it to be under the partition, like where filesystem stuff is setup
[08:31] <tonyyarusso> (but then I can be blind)
[08:31] <soren> ...Only this time you'll see a new "Encrypted volume (sda5_crypt) - blah"
[08:32] <soren> tonyyarusso: Right, that shows up after configuring the dm-crypt magic.
[08:32] <tonyyarusso> soren: My goal is to protect my documents, e-mails, and IM logs pretty much - do you know if any of that resides outside of /home?  (/tmp, /var)
[08:32] <soren> tonyyarusso: It all ought to be in /home.
[08:33] <tonyyarusso> soren: nifty
[08:34] <tonyyarusso> All right, here goes attempt #2.  biab
[08:40]  * TheMuso has an encrypted LVM partition with root, swap, and home on it for his notebook.
[08:59] <RAOF> Hm.  I've learnt two interesting things today:  (1) Opening 100 gnome-terminals will increase Compiz's shared-memory size by approximately 200Mb, and (2) X will crash before I can open 200 gnome terminals
[09:03] <_nand_> hi!
[09:03] <_nand_> I have a packaging question :)
[09:03] <_nand_> i'm building two packages from one source file
[09:03] <_nand_> one of them contains a daemon and some libs
[09:04] <_nand_> the other contains GUI clients
[09:04] <_nand_> my current pb is : ${shlibs:Depends} on the second package make a depend to the first package, but without a version number
[09:05] <_nand_> and if i put manually the depend with the version number (=${binary:Version}), well i get a duplicate :)
[09:05] <_nand_> someone got an idea on this?
[09:08]  * RAOF is not actually sure.
[09:08] <_nand_> W: ikevpn-manager: package-has-a-duplicate-relation depends: ikevpn, ikevpn (= 2.0.2-1), precisely
[09:09] <RAOF> Does it need such a hard dependency versioning (=binary-version)?
[09:09] <_nand_> For the major versions, the API will change
[09:10] <RAOF> My understanding is that the library's shlibs file should handle this.
[09:10] <RAOF> Also, for major versions, you'll have a different library name (libfoo2, libfoo3, etc
[09:11] <_nand_> afaik there might be some api change in some minor versions too (/me thinks of Qt...)
[09:12] <RAOF> As long as it doesn't break ABI, that's OK (I think.  Library packaging isn't my thing)
[09:12] <_nand_> ok. I check with the shlibs files... thanks!
[09:13] <RAOF> Debian library packaging guide may help: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
[09:14] <_nand_> the kind of document i love to read before getting to sleep :)
[09:14] <RAOF> :)
[09:25] <TheMuso> RAOF: Do we have a factoid for that?
[09:25] <RAOF> On the lib packaging guide?  Dunno.
[09:25] <RAOF> Might be a good idea, though :)
[09:26] <dholbach> StevenK: could you get your script from MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles into ubuntu-dev-tools for hardy?
[09:26] <dholbach> StevenK: that way I'd have an easier time to merge the page into the packagingguide
[09:29] <huats> morning all
[09:29] <huats> and happy day after the day after the day after the release day  :-)
[09:30] <xstasi> same to you :)
[09:41] <dholbach> hey huats :)
[09:41] <huats> hey dholbach
[09:43] <Hobbsee> hiya dholbach, huats, xstasi
[09:44] <huats> hey Hobbsee
[09:44] <huats> I am wondering what is the right way to fix bug 154472
[09:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154472 in conduit "Conduit's menu item is not HIG-compliant" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154472
[09:44] <dholbach> hiya Hobbsee
[09:44] <xstasi> hey Hobbsee :)
[09:44] <huats> to fix it, I have to edit a file that is already patch using dpatch in the package...
[09:45] <RAOF> Yay dpatch!
[09:45] <RAOF> huats: Learn to love dpatch-edit-patch :)
[09:45] <huats> RAOF: :-)
[09:45] <huats> RAOF dpatch is not really the pb
[09:46] <huats> the pb is more : can I apply 2 patchs to the same file ?
[09:46] <huats> RAOF: and I am sure I will love dpatch
[09:46] <huats> :-)
[09:46] <RAOF> Yes.  But what you actually want to do is to edit the existing patch, using dpatch-edit-patch :)
[09:46] <huats> RAOF:  ok
[09:46] <huats> RAOF: I'll give it a shot..
[09:46] <huats> RAOF: thanks
[09:47] <huats> doko: are you around ?
[09:48] <RAOF> huats: NP
[10:04] <geser> morning
[10:26] <dholbach> heya geser
[10:26] <freeflying> 5/quit
[10:27] <geser> Hi dholbach
[10:48] <tonyyarusso> soren: Still around?  I seem to be running into some bugs.
[10:48] <soren> tonyyarusso: Sure.
[10:49] <tonyyarusso> soren: Okay, #1: After configuring encrypted volumes, and going to choose the filesystem/mount point for them, there is no option for "format it" or "keep existing data", as there is for normal volumes.  It seems to give you no choice and force writing a filesystem to it regardless.
[10:50] <soren> tonyyarusso: Right.
[10:50] <soren> tonyyarusso: That strikes you as odd?
[10:51] <tonyyarusso> soren: Yes, because I like to share a common /home between two installations (stable and development), and this means that I would be unable to for instance test an Alpha install CD without wiping out my documents, rather than simply being able to add the existing partition to mount.
[10:52] <soren> tonyyarusso: Hm.
[10:52] <soren> tonyyarusso: You're going to have to do that manually.
[10:53] <soren> AFAIK, there's no way to make the installer recognise an existing dm-crypted volume.
[10:53] <Fujitsu> Hmm... Why not?
[10:53] <tonyyarusso> All right, adding it to my 8.04 wishlist.
[10:54] <soren> Fujitsu: Er... I'm not sure how to answer that question.
[10:54] <soren> Fujitsu: Because noone has bothered to implement it?
[10:54] <Fujitsu> So it's just that, rather than somebody deciding that it would be a bad idea?
[10:55] <tonyyarusso> soren: #2: When booting the system, the prompt for the passphrase for swap_crypt works fine.  However, when it gets to the point of trying to mount home_crypt, usplash breaks and it falls to the text-mode, with a prompt for "Enter LUKS passphrase" (which doesn't even mention which volume it's for, ie home_crypt - good thing I only have one to guess from)
[10:55] <soren> Fujitsu: I imagine so.
[10:57] <soren> tonyyarusso: File a bug about it.
[10:57]  * tonyyarusso nods
[10:58] <soren> tonyyarusso: Against cryptsetup.
[10:58]  * sladen was about to paste that into a bug report so it didn't get lost.  But it would be far preferable if tonyyarusso did it first hand :)
[10:59] <tonyyarusso> soren: #3 - worst of the list: #2 is the behavior after installing one system.  However, after going through the installation a second time, for the base which will become my unstable one, I seem to have broken that bit too, and now it drops to just a blinking cursor and I can't proceed past that in the boot.  No info on other consoles either.
[11:00] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am having problems with the PPA server it is Accepting my source files (I get an Email) but its not making the DEBS, I am only getting 1 mail informing me that the package was accepted, my PPA is at http://ppa.launchpad.net/stevenharperuk/ubuntu/pool/main/e/easycrypt/  can anyone check to see why its stopped making DEBS? thanks
[11:00] <tonyyarusso> soren: when you said to file it against cryptsetup, did you mean wrt #1 or #2?   (or both)
[11:00] <soren> tonyyarusso: #2 only. #1 is an installer thing.
[11:01] <Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: This is more appropriate for #launchpad, but I'll have a look now.
[11:01] <soren> StevenHarperUK: It's pending. https://edge.launchpad.net/~stevenharperuk/+archive/+build/412772
[11:01] <geser> StevenHarperUK: it's somewhere in the build-queue (Pending (1005))
[11:02] <Fujitsu> THe buildd queuer seems to be broken.
[11:02] <StevenHarperUK> The one I submitted last night 1.6-2 hasnt been done yet, that was Hours ago? is it broken?
[11:03] <soren> tonyyarusso: I'm a bit stumped at #3. How far in the boot process does it get?
[11:03] <StevenHarperUK> Also can you tell me how you found that handy URL you just gave me?
[11:03] <Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: It is broken, yes.
[11:04] <Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: https://edge.launchpad.net/~stevenharperuk/+archive
[11:04] <StevenHarperUK> Is there any Errors? Is it a probmlem with my codre
[11:04] <Fujitsu> It should all be linked from there.
[11:04] <StevenHarperUK> *code
[11:05] <StevenHarperUK> Thanks
[11:05] <Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: No, the Launchpad PPA build sequencer seems to have broken itself.
[11:05] <Fujitsu> I've asked to see if somebody can fix it.
[11:06] <StevenHarperUK> Right, it does appear that the Changes file is Missing (according to that page) is that me missing it or is it just Symptoms of the breakage?
[11:06] <Fujitsu> The builds shouldn't remain in Pending for more than a few minutes.
[11:07] <StevenHarperUK> Ah Right, thanks a lot for looking at it for me, I'll keep my eye on it: do you know if I will need to resumbit or up the version number and resubmit?
[11:08] <Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: No, the existing builds will start automagically once an admin fixes it.
[11:08] <StevenHarperUK> Thanks Again
[11:08] <geser> samarium is currently building packages queue 14 h ago
[11:08] <geser> samarium == the i386 ppa buildd
[11:32] <BugMaN> hi all
[11:42] <StevenHarperUK> Hi Again, Fujitsu, I can confirm that the PPA has done my Pacakage now, thanks for getting it sorted
[11:43] <Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: It was actually already sorted before I mentioned it, but everything was still catching up.
[11:45] <StevenHarperUK> Ta Anyway!
[12:18] <Hobbsee> NOTE TO ALL UBUNTU MOTU PEOPLE:  don't poach my merges.  if you wish to do a particular one, ask me first.  thankyou.  Punishment will be of the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™ variety.
[12:21] <minghua> Hobbsee: That's a strange use of "poach"...
[12:23] <Nafallo> NOTE TO *: Gajim is not to be merged. Hobbsee will do the punishment for me as a contractor-basis ;-).
[12:23] <Hobbsee> Nafallo: hahaha :)
[12:24] <Hobbsee> minghua: where poach
[12:24] <Hobbsee> is brutally taking, or something.  it's probably not that far off :
[12:27] <danboid> Hi!
[12:28] <danboid> I've tried submitting a bug/ package request to launchpad but all I get is 'There has been 1 error' but it doesn't say what!
[12:28] <Hobbsee> debian bug 407262
[12:28] <ubotu> Debian bug 407262 in pwsafe "pwsafe: 0.2.0-2+b1 removed X11 clipboard support" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/407262
[12:28] <Hobbsee> hiya
[12:28] <minghua> Hobbsee: dictionary.cambridge.org says it mainly means taking animals on someone else's land.
[12:28] <Fujitsu> minghua: Right, and this is taking merges on someone else's land.
[12:28] <Hobbsee> minghua: well, if merges can be regarded as an animal...
[12:28] <minghua> Hobbsee: Good analogy, but still strange. :-)
[12:29] <Fujitsu> I've seen it used in such a situation on many occasions.
[12:29] <minghua> I don't usually regard my packages as pets, after all.
[12:29] <danboid> why can't I submit a bug/ package request on launchpad anyone?
[12:29]  * Fujitsu feeds his packages.
[12:29] <Hobbsee>  libx11-dev and libxmu-dev
[12:29] <minghua> Fujitsu: with what? :-D
[12:29] <Hobbsee> excellent
[12:30] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What?
[12:30] <Fujitsu> minghua: Good question.
[12:30] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i can sync that :)
[12:30] <danboid> hello?
[12:30] <danboid> can anyone read this apart from me?
[12:30] <Hobbsee> danboid: we probably cant help you, we're not psychic.  you probably need to ask on #launchpad, and describe a bit more what's happening.
[12:31] <Hobbsee> like, where the 1 error is
[12:31] <danboid> Hobbsee: Aha! I didn't know there was #launchpad too- thanks!
[12:31] <Hobbsee> right.  done pwsafe.
[12:32] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Merging already?
[12:32] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's open, but i dont think it's wise to do much - most of the archive hasnt synced yet
[12:33] <Hobbsee> hence, i'm just putting in a couple of sync requests
[12:33] <Fujitsu> It's not open.
[12:33] <Hobbsee> yeah, but i can do bits knowing that everything will sync :)
[12:34] <Fujitsu> It's still doko-land.
[12:34] <Hobbsee> and at least now i know how much i have listed against me to do :)
[12:34] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[12:34] <Hobbsee> #kubuntu-devel says merge away, actually
[12:35]  * Fujitsu trusts #ubuntu-devel more.
[12:35] <Hobbsee> which doesnt mention merging :)
[12:35] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[12:35] <Hobbsee> geser: scons is your problem.  i was just the uploader :)
[13:00] <ScottK> Good morning all.
[13:00] <Fujitsu> Hey ScottK.
[13:01] <ScottK> Hello Fujitsu.
[13:01] <minghua> Morning ScottK.
[13:01] <ScottK> Hello minghua
[13:07] <proppy> hi
[13:12] <ScottK> dholbach: I'm reading my wiki mail and I noticed that you changed MOTU FAQ to point at the packaging guide discussion of patching (instead of MOTU school) and the in the Debian Python Modules Team page you added a link to the MOTU school patching page (the topic is a good one to add, thank BTW).  Just thought I'd point out the difference as I wasn't sure it was intentional.
[13:15] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Since you're still "Touched it last" on Azureus, I'm curious your thoughts on jdong's plan to sync merge from Debian and SRU the new version to Gutsy?
[13:16] <StevenK> ScottK: jdong has been dealing with Azureus
[13:17] <StevenK> Oh, never mind me, I can't read.
[13:17] <ScottK> StevenK: Yes.  I mentioned that above "jdong's plan to ...".  I'm curious of Fujitsu has an opinion beyond joy and rapture to get it off of him.
[13:17] <ScottK> No trouble.
[13:18] <proppy> ScottK: 155487 has been taken care off ?
[13:18] <proppy> ScottK: bug #155487
[13:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155487 in gramps "Please merge gramps (2.2.9-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155487
[13:19] <ScottK> someone is working on it.
[13:19] <proppy> ScottK: ok :)
[13:19] <ScottK> proppy: Do you want a merge to do?
[13:20] <proppy> I'm always up to learn something I don't know if someone is up to help me
[13:20] <proppy> ScottK:
[13:21] <ScottK> proppy: If you want to take a shot at mering openct, feel free.  I'll be around and can provide some help, but I've a bunch of other stuff I need to get done today, so it can't be extensive.
[13:28]  * Hobbsee has a sudden, very unpleasant thought.
[13:28]  * persia becomes curious
[13:28]  * ScottK tip-toes quietly to the other side of the room.
[13:28] <Hobbsee> ScottK: no, no, you can stay around now.  :P
[13:29] <ScottK> Well it pays to be careful.  Be close by when you have ideas can be hazardous.
[13:29] <ScottK> Be/Being
[13:29]  * Fujitsu returns.
[13:29] <Hobbsee> ScottK: two phrases: 1) lots of merges to be done.  2)  Kmos.
[13:29] <persia> ScottK: Sparks of inspiration lighting you on fire?
[13:29] <Fujitsu> ScottK: He can do anything he wants with it. Particularly taking it off my list.
[13:30] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: *g*
[13:30] <persia> Hobbsee: rejections?
[13:30] <Fujitsu> I will gladly kill it.
[13:30] <Hobbsee> persia: the thought of him trying to hijack a whole bunch of merges, doing the great majority of them incorrectly....
[13:31] <persia> Hobbsee: No upload.  No worries.
[13:31] <Hobbsee> persia: some...uh...people may well sponsor him.
[13:31] <Hobbsee> and the queue will probably explode again
[13:31] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Fortunately he at least can't upload.  He has committ access to at least 3 Debian svn repos now.  One of which he's spread havoc throughout.
[13:31] <Fujitsu> Eek.
[13:31] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah, i saw that mail.  although, we'll have to be careful what we import from debian.
[13:32] <ScottK> Fortunately (AFAIK) none of it was uploaded.
[13:32] <persia> The queue is easy to fix, but if there are sponsors, that's a different issue.
[13:32] <Hobbsee> ScottK: how the heck did he get commit access, anyway?
[13:32] <ScottK> I put the others on notice.
[13:32] <Hobbsee> persia: true.  mass mark of wontfix.
[13:32] <ScottK> Most of the Debian teams are pretty open.
[13:32] <Hobbsee> i presume dholbach has a plan
[13:32] <persia> ScottK: Some of it may have been uploaded.  I don't think the investigations are complete.
[13:32] <Hobbsee> ScottK: ahhh.  that's true, come to think of it
[13:32] <ScottK> persia: Urgh.
[13:33] <Fujitsu> persia: Do people not check diffs?
[13:33] <ScottK> Fujitsu: I think he meant from the Debian Games svn havoc.
[13:33] <persia> Fujitsu: Not really.  Debian SVN -> package seems more to be a sanity check + the last person's cool thing, rather than a real diff review, but I suspect it depends on the sponsor.
[13:34] <Fujitsu> persia: Eww.
[13:34] <Fujitsu> That sounds really wrong.
[13:34] <persia> Fujitsu: It's generally a good thing, as most members of the team are very concientious.
[13:34] <Fujitsu> Particularly if they're open enough to let him in..
[13:34] <Hobbsee> oh well, if he tries, there's going to be lots of blood.
[13:34] <ScottK> In the Debian Python teams it's a pretty thorough review.
[13:34] <persia> Yeah.  Well.  Reviews are getting tighter.
[13:34] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Sharpening the stick?
[13:35] <Hobbsee> if dholbach does nothing about it again, and jono says it's not a problem, and we're overreacting again, then...
[13:35] <persia> Hobbsee: That would only happen by accident.  Don't follow the path...
[13:35] <ScottK> persia: You've no idea how many times it's already happened.
[13:35] <persia> ScottK: No?
[13:35]  * Hobbsee wonders just how many people would consider walking off the project, if the highups refused to do anything about a repeating issue that doesnt just go away when they bury their heads in the sand.
[13:36] <persia> (Still, that way madness lies)
[13:36] <ScottK> No.  One of my lesson's learned is that I should have complained sooner, louder, and more publically.
[13:36] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the stick and the mace.
[13:36] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I already have (that's one of my major reasons for ramping down my Ubuntu work now the Gutsy is out).
[13:36] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Even better!
[13:37] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: feel free to sharpen your own weapons.
[13:37] <persia> So, just out of curiosity, why are we advertising merges when the archive isn't accepting anything yet?
[13:37] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Hey! That's *my* mace.
[13:37] <ScottK> persia: No reason they can't be prepared now.
[13:37] <Fujitsu> And isn't DaD deprecated?
[13:37] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Why would it be?
[13:37] <Hobbsee> persia: i think so people can get an idea of them, to know how much work it's going to take to do them
[13:37] <persia> ScottK: Right.  Just thinking about over-excitable sorts...
[13:37] <zul> Fujitsu: ergh?
[13:37] <Hobbsee> a whole lot of stuff hasnt synced yet, so i'm presuming stuff will need to rebuild.
[13:37] <ScottK> persia: Worst case it sits in unaccepted.  No big problem.
[13:37] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the plan was that they had a common UI.  however, i doubt that happened.
[13:37] <Fujitsu> I'm suure there was a decision a while ago that the DaD developers would talk to Keybuk about merging its functionality with MoM, and DaD would be discontinued.
[13:38]  * zul thinks people just have to be patient for hardy
[13:38] <lamont> Hobbsee: if it has 'ubuntu' in the version, then it won't sync... :-)
[13:38] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Yes, but not yet implemented.
[13:38] <persia> Fujitsu: My memory is that Dad was supposed to update to interface cleanly, and that's still pending.  I don't remember official Deprecation.  Feel free to add it to the agenda for 11/9.
[13:38] <Hobbsee> lamont: well, obviously.
[13:38]  * Fujitsu searches out old (TB?) logs.
[13:38] <lamont> Hobbsee: that's me: captain obvious
[13:38] <persia> TB?  I don't remember it getting beyond MOTU Meeting level
[13:39] <ScottK> Fujitsu: IMO when the MoM interface is updated, then (and it was MOTU meeting, I'm pretty sure).
[13:39] <Hobbsee> lamont: well, you can be the person who goes and does the killing.  thankyou.
[13:39] <Fujitsu> ScottK: It was, yes.
[13:39] <lamont> hrm... captain does imply military, doesn't it.
[13:40] <Hobbsee> lamont: it does.  and you're it :)
[13:40] <lamont> but I never served in the military...
[13:40] <ScottK> lamont: Not always http://tinyurl.com/2qqleo
[13:41] <StevenK> *SHIVER*
[13:41]  * lamont considers bitchslapping ScottK 
[13:41] <StevenK> lamont: I'll help
[13:41] <Fujitsu> StevenK: That's right, yeah.
[13:42] <persia> ScottK: That's an inappropriate use of the word "Captain"
[13:43] <ScottK> Well my kids loved those books when they were younger.  One of them read one to a woman who was very scared about donating blood and really helped here get through the experience on 9/11.
[13:43] <lamont> cool
[13:44] <zul> Hobbsee: can we call you captain my captain
[13:44] <Hobbsee> zul: no.  :P
[13:44] <ScottK> here/her anyway...
[13:45] <zul> Hobbsee: awwwww...im going to anyways ;)
[13:45] <StevenK> It's "Oh Captain, my captain" anyway
[13:50] <ScottK> Hobbsee: In general, I think it would be benificial to look at why experienced MOTUs are contributing less and see what could be done to attract them back (not just Kmos).
[13:51] <Hobbsee> ScottK: indeed.  i wonder how far jono got with doing that
[13:52]  * persia thinks raising the MOTU bar, and providing more support for contributors helps filter those not truly committed
[13:52] <ScottK> Dunno.  I've mentioned it to dholbach a few times and he seemed very focused on recruitment.
[13:52] <Hobbsee> oh you're fscking kidding me....
[13:52]  * Hobbsee looks at this bug
[13:53] <persia> 155788?
[13:53] <Fujitsu> bug #155788
[13:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155788 in kdebase "KDE blocks digital camera detection as usb-scsi disk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155788
[13:53] <Hobbsee> no, 7
[13:53] <Fujitsu> bug #155787
[13:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155787 in audacious-plugins "package audacious-plugins None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/audacious-plugins.list] failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/audacious/General/libcurl.so', which is also in package audacious-plugins-extra" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155787
[13:53] <persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  Despite our valiant last-minute efforts, the final release version still doesn't work right.
[13:53] <Fujitsu> Why is the version None!?
[13:54] <Hobbsee> persia: why the frick cant people do some *basic* testing?
[13:54] <Hobbsee> there's even a pbuilder hook for it!
[13:54] <Fujitsu> Somebody modified tha tpackage manually, didn't they?
[13:54] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i dont think so, i think it shipped broken
[13:55] <Hobbsee> oh hang on, this guy's aptcache is way out of date.
[13:55] <persia> Hobbsee: Umm...  That fix was tested by three different people, with results reported here.  It seems like there are additional circumstances that must be met: specifically that everything works fine with dpkg, but breaks with aptitude, etc.
[13:55] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: But look at the version string - it seems to be saying it doesn't match the one that should be installed, it has been modified since it was half-installed.
[13:56] <Hobbsee> Preparing to replace audacious-plugins 1.3.5-3ubuntu2 (using .../audacious-plugins_1.3.5-3ubuntu3_i386.deb) ...
[13:56] <persia> Fujitsu: Does the brokenness only happen for people who caught the broken upload (and the newer, fixed, upload doesn't clean up once the broken one is installed)?
[13:56] <Hobbsee> persia: it only happens with an aptcache a week or so out of date, i think.
[13:56] <persia> err.. half-installed
[13:56] <Hobbsee> we're at 4.1 now
[13:56] <Fujitsu> persia: I have no idea. But I've not seen a version string like that from apport before, so...
[13:56] <Hobbsee> this is 2 --> 3, which had no conflicts at all
[13:56] <minghua> !info audacious-plugins
[13:56] <ubotu> audacious-plugins: Base plugins for audacious. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.5-3ubuntu4 (gutsy), package size 706 kB, installed size 1368 kB
[13:57] <minghua> I assume -3ubuntu4 fixed that?
[13:57] <Hobbsee> minghua: 4.1 eventually did.
[13:57] <persia> I thought 2 -> 3 was to fix one install conflict, and 3 -> to fix the conflict fix.
[13:57] <Hobbsee> even 4 didnt fix it.
[13:57] <minghua> Hobbsee: Oh.  Where is it now?
[13:57]  * persia still doesn't see 4.1
[13:57] <Hobbsee> persia: it's in -proposed
[13:58] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[13:58] <Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/
[13:58] <Fujitsu> So we released it broken.
[13:58]  * persia thinks -proposed != released in any way
[13:58] <Fujitsu>  audacious-plugins (1.3.5-3ubuntu4.1) gutsy-proposed; urgency=low
[13:58] <Fujitsu>  .
[13:58] <Fujitsu>    * Fixed the Conflicts/Replaces to *really* unbreak the upgrade path (LP: #152918)
[13:58] <fernando> moin all
[13:58] <huats> morning fernando
[13:58] <Hobbsee> persia: yeah, but it's getting there.
[13:58] <ScottK> Yeah.  One attempt to fix it got uploaded at the bitter end, but apparently was wrong.
[13:58] <persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  The release was broken
[13:59] <persia> I think it was the 2nd to last universe upload (the last being icedtea)
[13:59] <ScottK> Sounds right.
[14:00] <Fujitsu> It was the 2nd last universe upload, the last being ubuntustudio-look with the same issue. A kdelibs upload came after that, then everything else looks to be -proposed.
[14:03] <ScottK> So does it have the requisite two thumbs up from testers?
[14:03] <ScottK> If it does, maybe pitti would waive the aging requirement.
[14:03] <persia> Which bug?  I'll test it now if it needs it.
[14:04] <ScottK> persia: I'd guess 152918
[14:04] <Fujitsu> That's the one.
[14:04] <Fujitsu> Two testers already, I think
[14:04] <persia> Yep.  Two testers.  It just needs a push.
[14:05] <Fujitsu> It hasn't been a week yet.
[14:05]  * persia hopes audacious-plugins-extra isn't widely installed
[14:06] <ScottK> Hobbsee: What do you think about asking pitti to waive the aging requirement for this issue?
[14:07] <proppy> norsetto: testing bug #64032
[14:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 64032 in rpmstrap "rpmstrap using /bin/sh when it should use /bin/bash" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64032
[14:07] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i thought we only needed one or the other?
[14:07] <ScottK> Generally both.
[14:08] <norsetto> proppy: btw, you can take over upstream if you are interested
[14:09] <persia> How out of date is popcon.ubuntu.com?  It doesn't even list the package.
[14:11] <proppy> norsetto: I don't really know rpm stuff, I'm only interested in this bug because you are :)
[14:12] <ScottK> Fujitsu: I was starting to look at python-scipy last week and I think there's at least one Ubuntu patch that's not fully incorporated.
[14:12]  * ScottK looks to see which.
[14:13] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Hm, possibly one of the FTBFS mass?
[14:13] <huats> norsetto: hey
[14:13] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Trying to find/decipher my notes.  I got interrupted in the middle of my review and didn't get back to it.
[14:13] <Fujitsu> AFAIK everything else is just direct upstream backports, so is there. If it builds, it should be fine.
[14:14] <Fujitsu> Ah, fun.
[14:14] <Fujitsu> Thanks.
[14:14] <proppy> norsetto: bug commented
[14:16] <ScottK> Fujitsu: I think it was umfpack.dpatch, but it looks like I didn't actually write it down.  It was partially, implemented.  IIRC.
[14:16]  * ScottK looks more
[14:16] <proppy> ScottK: http://dad.dunnewind.net/grab-merge.sh wiki page for usage ?
[14:17] <ScottK> You can use that one.  There's also one on merges.ubuntu.com.
[14:17]  * persia wonders if the known bugs in DaD were fixed, or if this is the same codebase in place for gutsy merge season
[14:17] <norsetto> hi huats
[14:17] <StevenK> They are different scripts, too
[14:17] <proppy> ok
[14:17] <proppy> grab-merge.sh packagename ?
[14:19] <norsetto> proppy: thx, a "works for me" would be good too :-)
[14:20] <proppy> oups :)
[14:20] <proppy> norsetto: done
[14:20] <norsetto> proppy: mercí
[14:23] <proppy> ScottK: there seems to be no conflict in opencl merge, so next step is to follow the procedure or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing ?
[14:23] <proppy> ScottK: I also noticed that there is no bug report for requesting the merge
[14:24] <ScottK> proppy: The bug report is normally only done to get the merge diff to a sponsor.  You need to look at merges.ubuntu.com of DaD (in /topic) to see what needs merging.
[14:24]  * persia believes it is good practice to open a merge bug in order to indicate to others that the package is already being handled
[14:24] <ScottK> proppy: I'll have a look in a bit and see if I agree.  IIRC that's likely correct.
[14:26] <ScottK> persia: As a MOTU, I'm not going to write a bug everytime I work on a merge.  If I touched it last, someone should check and see if I'm doing it.
[14:26] <persia> ScottK: Why not?  I do.  It only takes a minute.
[14:26] <ScottK> It's extra work with no point.
[14:26] <Fujitsu> That hasn't been done since Dapper, has it?
[14:26] <ScottK> It's more pointless bugs in the database.
[14:27] <Fujitsu> I like to minimise such not-really-bug cruft.
[14:27]  * ScottK too
[14:27] <persia> Fujitsu: It was done for Edgy & Feisty.  During Gutsy there was a discussion about "Maintainers", and it was done about 40%.
[14:27]  * ScottK isn't going to do it.  If someone duplicates work, I'm not going to worry about it.
[14:27]  * Fujitsu hasn't ever done it...
[14:27] <persia> I don't like tracking people down (as they tend to be asleep when I want them)
[14:28] <Fujitsu> (except for the short time the new sponsorship process was in place)
[14:28] <persia> ScottK: That's fine.  Don't complain if someone else merges something.
[14:28] <Hobbsee> ScottK: heh, that's why i'm hitting the ones i care about in universe now
[14:28] <proppy> ScottK: /openct_0.6.14-2ubuntu1.patch contains only debian/changelog diff
[14:28] <proppy> ScottK: so I guess it's a sync ?
[14:29] <ScottK> persia: I already have complained.  I think people should check before merging if they haven't been involved in the package.
[14:29]  * Fujitsu heads to bed.
[14:30] <persia> ScottK: I don't think we'll agree on this, but I also don't think it's worth either of our time arguing about it for the third release in a row :)
[14:30] <ScottK> persia: Note that process cruft was on my list of reasons to be less involved in Ubuntu.  This would be on my list.
[14:30]  * persia notes that the process was introduced in Dapper
[14:31]  * ScottK notes that when I was learning how to be a MOTU during Feisty no one ever told him it was required.
[14:32]  * ScottK got a lot of schooling about checking with the last uploader.
[14:32]  * ScottK does comment on DaD which merges he plans to do, so people can look there.
[14:33] <persia> I didn't agree with it then either.  People kept not getting in touch with me during Feisty, and uploaded broken versions of the packages I cared about.  I subscribe to the bugs for those packages, and would have seen a bug report.
[14:33]  * persia agrees that DaD commenting is also good practice
[14:34]  * ScottK thinks it's plenty.  A bug report is overkill.
[14:35]  * Hobbsee just expects people will leave her bugs alone for a while...like a few weeks.
[14:35] <proppy> ScottK: persia I don't see any comment on DAD
[14:35] <Hobbsee> unless they commit the applicable changes to debian kde, in which case, that's fine by me.
[14:35] <Hobbsee> or if they ask.
[14:35] <ScottK> proppy: Exactly.  I didn't plan on doing that one which is why I suggested it to you.
[14:36] <persia> ScottK: I suspect we'll both get hit: me because most people aren't in my timezone, and so find getting in touch with me difficult, and you because you don't have bugs filed.  It's another one of those two-ways-to-do-it problems.  A new interface to MoM should be the real solution.
[14:36] <ScottK> Fujitsu: (hoping you get the scrollback) - The umfpack patch from Debian definitely has less in it than ours.
[14:37] <ScottK> persia: Agreed (MoM is the solution).
[14:38] <stani> sorry, what is DaD and MoM?
[14:38] <ScottK> They are two web sites for looking at needed merges from Debian.
[14:38] <ScottK> MoM is at merges.ubuntu.com and the DaD url is in /topic.
[14:39] <persia> stani: They are two tools that compare the current development Ubuntu versions and the current development Debian versions, and list packages where there has been a Debian upload since the last Ubuntu sync or merge.  These help guide manual integration work at the start of a development cycle.
[14:39] <persia> (MoM is still pointing at Gutsy, so only of limited utility (of course with the archive closed, it really doesn't matter))
[14:40] <stani> thanks persia and scottk
[14:41] <Hobbsee> it makes me sad that the people who can implement this stuff are too busy to do so, and the ones who want to change it don't have access.
[14:41] <Hobbsee> oh well.
[14:42] <proppy> ScottK: sorry but I'm not sure what to do next ...
[14:43] <ScottK> proppy: Give me a few minutes to have a chance to look at it.
[14:43] <norsetto> Hobbsee: Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life
[14:43] <proppy> ScottK: I'll read the wiki page
[14:43] <dholbach> ScottK: laserjock took the motu school session and made 'documentation' material out of it -  I hope I transferred all other information bits to the new page - will re-check
[14:43] <ScottK> proppy: I think you are on the right track, I just want to check.
[14:44] <persia> norsetto: What's the bright side of the dysfunctional parents of merging?
[14:44] <ScottK> dholbach: It looks like it's mostly there, but I thought it odd you added the MOTU School like to the Debian Python Modules Team wikipage.
[14:44] <Hobbsee> norsetto: those who said that were then shortly crucified afterwards...
[14:44] <ScottK> persia: Plenty of stuff to talk about.
[14:45] <sourcercito> hi there, i have a question, i don't know if this is the correct place to ask it, but anyway here it goes, why does the -dev packages provide the .so libs and those links are not provided by the library packages, does this should be like this?
[14:45] <dholbach> ScottK: the other way around, I removed it from there, no?
[14:45]  * ScottK looks again.
[14:46] <dholbach> ScottK: I replaced the motu school patching session link with the packagingguide patching one
[14:46] <ScottK> dholbach: Sure.  I read the diff wrong.  Nevermind.
[14:46] <ScottK> Sorry about that.
[14:46] <dholbach> ScottK: no problem - thanks for checking
[14:46] <norsetto> Hobbsee: last I checked some of them were still around
[14:46] <dholbach> ScottK: I've added prodding our old MOTUs on my list
[14:46] <persia> sourcercito: While there are some libfoo packages that do provide .so links, the majority haqve no need, as the executing binaries seek a specific version of the library.  If anything is to be compiled locally, it is assumed that the -dev packages are available to ensure the right symbols are exported to the application.
[14:46] <norsetto> Hobbsee: but indeed we lost some on the way ......
[14:47] <ScottK> dholbach: Good.  Finding out why they are less active it important, IMO.
[14:47] <dholbach> yeah, definitely
[14:47]  * persia thanks dholbach for the list, and the short cycle time thereof
[14:47] <dholbach> persia: which list? sorry
[14:48] <persia> dholbach: The list to which you add things that then get done
[14:48] <dholbach> ah, thanks, it's getting longer though :)
[14:48] <proppy> persia: I need one !
[14:48] <dholbach> I'm not getting bored
[14:48] <sourcercito> persia, thanks, i was looking at a bug report, and don't have idea why the links wasn't provided by the package :-D, it seems fairly reasonable
[14:49] <proppy> dholbach: please tell me where you get it :)
[14:49] <norsetto> dholbach: I like the list of things which needs to be added to the list of things that has to be done
[14:50] <persia> sourcercito: There are some exceptions.  If a library doesn't provide the right guidance to clients at build time, it may need to ship the .so links in the library package (not -dev).  This is sometimes done intentionally when upstream ABI is particularly stable, or when supporting plugins of various sorts.  In the context of a bug, you'll want to investigate in more detail.
[14:51] <sourcercito> persia, sure i'll do it before take any further action in the report
[14:53] <minghua> Why would someone change Fujitsu's merge bugs to importance:wishlist one by one...
[14:54] <minghua> As if there isn't enough bug mail spam.
[14:54] <persia> minghua: All merge bugs are "wishlist" (or at least that was the guidance I was given in the depths of time...)
[14:55] <minghua> persia: I agree they are.  But is it really necessary to change it if it's filed as importance:unknown?
[14:56] <persia> minghua: I don't think so, but someone in bugsquad might be seeking karma, or just trying to reduce the number of importance:unknown bugs.
[14:56] <Hobbsee> minghua: were they all done by one person?
[14:57]  * persia thinks bughelper makes it extra easy to autoseek "merge" bugs and set them all "wishlist"
[14:57] <proppy> norsetto: my list of things that needs to be added to the list of tings that has been done is pretty empty,
[14:57] <dholbach> persia:  bughelper is read-only
[14:58] <persia> dholbach: I thought I saw Brian using it to feed a mail client for mass updates.
[14:58] <norsetto> proppy: my list of things to be done is pretty empty
[14:58] <dholbach> persia: yeah, you can let it generate lists for you
[14:58] <dholbach> (or just use python-launchpad-bugs)
[14:58] <proppy> norsetto: so let's play some GLSL together !
[14:59] <persia> This was months and months ago.  python-launchpad-bugs is much better now :)
[14:59] <dholbach> yeah, thanks to thekorn
[14:59]  * norsetto fires a MAD at proppy (he, coding to the metal)
[15:00]  * proppy blocks norsetto attack automagicaly cause he is in mode 13h
[15:01] <persia> Ummm...   Is this a gaming channel?
[15:01] <proppy> persia: -sorry- (gomenasai)
[15:01] <persia> proppy: ii, yo
[15:02] <proppy> persia: tsugoi ne
[15:02]  * persia resolves to follow the language guidelines for the channel in the future
[15:03]  * proppy turn off his OT chip
[15:05] <minghua> Hobbsee: To be fair, I've only received three such mails, but yes, they are done by the same person, Basilio Kublik.
[15:06] <norsetto> anyone here using claws-mail?
[15:06] <ScottK> minghua: I got one too.  Because they are 'triaging' bugs and helping.  Merge bugs are supposed to be wishlist so ...
[15:06] <Hobbsee> minghua: i'd suggest emailing them telling that it's just creating bugmail, and probably not worth doing, just to change the status.
[15:07]  * ScottK nudges StevenK to add wishlist to requestync.
[15:07]  * Hobbsee ponders an email filter to go by "if set to wishlist only, dont send me mail
[15:07] <StevenK> ScottK: Hrm?
[15:07] <minghua> Hobbsee: It's okay, triaging importance:undecided bugs is a worthy work.  I was just ranting.
[15:08]  * minghua doesn't want to discourage bug triagers.
[15:08] <Hobbsee> minghua: yeah, but merge bugs and sync bugs are a special case, and i think the docs should probably be changed to reflect that.
[15:08] <ScottK> StevenK: It'd be nice if when requesync sent it's mail it would set it to wishlist so that random bugsquadders finding the undecidec bug wouldn't spam us when they 'fix' it.
[15:08] <Hobbsee> i've previously told people to stay away from sync bugs, as they wanted to know what to do with them - that tehy're special
[15:08] <Hobbsee> ScottK: uh, it does.  or should
[15:08] <minghua> Hobbsee: If I get more of those from the same person, I'll send a mail.
[15:08] <ScottK> Hobbsee: It doesn't.
[15:09] <StevenK> Yeah, I thought it should already.
[15:10] <Hobbsee>  debhelper (5.0.57) unstable; urgency=low
[15:11] <ScottK> StevenK: I'm pretty sure not.  Bug #155796 may not have been done with requestsync, but I think it was.
[15:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155796 in python-scipy "Please sync python-scipy 0.5.2-7  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155796
[15:11] <Hobbsee>  .
[15:11] <Hobbsee>    * Add --ignore option. This is intended to ease dealing with upstream
[15:11] <Hobbsee>      tarballs that contain debian directories, by allowing debhelper config
[15:11] <Hobbsee>      files in those directories to be ignored, since there's generally no
[15:11] <Hobbsee>      good way to delete them out of the upstream tarball, and they can easily
[15:11] <Hobbsee>      get in the way if upstream is using debian/ differently than the Debian
[15:11] <Hobbsee>      maintainer.
[15:11] <Hobbsee> oh, interesting.
[15:12]  * persia likes --ignore.  Much becomes easier !
[15:12] <minghua> Hobbsee: You may want to look at pristine-tar package, too, if you find that useful.
[15:13] <persia> minghua: That doesn't help with keeping upstreams md5sums though
[15:13] <Hobbsee> persia: your patch got accepted too
[15:14] <minghua> persia: My impression is it does.
[15:14] <persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  BTS sent me a note.  Now everything can have dh_desktop, and I can prepare a patch to automatically install .desktop files found in debian/ :)
[15:14] <minghua> persia: I didn't really try it though.
[15:14] <Hobbsee> persia: yay!
[15:16] <persia> minghua: It may.  I'm not sure how, as I haven't deeply investigated it.  My big interests in --ignore are 1) easier to get things into REVU cleanly, and 2) cleaning up when I really don't agree with a Debian maintainer.
[15:17] <pkern> lucas: madduck removed him.
[15:17] <pkern> lucas: I'm looking for \sh who only recently told me that Keybuk wanted to be removed from p.d.o anyway but nobody dared to do it.
[15:18] <pkern> lucas: I don't even find Keybuk's official resignation to d-private.
[15:18] <minghua> persia: Yeah, I admit --ignore and pristine-tar are only tangentially related.
[15:18] <ScottK> proppy: Have you looked at the upstream code to see that the Ubuntu patch has been incorporated (openct)?
[15:19] <Nightrose> pkern: have you heard anything from \sh? - I have not seen anything written by him since we met him and he did not answer my sms by now which I send on saturday evening
[15:19] <proppy> ScottK: let me check this
[15:19] <pkern> Nightrose: He didn't answer on IRC. Nothing.
[15:19] <Nightrose> hmm
[15:19] <ScottK> proppy: That's the real question you need answered.
[15:19] <proppy> ScottK: I though that the remaining diff is a validation of that
[15:20] <ScottK> proppy: To the extent the automatic merge tool got it right, it is, but you need to check.
[15:20] <huats> gouki: ping ?
[15:20] <pkern> Nightrose: I was also concerned, but I got distracted by the O-Phase.
[15:20] <Nightrose> pkern: can you call him if he did not show up by tomorrow?
[15:20] <Nightrose> I already send the sms and he did not respond
[15:21] <pkern> WHOIS info for sourcecode.de looks outdated.
[15:22] <Nightrose> hmm
[15:23] <Nightrose> I have his RL address here if that is what you are looking for
[15:23] <pkern> Hm. OTOH...
[15:23] <pkern> Nightrose: Maybe he's on holiday?
[15:23] <pkern> 16:23 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-           Last Seen: 1 week 2 days (17h 2m 20s) ago (\sh_away seen 2 days (21h 33m 22s) ago)
[15:24] <Nightrose> pkern: possible but he didn't mention it did he?
[15:24] <pkern> Nightrose: He mentioned that he has got three weeks off.
[15:24] <pkern> Not that he goes away, that's right.
[15:24] <Nightrose> hmm
[15:28] <pkern> Nightrose: Sent two other pings (email and SMS)...
[15:29] <Nightrose> k
[15:35] <proppy> ScottK: yep changes are openct_usb.in ?
[15:35] <proppy> ScottK: oops
[15:35] <ScottK> ?
[15:35] <proppy> ScottK: I confirm that changes are in openct_usb.in new version
[15:36] <ScottK> proppy: Then a sync request is the correct next step in the process.  You need to say that in your sync request bug.
[15:36] <proppy> ScottK: ok :)
[15:49] <geser> Hobbsee: will you sponsor scons again when I'm done with merging or should I find another sponsor?
[15:50] <Hobbsee> geser: i'll have a look, certainly
[15:50] <Hobbsee> if you email me
[15:50] <geser> sure
[15:50] <pkern> Is hardy still frozen?
[15:50] <Hobbsee> yes
[15:50] <pkern> Hobbsee: Is there a plan about how long?
[15:51] <Hobbsee> pkern: unsure
[15:51] <Hobbsee> until the toolchain is done, i think
[15:52] <pkern> Hah.  Though that one.  But ok, no estimations.
[15:52]  * persia points at the Hardy Release Schedule for a draft and unofficial estimate
[15:53] <pkern> My brain isn't working currently. \:
[15:54] <proppy> ScottK: the sync is for hardy right ?
[15:54] <ScottK> proppy: Yes.
[16:14] <proppy> ScottK: bug #155839
[16:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155839 in openct "Please sync openct_0.6.14-2 from Debian unstable (main) to Ubuntu hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155839
[16:14]  * ScottK looks
[16:15] <ScottK> proppy: Did you test build 0.6.14-2 in your Gutsy pbuilder (or equivalent)?
[16:17] <proppy> ScottK: let me do that
[16:17] <proppy> ScottK: (it means no)
[16:17] <proppy> ScottK: why don't test in a hardy chroot ?
[16:21] <geser> proppy: if you have a hardy pbuilder, you can use it instead
[16:22] <proppy> geser: I miss the hardy debootstrap script
[16:22] <persia> proppy: The main reason not to test against hardy now is that the toolchain isn't stable, so there is no strong guarantee that things working now will work when the archive opens (although there's also no guarantee with gutsy)
[16:22] <proppy> ok
[16:22] <proppy> hardy deboostrap script in gutsy-backport ?
[16:22] <geser> proppy: please also add the new entries from debian/changlog to the sync request
[16:26] <proppy> geser: done
[16:27] <ScottK> proppy: Because a hardy chroot is pretty meaningless at this point and Gutsy is close enough.
[16:27] <minghua> persia: I would think things working now in hardy should still work when hardy opens.
[16:28] <persia> minghua: Maybe.  Who knows?  GCC might be broken, and might be fixed in 10 minutes (or be working, and be broken in 10 minutes).
[16:28] <minghua> persia: Whether things that eventually will work when hardy opens works now or not, is another question. :-)
[16:28] <minghua> persia: My point is, there shouldn't be (many) regressions in the toolchain.
[16:29] <minghua> Bug will be fixed, but hopefully no new ones get introduced.
[16:29] <minghua> Kernel is probably another situation.
[16:29] <ScottK> But as things are still settling out in Hardy, there's no guarantee that things aren't completely broken at any given moment.
[16:29] <persia> minghua: It depends on how one defines a regression.  Is the requirement for explicit headers between GCC 4.2 and GCC 4.3 a regression?  It caused a fair number of FTBFSs
[16:31] <minghua> persia: But isn't the major version of the toolchains already uploaded?
[16:31] <minghua> I mean, hardy has GCC 4.2 now, are we going to have 4.3 in the future?
[16:32] <ScottK> minghua: Uploaded, but not necessarily stable or fully built.
[16:32] <persia> minghua: I doubt it.  Just an example off the top of my head of what I consider to be a feature improvement in the toolchain breaking things.
[16:32] <minghua> Anyway, these are quite useless speculations....
[16:34] <minghua> persia: Yeah, I'm well aware of the example you brought up.  I just think there won't be such big feature changes down the road for hardy.
[16:41] <ScottK> proppy: You might also want to look into the requestsync script in ubuntu-dev-tools for future reference.
[16:42] <proppy> ScottK: build log posted on bug #155839
[16:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155839 in openct "Please sync openct_0.6.14-2 from Debian unstable (main) to Ubuntu hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155839
[16:42] <persia> Do we need a build log?  I thought it was just changelogs, overview of reasons for sync, and confirmation of build
[16:43] <proppy> persia: ScottK just asked me if I'd build it in a pbuilder / chroot
[16:43] <Hobbsee> no
[16:43] <proppy> persia: I'm the one who assumed that a build log assert this, but I may be wrong
[16:43] <minghua> proppy: A comment "it builds in pbuilder" should suffice. :-)
[16:44] <proppy> ok :)
[16:44] <persia> proppy: You're entirely correct: it's just a higher burden or proof than is required.
[16:44] <StevenK> I will provide a build log if anyone asks, but most people tend to trust me.
[16:44] <proppy> Ok thanks :)
[16:44] <proppy> persia:
[16:44] <proppy> sorry for flying away but I've to take this japanse class
[16:44] <proppy> see you tomorrow
[16:45] <proppy> ScottK: thanks for the help
[17:00] <Lutin> persia: the DaD codebase is the same as in gutsy, although iirc there's no known bug remaining (except the reliance on snapshots.debian.net)
[17:01] <persia> Lutin: I thought there was still the issues with 1) recognising sync candidates, 2) handling certain classes of native packages, 3) recognising NMUs of native packages, etc.  All fairly minor.  Did all those get cleaned up?
[17:02]  * persia still has a snapshot of the DaD codebase around, intending to look at some of those one day...
[17:03] <Lutin> persia: those looks pretty much like feature requests rather than actual bugs ;)
[17:03] <Lutin> but no, they've not been worked on
[17:05] <persia> Lutin: My apologies.  I don't tend to differentiate the two :)  I remember a couple cases during gutsy where the DaD output was useless, but it is admittedly the minority of cases.
[17:05] <persia> Did the vaguely defined plan to import the DaD interface on top of MoM ever go anywhere?
[17:06] <Lutin> persia: not really AFAIK, although I'm not in charge of the interface-related stuff :p
[17:07] <persia> Lutin: That's what I feared.  Alas.  Thanks :)
[17:07] <Lutin> persia: btw, what did you mean exactly by 'handling certain classes of native packages" ?
[17:09] <persia> Lutin: I'd have to check my records, but I thought that the version comparison system didn't work in some cases where native packages had Ubuntu variations.  It's been long enough I'll probably have to see it again (and given the progress with integration, remember to file bugs this time)
[17:10] <Lutin> persia: ok
[17:14] <SlimG> Is there any compiz-fusion 0.6.2 packages available for ubuntu?
[17:16] <persia> SlimG: Not quite yet.  We're in a rest period between release and archive open, so updates to everything are mostly frozen.
[17:19] <SlimG> persia: ah, I understand
[17:21] <SlimG> But if someone know of a unofficial ubuntu-package for compiz-fusion 0.6.2, I'd apprechiate it
[17:22] <Lamego> SlimG, does it comes on a single package, what are the main changes ?
[17:23] <persia> SlimG: No guarantees it will integrate later :)
[17:23] <Lamego> well, compiz*
[17:26]  * pkern is pissed off by Gutsy's xserver-xorg.  Just again.
[17:26] <pkern> And by ATI... fwiw.
[17:26] <StevenK> pkern: Or "Still"
[17:26] <SlimG> Lamego: It's the updated (0.6.2) version of the packages compiz-fusion-plugins-main (0.5.2) and compiz-fusion-plugins-extra (0.5.2)
[17:27] <persia> norsetto: I've finally revised, clarified, and completed my proposal.  I haven't seen the minutes of the mentoring meeting in ubuntu-motu-mentors@l.u.c yet.  What's your plan?  (I don't really want to send my proposal prior to the minutes)
[17:27] <pkern> StevenK: I take the CLI install to setup everything nicely BEFORE installing xorg.
[17:27] <pkern> StevenK: Then I load fglrx-kernel-source, which pulls in some xorg crap with corrupts the display on postinst.
[17:27] <pkern> *which
[17:27] <Lamego> SlimG, ok, tks
[17:27] <norsetto> pkern: well, let me know when I can upgrade my feisty xserver-xorg-ati
[17:27] <StevenK> pkern: Neat.
[17:27] <pkern> norsetto: Probably when the new, shiny fglrx is released and somehow pushed. ;)
[17:28] <SlimG> Lamego: http://lists.compiz-fusion.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/000142.html
[17:28] <pkern> I'm so pissed off.  I haven't installed the ssh server yet and the kernel compile is running.  Hopefully it's done when the HDD led doesn't blick anymore.
[17:28] <norsetto> persia: I thought you wanted to send the MoM yourself?
[17:29] <persia> norsetto: Ah.  We both bow, and nothing happens :)  Sure, I'll send it in a bit.  I'm happy with your last edit, unless you have anything else you want to add.
[17:29] <SlimG> Lamego: I might have lied about the compiz-fusion version number, it's currently 0.6.0, not 0.6.2 (I'm confused by the main compiz version numbering)
[17:30] <norsetto> persiapersia: no, I'm fine, sorry about that, I could have sent it two days ago already of course
[17:30]  * persia goes to reformat and post, with a broad smile
[17:30] <jdong> StevenK: I  was reading the scrollback... do you have an opinion on whether or not the Azureus situation can be approved for SRU?
[17:31] <jdong> I am deciding between -backports and SRU currently
[17:31] <StevenK> jdong: Not right now
[17:31] <jdong> StevenK: ok. Do you think this situation is more of an archive admin or motu-uvf issue?
[17:32] <StevenK> jdong: Um, no idea. Mainly because it's 2:30am local and my brain is fried
[17:33] <jdong> ok, no problem then
[17:33] <zul> qwhen is openweek btw?
[17:34] <persia> zul: I believe it starts this weekend, although it may formally be next week (or I could be wrong)
[17:35] <jcastro> zul: persia: it's on right now
[17:36] <zul> jcastro: doh..
[17:36] <persia> norsetto: Reading this again, it says that we will together provide a first draft.  Do you want to review privately?  I'd rather take full responsibility for it's weak points and have you shred it it public.
[17:37] <norsetto> persia: don't be silly, just sent it over and I'll do my bit in 10 min
[18:12] <ScottK> jdong: Have you talked to pitti yet about azureus?
[18:13] <jdong> ScottK: not yet
[18:13] <jdong> eating now, but plan on doing it soon
[18:13] <jdong> wanna come back me up? :)
[18:14] <ScottK> OK.  Ping me when you're ready and we can go ask together.
[18:14] <ScottK> Sure
[18:16] <jdong> ScottK: urgh, speaking of azureus... do you have a clean-ish system running Gutsy?
[18:17] <jdong> I don't like what one person is saying in feedback to the testing deb I posted
[18:17] <ScottK> Not that could run that I don't think (PIII 700 w/256mb RAM)
[18:18] <jdong> ScottK: ok, then let's talk this hypothetically until I can confirm back at home.... one person claims that even with my new package GCJ Java will not start torrents properly
[18:18] <jdong> I could've SWORN it worked fine and I tested that yesterday but let's pretend it didn't
[18:18] <ScottK> OK.  When will that be?
[18:19] <jdong> (tonight)
[18:19] <bluekuja> heya jdong
[18:19] <jdong> bluekuja: hey! you'd want to listen in on this one too
[18:19] <bluekuja> jdong, :D
[18:19] <jdong> so assuming GCJ didn't work, we are down to sun-java5-jre, sun-java6-jre, icedtea-java7-jre
[18:19] <jdong> those I know *for sure* work
[18:19] <ScottK> OK.  jdong - How about having it now as an "Assuming this all works right ..." conversation.
[18:20] <ScottK> That's still miles ahead of where we are now.
[18:20] <jdong> not really... this would affect the default Ubuntu install
[18:20] <jdong> which defaults to GCJ, which results in non-working Azureus again
[18:20] <bluekuja> jdong, does the package worked out at the end?
[18:20] <jdong> bluekuja: do you have GCJ and can you grab my testing deb from the bug?
[18:21] <jdong> bluekuja: I need you to see if you can hash-check or start torrents with GCJ
[18:21] <jdong> one person claimed NullPointerException
[18:21] <jdong> which worries me
[18:21] <bluekuja> jdong, let me install GCJ
[18:21] <bluekuja> jdong, link for the testing torrent
[18:21] <bluekuja> in the meantime
[18:21] <bluekuja> :)
[18:22]  * persia thinks the gutsy ISOs are good testing torrents :)
[18:22] <bluekuja> yep
[18:22] <bluekuja> I guess so
[18:22] <jdong> ScottK: long story short, we either need to (A) Force icedtea-java7-jre as a dependency, hardcode path to icedtea java in the launcher script or (B) set dep to icedtea | java6 | java5, then have launcher check for JRE's in that order, then fall back to GCJ
[18:23] <jdong> bluekuja: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10110296/azureus_2.5.0.4-1ubuntu1%7E0jdong1%7E7.10.gutsy1_all.deb
[18:24] <ScottK> jdong: Either of those would be a win in my book.
[18:24] <bluekuja> jdong, ty, give me some minutes, finishing a thing
[18:24] <jdong> bluekuja: sure thing
[18:25] <jdong> ScottK: B is the more sound solution IMO, but at any rate I don't think adding this would change archive admin discretion towards the SRU itself, you think?
[18:25] <ScottK> I don't think so.  The big question is if he'd take the microversion SRU.
[18:25] <jdong> ScottK: indeed. well I'll go poke him now
[18:25] <ScottK> OK.
[18:26]  * ScottK watches...
[18:26] <bluekuja> ScottK, do you think we can accept this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/torrentflux/+bug/155491?
[18:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155491 in torrentflux "Multiple security vulnerabilities in Edgy" [Undecided,In progress]
[18:26] <ScottK> bluekuja: Looking
[18:26] <bluekuja> thanks
[18:26] <bluekuja> ScottK, it introduces tons of patches for security fixes
[18:26] <bluekuja> all patches come from the current debian package as described there
[18:28] <ScottK> bluekuja: Looks eminiently reasonable to me, if somewhat large.  CVEs should get fixed.  I'd recommend ask keescook to look at it as he'd have to accept it for -secuirty anyway.
[18:28] <bluekuja> ScottK, sure thing, he did the previous revision
[18:29] <bluekuja> so I gonna ping him when up
[18:29] <ScottK> Well I sort of already did by using his nick.
[18:29] <norsetto> persia: I find a bit weak the b part
[18:29] <bluekuja> ScottK, yes, we should comment out about changing the release
[18:29] <persia> norsetto: how so?
[18:30] <bluekuja> ScottK, and adding a reference point to the bug inside the changelog entry to document
[18:30] <norsetto> persia: while the a part is quite clear, the b part is fuzzy, we don't have precise guidelines
[18:30] <ScottK> bluekuja: Sounds reasonable.
[18:30] <bluekuja> ScottK, so archive-admins can easily find it
[18:30] <bluekuja> ok, great
[18:30] <bluekuja> going for dinner
[18:30] <bluekuja> bbl
[18:30] <persia> norsetto: True, but it depends on the goal.  From what I understand from the current process, everyone is b)
[18:31] <norsetto> persia: yes, but b includes a
[18:32] <persia> norsetto: To a certain degree, yes, but I was more trying to establish clarity.  Currently it seems an "everything at once" effort, which takes a long time, and doesn't give feedback.
[18:32] <norsetto> persia: for instance, I see a clear goal that of preparing a new package
[18:32] <persia> norsetto: Right.  And once that's done, it's over.  Next up.
[18:33] <norsetto> persia: its as for the spec
[18:35] <keescook> bluekuja: sweet, yeah, it's in my TODO list.  I've got a mess of other things to get out now that Gutsy has settled.
[18:39] <anthony> soren, one more question: What's the difference in security/usage for the "Random key" option as opposed to "passphrase"?  Would it be appropriate to use random key for swap and passphrase for /home?
[18:42] <bluekuja> keescook, back. I gonna comment the bug out, so he can change the release to edgy-security and maybe add the bug number inside the changelog entry
[18:42] <bluekuja> keescook, for archive-admins review
[18:44] <anthony> On another note, when reporting bugs that are security issues, but which only effects packages in universe which are therefore unsupported officially and don't get security updates, is it appropriate to still check the box for "this bug is a security issue", or leave that unchecked and just subscribe motu-swat?
[18:45] <bluekuja> norsetto, can you please add hellboy195 to my students list?
[18:45] <amit_> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/developerzone/bounties   .. Hi .. I was going through the listed bounties and "python scripting everywhere" section drew my attention. I have some Python Scripting experience but i am not familiar with the five areas mentioned. How can i get involved and do *something*
[18:45] <bluekuja> norsetto, also amachu seems to be quite inactive, didnt hear news from him
[18:46] <bluekuja> norsetto, since some days now
[18:46] <norsetto> bluekuja: ok, thanks for letting us know, please try to get in touch with him and understand if there is a problem
[18:46] <ScottK> anthony: Yes.  Still mark it a security issue.
[18:47] <anthony> ScottK, Okay.
[18:47] <jdong> ScottK / bluekuja : e-mail sent to pitti :)
[18:47] <ScottK> anthony: But there's no need to mark bugs about publically known exploits private.
[18:47] <norsetto> bluekuja: I can add a slot with hellboy195, no problem
[18:47] <bluekuja> norsetto, I will. hellboy195 seems to be really active and happy about learning and improving his skills
[18:47] <bluekuja> so a slot for him is ok
[18:47] <bluekuja> ;)
[18:48] <anthony> ScottK, Ah, the checkbox is only for things which should remain private?  (the thing in question is for a new version available upstream which fixes security issues, but all are of course published upstream now)
[18:48] <bluekuja> jdong, sounds great, keep me updated with answer
[18:48] <jdong> sure
[18:48] <jdong> bluekuja: have you been able to test that yet?
[18:48] <ScottK> anthony: There are two checkboxes.  One for security and the other for private.  If there's a new version upstream that announces the fix, there's no need to make it private.
[18:48] <bluekuja> jdong, grabbing it right now, just finished that bittorrent thing
[18:48] <anthony> ScottK, Oh - I only remembered one.
[18:49] <jdong> bluekuja: ah, ok
[18:49] <ScottK> anthony: I remember two, but who knows.  LP gets changed all the time in ways I don't expect.
[18:49] <jdong> bluekuja: I also uploaded the packaging of azureus and upsteam sources for 2.5 and 3.0 as bzr branches...
[18:49] <anthony> ScottK, hehe, true
[18:49] <anthony> but then, so does my memory
[18:49] <bluekuja> jdong, small curiosity, where those branches are hosted?
[18:49] <jdong> bluekuja: I'm gonna implement the 3-way JRE detection mechanism tonight in bzr
[18:50] <jdong> bluekuja: launchpad
[18:50] <hellboy195> bluekuja: yeah. ubuntu rocks :D
[18:50] <jdong> bluekuja: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/azureus/
[18:50] <bluekuja> jdong, feel free to link them to motu-torrent please
[18:50] <bluekuja> either mirroring or pushing manually
[18:50] <bluekuja> hellboy195, :)
[18:50] <hellboy195> shortly away
[18:51] <jdong> bluekuja: yeah, I registered the mainstream stuff under ~motu-torrent
[18:51] <bluekuja> jdong, you rock then
[18:51] <jdong> bluekuja: I'm also keeping a branch of a modified 3.0.3.4 attempt to build wiht SWT 3.2, but that's my own crack under my username :)
[18:51] <bluekuja> eheh
[18:53] <ScottK> jdong: You're cc'd on my endorsement.
[18:59] <anthony> soren, nvm, I think I found the answer.  random key on swap works, but will disable hibernate.
[19:06] <jdong> ScottK: fantastic, thanks ScottK
[19:06] <ScottK> jdong: No problem.  It's all true.
[19:09] <joejaxx> Good Afternoon All
[19:09] <jdong> ScottK: btw, as soon as I resolve my failing classes situation this week and next, I would like to become a MOTU. Would you be willing to advise/mentor me at that time?
[19:10] <joejaxx> jdong: :)
[19:15] <jdong> is the original-maintainer statement in debian/control Original-Maintainer or that XSBC-Original-Maintainer thing that lintian screams to me about?
[19:16] <ScottK> XSBC-Original-Maintainer
[19:16] <jdong> ok, thanks
[19:16] <ScottK> jdong: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField for details.
[19:19] <jdong> also, am I correct in assuming that when I specify {Build-}Depends: a | b | c | d, if one has any listed one installed, nothing in addition will be installed, but if one has nothing, then APT will choose to install in the listed order?
[19:21] <ScottK> jdong: Yes.
[19:21] <jdong> awesome
[19:22] <persia> jdong: There is a little trick with that, that if some package not listed Provides: a listed package, and is installed, or will be installed, it will be used instead.
[19:23] <ScottK> jdong: Which is why you never put a virtual package first as you never know what will get installed out the virtual package.
[19:24] <jdong> ok, I'm tightening Azureus dependencies.... and currently I'm B-D on " icedtea-java7-jdk" , Depends: on " icedtea-java7-jre | sun-java6-jre | sun-java5-jre" as those are the *only* JRE/JDK's I know for sure to work
[19:24] <jdong> does that sound sane?
[19:24] <jdong> I just need to make sure that it's compiling with javac from icedtea, and in the running environment has one of those 3 JRE's listed
[19:25] <jdong> (don't care if in runtime, that's the default or not; I'll find the JVM via a launcher script)
[19:29] <ScottK> jdong: man-di is a good person to ask for second opinions on Java stuff.
[19:37] <bluekuja> jdong, currently testing it out
[19:37] <bluekuja> jdong, *seems* everything ok atm
[19:41] <jdong> bluekuja: can you do hash-checking on a torrent with more than 15MB downloaded?
[19:41] <jdong> bluekuja: you SURE java -version reports GCJ?
[19:41] <bluekuja> let me check
[19:41] <bluekuja> again
[19:41] <jdong> bluekuja: and curse you I already wrote like 15 lines of code :)
[19:42] <bluekuja> jdong, andrea@nightsong:~$ java --version
[19:42] <bluekuja> java version "1.5.0"
[19:42] <bluekuja> gij (GNU libgcj) version 4.2.1
[19:42] <bluekuja> that's what I'm running atm
[19:43] <bluekuja> jdong, is that ok?
[19:43] <jdong> bluekuja: yeah
[19:43] <jdong> bluekuja: can you hash check a large torrent successfully?
[19:43] <jdong> force a recheck
[19:44] <bluekuja> k, let me bring ubuntu torrent
[19:45] <jdong> bluekuja: also is gcj 4.2.1 the default gcj?
[19:45] <bluekuja> jdong, for gutsy, I guess yes
[19:45] <jdong> yes you're right, it is, dumb question of the day
[19:46] <bluekuja> ^^
[19:48] <jdong> grr is elif proper POSIX or a bashism?
[19:49] <sladen> checkbashisms
[19:50] <sladen> must be.  think about the syntax
[19:50] <geser> jdong: the dash manpage mentions elif
[19:50] <sladen> if x ; then y ; elif z ; then a ; fi
[19:51] <bluekuja> jdong, started downloading
[19:53] <jdong> sladen: thank you
[19:53] <jdong> sladen: just I saw this azureus script from Debian use ;else ; if ; then; fi; fi
[20:00] <bluekuja> jdong, no more chashes
[20:00] <bluekuja> atm
[20:03] <bluekuja> jdong, never seen a so stable azurues
[20:16] <jdong> bluekuja: what do you make of the user who gets a NullPointerException?
[20:17] <Schnitz> finger dholbach
[20:17] <bluekuja> jdong, lol, strange that he gets that using your binary package
[20:17] <bluekuja> jdong, every is running great in the terminal
[20:18] <bluekuja> *everything
[20:20] <bluekuja> jdong, it needs to be over 15 MB?
[20:24] <giovani> hi, I was wondering if someone could educate me on the policy for version numbers for cvs upstream versions
[20:24] <giovani> I've seen a few variations (A.B.C+cvsYYYYMMDD.X seems to be common)
[20:25] <geser> giovani: there is no real policy, only try to find a number which is larger than the current one and smaller than the next upstream release
[20:26] <giovani> ok, is there a dominant syntax?
[20:26] <giovani> I'd rather go with the flow
[20:26] <jdong> bluekuja: it seems like his error is in a hashcheck phase
[20:27] <ScottK> giovani: pretty much like what you showed above.
[20:27] <giovani> alright, thanks
[20:27] <jdong> bluekuja: which is only done when you remove a torrent, then readd it with a half-downloaded file
[20:27] <jdong> bluekuja: well it's not ONLY done then but I suspect that's how to repproduce his problem
[20:28] <bluekuja> jdong, ok, I'll test it out then. The torrent downloads really slowly
[20:28] <bluekuja> :/
[20:30] <jdong> bluekuja: can you right-click the torrent and "Force Re-check"?
[20:31] <bluekuja> yup
[20:32] <bluekuja> jdong, everything fine
[20:32] <bluekuja> mmm wait
[20:32] <bluekuja> CPU 100%
[20:32] <jdong> bluekuja: it's SHA256summing
[20:32] <jdong> high CPU is expected
[20:33] <bluekuja> ok for now then
[20:33] <jdong> bluekuja: as long as it's not crashing, I'm going to ignore that guy's failure report :-/
[20:33] <jdong> bluekuja: do you think we should still go ahead and enforce/depend on a nonGCJ java stack?
[20:34] <jdong> icedtea->java6->java5->failsafe
[20:34] <bluekuja> jdong, didnt crash for now
[20:34] <jdong> bluekuja: evne though GCJ works, it's less likely to be good with Azureus plugins users can download....
[20:34] <jdong> bluekuja: and is also much much slower than a JIT'ted stack
[20:35] <jdong> oh yeah, is Universe allowed to alt-dep on a multiverse package? :(
[20:35] <bluekuja> jdong, why depend on a nonGCJ java stack?
[20:35] <Martinp23> .wi58
[20:35] <Martinp23> (oops - sorry :))
[20:35] <jdong> bluekuja: I just said, it's slower and less likely to be compatible with plugins installabe via the Tools menu
[20:36] <jdong> bluekuja: and I'm not NEARLY as certain that it won't crash in other use cases
[20:36] <bluekuja> jdong, you've used that procedure for the package I'm using?
[20:36] <bluekuja> icedtea-->java6-->...
[20:36] <jdong> bluekuja: no, not currently
[20:36] <jdong> bluekuja: that's in a bzr branch
[20:37] <jdong> bluekuja: this one just uses java set by update-alternatives
[20:38] <bluekuja> jdong, still CPU 100 %
[20:38] <bluekuja> and seems to be stuck
[20:38] <jdong> bluekuja: that's what I was afraid of
[20:38] <jdong> bluekuja: using a Java stack INTERPRETED to calculate SHA256 sums
[20:38] <bluekuja> no wait, it restarted
[20:38] <bluekuja> 13.2%
[20:39] <bluekuja> 13.3%
[20:39] <bluekuja> it's moving
[20:39] <jdong> bluekuja: that speed is horrid
[20:39] <jdong> bluekuja: is it CPU bound or iowait?
[20:39] <bluekuja> I know^^
[20:40] <bluekuja> jdong, dont know, where can I check that?
[20:40] <jdong> bluekuja: top
[20:40]  * ScottK thought slow was a Java feature?
[20:40] <jdong> ScottK: entirely false
[20:40] <jdong> ScottK: Sun Hotspot can often tune code faster than native C
[20:40] <ScottK> Wow.
[20:40] <jdong> ScottK: the ability to decide optimizations at runtime is immense
[20:41]  * ScottK has entirely managed to avoid Java so far.
[20:41] <jdong> in comparison to predicting at compiletime
[20:41] <bluekuja> jdong, where top?
[20:41] <bluekuja> jdong, cannot find it at top bar
[20:41] <jdong> bluekuja: no, the top command
[20:41] <bluekuja> ah darn
[20:41] <bluekuja> I thought you were talking about
[20:41] <bluekuja> azurues
[20:41] <jdong> bluekuja: Cpu(s): compare us% vs wa %
[20:42] <bluekuja> jdong, Cpu(s): 97.0%us,  0.7%sy,  0.0%ni,  2.3%id,  0.0%wa
[20:42] <jdong> bluekuja: CPU bound, GCJ's fault
[20:43] <jdong> bluekuja: that's just sad... sun/icedtea is 100% wa (IO bound) near 0-10% CPU max
[20:44] <bluekuja> jdong, that's not fixed then
[20:44] <bluekuja> jdong, at least it doesnt crash at startup
[20:44] <bluekuja> as the current version does
[20:44] <jdong> bluekuja: update-alternatives --config java, siwtch to icedtea
[20:45] <jdong> bluekuja: then try force recheck again
[20:45] <bluekuja> jdong, I have
[20:45] <bluekuja> *+        1    /usr/bin/gij-4.2
[20:45] <bluekuja>           2    /usr/bin/gij-4.1
[20:45] <jdong> bluekuja: install icedtea-java7-jre
[20:46] <bluekuja> downloading
[20:46] <bluekuja> jdong, you'll have to explain me if need to ask you something java-related
[20:47] <jdong> bluekuja: sure thing
[20:47] <bluekuja> jdong, I dont know java as well as you do
[20:47] <bluekuja> and yeah, I admit, I dont like java too much
[20:48] <bluekuja> :)
[20:48] <jdong> bluekuja: if it weren't for Sun's former restrictive EULA and now GNU's horrid slow incomplete attempt to redo it.... Java would be amazing
[20:49] <zul> *cough* java sucks *cough*
[20:49] <bluekuja> lol
[20:49] <ScottK> geser: Please tell me you didn't upload a fix to gutsy-proposed that you haven't verified works (that's what I get from your mail to the MOTU list)?
[20:49] <bluekuja> jdong, force-recheck done
[20:49] <bluekuja> in 5 seconds
[20:49] <bluekuja> damn fast
[20:50] <geser> ScottK: I didn't check the package myself
[20:50] <bluekuja> azureus started in 1 second as well
[20:50] <bluekuja> using icedtea
[20:50] <jdong> bluekuja: are you now convinced as to why we should prioritize/depend on icedtea -> sun6 -> sun5?
[20:50] <ScottK> geser: Did you upload it?
[20:50] <geser> yes
[20:50] <bluekuja> jdong, definitely yes now...
[20:50] <bmk789> do most packagers do their packaging in a VM or is it normal to do it on your main OS with pbuilder?
[20:50] <bluekuja> jdong, I should have tried it directly
[20:50] <geser> ScottK: that patch comes from upstream
[20:51]  * ScottK sort of thought testing before uploading would have been a good idea?
[20:51] <bluekuja> jdong, yesterday
[20:51] <jdong> bluekuja:  :)
[20:51] <bluekuja> jdong, let's move that way
[20:51] <bluekuja> jdong, it simply rocks
[20:51] <ScottK> bmk789: I always build in pbuilder so I know I'm starting clean.
[20:51] <jdong> bluekuja: whole-heartedly agreed.... now, logistics....
[20:51] <jdong> Depends: icedtea-java7-jre | sun-java6-jre | sun-java5-jre,
[20:51] <jdong> ^^ is that legal for universe packages?
[20:52] <jdong> to provide a universe primary Depends but 2 alternatives from multiverse?
[20:53] <bluekuja> mmm...I would say yes. But I might be wrong
[20:53] <bluekuja> ScottK, geser ?
[20:53] <AnAnt> what's the clean target in rules file for ?
[20:53] <zul> to remove object files,etc
[20:53] <ScottK> jdong: If it has a multiverse depends it gets exiled to multiverse
[20:53] <AnAnt> is there a target in rules file that is executed when I run debuild ?
[20:54] <bluekuja> AnAnt, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch04s05.html
[20:54] <jdong> ScottK: even if a choice is satisfiable by universe package?
[20:54] <ScottK> Ah.  Good question.  I haven't run into that before.
[20:54] <jdong> ScottK: I can just change it to just Depends: icedtea-java7-jre, but that punishes people with java5/java6 to download a 35MB new runtime
[20:55] <jdong> ScottK: I mean in this case I don't think it makes much sense to demote to multiverse...
[20:55] <ScottK> jdong: I'd say discuss with pitti after he responds to the pleading for a micro version SRU.
[20:55] <jdong> ScottK: ok
[20:56] <bluekuja> ScottK, it should get exiled only if it doesnt have satisfiable packages on universe
[20:56] <bluekuja> ScottK, and I should try the case jdong explained
[20:56] <jdong> bluekuja: agreed, but I don't think should necessarily == our policies
[20:56] <ScottK> bluekuja: It's really up to the archive admins, that's why I said ask pitti.
[20:57] <bluekuja> ScottK, fair enough. We'll wait pitti tomorrow then
[20:58] <jdong> bluekuja: when you get a chance, review/test bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~motu-torrent/azureus/ubuntu-packaging/
[20:58] <jdong> bluekuja: I've gotta run for the day
[20:58] <bluekuja> jdong, added to TODO
[20:58] <bluekuja> bath now
[20:58]  * bluekuja needs some relax
[20:58] <bluekuja> :)
[20:59] <geser> bluekuja: good question, try asking an archive admin
[20:59] <ScottK> bluekuja: To Much Information.
[20:59] <bluekuja> ScottK, lol
[20:59] <bluekuja> geser, I will
[21:00]  * bluekuja off 
[21:00] <slangasek> ScottK, bluekuja: if component-mismatches claimed a package should be punted to multiverse for having an alternative dep in multiverse, I think that would pretty clearly be a bug in component-mismatches
[21:01] <ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
[21:01] <ScottK> jdong: ^^^
[21:03] <Nafallo> ajmitch: I got spam... "Become a pornstar today ajmitch"
[21:03] <Nafallo> wtf?
[21:04] <ajmitch> heh
[21:04] <ajmitch> impressive
[21:04] <imbrandon> lol
[21:04] <Nafallo> oh. I was only CC'd ;-)
[21:04]  * ajmitch blames imbrandon 
[21:04] <Nafallo> even more WTF
[21:04] <imbrandon> Nafallo, maybe its all those facebook quizes youve been sending out :)
[21:05] <Nafallo> imbrandon: hehe ;-)
[21:05] <Nafallo> imbrandon: have you got a dragon yet? :-)
[21:05] <bmk789> hey imbrandon
[21:05] <imbrandon> heya bmk789
[21:05] <imbrandon> Nafallo, nah, i ahvent hardly touched my facebook in a cupple weeks
[21:05] <imbrandon> been trying to get a sane 2.6.x fatx patch accepted , well at leaste working
[21:05] <Nafallo> imbrandon: you should get a dragon, then you touch it daily again :-)
[21:06] <imbrandon> for hardy
[21:06] <imbrandon> everyones damn fatx kernels are 2.4 :(
[21:07] <imbrandon> figured there would atleaste be a fuse driver or something
[21:07] <slangasek> "fatx"?
[21:08] <imbrandon> although it looks like "someone" is working on it on lkml
[21:08] <zul> heh blame imbrandon first ask questions later
[21:08] <imbrandon> slangasek, the filesystem Xboxes use
[21:08] <slangasek> oh
[21:08] <Nafallo> zul: :-)
[21:09] <imbrandon> slangasek, thats why my xboxes run gentoo not ubuntu :) and even if i get ubuntu to boot its only with 2.4 kernels
[21:09] <imbrandon> slangasek, here is the jest of it http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/9/23/114
[21:10] <imbrandon> mostly its not to run xboxes though that i want it for, its to read xbox hard drives from my gutsy/hardy install ;)
[21:10] <jdong> slangasek: thanks for the answer
[21:10] <giovani> hi, another question :) -- if I wanted to keep both a "stable" and a cvs package in the same repository, is the recommended method to name one PACKAGE, and the other PACKAGE-CVS, I've seen that done a handful of times, not sure how to deal with the requirement
[21:10] <Nafallo> imbrandon: port it to 2.6 :-)
[21:11] <imbrandon> Nafallo, yea i have been tinkering with it, but i'm not a great kernel hacker ;)
[21:11]  * imbrandon looks at zul
[21:11] <Nafallo> lol
[21:11] <Nafallo> was just about to point at him ;-)
[21:11] <zul> imbrandon: hmmm?
[21:11] <imbrandon> port the fatx fs driver from 2.4 to 2.6 :)
[21:11] <imbrandon> hehe
[21:12]  * zul twinkles his nose
[21:12] <imbrandon> xebian has it if that helps :)
[21:12] <imbrandon> lool
[21:12] <zul> imbrandon: you'll have to send me an xbox to test it out dont you?
[21:12] <Nafallo> imbrandon: want to use xboxes as buildds in the future? ;-)
[21:12] <imbrandon> zul, i could just send you some fatx formated file images you could loop mount
[21:13] <imbrandon> Nafallo, that would be nice
[21:13] <Nafallo> btw, are the ps3 kernel build on ps3? :-)
[21:13] <zul> imbrandon: that would be an interesting project
[21:13] <imbrandon> probably just on a normal ppc
[21:13] <imbrandon> Nafallo, ^
[21:14] <imbrandon> zul, give me a few minutes , i'll see if i can make a fatx drive image from my usb key ( xbox memory card ) its fatx too
[21:14] <Nafallo> imbrandon: yea, think so to. someone is cheating... ;-)
[21:14] <wallyweek> interesting question, now you mention the ps3
[21:14] <zul> imbrandon: cool put it up somewhere i can get at it
[21:14] <imbrandon> kk
[21:14] <wallyweek> is there any way to cross-build a package for ppc
[21:14] <wallyweek> on a i386 environment?
[21:16] <imbrandon> wallyweek, well yes and no
[21:16] <imbrandon> heh as far as building a "package" no, not easily, as far as simple bins yes, look into scratchbox
[21:17] <wallyweek> imbrandon: thanx! :)
[21:17] <imbrandon> far easier to just install a ppc distro/bootstrap into qemu-system-ppc
[21:18] <imbrandon> just fyi, i went down that road a few months ago
[21:18] <imbrandon> and even with qemu-system-ppc its not simple/easy but much much easier
[21:19] <wallyweek> yes, I can figure it out
[21:20] <wallyweek> and that's why I still haven't tried to build my packages for ppc ;9
[21:20] <wallyweek> ;)
[21:20] <LeRoutier> Hello great masters
[21:21] <imbrandon> zul, dd if=/dev/sdb of=fatx_test.img
[21:21] <imbrandon> err zul gettign image now
[21:21] <wallyweek> as I read ppc is not officially supported anymore,
[21:21] <LeRoutier> I'm in the process of taking maintainership of swfdec* packages for Debian. I'd like to do it also for Ubuntu
[21:21] <LeRoutier> where should I start ?
[21:22] <wallyweek> could my packages reach the repository even without a clean ppc build?
[21:22] <imbrandon> wallyweek, yes its only a "community port"
[21:22] <Nafallo> I want my bank account so I can get pay and get my coat :-P
[21:23] <wallyweek> LeRoutier, I think you don't have to do much work
[21:23] <imbrandon> LeRoutier, ubuntu maintains packages as a group , e.g. MOTU, you can ( but dont need to ) join MOTU , or you can just work with MOTU's to get your uploads done if needed ubuntu specific changes
[21:23] <wallyweek> however, have a look at the Ubuntu packaging guide
[21:23] <imbrandon> but if the packages are already in debian they will sync here automatricly
[21:24] <zul> imbrandon: ill be back later tonight
[21:24] <imbrandon> zul, ok , ping me later
[21:24] <zul> okied okies
[21:25] <LeRoutier> David Schleef (ds@debian.org, current/future-ex-former swfdec maint) should upload some of my packages as sponsor
[21:25] <imbrandon> its a 256mb image, but i'll compress it
[21:25] <imbrandon> zul, ^
[21:25] <zul> imbrandon: fine with me
[21:25] <LeRoutier> but some changes need to stay ubuntu only, because of things like Ubufox integration
[21:26] <LeRoutier> hi asac
[21:26] <slangasek> LeRoutier: hmm, David Schleef is no longer maintaining them?
[21:26] <LeRoutier> and firefox references too in swfdec-mozilla package
[21:26] <LeRoutier> slangasek, nope, he lacks time and isn't too motivated either
[21:26] <asac> hi
[21:27] <LeRoutier> he don't even have any deb machine/pbuilder running
[21:27] <LeRoutier> (anymore)
[21:27] <imbrandon> LeRoutier, then the best course of action is just make the changes and talk to us MOTU's in here when you need upload sponsors, eventualy ( quicker than you think ) will becomes a MOTU
[21:27] <LeRoutier> ok, #launchpad team just accepted my PPA activation
[21:28] <LeRoutier> I'll upload my packages there for testing
[21:28] <imbrandon> :)
[21:28] <LeRoutier> 0.5.3 based, with Ubufox support, using /etc/alternatives too
[21:28] <imbrandon> nice, alternatives is always good, if not confusing at times ;)
[21:29] <slangasek> oh geez, we're up to swfdec0.5 now?
[21:29] <LeRoutier> already 3 flashs plugins that I know about, was the only one that didn't support it
[21:29] <imbrandon> man you know your on a slow box when gzip takes 90% cpu for over 3 minutes
[21:29] <LeRoutier> slangasek, yep, and we actually have 0.3, 0.4 & 0.5 shipping in Gutsy, which is quite horrible
[21:30] <LeRoutier> need a clean-up before Hardy ships
[21:30] <slangasek> LeRoutier: long-term, it's beneficial for everyone if it's possible to find a way to keep the same source package in Debian and Ubuntu
[21:30] <imbrandon> oh wow
[21:30] <slangasek> LeRoutier: right, 0.3 will fall out of hardy automatically with the first Debian sync since it's gone now from testing/unstable
[21:30] <LeRoutier> well, I saw that iceweathing has also a plugin finder like Ubufox
[21:31] <LeRoutier> with luck, they'll end-up with the same metadata format in control files or anywhere else
[21:31] <slangasek> right, and if it's just metadata in the control files, that doesn't seem like a reason not to keep the same thing in Debian & Ubuntu
[21:31] <slangasek> IMHO
[21:32] <LeRoutier> If someone want to test them before I upload them to PPA, here they are : http://www.leroutier.net/floss/apt/index.html
[21:32] <LeRoutier> I'd like some feedback
[21:33] <LeRoutier> I didn't know how to format conf/distributions for Gutsy so I made it sid, works with my gutsy
[21:35] <norsetto_> bug 155950 is suitable for a new contributor. Pls. assign yourself to it and mark it in-progress if interested. I'm available to mentor it
[21:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155950 in efax-gtk "Please merge efax-gtk (3.0.15-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155950
[21:38] <bmk789> im trying to do the packaging tutorial http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html   but im getting an error when running the dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
[21:39] <bmk789> imbrandon: ^
[21:39] <wallyweek> hello norsetto, cfalco here :)
[21:39] <norsetto> wallyweek: hey!
[21:39] <norsetto> wallyweek: I like you new nick better ;-)
[21:39] <imbrandon> bmk789, what error ?
[21:40] <bmk789> /usr/bin/fakeroot: 166: debian/rules: Permission denied
[21:40] <wallyweek> it should avoid... ehm... any mess ;)
[21:40] <imbrandon> bmk789, pastebin the whole thing
[21:40] <norsetto> wallyweek: amen ....
[21:41] <bmk789> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/41743/
[21:42] <geser> bmk789: chmod +x debian/rules
[21:42] <bmk789> same error
[21:42] <bmk789> wait
[21:44] <imbrandon> yea the rules file is a makefile, needs to be executable , e.g. +x
[21:44] <bluekuja> slangasek, thanks :)
[21:44] <nixternal> booyahkah
[21:44] <imbrandon> ello nixternal
[21:44] <nixternal> wasabi homeskillet
[21:44] <imbrandon> nadda
[21:44] <bluekuja> heya nixternal
[21:44] <nixternal> I guess I could go back to hola since LaserJock isn't around :)
[21:44] <nixternal> howdy bluekuja
[21:46] <bmk789> ok it works now i just need to setup this gnupg stuff
[21:47] <imbrandon> :)
[21:47] <slangasek> imbrandon: it needs to be executable because it's invoked as a script, not because it's a makefile. :)
[21:47] <imbrandon> ahh my mistake, i knew it had to be, just had the wrong reason
[21:48] <imbrandon> man i really need to brush up, considering i have to talk on some of this later this week ;)
[21:48] <imbrandon> lol
[21:48] <bmk789> is there a guide to gnupg?
[21:49] <imbrandon> bmk789, yes on the wiki, lemme find a link
[21:49] <giovani> http://www.gnupg.org/docs.html
[21:49] <bluekuja> bmk789, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GPG
[21:49] <imbrandon> bluekuja, thanks
[21:49] <bluekuja> imbrandon, np :)
[21:49] <bmk789> thanks
[21:50] <imbrandon> probably even a factoid about it .....
[21:50] <imbrandon> !gpg
[21:50] <ubotu> gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and class #8 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts
[21:50] <bluekuja> yep
[21:50] <bluekuja> ^^
[21:50] <imbrandon> ahh there we go
[21:50] <LeRoutier> bmk789, If you don't want to deal with the command line, use seahorse
[21:51] <imbrandon> or kgpg ( depending on DE choice ) :P
[21:51] <jdong> imbrandon: does kgpg now function as an agent?
[21:52] <imbrandon> it will use and config the cli agent now afaik
[21:55] <ajmitch> I see we're using DaD again for merging (according to the topic)
[21:55] <Nafallo> oh. is it opened already?
[21:56] <wallyweek> anyone using svn-buildpackage?
[21:56] <ajmitch> if not, probably soon
[21:56] <ajmitch> but merges are already being done
[21:56] <LeRoutier> hum, uploading binaries to PPA is a bad idea
[21:57] <ajmitch> a very bad idea
[21:57] <ajmitch> good day, mr bacon
[21:57] <norsetto> a definetively very bad idea
[21:58] <LeRoutier> ajmitch, norsetto : don't worry, I recieved an insult mail from the bot
[21:58] <bluekuja> good night everyone
[21:58] <SELinux> hello jono
[21:58] <Nafallo> jono: hi :-).
[21:58] <ajmitch> LeRoutier: it only wastes your bandwidth, really
[21:58] <Nafallo> hehe
[21:58] <Nafallo> I always get reminded to start liferea when I see you jono ;-)
[21:58] <LeRoutier> ajmitch, I should just change my build scripts
[21:59] <jono> hey
[21:59] <jono> Nafallo: hehe
[21:59] <jono> :)
[21:59] <imbrandon> the ppa probably wont accept a bin upload would it ?
[21:59] <imbrandon> heya jono
[21:59] <norsetto> LeRoutier: now you are blacklisted and will be banned for life, or until you can pay us a beer
[21:59] <SELinux> imbrandon: i do not think it does
[21:59] <wallyweek> imbrandon, definitely not
[21:59] <Nafallo> jono: you missed out last Thursday btw. it was great :-)
[22:00] <wallyweek> ok, I should consider bzr-builddeb, right? ;)
[22:05] <lifeless> jono: not sleeping again ?
[22:05] <jono> lifeless: heh, I sometimes pop on in the eve
[22:05] <jono> Nafallo: glad you had a good 'un :)
[22:05] <lifeless> of the war ?
[22:06] <jono> hey imbrandon
[22:06] <jono> :)
[22:06] <imbrandon> man this fatx kernel patch might not be so bad, i might beome a kernel hacker after all, nah too much stress ;)
[22:09] <slangasek> LeRoutier: fwiw, small regression in your swfdec0.5 debian/watch file, you changed 0\.4 to 0.5 when it should really be 0\.5; this is a regexp, and you technically want to match a literal "." there
[22:09] <LeRoutier> slangasek, uscan doesn't agree with you
[22:10] <slangasek> LeRoutier: doesn't agree how?
[22:10] <LeRoutier> looks like it only wants escaping between the (...)
[22:10] <LeRoutier> slangasek, go to /, type uscan. With 0.5/ in watch file, he's happy. with 0\.5, he's not
[22:11] <LeRoutier> sad lintian/linda don't check this
[22:11] <lifeless> file a bug
[22:11] <lifeless> StevenK may well be motivated.
[22:12] <LeRoutier> ah, both swfdec* source packages approve by PPA
[22:13] <slangasek> LeRoutier: hmm, so it does.  well, that's weird then.
[22:13] <LeRoutier> has those were my first packages, I used as much tools as possible to test my packages for conformance
[22:13] <LeRoutier> doesn't mean those are perfect
[22:14] <LeRoutier> If you find anything, please report
[22:19] <LeRoutier> how much time between src package accepted by PPA and binaries available to anyone ?
[22:21] <imbrandon> depends, sometimes 40 minutes sometimes ~1 day
[22:21] <slangasek> depends on how long the package takes to build, certainly
[22:21] <LeRoutier> nevermind, they just came online
[22:22] <imbrandon> yesterday the xen i386 was down for the count heh
[22:22] <imbrandon> so it took much longer
[22:22] <LeRoutier> false alert, only src packages listed for now
[22:22] <LeRoutier> currently building : https://edge.launchpad.net/~leroutier/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
[22:36] <LeRoutier> back
[22:39] <wallyweek> lr, still building?
[22:40] <LeRoutier> Pending (1010)
[22:40] <LeRoutier> https://edge.launchpad.net/~leroutier/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
[22:41] <persia> Apparently audacity 1.2.6-0ubuntu1 (feisty release version) doesn't work in non-latin locales.  audacity-1.3.3-build1 (gutsy release version) compiles on feisty.  Is this the sort of bug which should be a backport request?
[22:41] <LeRoutier> is that the position in the build queue ?
[22:43] <persia> LeRoutier: It's a priority number.  When selecting the next package for build, all packages with the same priority number appear to have equal chance of building (although there are other factors as well)
[22:44] <wallyweek> persia, good to know, I had the same question ;)
[22:47] <LeRoutier> Build started 1 minutes ago  on promethium (xen-amd64)
[22:48] <LeRoutier> hum, is there a way to change build order on PPA ?
[22:48] <LeRoutier> it first tried to compile swfdec-mozilla before swfdec
[22:49] <wallyweek> lr, looks bad :(
[22:49] <LeRoutier> I uploaded them in the good order
[22:50] <LeRoutier> looks like it processed them in inverse order
[22:50] <wallyweek> never had the same issue
[22:50] <lifeless> did they have the same priority ?
[22:50] <LeRoutier> yep
[22:51] <wallyweek> swfdec-mozilla depends on swfdec, I presume?
[22:51] <LeRoutier> yep
[22:51] <wallyweek> build-depends?
[22:51] <imbrandon> lifeless, i know you cant give any kinda of definate awnser at all but you know when PPA package removal "might"/"possibly" hit edge ?
[22:52] <LeRoutier> wallyweek, swfdec0.5-dev is in swfdec-mozilla 's build deps
[22:52] <lifeless> I don't know sorry
[22:52] <lifeless> Ask in #launchpad - its what I would do :)
[22:54] <wallyweek> lr, weird, build should have stopped just after starting
[22:54] <wallyweek> afaik, deps are resolved ppa first, then the specified release
[22:54] <wallyweek> is swfdec in ubuntu?
[22:54] <wallyweek> I mean an older release of course
[22:55] <LeRoutier> yep
[22:55] <LeRoutier> 0.5.1
[22:55] <LeRoutier> argh, my fault
[22:56] <wallyweek> I wonder what deps will be in the resulting binary .deb
[22:56] <LeRoutier> just saw this : Build-Depends: ... libswfdec0.5-dev (>= 0.5.3-1)
[22:56] <LeRoutier> but Ubuntu version is -0
[22:56] <LeRoutier> argh
[22:57] <wallyweek> :|
[22:57] <wallyweek> I think you'll have to upload your source package again
[22:58] <wallyweek> don't forget to change the revision
[22:58] <wallyweek> or the bot will reject the upload
[22:58] <LeRoutier> 0.1 is ok ?
[22:58] <LeRoutier> it's 0 actually
[22:59] <imbrandon> LeRoutier, mostly people just append ~ppaX
[22:59] <LeRoutier> ok, i'll do it, thanks
[23:01] <tonyyarusso> soren: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/110970
[23:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110970 in cryptsetup "When mounting encrypted drives the password should be asked for graphically and not in text mode" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[23:07] <LeRoutier> swfdec0.5 compiled well. new swfdec-mozilla uploaded and accepted
[23:10] <blueyed> siretart: I've fixed/proofread the doc for bzr-builddeb, during learning what it can provide.
[23:11] <blueyed> Is it ok to provide it as a debdiff or would a bzr branch be preferred? (I've not found that the package is maintained in bzr somewhere, which is kind of odd ;)
[23:14] <wallyweek> blueyed, I don't know, put please upload it somewhere as I may need it shortly :)
[23:16] <pwnguin> aww crap, i forgot about open week.
[23:17]  * ajmitch didn't know much about open week
[23:19] <pwnguin> it would have been nice to have sat in on the kernel team meeting
[23:19] <pwnguin> session, whatever
[23:19] <ajmitch> it would be nice to be able to go to any of the sessions
[23:20] <pwnguin> psh
[23:20] <pwnguin> they start at noon :P
[23:20] <ajmitch> for you, perhaps
[23:20] <nxvl> norsetto: ping
[23:21] <norsetto> nxvl: Hola
[23:21] <nxvl> norsetto: heh, hispanohablante
[23:21] <nxvl> norsetto: i'm working in efax-gtk merge
[23:22] <norsetto> nxvl: no, hablante patetico
[23:22] <nxvl> norsetto: lets talk in priv so we can talk on spanish
[23:22] <nxvl> :D
[23:22] <blueyed> wallyweek: for now it's attached to bug 145019 (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10124412/bzr-builddeb_0.90ubuntu2.dsc.diff). Or do you mean the bzr branch itself?
[23:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145019 in bzr-builddeb "bzr-builddep: README: wrong path to documentation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145019
[23:23] <nxvl> norsetto: sorry, i think u speak spanish
[23:23] <pwnguin> so now that gutsy's out and working, what should I do with my testing partition?
[23:23] <norsetto> lol
[23:23]  * imbrandon dosent have any sessions untill the end of the week
[23:23] <nxvl> norsetto: the thing is that im not sure about the debdiff part
[23:23] <imbrandon> pwnguin, hardy ?
[23:23] <pwnguin> is that open yet?
[23:23] <nxvl> norsetto: i need un gunzio the diff.gz and compare the ubuntu with the debian one?
[23:24] <imbrandon> the toolchain is there, kinda
[23:24] <pwnguin> id been thinking about trying to squeeze ubuntu-mobile onto it
[23:24] <imbrandon> it will be open "soon"
[23:24] <norsetto> nxvl: ok, have you checked the wiki page link I gave on the email?
[23:24] <nxvl> norsetto: yes, i'm following it
[23:24] <imbrandon> pwnguin, is there actualy anything in -mobile yet ?
[23:24] <pwnguin> lpia?
[23:24] <pwnguin> tons
[23:24] <norsetto> nxvl: well, you can do merges in two ways; manual and guided
[23:24] <pwnguin> i have a small chroot
[23:25] <nxvl> norsetto: i'm stack in the first point of "Get to work"
[23:25] <imbrandon> pwnguin, got any ppc's arround to "donate" to me ?
[23:25] <imbrandon> hehe
[23:25] <norsetto> nxvl: ok, let me check the point
[23:25] <pwnguin> apparently they're targetting devices without traditional install tools
[23:25] <pwnguin> what no
[23:25] <pwnguin> why would i have ppcs?
[23:25] <nxvl> norsetto: it says "#
[23:25] <nxvl> norsetto: it says "Check the package_ubuntu.debdiff file to check what has been modified in Ubuntu in previous versions and why.
[23:25] <nxvl> #
[23:25] <pwnguin> go down to topeka and hunt
[23:25] <imbrandon> pwnguin, yea like the ipod and such
[23:26] <imbrandon> pwnguin, yea i plan on it this weekend
[23:26] <nxvl> norsetto: so i'm unsure, do i need to gunzio the diff.gz's and compare them or just check the changelog?
[23:26] <pwnguin> imbrandon: the surplus place?
[23:26] <imbrandon> yea
[23:26] <pwnguin> lemme know if you see anything awesome
[23:26] <imbrandon> kk
[23:26] <pwnguin> i didnt know they were open on weekends
[23:26] <imbrandon> might not be , i havent checked
[23:26] <pwnguin> heh
[23:27] <pwnguin> its a government facility, it sounds unlikely
[23:27] <imbrandon> if not i'm sure i can sneak out friday
[23:27] <imbrandon> i just need to get something more than this 200 lol
[23:27] <pwnguin> imbrandon: I do have an amd64 3000+ athlon lying around
[23:27] <norsetto> nxvl: its talking about the tools you can use
[23:28] <nxvl> norsetto: oh!
[23:28] <norsetto> nxvl: in that case, its grab-merge that will do the debdiff
[23:28] <imbrandon> mb / ram / chip ? wanna get rid of it ?
[23:28] <pwnguin> just the chip
[23:28] <pwnguin> no ram or mb
[23:28] <imbrandon> ahh i got some ram i think will work
[23:28] <imbrandon> hrm
[23:28] <pwnguin> i replaced it with a 4200+ x2
[23:28] <norsetto> nxvl: its usually called package_ubuntu.patch
[23:28] <imbrandon> nice
[23:28] <pwnguin> socket 939
[23:28] <pwnguin> imbrandon: have you seen prices lately?
[23:29] <imbrandon> cheap , yea i know
[23:29] <norsetto> nxvl: where package_ubutnu in this case will be efax-gtk_3.0.14-1ubuntu1.patch
[23:29] <pwnguin> i think you could build my current computer for close to 300
[23:29] <imbrandon> but i mostly wanna stick with refurb or buy a new quad intel
[23:29] <nxvl> norsetto: mm oh, i have see it, let me download. i have only do dget -x *.dsc
[23:29] <pwnguin> heh
[23:29] <pwnguin> quad intel
[23:29] <pwnguin> brutal
[23:29] <imbrandon> well if i'm gonna buy new i'm gonna make sure its tough
[23:30] <pwnguin> then you can go complain that there arent more multithreaded apps
[23:30] <norsetto> nxvl: you can do it manually, but you have also to download the old version from either the ubuntu or debian archives
[23:30] <imbrandon> honestly i wish i had the money for a new power6 imb based system
[23:30] <imbrandon> ibm*
[23:30] <nxvl> norsetto: and what did u recomend me to do, the manual or the guided one?
[23:31] <norsetto> nxvl: since its your first merge, I would say guided
[23:31] <pwnguin> imbrandon: anyways, i was hoping i could just apt-get install -mobile, that doesn't seem to be "in the cards"
[23:31] <nxvl> norsetto: ok, what do i need to read/download for that?
[23:31] <imbrandon> pwnguin, nah its more a bootstrap thing
[23:31] <norsetto> nvxl: but if you do some others after try manual, its really good for learning
[23:31] <jdong> pwnguin: my first complaint was that python wasn't truly multithreaded :)
[23:32] <jdong> pwnguin: second was see #1 for ruby
[23:32] <pwnguin> hurray java
[23:32] <norsetto> nxvl: http://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh
[23:32] <imbrandon> eww
[23:32] <jdong> pwnguin: Mono/Java stack immediately catched my attention after that
[23:32] <pwnguin> well, gcj sucks
[23:32] <pwnguin> we know that
[23:32] <jdong> I was more aligned with mono than Java though
[23:32] <imbrandon> c# ftw
[23:32] <pwnguin> psh
[23:32] <pwnguin> ocaml ftw
[23:32] <jdong> I liked the mono language syntaxes better
[23:32] <nxvl> norsetto: where is the docs about it?
[23:33] <imbrandon> speaking of, i should check out those new qt bindings today
[23:33] <jdong> pwnguin: gcj sucks is a well established fact :)
[23:33] <nxvl> s/is/are/
[23:33] <jdong> pwnguin: this icedtea stack is gonna be HOT :)
[23:33] <norsetto> nxvl: about what?
[23:33] <pwnguin> jdong: will it be in main?
[23:33] <nxvl> norsetto: the script
[23:33] <jdong> pwnguin: I don't know... maybe when it exits out of beta :)
[23:33] <imbrandon> jdong, does it improve java performace 1000% ? if not bleh
[23:33] <norsetto> nxvl: I'm not aware of any
[23:33] <nxvl> norsetto: or do i only need to run it on an empty folder?
[23:34] <jdong> imbrandon: is there anything wrong with Java performance under a Sun Hotspot JVM?
[23:34] <pwnguin> java performance is bad?
[23:34] <norsetto> nxvl: just chmod+x it, and run it with ./grab-merge.sh package
[23:34] <jdong> imbrandon: in computational tasks, it's often faster than C++
[23:34] <jdong> imbrandon: in desktop tasks, it's about on par...
[23:34] <pwnguin> i realize they have this stupid  -server option that means "make it run fast"
[23:34] <jdong> minus the first run's JIT
[23:34] <imbrandon> java always crawls for me
[23:34] <norsetto> nxvl: if you have a ~/bin dir put it there
[23:34] <jdong> imbrandon: what JVM(s) are you using?
[23:35] <imbrandon> sun 6
[23:35] <pwnguin> imbrandon: you sure?
[23:35] <norsetto> nxvl: otherwise I think is included in ubuntu-dev-tools
[23:35] <jdong> imbrandon: it crawls doing what?
[23:35] <imbrandon> and blackdown 1.4 on ppc
[23:35] <jdong> sun hotspot JVM's are impressively fast
[23:35] <pwnguin> imbrandon: the best part about java is that there's so many versions of it, everyone invented their own way of coping with it. ie JAVA_HOME
[23:35] <imbrandon> jdong, any java app, frostwire azureus webapps
[23:35] <imbrandon> etc
[23:35] <nxvl> norsetto: package as efax-gtk_3.0.15-1 or just as efax-gtk
[23:35] <pwnguin> azureus is just straight up huge
[23:36] <jdong> imbrandon: http://www.kano.net/javabench/data
[23:36] <norsetto> nxvl: unversioned
[23:36] <jdong> imbrandon: azureus is a pretty hefty app though....
[23:36] <nxvl> norsetto: ok, running
[23:36] <jdong> imbrandon: I don't see people praising Openoffice for being fast ;-)
[23:36] <pwnguin> it loads a huge ass graphViz thing
[23:36] <nxvl> norsetto: it will download *.14 and *.15, didn't it?
[23:36] <imbrandon> jdong, i dont use oo.o either for that reason
[23:36] <imbrandon> koffice :)
[23:37] <jdong> pwnguin: but.... don't YOU wanna see that mesh grid for vivaldi latencies?
[23:37] <jdong> :D
[23:37] <norsetto> nxvl: it should download the old debian, the old ubuntu and the new debian
[23:37] <pwnguin> im really not caring, as long as my download speed's maxed out, which it also does
[23:37] <pwnguin> i almost never hit 1:1 share ratio
[23:37] <jdong> jdong's law #1: Every process that takes a long time should have neough eye candy displayed to entertain the computer operator during that period.
[23:38] <imbrandon> pwnguin,  btlaunchmanycurses ./
[23:38] <norsetto> nxvl: and it will guess the new ubuntu which you will find as a tree already
[23:38] <imbrandon> :)
[23:38] <pwnguin> heh
[23:38] <pwnguin> that stuff's too amateur
[23:38] <jdong> Corrolary #1: We really need a Compiz backed GCC frontend
[23:38] <jdong> imbrandon: uses a disgusting amount of CPU...
[23:38] <pwnguin> i can't configure the trading algorithm etc without editing python sources
[23:38] <LeRoutier> Who should I ask to become a project driver and bug contact ? (https://launchpad.net/swfdec)
[23:38] <LeRoutier> orphan project for now
[23:38] <jdong> pwnguin: make sure you edit the sources in compliance with california laws!
[23:39] <nxvl> norsetto: is there any diference between puting it on ~/bin or in /usr/sbin/?
[23:39] <jdong> pwnguin: ifyou're coding in a car, make sure no stickers or laptop screens obstruct more than the corner 2" of your windshield :)
[23:39] <pwnguin> i havent read the sources
[23:39] <pwnguin> is the license silly?
[23:39] <norsetto> nxvl: if you are the only user of the machine, none
[23:39] <jdong> pwnguin: BT 4/5 license tells you that while using it, you have to obey California laws
[23:39] <nxvl> norsetto: so, there isn't any problem
[23:39] <pwnguin> neat
[23:39] <jdong> pwnguin: and anywhere that you host it, it has to remain up for at least 6 months :)
[23:40] <pwnguin> its been some time since ive used the regular BT
[23:40] <pwnguin> jdong: thats not so unusual
[23:40] <nxvl> norsetto: ok, it's done, now i need to read the REPORT?
[23:40] <pwnguin> gpl requires you to offer the code for like 3 years
[23:40] <norsetto> nxvl: it helps
[23:40] <nxvl> norsetto: ok, and then? i'm done?
[23:40] <jdong> pwnguin: at any rate, I'm glad Azureus finally works :)
[23:40] <pwnguin> awesome
[23:41] <pwnguin> in gutsy?
[23:41] <jdong> pwnguin: and hopefully SWT3.3 will come to ubuntu/debian soon so I can get started doing proper 3.0.3.4 packages :)
[23:41] <jdong> pwnguin: yes, I've prepared fixed packages that build under Gutsy, and posted a testing deb
[23:41] <jdong> pwnguin: waiting for e-mail convo between archive admins to see if there's any chance doing this as a SRU, if not, then backports
[23:41] <norsetto> nxvl: first, you have to understand the changes between the old ubuntu and the old debian
[23:42] <norsetto> norsetto: second, check if there is any ubuntu change already in the new debian version
[23:43] <nxvl> norsetto: mmm, i undestand that, but it's not clear how do i do that, with the .patch files?
[23:43] <norsetto> nxvl: third: apply all the remaining ubuntu changes to the new debian -> you have a new ubuntu
[23:43] <norsetto> nxvl: check what files you have in the dir, all those needed are there already
[23:44] <norsetto> nxvl: only important thing, remember to check for conflicts
[23:44] <norsetto> nxvl: gotta go now, its pretty late here
[23:44] <imbrandon> man i hate gmail, i was just about to clean out my mailbox and they go and 2x my storage
[23:44]  * imbrandon can continue to be lazy
[23:45] <norsetto> g'night all
[23:45] <imbrandon> gnight norsetto
[23:46] <nxvl> mmm
[23:47] <nxvl> anyone who want to help me merging?
[23:49] <imbrandon> nxvl, i'm bout to eat some dinner but if no one has helped you by the time i get back i will
[23:51] <nxvl> imbrandon: thnx
[23:52] <wallyweek> back only to say goodnight :)
[23:53] <imbrandon> zul, http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/fatx_test.img.gz  ping me when your back arround