[00:51] <BigPick> Afternoon all.
[02:00] <fujin> Heh, It's becoming impossible to find an answer in #ubuntu, and it's kinda development related - anyone able to tell me what I need to do to add a package to my local repository? I've created a full feisty mirror with apt-mirror, and now wanna setup another mirror for my handrolled packages
[02:01] <BigPick> Got me there. I've never done a repo.
[02:02] <fujin> Blast.
[02:02] <fujin> We've done one here to save traffic, 50~ or so Ubu boxes.
[02:02] <fujin> and I figured I'd be able to hand-roll packages and toss them in, but that didn't work
[02:02] <fujin> so there must be some kind of package signing/cache indexing or something
[02:03] <slangasek> apt-ftparchive
[02:03] <slangasek> I don't think that does signing, so if you want a gpg-signed repo that's an additional step
[02:04] <fujin> ah, I don't think I've got a signed repo
[02:06] <fujin> unless apt-mirror automagically generated a key
[02:07] <slangasek> apt-mirror should copy the signature from the original mirror
[02:07] <fujin> oh. blast.
[02:07] <fujin> I assume what I'm trying to do will involve creating an entirely new mirror, to provide overrides to the packages in my apt-mirror
[02:07] <slangasek> that would probably be best
[02:07] <fujin> Indeed.
[02:07] <fujin> Are you aware of any documentation explaining how to do such a thing?
[02:08] <slangasek> other than apt-ftparchive, not really?  pretty off-topic for this channel by this point, though
[02:08] <fujin> Arg.
[02:08] <fujin> well, thanks. Sorry for breaking the topic
[02:10] <fujin> Ah, Think I found something concering apt-ftparchive and moreso how to use it. Thanks slangasek :)
[02:50] <Chipzz> fujin: btw, you may want to look at apt-cacher or apt-proxy or the likes instead
[02:50] <Chipzz> (to set up a local mirror)
[02:51] <Chipzz> thuogh they have proven to be buggy in the past, dunnow if the issues got resolved
[02:55] <Hobbsee> er, do we actually need gstreamer0.10-esd if we have no esound nwo?
[02:56] <Hobbsee> that'll give us more space, too
[03:05] <Hobbsee> bugs--
[03:09] <tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: Sorry.....  I found, therefore I filed.
[03:09] <tonyyarusso> ;)
[03:09] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: :P
[03:12] <ajmitch> we got rid of esd now?
[03:12]  * ajmitch had some fun issues with it this morning
[03:13] <StevenK> I thought we had.
[03:13] <ajmitch> I hope so
[03:14] <Hobbsee> 68 down to...48.  nice!
[03:14] <ajmitch> still in main, but appears to not be dragged in
[03:14]  * ajmitch should happily purge it thrn
[03:14] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah, we did for tribe 4, iirc.
[03:14] <ajmitch> I wonder how many others have it installed still
[03:14] <StevenK> I think my machine purged it during the upgrade.
[03:15] <ajmitch> my laptop hasn't, sadly
[03:15]  * ajmitch had to ssh in & kill it this morning in order to get a desktop running
[03:16] <ajmitch> I wonder if it can be demoted to universe for hardy
[03:16] <Burgundavia> if upstream goes with PA, then we shoudl proably go the same way
[03:19]  * TheMuso wonders whether the PA issues that are holding it back are fixed.
[03:21] <StevenK> Aren't the PA issues that are holding it back called "upstream" ?
[03:23] <TheMuso> Yes, and according to pitti, they are fixed.
[03:24] <StevenK> As in, upstream themselves. :-)
[03:24] <ajmitch> StevenK: oh he's not that bad
[03:40] <abarbaccia> hello all, i'm having trouble repacking a source package
[03:40] <abarbaccia> the package is lirc-modules-source .. i just want to make a package which has a patch applied to it already
[04:40] <Hobbsee> O.O!!!
[04:41] <lifeless> don't you mean .oO ?
[04:41] <lifeless> :)
[04:41] <elkbuntu> o.O?
[04:41] <Hobbsee> whichever.
[04:42] <Hobbsee> the printing detection actually *works*!
[04:42] <mbt> Not sure if this is the correct room, but just a quickie—does anyone know how long it takes OOo to build on a 64-bit uniprocessor AMD at/about 2 GHz?
[04:42] <ScottK>  IIRC It takes ~12 hours on the Ubuntu buildd.  Dunno what they have.
[04:44] <mbt> Does that include the language files?  My build seems to be going on 24 hours now, and I am trying to build it to test a fix for one of the bugs in LP
[04:44] <ScottK> I think the language packs are separate, but don't know for sure.
[04:46] <mbt> k, thanks.  I am hoping that it's done tomorrow.  I thought I'd have testing packages that would confirm a fix for LP 131526 by this afternoon
[04:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131526 in openoffice.org "[gutsy] OpenOffice crashes/hangs on errors in current gtk theme" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131526
[04:48] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: What? You expected otherwise?
[04:48] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i thought it only worked for USB printers.
[04:48] <Hobbsee> i usually have to configure it all in kubuntu
[04:48] <TheMuso> oh.
[04:48] <TheMuso> and what connection does the printer in question have?
[04:49] <Hobbsee> it's on the lan
[04:49] <Hobbsee> via an ip address
[04:49] <Hobbsee> (ie, not connected to any other machine)
[04:49] <TheMuso> oh ok
[04:49] <TheMuso> what protocol?
[04:53] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: ipp, iirc
[04:55] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[04:58] <LaserJock> I had to set mine up still
[04:58] <LaserJock> but it's pretty easy
[04:58] <LaserJock> a lot better than stupid Windows
[04:59] <StevenK> My printer was fairly easy to set up, but my set up is a little strange, since my wife also wants to print.
[07:52] <chowmeined> Is there a wiki page that goes through installing the rest of the debug symbols?
[07:59] <RAOF> chowmeined: Looking for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash ?
[07:59] <chowmeined> thanks
[08:00] <RAOF> Hey, anything I can do to help get working drivers :)
[08:01] <chowmeined> what would be a good set of packages to get symbols for? i got xorg-dbgsym but i still have a bunch of ?? in my backtraces
[08:03] <RAOF> xserver-xorg-core-dbgsym?
[08:04] <chowmeined> yea i installed that one
[08:04] <RAOF> libdrm?  Oh, you can't get that one.
[08:05] <chowmeined> oh but im using the package you made.. that has debug symbols in it yes?
[08:05] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[08:05] <chowmeined> er.. probably not
[08:05] <chowmeined> hmm
[08:38] <StevenK> Morning pitti
[08:39] <pitti> Good morning
[08:40] <StevenK> pitti: NBS has neatly exploded, too.
[08:40] <pitti> StevenK: yeah, due to the giant buildd backlog
[08:40] <pitti> StevenK: I'm afraid we need to let it settle for some days and ignore it
[08:41] <liw> buildd backlog? huge numbers of new packages?
[08:41] <StevenK> pitti: Yeah, I figured that. Some of it looks legit,.
[08:41] <StevenK> liw: Autosync from Debian.
[08:41] <liw> ah, right
[08:41] <StevenK> liw: There's >1,500 pending builds.
[08:41] <liw> I'm so aware of what's going on that it's scary, aren't I?
[08:42]  * StevenK chuckles.
[08:42] <pitti> liw: huge number of automatic syncs from unstable
[08:42] <StevenK> liw: I've been doing this since Dapper, I have a little headstart.
[08:49] <adop> My system freezes when it comes back from sleep. It has something to do with the disk controller, but it is very difficult to debug since i have no access to it after it tries to wake-up. Could someone direct me how to debug this problem?
[08:52] <desertc> Tighter ALSA integration, please!
[08:54] <Hobbsee> pitti: oh, i had a question for you.
[08:55] <pitti> Hobbsee: oooh, questions!
[08:55] <Hobbsee> pitti: yes.  is esound ever going to make it back onto the cds?
[08:55] <pitti> Hobbsee: over my dead cold body, I hope
[08:56] <pitti> Hobbsee: in hardy I hope that pulse is mature enough
[08:56] <tfheen> pitti: well, as we say, that can be arranged.
[08:56] <tfheen> ;-P
[08:56] <Hobbsee> pitti: good.  then is there any point of keeping the gstreamer plugin for esd on all the cds?
[08:57] <chowmeined> adop: sure its not video?
[08:57] <Hobbsee> pitti: unfortunately, i'ts only 39kb, but you might want it nuked anyway :)
[08:58] <pitti> Hobbsee: contrary to other things, size does *not* matter here :)
[08:59] <Hobbsee> pitti: oh, why not?
[08:59] <pitti> Hobbsee: esd is a horribly broken evilness
[08:59] <Hobbsee> pitti: end question - can i nuke it off the -desktops?  :D
[08:59] <pitti> Hobbsee: it often causes desktop lockups, bad A/V desynchronization on video playback, and other nastinesses
[08:59] <Hobbsee> i know esd is otherwise evil, yes ;)
[08:59] <StevenK> And so is evms, coincedence?
[08:59]  * Hobbsee did a whole bunch of ubuntu-meta bug triage today, you see.
[08:59] <pitti> Hobbsee: yeah, I don't see a reason to keep the gstreamer backend, but that isn't packaged separately, is it?
[09:00] <Hobbsee> pitti: it's seeded separately
[09:00] <adop> chowmeined, pretty sure, since the hdd led stays lit, and after i reset the bios says it cannot find a hd. I have to turn off the machine and then back on to be able to boot again
[09:00] <pitti> gstreamer0.10-esd - GStreamer plugin for ESD
[09:00] <pitti> indeed
[09:00]  * pitti aims his gun
[09:00] <Hobbsee> hm, i wonder if we even *have* hardy seeds yet
[09:00] <Hobbsee> aww, can i do it?
[09:00] <pitti> Hobbsee: sure we have
[09:00] <chowmeined> adop: what controller do you have? and/or have you looked through bug reports to find something similar?
[09:00] <pitti> Hobbsee: please
[09:00] <Hobbsee> pitti: OK.  i made the mistake of touching the gutsy seeds today then.  whoops.
[09:01] <pitti> Hobbsee: please bzr uncommit and push --overwrite as adequate then
[09:01] <StevenK> It's scary that bzr has uncommit
[09:01] <Hobbsee> apparently the brain hastn adjusted that gutsy isnt the development release anymore
[09:02] <StevenK> Hobbsee: That will probably take until the first freeze.
[09:02] <pitti> argh argh -changes spew
[09:02] <Hobbsee> pitti: the other question - should i only do one, and it'll merge over?
[09:02] <pitti> StevenK: it's a live saver at times :)
[09:02]  * TheMuso will only be happy with audio once speech can be put through the chosen framework.
[09:02] <pitti> Hobbsee: yes, please
[09:02] <Hobbsee> pitti: i give you an either or, and you say yes.  try again.
[09:03] <Hobbsee> oh wait, no i didnt.
[09:03] <Hobbsee> ignore that :)
[09:03] <pitti> Hobbsee: change in ubuntu, merge to other branches, please
[09:03] <pitti> who am I to argue against a long pointy stick :)
[09:03] <Hobbsee> pitti: ah, okay, so do the merge as well.  gotcha.
[09:03] <Hobbsee> hehe :)
[09:03]  * Hobbsee hugs pitti
[09:04] <adop> chowmeined, it is nForce4, and the strange thing is that it appears that there are very few reports of simmilar problems, with no solution
[09:05] <chowmeined> adop: if you add your, "this happens to me too" and then give them a bunch of information you can get the bug people to try and help you
[09:06] <chowmeined> adop: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[09:08] <adop> chowmeined, i have asked this in the bug team, but i haven't gotten any reply yet. I'll try filing the bug with the official procedure. Thanks for your help
[09:08] <chowmeined> adop: thank you for taking the time to report this
[09:09] <Hobbsee> pitti: here's your gun back.
[09:09]  * pitti takes back the water pistol
[09:09] <Hobbsee> pitti: also, what are your thoguhts on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/138825 ?
[09:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138825 in ubuntu-meta "{k,x,ed,u}buntu-desktop depends on packages which should be in ubuntu-standard" [Undecided,New]
[09:10] <Hobbsee> (seeing as i'm in a seed-cleanup mood)
[09:10] <StevenK> But they shouldn't.
[09:11] <StevenK> They might be common packages, but they're all desktop.
[09:12] <pitti> Hobbsee: some might, but keep in mind that -standard is installed on CLI and server installs
[09:12] <Hobbsee> pitti: that's more or less what i was thinking
[09:12]  * fabbione makes some more space for hardy on the local mirror
[09:12] <pitti> stuff like bc,  dc, screen, unzip would fit, I guess
[09:13] <StevenK> I thought screen was already in -standard, TBH
[09:14] <pitti> bug updated
[09:14] <ion_> Perhaps there should be a ubuntu-desktop-base, on which *buntu-desktop would depend.
[09:21] <dholbach> good morning
[09:22] <pitti> hey dholbach
[09:23] <dholbach> hey pitti
[09:25] <ion_> Howdy
[09:30] <pitti> wow, how can https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds have ~ 10 idle machines?
[09:30] <pitti> those buildd slackers...
[09:30] <pitti> good morning ogra
[09:31] <ogra> morning
[09:31] <StevenK> pitti: Maybe they're protesting.
[09:32] <pitti> guess I was just (un)lucky and they just took a breath; they are busy again :)
[09:32] <StevenK> pitti: Based on my observation, the buildds say they are idle while they are cleaning up after the last build, and uploading.
[09:47] <soren> Gawd, I suck at following howto's.
[09:50] <slangasek> trouble w/ the CD customization?
[09:50] <soren> How'd you guess? :)
[09:51] <slangasek> where are you stuck?
[09:51] <soren> Nowhere in particular.
[09:51] <slangasek> ok :)
[09:51] <soren> I just don't follow recipes very well.
[09:52] <soren> I need to understand stuff first.
[09:54] <soren> Especially when the howto in question doesn't exactly deal with the problem, I'm faced with, but only a slightly related one. It's hard to make educated guesses in these situations.
[09:57] <soren> Too many years of trying to help out users who get stuck following badly written tutorials or howto's have made me very suspicious. I don't like following howto's unless I know I could have written it myself.
[09:58] <slangasek> well, that's one I could probably have written myself, so if you have specific questions just ask :)
[09:59] <soren> That's the problem, really. Since I have limited knowledge of the domain, it's hard to ask intelligent questions. On the flip side, I guess this is a valuable lesson for me to remember when I'm writing howto's for others, so it's not all bad.
[10:03] <liw> soren, I'm in the same boat, more or less: I strongly prefer to look things up myself, even if that makes things take longer
[10:03] <liw> but it breaks down when the docs aren't there, or are really hard to find
[10:03] <soren> liw: True.
[10:04] <liw> on the third hand, I think it makes me more efficient in the long run to know how to look things up, rather than knowing whom to ask :)
[10:05] <soren> Exactly!
[10:06] <soren> I also feel much better being able to say that I've done so and so becuase that's what I found to be the most sensible approach, rather than "I did so and so, because it said so on a random wiki page".
[10:11] <soren> If I were baking, I could refer all I wanted to the recipe that said to use a teaspoon of sugar and a pound of salt, it'd still taste awful.
[10:29] <pitti> soren: with that ratio it will for sure :)
[10:46] <Fujitsu> What keeps killing the buildds today?
[10:47] <Fujitsu> I have seen them all with builds ~25 minutes old on a number of occasions over the past 12 hours, with no logs.
[10:48]  * ogra guesses the mass imports keep them busy
[10:49] <Fujitsu> ogra: That shouldn't really cause that...
[10:49] <Fujitsu> But I guess if drescher is busy with syncs...
[10:55] <mmeenagh> hello
[10:56] <mmeenagh> just a quick prob with eclipse it doesnt recognize the apache server
[10:58] <mmeenagh> exit
[11:16] <pitti> lool: ooh, congratulations to MOTU! *hug*
[11:21] <lool> pitti: Thanks!
[11:38] <highvoltage> jono: did you hear they're going to remove the word "gullable" from the Oxford dictionairy?
[11:39] <jono> highvoltage: yeah, right :P
[11:40] <highvoltage> jono ftw!
[11:40] <soren> Ohh, shiny! A popup just told me that the battery level on my wireless mouse is about to run out. I've never seen that before. That's pretty cool.
[11:41] <Hobbsee> soren: your task for hte next release is to make it go and find another battery for you, and insert it.
[11:43] <soren> Hobbsee: I might actually be able to get it make a battery show up at my doorstep... I wonder if you can order a rent-by-the-minute servant on the internet that can come by and actually insert the new battery..
[11:43] <Hobbsee> soren: hehe :)
[11:55] <Treenaks> I wish that battery thing understood bluetooth mice
[11:59]  * soren hands Treenaks the hal source
[11:59] <soren> Go fix it.
[12:22] <TheMuso> 3~/c
[12:22] <TheMuso> ugh
[13:56] <soren> *headdesk*
[13:57] <dendrobates> soren: ?
[13:58] <soren> dendrobates: Well, let's just say that just *thinking* about pointing a vmware instance at a different iso doesn't make it happen.
[13:59] <dendrobates> soren: your just not thinking hard enough.  :)
[13:59] <Mithrandir> soren: clearly you need to enable the mind control input device
[13:59] <soren> dendrobates: Possibly, but what I lacked in intensity, I sure made up for in time spent doing it.
[14:03] <soren> Mithrandir: http://surl.dk/360/ ?
[14:03] <soren> Mithrandir: Do they still look like that?
[14:03]  * persia wonders which mind control devices are supported by the default gutsy kernel
[14:04] <Mithrandir> soren: I think you can portable ones those days.
[14:06] <persia> soren: http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/links-biopsy.html is a good list of links for manufacturers, if you're interested.
[14:06] <soren> wow..
[14:07] <soren> eBay doesn't seem to have any of that stuff.
[14:08] <persia> soren: The trick is drivers.  I've only heard of drivers that 1) are proprietary, 2) only provide for data logging (although one could write a userspace daemon to do things), or 3) are over-customised for paraplegics, and not very handy for general use.
[14:09] <soren> persia: And you know this... how?
[14:10] <persia> soren: I've been researching equipment for a wearable with a mind-control interface and augmented-reality feedback for the past 7 years.  Currently, I get about 3 hours on my goggle batteries, look like a freak if I actually wear it outside, and am limited to the HandyKey for input, which doesn't work well for high-motion situations.
[14:12] <persia> The goal is something like the Terminator interface, only in color rather than monochrome red (and I'm willing to wear sunglasses, rather than wait for magnetic rings to warp my optical nerves)
[14:12] <soren> persia: Just for fun?
[14:13] <persia> soren: Well, mostly.  I have fantasies of plugging a projector into my jacket, and having slides just work during a presentation, but that's about as close as it gets to anything related to something serious.
 Cool.
[15:11] <ogra> hmm, i wonder whats the reason behind making squashfs'es created with mksquashfs executable by default
[15:12] <Riddell> asac: flash doesn't work currently on amd64 in firefox right?
[15:13] <ogra> wasnt there a wrapper for that ?
[15:13] <tepsipakki> Riddell: gnash works somewhat
[15:13] <tepsipakki> even with youtube
[15:16] <asac_> Riddell: it should
[15:16] <asac_> Riddell: at least i use flashplugin-nonfree here without any problems
[15:17] <Riddell> asac_: does it set itself up automatically?
[15:17] <asac_> Riddell: yes ... just installing flashplugin-nonfree does all the magic
[15:17] <asac_> e.g. depend on nspluginwrapper ... create the wrapper during postinst et al
[15:20] <smagoun> dpkg question: I have packages A + B installed. A includes file F. I modify B to include a diversion of file F using dpkg-divert. dpkg won't install B', it complains that F is already installed as part of A. If I uninstall B then install B', B' installs just fine and the diversion of F works. Why doesn't B->B' upgrade work without first uninstalling B?
[15:31] <gilligan_> i am interested in the upstart process of providing an early job-controlled shell.. it first closes any open file descriptor, then starts  a new session and open()'s /dev/console  with CTTY set ?
[16:15] <dee> hello. Jono has said I should ask here. :) Will https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22/+bug/121978 be fixed in Gutsy? Or will there be no internet for standard users till april?
[16:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121978 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "Unknown symbol in module fcpci.ko" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:16] <sladen> dee: that's ISDN related?
[16:17] <sladen> dee: so does that mean that ISDN is broken---probably the biggest affected would be German users
[16:17] <Riddell> ogra: please review patch at end of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hwdb-client/+bug/17595
[16:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 17595 in hwdb-client "failure to parse xorg output leads to a hung gui." [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:18] <dee> sladen: not only. fcdslsl is also broken.
[16:18] <ogra> Riddell, looks fine
[16:19] <dee> sladen: and yes, that's the reason why I'm asking. German users will have a little problem now. :(
[16:20] <Riddell> ogra: can you test it works for you?
[16:22] <ogra> Riddell, i have no system that has no xrandr support
[16:23] <Riddell> ogra: so test it on a system with xrandr support
[16:24] <ogra> ah, i can reproduce the second error
[16:27] <ogra> bt i cant patch the binary :/
[16:28] <zul>  /win 10
[16:33] <Riddell> ogra: it's python, no binary involed!
[16:33] <ogra> Riddell, i was trying to patch /usr/bin/hwdb-gui directly
[16:34] <Riddell> ogra: best to patch the source package and build
[16:34] <Riddell> ogra: I've attached a cleaner patch now
[16:36] <ogra> i was to lazy to build a package for it :P
[16:37] <ogra> the script doesnt get modified during build so i would have expected it to apply properly
[16:46] <Riddell> ogra: get anywhere with it?
[16:48] <ogra> building the package atm
[16:48] <ogra> installing
[16:50] <ogra> Riddell, works fine shoot it up :)
[16:51] <Riddell> ogra: thanks
[16:51] <dee> sladen: could you help or was this just a statement above. What can I do that this will be fixed?
[16:52] <ogra> Riddell, thanks for doing the work
[16:52] <cjwatson> doko: please see bug 156720, as it looks like it was your merge that dropped thig
[16:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156720 in glibc "IPv6 link-local interface lookup fix regressed from Feisty to Gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156720
[16:52] <cjwatson> this
[17:04] <lamont> cjwatson: is -updates there by default on install?  upgrade?
[17:04]  * lamont is wondering if it's sufficiently bad to warrant -security
[17:05] <cjwatson> should be there for both
[17:05] <cjwatson> some people might choose to remove it
[17:05] <lamont> ok
[17:05] <cjwatson> it's not appropriate for -security IMO
[17:05] <lamont> ok
[17:08]  * lamont takes notes as he does yet another dapper->gutsy upgrade
[17:10] <doko> cjwatson: oops, never checked in
[17:17]  * lamont struggles to remember how to tell apt to explain why it's holding a package back
[17:17] <Lutin> infinity: around ?
[17:18] <wasabi> There a doc that explains the process by which an ubuntu dist upgrade modifies sources.list?
[17:18] <soren> lamont: libdevmapper1.02, by any chance?
[17:20] <lamont> yep
[17:21] <lamont> but it's a totally off-the-wall behavior, since udev somehow manages to just remove itself from consideration
[17:22] <soren> The new udev has a Breaks: libdevmapper blah... apt in Dapper doesn't understand Breaks, does it?
[17:22] <soren> Gah, sorry, gotta run.
[17:28] <lamont> mvo: wow.  outside of first installing libc6 and libpam-runtime, and the vim bug (156734), and removing evms, dist-upgrade to gutsy is happy on -server
[17:32] <mvo> lamont: nice! dapper->gutsy :)
[17:35] <lamont> yeah, dapper->gutsy
[17:36] <dee> hmm should I push my question until someone can answer?
[17:36] <dee> or is it helpful if I push the bug in malone every week? I don't think it will be faster solved then.
[17:45] <lamont> dee: that depends  on the question...
[17:47] <dee> ok, I repost it. :)
[17:47] <dee> hello. Jono has said I should ask here. :) Will https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22/+bug/121978 be fixed in Gutsy? Or will there be no internet for standard users till april?
[17:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121978 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "Unknown symbol in module fcpci.ko" [Medium,Confirmed]
[18:07]  * achiang waves at lamont
[18:08] <lamont> mvo: so... update-manager on a machine with feisty (and obviously some strangeness in sources.list) yields feisty-updates and then declines to notice that gutsy exists....  any clues?
[18:08]  * lamont points mvo at achiang and watches
[18:09] <lamont> hrm... I wonder if he took the evening off..
[18:09] <lamont> :-)
[18:09] <achiang> ok to flood here? looking at about... 8 lines
[18:10] <dee> lamont: so you could not help either? who can help?
[18:10] <lamont> dee: it might get fixed in gutsy-updates.  gutsy itself is closed
[18:10] <dee> ah, quick answer. ^^
[18:10] <lamont> achiang: just /query mvo. :-)
[18:10] <dee> lamont: and what can I do so that it will be fixed?
[18:11] <dee> about 50% of German users have such a network card.
[18:11] <dee> okay, maybe 30...
[18:12]  * lamont checks around
[18:13] <lamont> achiang: the other option is to use tcpdump or a proxy or such on your machine to see what it's fetching, which might lend some clues
[18:15] <lamont> dee: I'm going to see what else should be in an upload, and then I'll upload a new lrm to gutsy-updates
[18:17] <dee> lamont: many thanks.
[18:17] <bmm> It might be the wrong place to ask, so feel free to boo me to another channel. I want to use something else than vfat on my usb stick, but don't want user permissions stored on it. Is there a filesystem or option I can use instead?
[18:17] <dee> the whole German Community will thank you then. :)
[18:18] <sbalneav> bmm: um, why?
[18:18] <lamont> bmm: I'm pretty sure the real filesystems all know about users and perms...  why would you ever want to not store them?
[18:18] <lamont> their lack in vfat is seen as a major flaw in vfat
[18:19] <bmm> lamont: when you move from linux box to linux box, you want to be able to edit and remove those files on all those boxes. Which means you would either set umask different or add mount options to the fstab.
[18:20] <lamont> right
[18:20] <bmm> (Those are the two options I can think of) but I don't have any rights to change the /etc/fstab as I'm not root on all.
[18:20] <lamont> or have the same uid everywhere you go.
[18:20] <lamont> iz trust question...
[18:20] <sbalneav> Then why not use vfat?
[18:20] <lamont> or do you really want to plug your private files into some random machine?
[18:21] <bmm> lamont: It's a work pc, so I trust it and I don't have the same uid
[18:21] <sbalneav> Is it just between a work and home machine you're sharing?
[18:21] <bmm> lamont: also, I trust my home box not to start executing stuff from the usb stick or getting hacked by an invalid filesystem ;-)
[18:22] <bmm> sbalneav: yes, for the example I am. I real life, my girlfriend also has ubuntu now.
[18:22] <dee> lamont: Probably all modules fcdsl2, fcdslsl, fcdslslusb, fcdslusb, fcdslusb2, fcpci, fcdsl, fcdslusba, fcusb, fwlanusb, fxusb are concerned.
[18:23] <lamont> right
[18:23] <sbalneav> Well, probably then it would simply be easier to make sure the userid's are the same, with the one work box that's not under your control.
[18:23] <sbalneav> Barring that, vfat would be your best bet.
[18:24] <bmm> sbalneav: yeah, I'm getting to the point where I can't see a way out of vfat. Still, I think I may have to file a bug with somewhere like ext3 or the like... Thanks!
[18:27] <sbalneav> Well, there's nothing wrong with ext3.  You're simply wanting two things that are basically mutually exclusive.  I'm still a little unclear as to why you didn't want vfat :)
[18:29] <profoX`> BenC: mjg59: I just rolled in from the #ubuntu-classroom chat where I posed this question. sabdfl told me to ask one of you two instead: "follow up on laptop usability: Suspend/resume does not work for many people with swsusp or uswsusp. I myself have very good experiences with a TuxOnIce patched kernel. Has it already been proposed to include that patch by default in Ubuntu, and if not, why not?"
[18:30] <BenC> profoX`: No, and because I've never heard of it before
[18:30] <bmm> sbalneav: It's not that I don't want vfat, it's just that I didn't think it was cool and it's getting old in my mind ;-)
[18:30] <profoX`> BenC: it's the new name for Suspend2
[18:30] <profoX`> ( http://www.tuxonice.net/features )
[18:30] <BenC> oh, in that case it's because it's way too invasive for us to include
[18:31] <BenC> plus it requires lots of untested (on ubuntu) userspace changes
[18:31] <BenC> profoX`: and "does not work for many people" is a bit arbitrary and misleading...stock suspend/resume works for most people
[18:32] <mjg59> profoX`: There are basically no situations in which tuxonice will work and the in-kernel suspend won't.
[18:32] <BenC> mjg59 would have much more to say
[18:33] <profoX`> mjg59: what happens if there is not enough free SWAP space to perform a suspend action with swsusp?
[18:33] <mjg59> profoX`: It will resume again
[18:33] <profoX`> meaning it will not suspend, right?
[18:33] <mjg59> Correct. swsusp2 doesn't magically fix that.
[18:34] <sistpoty> hi, anyone who'd like to sponsor me an update for nvidia-settings (bug #156362)?
[18:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156362 in nvidia-settings "should ship NVCtrl.h and NVCtrlLib.h" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156362
[18:35] <BenC> sistpoty: most likely that wont get fixed until hardy
[18:35] <sistpoty> BenC: the debdiff is for hardy ;)
[18:36] <BenC> the -2.6.22 package isn't though :)
[18:37] <profoX`> mjg59: TuxOnIce is able to compress the data, and it can suspend to a swap partition and an extra swapfile at the same time if necessary, so I do think that it would work better.
[18:37] <sistpoty> BenC: hm? what -2.6.22 package?
[18:37] <BenC> profoX`: in that rare case, yet
[18:37] <BenC> sistpoty: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 is not going to remain in hardy very long (like maybe a week or two)
[18:38] <lamont> BenC: .24?
[18:38] <BenC> lamont: hopefully
[18:38] <lamont> kewl
[18:38] <sistpoty> BenC: ah, I see. so I should defer nvidia-settings for later?
[18:40] <Lutin> BenC: would you mind having a look at bug #129910 ?
[18:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129910 in linux-source-2.6.22 "tty[1-6] are active but display nothing in Gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129910
[18:40] <BenC> sistpoty: nvidia-settings is a package out of linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22, or no?
[18:41] <sistpoty> BenC: no, it's a standalone package
[18:41] <BenC> sistpoty: oh, then I'm not sure what to do with it
[18:41] <sistpoty> (but I guess it makes use of the nvidia restricted kernel interfaces)
[18:41] <BenC> we don't maintain it
[18:42] <sistpoty> BenC: upload my debdiff? *g*
[18:42] <BenC> we == kernel team
[18:42] <BenC> sistpoty: who was the last uploader for that package?
[18:42] <lamont> lrm uploaded
[18:42] <lamont> dee^^
[18:42] <BenC> lamont: thanks
[18:42]  * lamont lunches
[18:42] <sistpoty> BenC: iirc mvo was, but I'd need to check to be sure
[18:42] <sistpoty> yep
[18:43] <dee> lamont: wow.... don't know the English expression but you will get a "Fleiss-Bienchen"... ^^
[18:43] <sistpoty> dee: that's a busy bee ;)
[18:44] <dee> sistpoty: do you have something like this in ... erm, England or US or whereever you live?
[18:45] <ogra> sistpoty, but i think what dee meant was rather lamont deserves a gold star :)
[18:45] <sistpoty> dee: well, I'm from germany actually :P
[18:45] <ogra> dee, sistpoty tarnt sich nur :)
[18:45] <sistpoty> haha
[18:45] <dee> sistpoty: that help's a lot. ^^ ogra: correct, something like a star.
[18:47] <ScottK> Much better than I feared.  It sounded like something unpleasant to my English speaking ear.
[18:47]  * sistpoty admits that he didn't use the term Fleiss-Bienchen yet *g*
[18:48] <dee> ScottK: Never... Maybe German is a unpleasant language. ;)
[18:49] <Hobbsee> dee: it's a very harsh one, yes
[18:49] <ogra> dee, watch the great disctator from chaplin ... i think it outlines pretty well how others hear us :)
[18:49] <ScottK> Every language has it's own voice that's right for it.  They don't always harmonize well.
[18:49] <dee> ogra: I know the movie, but only in German.
[18:49] <ogra> the speeches he holds are in some weird self inveted tune
[18:50] <dee> *putitonmy-ToRent-list*
[18:50] <sistpoty> ogra: Jawoll! *g*
[18:50] <ogra> :)
[18:50] <dee> that means "to rent", not Torrent ... before someone will complain. ;)
[18:52] <dee> so, I'm off here. bye and thanks again.
[18:52] <Hobbsee> jcastro: just beat it until it submits to your will.  problem solved.
[18:52] <mvo> sistpoty: hello, what was that about nvidia-settings?
[18:53] <Hobbsee> mvo: you broke it.
[18:53] <mvo> i did?
[18:53] <Hobbsee> mvo: of course you did.
[18:53] <sistpoty> mvo: I've got a small patch to ship the headers for the library... see bug #156362... mind sponsoring me?
[18:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156362 in nvidia-settings "should ship NVCtrl.h and NVCtrlLib.h" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156362
[18:53] <Hobbsee> mvo: and even if you didnt, we'll blame you anyway.
[18:54] <mvo> Hobbsee: pfffff :)
[18:54] <Hobbsee> mvo: :D
[18:54] <sistpoty> mvo: (it's in order to build sensors-applet with nvidia-support...)
[18:54]  * Hobbsee hugs mvo
[18:54]  * mvo hugs Hobbsee
[18:54] <mvo> sistpoty: sure, that should be fine
[18:55] <sistpoty> :)
[18:55] <sistpoty> thanks mvo
[18:58] <mvo> sistpoty: upload, thanks for the diff!
[18:58] <sistpoty> mvo: thanks!
[19:28] <sistpoty> are auto-imports now listed on the hardy-changes list as well?
[19:38] <soren> They've always been?
[19:42] <sistpoty> soren: no, there was a separate -auto-changes list (or s.th.)? but I'm just curious though... right now, I can still handle the traffic *g*
[19:45] <Tritonio> hello eveyone. i don't know if this is the right channel but I have a nautilus related question to ask...
[19:46] <Tritonio> i want to open a window showing the contents of a folder with one of them selected. Like the "explorer /select \path\filename.ext" command in windows... I want to do the same but with nautilus.
[19:49] <soren> sistpoty: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-changes-auto/  suggests that this changed during the Dapper cycle. Quit living in the past, Stefan! :)
[19:50] <sistpoty> soren: damn... I guess I've noticed this now, because I don't have my filters set up at work *g*
[19:50] <soren> ;)
[19:50] <sistpoty> <- old bastard
[19:52] <soren> :)
[20:02] <LaserJock> oh my gosh, gmail's got IMAP now ...
[20:22] <keescook> Hm.  How do I make changes to the /var/lib/dpkg/status Conffiles list?
[20:23] <TMM> I have a question: there's a bug in ncpfs in gutsy, and I'd like to fix it, is there an official maintainer for it or something? How do I go about that?
[20:26] <TMM> I mean, I need to discuss what to do with someone :) because the appropriate fix seems to be to downgrade :) it appears that the ncpfs code in the kernel and the user space stuff doesn't use the exact same interface
[20:29] <tepsipakki> hmm, sync requests aren't being handled yet?
[20:31] <LaserJock> TMM: you might want to have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[20:32] <ScottK> tepsipakki: The first autosync just finished this morning and is still building.
[20:32] <TMM> LaserJock: I'll have a look, thanks
[20:32] <tepsipakki> ScottK: ah, fair enough :)
[20:32] <tepsipakki> didn't check the queues
[20:33] <TMM> LaserJock: right now it just plain doesn't work, not in any scenario
[20:37]  * lamont bets mvo is sleeping
[20:37] <mvo> lamont: almost
[20:43] <lamont> mvo: what exactly triggers update-manager to decide that gutsy is available?  wanna point me at the right file in the source?
[20:44] <sistpoty> keescook: why would you want to do that? (and is this really a conffile?)
[20:44]  * lamont brb
[20:45] <glatzor> lamont: Core.MetaRelease
[20:51] <mvo> lamont: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release
[20:55] <lamont> mvo: and if there is no ubuntu.com archive in sources.list?
[20:56] <lamont> or does it always fetch that URL regardless?
[20:56] <mvo> yes
[20:58] <lamont> interesting.
[20:59] <lamont> the situation here is: given a (stale?) sources.list pointed only at internal: update-manager says "up to date".  add an ubuntu.com archive and apt-get update: then even if you change sources.list back, update-manager recognizes gutsy.
[20:59] <lamont> I would blame the "transparent" proxy if it wasn't a continuing issue since gutsy release.
[21:00] <lamont> and the proxy only caches things for 24 hours
[21:00] <mvo> lamont: that is update-manager under gnome, right?
[21:00] <mvo> lamont: what does lsb_release -a output on this system?
[21:00] <lamont> could be cli... let me check
[21:01] <mvo> the kde has a bug like that
[21:01] <mvo> fixed in gutsy-proposed
[21:01] <lamont> ah, ok.
[21:01] <lamont> what should lsb_release -a say?
[21:02] <mvo> something with gutsy in it
[21:02] <lamont> something with gutsy in it --> no upgrade, since we're already tehre?
[21:02] <lamont> there?
[21:02] <mvo> yes
[21:02] <lamont> ok.  that gives me the ammo I need.
[21:02] <lamont> do we know how it gets there?
[21:02] <ScottK> mvo: My Kubuntu install has Gutsy.
[21:04] <mvo> lamont: lsb_release is part of the lsb-release package (if that is what you mean :)
[21:04] <lamont> I meant do we know why lsb_release is deciding to report 'gutsy'...
[21:05] <lamont> and I suspect that it's because we upgraded that package to the gutsy version, or that something wrote /etc/lsb-release
[21:05] <mvo> that sounds plausible
[21:06]  * mvo is away for some minutes
[21:08] <lamont> and s/gutsy/feisty/ will make update-manager happy for those poor afflicted ones?
[21:08] <lamont> the trend seems to be that they first see feisty-updates, and then it reports that all is well and current after the upgrade to current feisty-updates finishes
[21:09] <lamont> so I wonder if maybe u-m is the guilty one???
[21:11] <cjwatson> sistpoty: it was an accident - they weren't supposed to have gone to the -changes list
[21:12] <keescook> sistpoty: well, procps used to use /etc/init.d/procps but then (a while back) switched to procps.sh, and are now switching back to just plain "procps".
[21:13] <keescook> sistpoty: but it doesn't install the new procps file because (I am assuming) it is marked as "obsolete" in the dpkg status file
[21:13] <cjwatson> I think that's worth checking rather than assuming it
[21:13] <cjwatson> dpkg conffile handling is a bit subtle
[21:21] <keescook> cjwatson: yup.  if I remove the "obsolete" entry manually it works as expected.
[21:22] <mvo> lamont: hm, that sounds all a bit odd. you say that for people update-manager comes up and offers an upgrade, then they apply some updates and the next time it is run, the update option is gone?
[21:23] <lamont> update-manager comes up, tells them that feisty-updates is what they need.  they run that update, and then run update-manger again, and it says "you're up to date"
[21:24] <mvo> lamont: and no "upgrade to gutsy" button anymore. or was it never there?
[21:26] <lamont> nope.  and changing sources.list to point to u.c and dist-upgrading makes us then decide that gutsy is an option
[21:26] <lamont> I'll work on actually duplicating it later this week
[21:27] <lamont> or at UDS.
[21:28] <lamont> today/tomorrow I'm in a meeting all day
[21:29] <mvo> lamont: ok. they use the version of update-manager from feisty-updates I assume? because then it should be fine. you could check ~/.update-manager-core/meta-release and see if that contains gutsy. the file is requested with no-cache headers, so it should hopefully get through the proxy just fine
[21:29] <mvo> lamont: it would be cool to debug this issue
[21:30] <lamont> ok
[21:30] <lamont> I have a machine I can drop feisty on to test the update.
[21:30] <Kmos> can someone update command-not-found database on gutsy ?
[21:30] <mvo> lamont: I understand this is a problem in your company network?
[21:30] <mvo> Kmos: it was updated a couple of days before the release
[21:31] <mvo> Kmos: what is wrong with it?
[21:31] <lamont> all of the users I've heard it from have been internal to the company network, yes
[21:31] <lamont> and the company is known to have proxies that are not-so-transparent.
[21:32] <mvo> lamont: but http access to files outside of the network works, just through a (forced/transparent) proxy?
[21:32] <lamont> correct.
[21:32] <Kmos> mvo: i tried startupmanager and it didn't show any package for it
[21:33] <Kmos> it's that normal ?
[21:33] <lamont> if you don't specify a proxy, you get one.  and that proxy doesn't expire Packages/etc in less than 24 hours, which means that it's perfectly normal and common to have the md5sum check fail
[21:34] <mvo> lamont: ok, thanks. that makes the picture more complete. I wonder if the meta-release file is stale in the proxy as well, but then it changed more than 24h ago, so it should be refreshed by now. strnage
[21:34] <mvo> Kmos: I get: $ startupmanager
[21:34] <mvo> The program 'startupmanager' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
[21:34] <mvo> sudo apt-get install startupmanager
[21:35] <lamont> mvo: right
[21:35] <lamont> so now I have what I need to be able to walk someone with the issue through figuring out the evil that IT has done
[21:35] <lamont> unless it's our bug. :-(
[21:35] <mvo> lamont: feel free to file a bug and paste the content of our conversation so that it is not forgotten
[21:36] <Kmos> mvo: i don't get that
[21:36] <lamont> ok.  I'll assign it to me, even.
[21:36] <mvo> lamont: it might be a u-m bug as well, I start to hate proxies, give us all sorts of problems
[21:36] <Kmos> kmos@bash:~$ startupmanager
[21:36] <Kmos> bash: startupmanager: command not found
[21:36] <lamont> update-manager honors $http_proxy, yes?
[21:36] <Kmos> command-not-found is already the newest version.
[21:36] <mvo> lamont: yes
[21:36]  * lamont will file the bug tonight, when he's not on his laptop
[21:37] <stgraber> Kmos: updated system or clean install ? (I have command-not-found working correctly on a clean install here)
[21:37] <mvo> Kmos: I assume command-not-found-data too? it works here on a fresh install (just tested on my test-vm)
[21:38] <Kmos> mvo: installed too
[21:38] <Kmos> stgraber: upgraded from feisty, since tribe-3 ou -4
[21:38] <mvo> Kmos: odd, what does "/usr/lib/command-not-found startupmanager" output?
[21:39] <Kmos> with all latest updates :)
[21:39] <Kmos> kmos@bash:~$ /usr/lib/command-not-found startupmanager
[21:39] <Kmos> The program 'startupmanager' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
[21:39] <Kmos> sudo apt-get install startupmanager
[21:39] <Kmos> it's correct..
[21:39] <Kmos> something with my bash script ?
[21:39] <mvo> Kmos: could you please check /etc/bash.bashrc? there should be something with command-not-found at the bottom
[21:40] <Kmos> # if the command-not-found package is installed, use it
[21:40] <Kmos> exactly
[21:41] <Kmos> http://pastebin.com/d573711ba
[21:41] <Kmos> it points to /usr/bin/
[21:41] <Kmos> and not /usr/lib
[21:42] <mvo> Kmos: do you have a /etc/bash.bashrc.dpkg-new (or something similar)?
[21:42] <Kmos> mvo: nop
[21:42] <Kmos> maybe i didn't overwrite the bash in some update, but really don't know
[21:43] <mvo> that was my guess now (conffile prompt answered with "keep old version")
[21:43] <Kmos> :)
[21:43] <Kmos> i need to change it manually
[21:43] <mvo> yes
[21:44] <Kmos> thanks =)
[21:44] <mvo> cheers :)
[21:44]  * mvo should go to bed soon
[21:45] <Kmos> mvo: good night
[21:51] <Knuckles> Hello all!
[21:52] <Knuckles> I read the article about joinning the ubuntu developement team
[21:52] <Knuckles> and I want to do it
[21:52] <Knuckles> but I can't know exactly what kind of competences are necessary to do that
[21:53] <Knuckles> as, wich languages do i have to know, etc.
[21:56] <Knuckles> Sorry for those messages, I didn't read the subjet. Mea Culpa
[21:59] <ScottK> Knuckles: If you are just getting started, #ubuntu-motu is a better place to start.  Helping newcomers is part of their mission.
[22:00] <Knuckles> Yep
[22:00] <Knuckles> I read this channel subject and saw that after posting
[22:00] <Knuckles> Thank you for your help.
[22:58] <dogwater> Sooo which update would ya say broke my wifi last night, lol
[22:58] <desrt> dogwater; you're more likely to find out in #ubuntu
[23:03] <tonyyarusso> BenC: ping?
[23:10]  * lamont wants working video on his ATI Radeon mobility 1600 without using fglrx
[23:11] <jdong> lamego: heh, good luck?
[23:13] <lamego> jdong, hum :) ?
[23:13] <lamego> ah, was lamont
[23:13] <lamont> jdong: well, I got video back, but with fglrx
[23:14] <jdong> lamego: ok, when 3 letters are the same, you are asking for mistabbing from me :)
[23:14] <lamont> with feisty, I -HAD- non-fglrx video working.  nfc how though.
[23:14] <jdong> lamont: what? what driver?
[23:14] <jdong> avivo?
[23:15] <lamont> exactly
[23:15] <lamont> I wish to hell I knew.
[23:15] <lamont> for that matter, how do I get the X server to dump config, or tell me the driver name?
[23:15] <jdong> lamont: well the only other driver that runs on the card is avivo and VESA
[23:15] <jdong> lamont: /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[23:15] <lamont> I wonder if it was avivo
[23:16] <lamont> jdong: you can boot without xorg.conf in gutsy.
[23:16] <lamont> but no config to read then
[23:16] <jdong> lamont: xorg.0.log
[23:16] <lamont> and reverseparse that log. ew.
[23:16]  * lamont tries avivo
[23:17] <jdong> lamont: I was totally unaware that avivo had xvideo acceleration...
[23:17] <Amaranth> no no, if you start it without an xorg.conf file it dumps out what config file would match what it's using in the log
[23:18] <Amaranth> I think, anyway. Haven't tried it in awhile
[23:21] <lee_pepper> Hey does any one know any thing about intellectual property crimes, and open source??
[23:22] <ion_> Nope, no-one does.
[23:22] <lee_pepper> ouch
[23:23] <cjwatson_> I think you should ask a less vague question
[23:23] <cjwatson_> but if you need a lawyer, this is not the place
[23:23] <pwnguin> and if you need a paper for ethics class, this is also not the place ^_^
[23:24] <ion_> And if you need a hand committing an intellecutual property crime, this is not the place either. :-)
[23:24] <desrt> and if you're trolling to find out if we even recognise the term "intellectual property" as having a particular meaning, this is apparently also not the place? O_o
[23:25] <Spads> keep your property laws off my intellect, thank you.
[23:25] <lamont> avivo FTL.
[23:25]  * desrt thinks lee_pepper is getting more than s/he bargained for :)
[23:26] <jdong> lamont: I don't know if radeonhd would work with the X1600?
[23:26] <jdong> or if it has xvideo for that matter
[23:26] <lamont> it screamed about video 0 being live with no outputs
[23:26] <jdong> O_O
[23:26] <lamont> I figure I'll make it my project at UDS next week,.
[23:30] <desrt> holy crap UDS is next week
[23:30] <desrt> :D
[23:31] <Mithrandir> it is
[23:31] <Mithrandir> scary thing.
[23:31] <desrt> colour me excited
[23:31] <desrt> Mithrandir; attending?
[23:32] <Mithrandir> desrt: of course.
[23:32] <desrt> with guest?
[23:32] <lifeless> desrt: you coming ?
[23:32] <Mithrandir> desrt: no. :-(
[23:32] <desrt> lifeless; wouldn't miss it :)
[23:32] <lifeless> excellent
[23:32] <lifeless> see you there :)
[23:32] <desrt> Mithrandir; that's unfortunate
[23:32] <desrt> lifeless; you will :)
[23:32] <Mithrandir> desrt: indeed.
[23:33] <xhaker> Boston right?
[23:33] <desrt> mhmm
[23:33] <desrt> pretty close to MIT
[23:33] <Mithrandir> at MIT, I thought?
[23:33] <jdong> desrt: technically on campus
[23:33] <desrt> just down the street from, actually
[23:33] <jdong> Cambridge :)
[23:33] <desrt> the hotel isn't on the campus...
[23:33] <jdong> desrt: I can see the building out of my window.
[23:33] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson_: Say, I have a kernel-related question if you have a moment.
[23:34] <desrt> is the conference in the hotel or at the university?
[23:35] <jdong> hotel, I thought
[23:35] <desrt> the hotel is technically on campus?
[23:36] <jdong> desrt: well how do you define on campus?
[23:36] <desrt> i don't know -- that's the problem :)
[23:36] <jdong> desrt: going by the MIT "all campus buildings have a building number" rule, than no
[23:36] <jdong> then*
[23:37]  * desrt google mapsed it and there seems to be a rather clearly defined "this is MIT" area
[23:37] <jdong> desrt: going by the "there's more buildings further from it, so campus encovers the radius", then yes
[23:37] <desrt> ah... so there is a core campus and outlying buildings
[23:37] <jdong> desrt: right
[23:37] <jdong> desrt: and near the east side MIT owns a huge number of biotech skyscrapers
[23:38] <cjwatson_> tonyyarusso: I think you may be talking to the wrong person - I'm not a kernel hacker
[23:38] <jdong> that are technically MIT property but most of our mortal undergrad souls never get to enter :)
[23:38] <desrt> i grok.  thanks for the info
[23:38] <jdong> sure thing
[23:38] <tonyyarusso> cjwatson_: could be - I guess I'm mis-thinking today.  Darn :(
[23:38]  * tonyyarusso wants his bloody consoles back
[23:39] <cjwatson_> #ubuntu-kernel maybe
[23:39] <tonyyarusso> I'll try that