[07:55] <kraut> moin
[08:09] <avatar_> @schedule amsterdam
[08:09] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 23 Oct 17:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 16:00: Community Development Team
[08:58] <juliux> morning mvo
[09:16] <mvo> hey juliux!
[09:17] <mvo> juliux: I think I hadn't had the chance to congrat you yet for the very nice ubucon event
[09:17] <juliux> mvo, thanks
[09:17] <juliux> mvo, can you send me your slides? we want upload them on the website
[09:17] <mvo> juliux: sure
[09:18] <juliux> mvo, thanks
[14:24] <pferrari> @schedule Zurich
[14:24] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 23 Oct 17:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 16:00: Community Development Team
[15:23] <zul> @schedule montreal
[15:23] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 23 Oct 11:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 10:00: Community Development Team
[15:30] <soren> @schedule Copenhagen
[15:30] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 23 Oct 17:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 16:00: Community Development Team
[15:30] <soren> Oh, server team meeting! That sounds very interesting!
[15:30] <abogani> @schedule Rome
[15:30] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 23 Oct 17:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 16:00: Community Development Team
[15:36] <penguim> @schedule Brazil
[15:40] <penguim> @schedule Bahia
[15:40] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Bahia: 23 Oct 12:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 13:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 13:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 12:00: Community Development Team
[15:43] <nealmcb> @schedule denver
[15:43] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 23 Oct 09:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 10:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 10:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 08:00: Community Development Team
[15:47] <nealmcb> upcoming agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[15:52] <zul> hey
[15:57] <mathiaz> Hi everyone !
[15:58] <soren> Hey, Mathiaz!
[15:58] <sommer> hey
[15:58] <penguim> hi all
[15:58] <ScottK> Hello
[15:58]  * jdstrand waves
[15:58] <lionel> hi
[16:00] <zul> hello
[16:01] <mathiaz> ok. So let's get this started.
[16:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:01. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01] <mathiaz> Short agenda for today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:02] <mathiaz> Last meeting notes are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20071009
[16:03] <soren> There weren't any?
[16:03] <soren> Action points, that is.
[16:03] <mathiaz> soren: there were two small ones for me.
[16:03] <mathiaz> soren: I did them IIRC
[16:04] <soren> mathiaz: Oh, you're right.
[16:04] <soren> Something about e-mail fridge-devel to sort something out?
[16:04] <mathiaz> soren: when do you think you'll start the mta debate on debian-devel ?
[16:04] <soren> mathiaz: Tomorrow. I meant to do it today, but I got tied up.
[16:06] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Lessons learned from gutsy about Xen
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lessons learned from gutsy about Xen
[16:06] <mathiaz> zul: ^^
[16:06] <zul> on the phone just a sec
[16:07] <mathiaz> ok.. So while waiting, anyone upgrade their server to gutsy ?
[16:07] <zul> ok im back
[16:07] <zul> sorry
[16:08] <zul> ok basically xen in gutsy was a mess compared to feisty and Im looking for help this time around
[16:08] <mathiaz> zul: what's the current state of xen in gutsy ?
[16:08] <zul> mathiaz: people were having problems loading their domUs and other problems
[16:09] <ScottK> mathiaz: I upgraded one of mail mail servers around beta timeframe with no issues.  I plan on doing production servers this weekend.
[16:09] <zul> i emailed a list of ideas for hardy to rick and we can go from their at uds
[16:09] <mathiaz> zul: is this because there wasn't enough testing done during gutsy development phase ?
[16:09] <mathiaz> zul: ok. Is there a spec registered about this ?
[16:09] <zul> mathiaz: true thats part of it
[16:10] <zul> mathiaz: not yet i have to talk to rick more probably
[16:10] <zul> there is a session a uds about this
[16:10] <mathiaz> zul: will you be at uds ?
[16:10] <zul> no I have sent my ideas to rick already ill be listening in though
[16:11] <nealmcb> zul: what sorts of suggestions do you have?
[16:11] <mathiaz> zul: ok. If there is a session scheduled, there is probably a blueprint associated with it.
[16:11] <mathiaz> zul: it may be worth creating the wiki page and add your ideas there.
[16:11] <zul> nealmcb: better tools for creating guests, not just me working on it
[16:12] <mathiaz> zul: explain what was wrong with gutsy and what should be done about it.
[16:12] <mathiaz> zul: are you the only one doing xen work/developpement in Ubuntu ?
[16:12] <zul> mathiaz: basically it was a switch in where were we getting the sources from and the lack of people testing ti
[16:12] <zul> mathiaz: yes i am
[16:13] <zul> so another set of eyes would be good, if it helps Ill send an email to the ubuntu-server ml
[16:14] <avatar_> zul: you'r not in #ubuntu-xen ?
[16:14] <mathiaz> zul: I think that's a good idea.
[16:14] <zul> avatar_: not regularily
[16:15] <zul> ok so I will send an email when I get home tonight
[16:15] <mathiaz> avatar_: is there a mailing list for ubuntu-xen ?
[16:15] <zul> no there isnt
[16:15] <avatar_> mathiaz: afaik just an irc channel
[16:16] <mathiaz> zul: ok. It seems that there isn't any spec for xen.
[16:17] <mathiaz> zul: could create a wiki page about XenSupportInHardy ?
[16:17] <zul> mathiaz: true, I can do that no problem
[16:17] <nealmcb> zul: what sorts of assistance would be most helpful for the xen effort - what skill sets?
[16:17] <zul> nealmcb: packaging testing documentation
[16:18] <zul> especially for amd64 and windows guests
[16:18] <mathiaz> zul: that would help a lot if you'd listed what is needed in the wiki page.
[16:19] <nealmcb> thanks for doing so much by yourself - sounds like we should be able to find folks with those skills....
[16:19] <zul> I could start an XenTeam wiki page as well
[16:19] <avatar_> i would like help testing, but amd64 or windows guests requires me to buy new hardware...
[16:19] <mathiaz> [ACTION] zul will create a wiki page XenSupportInHardy to describe what is needed for xen
[16:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  zul will create a wiki page XenSupportInHardy to describe what is needed for xen
[16:19] <zul> avatar_: ditto :)
[16:19] <mathiaz> zul: A team may be a good idea in mid-term.
[16:20] <mathiaz> zul: let's start by figuring out what needs to be done for hardy
[16:20] <zul> mathiaz: sure Ill get started on it tonight
[16:21] <zul> mathiaz: i have a rough idea in my head I just need to write it down
[16:21] <mathiaz> zul: once people will be interested in it, we could consider the creation of a team
[16:21] <penguim> +1
[16:21] <mathiaz> zul: excellent !
[16:22] <mathiaz> zul: meanwhile, I think you can use the ubuntu-server mailing list to discuss it.
[16:22] <nealmcb> what was the change in xen sources - from where to where?
[16:22] <zul> nealmcb: dom0 sources from redhat to novell
[16:22] <nealmcb> ty
[16:23] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:23] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:24] <mathiaz> As you may know, the hardy archive is now opened.
[16:24] <mathiaz> Which means that we're in merge phase.
[16:25] <soren> \o/ Merge-o-rama!
[16:25] <mathiaz> While doing this, it would be great to forward deltas to Debian via their BTS
[16:25] <mathiaz> using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging
[16:25] <ScottK> As long as they are applicable.
[16:27] <mathiaz> sommer: how is the server guide review going ?
[16:27] <sommer> mathiaz: it's coming along... still working through the official docs
[16:28] <sommer> I also updated, some of the wiki pages I've contributed to, for Gutsy
[16:28] <sommer> at this point basically the ones listed on the Server Team RoadMap page
[16:28] <mathiaz> I've also noticed you've been working on a macro for the wiki to indicate which release is relevant for wiki pages.
[16:28] <mathiaz> sommer: Are they tagged in the wiki ?
[16:29] <mathiaz> sommer: May we could create a link to the list of page relevant to the ServerTeam category.
[16:30] <sommer> mathiaz: sounds like a good idea... they currently aren't tagged except for CategoryDocumentation
[16:30] <mathiaz> sommer: the idea being that we can point new contributors to the page when they show interest in server documentation.
[16:31] <sommer> should we post to the doc ml for additional help?
[16:31] <mathiaz> sommer: hum... I don't know.
[16:32] <ScottK> sommer: One documentation point you might look into while you are reviewing is that I got the fix for Bug #150067 uploaded late in the Gutsy process, but the resulting config file change isn't documented.  It'd be useful if there was an appropriate place to put that.
[16:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150067 in courier "Courier 0.56 has broken SSL support" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150067
[16:32] <mathiaz> ScottK: is there a way to tag bugs fixed that need documentation update ?
[16:33]  * ScottK has no idea.
[16:33] <ScottK> I'm only thinking about that one because I uploaded the fix and dealt with a bug filed today where the only problem was they didn't know about the setting.
[16:34] <sommer> there is a list of bugs pertaining to the official docs
[16:34] <mathiaz> ScottK: yes. It's a general issue actually.
[16:34] <mathiaz> the mysql bug database has such a workflow.
[16:34] <mathiaz> you can see when fixes are committed, then documented.
[16:35] <mathiaz> It may be interesting to be able to mark bugs that need a documentation review (with an appropriate tag for example).
[16:35] <nealmcb> mathiaz: and then remove the tag when it is documented?
[16:36] <mathiaz> nealmcb: yes.
[16:36] <nealmcb> sounds useful - a link to a mysql example would be handy
[16:36] <mathiaz> Anyone has another example of such a situation ?
[16:37] <soren> I know I have one, but I forget what it is :)
[16:38] <sommer> the evms issue everyone seems to have?
[16:38] <sommer> or is that one documented somewhere?  I just recall several questions about it.
[16:38] <mathiaz> sommer: I think that was put in the release notes.
[16:39] <sommer> ah
[16:39] <mathiaz> sommer: update-manager should take care of it.
[16:39] <mathiaz> sommer: but not everyone uses update-manager to upgrade to gutsy.
[16:40] <sommer> so if a bug requires documentation is the process to update the official docs, or a wiki page?
[16:40] <mathiaz> sommer: well - it depends where it needs to be fixed.
[16:40] <sommer> mathiaz: okay
[16:41] <mathiaz> sommer: if it's in the official documentation, I think that a new bug should be filed against the documentation package
[16:41] <mathiaz> sommer: otherwise, the wiki page should be updated.
[16:41] <mathiaz> This is usually what I do whith the AppArmor package and User guide.
[16:41] <sommer> cool sounds good to me
[16:41] <mathiaz> The problem is that most developper don't know which wiki page on help.u.c needs to be updated.
[16:42] <nealmcb> sending an example of the mysql workflow to the doc team might help - they may have similar ideas
[16:42] <mathiaz> I think this should be raised with the ubuntu-doc team.
[16:42] <mathiaz> I'll send an email about this.
[16:42] <nealmcb> cool
[16:43] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will send an email to ubuntu-doc about bugs and documentation update.
[16:43] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will send an email to ubuntu-doc about bugs and documentation update.
[16:43] <mathiaz> ScottK: I'll give your courrier bug as an example.
[16:43] <mathiaz> If someone else has another example, let me know.
[16:43] <mathiaz> nealmcb: what's the state with the factoids ?
[16:43] <ScottK> mathiaz: Thanks.
[16:45] <nealmcb> mathiaz: sorry - distracte - I need to get back to them!!
[16:46] <mathiaz> nealmcb: did you send an email to ubuntu-server with your proposal ?
[16:46] <nealmcb> not yet.  I've got some fleshed out on the page, but want to finish that first
[16:47] <mathiaz> nealmcb: ok.
[16:48] <mathiaz> As you may know, the Ubuntu Developer Summit will start next week
[16:48] <mathiaz> with a BarCamp this coming Weekend.
[16:48] <soren> *cough* FOSSCamp *cough*
[16:48] <mathiaz> A list of blueprints will be discussing for Hardy can be found at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server
[16:49] <mathiaz> soren: hum - it was renamed ?
[16:49] <soren> Er.. no?
[16:49] <soren> :)
[16:49] <nealmcb> that's the name - Fosscamp
[16:49] <soren> http://www.fosscamp.org/
[16:49] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.fosscamp.org/
[16:50] <mathiaz> soren: hum... ok.
[16:50] <soren> No biggie.
[16:50] <soren> :)
[16:50] <mathiaz> So if you wanna get involve in the discussion, the blueprints and their associated wiki page are the place to look at.
[16:51] <mathiaz> Is there anything else ?
[16:52] <nealmcb> will the schedule at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-boston-2007/2007-10-29/index.html  point to the blueprints?
[16:52] <mathiaz> nealmcb: it should
[16:52] <Keybuk> nealmcb: it already does
[16:52] <nealmcb> In the past I remember it being hard to find out about some topics
[16:53] <nealmcb> Keybuk: hmmm - the titles don't seem to be links - ahh - some are
[16:53] <Keybuk> they're links if they have a little note icon next to them
[16:53] <Keybuk> if they're not, then the spec doesn't exist in LP yet
[16:54] <nealmcb> I'd just encourage folks to get something in both lp and the wiki - it helps a lot with context :-)
[16:54] <Keybuk> I've been doing just that
[16:54] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:55] <mathiaz> Ok. It's time to wrap up.
[16:55] <mathiaz> Next meeting in two weeks, same time, same place ?
[16:55] <soren> Er.. We might be busy at that point?
[16:56] <soren> AllHands, you know..
[16:56] <nealmcb> well, not everyone knows :-)
[16:56] <soren> Sorry, no :) It was for mathiaz :)
[16:57] <soren> Let's shoot for two week, same time, same place.
[16:57] <soren> We'll work it out.
[16:57] <mathiaz> Alright - then.
[16:57] <mathiaz> Thanks all and happy merging !
[16:57] <nealmcb> but I met Lamont in person at the Colorado gutsy party, and heard about it...  a canonical meeting...
[16:57]  * nealmcb waves to lamont
[16:57] <sommer> thanks all
[16:57] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[16:57] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:57.
[16:58] <nealmcb> mathiaz: thanks!
[16:58] <nealmcb> back to class, now, folks....  and thanks to soren for the ubuntu open week session yesterday in  #ubuntu-classroom
[16:59] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:59] <soren> \o/
[16:59] <soren> ;)
[17:00] <BenC> Hello everyone
[17:01] <BenC> Unfortunately, most of the kernel team is either not present, or working hard on post-gutsy issues, or UDS planning
[17:01] <BenC> I'll open the floor for anything from the community
[17:02] <BenC> And if there is nothing, then I'll end the meeting :)
[17:03] <ogasawara> BenC: just curious if there is any specific area you want my to focus my triaging?
[17:03] <ogasawara> BenC: for now i'm just trying to cut down the number of New and Unassigned bugs for 2.6.20 and 2.6.22
[17:04] <BenC> ogasawara: Our main problem has been unanswered bugs, which gives people the impression we don't care (and we really do)
[17:04] <abogani> BenC: Are there plan for change security model to "Posix file capabilities" ?
[17:05] <BenC> abogani: not that I'm aware of...that's a decision for security/server teams
[17:05] <zul> BenC: fyi ive already started forward porting the xen tree again
[17:05] <BenC> in general the kernel team doesn't make policy decisions that affect userspace that broadly...we follow what the distro decides as a whole
[17:05] <BenC> zul: good luck :)
[17:05] <zul> BenC: yeah thanks..
[17:06] <zul> 2.6.24 right?
[17:07] <BenC> as of right now, that's the plan
[17:07] <BenC> wont be decided until next week at UDS
[17:07] <zul> im assuming 2.6.24 though
[17:08] <BenC> as of right now, .23 and (virtual).24 are the same thing :)
[17:08] <zul> true
[17:08] <zul> 2.6.23 would be easier for me
[17:09] <BenC> ogasawara: how are things coming along with the current bug lists?
[17:10] <BenC> ogasawara: also, now that gutsy is released, it may be best to not spend too much time on 2.6.20
[17:11] <ogasawara> BenC:  so obviously there are lots of "New" bugs that still need to be processed, but for the most part things are moving fairly smoothly
[17:11] <ogasawara> BenC: was curious if this might be a good forum to bring up specific bugs I think you guys should take a look at?
[17:12] <ogasawara> BenC: or should I just hit you guys up on #kernel
[17:12] <BenC> ogasawara: It would be a good forum, but considering most of us aren't here, I'm on a conf call while doing this little bit, it's just not a good day for it :)
[17:12]  * ogasawara nods :)
[17:12] <BenC> ogasawara: another good point would be to make good use of "Wont Fix" in released kernels
[17:13] <BenC> I think most of the bugs fall into this category right now
[17:13] <ogasawara> BenC: yah, I've already been marking a lot of these
[17:15] <BenC> ogasawara: did you want me to schedule a kernel-team session with you at UDS?
[17:15] <ogasawara> BenC: yah, was just about to ask you that
[17:15] <BenC> or will a OOB meeting at the pub after hours do? :)
[17:15] <ogasawara> BenC:  at the pub would be perfect
[17:16] <ogasawara> BenC: actually, bdmurray and I have been compiling a short list of questions for you that can totally be addressed over a beer or two
[17:16] <BenC> excellent, favorite kind of meetings
[17:17] <BenC> Anything else before I cut the meeting?
[17:17] <ogasawara> BenC: nope, I'm good.
[17:17] <zul> none here
[17:18] <BenC> Ok, thanks everyone
[17:18] <abogani> BenC: Thank you!
[20:07] <Keybuk> mdz, mjg59: No TB tonight?
[20:11] <mjg59> I thought we decided to skip it, given UDS?
[20:12] <Keybuk> did we
[20:12] <Keybuk> it's a good decision :p