[00:08] <Rudd-X> hmmmmmmmm
[00:08] <Rudd-X> not good
[00:08] <Rudd-X> not good at all
[00:09] <Rudd-X> OK let me switch to a qtable based layout?
[00:09] <Rudd-X> I basically need something like gtktreeview where I can pack shit like widgets in it
[00:09] <Rudd-X> now I know it can sort of be done, Amarok does it
[00:09] <Rudd-X> I basically need to pack in a row one label (or text item) and a check box
[00:09] <Rudd-X> what's the ideal route?
[00:09] <Rudd-X> in Qtspeak at least
[00:11] <Rudd-X> I'm on my second beer now :-)
[00:13] <nixternal> haha
[00:13] <nixternal> I am trying to make dinner, but I don't know what I want
[00:14] <nixternal> what you are seeing in Amarok may be a KDE specialty actually...you might want to consult the KDE API on that one
[00:19] <Rudd-X> hmmmmmm
[00:19] <Rudd-X> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[00:19] <Rudd-X> lst me see
[00:20] <Rudd-X> ok
[00:20] <Rudd-X> lemme ask wheels
[00:21] <Rudd-X> I've got the algo hashed and mashed up, I just need the widget to test my theories
[00:52] <BigPick> Afternoon all.
[00:53] <BigPick> I was recently able to make some headway on the update-manager memory errors people have been experiencing.
[00:54] <daskreech> :-)
[00:54] <BigPick> I have written a patch that solved the problem for me, and I am working with several others from the launchpad bug reports on eliminating all occurances.
[00:56]  * daskreech hugs BigPick 
[00:56] <BigPick> The errors are the result of several infinite loops, one of which I wrote the patch for.
[00:56] <BigPick> You can check out my current progress here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adept/+bug/154493
[00:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154493 in adept "Distribution Upgrade fails to complete -- Cannot allocate memory (dup-of: 107188)" [Undecided,In progress]
[00:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107188 in update-manager "[MASTER] [kde] Upgrade tool crashed with " Cannot allocate memory" (edgy -> feisty)" [High,Confirmed]
[00:57] <Rudd-X> jonathan?
[00:57] <Rudd-X> around?
[00:58] <BigPick> I would love to have some more people try out the patch and get back to me with the logs. So far most of this seems to be the result of the python 2.5 apt lib raising some unexpected Exceptions.
[00:58] <Rudd-X> hey anyone interested in watching a preliminary version of userconfig with users-admin secondary group goodness?
[01:00] <Rudd-O> oh, my, I would be interested
[01:00] <Rudd-X> sorry, you don't get to be interested, punk
[01:19] <daskreech> nixternal: There seems to be a lot of ubuntu installing going on by you
[01:21] <nixternal> I didn't install anything!
[01:22]  * daskreech bounces on nixternal's head
[01:22] <daskreech> I have pics!
[01:22] <nixternal> please don't...my head is in pain
[01:23] <daskreech> Awww
[01:23] <ajmitch> what trouble is nixternal causing now?
[01:23] <daskreech> need a kather?
[01:24]  * Jucato hides from nixternal
[01:26] <nixternal> I just took some more tylenol
[01:29] <daskreech> There is no Kiosk for KDE4?
[01:29] <daskreech> I thought someone was working on it
[01:30] <Jucato> nixternal: really sorry for not being there :(
[01:30]  * Jucato just woke up
[01:30] <nixternal> Jucato: that is alright...it was pretty good...myself and Riddell pretty much just listened to people...and answered their questions the best we could
[01:31] <Jucato> kool!
[01:31]  * Jucato has to see the logs...
[01:31] <nixternal> I started to go with my prepared talk, but after watching the previous sessions, I seen there were a lot of questions, to the point they weren't all getting answered and were requested to go to another IRC channel or an email list
[01:31] <nixternal> so JR and I stayed in for about 1.5 hours just answering questions
[01:31] <daskreech> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekgutsy/Kubuntu1
[01:31] <Jucato> oh...
[01:32] <daskreech> They were really cool too :)
[01:32] <daskreech> I loved the flow
[01:32] <Jucato> aw.... I missed all the fun :(
[01:33] <Jucato> stupid sleep!
[01:33] <daskreech> Dam near died laughing at nixternal's finding out that kubuntu was in court
[01:33]  * begert_ agrees (oh hai, I am still here :P )
[01:33] <ryanakca> gj nixternal :)
[01:34]  * Jucato tries to gently shake nixternal's hand, trying to avoid shaking his head...
[01:34] <nixternal> hehe
[01:34] <nixternal> thanks
[01:35] <nixternal> ya, that tripped me out to hear Kubuntu booting up while sitting in a court room for jury duty
[01:35] <nixternal> funny thing is, it was myself and another lug member, he heard the Ubuntu sound and told me, I thought he was full of bs, but then the judge went quiet for a second and then I heard the Kubuntu sounds...I wanted to call for a recess, but that wasn't my job :)
[01:36] <Jucato> "< nixternal> If you are just learning a language, like I am with Python,"... you never mentioned you were learning Java or .NET too? :D
[01:36] <nixternal> I know Java
[01:36] <nixternal> .NET I am not learning
[01:36] <Jucato> ah
[01:36] <nixternal> I took a few classes, that's it...I quickly removed it from my memory though :)
[01:36] <Jucato> oh.. you unlearned :)
[01:37] <nixternal> I think I did
[01:37] <nixternal> although I can still make sense of c# code
[01:37] <Jucato> tsk tsk :D
[01:38] <nixternal> I am gonna go chill for a minute and see if this head ache goes away
[01:38] <nixternal> back in a few
[01:39] <ryanakca> hmm... would this be a apt:/ kio/KDE thing, and anybody feel like taking a shot at answering? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apturl/+question/15986
[01:39] <Rudd-X> hey nixternal
[01:39] <Rudd-X> when you come back
[01:40] <Rudd-X> ping me and I'll send you the userconfig script I've been working on
[01:40] <daskreech> Jucato: c# isn't that hard to make sense of :)
[01:41] <Jucato> I don't even want to know :)
[01:41] <daskreech> tsk tsk
[01:41] <daskreech>  Know thy enemy?
[01:41] <Jucato> one language at a time is enough for me
[01:42] <begert_> what language is your focus jucato?
[01:43] <Jucato> C++ -> Qt ->KDE
[01:43] <begert_> cool
[01:43] <Jucato> now if I can only get myself to really focus :D
[01:46] <BigPick> Java, C, assembly, python
[01:46] <BigPick> I refuse to learn C++
[01:47] <BigPick> So anybody had a chance to try that upgrade-manager patch?
[01:47] <begert_> I do C++ at my work, but mostly learned VHDL in school (which I have been slowly forgetting for over a year now)
[01:49] <Rudd-X> hey jucato
[01:49] <Rudd-X> anyone up for testing a new version of userconfig I have here?
[01:51] <BigPick> Sure, but I don't know how valuable the input from a peon like me will be.
[01:51] <Rudd-X> oh, extremely valuable
[01:51] <Rudd-X> where can I send the file to ya?
[01:52] <BigPick> wpickard@du.edu
[01:57] <BigPick> Allright, I'm gonna run the patched update-manager against my two sandbox towers. I have em both setup with default feisty installs.
[01:57] <BigPick> Cross your fingers.
[01:58] <Rudd-X> (Y)
[01:58] <Rudd-X> oooooooooh
[01:58] <Rudd-X> good luck
[01:58] <Rudd-X> I'm sending you userconfig now
[01:59] <begert_> 2 sandox towers....nice
[01:59] <begert_> *sandbox
[01:59] <BigPick> 2 old dells that I scavanged.
[01:59] <BigPick> I collect old computer parts.
[01:59] <BigPick> Ones a PIII, the other is a P4.
[02:00] <begert_> nice, I have an old computer (at least all the parts) I just need a case and a PS
[02:00] <BigPick> I'm not gonna run it against my '98 sony VAIO with a PII coppermine.
[02:00] <BigPick> Thats running my firewall atm :)
[02:01] <Rudd-X> heh, I collect used cigarrette boxes.  I biet your hobby is MUCH more useful than mine.
[02:01] <Rudd-X> :-)
[02:01] <Rudd-X> I just sent you an email with the attached file
[02:01] <Rudd-X> thanks for pitching in!
[02:01] <BigPick> Meh, not really.
[02:01] <BigPick> Anything I can do to help.
[02:02] <BigPick> Its gonna take a sec for me to get it. My University's email is a piece.
[02:02] <Rudd-X> (Y)
[02:02] <Rudd-X> I sent it to jriddell.org
[02:02] <Rudd-X> jr at...
[02:08] <begert_> so if I wanted to get my feet wet in some kubuntu dev goodness, where is a good place to start?  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu?
[02:08] <Rudd-X> ubuntu really needs a janitorial job list list
[02:09] <Rudd-X> I already pitched in with some of userconfig
[02:09] <daskreech> begert_: good place to start
[02:09] <daskreech>  and hang out here
[02:09] <daskreech>  Hobbsee will poke you with a stick
[02:10] <begert_> I figured hanging out here would be a good place to start
[02:13] <nosrednaekim> begert_: thats how I started
[02:13] <nosrednaekim> begert_: doing user support in #kubuntu is also highly appreciated
[02:14] <begert_> can do what I can
[02:15] <begert_> been using kubuntu for about a year on and off, but don't know much more than the basics (for now)
[02:15] <BigPick> Begert, you and I are in the same boat man, just getting our feet wet.
[02:16] <BigPick> Hey Rudd, this looks awesome so far.
[02:16] <BigPick> I haven't really tried breaking it yet but it does work as expected.
[02:16] <nosrednaekim> begert_: you leran alot in #kubuntu.... Jucato is teh master ;)
[02:17] <begert_> noted
[02:17] <BigPick> This has been one of by biggest pet peeves with our user managment system. I love the new groups tab.
[02:17] <Rudd-X> thanks :-)
[02:18] <Rudd-X> thanks you have NO IDEA how great I feel just reading that!
[02:18] <BigPick> Nah man I do. I feel ya. Its why we do open source :)
[02:18] <Rudd-X> now, there are a few mongrels roaming around that code, esp. in the "primary group vs. secondary groups" department
[02:18] <Rudd-X> but I marked up carefully the parts of the source where the fixes should be applied as FIXMEs
[02:19] <Rudd-X> wel not where they should be applied, but it's got something to do with it :-)
[02:19] <BigPick> I liked that differentiation though. Those descriptive names are gonna help newcomers out alot.
[02:19] <Rudd-X> oh yeah
[02:19] <Rudd-X> I think it's a bit better than the ubuntu users-admin tool
[02:20] <BigPick> I know when I was switching over from NT I was so lost on the Unix groups thing.
[02:20] <Rudd-X> but we need to get the list of "privileges" more complete than it is right now its only a showcase
[02:20] <BigPick> Still am.
[02:20] <BigPick> Yeah I noticed that, and we need to make sure the descriptions aren't misleading.
[02:20] <Rudd-X> oh I should warn you, I coded that drunk
[02:20] <Rudd-X> hahaha
[02:20] <Rudd-X> but I tested it on my own user account
[02:20] <Rudd-X> if anything goes wrong, python will just except on the console and refuse to do stupid stuff
[02:21] <Rudd-X> thats what I looooooove about python: it's got so many batteries included, drunken codign is no problem
[02:21]  * Jucato is not a master
[02:21] <BigPick> Well its working flawlessly so far. God bless scripted languages.
[02:21] <Rudd-X> come on Jucato leave modesty aside
[02:21] <nosrednaekim> Jucato is also humble...
[02:21] <Jucato> yes I am :P
[02:21] <Rudd-X> yeah I just did sudo chown rudd-o /usr/bin/userconfig ; kwrite /usr/bin/userconfig
[02:21] <nosrednaekim> all hail python!
[02:21] <Rudd-X> HAIL THE SNAKE!
[02:22] <BigPick> There are things I can't stand about python though. As far as aesthetics go, I'm a Java guy.
[02:22] <nosrednaekim> lol
[02:22] <Rudd-X> aesthetics?  what, do you like braces?
[02:22] <Rudd-X> come on you gotta be kiddin' me :-)
[02:22] <BigPick> You bet :)
[02:22] <Rudd-X> I'm a brace-free man
[02:22] <BigPick> I like me semicolons and stuff.
[02:22] <BigPick> I'm dislexic adhd, it keeps me honest.
[02:22] <Rudd-X> I hate them
[02:23] <Rudd-X> braces and semicolons are an invention of the devil
[02:23] <Rudd-X> especially on latin american keyboards
[02:23] <Rudd-X> I have to contort my fingers to make them pop onscreen
[02:23] <BigPick> But python rules with how it handles lists and such.
[02:23] <BigPick> But your talking to a guy who loves to use MASM and LASM whenever I can :)
[02:24] <BigPick> I'm a little more than slightly wrong in the head.
[02:24] <Rudd-X> GODDAMNIT amarok died AGAIN
[02:24] <Rudd-X> amarok+pulse = not a good combo
[02:24] <Rudd-X> and I was on a roll wit the music here!
[02:25] <BigPick> Ewww... <3 @ Amarok!
[02:25] <Rudd-X> no, it doesn't need <3.  IT needs a cluestick.
[02:25] <BigPick> Amarok is my favorite music player of all time hands down.
[02:25] <Rudd-X> oh that's absolutely unarguable
[02:25] <Rudd-X> it's mine too
[02:26] <Rudd-X> but lately it's been less than cooperative over here
[02:26] <daskreech> Rudd-X: The snake?
[02:26] <Rudd-X> snake = python
[02:27] <Rudd-X> I miss /disrok on Xchat
[02:27] <Rudd-X> I'm just booting Windows right now to produce a new mixdown
[02:27] <BigPick> So what is the status with the Adept "Version Upgrade" button. Was it removed because of severe suckage?
[02:27] <Rudd-X> adept DIES
[02:28] <Rudd-X> it really DIES quite often
[02:28] <Rudd-X> and it dies on critical stages
[02:28] <BigPick> Don't get me started.
[02:28] <Rudd-X> it's been more than ten dpkg-reconfigures over here thanks to adept
[02:28] <BigPick> I think its abhorent how slow it is to index and search.
[02:28] <Rudd-X> I think adept needs a good old binary search
[02:28] <Rudd-X> but it has the same klistview problem amarok has
[02:29] <BigPick> If it can't do it in Nlogn is doing something way wrong.
[02:29] <Rudd-X> when a list is long, it takes AGES to fitler
[02:29] <Rudd-X> it's not doing it ologn
[02:29] <Rudd-X> because klistview is not model view controller
[02:29] <Rudd-X> it's just impossible
[02:29] <Rudd-X> that is one thing the GTK devs got RIGHT
[02:29] <BigPick> Shit.
[02:29] <Rudd-X> (well they've gotten MANY things right, if sulphur doesn't rain down on me after recognizing it)
[02:30] <BigPick> But seriously neither of my sandboxes have show the "Version Upgrade" button in adept.
[02:30] <daskreech> BigPick: Most really powerful things on Linux take a while to get into
[02:30] <Rudd-X> you should really just dist-upgrade on the command line
[02:30] <Rudd-X> much more control
[02:30] <BigPick> Doesn't matter since I'm downloading it manually.
[02:30] <daskreech> BigPick: I'm still soaking in iptables
[02:30] <Rudd-X> daskreech: I have the impression BigPick is really on top of things
[02:30] <Rudd-X> iptables?  :-)
[02:31] <Rudd-X> I come from the ipfwadm age
[02:31] <Rudd-X> through IPchains
[02:32] <BigPick> pfft pf > iptables
[02:32] <daskreech> Rudd-X: Python isn't a snake :)
[02:33] <BigPick> I would dist-upgrade if I wasn't trying to patch upgrade manager.
[02:33] <Rudd-X> a python is a snake, isn't it?
[02:33] <Rudd-X> oic
[02:33] <BigPick> wait what... Python is a snake... I think...
[02:34] <Rudd-X> I'm mixing down a 3 hour mix set using nuendo under windows XP under Linux on a headless machine connected through Ethernet displaying through VNC watching it go down through KRDC
[02:34] <Rudd-X> it's kind of contorted
[02:34] <Rudd-X> but it's the only way I'll get the mixdown going
[02:34] <BigPick> Wow... holy crap.
[02:35] <Rudd-X> screenie?
[02:35] <BigPick> Oh hey, can I add something to our wishlist while we are on the subject of media?
[02:35] <daskreech> Python is named after Monty Python :)
[02:35] <Rudd-X> lemme paste a link
[02:35] <Rudd-X> wishlist? sure
[02:35] <BigPick> Can we shoot mplayer?
[02:35] <Rudd-X> (daskreech: granted but the icon is a snake)
[02:36] <Rudd-X> http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/10/20/solving-choppy-sound-and-audio-stutter-in-vmware/windows-xp-on-vmware-on-linux-in-a-headless-machine-through-xrealvnc-displayed-through-krdc/
[02:36] <daskreech> I know I think that's really stupid :)
[02:36] <BigPick> Shoot mplayer and possibly stop sucking at all things streaming media?
[02:36] <daskreech> BigPick: What does that have to do with mplayer?
[02:36] <daskreech> Argh
[02:36] <daskreech>  KDE
[02:36] <Rudd-X> mplayer is REALLY REALLY POOR quality
[02:36] <BigPick> Exactly.
[02:36] <daskreech> Yeah but it's none KDE
[02:36] <Rudd-X> it plays ALL media formats... just as long as the moon is full, and everything is just right
[02:37] <BigPick> Mplayer is the only damned thing I can get to stream.
[02:37] <Rudd-X> it doens't work well with Pulse
[02:37] <BigPick> that screenshot is just epic
[02:37] <Rudd-X> it either segvs or aborts or sigills when you drag an icon to it
[02:37] <Rudd-X> thanks BigPick  :-)
[02:39] <BigPick> Kinda reminds me of that Megadeth song. "Sweating Bullets"
[02:39] <Rudd-X> in which sense?
[02:39] <Rudd-X> I never heard that song
[02:39] <BigPick> Hello me... Meet the real me
[02:40] <Rudd-X> ?
[02:40] <Rudd-X> I need a little more context here :-D
[02:40] <BigPick> Well, me... it's nice talking to myselfA credit to dementiaSome day you too will know my painAnd smile its blacktooth grinIf the war inside my headWon't take a day off I'll be deadMy icy fingers claw your backHere I come again
[02:40] <BigPick> Lyrics
[02:41] <BigPick> The sceenshot just reminded me of thos lyrics is all :)
[02:41] <Rudd-X> OIC
[02:41] <Rudd-X> I definitely didn't want to go to windows to do the job, but the truth is Ardour is just crappy when compared to Nuendo
[02:41] <Rudd-X> nuendo is so much better
[02:42] <Rudd-X> even though ardour has a much better stretch tool (GUI-wuise) the stretchtool in nuendo is superior in quality (MPEX) and it's annoyoing how the keyboard combos in ardour are almost unlearnable
[02:43] <Rudd-X> I honestly tried, you don't know how hard, to make a long mix in Ardour... but it's futile, nuendo is so much better
[02:43] <BigPick> I love audacity. But I do alot of technical signal processing.
[02:43] <Rudd-X> Audacity is cool but it won't work with Pulse.
[02:43] <BigPick> Maybe the problem here is pulse.
[02:43] <Rudd-X> Besides it's too simple, I need a multitrack mixer for what I do, and audacity is not it.
[02:43] <Rudd-X> actually the last time I ran ardour I ran it directly on the machien with the soundcard
[02:44] <Rudd-X> I wish Audacity worked with pulse though, it woudl make quick audio edits painless for me
[02:44] <Rudd-X> but audacity just won't cut it for a three-hour mix set
[02:44] <Rudd-X> hey, wanna listen?
[02:44] <Rudd-X> http://rudd-o.com/wp-content/uploads/mixdown.mp3
[02:44] <Rudd-X> sorry
[02:44] <Rudd-X> wrong url
[02:44] <Rudd-X> http://rudd-o.com/wp-content/uploads/audio/mixdown.mp3
[02:44] <Rudd-X> that's the url
[02:44] <BigPick> sure, lemme fire it up.
[02:45] <BigPick> What genre is it?
[02:45] <Rudd-X> xmms plays it up just fine
[02:45] <Rudd-X> it's mostly dance
[02:45] <Rudd-X> DAMN wrong url again
[02:45] <Rudd-X> http://rudd-o.com/wp-content/uploads/audio/tmp-mixdown.mp3
[02:45] <Rudd-X> I love that xmms lets me scroll in time even in HTTP resources
[02:45] <Rudd-X> sorry audacious
[02:46] <Rudd-X> but apparently that feture is now broken in gutsy
[02:46] <BigPick> Uh huh... I'm not really sure what this is... but okay...
[02:47] <Rudd-X> it begins with slow reggae dance and it ends in club dance
[02:47] <Rudd-X> goes thru all the genres
[02:47] <Rudd-X> it's 70 tracks
[02:47] <Rudd-X> but since you mentioned Megadeth, I highly doubt you'll like it
[02:47] <BigPick> sweet. Nah, its good... but yeah I'm a huge metal head.
[02:48] <Rudd-X> feel free to dl it
[02:48] <BigPick> Oh I'm having amarok stream it as we speak.
[02:48] <Rudd-X> it's an earlier edition, I'm mixing down a new one which has a few more tracks and removes some tracks that just didn't fit properly there
[02:48] <Rudd-X> amarok!  amarok rules :-)  We have a love-hate relationship here.  I'm actually listening to it too right now with amarok.
[02:48] <BigPick> Riga ding dong! Diggy diggy do!
[02:49] <Rudd-X> hahahaa that song's not exactly brainy in the lyrics department
[02:49] <Rudd-X> "I'm a fat dog!"
[02:49] <BigPick> Hey, I can't usually understand a damn work my death metal bands sing so its all god.
[02:49] <BigPick> Black metal: I don't even wanna know.
[02:50] <Rudd-X> (Y) lol
[02:51] <BigPick> HAHA "You better fucking understand!" Didn't expect that.
[02:52] <Rudd-X> me neither the first time I listened to that song, it's kind of a too "sweet" song to have that phrase pop up!
[02:54] <BigPick> From the mouth of an angel comes...
[02:54] <daskreech> Rudd-X: #amarok.radio ?
[02:54] <Rudd-X> oh indeed, cascada's singer is an angel
[02:54] <Rudd-X> daskreech: not really
[02:55] <Rudd-X> http://rudd-o.com/wp-content/uploads/audio/tmp-mixdown.mp3
[02:55] <Rudd-X> you can stream it
[02:55] <Rudd-X> but since gutsy I haven't been able to use either xmms or audacious to skip in the file
[02:55] <daskreech> Rudd-X: No I'm saying do you want a spot on the radio station?
[02:56] <Rudd-X> I heard that it only allowed for free as in freedom music to be streamed
[02:56] <Rudd-X> and I have none of that :-(
[02:56] <Rudd-X> but if it came down to good dance free music, I don't see why not
[02:57] <Rudd-X> what are the reqs?
[02:59] <Rudd-O> /notice daSkreech still there?
[02:59] <Rudd-X> goddammnit
[02:59] <Rudd-X> it doesnt work in kopete
[03:00] <daskreech> Ha ha
[03:00] <daskreech> what was the xchat one you missed?
[03:00] <Rudd-X>  disrok
[03:00] <Rudd-X> an alias that showed what I was listening to in th echannel
[03:00] <Rudd-X> no longer available in kovnersation or kopete
[03:00] <Rudd-X> this is konversation
[03:00] <Rudd-O> and this is kopete
[03:01] <daskreech> Rudd-X: try /media
[03:01]  * Rudd-X is listening to Mix down by Rudd-O on Tentative new mix [Amarok]
[03:01] <Rudd-X> OHHHHHHHHHHHH
[03:01] <daskreech> Either I think
[03:01] <Rudd-X> (Y) deeply thank you
[03:02] <daskreech> In  kopete you can have it announce everytime the track changes
[03:02] <Rudd-X> that would be annoying
[03:02] <daskreech>  nice if you wanna get banned quick
[03:02] <Rudd-X> bu since this track is not gonna change for about 2:30 hours.... that wouldn't be a problem right now
[03:03] <daskreech> Or banned slow :)
[03:03] <Rudd-X> rofl
[03:05] <BigPick> Kopete has been giving me a ton of sas recently.
[03:05] <BigPick> Mostly with IRC channels.
[03:05] <Rudd-X> sas?
[03:05] <Rudd-X> what's sas?
[03:05] <BigPick> You know sas, being uppity.
[03:05] <Rudd-X> ohghhhh
[03:05] <Rudd-X> well kopete isn't my choice for IRC
[03:05] <BigPick> Thing your grandma smaked you around for
[03:05] <Rudd-X> it's too... kopetey
[03:06] <BigPick> Yeah, I'm not likeing it much.
[03:06] <BigPick> What are you using for irc?
[03:06] <Rudd-X> plus I get to listen to real conversations with festival on konversation, while on kopete it's futile
[03:06] <daskreech> sass
[03:06]  * daskreech reserves right to hate Kopete
[03:07] <Rudd-X> rofl
[03:07] <Rudd-X> sass!!!  that's the word!
[03:07] <BigPick> sass ... I can't spell worth a damn
[03:07] <BigPick> konversation you say...
[03:07] <Rudd-X> ok I'm officially on my third beer
[03:07] <BigPick> I can tell.
[03:08] <Rudd-X> konvo rules because I can have a qt to text plugin plugged in on kttsd and it speaks
[03:08] <Rudd-X> I don't need to stare at the skreen to keep tabs on my knovos
[03:08] <Rudd-X> konvos
[03:08] <Rudd-X> "bigpick says: konversation you say"
[03:08] <Rudd-X> I just bought a cepstral voice to go along with it
[03:08] <Rudd-X> it's a woman's voice so you'll all sound effeminate :-)
[03:08] <Rudd-X> rofl
[03:09] <Rudd-X> actually that was the best-quality voice in cepstral's library
[03:09] <Rudd-X> and it was only thirty bucks
[03:09]  * Hobbsee wondesr why this is not all in #kubuntu-offtopic
[03:09] <Rudd-X> hahhaa
[03:09] <Tm_T> I so agree
[03:09] <Rudd-X> worth it, now I can sleep through my support schedule and have the computer alert me when a gimp wants support
[03:09] <BigPick> Because he is on his third beer, thats why
[03:09] <Rudd-X> ok, that's true, why don't we talk #kubuntu-devel stuff?
[03:10] <daskreech> How do we get Adept to speed up searching ?
[03:10] <Rudd-X> the amarok devs have the answer
[03:10] <BigPick> Hash tables.
[03:10] <daskreech> oh Hobbsee  can you poke begert_  with a stick? :)
[03:10] <ScottK> Rewrite it from scratch or use apt whichever you find easier.
[03:10] <Rudd-X> they've been working hard on a playlist klistview thingie that works ologn
[03:11] <Hobbsee> daskreech: where?
[03:11] <daskreech> YEah I've been following the blogs with muted interest
[03:11] <BigPick> Anyone wanna help me test out this patch for the dist-upgrade scripts?
[03:11] <Rudd-X> because thousands of tracks on the playlist was really insane
[03:11] <daskreech> Hobbsee: Oh I didn't ask if there was a preference
[03:11] <daskreech> whereever new devs normally get it
[03:11] <Rudd-X> BigPick: I would but I need to take a peek at the patch and currently I have nothing to distupgrade now
[03:12] <BigPick> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/154493
[03:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154493 in adept "Distribution Upgrade fails to complete -- Cannot allocate memory (dup-of: 107188)" [Undecided,In progress]
[03:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 107188 in update-manager "[MASTER] [kde] Upgrade tool crashed with " Cannot allocate memory" (edgy -> feisty)" [High,Confirmed]
[03:12] <BigPick> When you feel like it. All info is there.
[03:12] <Rudd-X> thanks
[03:12] <Rudd-X> I'm going in
[03:15] <Rudd-X> that's ONE WEIRD bug
[03:15] <BigPick> Okay, I really have to take issue with strigi being included by default now.
[03:15] <daskreech> How much CPU is it using?
[03:15] <BigPick> Yeah, its taken me two days to find that little bit of the problem.
[03:16] <BigPick> Its not the cpu usage, I find the search function very difficult to use.
[03:16] <Rudd-X> it's not the CPU thing
[03:16] <Rudd-X> its the search thing
[03:16] <Rudd-X> and the fact that it completely swamps the disk queues
[03:16] <BigPick> Not having a standard gui is very off-putting.
[03:16] <Rudd-X> because for some reason it's SO FUCKING FAST that it doesn't bother to set the ioprio and sched to batch
[03:16] <Rudd-X> (sarcasm alert)
[03:16] <Rudd-X> two biggies
[03:17] <Rudd-X> 1) it doesn't set itself to batch neither in the io dept. nor in the sched dept.
[03:17] <Rudd-X> 2) it doesn't use posix_fadvise and posix_madvise to alert the kernel that we DO NOT WANT the files it just indexed in the CACHE!
[03:17] <BigPick> Well, there is no doubt that once it has created the index, the serched are very fast, but the searches aren't effective.
[03:17] <Rudd-X> oh and of course the searches aren't very effective thats true
[03:17] <Rudd-X> and it lacks a decent user interface a la Beagle BEST
[03:18] <Rudd-X> and it doesn't search among kmail and stuff
[03:18] <Rudd-X> it's only in the filespace
[03:18] <BigPick> Well, some of the filespace, if I need to search outside my own home directory forget it.
[03:18] <Rudd-X> I saw a talk at Google through google video, very intersting, everyone was hailing how fast strigi was, but strigi is so behind in features ...
[03:18] <Rudd-X> BigPick: yes it just won't let itself configure to search /usr/share/doc or /home/shared for example, UNLESS you edit the config file by hand
[03:19] <daskreech> How are you Hobbsee ?
[03:19] <BigPick> From a programer's point of view strigi is awsome, it uses all of the statistically superior algorithms available, but from a user point of view it is a bear.
[03:20] <Rudd-X> FUCKFUCKFUCK someone set the oven to OFF
[03:20] <Rudd-X> BigPick: fully agreed
[03:20] <Hobbsee> daskreech: good, dealing with bugs, and wondering who these people are
[03:20] <BigPick> Me, I'm a peon just a bug.
[03:21] <BigPick> Ignore me, I'm shutting up.
[03:21] <Rudd-X> Hobbsee: hi there
[03:21] <Rudd-X> we're just friendly neighborhood spidercoders
[03:22] <Jucato> Hobbsee: budding new volunteers to make your day :)
[03:22] <Hobbsee> Jucato: fair enough :)
[03:22] <Rudd-X> Hobbsee: would you test a new version of userconfig I wrote?
[03:22] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: we're here to make your life fun & exciting
[03:22] <BigPick> I was testing Rudds new userconfig, which was awesome.
[03:23] <Rudd-X> oh it wasn't awesome it only has one small change
[03:23] <BigPick> And I'm just looking for more input on the dist-upgrade memory errors.
[03:23] <Rudd-X> BigPick: you know what might help? valgrind
[03:23] <Rudd-X> maybe you can valgrind the process
[03:23] <Rudd-X> it woud for SURE be as slow as nothing you've ever exprienced
[03:24] <Rudd-X> but it would tell you for sure where th eleak is
[03:25] <BigPick> True, but so far I have identified at least two leak sources. I plugged the first one and now the others are cropping up.
[03:25] <Rudd-X> hahhaa they're equal opportunity leaks
[03:25] <daskreech> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekgutsy/Kubuntu1 might help
[03:26] <Hobbsee> daskreech: ah yes, i forgot that was on
[03:27]  * Rudd-X serves 2 slices of meatlovers pizza
[03:27] <Rudd-X> yum!
[03:27] <Rudd-X> (and not precisely the package manager)
[03:28] <daskreech> !botsnack
[03:28] <ubotu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
[03:28] <Rudd-X> that just cracked me up!
[03:28] <Rudd-X> hahha
[03:31] <daskreech> Hey jjesse
[03:31] <jjesse> hello daskreech
[03:32] <Hobbsee> bug 154771
[03:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154771 in update-manager "Kubuntu 7.10 Upgrading to Kubuntu 7.10 and after gives error and says Distribution is Up To Date" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154771
[03:34] <BigPick> Wait... why is upgrading itself?
[03:35] <claydoh> did't that one get fixed (in proposed)
[03:35] <Hobbsee> no idea
[03:35] <ScottK> Because there's no need to run the upgrader when you're already runny the new release.
[03:35] <BigPick> I experinced the error where adept would still show the "Version Upgrade" button even after a successful upgrade but this seemes odd.
[03:35]  * ScottK assumes it kicks in to get from the -devel release to the released release.
[03:36] <BigPick> Well the descriptions are vague. Everyone is confirming the bug no one explains what initiates the update.
[03:36] <claydoh> it was happening to me untill today's updates, devel user here
[03:36] <jjesse> man i love my slingbox
[03:39] <daskreech> ScottK: yeah but people who have had "issues" upgrading are worried they still haven't upgraded
[03:40] <Rudd-X> well, I'm heading off
[03:41] <Rudd-X> and before doing that, I'm gonna post a bug report + the file of userconfig
[03:41] <BigPick> Well in my case, thanks to the upgrader crashing, it left my box unbootable.
[03:41] <ScottK> daskreech: Understand.
[03:41] <ScottK> But I don't see any SRU criteria such a change would meet.
[03:41] <BigPick> So for me it was a legit worry when I saw the upgrade button come up again.
[03:43] <BigPick> ScottK: In some instances the updater did not cleanly exit after detecting no updates.
[03:43]  * daskreech sighs as people keep pointing out I read the title of the post, then skipped the body and hit the question at the end. Why? Because I have no idea what Uncharted is. So to answer the question at the end...
[03:44] <daskreech> http://blog.nixternal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/kde4.png
[03:44] <daskreech> Wrong clipboard
[03:44] <ScottK> BigPick: A crash can be fixed, I think, no question, but an extra notification doesn't qualify, IMO.
[03:46] <BigPick> ScottK: I have found it very frustrating how this upgrade problem keeps getting bounced back and forth between the adept and update-manager projects. I just want this danged thing to work properly for people.
[03:46] <ScottK> Understand.
[03:47] <ScottK> The trick is to make sure we don't make it worse.
[03:48] <Rudd-X> cya gents!
[03:48] <BigPick> Understood, but at this point the entire process is fubared. When we are having to tell people to just go to the command line and run a manual upgrade, that is defeating the entire purpose set out for including these upgrade tools.
[03:51] <BigPick> As it stands, the button remaining even after the upgrade is confusing to the end user. The entire point of adding it was to make it less confusing for the end-user to upgrade.
[03:51] <ScottK> Well that might add up to "a significant regression", so maybe if a reasonable fix were developed it would qualify.  When I said changing the extra notification wouldn't qualify, it was for what is essentially a cosmetic issue.
[03:53] <BigPick> I see. I apologize, this entire ordeal has my blood boiling.
[03:53] <ScottK> I can certainly understand being frustrated.
[03:53] <Hobbsee>  /me wishes people would look in the required code, and fix it, rather than whining hwo it doesnt work.
[03:53]  * Hobbsee thinks that'd be quicker.
[03:54] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Does restarting the auto-sunc tool fall within your archive admin powers?
[03:54] <ScottK> sunc/sync
[03:54] <Hobbsee> ScottK: nope.
[03:54] <daskreech> I normally start whining when I'm tired or when the Philosphy of the project prevents it
[03:54] <Hobbsee> ScottK: that'll require drescher access.
[03:55] <ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.  Thanks.  I guess I'll wait for tomorrow.  There's a package I need to bugfix that didn't quite make it before auto-sync got tired and went to sleep.
[03:55] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:55] <Hobbsee> poor autosync.  feed it coffee.
[03:56] <ScottK> Please see 'that'll require drescher access.'
[03:56] <BigPick> Hobbsee: I have been looking at the code for two days and submitted one partial patch, as insignificant as it may be.
[03:56] <ScottK> ;-)
[03:56] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:57] <ScottK> BigPick: If it gives you any idea where we are on this, we got a fix into Feisty after the Gutsy Beta (maybe even after RC) that made it so every single upgrade on machines with less than ~ 1.5gb swap didn't fail.
[03:58] <ScottK> It's, um complex.
[03:59] <BigPick> I'm well aware. If it was simple I wouldn't have two tower constantly running through the Feisty->Gusty update process to try and diagnose this.
[04:01] <BigPick> Sandbox tower 2 is 18 minutes away from completing its 3rd upgrade attempt using my fourth patch. Cross your fingers.
[04:03] <ScottK> X
[04:04] <BigPick> This problem brassed me off after it corrupted my install on my laptop. First time I have been motivated to contribute to Kubuntu development.
[04:05] <Hobbsee> hm, how do i add a user to a group again?
[04:06] <jjesse> trhough system settings?
[04:06] <Hobbsee> i'm on gnome
[04:06] <jjesse> d'oh
[04:06] <Hobbsee> there's a command line way to do it
[04:06] <Jucato> System -> Administration -> Users ?
[04:07] <Jucato> adduser username group?
[04:07] <Hobbsee> ah, is that it?
[04:07] <ScottK> Hobbsee: You can also just edit /etc/group
[04:07] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i tried that.  no dice.
[04:07] <ScottK> Hmmm
[04:07] <ScottK> OK
[04:07] <Hobbsee> oh, i need to log out again afterwards, dont i?
[04:07] <Jucato> yes
[04:07] <Jucato> annoying ain't it? :P
[04:08] <daskreech> To get a new group? yeah
[04:08] <daskreech> Anyone used the SF wiki?
[04:09] <Hobbsee> yup.  got it
[04:11] <Jucato> what got it?
[04:11] <daskreech> New group
[04:11] <Hobbsee> yep
[04:11] <Jucato> ah
[04:11] <BigPick> Just for future reference, you can add an existing user to an existing group on the command line by "adduser USER GROUP"
[04:11] <Hobbsee> thanks
[04:11] <Jucato> [11:07] <Jucato> adduser username group?
[04:11] <Jucato> >:)
[04:12] <BigPick> Oh yeah, didn't see that LMAO
[04:12] <BigPick> DOH! Too slow!
[04:13] <daskreech> If it can be done it can probably be done on the command line
[04:13] <daskreech> by a small shell script :)
[04:13] <BigPick> Brb, switching to konversation...
[04:15] <BigPick> Ah, much better.
[04:15] <daskreech> much
[04:24]  * daskreech should sign back into KDE
[04:24] <BigPick> Wow, Tower 2 is almost complete and system guard shows physical memory usage pegged
[04:25] <BigPick> Pegged in a good way that is, it has remained at a constant 90% of physical memory and 1% of swap with 70% cpu usage
[04:26] <BigPick> even got youtube and amarok running in the background.
[04:37] <edenbeast> hi I'd like to report https://bugs.launchpad.net/kubuntu-7/+bug/104722 --> /usr/bin/esd is in esound not esound-common(so this can probably be closed?), I would comment on it in launchpad but I've been waiting for over an hour and still don't have my login. Anyway, thanks a lot. :-)
[04:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 104722 in kubuntu-7 "Cannot find /usr/bin/esd" [Undecided,New]
[05:19] <BigPick> I am pleased to announce that Tower 2 successfully completed the dis-upgrade.py script without error for the first time.
[05:26] <BigPick> If these results can be replicated with other users, how should I got about attempting to get this patch pushed?
[05:34] <Hobbsee> sounds good
[05:50] <BigPick> Well, that didn't really answer my question, but its good to have your support :)
[05:56] <BigPick> Allright, I'm going to bed. See you all later.
[06:01] <mhb> good morning
[06:04] <Hobbsee> heya mhb!
[06:05] <Jucato> eek!
[06:05]  * Jucato runs for his life
[06:06] <mhb> Jucato: I don't really plan to murder you :o)
[06:06] <Jucato> not yet?
[06:06] <Jucato> oh ok
[06:06] <mhb> Jucato: but if packagekit turns out to be even slower than YaST package manager then I might change my mind :o)
[06:07] <Jucato> oh great... I keep on forgetting to try out suse 10.3...
[06:07] <Jucato> I need to pry myself from the desktop for a week
[07:09] <nixternal> Jucato: let me spare you the suse 10.3 details...it is by far their best release yet...totally impressed
[07:09] <Jucato> nixternal: ooh :)
[07:10] <nixternal> it was very responsive and fast on my machine, in which I tried 10.2 and 10.1
[07:10] <n8k99> would you recommend it over vista? :P
[07:11]  * n8k99 runs and hides behind the pumpkin patch
[07:11] <Jucato> I just got around to booting it up. it was quite fast. and kate... started fast too :D
[07:11] <mhb> fast as in?
[07:11] <mhb> faster than kubuntu?
[07:12] <mhb> nixternal: thanks for mentioning me back there in the openweek session, I was flattered :o)
[07:12] <Jucato> (yes? :P)
[07:13] <nixternal> mhb: totally deserved it!
[07:13] <nixternal> superdev is your new nickname
[07:13] <Jucato> :D
[07:16] <mhb> thanks
[07:16] <mhb> well you should be the public face of kubuntu :o)
[07:16] <Jucato> it's the flattering hour :)
[07:16] <Jucato> nixternal: you really rock you now that? :)
[07:16] <Jucato> mhb: you rock too! (so don't kill me just yet)
[07:17] <mhb> kudos to you for speaking at the openweek. Your talk was very nice and I hope it will bring some of the more active users over to devel.
[07:17] <Hobbsee> that'd be cool.  we need more devs.
[07:17] <nixternal> Jucato: I wish I did, but obviously not
[07:17] <nixternal> Hobbsee: Riddell and I had future devs foaming at the mouth
[07:17] <nixternal> and we got some pretty good ideas too
[07:18] <nixternal> and then we smacked them with a KDE 4.0 LiveCD release for the holidays
[07:18] <nixternal> then they passed out
[07:18] <Jucato> hahah now you have to make sure of that :P
[07:18] <Hobbsee> nixternal: woot!
[07:18] <nixternal> jcastro: I do need to know what your response to "2nd class citizen" would have been
[07:19] <Jucato> someone asked that?
[07:19] <nixternal> actually no
[07:19] <nixternal> but Jorge was ready for them if they did
[07:19] <nixternal> I think we put any stop to the thought before it occurred though
[07:19] <Jucato> orly? >:)
[07:19] <nixternal> seeing as Kubuntu has had the largest rollouts of any *buntu distro
[07:19]  * Jucato has a devilish grin
[07:20] <nixternal> Canary Islands, Georgia, and the French Parliament
[07:20] <nixternal> oh, and my court house that runs Ubuntu and Kubuntu in their kiosks
[07:20] <Jucato> hehehe
[07:20] <Hobbsee> oh, someone should have asked.
[07:20] <Jucato> Hobbsee: it's not too late yet >:)
[07:20]  * Jucato has a devilish grin again
[07:20] <nixternal> I have been trying to get a speeding ticket so I can go and play with Kubuntu :)
[07:20] <Hobbsee> true dat.
[07:21]  * Jucato wished he was there :(
[07:21] <nixternal> towards the end, my head ache was kicking in
[07:22] <nixternal> Hobbsee: how goeth the schooling for you?
[07:23] <nixternal> mine has been insane..I will never take this many courses at once ever again
[07:23] <Hobbsee> nixternal: would be good if i had the motivation to actually do some work
[07:23] <nixternal> you and I both
[07:23] <Jucato> you and you and me both three
[07:23] <nixternal> lol
[07:23]  * Jucato didn't make any sense..
[07:23] <nixternal> Jucato: you going to school now?
[07:23] <nixternal> I know you were going to start
[07:24] <Jucato> I wish.. but they will only start accepting applications by feb :(
[07:24] <nixternal> ahh, that stinks
[07:24] <nixternal> you see the news of the wild fires in California?
[07:24] <Jucato> yeah... :(
[07:24] <nixternal> that is insane
[07:24]  * Jucato tries to relate the 2 subjects
[07:25] <nixternal> my aunt has lost both her house and her business
[07:25] <Jucato> aaah "stinks" and "insane"...
[07:25] <Jucato> oh that's bad :(
[07:25] <nixternal> I have the TV on and keep seeing it
[07:25] <nixternal> believe it or not, she is in high spirits as well as the others
[07:25] <nixternal> I seen some really neat stories tonight about the whole situation
[07:26] <mhb> wow, yast is Huge
[07:26] <nixternal> a huge pain in the arse
[07:27]  * Jucato still likes it though. the admin tool, not the frontend package manager
[07:27] <nixternal> you want to see a great setup tool, check out PCLOS
[07:27] <serzholino> Hi! Can anyone reproduce this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/restricted-manager/+bug/156559
[07:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156559 in restricted-manager "restricted-manager-kde control module fails to load" [Undecided,New]
[07:27] <nixternal> I do like their configuration setup
[07:28] <Jucato> nixternal: that's drakconf.. from mandriva...
[07:28] <nixternal> nice
[07:28] <Jucato> and it's GTK :D
[07:28] <nixternal> not so nice
[07:28] <Jucato> and I think it was a sort of "inspired from" YaST... (not sure really w/c came first)
[07:29] <Jucato> pclos isn't really that shy about using unconventional things to make users life easier (maybe?) apt-rpm, syanptic on KDE, drakconf...
[07:29] <mhb> serzholino: not here
[07:29] <nixternal> Jucato: and that is why I totally despise it as an OS
[07:29] <Jucato> :D
[07:29] <nixternal> users might as well just use Windows
[07:30] <nixternal> it looks like it, and runs like it
[07:30] <Jucato> at least they changed the logo now :D
[07:30]  * Jucato has a thing for distro artwork...
[07:30] <mhb> serzholino: well at least not on the real system
[07:30] <nixternal> serzholino: works fine here, just told me I need to load the restricted-modules
[07:30]  * nixternal hurries and removes this restricted crap
[07:31] <Jucato> heheh
[07:31] <mhb> yes, distro artwork is nice
[07:32] <nixternal> I also kind of like the PCLOS KMenu as well
[07:32] <nixternal> my only problem though, is I can't stand a ton of submenus
[07:32] <mhb> but it's problematic as well. If we use the default (think Oxygen or Tango) nobody would be able to diferentiate between Kubuntu and, say, Gentoo
[07:32] <serzholino> mhb: is your system upgraded form feisty?
[07:32] <nixternal> that is why I really like our menu...I go to internet, and all of the internet stuff is there
[07:33] <mhb> serzholino: it is, although I upgraded before restricted-manager was even created
[07:33] <nixternal> my system is upgraded from dapper, to edgy, to feisty, to gutsy, and in a couple of days to hardy
[07:33] <Jucato> nixternal: it only gets messy after installing a few dozen ups :)
[07:33] <Jucato> er.. apps :P
[07:34] <serzholino> two of my systems was initially installed as breezy :)
[07:34] <nixternal> ya, but people who usually install a few dozen apps, install a few dozen of the same thing with a different name
[07:34] <serzholino> and one as feisty
[07:34] <serzholino> and all 3 have this problem :(
[07:34] <nixternal> well I can say that I removed hoary for Mepis and breezy for Slackware
[07:35] <nixternal> or maybe I have that backwards
[07:35] <nixternal> I think I do
[07:35] <nixternal> serzholino: is restricted-manager the only one with that problem?
[07:35] <serzholino> I even tried creating new user, same thing
[07:35] <nixternal> how about user management
[07:35] <serzholino> nixternal: yes
[07:36] <serzholino> user management works ok
[07:36] <nixternal> hrmm, I have seen more than one having that issue before...it is just a config that was stuck and didn't get the update I think...we typically see that a lot during the dev cycles
[07:37] <serzholino> system config? how can i update it?
[07:37] <nixternal> Jucato: speaking of PCLOS. their top 4 devs jumped ship to work on Foresight KDE
[07:37] <Jucato> kool
[07:37] <nixternal> jtate, int, and I can't remember the other 2
[07:37]  * Jucato likes foresight's colors better than ubuntu's :P
[07:38] <nixternal> well it might be kool, but I asked Kevin Harris and Ken VanDeen about it, and told them that I hope it doesn't turn out like PCLOS..granted you will get the users, but you will kill Linux
[07:38] <nixternal> Ken said that he wouldn't let that happen
[07:38] <nixternal> and yes, the green is better than the brown, even though I am not a fan of either color
[07:39] <nixternal> nothing beats blooo
[07:39] <nixternal> oh well, sleep time
[07:39] <nixternal> k'nite
[07:39] <Jucato> :)
[07:39] <Jucato> k'night! :D
[07:39] <nixternal> hehe
[07:49] <serzholino> error is in this statement:
[07:50] <serzholino>         return (t,
[07:50] <serzholino>             # %(os)s stands for the OS name. Prefix it or suffix it,
[07:50] <serzholino>             #  but do not replace it.
[07:50] <serzholino>             _('Proprietary drivers do not have public source code that %(os)s '
[07:50] <serzholino>             'developers are free to modify. They represent a risk to you '
[07:50] <serzholino>             'because they are only available on the types of computer chosen by '
[07:50] <serzholino>             'the manufacturer, and security updates to them depend solely on the '
[07:50] <serzholino>             'responsiveness of the manufacturer. %(os)s cannot fix or improve '
[07:50] <serzholino>             'these drivers.') % {'os': get_os_name()}
[07:50] <serzholino>         )
[07:50] <serzholino> commenting out  "% {'os': get_os_name()}" helps
[07:51] <mhb> hmm, then the bug is in the get_os_name() function
[07:51] <mhb> the translation is harmless otherwise
[07:51] <mhb> perhaps it reports something strange on the Live CD... or do you experience it on your system, too?
[07:53] <serzholino> yes, on my system upgraded from feisty
[07:53] <serzholino> on liveCD all is ok
[07:53] <serzholino> but i didn't checked out console output
[07:54] <mhb> serzholino: I have a test script for you
[07:54] <serzholino> and i booted liveCd with english language, but on installed system i use Ukrainian language
[07:54] <serzholino> mhb: great :)
[07:54] <mhb> http://kubuntu.pastebin.ca/747653
[07:55] <mhb> tell me what it outputs
[07:55] <mhb> i get "Ubuntu"
[07:56] <mhb> but you may encounter the same error message you got with your bug
[07:56] <serzholino> hmm, replasing problem sataement to" _('%(a)s') % {'a': get_os_name()}" gives "Ubuntu" too
[07:56] <serzholino> maybe it is confised by "os" variable name?
[07:57] <mhb> so the test script returns "Ubuntu" ?
[07:57] <mhb> for you?
[07:58] <serzholino> yes
[07:58] <mhb> it is not confused by it on 99% systems, and I don't see a reason why it should be confused with it
[07:59] <serzholino> but change %(os)s to %(a)s fixes this problem
[07:59] <mhb> ValueError: unsupported format character ' ' (0x20) at index 103
[07:59] <mhb> that's the error
[07:59] <mhb> basically what it means is that it complains about a white space
[08:00] <mhb> but 0x20 is the "ordinary" white space Python normally doesn't care about at all
[08:01] <mhb> serzholino: I am happy that your problem is gone. However, I really don't see a reason why 'os' should work better or worse than 'a', that is not how the language should behave
[08:02] <mhb> serzholino: which means I'd be happy to fix it in the branch if I knew why does this happen, and I don't. What we obviously need here is better bug triage.
[08:02] <mhb> If we (the developers) cannot really reproduce it, we cannot be sure it's not a wild bug in Python or elsewhere that happens only on a certain machine
[08:03] <mhb> serzholino: could you do some testing for us? Please try to replace the 'a' that now works with 'os' back again and then maybe 'bah' or something longer
[08:03] <mhb> would that be possible?
[08:04] <mhb> I have to go now, sorry, but feel free to ping me here or respond to the bug, I am subscribed to all restricted manager bugs.
[08:13] <serzholino> mhb: replacing back to os desn't work
[08:13] <serzholino> gonna try to launch with different languages
[08:13] <serzholino> maybe this is translation rtelated
[08:17] <serzholino> mhb: anythins that starts with "os" gives error
[08:38] <_StefanS_> morning
[08:39] <Jucato> moin _StefanS_
[08:39] <_StefanS_> anyone else getting prompted for upgrading to final gutsy every time there's new updates in adept?
[08:39] <_StefanS_> kinda wierd
[08:39] <_StefanS_> happens on all my machines
[08:39] <Jucato> yep
[08:39] <_StefanS_> so its a known thing
[08:40] <Jucato> yes I think so. it's a bug :)
[08:40] <_StefanS_> oka
[08:42] <serzholino> mhb: The problem is in space before second %(os)s . Removing it heps. Launching systemsettings with english locale doesn't help
[08:43] <_StefanS_> Jucato: do you also have problems with kdmtheme?
[08:43] <Jucato> um.. I haven't upgraded my gutsy for 2 weeks :P
[08:43] <Jucato> well not 2 weeks...
[08:44] <_StefanS_> uhm ok
[08:44] <_StefanS_> a full upgrade is not really needed
[08:44] <Jucato> waiting for traffic to die and bug fixes to come :)
[08:44] <_StefanS_> just install kdmtheme and it
[08:52] <serzholino> mhb: Finally! The problem is locale related. When i changed my locale from uk_UA.UTF8 to en_US.UTF8, error has gone
[08:53] <serzholino> I'll write comment about this in bug
[08:57] <Hobbsee> !info gstreamer0.10-esd
[08:57] <ubotu> gstreamer0.10-esd: GStreamer plugin for ESD. In component main, is optional. Version 0.10.6-0ubuntu4 (gutsy), package size 39 kB, installed size 108 kB
[09:12] <serzholino> mhb: it's translation bug, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-uk-base/+bug/154214
[09:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154214 in language-pack-ru-base "Restricted Manager fails to start with Russian, Finnish or Japanese localization packs." [Undecided,Fix committed]
[09:21] <Tonio_> hi
[13:43] <Jucato> 4 hours of utter silence?
[13:43] <Jucato> (and I broke it :P)
[13:44] <mhb> Jucato: yeah, people mourn when I'm not around :o)
[13:44] <mhb> Jucato: are you still knee deep in opensuse?
[13:44] <jpatrick> mhb: sorry about last night, got kicked off net by dad
[13:44] <Jucato> really? why didn't I get that memo?  :)
[13:44] <Jucato> you two had a fight? and I missed it? dang!
[13:44] <Hobbsee> Jucato: sheesh, i wonder who will be the next person to look elsewhere
[13:45] <n8k99>   /me is downloading turbolinux
[13:45] <Jucato> haha I installed opensuse 10.3 2 weeks ago... I've only used it for a total of... um... 30 minutes spread about um.... 5 days?
[13:45] <n8k99> not really
[13:46] <mhb> jpatrick: no problem, I just didn't know what to do with the checkout .o)
[13:46] <Jucato> heh the other distro that made a deal w/ MS? and in Asia? :)
[13:46] <n8k99> yes
[13:46] <Jucato> poor East Asians...
[13:46] <jpatrick> mhb: since I upgraded to gutsy, it just won't do anything
[13:47] <n8k99> yes poor East Asians
[13:48]  * Jucato is (un)lucky to be Southeast :)
[13:48] <mhb> Jucato: so turbolinux is popular in your parts?
[13:48] <Jucato> not at all :)
[13:49] <mhb> I've never heard of it before the deal
[13:49] <Jucato> Linux is not popular in our parts at all... or at least not in our house :)
[13:49] <Jucato> I'e heard it before, a merger of 3 (east) Asian distros
[13:50] <mhb> SuSE is quite popular in our parts because Novell has a fairly large dev group in Czech Rep.
[13:50] <Riddell> I've been to those offices
[13:50] <mhb> I think Red Hat had some offices here, too. Alas, no ubuntu :o)
[13:50] <Jucato> we have our own distro here.. but it has an extremely small following... it's a distro made by a group from a government institution
[13:50] <n8k99> really?
[13:51] <Jucato> n8k99: who was that for?
[13:51] <n8k99> you Jucato
[13:51] <jpatrick> both :P
[13:51] <Jucato> http://www.bayanihan.gov.ph/
[13:51] <mhb> Riddell: nice. Too bad it's Novell (its way of representing OpenSUSE as something only enthusiasts would use is terrible), otherwise I'd be happy for supporting Czech Rep.
[13:51] <Jucato> it's Debian (Sarge) based...
[13:52] <Riddell> well I've been to the suse offices anyway, long before Novell came along
[13:52] <n8k99> who uses it? people in that governemtn agency?
[13:52] <Riddell> gave them a bottle of irn bru, they were a bit bemused by that
[13:53] <Jucato> n8k99: the ones who made it use it :)
[13:53] <Hobbsee> heh
[13:53] <Hobbsee> you and irn bru...
[13:53] <Hobbsee> which kde4 release is up next?
[13:53] <mhb> Riddell: hehe :o)
[13:53] <Riddell> Hobbsee: 4.0
[13:53] <Jucato> hm... one day I must taste that legendary irn bru...
[13:53] <Riddell> (platform)
[13:53] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[13:54] <Riddell> Jucato: I'll bring some to the next UDS
[13:54] <Jucato> ooh then I'll have to be there! :D
[13:54] <mhb> Riddell: when are you leaving for UDS?
[13:57] <mhb> aaand silence :o)
[13:57]  * mhb would be happy to have Jucato on the next UDS
[13:57] <mhb> provided you won't jump ship to OpenSUSE or similar :o)
[13:57]  * Jucato would be happy to have Jucato on *any* UDS... :(
[13:58]  * Tm_T would be happy to... sleep?
[13:58] <mhb> Tm_T: that can be arranged, at no cost even :o)
[13:58] <Tm_T> mhb: really?
[13:58] <Riddell> mhb: probably going to London tomorrow if I can find someone to stay with
[14:02] <mhb> it's going to be even gloomier here with Riddell offline
[14:02] <mhb> Riddell: thanks
[14:02] <mhb> Riddell: are we going to catch up even with what the Ubuntuers plan for Hardy?
[14:02] <mhb> What do they plan (I mean the big things), anyway?
[14:05] <Riddell> mhb: that's the hope, it's why I'm subscribed to the relevant desktop BoFs at UDS
[14:05] <Riddell> see the schedule for details
[14:09] <mhb> okay
[14:09] <mhb> I will
[14:28] <Riddell> nixternal_: did you manage to make documentation ready for kubuntu.org?
[14:28] <Riddell> hi phnom
[14:28] <phnom> Riddell: heya
[15:05] <jjesse> hello
[15:06] <Jucato> morning jjesse!
[15:15] <Riddell> anyone want to write an install and setup article for a magazine?
[15:15] <Riddell> not clear if they'd pay
[15:15] <jjesse> evening Jucato
[15:16] <jjesse> i might have time what would all be involved?
[15:16] <Riddell> jjesse: no idea, I can CC you in my reply and you can ask for more details
[15:21] <Riddell> jjesse: http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/Press_Kit_new.pdf
[15:23] <mhb> news flash: IMAP for gmail accounts, woohoo
[15:26] <jjesse> Riddell: sure go ahead
[15:26] <Jucato> mhb: yeah... wonder when it will all trickle down to everyone...
[15:32] <jpatrick> kde-style-domino awaiting revu http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=404
[15:33] <Jucato> kool! :)
[15:33] <Jucato> jpatrick: thanks for that. one of the requested packages :)
[15:34] <jpatrick> Jucato: so, where are the rest?
[15:34]  * jpatrick plans to get them all in
[15:34]  * Jucato already mentioned semantik
[15:34] <jpatrick> uploaded, in NEW quere
[15:34] <jpatrick> queue*
[15:34] <Jucato> :D
[15:40] <nixternal_> mornin'
[15:41] <jpatrick> moin nixternal_
[15:42] <Jucato> nixternal_!!!!!! with a tail!!!!
[15:42] <jpatrick> ^you have new packages to see to
[15:42] <Jucato> (scary..)
[15:43] <nixternal_> with a tail?
[15:43] <jpatrick> "_"
[15:43] <nixternal_> oh
[15:44] <Jucato> :D
[15:44] <jjesse> hello nixternal
[15:44] <jjesse> !nixternal
[15:44] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[15:44] <jjesse> i laugh ever time i see that
[15:44]  * n8k99 giggles like a schoolgirl
[15:45] <nixternal> howdy jjesse
[15:45] <jjesse> hello rich
[15:49] <nixternal> interesting...I boot up this morning and kmixer has the red x saying it can't be found
[15:49] <nixternal> joy
[15:50] <jjesse> nixternal: i think you have the same sound card as i do don't you? intel?
[15:50] <jpatrick> Jucato: is it me or does domino turn most things black?
[15:50] <Jucato> it does?
[15:50] <Jucato> it shouldn't afaik
[15:51] <jpatrick> hmm..
[15:51] <nixternal> jjesse: yes
[15:51] <jpatrick> tabs and buttons at least
[15:51] <nixternal> maybe a reboot will fix it
[15:51] <jjesse> my volume is a little flaky this morning, jumping up and down
[15:57] <jpatrick> Jucato: looks awesome with a dark colour scheme tho
[15:57] <Jucato> very much :)
[17:02] <Riddell> ** Ask Mark (Shuttleworth) now for Ubuntu Open Week in #ubuntu-classroom
[17:02] <mhb> Riddell: thanks! I hope some interesting kubuntu-related questions will come up... but I fear he hasn't changed his attitude since last time I asked him
[17:03] <Riddell> don't remember you asking him before
[17:04] <Riddell> but feel free to ask questions in -chat
[17:04] <mhb> Riddell: I did that via mail
[17:04] <Riddell> did I see that?
[17:05] <mhb> it's a bit dated, but I can forward it
[17:07] <mhb> Riddell: sent
[17:16] <jpatrick> kde stuff starts now ->
[17:19] <jpatrick> moin aplg
[17:29] <Hobbsee> hm
[17:30] <Jucato> ??
[17:33] <jpatrick> hmm
[17:34]  * Jucato feels hungry... looks for someone to eat
[17:34] <Jucato> er.. something
[17:35] <Hobbsee> Jucato: testing out a mode
[17:35] <Jucato> aaah
[17:36] <jpatrick> hahaha
[17:41] <Riddell> jjesse: did you get anywhere with flash and pandora?
[17:44] <Riddell> works fine for me
[17:53] <alleeHol> Hobbsee, Jucato: good try.  But sabdfl is good at answering without directly answering ;)
[17:54] <Hobbsee> alleeHol: yeah, i know.
[17:54] <Jucato> alleeHol: hehe yeah
[17:54] <Jucato> perfect PR skills
[17:54] <jjesse> Riddell: um somewhat w/ flash and pandora, haven't spent too much time cause i'm still fighting w/ sound issues
[17:54] <alleeHol> Jucato: right
[17:59] <coreymon77> Jucato: friday! :D
[18:00] <Jucato> who what when? O.o
[18:01] <coreymon77> Jucato: leopard
[18:01] <Jucato> oooh
[18:01] <Jucato> I thought thursday :)
[18:01] <coreymon77> oh ya
[18:01] <coreymon77> sorry
[18:01] <coreymon77> thurs
[18:02] <Jucato> :P
[18:02] <coreymon77> no
[18:02] <coreymon77> friday
[18:02] <coreymon77> oct 26
[18:02] <Jucato> ok ok.. "this week" :D
[18:02] <TheInfinity> <-- will have it "this week" ;9
[18:02] <coreymon77> ill have it on saturday
[18:03] <TheInfinity> i think me too - apple online store will send it on 26 so it will be at home at 27, hmm?
[18:03] <coreymon77> depending where you are
[18:04] <coreymon77> actually no
[18:04] <coreymon77> it will get there monday prob
[18:04] <coreymon77> i doubt there will be package shipping on the weekend
[18:04] <TheInfinity> germany, ... ruhr district
[18:05] <coreymon77> so my guess is earliest friday
[18:05] <coreymon77> i mean
[18:05] <coreymon77> monday
[18:05] <TheInfinity> would be better because i am not at home until saturday evening
[18:05] <coreymon77> probably will come monday tuesday or wednesday
[18:06] <TheInfinity> all in all i dont need it that fast
[18:06] <coreymon77> my bro is picking it up for me at student price on friday
[18:06] <coreymon77> so when he comes home on sat i can install it
[18:06] <TheInfinity> is just nice because i additionally get vmware fusion
[18:06] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: i already have fusion
[18:06] <TheInfinity> i also have it for student price ;)
[18:07] <TheInfinity> i was part of fusion betatest and now ... :)
[18:07] <coreymon77> fusion doesnt come with the OS
[18:07] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: i pirated :P
[18:07] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: i know, im an awful person :P
[18:08] <TheInfinity> i dont like pirated software, especially there is an OSS alternative for almost everything
[18:08] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: for virtual machines?
[18:08]  * ScottK considers the wisdom of making confessions on logged/publically archived channels.
[18:08] <coreymon77> with the same capabilities on fusion
[18:09] <TheInfinity> thats why i buy it. because good software should be honoured
[18:09] <coreymon77> ScottK: meh, this isnt even my regular computer
[18:09] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: i usually buy
[18:09] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: and i probably will buy it sometime or other
[18:09] <TheInfinity> most things i do not buy, i support the community instead - because its OSS ;)
[18:10] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: there have just been too many things that have come out lately that are of higher buying priority
[18:10] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: im talking about things i get that are not OSS
[18:11] <TheInfinity> this is mac osx and vmware fusion for me ;)
[18:11] <TheInfinity> and perhaps adobe CS3
[18:11] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: huh?
[18:12] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: what is?
[18:12] <TheInfinity> every other app is free / oss here ;)
[18:13] <coreymon77> TheInfinity: well, pretty much any program can be "free" if you know where to go :P
[18:13] <TheInfinity> free in the idea of the developer :p
[18:17] <coreymon77> Jucato: whats NOFI mena?
[18:17] <coreymon77> mean*
[18:18] <Jucato> dunno :(
[18:18] <coreymon77> ahh
[18:18] <coreymon77> no flame intended
[18:28] <mhb> oh my
[18:28] <mhb> Ubuntu is going to drop the Human theme
[18:28] <mhb> (icons)
[18:28] <jjesse> really?
[18:29] <mhb> I really loved those, and now thanks to the lovely U.S. visa denial I cannot even go to the UDS and discuss with the people
[18:29] <Jucato> really??!?!?
[18:29] <mhb> Jucato: well, it is a spec for the UDS. Of course, two things might block it - people who loved Human icons like me or lack of good artists
[18:30] <mhb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyIconTheme
[18:31] <mhb> the worst thing is, they are going to create a new theme based on the tango guidelines, which I dislike a bit (very large icon borders, cartoonish look, inherits many "industrial" gnome elements I do not like)
[18:33] <Jucato> I don't like the way the tango project wants to enforce those things...
[18:33] <Jucato> I mean, I accept the icon naming spec as good for fd.o... but those things?
[18:35] <Riddell> note that the icon naming spec isn't tango
[18:36]  * Jucato thought it was started by tango?
[18:36] <Jucato> or have I been deceived by JRT...
[18:36]  * Tm_T didnt start waltz
[18:40] <Riddell> JRT is not the most reliable source of information
[18:40] <Jucato> hahah yeah :)
[18:40] <Jucato> JR is the most reliable of course
[18:54] <Riddell> mhb: does gdebi work with remote files?
[18:55] <Riddell> no (at least not on the command line which is what I was meaning
[18:58] <mhb> Riddell: probably not
[18:59] <mhb> Riddell: do we need it?
[18:59] <Riddell> not especially
[19:02] <fdoving> probably not hard to make use of kios to copy the remote file.
[19:24] <daSkreech>  PREROUTING chain?
[19:26] <Riddell> ?
[19:26] <daSkreech> Ignore
[19:26] <daSkreech> Idiotic touchpad
[19:27] <daSkreech> Oh I should check if the help generated by Mousepad bug has been filed already
[21:43] <nixternal> FATAL: Module snd_hda_intel not found
[21:43] <nixternal> argh!
[21:43] <daSkreech> :-)
[21:43] <nixternal> glad that makes you smile :p
[22:00] <nixternal> wo0t..fixed my sound
[22:49] <daSkreech> :-)
[22:53] <claydoh> any idea on where I can start looking for dieas on this bug?
[22:53] <claydoh> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/155051
[22:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155051 in kdebase "[GUTSY] Kubuntu Network Folders truncates long login name" [Undecided,New]
[22:53] <claydoh> Ideas, rather
[23:16] <Riddell> Sime: how ready is pykde4?
[23:18] <Riddell> claydoh: does it affect other distros?
[23:20] <claydoh> dunno, haven't used another in a while :)
[23:20] <claydoh> will look tho
[23:20] <Riddell> claydoh: or try asking on #kde-devel
[23:20] <claydoh> kk