[03:07] <sbalneav> Evening all
[07:51] <RichEd> great edubuntu review: Microsoft matters less every 6 months
[07:51] <RichEd> http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1280
[07:51] <jeromesg> hi
[07:52] <RichEd> hi js
[07:54] <jeromesg> nice write up :)
[07:55] <RichEd> jeromesg: he is a champion of ours ... is in love with our LTSP
[07:58] <jeromesg> i havent been using ltsp lately, doing mostly servers
[07:58] <jeromesg> not much on desktops
[07:59] <kgoetz> ltsp+pxe ftw
[10:49] <arnadelo> has anyone installed edubuntu 7.10 with ltsp server
[11:40] <osl> Hi everybody , i am facing a problem in starting X on a terminal , can anyone help ??
[11:44] <desertc> I don't know, but #ubuntu generally answers technical questions.
[11:45] <osl> desertc, it's about LTSP
[11:55] <RichEd> osl: also ask in #ltsp ... that is the same implementation as ours
[13:22] <sbalneav> Morning all
[13:36] <ogra_cmpc> hey sbalneav
[13:40] <sbalneav> How's it going ogra?  Getting geeked yet?
[13:46] <ogra_cmpc> all scripts and modifications for cmpc are done
[13:46] <ogra_cmpc> now i need to create packages for that
[13:47] <ogra_cmpc> beyond that i only need the code for the notetaking app (RichEd ?) and to write a little installer
[13:48] <sbalneav> Notetaking app?
[13:48] <ogra_cmpc> the squashfs and initramfs for gutsy are done ,,, switching to virtual 800x600 screen works (i wrote a little panel applet for that) aned its properly installable
[13:49] <ogra_cmpc> for that clippable scanner device that you can clip on a sheet of paper
[13:49] <sbalneav> Oh, I don't have that little widget :)
[13:49] <ogra_cmpc> it reads the inpout from the device and transfers what you wrote to a canvas that you can save as bitmap remember ?
[13:50] <ogra_cmpc> but intel had it when they presented cmpc
[13:50] <sbalneav> Yeah, I heard people talk about it but I never saw it.
[13:50] <sbalneav> in action at least.
[13:50] <sbalneav> Cool.  Should I bring my CMPC with me?
[13:51] <ogra_cmpc> i would write an app myself (especially since theirs was gtk1.2 iirc) but i dont know anything about hid programming
[13:51] <sbalneav> Do we have the source for the old one?
[13:51] <ogra_cmpc> if you want a gutsy image, bring it, yes :)
[13:51] <ogra_cmpc> no
[13:51] <ogra_cmpc> i'm waiting for the source
[13:51] <sbalneav> I'll need a 2 gig memory stick too, yes?
[13:51] <sbalneav> You get the speed problem sorted out?
[13:52] <ogra_cmpc> no, i'll bring several
[13:52] <sbalneav> You will?
[13:52] <ogra_cmpc> we'LL INSTALL IT ON TEHN INTERNAL DISK
[13:52] <ogra_cmpc> OOPS
[13:52] <sbalneav> Yo've got a 1 gig image?
[13:52] <ogra_cmpc> not yet
[13:52] <sbalneav> oh, but you will?
[13:53] <ogra_cmpc> the one the installer script will use will be a 1gig one
[13:53] <sbalneav> cool.
[13:53] <ogra_cmpc> probably only 600M
[13:53] <sbalneav> Wow!
[13:53] <sbalneav> Good job!
[13:53] <ogra_cmpc> depends how smart i'm with teh script
[13:53] <sbalneav> What did the slowness turn out to be?
[13:53] <ogra_cmpc> the installed system will in any case be 1gig
[13:53] <ogra_cmpc> the slowness is still there
[13:54] <ogra_cmpc> its kless slow and well usable with one or two a\pps running
[13:54] <sbalneav> Is it a "disk speed" issue or a "processor speed" issue?
[13:54] <ogra_cmpc> both :)
[13:54] <ogra_cmpc> no L2 cache in the CPU limits the IO there oretty much
[13:55] <ogra_cmpc> and teh flashdisk is slow by design
[13:55] <sbalneav> right
[13:55] <ogra_cmpc> if i dont disable the disk cache in FF and try to load planet it takes about 5min
[13:56] <ogra_cmpc> without disk cache its usable (still around 1min but significantly different)
[13:56] <sbalneav> Oh, BTW, is mdke a canonical employee?
[13:56] <ogra_cmpc> not that i know
[13:56] <ogra_cmpc> at least not yet
[13:56] <ogra_cmpc> why ?
[13:56] <sbalneav> We need to get him to re-run whatever magic to get the new handbook up on the website
[13:56] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[13:57] <sbalneav> Wonder if he's in #ubuntu-doc
[13:57] <ogra_cmpc> ivf he's here he likely is
[13:57] <ogra_cmpc> here==online
[13:59] <sbalneav> Just pinged him, I'll keep an eye out for him today.
[13:59] <ogra_cmpc> i was going through a list with possible specs today
[14:00] <sbalneav> Cool!  We have some up on the site? I need to sit down and bang a few in.
[14:00] <sbalneav> brb coffee
[14:01] <ogra_cmpc> no
[14:01] <ogra_cmpc> not yet
[14:01] <ogra_cmpc> what i have so far:
[14:01] <ogra_cmpc> - virtual-hal-devices
[14:01] <ogra_cmpc> - localapps
[14:01] <ogra_cmpc> - gui frontends for ltsp tools
[14:02] <ogra_cmpc> any additions are welcome :)
[14:39] <sbalneav> ogra_cmpc: Bug #156229 seems kind of weird, eh?  I can't see why that would hang.
[14:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156229 in ltsp "ltsp_config hanging in NFS_root environment" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156229
[14:40] <ogra_cmpc> me neither
[15:36] <RichEd> hi ogra / ogra_cmpc
[15:36] <ogra_cmpc> hey
[15:36] <RichEd> that medibuntu thread is a bit sad
[15:36] <ogra_cmpc> ah well
[15:36] <ogra_cmpc> we cant control the derivatives users build
[15:36] <RichEd> we cannot be called in to be police over "a set of personal laws"
[15:36] <RichEd> exactly
[15:37] <ogra_cmpc> and we cant deny wiki access
[15:37] <RichEd> and there is a strong moral issue behind that all ... i always say that if someone is allowed to browse the world cup soccer site at work, then a babe site is just another "non-work" use of facilities
[15:38] <RichEd> to say which is right or wrong is not an absolute call
[15:38] <ogra_cmpc> right
[15:38] <ogra_cmpc> and not up to us if we have defined that space as public wiki
[15:39] <ogra_cmpc> he could go to teh CC with teh issue or so to have it discussed and find a policy thqat makes everyone happy
[15:39] <RichEd> yep ... otherwise we end up curtailing freedom of expression ... once you say that ABC is not acceptable, then, the door is open for any other decision about "stuff we don't like"
[15:39] <ogra_cmpc> or he could ask medibuntu to put the hotbabe stuff not on the frontpage
[15:40] <RichEd> if you allow a christian ubuntu, we should also allow a druid and pagan ubuntu etc.
[15:40] <ogra_cmpc> mubuntu exists already :)
[15:40] <ogra_cmpc> i wouldnt object druidbuntu or paganbuntu ,,,,
[15:41] <ogra_cmpc> kkkbuntu would probably not coc conform though :)
[15:41] <ogra_cmpc> *not be
[15:41] <ogra_cmpc> but beyond that i love to see new derivativews
[15:44] <RichEd> should i respond to the email thread, or is it better to let that sort of stuff die a natural death ?
[15:45] <sbalneav> mediabuntu thread?  Link?
[15:46] <ogra_cmpc> a mail to all of the people listed on teh edubuntu.org contacts page
[15:46] <ogra_cmpc> complaining about a link from teh ubuntu wiki to the medibuntu frontpage
[15:47] <ogra_cmpc> they advertise their hotbabe package
[15:47] <ogra_cmpc> directly on teh frontpage
[15:49] <ogra_cmpc> yay !
[15:50]  * ogra_cmpc just got a phonecall .... if i return from boston they'll install my new SDSL line here\
[15:52] <ogra> thats better
[15:59] <RichEd> ogra: if i return from boston <- well with your travel luck that's only 95% certain
[16:01] <ogra> i have direct flights this time
[16:01] <ogra> and both with reliable lufthansa
[16:01] <ogra> *but*
[16:01] <ogra> german train conductors are on strike
[16:02] <ogra> so my flights should be fine, i'm just not sure i can reach them in time (or return home afterwards)
[16:28] <stgraber> ogra: :)
[16:29] <ogra> taxi frankfurt -> kassel is doable for 300 euros :P
[16:29]  * ogra did that once when he was totally desparate
[16:29] <stgraber> ouch
[16:30] <ogra> it wasnt my most expensive taxi ride :)
[16:33] <sbalneav> What WAS your most expensive taxi ride?
[16:33]  * sbalneav is now curious
[16:34] <ogra> 340
[16:34] <ogra> for about 500km
[16:35] <ogra> which is quite a good rate still ... for a taxi
[16:35] <sbalneav> 500 km taxi ride?! Wow
[16:36] <ogra> well, it was 250 each direction and he had relatives in hamburg so he pikcked me up teh next day for return and we justified a fixed price
[16:38] <ogra> with the train situation in .de i'm really considering to buy a cheap car for the winter
[18:14] <highvoltage> LaserJock: ping
[18:18] <LaserJock_> highvoltage: here
[18:19] <LaserJock_> highvoltage: bah, one sec
[18:19] <highvoltage> ok
[18:20] <LaserJock> ok
[18:20] <LaserJock> I forgot I had irssi on my other machine still running
[18:20] <highvoltage> ah :)
[18:43] <pips1> LaserJock: highvoltage I'm here
[18:43] <LaserJock> pips1: hi
[18:43] <highvoltage> pips1: ah, great
[18:44] <pips1> hi there
[18:44] <highvoltage> pips1: since you have write permissions, can you get https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~newz/fridge/fridge-theme-v2
[18:44] <highvoltage> pips1: and install it and create a user that uses that theme so that we can see how it affects things?
[18:47] <pips1> ok
[18:48] <pips1> I'm currently busy fetching the theme
[18:54] <pips1> erm, this sure takes a while
[18:54] <LaserJock> yep
[18:54] <LaserJock> welcome to bzr :-)
[19:10] <pips1> highvoltage: I have enabled the theme for your existing theme-testing user
[19:11] <pips1> now I need to cook diner for my better half :-)
[19:11] <pips1> dinner
[19:11] <pips1> LaserJock: ^^^
[19:12] <pips1> ok guys, cu later
[19:19] <pips1> erm, there fridge seems really scrambles things up well... :-/
[19:32] <pips1> cu folks
[20:10] <nixternal> ogra: if you are around, it seems it is your turn in the classroom
[20:14]  * desertc watches the Edubuntu presentation in #ubuntu-classroom ....
[20:31] <desertc> Anyone want to talk about Edubuntu for a half an hour?
[20:32] <LaserJock> what's going on?
[20:32] <desertc> Oliver Grawert who was scheduled to talk in #ubuntu-classroom is a no show.  Still a half-hour of the session left.
[20:34] <desertc> LaserJock: Thanks.
[20:35] <stgraber> desertc: I probably can answer some questions about Edubuntu but I'm not ogra and my answers won't be as accurate has him
[20:35] <stgraber> desertc: I'm more of the LTSP server part
[20:36] <desertc> stgraber: you may want to join the channel, and the -chat, too
[20:36] <stgraber> desertc: already on -classroom, will join -chat too
[20:37] <juliux> RichEd, ping?
[20:38] <stgraber> LaserJock: want help for the LTSP questions ?
[20:40] <LaserJock> stgraber: probably
[20:57] <desertc> This Moodle: [ http://www.moodle.org ] is insanely popular with educators.  Y'all could do worse than to weave that open source software into Edubuntu.   It would be a great selling point.
[21:07] <LaserJock> desertc: we do have it
[21:07] <LaserJock> desertc: but it has issues so we couldn't do it by default in Gutsy
[21:08] <LaserJock> desertc: we'll have it for Hardy
[21:08] <desertc> I attended a couple teacher conferences, and they could not stop talking about Moodle.  But they seem to have trouble maintaining the packages, since it updates so often.
[21:08] <LaserJock> yes, and was a security nightmare
[21:09] <LaserJock> we did a lot of work on our packages for gutsy
[21:09] <desertc> If there was a distro that maintained Moodle with a series of other applications, then teachers would feel good about using that distro.
[21:09] <LaserJock> and now it's in Main
[21:09] <desertc> That's great to hear!
[21:09] <LaserJock> so for Hardy it should be ready to go, installed by default
[21:10] <alteroo> Wow
[21:11] <alteroo> Most amount of people I've ever seen in here I think :)
[21:11] <desertc> You could probably get Edubuntu into schools just on being the Moodle-distro alone.
[21:11] <nixternal> I would have to agree with that one...I am seeing Moodle more and more here being used
[21:12] <desertc> I'm just going to say it... it's Moodle-insanity.  ;)  Everyone is moving from Blackboard to Moodle.
[21:12] <LaserJock> yes
[21:12] <LaserJock> that's why we've put a lot of effort into it
[21:12] <desertc> But NONE of them budget a support cost around the transition.
[21:13] <nixternal> desertc: ya, our university just switched from crap, to crap, I mean blackboard, except the IT division, they went with Moodle
[21:13] <desertc> (Problem with selling Linux as a cost savings rather than a feature improvement.)
[21:13] <shane_> hi all!
[21:13] <lavender_dream> One question that also coincided with what I was mainly curious about Edubuntu was asked by someone but wasn't answered due to time constraint/etc. That is: Regarding the content of the educational programs in edubuntu do you plan on expanding the content in edubuntu to college level?
[21:14] <desertc> So there is a real opportunity for a distro that supports Moodle really well.
[21:14] <LaserJock> lavender_dream: yes
[21:14] <desertc> Can you get it on a LiveCD, I wonder?
[21:15] <LaserJock> lavender_dream: I'm a PhD student and very keen on getting Edubuntu into universities
[21:15] <LaserJock> I've been working, albeit slowly, on getting more uni level applications in
[21:15] <LaserJock> desertc: yes, as I said, Hardy should have it :-)
[21:16] <LaserJock> not on a LiveCD though
[21:16] <desertc> Crazy question: Do you see any way to tie Ubuntu LoCos into the Edubuntu distro?  Putting a plug into Edubuntu letting kids know about ways they can get involved with the world-wide open source community?
[21:16] <LaserJock> as it requires database setup etc. and is really a server app
[21:16] <LaserJock> well, we'd certainly like to
[21:16] <LaserJock> as always, the problem is having enough hands to do it
[21:17] <desertc> Imagine if students started understanding about the FOSS community in school....  *far away look in his eyes*
[21:17] <LaserJock> so if you have any suggestions of people ... ;-)
[21:20] <shane_> Will Edubuntu have a more simplistic interface, maybe as an option for younger children (<6yrs)? along the lines of sugar....
[21:21] <desertc> I am interested in helping out the Edubuntu team more.  So I will reserve the remainder of my questions until later.
[21:22] <nealmcb> the leader of the https://edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-study-content/ team, MauricioHernandez, hasn't responded to emails or approved new members in a long time, though it seems like a very worthwhile team.  Does anyone know him?
[21:25] <LaserJock> shane_: I'm really not sure. We don't have any current plans for that
[21:25] <LaserJock> nealmcb: I know him
[21:25] <LaserJock> nealmcb: he's not really active anymore. Real life got him
[21:26] <LaserJock> nealmcb: if you'd like to join or get that going please email edubuntu-devel
[21:28] <nealmcb> LaserJock: thanks.  musashi1 has a similar team now, I forget the name, so maybe he'll pick it up.  I just hate it when dozens of people volunteer for a team that is stuck in the mud because only a single person is an admin.  They should have some sort of multiple-admin guideline in launchpad....
[21:29] <musashi1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolSupport
[21:29] <nealmcb> :-)
[21:29] <musashi1> or https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-school-support
[21:30] <musashi1> and yes, we are stuck in the mud :)
[21:30] <nealmcb> lol
[21:30] <musashi1> wait, wrong one
[21:30] <nealmcb> I sure know my eyes are bigger, and my head better at nodding "yes", than my hands and feet can manage :-)
[21:31] <musashi1> https://launchpad.net/~education-enthusiasts
[21:31] <musashi1> though the other one is a good idea too
[21:31] <nealmcb> more teams!  we need more teams!  :-)
[21:31] <nealmcb> lets appoint a committee - that will solve it :-)
[21:34] <shane_> if i may butt in with a few few questions... I would like to deploy Edubuntu at my mothers school using LTSP since most of the current machines are meant for win 98 and prior.
[21:34]  * musashi1 is still wondering if there are efforts in canonical or the community to help further develop educational apps that are good but not "there yet"
[21:35] <shane_> what kind of hardware considerations will i have to make?
[21:35] <shane_> would i just have to plug everything in and it would work?
[21:36] <shane_> i am more concerned about the x terminal sideof things.
[21:37] <musashi1> shane_: based on my lab, a decent server with enough memory to match clients, clients that PXE boot are easier to handle but etherboot also works. other than that it "just worked" for us on old circa win98 clients
[21:37] <musashi1> and a new server
[21:38] <shane_> yes i think a new server can be organized...
[21:38] <musashi1> the whole thing has to be wired through switches too
[21:38] <shane_> does LTSP do load sharing between the server and clients?
[21:39] <musashi1> i don't know that...someone else ^^
[21:41] <shane_> since I will be using x terminals... how is the sound handled for each terminal? since the app is run on the server...
[21:41] <shane_> kids games do need the sound for the full effect :)
[21:42] <musashi1> i'm not sure i know what you mean by x-terms but in our lab the sound worked out of the client speakers. i suspect headphones would work too but didn't try
[21:43] <hippu> no reason it wouldn't
[21:43] <shane_> well i suppose you used boxes that were meant to be used as x terminals... i'm thinking of using old computers... booting off the network...
[21:44] <musashi1> shane_: that is exactly what we are doing
[21:44] <shane_> oh cool
[21:44] <musashi1> old computers
[21:44] <musashi1> and new server
[21:44] <musashi1> old server == really slow :)
[21:45] <shane_> :)
[21:45] <shane_> and in terms of system admin? because i will not be there.. and no one there has ever used Linux...
[21:45] <LaserJock> musashi1: regarding your question about edu apps. I think if there were enough people we'd be interested in help upstreams
[21:46] <LaserJock> Edubuntu essentially became a good chunk of upstream for LTSP for a while
[21:46] <musashi1> so really no attempt to "improve" the included tools
[21:46] <LaserJock> well
[21:46] <LaserJock> I guess the answer is pretty much no
[21:47] <LaserJock> we've essentially got 2 people to do technical work
[21:47] <shane_> thanks guys... i'm off...
[21:47] <musashi1> it would be really nice if there could be some push to move some of the ed apps forward
[21:47] <musashi1> not sure how to do that though
[21:49] <LaserJock> yeah, it's not an easy thing
[21:52] <desertc> LaserJock: Ever thought of including a library of ebooks with Edubuntu?  Use a couple dozen megabytes to distribute some of the best Public Domain books?
[21:53] <LaserJock> well, we've even thought about Wikipedia
[21:53] <LaserJock> there are issues that come up though
[21:54] <LaserJock> disc space is a big problem
[21:54] <LaserJock> you also have to maintain and support it
[21:54] <desertc> How about just mentioning the resources somewhere?
[21:55] <desertc> A lot of people don't realize there are 10000s of freely available ebooks at the Univ of Virginia
[21:55] <musashi1> built in links?
[21:56] <desertc> Seems like including references to great educational material available on the Internet would be a sensible thing for an educational operating system!
[21:57] <LaserJock> well, I'm trying to work on a menuing system that will all much more "linkability"
[21:57] <LaserJock> *allow
[21:59] <desertc> Neat!
[22:00] <LaserJock> it's not very easy
[22:00] <LaserJock> Gnome doesn't support links in the menu :(
[22:01] <musashi1> what about a few really good links built into firefox ala portable aps
[22:01] <LaserJock> that's certainly doable I think
[22:01] <desertc> musashi1: That's a sensible idea.
[22:02] <LaserJock> the focus for Edubuntu has been in getting a really guood educational platform
[22:02] <musashi1> it's a least a start
[22:02] <LaserJock> i.e. server bits, LTSP, etc.
[22:02] <LaserJock> once we have that down I think content will become a bigger focus
[22:02] <musashi1> it's a good (great) platform. now we need it to be attractive to teachers. if teachers want the apps they will pressure the districts to get it
[22:04] <musashi1> right now it's only seen as a cheap windows lab (note: windows labs are usually just used to type papers and surf the web) we need it to be something that windows doesn't offer...a set of outstanding a free software that teachers see as benefical to instruction