[00:00] but couldn't test it as Ubufox uses Ubuntu's apt db to look for such markers in control files [00:00] and my packages aren't in for now [00:05] hum, 14x14 pixels, I guess we'll have to ask our artist to make some custom icons for launchpad [00:05] nevermind, got the original svgs [00:19] ddaa, https://edge.launchpad.net/swfdec/ now fully branded, driver & bug contacts filled. All links & descriptions fixed. Thanks for the help [00:20] Lovely. [00:20] BTW, if you ever stop working on swfdec, I think the considerate thing woud be to give it back to registry. [00:21] Maybe with a launchpad-users message. [00:21] no problem, I won't let it rote [00:21] No doubt, just spreading a meme. [00:22] anyway, it's 1:30AM here, time to sleep a bit, somethings tells me I'll have to wake up to go to work in a few hours [00:22] bye everyone === mwh_ is now known as mwh === kiko is now known as kiko-zzz === RAOF_ is now known as RAOF [03:02] !seen mrevell [03:02] Sorry, I don't know anything about seen mrevell - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [03:03] what's matthew revell's nick? [03:04] ubotu: time? [03:04] Sorry, I don't know anything about time? - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [03:16] andrew____: you have his nick right "mrevell" [03:16] andrew____: he runs on UK time [03:17] oh right, i guess he's sleeping now. thanks [06:23] how do you print your ssh keys for launchpad [06:27] corevette, on your person page, click on where it says "1 SSH key(s)" [06:40] hello mpt [06:46] hi poolie [06:56] * thumper settles down and waits for the reviewer meeting with a glass of pinot gris [06:56] oh damn [06:56] I knew I wasn't prepped for something [06:56] spiv: btw, reviewer meeting [06:57] thumper: care to run it today? I'm making commit 25% faster [06:57] lifeless: I'm pinot gris'ed [06:57] not sure I could run out of a paper bag today [06:57] * thumper looks at spiv [06:57] jamesh: care to run it today? [06:57] spiv just ran out to get lunch [06:58] lunch at 5pm? [07:00] == Asiapac reviewer meeting == [07:00] * thumper has taken the liberty of renaming it [07:00] == Agenda == [07:00] * Roll call [07:00] * Next meeting [07:00] * Action items [07:00] * Queue status [07:00] * The 'needs mentoring' flag [07:00] * Mentoring update [07:00] so [07:00] * Roll call [07:00] BjornT: ping [07:00] jamesh: ping [07:00] spiv: ping [07:00] hi [07:01] jml is on holiday [07:01] jtv isn't around for some reason [07:01] blargh [07:01] I claim my fingers are here. [07:01] and lifeless [07:01] hi [07:01] spiv is out to get lunch [07:01] so he'll have to catch up [07:01] * Next meeting [07:01] many of us will be in Boston [07:02] jml will be around [07:02] but who else [07:02] ? [07:02] isn't jml on leave? [07:02] now he is [07:02] but not next Tuesday [07:02] lifeless: are you at UDS? [07:02] yes [07:02] spiv will be around I guess [07:03] but there isn't much point of a meeting with spiv and jml alone [07:03] so, next meeting the Tuesday after all hands? [07:03] yes [07:03] done [07:03] * Action items [07:03] there appears to be only one outstanding [07:04] about jml talking to SteveA about the no param methods being properties on views [07:04] since he isn't around, we'll skip this bit [07:04] * Queue status [07:04] * thumper checks [07:04] I count 7 and 4 overdue [07:05] 2 unallocated [07:05] and two of the overdue are my 1.1.11 branches [07:05] so no rush there [07:05] jtv has one overdue but he isn't around and I can't nag him [07:05] and other one is for .EU/US [07:06] * The 'needs mentoring' flag [07:06] this seems to be hung over from last week [07:06] IIRC barry has a '*' to fix this [07:06] jamesh: what does the pending reviews script do with a merge-conditional* ? [07:07] I don't think it does anything with it yet. I need to fix that [07:07] ok [07:07] shall I action you to do this? [07:07] yep [07:07] ok [07:07] * Mentoring update [07:07] anyone mentoring? [07:07] jamesh: going ok? [07:08] thumper: pong [07:08] * spiv catches up [07:08] * thumper has almost finished his glass [07:08] there are a bunch I need to go over. [07:09] spiv: when you've caught up, how's the mentoring going? [07:09] It's going well. [07:10] good [07:10] It's going smoothly enough that I don't have any issues to raise :) [07:10] * [https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/151304 Bug 151304]; any takers? [07:10] Launchpad bug 151304 in launchpad "Pending-reviews script should email the launchpad reviewers list when a branch misses the SLA" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151304 [07:10] Launchpad bug 151304 in launchpad "Pending-reviews script should email the launchpad reviewers list when a branch misses the SLA" [Undecided,New] [07:10] New bug: #156107 in rosetta ""Plural Forms" section on language page is awkward" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156107 [07:11] * thumper will take that as a no for now [07:11] * sinzui: mpt asks what is the reason for no trailing whitespace? Is there really a problem with a line that only has whitespace (preserving the indentation of the previous block)? [07:11] comments? [07:12] personally I don't like it as I have it showing up red [07:13] Really, I don't care much about this issue either way. [07:13] That was discussed at the previous reviewer meeting [07:13] mpt: .au or .us? [07:13] errrrr, .us I guess [07:13] whichever one barry was at [07:13] mpt: that was the other guys :) [07:13] and the result was discussed on launchpad@ [07:13] we like to shove our oar in too [07:14] oh, carry on then :-) [07:14] mpt: no comments from .au people though [07:14] I don't really have much to add to the comments on the list. [07:14] So, what I suggested to sinzui before he brought it up [07:15] is that those people with editors that highlight trailing whitespace tweak them to highlight trailing whitespace only on non-blank lines [07:15] mpt: noted [07:15] mpt: there is a problem with changes on such lines [07:15] and also, and this is worth noting, it affects sequence matching during diff [07:16] thus affecting when conflicts appear [07:16] Right, a line that is changed unnecessarily is bad regardless of what kind of change it is [07:16] lifeless: worth considering [07:16] mpt: thats not what I said [07:16] mpt: in fact an unchanged all whitespace line can be a problem. [07:16] ok, then I don't understand what you mean by "sequence matching" [07:17] Are you saying that diff treats empty lines specially? [07:17] mpt: no, that it doesn't [07:17] spaces are not empty [07:17] semantics... [07:18] so two visually the same lines that separate functions that are not the same will lead to a failure to match [07:18] lifeless: are you saying that we'll get better/worse/different diffs and conflicts if we allow/disallow lines with just whitespace? (cross out any that don't apply ;) [07:18] I'm using "empty" to refer to a line that has nothing in it (except a LF/CR/whatever), and "blank" to refer to a line that has either nothing or only whitespace in it [07:18] I haven't analysed it carefully enough, been up for > 13 hours now. But I think better if you enforce 'an empty line has length 1' [07:19] then 'a blank line must be empty' is the rule I would suggest/require. [07:19] or using mpt's words blank has length 1 [07:19] right [07:19] ok [07:19] next [07:19] * mwhudson: should we insist on the summary->blank->description convention for test method's docstrings? [07:19] lifeless: funny, my off-the-top-of-my-head guess would be the opposite. [07:20] if this hasn't been mentioned on list it should be [07:20] I find PEP-8 sometimes too restrictive when trying to write test method docstrings [07:20] I don't really like docstrings for tests [07:21] some test runners produce horrid output if the test methods have docstrings [07:21] I prefer comments. But thats me. [07:21] jamesh: not ours, though. [07:21] e.g. the cscvs test runner [07:21] jamesh: well, thats trivially tunable. Its a pyunit knob. [07:21] I'm happy with comments rather than docstrings [07:21] i also provide comments for test methods. if docstrings are used, they should be properly formatted, though. [07:21] I don't think a docstring's summary should be restricted to what fits on one line. [07:21] s/provide/prefer/ [07:21] I'm with BjornT [07:21] (test method or not) [07:22] OK, to summaries, comment or docstring is fine, but if docstring, follow PEP-8? [07:22] summarise [07:22] that would be my vote. [07:22] or zed for you americans (zee) [07:22] which btw, doesn't conflict with what spiv said. [07:23] If docstrings, follow the same docstring style we use everywhere else. [07:23] thumper: well, you mean PEP-257, don't you? [07:23] lifeless: PEP-8 says docstring summary on one line doesn't it? [07:23] BjornT: perhaps [07:23] thumper: it also says pragmatic over purity [07:23] thumper: IIRC PEP-8 defers docstring style to PEP-257 [07:23] * thumper bows to the PEP masters [07:24] lifeless: I like that part of it [07:24] I don't. Summaries short be as short as they can be, but no shorter. [07:24] * any other business? === doko_ is now known as doko [07:24] No other business from me. [07:25] ok, I'll get the minutes out tomorrow morning (I'm done) [07:25] == Meeting Over == [07:25] thanks thumper [07:25] thumper: thanks [07:50] New bug: #156117 in launchpad "PPA declares some packages published while they aren't" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156117 [07:55] New bug: #156118 in launchpad "Launchpad lists packages which are not available in a specific release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156118 [08:18] why does PPA compare md5sums of packages uploaded, example the reject mail makes it sound like its comparing md5sum of package~ppa1 and package~ppa2 (they are gonna be differnet) [08:19] Rejected: [08:19] MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive [08:19] Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification. [08:31] gnomefreak: you can't reuse a version you've already used [08:31] i didnt [08:31] ppa1 and pp2 [08:31] modified orig.tar.gz maybe? [08:31] PPA should not compare them [08:32] * jamesh is guessing [08:32] jamesh: its a differnet tarball but same contents since they were made the same way [08:32] shouldn't be uploading orig tarball anyway, unless its a new upstream release, and then it shouldn't already be in ubuntu. [08:32] but you are uploading a different tarball with the same name? [08:33] jamesh: yes until i find a way to get the upload without uploading tarball as it failed when i tried it a month ago or so [08:33] gnomefreak: how would you store both versions of the package in the same archive then? [08:33] they have the same contents they were made with same script [08:34] jamesh: the tarball should get overwrote with new upload [08:34] if you upload a new tarball [08:34] wouldn't that break the MD5 sums from the old .dsc then? [08:35] why would it care about old .dsc since im uploading a new one [08:35] once again it should be overwritten [08:36] http://pastebin.mozilla.org/223970 from that output why would PPA give a damn about ppa1 at all [08:36] it has no reason to compare the 2 releases [08:37] gnomefreak: why can't you use the old orig.tar.gz for the new package? [08:37] gnomefreak: it seems like a problem with your process [08:37] jamesh: because it was borked [08:37] okay then. Upload a different tarball with a different name [08:37] ppa1 failed to build [08:38] gnomefreak: wouldn't that just require a different .diff.gz? [08:38] gnomefreak: ppa's act like a normal archive. [08:38] so your telling me ppa doesnt overwrite existing if you upload another tarball? [08:38] gnomefreak: exactly. [08:39] gnomefreak: if you have 5 versions of a package in the archive based on the same pristine tarball, the pristine tarball is stored once [08:39] why wouldnt it? in that case maybe have PPA check to see if tarball are same name and not push it with dput [08:39] gnomefreak: dput only pushes it if you tell it too or it thinks its an initial upload. [08:39] so tell me how to upload everything but tarball [08:40] gnomefreak: #ubuntu-motu might be a better channel for this [08:40] * jamesh is not sure why the .orig.tar.gz is changing on gnomefreak's machine [08:40] jamesh: i had to remake it [08:40] the first one is borked thats why ppa1 failed to build [08:41] so it was a partial upload or something? [08:41] i had to remake it and since this is going in official archives i cant change name of tarball [08:41] no [08:42] the first tarball was made incorrectly by rules file hence borked so i needed to upload new one. [08:43] oh and dput doesnt seem to have a way to leave tarball out of push [08:43] so by dput'ing the sources.changes is always gonna grab tarball sitting there [08:55] Lp admins still cant remove packages from PPA right? [09:25] New bug: #156144 in launchpad "login should be redirected from *.launchpad.net to launchpad.net" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156144 [11:03] mrevell: ping [11:03] sabdfl: Hi [11:03] gnomefreak: i think they can, or will shortly, be able to remove packages using an admin script on request [11:03] mrevell: want to sync on the release message? [11:05] sabdfl: Would you mind if we do that in an hour? Or are you not available then? [11:05] mrevell: noon is fine [11:05] sabdfl: Thanks. [11:25] hey sabdfl :) [11:26] hey, mailbomber :-) [11:26] gave me a hell of a surprise there [11:26] i liked the gentoo bits, particularly [11:27] heh [11:27] I had great fun writing that up [11:27] I think I should post it in the planet [11:29] sabdfl: My son has just fallen on his head and I have to take him to the hospital. I'm sorry but I'm unlikely to be back for midday. I'll ping you as soon as I'm back. I've mailed some quick ideas regarding what I tihnk we should cover in the announcement. === mrevell is now known as mrevell-hospital [11:29] Yikes. Sorry. [11:31] mrevell-hospital: hope he's all ok. [11:31] np === kiko-zzz is now known as kiko === barry-away is now known as barry [12:55] New bug: #156202 in rosetta "TextBoxes are aligned out of page in IE" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156202 [13:15] New bug: #156207 in launchpad "OOPS merging an already merged team" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156207 [13:31] New bug: #156217 in launchpad "Timeout merging big teams" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156217 [13:42] sabdfl: ty [13:42] does PPA support hardy packages? [13:44] gnomefreak: it will, as soon as Hardy supports Hardy packages ;-) [13:44] ;) [13:44] there's a bootstrap process for a new release, currently under way [13:44] cool ty [13:44] as soon as Hardy is switched to being in Development, not Frozen, you should be able to upload PPA packages for it [13:45] oh ok so PPA follows reg devel processes [13:45] yes [13:45] sweet [13:45] should do, in any event, it's a bug if it does not [13:52] good morning Hobbsee [13:53] hiya [13:55] * carlos -> lunch === stdin_ is now known as stdin [14:11] New bug: #156228 in launchpad "admin page to change milestone details contains two 'Series' select box" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156228 [15:00] hi all [15:01] does anybody know how to assign a team to a project ? I have created a team and I have also created a project. now i want to assign the team to that project, how do i accomplish that ? [15:01] saifi: what do you intend to accomplish by this association? [15:02] make the team a part of the project. [15:02] and what would that imply? [15:02] saifi: you can set the team to be bug contact for the project [15:02] which means the team would be automatically subscribed to all bugs [15:03] ok [15:03] and there's something similar for answers and translations [15:03] what i understood from the documentation is that the team can be made the driver of the project. [15:03] team members can play different roles depending on the tasks at hand. [15:04] oh, driver can bet set in the projects +edit form, i think [15:05] ok so while I am logged in as team admin, I visit the project page which I created, is that what you are implying ? [15:05] yes [15:07] this looks a little strange. [15:07] the society registered a project and created a team. [15:07] https://launchpad.net/%7Etwincling [15:08] and the project is at https://launchpad.net/fabio/ [15:08] but the project page does not show the project being registered by it. Instead it shows it as being registered by one of the members ! [15:09] so while TWINCLING is the Driver, it is not the owner. which is not correct. [15:12] saifi, the registrant can change the owner. [15:12] saifi, who registered '/fabio'? [15:13] twincling registered fabio on 6/10 [15:13] today sumit registered as a user as we are starting work. [15:14] and now it shows him as the person who registered it. [15:15] no. [15:15] saifi, that's not possible. teams can't register projects. [15:15] what happened is that sumit registered that project [15:16] and he needs to reassign it to the team now, if that's what you want. [15:16] New bug: #156258 in malone "'reported bugs' view does not contain all my reported bugs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156258 [15:16] dupe. [15:16] kiko yes we want it to be assigned to the team. [15:18] saifi, he should "Change Owner", then. [15:19] thanks kiko, let me ask sumit to do that. thanks once again. [15:20] no probs [15:28] kiko how do we transfer registration from one user to another ? [15:29] kiko is it by changing the maintainer information ? === cprov is now known as cprov-lunch [15:30] New bug: #156263 in launchpad "Allow deactivation of distributions" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156263 [15:30] New bug: #156264 in soyuz "one broken buildd can break the sequencer taking all builds offline" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156264 [15:31] thanks kiko, we managed it by changing th maintainer ! [15:31] great. === mrevell-hospital is now known as mrevell [15:55] New bug: #156271 in launchpad "Allow administrators to reactivate disabled projects" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156271 === matsubara is now known as matsubara-lunch === cprov-lunch is now known as cprov [16:42] sabdfl: Hi. Would you like to talk about the release announcement? (Doctor says everything seems to be okay with my son, by the way.) === mrevell changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net | Next developer meeting: Thu 25 Oct 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: http://tinyurl.com/2wmogh === mrevell changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net | Next developer meeting: Thu 25 Oct 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters === matsubara-lunch is now known as matsubara [17:00] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vodovod -> OOPS-661EA77 [17:06] Kmos: I can't find a package called vodovod [17:08] mrevell: it exists [17:08] hmm.. maybe it doesn't exist [17:09] apt-cache show vodovod don't show anything? i'm not at linux now [17:10] i need to request it [17:11] well, it doesnt appear to exist, so attempting to get a page of a project that doesnt exist is futile. [17:18] it will be in hardy =) [17:20] if it gets packaged, and passes qa, yes. [17:26] what group do you have to be a memfer from in order to set the importance of launchpad bugs? [17:27] Hobbsee: it's on debian =) [17:30] bbl [17:32] Isn't that team the launchpad-bugs team? How do you become a member? [17:35] anyone? Is there no one who knows the answer, despite so many are online? [17:35] qense: what are you trying to do? [17:36] I would really like to help with launchpad, with bugs(solving them, triaging them) or with other things [17:36] I am already a member of the beta testers [17:39] qense: unfortunately, the launchpad team doesn't accept outside members, but you are, of course, more than welcome to help with reporting, commenting, etc'... [17:39] ok [17:39] I'll try to help as much as possible [17:40] qense: you need to be a part of ubuntu-qa (or whatever it's been renamed to now). see #ubuntu-bugs for more info. [17:40] I applied for them [17:40] it's now ubuntu-bugcontrol === flacoste is now known as flacoste_lunch [17:41] Hobbsee: I think qense did mean "Launchpad the project", not Ubuntu. [17:41] ah yes, that's right [17:41] ddaa: oh, whoops. [17:41] :) [17:41] so he did. ignore me then. [17:41] np, I imagine lots of users do not make the distinction [17:42] like those whole file tickets on launchpad about ubuntu installation problems... [17:42] yeah, well. that's probably because people dont read. [17:42] A lot of people don't know launchpad can be used for other projects too [17:42] People do not read. [17:42] i've taken to pasting the entire team description in the declination letter, for one of my teams now. [17:42] That's rule 0 of UI design. [17:42] yeah well. [17:43] I think rule 1 is something like "I mean, they REALLY do not read" [17:43] and rule 2 is "But they'll complain if there's no documentation not to read." [17:43] i'm pondering changing the team to moderated, and saying "if you want membership, please email me at foo@bar, and tell me in a sentence who this team is for" [17:43] i've had around 6 people so far, in the past few days, who havent read the team description before attempting to join. [17:44] Launchpad should support this kind of workflow (so you do not have to another communication channel) [17:44] but I can only agree with the idea, I have seen people joining teams for the "strangest" reasons. [17:45] Like, people not realizing how launchpad is not facebook... [17:45] or people collecting team badges [17:46] mmm....badges. [17:46] what team do you moderate hobbsee? [17:47] By the way, can you already merge your forum account whit the one in launchpad? I don't know how to test it whn you can't merge [17:47] I use another account on the forum with a different username [17:47] geser: ubuntu-universe-sponsors [17:48] I believe forums are completely separate from launchpad [17:48] actually, canonical has nothing to do at all with the forums, it's purely a community initiatitev. [17:49] I heard something about a merge with the forum accounts [17:49] Hobbsee: what about u-u-s? [17:49] I don't rememeber the feature specification, I'll look for it [17:49] That's something that may happen in the future, but it's not an issue at the moment. [17:49] i.e. you do not need to worry about it [17:49] geser: the number of people who cant damned well read. [17:50] right. fixed. https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors [17:51] geser: do you think that will stop people? ^ [17:53] ddaa: think i'll have more luck with that? [17:54] Purest Hobbsee style. [17:54] ddaa: yeah, well. [17:54] Did you learn interpersonal skills on lkml? :) [17:54] ddaa: iv'e done more than enough retail to know how stupid people are. [17:55] ddaa: did you know, i had a guy who didnt understand the concept of per-kilo measurements, for fruit? [17:55] We have plenty of smart people at he company who don't. [17:55] They won't only talk pounds and ounces. [17:56] s/won't/will/ [17:56] ddaa: he didnt get the concept that it was not all a flat price, no matter if he bought 2 tomatoes, or 20. [17:56] Hobbsee: Dunno. I think so non-MOTUs might feel all rejected and stuff. [17:57] This seems to be spinning forever doing nothing: bzr merge https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jamesh/storm/reconnect [17:57] ScottK: if they cant read a description, they won't get far when dealing with problems that they encounter, so... [17:57] Am I doing something wrong? [17:57] TBH, I have idea what this team is for. [17:57] jkakar: you're probably missing a dot. [17:57] ddaa: read the description. :) [17:57] The description gives some information about what it is not. [17:57] * ScottK forgot [17:57] ddaa: This team is restricted to developers - if you have questions, please ask in #ubuntu-motu on IRC or ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com. [17:57] ddaa: it seems that isnt clear enough? [17:57] Hobbsee: Uh. What?! :) [17:58] Hobbsee: does this 90 days expiry for u-u-s only apply to new members? [17:58] Hobbsee: you mean "If you want to know what this team is for, ask in #ubuntu-motu, on IRC or..." ? [17:58] jkakar: oh, seems that you don't need to supply both merge dirs. [17:58] Hobbsee: Right. I'm running that in a working tree, so the merge-into dir is implicit. [17:59] ddaa: first half of it, i was thinking mroe. [17:59] although, technically, they could all be developers. [17:59] geser: unsure. i think it's everyone. [17:59] The weird thing is that Bazaar doesn't show any progress indicator and doesn't respond to C-c. I eventually have to C-\ to kill it. === barry is now known as barry-lunch [17:59] Hobbsee: okay it's a team for developers, but it does not tell me what it is for. === barry-lunch is now known as barry-away [18:00] Hobbsee: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+members lists an expiry date only for recent members, the most people don't have one [18:00] Maybe, just maybe, was the communication problem was one of an unclear description of the team? [18:00] geser: hmm, fair enough. [18:00] ddaa: perhaps. [18:00] ddaa: it's for sponsorship of patches for universe and multiverse [18:01] (and is documented in w.u.c/UbuntuDevelopment [18:01] ) [18:01] I think the important things to answer would be something like: [18:01] "What would you join this team" [18:01]