[09:51] <nysosym> Hi there
[09:52] <nysosym> what's better for creating high resolution icons, vektor art or pixel art?
[09:53] <nysosym> the ground question is, how is it possible to create such realistic stuff like that? http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1879/pageskw2qq0.png
[09:54] <nothlit> creating realism is all about understanding form and light
[09:54] <nothlit> and using references if needed
[09:55] <nothlit> icons can be created in any way you want as long as you can produce the sizes needed
[09:55] <nothlit> for small icons you will need to snap to the pixel grid with inkscape or optimise with a raster editor
[09:55] <nothlit> the tango page should have tips
[09:56] <nothlit> snap to half units with linework
[09:57] <nothlit> nysosym: about your ichat icon, fix the warble at the bottom and take out the upper hilight, the inner reflection already gives you depth, its more important to show the space
[09:57] <nothlit> nysosym: and enlarge the chat icon, selectively for small sizes if you wish
[09:57] <nothlit> anyways there will be significant optimisation needed if you want clearcut icons at all the standard sizes
[09:57] <nothlit> well, not significant, but it does take footwork
[09:58] <nysosym> nothlit: yes, i have optimized the icon for small every size (256, 128, 64, 48, 32, 16)
[09:59] <nysosym> i think it looks fine now at every kind of size
[10:09] <lassegul> nothlit: hi there
[10:13] <nothlit> lassegul: heyas
[10:27] <nothlit> lassegul: sup
[10:33] <lassegul> nothlit: my internet connection is troubling me. Its up and down like a jojo. I hope I can get it working by thursday. whats up with you?
[10:35] <nothlit> fluxbuntu busyness
[10:35] <nothlit> the new site is launched, its looking good http://fluxbuntu.org , troy_s did the design and corevette the javascript effects
[10:36] <nothlit> lassegul: i just made a few quick edits with some mythbuntu stuff troy is working on
[10:37] <lassegul> wow. that didnt go well in IE :)
[10:37] <nothlit> lassegul: ie7?
[10:37] <nothlit> lassegul: theres a non js version as well
[10:39] <lassegul> nothlit: its really nice.
[10:49] <nothlit> lassegul: how do you, an ISP employee have trouble with the internet lol :(
[10:49] <nothlit> that spells lots of trouble for the rest of us
[11:12] <lassegul> nothlit: lol. If you only knew... I had to yell and shout to get a technician, a colleague, to have a look at my connection before sometime after the first of november :S
[11:39] <lassegul> i just realised you can adjust the visual quality of gaussian blur in inkscape last night. That makes the program 500x faster.
[11:44] <nothlit> lol
[11:44] <nothlit> i did that for the longest time, but when i pumped it backup up to highest i found no difference :o
[11:44] <nothlit> maybe different svn version
[11:54] <mhb> hi folks
[11:55] <nothlit> heyas
[11:55] <mhb> kwwii: hmm, was there a specific reason why the meeting time is in the UTC afternoon? Ah, youll be at the UDS, right.
[12:01] <mhb> by the way, are we still staying with the Human icon theme in Hardy?
[12:06] <nysosym> nothlit: here is a completely redone version. http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4267/previewic2.png
[12:11] <nysosym> ignore that, here is the right version (with shadow)
[12:11] <nysosym> http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=previewcd8.png
[12:30] <kwwii> mhb: mainly because of UDS
[12:31] <kwwii> mhb: not sure about Human yet or not, it depends on what else we have
[12:32] <mhb> kwwii: I am tinkering a bit (as much as school allows) with Human in the last few days
[12:32] <mhb> kwwii: I would like to make it a bit complete, like exporting the SVG images into more sizes and vectorizing some of the images
[12:34] <kwwii> mhb: even if we are to change, we are a long way away from that...at this point it is only an idea which we will discuss at UDS
[12:34] <kwwii> I made a blueprint for it yesterday, still working on a wiki page to explain the idea
[12:35] <mhb> personally, I think the icons are one of the best parts of the Ubuntu artwork
[12:35] <mhb> even though their main weakness is their small number and no SVGs
[12:36] <kwwii> quite a few people think that they would fit better with gnome if they followed the tango guidelines
[12:37] <mhb> that's what the tangerine theme is for, isn't it?
[12:37] <mhb> the orange tango, as I like to call it
[12:39] <mhb> too bad the meeting is so early
[12:43] <mhb> kwwii: I think the icons are the best example of the "Human" principle in the Human theme, they appear warm and friendly, unlike many other icon sets, especially Tango, which still borrows on the "industrial" GNOME look (all my humble opinion).
[12:44] <mhb> On the other hand, I have always felt the rest of the theme (window decoration and widget style) to lack this "humanity", even though it may be very hard to incorporate the feel into a technical thing like a widget style.
[12:46] <mhb> well, I have to go, I am afraid. See you later, folks! And keep up whatever you are doing for Ubuntu!
[14:01] <_MMA_> Wow. Where did all the people go? :) "I want my animal wallpaper!!!" "You guys are teh suck!!!" But where are they now? ;)
[14:02] <nothlit> digg effect fades fast
[14:02] <_MMA_> :)
[14:02] <nothlit> and how long can they harp on the same issue, especially when its dealt with as well as possible given the circumstances
[14:03] <_MMA_> Its always "dealt with as well as possible given the circumstances" but they go through this every release.
[14:07] <_MMA_> Another idea Im working on. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Misc/test2.resized.png and http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Misc/test3.resized.png
[14:14] <nothlit> _MMA_: the second one could be quite interesting once you get a sense of depth between the backdrop and the logo
[14:17] <_MMA_> nothlit: I am leaning toward something like the 2nd one but I dont know if I want to separate the logo from the background. Some people dont link obvious branding so I might just try to make it subtle.
[14:18] <_MMA_> s/link/like
[14:19] <nothlit> if you want to make it subtle make sure the linework isn't there at all, or isn't so thin compared to everything else, and fix up the perspective
[14:19] <nothlit> other than that you might want to play with the inkscape filters and get a subtle inset effect
[14:20] <_MMA_> Dropping the outline almost made it disappear so I was looking at making it thicker to better match the weight of the background.
[14:24] <lassegul> i keep focusing on the black vertical line in the middle with all the details, probably where the original photo has its focus.
[14:25] <kwwii> hi guys
[14:25] <lassegul> maybe keeping the detail/focus a little more even?
[14:25] <lassegul> hi
[14:25] <kwwii> _MMA_: my favrorite of those two is test2.resized.png
[14:26] <_MMA_> Hi lassegul, kwwii.
[14:29] <_MMA_> kwwii: Don't think it's too "brand-heavy"?
[14:30] <kwwii> _MMA_: probably but it does look better than the other version :-)
[14:30] <kwwii> _MMA_: I really liked the work you did with the head of the amp
[14:31] <kwwii> the speaker mesh alone seems to simple for a wallpaper
[14:31] <kwwii> perhaps you could move the logo down into the bottom right and not perspectively scale it
[14:31] <kwwii> so that the logo is directly on the blue part without the mesh
[14:32] <kwwii> in case anyone is interested I am working on 3 blueprints on launchpad and the corresponding wiki pages
[14:32] <kwwii> hardy-icon-theme, art-team, and hardy-theme (launchpad blueprint names)
[14:32] <_MMA_> Yeah. I did that also. Still tinkering with that ides also. :)
[14:33] <_MMA_> Thing is, since Im doing the work now, I'll be reluctant to give up the idea later. I want others to contribute but Im bored now and wanna work. :)
[14:34] <kwwii> yeah, getting contribution in so far in advance seems to be our downfall
[14:34] <kwwii> everyone wants to contribute at the last minute once they have seen the work of others
[14:34] <kwwii> but by that time the work is almost done, the ideas are solid and most of the new stuff does not fit
[14:35] <_MMA_> Thats why Im *trying* to just throw out ideas, but I like the ideas and wanna go with them. :)
[14:36] <kwwii> yeah, I know the feeling
[14:41] <nothlit> _MMA_: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/speakersubtle.png
[14:42] <nothlit> something like that, if you use the svgs you can make the effect more sophisticated but i just threw what was on the wiki together in layers
[14:42] <nothlit> =/ darn, the perspective is off on that
[14:42] <_MMA_> nothlit: Sure. I got he idea.
[14:42] <_MMA_> *the
[14:43] <nothlit> anyways, you guys have a strong image now, i don't think make people search for the branding a bit is a bad idea at all
[14:43] <nothlit> making*
[14:44] <kwwii> actually, I would argue that the wallpaper is a poor place for explicit branding
[14:44] <_MMA_> Thing is I gotta keep the style right. While I get your idea I cant use that photo.
[14:44] <_MMA_> Its too real.
[14:47] <kwwii> and has way too much detail anyway, I think
[14:48] <_MMA_> Heah. I like the image but I gotts get close the that "photocopied" look.
[14:48] <_MMA_> s/gotts/gotta
[14:49] <kwwii> right
[14:50] <nothlit> head in whatever direction you feel is right! :)
[14:51] <_MMA_> This SVG with the Marshal head is KILLING my RAM.
[14:51] <_MMA_> I need another GB stick.
[14:52] <kwwii> that is one of the biggest problems with inkscape
[14:52] <kwwii> makes it hard to be creative when you are limited in the size of the SVG
[14:52]  * _MMA_ has forgot how to mess with perspective in Inkscape.:-/
[14:53] <_MMA_> kwwii: Yeah. Im working with a full-size 2560x1600 image.
[14:54] <nothlit> _MMA_: theres the perspective plugin as long as you're only modifying one path
[14:54] <kwwii> I am not sure that you can scale perpectively in inkscape
[14:54] <nothlit> theres a youtube video on it, this guy has inkscape howto's as part of his blog
[14:55]  * _MMA_ wishes he could be the sabdfl of GIMP/Inkscape.
[14:55] <kwwii> hrm, that plugin does not seem to work in Gutsy
[14:55] <nothlit> do you have all the python math plugins needed?
[14:56] <_MMA_> And what happened to the shadow plugin that I was once upon a time?
[14:57] <_MMA_> s/was/saw
[14:57] <kwwii> nothlit: which python math plugins?
[14:58] <_MMA_> (man Im dyslexic)
[14:58] <kwwii> ahhh python-numpy
[14:58] <nothlit> not sure, but svn has offset+ blur +combine
[14:58] <nothlit> you can create a filter for that
[14:59]  * _MMA_ wonders if python-numpy should be made a depend.
[14:59] <kwwii> great that we install a package with plugins listed in the menu which do not work without installing things per hand
[14:59] <nothlit> recommend perhaps
[14:59] <nothlit> not depends
[14:59] <_MMA_> Yeah. That's better.
[14:59] <nothlit> doesn't the error output tell you which one you need?
[15:00] <kwwii> all it says some crytpic stuff and then "numpy is not installed"
[15:00] <nothlit> _MMA_: http://ryanler.wordpress.com/2007/08/08/156/
[15:01] <nothlit> he actually doesn't do it in one filter, you can run combine instead of duplicating i think
[15:01] <kwwii> I got it to work but I cannot say I understand it
[15:01] <kwwii> you should see the perspective scaling tool in illustrator
[15:01] <kwwii> it simply rocks
[15:01] <kwwii> one reason I still use it
[15:02] <_MMA_> nothlit: Wow. Thats a nice page.
[15:04] <nothlit> _MMA_: this should help you understand whats going on http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#AnExample
[15:05] <nothlit> _MMA_: and some of the other docs http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Filter_Effects
[15:24] <troy_s> perspective in inkscape merely requires a little understanding of a matrix.
[15:25] <kwwii> lol, that is exactly what an artist has
[15:25] <kwwii> nothing like making things more complicated to hinder the artistic process
[15:26]  * kwwii is off for a while...
[15:26] <_MMA_> Later.
[15:26] <troy_s> well... having studied art... i know a few people who do.
[15:26] <kwwii> it is my sons' 10th birthday, time to watch him open presents
[15:26] <troy_s> *sigh*
[15:27] <_MMA_> Yay \o/ 10. :)
[15:27] <troy_s> 10 is a pretty crazy age.
[15:28] <troy_s> one part kid one part teenager... its the monster from the creek.
[15:28] <troy_s> lol
[15:28] <_MMA_> :D
[15:29] <troy_s> most artist would probably just draw perspective anyways... ;)
[15:30] <kwwii> yeah, that was going to be my first suggestion
[15:31] <kwwii> my wife took him to the doctor because he got pimples..the doctor told her "well, puberty is starting" - I think she almost fainted
[15:31] <kwwii> anyway../me is out for a while
[15:33] <_MMA_> lol
[17:09] <mhb> evening folks
[17:20] <mhb> kwwii: who are the voices behind pushing Human away?
[18:19] <kwwii> mhb: nobody in particular, why do you ask?
[18:19] <mhb> kwwii: I would like to discuss it
[18:19] <mhb> and/or read about their opinion
[18:20] <nothlit> mhb: start up a discussion on the mailing list
[18:21] <nothlit> timelag will create a lot of redundancy here
[18:21] <mhb> nothlit: okay.
[18:29] <kwwii> mhb: the main reasons behind the idea are 1) it is looking somewhat stale and 2) it does not fit with the gnome and tango icons
[18:35] <_MMA_> kwwii: Can you get me a macro shot of a head/needle playing a record?
[18:36] <kwwii> _MMA_: sure, if I had a record player :p
[18:36] <_MMA_> :(
[18:36] <kwwii> _MMA_: I could head to a store tomorrow and take a pic
[18:37] <kwwii> I'll bring my gear to boston as well so if you want any photos bring stuff with you
[18:37] <_MMA_> If you have the time. needle on the right if possible.
[18:37] <_MMA_> Yeah. Im sure I could find a indie record shop with a player.
[18:37] <kwwii> if nothing else we could do it then
[18:38] <kwwii> so you want the arm coming from the left or the right?
[18:38] <_MMA_> Right.
[18:38] <kwwii> gotcha
[18:38] <kwwii> I'll see what I can do
[18:40] <_MMA_> Something like this maybe. Probably closer. http://www.ewsaunders.com/images/recordplaying.jpg
[18:40] <_MMA_> More record than arm but with the record out of focus.
[18:41] <kwwii> right, my macro lense is really good at creating a very shallow depth of field
[18:41] <_MMA_> :)
[18:42] <kwwii> I have to go downtown anyway so I'll stop by the local indie record shop and see if they'll let me take a pic
[18:42] <kwwii> pretty sure they won't have a problem with it
[18:42] <_MMA_> Naa... Not usually.
[18:42] <kwwii> I find that if you offer to give the shop a copy they are happy to help
[19:50] <mhb> kwwii: hmm, it seems you are one of the ubuntu-art-pkg. If I created a script resizing icons (similar to the one you did for Oxygen) would you merge those icons?
[19:51] <mhb> speaking of human-icon-theme, of course
[20:00] <kwwii> mhb: as long as we do not modify any of the existing icons and reduce their quality, sure
[20:03] <mhb> kwwii: no, it's just for the non-existent ones
[20:05] <kwwii> right, I thought that but just wanted to be sure I said it :-)
[20:06] <kwwii> also, we would not want to include something of obviously poor quality - some of the svgs might not render well at all sizes
[20:06] <kwwii> so you'll probably have to go through and eyeball them all
[20:07] <kwwii> mhb: btw, the plan for the new icons is not written in stone (yet) so there is also a chance that we would simply update the existing icons are such
[20:11] <mhb> mhm
[20:12] <mhb> I still kind of like the idea of a computer interface for Humans, which goes well with the basics of Ubuntu and the ubuntu philosophy and all
[20:13] <mhb> also going Tango would make us more like SLED .o)
[20:13] <mhb> we'll see about what the majority thinks
[20:15] <nothlit> no distro has domain over tango
[20:15] <mhb> no, that was a semi-joke
[20:16] <mhb> nothlit: the serious part is well described in your comment too - no distro has domain over tango, or more precisely, no distro can have an original look and feel with it
[20:21] <mhb> and whether we like it or not, we want Ubuntu to compete with other distributions, too - and having a "different" GNOME than others is a part of that
[20:37] <kwwii> mhb: well put
[20:41] <kwwii> wow, this filter effects interface is pretty nice
[20:43] <_MMA_> Is that the one nothlit was talking about?
[20:44] <kwwii> _MMA_: yeah
[20:45] <kwwii> for someone who knows a bit of what they are doing it is very *effect-ive
[20:45] <kwwii> *
[20:50] <_MMA_> WTF? Why does "python-numpy" have the depends it does?
[20:50] <_MMA_> -dev packages? gcc3.4base?
[20:51] <_MMA_> 12.4mb worth of new packages.
[20:54] <_MMA_> nothlit: And "python-numpy" is already a "Recommend" of Inkscape. :)
[20:55] <nothlit> :)
[20:55] <kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, I was wondering the same thing
[22:00] <nothlit> kwwii: do you know the name of the community artwork package?
[22:02] <kwwii> nothlit: nope, I have not made it yet :p
[22:02] <kwwii> I was going to take care of that tomorrow
[22:02] <nothlit> oh lol
[22:03] <kwwii> probably something like gutsy-community-wallpapers
[22:03] <nothlit> i was trying to recommend it to people who were looking for more than the default
[22:03] <kwwii> :p
[22:03] <nothlit> oh ok, thanks
[22:03] <kwwii> after I create the package it will still take a bit of time before it appears in universe
[22:03] <kwwii> but I will do that asap
[22:04] <kwwii> tomorrow is my last day of work before next week so I have to get it done by then
[22:14] <nothlit> if you haven't made the package, i have aspect ratio versions here, plus a faded edge one for 4:3 and 16:9 https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/wallpapers/  if you feel the need to supply that sort of thing
[22:18] <nothlit> also a few more people have put stuff on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Gutsy (top and bottom)
[22:18] <kwwii> right, that is why I waited until Gutsy was released to make the package
[22:19] <nothlit> ahh
[22:20] <kwwii> that and the fact that I had hoped that someone would help :-)
[22:26] <nothlit> snagging developers all the way out here is hard lol
[22:33] <kwwii> the funny thing is that if you talk to developers about things they always say "sure, we would love to help" but when you really need help none are to be found
[23:10]  * kwwii is off for the night
[23:13] <_MMA_> Later