[11:56] <ubotu> New bug: #156630 in ubuntu-docs (main) "typo in "hardware" template" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156630
[13:50] <tuxcrafter> hello everybody
[14:10] <tuxcrafter> Is it possible to get a ubuntu wiki mentor?
[14:18] <seisen> Did you do all of this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Mentoring
[14:30] <tuxcrafter> seisen: ah perfect
[14:31] <seisen> no problem
[14:31] <tuxcrafter> seisen:  now I just have to wait until my latest HOW TO's are approved by a forum administrator.
[14:31] <seisen> what are they about??
[14:31] <tuxcrafter> than i can create a wiki backed for them
[14:31] <tuxcrafter> seisen: pff a lot
[14:31] <tuxcrafter> lets see
[14:32] <seisen> you can create the wiki pages without anybody's approval
[14:32] <tuxcrafter> seisen: no point for me to make wiki without a full support background :-p
[14:33] <tuxcrafter> Install openchrome video drivers from cvs source
[14:33] <tuxcrafter> Setting up xfce font rendering settings
[14:33] <tuxcrafter> Setting up xorg monitor settings
[14:33] <tuxcrafter> Installation of the SCR335 smartcard reader
[14:33] <tuxcrafter> Installation of hellanzb nzb downloader
[14:33] <tuxcrafter> Installation of lib-xine based multimedia codecs
[14:33] <tuxcrafter> Installation of vmware server
[14:34] <tuxcrafter> that are them for now I have a lot more but they are still in beta phase
[14:34] <tuxcrafter> this scripts has been tested and used in production for almost a year now
[14:34] <tuxcrafter> s/this/these/
[14:35] <tuxcrafter> I also have a lot not so universal scripts but these are not published yet
[14:35] <tuxcrafter> therefor I could use the wiki backand
[14:36] <tuxcrafter> s/backand/backend/
[14:36] <tuxcrafter> I also would like a mentor for ubuntu packaging
[14:37] <tuxcrafter> i got a awesome set of scripts for thunar file manager that have also been tested, i am preparing a complete support system for them
[14:37] <seisen> sounds to me like you have been a little busy
[14:38] <tuxcrafter> seisen: yes the last years has been busy indeed
[15:55] <tuxcrafter> I think i am forgetting something but i want to remove all leading spaces until the first character, what am i forgetting? (tabs are next)
[15:56] <tuxcrafter> description=${description#* }
[15:57]  * tuxcrafter is losing it maybe the syntax is already correct
[15:57] <tuxcrafter> description=${description#*$'\t'}
[15:59] <tuxcrafter> got dammit again the wrong channel
[16:00] <tuxcrafter> sorry guys
[16:00] <tuxcrafter> haha
[18:30] <LaserJock> mdke: around?
[18:30] <mdke> LaserJock: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)
[18:33] <LaserJock> mdke: I was just thinking of a way that might make the initial branching a bit easier for people. LP allows projects to have tarballs for downloads. We could tar up the .bzr and have LP host  it.
[18:36] <mdke> LaserJock: might work yeah. I don't know much about bzr. The branching is going to be substantial given that each branch (as I understand it) is going to have the whole revision history for the repository in it...
[18:36] <mdke> I believe LP doesn't support shared repositories over branches
[18:37] <LaserJock> right
[18:38] <LaserJock> so if we had a tarball of the .bzr/
[18:38] <LaserJock> even 1 per release
[18:38] <LaserJock> it's save people downloading the vast majority of history
[18:38] <mdke> how does that work? you download the .bzr then branch and it is fast?
[18:39] <mdke> alternatively, cant you just avoid downloading all the history?
[18:39] <LaserJock> yes
[18:39] <LaserJock> although for a lot of people the history might be nice as well
[18:39] <mdke> well, not much of it :)
[18:40] <mdke> it's handy to have around but probably the old svn history is not very helpful
[18:40] <LaserJock> all you do is tar -czf hardy_docs.tar.gz .bzr/ and there you go
[18:40] <LaserJock> then people download the tarball like any normal file
[18:40] <mdke> doesn't bzr compress already over the download?
[18:40] <LaserJock> some
[18:40] <LaserJock> but the killer is that you are downloading so many individual files
[18:40] <LaserJock> with this you just download one file
[18:41] <LaserJock> untar it, abd bam, you have the branch
[18:41] <mdke> alright, i suggest we do both then; recommend people to branch without the history and keep the history in a tarball for those who want it
[18:41] <LaserJock> *and
[18:41] <LaserJock> sure
[18:41] <LaserJock> but doing stuff in history I think is easier with bzr
[18:41] <mdke> btw just to clarify about the different branches, the idea is to have the common and generic documents in *every* branch, are you clear on that for the purposes of creating the edubuntu ones?
[18:42] <LaserJock> so we might find it useful more than the svn history
[18:42] <LaserJock> yep
[18:42] <LaserJock> basically I'm just going to make the branch how I package it
[18:42] <mdke> good. I'm going to try and do an xubuntu-hardy one now as an example
[18:42] <mdke> does the naming scheme work for you?
[18:42] <LaserJock> yep
[18:43] <mdke> ok
[18:43] <LaserJock> one question I had was if you're going to keep the whole history for xubuntu, etc.
[18:43] <LaserJock> we *could* make the derivative branches much smaller by starting fresh
[18:43] <LaserJock> if the ubuntu branch has the complete history then if we really needed it would could use that branch
[18:44] <mdke> how does one get rid of history? just by exporting and starting a new repository?
[18:44] <LaserJock> I wonder if it's useful to have 4 copies of the entire svn history
[18:44] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what I would do
[18:44] <mdke> hmm
[18:44] <LaserJock> I just wondered what you thought of that
[18:44] <mdke> good question. I don;t know the right answer
[18:45] <LaserJock> given that we've never really "gone back in history" much
[18:45] <mdke> very true
[18:45] <LaserJock> I wonder if it's just wasteful to have multiple copies
[18:46] <LaserJock> we for sure should have at least one
[18:46] <mdke> perhaps we should just have a dump of the whole svn repo somewhere and start from scratch with all the new branches
[18:47] <mdke> I don't see why ubuntu should be heavy and the others not... :)
[18:47] <mdke> tbh, I dont' really mind what we do about this, I don't know
[18:48] <LaserJock> well, what we *could* do is have an ubuntu-archive branch
[18:48] <LaserJock> and then start fresh
[18:48] <LaserJock> for all
[18:48] <mdke> is LP clever enough to avoid me uploading all the history 20 times if I'm just creating branches from others already present?
[18:49] <mdke> if not it will take weeks to upload all these :)
[18:49] <LaserJock> I don't think so but I don't know for sure
[18:49] <LaserJock> to LP they are separate branches
[18:49] <mdke> mpt: got any views on all this? We could do with some advice from someone who uses bzr and knows Launchpad
[18:51] <mdke> LaserJock: problem with having an ubuntu-archive branch is that we'd need one for trunk, for gutsy, for feisty, for edgy etc because I don't think it's possible (or advisable) to import the whole svn repo to a single branch
[18:52] <LaserJock> true
[18:52] <mdke> I might ask lifeless, he's the man for this stuff
[18:52] <LaserJock> although, if we did just do the archvies as tarballs I wonder if that'd be ok
[18:56] <LaserJock> mdke: that'd be a good idea, before we go and spend a week pushing branches
[18:56] <LaserJock> for almost all activity I can think of we don't need the complete history around
[19:16] <dsas_> I've just done a bzr branch on ubuntu-hardy and it appears bzr tries to download the branch as a tarball anyway
[19:16] <dsas_> (when using bzr+ssh transport)
[19:17] <dsas_> though my laptop just ran out of memory and died when attempting it.
[19:18] <LaserJock> lol
[19:39] <mdke> LaserJock: ok, getting solutions from #bzr
[19:39] <mdke> from our side, someone will help with the uploads of the branches to LP by doing it from somewhere close (i assume inside the DC)
[19:40] <mdke> for downloads, you can just download the revision history once with multiple branches by using a shared repository
[19:41] <mdke> i think that gets round the problems
[19:42] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, great
[19:56] <nothlit> hey guys, i'm wondering what license everything in the wiki is under?
[19:57] <mdke> nothlit: the help wiki is under cc-by-sa (see the footer)
[19:58] <nothlit> mdke: is there a preferred method of attribution or would a commented link do?
[19:59] <mdke> good question, we should add that to the License page. I'm sure a commented link will work
[19:59] <mdke> ah, there is something about it on the page already :)
[20:01] <mdke> nothlit: see the page, does it answer your question?
[20:03] <nothlit> mdke: ahh ok, great
[20:04] <LaserJock> mdke: so are we doing a shared repository then?
[20:05] <mdke> LaserJock: I need to find out how it's done. then we can add it to the instructions for getting the branches
[20:05] <nothlit> mdke: those small footer links are a bit misleading next to the web badge, they look like generic company stuff rather than places to look wiki-relevant info
[20:06] <mdke> nothlit: I tend to agree
[21:06] <mpt> mdke, did you get answers to your Bazaar questions?
[21:09] <mpt> (bbiab, replacing battery)
[21:09] <mdke> mpt: yes, from #bzr. However there seems to be an issue with storing so much revision history on LP; it will take up a lot of disk space and so we're considering just splitting the branches for derivatives from hardy, leaving a single branch for the previous releases
[21:09] <mdke> gah
[21:19] <mpt> mdke, ok
[21:19] <mpt> Revision history can be useful to find out when a particular part was written/revised
[21:19] <mpt> and by whom
[21:20] <mpt> but I guess that needs to be weighed against download time
[21:21] <mdke> the issue seems to be more about server side disk space
[21:21] <mdke> users can download without history, right?
[21:33]  * mdke tickles mpt
[22:21] <mpt> mdke, sure, that's what lightweight checkouts are for
[22:24] <mdke> mpt: right
[22:24] <mdke> so the issue is more a question of space on the LP side
[22:24] <mpt> How big is the history in bzr format?
[22:25] <mpt> ubuntu-docs should be tiny in comparison with some projects Launchpad dreams of hosting :-)
[22:25] <mdke> something like 200MB (would be 16 branches)
[22:25] <mpt> wow
[22:25] <mpt> Why is that? Lots of images?
[22:25] <LaserJock> only 200MB?
[22:26] <mdke> I suspect the revision history is text only
[22:26] <LaserJock> I would have thought closer to >500MB at least
[22:26] <mdke> LaserJock: per branch?
[22:26] <LaserJock> yeah
[22:27] <LaserJock> maybe bzr is more efficient then I thought ;-)
[22:28] <mdke> the ubuntu-hardy branch is 220MB
[22:28] <mdke> actually proably the branches are with translations  a lot bigger
[22:29] <mdke> but the ubuntu-hardy branch has all the revisions relevant to svn trunk
[22:31] <mdke> LaserJock: anyway, we have an edubuntu-hardy branch now so feel free to go and clean it up, remove whatever you don't want
[22:33] <LaserJock> mdke: awesome, thanks
[22:33] <mdke> probably for the other previous releases we won't have separate branches for derivatives, due to this space issue
[22:34] <LaserJock> yeah
[22:34] <LaserJock> we mostly just need to move forward :-)
[22:34] <mdke> when LP implements shared repositories, then we can do whatever we want
[23:24]  * tuxcrafter is broken, see you all over 8 hours
[23:26] <tonyyarusso> I know the appropriate response is "So fix it", but until I magically find time I'd like to point out that https://help.ubuntu.com/ still lacks a 7.10 tab.