=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Team | 30 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 31 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu Team | 07 Nov 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Team | 08 Nov 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team === asac_ is now known as asac === greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco === asac_ is now known as asac [08:05] Greetings everybody! [08:06] moin [08:06] hi kraut [08:09] hi MacSlow === asac__ is now known as asac === lionel_ is now known as lionel === ogra__ is now known as ogra === ajmitch_ is now known as ajmitch === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson [12:08] ogra, Is there and Edubuntu meeting on this channel soon? [12:08] @schedule [12:08] Schedule for Etc/UTC: 24 Oct 20:00: Edubuntu Team | 30 Oct 16:00: Kernel Team | 31 Oct 12:00: Edubuntu Team | 07 Nov 20:00: Edubuntu Team | 08 Nov 15:00: Community Development Team [12:09] flint, 20:00 UTC [12:09] @schedule New York [12:09] Schedule for America/New_York: 24 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu Team | 30 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 31 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu Team | 07 Nov 15:00: Edubuntu Team | 08 Nov 10:00: Community Development Team [12:10] ogra, thanks === asac_ is now known as asac === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso === asac_ is now known as asac === Pricey is now known as PriceChild === Fujitsu_ is now known as Fujitsu === nixternal_ is now known as nixternal [15:59] * asac waves [15:59] hi [15:59] @time [15:59] Current time in Etc/UTC: October 24 2007, 15:00:01 - Next meeting: Edubuntu Team in 4 hours 59 minutes [16:00] hi [16:00] hi [16:00] good afternoon [16:00] morning [16:00] hmm can we get our meetings in this channel on the fridge? [16:00] doko_,lool,seb128: ping [16:00] cjwatson: hi [16:01] * lool w00t [16:01] if somebody would like to volunteer as secretary to get our meetings onto the Fridge, I would welcome that [16:01] * asac has no idea _how_ to do that ... but would volunteer [16:02] I have no idea how either, which is why I'm asking :-) [16:02] I think there's an ics for the fridge and there's another one for our meetings, perhaps people maintaining the fridge could use it? [16:02] I suspect it involves mailing fridge-devel [16:02] pong [16:03] cjwatson: i will figure out ;) [16:03] is it worth an ACTION? :) [16:03] it is now, I'll note it [16:04] ok [16:04] asac: Just in case that's useful, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical and http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=15dh3ig0tj98ot7pchdqrvl09g%40group.calendar.google.com [16:04] so, I don't see any agenda items from folks; anything to raise, or are we saving it all for our upcoming meeting marathons? [16:04] save +1 [16:05] I mainly wanted to take the opportunity to talk to people a bit about fosscamp and uds before we all set off === doko_ is now known as doko [16:05] for veterans, FOSSCamp is new; for new people, everything is new [16:06] given the past two UDS, should we expect the VoIP sessions to not be saved again? I'm debating going out and buying a voice recorder just in case. [16:06] I don't think you should rely on getting voice recordings [16:06] a voice recorder is an option, though I would recommend being more religious about making sure every session has a secretary at the start [16:07] we have learned from last time and will be presenting a launchpad intro in a plenary session at the start, and I hope printed sheets as well [16:07] that is my intention, but even with good notes I often wish I remembered *exactly* what someone said [16:08] about launchpad ... i am not sure if i subscribed myself on launchpad for attending uds ... how can i figure out if i am now subscribed? [16:08] asac: that's a good point [16:08] https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-boston-2007 [16:08] there is an "Attendees" expander [16:09] ah ... i really did it;) [16:09] (which I'm not in, *cough*) [16:09] lol [16:09] please follow my example and register your attendance if you haven't already ;-) [16:09] oops, me either [16:09] I think the scheduling frankenstein we're using actually has you all hardcoded as attending, but please register anyway to avoid relying on it [16:10] how are blueprints getting decided for the agenda? [16:11] cjwatson: i know i came up with it lates ... but is there still a slot in the core schedule for application-qa-community [16:11] (no idea if it matters at all) [16:11] I'll finish talking about fosscamp (briefly) and then move onto UDS [16:12] as I think you've all been told, FOSSCamp is an ad-hoc conference to help improve communication with upstreams [16:12] the scheduling will happen on the day, by means of a whiteboard or post-it notes or similar low-tech [16:13] please come with an informal list of things you want to discuss with people, and make sure to grab schedule slots early [16:13] there's a list of whom Canonical has sponsored to attend at https://wiki.canonical.com/UdsCambridgeSponsorships (under BarCamp) [16:13] (since the naming changed during planning) [16:13] if you were responsible for inviting somebody, please make sure to take advantage of that and talk with them :-) [16:14] otherwise, it should be lower-pressure than UDS, and a good opportunity to ramp up, not to mention figuring out what your upstreams are doing by way of input into UDS [16:15] OK, so the 10000-foot view of UDS scheduling [16:15] we have a core schedule and an automatic schedule [16:15] cjwatson: I see Julien Cristau listed on the page, but I met him IRL last week and he never heard of the event; is this the same Cambridge? [16:15] lool: he's on for UDS, not FOSSCamp [16:16] lool: if he didn't hear about it, that's unfortunate, check with clan [16:16] Ok, I will [16:16] the core schedule is what we want to make sure gets discussed, and is scheduled with some care by hand [16:16] (in the past we had problems with important things getting bitten by autoscheduler bugs, hence this practice) [16:17] http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-boston-2007/ in the unlikely event that you haven't already seen it [16:17] we can still make changes to the core schedule, so if there's something important you want, mail me the details, preferably with a spec already registered in Launchpad [16:17] however, the autoscheduler will be used to fill in the gaps [16:18] specs that are proposed and accepted for uds-boston-2007, that have a priority set, and that have status New or Discussion (phew) will be considered for scheduling [16:18] (I may have missed out a condition or two there, so if it breaks, come to me) [16:19] obviously this is dependent on the necessary people being available in some slot [16:19] try not to make me "participation essential" for meetings as otherwise it'll probably never get scheduled :-) [16:20] however, there is actually a fair bit of room in the platform track [16:20] Are we to set ourselves participation essential or is the person motivating the spec supposed to mark the important people as such? [16:20] so yes, there is space for more sessions [16:20] lool: I *believe* that the autoscheduler will consider the assignee and the drafter as implicitly essential [16:20] cjwatson: ok ill mail you about the application qa thing then [16:21] but if you think you really need to be at something, then yes, feel free to mark yourself as participation essential [16:21] the semantic there is "this spec probably can't be properly sorted out without this person" [16:22] Ok, thanks [16:22] any further questions about the next week? [16:22] so, should I register specs for each topic I sent to you for the i18n round table session? [16:23] ArneGoetje: it may be appropriate to do so after the roundtable discussion, and then they can go onto the agenda for the next day [16:23] the colloquial term you'll hear for this is "breakout sessions" [16:23] cjwatson: ok [16:23] I had marked some existing X specs for this UDS a while back, but I'm not seeing any of them here. Should I just go ahead and create new specs for them? [16:23] bryce: mail me a list and I'll look into it [16:24] ok [16:24] bear in mind that the schedule in ~scott is just the core schedule [16:24] the automatic schedule stuff will be filled in first thing each morning [16:24] it's not showing up on sprints/uds-boston-2007 either [16:24] ok, definitely mail me [16:24] next: roundtables [16:25] I have two confirmed roundtables, two further ideas, and five slots in total [16:25] the roundtable sessions are 45-minute sessions that aren't there to produce specs, but to talk through a relatively large topic and come up with ideas for specific plans of attack [16:26] or even just "how could we improve all this mess in future"-type stuff [16:26] the two I have confirmed are internationalisation (arne) and CD size control (doko) [16:27] the two maybes are bug reporting improvements and derivatives; I'd welcome somebody to chair those, though I'll probably chair one myself [16:27] any more ideas for things that could benefit from a fairly large number of people? [16:27] (don't say "paintball") [16:27] for those who were in Sevilla, this is sort of an evolution of what we were calling "forums" then [16:28] ok, if you think of anything, please mail me or talk to me at FOSSCamp about it [16:29] the last thing I have is that some people (particularly newcomers) have asked for training sessions, and we're planning to fit those in at allhands [16:29] question: do we need to register ourselves for sessions we want to attend or do we just walk in whatever interests us? [16:30] ArneGoetje: in RFC-speak, you SHOULD register but MAY walk in [16:30] cjwatson: where to register? [16:30] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec//+subscribe [16:30] ah... [16:31] * ArneGoetje is not familiar with this sytem yet... [16:31] cjwatson: maybe you can give us (new ones) an idea about all-hands as well? what kind of work? do we expect to happen there? [16:31] registration means you'll automatically get mail about wiki page updates following the session on which you may want to comment, which can be useful [16:32] asac: ok, fair question [16:32] AllHands is Canonical's yearly whole-company meeting; individual teams see each other reasonably frequently but it's not often that we meet other parts of the company [16:33] so its purposes include: [16:34] * learning about what other parts of the company are doing (which has an effect on what we do, even if it's not obvious at times; it is helpful to be aware of it) [16:35] * meetings about projects that are commercially-sensitive [16:35] * training sessions, perhaps on things that cross teams (Bazaar, Python, Launchpad, Landscape, etc.) [16:35] * induction for new staff, you know the sort of thing that happens at a real company :-) [16:36] * social interaction; it is much easier to work with people when you've chatted with them face to face [16:36] * paintball? ;) [16:37] :) [16:37] I'm sure there'll be some fun as well, yes :-) [16:37] the agenda so far is on the wiki, so please go and look [16:37] I'm so sorry I can't come to the uds :( Hope to be with you guys next year [16:40] so is this going to be similiar to UDS in that we might not be scheduled for a meeting but we're welcome to sit in on them? [16:40] yes, indeed generally encouraged if you aren't otherwise busy [16:40] if in doubt, feel free to ask [16:40] ok [16:40] there might be some private sessions but the worst that happens is that somebody apologises and tells you to go away :-) [16:41] haha [16:41] and the *really* last thing I have is to remind people that tomorrow is a free day off for the Canonical distro team [16:41] since we'll all be travelling and then working hard for quite a while [16:42] \o/ [16:42] good... need some time to pack my things. :) [16:42] me too [16:42] Oh, would anyone like to be a platform representative on some QA team tracks? [16:42] they have asked for somebody to help review technical plans [16:42] doesn't have to be a single person [16:43] sounds interesting [16:43] cjwatson: I'm happy to go to QA sessions [16:43] excellent; in particular they have some automatic testing work that's going to bleed over into things we do [16:44] OK, if I don't get round to explicitly scheduling you guys for it, please go along as you have time [16:44] ok [16:44] I'll be in the automatic testing meeting for sure [16:45] right, sounds like that's a wrap, so adjourned. Bonne voyage! [16:45] and see you all in Boston :-) [16:45] see y'all in Cambridge :) [16:45] see you all in boston :) [16:45] thanks [16:46] safe travels to all [16:46] cjwatson: thanks [16:46] thanks [16:46] thanks [16:46] cya all! [16:47] cjwatson: BTW: when we arrive at the Hotel, do we have some scheduled meeting time, or do we just check in ourselves and look who is there already? [16:50] ArneGoetje: I'll let cjwatson reply as well, but my experience has always been that the first night is there to get settled in and hang out. So you check in and look for familiar faces (or announce yourself on IRC if you're new) [16:53] cjwatson: have a nice day off, and a nice trip. :) [16:53] ArneGoetje: yes, what evand said. There are usually folks around in the lobby or the bar, but failing that, get a head-start on the jetlag :-) [16:54] cjwatson: ok, I'll try... with 13 hours time difference that's tough. :) [16:55] yay, finally no jet lag [16:55] 13h ouch [16:57] BTW: do we have a special IRC channel or do we just use the usual ones? [16:59] meh, doesn't look like the QA meeting is o the Fridge schedule [17:00] but I take it the chan is free [17:01] heno, how are you? [17:01] I see no objections [17:01] heno, shall we start? [17:01] hey, simira :) [17:01] I see a liw also! [17:01] hi, simira [17:01] hi :) when did you convert to ubuntu? [17:02] * pedro_ waves [17:02] * ogasawara is here [17:02] well, have a nice meeting, I'm heading home for dinner [17:02] * stgraber too [17:02] simira, http://liw.iki.fi/liw/log/2007-09.html#20070924b -- exactly one month ago [17:02] ArneGoetje: there's usually a #uds-boston or some such channel. [17:02] * bdmurray is lurking in the shadows [17:03] ok, let's start [17:03] shall I chair? heno? stgraber? [17:03] liw: wow, grats! [17:03] liw: you're going to Boston then, lucky... [17:03] liw: go ahead :) [17:03] (I'm not the least jealous... :( ) [17:03] I've not done this before, let's hope I'm not messing things up [17:03] #startmeeting [17:03] Meeting started at 17:03. The chair is liw. [17:03] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [17:04] we don't have much of an agenda prepared [17:04] [TOPIC] post-release bug status [17:04] New Topic: post-release bug status [17:04] I just posted a straw man one now [17:04] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam -- right, at the bottom of the page now [17:05] my favourite bug graph this week http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/testing_graphs/plots/update-manager-month-unconfirmed.png [17:05] what's the situation with bugs now, almost a week after the release? [17:05] uh oh, that doesn't look good [17:05] poor mvo really gets flooded just after release [17:05] mvo? [17:06] we should help out with these I think [17:06] I think some of them are invalid, just temporary issues with mirrors, etc [17:06] bdmurray: can you try some bughelper duplication-finding magic on those? [17:06] liw: hello [17:06] do I read that graph correctly: it shows the number of new, untriaged bugs each day? [17:07] are there lots of apport-generated ones? [17:07] that is quite possible [17:07] yes, those are mostly auto-generated [17:07] we have e.g. ~50 duplicates for a adept bug, let me dig the bugnumber [17:08] liw: right, see http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/testing_graphs/update-manager.html for the interactive version [17:08] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/154771 [17:08] 153500 maybe? [17:08] Launchpad bug 154771 in update-manager "Kubuntu 7.10 Upgrading to Kubuntu 7.10 and after gives error and says Distribution is Up To Date" [Undecided,Confirmed] [17:08] is there automation for finding duplicated, automatically reported bugs? [17:08] bdmurray: yes, that is the other one [17:08] http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/testing_graphs/ for other packages [17:08] LINK received: http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/testing_graphs/ for other packages [17:09] the problem with the update-manager bugs is that each update problem gets to this package first [17:09] liw: I believe ther is for crash reports [17:09] liw, for stacktraces yes, don't know if there's one for that kind of issues [17:09] mvo: so you don't sound too worried [17:09] even if its really a bug in e.g. a postinst [17:10] its certainly not good [17:10] our upgrade is fragile, mostly because of the fact that for ~2000 installed package ~4000 maintainer scripts gets run and some are really fragile [17:11] it used to be a upgrade error if e.g. invoke-rc.d can't stop a daemon [17:11] -> maintainer script failre, upgrade error [17:11] mvo, do you think the fragility could be lessened by more vigorous pre-release testing using automated tools? === asac___ is now known as asac_ [17:11] mvo: did you find anything out about the medibuntu repo ones? [17:12] mvo: I guess you and liw should talk a bit about upgrade testing at UDS [17:12] same for .e.g python. if python-central is not able to compile py modules (e.g. because of locally installed stuff) the upgrade may fail [17:12] liw: to a certain extend yes [17:12] liw: one big issue is that we do not test universe packages enough for upgradability [17:12] mvo: what's the limiting factor on test coverage; coding tests or HW to run on? [17:12] bdmurray: what are the medibuntu-related ones ? [17:12] we made python a bit less fragile in the gutsy cycle by at least ensuring that debconf doesn't fail to configure in that case [17:12] mvo, we should test universe packages as well, certainly [17:13] liw: but then its a problem with our paradigma, maintainer script fails -> upgrade fails [17:13] imagine if we wanted to run a silly amt of permutations of upgrade scenarios [17:13] heno: time [17:13] mvo: as in dev time? [17:13] bug 153948 is an example [17:13] Launchpad bug 153948 in rosetta "Launchpad translations take a plain '%' char as a format string when it's not a format string" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153948 [17:13] cjwatson: yes, I think we do better than before (with invoke-rc.d as well) [17:13] bdmurray: no, sorry [17:13] Lutin: bug 153958 is an example [17:13] Launchpad bug 153958 in update-manager "update-manager problem when upgrading from Feisty to Gutsy" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153958 [17:13] heno: dev time to setup the tests [17:14] heno: the currently available auto-upgrade tester could test universe as well, the code is there [17:14] bdmurray: this url has been deprecated for months [17:14] heno: but it takes time to generate the base image for the upgrade test and especially in universe quite a few packages fail to install [17:14] I wonder how many of the bugs we are getting involve universe packages [17:14] Lutin: well, apparently not everyone knows that [17:15] it would be possible to set up piuparts for example to break invoke-rc.d and see what happens, might be an interesting thing to do [17:15] heno: the other issue is that the upgrade takes a lot of time with a lot of packages [17:15] heno: I did tests with ~12000 installed packages and dpkg eat ~500 mb of real mem [17:15] bdmurray: unfortunately :/ [17:16] mvo, that's thankfully a problem that can be solved by throwing hardware at it [17:16] liw: if invoke-rc.d is broken, every upgraded daemon fails and that makes the upgrade fail (or at least it gives scary errors) [17:16] mvo: right, I'm thinking it would be cool to combine this with other tests, like server testing that needs HW anyway [17:16] right [17:16] mvo, right, the point would be to see how much stuff breaks by that kind of thing [17:17] right [17:17] so just to wrap up the topic: [17:17] bdmurray: does this kind of bug _break_ the upgrade ? I wouldn't believe it [17:17] I didn't managed to analyze the bugreports fully yet, but from what i have seen over the weekend it seem a lot of errors are releated to getting the upgrades because of server overload (especially mirrors) and then packages breaking during the upgrade === asac_ is now known as asac [17:18] bdmurray, pedro_, ogasawara: would you say the bug report impact from the release has been noticeable, but not alarming? [17:18] heno: yes [17:18] i thought it would be worse [17:19] we indeed get a lot of reports during the weekend but nothing alarming [17:19] ok, great [17:19] next topic? [17:19] my concern is us fallling further behind in the next 2 weeks though [17:19] [AGREED] the bug report impact from the release has been noticeable, but not alarming [17:19] AGREED received: the bug report impact from the release has been noticeable, but not alarming [17:20] [TOPIC] mobile platform test cases [17:20] New Topic: mobile platform test cases [17:20] bdmurray: with UDS and AllHands getting in the way, true [17:21] any one here have experience with the mobile platform? [17:21] not me [17:21] heno: I don't [17:21] i dont... [17:22] I've used a mobile device before. ;) [17:22] we need some better test plans there; But I'll email some people [17:23] (it was worth asking :) ) ; ok, next topic [17:23] [TOPIC] testing plans for hardy [17:23] New Topic: testing plans for hardy [17:24] I seem to remember we had various long-term issues we wanted to discuss last week, but cut short [17:24] hence the general testing and bug topics on the agenda [17:25] has everyone going to UDS looked at the proposed topics and subscribed? [17:25] I'm trying to find the log from the previous meeting [17:26] I've looked at and subscribed to all relevant UDS topics I know of [17:26] you need to subscribe to the specs to be scheduled for the meetings [17:26] * ogasawara needs to subscribe then [17:26] yeah, please do that before UDS starts [17:26] http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.log.20071017_1719.html -- that should be our previous meeting [17:26] LINK received: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.log.20071017_1719.html -- that should be our previous meeting [17:27] I'll go through the list later today and subscribe other distro people to things that seem relevant as well [17:28] nothing much in that log, though [17:28] I'll re-iterate my intention of concentrating, to the extent possible, on automating tests, starting with using existing tools of various kinds [17:29] anyone else? [17:29] right; system-level stuff before new year (est.) and then make a start on gui-based testing after new year [17:29] anything else? [17:29] yeah, like that [17:30] I have another topic: QA resource page [17:31] let's do the remainign one in the wiki first [17:31] [TOPIC] bug management plans for hardy [17:31] New Topic: bug management plans for hardy [17:31] I have the feeling we should try to keep the number of untriaged bugs and the number of open bugs as low as possible -- it's easier to do triage if there's only a small number of bugs to work on [17:31] but I haven't participated in triage at all yet [17:32] a noble goal [17:33] let's see if it is a practical one as well [17:33] anything else about bug management? [17:33] that either means cloning more triagers, tightening policy (closing more bugs), making it more difficult to file bugs, etc. [17:33] I think writing some bughelper clue files for previous high profile bugs to identify duplicates and cleanup some packages might be worthwhile [17:34] which may all be valid choices [17:34] bdmurray: 'clean up some packages' -> the clue files for them? [17:36] Like mvo mentioned an update-manager bug earlier, lets write a clue file for that and other update-manager bugs and see how many dupes we can find and what affect that has on the number of update-manager bugs [17:37] bdmurray: right, this is a good time for that as we're not under the pressure of a release [17:37] Sorry I'm late :( [17:37] well, we also need to keep an eye out for sru candidate bugs [17:37] but I think some of the reports may help with that [17:38] SRU? [17:38] stable release update [17:38] ta [17:40] anything else on this topic? [17:41] next? [17:41] [TOPIC] QA resource page [17:41] New Topic: QA resource page [17:41] heno? [17:41] I just posted this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Resources [17:42] I'd like us to bring up a few on-line resources about QA at these meetings each week [17:42] there is lots we can all learn out there [17:42] as a new team I think that would be valuable [17:43] I agree [17:43] We could all just add links to that page, but I'd like them to be mentioned here in some way [17:43] a long list of links is not that useful [17:44] mentioning them here would be good [17:44] also, perhaps adding a few words of description to each link? [17:44] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Resources [17:44] I wonder if we could ask each person to bring one item to the meeting each week and say two lines about it? [17:44] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Resources [17:45] I'd rather have people mention anything they happen to find [17:45] it could be an article, research paper, good blog entry about QA, video, etc. [17:45] in a repeating topic that happens every week [17:45] ok, that works too [17:45] sounds good :) [17:46] I'll add that topic to the agenda now so we don't forget [17:46] And what is the purpose? I'd have to stop doing something else to do this. [17:46] these are not required reading of course, just recommended :) [17:46] bdmurray: if you don't feel it helps you then you don't need to [17:47] you might want to glance at what is being posted though [17:47] I'd certainly like to, but I'm quite uncertain where to fit it in [17:47] I follow programming.reddit.com and they fairly often have testing stuff there, so I'd be more than happy to mention anything there [17:48] bdmurray: you mean about finding links or looking at other people's submissions? [17:48] heno: both. ;) [17:48] I think an useful links that further the cause can only be a good thing :) [17:48] right, the google tech talks are quite long, about an hour [17:50] bdmurray: you could post an informative bug search from your weekly work that new community people might find useful [17:51] heno: okay, I'll see what I can come up with [17:53] so: anyone is welcome to bring what they have, and anyone is welcome to make what use they can of what is brought -- are we in agreement? :) [17:53] I guess this is something I'm used to fro my university days; lunch-time talks [17:53] I think so [17:53] any other topics? [17:53] any other business? [17:53] :) [17:54] oh, the open week sessions went really well! [17:54] When will the next meeting be? [17:54] bdmurray, pedro_, liw: well done! [17:54] bdmurray, good point [17:54] hm, we should schedule one during UDS [17:54] yes, Is there a way that we can log our hardware fully? So that it gets added to bugs and reports save having to add it each time? [17:54] with in-person and voip [17:55] heno, would it be best to do that scheduling on site when we know what the uds schedule looks like? [17:55] right, should we punt that decision to Monday? [17:55] davmor2, the reportbug(-ng) program could perhaps be adapted to report bugs to launchpad [17:56] heno, I'd say we should punt to Monday [17:56] davmor2: I'd like to start using hwtest for this [17:56] any links for hwtest? [17:56] it produces an XML file that we can store different places [17:57] it should be an ubuntu app [17:57] * heno looks for it [17:57] when did we remove that from the menus? [17:58] I thought it was run once thing [17:58] okay cool. I'm thinking that in testing senario's it may speed things up if every tester with intel cpu is having issues where as everyone with amd's are fine same for 32 and 64 bit etc. [17:58] That is why it isn't in the menu [17:59] However, I don't recall seeing it when doing Gutsy installs [17:59] I think it was there in the old days, but removed for the reason you stated [18:00] let's take that question to the mailing list ... [18:00] anything else for this meeting? [18:00] bdmurray: should that be announced somewhere, should we just start using it? [18:01] heno are you on about ubuntu device database? [18:01] heno: that what? [18:01] davmor2: yes [18:01] bdmurray: ubuntu-qa mailing list [18:01] it's hidden in system tools [18:01] (sorry, unclear) [18:02] ubuntu-qa has a mailing list ? [18:02] davmor2: yeah, I haven't looked at it in a bit and no is subscribed but we thought we would start using it for this [18:03] so I need to double check the config then we can start using it [18:03] bdmurray: can you post some info to the bugsquad list and place a link in the wiki, etc. when it's ready? [18:04] or we can just subscribe and go? [18:04] sorry, was afk for quite a long time :) [18:05] why don't we just start using it and see what happens [18:05] davmor2: let's play with that app a bit and brainstorm on the new list [18:06]