nysosymHi there09:51
nysosymwhat's better for creating high resolution icons, vektor art or pixel art?09:52
nysosymthe ground question is, how is it possible to create such realistic stuff like that? http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1879/pageskw2qq0.png09:53
nothlitcreating realism is all about understanding form and light09:54
nothlitand using references if needed09:54
nothliticons can be created in any way you want as long as you can produce the sizes needed09:55
nothlitfor small icons you will need to snap to the pixel grid with inkscape or optimise with a raster editor09:55
nothlitthe tango page should have tips09:55
nothlitsnap to half units with linework09:56
nothlitnysosym: about your ichat icon, fix the warble at the bottom and take out the upper hilight, the inner reflection already gives you depth, its more important to show the space09:57
nothlitnysosym: and enlarge the chat icon, selectively for small sizes if you wish09:57
nothlitanyways there will be significant optimisation needed if you want clearcut icons at all the standard sizes09:57
nothlitwell, not significant, but it does take footwork09:57
nysosymnothlit: yes, i have optimized the icon for small every size (256, 128, 64, 48, 32, 16)09:58
nysosymi think it looks fine now at every kind of size09:59
lassegulnothlit: hi there10:09
nothlitlassegul: heyas10:13
nothlitlassegul: sup10:27
lassegulnothlit: my internet connection is troubling me. Its up and down like a jojo. I hope I can get it working by thursday. whats up with you?10:33
nothlitfluxbuntu busyness10:35
nothlitthe new site is launched, its looking good http://fluxbuntu.org , troy_s did the design and corevette the javascript effects10:35
nothlitlassegul: i just made a few quick edits with some mythbuntu stuff troy is working on10:36
lassegulwow. that didnt go well in IE :)10:37
nothlitlassegul: ie7?10:37
nothlitlassegul: theres a non js version as well10:37
lassegulnothlit: its really nice.10:39
nothlitlassegul: how do you, an ISP employee have trouble with the internet lol :(10:49
nothlitthat spells lots of trouble for the rest of us10:49
lassegulnothlit: lol. If you only knew... I had to yell and shout to get a technician, a colleague, to have a look at my connection before sometime after the first of november :S11:12
lasseguli just realised you can adjust the visual quality of gaussian blur in inkscape last night. That makes the program 500x faster.11:39
nothliti did that for the longest time, but when i pumped it backup up to highest i found no difference :o11:44
nothlitmaybe different svn version11:44
mhbhi folks11:54
mhbkwwii: hmm, was there a specific reason why the meeting time is in the UTC afternoon? Ah, youll be at the UDS, right.11:55
mhbby the way, are we still staying with the Human icon theme in Hardy?12:01
nysosymnothlit: here is a completely redone version. http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4267/previewic2.png12:06
nysosymignore that, here is the right version (with shadow)12:11
kwwiimhb: mainly because of UDS12:30
kwwiimhb: not sure about Human yet or not, it depends on what else we have12:31
mhbkwwii: I am tinkering a bit (as much as school allows) with Human in the last few days12:32
mhbkwwii: I would like to make it a bit complete, like exporting the SVG images into more sizes and vectorizing some of the images12:32
kwwiimhb: even if we are to change, we are a long way away from that...at this point it is only an idea which we will discuss at UDS12:34
kwwiiI made a blueprint for it yesterday, still working on a wiki page to explain the idea12:34
mhbpersonally, I think the icons are one of the best parts of the Ubuntu artwork12:35
mhbeven though their main weakness is their small number and no SVGs12:35
kwwiiquite a few people think that they would fit better with gnome if they followed the tango guidelines12:36
mhbthat's what the tangerine theme is for, isn't it?12:37
mhbthe orange tango, as I like to call it12:37
mhbtoo bad the meeting is so early12:39
mhbkwwii: I think the icons are the best example of the "Human" principle in the Human theme, they appear warm and friendly, unlike many other icon sets, especially Tango, which still borrows on the "industrial" GNOME look (all my humble opinion).12:43
mhbOn the other hand, I have always felt the rest of the theme (window decoration and widget style) to lack this "humanity", even though it may be very hard to incorporate the feel into a technical thing like a widget style.12:44
mhbwell, I have to go, I am afraid. See you later, folks! And keep up whatever you are doing for Ubuntu!12:46
_MMA_Wow. Where did all the people go? :) "I want my animal wallpaper!!!" "You guys are teh suck!!!" But where are they now? ;)14:01
nothlitdigg effect fades fast14:02
nothlitand how long can they harp on the same issue, especially when its dealt with as well as possible given the circumstances14:02
_MMA_Its always "dealt with as well as possible given the circumstances" but they go through this every release.14:03
_MMA_Another idea Im working on. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Misc/test2.resized.png and http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Misc/test3.resized.png14:07
nothlit_MMA_: the second one could be quite interesting once you get a sense of depth between the backdrop and the logo14:14
_MMA_nothlit: I am leaning toward something like the 2nd one but I dont know if I want to separate the logo from the background. Some people dont link obvious branding so I might just try to make it subtle.14:17
nothlitif you want to make it subtle make sure the linework isn't there at all, or isn't so thin compared to everything else, and fix up the perspective14:19
nothlitother than that you might want to play with the inkscape filters and get a subtle inset effect14:19
_MMA_Dropping the outline almost made it disappear so I was looking at making it thicker to better match the weight of the background.14:20
lasseguli keep focusing on the black vertical line in the middle with all the details, probably where the original photo has its focus.14:24
kwwiihi guys14:25
lassegulmaybe keeping the detail/focus a little more even?14:25
kwwii_MMA_: my favrorite of those two is test2.resized.png14:25
_MMA_Hi lassegul, kwwii.14:26
_MMA_kwwii: Don't think it's too "brand-heavy"?14:29
kwwii_MMA_: probably but it does look better than the other version :-)14:30
kwwii_MMA_: I really liked the work you did with the head of the amp14:30
kwwiithe speaker mesh alone seems to simple for a wallpaper14:31
kwwiiperhaps you could move the logo down into the bottom right and not perspectively scale it14:31
kwwiiso that the logo is directly on the blue part without the mesh14:31
kwwiiin case anyone is interested I am working on 3 blueprints on launchpad and the corresponding wiki pages14:32
kwwiihardy-icon-theme, art-team, and hardy-theme (launchpad blueprint names)14:32
_MMA_Yeah. I did that also. Still tinkering with that ides also. :)14:32
_MMA_Thing is, since Im doing the work now, I'll be reluctant to give up the idea later. I want others to contribute but Im bored now and wanna work. :)14:33
kwwiiyeah, getting contribution in so far in advance seems to be our downfall14:34
kwwiieveryone wants to contribute at the last minute once they have seen the work of others14:34
kwwiibut by that time the work is almost done, the ideas are solid and most of the new stuff does not fit14:34
_MMA_Thats why Im *trying* to just throw out ideas, but I like the ideas and wanna go with them. :)14:35
kwwiiyeah, I know the feeling14:36
nothlit_MMA_: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/speakersubtle.png14:41
nothlitsomething like that, if you use the svgs you can make the effect more sophisticated but i just threw what was on the wiki together in layers14:42
nothlit=/ darn, the perspective is off on that14:42
_MMA_nothlit: Sure. I got he idea.14:42
nothlitanyways, you guys have a strong image now, i don't think make people search for the branding a bit is a bad idea at all14:43
kwwiiactually, I would argue that the wallpaper is a poor place for explicit branding14:44
_MMA_Thing is I gotta keep the style right. While I get your idea I cant use that photo.14:44
_MMA_Its too real.14:44
kwwiiand has way too much detail anyway, I think14:47
_MMA_Heah. I like the image but I gotts get close the that "photocopied" look.14:48
nothlithead in whatever direction you feel is right! :)14:50
_MMA_This SVG with the Marshal head is KILLING my RAM.14:51
_MMA_I need another GB stick.14:51
kwwiithat is one of the biggest problems with inkscape14:52
kwwiimakes it hard to be creative when you are limited in the size of the SVG14:52
* _MMA_ has forgot how to mess with perspective in Inkscape.:-/14:52
_MMA_kwwii: Yeah. Im working with a full-size 2560x1600 image.14:53
nothlit_MMA_: theres the perspective plugin as long as you're only modifying one path14:54
kwwiiI am not sure that you can scale perpectively in inkscape14:54
nothlittheres a youtube video on it, this guy has inkscape howto's as part of his blog14:54
* _MMA_ wishes he could be the sabdfl of GIMP/Inkscape.14:55
kwwiihrm, that plugin does not seem to work in Gutsy14:55
nothlitdo you have all the python math plugins needed?14:55
_MMA_And what happened to the shadow plugin that I was once upon a time?14:56
kwwiinothlit: which python math plugins?14:57
_MMA_(man Im dyslexic)14:58
kwwiiahhh python-numpy14:58
nothlitnot sure, but svn has offset+ blur +combine14:58
nothlityou can create a filter for that14:58
* _MMA_ wonders if python-numpy should be made a depend.14:59
kwwiigreat that we install a package with plugins listed in the menu which do not work without installing things per hand14:59
nothlitrecommend perhaps14:59
nothlitnot depends14:59
_MMA_Yeah. That's better.14:59
nothlitdoesn't the error output tell you which one you need?14:59
kwwiiall it says some crytpic stuff and then "numpy is not installed"15:00
nothlit_MMA_: http://ryanler.wordpress.com/2007/08/08/156/15:00
nothlithe actually doesn't do it in one filter, you can run combine instead of duplicating i think15:01
kwwiiI got it to work but I cannot say I understand it15:01
kwwiiyou should see the perspective scaling tool in illustrator15:01
kwwiiit simply rocks15:01
kwwiione reason I still use it15:01
_MMA_nothlit: Wow. Thats a nice page.15:02
nothlit_MMA_: this should help you understand whats going on http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#AnExample15:04
nothlit_MMA_: and some of the other docs http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Filter_Effects15:05
troy_sperspective in inkscape merely requires a little understanding of a matrix.15:24
kwwiilol, that is exactly what an artist has15:25
kwwiinothing like making things more complicated to hinder the artistic process15:25
* kwwii is off for a while...15:26
troy_swell... having studied art... i know a few people who do.15:26
kwwiiit is my sons' 10th birthday, time to watch him open presents15:26
_MMA_Yay \o/ 10. :)15:27
troy_s10 is a pretty crazy age.15:27
troy_sone part kid one part teenager... its the monster from the creek.15:28
troy_smost artist would probably just draw perspective anyways... ;)15:29
kwwiiyeah, that was going to be my first suggestion15:30
kwwiimy wife took him to the doctor because he got pimples..the doctor told her "well, puberty is starting" - I think she almost fainted15:31
kwwiianyway../me is out for a while15:31
mhbevening folks17:09
mhbkwwii: who are the voices behind pushing Human away?17:20
kwwiimhb: nobody in particular, why do you ask?18:19
mhbkwwii: I would like to discuss it18:19
mhband/or read about their opinion18:19
nothlitmhb: start up a discussion on the mailing list18:20
nothlittimelag will create a lot of redundancy here18:21
mhbnothlit: okay.18:21
kwwiimhb: the main reasons behind the idea are 1) it is looking somewhat stale and 2) it does not fit with the gnome and tango icons18:29
_MMA_kwwii: Can you get me a macro shot of a head/needle playing a record?18:35
kwwii_MMA_: sure, if I had a record player :p18:36
kwwii_MMA_: I could head to a store tomorrow and take a pic18:36
kwwiiI'll bring my gear to boston as well so if you want any photos bring stuff with you18:37
_MMA_If you have the time. needle on the right if possible.18:37
_MMA_Yeah. Im sure I could find a indie record shop with a player.18:37
kwwiiif nothing else we could do it then18:37
kwwiiso you want the arm coming from the left or the right?18:38
kwwiiI'll see what I can do18:38
_MMA_Something like this maybe. Probably closer. http://www.ewsaunders.com/images/recordplaying.jpg18:40
_MMA_More record than arm but with the record out of focus.18:40
kwwiiright, my macro lense is really good at creating a very shallow depth of field18:41
kwwiiI have to go downtown anyway so I'll stop by the local indie record shop and see if they'll let me take a pic18:42
kwwiipretty sure they won't have a problem with it18:42
_MMA_Naa... Not usually.18:42
kwwiiI find that if you offer to give the shop a copy they are happy to help18:42
mhbkwwii: hmm, it seems you are one of the ubuntu-art-pkg. If I created a script resizing icons (similar to the one you did for Oxygen) would you merge those icons?19:50
mhbspeaking of human-icon-theme, of course19:51
kwwiimhb: as long as we do not modify any of the existing icons and reduce their quality, sure20:00
mhbkwwii: no, it's just for the non-existent ones20:03
kwwiiright, I thought that but just wanted to be sure I said it :-)20:05
kwwiialso, we would not want to include something of obviously poor quality - some of the svgs might not render well at all sizes20:06
kwwiiso you'll probably have to go through and eyeball them all20:06
kwwiimhb: btw, the plan for the new icons is not written in stone (yet) so there is also a chance that we would simply update the existing icons are such20:07
mhbI still kind of like the idea of a computer interface for Humans, which goes well with the basics of Ubuntu and the ubuntu philosophy and all20:12
mhbalso going Tango would make us more like SLED .o)20:13
mhbwe'll see about what the majority thinks20:13
nothlitno distro has domain over tango20:15
mhbno, that was a semi-joke20:15
mhbnothlit: the serious part is well described in your comment too - no distro has domain over tango, or more precisely, no distro can have an original look and feel with it20:16
mhband whether we like it or not, we want Ubuntu to compete with other distributions, too - and having a "different" GNOME than others is a part of that20:21
kwwiimhb: well put20:37
kwwiiwow, this filter effects interface is pretty nice20:41
_MMA_Is that the one nothlit was talking about?20:43
kwwii_MMA_: yeah20:44
kwwiifor someone who knows a bit of what they are doing it is very *effect-ive20:45
_MMA_WTF? Why does "python-numpy" have the depends it does?20:50
_MMA_-dev packages? gcc3.4base?20:50
_MMA_12.4mb worth of new packages.20:51
_MMA_nothlit: And "python-numpy" is already a "Recommend" of Inkscape. :)20:54
kwwii_MMA_: yeah, I was wondering the same thing20:55
nothlitkwwii: do you know the name of the community artwork package?22:00
kwwiinothlit: nope, I have not made it yet :p22:02
kwwiiI was going to take care of that tomorrow22:02
nothlitoh lol22:02
kwwiiprobably something like gutsy-community-wallpapers22:03
nothliti was trying to recommend it to people who were looking for more than the default22:03
nothlitoh ok, thanks22:03
kwwiiafter I create the package it will still take a bit of time before it appears in universe22:03
kwwiibut I will do that asap22:03
kwwiitomorrow is my last day of work before next week so I have to get it done by then22:04
nothlitif you haven't made the package, i have aspect ratio versions here, plus a faded edge one for 4:3 and 16:9 https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/wallpapers/  if you feel the need to supply that sort of thing22:14
nothlitalso a few more people have put stuff on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Gutsy (top and bottom)22:18
kwwiiright, that is why I waited until Gutsy was released to make the package22:18
kwwiithat and the fact that I had hoped that someone would help :-)22:20
nothlitsnagging developers all the way out here is hard lol22:26
kwwiithe funny thing is that if you talk to developers about things they always say "sure, we would love to help" but when you really need help none are to be found22:33
* kwwii is off for the night23:10

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