[00:00] ty LjL my CTS is playing up today [00:01] !automatix [00:01] Automatix2 is 3rd-party product attempting to automate installation of additional software. When it fails and breaks systems, we don't provide support for it. A technical analysis from a Debian/Ubuntu developer can be found at http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html (See also: /msg ubotu worksforme) [00:01] for the sake of stripping a couple of letters away [00:02] (i assume the "/msg ubotu worksforme" rather than just "!worksforme" was intentional) [00:02] * popey notes that tribalwars page is busted [00:02] stops several people in #ubuntu doing !worksforme I guess [00:02] stdin: yeah i was thinking that. although it's standard practice to have "See also: !factoid"... [00:06] stdin: bah, using antiviruses for wine apps... :) [00:06] hope he doesn't submit anything :P [00:07] I would just reply with "even in wine, a virus won't really do much harm" [00:07] stdin: heh think before you say that... [00:08] if one manages to actually get a virus (and have it do any harm) on wine he doesn't need an antivirus [00:08] stdin: w32api for DeleteFileEx recursive is totally implemented... [00:08] he needs a new password [00:08] that is not known to him [00:08] jdong: the worst it can do is mess with your $HOME, and only when wine is running (it doesn't autostart apps) [00:08] wine still has no choice but to obey UNIX permissions [00:08] stdin: I believe that for the average user, messing up $HOME Can be just as devistating as installing a rootkit in /usr [00:09] stdin: uhm, i beg to differ on this "it will just mess with your $HOME concept" that i so often see stated. *just* mess with your home? that's about the only important thing i have on my system. the rest can be re-installed from CD. [00:09] personally, $HOME is about all that matters to me [00:09] the rest I can grab from a Ubuntu CD [00:09] LjL: +1 [00:09] stdin: but you are right that one must run an app in WINE that gets compromised. [00:09] which takes talent. [00:10] i.e. pebkac [00:10] the "correct" solution is some sort of DAC, like Apparmor or SELinux [00:10] jail apps to strictly the access they need [00:10] assuming full permissions of $uid is overkill for 99% of apps out there [00:10] hm i don't love that concept. but i guess that's just because of symbian :) [00:11] maybe we should make a popup saying "Something wants to open %s\nDo you want to continue?" and have it freeze the entire system while it waits :p [00:11] :) [00:11] stdin: haha, but Cancel or Allow is against GNOME HIG! [00:11] good job I don't use GNOME then ;) [00:12] stdin: or "Something wants to open %s\nPlease request a digital certificate from Canonical Inc. (cost: €500) to allow the operation" [00:12] Kancel / KPermit [00:12] LjL: or maybe, as suggested on -devel-discuss, we should turing-test the user with a CAPTCHA! [00:12] jdong: no! "Kancel / Kontinue" :) [00:12] jdong: you didn't discuss that. [00:13] at least, not seriously. [00:14] LjL: I followed up with a more serious discussion why it's not a good idea. [00:14] and I maintain that my response was equally as ludicrous as the suggestion [00:14] jdong: is it the sort of idea that needs serious arguments to be put forward against? [00:14] i se [00:14] e [00:15] LjL: considering that it was a core developer raising the idea seriously, as far as I can tell, yes it did need serious arguments... [00:15] * LjL goes install slackware [00:16] lol [00:19] hey, we could force #ubuntu users to solve a captcha before joining the real channel [00:19] we'd avoid botnets that way [00:20] (and when i say "solve", i don't just use the word in a technical sense... they've got so complicated that i could solve a crossword puzzle faster than i can read a captcha) [00:22] LjL: I still like the CAPTCHA I proposed on -devel-discuss :) [00:23] LjL: if we only allow people who can answer that in, 90% of our problems would be solved [00:23] jdong: in into -devel-discuss? [00:23] no, into #ubuntu :) [00:25] jdong: and i suppose you had a particular kind of captcha in mind? [00:27] LjL: something similar to that one I posted on -devel-discuss ;-) [00:27] jdong: ... yeah, thank you. [02:21] hey, how do i set a channel to not automatically re-op people when ops is removed? [02:22] Moniker42: probably a better question to ask in #freenode [02:22] k thanks Pici [02:22] I have no idea ;) [02:23] Pici, that's usually what "well... to be quite technical, this isn't really the channel for it..." means ;) [02:24] Moniker42: this is freenode. auto ops are not necessary at all (nor are they advised) [02:25] no, it's not exactly a serious channel though ;) [02:26] There have been problems in the past with random people coming into auto-op channels and banning everyone and doing other nefarious deeds. [02:29] hmmm [02:29] 02:29:11- DCC received CTCP SEND with invalid parameters from sekio [02:29] Seeker`: /msg seenserv seen sekio [02:30] ah, ok :) [02:30] that was quick [02:31] Seeker`: automation has only shown up in the past 150 years, so i guess so :0 [02:31] you mean peopled don't do everything manually? :O [02:40] weird, people are dropping that did not drop on the text one [02:41] so is this a botnet? [02:41] that's what they call it [02:50] if anyone wants to empty -unregged, it is all yours [02:50] jrib: go ahead :) [02:50] * jrib 's script is mia === LjL-Temp is now known as LjL [05:06] please [05:07] hmm? [05:07] extremely excessive flood in #ubuntu-br [05:07] But he go away now [05:13] someone flooded his lshw a few times in there [05:18] nalioth: veh? [05:23] nalioth: isn't lshw like a couple hundred lines per run? [05:25] jdong: it is. [05:27] how lovely :) [05:29] don't they get DC'ed for excess flood? [05:29] Jucato: not the trolls, no [05:30] bah... ubotu gets dc'ed, but no the trolls... oh the irony! [05:30] :) [05:30] Jucato: 'smart' clients don't paste at a high rate [05:35] Jucato: ... [05:35] I know I know [05:35] sheesh [05:35] and still you do it [05:35] sheesh! [05:35] ... [05:36] whumtidum [05:36] wtf was that? [05:37] nalioth: god mocking and then looks like god took his revenge, who knows [05:37] * nalioth is now totally lost. [05:37] * Tm_T hides the map [05:42] grr how am I supposed to test azureus when nobody wants the ubuntu livecd from me? [05:46] jdong, make a copy of a video and name it to sound like porn :Þ [05:48] haha [06:17] Hello all [06:17] I have kinda weird request [06:18] Your friends over in ##windows would like to host a debate on the merits of the windows v linux security model [06:18] windows has a security model? [06:18] As such, we are looking for some experts on the linux security model... [06:18] If you are interested, let me know [06:19] Madpilot: yes it does - the goal of the debate is to spread awareness of both OSs model [06:20] try #ubuntu or #ubuntu-offtopic - this channel is for channel ops & issues w/ that [06:20] I'm trying to avoid yelling at the masses [06:20] but it can't hurt! [06:20] * Cpudan80 puts on rain coat [06:27] Madpilot: ah, he's in the right place [06:27] he'll only get a bunch of trolls by asking in #ubuntu [06:28] ##windows exists to collect trolls, though? [06:29] i think it actually has merit (the idea) [06:29] the actual production of the idea, may have entirely different consequences [06:31] well, ya. a public IRC channel isn't the greatest venue for a reasoned in-depth debate on Linux vs Windows [06:31] nalioth: do you have any familiarity with what kind of channel ##windows is? [06:31] I mean, if it's not a braindead monkeyfest, I'd be happy to volunteer [06:31] jdong: i've been a channel op by nick there longer than i've been on staff. [06:32] so, i reckon i've got an idear :) [06:32] nalioth: is it an environment where one can actually have this kind of discussion without "windows sucks" and "linux doesn't work with any hardware" once every 2 seconds? === Moniker42 is now known as Moniker42_away [06:32] jdong: i imagine the debate would take place in a moderated channel [06:33] hopefully [06:33] I think it's a good discussion topic and there's a lot to learn and discuss [06:34] because no channel is safe from "my [blank] is bigger/better/etc than your [blank]" [06:35] true [06:35] true [06:35] too bad I'm extremely busy these coming two weeks === Mez is now known as Mez|Away [09:30] In ubotu, Jordan_U said: dual boot is Dual boot instructions: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot (x86/AMD64) - Macs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YabootConfigurationForMacintoshPowerPCsDualBoot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MacBook === Mez|Away is now known as Mez [11:21] !NTFS [11:21] ntfs is To view your Windows/Mac partitions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions . For NTFS write access see !ntfs-3g or !fuse [11:39] Why is Ubuntu so wack? I have just installed my NFTS drive, and then i want to make it writeable, and then it makes an error, and y drive is gone, and even if i reboot, the drive is not there! [11:39] y = the* [11:41] Why is Ubuntu so wack? I have just mounted my NFTS drive (External) and then i want to make it writeable, and then it makes an error, and the drive is gone, and i cant mount it again because it says its stille in /etc/fstab? [11:41] still* [11:42] @btlogin [11:47] In #ubuntu, Irreducibilis said: ubotu: What is e to the i pi squared? === Mez is now known as Mez|Away === Mez|Away is now known as Mez [12:25] MenZa called the ops in #ubuntu [12:26] * Pici slaps irssi for not syncing and thus not allowing him to ban [12:27] Pici, lol - I got the second one [12:27] I saw :) [13:47] What's the policy on offensive nicks? [13:47] (see arschloch in #ubuntu) [13:48] * MenZa pokes Amaranth [13:49] How is that offensive? [13:49] It means "asshole" in German, excuse the language. [13:50] he changed it [13:50] ah right [14:27] !NTFS [14:27] ntfs is To view your Windows/Mac partitions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions . For NTFS write access see !ntfs-3g or !fuse [14:31] Hey Sp0tUb? [14:31] Yes? [14:31] Reboot, BRB [14:36] PriceChild: may be something to do with his part message ; [14:36] ) [14:36] aha [14:37] !NTFS [14:37] Sp0tUb, Hey there. [14:37] ntfs is To view your Windows/Mac partitions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions . For NTFS write access see !ntfs-3g or !fuse [14:37] Sp0tUb, please change your quit message. [14:37] Why?' [14:38] Did i brake some rules? [14:38] Well because you are banned from #ubuntu.... probably because of that, but I will have to check that. [14:38] No. its because i had bad meaning about Ubuntu [14:39] Well either way, this is not a channel to mess abuot with ubotu :) [14:39] They banned me because i told about all my problems running Ubuntu on my new laptop [14:39] No "they" didn't. [14:39] Im on Qnet normally, thats why i use that Q-message :-) [14:39] Ok, one person did [14:40] Still not the reason. [14:40] Im only here because Ubuntu makes my life hard :-D [14:40] No? [14:40] No. [14:40] Then tell me what it was when you know it better than me :-) [14:41] Sp0tUb, the ban was for trolling. [14:42] I came here to get the NTFS link like u se, but now its the last time! ;-) I bookmark it! :-D [14:42] If you wanted help, and asked questions in order to gain support. You would not have been banned. [14:42] Trolling? Whats that? [14:42] However you made such statements as "2007-10-21T16:28:29 nosc, but linux SUXX" [14:42] Which is trolling. [14:42] I did, people fucked up my system by telling me crap [14:43] Ahh, telling the truth is trolling? :-) [14:43] * denny laughs [14:43] hey denny. [14:43] hiya [14:44] Sp0tUb, Ban won't be lifted at this time sorry. See also "/msg ubotu msgthebot". Any further business here? [14:45] sorry, was just popping in to check the banlist here - got someone trying to figure out how to access #ubuntu with tor/cgiatwork/some other alternative [14:45] Ah yes. [14:45] Sp0tUb [14:46] !proxy [14:46] The #ubuntu channel and related channels ban users joining from anonymous gateways like tor/silenceisdefeat/cgi:irc because the abuse:useful ratio is close to infinity:nothing -- project cloaks will let you join, otherwise you should simply not use an anonymizer. [14:46] Attention tor users. You may think you are anonymous, but you are not. Please visit http://tor.unixgu.ru/ and see for yourself. Please evaluate your need to use tor here on irc. If you wish anonymity, Freenode offers cloaks of many different types. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks [14:46] bah not that one [14:46] !tor-gpg [14:46] You can use tor and still access #ubuntu and other channels that have tor blocked. How? Read http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml#tor to find out how to bypass all the tor hassles on freenode. [14:46] There we go... he's having trouble getting that going and I'm clueless. [14:46] gah... ubstud not Sp0tUb [14:47] That ban seemed a bit unfair :/ [14:48] it was because some people were constantly joining/parting in here, all @gateway/tor/* [14:48] couple days ago iirc [14:48] ah k [14:48] meh, can set it again later if it fails [14:49] Hey [14:49] Hey there ubstud. [14:49] I've followed the directions to join #ubuntu using tor, but it still leads to me the same #ubuntu-proxy page [14:50] I asked on #freenode and they're leading me to you guys [14:50] ubstud, you're not using the tor-gpg service provided by #freenode. [14:51] I followed exactly everything on this page: http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml#tor [14:51] I set my proxy to socks5 and connected to the server with .onion at the end [14:51] ubstud, evidently not if your hostmask hasn't changed :/ [14:51] Is there something I'm doing wrong? [14:52] Well there must be seen as it isn't working. [14:52] should I try connecting again? [14:53] I've very little experience with tor/tor-gpg but afaik, if you connect to freenode's tor-gpg server correctly, your hostmask will reflect as much. [14:53] oh [14:53] hold on let me try connecting again [14:54] Gah, I've got to run to a lecture, hope there's someone around to help if/when he returns. [14:54] * mc44 wonders why people need to use tor for a support channel [14:54] maybe they work for MS [14:55] same thing? [14:55] this is what xchat shows though [14:55] still not right [14:55] * Looking up mejokbp2brhw4omd.onion [14:55] * Looking up localhost [14:55] * Connecting to localhost (127.0.0.1) port 9050... [14:55] * Connected. Now logging in... [14:55] I have to run sorry. [14:55] ok np [14:56] anyone else here? [14:58] I gotta go. hopefully we can fix this tomorrow [15:27] !ops [15:27] Help! Mez, LjL, elkbuntu, imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, ompaul, Madpilot, Seveas, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti, mneptok or Pici [15:27] Hobbsee called the ops in #ubuntu-ops [15:27] FYI: open week is on in half an hour, and will last a week [15:27] ? [15:27] hi [15:27] so, if people could sit in #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat, that'd be good [15:28] i think all ubuntu members have ops [15:28] yep [15:29] hmm, /me should do that some time [15:29] yep cleaning up iceape a bit and than i will be there [15:29] do what call !ops in -ops? [15:29] ;) [15:30] gnomefreak: :) [15:31] gnomefreak: i dont think the aussies will stay around and clean up the mess, this time. [15:31] i doubt it [15:31] righty.. do you want me to "do" -classroom? [15:32] i will see how long i can stay but should be here while screwing up/cleaning up package [15:33] popey: i'tll just be a question of getting enough people who know what theyr'e doing to get coverage over the entire thing [15:34] indeed [15:34] * Hobbsee hands out +z's. [15:35] ok, I get the point, everyone on Planet is posessed by the N810 and Maemo, now can we please stop and go back to Ubuntu topics? [15:35] this is bordering on absurdity that every 3rd post is a 10-page article on the maemo [15:37] jdong: didnt you know - p.u.c got took over by planet Maemo [15:37] * gnomefreak doesnt have a clue what that is (thankfully i think) [15:39] Mez: lol if I wanted to go to a distro planet swarmed by evangelism of related but completely off-tangent stuff, I'd visit planet Suse [15:39] lol [15:40] what the heck the picture of the guadec meeting, the guy in the foreground is using a macbook pro obviously running OS X [15:44] jdong: afaik the N810 runs ubuntu [15:47] Amaranth: meh ok fine, then they get 2 ads :) [15:49] jdong: I know we have maemo in Ubuntu because of them, anyway [15:53] ok http://popey.com/~alan/%23ubuntu-classroom.log and http://popey.com/~alan/%23ubuntu-classroom-chat.log update each minute [15:54] will figure out how to split days at some point [16:11] * jdong wants to write a script for rigging readahead optimizations for app/desktop load times, but feels the words "automatic script to do .*" have lost the appeal [16:29] * PriceChild is in [16:31] * Pici is around [16:31] What are you in? [16:32] Just in :) [16:33] stop it, you people are feeding me innuendos... [16:33] Hey knifehat, how can I help/ [16:33] I updated my route firmware, can I get tested for that dcc exploit? [16:34] Since when is it *I* and not *we*? [16:34] knifehat, that didn't fix it, use port 8001 [16:34] nice.. [16:34] Where can I get more info about the exploit? [16:34] /msg ubotu dcc [16:35] Why will using a different port fix it? [16:35] Thanks [16:35] because your router just won't try to read 8001 [16:45] OK, can I get tested again plz? [16:46] And, can where can I get more technical information about the exploit? The FixDCCExploit page doesn't have much information other than ways to avoid the exploit.. [16:53] connect to port 8001 to avoid the exploit, as it says on the page [16:55] I am now [16:55] I don't want a work around [16:56] I wanna know specifically what's being exploited so I can do a bug report with my IRC client (if it hasn't been already) [16:56] Does it involve a DCC get with a filesize of 0? [16:57] it's a bug in your routers firmware, the manufacture should fix it [16:58] nothing to do with the client [16:58] Yikes [16:58] OK, thanks [16:58] But, I'm connected to 8001, can I not get redirected to #ubuntu-read-topic now? [16:59] I don't have op in #ubuntu, so stick around for a while for another op to unban you [16:59] stdin: did you test him? [16:59] Pici: no [16:59] I dont have my test macros here.. [17:00] KnifeHat: give me a minute. [17:01] KnifeHat: you look good, one second. [17:02] grr.. [17:06] can another op take over after this session in #ubuntu-classroom? in about 55 mins [17:10] I cant do anything in #ubuntu, keeps giving me the channel not synced error. [17:11] hmmm [17:11] Pici: can't you just op then do /mode #ubuntu -b [17:11] I wonder am I still on !ops on #ubuntu [17:12] Pici: /cycle will normally fix that if you use irssi [17:12] stdin: that worked. [17:12] tomaw: that didnt. [17:12] KnifeHat: you're unbanned now. [17:13] it's the manual way, but it works ;) [17:13] I tried it before, but must have screwed up the syntax some way. [17:13] hrm, odd [17:19] simonp: i don't see a ban matching that address to be honest [17:19] Hello. It seems that my (dynamic) IP is banned from #ubuntu. What can I go to get the ban lifted? [17:19] simonp: oh, i see what the problem is [17:20] [18:19:54] *** LjL-Temp sets mode: -b *!*lol*@* <-- a rather wide ban isn't it [17:20] oops! ;) [17:20] simonp: sorry, you're free to rejoin now [17:20] still banned [17:20] err, perhaps you aren't [17:20] LjL-Temp: Yes, but it also says [17:20] ChanServ sets mode: +o LjL ChanServ sets mode: +b *!*lol*@* [17:21] simonp: it's set as a permanent ban. let me see what i can do [17:21] * Pici shrugs [17:27] simonp: you should be able to join now [17:31] thanks [17:32] any other nick should be able to join too? [17:32] simonp: should be. [17:32] simonp: what do you mean? [17:32] cool. thank you very much [17:32] LjL, my roomate got xim as a nick [17:32] i see, yes it should be possible for him to join [17:32] ok [17:34] simonp: please leave this channel if you have no other operators-related questions, as we'd like to easily tell who's looking for us in here [17:35] LjL-Temp: you're still opped in #ubuntu fyi [17:36] thanks [17:39] ok [17:40] when he asked about "any other nick", i had like a dozen alarms bells going off in my head... :| [17:42] LjL-Temp: wasn't there a guy last week who had about 5 names all the same with _ before and after, like nick nick_ _nick and _nick_ that where all banned [17:42] /nick wii? [17:42] ikonia: happens often enough... but *lol* just seems a bit too much to me [17:43] yes, suspicious [17:43] hence why I wondered if it was the same guy [17:44] wii can change his ident :) [17:46] LjL-Temp: then claim his evil twin whats-his-name was trying to get in? [17:46] ah right, wii was that pain in the neck guy [17:46] yeah, mii [17:46] surly wii's evil twin is PS3 ? [17:47] i don't think he's that subtle [17:48] kenthomson ? [17:48] ikonia: but... he found Christ and vows to behave now! [17:48] oh yes, I'd forgot about that, he just wanted to contribute [17:48] did he get unbanned from the forums or re-sign up i the end [17:49] I can't remember if he's still banned form #ubuntu, I don't think so [17:49] ikonia: I gave him the procedure to appeal to the forum council, he never followed up [17:49] ahhh right [17:49] I never get the trolling thing, as you just get banned then your "fun" is over [17:49] not really because you can start being someone else [17:49] then if you ever want/need the resource for a genuine reasons your screwed [17:50] but you have to start again as someone who is unknown [17:50] I think they just get a kick out of the cat-and-mouse game [17:50] rather than a team/community member that people know won't mess around on you, so give you the help you want back [17:50] perhaps I'm just a tad old so don't get it [17:50] jdong: you are probably right [17:51] nothing better to do and mum won't buy them alchol or the new pair of nike's to hang out with the cool kids [17:52] however, some people I've seen don't fit under that category [17:52] some just have a really screwed up way of expecting how order works. [17:52] I'd really love to meet some of those types in real life [17:52] it'd be a blast [17:53] as in they think they are right ? [17:53] ikonia: as in, they don't believe in authority or the need for rules [17:54] ah [17:55] but even rules you dn't agree with you have to play by to participate in life [17:55] thats nothing to do with ubuntu/irc/anything thats just how the world is, and I can't see many people getting far with that beliefe [17:55] belief [17:56] What happened to doing the +mz thing and voicing only the person running the session (and the person pulling in questions if it isn't an op) [17:56] (open week) [17:57] Amaranth: dunno, even in the last open weeks, some people preferred to have their sessions unmoderated [17:57] Should be opt-out [17:58] Look, people are starting to disrupt the session [17:58] Amaranth: asked soren already? [17:59] hm well the session is almost up anyway [17:59] Doesn't really work if the person isn't in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [17:59] yeah [17:59] just set +m "by default" next session [17:59] Next session will be locked down unless mrevell says otherwise [18:00] Amaranth: what sort of topics are covered in thes esession ? [18:00] these sessions even [18:00] All sorts of things [18:00] as in the class-room [18:00] ranging from ? it it basic ubuntu basics, or does the topic move/get decided on by $X [18:01] popey: stay +o please :) [18:01] ok [18:01] ikonia: I think they have a schedule. [18:01] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek [18:01] popey: I'm going to be eating lunch but I'll try to help [18:02] I can stick around [18:02] rawr popey, your time is over, bow down and get out the way of amaranth :P [18:02] heh [18:02] Pici: thanks [18:02] popey: Ideally the person running the session would be in #ubuntu-classroom-chat too [18:02] sure [18:02] To do the follow up stuff and to pull over questions on their own if the ops are busy [18:02] didn't spot that soren wasnt [18:03] i was picking out questions and putting them in a text file [18:03] makes it easier to paste them as required [18:03] popey: thank you, I've just book marked some session [18:04]