[00:01]  * desertc looks around for Persia, the noble shining knight who has always saved desertc's packages in the past.
[00:01]  * desertc mutters something about heroes being ineligible for taking vacations.
[02:13] <jdong> bluekuja: hey, made some upstream contact with the guy in Debian that does Azureus packaging -- he apparently has 3.0.3.4 fully packaged now. I'm gonna take a look at it for Hardy, but currently I still want 2.5.0.4 for Gutsy because it's more mature (we can later introduce 3.0.3.4 via backports should SWT 3.3 prove to be trivial to backport)
[02:21] <jdong> hardy's not open for upload, right?
[02:23] <ajmitch> it seems to be open enough
[02:23] <jdong> ajmitch: ooh really? :)
[02:23] <ajmitch> people are uploading, stuff is being autosynced
[02:24] <jdong> ajmitch: ooohhh
[02:24] <jdong> *jumps up and down*
[02:24] <ajmitch> oh dear
[02:24]  * ajmitch leaves
[02:24] <jdong> hahaha
[02:27] <TheMuso> Yep, free rain at hardy for the moment.
[02:27] <TheMuso> s/rain/run/
[02:27] <TheMuso> c
[02:27] <TheMuso> ugh
[02:32] <jdong> bluekuja: Azureus 2.5.0.4 package good for upload into hardy, at your leisure: http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/azureus_2.5.0.4-1ubuntu2.dsc
[02:33]  * Hobbsee waves
[02:33]  * jdong waves back at Hobbsee 
[02:34] <ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
[02:34] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[02:37] <eolo999> quit
[02:38] <jdong> Is the use of Closes: #bugno statements mandatory for bugs or just convenience?
[02:39] <Hobbsee> jdong: mandatory
[02:39] <Hobbsee> wlel, i'ts a Good Idea
[02:39] <TheMuso> And it saves time.
[02:39] <persia> jdong: Greatly preferred, but not mandatory.  It is mandatory that bugs closed by an upload that don't contain it must be later closed by the person making the change.
[02:39] <persia> (e.g., if a fix "should work", but you need confirmation from someone with specialised hardware, etc.)
[02:40] <jdong> persia: at this point I'm "not certain" that htis will be the fix
[02:40] <jdong> bug 57875 that is....
[02:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
[02:40] <jdong> which sectuion does it close?
[02:40] <jdong> just the Ubuntu one?
[02:41] <persia> jdong: If you're not certain, LP: #nnnn may not be right.  It should close the task for the target specified in the upload.
[02:41] <jdong> persia: yeah, I have concerns that it's overconfident to close the bug report with this upload without a bunch of confirmations...
[02:41] <persia> (and avoid "Closes:", that is syntax for uploads to Debian)
[02:41] <ScottK> It should.  If it doesn't it's an LP bug.
[02:42] <Hobbsee> jdong: people will whine on the bug if it doesnt fix ti
[02:42] <ScottK> People will whine on the bug even if it does.
[02:42] <jdong> Hobbsee: so you feel I should do LP #nnnn?
[02:42] <persia> jdong: If you don't close it in the changelog, be sure to coordinate follow-up testing, and update the bug as soon as you know for sure.
[02:43] <jdong> persia: it's my primary pet bug at this point, so yeah I'll be following closely with it
[02:46] <Hobbsee> jdong: LP: #nnnn yes
[02:46] <persia> Hobbsee: even if the upload might not fix the bug?
[02:47] <Hobbsee> well, it's probably helpful to let people know that there's action on it
[02:47]  * persia wishes there was support for "Closes: LP #nnnnn" vs. "May help with LP #nnnnn"
[02:48] <jdong> persia: agreed -- there should be a way to associate an upload with a bug without changing its status
[02:48] <persia> jdong: Do you happen to have time now to file a wishlist bug against Soyuz? :)
[02:49] <jdong> persia: sure, sounds more fun than reading about recombinant DNA :)
[02:49] <persia> jdong: Thanks.  Please subscribe me.
[02:56] <ScottK> jdong: "Gutsy Backports does not use Launchpad as its bug tracker. "
[02:57] <jdong> ScottK: duh talk about me being braindead
[02:57] <jdong> persia: is your LP name also persia?
[02:57] <persia> jdong: Yep.
[02:57] <jdong> persia: k, you're subscribed :)
[02:58] <ajmitch> hello StevenK. finished all your merges yet?
[02:58] <StevenK> Uh huh.
[02:58] <StevenK> So, no. :-P
[02:58]  * ScottK did one.
[02:58] <ajmitch> the freeze is almost upon us
[02:58] <imbrandon> is finished with his, guess i should grab someone elses
[02:58] <Hobbsee> oh no, not already!  :P
[02:59] <persia> Freeze?  Another freeze so soon?
[02:59] <ScottK> Why not.
[02:59] <ajmitch> persia: well, december 13
[02:59] <imbrandon> persia, yea it seems dev cycles went from 5 months to 5 weeks as of late
[03:00] <ajmitch> I'm sure that the few weeks from now until dec 13 will go quickly enough
[03:00] <persia> ajmitch: That's only sync freeze, no?
[03:00] <ajmitch> sure, and the general sync deadline
[03:00] <ajmitch> though it's fine to keep going until feature freeze
[03:01] <ajmitch> the import freeze doesn't make much difference for universe & merging
[03:01] <imbrandon> thought there was no ff anymore
[03:01] <persia> Ah.  Right.  I tend to try to keep up with updates until UVF, but not as hard.
[03:01] <imbrandon> no ff and uvf anymore iirc
[03:01] <ajmitch> imbrandon: no UVF anymore on the schedule
[03:01] <imbrandon> new freeze names
[03:01] <ajmitch> and no 'new package freeze'
[03:01] <persia> imbrandon: What's the new name for FF+UVF+NPUF?
[03:01] <ajmitch> it's all rolled into feature freeze
[03:01]  * jdong pbuilders icedtea-java7
[03:02] <tonyyarusso> I think we should just refer to it as AFAFPOAIFSNGOSADIGPSAFF
[03:02]  * ScottK calls firsts on gutsy-backports requests.
[03:02] <persia> tonyyarusso: What's the expansion on that?  It's a good name, but I like to understand...
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> persia: "I smacked my keyboard and made suer it ended with an F"
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> ScottK: drupal5 needs a new version, but it's a security thing, so preferably not just a backport.
[03:03] <ScottK> Definitely not.
[03:04]  * ScottK waits on the Hardy New queue now.
[03:04] <jdong> [jdong@jdong:src/prevu]$ apt-cache showsrc icedtea-java7          (10-23 22:02)
[03:04] <jdong> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), cdbs, autotools-dev, unzip, zip, bzip2, m4, lsb-release, wget, procps, g++-4.2 [amd64], g++-4.1 [i386 lpia], ant, icedtea-java7-jdk,
[03:04] <jdong> *blink*
[03:04] <jdong> WHAT???
[03:05] <jdong> how can a package demand itself as a build dependency?
[03:05] <persia> jdong: self-hosting bootstrap.
[03:05] <jdong> persia: s... so how do I get the chicken egg?
[03:05] <persia> jdong: See gcc for another example
[03:05] <imbrandon> bootstrap
[03:06] <persia> jdong: You need to bootstrap the chicken, and then use the package to make the egg.  try building first with the java6 JDK, and see what happens.
[03:06] <imbrandon> compile and dep and use equivs ?
[03:06] <imbrandon> heh
[03:06] <jdong> well I'm trying to get a backport of icedtea to feisty
[03:06] <jdong> rather evaluate if that's possible
[03:06] <ajmitch> jdong: sacrifice a few chickens while you're at it
[03:07] <jdong> so do I have to build icedtea with another java stack first?
[03:07] <persia> jdong: It's non-trivial, as you'll need to double (or likely triple) build on the buildds to get a distributable package.
[03:07] <jdong> persia: hmm.... that sounds like... fun?
[03:07] <jdong> well I'll save this for another day, don't have time now, but yeah, one day you guys are gonna have to coach me on this a bit more :)
[03:07] <imbrandon> most bootstrapping on the buildd's is manual too, good luck asking someone heh
[03:08] <persia> jdong: If you don't build against another stack, you need to build against a binary pull somewhere).  You might get in touch with the last bootstrapper for some hints on the process.
[03:08] <imbrandon> like fpc did iirc
[03:08] <jdong> persia: yeah, I'll put that on my pokelist
[03:09] <ajmitch> doko can probably tell you about the magic required
[03:09] <ScottK> lamont has a had a fair amount of practice with self-bootstrapping stuff trying to get HPPA up.  He'll probably kick me for mentioning that, but oh well.
[03:12] <jdong> ajmitch: I'm gonna e-mail doko
[03:13] <ajmitch> ok, thanks for informing me of your intent to do so ;)
[03:13] <jdong> ajmitch: certainly ;-)
[03:13] <jdong> ajmitch: I am now going to read more about restriction enzymes :)
[03:13] <persia> jdong: You might also want to try to get snapshot patches for each of the uploaded revisions from patches.ubuntu.com, which may provide some background for the discussion.
[03:18] <ajmitch> jdong: you do that, and I'll get back to having *far* too much fun with PHP
[03:19] <imbrandon> mmmm Mt Dew
[03:19] <jdong> ajmitch: Paamayim Nekudotayim == scope resolution operator :)
[03:19] <jdong> might come in handy some day.
[03:19] <jdong> talk about a frightening error message to get
[03:19]  * ajmitch stabs
[03:19] <ajmitch> persia: topic diff? :)
[03:20] <persia> ajmitch: "Herron" -> "Heron"
[03:20] <jdong> I like the way you merge that right herr?
[03:20]  * jdong shoots himself for that reference :D
[03:20] <imbrandon> err time that beat goes ...
[03:21] <ajmitch> persia: it could have been worse
[03:21] <ajmitch> just take any comment on the name from jdub
[03:22] <persia> ajmitch: True.  Then again, there could have been an email to ubutu-devel-announce@.  It's really a balance.
[03:24] <persia> joejaxx: When you have a chance, could you update the stats checker to hunt hardy?
[03:28]  * jdong goes and tags 90% of the "Azureus blah blah blah blah blah" bugs dupes
[03:29] <jdong> actually, I'll just NEEDINFO them later...
[03:34] <imbrandon> ugh
[04:46] <lamont> jdong: bootstrapping is trivial.  first you get a working binary.  then  you build the package. :-)
[04:46] <lamont> the key phrase at some early stage is "cross compiler"
[04:47] <lamont> fwiw, most of the self-depending packages are compilers.
[04:47] <lamont> although good old xfree86 was self-build-depending.  Just not directly.
[04:47] <lamont> made for a wonderfully recursive bootstrap.  xorg is love.
[04:48] <jdong> lamont: I think I know how to do it by hand on my machine, but not how to do it for a feisty-backports upload... that's something beyond my scope
[04:48] <lamont> jdong: that part is easy.  you work with infinity or myself, and somehow convince us to have time to deal with it for you.
[04:49] <lamont> since that's the only way to bootstrap in the data center.
[04:49]  * ajmitch wonders what beer lamont likes
[04:49] <jdong> lamont: ah, ok; well some day when I don't have exams coming up, we should talk more :)
[04:49] <lamont> (buildd-admin with root-shell access on the build machines in the DC)
[04:49] <persia> lamont: Couldn't one (assuming archive-admin collaboration) just upload successive versions with adjusted build processes to fake it?
[04:49] <lamont> ajmitch: none, actually.
[04:49] <ajmitch> lamont: that does make things harder
[04:49] <lamont> persia: that has been done.
[04:50] <jdong> ajmitch: not like I can buy it for him in this country though :)
[04:50] <lamont> icedtea7-java would be a challenge in that regard though.
[04:50] <lamont> jdong: just use gutsy? :-)
[04:51] <jdong> lamont: if it's a PITA, I won't bother, I'll just reject the SRU for the bug
[04:51] <ajmitch> jdong: yeah, I forgot about those silly laws :)
[04:52] <persia> SRU?  Backport request?
[04:52] <ScottK> jdong: I think it's going to be a backport for Feisty no matter what (iced-tea isn't sneaking in via -updates)
[04:53] <jdong> persia: SRU for Gutsy, SRU impossible for feisty, backport for feisty is only route
[04:53] <ScottK> SRU for Gutsy is the way to go.
[04:53] <jdong> ScottK: that's what I was thinking
[04:53] <ScottK> Cool
[04:53] <persia> jdong: OK.  That makes more sense.  I feared you were planning SRU to feisty through NEW of icedtea :)
[04:53] <ScottK> persia: We got pitti to buy off on a microversion SRU for Gutsy today modulo jdong fixes the package.
[04:53] <lamont> jdong: bootstrapping is always a PITA
[04:54] <jdong> persia: ROFL that would be quite a feat to sneak past my superiors :)
[04:54] <jdong> ScottK: I've got the fixed package ready for hardy upload....
[04:55] <ScottK> Cool.  I about to head to bed.  persia likes Java.  I bet he'd upload it.
[04:55]  * persia is trapped on Apple Tiger, and can't do anything useful at all for the next many hours
[04:55] <jdong> haha, already pinged (blue)(kuja) abut it, let's wait till he wakes up
[04:55] <jdong> don't want to have a double-upload happen again from my impatience :)
[04:56]  * persia thinks the U-U-S queue is a good way to coordinate against double-upload
[04:56]  * ajmitch would rather avoid touching java
[04:56] <persia> ajmitch: How about tea?
[04:56]  * superm1 sneaks in
[04:56] <jdong> persia: yeah, it is, but I bet he'd find it personally satisfying to pull the trigger on this bug :)
[04:56] <superm1> jdong, you looking for sponsoring?
[04:57] <persia> jdong: Surely.
[04:57] <ajmitch> persia: sure, but not iced tea
[04:57] <persia> (but he may not have a chance)
[04:57] <jdong> superm1: yeah, I guess, I already pinged one person on it... :)
[04:57] <jdong> alright, I'm gonna go to sleep now, test tomorrow morning
[04:58] <superm1> jdong, oh ok
[04:58] <StevenK> persia: You mean you don't have an account on a useful machine?
[04:58] <persia> StevenK: Not anywhere I'd trust my key
[04:58] <imbrandon> persia, debsign -r
[04:59] <StevenK> If the OS X machine even has the key ...
[04:59] <imbrandon> OS X ?
[04:59]  * persia considers carrying a USB stick, but currently spends the day keyless
[05:00] <StevenK> [13:55] * persia is trapped on Apple Tiger, and can't do anything useful at all for the next many hours
[05:00] <StevenK> imbrandon: What do you think Tiger is?
[05:00] <persia> imbrandon: My current client is an all-Apple shop, and likes on-site attention.
[05:00] <imbrandon> ahhh, fink
[05:00] <StevenK> Hey, wait, isn't Tiger not out yet?
[05:00] <StevenK> Or is Tiger 10.4?
[05:00] <persia> StevenK: That's Leopard (and I'm glad upgrading is not in my scope)
[05:00] <StevenK> Ahh, right.
[05:01] <imbrandon> fink-install gnupg
[05:01] <imbrandon> ?
[05:01] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:01] <persia> imbrandon: Yes, perhaps, eventually.  Doesn't help jdong today.
[05:01] <StevenK> persia: My mapping of big cats to OS X releases is fairly bad.
[05:02] <persia> StevenK: No worries.  I read a recent review of Gutsy that complained that monkeys, rodents, and birds weren't very professional.  I'm just happy to have company in the animal codename market.
[05:03] <StevenK> Well, the official name is "7.10", how isn't that professional? :-)
[05:03] <sacater> :o
[05:03] <sacater> Heron!
[05:03] <sacater> Hardy Heron or something?
[05:04] <tonyyarusso> Hardy Heron is the development codename for 8.04, yes.
[05:04] <sacater> cool
[05:04] <sacater> i still think Hungry Hippo would be great
[05:06]  * persia thinks 7.04, 7.10, and 8.04? are perfectly professional.  Not every reviewer has that opinion (and "Hungry Hippo" isn't DFSG free)
[05:08] <sacater> i saw my mates linux mag yesterday, linux-something. Some awesome stuff about Ubuntu was said
[05:09] <sacater> Xubuntu mentioned too
[05:09] <sacater> :D
[05:09] <sacater> was oldish though, it was advertising 7.04
[05:28] <StevenK> Hrm.
[05:29] <ajmitch> hm?
[05:29] <StevenK> Is there an easy way to point pbuilder at some extra .debs to install?
[05:29] <ajmitch> yes
[05:29] <StevenK> Can I have a clue? :-)
[05:29] <ajmitch> I have a hook that runs dpkg-scanpackages, dumps a line into /etc/apt/sources.list, and runs apt-get update
[05:29] <ajmitch> and I bind mount the pbuilder results directory
[05:30] <StevenK> That sounds very useful.
[05:30] <ajmitch> works well enough, I think it's documented on the wiki
[05:30]  * StevenK guesses a page title.
[05:31] <ajmitch> PbuilderHowto?
[05:31] <ajmitch> !pbuilder
[05:31] <ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[05:31] <ajmitch> if it's not on there, you should just add it :)
[05:31] <ajmitch> ah, it is mostly there
[05:32] <StevenK> It already talks about doing it with mini-dinstall.
[05:32] <StevenK> I discovered I'm allergic to mini-dinstall
[05:33] <persia> StevenK: Any local repo should do, with any local repo method.  Just set up your local repo, and set the sources.list appropriately.
[05:34] <ajmitch> I find the hook & running dpkg-scanpackages to suffice, mostly
[05:34] <ajmitch> it's not the best option, and I get a lot of cruft built up
[05:34] <Burgundavia> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu#Release_Names <-- damn, somebody had better create that
[05:36] <pwnguin> sorry, i dont play pokemon
[05:36] <imbrandon> hahahah
[05:40] <Burgundavia> sudo make me commiebuntu
[05:58] <StevenK> /usr/bin/install: writing `/tmp/buildd/bluez-utils-3.20/debian/tmp/usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_ctl_bluetooth.so': No space left on device
[05:58] <StevenK> DOH!
[05:59] <imbrandon> ouch
[06:51] <nxvl> ScottK: ping
[06:53] <imbrandon> wow installing firefox ( proper ) on a debian box seems so ..... dirty
[06:53] <imbrandon> let alone a xbox with debian loaded , lol
[06:56]  * RAOF muses that he'll *almost* be able to sync miro from debian.
[06:56] <RAOF> Thinking of firefox.
[07:00] <StevenK> RAOF: Almost?
[07:03] <RAOF> Well, I think I'll still need to build against a different python.
[07:03] <RAOF> But no more shall there be a stupid xulrunner -> firefox-dev change in the build deps.
[07:04]  * StevenK looks at helixcommunity.org and feels his brain turning to mush
[07:04] <StevenK> RAOF: Hrm, why not?
[07:04]  * persia wonders if there is a schedule for Python2.5 in Debian
[07:05] <RAOF> StevenK: Because Hardy's firefox will be built on an actual xulrunner, so I assume that all the other packages will build against it, too.
[07:05] <StevenK> persia: After 2.6 is out. Bwaha
[07:05] <RAOF> (See asac's ubuntu-devel post)
[07:05]  * StevenK digs for it.
[07:06] <RAOF> Oh, that should be -devel-discus.
[07:06]  * persia fails to differentiate meaning, sarcasm, and sheer evilness
[07:06] <RAOF> persia: Some people are trying to transition to python 2.5.  That's why miro/democracy was broken in Sid for so long (yay libboost-python!)
[07:12] <Wybiral> I noticed Miro uses GtkMozembed which for some reason doesn't link to firefox? I'm using it in one of my apps and I have to use "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/firefox"
[07:13] <AnAnt> Hello
[07:13] <Wybiral> Does anyone know a better way (that's what Miro does too)?
[07:14] <AnAnt> I am doing a package that contains some wallpapers (artwork package), the wallpapers are originally taken from a website (with permission of that site), and then have been edited, how should the copyright file be in that case ?
[07:14] <AnAnt> some wallpapers (before editing) are with no license, some are with CC license
[07:16] <persia> AnAnt: You'll need to get a license for redistribution from the original artist.  In most cases, this can be resolved with a freindly email telling them where you got them, what you intend to do, and if they would license it to you under CC
[07:16] <persia> (technically, you need a license from the copyright holder, but this is usually the original artist, except in cases of direct assignment or work-for-hire)
[07:17] <persia> s/ei/ie/
[07:21]  * persia wonders how the MOTU team report in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/ is generated, and why it doesn't seem to reference the content of MOTU meetings
[07:21] <AnAnt> persia: ok, if some pictures are under CC already, what should be mentioned ini the copyrights file ?
[07:21] <AnAnt> persia: s/ini/in
[07:22] <persia> AnAnt: For the content that is already CC, you want to include the CC in debian/copyright (unless CC has become common), and not the copyright holders in the appropriate section in debian/copyright, with a note as to on which files they hold copyright.
[07:23] <AnAnt> persia: I shouldn't mention copyright holders ?
[07:23] <nxvl> can someone take a look please -> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/155487
[07:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155487 in gramps "Please merge gramps (2.2.9-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
[07:23] <persia> AnAnt: Umm.  Sorry.  s/not/note/ :)
[07:24] <Wybiral> persia, I'm new here, how would I go about finding the status of this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-python-extras/+bug/22487
[07:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 22487 in gnome-python-extras "python2.4-gnome2-extras: Python GtkMozEmbed bindings segfault on creating a GtkMozEmbed after destroying one" [Medium,Confirmed]
[07:25] <persia> nxvl: Have you been coordinating with tiagoboldt?  When someone else is working on bugs for a package, it's generally not considered best practice to prepare a candidate upload.
[07:25] <nxvl> persia: yes, he ask me to make a try
[07:26] <AnAnt> persia: copyright holders are the original artists ? or the one who done some editing on wallpapers or both ?
[07:27] <persia> Wybiral: First, it's best to ask things generally, rather than asking specific people, unless you believe that only that person has the answer.  Secondly, Python and Mozilla are not my strong points.  Third, the status is at the top of the page: the bug is confirmed, but nobody has yet claimed it.
[07:28] <Wybiral> OK
[07:28] <Wybiral> Thanks
[07:29] <persia> AnAnt: The original artists are very likely to have copyright.  The editor may have copyright, depending of the extent of originality (ask a lawyer: I can't define how much is enough).  Also, you'll need to know what license the editor had for the changes: the changes may have been made in violation of copyright (in which case you can resolve this by receiving approval from the copyright holder that the changes may be licensed under the target li
[07:30]  * StevenK tries to make sense of what the Helix framework is.
[07:30] <RAOF> StevenK: Isn't it basically Gstreamer, but worse?
[07:30] <persia> AnAnt: If the editor claims copyright, did not receive a license for redistribution, and includes too much of the original work to qualify as fair use, you need consensus from everyone.
[07:31] <AnAnt> oh
[07:31] <persia> nxvl: Thanks for the confirmation.  Is this ready to submit for review then?
[07:31] <RAOF> Wybiral: That *should* be fixed in Hardy, when xulrunner becomes the thing that all the gecko stuff links against.
[07:33] <Wybiral> OK, cool. Thanks RAOF.
[07:34] <RAOF> Wybiral: But, in general, no.  Packages should assume that the dynamic linker can link them to the libraries they need, rather than specifying a path manually (and this is normally the case; firefox is an annoying exception).
[07:36] <Wybiral> Yeah, I've never had to do that before, but I kept segfaulting if I didn't (I basically couldn't use gtkmozembed). Do you know what causes it?
[07:36] <RAOF> It's because gecko is used as a library, but isn't.
[07:37] <RAOF> Rather: there (was) no separate gecko library, but everything wanted to link against it/use it.  So they link against firefox, instead.
[07:38] <RAOF> But all the firefox libs live in /usr/lib/firefox, which isn't in the dynamic linker's path.
[07:38] <persia> nxvl: Quick hits: 1) The changelog doesn't mention changes to debian/rules, debian/control (except maintainer) or any of the text/translation changes, 2) dh_iconcache is now deprecated in favor of dh_icons, 3) The bug isn't subscribed to the sponsors team, so nobody has been advised this is ready for upload.
[07:38] <Wybiral> That's odd (probably not, but I've never dealt with this stuff before, I've always just been a coder, but now I want to help out some)
[07:39] <RAOF> Wybiral: No, it is odd.  Generally people only link against *libraries*, rather than random parts of other applications :)
[07:39] <Wybiral> How do you even do that?
[07:40] <nxvl> persia: ok, i will consider that and send a new one, thanks once again
[07:40] <RAOF> Wybiral: -L/usr/lib/firefox -lgtkmozembed :)
[07:41] <RAOF> Wybiral: The problem is, or was, that gecko was very nearly a separate library.  But not quite; firefox wouldn't run on an external gecko (and does, *finally*, with 3.0)
[07:43] <Wybiral> Oh, OK. I get it now. I thought you meant they linked with firefox (the actual binary file).
[07:44] <Wybiral> (by binary I mean the executable)
[07:44] <RAOF> Wybiral: No, just private libraries used by the executable :)
[07:45] <Wybiral> OK. That's not quite as weird. For a second I was like "WTF?"
[07:47] <Wybiral> But it's going to be straightened out in FF3?
[07:47] <RAOF> I'd content it's moderately wierd.  Which is why you have to jump through hoops to do it.
[07:47] <RAOF> Yes.  Gutsy's FF3 builds already use an external xulrunner, and Hardy's will too.
[07:48] <Wybiral> Awesome. Will that be accessible to other applications as well?
[07:49] <RAOF> Yeah.  It's going to be the default gecko provider, so everything should be built against it.
[07:50] <Wybiral> I haven't messed with the Mozilla source yet, I started compiling it one day but it's so huge... It's intimidating.
[07:56] <Wybiral> So, I'd love to help out around here. I'm especially experienced with C, C++, and Python. Is there any niche that I might be of use in?
[07:57] <persia> Wybiral: We'd love to have help tracking down the crashers, and putting in conditional checkers so that the applications don't crash.  There's plenty of apps in C, C++, and python that need that.  Does that sound interesting to you?
[07:58] <Wybiral> It sure does. Do you know of any simple ones that I can start with to get familiar with how things work?
[07:58] <persia> Wybiral: Simple bugs, or simple crashers?
[08:00] <Wybiral> Either one. Is there some "low priority" list that might help me get my feet wet?
[08:01] <persia> Wybiral: There are a bunch of bugs with the "bitesize" tag that are considered easy to fix.   Hold on a couple minutes, and I'll find you a stacktrace that makes sense.
[08:02] <Wybiral> OK
[08:03] <nxvl> persia: updated
[08:03] <persia> nxvl: Did you subscribe the sponsors?
[08:03] <nxvl> persia: yes i have
[08:03] <persia> nxvl: Excellent.  You should expect feedback soon.
[08:04] <nxvl> persia: ok, now i can sleep and have a good night knowing i gave another hand to the ubuntu proyect :D
[08:04] <persia> Wybiral: Do you use GNOME, KDE, xfce, or something else?
[08:05] <nxvl> persia: btw, i write a post about my first merge and thanking you and the ones who help me -> http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/?p=145
[08:05] <Wybiral> I'm a gnome user. I should add that I haven't upgraded to gutsy yet. The last time I tried I got all kinds of tzdata errors and had to switch back to feisty. If I have to, I'll try upgrading again.
[08:06] <persia> nxvl: Did you get the changes back to Debian for that as well?
[08:06] <persia> Wybiral: You'll need the gutsy source to track the problem, and you'll need a gutsy environment to test a solution, but feisty is fine for working out a solution.
[08:06] <nxvl> persia: oh yes, i send a e-mail to the DD and get a response, did u want me to forward it?
[08:07] <persia> nxvl: No need.  I just wanted to make sure.  Thanks for taking the extra time to make the merge easier next time.
[08:07] <nxvl> persia: i made all the changes to use dpatch and not touch the code, and send him the debdiff
[08:07] <persia> nxvl: Excellent :)
[08:08] <Wybiral> persia: OK. I'll try installing gutsy again today.
[08:08] <nxvl> persia: he said his going to use dpatch from now on, and about the bug, he will give a look in this days
[08:09] <persia> Wybiral: At a quick glance, bug #131993 looks like an array bounding error, although you may need a special input document to reproduce.  I'll keep looking for another one.
[08:09] <ubotu> Bug 131993 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/131993 is private
[08:09]  * persia grumbles, and looks for sensitive data
[08:09] <nxvl> how does karma works?
[08:09] <Wybiral> What kind of bugs are there usually to fix? I'm pretty used to programming isolated software, I've never done anything with the operating system before (and my knowledge of the kernel is minimal at best).
[08:10] <persia> Wybiral: No worries there.  There's lots of bugs to fix.  Most of what we do for Universe are leaf packages, so your prior experience would apply directly.
[08:11] <persia> nxvl: Nice work :)
[08:12] <Wybiral> persia: Sounds great
[08:13] <nxvl> persia: i wouldn't be able to do anything without your, norsetto's and huat's help, so thank you
[08:14] <persia> Wybiral: the URL ubotu provided previously should work.  I'll look for another one, just in case that one doesn't catch you.
[08:19] <Wybiral> persia: Does it say what input is causing it to crash?
[08:19] <Wybiral> (the w3m one)
[08:20] <persia> Wybiral: Bug #145413 might also be interesting: to trap properly when the resource isn't available (python), or Bug #145074: trapping failed calls to video status (C)
[08:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145413 in miro "miro.real crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145413
[08:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145074 in xgalaga "xgalaga-hyperspace crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145074
[08:21] <persia> Wybiral: I don't actually know anything about the bug beyond what is written on the page.  Looking at the stack trace briefly, I thought it might be a failure to properly check the array bounds when parsing a <table>, but I may be mistaken.
[08:25] <Wybiral> persia: If I can recreate it and do some exploring myself, I can definitely find it. I'm not as good at spotting the problem just from a stacktrace (hopefully I'll pick that up).
[08:27] <persia> Wybiral: Good luck.  If you want more candidates, search for "apport" on launchpad (although not all have nice sourceful backtraces)
[08:28] <RAOF> And none of the Xgl ones do, stupid stack corrution :(.
[08:30] <persia> RAOF: Regarding the miro/dbus issue: do you see value in trapping that cleanly, even though it shouldn't really happen?
[08:32] <RAOF> persia: Probably.  As far as I can remember, Miro only uses dbus to ensure there's only one miro instance running.  I think it should be fully functional without dbus.
[08:32] <persia> RAOF: OK.  Just wanted to check, as you're the miro master, and it was one of the easy crashers I'd listed.  Thanks.
[08:35] <RAOF> Yeah, thanks.
[08:37] <Wybiral> I should probably master reading stacktraces right? Or is most of it done with the actual source (which I think I would be better at).
[08:38] <persia> Wybiral: I find that I need both to figure out the problem.  The stacktrace indicates where it is broken, but only the source indicates what it is doing.  I usually start around #3 or #4 in the backtrace, and keep stepping out until I have some idea of the intended purpose of the failing function.
[08:39] <persia> Then, I step forward to the failure point to try to understand what went wrong.  Lastly, I try to pick a good point at which to trap (call between modules, call to function, etc.), and add a trap call, or verify the state prior to making the call.
[08:40] <persia> Ummm...  That should have read "call between modules / call to library / etc."
[08:41] <persia> Wybiral: You can sort of cheat with the StackTraceSource attachment, but it doesn't really provide the full understanding one needs to actually fix the problem.
[08:42] <nxvl> good night!
[08:45] <Wybiral> OK. I'm downloading the source. I guess I'll see if I reproduce it.
[08:45] <persia> Wybiral: That's another good way to find them.  Can you make anything crash? :)
[09:00] <Wybiral> Well this looks odd: "<td rowspan=674227123>"
[09:01] <Wybiral> As does this:
[09:01] <Wybiral> 	    if ((tbl->row + rowspan) >= tbl->max_rowsize)
[09:01] <Wybiral> 		check_row(tbl, tbl->row + rowspan);
[09:01] <persia> Wybiral: Yep.  That's a big number :)  Perhaps tables shouldn't be allowed to have that many rows? :)
[09:02] <Wybiral> It looks like the condition checks if it's greater than its limit, then goes ahead anyway (I think).
[09:06] <Wybiral> But maybe not... lol. It's tough debugging other peoples work.
[09:10] <Wybiral> Actually, I think check_row is expanding the table if the span is greater, so the segfault could be occurring in check_row.
[09:12] <huats> morning all
[09:12] <Wybiral> These people used mixed tabs and spaces for indents and they didn't comment anything! I bet you guys & girls probably encounter this a lot.
[09:14] <persia> Wybiral: Yep.  It's extremely common that we find these things, because they don't fail for any sane test cases, whereas we distribute to millions of users who do all sorts of things.
[09:16] <Wybiral> persia: Oh, I was referring to the actual source code.
[09:17] <persia> Wybiral: You mean the style and commenting?  That's unfortunately not uncommon, although some projects are better than others.  I'd say that finding code that doesn't do what the author expected is more common than really ugly code, but that might ust be the packages I've investigated.
[09:17] <persia> s/ust/just/
[09:21] <TheMuso> Hey dholbach
[09:21] <dholbach> good morning
[09:21] <dholbach> hey TheMuso
[09:27] <norsetto> morning all
[09:28] <imbrandon> heya fellas
[09:30] <huats> morning norsetto
[09:30] <huats> morning dholbach
[09:30] <dholbach> hey huats, hey norsetto
[09:31] <norsetto> huats: feeling better?
[09:31] <dholbach> huats: what happened? you're alright?
[09:31] <huats> norsetto: not really... I am at work but  I don't know what I am doing here...
[09:31] <huats> dholbach: I wasn't feeling very well yesterday evening... Ihad fever, I was cold...
[09:31] <norsetto> dholbach: morning, he is just trying to find excuses to be lolled by his gf
[09:31]  * dholbach hugs huats
[09:32] <huats> well all the great side of winter
[09:32] <dholbach> huats: get back to bed!
[09:32] <huats> :-)
[09:32] <huats> dholbach: I will think about that in the day....
[09:32]  * huats hugs back dholbach  and norsetto
[09:33] <norsetto> huats: hey, you can be contagious :-)
[09:33] <huats> norsetto: yep
[09:33] <huats> may be
[09:33]  * huats shakes hand of norsetto  and dholbach
[09:34]  * norsetto wash his hands ;-)
[09:34] <huats> ;-)
[09:34] <huats> norsetto: I was wondering about the merge... Do I have to fill a bug in launchpad to report it, so that I can attach the debdiff ?
[09:34] <norsetto> huats: yes, if there isn't one already
[09:35] <huats> ok
[09:42] <huats> norsetto: the debdiff that I have to attach...
[09:43] <huats> is between the latest debian and the proposed ubuntu or between the latest ubuntu and the proposed ubuntu one ?
[09:43] <huats> latest debian/proposed ubuntu right ?
[09:53] <norsetto> huats: its debatable, some sponsors wants to see the delta from debian to be able to judge yor work. Therefore its old ubuntu->new ubuntu. SOme other sponsors are confused if you do that, they expect a debian-> new ubuntu, so, what I did as a contributor was attaching both
[09:55] <norsetto> I really don't know, why is people not listening, why do I have to repeat 3 times the same stupid thing
[09:55] <norsetto> huats: that wasn't meant at you :-)
[09:56] <huats> norsetto: I was about to ask you :-)
[09:56] <norsetto> hauts: I'm an old grumbler anyhow ;-)
[09:57] <huats> do say that
[09:57] <huats> you are not even as old as my gran dady ;-)
[09:58] <norsetto> huats: there is always somebody older than you .....
[09:58] <norsetto> huats: even if they are thinning rapidly :-/
[09:59] <huats> you are to hard with yourself
[10:01] <norsetto> huats: oh don't worry, I'm used to that, I had to live with myself for long enough
[10:01] <huats> :-)
[10:03] <tonyyarusso> Oh boy
[10:03] <tonyyarusso> Someone turned on the auto-syncer
[10:09] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Yeah, it has been running for a while now... quite a bit to sync.
[10:09] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: remind me some time (later) that I need to find out how to get a package into Debian too.
[10:15] <norsetto> tonyyarusso: leave any hopes you who are about to enter
[10:16] <tonyyarusso> norsetto: Eh, I just need to remember not to let my e-mail go unchecked for a day or two
[10:16] <norsetto> tonyyarusso: :-)
[10:17] <pkern> Does anyone know how to recompile the kernel "the Ubuntu way"? The Debian way doesn't work. And I'm so deeply disappointed by Gutsy for hardware incompatibility.
[10:17] <imbrandon> zomg , gmail finaly has IMAP ( well for some accounts ) sadly my main account dident get the first round
[10:17] <Fujitsu> pkern: Isn't there a README.source or so in debian/?
[10:17] <pkern> imbrandon: IMAP "beta" or what?
[10:17] <imbrandon> pkern, there is a wiki page about it
[10:17] <Fujitsu> The build system was rewritten early in Gutsy, IIRC.
[10:17] <Fujitsu> pkern: Hah.
[10:18] <pkern> There surely is a wiki page about it.
[10:18] <imbrandon> yea the gutsy build system is totaly rtedone
[10:18] <pkern> But whyever kernel-package and its make-kpkg does not work in a sensible way with the Gutsy kernel...
[10:18] <imbrandon> i just spent 2 days adding a new FS ;)
[10:18] <pkern> And I will beat xserver-xorg to death next time I see it.
[10:19] <norsetto> pkern: please add a couple of kicks from me too
[10:19] <imbrandon> pkern, if you are just needing to fix a module try linux-ubuntu-modules
[10:19] <imbrandon> or linux-backport-modules
[10:19] <pkern> To fix a module. )':
[10:19] <pkern> Well, fglrx-driver-source does not even work IN ANY WAY.
[10:20] <pkern> Ok yeah I admit, I used the alternate installer, but still it shouldn't be necessary to invoke the rescue mode to do fixups directly after installation.
[10:22] <pkern> Most fun was when I discovered that the -rt kernel is actually compiled with SLAB instead of SLUB.
[10:22] <pkern> But still doesn't suspend on amd64, hah.
[10:30] <imbrandon> zomg i'm in love
[10:37] <norsetto> imbrandon: sorry, I'm already engaged
[10:37] <imbrandon> lol , with gmail IMAP
[10:39] <Fujitsu> Yay, the autosync just finished.
[10:40] <imbrandon> from lenny or ....
[10:41] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Sid...
[10:42] <imbrandon> sid == lenny
[10:42] <Fujitsu> O_o
[10:42] <Fujitsu> Not last time I checked, and that wasn't very long ago.
[10:42] <geser> isn't lenny == testing != sid?
[10:43] <imbrandon> err yea
[10:43] <Fujitsu> geser: That's right.
[10:43] <imbrandon> damn repos
[10:43] <imbrandon> lol
[10:43] <imbrandon> i need sleep
[10:43] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: So you do... what are you doing up?
[10:43] <imbrandon> no idea its almost 5am
[10:43] <Fujitsu> That's what I thought...
[10:44] <imbrandon> time to start a debootstrap then off to bed i go
[10:44] <norsetto> thats racism, experimental is unnamed
[10:50] <pkern> Fuck ATI.
[10:52]  * pkern goes eating and then installing lenny. Ubuntu just doesn't work for me(tm). And if that doesn't help I'll revert to Gentoo.
[10:52] <pkern> "Frustessen" in German.
[10:53] <tepsipakki> pkern: so you need fglrx for some reason?
[10:53] <pkern> tepsipakki: No open source support for my card.
[10:53] <tepsipakki> vesa doesn't work?
[10:54] <pkern> After about 20 hard reboots in a few days I'm pissed off.
[10:54] <pkern> tepsipakki: Tell that xserver-xorg's postinst which corrupts my display reasonably well.
[10:54] <tepsipakki> bug 156325
[10:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156325 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "New fglrx 8.42.3 to Gutsy" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156325
[10:54] <pkern> "Ubuntu is now running in low-graphics mode!" "Continue" -> drops back to the console which is fscked because the letters are too large.
[10:55] <tepsipakki> pkern: it will be overhauled for hardy
[10:55] <pkern> The new fglrx is out? o_O
[10:55] <tepsipakki> don't you read slashdot?-)
[10:55] <pkern> And why is this Fix Committed.
[10:55] <pkern> tepsipakki: No.
[10:55] <Fujitsu> pkern: Yeah, a little while ago.
[10:55] <Fujitsu> Like, within the past 24 hours.
[10:55] <tepsipakki> pkern: it has been packaged for testing, that's why
[10:56] <tepsipakki> pkern: did you try xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd?
[10:57] <pkern> tepsipakki: I tried it from git a week ago, didn't work.
[10:57] <tepsipakki> right, it's still in flux
[10:58] <pkern> Now the reports about the new fglrx aren't too good either.
[10:58] <pkern> Well. afk \:
[11:31] <pkern> Yay for reports that suspend doesn't even work with the new driver.
[11:33] <norsetto> pkern: what ati model you have?
[11:33] <pkern> X1600
[11:33] <norsetto> pkern: ok, fglrx does indeed not suspend on an x800
[11:34] <pkern> Which is a regression over feisty, yes.
[11:34] <norsetto> pkern: as far as I know, it never did
[11:34] <StevenK> It seems my X40 with Intel doesn't suspend
[11:34] <pkern> norsetto: As far as I experienced it works very well with fglrx+kernel 2.6.22+SLUB
[11:34] <pkern> s/SLUB/SLAB/ *cough*
[11:36] <norsetto> pkern: in any case, I'm sticking with 1:6.6.3-2ubuntu6 which works wonders for me
[11:36] <pkern> bryce: How should I build the fglrx kernel module from your testing debs?
[11:38] <pkern> Hm the xorg driver alone already looks better.
[11:38] <pkern> Time to connect the beamer again.
[11:38] <pkern> Or projector or how it is called in English.
[11:42] <tepsipakki> pkern: bryce is asleep, but it seems that some files are missing from that directory
[11:42] <tepsipakki> like diff.gz and orig.tar.gz
[11:58] <pkern> tepsipakki: There's more missing.  Like e.g. linux-restricted-modules.
[11:58] <pkern> tepsipakki: module-assistant already broke on the previous versions of fglrx-kernel-source, and this one is no exception.
[11:59] <pkern> The new fglrx driver certainly looks much better, but I have a bad "Testing use only / Unsupported hardware" overlay on the display outputs.
[12:00] <pkern> Because I don't have the kernel module.
[12:02] <tepsipakki> pkern: ah, right :)
[12:03] <pkern> Well, at least xinerama works now, the diverse pdf readers just broke down on the 2nd display, but well...
[12:03] <pkern> Fullscreen works, so that's it.
[13:17] <Riddell> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Universe lacks any upload stage
[13:18] <dholbach> Riddell: imbrandon wanted to update the page for that anyway - imbrandon: can you add that?
[13:28] <fernando> moin all
[13:47] <proppy> hi
[13:47] <Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: i'm sure i didnt say *exactly* that :)
[14:02] <jdong> bryce: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5975
[14:02] <jdong> bryce: just a heads-up ( I posted on the bug report too) fglrx 8.42.3 is not a problem-free release
[14:02] <jdong> and IMO at this point is not good Gutsy material
[14:11] <huats> bluekuja: thanks for the dbmail merge....
[14:11] <huats> :-)
[14:12] <bluekuja> huats, np :)
[14:12] <huats> I'll try to workon it tonight
[14:12] <bluekuja> great
[14:37] <norsetto> proppy: want to try something different?
[14:37] <proppy> norsetto: why not
[14:38] <proppy> norsetto: I've to go take my japan classes in 1hour and 30 minutes
[14:38] <siretart> jdong: hi
[14:38] <siretart> jdong: what are you going to do wrt NotAutomatic in *-backports?
[14:38] <norsetto> proppy: don't worry, this is pretty long term; try to give a look at this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/129081
[14:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress]
[14:39] <norsetto> arigato
[14:40] <proppy> norsetto: what need to be done ?
[14:41] <norsetto> proppy: about everything
[14:41] <proppy> norsetto: someone seems already on it (for the packaging side)
[14:41] <proppy> norsetto: Justin losts interest in it ?
[14:41] <norsetto> proppy: I think so
[14:41] <proppy> norsetto: 1st thing to do ?
[14:42] <proppy> norsetto: ping him via a comment ?
[14:42] <norsetto> proppy: the first thing would be to get in touch with upstream and see what they have done, they have a pretty basic debian ready
[14:42] <proppy> norsetto: what communication channel do you suggest ?
[14:42] <proppy> norsetto: the bug report ?
[14:42] <proppy> norsetto: or private mail ?
[14:42] <norsetto> proppy: up to you
[14:42] <proppy> norsetto: irc ?
[14:42] <proppy> norsetto: ok
[14:43] <proppy> norsetto: bug report seems ok to me
[14:43] <norsetto> proppy: just assign it to yourself and go
[14:46] <proppy> norsetto: Is there only one assign slot ?
[14:46] <norsetto> proppy: yes
[14:47] <proppy> norsetto: I will just suscribe then, I didn't feel confident enough to kick someone
[14:47] <proppy> norsetto: I've post a comment thought
[14:47] <norsetto> proppy: oh gosh
[14:47] <proppy> norsetto: (L)
[14:48] <norsetto> proppy: there you are, you are the assignee
[14:48] <proppy> kss
[14:49] <fernando> hey ScottK
[14:49] <proppy> norsetto: where can I order a vicking cow ?
[14:50] <proppy> norsetto: Is it unique ?
[14:51] <fernando> ScottK, courier upstream release is 0.57.1, debian version is 0.57.0-1. Can I merge and upgrade in same time?
[14:51] <norsetto> proppy: as if I knew, its my beauparents
[14:51] <ScottK> fernando: Just merge the Debian one.
[14:51] <norsetto> proppy: beauxparents? anyhow, those ....
[14:52] <ScottK> fernando: Unless there is a REALLY critical bug fix in 57.1
[14:52] <fernando> ScottK, k
[14:53] <proppy> norsetto: beaux - parents
[14:55] <norsetto> proppy: as you can see from the singularity of the item, he is an architect ....
[14:55] <LucidFox> Please review! http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=403
[14:58] <gilligan_> hi
[15:13] <slytherin> Can anyone tell me where can I find Matthias Klose?
[15:13] <siretart> slytherin: in this channel. his nick is 'doko'
[15:14] <siretart> dholbach: have you seen 'ivoks' lately?
[15:14] <slytherin> doko_: ping
[15:15] <siretart> slytherin: better just ask your question. if you need an answer, try email
[15:15] <slytherin> siretart: I just wanted to know if I can assign a icedtea related bug to him.
[15:16] <siretart> since he did the relevant uploads, I'd think so
[15:17] <doko_> slytherin: no, please don't. I am subscribed to this package
[15:17] <slytherin> doko_: Ok. I will keep in mind.
[15:17] <slytherin> doko_: Do you recommend me to try your PPA for latest version?
[15:18] <norsetto> lucidfox: sometime it helps to test your stuff before submitting it
[15:19] <doko_> slytherin: what do you want to try?
[15:19] <slytherin> doko_: I don't mind using it for my regularly. I use eclipse daily and having a fast JVM always helps.
[15:20] <LucidFox> norsetto> sorry
[15:20] <norsetto> LucidFox: its ok
[15:25] <gilligan_> hm, i am interested in the upstart process of providing an early job-controlled shell.. it first closes any open file descriptor, then starts  a new session and open()'s /dev/console ?
[15:32] <dholbach> siretart: in some channels like #ubuntu-bugs but not very actively
[15:50] <proppy> hi
[15:56] <contrast83> Anyone know if Checkinstall can make a package for something that uses setup.py to install rather than make install?
[15:57] <persia> contrast83: You really don't want to do that, although it probably can.  The current version of checkinstall has several issues.
[15:57] <contrast83> persia: Oh alright. Thanks for the tip.
[15:57] <contrast83> Issues that weren't in Feisty's version?
[15:57] <persia> contrast83: If you have a working setup.py, you should be able to get a package working with a fairly simple debian/rules.  Take a look at a couple similar python packages for hints.
[15:58] <contrast83> Cool.
[15:58] <ScottK> contrast83: And if you're just using it locally python setup.py build, sudo python setup.py install will almost always give you a reasonable result.
[15:59] <persia> contrast83: No, the old issues.  There wasn't really any effort to improve it since then.  Example problems include not handling dependencies correctly, and not handling conflicts correctly.  This can make packages that work for the person creating them, but fail for everyone else, and it's really hard to debug.
[15:59] <persia> ScottK: Does that uninstall cleanly?
[15:59] <ScottK> Ahh.  Dunno.
[15:59] <contrast83> Umm... Isn't that the purpose of Checkinstall?
[15:59] <ScottK> I don't think I've ever actually tried to do that.
[16:01] <bryce> jdong: yup, I know, but thanks
[16:03] <persia> ScottK: I think packages are better :)
[16:03] <ScottK> persia: I agree.
[16:04] <ScottK> persia: I think disutils setup.py is better than checkinstall.
[16:04] <persia> contrast83: That is the intention of checkinstall, but the current implementation is lacking several important functions.  There are a couple people looking at alternate solutions to make it easier, but right now I'd recommend normal packaging (even though it's a little harder) rather than checkinstall.
[16:04] <persia> ScottK: I'll agree with that.
[16:05] <mruiz> hi all
[16:05] <mruiz> hi bluekuja ! thanks for the upload :-)
[16:06] <persia> contrast83: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy has a section entitled "CDBS + distutils" which includes a debian/rules file which should work for most proper python packages.  You'll still have to fiddle with control, and put something in copyright, but it may make the process fairly simple
[16:06] <bluekuja> mruiz, :)
[16:06] <contrast83> persia: Nice, thanks a lot. :-)
[16:06] <persia> contrast83: No problems.  Are you packaging something new for Ubuntu?
[16:06] <mruiz> bluekuja, I have a question about the debdiff: do I need to remove always stuff like /tmp/* ?
[16:07] <bluekuja> yep
[16:08] <contrast83> persia: Was just making to want a package of Nicotine's latest release. The one in the repos seems to be broken.
[16:08] <contrast83> Plus the latest release has a few features I want.
[16:08] <contrast83> heh... *wanting to make
[16:08] <persia> contrast83: Is the upstream version Ubuntu distributes broken, or just the distributed package?
[16:09] <contrast83> Haven't checked upstream yet... :-\
[16:10] <persia> contrast83: Also, you might be able to just grab the debian/ directory from the Ubuntu package, and use that for your new package.  Patches, etc. might affect this, but it's an easier starting place than nowhere.  If you have it working, and are willing to get it linda and lintian clean, I'd encourage you to send your package for consideration, and save someone else a bit of work for hardy.
[16:10]  * contrast83 is very new at MOTU/dev-related stuff, obviously.
[16:10] <persia> contrast83: This is the place for questions :)
[16:11] <contrast83> I just need to do some reading. I've got all the resources I need bookmarked, just been lazy.
[16:16] <mruiz> bluekuja, Can you give me an opinion of the bug 149093, please?
[16:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149093 in keepassx "typo in keepassx launcher shortcut text" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149093
[16:16] <bluekuja> mruiz, yeah, let me see
[16:17] <bluekuja> mruiz, seems ok
[16:17] <bluekuja> mruiz, I'm finishing a merge atm, after that I move to your bug
[16:17] <bluekuja> I assign it to me
[16:18] <mruiz> thanks... I want to learn about merges too ! :-)
[16:20] <bluekuja> mruiz, well, I can mentor you on a merge later too
[16:20] <bluekuja> mruiz, when I've finished this, I open a bug for you
[16:20] <mruiz> bluekuja, it would be great!
[16:20] <mruiz> thanks bluekuja
[16:20]  * mruiz waves
[16:21] <bluekuja> :)
[16:21] <bluekuja> mruiz, gonna ping you in some minutes
[16:21] <mruiz> bluekuja, sure!
[16:22] <zul> mruiz: why did you upload the xen-meta source?
[16:22] <nxvl> norsetto: i think the .po are ubuntu changes in some how, cause 1) my debdiff is betwen new debian and new ubuntu 2) on DaD there are conflicts with this 2files
[16:23] <norsetto> nxvl: you mean changes coming from the old ubuntu?
[16:23] <bluekuja> zul, he did a small typo fix
[16:23] <mruiz> zul, bluekuja did it. I fixed a typo
[16:23] <nxvl> norsetto: yep
[16:23] <norsetto> nxvl: strange, are they listed in  the changelog?
[16:23] <nxvl> norsetto: let me see
[16:24] <bluekuja> zul, it was a mentoring bug, and anyway you could check lp bugs as far as you are the maintainer
[16:24] <zul> bluekuja: i would appreciate a heads up next time
[16:24] <bluekuja> zul, huh?
[16:24] <bluekuja> zul, I got told to mentor him through it
[16:25] <bluekuja> zul, and that's what I've done
[16:25] <bluekuja> the bug was there since days
[16:25] <zul> bluekuja: whatever
[16:26] <bluekuja> zul, next time I gonna give up when I see your name as maintainer
[16:26] <bluekuja> norsetto, please dont assign me zul's stuff next time
[16:26] <bluekuja> if that's the reaction
[16:26] <geser> norsetto, nxvl: on some merges there are also changes to .po files but I didn't find out yet where they come from, I usually ignore them
[16:26] <hellboy195> bluekuja: also we can start tomorrow with merging ;)
[16:27] <norsetto> geser: yes, they certainly do not come for the ubuntu changes
[16:27] <bluekuja> hellboy195, yeah ;)
[16:29] <nxvl> norsetto: in the changelog it's only a german traduction change but it's from debian :S
[16:29] <nxvl> norsetto: but look -> http://dad.dunnewind.net/gramps/REPORT
[16:29] <nxvl> norsetto: how it is posible this files conflicts is there is no change at all?
[16:30] <norsetto> nxvl: well, there is certainly a problem with the tools, so you have still two options to pursue
[16:31] <norsetto> nxvl: try with a manual merge, its not vey difficult and you know all the changes very well by now
[16:31] <norsetto> nxvl: just remember that the changelog must reflect all the previous ubuntu changes
[16:31] <nxvl> norsetto: ok, i will give a try
[16:32] <norsetto> nxvl: just give it a try, if it doesn't work its ok
[16:38] <nxvl> norsetto: i've compare es.po from orig.tgz and 1ubuntu1 with "wc -l" and there is a diference
[16:39] <nxvl> norsetto: orig->16828 ubuntu->18772
[16:40] <nxvl> ScottK: ping
[16:40] <ScottK> pong
[16:40] <ion_> bang
[16:40] <ScottK> norsetto and bluekuja: zul does a lot of work on xen stuff and I think it's not at all unreasonable that if someone has worked a lot on a package you give them the courtesy of some discussion before you change stuff in it.
[16:41] <nxvl> ScottK: im working on LP bug #155487, which you offer to mentor, and with norsetto i found something wrong
[16:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 155487 in gramps "Please merge gramps (2.2.9-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155487
[16:41] <bluekuja> ScottK, I think fixing themself to themselves it's not something it would broke up everything
[16:42] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: eparse.  that's not valid english.
[16:42] <ScottK> nxvl: I'll have a look.
[16:42] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, sorry?
[16:42] <nxvl> ScottK: the debdiff im getting from new debian and new ubuntu has some .po files
[16:42] <ScottK> nxvl: Checking
[16:42] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: your statement was not valid english.  please rephrase, so that people have a chance of understanding what your'e trying to say.
[16:42] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, which one?
[16:43] <nxvl> ScottK: the problem is that norsetto remove all the debdiff
[16:43] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: the one right before i said eparse.
[16:43] <Hobbsee> ie, [01:41] <bluekuja> ScottK, I think fixing themself to themselves it's not something it would broke up everything
[16:43] <nxvl> ScottK: there where 5.3 Mb long
[16:43] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, I just said it was a fix to move themself to themselves
[16:43] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, what's wrong?
[16:43] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: errrr....
[16:43] <Hobbsee> okay, does anyone *else* understand that, and i'm just thick tonight?
[16:43] <Hobbsee> or does that make no logical sense, in any language?
[16:43] <ScottK> I got it.
[16:44] <norsetto> bluekuja: tell me in italian
[16:44] <ion_> My parser is not sufficient to get it either.
[16:44] <Hobbsee> ion_: ^5 hooray!
[16:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: mind explaining?
[16:44] <ScottK> Hobbsee: means themself/themselves was the change
[16:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: ohhh!  as in, in the control file.  right.
[16:44] <slangasek> so the reason it doesn't make sense is because there are quotes missing? :)
[16:44] <bluekuja>  Hobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/150876
[16:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150876 in xen-meta "English error in description" [Low,Fix released]
[16:44] <norsetto> bluekuja: no need, I understand it too now that scottk explained
[16:44] <Hobbsee> slangasek: NFI :)
[16:45] <bluekuja> norsetto, you assigned that to me...
[16:45] <bluekuja> norsetto, maybe you assign stuff without checking
[16:45] <bluekuja> what's there
[16:45] <bluekuja> cool
[16:45] <ion_> Quoting “themself” and “themselves” would have helped. :-)
[16:45] <norsetto> bluekuja: I would think before talking, can you show to me where in the history I assigned this to you?
[16:45] <ScottK> So back to the point, if someone has worked a lot on a package, it is, I think, as a matter of courtesy if nothing else, good to check with them.
[16:45] <zul> the point is that xen-meta is changing for hardy and that was going to be fixed anyways..
[16:45] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: btw, part of the job of *being* a mentor is checking for people that you should notify...and passing that onto the mentoree.
[16:46] <bluekuja> norsetto, let me grab the log
[16:46] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: i know you're new, so may not have realised that.  do you remember times when people would say "send this back to debian?"
[16:47] <ScottK> bluekuja and norsetto: Both of you are still pretty new.  Part of working as a team on maintenance is noticing work other people have done and being considerate of that work.
[16:47] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, I work in debian as well, so I guess it's something I do every day (check torrentflux package on debian/ubuntu now)
[16:47] <ScottK> I'd be upset too if you'd done the same on clamav or some other package I work a lot on.
[16:47] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: fair enough, but you cant assume that others do the same thing :)
[16:47] <norsetto> ScottK: I'm still waiting to see why I'm called in this mess
[16:47] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: if you hadnt heard me earlier, please also leave all merges assigned to me, starting with a K, for the same reason.
[16:48] <ScottK> norsetto: bluekuja pointed the finger at you.  I don't know.
[16:48] <Hobbsee> norsetto: i think bluekuja's trying to blame you for something he did, not you.  i'm explaining that this is, in fact, wrong
[16:48] <norsetto> scottK: yes, he is trying to discharge blame on somebody else, he is just a 17 yes old you should know
[16:48] <ScottK> norsetto: OK.  No trouble.
[16:49] <Hobbsee> norsetto: i dont think it's the receptionist's job to ensure that the MOTUs are notifying the right people, every single upload.  especially when the mentors outnumber the receptionists.
[16:49] <norsetto> Hobbsee: well, I'm being called in, so I'm waiting to know why
[16:49] <Hobbsee> norsetto: i thought we explained that :)
[16:50] <jdong> am I the only one who thinks this situation is being blown out of proportion? :-/
[16:50] <nxvl> norsetto, ScottK i found, the problem, as norsetto says, the .po where upstream changes. Fixing
[16:51] <ScottK> nxvl: Great.  Sorry I got distracted.
[16:52] <Hobbsee> jdong: perhaps not, but i'm suspecting it's happening for a fair few people, and will continue to happen unless people get warned *not* to do it.
[16:53] <jdong> Hobbsee: looks to me like a momentary lapse of judgement where bluekuja thought that it was a trivial enough change that he didn't need to notify the maintainer.... does that really deserve attacking his maturity?
[16:53] <jdong> Hobbsee: warning people not to do it would be a mail to the MOTU list... not a public lynching, no?
[16:53] <Hobbsee> jdong: i dont recall attacking his maturity?
[16:53] <Hobbsee> jdong: hah.  we just saw what the last public ML post did, too.
[16:53] <jdong> 11:48 < norsetto> scottK: yes, he is trying to discharge blame on somebody  else, he is just a 17 yes old you should know
[16:54] <jdong> completely unnecessary comment IMO :-/
[16:54] <Hobbsee> jdong: well, i'm not norsetto....so you'll really have to take that up with him...
[16:54] <bluekuja> norsetto, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1283/
[16:54] <jdong> Hobbsee: I'm just pointing out in general... not trying to single anyone out
[16:54] <jdong> that's not any of my business to do
[16:55] <bluekuja> norsetto, and I'm not 17 years old anyway
[16:55] <Hobbsee> and dholbach's away again.
[16:55]  * ScottK thinks sufficient points have been made and now it's about time for people to move on.
[16:56] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: btw, one of the important things about small change uploads is that people are attempting to use less bandwidth - so making more than a one line change each upload.  which is why they tend to be using stuff like bzr.
[16:56] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: zul likely had other changes to push as well.
[16:56] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, I know and I know. Next time PLEASE don't assign me a mentoree for a bug like this
[16:57]  * Hobbsee wonders when she started doing assigning.
[16:57] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, not you :)
[16:57] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: it's not just this - it's various other packages that people tend to touch a lot.  which makes it hard, i know.
[16:58] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: if your'e nto sure, give the "maintainer" a yell - can i handle this, or do you have other patches to push too?"
[16:58] <jdong> Hobbsee: is there a process for a MOTU to do mentoring, or is that just "MOTU's can mentor whenever they choose"?
[16:58] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: i think they wont eat you if you do that - whereas they may well do if you do uploads without putting it thru them :)
[16:58] <norsetto> bluekuja: nobody assigned you and you know well, you have agreed to help mruiz out, if you don't know how to do that, you should not offer to do it
[16:58] <Hobbsee> jdong: i dont follow the mentoring stuff, tbh.
[16:58] <Hobbsee> jdong: at least, not beyond the original page
[16:58] <bluekuja> norsetto, sorry? that mail talks clear
[16:59] <norsetto> bluekuja: don't blame other people for your faults
[16:59] <jdong> Hobbsee: ok, I'm just trying to understand the source of this problem, instead of blaming the individuals involved... :-/
[16:59] <bluekuja> norsetto, I don't want to discuss about this more, thanks
[17:00] <Hobbsee> norsetto: bluekuja calm down, calm down
[17:01] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, thanks for your advices, and I hope this wont happen again, it's simply crazy
[17:02] <Hobbsee> jdong: the source of the problem is that various MOTU's have particular pet packages that they touch, almost exclusively.  when others upload them, without telling, it can be quite frustrating - because they planned to do other uploads at the same time, because they were already working on doing the merge, so the codebase would change a lot, or whatever.  It's also a problem if the equivalent-NMU upload breaks it, and the maintainer gets
[17:02] <Hobbsee> stacks of bugs, goes "oh my, what's happened here?" and ifnds it's a result of the equivalent-NMU.  And the maintainer gets blamed for the breakage, often.
[17:02] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: no problem.  i hope so too.
[17:02] <siretart> yay. all my merges finished (besides xine-lib, where I'm waiting for the debian package to be approved) :)
[17:02] <Hobbsee> siretart: how much does xine-lib change?
[17:02] <ScottK> bluekuja: Do you understand what zul, Hobbsee, and myself are asking for here?  Understanding for doing better in the future is all I'm worried about.
[17:02]  * Hobbsee should do hers
[17:02] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i think he does.
[17:03] <siretart> Hobbsee: quite a bit. introduces new binary packages, plus requires small adjustments in frontend packages
[17:03] <jdong> Hobbsee: I understand. What kinds of things do you think can help solve this? More communication definitely -- anything that we can improve in the build infrasturcture? Like upload notifications to package subscribers, or an approver for uploads to a package?
[17:04] <Hobbsee> jdong: the maintainer is supposed to get emailed anyway - but i think this now goes to the motu list.
[17:04] <siretart> can someone give me a terse summary of the current topic? what's the problem?
[17:04] <bluekuja> ScottK, I understand. But as far as a package is maintained by the community, I guess just pinging the "one who cares about it" would be ok.
[17:04] <ScottK> jdong: I don't think it's a change the infrastructure/write more rules kind of situation.  I think it's a matter of protecting a culture that's respectful of the contributions of others.
[17:04] <jdong> siretart: bluekuja uploaded a change to xen without notifying zul
[17:04] <jdong> siretart: why it evolved to 30 minutes of arguing, that's beyond me
[17:04] <ScottK> bluekuja: Sounds good enough to me.
[17:05] <Hobbsee> jdong: documenting what's expected, i think.
[17:05] <bluekuja> ScottK, as you know we havent exclusive maintenance of a package like debian
[17:05] <ScottK> bluekuja: Agreed.
[17:05] <Hobbsee> siretart: ubuntu equivalent of a NMU, without notifying the maintainer.
[17:05] <bluekuja> ScottK, ok fine ;)
[17:05] <Hobbsee> siretart: for a maintainer who often touches the package in question
[17:05] <siretart> and the upload did cause trouble?
[17:05] <jdong> siretart: not that I see... it was a typo in a description deb/control
[17:06] <bluekuja> siretart, a small typo fix ("themself" to "themselves"
[17:06] <ScottK> bluekuja: But that doesn't mean that if someone clearly (from debian/changelog) has focused on a package, you shouldn't give them the courtesy of a discussion before uploading.
[17:06] <bluekuja> make this
[17:06] <zul> siretart: no its a communciation thing
[17:06] <siretart> if yes, why isn't xen managed in a VCS like bzr?
[17:06] <siretart> zul: wouldn't managing xen in bzr help then?
[17:06] <ScottK> Because a VCS doesn't help much for one person
[17:06] <bluekuja> ScottK, true
[17:06] <jdong> Hobbsee: I think making these expectations more clear is a good start...
[17:06] <siretart> ScottK: I beg to differ
[17:07] <bluekuja> leaving for a while
[17:07] <jdong> Hobbsee: if this is more than an isolated problem, I'd have to conclude there's something that needs improving with MOTU training
[17:07] <siretart> cya bluekuja!
[17:07] <ScottK> siretart: From my perspective unless MOTU as a whole agrees to bzr, then putting stuff in bzr is at best divisive.
[17:07] <Hobbsee> jdong: yeah, well.  there is that.  it seems that we don't really check for whether people are responsible, in terms of other people's uploads.
[17:07] <zul> siretart: its in the process off
[17:08] <jdong> Hobbsee: is it inherently obvious who manages what in universe, without having been here for a long time?
[17:08] <zul> siretart: besides a patch for me to look at would have been fine as well
[17:08] <siretart> ScottK: I don't think that putting every source package in bzr is necessary. I rather think that the 'problematic' ones should be version controlled
[17:08] <ScottK> siretart: Which then puts them out of reach for those of us that don't use bzr or creates a risk updates get lost.
[17:08] <Hobbsee> jdong: it is if you read the changelogs
[17:09] <Hobbsee> jdong: but not beyond that, no.
[17:09] <siretart> zul: you mean patches like these? http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/atomic/ubuntu/x/xen-3.1/xen-3.1_3.1.0-0ubuntu18.patch
[17:09] <Hobbsee> jdong: if you're modifying a package, then you should at least glance at the changelog anyway, no?  :)
[17:09] <jdong> Hobbsee: yes, you definitely should... but that's still not as explicit as I would think is optimal
[17:10] <zul> siretart: no i mean patches like pinging me on irc, saying I have a patch for xen-meta here it is can you look at it before I uploaded, besides xen-meta is going to be re-wrriten or dropped for hardy
[17:10] <jdong> Hobbsee: there should be some directory on launchpad, or field in control, of a person/people who definitely want notification
[17:10] <siretart> ScottK: not quite true. uncoordinates uploads can easily be incorporated and merged to the 'mainline' branch
[17:11] <zul> right im off to lunch
[17:11] <Hobbsee> jdong: no.  such a list would go very out of date.
[17:11] <ScottK> siretart: I think it's dangerous to not have a single "canonical" (pun intended) source for a package.
[17:11] <siretart> zul: in that case we should make it mandatory to contact the person in the maintainer field before touching any package not maintained by ubuntu-core-devel@l.u.c or ubuntu-devel@l.u.c in the Maintainer field of the package
[17:11] <nxvl> ScottK: i send a new debdiff, can u take a look please
[17:11] <ScottK> nxvl: Sure
[17:12] <zul> siretart: i agree
[17:12] <jdong> in the meantime, can someone sponsor http://jdong.mit.edu/~jdong/motu/azureus_2.5.0.4-1ubuntu2.dsc into Hardy?
[17:13] <ScottK> nxvl: Why did you remove the Homepage: field?
[17:14] <ScottK> nxvl: It also looks like a bunch of extra lines got added at the end of debian/rules.
[17:15] <ScottK> nxvl: I know you are just repeating what was there before, but I think "Re-add dh_iconcache and change it to dh_icons since dh_iconcache is deprecated" should just be "Add dh_icons to debian/rules"
[17:16] <ScottK> nxvl: Other than that, looks good.
[17:17] <jdong> nvm, I'll just use u-u-s....
[17:18] <AnAnt> Hello, I am making a package, how can I add the feature that it can ask users some questions to configure the package ?
[17:20] <ScottK> siretart: I don't think we need more rules.  I think we need more community focus on working together and not in isolation.
[17:20] <geser> AnAnt: debconf, but users should only be asked when there is no sane default
[17:21] <ScottK> nxvl: Did you get that?
[17:22] <nxvl> ScottK: yes
[17:22] <nxvl> ScottK: and fixing
[17:22] <ScottK> nxvl: OK.  Just checking.  Does it all make sense?
[17:22] <nxvl> ScottK: but i'm not sure about the Homepage thing
[17:22] <ScottK> Why not?
[17:23] <nxvl> cause i don't undesrtand that
[17:23] <nxvl> :D
[17:23] <ScottK> It's new.
[17:23] <nxvl> u mean in debian/control file?
[17:23] <ScottK> Yes
[17:23] <nxvl> ah ok
[17:23] <nxvl> i will take a look
[17:23] <ScottK> The dpkg in Debian supports it and so we will too for Hardy.
[17:23] <AnAnt> geser: how do I use debconf ? and can I configure it so that it would be run if user runs dpkg-reconfigure but not when package is being installed ?
[17:25] <geser> AnAnt: have you tried the debconf-doc package? I don't know debconf enough to tell you if that's possible
[17:26] <ScottK> norsetto: If you have a mentee that's ready for a harder merge, scapy might be a good one.
[17:26] <ScottK> norsetto: Particularly if they know a little Python.
[17:29] <norsetto> scottK: yes, I have a pythonist that could be interested, let me ask him
[17:32] <norsetto> scottK: rospo_zoppo is also a good contributor, if you want to talk to him about scape (he just joined)
[17:32] <fernando> ScottK, can you review http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/files/courier_0.57.0-1ubuntu1.debdiff
[17:33] <ScottK> norsetto and Rospo_Zoppo: Sure.
[17:33] <ScottK> fernando: Yep.
[17:33] <fernando> ScottK, sorry by delay, I'm very busy here
[17:33] <ScottK> fernando: No trouble.  It's not like we're near a release or anything.
[17:34] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: about scape ?
[17:34] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: scapy
[17:34] <nxvl> ScottK: fixed
[17:34] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: and what should I do ? :)
[17:35] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: It needs a merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net/scapy
[17:36] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: I've done my first merge today, I'm not very good with that :)
[17:36] <ScottK> norsetto: He may need more help than I've time to give.
[17:36] <norsetto> scottk: np
[17:37] <ScottK> nxvl: Did you edit your previous debdiff and attach it again or modify the package and redo the debdiff?
[17:37] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: what merge did you do today?
[17:37] <Rospo_Zoppo> if it's not
[17:37] <Rospo_Zoppo> mmh
[17:37] <Rospo_Zoppo> vertex
[17:37] <Rospo_Zoppo> just a second
[17:37] <norsetto> its in the u-u-s queue?
[17:38] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: sorry, its in the u-u-s queue?
[17:38] <geser> fernando: about the courier merge: does courier expect sendmail as /usr/bin/sendmail and not /usr/sbin/sendmail?
[17:38] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: yes
[17:38]  * norsetto checks
[17:39] <geser> fernando: and replace apache with apache2 in Depends for courier-webadmin
[17:39] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: did you use some tools? mom, dad, etc.
[17:39] <fernando> geser, ok
[17:39] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: I used mom
[17:40] <geser> fernando: the same for sqwebmail
[17:40] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: to see the changes
[17:40] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: I don't have much time now
[17:41] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: no problem, I'll leaee any comment to the bug
[17:41] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: actually, I have to go in a few minutes
[17:41] <fernando> geser, done
[17:41] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: thanks :)
[17:41] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: so, you won't look at scapy?
[17:41] <geser> fernando: why does your debdiff contain files like /tmp/xuJHkfUOW2/courier-0.57.0/debian/courier-authpostgresql/usr/share/doc/courier-authpostgresql/NEWS.Debian
[17:41] <geser> it looks like the clean target wasn't run
[17:42] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: if it's not an urgent task I can do it
[17:42] <fernando> geser, checking
[17:42] <nxvl> ScottK: :D i know it was wrong
[17:42] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: I don't think it is that urgent, but scottk may think differently
[17:42] <ScottK> geser: Thanks for checking the courier debdiff.
[17:42] <ScottK> norsetto and Rospo_Zoppo: It's not urgent.
[17:43] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto ScottK I must go now, I will take a look at it
[17:43] <ScottK> nxvl: Also it won't work.  That patch wouldn't apply because the line numbering wouldn't match up.
[17:43] <norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: take care
[17:43] <nxvl> ScottK: generating new one
[17:44] <Rospo_Zoppo> see you soon
[17:44]  * ScottK marks scapy belonging to Rospo_Zoppo on DaD
[17:44] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: Be sure to ping me when you have a debdiff.
[17:44] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: ok
[17:45] <geser> ScottK: I did only a quick check on it
[17:45] <ScottK> geser: Well that was good though.
[17:46] <ScottK> fernando: Why don't you let me know when you've worked through geser's comments.
[17:46] <nxvl> does debdiff has cache?
[17:46] <ScottK> No
[17:46] <nxvl> mmm
[17:46] <ScottK> But you need to rebuild the source package after you make the change if you didn't
[17:47] <tuxmaniac> folks. I just got my pbuilder setup
[17:47] <nxvl> i'm doing the changes but when i generate new debdiff it doesn't work, its still showing old one
[17:47] <tuxmaniac> now I need to build a upstream src and I do not want to install the builddeps in my working machine instead use the chroot environment
[17:48] <tuxmaniac> how do I get it done?
[17:48] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for Advocates for Easy Crypt on REVU - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=402 - Can anyone help me?
[17:49] <nxvl> ScottK: heh, it would be a good idea to build the source first, didn't it? :P
[17:50] <dholbach> Hobbsee: what about me? I was away for dinner
[17:52] <ScottK> dholbach: We had another round of 'fun' discussions and I think she was wishing you were around at the time.
[17:52] <dholbach> what was it all about?
[17:53] <StevenHarperUK> Are there any MOTU's here?
[17:53] <ScottK> dholbach: The short version is someone uploading a package that had a dedicated maintainer when they weren't that maintainer.
[17:53] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: There are several.  I'm not reviewing though.
[17:54] <ScottK> If you have a quick question, I'd be glad to try to answer it.
[17:54] <dholbach> ScottK: did they work the problem out together?
[17:54] <StevenHarperUK> What's the best way to get reviews : and is REVU the right place still?
[17:54] <ScottK> dholbach: This then evolved into the "if someone has done a lot of work on a package, it'd be nice to touch base with them before uploading" discussion.
[17:54] <tuxmaniac> if there is a change in the name of the upstream package, how do we handle it during packaging. Do we also change the package name?
[17:55] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: REVU is the right place.  Periodic requests here don't hurt.
[17:55] <dholbach> ScottK: definitively nice, we've had the problem before that people just did not know - I hope this did not turn into a huge problem right now?
[17:55] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Be patient though as it's early in the cycle and people aren't really focused there yet.
[17:55] <StevenHarperUK> Its just its been there since Sep 14th.....
[17:55] <ScottK> dholbach: I think it's worth reading the scrollback and reaching your own conclusion.
[17:55] <dholbach> ScottK: I'm happy to help working it out, who do I need to talk to?
[17:56] <StevenHarperUK> Its my own code and packagig
[17:56] <StevenHarperUK> A lot of work has gone into it and now the hardest part is getting someone to just look at it
[17:56] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Up until last week we were focused on getting Gutsy out the door.
[17:56] <StevenHarperUK> Yes I know
[17:56] <ScottK> You picked about the worst time in the release cycle to start looking
[17:57] <ScottK> It'll pick up now, probably in a couple of weeks, so I'd council patience.
[17:57] <StevenHarperUK> I have another Question do packages ever get added to current releases (i.e. Gutsy)?
[17:57] <Hobbsee> no
[17:57] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Only through backports
[17:57] <StevenHarperUK> I thought not
[17:57] <StevenHarperUK> Right that makes sense
[17:57] <ScottK> !backports | StevenHarperUK
[17:57] <ubotu> StevenHarperUK: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
[18:00] <StevenHarperUK> Right ok i'm off home now, thanks for the info, ill keep popping onto this channel and hounding the MOTU's (just like you advised :p) cya
[18:07] <ScottK> nxvl: The "only in patch2: ..." problem in debian/rules is back.  Other than that, it looks good.
[18:07] <bluekuja> back, anyway zul: sorry for what happened, I hope it's everything ok now
[18:10] <bluekuja> ScottK, Hobbsee: sorry for the confusion happened before ;)
[18:10] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: no problem
[18:11] <ScottK> bluekuja: No trouble.  The main thing is to learn and move on.
[18:11] <zul> bluekuja: no problem
[18:11] <bluekuja> zul, thanks, I hope you aren't disappointed for this thing, and I'll ask you next time for xen packages
[18:11] <tuxmaniac> Hi All, while doing a pdebuild I get this error for build dependency. I am not sure why it is unable to find the package as my apt-cache search shows it. is it that by default the chroot env does not include universe repos?
[18:12] <tuxmaniac> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1288/
[18:13] <nxvl> ScottK: yes, but in debian/rules it doesn't say anything about that, i don't kno why its there
[18:13] <ScottK> nxvl: Odd.  OK.
[18:13] <bluekuja> ScottK, agreed
[18:13] <ScottK> tuxmaniac: It does not.
[18:15] <ScottK> nxvl: Looks good.  I'll test it now.
[18:29] <ScottK> nxvl: Putting the bug number in the debian/changelog entry is a good practice.  I'm adding it for this time.
[18:29] <sistpoty> hi folks
[18:35] <AnAnt> Hello, is the revu ftp site the same ? revu.tauware.de ?
[18:35] <sistpoty> AnAnt: yes
[18:35] <AnAnt> ok
[18:36] <AnAnt> I see some mp3's on the incoming folders, so I was shocked
[18:36] <ScottK> New PPA Terms of Use have been published, FYI: https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse
[18:36] <ScottK> Much more reasonable IMO.
[18:38] <AnAnt> sistpoty: revu.tauware.de/incoming ?
[18:38] <AnAnt> sistpoty: why can't I see my upload there ?
[18:38] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: how long ago did you upload it, and what was it called?
[18:39] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: I am uploading it now ubuntume-wallpapers
[18:39] <sistpoty> AnAnt: it get's moved away every 10 minutes... (as in mv, so that you can do a longer upload because the file descriptors don't get invalidated by mv'ing=
[18:54] <sistpoty> ScottK: PPA TOS is much cooler now, thanks a lot for tackling this!
[18:55] <dholbach> hey sistpoty
[18:55] <sistpoty> hi dholbach
[18:55] <ScottK> sistpoty: No trouble.
[18:56] <ScottK> sistpoty: As I say about LP, it's proprietary, so I can't fix it, but I can complain a lot.
[18:56] <sistpoty> haha
[18:58] <deadwill> yo!
[19:06] <ScottK> nxvl: Looks good.  I'll upload it in a minute.  Thank you for your contribution.
[19:06] <nxvl> ScottK: thnak you for your help :D
[19:08] <ScottK> nxvl: Uploaded.  Congratulations.  You now "Touched it last".
[19:10] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: about scapy
[19:10] <nxvl> ScottK: :D
[19:10] <ScottK> Yes
[19:10] <nxvl> ScottK: thank u again
[19:10] <Rospo_Zoppo> the patch from upstream seems to cover the ubuntu one
[19:10] <ScottK> No proble.
[19:10] <ScottK> problem
[19:11] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: It may.  A bug was filed against it upstream.
[19:11] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: It may be that the package can be synced.
[19:11] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: that is what I thought
[19:13] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: This is why it's a good idea to go file bugs in Debian or upstream.  Eventually you get to do a sync and we don't have to maintain the package separately anymore.
[19:14] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: yes, I understand
[19:14] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: do you know where has that bug filed ?
[19:14] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: against debian ?
[19:14] <ScottK> No, it was filed against scapy
[19:15] <Rospo_Zoppo> ok
[19:15] <ScottK> In their bug tracker.
[19:15] <Rospo_Zoppo> perfect
[19:15] <Rospo_Zoppo> thanks
[19:15] <sistpoty> fernando: did you have time to do a merge yet? (as that's what I'm waiting for for your motu application)
[19:16] <fernando> sistpoty, I'm merging now. (fixing clean issue)
[19:16] <geser> sistpoty: afaik he's working on a courier merge
[19:16] <sistpoty> fernando: excellent, thanks!
[19:17] <sistpoty> geser: cool, that's then non-trivial as well I guess... perfect input to come to a decision *g*
[19:18] <ScottK> sistpoty: I didn't pick that one randomly.
[19:29] <sistpoty> ScottK: excellent, thanks!
[19:34] <nxvl> ScottK: can u make me a favor?
[19:34] <ScottK> Maybe?
[19:34] <nxvl> ScottK: take a look and check if it's right ->http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10126656/efax-gtk_3.0.15-1ubuntu1.debdiff
[19:34] <nxvl> sorry
[19:34] <nxvl> wrong link
[19:34] <nxvl> http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/?p=146
[19:35] <ScottK> nxvl: Looking.  You are in Peru?
[19:35] <nxvl> ScottK: yep
[19:35] <nxvl> ScottK: i live here
[19:36] <ScottK> Ah.  I visited there last year.
[19:36] <nxvl> ScottK: nice! where have you been? only in lima?
[19:36] <ScottK> It was a very interesting and enjoyable trip (it would've been more enjoyable had we not been watching over 18 14-16 year olds)
[19:37] <ScottK> No, we went several places (my spelling is going to be terrible)
[19:37] <nxvl> ScottK: heh, you come with your childrens?
[19:37] <nxvl> ScottK: don't wory, here no one can speel all the places, Quechua is very difficult
[19:38] <ScottK> We were in Lima, Macchu Piccu, tha Amazon basin, and Cusco
[19:38] <ScottK> Heh.
[19:38] <ScottK> It was a school sponsored trip that we helped watch over and we (my wife and I ) got to come too.
[19:38] <nxvl> ScottK: they are very nice places
[19:39] <ScottK> It was a bit touristy for my taste.  I'd have preferred to interact more with people.
[19:39] <nxvl> ScottK: ah ok! not a very nice work, but still fun
[19:39] <ScottK> Yes.
[19:40] <ScottK> That and the fact that my wife and I were the only ones in the group with experience travelling overseas in large groups, we felt like we were minding the teachers too sometime.
[19:40] <nxvl> ScottK: next time you came, write me so we can go dinner or something with the peruvian linux users :D we always do that when any FOSS developer come
[19:40] <ScottK> Cool.  I've no idea when or if that will be, but I will if it comes up.
[19:41] <ScottK> nxvl: It looks good to me.  It also explains all the empty lines at the end of your diff.
[19:41] <nxvl> ScottK: yes? why?
[19:42] <nxvl> ScottK: what have i do wrong?
[19:42] <ScottK> nxvl: Diff cannot remove a file entirely and so those bits were all that were left of the .po files after filterdiff got done.
[19:42] <nxvl> s/wrong/ not the better way/
[19:42] <ScottK> Not wrong, just another step.
[19:42] <ScottK> So if you filterdiff out an entire file, you'll need to remove that list bit from the diff.
[19:42] <nxvl> oh, ok, i undesrtand
[19:42] <nxvl> so, those line are needed to delete by hand
[19:43] <ScottK> Yes.
[19:43] <ScottK> Which is what I did before I applied it.
[19:43] <nxvl> ok i will keep that in mind
[19:43] <nxvl> thank you :D
[19:43] <ScottK> You should also mention adding the bug number in debian/changelog for a sponsored merge.
[19:43]  * sistpoty bypassed this for today's main sponsoring request *g*
[19:44] <nxvl> i was afraid to do it since last time i edit the debdiff it was not the best thing i did
[19:44] <jpatrick> should Homepage be in the package description or under Standards-Version?
[19:44] <ScottK> nxvl: I can understand.  In this case it's needed.  It's also OK if you don't change the number of lines in the diff (just edit within a line).
[19:45] <sistpoty> jpatrick: whatever you prefer... there's no clear decision in debian yet, FWIW
[19:45] <ScottK> jpatrick: Debian or Ubuntu?
[19:45] <ScottK> dpkg in Debian at least supports Homepage:  I assume ours will soonis.
[19:45] <ScottK> h
[19:45] <sistpoty> (and imo nothing really parses homepage in ubuntu, so it imho doesn't matter for us=
[19:46] <pkern> This is a clear decision in Debian.
[19:46] <pkern> *There
[19:46] <pkern> *cough*
[19:46] <jpatrick> it's a merge I'm doing
[19:46] <ScottK> jpatrick: Leave Homepage: in.  It does no harm and we'll support it eventually.
[19:46] <sistpoty> pkern: there is already? (didn't make it to the games team yet *
[19:46] <ScottK> That's my advice.
[19:46] <sistpoty> +g*
[19:46] <jpatrick> ScottK: ok
[19:47] <nxvl> ScottK: so, instead of deleting a line i can change it with an empty line and that would work
[19:47] <ScottK> sistpoty: Debian Python and Debian Perl have done it across the board in their repos.
[19:47] <pkern> http://wiki.debian.org/DeveloperNews
[19:47] <ScottK> nxvl: If needed, but if you're doing that you're better of to redo it.
[19:48] <ScottK> nxvl: I was thinking something like you notice you got the bug number in debian/changelog wrong, it's OK to change the number to the right one.
[19:48] <nxvl> ScottK: i understand that, and i know that the way, but i ask only to understand how it works
[19:48] <ScottK> OK
[19:48] <nxvl> thanks a lot
[19:48] <nxvl> ScottK: if you have more marges let me know, i will be glad to do them :D
[19:49] <ScottK> nxvl: Thanks.
[19:49] <pkern> Merge me into Ubuntu.
[19:49] <sistpoty> pkern: thanks!
[19:49] <sistpoty> (for the wiki link)
[19:49] <nxvl> pkern: heh
[19:49] <blueyed> Is there no page about PPAs on wiki.ubuntu.com yet?
[19:50] <nxvl> blueyed: there is one in help.launchad
[19:50] <nxvl> blueyed: https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart/
[19:50] <ScottK> blueyed: It's a launchpad thing, not an Ubuntu thing
[19:51] <pkern> ScottK: Ubuntu is Launchpad.  Launchpad is Ubuntu.  We are Borg, you will be assimilated.
[19:51] <blueyed> Ah, I see. But in the end there are a lot of Launchpad things documented on the wiki, aren't they?
[19:51] <pkern> Resistance is futile. FWIW.
[19:52] <ScottK> pkern: Sort of.
[19:52] <ScottK> Doesn't mean the attempt isn't worthwhile.
[19:52] <pkern> ScottK: As we see in Star Trek, resistance was never futile, yes.
[19:52] <nxvl> pkern: WTF!? ubuntu is not lp, lp is not ubuntu
[19:52] <pkern> And I don't think it's fruitless, but we oh so dependant. :-P
[19:52] <pkern> *we're
[19:52] <sistpoty> still a tiny village of non-LP tools exists in the ubuntu landscape, which the Romans couldn't capture up to day *g*
[19:53] <ScottK> nxvl: He's being sarcastic.
[19:53] <pkern> nxvl: Blue or red pill?
[19:53] <ScottK> Heh
[19:53] <nxvl> ScottK: yes i know
[19:53] <ScottK> K
[19:53] <nxvl> pkern: wich one let me live in peace?
[19:53] <ScottK> When two people are conversing neither in their native tongue I don't make assumptions.
[19:53] <pkern> nxvl: The blue one, it /ignores me. :-P
[19:53] <sistpoty> *g*
[19:53] <pkern> ScottK: *cough*
[19:54] <ScottK> ?
[19:54] <nxvl> heh
[19:54] <blueyed> Is it a good idea to upload OOo to my PPA, with an upstream patch for testing? (bug 131526) It seems to take hours^Wdays to build.
[19:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131526 in openoffice.org "[gutsy] OpenOffice crashes/hangs on errors in current gtk theme" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131526
[19:54] <pkern> Now I *could* converse in German, but you don't want that. :-P
[19:54]  * pkern is afraid of the assumptions.
[19:54] <pkern> blueyed: Just do it and deal with the fallout gracefully. :-P
[19:55] <pkern> And by the way: it only took about 4h on my lappy on Gentoo.
[19:56] <sistpoty> you're in the lucky position to have a fast lappy then :P
[19:56] <pkern> sistpoty: Aye.
[19:56] <pkern> sistpoty: Sucky ATI, though.
[19:56] <nxvl> what i'm have not clear is the MoM and DaD thing
[19:56] <sistpoty> hehe
[19:56] <pkern> And stupid "mail-in" warranty of Lenovo, so I'll need to buy something to ship it in.
[19:56] <ScottK> blueyed: I'd suggest upload it 3 times with different revision numbers to make sure it gets there ;-)
[19:56] <nxvl> s/i'm/i/
[19:57] <pkern> ScottK: If you do it shortly afterwards it's no problem I'd guess.
[19:57] <blueyed> ScottK: yay for blocking the PPA build system :p
[19:57] <pkern> ScottK: But launchpad buildds are somewhat slow to get the fact that the package is already superseeded.
[19:57] <ScottK> nxvl: Both do the same thing.  MoM is the official, but proprietary merges tool.  DaD is a community developed FOSS tool for the same thing.
[19:58] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: the patch that seems to fix that is http://trac.secdev.org/scapy/changeset/a5653a4a7fbc#file0
[19:58] <ScottK> nxvl: They have their differences.  I status my merges on DaD since it takes comments.
[19:58] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: and i found that in the new upstream patch
[19:58] <Rospo_Zoppo> it seems to be a sync
[19:58] <ScottK> nxvl: I will generally use DaD's merge script, but then try MoM's if I don't get a clean result.
[19:58] <ScottK> nxvl: You can use whicher you prefer.
[19:58] <fernando> ScottK, geser, sistpoty: http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/files/courier_0.57.0-1ubuntu1.debdiff the sendmail is moved by rules to sbin
[19:59] <fernando> fixed clean and apache2 instead apache
[20:00] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: That's the one.  Did you test build it?
[20:00] <Rospo_Zoppo> no, I'm gonna do it
[20:00] <Rospo_Zoppo> right now :)
[20:00] <ScottK> fernando: It'll be a bit before I can look in detail.
[20:00] <sistpoty> oh, about MoM and DaD, maybe we should prod on the lists about comments again? anyone who'd like to volunteer?
[20:00] <Lutin> sistpoty: not sure what you mean
[20:01] <blueyed> openoffice.org is patchless? (according to what-patch)
[20:02] <sistpoty> Lutin: the last I remember is the discussion about unifying MoM and DaD on a motu meeting very long ago. where there efforts to do so? if not, why did it fail? what tool is MOTUs preferred one?
[20:02] <nxvl> ScottK: i was thinking on something like that, thnx
[20:02] <sistpoty> last thing even
[20:04] <Lutin> sistpoty: well keybuk sort of said there would be no problem to make MoM use DaD UI, if everyone was ok, but no work have been done on this. Adri2000 is starting working on it afaict
[20:04] <Adri2000> sistpoty: last time we talked about that, the final word (during a meeting) was that we could try to ask sabdfl about making MoM free, and otherwise use DaD UI on MoM's backend. for the first part we got no answer from sabdfl since June (I again tried today to ask him), and for the second part we haven't really worked on it yet, but  we are going to start doing so with arthur soon
[20:04] <sistpoty> Lutin: ah... that was pretty much what I remember as well, so I just wanted to send a ping actually ;)
[20:05] <Lutin> sistpoty: heh :)
[20:06] <sistpoty> well, I can try to bring 1) forward to sabdfl at UDS, not sure if I'll succeed though ;)
[20:06] <pkern> Hah, no answer is in this context better than a no. :-P
[20:06] <pkern> Otherwise I would raise a wtf.
[20:06] <nxvl> ok, now i need to go to the university, see you later
[20:07] <sistpoty> cya nxvl
[20:07] <Lutin> Fujitsu: heh, jdong saved you, he did azureus :)
[20:07] <Adri2000> sistpoty: yeah, if you could try that... because seems that my question doesn't get through the irc query correctly :p
[20:07] <geser> fernando: where does the changes to e.g. courier-0.57.0/courier/ldapaliasdrc.h or courier-0.57.0/courier/module.local/preline.c come from? I can't find a entry for them in the changelog
[20:07] <sistpoty> Adri2000: sure
[20:08] <jdong> Lutin: lol now I'm forever blamed for everything azureus
[20:08] <jdong> Lutin: I'm in their IRC channel and listening to all their devs yell at me right now
[20:08] <jdong> for the past 1.5 years
[20:08] <Lutin> jdong: lol
[20:09] <zul> jdong: been there done that ;)
[20:09] <bluekuja> let's thank jdong for his work...azureus simply rocks now
[20:10] <bluekuja> never seen it so fast
[20:16] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: probably I will have the build log tomorrow
[20:16] <Rospo_Zoppo> because I'm going out in some minutes
[20:17] <fernando> geser, very strange. the debian orig is diferent of upstream source
[20:17] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: No trouble.  It's not a rush.
[20:17] <blueyed> Does somebody know where I have to drop patches for openoffice.org? There's ooo-build/patches, but I'm not  sure how to do it.
[20:17] <ScottK> calc can probably tell you ^^^
[20:19] <doko> jdong: did you drop the gnome patches for azureus?
[20:20] <jdong> doko: I went with Debian dropping all our existing patches...
[20:20] <doko> jdong: please reapply
[20:20] <jdong> doko: can you briefly describe what the patch does?
[20:21] <fernando> geser, sorry, my mistake
[20:21] <doko> jdong: sure, look at the (old) changelog
[20:22] <jdong> doko: is that "07_azureus-themed.dpatch"?
[20:22] <jdong> (grepping gnome in changelog shows nothing)
[20:23] <jdong> or native-tabs?
[20:24] <pwnguin> actually, ive heard a couple people blame the gnome patches for ubuntu's package crashing
[20:24] <jdong> pwnguin: I recall similar things, which is why I'm asking before applying...
[20:25] <pwnguin> at the very least, i'd like to have a package to test without them to compare to
[20:25] <jdong> pwnguin: I'd like to know exactly what the patch does and what benefits it has...
[20:25] <pwnguin> just read it ;)
[20:25] <jdong> pwnguin: I can't even figure out witch patch it is
[20:25] <pwnguin> true
[20:26] <doko> jdong: 02, 07, 26
[20:26] <pwnguin> damn
[20:26] <pwnguin> 26 patches
[20:26] <doko> jdong: why did you reenable the the update manager?
[20:27] <doko> jdong: why removing support for gcj?
[20:27] <jdong> doko: compiling azureus with gcj causes packages that segfault for every other JVM
[20:28] <pwnguin> doko: because azureus crashes every week, and gcj sucks ass at hashing?
[20:28] <doko> pwnguin: is that the reason for dropping these patches?
[20:28] <jdong> doko: update manager is selectively disabled for the core, SWT by Debian; users may install plugins in ~/.azureus that beneft from the updater
[20:29] <doko> jdong: why did you drop the standard plugins?
[20:29] <jdong> doko: because the Debian packager didn't include them?
[20:30] <man-di> jdong: the debian packager is a jerk with no glue
[20:30] <imbrandon> umm dosent sound much like a merge
[20:30] <man-di> clue
[20:30] <man-di> whatever
[20:30] <doko> jdong: so dropping extra patches from ubuntu is standard motu style? did dholbach tell you that?
[20:30] <pochu> If a user has a crash in an app with this error: "item_state_set_all_read (node=0x85d6960) at item_state.c:190   190item_state.c: No such file or directory." what does that mean? How can that file not exist, if the function is in it?
[20:30] <pwnguin> heh
[20:31] <jdong> doko: no, nobody told me that
[20:31] <pwnguin> doko: the current az package is so bad that i have to revert to upstream. you sound offended about the change in packaging
[20:32] <jdong> imbrandon: it's not really a merge to begin with... our patches caused Azureus to be unstable and nobody understanded how to fix it, while Debian has perfectly functional packaging that worked
[20:32] <imbrandon> jdong, yes but every ubuntu change that is dropped needs a reason iirc, thats the point of listing each one in the changelog when its done
[20:33] <ScottK> imbrandon and doko: Generally true, but in this case the package was so broken and the packaging sufficiently evil that no one was willing to touch it through the entire Gutsy cycle.
[20:33] <pwnguin> damn, scott took my point =(
[20:34] <jdong> imbrandon: I dropped them because they were not necessary to properly functioning azureus
[20:34] <doko> jdong, pwnguin, ScottK: please repackage using http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/devel/azureus/
[20:34] <pwnguin> 26+ patches is a lot to review
[20:34] <ScottK> jdong appears to have a much cleaner solution which if not perfect, has the significant benifit of actually working.
[20:34] <doko> ScottK: there's no reason for dropping patches
[20:34] <pwnguin> doko: only if you grab their gcj patches into ubuntu main
[20:34] <xhaker> anybody here knows how to get .svn dirs into EXTRA_DIST
[20:34] <ScottK> doko: It's not dropping it's starting over from Debian.
[20:34] <jdong> doko: that looks exactly like the previous packaging, and does not work in Ubuntu at all
[20:35] <jdong> doko: GCJ throws exception on logo screen or adding torrents, Sun/icedtea segfault immediately
[20:35] <ScottK> doko: Why would we base ourselves on Fedora and not Debian?
[20:35] <pkern> Debian r b t3h 3v1l.
[20:35] <pwnguin> ScottK: because Fedora loves gcj and makes it work on gcj.
[20:35] <pkern> They want to be mentioned on ubuntu.com!
[20:36] <doko> ScottK: why dropping patches at all?
[20:36] <pwnguin> ...
[20:36] <ScottK> At the start of a development cycle to get a working package it seems not unreasonable to me.
[20:37] <jdong> likewise
[20:37] <pochu> pkern: and they already are ;)
[20:37] <pkern> pochu: I know.
[20:37] <doko> ScottK: and later "forget" about it. sorry, I think thats the wrong attitude
[20:37] <ScottK> I guess we could just leave it broken for another cycle.  Would that be better?
[20:38] <imbrandon> ScottK, i dont agree, changing the package to be in line with debian sure, but then re-adapt the existing patches
[20:38] <imbrandon> unless there is a solid reason for each drop
[20:38] <Lutin> xhaker: why would you want .svn in your make dist target ?
[20:38] <ScottK> I guess I see a lot of picking on someone who was willing to dig in and do the work.  Ideal or not, a working package beats a non-working package.
[20:38] <doko> jdong: it did work for me with gcj, now it doesn't work anymore, as you say icedtea segfaults. now you *require* non-free software for a working version.
[20:38] <jdong> doko: icedtea is not non-free software
[20:39] <pwnguin> whats the build dep?
[20:39] <jdong> at least it's in Universe
[20:39] <jdong> pwnguin: icedtea-java7-jdk
[20:39] <jdong> universe
[20:39] <pwnguin> fair enough
[20:39] <doko> jdong: "Sun/icedtea segfault immediately"
[20:39] <xhaker> Lutin, i want the svn dirs to be ignored
[20:39] <jdong> doko: with 2.5.0.0+patches; 2.5.0.4 the version I uploaded works PERFECTLY with icedtea and sun java
[20:40] <pwnguin> bug #105816
[20:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 105816 in azureus "Azureus crashes after start" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/105816
[20:40] <doko> jdong: but apparently you did upload *without* patches and plugins
[20:40] <Lutin> xhaker: they will be unless told otherwise
[20:40] <jdong> doko: upstream also firmly maintains that GCJ has broken/incomplete nio which will not allow proper network transfer with GCJ
[20:41] <pwnguin> doko: heres the serious question: how did ubuntu come to carry 28 patches without upstream taking them?
[20:41] <superm1> are we actually allowed to upload things to hardy at this point even though the toolchain isn't ready?
[20:42] <bluekuja> superm1, you can start uploading, everyone already started merging
[20:42] <doko> pwnguin: serious answer: did you *ever* saw a dev ML or get feedback from upstream?
[20:42] <superm1> bluekuja, cool :)
[20:42] <bluekuja> superm1, :)
[20:42] <bluekuja> superm1, good development circle :)
[20:43] <pwnguin> doko: well, i'll pull the same trick that was pulled on me then. "there are ways of solving an unreponsive upstream"
[20:43] <doko> pwnguin: could you point me to a bug and patch tracker?
[20:44] <jdong> the plugins are just an IRC client and torent tracker
[20:44] <jdong> the tracker, I do admit, would be nice
[20:44] <pwnguin> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=575154&group_id=84122&func=browse
[20:44] <pwnguin> that?
[20:44] <pwnguin> its a standard sourceforge project
[20:44] <jdong> but our source tarball is the same one that upstream provides
[20:45] <doko> jdong: including the windows stuff?
[20:46] <jdong> doko: it's zapped by debian/rules
[20:46] <jdong> rather, build is skipped
[20:47] <superm1> bluekuja, this being the case, would you mind a quick revu on a few things i've got on launchpad?  They're simple artwork packages that should be pretty straightforward
[20:47] <bluekuja> superm1, do you have a link?
[20:47] <superm1> sure one sec
[20:47] <bluekuja> ty
[20:48] <superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=382 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=390 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=391
[20:48] <superm1> (they're all based on common packaging)
[20:48] <bluekuja> superm1, why there is no .diff? native?
[20:48] <superm1> the first one is native
[20:48] <superm1> the other two are not
[20:49] <bluekuja> ok, fine
[20:51] <bluekuja> superm1, I gonna check first one, then I gonna move to watch a film, I'm pretty tired :)
[20:52] <superm1> bluekuja, okay sounds good, ty :)
[20:55] <bluekuja> superm1, it builds/installs fine, destination dirs are ok
[20:55] <bluekuja> is copyright stuff ok as well?
[20:55] <superm1> yeah we chose a CC license that allowed redistribution
[20:56] <bluekuja> superm1, lintian/linda are both happy
[20:57] <bluekuja> superm1, let me test the package to see if it works
[20:57] <bluekuja> superm1, you should change release to hardy
[20:57] <superm1> bluekuja, i'll warn you it's gonna pull in a lot of stuff if you dont have myth already setup :)
[20:57] <bluekuja> ;)
[20:58] <superm1> bluekuja, yeah this was uploaded some time ago
[20:58] <superm1> i'll switch it to hardy when i put it to the archive
[20:58] <bluekuja> k, and anyway yes it's pulling some packages
[20:58] <bluekuja> atm
[20:58] <bluekuja> ^^
[20:58] <bluekuja> superm1, how can I check it?
[20:59] <superm1> bluekuja, well you'd have to setup quite a bit of items to see the theme in action to be honest....
[20:59] <superm1> bluekuja, we are distributing that deb though in the final mythbuntu 7.10 disks, so i can say for sure its working.
[21:00] <superm1> bluekuja, it was just past freeze when it was done so we couldnt have it in the archive
[21:00] <bluekuja> superm1, ok, important thing is to have it tested, but if you said you and some users tested it is ok
[21:00] <superm1> some 5804 users have tested it :)
[21:01] <norsetto> scottk: I can even leave the toilet seat up, but if I'm late for dinner she REALLY gets upset
[21:01] <bluekuja> superm1, lol
[21:01] <ScottK> Understand.
[21:01] <bluekuja> superm1, acking that package
[21:02] <superm1> bluekuja, okay thanks, i'll s/gutsy/hardy/ and upload
[21:02] <superm1> bluekuja, can you archive the revu on it?
[21:02] <fernando> geser, http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/files/courier_0.57.0-1ubuntu1.debdiff fixed
[21:02] <bluekuja> superm1, yep
[21:03] <geser> fernando: looks much better now
[21:03] <bluekuja> superm1, acked and archived
[21:04] <superm1> bluekuja, thanks again.  enjoy your film :)
[21:04] <blueyed> Riddell: I would appreciate it, if you would leave more trace/links in bug reports.. it's often difficult to see which version has fixed something, for example with bug 98729 :)
[21:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 98729 in qt-x11-free "ugly qt applications: qtrc missing in libqt3-mt" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98729
[21:04] <fernando> geser, yeah
[21:04] <bluekuja> superm1, thanks :)
[21:05] <geser> fernando: debian/control: it's XSBC-Original-Maintainer and not only Original-Maintainer
[21:08] <fernando> geser, http://www.nerdgroup.org/fernando/files/courier_0.57.0-1ubuntu1.debdiff fixed
[21:09] <Riddell> blueyed: that looks like a duplicate of 145709
[21:09] <Riddell> bug 145709
[21:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145709 in qt-x11-free "7.10: Qt3 /etc/qt3/qtrc owner root result in ugly appearance" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145709
[21:12] <fernando> geser, ScottK, College time. Sorry about my mistakes on courier.
[21:13] <zul> right im heading home
[21:14] <ajmitch> bye zul
[21:17]  * pkern whistles
[21:24] <blueyed> Riddell: but it's quite old already. Thanks for updating. In general, please add more links, e.g. in changelogs. Sometimes I see your changelogs and then remember some bug - which is not referenced.
[21:25]  * ScottK bangs head against wall over dpkg conffile handling.
[21:26]  * norsetto pats scottk on the shoulders and hand him a beer
[21:27]  * ScottK considers Scotch a generally superior solution, but will make do if needed.
[21:28] <sistpoty> hah, so you're up to the hard stuff *g*
[21:28] <ScottK> This is not a recent development.
[21:29]  * norsetto enjoys his tumblefull of loch dhu
[21:31] <ajmitch> don't tempt me please
[21:31]  * norsetto is gratefull that scottk is around to remember him that life is full of good things ;-)
[21:35] <calc> blueyed: wrt OOo in ooo-build/patches/src680 but usually takes some work since it applies so many you have to make sure the patch actually applies
[21:35] <calc> blueyed: and you have to add the patch to the apply file in the right spot
[21:35] <zerwas_> Will Pidgin 2.2.2 get into Ubuntu 7.10?
[21:35] <norsetto> scottK: do you know anyone that can help on a qt4 problem?
[21:35] <ScottK> zerwas_: No.  7.10 is done and released.
[21:36] <ScottK> norsetto: Maybe nixternal
[21:36] <norsetto> no animals were harmed in the making of this distribution (beside nixternal but that was an accident)
[21:37]  * sistpoty always thought nixternal was a plant actually *g*
[21:38] <blueyed> calc: what's "src680" (the meaning)? Wow. There ae 7280 patches (in this dir)!
[21:42] <StevenHarperUK_> Hi I am looking for MOTU's to advocate my package "Easy Crypt": http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=402 - I am the developer and Packager, can anyone help me?
[21:44] <calc> blueyed: code branch version name i think
[21:45] <blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: you should leave out the debian version "-0" maybe?
[21:45] <ajmitch> sistpoty: do you have the original mail to the MC list for that latest thread? it's not showing for me
[21:46] <blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: have you taken a look at bzr and bzr-builddeb?
[21:46] <StevenHarperUK_> No I'm very new to Packaging and am very glad to get this far, I'm mainly a coder (it what I do for a living)
[21:47] <sistpoty> ajmitch: no... same here, but it's on the list and I recieved it at work (and deleted it since I only reply to the most interesting non-work related mails at work *g*)
[21:47] <ajmitch> it's on the list?
[21:47]  * ajmitch wonders why he doesn't have it
[21:47] <blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: the package description sounds very insteresting. I should try the program. (no truecrypt experiments done yet)
[21:48] <StevenHarperUK_> Please do; it's very handy
[21:48] <blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: will do so. Have you seen http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/easycrypt-0710241350/lintian ?
[21:48] <StevenHarperUK_> I am currently expanding to allow users to select other Encyption Algorithms and also the hidden crypts, there's also more polish to put on it :p
[21:49] <sistpoty> ajmitch: I guess you're *not* using kmail, otherwise I'd have blamed the MUA ;)
[21:49] <StevenHarperUK_> No I haven't seen that; is that a standard scan of my ackage?
[21:49] <ajmitch> sistpoty: no, mutt :)
[21:50] <sistpoty> ajmitch: then you're doomed... I know one of the mutt contributors from university (though his stuff is much more clean than kmail in general *g*)
[21:50] <StevenHarperUK_> What Target Distribution should I use?
[21:50] <ajmitch> haha
[21:51] <blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: yes, linked on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=402 - you should see this also when building a package, e.g. with pbuilder or debuild/dpkg-buildpackage.
[21:51] <nixternal> imbrandon: your little kernel package destroyed my sound!
[21:52] <blueyed> E.g. you may want to use "hardy" in the changelog/release name (instead of feisty) - use "dch" for editing the changelog.
[21:52] <StevenHarperUK_> Right I see, I have to lose the Dash then, that a definite and the Target Distribution and Section..., then just kill them .svn files
[21:53] <StevenHarperUK_> blueyed, do ALL the warnings and errors have to be gone before advocation?
[21:54] <blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: I don't know. This is my first REVU review.. :)
[21:54] <StevenHarperUK_> ah right, any other motu's about to answer that Q?
[21:54] <Knuckles> hello all.
[21:55] <blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: e.g. "debuild -S" warns about the debian version but missing orig.tar.gz
[21:56] <StevenHarperUK_> What does that mean?
[21:57] <blueyed> When you run "debuild -S", it warns about it. You should not use "-0", if it's a native package (where you are upstream, too).
[21:58] <blueyed> In your case I'd take a look at bzr-builddeb. It has a mode for "I'm upstream and package maintainer".
[22:00] <ScottK> blueyed: I'd suggest you not add complexity to a newcomer's envirnoment.
[22:00] <ScottK> I'd suggest sticking with standard tools.
[22:01] <blueyed> StevenHarperUK_: ScottK is probably right. I don't want to disturb you and it's good to learn the basics for sure..
[22:01] <Knuckles> I want to participate to the developement of Ubuntu
[22:01] <Knuckles> and i have some questions
[22:01] <Knuckles> can someone reply to a few questions?
[22:01] <ScottK> norsetto: ^^^
[22:01] <ScottK> Ask away and we'll see.
[22:02] <sistpoty> sure, just go ahead
[22:02] <norsetto> !ask | knuckles
[22:02] <ubotu> knuckles: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[22:02] <Knuckles> ;) ok so here we go
[22:02] <Knuckles> I just want to know wich kind of languages are necessary to know
[22:02]  * norsetto wears his antiquestion proof vest
[22:03] <norsetto> knuckles: english helps ....
[22:03] <lifeless> Knuckles: those that you choose to use/those of the projects you work on.
[22:03] <Knuckles> ok
[22:03] <sistpoty> Knuckles: a little bit of makefile (for debian/rules)... apart from that english to communicate with upstream or debian ;)
[22:03] <Knuckles> ok
[22:03] <norsetto> sistpoty: lol
[22:03] <sistpoty> Knuckles: knowing the language a package is written in (e.g. c or c++) certainly helps too
[22:04] <Knuckles> So I know how to "makefile"
[22:04] <Knuckles> and C/C++ ok
[22:04] <Knuckles> good
[22:04] <Knuckles> know python too, I think a lot of Ubuntu packages are built with it
[22:04] <Knuckles> (sorry if my english isn't perfect, I'm french)
[22:04] <norsetto> personne est parfaite
[22:05] <Knuckles> :)
[22:05] <Knuckles> Ok so
[22:05] <sistpoty> Knuckles: python helps, but imo the minority of the packages involve a knowledge of it (most are c, some are c++ and the rest divides into perl/python and a few more uncommon languages like haskell)
[22:05] <sistpoty> (i.e. also the *maintainer scripts*)
[22:05] <Knuckles> ok
[22:06] <Knuckles> I don't know Perl but I can learn it
[22:06] <Knuckles> no problem
[22:06] <StevenHarperUK_> Yes mines done with Python, I can't say the packaging has been easy or straight forward
[22:06] <Knuckles> and do I have to pass an exam?
[22:06] <sistpoty> Knuckles: I don't know perl either ;)
[22:06] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Does your package have a distutils setup.py?
[22:07] <StevenHarperUK_> No I tried going down that route and wasted hours of my life
[22:07] <StevenHarperUK_> the documentation is comical
[22:07] <sistpoty> Knuckles: sure, you'll have to come before motu-council and apply to become a maintainer... some may see this as interesting conversation, some as an exam. I'll see it as asking whatever I'm up to (because I'm currently in the council'
[22:07] <Knuckles> Ok
[22:07] <Knuckles> The fact is that I use Ubuntu each days
[22:07] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Agreed (about documentation), but if you could get that right, packaging is dead simple.
[22:07] <Knuckles> for personal works and school works
[22:08] <StevenHarperUK_> I guess you need someone who just knows
[22:08] <Knuckles> and I want to perform my knowledge by working for ubuntu
[22:08] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: The general approach I use is to find a package similar to mine and copy.
[22:08] <sistpoty> Knuckles: sorry, wanted to add a wink smiley, it's not a real exam and you can just check the list archives ;)
[22:08] <Knuckles> ok
[22:08] <StevenHarperUK_> this is what I do - sudo dpkg-buildpackage -I.svn -tc -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E
[22:08] <norsetto> knuckles: do you have any knowledge of packaging?
[22:08] <StevenHarperUK_> then - debuild -S -sa -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E
[22:09] <Knuckles> I study in Computer Sciences (to become ingeener)
[22:09] <Knuckles> so
[22:09] <Knuckles> I learned how to build a makefile
[22:09] <StevenHarperUK_> I really don't want to spend ages on Packaging, I'm a coder really
[22:09] <sistpoty> StevenHarperUK_: usually I don't build anything as root (as it's not required)...
[22:09] <Knuckles> but not especially packaging for ubuntu
[22:09] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Why not debuild -S -sa -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E -I.svn -tc?  I think that will work in one step.
[22:09] <StevenHarperUK_> ta
[22:09] <norsetto> Knuckles: ok, I can suggest you two links
[22:10] <Knuckles> ok
[22:10] <sistpoty> StevenHarperUK_: I do a dpkg-buildpackage -r fakeroot -S -sa -us -uc (-S: build a source package, -sa: include the full source, -us -uc don't sign anything, don't know which is for what right now though)
[22:10] <norsetto> knuckles: one is a general link for development, it tells you what is development for us: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
[22:10] <StevenHarperUK_> Ta
[22:10] <sistpoty> StevenHarperUK_: if that succeeds, and I have what I want, I run debsign -k<mykeyid> <changesfile> manually
[22:11] <norsetto> Knuckles: I think its a very good page, and you should find it useful
[22:11] <StevenHarperUK_> the  -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E signs it
[22:11] <pkern> sistpoty: -us unsigned source; -uc unsigned changes
[22:11] <StevenHarperUK_> for me anyway :P
[22:11] <sistpoty> pkern: thanks, may I man pkern in the future? *g*
[22:11] <norsetto> Knuckles: I also suggest you have a look at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
[22:12] <pkern> sistpoty: Probably not.
[22:12] <rexbron> would I be able to get the revu keychain resynced?
[22:12] <sistpoty> d'oh ;)
[22:12] <pkern> May I try to resync it?
[22:12] <Knuckles> I read the second one hour ago
[22:12] <sistpoty> sure (to both of you=
[22:12] <martoss> hi there,
[22:12] <sistpoty> -=+)
[22:12] <sistpoty> hi martoss
[22:12] <norsetto> Knuckles: here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation you will find quite a lot of docs to read to learn about packaging
[22:13] <sistpoty> (just in case anyone wonders, I've asked everyone from #classroom interested in packaging to join here)
[22:13] <Knuckles> As it's written, I think I will start by working as Prospective Developers
[22:13] <pkern> Hm.
[22:13] <pkern> sistpoty: You are root on sparky, right?
[22:13] <sistpoty> pkern: yes
[22:13] <martoss> how can i "unpack" a package. i have modified an existing package which i got via apt-get source, now i deleted the folder and have "only" the .orig.tar.gz .dsc and so on.
[22:13] <pkern> sistpoty: Could you please look why I can't login?
[22:13] <norsetto> Knuckles: yes, I would suggest you start by reading some docs first, then come back and try to work on some packaging bugs
[22:14] <mathiaz> martoss: dpkg-source -x foo*.dsc
[22:14] <sistpoty> pkern: sure, give me a sec please
[22:14] <Knuckles> Ok
[22:14] <norsetto> Knuckles: look for the "packaging"tag, we are always here avaiable to help with any question you may have
[22:14] <pkern> sistpoty: The authorized_keys should be the same as https://launchpad.net/~pkern/+sshkeys
[22:14] <pkern> sistpoty: If only asterix is in there it would explain it, but that really shouldn't be the case \:
[22:15] <StevenHarperUK_> In my control file - Section: contrib/utils - is that for the Package or Source part or BOTH?
[22:15] <Knuckles> Ok, I will read all this doc'
[22:15] <Knuckles> and then come back
[22:15] <Knuckles> to ask for some work :D
[22:16] <martoss> mathiaz, ahh, great!
[22:16] <norsetto> Knuckles: you can also look for mentored bugs, it means somebody is offering his help to you to fix it
[22:16] <martoss> is there a trick to build the package with -j 2 on muliprocessor machines?
[22:16] <martoss> without breaking everything...
[22:16] <martoss> ...for others.
[22:16] <Knuckles> norsetto, that's great, it can be useful for my first packaging bugs
[22:17] <sistpoty> pkern: it seems to be the same (unless klipper plays some evil things with me)
[22:17] <norsetto> Knuckles: and if you subscribe to the motu-mentors mailing list, we sometime advertise mentored bugs there too
[22:17] <Knuckles> ok
[22:18] <lamego> martoss, alias d2build='debuild -uc -us -eMAKEFLAGS=-j2'
[22:18] <Knuckles> so to sum up al of that
[22:18] <Knuckles> I read the doc
[22:18] <sistpoty> pkern: pm?
[22:18] <Knuckles> I come back here to ask some work
[22:18] <pkern> sistpoty: Why should I deny that :-P
[22:18] <Knuckles> If I have some problems, I look for mentored bugs
[22:19] <norsetto> Knuckles: right now we are just starting for hardy, it means lot of syncs/merges (you  will see in the docs what they are)
[22:20] <norsetto> Knuckles: you can start with those, its good to get to know your tools and also about some of the procedures
[22:20] <martoss> ok, works.
[22:20] <Knuckles> Ok great
[22:20] <norsetto> Knuckles: but come back here once you read a bit, and we will talk more about the details
[22:21] <Knuckles> Ok no problem
[22:21] <Knuckles> I'm going to read docs
[22:21] <Knuckles> Thank you for your help
[22:21] <Knuckles> When are you on this channel?
[22:21] <Knuckles> (if i need to talk to you)
[22:22] <norsetto> Knuckles: just pop here and ask, we are all here to help as well, if not me somebody else will
[22:23] <Knuckles> ok perfect
[22:23] <Knuckles> See you next time!
[22:23] <norsetto> Knuckles: a+
[22:23] <Knuckles> A+
[22:24] <ajmitch> norsetto is *always* here
[22:24] <norsetto> ajmitch: don't remember me .....
[22:24] <ajmitch> how could I ever forget you?
[22:24] <norsetto> ajmitch: if you get sentimental I punch you on the nose
[22:25] <ajmitch> haha
[22:25] <norsetto> ajmitch: and then we go together to the pub ;-)
[22:25] <ajmitch> yay
[22:26] <norsetto> which reminds me I have a glass somewhere around here ...
[22:26] <norsetto> cheers :-)
[22:26]  * ajmitch is at work, sadly
[22:26] <ajmitch> and we don't usually drink at work in the morning :)
[22:26]  * norsetto noted the use of the word usually
[22:30] <sistpoty> norsetto: cheers (/me fetches another glass then *g*)
[22:30] <norsetto> sistpoty: cheers :-)
[22:30] <pkern> rexbron: Resyncing.
[22:32] <rexbron> pkern: thanks
[22:33] <StevenHarperUK_> Hi im getting this Error after submitting to the PPA - any ideas? Rejected:Component "contrib" is not allowed in feisty
[22:33] <pkern> StevenHarperUK_: s/contrib/universe/
[22:33] <StevenHarperUK_> My debain source has Section: contrib/utils
[22:33] <pkern> StevenHarperUK_: That's wrong for Ubuntu.
[22:33] <StevenHarperUK_> what should it be for both Source and Package pls
[22:33] <tonyyarusso> StevenHarperUK_: universe
[22:34] <tonyyarusso> so, universe/utils
[22:34] <StevenHarperUK_> in source or package or both?
[22:34] <tonyyarusso> I'm not sure I understand what you mean there
[22:35] <StevenHarperUK_> There are 2 sections to the control file
[22:35] <StevenHarperUK_> top part for Source
[22:35] <StevenHarperUK_> Lower for Package
[22:35] <StevenHarperUK_> both have a    Section :
[22:35] <tonyyarusso> whereever you had contrib before, yes
[22:35] <StevenHarperUK_> have I got that wrong?
[22:36] <StevenHarperUK_> My lower one has always just been : Section : utils
[22:36] <StevenHarperUK_> My upper on is now Section: universe/utils
[22:36] <StevenHarperUK_> does that sound right?
[22:37] <tonyyarusso> yeah
[22:38] <rexbron> Would anyone be interested in reviewing a package (genpo)? upid 406
[22:38] <proppy> hi
[22:52] <pkern> Revu sync done.
[22:52] <pkern> Does anyone know how to delete all files in a directory belonging to a certain changes file?
[22:54] <sistpoty> pkern: they (should) start with the same prefix, so zsh could help?
[22:54] <pkern> Hm, that has a point, of course.
[22:55] <pkern> sistpoty: Hm, no, that doesn't work.
[22:56] <pkern> sistpoty: Different binary packages have different prefixes?
[22:57] <ajmitch> pkern: I did have a script written to do that
[22:57] <blueyed> calc: for ooo-build: can I drop the patch like it's on http://www.openoffice.org/nonav/issues/showattachment.cgi/49023/openoffice.org.ooo82608.vcl.gtkbadfree.patch ?
[22:57] <ajmitch> except I didn't add it to bzr, so it got stomped when tiber was taken down
[22:58] <ajmitch> it ran every 30 min to clean up binary uploads
[22:58] <blueyed> calc: (and add it in apply to "[ TemporaryHacks ]")?
[23:00] <pkern> ajmitch: Well probably I could use python-debian et al. for that, but that looks heavyweight.
[23:00] <ajmitch> pkern: I just used grep :)
[23:00] <pkern> (Apart of the fact that I just made up the inotify runner in Ruby.)
[23:00] <pkern> ajmitch: grep '^ ' oder what?
[23:01] <pkern> ajmitch: That would be somewhat silly. \:
[23:02] <pkern> Currently I use dput to get all files together, and I guess I could just clean up the unsigned queue with rm *.
[23:02] <mathiaz> nxvl: I've seen that you've assigned bug 106975 to yourself.
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 106975 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "mysqldump lacks bash completion script" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/106975
[23:03] <ajmitch> egrep  '^ [0-9A-Fa-f]{32}' foo_i386.changes
[23:03] <mathiaz> nxvl: do you understand what needs to be done ?
[23:03] <ajmitch> for some reason :xdigit: didn't do it
[23:03]  * ajmitch probably needed to double the [
[23:04] <ajmitch> right,  egrep  '^ [[:xdigit:]]{32}' pymad_0.5.4-1ubuntu3_i386.changes
[23:04] <ajmitch> that gives the files in the 5th column
[23:05] <blueyed> debuild -S in openoffice.org complains: "/bin/bash: /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj/bin/gcj: No such file or directory" (but finishes)
[23:06] <pkern>  x.each_line do |line| next unless line.match(/^ [[:xdigit:]]{32}/); puts line.split(' ')[4]; end
[23:06] <pkern> Oh well.
[23:06] <pkern> Thanks ajmitch ;)
[23:07] <pkern> Hm.
[23:07] <pkern> Luckily the changes are trusted.
[23:07] <pkern> Otherwise that would be very damaging.
[23:07] <pwnguin> man, i hate debian MLs
[23:07] <pwnguin> too much work
[23:07] <pkern> o_O
[23:08] <pwnguin> no top posting, references, paying attention to reply-to, etc
[23:08] <ajmitch> pkern: plus you make sure you only delete stuff in the current directory :)
[23:08] <pkern> ajmitch: How?
[23:09] <ajmitch> by stripping any path info before deleting
[23:09] <pkern> ajmitch: Now is there any easy way to do this?
[23:09] <pkern> ajmitch: Stripping any dots and slashes at the begin of the string?
[23:10] <ajmitch> you're doing it in ruby, so I presume it has some way to safely do that
[23:10] <ajmitch> I did it in shell, so basename came in handy
[23:10] <ion_> >> File.basename "/foo/../bar"
[23:10] <ion_> => "bar"
[23:10] <pkern> ajmitch: So File.basename is the key, thanks (:
[23:10] <bddebian> Heya gang
[23:11] <ajmitch> right, same thing, useful
[23:11]  * ajmitch grovels
[23:11] <pkern> Sadly enough on another application I also need to crush path traversal somehow but it's not that easy. |:
[23:11] <ion_> Howdy, bddebian
[23:11] <bddebian> Heya ion_
[23:12] <pkern> Now this is American style.  "How are you doing?" "Fine, and you?" "Fine.".  Don't try that with Germans, though.
[23:12] <ajmitch> pkern: why not?
[23:13] <ion_> That works with Finns. Finns suck at smalltalk, but they suck at ‘talk’ even more, so they’ll just say ”not much” or something like that.
[23:13] <pkern> ajmitch: We're usually honest on this.  Which is... sort of unusual in this context I suppose.
[23:13] <Amaranth> pkern: "How are you doing?" "Well, my cat just died and I've been a little constipated lately..."
[23:14] <ajmitch> so you ask someone how they are, and they'll tell you their life story?
[23:14] <pwnguin> i wish the debian mailing lists would munge the reply-to
[23:14] <pkern> ajmitch: I think so, yes.
[23:14] <ajmitch> Amaranth: the usual response being "glad to hear it"
[23:14] <sistpoty> pkern: works pretty well for some germans though :P
[23:14] <pkern> sistpoty: Hah.
[23:14] <sistpoty> of course the conversation ends then *g*
[23:15] <ajmitch> sistpoty: so how are you? :)
[23:15] <sistpoty> ajmitch: fine, and how about you? :P
[23:15] <ajmitch> oh, I could be better. quite hungry, since it's near lunchtime, and I didn't have dinner last night ;)
[23:16] <sistpoty> oh... (*silence*)
[23:16] <pkern> So was this a nice or a bad try? :-P
[23:16]  * norsetto -> bed
[23:17] <pkern> Hm, I need something to backport to Etch to try my buildd...
[23:18] <bddebian> Ah, pkern's back in action :-)
[23:19] <pkern> Nah.
[23:19] <ajmitch> bddebian: you'd better try & catch up
[23:19] <pkern> University just began again. |:
[23:19] <ajmitch> we expect approx 1000 uploads for hardy
[23:19] <bddebian> ajmitch: I couldn't even begin to try :-)
[23:19] <ajmitch> yes you could
[23:19] <pkern> Hah, bddebian bashing in #ubuntu-motu? ;)
[23:19] <sistpoty> pkern: damn, then I should be in bed now, otherwise I will have to look for a parking lot tomorrow again *g*
[23:19] <bddebian> I'm trying to get some stuff in through debian
[23:20] <StevenHarperUK_> In my changes file : what should my target distribution be - its curr : easycrypt (0.2.1.2) feisty; urgency=low , its moaning about the feisty bit
[23:20] <pkern> sistpoty: Good night.  I promise that I'll go to bed soon too and there won't be something interesting from my side. :-P
[23:20] <ajmitch> pkern: this isn't bashing at all
[23:20] <pkern> Yay, even binNMU'ing works.
[23:20] <StevenHarperUK_> Should it be : universe?
[23:20] <sistpoty> pkern: thanks, and gn8 as well
[23:20] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[23:20] <StevenHarperUK_> nn
[23:21] <pochu> See you folks.
[23:21] <ajmitch> StevenHarperUK_: it should be hardy, but lintian will complain, since it is outdated
[23:21] <ajmitch> if on REVU
[23:21] <StevenHarperUK_> so its ok as Hardy even for REVU?
[23:22] <ajmitch> yes
[23:23] <StevenHarperUK_> lintian is complaining that my source and package are in different sections : should they be the same ?
[23:23] <pkern> Maybe this should be stripped from lintian on REVU somehow ;)
[23:24] <imbrandon> mmmm REVU hacking
[23:25] <ajmitch> pkern: it should only take 2 minutes
[23:25] <imbrandon> pkern, maybe a special lintian for revu could be good, i wouldent get rid of the warning thought
[23:25] <imbrandon> though*
[23:25] <imbrandon> just clarify it
[23:26] <bddebian> Hmm, is it a REVU sprint?
[23:26] <pkern> Good night, folks. (:
[23:26] <ajmitch> night pkern
[23:26] <bddebian> Gah
[23:26] <pkern> Night ajmitch :-P
[23:27] <StevenHarperUK_> lintain told me to put my source section as :  Section: universe/utils , now its complaining that my Package section isnt the same - its (Section: utils ) do I have to make them both : Section: universe/utils
[23:27] <imbrandon> its always a good idea
[23:27] <StevenHarperUK_> ta
[23:28] <pwnguin> ive seen packages omit a section
[23:28] <bddebian> I didn't think we were to use universe/foo for sections?
[23:28] <pwnguin> i guess it inherits the source section
[23:28] <imbrandon> bddebian, for PPA's you MUST so i dont see why not
[23:29] <pwnguin> bddebian: where exactly would you note universe then?
[23:29] <bddebian> Why would you?
[23:29] <StevenHarperUK_> Next it says
[23:29] <StevenHarperUK_> the most recent entry in the changelog is byte-for-byte identical to the maintainer or one of the uploaders.
[23:29] <StevenHarperUK_> The maintainer and the name in the changelog are identical : does anyone have a suggestion on whats wrong?
[23:29] <imbrandon> pwnguin, why ?
[23:29] <ajmitch> pwnguin: for ubuntu uploads, there's no need
[23:29] <pwnguin> well, ive only worked with ppas
[23:30] <pwnguin> i assumed they were nessecary
[23:30] <imbrandon> pwnguin, nah the archives use overides files
[23:30] <bddebian> So are going to start seeing the whole world's PPAs sent to the mailing list now?
[23:30] <imbrandon> tbh i feel that PPA's should just use "all"
[23:31] <pwnguin> just about everything in my ppa is already in debian
[23:31] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[23:31] <StevenHarperUK_> Can anyone suggest what I have to do to fix the byte-for-byte problem?
[23:31] <ajmitch> StevenHarperUK_: you don't need the gpg comment (Developer) in the changelog & maintainer section
[23:31] <imbrandon> i onlt have 2 packages in my PPA, and i guess one is obsoleted and the other i need to upload to hardy
[23:32] <bddebian> Heya TheMuso
[23:32] <StevenHarperUK_> So remove it : ta
[23:33] <pwnguin> i donno if this is the right place to ask, but what's acceptable when it comes to fullscreen modes?
[23:33] <pwnguin> i have a program that as written has a -fullscreen option, which isnt default
[23:34] <bddebian> Make if a runtime option? :-)
[23:35] <tonyyarusso> Anyone here run into the vga= bug in Gutsy?  (and preferably know a fix?)
[23:35] <pwnguin> i was thinking of making the launcher run with -fullscreen
[23:37] <imbrandon> wow first upload for hardy and its even a gnome app, whats the world comming to
[23:37] <bddebian> Hah
[23:40] <imbrandon> this makes me mad, all my other household family members that use gmail get the IMAP option but me for my main account
[23:40] <imbrandon> grrr
[23:40] <pwnguin> mwuahhaa
[23:41]  * TheMuso wonders why only particular people get Gmail imap.
[23:41] <imbrandon> its brand new, they always roll out new featurs to select users
[23:41] <imbrandon> for the fist bit
[23:41] <TheMuso> Right.
[23:41] <pwnguin> TheMuso: i bet it has to do with their massive distributed system
[23:42]  * TheMuso should check whether he has the option.
[23:42] <pwnguin> upgrade boxes one at a time
[23:42] <jdong> imbrandon: aww you ppor thing :)
[23:42] <pwnguin> or in their cases, a few at a time
[23:42] <imbrandon> i just wanna use mutt for my gmail :(
[23:42]  * jdong getmail mirrors his gmail account anyway
[23:42] <imbrandon> jdong, i would be its almost 3 gb, i dont wanna
[23:42] <pwnguin> 12:40 < aeruder> gmail + imap + mutt works pretty well
[23:42] <jdong> imbrandon: yeah, I feel you there
[23:43] <jdong> pwnguin: hopefully their IMAP server doesn't have 3+-second latencies :)
[23:43] <jdong> like their POP server at times
[23:43] <jdong> that would SUCK with mutt
[23:43] <imbrandon> pwnguin, yea it works great, i set up a new gmail account and it had it ( new accounts get it automatic ) and tried it out
[23:43] <pwnguin> ive never used mutt
[23:43] <imbrandon> but i want my main account
[23:43] <jdong> pwnguin: looks like irssi but with e-mail scrolling by.
[23:43] <jdong> lol
[23:43] <pwnguin> except at the command line in a script for undergrads to submit assignments by email
[23:44] <imbrandon> lol
[23:44] <imbrandon> i like it because i can use it from ssh
[23:44] <pwnguin> imbrandon: maybe if you didnt have so much mail, you'd get it into imap faster :P
[23:44] <imbrandon> pwnguin, maybe ;)
[23:44] <jdong> imbrandon: I like it because it bypasses the gmail UI that fires AJAX timers too much for my laptop battery life
[23:44] <pwnguin> heh
[23:44] <pwnguin> lucky
[23:45] <pwnguin> gmail doesnt even register on powertop for me
[23:45] <pwnguin> but the threading and quote detection is excellent
[23:45] <imbrandon> yea i love gmail, but i love imap tooo
[23:45] <imbrandon> its like a nightmare watching everyone else get it
[23:46] <jdong> pwnguin: isn't it a nightmare to GPG though?
[23:46] <imbrandon> jdong, there are extentions for FF that make it easy
[23:46] <jdong> pwnguin: I'd rather not be granting Firefox read access to ~/.gnupg.... or execute access for... err... anything
[23:46] <jdong> imbrandon: did gmail finally stop reformattting spacing in e-mails when hitting send?
[23:46] <pwnguin> jdong: yes, its not pretty
[23:46] <pwnguin> gpg
[23:46] <jdong> imbrandon: initial firegpg had that problem where gmail changes spaces on blank lines...
[23:46] <pwnguin> donno about spacing
[23:47] <jdong> and that would fail GPG signature, of course
[23:47] <pwnguin> jdong: tell you what, get thunderbird or something to be as smart as gmail, and i'll consider this whole gpg stuff ;)
[23:48] <jdong> pwnguin: mutt threading is pretty great
[23:48] <imbrandon> yea
[23:48] <jdong> pwnguin: and *giggle* thunderbird. haha.
[23:48] <imbrandon> its the same as gmail
[23:48] <jdong> oh oh oh! evolution! :D
[23:48] <pwnguin> im a walking contradiction
[23:48] <pwnguin> im typing this on screen+irssi
[23:48] <imbrandon> hey the "finger of god" says evolution is the best ;)
[23:48] <StevenHarperUK_> hey : my lintian is down to just this : http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/easycrypt-0710250210/lintian
[23:48] <jdong> pwnguin: haha
[23:48] <StevenHarperUK_> is that all good now?
[23:49] <pwnguin> StevenHarperUK_: im told that lintian is the last thing to know about new distributions
[23:49] <imbrandon> pwnguin, ^A c then `mutt` :)
[23:49] <pwnguin> i have no idea why this would be
[23:49] <pwnguin> imbrandon: wrong server, but yes
[23:50] <imbrandon> getting screen + irrsi to run on bootup is harder than it looks
[23:50] <imbrandon> ( not login, boot )
[23:51] <pwnguin> werent you bitching at me for leaving a laptop unattended in my bedroom?
[23:51] <imbrandon> this is irc we're talking about
[23:51] <imbrandon> not gpg ;)
[23:52] <pwnguin> well, getting screen at boot requires passphraseless ssh keys
[23:52]  * TheMuso doesn't have gmail imap.
[23:53] <imbrandon> ummm no, it just requires "screen -drA" in rc.local
[23:53]  * pwnguin has imap!
[23:53] <imbrandon> ;)
[23:53]  * pwnguin 
[23:53] <imbrandon> pwnguin, u sux
[23:53] <pwnguin> i wonder if irssi puts the space between /me and the rest of a sentence or if the viewing client does it
[23:54] <StevenHarperUK_> So do you think that's ok to be Reviewed by the MOTU's Now?
[23:55] <imbrandon> StevenHarperUK_, is that not what you have been doing ?
[23:55] <StevenHarperUK_> Well its been reviewed : I need it Advocating now :p
[23:59] <StevenHarperUK_> So any MOTU's fancy Reviewing and Advocating my Package on REVU? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=410
[23:59] <pwnguin> advocating?