crimsunnxvl: I'm around if you need assistance.00:00
bmk789im doubting theres any kind of video tutorial on packaging is there?00:07
nixternalyes there is00:07
bmk789on ubuntu packaging?00:08
nxvlcrimsun: nice, i quite lost00:10
nxvlcrimsun: i have generated the debian.debdiff and ubuntu.debdiff00:10
nxvlcrimsun: i see a lot of changes00:10
giovaniwikipedia fundraised00:10
giovanijust started00:10
nxvlcrimsun: in debian.debdiff there MUST be changes since it's a new version so i didn't need to see they, didn't i?00:11
nxvlcrimsun: in the debian.debdiff what i need to do is to check is the changes in ubuntu.diff are in there, didn't i?00:11
nxvlwell, time to go home, back in some minutes00:12
crimsunnxvl: I lack backscroll, can you tell me which merge you're doing?00:13
LeRoutiergood night ppl00:22
tonyyarussoaww man, did Thunderbird support in tracker just miss the deadline by like two weeks for Gutsy?00:24
RAOFIt's still experimental, isn't it?00:28
RAOFAs in: you can turn it on in the config file, but there's deliberatly no UI for it yet?00:28
tonyyarussoRAOF: I think there's actually a checkbox in the UI, but it's greyed out for now.00:29
tonyyarussoYou might be right though.00:29
zulimbrandon: ping01:02
tonyyarussoCan someone tell me how to use reportbug to submit to the Debian BTS?  Even with the --bts option it's going to Ubuntu still for me.02:15
tonyyarussooh, nvm.  Different syntax.02:18
superm1jdong, you here?02:31
jdongsuperm1: yes sir02:31
superm1jdong, okay so were we going to push forward with that SRU?02:31
jdongsuperm1: have not received a response from pitti yet02:32
superm1jdong, ah i see02:32
superm1mail or ping?02:32
jdongsuperm1: mail02:32
superm1jdong, mkay.  slangasek might also be good to talk to instead if you don't hear from pitti soo02:32
jdongsuperm1: ok, I'll wait a day or two for pitti before bugging others... it's a long story :)02:33
jdongsuperm1: I'm currently working on two minor issues uncovered by launchpad testers02:33
superm1okay then i won't dwelve into asking too much :)02:33
superm1jdong, wonderful that's good02:34
jdongyeah, turns out we need to make sure user has either the (universe) icedtea stack or a multiverse sun-java* stack02:34
superm1jdong, just ping me when your ready to proceed then02:34
jdongthe GCJ one runs like 100x slower for hash checking02:34
jdongwhich kinda sucks for torrenting to the point of unusability02:34
superm1well depend on icedtea then?02:35
jdongnobody is gonna wait an hour to hash-check a 100MB file :)02:35
jdongsuperm1: did exactly that, alt-dep on sun-java*02:35
superm1the problem is making sure that they are active then eh?02:35
jdongsuperm1: and modified the launcher to bypass alternatives and directly look in /usr/lib/jvm for a preferred runtime02:35
superm1set to the default one02:35
superm1ah good02:35
superm1two steps ahead of my thought process.  i like it.02:35
jdongsuperm1: now working on a 3-liner to suppress an annoying error box that Azureus pops up about its updater not being able to write to /usr/lib :)02:35
=== RAOF_ is now known as RAOF
StevenKjdong: You can't disable the updater?02:37
StevenKOh look, we start talking about Azureus, and RAOF turns up...02:38
jdongStevenK: well, I don't want to totally disable the updater... Azureus uses it to update plugins users can put in ~/.azureus02:38
jdongStevenK: I only need to suppress the SWT update check -- the only update checked that's in a system location02:39
StevenKjdong: Ah, so you'd prefer to castrate it.02:39
RAOFStevenK: Drawn by dark callings, yes02:39
StevenKRAOF: :-)02:39
jdongok, verified to solve SWT update nag..... Wow I love it when a 3-liner patch is functional and not hackish :)02:45
pwnguinit still infuriates me that the eclipse package uses JAVA_HOME02:48
jdongpwnguin: my ability to package azureus (a 3-month-old update to Azureus) is being hampered by that big elephant.02:52
jdongdon't get me started.02:52
* ajmitch hugs java02:52
ajmitchso much fun02:52
jdongajmitch: why does it seem like most of the time it's our packaging that's the curse?02:53
jdongajmitch: for some reason fedora/mandriva java packaging looks so crisp and clean....02:53
jdongone build script, 2 or 3 minor patches....02:53
jdonginstead of our huge debian/ jungle with dh_eclipse_magical_ecj_thingie02:53
jdongand like a bazillion patches02:54
pwnguinlast time i looked at azureus (some time ago, mind you) there seemed to be an attempt to get azurues to build to a native app02:54
ajmitchjdong: I can't say, I won't touch any of it02:54
jdongpwnguin: there was with the packaging too02:54
pwnguinfedora's committed to ecj, no?02:54
jdongpwnguin: they're not committed to anything02:54
jdongpwnguin: F7 included icedtea beta, I'm not sure what they're doiung with F802:54
pwnguinwhat i mean is, they heavily support the use of free software and if non-free is broke, shurgs abound02:55
jdongpwnguin: that is correct02:55
jdongpwnguin: they used to heavily use GCJ02:55
pwnguini imagine they're all up in icedtea02:55
pwnguinwhich is great02:55
jdongpwnguin: and that's where we got our initial Azureuses, with like 50 patches to get it to half-compile02:55
pwnguinwhen you say "we"02:56
pwnguinuniverse, or debian?02:56
jdongpwnguin: and the part that converts it to "native" produces like a 10MB thing for a 1MB Jar02:56
jdongusing 1+GB RAM in the process02:56
jdongand I honestly CANT see the final thing any faster than the interpreted thing02:56
jdongmaybe 1.5x faster02:56
pwnguini doubt that02:56
jdongbut considering it was 100x slower than Sun to begin with?02:56
jdongnot a ground-breaking improvement02:56
pwnguinso only 50x slower ;)02:57
jdongand for the case of Azureus, unacceptable02:57
jdongthe hash checking process off a laptop hard drive should NEVER be CPU bound -- always IO bound02:57
pwnguini guess the set of java developers unioned with developers committed to free software was exclusive with those who actually know how to write code02:58
jdongcould be03:00
jdongpwnguin: but Fedora also heavily customizes their GCJ chain03:00
jdongpwnguin: I don't doubt that when Fedora compiled Auzreus with GCJ, it actually worked acceptably well03:00
jdongpwnguin: I don't think we have the same manpower going into the Ubuntu GCJ stack -- that's all03:01
pwnguinis there a smart way to go about finding patches in fedora?03:02
pwnguintheres some host called koji that seems to host things, but its a bit unwiedly03:02
jdongpwnguin: hmm I'm just unpacking srpm's03:04
jdongthey have patches well laid out similar to a debian/patches thing03:04
pwnguinfinding srpms alone is a challenge ;)03:05
jdongpwnguin: look on a fedora mirror.03:26
jdongI was just thinking, and everyone bear witness:03:27
jdongIf Azureus upstream ever becomes evil with the Vuze crap and Debian has to fork it, I want credit for naming it DartFrog03:27
jdongthat is all.03:27
ScottKjdong: Are you going to send you updater patch to Debian in a bug?03:29
jdongScottK: yeah, good idea. I'll have to *grumble* navigate their BTS03:29
joeaminedi'm a student in computer engineering and i'd like to contribute to ubuntu03:29
StevenKCheques can made payable to ....03:30
* StevenK hides03:30
=== Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie
ScottKjoeamined: Dive in and get to work.03:37
jdongScottK: okie dokie, submitted to Debian BTS03:37
ScottKjdong: That's a good downstream.03:37
ScottKpat, pat, pat.03:37
jdongScottK: lol :) if only their bug tracker was more friendly :)03:38
StevenKMeh, debbugs isn't that bad.03:38
* ScottK likes it better than Launchpad.03:38
StevenKIt's better than Bugzilla03:38
ScottKAt least I don't have to wait an eternity everytime I click on something.03:38
pwnguinjoeamined: if you've got pet bugs, you could try fixing one03:38
ajmitchbugzilla is great03:39
jdongStevenK: for one, I saw ZERO space shuttle graphics throughout the entire bug filing process.03:39
* ScottK thinks joeamined needs to fix his IRC client.03:39
ajmitchjdong: that's unfortunate, perhaps you should sponsor a debian developer to visit the ISS03:40
StevenKHah, Thunderbird.03:41
StevenK"Personal has 2 new messages", yet it shows four of them03:41
jdongStevenK: it's thunderbird :)03:42
jdongStevenK: more seriously it probably has the Seen flag marked by the client for some reason03:42
jdongrather than just NEW03:43
StevenKWhat I think happened is I didn't check the last time it appeared03:44
ScottKGood $TIMEOFDAY Hobbsee.03:57
Hobbseehiya ScottK03:57
imbrandonman filtering join/parts really cuts down the traffic in here :)03:58
imbrandonheya Hobbsee03:58
Hobbseehiya imbrandon03:58
Hobbseeimbrandon: indeed!03:58
jdongwhoo, got another success report on LP that my azureus package worked04:14
jcastrojdong: are you coming to fosscamp/uds?04:23
jdongjcastro: I'll be at UDS04:23
imbrandonalong with all his crack :)04:23
* Hobbsee waves to jcastro04:23
jcastrohi Hobbsee04:23
ajmitchso far to swim...04:23
imbrandonjcastro, i sent that email off04:23
jcastroajmitch: good thing there's the panama canal, otherwise you'd have to go the long way around04:24
jcastroimbrandon: \m/04:24
* Hobbsee starts to wonder if compiz is *not* the battery life hog.04:24
ScottKGood night all.04:24
jdongimbrandon: ha I've been clean for the past year or two, right? :)04:24
persiagood night scottk04:24
ajmitchjcastro: yeah, I'm pretty glad about that, otherwise I'd have to leave last week :)04:24
ajmitchjdong: you want an honest answer?04:25
jdongajmitch: uh oh :)04:25
imbrandonjdong, lol , r u serouis ? hehe04:25
jdong:) I love you guys too :P04:25
ajmitchimbrandon: harsh04:25
ajmitchjdong: we wuv you too, really04:26
* imbrandon watchs jdong rebuild the archive with -Os04:26
* ajmitch recalls fondly funroll-loops.org04:26
* imbrandon hugs jdong, but we still lub u04:26
ajmitchand I think that someone revived that page from the depths of the internet04:27
imbrandonajmitch, hahah yea, i JUST seen that site the other day04:27
jcastroajmitch: I have the source somewhere.04:27
jdongajmitch: that was hilarious04:27
ajmitchblame our canonical friend ;)04:27
jdongajmitch: and to think I used to be a gentoo user before coming to Ubuntu04:27
jcastroajmitch: although I can neither confirm nor deny my involvement04:27
ajmitchjcastro: sure..04:27
jdongso you guys have got to give me at least the Warty cycle to cool down :D04:28
jdongand stop trying to port portage to Ubuntu04:28
ajmitchjdong: warty?04:28
imbrandon<< .... >> ...... O_o04:28
jdongajmitch: ok fine it lasted a bit thru hoary too04:28
ajmitchah, breezy, dapper, edgy, feisty...04:28
imbrandonummm i recall it all the way to edgy04:28
ubotu<Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!04:28
ubotuOh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!04:29
jcastrois that apt-build thing still around?04:29
jdongimbrandon: well backports was not integrated into the central archives until mid-breezy....04:29
nixternalglad you think that is funny!04:29
nixternalthat one is better though04:29
nixternalwhen it works04:29
pwnguindid you really rebuild the archive with -Os imbrandon?04:29
imbrandonpwnguin, no04:29
StevenKnixternal: We'll be wanting to collect at UDS...04:29
jdongimbrandon: but I've been using same versioning, building, and QA'ing tactics since about halfway thru hoary :)04:29
jdongimbrandon: and I did break a few flash plugins in edgy.... shhhhhhh :)04:30
nixternalI will be over in the corner wearing my rPath and Foresight Linux T-shirts!!!04:30
nixternalcome find me :)04:30
jdongpwnguin: I'd love to try it :)04:30
nixternalif you find me, I will give you money!04:30
jcastronixternal: the glow in the dark green shirt?04:30
nixternalthat is one of them :)04:30
nixternalalthough it doesn't glow all that well anymore04:30
* imbrandon hugs his kubuntu shirts04:30
imbrandonand hat04:30
nixternalI wear shirts that I get for freeeeeeeee04:31
nixternalso far Fedora, Debian, openSUSE, and Foresight have all obliged with kindness :)04:31
nixternalmy Kubuntu shirt I bought off of Cafepress now says K   n u04:31
jdongnixternal: aww I want a green suse shirt :)04:31
* imbrandon hands nix a Windows Vista T04:31
ajmitchsomeone please buy this man a vista shirt04:31
nixternalI have a Bad Vista t-shirt, that is enough04:32
nixternaland my GPLv3 t-shirt that loves to start drama04:32
elkbuntubad ajmitch, BAD!04:32
pwnguinjdong: i wonder how hard it would be. ive seen a few packages with a debug and relase pairing of build rules04:32
ajmitchelkbuntu: why, it's nixternal?04:32
nixternalI got a couple of Ubuntu shirts, but I gave them away04:32
jdongpwnguin: I'd just wrap gcc at the /usr/bin/gcc level and forget screwing with each package04:32
nixternalwhy send shirts for a boy to a grown ass man?04:32
elkbuntuajmitch, yes, precisely. isnt he enough on his own?04:32
ajmitchelkbuntu: good to see you around as well :)04:32
* elkbuntu runs from nixternal04:32
jdongpwnguin: just filter out all the other -O flags and replace with -Os04:32
pwnguinsounds good04:33
elkbuntuajmitch, well yeah, they fired me yesterday, so now i got unexpected time on my hands04:33
jdongand that's probably why I'm the resident crackpot :)04:33
ajmitchelkbuntu: *ouch*04:33
StevenKelkbuntu: :-(04:33
elkbuntuim a terrible arse kisser apparantly04:33
ajmitchI can imagine04:33
jdongelkbuntu: practice makes perfect?04:33
nixternalimbrandon: I found out today that my future in any kind of MMA is not feasible...I got cage time at the gym and went against a guy, 75 lbs. lighter, but he was a muay thai guy...lets just say, I couldn't grab him, as he was punching and kicking faster than I could blink04:33
elkbuntui blame it all on the open source community04:33
* jdong ducks04:33
* imbrandon gets back to the fatx patch04:33
* jdong would like to blame his C+ in differential equations on that too04:34
elkbuntuajmitch, i made the mistake of answering a question asked by an interim trainer honestly, and she took it as a personal attack on the normal trainer, and dobbed, and the rest is history04:34
ajmitchelkbuntu: you speak your mind far too freely?04:34
elkbuntuajmitch, basically04:34
jcastronixternal: you could always drop kick people at LoCo meetings and such.04:35
ajmitchwhere to from here?04:35
pwnguinjdong: i was thinking it might be possible to set a default CFLAGS, but id have to reveiw a few packages to see if they add or replace CFLAGS04:35
jdongpwnguin: well packages who seriously need certain cflags tend to set it themselves04:35
nixternaljcastro: I almost had to do that yesterday at the LoCo/Release Party/Install Fest/Soon to be a cage match04:35
elkbuntui havent told the folks yet, they were burying granddad yesterday and i didnt think it would be an appropriate time. i'm saving the 'you fail at life' lecture for this evening04:35
pwnguinjdong: right, but they can either do = or +=04:35
StevenKelkbuntu: Double :-(04:36
StevenKelkbuntu: I've been fired once, it isn't fun. :-(04:36
imbrandonpwnguin, depends on the package04:36
* persia notes that nearly every package using automake sets cflags, and that *lots* of the C programs in Ubuntu use automake04:36
jcastroelkbuntu: condolences04:36
elkbuntuStevenK, well, all i could say was 'if you had have told me this an hour earlier, i could have made it to my grandfather's funeral'... the expression on their faces was priceless04:36
pwnguinin that case, replacing gcc would probably be the way to go ;)04:36
lifelesselkbuntu: :(04:37
elkbuntujcastro, thanks :) good to see you back with us again :)04:37
imbrandontis whats done when you use distcc in a pbuilder04:37
StevenKelkbuntu: I'll bet.04:37
jcastroelkbuntu: :D04:38
imbrandonautoreconf -i04:38
ajmitchjcastro: and now you're stuck with us04:39
elkbuntuso i now have like 3 or so weeks to find a new job before i run out of monies04:39
jcastroajmitch: heh, the joke's on you!04:39
ajmitchjcastro: "oh god, make the pain stop!" sort of joke?04:40
ajmitchelkbuntu: I hope you manage to get something sorted out asap, I know it's not easy there04:40
RAOFHobbsee: Surveys say that compiz has approximately no impact on power usage.  Look elsewhere for your poor battery life :P04:41
elkbuntuajmitch, heh, i spent yesterday pounding pavement, and ended up mildly dehydrated... i should probably head off and compound it now eh :P. cyas04:41
lifelesselkbuntu: good luck.04:42
lifelesselkbuntu: and don't think of indian takeaway04:42
ajmitchelkbuntu: bye, and good luck04:43
HobbseeRAOF: which means somewhere in gnome.  any pointers on where to look?04:43
Hobbseepwnguin: looked there.  nothing overly out of the ordinary.04:44
pwnguindepends on your definition of ordinary04:45
Hobbseelike, nothing that wasnt there under kubuntu too04:45
pwnguinfor simple diagnostics04:45
pwnguini have a gnome panel applet04:46
pwnguinthat monitors CPU and network load04:46
Hobbseethe load's not that high.  it's just my battery live getting nuked.04:46
Hobbseeand i'm unsure as to why04:46
pwnguinas reported by what?04:46
Hobbseehtop and the like04:47
Hobbsee(comparing this to kubuntu, so the kernel and all that should be the same)04:47
pwnguinim sorry, i meant, battery life as reported by what?04:47
Hobbseeerm.  gnome power manager, i think it is04:47
Hobbseeacpi -V04:47
Hobbsee(as well)04:48
jcastroHobbsee: tracker or beagle indexing away perhaps?04:48
pwnguinif they were, they'd show up04:48
Hobbseejcastro: purged tracker.04:48
Hobbseeno beagle installed either04:48
pwnguinthe problem is, and i should really file a bug on this, iowait on multiload applet is indistinguishable from black (it's slightly blue)04:49
pwnguini usually turn it to yellow04:49
pwnguinas iowait basically means disk access not cpu hunger04:49
lifelessOTOH disk == power04:50
pwnguinbut when you want to know what the problem is04:50
jdongHobbsee: gnome-power-manager does that weird logarithmic-profiling estimation thing04:50
jdongHobbsee: it doesn't listen to ACPI estimates04:50
pwnguiniowait gives you a hint04:50
jdongand tacker should not index on battery either04:51
jdongHobbsee: oh silly me, I should've read your scrollback04:51
jdonghit me.04:51
* StevenK deals jdong a card04:51
pwnguinits possible the battery is simply aging04:51
jdongpwnguin: I think it's a feature that iowait blends in04:52
pwnguinjdong: a stupid feature04:52
jdongpwnguin: otherwise people would look at it and say ZOMG MY CPU IS LOADED!!!1111104:52
pwnguinwhich is why i make it yellow04:52
Hobbseepwnguin: sure, but in that case, why did it drop around 40 mins in a week?04:52
jdongpwnguin: I oddly make it yellow too04:52
Hobbseewhen switching DE's?04:52
jdongHobbsee: ok, can you install acpitool?04:52
jdongHobbsee: then under KDE, run acpitool -B a few times, do the same under GNOME, and look at the discharge rate being reported04:53
jdongdetermine if they are actuallly different between GNOME and KDE04:53
jdongif so, then we've got an actual problem at our hands04:53
Hobbsee    Remaining capacity : 1694 mAh, 52.24%, 01:13:0104:53
Hobbsee    Design capacity    : 4800 mAh04:53
Hobbsee    Last full capacity : 3243 mAh, 67.56% of design capacity04:53
Hobbsee    Capacity loss      : 32.44%04:53
jdong23:53 < Hobbsee>     Last full capacity : 3243 mAh, 67.56% of design capacity04:53
pwnguinif thats accuate04:54
pwnguinwe have an answer04:54
Hobbseejdong: that'll require booting to kde.04:54
* jdong does a calculation04:54
imbrandontime for a new battery04:54
Hobbseeimbrandon: seems so.04:54
pwnguinbattery life falls off steeply04:54
Hobbseepwnguin: yeah, but not by a *week*04:54
pwnguinsure by a week in the last stages04:54
Hobbseeand not when the recent preceeding weeks ahd no visible drop off.04:54
jdong2061mA drain if ACPI time accurate is correct04:55
jdongHobbsee: what kind of CPU and video card, what level of display brightness?04:55
pwnguinacpi time isnt accurate at the start04:55
pwnguingive it a few minutes of running on battery04:55
jdongpwnguin: it represents correct for the current battery discharge rate04:55
jdongpwnguin: and spikes of 2061mA are suspicious04:55
jdongunless she's got a dedicated GPU of some sort04:55
pwnguini think hobbsee was telling me to buy intel04:56
jdongmy macbook usually draws 1300 idle, 2000 under firefox rendering loads04:56
imbrandonok guys ........04:56
imbrandon[22:52] <imbrandon> anyone know why i would get this .... debian/scripts/misc/oldconfig: line 66: /home/brandon/files/xbox/kernel/ubuntu-image/linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22/debian/scripts/misc/splitconfig.pl: Permission denied04:56
imbrandon[22:52] <imbrandon> when running the updateconfigs04:56
imbrandon[22:53] <imbrandon> *debian/rules updateconfigs04:56
imbrandon[22:55] <imbrandon> ( and yea i ran it with sudo fwiw )04:56
pwnguinPresent rate       : 20808 mW04:56
jdongimbrandon: script not chmodded +x?04:56
jdongthe .pl thing04:56
jdongpwnguin: divide that by approximately 11.7 volts?04:57
imbrandonno idea04:57
* jdong checks that W/V = A04:57
ajmitch    Remaining capacity : 3076 mAh, 100.0%04:57
ajmitch    Design capacity    : 4400 mAh04:57
ajmitch    Last full capacity : 3076 mAh, 69.91% of design capacity04:57
ajmitch    Capacity loss      : 30.09%04:57
jdongyes it is04:58
jdong    Remaining capacity : 4546 mAh, 100.0%04:58
jdong    Design capacity    : 4800 mAh04:58
jdong    Last full capacity : 4546 mAh, 94.71% of design capacity04:58
jdongrecalled battery FTW!04:58
* ajmitch has had this laptop for >18 months now04:58
jdongajmitch: that's very impressive, and you probalby use it a lot too04:58
pwnguinwhy is my output so different?04:58
ajmitchso I don't think it's doing *too* badly yet04:59
pwnguin   Remaining capacity : 38193 mWh, 100.0%, 02:09:1704:59
pwnguin    Design capacity    : 50760 mWh04:59
pwnguin    Last full capacity : 37141 mWh, 73.17% of design capacity04:59
jdongpwnguin: batteries report in different units04:59
jdongpwnguin: technically mWh is a proper unit of power consumption rate04:59
jdongpwnguin: while mAh is a unit of current * time = net current flow04:59
jdongpwnguin: but we can assume the voltage of a laptop battery to be the standard 11.7-12.005:00
lifelesswe can? why?05:00
jdonglifeless: aren't most common laptops using cells around that voltage?05:01
pwnguinyou have a point05:01
mbtHas anyone here setup a buildd for managing a small collection of packages?  Or perhaps an easier, more efficient auto-build system?05:01
lifelessjdong: I'm thinking of MID's05:01
pwnguingnome reports the voltage at 11.3ish05:01
jdonglifeless: ok, those are probably very different :)05:02
jdongbut I haven't seen many fullsized laptops with batteries not around 12V05:02
pwnguinis 11.25 "around 12?"05:03
jdongpwnguin: design voltage is around 12 :)05:03
jdongpwnguin: what it is when capacity is at 60%, I don't know :)05:03
pwnguinthe ac adaptor claims to output 15V05:04
jdongpwnguin: well that goes through several DC-DC converters before entering the charging circuit05:04
pwnguinmy external battery says 10.8 DC05:05
jdongpwnguin: where does that plug into?05:05
pwnguinmy main battery also says 10.805:06
jdongok, then around 11V :)05:06
jdong10.8 / 3.6 = 305:07
jdongI guess that's a 6-cell?05:07
pwnguinthey're both 6 cells05:07
jdongmakes sense then05:07
* ajmitch should get a new laptop :)05:08
pwnguing-p-m has an annoying habit of blacking the screen instead of turning the light off05:08
jdongeveryone should get a new laptop! whee!05:08
pwnguinwhich saves like nothing in power05:08
jdongpwnguin: that sucks05:09
pwnguinits not so bad05:09
pwnguinif i leave the laptop unattended, it's usually on power05:09
pwnguinand if i close the lid, it does turn the light off05:10
jdongpwnguin: that's good... I have to travel for the day with my laptop and charge when I get ack from classes05:10
jdongso I need decent battery life05:10
imbrandonunattended powered on laptop ? woot, and does this have your ~/.gnupg dir on it ? hehe05:10
pwnguinim talking like05:11
pwnguinin my bedroom05:11
imbrandonheh i'm just messin with ya05:11
pwnguinwhile im eating a sandwich in the kitchen05:11
ajmitchimbrandon could be like a redneck ninja & stealth into your bedroom, you know05:11
jdongimbrandon: security question, is it easy to decrypt the secret key when you have someone's ~/.gpg?05:11
jdongimbrandon: I would imagine that'd be a time-consuming process too05:12
imbrandondepends on the passphrase05:12
StevenKjdong: For all practical purposes, no. It's usually safer to be paranoid and revoke the key05:12
imbrandonpersia claims a 40bit pass can be dont in 16 hours with normal moden PC05:12
pwnguinbut you could nab my ssh keys05:12
jdongimbrandon: isn't the passphrase also key-hardened?05:12
pwnguinat some point, you have to stop typing in passwords05:13
StevenKimbrandon: "40 bit pass" ?05:13
jdongimbrandon: specific to gnupg or in general?05:13
imbrandonjdong, he was talking in general, StevenK probably ment 40-bit length05:14
imbrandonnot sure05:14
jdongimbrandon: I would expect a strengthened key to take longer to crack, even 5-char passwords05:14
pwnguinthats assuming the old rc challenges were equiv to one modern pc05:14
pwnguincrack.net broke a 40 in like 16 hours05:14
StevenKHrm. My battery says "67.18%" too05:14
jdongyeah, GnuPG does use key-strengthening05:14
jdongso I'd bet that even in posession of a private key, without knowing the passphrase it's basically a dead end05:15
jdongunless you're the magnitude of a government05:15
jdongthen anything's possible :)05:15
imbrandonjdong, even if the passphrase isnt guessed, the key is still considered compromised though was my point ;)05:15
jdongimbrandon: a symmetrically encrypted copy of the key is compromised05:15
jdongimbrandon: but if you had a passphrase-locked encrypted hard drive that was lost, would you consider the data compromised?05:16
* imbrandon gives up05:16
jdongimbrandon: no no, I'm just trying to understand what you consider to be compromised05:16
imbrandoni'd have to hunt the debian doc i was reading way back05:17
imbrandonis what i was going from05:17
pwnguini imagine the launchpad peoples would be better able to answer the question of security05:17
jdongall I'm saying is..... When people symmetrically encrypt their hard drives with dm-crypt and such, they consider their data to be safe even when their disk is lost05:18
jdongbut when people lose their ~/.gnupg, the sky is falling and hell is freezing over05:18
jdongI fail to understand what's different between the two05:18
pwnguinkey length?05:18
jdongpwnguin: I doubt people set bootup passwords to be nearly as long as a gnupg passphrase05:18
pwnguini imagine the kind of person with a bootup password would05:19
jdongpwnguin: takes me nearly 20 seconds to type in my gnupg passphrase, wouldn't want to do that at boot :)05:19
imbrandonjdong, i see your point but i have no awnser , nor would i care to speculate05:19
jdongimbrandon: understood :)05:19
imbrandon20 seconds? fck05:19
jdongimbrandon: it's a 25-character fairly random thing05:19
pwnguindoes that make it more secure?05:20
jdongI just stuck like 4 pwgen passwords together05:20
pwnguinit gets hashed i thought05:20
jdongpwnguin: in a way, yes.....05:20
imbrandonK2r0L7x9 ??05:20
ajmitchpwnguin: it's there to impress the MIT ladies who he hangs round ;)05:20
jdongpwnguin: if you are brute forcing a strengthened key, I'd argue that whether it's 5 chars or 100, it makes little difference05:20
jdongpwnguin: but if you are sitting next to me and I'm typing my passphrase, it makes a world of difference05:20
pwnguini have no clue what a "strengthened" key is05:21
jdongpwnguin: hash the passphrase 100,000 times05:21
jdongpwnguin: so it takes like 1 second to guess each passphrase05:21
jdongpwnguin: makes brute forcing pretty impossible :)05:21
pwnguinno it doesnt05:21
jdongpwnguin: it's a serious deterrent05:21
pwnguin2, 3, 4, 5 etc05:21
jdongpwnguin: each takes 100,000 times longer to try05:21
pwnguinthey no longer correspond to meaningful passwords, but who cares?05:22
imbrandonto match the end hash ? why05:22
jdongpwnguin: a 5-char strenthened key would take the same time to brute force as a 500,000 char unstrengthened one05:22
pwnguinjdong: only if you bother trying 1 char hased pwds, then 2, and so on05:22
jdongpwnguin: well it amplifies the bitlength of your hash, regardless of your actual passphrase05:23
jdongpwnguin: so yes, if you are stepping through possible values of the key, it doesn't "make a difference"05:23
jdongbut even like a 2-char password is like a 1024-bit or whatever key05:23
jdongit is a letdown to brute-forcers :)05:23
pwnguinassuming gpg doesnt truncate it05:23
pwnguinits not though05:23
pwnguinits a let down to dictionary attacks05:24
pwnguinand MAYBE brute force attacks starting from short passwords05:24
pwnguinthe point brandon brought up was that the distributed rsa cracking broke a 40bit key in like less than a day (they got lucky, mostly)05:25
jdongpwnguin: well it surely makes 2-char passphrases just as hard to crack as 10-char ones05:25
jdongpwnguin: and I guess that was my ultimate point, you will have to search over the entire length of the key, regardless of the strength of your passphrase05:26
imbrandonsnap, what have i done05:26
jdongpwnguin: which in the case of GPG I'm betting governments aside people don't have the resources to do it05:26
jdongoh well, I'll go elsewhere hunting for answers to this05:27
pwnguinwell, go look up how big a gpg passphrase is05:27
imbrandonthat and getting time on a sun grid computer isnt tough05:27
pwnguinas far as when to revoke keys05:27
pwnguinthats a policy thing05:27
pwnguinno book can really prove your key secure05:27
jdongiter+salt S2K, algo: 3, SHA1 protection, hash: 2, salt: ...05:30
jdongso it's SHA1 iterated 2000 times?05:31
jdongI think?05:31
imbrandonmy passphrase is "killbill" :)05:31
* imbrandon lol's05:31
imbrandonwonder how many people DO use dictionary passwords though05:31
jdongimbrandon: I bet a lot05:33
pwnguinpsh security smurity05:34
pwnguini use a fingerprint reader to log in05:34
jdongI don't understand why fingerprint readers are a good idea05:34
pwnguinbecause it's easier than typing in a password when you dont have a keyboard handy05:35
jdongwhy not authenticate with skin flakes, dirty socks, hair (for aging men), or any of the other things we leave around everywhere we go??05:35
pwnguinthey're basically not05:35
jdongthat's what I thought....05:35
jdongI thought the point of a authentication key was to use something that is idnetifiable to you, but others would not be able to obtain :)05:35
pwnguinimbrandon: what about my identical evil twin!?!05:35
jdongimbrandon: that would be a sucky ID too :)05:35
StevenKI thought identical twins had different fingerprints?05:36
pwnguinits a bit harder than you'd think to recover a fingerpritn05:36
imbrandonyea but it was kinda funny in judge dred05:36
pwnguinStevenK: but very similar dna :P05:36
StevenKimbrandon: I've not seen that.05:36
imbrandonpwnguin, but easier than you think to use it once you get it, photocopy your finger and use it on the scanner if you have the toshiba type05:37
imbrandonit WORKS heh05:37
pwnguini do05:37
pwnguini'll try that05:37
imbrandonStevenK, futureistic movie where the cops ( judges ) had guns that when fired put a "dna" stamp on the bullet so they would know who killed who05:37
imbrandonpwnguin, my little bro has one, a photocopy works 80% or more of the time on his05:38
pwnguinbut most serious people suggest using fingerprints in two part auithentication05:38
StevenKimbrandon: Oh, I know the title, I've just not seen the movie05:38
imbrandonkinda corny, but its ok, better than some stuff05:39
StevenKSeems a bit like Fortress05:39
StevenK(Not in plot or storyline, but general feel)05:39
imbrandonnot seen that one05:39
imbrandonman i need a new computer chair, this one sucks to sit at long peroids05:40
StevenKOh that's right, Christopher Lambert is the main guy05:40
imbrandonmmmm lazyboy recliner with a arm tray for a external mouse and a macbook pro, mmmmmmmm05:40
CarlFKWhere is the place to log suggestions?  (synaptic - in addition to "import key from file" add "dl key from url")05:41
imbrandonCarlFK, wiki/IdeaPool05:41
imbrandoni should have timed this build05:42
imbrandonits takin forever05:42
imbrandonall so i dont have to install windows05:42
mneptokthe robs are multiplying05:48
Hobbseeas long as it's not hte mneptoks multiplying...05:50
ajmitchwhat a disturbing thought05:54
=== rob1 is now known as rob
imbrandonperhaps #ubuntu-classroom should be muted untill the talks06:03
* Hobbsee composes a mail to the MOTU mailing list.06:09
whiteHobbsee: I'll come to sydney btw :)06:14
Hobbseewhite: woot!06:15
whitea bit offtopic, but it just came into my mind :)06:15
whiteHobbsee: i'll travel around a bit, when I come back from Germany :)06:15
whiteHobbsee: I will be in sydney around the 7th of January06:15
* Hobbsee rereads this, hits send.06:17
* Hobbsee waits for the fur to fly06:17
HobbseeScottK: ^06:17
Hobbseeright.  mail send.06:21
nixternalI don't think I will ever upload again... Hobbsee you scared me from even uploading to my PPA :)06:26
Hobbseenixternal: :)06:26
* Hobbsee hugs nixternal06:26
Hobbseenixternal: just test first.  it's not that hard.06:26
Hobbseebesides, for ppa's, people expect breakage, to some degree.06:27
nixternalI test everything, and then I use #ubuntu-chicago as my guinnea pigs06:27
Hobbseethen you're fine :06:27
Hobbsee* :)06:27
nixternalya, but they aren't06:27
Hobbseenixternal: haha06:27
nixternalsuckahs fall for my rootkitted amarok2 packages all day long :D06:27
Hobbseenixternal: really, we're not going to kill you for not finding a corner case.  but to not test it at *all*....06:27
nixternaloh, I totally understand...I want to make core-dev this next cycle, so I am a test-a-holic06:28
Hobbseenixternal: :)06:34
pkernNightrose: Nothing yet.06:46
dholbachgood morning06:47
ion_Could someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=298 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=299? Thanks.06:48
Hobbseegood morning dholbach06:49
dholbachheya Hobbsee :)06:50
Hobbseedholbach: i havent quit motu yet.06:51
Hobbseebut at this point, i'm starting to ponder doing all my merges now, incase i do.06:52
dholbachHobbsee: having everything merged early is a good thing, but what has that to do with quitting MOTU?06:54
Hobbseedholbach: have you seen the MOTU mailing list yet?06:54
dholbachwhich message are you referring to?06:54
Hobbseegnumed-client SRU06:55
dholbachI hadn't read that06:55
* elkbuntu notes that pounding footpaths is quick becoming a really ineffective way of looking for work06:56
dholbachI agree that we should emphasize the testing part of it06:57
Hobbseedholbach: frankly, I cant see the point of being part of something that the people involved dont care about at all.  If our MOTUs don't care at all about QA, and prove that they don't, then the project is worthless.  It's intended to be helpful to our users - not to break our systems by throwing untested crap in there.  If it's a garbage dump of a whole bunch of stuff that might work, then I really can't see the point of being involved - nor06:57
Hobbseewhy I might want to be affiliated with it.06:57
HobbseeIt would be better to go to somewhere like debian, where at least the Maintainers actually *care* about what they upload, and their users.06:58
dholbachHobbsee: can you tell me how many uploads are untested or screw the systems?06:58
superm1ion_, i looked over 298.  Looks good to me.06:58
superm1hi everyone06:58
dholbachhi superm106:58
Hobbseedholbach: the one listed in that mail, the fiasco with audacious plugins.06:58
dholbachHobbsee: I agree with you: we need to do more testing, but I really think you're exaggerating06:58
dholbachit's not that MOTU is an uncontrollable bunch of people who upload *random* crack06:59
ion_superm1: Thanks06:59
Hobbseelooking at the sponsorship queue a couple of days ago, it looks like more were broken.06:59
dholbachyou're not doing the team justics06:59
superm1dholbach, well except for jdong and RAOF and they're crack filled packages :)06:59
Hobbseeupstream fix to a stable release with no testing at all is crack.06:59
=== jsgotangco_ is now known as greeneggsnospam
dholbachI wouldn't be that quick to judge on the whole team and the myriads of uploads we did and fixes we developed06:59
Hobbseeno, but a team is only as good as it's weakest link.06:59
dholbachHobbsee: please calm down07:00
Hobbseein the case of QA>07:00
dholbachgeser is not the weakest link07:00
Hobbseei'm perfectly calm...07:00
=== greeneggsnospam is now known as jeromesg
Hobbseedholbach: disappointed, yes.  but completely calm.07:00
dholbachinstead of yelling at people or considering to leave the team it'd make more sense to find out what we can do to improve our QA07:01
Hobbseethat's only worht attempting to do if you can get the high ups to actually implement it.07:01
* imbrandon blinks07:01
imbrandonheya dholbach07:01
superm1ion_, regarding 299, you list two different bzr branches in debian/copyright and debian/control07:01
dholbachhey imbrandon07:01
superm1ion_, is that intentional?07:02
dholbachHobbsee: we should discuss this instead of asking for policies how to deal with such people07:02
dholbachHobbsee: as a team we'll find a way07:02
Hobbseedholbach: my main problem with that is that such discussions usually turn out to be bikeshedding, or lost in the space of time, and nothing ever gets decided.07:02
ion_superm1: The branch in debian/control contains the packaging; the branch in debian/copyright contains the actual software.07:03
superm1ion_, ah okay.07:03
dholbachHobbsee: I'm not going to accept that argument - if it were true we could stop all kinds of discussions07:04
dholbachif you're not interested in helping to find a measure, that's fine07:04
Hobbseedholbach: i am, at least somewhat, but the question si more if i have the confidence that the decision will be reached?07:04
dholbachif you're not sure you want to, leave it, that's fine07:05
Hobbseedholbach: what do *you* think we should do about our QA?07:05
Hobbseeparticularly if we cant trust some of our MOTU's to DTRT07:05
dholbachlet's discuss this rationally on the mailing list07:05
dholbachwe CAN trust07:06
dholbachour processes are all based on trust07:06
dholbachI'll follow up on the mailing list07:07
dholbachHobbsee: can we have a call about that?07:07
Hobbseeit seems that we trust people to DTRT, even if they obviously don't.  perhaps that works, perhaps that doesn't.  there's a very real risk of burying our proverbial heads in the sand, that way.07:07
dholbachgeser did a mistake07:07
dholbach"all is lost" is not really where we're standing now07:08
StevenKWho said anything about that?07:08
HobbseeStevenK: about which?07:08
StevenKI also didn't read that from Hobbsee's mail.07:08
dholbachStevenK: "we cant trust some of our MOTU's to DTRT"07:08
elkbuntuStevenK, the tone of the conversation07:08
dholbachthat's not where we're standing at07:08
dholbachwe can improve the SRU documentation, we can talk to individuals, we can make changes in the process of educating new MOTUs or come up with other ideas to raise awareness07:10
dholbachI believe that calling for sanctions or policies "how to deal with people who did wrong" is not going to help07:10
Hobbseedholbach: i'm not meaning to convey an "all is lost" attitude here.  What i'm now pondering is whether I want to still be involved, based on what the MOTU attitudes seem to have changed to.07:10
superm1ion_, +1 on 299 also.  great work :)07:10
dholbachto you it seems that "all is lost"07:11
ion_superm1: Thanks again. :-)07:11
dholbachgeser did a mistake, I haven't talked to him yet, he should have tested it07:11
Hobbseedholbach: i'm also wondering why the attitudes have changed, and whether the MOTU's are happy with them having changed.07:12
dholbachHobbsee: but viewing this as "the change in attitude MOTUs have gone through" is the wrong perception07:12
Hobbseedholbach: why?07:12
dholbachbecause 1 person did 1 mistake07:12
dholbachwe always had broken uploads in a while07:12
dholbachor somebody who took testing not seriously enough07:13
dholbachbut calling the whole system broken because of that, is going too far07:13
dholbachgeser is doing a very good job elsewhere07:13
dholbachbut I, too, would have preferred it if this hadn't happened07:13
Hobbseedholbach: granted, he does not speak for everyone.07:14
Hobbseedholbach: but i'm surprised that *any* of our MOTU's did this.07:14
elkbuntuHobbsee, why... they are still human, are they not?07:14
dholbachit has happened before and it will happen again07:14
Hobbseei think that whether the system is broken, or people's level of apathy are different issues.07:15
dholbachbut I trust our people, especially I trust them to learn and to fix their mistakes07:15
dholbachthe system is not broken07:15
Hobbseeelkbuntu: no, they all turned into green aliens :P07:15
Hobbseedholbach: indeed.  but people's level of apathy, on not calling them on their errors, may well be.07:15
dholbachI don't think that's what's happening07:16
dholbachI told you yesterday, that replying to the upload mail is what people have done in the past and still do07:16
dholbachit's happening07:16
dholbachwe don't need a punishment policy07:17
Hobbseedholbach: to make this clear, i'm *not* bitching about the fact that a possible regresison wasnt picked up.  I'm bitching over the fact that a guy willfully did not test at all - which i'm unsure if that classes as a "mistake"07:17
Hobbseedholbach: yeah, because people came to me, and asked me what should be done about it, and i told them to reply to the upload mail to the MOTU ML>07:17
elkbuntuHobbsee, error in judgement is still an error07:17
dholbachHobbsee: bitching does not help07:18
dholbachplease try to think about this in a rational way07:18
jake123hello. i know i'm totally in the wrong room, but i'm new to irc and trying to join #python but it says i need to be identified, even though i've set up a screen name and password. can anyone help? i know this has to be a stupid question, so forgive me07:18
nixternal!register > jake12307:18
Hobbseedholbach: i am.  if i werent, i'd be going on a witch-hunt about geser :P07:18
Hobbseejake123: /msg nickserv identify jake123 <yourfreenodepassword>07:19
StevenKHobbsee: You get the flaming torches, and I'll get the pitchfo ... Ohhh07:19
dholbachwe have different notions of bitching then07:20
Hobbseedholbach: oh, indeed.  i don't think i used the right word there.07:20
elkbuntuHobbsee, forgive me for saying this, but the impression you've managed to give *is* one of a witch-hunt07:20
Hobbseeelkbuntu: granted.  i'm attempting for this to be more general, but i've not seemed to have suceeded.07:20
TheMusodholbach: To me, its not about making our processes better. You can tell people to do anything. Whether they will or not, or more to the point, whether they think about whether they should do something or not, and then whether they will or not, is another story.07:20
Hobbseeelkbuntu: which is why i'm trying not to mention geser by name, etc.07:21
jake123it doesn't seem to be doing anythign. what am i doing wrong guys?07:21
Hobbseeelkbuntu: (because others also did this close to release, and i havent mentioned them by name either)07:21
TheMusoWe NEED to make sure that any update to a stable release must be tested, no questions asked.07:21
Hobbseejake123: chekc your server window?07:21
dholbachlet's make this a rational thread on the mailing list07:21
imbrandonjake123, the people in #freenode could probably help you more, thats the official help channel07:22
elkbuntuHobbsee, i dont doubt that, nor the seriousness, but i agree with dholbach that this discussion is not going to achieve anything other than a dip in team morale07:22
jake123ok sry to bother u guys07:22
persiaI'd like to suggest that even a rational discussion on the mailing list won't help much either: the policies have already been established.  If there is truly a cultural issue (apathy or inattention to process), that is best solved through repeated examples of best practice here, rather than another announcement about the right way to do things.07:24
=== doko_ is now known as doko
dholbachwe can highlight things in the documentation, we can talk to people, we can do repeated announcements and other things07:25
* ajmitch reads scrollback & the motu mailing list07:25
ajmitchoh my07:25
nixternallions, and tiger, and bears!07:26
TheMusodholbach: That does exactly nothing to get the message accross that testing is needed, IMO.07:26
dholbachbut suggesting that "we can not trust" really hurts me, because I think that it's the core of our culture here07:26
dholbachTheMuso: suggestions?07:26
TheMusodholbach: Not currently, but it is something I am certainly giving thought to.07:27
dholbachthanks a lot for that TheMuso07:27
nixternalI don't believe in common sense, I think it is a myth...but one would have to error not only on the side of caution but use common sense by instinct I would think when it comes to SRUs07:27
nixternalamarok2 is almost done building w/o any cmake link errors, so nevermind my giddiness :)07:28
Burgundaviaoh joy07:28
ajmitchhello Burgundavia07:28
Burgundaviahey ajmitch07:28
imbrandonnixternal, nice07:28
imbrandonheya Burgundavia07:28
nixternalmakeobj[0]: Leaving directory `/home/kde-devel/kde/build/KDE/extragear/multimedia/amarok'07:28
nixternalthat means it worked...07:29
ajmitchBurgundavia: why the oh joy?07:29
imbrandonnixternal, got it packaged ?07:29
Burgundaviathe previous discussion, ajmitch07:29
nixternal<unknown program name>(23590)/: KUniqueApplication: Cannot find the D-Bus session server07:29
ajmitchBurgundavia: ah, the excitement07:29
nixternaland that means I need to boot back into kde4 :)07:29
nixternalimbrandon: we already have it packaged in the repos07:29
Hobbseepersia: that was basically what i was thinking.07:30
* dholbach gets some coffee07:30
* imbrandon gets some Mt. Dew07:30
ajmitchdholbach: you'll need it :)07:30
BurgundaviaHobbsee: does the MOTU council not have something in place for dealing with issues of a packager not following QA07:30
ajmitchBurgundavia: it hasn't been needed07:31
StevenKAnd from what dholbach says, isn't needed.07:31
persiaHobbsee: While I agree with much of your sentiment, I can't also agree with your methods.07:31
imbrandonthat and to what level do you hold the QA? it dosent degfault? not every bug ( or any bug ) will be caught in QA07:31
HobbseeBurgundavia: nope.  there were vague discussions about it at UDS, but nothing ever came of them.  This si one of the great problems with MOTU - unpopular decisions tend to get put off, and dont get done.07:31
nixternaljust hurry up and get the toolchain rolling...I have a list of merges here that will put the Sears Tower to shame07:31
* ajmitch has no outstanding universe merges07:32
BurgundaviaHobbsee: it is not a problme just with MOTU, fear not07:32
Burgundavianow, the issue at hand is that something went to -proposed without a test by the uploader, yes?07:32
nixternalsomeone warned me of a Tellico merge the other night07:32
HobbseeBurgundavia: oh, indeed.07:32
persiaBurgundavia: More generally, there are no control mechanisms at all.  In many ways, that is nice, because it makes it easy to do things.07:32
ajmitchpart of the 'problem' is probably that we run fairly loosely07:33
nixternalthis cycle I have to get libhttp into debian as another name under the embedded project, sync it to Ubuntu, and hack the hell out of Plucker...which has been dead for a while, but people live by it it seems07:33
persiaimbrandon: builds, installs, runs, addresses known issue, exits cleanly, removes, purges is a good minimum.07:33
Burgundaviacorrect me if I am wrong, but an upload to proposed without testing is an issue, but it was not as if it went to gutsy live07:33
* Hobbsee notes that a pbuilder hook will test most of them.07:33
HobbseeBurgundavia: indeed.  but it's still rather worrying07:34
imbrandonwhoa hold on, this is for an upload to -proposed ? thats where the testing is SUPOSE to happen07:35
* imbrandon looks perplexed07:35
ajmitchimbrandon: yes, but you'd generally expect at least a minimum of testing before it gets there07:35
Burgundaviafrom an outsiders perspective, if a package installs/uninstalls cleanly and starts, that is the only testing that needs to happen before it goes to -proposed07:36
imbrandonajmitch, mimimum means many diffrent things, to me a patch that applies cleanly and it builds and installs is minimum07:36
imbrandonBurgundavia, exactly07:36
Hobbseeimbrandon: hopefully upgrades too07:36
dholbachStevenK: that's not what I said07:36
ajmitchimbrandon: ok, how about "appears to fix the problem"07:36
dholbachStevenK: I said a couple of times that we can talk to people07:36
imbrandonHobbsee, heh yea but thats just a versioning issue, and sometimes those are tricky07:36
ajmitchgiven that MOTUs can't test everything, and may not be affected at all by the bug07:37
HobbseeBurgundavia: the worrying part there is how many people are using -proposed as part of their regular reposet, so it seems we do need some QA in there at all07:37
Hobbseeimbrandon: granted.07:37
persiaimbrandon: Testing does happen in -proposed, but an upload to proposed should receive the same level or pre-upload QA as any other upload.07:37
nixternalfor instance, think of the smb4k bug where the dev patched it, it got uploaded into proposed, pushed into stable, and I ended up finding out the patch totally wipes out /etc/sudoers07:37
BurgundaviaHobbsee: if somebody uses proposed as part of their reposet, that is an issues07:37
nixternalso there definitely needs to be testing07:37
BurgundaviaHobbsee: we should make it so that the GUI tools warn if you try and install from -proposed07:37
Burgundaviaother than that, it is not a major issue that I can see07:38
HobbseeBurgundavia: it says "pre-released updates"07:38
imbrandonnixternal, thats just a failed system then because it should have been well tested by multi people before uplaoding to stable07:38
BurgundaviaHobbsee: does it pop up a warning on the update manager. The only people I can see being bitten by this are people who have added it accidentally or for another package07:38
nixternalthat ended up being my first security fix, and the dev praised myself and kees for finding it and fixing it07:39
nixternalit twas a mess for sure07:39
StevenKI'd expect the uploader (and the bug fixer, if they aren't the same person) to have tested the package builds, installs, upgrades and has no regressions before it is uploaded.07:39
HobbseeBurgundavia: it lists them as "proposed", but doesnt give a very big warning about it or anything, no.07:39
HobbseeBurgundavia: the trouble with warnings is that people tend to ignore them.07:39
imbrandonso basicly this is breaking down to "where is the checklist that i NEED to do before i upload" i know there are unsaid ones but i mean a well defined one, if there isnt, thats the first step and nothing else can be done past that07:39
BurgundaviaHobbsee: that is a bug that needs to be filed07:39
nixternalit could have easily gone through a install/uninstall, run, shutdown like I keep seeing...that type of testing won't catch it...you would have to actually use it for about 15 minutes playing around with settings first07:39
HobbseeBurgundavia: good point.  i only started using it < a week ago07:40
imbrandonHobbsee, then fix the root of the problem, warn people not to use proposed except to test07:40
BurgundaviaHobbsee: however, the issue is thus: I think MOTU needs a small checklist of things to do before the updater pushes to -proposed07:40
Hobbseeimbrandon: that's a decent idea.  i thought we actualyl had a checklist.07:40
nixternalI would think the only ones using proposed are those with experience anyways...I don't use proposed, and I know many who don't as well07:41
ajmitchnixternal: people see shiny, new stuff07:41
imbrandonyea we cant bitch about something not being done if its not written policy to be done07:41
nixternalso warning someone that it is dangerous that already know it is dangerous is like telling me that cigars is bad for my health07:41
nxvlimbrandon: can u helping me with th merge i'm doing?07:41
imbrandonnxvl, i can try, you will have much more luck asking specific questions in here and we'll all try our best to point you in the right way07:42
* Hobbsee would expect checking it to ensure it runs would be helpful07:42
imbrandonnixternal, fire will burn you07:42
nxvlimbrandon: ok, let's do so07:42
nixternalya, so will the devil when I meet him one day07:42
StevenKBurgundavia: I really like that idea.07:42
ubotuStable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates07:43
imbrandonStevenK, i said it first , hahahahah just playing07:43
imbrandonBurgundavia, speaking of, how ya been ltns07:43
Burgundaviaschool has been kicking my ass07:44
TheMusoI also think it wouldn't hurt having a easily findable list of the upgrade paths we support.07:44
Burgundaviagot two midterms this week that were re-re-scheduled at the last minute07:44
imbrandonTheMuso, true , afaik its only release to next release and LTS to LTS07:45
StevenKimbrandon: Right.07:45
imbrandonbut it might be good to have that prominate somewhere07:45
ajmitchBurgundavia: wonderful!07:45
nixternalBurgundavia: join the "school has been kicking my ass" club07:45
nixternalmy dumb ass is doing 8 credit hours to complete my masters, and then for the hell of it, I decided to take 14 hours of compsci courses07:46
imbrandonuht ohhh, ohhh noes, last cigarette and i'm not going to the store this late, looks like its almost bedtime07:46
nixternalluckily, the 8 credit hours are field survey courses07:46
Hobbseehm, the sru process doesnt say when the package should get uploaded to -proposed, for universe07:46
nixternalomg, did you hear that?07:46
nixternalmy pillow just yelled out my name07:47
ajmitchgoodbye mr nixternal07:47
persiaIf documentation is being updated, it may be worth taking a clos look at the SRU page.  It indicates that it should be uploaded (step 2), published (step 3), and then tested by the interested party (step 4.1)07:47
ajmitchyay for documenting common sense07:47
imbrandonHobbsee, as soon as its debsigned? heh07:47
Hobbseeimbrandon: as in, as a step on that list.07:48
imbrandonHobbsee, well since its the begingin of the process i would assume step 1, i need to go back and look07:48
Hobbseeimbrandon: it seems our documentation does instruct them to test, but perhaps after the upload to -proposed07:49
persiaHobbsee: I'd say that step 1 includes first testing, then bug cleanup, then (implied) upload.07:49
imbrandonHobbsee, yes, and this is exactly what i said07:49
Hobbseepersia: right07:49
persiaGrr..  This page is really not written to be helpful for people who can upload directly.07:50
TheMusopersia: I was only thinking that earlier today.07:50
imbrandononly minimal testing needs to be done before upload , patch applys clean builds installs upgrades removes , then wider testing is done via -proposed, that is what that repo is for07:50
persiaimbrandon: Can we add "runs" and "fixes reported issue" to that list?07:50
StevenKAlong with "no regressions" ?07:51
imbrandonpersia, sure if we come up with an "official" list for uploads, but if we add toooo much to the list wth is the point of -proposed, just upload it directly to -updates ;)07:51
persiaStevenK: As much as I'm fond of QA, I think "no regressions" is something that may not be obvious to the uploader, even with basic testing.07:51
StevenKOkay, no serious regressions?07:52
Hobbseeimbrandon: seeing as the original uploader has to do the work in -proposed or -updates, the point is moot for then07:52
persiaimbrandon: For others to test, with different configurations, and different use cases, to expose regressions, new bugs introduced, etc.07:52
Hobbseethe purpose of -proposed would be for other people to test it out, and do what persia said.07:52
imbrandonHobbsee, i was being a cynic, i know the real point07:52
imbrandonbut yea07:53
persiaMore explicity, applying and uploading a patch without verifying that it addresses the reported issue is just a waste of other people's time.07:53
Hobbseepersia: i think that's what i'm most annoyed about.07:53
Hobbseetime is precious, and to waste other people's time is incredibly rude.07:53
ajmitchpersia: given in this case, the patch was supplied by upstream to fix the issue07:53
Hobbseeand it also reflects on the distro, of course07:53
imbrandonHobbsee, kick ass i totaly agree with you two, but the real problem here is that is no where in writing so how do you enforce something thats not stated explisitly07:54
persiaHobbsee: If that is what is annoying you, you'll do better to complain about rudeness than trust.  If we can't trust each other, we have a huge issue.  If we're impolite, we can discuss, and address that rationally.07:54
Hobbseeimbrandon: granted.  we should all fix that.07:54
Hobbseei thought it was there07:54
imbrandongreat that would be a better use of our time than arguring about mis-trust and such07:54
Hobbseeimbrandon: although one kinda leads to the other...07:55
persiaajmitch: You may be correct.  I haven't looked at the patch, or tested it.  I trust geser more than I trust upstream, and his opinion weighs a lot more than the original inventor.  If upstream was always right, there'd be very little for us to do.07:55
imbrandonnot exactly, my faith in ubuntu and -proposed hasent flickered, everyone views everything a tad diffrent, but i do agree we should get this going,07:55
ajmitchpersia: right, the patch was to fix an incompatibility between the package in question & a python library it depended on07:56
imbrandonsoooooo without further adue why dont we / you / someone sugest a starter list and we add it to the wiki or ML07:56
imbrandonbrb checking kernel compile progress07:57
Hobbseeimbrandon: because i have to go to work :)07:57
* persia suggests "Patch applies", "result builds", "package upgrades cleanly", "application runs", "reported issue cannot be reproduced", "package uninstalls cleanly", "package purges cleanly".07:57
Hobbseepersia: +107:57
StevenKpersia: +107:57
dholbachthanks a lot persia07:58
imbrandonHobbsee, heh yea RL sucks at times, but does that sound like a sane first step ?07:58
Hobbseeimbrandon: yes07:58
ajmitchpersia: it's adequate, if the person uploading can reproduce the issue in question07:58
imbrandonpersia, looks good to me07:58
ajmitchoften you'll have to rely on the testing of others to verify that the problem that they saw, is no longer present07:59
imbrandonajmitch, yea that was one of my things sometimes i dont have the hardware to test a given issue but i can make a upload for others to test07:59
persiaajmitch: I agree completely.  If the uploader cannot verify, I'd hope they'd ask for testing here with a pointer to a candidate debdiff or the like.07:59
imbrandonbut the others should be no brainers07:59
ajmitchpersia: in that case, I'd suggest using PPAs08:00
ajmitchas controversial as they may be ;)08:00
imbrandonunless its non x86 hardware then ppa are useless08:00
imbrandone.g. PPC only issue08:00
imbrandonor some such08:00
* StevenK coughs abd hacks, ubuntuwire08:00
ajmitchimbrandon: it doesn't matter, really - whatever crackful build system people want to use08:01
imbrandonStevenK, hehe yea i really wish we could have kept that going, maybe i'll spark some more intrest at UDS08:01
TheMusoIf people really need PPC hardware to build/test stuff on, I would be happy to give access.08:01
TheMusoGranted its only a G4, but its something.08:01
imbrandonTheMuso, hehe yea it was justa  example when "sometimes" that one rule might be an issue08:01
persiaajmitch: Perhaps.  I don't know that we need binaries.  Most of us can apply a debdiff fairly easily.  PPAs or private builds are also acceptable for initial testing (in my opinion)08:01
ajmitchthe majority of issues will be x86/amd64 anyway, and the suggestion to use PPAs doesn't mean it's the only thing that people are allowed to use08:01
imbrandonok sounds like the majority of the use cases are solved, i think anything else we can do on a case by case08:02
ajmitchpersia: right, most of us can, sometimes you'd want binaries for others to test, but that's blurring the line between pre-upload testing & -proposed08:02
imbrandonright there isnt much diffrence between own buld for someone else to test and -proposed08:03
imbrandonbut ..08:03
* imbrandon kicks gcc08:03
ajmitchexcept the level of 'official'08:03
ajmitchanyway, I can't really comment, not being active :)08:03
nxvlok, i'm merging efax-gtk and i've generated the ubuntu.debdiff and debian.debdiff, but i'm not quite sure what to do now with them08:04
nxvlwhat i've understand08:04
imbrandonone thing that we might ask the archive admins to do is not sign the -proposed repo, thus you always get a warning aobut unauthenticaed when installing something from there08:04
imbrandonajmitch / StevenK / persia ^^08:04
StevenKimbrandon: If that is even possible.08:04
persiaimbrandon: The main difference I see is that once we push to -proposed, we invite random testing from lots of willing update testing participants (who are a great help to our SRU process).  I'd rather at least verify we're not breaking something before asking their help.08:04
imbrandonthat might help to with "this is testing ONLY" repo08:04
nxvlis to look at ubuntu.debdiff and the see if the changes are in debian.debdiff, am i on the right way?08:05
imbrandonnxvl, yup08:05
imbrandonStevenK, it should be , the PPA's are unsigned08:05
nxvlimbrandon: and the only way to that is inspection?08:06
StevenKDo not compare PPAs with the offical archive.08:06
StevenKThey are nothing alike.08:06
persiaimbrandon: I'd rather have -proposed sign.  it makes it safer for the -proposed testing participants (who often catch possible regressions during the testing period)08:06
imbrandonStevenK, well they both use soyuz etc , point is its "possible"08:06
persianxvl: Depending on the nature of the different patches, you may find diff comparison tools useful.08:07
nxvlpersia: wich tools?08:07
StevenKnxvl: Tools such as diffstat, interdiff and filterdiff08:08
nxvli have never heard about they before08:08
* nxvl googles08:08
persianxvl: They are in the patchutils package08:09
* Hobbsee --> work08:09
imbrandonok so is persia's checklist ok for the ML or should we go streight to the wiki and then the ML ?08:09
persiaimbrandon: Best would be to put a draft on the wiki, and discuss during the next MOTU Meeting, but that's weeks away.  I'd suggest a ML post (in a new thread) noting that the wiki will be updated in 2 days unless there is opposition.08:10
imbrandonsounds good to me, i'll draft an email then while i'm waiting on this kernel to build, dholbach you OK with that ?08:11
imbrandon( or anyone else )08:11
RAOFion_: With regard to hardware-connected on revu - you ship an exportsrc script in debian/.  (1) It's not executable, which would be nice, and (2) could you instead make that a get-orig-source target of debian/rules?  That'd be a bit more standard.08:11
persiaimbrandon: Thanks for drafting it.08:12
RAOFion_: Other than that it seems a pretty inoffensive package ;)08:12
imbrandonpersia, np , i'm just glad we could come up with something other than geser on a cross :)08:14
StevenKimbrandon: Why not both?08:14
ajmitchI'm sure it wouldn't have gone *quite* that far08:14
persiaimbrandon: Nah.  We don't really want that.  Someone else would have to do his 200 uploads for hardy.08:14
ion_raof: I don’t think there’s a way to make it executable. dpkg-source only makes debian/rules executable after applying the diff. exportsrc not only exports a tarball out of the upstream branch, but also exports a diff out of the packaging branch and builds a source package out of them. That’s a lot more than what get-orig-source would do.08:15
ajmitchpersia: I'd say that StevenK would, but he probably doesn't want to add to the 3498 he's already got lined up08:15
* persia thinks StevenK's fingers aren't fast enough to upload any more packages08:15
ajmitchpersia: you think wrongly08:15
ajmitchpersia: http://xkcd.com/208/ <-- stevenk with his mad skills08:17
nxvlit will be wonderfull if documentation about the diffutils will be on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging since it's kind of needed08:17
StevenKajmitch: Muahaha08:18
persiaajmitch: Yep.  The missing .desktop finding script on the wiki is the result of such a vine swing.08:18
StevenKAnd I didn't even write it!08:18
dholbachimbrandon: sure08:18
StevenK(... or did I?)08:19
imbrandonajmitch, hahahah classic08:19
persianxvl: That page is actually going away soon, and the target page is expected to have such information.  Apologies for the inconvenience whilst we remodel.08:19
persiaStevenK: It's copyright you.  If you didn't write it, someone else did, and assigned it to you.  (searh for "owal" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles)08:20
ajmitchhi siretart08:20
imbrandonheya siretart08:21
persiamorning siretart08:21
siretartheyha ajmitch && imbrandon && persia08:21
StevenKHrm. I think I did write it - it looks like my Perl08:21
StevenKI think I need a database to keep track of the Ubuntu work I do. :-)08:26
nxvlpersia: wich target page?08:27
ajmitchwould there be one big enough?08:27
persiaStevenK: Does LP not provide enough guidance?08:27
persianxvl: I forget exactly: it's listed in the header block for that page.  I suspect it will end up somewhere in PackagingGuide, but you'll do best to check.08:28
StevenKLP can tell me which packages I've touched, not if I've spent 20 mintes writing a script like that, or if I've looked at a bug for 2 hours and given up in disgust.08:28
nxvlpersia: can it be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging?08:28
persiaAh.  Proper time accounting, etc.  You could be the first ISO9004 compliant contributor :)08:28
nxvlpersia: well, the point is that i will we bonderfull if that docs are somewhere in there, cause they help a LOT08:29
StevenKpersia: I don't so much care about time accounting, just what I've touched.08:29
persianxvl: The page you've just referenced will be merged into UbuntuDevelopment.  Once the current reorganisation is complete, there will be a review, and missing things will be added.  Would you mind keeping track of anything you think is missing, and checking once the reorganisation is complete?08:30
persiaStevenK: Ah.  I was thinking about the 20 minutes & 2 hours (although due to the customer providing constantly changing requirements, I believe the script actually took 2 or 3 hours)08:31
nxvlpersia: ok, i will do it so, where should i ask for these tools to be included? motu list?08:32
BugMaNhi all! :)08:32
nxvlpersia: or motu-mentors list08:32
* persia is pleased to discover the excellent instructions on using lpbugs to painlessly use Malone to track merge coordination in MOTU/Merging.08:32
persianxvl: I'd suggest that you look at the results of the merge once is is complete, and add the notes where you feel they are appropriate, in the wiki directly.  If you'd like assistance or review in preparing the best text, this channel is a good place to ask (at the time you are preparing the text)08:33
nxvlpersia: ok, when i lern how this tools work i will :D08:36
imbrandonpersia, StevenK, ajmitch, dholbach , email sent please make sure it actualy hits the ML , i cant rember what mail i subscribed to the list from ( i think imbrandon@kubuntu.org and thats where i sent from )08:36
persiaimbrandon: you hit :)08:37
imbrandonkk thanks08:37
warp10Hi all!08:37
nxvlok, so what i need to do is use diff stat to see what files have been modified on ubuntu.debdiff, then filter this files on debian.debdiff with filterdiff, and the compare the result of it with ubuntu.debdiff using filter diff, doesn't i?08:39
persianxvl: That's one of many, many, many ways to do it.08:42
nxvlpersia: it's the simple way?08:42
nxvlor it is simpler ways to do it?08:42
persianxvl: I don't think there's a simple way.  Both MoM and DaD are attempts to make the process simpler, but both still require human oversight.  From a cognitive perspective, you want to understand the new Debian changes, understand the Ubuntu variation, and divine the appropriate ideal solution.08:44
persiaTo do this you might use diff, you might use patch, you might use lsdiff, or filterdiff, diffstat.  It's a matter of how you understand it most easily.08:45
nxvli will try that way08:46
nxvlpersia: thx08:46
siretarttime accounting for ubuntu work seems interesting08:46
siretartwhat do people use in this channel for time accounting?08:46
gnomefreakhow do i get dput to upload everything but tarball08:47
imbrandonhrm i have never actualy thought about doing it08:47
imbrandongnomefreak, debuild -S -sd ?08:47
gnomefreakit doesnt seem to give me a choice08:47
gnomefreakok ill try08:47
nxvlwhat i'm not clear about its to filter more than one file using filterdiff08:47
imbrandoni have lost many years to ubuntu packages, never thought about tracking it in any "offical" way08:48
imbrandonkinda intersting08:48
* persia doesn't want to do time accounting for ubuntu: it makes it a less efficient agent of procrastination08:49
persianxvl: I believe it takes any regular expression.08:49
nxvlpersia: perl regular expresions or bash ones?08:49
persianxvl: I don't remember.  `man filterdiff`08:50
nxvlit doesn't say08:51
* nxvl googles08:51
nxvli think a script will be better and less waste of time08:53
persianxvl: The problem with a script is that it doesn't do a very good job of getting the information into your brain (and the automated solutions aren't good enough to not receive human review).08:58
nxvlpersia: not a fully process script08:59
nxvli wrote this: for i in $(diffstat ubuntu.debdiff | cut -d" " -f2); do filterdiff -i '*'$i debian.debdiff >> debian_merged.debdiff ; done08:59
nxvlpersia: so what it only does is to extract the changes in both debdiffs08:59
persianxvl: Ah.  Makes sense.  Be careful: sometimes two changes in different places can affect each other.09:00
nxvlpersia: what im looking for, is to see what files have been modified in the 2 of them and wich changes have been made in debian package09:00
nxvlpersia: now i will read the result debdiff and ubuntu debdiff to see what changes i need to do by hand09:01
nxvlpersia: i'm on the right way?09:01
nxvls/i'm/am i/09:01
persianxvl: That's certainly one way to do it.  Just be careful: sometimes two changes don't cause a conflict, but cause behavioural issues.  (e.g. Ubuntu adds a new dh_install line in debian/rules.  Debian creates a debian/install file, and adds information there).09:03
pkernDoes anyone have a clue wrt svn-buildpackage?09:04
nxvlpersia: i'm uploading the debdiff's so u can have a look, can u?09:04
persianxvl: I don't have the environment available right now to verify: I'd only be able to give it a causal look.  You'd do better to subscribe the sponsors team for initial feedback.09:05
nxvlpersia: i only want u to give a casual look to see if i'm on the right way, not to do the process with me09:06
persianxvl: OK then.  Which bug?09:07
ubotuLaunchpad bug 155950 in efax-gtk "Please merge efax-gtk (3.0.15-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]09:08
persianxvl: I don't see the debdiff.09:09
nxvlthere they are09:09
persianxvl: Which would be your candidate revision?09:09
nxvli'm not quite sure about you are asking09:10
nxvlyou meen the new debian version?09:10
nxvlah ok09:10
nxvlwich of the 3 i want you to look at09:10
persiaWhich of those debdiffs represents your work towards a new merged Ubuntu revision?09:10
nxvlit would be debian_merged09:10
nxvldebian.debdiff is the resoult of comparing the old and new version of debian09:11
nxvlubuntu.debdiff of the old debian and old ubuntu09:11
nxvland debian_merged the result of my script09:11
persiaOK.  First, it's best practice to make a debdiff against the current Debian package, to make it easy to review the Ubuntu variation.09:12
persiaSecond, you'll want a changelog entry indicating you merged the package09:12
BugMaNnxvl: i suppose you can change maintainer field also09:12
persiaThird, you'll want to list all the remaining Ubuntu variations in summary in the changelog entry.09:12
nxvlok, for First09:13
persiaFourth, when preparing a debdiff, you'll want to try to avoid the /tmp/9f8xh9 references: it should apply with patch -p0 or patch -p1 (required for native packages).09:13
nxvli was following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging09:14
persiaFifth, as this is not against the Debian package, it's difficult to know if either the standard Ubuntu variations (e.g. maintainer field, etc.) are done, so this isn't a complete review.09:14
nxvland there they make ubuntu and debian debdiff's with old debian, and new ubuntu and debian09:14
nxvlso conclusion my work so far with debdiff's is wrong09:15
nxvlthen i will start once again09:15
persiaRight.  That page shows lots of different diffs.  I don't think you're wrong, just not yet familiar.09:15
nxvlpersia: yes, that is what im thinking :D09:15
persiaThere's no need to start over.  Your last patch, applied to the Ubuntu version, may well generate something very close to the final result you seek.09:16
nxvlpersia: i'm on learning process and beeing wrong most of the time is part of it09:16
nxvlpersia: yes, but i'm not comfortable with "very close" i want it the right way09:16
persiaYou'll just want to follow the last step listed above "Another Approach to Merging", where it indicates you should run `debdiff debian-revision.dsc candidate-revision.dsc > candidate-revision.debdiff`, and use the results thereof to request review & sponsoring.09:17
nxvlfirst of all, i have made NO changes so far09:18
nxvli'm only recolecting information to start working09:18
persianxvl: very close is a good thing.  Items 1 & 5 are really about the debdiff source.  Items 2 & 3 are just a little extra work you need to do.  Item 4 is probably an artifact of the diff process.09:18
nxvlin other words, see what are the changes i need to apply09:18
persianxvl: If you're only collecting information, you're doing the right thing.09:18
nxvlok, i'm kind of confused, so let's start again09:19
nxvli have those 3 debdiff09:19
persiaOK.  Do you understand the changes the Debian maintainer made?09:20
nxvlubuntu.debdiff correspond to old debian against new ubuntu09:20
nxvldebian.debdiff correspond to old debian against new debian09:20
nxvland debian_merged.debdiff is the resoult of filtering the files listed with diffstat on the ubuntu.debdiff on the debian.debdiff09:21
nxvlwhat i want to do with debian_merged.debdiff is the compare it to ubuntu.debdiff and see wich of the changes made in ubuntu, was also made in debian09:22
huatsmorning everyone09:22
nxvlother whing is thar debian.debdiff has also the changes to the source, say in other words the upstream changes, din't it?09:23
persianxvl: It looks like there was an upstream change (at least there was a change to the upstream changelog)09:24
nxvlpersia: it is a new version so it MUST have an upstream change, otherwise there will be no new version, don't you think?09:25
persiaIn this case, you might want to look at the Ubuntu variation between the Ubuntu package and the Debian ancestor package, and then check to see if you need to keep any of the changes.09:25
siretartdoes anyone know Jonathan Nelson <ciasaboark@gmail...>?09:26
nxvlpersia: ok, then you are talking about the ubuntu.debdiff09:26
persianxvl: Right.  Logically break down the changes in ubuntu.debdiff, and then check to see if they should be applied to the new Debian revision.09:27
nxvlpersia: ok, tha changes made by ubuntu where to fix an icon problem LP #10874609:29
ubotuLaunchpad bug 108746 in efax-gtk "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10874609:29
nxvlso i think it MUST be aplied09:29
nxvland some other changes concerning these bug09:30
nxvllike a .desktop patch09:30
persiahuats: Do you have any suggestions for nxvl on this merge (it being an update for your change)?09:31
persianxvl: OK.  You've broken it down.  Do any of the upstream or Debian changes (in the changelogs) appear to address any of the issues?09:32
huatslet me see what has been said before :-)09:32
nxvlpersia: so, what you are trying to say is that i need to look on the upstream and debian changelog to see if there is a solution for these problems?09:33
nxvlpersia: or in debian.debdiff?09:34
persianxvl: More to see if there is an upstream or Debian change that would resolve any of the issues resolved by Ubuntu.  You can look either in the changelog or the debdiff (the debdiff is more reliable, but harder to read)09:34
huatspersia and nxvl  I am listening :-)09:35
persianxvl: huats made the the changes from that bug report, and may be able to share information about previous coordination with upstream and Debian.09:36
nxvlhuats: ok, what i'm trying to do is to merge efax-gtk-3.0.15-1ubuntu109:37
huatsnxvl: ok09:37
nxvlhuats: it's my first time doing the merge job, so i'm kind of lost09:37
nxvlhuats: i have undestand the changes u have been made09:37
huatsnxvl: ok so may be we can both learn since I never did a merge too :-)09:38
nxvlhuats: so now i need to look if either upstream or debian have patch your changes to, didn't i09:38
nxvlthats what i need to do09:38
huatsnxvl: I think that is the good way to do indeed09:39
nxvli need to see if the changes have been made in the new release or if i need to do them once again09:39
persiahuats: when you made the changes before, did you send a bug report or patch to Debian or to upstream?09:39
nxvlso what persia is asking for is to tell me/us about the coordinations with upstream/debian for these changes09:40
huatsso you need to have a look in the upstream changelog and the debian changelog to see if anything corrects the issue that my previous patch corrects09:40
nxvlhuats: yup09:40
huatsregarding the changes upstream and debian, I have to admit that I had not done it yet.... I was planning to do it after the gutsy realease...09:42
huatsand there you are...09:42
persiahuats: No worries.  When there is a bug filed, it makes merging easy, as one can check the external bugtracker to see if the patch was applied.  On the other hand, this is a better example for learning.09:43
nxvlit seems debian haven't patch it, according to the changelog09:45
nxvlit olny says "  * Update debian/menu according to the new menu policy.09:45
huatsso there is a part of my changes that has been done09:46
nxvlhuats: did you made any changes to debian/menu?09:46
huatsnxvl: yep09:46
nxvlthe debian/menu is the conflict package09:47
huatsI quote the ubuntu changelog "* Modify debian/menu in line with new menu hierarchy"09:47
nxvlok, the problem here is09:47
nxvlin debian it has: Applications/Network and in ubuntu Applications/Network/File Transfer09:48
nxvlso i think i need to keep the ubuntu one09:49
nxvldoesn't i?09:49
huatsit is the doc for the menu spec09:50
huatsso indeed I think the ubuntu one is the right noe09:50
huatsand you can send that to debian as well...09:50
persiaSpecifically, it says for 'Network' "This is a three-level section, do not put entries directly here."09:51
huatspersia: so I was right ?09:52
nxvlpersia: so i need to put it in File Transfer09:52
persiahuats: nxvl: Yes (to both questions)09:52
nxvlediting the changelog09:53
persianxvl: Remember: you want to add to the changelog, not edit it.09:53
norsettogoooooooooooooooooooood morning09:55
nxvlpersia: i'm editing it, since the las entry is from Merge-o-Matic and it explicit says to edit it09:55
nxvlnorsetto: good morning, im almost done with efax-gtk09:56
huatsnorsetto: morning  my favorite italian guy09:56
persianxvl: Ah.  That's safe then.09:56
norsettohey nxvl, how is it with the merging?09:56
dholbachheya norsetto, hey lam09:56
dholbachlamego :)09:56
norsettohiya dholbach09:56
Lamegodholbach, :)09:56
nxvlnorsetto: im, now building09:57
huatsdo we have to merge file-roller ? in merge.ubuntu.com it is version 2.20.0-1 and I know that we have 2.20.1 in gutsy-proposed....09:57
nxvlnorsetto: i'm done with tha changes, persia help me A LOT09:57
* nxvl hugs persia 09:57
norsettonxvl: good, was it difficult?09:57
persiahuats: We will likely want to do so.  MoM doesn't track -proposed, but the new file-roller should soon go to gutsy, and it will show up on MoM then.09:58
persianxvl: While it's building, could you post the debdiff for huats and I to review?09:59
Lamegosomeone to look at bug 155314 for universe sponsorhsip ?09:59
ubotuLaunchpad bug 155314 in twinkle "Unable to authenticate with SIP server" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15531409:59
nxvlnorsetto: the changes where on my face, but i didn't see them cause i't was a lot of info coming to my head (the merging process + th changes)09:59
nxvlpersia: what debdiff?09:59
persianxvl debdiff between current Debian and target Ubuntu (the one you're building)09:59
norsettonxlv: well, its your first one, you will see thats gonna be easier and easier for the next09:59
huatspersia: so we'll merge it once -proposed appears right ?10:00
persiaLamego: Nothing to do right now: we're still waiting for the toolchain to settle for hardy uploads.  Apologies for the delay.10:00
nxvlpersia: ok10:00
persiahuats: Once hardy is open for general uploads.10:00
norsettopersia, huats, nxvl: did you guys decide something about the menu entry?10:00
persianorsetto: huats quoted Debian policy showing the Debian is buggy :)  nxvl is planning on filing a bug.10:01
norsettopersia: devil huats :-)10:01
nxvli will generate the .dsc file and the upload the debdiff10:01
Lamegopersia, it's for gutsy-proposed10:01
huatsnorsetto: you showed me the doccumentation, it is your fault10:01
persiaLamego: Ah.  Sorry.  That's not clear from the report.  I'd suggest adding [SRU] to the bug title, and subscribing motu-uvf for approval (as usually we need the fix in the development release prior to posting to -proposed).10:02
huatsnorsetto: and I am quite sure you said "the holly reference" or something like that...10:02
Lamegopersia, i have followed the SponsorShi process described on the Wiki :)10:03
norsettohuats: do we have a new lintian in gutsy? I remember seeing something, but that perhaps was linda10:03
Lamegonone of your recommendations are described there :)10:03
persiaLamego: You followed it perfectly.  Unfortunately, we're in a strange sort of post-release freeze right now, so it's a little complicated (see #ubuntu-motu /topic).10:03
Lamegoand why do you need it fixed on development, if develpment is not yet available :) ?10:03
norsettohuats: because that kind of things should be catched by lintian10:04
persiaIt's the policy.  It doesn't actually work for about 4 weeks every year, but we've not revised it sensibly.  Apologies for the confusion.10:04
huatsnorsetto: I think there is a new lintian10:04
Lamegoargh, why do you keeping creating freezes an interim processes, despite of the well established documentation ?10:04
huatsI can remember that some stuff were ok with the one on feisty and ko with the gutsy one....10:04
norsettohuats: well, I don't know if it covers the menu change still, gotta check the changelog10:05
Lamegopersia, what is the reasoning for this post-release freeze ?10:06
persiaLamego: The documentation is at fault.  The ~2 week wait for archive open whilst the toolchain settles is old: we just keep forgetting to write it down.  I believe this is the first time we have a functioning freeze exception process for post-release: in the past it's been even worse.10:06
nxvlpersia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/efax-gtk/+bug/15595010:07
ubotuLaunchpad bug 155950 in efax-gtk "Please merge efax-gtk (3.0.15-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]10:07
persiaLamego: The toolchain is bootstrapping (compilers, linkers, interpreters, etc.).  Once that becomes stable (should be soon), everything else gets pumped in and built.  If this freeze wasn't here, lots of things would FTBFS for no good reason.10:07
nxvlpersia: posted the debdiff10:07
nxvlnorsetto: i posted the debdiff, can u check it please10:07
persiahuats: Do you see anything missing there?10:07
huatsI have a look10:08
norsettohuats: no, it will not be cactched by our lintian, its even before policy change10:08
Lamegopersia, you are talking about development, I am talking about current, the ~2 week after the release is the peridod on which you are more likely to get bugs reported by "non-development" users10:08
nxvllintian says there are no commmon mistakes on mi dsc \o/10:08
persiaLamego: Yep.  That's why I'm so happy we have the motu-uvf workaround for this release.  The last couple were less pleasant, and there were no universe updates for a bit.10:09
* nxvl wonders where have he left the cigarretes :S10:09
Lamegouff, doesn't uvf stand for upstream version freeze ?10:09
Lamegowhy do I need an uvf team to review a 4 lines patch :) ?10:10
norsettonxvl, huats: ok, lets wait what huats will say10:10
persiaLamego: Yes, UVF stands for Upstream Version Freeze.  The reason this team is handling it is that we didn't have time to elect a new team prior to the implementation of the new process, and the members of that team volunteered to help with post-release processing.10:11
Lamegook, I will wait for 2 weeks10:11
Lamegoif someone looks at it, and I personally don't forget it also :P10:11
persiaLamego: OK.  If it's important, you could subscribe the team, and they'll probably hit it in a few days.10:11
Lamegook, I will try10:12
huatspersia norsetto  nxvl  as far as I see it is great10:13
norsettohuats: think again ......10:13
persianxvl: huats: A few things about this candidate:10:13
norsettohuats, nxvl: I see few things which need to be corrected10:13
persia1)  The Debian maintainer uses a different patch system than the Ubuntu variation.  We should extract the dpatch, and use the Debian maintainer's patch system.10:14
huatsI'll have second look10:14
persia2)  The debdiff is full of config{sub,guess}.  We should consider moving the refresh from the clean rule to the configure rule10:14
persia3) The latest changelog entry doesn't specify all the changes retained / dropped clearly10:15
huatsso the 3) I didn't know that we were allow do this kind of stuff :-)10:17
huatssorry I meant the 2)10:17
norsettohuats: for 2), for sure you need to clean manually your debdiff, but as persia said, its the fault of the DD package, not yours10:18
huatsregarding the 3) it is the first merge I see, but indeed it appears important to rewrite the changes done ....10:18
persiahuats: There are no limits to what we are allowed.  The more we vary from Debian, the more we take direct responsibility for the results.  As there are around 15,000 packages, we make efforts to match Debian policy as closely as possible to reduce this responsibility for each packge.10:18
nxvllet's go step by step, starting with 1)10:19
norsettohuats, persia, nxvl: please consider as well that this is for hardy, not gutsy (check the distribution in changelog)10:19
nxvlpersia: where have yoo see it10:19
huatsnorsetto: I remember that you asked me to clean by hand every debdiff for flightgear10:20
norsettohuats: yes, when you ask for a sponsor your debdiff _MUST_ only contains the relevant changes, no cruft added10:20
huatsto remove the config{sub, guess}10:20
nxvlnorsetto: fixed10:20
huatsnxvl: you have clean by hand you debdiff ?10:21
persianxvl: The quick and easy way to check is to do `lsdiff -z foo.diff.gz`  When there are entries in debian/patches, keep them there.  When there are not, if there are changes outside debian/ in diff.gz, make changes outside debian.  When debian/patches is empty and there are no changes outside debian/ in diff.gz, you may select a patch system.10:21
nxvlhuats: am working on it10:21
huatsit is useless to do that before you have finished to fix everything else10:21
huatsit is the last thing to to10:21
huatsto do10:22
huatssince it'll be regenerated10:22
nxvlyour right10:22
huatsnxvl: start with the 1) point as persia points out10:23
norsettohuats: didn't I ask you to forward this to Debian? I usually did10:23
huatsI am not sure that you were the one who uploads it...10:24
huatsmay be10:24
huatsand as I said , I had planned to forward a  few fixes to debian after gutsy .... sorry....10:24
nxvlpersia: u mean efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.diff.gz?10:24
persianxvl: Yes.  In that case "foo" was to be replaced by "efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1"10:25
nxvlso, i see many files, an there is some in debian/patches10:25
persiaEr..  Rather "efax-gtk_3.0.15-1", as we want to determine how the Debian maintainer is managing patches.10:25
nxvlso, there are some files but there is no debian/patches10:26
persianxvl: Files outside debian/ ?10:27
nxvlpersia: yes 7 of them10:27
persiaOK.  That means that the Debian maintainer does not use separated patches.  I don't think this is best practice for package maintenance, but some people do.  In the hopes that we can eventually merge everything back so we're not responsible for efax-gtk, we'll need to extract the dpatch, and apply it directly.10:28
norsettopersia: as you know, there we disagree, especially since we should teach good practices to new packagers, not just cope with DD bad practices10:29
nxvlthat means patch by hand and remove the patches?10:30
persianxvl: Yes.10:30
norsettopersia, nxvl, huats: I do think we should keep the patch system10:30
persianorsetto: Yes.  We disagree on this.10:30
nxvlnow we have come to disagreements10:30
nxvllets get to a middle point10:31
persiaThe argument in favor of keeping the patch system is that it makes it lots easier to add / remove patches when needed.10:31
norsettopersia: we disagree strongly, I will never excuse DD bad practices10:31
persiaThe argument against keeping the patch system is that it makes it impossible to merge back to Debian.10:31
norsettopersia: which is weak, because these changes should be merged back into debian10:32
persianorsetto: My largest objection is that a package should never, ever use two different patch systems simultaneously.  If we are to use a patch system, we should extract all the patches in the diff.gz, and place them in dpatches.  Having patches in both is likely to cause annoyance.10:32
norsettopersia: agreed, but in this case the package do NOT use a patch system10:32
norsettopersia: this is the difference, I do not consider inline as a patch system, its just crap10:33
nxvlcan we take diff.gz and separate patches?10:33
persianorsetto: If we follow the Debian maintainer's practice, a patch to merge the changes back becomes available on packages.qa.debian.org.  If we install a second patch system (with entirely unpredictable results), the Debian maintainer will sensibly refuse to accept a clearly broken patch.10:33
norsettopersia: again we disagree, we should not enforce our choice, in this case we simply give back the .desktop file10:34
persianxvl: Yes.  If you do so, you end up with a very nice package, that both norsetto and I would endorse.  On the other hand, it is a lot of work, and you will need to accept responsibility for keeping it up to date.10:34
persianorsetto: Huh?  If we're not enforcing our choice, why not follow heirs?10:34
nxvlpersia: ok, so lets continue making a decision, tu much responsability for a new packager10:34
norsettopersia: we do use it for our revision, because thats the right thing to do10:35
norsettopersia: I don't see the need, and 99% is worng, to pass them our debdiff10:35
norsettopersia: thats the problem, you see it as our duty to enfore our choice, which I don't, we do our bit the correct way, and ask them to merge the changes back their way10:36
nxvlim agree with norsetto, it's better to do it the right way and ask DD to make it too10:37
norsettonxvl: I think this is the only point were persia and I will keep disagreeing for the centuries to come :-)10:38
nxvlso, lets forget about 1) and continue with 2)10:38
huatsnxvl: I think thet 1) is the main pb here...10:39
nxvlhuats: but, 1) is a debian problem10:40
nxvlhuats: the problem in 1) is that the DD made it the wrong way10:40
nxvlnorsetto: i'm i right?10:40
nxvl4:40 on the morning i need to get some sleep10:41
nxvli have class at 11 am, and the ubuntu Open Week speaches start at 10 am10:41
persianxvl: There are arguments both ways about it.  Norsetto and I agree that the method used by the DD isn't preferable, but it's not really correct to call it "wrong".10:42
nxvlpersia: ok, sorry about that10:42
nxvlmmm norsetto hase gone10:42
norsettocrappy rt2x00 module10:43
nxvlpersia, norsetto: i really need to sleep i need to wake up un 4 hours, can u get into a decicion and let me know it by LP or e-mail so i can continue working these tomorrow?10:43
persianorsetto: Anecdotally, I've had quite a few Debian maintainers merge my debdiffs.  Also, I argue that two patch systems is far worse than any chosen method (including sed scripts called from debian/rules)10:44
nxvls/these/on these/10:44
norsettopersia: agreed, totally agreed, were we disagree is that the lack of a patch system IS a patch system10:44
persianxvl: We're both officially correct, and other sponsors may disagree with either of us (we're both fairly strict about things).10:44
persianorsetto: What?  diff.gz, no?  All the patches can be extracted with filterdiff.  It's fairly annoying, and stores very little meta-data, but the upstream codebase is still pristine.10:45
nxvlpersia: i know that, BUT what sould i do? do it your way or norsetto's way?10:45
persianxvl: You should do it your way.  Either of our ways is likely acceptable.10:45
norsettopersia: I call a cat a cat10:46
persianorsetto: Yep.  Me too.  But I don't complain when people talk about felines.10:46
norsettopersia: and you know what is the policy about the .diff.gz, eh?10:46
nxvli will contact the debian maintainer and discuss with him about that, i will try to change everything to the right way10:46
persianorsetto: It must contain all differences from upstream.  It should not contain changes outside debian/.10:46
persianxvl: That's a perfect goal.  That sort of coordination results in the best quality packages for both Debian and Ubuntu.10:47
nxvlok, so i will send an e-mail right now10:47
persianxvl: Don't forget to also file the bug about the menu file.10:48
nxvlnorsetto: despide on 1) what more are you disagree with? i mean on what sould i keep working10:48
nxvlpersia: yes, i will, tomorrow10:48
norsettonxvl: I didn't see anything else, was quite a good job :-)10:49
nxvlnorsetto: thanks10:50
huatsnxvl: you did a great work...10:50
norsettoalso huats was a good help ;-)10:51
norsettoand thansk to persia for his good job too !10:51
nxvlnorsetto: so, in your point of view, and dispide the disagreement, it is ready for being uploaded (we will not do that until i came to a decicion with the DD, but just to know how do i did it)10:51
huatsnxvl: and with norsetto and persia you had 2 MOTU who are really nice with new contributors...10:51
nxvlhuats: thnx10:51
* norsetto hugs everybody10:51
* huats too10:51
* nxvl hugs everyone too10:52
nxvlgrupal hug!!!10:52
nxvly really love FS10:52
persianxvl: There are a couple small points: #2 means you either need to run filterdiff, or move the config.{sub,guess} calls in debian/rules.  #3 is just note taking, and be sure to target hardy for the upload.10:52
huatspersia:  nxvl  3) was to report the changes you merge in the changelog10:53
huatsthe hardy target was supposed to be 4)10:54
nxvlthe changes I made10:54
nxvlwas only to edit the debian/menu10:55
persianxvl: You'll want to record all the changes you made to the Debian package, which includes all the other changes you inherited from huats.10:55
nxvland point 2) i don't find it on debdiff10:55
nxvlpersia: ok, i undestand, so i will need to say "merge changes for revision #"?10:56
persianxvl: You'll want to list the specific changes, so that the next person who is working on the package can see all the Ubuntu changes without going through the entire changelog.10:57
persianxvl: I see config.guess starting from the first line of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10126369/efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.debdiff10:57
nxvlpersia: config.sub should be removed too?10:58
persianxvl: Yes.  Personally, I like to remove them by moving the cp call to the configure: rule, but filterdiff satisfies most sponsor's requirements.10:59
nxvlpersia: remove line 61 and 64 from debian/rules ?11:00
persianxvl: I'm not actually following along here :)  Could you pastebin debian/rules for me to answer that?11:00
nxvlpersia: http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/stuff/rules11:03
persianxvl: No.  We need those to build.  I tend to move it up in the rules file (to around line 38), but filterdiff is also acceptable.11:04
persia(umm... "it" refers the the both stanzas between lines 60 and 65 inclusive)11:04
huatsjust an opinion on bug 15155411:07
ubotuLaunchpad bug 151554 in webkit "libwebkitgtk0d" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15155411:07
huatsis there something top do ? or will it be done automatically with the sync from debian ?11:08
nxvlpersia: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10126656/efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.debdiff11:08
nxvlpersia: liek that?11:08
persiahuats: That should be autosync'd from Debian shortly after the archive opens.  There may be a need to merge changes from the old libwebkitgdk package (that needs investigation).  I'd recommend watching the package sync when it starts, and processing a merge if you think it's required.11:09
huatspersia: ok11:09
nxvlpersia: sorry, dont open it, im kind of sleep11:09
nxvlpersia: its the same debdiff11:09
huatsthat was my opinion too... happy to see it is your too11:09
huatsdo we know when the sync will be ?11:10
persiahuats: Current best guesses are available from the Hardy Release Schedule on the wiki, although this schedule is subject to change based on UDS.11:10
nxvlpersia: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10126685/efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.debdiff11:10
huatspersia: ok11:11
persiaOK.  Changelog needs to include the specific changes, not just reference a previous version.11:11
nxvlpersia: so, u are saying to rewrite them?11:11
nxvlpersia: but there are in the chagelog11:11
persiaI still see "diff -u efax-gtk-3.0.15/config.guess efax-gtk-3.0.15/config.guess" at the top.  I'm not sure why.11:12
persiaYou need to repeat them.  You may summarise.11:12
nxvlme niether11:12
nxvlpersia: o11:12
persia("them" refers to changelog entries)11:12
nxvlpersia: but, it's in there, but with no changes11:12
nxvlpersia: yes, i know11:12
nxvlok, removed lines 1 and 211:13
persianxvl: Even so.11:13
nxvltomorow i will write to DD, fill the bug and correct changelog11:13
persiaI'm still not happy about dpatch, but 1) I'm not the only sponsor around, and 2) you're planning to contact the DD11:13
nxvlnow i need to sleep11:13
persiaOther than that, it looks fine.11:14
nxvlpersia: yes, that part will be fixed after contacting the DD11:14
nxvlpersia: thnx11:14
nxvlpersia: *HUGS*11:14
persiagood night nxvl11:14
nxvlhuats: *HUGS*11:14
nxvlnorsetto: *HUGS*11:14
* dholbach hugs y'all :)11:14
nxvlpersia: heh, it will be good morning since its 5 o clock and the sun is rising11:15
norsettohuats: Bug 151554 is just a sync (note the package version). You can easily check the changelog too (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkit/)11:15
ubotuLaunchpad bug 151554 in webkit "libwebkitgtk0d" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15155411:15
persianorsetto: Does it even need ubuntu-archive attention?  I think it will be automatic.11:16
norsettopersia: yes, it should be auto-synced11:16
* norsetto hugs dholbach11:20
* dholbach hugs norsetto back :)11:20
* norsetto finds dholbach huggable, must be all that hair11:20
dholbach. o O { hair? }11:21
norsettodholbach: everything is relative, everybody is hairy wrt me ;-)11:22
ion_O . o { hair? } would be valid Ruby code.11:22
dholbachion_: that's not what I aimed for ;-)11:22
persiaion_: Why not '. o O { hair? }' ?11:22
ion_persia: ‘. o’ is a syntax error.11:23
persia(calling a method of the implicit object with an argument which is an inherited function with an argument that takes a single block as an argument)11:23
* norsetto head is spinning11:23
persiaAh.  Right.  Space.  Grr...11:23
persia.o O { hair? }11:23
ion_persia: Well, ‘.o’ is a syntax error. :-)11:23
dholbachnorsetto: don't worry - mine too :)11:24
* dholbach -> lunch11:25
persiaion_: I was sure that could be used against the implicit object, but I can't duplicate now.  perhaps an exercise for tomorrow :)11:25
ion_persia: plain ‘o’ sends :o to ‘self’.11:25
* norsetto feeds the cats11:25
persiaion_: Right.  I was thinking something like:11:26
persiadef foo11:26
persiasort is called on "Hello" (which doesn't really do anything).11:26
ion_Sorry, it isn’t. :-)11:27
ion_That’s equivalent to def foo; "Hello"; self.sort; end11:27
* persia imagines there is probably a way to override the meaning of . within the conext of a block, but is unwilling to try at this time11:27
ion_You can any_object.instance_eval &block11:28
ion_That way the block sees ‘self’ as the any_object.11:28
huatshuats -> lunch11:34
=== huats is now known as huats_
=== ivoks is now known as ivoks_zzz
=== rexbron_ is now known as rexbron
siretartdholbach: thank you very much for your last email to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c11:50
* norsetto hugs siretar11:56
norsettoguys be aware, I'm in a hug mood, stay clear if you don want to be hugged11:57
proppynorsetto: howdy ?12:00
norsettoproppy: can you come closer?12:01
proppynorsetto: yep np my times is yours12:01
* norsetto hugs proppy!12:01
norsettoproppy: so, how is it going with viewvc12:02
proppynorsetto: let me check in which state is it12:02
proppynorsetto: btw, did you log on root@lp152438.aminche.com ?12:02
proppynorsetto: or was is useless ?12:02
norsettoproppy: should I log on there?12:03
proppyIf you want to check/debug/code on this bug, you can12:03
proppyI added your ssh keys12:04
proppybut you don't really have to :)12:05
proppynorsetto: the last change I've done is to fix viewvc-template script, not to add template_dir option if it's already here12:09
proppynorsetto: changeset here http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/843c8bf2584112:09
proppynorsetto: list of changes here http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/12:09
proppynorsetto: so next is to put viewvc-template in the debian directory, call it from postin, and generate a debdiff ?12:10
* siretart hugs norsetto back12:13
* proppy hugs norsetto back12:14
norsettoproppy: sorry, I had a little issue here, let me check12:18
norsettoproppy: you keep shooting changelogs at me :-)12:19
norsettoproppy: didn't we agree last time that you were testing the script with a feisty->gutsy upgrade and then sending it to the DD?12:20
proppynorsetto: I should have put this somewhere not to forget about it :)12:22
norsettoproppy: whats the pass for root@lp152438.aminche.com?12:23
proppynorsetto: wait it is on http://lp152438.aminche.com/ wiki I've no excuse :)12:23
proppynorsetto: ssh root@lp152438.aminche.com -p 162212:23
proppynorsetto: there is not pass, you're private keys should work12:23
norsettoproppy: its empty ....12:25
proppynorsetto: what is empty ?12:25
proppynorsetto: go in /home/www12:25
norsettoproppy: looks good12:29
* norsetto wonders what reaction the DD will have at this12:29
proppynorsetto: I was thinking about adding the viewvc-template in the package12:29
proppynorsetto: and ship a debdiff to the DD12:30
norsettoproppy: the viewvc-template is the script which is called by the postinst?12:30
proppynorsetto: you mean what reaction the DD will have to the script or to lp152438.aminche.com ?12:30
proppynorsetto: which is to be called by the postinst12:30
norsettoproppy: to your work12:31
proppynorsetto: but I just noticed that the package do install viewvc-config to /usr/lib12:31
proppynorsetto: and then call it from post.inst12:31
norsettoproppy: yes, then you must add it in the package12:31
proppynorsetto: I don't feel confortable to install viewvc-template to /usr/lib12:31
norsettoproppy: the idea was to 1) file the dug about the upograde failing in Debian 2) attach the solution (adding the # and template_dir) 3) propose your script as a possible solution to 2)12:32
norsettoproppy: before going further, it might well be a waste of time continuing12:33
norsettoproppy: just test your script in the fesity-gutsy upgrade and see if it solves the issue12:33
proppynorsetto: what about reproducing the bug in debian ?12:33
norsettoproppy: actually, the best would be to have a sid chroot, install viewvcs and then upgrade to viewvc12:34
norsettoproppy: I'm going for lunch now, need some food to shred12:35
proppynorsetto: me too12:35
proppynorsetto: installing the debian chroot :)12:35
* norsetto is going to kill some cheese and a sausage too12:35
norsettoproppy: see u later then, (A+)12:36
proppynorsetto: A_12:36
=== norsetto is now known as norsetto_limbo
fernandomoin all12:45
StevenKnorsetto_limbo: You can't kill cheese.12:46
markvandenborreplease have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/5564612:48
ubotuLaunchpad bug 55646 in xorg "video playback problem on external monitor" [Undecided,Confirmed]12:48
markvandenborreI don't have the necessary hardware anymore to do anything about this12:48
markvandenborreand I'm not sure if this is still relevant with recent advances in X12:48
markvandenborreI want to act responsibly on the bugs I report12:49
markvandenborreis there anything I can do about this?12:49
=== Mez|Away is now known as Mez
=== Mez is now known as Mez|Away
markvandenborresame thing for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer/+bug/4369912:54
ubotuLaunchpad bug 43699 in gstreamer "totem-gstreamer dvd://01 refuses to play" [Medium,New]12:54
=== Mez|Away is now known as Mez
markvandenborrerelevant hardware and software not available anymore12:54
markvandenborrehi EtienneG !12:54
EtienneGmarkvandenborre, my most best craziest MOTU pal !12:56
EtienneGwhat are you up to these days ?12:57
=== rexbron__ is now known as rexbron
=== huats_ is now known as huats
=== zul_ is now known as zul
ScottKGood morning all.13:22
ScottKLooks like you all had "fun" whilst I was sleeping.13:22
huatsScottK: morning13:24
ScottKHello huats.13:24
StevenKScottK: ... Indeed.13:24
cosmodadhi all -- I've been doing quite some Debian packaging in the past and would like to build a Deb package for Ubuntu.13:27
cosmodadQuestion: How do you usually start off? Use a Debian src-rep, get the source and do the port?13:27
cosmodadIf this is the wrong channel to ask this question (#ubuntu-dev seemed unappropriate), please let me know with a proper referal.13:28
proppyhello ScottK13:28
ScottKhello proppy13:29
ScottKcosmodad: Packages that are already in Debian get automatically synced.13:29
persiacosmodad: This is exactly the right place.  If the package is already in Ubuntu, you'd do better starting off with the Ubuntu source repositories.  If a package is already in Debian, wait a few weeks.  If the package is somewhere else, the procedure you describe sounds appropriate.13:30
ScottKMost of what we do here is package stuff that isn't in Debian yet (and often then push it into Debian) or deal with changes needed for differences between Ubuntu and Debian.13:30
cosmodadScottK: precisely, I'd like to re-package uswsusp since Gutsy's version doesn't include s2ram.13:30
* persia points at a few hundred Ubuntu local packages13:30
ScottKcosmodad: Does the version in Debian?13:30
cosmodadScottK: yes.13:30
persiacosmodad: That was pulled intentionally.  Apparently it doesn't make sense with the Ubuntu kernel.  Have you been having success with it on an Ubuntu system?13:31
cosmodadpersia: I used s2ram successfully on my machine using Feisty, and so did a lot of other people.13:32
persiacosmodad: from what I can see, it was pulled for Gutsy on August 20th.  I'm not certain of the reason.13:33
cosmodadpersia: the changelog isn't very elaborate on this ("Don't build s2ram. It's not sensible on Ubuntu."), but numerous people have reported it worked fine, so I wanted to give it a try.13:34
cosmodadpersia: it might possibly be a political reason to support a different suspending scheme, but this is the only one that works for me.13:34
persiacosmodad: Probably the easiest way is to pull the uswsusp source from Ubuntu and unroll the last change (patches are available from patches.ubuntu.com if reverting is not obvious).13:35
cosmodadpersia: I'd prefer another upgrade to the latest version. Would you consider it easier/quicker to do the patch reversal and upgrade afterwards instead of re-Ubuntunizing the Debian package?13:36
cosmodadwith the latter being at the up-to-date version already.13:36
cosmodadthat is, the Sid package.13:36
=== norsetto_limbo is now known as norsetto
norsettomorning ScottK13:37
ScottKHeya norsetto.13:37
persiaActually, yes.  re-Ubuntuizing the Debian package leaves you with no automated reversal.  reverting the last upload (patch -r) quickly gives you an Ubuntuised version with s2ram, from which you can alter the Debian revision.13:37
persiacosmodad: If you haven't already, I'd suggest you look at some of the Merging pages on wiki.ubuntu.com, which contain a couple of different methods for processing a merge (in this case, between the reverted Ubuntu package and the new Debian package)13:38
markvandenborreplease have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/5564613:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 55646 in xorg "video playback problem on external monitor" [Undecided,Confirmed]13:39
markvandenborreI don't have the necessary hardware anymore to do anything about this13:39
markvandenborreand I'm not sure if this is still relevant with recent advances in X13:39
markvandenborreI want to act responsibly on the bugs I report13:39
markvandenborreis there anything I can do about this?13:39
cosmodadpersia: that's good to know. One final thing: Is there a place I can get detailled information on why this binary (s2ram) was pulled out of the Gutsy package?13:40
cosmodadpersia: a bug has been reported, but no rationale been giving (yet).13:40
markvandenborreI'm coming here since xvattr is in universe, but please point me to better places if there are any13:40
persiacosmodad: Aside from the changelog, there may be commentary in debian/README or debian/README-source.  If that is insufficient, you could try sending mail to the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list.13:41
proppyIs the 'package hint' in bash when 'command not found' is gone with gutsy ?13:42
cosmodadpersia: alright. Thanks for the starter13:42
persiaproppy: it's still available.  You have to install the enabling package (which name I forget).13:42
persiacosmodad: Good luck with the testing.  If you get it working, and it works better for your hardware than the alternatives, please open a bug with details as to why it should be restored.13:43
=== con_ is now known as kcotn
norsettowas it command-not-found?13:44
cosmodadpersia: I will consider. Elaborate testing with alternatives (apart from "uswsusp works almost out of the box, the alternatives don't"), however, will take a lot (too much?) of time.13:45
gnomefreakuniverse packages need to follow SRU prcess correct?13:46
gnomefreak!info command-not-found13:46
* norsetto hates ubotu with all his guts13:46
ubotuI am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots13:46
ubotucommand-not-found: Suggest installation of packages in interactive bash sessions. In component main, is standard. Version 0.2.8ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 6 kB, installed size 96 kB13:46
ScottKgnomefreak: Yes.  That with the added provision that before the Hardy repos open you need a motu-uvf ack.13:46
persiacosmodad: If suspend doesn't work on your hardware with default gutsy, and does work with your hacked package (a report from 0.6~cvs20070618-1ubuntu1 would be even more compelling) that indicates that we've a hardware support issue, which should be raised for deeper discussion and review.  A bug is the best place for such discussion.13:46
cosmodadpersia: I see.13:47
persiagnomefreak: scroll down on the SRU page: there are a couple variations in process for universe.13:47
gnomefreakScottK: ok ty ill relay it to sponser13:47
norsetto!info command-not-found | proppy13:47
ubotuproppy: command-not-found: Suggest installation of packages in interactive bash sessions. In component main, is standard. Version 0.2.8ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 6 kB, installed size 96 kB13:47
cosmodadpersia: you don't possibly know what's the default hibernation/suspension scheme in Gutsy? (the one that takes please when I use the GUI to hibernate/suspend)13:48
persiacosmodad: Actually, I know nothing about hibernation at all.  My apologies.13:48
cosmodadpersia: that's alright. I'll figure it out myself.13:48
=== ivoks_zzz is now known as ivoks
cosmodadI just need to determine whether the default scheme is still in action on my machine since I've tried quite a few things through the years with ubuntu.13:49
proppypersia: norsetto: thanks13:50
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
proppydpkg-reconfigure did the trick13:51
* dholbach hugs siretart13:51
* proppy hugs dholbach13:52
* dholbach hugs proppy too13:52
* Hobbsee checks the ML/13:55
Hobbseewell, the execution sucked, but it looks like i got my point more or less across.13:55
ScottKGood morning Hobbsee.13:55
Hobbseehiya ScottK13:55
persiaHobbsee: It's just a matter of practice :)13:55
Hobbseepersia: sure.  i've had lots fo that :)13:56
ScottKpersia: Don't put Hobbsee in mind of practicing executions.13:56
Hobbseejust not usually via ML.13:56
HobbseeScottK: like you havent done so before...13:56
=== stdin_ is now known as stdin
HobbseeScottK: :)13:57
huatspersia: I like your email on the mentoring process14:00
proppynorsetto: I sid chroot seems not be the best idea14:01
persiahuats: Thanks.14:01
norsettoproppy: why?14:01
proppynorsetto: as viewvc is already updated and aliases to viewcvs in sid14:01
proppynorsetto: I just figure that when trying14:01
proppynorsetto: I should do etch -> unstable14:02
proppynorsetto: or testing -> unstable instead14:02
norsettoproppy: hmmm, can you install the last version of viewcvs then?14:02
norsettoproppy: and do un apt-get upgrade after14:02
proppynorsetto: viewcvs in sid *is* viewvc14:03
proppynorsetto: I have to get my hand on the previous previous of viewcvs14:03
norsettoproppy: now yes, but there is an old version still available14:04
proppynorsetto: and testing seems to have one14:04
proppynorsetto: you mean sid chroot with an old version of the deb ?14:04
norsettoproppy: yes, the one before the renaming14:04
norsettoproppy: but thats a bad idea perhaps, because it was before all these changes and is really not applicable anymore to debian14:05
norsettoproppy: yes, if you could try etch-unstable this should be14:05
proppynorsetto: I'm reading the Debian BTS again14:06
proppynorsetto: Now that I've worked a bit on the bug14:06
proppynorsetto: I'm pretty sure I'll understand it better14:06
norsettoproppy: you can check out which version is available where with "rmadison viewcvs"14:08
norsettoproppy: you can also use it with ubuntu with the option "-u ubuntu"14:08
proppynorsetto: how do I install a specific version then ?14:10
norsettoproppy: either you download it manually, or if you have the repo in sources.list you force the version with apt-get14:11
qw354всем привет14:13
qw354мм.. а почему тихо так14:13
zulqw354: we speak english here14:13
huatsis there a step by step for merges ?14:17
huatsor can anydody points out the big lines ? I've never done one.... and  I'd like too14:17
norsettozul: well, if you say so14:18
norsettohuats: pick up a merge and we will go through it together14:18
huatsnorsetto: ok14:18
huatsnorsetto: let's try to go for the gallery one14:19
huatsif it is ok14:20
norsettohuats: you choose ... choose wisely though ;-)14:20
kcotnnorsetto: i am intersted for  #155950 bug but i dont know what to do ??14:20
norsettokcotn: if that is the one I sponsors, there is already somebody working on it14:21
huatskcotn: I think it is too late14:21
kcotnnorsetto: yes is this one14:21
=== ogra__ is now known as ogra
huatsnorsetto: did I pick one with no pb at all ?14:22
norsettokcotn: sorry about that, anyhow, you better check out the link I gave on my email first, to get an idea of what merges are and how to deal with them14:22
norsettohuats: don't worry, we will find a problem :-)14:22
huatsnorsetto: but may be there is still something do with gallery ?14:23
norsettohuats: ok, so, what do you want to do, manual, mom or dad?14:23
huatsnorsetto: I have absolutly no opinion14:23
bluekujaamachu, do you wanna take care of Bug #156243?14:23
huatsas being the tour guide, you can choose...14:23
ubotuLaunchpad bug 156243 in qtdmm "Merge qtdmm 0.8.10-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15624314:23
kcotnnorsetto: sure, i am reading these things now :)14:24
norsettohuats: ok, lets do mom now, shall we?14:24
amachubluekuja: hi14:24
bluekujaamachu, great, assign it yourself14:24
huatsnorsetto: go ahead14:24
norsettohuats: well, you know what a merge is?14:25
huatsI think14:25
amachubluekuja: i just followed the doc14:25
norsettohuats: care to share?14:25
amachuand have few observations to make14:25
huatssome patches/modifications has been done to a version, and an other upstream/debian appears that do not includes necesseraly these modifications, so it is needed to merge them14:26
bluekujaamachu, I guess you should start working on it, and ask me any question14:27
norsettohuats: ok, so, what do you think is the first thing to do, once grab-merge got all the needed stuff?14:27
bluekujaamachu, here or directly into the bug, so I can track your progres14:27
huatsnorsetto: in fact that was my first question : about grab-merge14:27
huatsI've read to use it in a scratch-directory14:28
huatsbut it is not in my pbuilder env... just a scratch directory in my current environment ?14:29
huatsright ?14:29
norsettohuats: yes14:29
amachubluekuja: i have assigned.. and looking through it14:29
bluekujaamachu, perfect, brb14:29
proppynorsetto: root@nekun:/usr/src# apt-get source viewcvs=0.9.2+cvs.1.0.dev.2004.07.28-4.114:38
proppyI didn't know about that syntax14:38
norsettoproppy: isn't amazing how many things we learn every day?14:39
proppynorsetto: from you yes !14:39
proppynorsetto: do you mentor GLSL as well ?14:39
huatsnorsetto: sorry but how do you use grab-merge ?14:39
norsettoproppy: mind you, if you say that again I hug you14:40
norsettoproppy: do you have the script already?14:40
proppynorsetto: apt-get install phong14:40
norsettoops, sorry14:40
bigondoes somebody know how are handled source name changes if the binary package name are the same? should I ask removal of the source package first?14:40
norsettohuats: do you have the script already?14:40
proppynorsetto: debuilding viewcvs-0.9.2+cvs.1.0.dev.2004.07.28 to reproduce the behaviour on sid14:40
huatsnorsetto: yep14:40
norsettohuats: ok, just mkdir gallery, cd into it, and run grab-merge gallery14:41
huatsand do I say yes to remove all files ?14:42
huats(I've answered my self)14:42
norsettohuats: the first time I used it, I answered no and it deleted everything anyhow :-)14:43
huatsdo I have to ask Mathias Gug (the previous uploader) first ?14:44
norsettohuats: or maybe was the dad script? Oh well, one of the two14:44
zulimbrandon: ping14:44
amachubluekuja: the debian unstable (http://packages.debian.org/sid/qtdmm) has 0.8.10-1 while the ubuntu (http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/science/qtdmm) has 0.8.814:45
norsettohuats: this time is ok, he just sponsored the upload14:45
norsettohuats: but, yes, its good courtesy to check before14:45
amachuneed to bridge that up14:45
huatsnorsetto: ok so now everythin is downloaded/unpacked14:46
norsettohuats: or you will get fujitsu performin his judo moves on you14:47
norsettohuats: or was it judo perfoprming his fujitsu moves? oh well14:47
ScottKFYI, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy now says active development.14:47
norsettohuats: ok, so, have you checked REPORT?14:48
norsettohuats: and? problems? conflicts? looks good?14:48
=== ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Herron is in active development. | Gutsy Gibbon released - start working on Gutsy SRUs. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php
huatsnorsetto: everything seems to be OK14:49
amachubluekuja: i need to create update my pbuilder now for gutsy, i have it for feisty14:49
minghuaSo we are still having both MoM and DaD, right?14:49
norsettohuats: ok, so the first thing to do is to look at the ubuntu changes, those of the old package14:49
ScottKThe work to merge the U/I never got done14:50
amachuam doing a distribution upgrade right now14:50
huatsnorsetto: according there is no conflict14:50
norsettohuats: there should be a file called old_ubuntu_package.patch14:50
huatsnorsetto: so I should check that the produced patch is consistant with everything else...14:51
norsettohuats: in this case: gallery_1.5.5-pl1-1.1ubuntu1.patch14:51
bluekujaamachu, ok, I would suggest you to create a new tarball14:51
bluekujaamachu, so you can keep feisty one14:51
norsettohuats: do you follow me?14:51
ScottKAnyone who did advance uploads to gutsy-proposed, please upload your fixes to Hardy.14:51
TheMusoHardy is open.14:51
huatsnorsetto: I am14:51
TheMusoif people weren't already aware...14:51
ScottKTheMuso: see /topic14:51
* norsetto goes to flood the server14:52
Hobbseenorsetto: you cant.  i'm already uploading lots of crack :P14:52
TheMusoScottK: Did so in -devel.14:52
* TheMuso needs a sbuild chroot first.14:52
ScottKNo.  This one. I've already set it.14:52
norsettohuats: ok, so you checked the ubuntu changes?14:52
huatsnorsetto: in fac I was looking at that file already14:52
amachubluekuja: i downloaded the source from http://www.mtoussaint.de/qtdmm.html#download14:52
bluekujaamachu, why?14:52
bluekujaamachu, I posted you dad and mom links14:52
norsettohuats: in this case its pretty easy, just oneliner14:52
huatsnorsetto: yep and the line for the Maintener field14:53
proppyIs there a policy avaiable (like python) for packaging web application ?14:53
amachui missed it?14:53
norsettohuats: now, can you check the debian changes with respect to the old debian?14:53
bluekujaamachu, and anyway official website doesnt provide a package14:53
bluekujaamachu, which is the same of the archive14:53
norsettohuats: again there should be a file called new_debian_package.patch14:53
amachugot it14:54
norsettohuats: which is what in this case?14:54
bluekujaamachu, so please use or mom/dad or if wanted to do it manually, get the source from debian/ubunut bts14:54
huatsgallery_1.5.7-1..patch ?14:54
norsettohuats: ok, so, how do you check that (hint: do an ls before.....)14:54
amachubluekuja: ok14:55
bluekujahardy seems to be open14:56
huatsnorsetto: lsdiff -z ?14:56
bluekujaand the upload flood on hardy-changes confirms that14:56
norsettobluekuja: ^14:56
bluekujagood development circle to everyone14:56
ScottKIt's already in /topic14:56
huatson the gallery_1.5.7-1.diff.gz file14:57
bluekujayep, just saw it14:57
norsettohuats: well, that would not give you the delta wrt the old debian14:57
huatsnorsetto: but it gives the files that are impacted...14:57
huatsright ?14:57
proppynorsetto: Last login: Tue Oct 23 11:33:23 2007 from host135-230-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it sweeet14:58
norsettoproppy: yes, that was me14:58
norsettohuats: yes, but what you need to do, is checking the changes14:58
norsettohuats: and the file you told me, contains ALL the changes between the two debian versions14:59
huatsnorsetto: ok, so I can have a look at the changelog in the debian latest version15:00
norsettohuats: do we need to know all the changes? All the 13 MByte of changes .....15:00
norsettohuats: you have the diff already, is there a way to filter out only what you need?15:00
norsettohuats: filter out what you need ......15:01
norsettohuats: filter out ......15:01
huatsnorsetto: filterdiff ?15:01
norsettohuats: filter ......15:01
norsettohuats: yes ....15:01
huats(I only knew that tool this morning when talking with you and persia))15:01
norsettohuats: for instance: filterdiff -i'*/debian/*' gallery_1.5.7-1.patch > gallery_1.5.7-1.patch.debian15:02
proppyhuats: isn't amazing how many things we learn every day? (c) norsetto15:02
norsettohuats: so, we take out everything outside /debian15:02
norsettoguys if you don't behave I'm goinna send you out of the classroom .....15:03
norsettohuats: so, what is the change in the new debian wrt the old one?15:04
jdongnorsetto: waah huats took my apple juice, make him fill out an "I word" card!15:04
huatsso now I can ;-)15:05
* norsetto considers early retirement from Mentoring15:05
jdongnorsetto: I think that sticks with you... forever and ever and ever :)15:05
* norsetto considers his pension15:05
* norsetto decide to stick with it15:06
bluekujajdong, heya :)15:06
jdongyo :)15:06
proppynorsetto: I already tied your photo to the wall of my own personnal dojo15:06
* jdong waits pitti e-mail, but only finds angry messages from his math TA...15:06
norsettoproppy: yeah, its good target practice15:07
bluekujajdong, lol15:07
norsettoproppy: a nose shot its not worth much though, too easy a target15:07
huatsnorsetto: you want to know the diff in the new debian compared to the ubuntu one ?15:07
norsettohuats: no, the new debian wrt the old one15:08
norsettohuats: so that we can see if the ubuntu changes are covered, or not15:08
proppynorsetto: I have to agree, I prefer to aim at the viking-something figure in the back15:09
norsettoproppy: thats a cow!15:09
huatsnorsetto: Ok, i understood (I was very long...)  ubuntu changes are not covered15:09
* TheMuso now has a hardy chroot, for i386 at least.15:10
* proppy grats TheMuso15:10
StevenKTheMuso: Bit slow, aren't you? :-)15:10
norsettohuats: ok, so, now check what mom is proposing as new package15:10
TheMusoStevenK: Well since I only saw the hardy open notice a little while ago...15:10
proppynorsetto: I was able to reproduce the bug on debian15:10
TheMusoAnd, I'm doing other things at the same time.15:11
proppynorsetto: upgrading etch -> sid15:11
proppynorsetto: let me reply to the debian bug report15:11
norsettoproppy: good news, flood the DD with bugs ;-)15:11
norsettoproppy: I would open a new bug actually15:11
proppynorsetto: ok15:11
proppynorsetto: do not know about the debian flow at all15:12
proppynorsetto: I heard it is mailed based15:12
norsettoproppy: check it out, but I don't think there is another bug on the upgrade15:12
norsettoproppy: yes, the debian bts is email based, there should be a script (reportbug I think) that can be used though15:13
proppynorsetto: so I should report a bug 'Broken template in viewvc (sid) when upgrading from viewcvs(etch) ?15:13
norsettoproppy: sound good, remember to link it to the ubuntu bug, and remove the other bug which is not relevant15:13
norsettohuats: again, it is best to filter the patch, something like: filterdiff -i'*/debian/*' gallery_1.5.7-1ubuntu1.patch > gallery_1.5.7-1ubuntu1.patch.debian15:15
proppynorsetto: the bug is definitly related to this one too15:15
proppynorsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=40986415:15
ubotuDebian bug 409864 in viewvc "viewvc: No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/templates/directory.ezt' for SVN, but CVS works OK" [Important,Open]15:15
proppynorsetto:  For a workaround, either set the template_dir option in the [options]   section of your viewvc.conf and comment out all of the explicit   templates specified in the [templates] section, or just make sure   that every template in the [templates] section is specified with an   absolute path.15:16
proppynorsetto: that's exactly what my script do15:16
proppynorsetto: and someone pointed that as a workaround in this very bug report15:16
norsettoproppy: ah ok, didn remember that15:16
norsettoproppy: so, there is no need to raise a new bug then15:17
proppynorsetto: nor me, I just read the comments another time15:17
huatsnorsetto: I was doing that... before someone call me on my office phone ;-)15:17
proppynorsetto: as the bug is tagged as unreproducible15:17
proppynorsetto: I should comment my way to reproduce it I guess15:17
norsettoproppy: well, just propose your script in that bug then, and yes, say that you were able to reproduce and how15:17
proppynorsetto: and attach a viewvc-template not packaged as a way to automate the workaround15:18
norsettoproppy: sure15:19
TheMusoI'm assuming dpkg-striptranslations doesn't get run for PPA builds?15:19
FujitsuTheMuso: At the moment it does, I believe, but I filed a bug on it some months ago.15:20
huatsnorsetto: so in that diff there is still the old ubuntu patch + some new translations15:20
TheMusoFujitsu: Ok, thats kinda useful for me at this point, thanks.15:21
norsettohuats: ok, if you are happy with it, make your additions to the changelog and prepare the new source package15:21
norsettohuats: before doing that, I would also check if there is any bug in gallery which could be addressed in this upload too15:22
FujitsuBug #13639915:22
ubotuLaunchpad bug 136399 in soyuz "PPA builders performing normal Ubuntu binary mangling" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13639915:22
FujitsuTheMuso: ^^15:22
huatsnorsetto: ok15:23
TheMusoFujitsu: Turns out I don't need to worry about it any more, thanks anyway.15:26
=== cprov is now known as cprov-lunch
effie_jayxdholbach, ping15:32
norsettoscottk: to be clear on the sru thingie, its just a new dput right?15:35
ScottKnorsetto: You mean for Hardy?15:36
norsettoScottK: yes, your email just sent15:36
dholbacheffie_jayx: can you drop me a mail, I'm quite busy right now15:36
ScottKnorsetto: With a different version number and distro in debian/changelog, but yes.15:36
norsettoScottK: ah! ok, now I understand15:37
huatsnorsetto: regarding the merge15:37
huatsin the changelog15:38
huatsI do let mom as the author of the change ? or do I put mine ?15:38
ScottKhuats: You15:38
norsettohuats: try to leave mom and see what happens ;-)15:38
huatssometimes I am so dumb15:39
huatsScottK and norsetto thanks15:39
norsettohuats: so, no new bugs which can be covered by this upload?15:39
effie_jayxdholbach,  cool15:40
norsettohuats: I wanted to check the debian bug about the ubuntu change, but their server seems to be down (proppy must be sending his bug mails)15:40
dholbacheffie_jayx: thanks!15:40
huatsnorsetto: I was just preparing the changelog15:41
huatsI was planning to have a look at the new bugs tonight15:41
norsettohuats: take your time, hardy is out only next April15:42
huatsby the way the new target is hardy15:42
norsettohuats: yes .....15:42
huatsso I can create a pbuilder for it...15:43
proppynorsetto: few just have sorted 1600+ mail, for finding the accuratly the Debian BTS confirmation :)15:44
norsettohuats: I think you can already15:44
huatsI do need a new bootstrap ?15:44
huatsdebbootstrap ?15:44
huatsor do I copy the one from gutsy ?15:44
ScottKhuats: Take a gutsy pbuilder and dist-upgrade it.15:44
norsettohuats: deboobstrap?15:45
huatsnorsetto: I meant debbootstrao15:45
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
mruizbluekuja, hi! I attached the debdiff related to the bug 15087615:45
ubotuLaunchpad bug 150876 in xen-meta "English error in description" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15087615:45
bluekujamruiz, well done. Let me finish something and I move to it :)15:46
mruizthanks bluekuja :-)15:46
bluekujathanks to you mruiz :)15:46
mruizbluekuja, you're welcome :-)15:47
huatsScottK sorry to ask but how do I dist-upgrade a pbuilder ?15:47
ScottKhuats: You'll have to study the manpage for pbuilder for the exact syntax, but you use login and save-changes (or something close to that) and then gutsy/hardy sources.list and dist-upgrade while in the chroot.15:49
huatsthe pont I was missing was the save-changes15:50
huatsthanks ScottK15:50
proppynorsetto: send the bug report to BTS think I'll take a few to show up15:54
norsettoproppy: yes, give them some minutes15:55
proppynorsetto: and checked that the viewvc-template python script fix the pb15:55
proppynorsetto: so I will reply with the script attached15:55
proppynorsetto: still not yet up :(15:58
norsettoproppy: last I checked the server was down15:59
proppynorsetto: just stalked your interview in behidnmotu16:04
proppynorsetto: nice cat16:04
norsettonorsetto: thats grand-minou ;-)16:05
norsettoproppy: when one talks to himself, is that a bad sign?16:06
proppynorsetto: grand-minou really ? my neightboor one is called minou-chat16:07
StevenKnorsetto: No. When one answers themselves, it's worse.16:07
norsettostevenk: hehe16:08
norsettoproppy: then we have petite-minette and microbe16:09
proppynorsetto: posted to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=40986416:09
ubotuDebian bug 409864 in viewvc "viewvc: No such file or directory: '/usr/lib/templates/directory.ezt' for SVN, but CVS works OK" [Important,Open]16:09
norsettoproppy: what a fantasy eh.....16:09
proppynorsetto: my previous cat was called 'kernel' I know one called 'linux'16:09
proppynorsetto: the current one is 'roti'16:10
proppynorsetto: Let me reply to the BTS with the patch attached16:10
norsettoproppy: you mean, like roti-de-boeuf?16:10
proppynorsetto: yes16:11
proppynorsetto: s/patch/script16:12
proppyI forgot to point the ubuntu bug16:16
ScottKhuats: I can verify that pbuilder upgrade approach works.  I just did it.16:18
huatsScottK:  I did it too...16:19
huatsI don't know how to check it really works, but i dit16:19
huatsScottK thanks16:20
ScottKhuats: Try and update your upgraded pbuilder is a reasonable test.16:21
proppynorsetto: update bug #15243816:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 152438 in viewvc "ViewVC doesn't work after dist-upgrade from viewcvs in feisty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15243816:21
proppynorsetto: and Debian BTS as well16:21
mruizbluekuja, any advance ?16:22
bluekujamruiz, not yet on it16:22
mruizbluekuja, ok...16:23
bluekujamruiz, gonna ping you when reviewed16:23
nxvlwhere are the rules for debian/patches?16:23
gesernxvl: what rules?16:24
nxvlgeser: it doesn't need rules?16:24
nxvlhow do patches in debian/patches are apllied, by default?16:24
huatsnxvl: hey16:25
huatsnxvl: you remember this morning (yesterday everning for you)16:26
huatswhen you did the merge16:26
geserah, depends on the patch system but usually through debian/rules16:26
huatsyou have added a line in the rules file16:26
huatsthat I already have added16:26
geserthe documentation should have an example what to add to debian/rules16:26
nxvlhuats: of course16:27
nxvlhuats: and i think you are the person to help me on these16:27
nxvlhuats: how do you make your patches to be apllied16:27
gesernxvl: which patch system do you use?16:27
nxvlhuats: i'm trying to separate the patches and send to the DD as coordinate this $(5 hours ago)16:28
huatsnxvl: in the rules file you add a line that include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make16:28
nxvlhuats: so, i only need to add the patches to debian/patches and list them on 00list sicen you do the work earlier?16:29
huatsnxvl: dpatch is handling it for you, since it is already in it16:30
huatsso you can create the other patch16:30
geserhuats: or if you use cdbs for packaging, cdbs has a ready file to include for dpatch16:30
nxvlhuats: ]HUGS*16:30
nxvlhuats: *HUGS*16:30
huatsand as long as you include them in patches/16:30
huatsand you list them in the 00list it is ok16:31
huatsI think16:31
nxvlhuats: lets try is the only way to see if it's true16:31
huatsyou don't have to put a call in the rules file for every patch16:31
huatsif is your question :-)16:32
huatsgeser: it was debhelper if I remember well...16:32
* huats hugs back nxvl16:32
nxvlhuats: yes it was16:32
proppyScottK: have you take a look at bug #15583916:34
ubotuLaunchpad bug 155839 in openct "Please sync openct_0.6.14-2 from Debian unstable (main) to Ubuntu hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15583916:34
proppywhat is missing ?16:34
* ScottK can take a quick look, but not enough to upload it.16:34
=== cprov-lunch is now known as cprov
proppyScottK: np16:35
ScottKproppy: Forgot it was a sync.  That I should be able to deal with.16:35
nxvlshould i include Makefile.in in the patches?16:36
tonyyarussoOooof....I'm reaching the conclusion that Gutsy wasn't ready for release.16:36
huatsnxvl: what do you mean ?16:36
amachubluekuja: hi16:37
bluekujaamachu, heya16:37
nxvlhuats: lsdiff shows me Makefile.in16:38
ScottKproppy: Looked good.  Confirmed and ack'ed to the archive.16:38
amachubluekuja: the MoM says about the conflict16:38
amachuin debian/comtrol16:38
proppyScottK: thanks16:38
amachuin debian/control16:38
nxvlhuats: as well as the config's i have been told to remove, so i'm not sure about including it16:38
amachubluekuja: fine.. i untarred qtdmm_0.8.10-1ubuntu1.src.tar.gz16:39
bluekujaamachu, y?16:39
bluekujaamachu, mom/dad does that for you16:39
huatsnxvl: the lsdiff on the efax-gtk_3.0.15-1.patch right ?16:40
bluekujaamachu, small question16:40
bluekujaamachu, what did you do for grabbing stuff from dad/mom?16:40
amachubluekuja: yes16:40
bluekujaI hope you did *not* wget file by file16:40
amachugrabbing stuff?16:41
nxvlhuats: not, on efax-gtk_3.0.15-1.diff.gz16:41
bluekujaamachu, yes16:41
amachubluekuja: i used kget16:41
huatsthat was what I meant16:41
bluekujaamachu, wrong :)16:42
bluekujaamachu, did you read dad/mom istructions?16:42
bluekujabefore starting up?16:42
huatsyou have to keep them16:42
bluekujaamachu, usually guidelines are there to be understood16:42
huatssince it is not generated16:42
bluekujaand followed16:42
huatsit is done on purpose16:42
huatslet's have a look at the efax-gtk_3.0.15-1 changelog16:43
amachubluekuja: dad/mom instructions in?16:43
bluekujaamachu, suggestion--> grab-merge.sh16:43
huatsand you'll see that some modifications happened to the Makefile.in16:43
huatsand Makefile16:43
bluekujaamachu, did you see it somewhere?16:44
bluekujain starting guidelines?16:44
huatsanyway you can remove the config stuff but not the Make one -)16:44
bluekujaat dad/mom homepage?16:44
amachui remember16:45
amachujust a min16:45
nxvlhuats: that was my cuestion, thnx again16:45
huatsno problem16:46
huatsit is the first time I can answer someone questions here !!!16:46
* huats hugs everyone16:46
huatsto celebrate16:46
amachubluekuja: its in the homepage16:46
bluekujaamachu, yep16:47
nxvlhuats: where was the page where we see the menu policy? did you remember?16:49
huatsnxvl:  http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html/ch3.html#s3.216:51
nxvlhuats: thnx16:52
nxvlhuats: ok, the patch are in sigle files on debian/patches, but now, how do i remove the old ones?16:57
RainCTHobbsee: hi16:57
Hobbseehiya RainCT16:57
huatsold ones ?16:57
huatsold patches ?16:57
nxvlhuats: yes16:58
nxvlhuats: backporting to orig source i think16:58
huatsI am sorry I don't see the point16:58
RainCTHobbsee: about bug 155845, «What happened to kubuntu-restricted-extras, ppc?  did it not deserve to have gnash?», I didn't add it since gnash depends on libgtk2. should I add it anyways?16:59
ubotuLaunchpad bug 155845 in ubuntu-restricted-extras "Description says it will install flash, but it doesn't on amd64 systems" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15584516:59
huatsby instance what do you want to remove16:59
ScottKfernando: Are you up for the Courier merge?  Let me know if you have questions.16:59
nxvlhuats: in the lsdiff there is some non debian changes16:59
nxvlhuats: i want to remove them16:59
HobbseeRainCT: amarok also depends on libgtk217:00
huatsnxvl: I think that you should not remove them17:00
nxvlhuats: what i'm doing is to change the package to dpatch and then i will send the debdiff to the DD17:00
fernandohey ScottK, I'm a little busy. but no questions yet17:01
huatsthe changes that are non debian ones are already there in the new debian package right ?17:01
nxvlhuats: yes17:01
huatsso there is no point of dealing with them, at least from my point of view...17:02
ScottKfernando: OK.  Just let me know.17:02
huatsbut once again maybe I am wrong17:02
huatsnxvl: you should let them...17:02
huatsnxvl: I am sorry17:02
huatsnxvl: I really have to go17:02
amachubluekuja: ya got that17:02
huatsbut I'll should be able to reconnect later tonight...17:03
RainCTHobbsee: ok.. so should I add it there too?17:03
HobbseeRainCT: sounds reasonable17:03
RainCTHobbsee: (and about the patch, I just used   debdiff packagename.old packagename > packagename.debdiff )17:04
huatsI am sure norsetto  or persia might be able to help on you on that before I come back17:04
huatsonce again, I am sorry17:04
HobbseeRainCT: you need to do it in the dir that the two dsc's are in, iirc.17:04
Hobbseeor do you acutally need to do it in the source/  hmm.17:05
nxvlhuats: ok, have a nice day and thank you :D17:05
huatsthanks too17:05
nxvlhuats: you don't have to be sorry17:05
RainCTHobbsee: ah yes, sorry, I meant the .dsc's of the old one and of the new one17:06
* ScottK notes for the record that ESC :wq doesn't work in Kate.17:06
RainCTdebdiff ubuntu-restricted-extras_10.dsc ubuntu-restricted-extras_11.dsc > ubuntu-restricted-extras_11.debdiff17:06
bluekujamruiz, commented17:06
HobbseeRainCT: hmm.  it shoul dhave worked17:07
HobbseeRainCT: in that case, you need to delete the preceeding characters before the u-r-e/ dir17:07
Hobbseeso that the patch applies with patch -p117:07
mruizthanks bluekuja , I'll continue later17:07
bluekujamruiz, k fine17:08
bluekujaamachu, done?17:08
amachubluekuja: not done yet.. got through the grab-merge.sh17:10
bluekujaah ok fine17:10
cosmodadhow do I revert patching done between <package>-ubuntuX and -ubuntuX+1?17:13
cosmodadI suppose there's some Debian/Ubuntu helper for that. Keyword would be fine.17:13
RainCTHobbsee: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10130712/ubuntu-restricted-extras_11.debdiff17:13
RainCT«Does flashplugin-nonfree actually work sufficiently well on amd64»   about that, I've no idea :P17:14
HobbseeRainCT: looks much better.  what does `gstreamer0.10-pitfdll' do?17:14
Hobbseeyeah, i think i saw a few bugs about it, which i why i didnt add it before17:14
mruizbluekuja, I uploaded a new version :-)17:14
bluekujamruiz, checking17:15
amachubluekuja: the MoM says about .DEBIAN and .UBUNTU files17:16
bluekujaamachu, after grabbing the source, check REPORT fil17:17
bluekujaand find out conflicts17:17
bluekujafix them17:17
RainCTHobbsee: «GStreamer plugin for using MS Windows binary codecs», it's requested in bug 15577017:17
ubotuLaunchpad bug 155770 in ubuntu-restricted-extras "ubuntu-restricted-extras doesn't recommend gstreamer0.10-pitfdll" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15577017:17
HobbseeRainCT: oh, that one.  right17:17
Hobbseeyeah, i saw that come in17:17
mruizbluekuja, I have to leave IRC right now... I'm waiting for your comments... thanks!17:22
bluekujamruiz, uploading17:22
dholbach   QUESTION: where are debtags saved (the tags for each deb package)?17:27
dholbach^ can somebody answer that?17:27
RainCTwhat are debtags? :P17:32
jpatrickdholbach: /var/lib/debtags17:33
jpatrick(I think)17:33
cosmodadhow do I revert patching done between <package>-ubuntuX and -ubuntuX+1?17:33
geserHobbsee: Hi, should I get my gnumed-client removed from -proposed (if it's possible)?17:34
ScottKgeser: I don't think it's possible.  At this point we need to just make really sure it's well tested before --> gutsy-updates17:34
Hobbseei have no idea17:34
norsetto_dholbach, jpatrick: I think the local repo is in /usr/share/debtags17:36
jpatricknorsetto_: well I have a 2.2MB file in there with them17:37
* norsetto_ hugs geser, scottk and hobbsee17:42
=== norsetto_ is now known as norsetto
* ScottK does his first Hardy upload :-)17:42
* Hobbsee hugs norsetto17:42
norsettoscottK: beat you already :-P17:43
norsettoanyone feels giving a look at: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=399 ?17:44
cosmodadI'm trying to revert an upgrade done to a specific Ubuntu package and re-merge with the latest Debian package. Someone (here) told me before I should revert the patches prior to merging.17:47
cosmodadAlthough I've been looking hard on how to revert, I cannot figure it out. Can anyone give me a hint?17:47
nxvlnorsetto: i have made the changes u ask for, and updated the LP page17:50
nxvlnorsetto: can u take a look please17:50
norsettonxvl: yes, doing it already17:50
norsettonxvl: I can modify it this time, but next time pls. make sure that the chnagelog entries will wrap before the 80 chars limit17:50
nxvlnorsetto: oh, i didn't know that, i will keep it in mind17:51
jpatrickcould someone look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=379 ?17:52
norsettonxvl: otherwise it looks good, I'll build, test and if its ok upload it soon, thanks for your work!17:52
nxvlnorsetto: thnk u for your help, i'm glad to work with you :D17:53
* nxvl hugs norsetto 17:53
nxvlnow, going to work17:53
nxvlsee you later17:54
* ScottK hugs norsetto back.17:54
* norsetto faints17:54
jpatricknorsetto: was it that awful?17:54
ScottKjpatrick: That was me, not you.17:55
jpatrickah, right :)17:55
dholbachthanks jpatrick, norsetto17:57
jpatrickno prob17:58
ScottKdholbach: Noted.17:59
norsettodholbach: was that anywhere close to what you wanted?17:59
dholbachScottK: hm?18:01
zulwik/win 1018:05
zuldamn it18:05
=== nuu is now known as nu
=== nu is now known as nuu
norsettothis is new to me. When debuilding a merge, I get this warning message: Ubuntu merge policy: when merging Ubuntu packages with Debian, -v must be used18:12
Hobbseenorsetto: because keybuk will eat you otherwise.18:12
Hobbseenorsetto: you're not using merge-buildpackage, or whatever it is, from mom?18:12
=== geser_ is now known as geser
norsettoHobbsee: no, I just got a debdiff from the uploader and checking it18:13
Hobbseenorsetto: it's so that only the changelog up to the last ubuntu version is used - where you set what version is after the -v18:13
Hobbseemerge-buildpackage automates this for you.18:13
norsettoHobbsee: well, thanks18:14
Hobbseenorsetto: but keybuk will yell at you if you dont specify the right -v value - or any18:15
norsettowell, suppose the last version was 3.0.15-1ubuntu1 and this one fater the merge 3.0.14-1ubuntu1, then the right command is debuild -S -sa -v3.0.14-1ubuntu1, right?18:17
imbrandonmoins all18:17
norsettosorry: suppose the last version was 3.0.14-1ubuntu1 and this one after the merge 3.0.15-1ubuntu1, then the right command is debuild -S -sa -v3.0.14-1ubuntu1, right?18:17
* norsetto just wonders why he has never seen that before18:18
* Hobbsee heads to bed18:20
jpatrickg'night Hobbsee18:20
norsettog'night Hobbsee18:21
luk_good night Hobbsee18:24
nixternalimbrandon: it is freakin' afternoon, what are you saying moin for? lazy bum :p18:24
hypa7iahey motu folks, what's the process to get a Universe package updated if an old version was included in Gutsy?18:25
hypa7iabarring that does anyone know how to track down a package maintainer in motu?18:30
slangasekhypa7ia: universe doesn't strictly have package maintainers, it's collaboratively maintained18:31
hypa7iaahh, good to know18:32
hypa7iaso the proper process from what i see in the MOTU FAQ is just to file a bug on the package18:33
imbrandonnixternal, haha18:33
imbrandonnixternal, listened to lugradio yet this week ?18:33
nixternalimbrandon: heh, just starting it right now18:38
imbrandonnixternal, about an hour and 5 minutes in see if you reconise someone , fskin hilarious imho18:39
norsettoScottK: are we back to normal for srus  (ie. subscribe ubuntu-sru and not motu-uvf)?18:39
ScottKnorsetto: Yes, but there is motu-sru.18:40
ScottKis /is no18:40
ScottKNormal = You upload it to proposed when it's fixed in Hardy and you think it's ready.18:41
norsettoScottK: ok, thanks for that18:42
ScottKnorsetto: If you found documentation referring to motu-sru, please fix it.18:42
norsettoscottk: sure18:42
norsettoScottK: can you pls. unsubscribe motu-uvf from bug 155498 then?18:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 155498 in rutilt "rutilt 0.15-0ubuntu5 crashes while applying a profile" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15549818:43
ScottKnorsetto: No.  I already deactivated myself.18:43
norsettoscottK: ah18:44
norsettoscottk: well, never mind than18:44
zulimbrandon: ping18:44
imbrandonzul, pong18:47
cosmodadhow'd one suffix customly modified package-names to differ them from official ones?18:54
cosmodadI thought of something similar to backports, e.g. ~cosmodad18:54
ScottKShould be fine.18:55
sistpotyhi folks19:15
jpatrickhi sistpoty19:15
sistpotyhi jpatrick19:15
ScottKHeya sistpoty.19:18
sistpotyhi ScottK19:18
adii HI19:19
geserHi sistpoty19:20
sistpotyhi geser19:20
deadwillScottK, PM?19:36
ScottKIf it's quick.19:36
=== _stefan_ is now known as sistpoty
* nixternal just did his first Hardy upload...woohoo! it is on!20:28
cosmodadcan anyone help me out with a pdebuild prob? All build-deps can be satisfied except for a single one (libsplashy1-dev) even though it's part of the Gutsy rep (which `pbuilder create' was based on)20:31
cosmodadhow'd I debug this issue?20:31
=== cprov is now known as cprov-out
ScottKIs the package in Universe and do you have Universe enabled?20:33
cosmodadScottK: it's in Universe which I have enabled on my machine prior to doing pbuilder create.20:34
cosmodadScottK: do I have to tell pbuilder specifically about this as well?20:34
ScottKThat doesn't mean it's enabled in the pbuilder.20:34
cosmodadhow'd I do that?20:34
pochucosmodad: check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#head-5e61fa0f52f7f2442fb20f074813bd691744460b20:35
ScottKman pbuilder is the snarky answer.  The easy way is to get the ubuntu-dev-tools package and use the pbuilder-dist script there.20:35
sistpotyany main sponsors around that could help me with bug #156362?20:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 156362 in nvidia-settings "should ship NVCtrl.h and NVCtrlLib.h" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15636220:35
bluekujacosmodad, gedit /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc and uncomment other components20:35
bluekujacosmodad, do a tarball update, that's all20:36
bluekujaor follow ScottK's advice as well20:36
cosmodadwow thanks all20:36
bluekujacosmodad, np20:37
cosmodadwhich approach should I prefer?20:37
ScottKWhichever one you actually prefer.  Technically the get you to the same place.20:40
cosmodadoh I see, pbuilder-dist looks comfortable20:40
ScottKBeware that the Gutsy version doesn't actually work for Debian dists.20:40
cosmodadScottK: you mean if I build against Gutsy reps?20:42
=== davro is now known as davromaniak
ScottKNo, I mean if you use the Gutsy version of pbuilder-dist to make a pbuilder for a Debian dist, it won't work.20:43
ScottKFor any Ubuntu release it's fine.20:43
ScottKTo get it working for a Debian pbuilder takes a bit of hackage.20:44
slangasekScottK: why is that, OOI?20:44
cosmodadScottK: this in fact is supposed to be an Ubuntu release.20:44
ScottKIt's a bug in the script.20:44
cosmodadScottK: I'm interested in this bug anyway, out of curiosity.20:44
ScottKcosmodad: Bug a lot of us do work in Ubuntu20:45
ScottKBug 140964 for details.20:45
ubotuLaunchpad bug 140964 in ubuntu-dev-tools "pbuilder-dist tries Ubuntu components for Debian distro" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14096420:45
nixternaldevtools in hardy aren't picking up on the hardy in the changelogs...am I forgetting another hack in order to get the highlighting to go away?20:45
ScottKThis particular bug is an example of why I dislike bzr repos for packages.20:45
cosmodadScottK: "a bit of hackage" referred to pbuilder-dist only, right?20:46
cosmodadScottK: in that case, I'll evade pbuilder-dist for the moment20:46
ScottKcosmodad: Up to you.  For Ubuntu it works great.20:47
ajmitchhm, gutsy not doing much on the laptop when I'm trying to login today20:48
* ajmitch kicks it20:48
cosmodadScottK: thanks again.20:49
ScottKNo trouble.20:49
* sistpoty is off to bed20:50
sistpotygn8 everyone20:50
imbrandonheya ajmitch20:50
imbrandongnight sistpoty20:50
ajmitchhi imbrandon20:50
* ajmitch wonders why it is playing stupid today, since there have been no updates20:51
zulhey ajmitch20:51
imbrandonzul, i also had nixternaltry that lum , works perfectly20:51
jcastroI can't help but read "Hi imbrandon" as "Hi, I'm brandon."20:51
ajmitchjcastro: he was imaginative, that's for sure20:51
imbrandonjcastro, thats the exact point of the nick ;)20:51
zulimbrandon: nifty..20:52
zulimbrandon: if you give me about 20 minutes ill have a xbox kernel for you20:52
imbrandonkick ass20:52
imbrandoni'm gonna blog a bit about it too when i file the bug20:52
zulof course i dont know if it will work because you havent sent me one yet ;)20:53
ajmitchawesome, I login & kill stuff, and the desktop starts20:53
imbrandonzul, you know i owe your fist born beer for life for helping me ;)20:53
zulimbrandon: well wait til he is a bit older and i think he might appreciate it ;)20:53
imbrandonjcastro, thats for pointing out that LR thing, that was hilarious20:54
jcastroyeah, I literally fell out of my chair20:55
ajmitchimbrandon: hm?20:55
jcastroenglishmen trying to mimic a southern accent, brilliant20:55
ajmitchjcastro: how's your open week going?20:55
imbrandonjcastro, they did something similar when i was interviewd on LR20:55
jcastroajmitch: it's _our_ openweek!20:55
ajmitchimbrandon: you were interviewed? I didn't realise we had such a celebrity20:56
imbrandonajmitch, i got a mention on LR , you have to hear it to beleive it20:56
jcastroajmitch: there were something like 260+ people in dholbach's packaging sessions20:56
ajmitchjcastro: not for my timezone :)20:56
imbrandoni was interviewed on LR in May, todays epsisode i just got mentionede20:56
jcastroajmitch: hopefully it'll motivate some people to get involved, etc.20:56
jcastroI certainly learned from the session20:56
imbrandonthe Q & A session should be nice too20:57
imbrandoni'm gonna pull and see how many other MOTU's i can have with me fielding Q's too20:57
ajmitchjcastro: at best I can catch the last session or two20:57
imbrandonyea the sessions should be a bit later IMHO20:58
ajmitchdepends on which timezone you're aiming for :)20:58
zulimbrandon: i have to head home but ill be back later20:58
imbrandonevening central USA rocks :)20:58
imbrandonzul, kk20:58
imbrandone.g. 2000 UTC onword20:59
ajmitchmakes it fun trying to follow a team who always has irc meetings at 4am local time20:59
imbrandonyea that sucks21:00
* ajmitch just gave up after awhile21:00
norsettowhere is it possible to find remove requests in debian?21:29
ScottKnorsetto: Info is here: http://wiki.debian.org/ftpmaster_Removals21:31
norsettoScottK: excellent, thanks!21:31
huatsnorsetto: I am back with my merge21:31
ScottKnorsetto: You're welcome21:31
huatswhat is the good way to create the package ?21:31
huatsmerge-buildpackage ?21:31
huatsis there a way to use pbuilder ?21:32
norsettohuats: I tend to use a manual method, like debuild21:32
huatsor is it like always21:32
huatssame as always : debuild -S -sa21:32
RainCTgood night21:33
huatsand then pbuilder build ?21:33
huatsRainCT: good night21:33
huatsnorsetto: so nothing changes in a merge than from a classical build21:33
ScottKIf I've got a package with an installed config file, how do I get the question about the modified version of the config file asked?  Call debconf in the postinst?21:34
norsettohuats: it is a normal build, I just found out today that we just need to add a -v option to make the changelog trasparent to all the changes since the last ubuntu one, and thats it21:34
norsettohuats: but for you this is not necessary, its only if you need a source .changes21:35
=== asac_ is now known as asac
gesernorsetto: the PTS often has also a record (the bug number) why a package got removed21:43
geserScottK: isn't dpkg handling configfiles itself?21:44
norsettogeser: ok, I'm in need just to check if a removal request has been issued already only21:44
gesernorsetto: check the PTS for the package, it should have a comment about it21:45
geserScottK: some packages use also ucf for config files hangling21:45
ScottKgeser: I'm finding yes.  I'm researching it.21:45
* ScottK thought it was debconf, but it is dpkg.21:46
norsettogeser: thx, I'll keep an eye on that then21:47
slangasekScottK: if it's a conffile, dpkg prompts automatically any time there's a modified version on disk and the version in the new package has changed.21:54
slangasekif it's not a conffile, ucf is the best option21:54
ScottKslangasek: Thanks.  I think I've figured out how to teach dpkg it's a conffile.  I'm testing now.21:55
slangasekScottK: is this an existing config file that you're trying to turn into a conffile, or a new package?21:56
ScottKIt's an existing package with a config file that was not so marked.  I'm trying to fix it.21:56
* ajmitch kills esd21:57
ScottKWell that didn't work...21:58
slangasekScottK: ah, then you want the magic conversion bits... http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling I think21:59
ScottKslangasek: Thanks.  Looking22:00
slangasekScottK: alas, that page doesn't seem to have the bits that are actually relevant here, so let me summarize22:01
slangasekScottK: if the config file was previously installed as a non-conffile, calculate the md5sum of the version that was shipped in the old package; in the preinst of the new package, compare it to the md5sum of the file on disk; if they're equal, delete the file22:02
* ScottK appreciates.22:02
slangasekScottK: otherwise, leave the file alone and dpkg's conffile handling should pick up the conflict22:02
ScottKOK.  How does dpkg know it's a conffile?22:03
ScottKActually I think I figured it.22:03
ScottKI think I missed .conffile vs .conffiles.22:04
* ScottK tries again.22:04
slangasekScottK: if you're using any of the standard packaging helpers (debhelper, or cdbs+debhelper), any files shipped under /etc are automatically made conffiles22:05
slangasekif you're not using them, why not? :), and if you're shipping a conffile outside of /etc you probably should'nt22:05
ScottKIt's CBDS and it appears to not be finding it (it's in /etc).22:06
slangasekusing the debhelper class?22:06
ScottKGood question - checking22:06
ScottKI have .../rules/debhelper.mk, but not class.22:07
ScottKUpstream ships the conffile in /usr/local and I move it.  Maybe I do it too late in the process.22:07
slangasekah, my mistake, it's not under class22:07
slangasekah, at what point are you moving it?  Please move it as part of "install"22:08
slangasekfor best results22:08
ScottKLooking back, (it's a python app) what I did was patch the provided setup.py to put in /etc.22:10
* ScottK doens't know why that wouldn't just work.22:10
slangaseksounds like it should22:10
ScottKWell I'll google some more and see what I can come up with.  Thanks for helping.22:11
* ScottK may try python-central for the first time to see if it manages it.22:11
bmk789are most packages compiled with the -O3 gcc flag or is there a standard optimization ubuntu uses?22:17
slangasekthe standard optimization inherited from Debian is -O222:18
ScottKslangasek: adding debian/binary_packagename.conffiles containing the path/filename of the conffile solved it.22:18
slangasekScottK: there aren't any DH_VERSION lines in debian/rules, are there?22:19
slangasek(which I think cdbs might override anyway, but)22:19
ScottKNot in debian/rules (it's vanilla CDBS).  I"ll check the build logs22:19
bmk789so -O2 is just the default or are packages only accepted at -O2?22:19
ScottKslangasek: dh_version does not appear to get called.22:20
slangasekScottK: or a pre-existing debian/version file?  The thing is, debhelper from something like compat level 3 on is supposed to automatically treat any files installed under /etc as conffiles when building.22:21
ScottKNope.  compat = 5 and no debian/version file.22:21
ScottKslangasek: I'm in the Debian Python Modules Team.  I'll go bug them as I expect it's something Python packaging related.  Thanks for all your help.22:22
slangasekScottK: as long as dh_installdeb is called, conffiles are really supposed to be registered automatically, so that's really weird.  good luck then. :)22:24
ScottKWell that one definitely gets called.22:24
ScottKThanks again.22:24
slangasekbmk789: you really shouldn't be using a different optimization level than -O2 without a particular reason, but it's not an absolute rule.22:24
bmk789ok thanks22:25
lamegowhat is the DEB*ARCH var ?22:41
lamegoI mean, which22:41
norsettowell, thats it22:52
norsettog'night all people22:52
norsettog'night good people too22:52
ajmitchg'night norsetto22:52
* ajmitch returns to trolling nixternal 22:53
mruizhi all23:18
mruizbluekuja, thanks for the upload :-)23:19
desertcGreetings masters of the universe.  I want to call your attention to a project that I think is extremely worthy of assistance.23:54
ubotuLaunchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress]23:54
desertcMutter is an open source alternative to Team Speak and Ventrilo, neither of which have Linux clients.  I feel strongly that this software could have a significant impact on Linux desktop users, as no open source VoIP-conferencing-solution is popular, atm.23:56
desertcIt looked like (a couple months back) that it was in line with getting into Gutsy, but I lost sight of the progress, and now the maintainer seems to be having communication negotiations through the bug-entry-system.23:57
desertcAs I said, I think this is an important potential package, and I wanted to illuminate the software and it's potential, in case there were some champions in here that felt they could help out.23:58
desertcThanks for all of your help and congratulations on a fantastic Gutsy Gibbon release.23:58

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