[01:45] <DaSkreech> !broadcom
[01:45] <ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[02:14]  * DaSkreech tries to crash this computer
[02:27] <jjesse> Evening
[02:30] <begert_> hi
[02:35] <DaSkreech> hello
[03:04] <jjesse> Evening Jucato
[03:04] <jjesse> Well morning for u
[03:05] <jjesse> Half asleep
[03:05]  * Jucato overslept :(
[03:06] <Jucato> hi jjesse!
[03:06] <Jucato> good evening
[03:06]  * DaSkreech waves
[03:07] <Jucato> hi DaSkreech
[03:07] <jjesse> Wow i' lovin my nokia
[03:07] <DaSkreech> 810?
[03:07] <Jucato> n810-??!?!
[03:07] <jjesse> 800 :(
[03:08] <Jucato> aw..
[03:09] <Jucato> but still nice
[03:10] <Jucato> hmm...my brain is still booting to make sense of anything...
[03:12]  * DaSkreech hands Jucato coffee
[03:12] <Jucato> .. thanks... I guess...
[03:13]  * DaSkreech hands Jucato  genii's coffee
[03:14] <Jucato> better :)
[03:14]  * genii hands DaSkreech the coffeemaker
[03:15]  * DaSkreech grumblesa bout being Jamacan so people always want Blue mountain coffee
[03:15] <Jucato> genii: but aren't you the coffee maker?
[03:15] <genii> DaSkreech: :) Awesome coffee tho
[03:15] <genii> Jucato: No no... I am the coffee consumer
[03:15] <Jucato> ah
[03:16] <genii> Hey has anyone tried to get cipux installed on ubuntu? It keeps complaining to me
[03:18] <genii> I guess not then :)
[03:19] <DaSkreech> What cipux?
[03:19]  * genii waits for the coffee to perk
[03:19] <genii> DaSkreech: Basically a web gui admin tool. since webmin will no longer be provided.
[03:19] <DaSkreech> Yay!
[03:20] <ScottK> genii: If you're looking for one of those, ebox is the one that Ubuntu is planning on providing for Hardy.
[03:21] <genii> ScottK: Ah, OK. Debian and Debian-edu are packaging cipux right now.
[03:21] <genii> But it's still not there yet
[03:21] <ScottK> OK.  soren is working on ebox.  He can generally be found in #ubuntu-server
[03:21] <genii> ScottK: Thanks
[03:35] <jjesse> dang looiks like my schedule for friday just changed :(
[03:35] <jjesse> boo
[03:35] <Jucato> :(
[03:37] <DaSkreech> #ubuntu-home-server ?
[03:41] <genii> DaSkreech: Me?
[03:42] <DaSkreech> Dunno
[03:42] <DaSkreech>  Just occured to me that existed at some point
[03:42] <DaSkreech>  I think the project is dead
[03:42] <DaSkreech>  no matter
[03:43] <genii> Ah OK
[03:43] <DaSkreech>  I thought it ill planned and ill fated in any case
[03:55] <nixternal> oi oi
[03:56] <jjesse> you are jewish?
[03:56] <nixternal> I guess
[03:57] <nixternal> jjesse: go ahead and do the bzr stuff...you know it better than I do anyways :)
[03:57] <nixternal> there, no fighting :)
[03:57] <jjesse> nixternal: grin thanks i think
[03:57] <nixternal> hehe
[03:58] <jjesse> just trying to tfigure out what i am now responsible for doing :P)
[03:58] <nixternal> ya, cuz I definitely had no clue :)
[03:58] <nixternal> haha
[03:58]  * Jucato waves to nixternal....
[04:01] <DaSkreech> nixternal: houses sell for less than acrs in Chicago?
[04:01] <DaSkreech> cars
[04:02] <nixternal> I wish
[04:02] <nixternal> houses are super expensive here
[04:03] <nixternal> I think the census showed the average price of a house in Chicago was over $500k
[04:04] <DaSkreech> Hmm
[04:05] <DaSkreech> well the news lied then :)
[04:05] <DaSkreech> Wait
[04:05] <DaSkreech>  it was detroit
[04:05] <DaSkreech> not chicago
[04:05] <DaSkreech> Sorry never mind :)
[04:05]  * DaSkreech kicks kopete again
[04:08] <nixternal> heh, ya Detroit isn't pretty
[04:08] <jjesse> no one lives in detroit any more
[04:08] <nixternal> you want pretty, out by where jjesse lives is
[04:08] <DaSkreech> I know have you seen pics?
[04:08] <jjesse> they'v all moved out
[04:08] <DaSkreech> The hotel?
[04:08] <DaSkreech> But the net sucks there
[04:08] <nixternal> I think Benton Harbor is worse than Detroit honestly
[04:09] <jjesse> grin not in a hotel this week, actually home
[04:09] <jjesse> benton harlem?
[04:09] <jjesse> DaSkreech: you comming out to Boston?
[04:09] <DaSkreech> possibly
[04:10] <DaSkreech>  I'm being coereced into moving to the states so I might as well choose somewhere
[04:10] <jjesse> nice, i'm hanging out there all week
[04:11] <Jucato> yeah chicago is prettier... nixternal has a landfill that looks like a beautiful mountain from afar
[04:11] <jjesse> lol Jucato
[04:11] <nixternal> lol
[04:12] <nixternal> DaSkreech: you are in Jamaica now right?
[04:12] <DaSkreech> yup
[04:12] <nixternal> where at?
[04:12] <DaSkreech> Stupid IP address keeps giving it away ;-P
[04:12] <nixternal> no, you told me a long time ago you lived there
[04:12] <DaSkreech> :-)
[04:13] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[04:13] <Jucato> jamaica estates...
[04:13] <nixternal> Jamaica rocks!
[04:13]  * Jucato thinks his brain is beginning to boot
[04:13] <nixternal> w/o a doubt my favorite carribean spot
[04:13] <nixternal> u be jammin'
[04:13] <jjesse> Jucato: so it takes awhile for a cold boot? :)
[04:14] <Jucato> jjesse: longer than nixternal's vista
[04:14] <Jucato> :)
[04:14] <nixternal> my vista is broke
[04:14] <jjesse> wow i heard he booted that up friday and it is still working on it :)
[04:14] <Jucato> ow :(
[04:14] <jjesse> my vista works better then my ubuntu sometims
[04:14] <Jucato> more broken than usual?
[04:15] <nixternal> Jucato: I formatted it and put Debian, Kubuntu, and Foresight on it
[04:15] <nixternal> gave the DVD to my dad
[04:15] <Jucato> :)
[04:15] <Jucato> that's illegal right? :P
[04:16] <nixternal> it really annoyed me, and I figured 500GBs for Linux is better than 80GB for Windows
[04:16] <nixternal> Jucato: yup, but do I care?
[04:16] <Jucato> of course not. I don't either :P
[04:16] <nixternal> I think it is illegal just to open the box
[04:16]  * Jucato wonders if it's illegal to just talk to nixternal...
[04:17] <nixternal> speaking of vista...did you all see the "Ubuntu Still Sucks" post on InfoWorld?
[04:17] <Jucato> nixternal: btw, were you around at the Q&A last night (this morning?)?
[04:17] <nixternal> I wrote the CEO telling him to stop the idiots from posting
[04:17] <nixternal> Jucato: I was afk all day
[04:17] <Jucato> nixternal: then this is for you :) http://rafb.net/p/BQrMKc19.html
[04:18] <Jucato> are you handling tomorrow's (later?) Kubuntu session? or Tonio?
[04:19] <jjesse> nixternal:  is
[04:19] <nixternal> damn, you and Hobbsee pwnd him
[04:19] <nixternal> I think Tonio is
[04:19] <nixternal> but I will be around hopefully just in case
[04:19] <Jucato> want me to ask the million peso question again? :D
[04:19] <nixternal> no
[04:20] <nixternal> :)
[04:20] <jjesse> nixternal:  didn't i read on your blog that you were doing a talk?
[04:20] <nixternal> I did one yesterday
[04:20] <Jucato> jjesse: he did.
[04:20] <DaSkreech> nixternal: You came here?
[04:20] <Jucato> and I missed it :(
[04:20] <nixternal> one possibly tomorrow if Tonio doesn't show, and then the Documentation one on Saturday
[04:20] <nixternal> DaSkreech: many a times
[04:20]  * jjesse is at in-laws on saturday and will miss it
[04:20] <DaSkreech> Ubuntu still sucks btw :)
[04:21] <nixternal> hahaha
[04:21] <jjesse> how crazy is this, sunday morning i'm driving home from detroit, packing for boston and then flying grand rapids -> detroit -> boston :(
[04:21] <DaSkreech> nixternal: damn you Why didn't you tell me?!
[04:21] <nixternal> didn't know you then?
[04:21] <jjesse> what yoda?
[04:21] <Jucato> yoda?
[04:21] <nixternal> been to Montego a few times, Negril a few times, and Ocho Rios one time
[04:21] <jjesse> nixternal sounded like yoda
[04:22] <nixternal> hahaha
[04:22] <DaSkreech> Jucato: didn't get the one as to why he installed Kubuntu on his desktop?
[04:22] <Jucato> yeah forgot to...
[04:22]  * Jucato looks at his logs
[04:22] <DaSkreech> basically it's cause the rest of his family likes the iwndows look and he just needs the shell so he doesn't have to look at gui much
[04:23] <DaSkreech> he was answering HUGE numbers of questions though
[04:23] <Jucato> oh yeah
	i have other folks at home who are used to windows, and it's a bit more similar
[04:25] <jjesse> dang i missed that part
[04:25] <DaSkreech> I should reread that
[04:26] <DaSkreech>  he answered something about games that I missed
	also, i wanted to be familiar with both
[04:26]  * jjesse bed
	and for development purposes, i just need a shell
	and vim, of course :-)
[04:27] <Jucato> I didn't understand that last 2 though..
[04:30] <DaSkreech> he doesn't need the interface so having it doesn't bother him
[04:30] <Jucato> that's.... hm....
[04:30] <DaSkreech> I would assume that he knows Mez so he couldn't think that Mez was _accusing_ him of using Kubuntu
[04:30] <DaSkreech> but the answer sure comes off sounding like that
[04:31]  * Jucato will take early lunch to cool off...
[04:31] <DaSkreech> It's hot?
[04:43] <genii> Hmm. sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart when firefox is working on getting the index.html immediately black-screens my box with capslock/scrolllock flashing.
[04:43] <genii> Every time
[04:43] <nixternal> wow, that is a new one
[04:44] <genii> searching launchpad to see if it's known
[04:45] <nixternal> http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisedesktop/
[04:45] <nixternal> there is some good bathroom reading
[04:50] <nixternal> this is my favorite comment, and it is in one of his microshaft posts
[04:50] <nixternal> Yes, it's really hard to be productive with Ubuntu, specially because it offers you the option of working with four different desktops at the same time, because of the eye candy effects from Compiz Fusion, because of the indexed search it offers... Yes, I agree with you, Ubuntu is horrible, and working with Vista is like being in heaven! lol
[04:50] <nixternal> pwnd
[05:03] <DaSkreech>  ah
[05:03] <DaSkreech> desktops
[05:03] <DaSkreech> As in workspaces
[05:03] <DaSkreech> I was thinking ok. One X server with Gnome one with KDe one iwth Xfce ... umm one with Education?
[05:05] <nixternal> heh, yes workspace
[05:05] <nixternal> s
[05:05] <nixternal> at our release party this weekend, we stuck a 7.10 CD into one of the schools computers, an older Gateway, Celeron 2.0ghz I think...which XP was dead slow on
[05:06] <nixternal> well some of the guys started messing with compiz, and had like between 30 and 50 workspaces setup
[05:06] <nixternal> they just sat there and spun the cube to where it looked like a circle spinning, and never once did the computer slow down or crash...that totally impressed me and everyone there
[05:07] <nixternal> I will admit, the default setup for Compiz in Ubuntu is perfect
[05:07] <nixternal> I would definitely vote on having it in our next release of Kubuntu
[05:12]  * DaSkreech grumbles
[05:13]  * DaSkreech kicks stupid compiz
[05:21] <DaSkreech> I gues it will be useful for the kubuntu-d3sktop package
[05:35] <Jucato> nixternal: we'd have to make sure that we have a workable Compiz setup on KDE... specially when it comes to getting Compiz and Kicker to work together properly
[05:35] <yuriy> kicker and pager
[05:35] <Jucato> yep those 2
[05:35] <Jucato> virtual desktops
[05:35] <yuriy> and i feel like you're losing something with using compiz instead of kwin
[05:36] <yuriy> there are just all these little things that kwin does nicely
[05:36] <yuriy> (changing resolutions not being one of them... )
[05:37] <Jucato> considering kwin is made specially for kde, not surprising... I just wish Compiz made sure that worked :)
[05:39] <yuriy> Jucato: are you coming to UDS and/or FOSScamp?
[05:39] <Jucato> neither
[05:40] <DaSkreech> Wasn't metacity made just for gnome?
[05:40] <nixternal> Jucato and I are holding out until we get our paychecks!
[05:40] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[05:40]  * DaSkreech hats Kopete :-(
[05:40] <Jucato> hahah
[05:40] <nixternal> check out OpenBox
[05:40] <nixternal> it is pretty slick, for both Gnome and KDE
[05:40] <DaSkreech> Yeah I know there are loads of window managers
[05:40] <DaSkreech> Before KDE thats' all there was
[05:41] <nixternal> not true
[05:41] <Jucato> CDE ftw! :D
[05:41] <nixternal> haha yup
[05:41] <DaSkreech> There was a CDE for Linux?
[05:42] <DaSkreech> can I nuke Kopete? >-(
[05:42] <DaSkreech> I changed my Font colour and now I can't change it back
[05:42] <nixternal> holy smokes, check out XPDE
[05:43] <Jucato> hahaha
[05:43] <Jucato> that thing again? hasn't it died a horrible death yet?
[05:43] <nixternal> I have to admit, that is a pretty good idea in some use cases
[05:49] <genii> DaSkreech: Just rm ~/.kde/share/apps/kopete        then open it again
[05:49] <DaSkreech> Why can't I set it back?
[05:49] <genii> DaSkreech: close the app before you rm that file
[05:50] <DaSkreech> I have every colour setting to black and it's still white
[05:51] <genii> DaSkreech: I don't know why it won't let you set it back from inside kopete. But instructions given will return it to factory settings
[05:51]  * DaSkreech does mv
[05:52] <genii> DaSkreech: Did you hit f5 key after you made changes? Could be screen did not refresh
[05:54] <DaSkreech> .o0(Nope that made it worse)
[05:55] <genii> DaSkreech: Make some other change which should appear as obviously changed then try f5 again to see if it takes
[05:57] <DaSkreech> Everything chnges except the font
[05:58] <nixternal> oh wow, Kubuntu LiveCD for Gutsy, the first ever distro to work with my 21" widescreen monitor out of the box
[05:59] <DaSkreech> I guess it's time to install pidgin
[06:00] <yuriy> DaSkreech: that's the only program where i still prefer the gtk alternative
[06:00] <Jucato> yay kubuntu?
[06:00] <Jucato> :)
[06:00] <DaSkreech> Yeah I keep giving Kopete one more chance
[06:00] <yuriy> unfortunately it didn't get much love for 4.0
[06:00] <DaSkreech> I think it's dead to me till It grows up to Qt4
[06:00] <DaSkreech> I know
[06:00] <Pitabred> Kopete has recently stopped working with MSN, dumping core on me when I try to connect to my account
[06:01] <DaSkreech> But I really can't be bothered to find out why changing the font oclour changes any other random setting except the font
[06:01] <Jucato> Pitabred: known bug, fix committed (afaik)
[06:01] <Pitabred> Ahhh.  I haven't seen the update come through, unless it was in the latest kdelibs update
[06:01] <Pitabred> I haven't tried reconnecting to MSN since then
[06:01] <Pitabred> Anywho, I'm gone.  Thanks, Jucato
[06:02] <Jucato> it was
[06:02] <Jucato> (should be)
[06:04] <DaSkreech> Ok
[06:04] <DaSkreech> apparently people on the other side see black now even though I'm still white on white
[06:04] <DaSkreech> Guess I'll just type more carefully
[06:07] <nixternal> word has it that Foresight will release a beta of their KDE distro by the end of this week
[06:08] <Jucato> kool...
[06:08]  * Jucato wonders what it looks like.. green too? :D
[06:08] <nixternal> more than likely
[06:08] <nixternal> I just asked their devs why it has been so hush hush with poor documentation thus far
[06:10] <Jucato> btw, just saw the new packaging guide wiki.... haven't really read much yet, but looks nice so far... glad it's being showed some loving love :)
[06:12] <DaSkreech> Anyone recall what the proposal for grumpy was?
[06:13] <Jucato> iirc sabdfl answered it with something like the PPA
[06:14] <DaSkreech> He said the PPA would be the a good start for implementing grumpy
[06:14] <DaSkreech>  I guess grumpy == Sid
[06:15] <Jucato> I took it to mean that PPA is practically what Grumpy is
	[for those not in the know, Grumpy is about building daily packages from upstream]
[06:15] <nixternal> DaSkreech: similar to sid, yes
[06:15] <nixternal> it has been vaporware though for like 2 years hasn't it?
[06:15] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[06:15] <DaSkreech> I guess PPAs are the solution
[06:15] <DaSkreech> Doesn't Suse already have something like that?
[06:16] <nixternal> dunno
[06:16] <Jucato> yeah.
[06:16] <Jucato> build-something
[06:16] <genii> nixternal: Interestingly I have an IBM p200 monitor which i made a homemade adapter to from Sun to DVI and Gutsy saw it right off
[06:16] <nixternal> oh ya, that thing can build a package for almost any distro
[06:17] <Jucato> it's also what binner is using to build his KDE 4 Live CD's...
[06:17] <Jucato> build-dep? bwahahah
[06:17] <nixternal> I have tried all of the latest releases on this machine, openSUSE, Fedora, PCLOS, and then some...not one of them configured it correctly, and the easiest one to configure was PCLOS
[06:18] <Jucato> Build Service
[06:18] <Jucato> which you hate the most right?
[06:18] <nixternal> bui ya
[06:18] <nixternal> hehe
[06:18] <nixternal> Jucato: ya
[06:18] <Jucato> I've yet to come across a distro that detected and configured everything perfectly for my desktop or my laptop...
[06:18] <nixternal> the reason I hate it, is because it does such a huge injustice the free software, and because it is a turd in speed compared to anything
[06:18] <Jucato> I'm waiting for my gusty cd to install it on the laptop
[06:19] <DaSkreech> !info smolt
[06:19] <ubotu> Package smolt does not exist in gutsy
[06:19] <DaSkreech> !info smolt hardy
[06:19] <nixternal> the *buntu's work fine with my lappy
[06:19] <ubotu> Package smolt does not exist in hardy
[06:19] <nixternal> most distros do
[06:19] <DaSkreech> damn
[06:19] <DaSkreech> nixternal: gobuntu!
[06:19] <nixternal> what is it? if it is good and viable I will install it
[06:19] <nixternal> Gobuntu needs work
[06:19] <Jucato> nixternal: in Feisty, always on a new install, the full touchpad functions don't work. I have to run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[06:20] <Jucato> after that, it works fine
[06:20] <DaSkreech> What is what nixternal?
[06:20] <nixternal> smolt
[06:20] <Jucato> hardware database thingy
[06:20] <nixternal> ahh, Fedora's thing...ya
[06:20] <Jucato> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/
[06:21] <Jucato> opensuse on the other hand, does the touchpad perfectly, but never detects the correct resolution for my laptop... 10.2 and 10.3
[06:21] <DaSkreech> It looks great
[06:21] <DaSkreech> andit's a perfect base for Knoware
[06:21] <Jucato> infoware...
[06:22] <Jucato> knoware sounds like a badly-named KDE app :)
[06:22] <Jucato> you know, like knowit? :D
[06:22] <DaSkreech> It is :)
[06:23] <DaSkreech> http://developer.kde.org/summerofcode/knoware.html
[06:23] <Jucato> ah
[06:23] <Jucato> knoware sounds like a badly-named KDE app :)
[06:28] <nixternal> interesting information though
[06:28] <nixternal> I would love to see the source of how they are using the inductive logic
[06:28] <nixternal> that is hard stuff
[06:51]  * genii sips a nutrition shake and ponders seduc....er inductive logic
[06:51] <DaSkreech> Ok
[06:52] <DaSkreech> that's the most backward set of logic I've ever seen
[06:52] <DaSkreech> KDEvs Gnome discussion
[06:52] <DaSkreech> Which devolves into I don't like how they name apps why do they have so many Ks?
[06:52] <DaSkreech> And someone says how much they love Open source since KDE4 is going to run on Windows
[06:53] <DaSkreech>  he has a Mac cause one day they will be a near fully open platform
[06:53] <DaSkreech> ???????????????????
[06:53] <genii> X ran on windows for a long time now
[06:53] <DaSkreech> Yeah cygwin
[06:53] <DaSkreech> but Mac.. a ptotential open platform?
[06:53] <genii> no
[06:54] <genii> not cygwin
[06:54] <DaSkreech> how the heck did he come to that conclusion as a reason to use macs?
[06:54] <genii> Xming for example
[06:55] <genii> Well, Apple has promise. They DID make all MacOS under 8 free
[06:55] <genii> This CUPS thing tho I dunno
[06:56] <DaSkreech> I can get the source for MacOS 8?
[06:56] <genii> free, not open sourced
[06:56] <genii> You can download up to macos 7.5.5 from Apple without cost
[06:56] <genii> I use it on Basilisk2 emulator
[06:56] <DaSkreech> he said open
[06:57] <DaSkreech> In anycase it just occured to me that sabdfl is right
[06:57] <genii> I said they had promise. I didn't say they opensourced anything yet :)
[06:57] <DaSkreech>  CEOs have nothing on open source project managers
[06:57] <DaSkreech> How is that promise?
[06:58] <DaSkreech> Free as in beer is still just free beer
[06:58] <DaSkreech> which as we know is graet for upbuliding and making great progressive strides
[06:59] <genii> Has MSFT made even Win 3.1 free? No
[06:59] <DaSkreech> That still means that MS is giving out soda and apple is giving out beer
[06:59] <DaSkreech>  none of them have at all looked at speech
[07:00] <DaSkreech> nixternal: installed Fedora?
[07:01] <genii> @time toronto
[07:01] <ubotu> Current time in America/Toronto: October 25 2007, 02:01:08 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 5 days
[07:01] <nixternal> gave it a shot, yes
[07:01] <DaSkreech> nixternal: how many CDs does it take up?
[07:01] <genii> Bleh. alarm in 4.5 hours
[07:01]  * Jucato wonders why nixternal is still awake...
[07:01] <nixternal> 1am
[07:01] <nixternal> gonna crash here in a few..I was tweaking my new system
[07:02] <genii> Good night all, I gotta go <passes out coffee>
[07:02] <DaSkreech> 1am here too
[07:07] <DaSkreech> I wonder how big Debian is
[07:08] <Jucato> how big? depends on what you download
[07:10] <DaSkreech> Binaries
[07:12] <Jucato> I mean, 1 CD? 1 DVD? all?
[07:24] <DaSkreech> All of it
[07:24] <Jucato> 5 DVD's afaik
[07:36] <DaSkreech> It was 23 last time I looked
[07:37] <Jucato> maybe 23 CD's?
[07:37]  * Jucato shrugs
[07:38] <DaSkreech> Oh wait that might have been it
[07:38] <DaSkreech> I was trying to figure out where I went wrong :)
[07:39] <DaSkreech> ok still smaller than A BluRay
[07:39] <Jucato> heh
[07:39]  * Jucato heads for an afternoon nap
[07:45] <DaSkreech> GNOME sucks, just because Ubuntu uses it doesn't make it the most used. Yes Ubuntu is good but wait until a native KDE4 version of Kubuntu and then you will cry at how awesome it is.
[08:00]  * DaSkreech follows Jucato's lead
[10:21] <doc__> hi there
[11:03] <Tonio_> hi
[11:05] <Jucato> hi Tonio_! you taking the Kubuntu session later?
[11:06] <Tonio_> Jucato: argh !
[11:06] <Jucato> better poke nixternal if you ain't ready :P
[11:06] <Tonio_> Jucato: hum I was supposed to....
[11:06] <Jucato> hahah
[11:06] <Tonio_> Jucato: well the point is that I have to go in a meeting for work
[11:06] <Tonio_> I just learned about that
[11:06] <Tonio_> nixternal: ping ? ;)
[11:07] <Jucato> bwahahah :)
[11:07] <Tonio_> Jucato: there is a kin of emergency and I have to be there, I can't just say no to this....;
[11:07] <Tonio_> Jucato: it's not that funny, believe me
[11:07] <Jucato> oh sorry :(
[11:07]  * Jucato shuts up now...
[11:08] <Tonio_> Jucato: no big deal :)
[11:08] <Tonio_> Jucato: just that when you promiss to do something and at the last moment you have to decline.....;
[11:09] <Tonio_> Jucato: it is one of the things I consider the most uncomortable
[11:09] <Jucato> it can't be helped though... :(
[11:09] <Jucato> but I think nixternal is prepared to be Plan B just in case
[11:10] <Tonio_> Jucato: well I told him I wasn't sure I could be there..... looked that I was right
[11:11] <_StefanS_> Jucato: what kind of session is it?
[11:11] <_StefanS_> hey Tonio_
[11:12] <Jucato> just a general "About Kubuntu" session. I think nixternal made it into a Q&A sort of thing last time
[11:12] <Jucato> I wasn't there... hard waking up at 5am when the weather's all so cold :)
[11:14] <Tonio_> Jucato: I wasn't even there, I've been to buzy those last days
[11:14] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yop ;)
[11:14] <_StefanS_> Jucato: ah ok
[11:14] <_StefanS_> Tonio_:  I havent looked at the icon business yet..
[11:14] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: actually, did you see my replies to the bug on kdmtheme?
[11:15] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I tested on a standard kubuntu install, and it worked without problems. It seems like it might be problematic when ppl have been editing the kdm files manually (as I see it)
[11:16] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: well I installed my syste 2 weeks ago, I have the issues
[11:17] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I just can't seem to change the theme
[11:17] <Tonio_> no way to click "ok" for me
[11:17] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: are the issues those described in the bug aswell ?
[11:17] <Tonio_> yep
[11:17] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: like the checkbox not selected and such
[11:17] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: library missin or something ?
[11:17] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yep those issues, lemme loo again
[11:18] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I would like to solve it, but cant replicate the bug
[11:18] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: do you use it inside or outside systemsettings ?
[11:18] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: inside system settings
[11:18] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hu ? just tested ant it works now......
[11:18] <Tonio_> wtf ?
[11:18] <_StefanS_> hehe
[11:19] <_StefanS_> like magic.
[11:19] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: lemme try outside
[11:20] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hum it works.....
[11:20] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: dunno if maybe the fix is due to latest kdelibs update
[11:20] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: super strange btw
[11:20] <_StefanS_> well it might be something outside that broke it to start with
[11:20] <_StefanS_> like kdelibs you mentioned
[11:20] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yeah, just seems to work for me....
[11:21] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: I'll add comments on the bug
[11:21] <_StefanS_> cool
[11:21] <_StefanS_> thanks.
[11:21] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: don't waste your time on this one, better fix kdesudo hehe :)
[11:21] <Tonio_> nixternal: i'll stay here until 3pm
[11:21] <Tonio_> means 2pm utc
[11:22] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I'll do that
[11:22] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: donno when, but the aim is hardy still (?)
[11:22] <Tonio_> nixternal: I'll then have to go, so by advance : i'm sorry for not beeing there due to meeting planned at work I just learned.....
[11:22] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: see you
[11:22] <Tonio_> aim ?
[11:22] <_StefanS_> target
[11:22] <Tonio_> seems complicated to fix ? ah
[11:23] <_StefanS_> nah, but I cant tell you when I have the time.. have to finish up a webshop first
[11:23] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: yeah that's for hardy, so no emergency :)
[11:23] <_StefanS_> ok fine
[11:23] <_StefanS_> see you, and good luck on the meeting thing
[11:23] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: thanks !
[11:25] <_StefanS_> byee
[13:38] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: hey... I tested your kio-apt thing...works great!
[13:40] <nixternal> Tonio_: ?!?!? WHAT?
[13:40] <nixternal> :) just kidding
[13:40] <nixternal> that's cool...I gotcha
[13:40] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: anything I need to install to build this?
[13:40] <Tonio_> nixternal: I told you I was unsure.....
[13:40] <nosrednaekim> jpatrick: nope
[13:40] <Tonio_> I heard today that I'll have a meeting at 4 pm....
[13:40] <Tonio_> nixternal: sorry for this
[13:41] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: well yeah but is very limited atm
[13:41] <nixternal> hehehe, I know...I couldn't even remember the days we had picked, but I had a plan B, which was to just pretty much do what I did on Tuesday
[13:41] <nixternal> Tonio_: don't be sorry...it is OK :)
[13:41] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: I can't seem to find how to trust the apt:/ protocol on konq
[13:41] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: yeah.. I did notice that.
[13:41] <Tonio_> so that you don't have to accept the security thing every time in a new session
[13:41] <Tonio_> nixternal: :)
[13:42] <nosrednaekim> so did you guys pick up any recruits at your Open Week meeting?
[13:42] <nixternal> Riddell: didn't you talk to Linux+? They emailed me, the same thing I think they emailed you
[13:42] <nixternal> we had a few come in after the talk on Tuesday
[13:44]  * Jucato waves to the happy people in here
[13:46]  * n8k99 grumbles
[13:48]  * Jucato mumbles...
[13:48]  * nosrednaekim smiles
[14:04] <mhb> hi folks
[14:05] <nixternal> howdy mhb
[14:06] <mhb> hi nixternal, what's up?
[14:07] <nixternal> schoolio here in a bit
[14:07] <mhb> nice, I'm in it now
[14:08] <nixternal> ahh fun
[14:11] <mhb> ubuntu bashing, yummy ... thanks for the links, nixternal
[14:13] <Hobbsee> says the suse lover, yes.
[14:14] <mhb> Hobbsee: who's the suse lover? me?
[14:14] <Hobbsee> i thought so
[14:14] <Hobbsee> arent you another on suse now?
[14:15] <mhb> Hobbsee: I've never had suse on my system, I've tried it in VMs, but I never got past installation, it crashed all the time.
[14:16] <mhb> Hobbsee: my systems are still 100% pure kubuntu
[14:17] <Hobbsee> mhb: oh, ok
[14:17] <Hobbsee> i thought you were off exploring other worlds.
[14:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: not at all.
[14:18] <Hobbsee> had noticed you werent really here much
[14:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: uni is tough and time-consuming
[14:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: sorry for that
[14:18] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[14:18] <Hobbsee> assuming you're good.  unlike me.
[14:20] <nixternal> I am always exploring other worlds
[14:20] <nixternal> need to see what the others are doing better than us
[14:21] <mhb> nixternal: that's what I would do, too ... alas, I am one of those that have no time for exploring :o(
[14:21] <Hobbsee> nixternal: heh :)
[14:21] <mhb> nixternal: so it's good to see someone from the kubuntu dev planet does it
[14:21] <mhb> nixternal: rock on
[14:22] <nixternal> ya, me either right now...I am excited to see the Foresight KDE release hopefully this week
[14:22] <Hobbsee> mhb: the only danger is that they might leave
[14:22] <nixternal> do you think I would leave this?
[14:22] <nixternal> heck no
[14:22] <nixternal> unless they have better cookies of course
[14:22] <nixternal> :p
[14:23] <mhb> Hobbsee: that happens. It's a bit bittersweet to see the old meeting logs and see people you've never even met, or people that are long gone
[14:23] <Hobbsee> jpatrick's back, though
[14:23] <nixternal> yes it is
[14:23]  * Hobbsee wonders what would happen if she left.
[14:23] <nixternal> we knew he would be back
[14:23] <nixternal> the world would fall apart
[14:23] <mhb> Hobbsee: he must have left before I came in, I don't remember him before
[14:24] <nixternal> he used to run/help run the kubuntuforums.net and did some MOTU stuff
[14:24] <nixternal> he was gone for a while actually, or at least it seems
[14:25] <nixternal> you all see that GMail now does IMAP?
[14:26] <mhb> nixternal: yeah, great news
[14:26] <Hobbsee> mhb: yeah
[14:26] <Hobbsee> he was a motu earlier than i was
[14:28] <Jucato> he's also the youngest dev I've met... although I forgot his age now :)
[14:28] <Jucato> nixternal: want me to throw you one of my questions from the Q&A? :D
[14:29] <Jucato> later... you're at school >)
[14:29] <mhb> mmm, some more kubuntu today :o)
[14:30] <nixternal> hehe
[14:30] <nixternal> go for it Jucato
[14:30] <nixternal> I was still reading "Ubuntu Sucks" posts
[14:30] <Jucato> nixternal: http://rafb.net/p/lb4Opa15.html
[14:30] <nixternal> I love it, nothing bad about Kubuntu :)
[14:30] <Jucato> take a peek and take a pick
[14:30] <Jucato> perhaps Kubuntu hasn't hit his radar just yet? :)
[14:31] <mhb> what's the easiest way to query a system for a package?
[14:31] <Jucato> apt-cache search?
[14:32] <mhb> Jucato: yeah, I guess, we don't have any platform-independent way to do that, right? I'd like to have that integrated in a python app of mine
[14:32] <nixternal> what question would you throw me Jucato?
[14:32] <Jucato> nixternal: 2nd one
[14:32] <Jucato> mhb: I don't think so. but you might find an xdg- tool in xdg-utils.. just maybe...
[14:32] <nixternal> that will work
[14:32] <nixternal> I will just copy and paste sabdfl's comments
[14:33] <nixternal> hahahaha
[14:33] <Jucato> hm... he told me to ask the Kubuntu guys... and you're gonna tell me to ask the kubuntu guys? :)
[14:33] <nixternal> man, you and Hobbsee were tearing sabdfl up there for a bit :)
[14:33] <nixternal> that is pretty funny
[14:33] <Jucato> I think I'm on his blacklist now :)
[14:33] <nixternal> hahaha
[14:34] <Jucato> and if I do ask that again later... I'll be on yours too :)
[14:34] <nixternal> nevah
[14:34] <nixternal> because I am not going to dodge teh question
[14:34] <Jucato> we'll see :)
[14:35] <mhb> Jucato: do you know if apt-cache shows whether the package is installed or not?
[14:35] <nixternal> [00:53] <sabdfl> i have other folks at home who are used to windows, and it's a bit more similar
[14:35] <Jucato> mhb: nope. but aptitude does
[14:35] <nixternal> I think that is the worst answer/reason I have ever seen
[14:35] <Hobbsee> nixternal: :)
[14:35] <Jucato> nixternal: the  following answer is better
[14:35] <Hobbsee> nixternal: i like the fact that he got one of the answers wrong
[14:35] <nixternal> what is a NIH'er?
[14:36] <Jucato> not invented here (syndrome)
[14:37] <nixternal> hrmm, is that a low blow, or am I just reading it wrong?
[14:38] <Jucato> nixternal: sabdfl meant you don't have NIH syndrome a.k..a. not reinventing the wheel :)
[14:38] <nixternal> its kind of hard to invent when you have a small group of active developers, but there has been some invention that I have seen
 and for development purposes, i just need a shell <--- this one I like too :)
[14:38] <nixternal> ahh ya
[14:38] <Jucato> I just hope I'm not reading too much meaning into it :D
[14:39] <nixternal> everyone knows how much fun it is to stare at tty1-6 looking at project code :p
[14:39] <mhb> I think he meant "terminal emulator" instead of "shell"
[14:39] <nixternal> all the tabs in the world still doesn't make development stuff fun in ther terminal
[14:40] <mhb> hrm, is there a language-independent way to find out whether a package is installed?
[14:40] <mhb> I can grep some output from aptitude, but that actually changes with every language, that's not nice
[14:41]  * Jucato wonders if he meant "when I use the desktop w/ Kubuntu for development, I just use the shell/terminal emulator"...
[14:41] <Jucato> oh well
[14:41] <mhb> does he even develop anything?
[14:41] <nixternal> dpkg -l app
[14:41] <nixternal> Soyuz
[14:41] <ScottK> mhb: He does.  He's an active LP developer
[14:42] <mhb> ah, okay.
[14:42] <Hobbsee> mhb: yes.  lp.
[14:42] <ScottK> I've filed two LP bugs that ended up assigned to him.
[14:42] <nixternal> ScottK: you didn't file a "FREE THIS BASTAGE UP ALREADY" bug? :p
[14:42] <ScottK> No.  Someone else did that.
[14:43] <nixternal> lol, and I am sure you commented, or at least accepted the bug and set it to CRITICAL :D
[14:44] <ScottK> No, actually I didn't touch the bug.  I don't think it's ever going to happen.
[14:44]  * nixternal either
[14:44] <mhb> it will happen once there is a better free version of LP
[14:44] <nixternal> are there any project management systems that are free/open?
[14:44] <ScottK> sabdfl say it has to be so successful before it can be freed.  I don't think it will be so successful UNLESS it is free.
[14:44] <mhb> some DebianPad
[14:45] <mhb> nixternal: isn't trac open?
[14:45] <nixternal> I think so, but trac is lightyears behind right now
[14:45] <nixternal> I should have phrased the question better
[14:46] <nixternal> I know that Berlios, Sourceforge, Google, and others aren't...Sourceforge used to be I thought
[14:46] <ScottK> Sourceforge has a free version, but is suspected to be substantially different than what they actually run.
[14:46] <nixternal> I kind of like the way Google does theirs...you have everything for the project in one spot...bugs, code, wiki, docs, website
[14:46] <nixternal> like sourceforge, but easier
[14:47]  * Hobbsee taps fingers
[14:47]  * Hobbsee hums
[14:47] <nixternal> hehe
[14:47]  * Jucato whistles...
[14:47]  * nixternal goes to school
[14:47] <nixternal> back in a bit
[14:48] <Jucato> bye
[14:48]  * Jucato wonders why the LP idea hasn't caught on and no one developed an open source one in the meantime...
[14:48]  * Jucato whistles... again...
[14:50]  * Hobbsee notes that sabdfl has said that some of it will be opened up.
[14:51] <Jucato> yeah, piece by piece :)
[14:51] <Jucato> well at least bzr is open
[14:51] <Jucato> and python-based (I just found that out last night...)
[14:51] <mhb> and slow
[14:52] <Jucato> aws... I thought you're a python believer? :)
[14:52] <mhb> sure, python is not slow in general
[14:53]  * ScottK notes he said it was the fastest Python based VCS.
[14:53] <mhb> however, some apps, especially those that are run several times a day, have to be made so fast that the dev almost won't notice them.
[14:53]  * ScottK wonders if it's the only Python based VCS
[14:53] <mhb> mercurial is python, too
[14:53] <ScottK> Ah.
[14:53]  * ScottK didn't know
[14:54] <ScottK> One project I work on we've got C, Perl, and Python libraries and in the testing I've done, the Python one is substantially faster than the Perl one.  C wins though.
[14:55] <Jucato> sabdfl mentioned a new bzr release this week w/ improvements
[15:15] <bddebian> Heya
[15:18] <Jucato> hi bddebian
[15:19] <bddebian> Hi Jucato
[15:29] <mhb> I was thinking the other day...
[15:29] <Hobbsee> of shooting certain people?
[15:29] <mhb> if we're going to use Oxygen as our default iconset in KDE, we will look like all the other KDE4 distros, right?
[15:30] <mhb> which is somehow bad for marketing
[15:30] <mhb> well it doesn't matter to the KDE upstream devs, because they love all the distributions the same, but we don't
[15:30] <Hobbsee> hm, i guess so
[15:31]  * Jucato must honestly say -1
[15:31] <mhb> it's like Tango in the GNOME world ... Gentoo uses it, SLED uses it
[15:31] <mhb> there are opinions of switching to some tango-like theme for Ubuntu Hardy, but it would make Ubuntu look rather the same
[15:31] <mhb> Jucato: -1 to what?
[15:32] <Jucato> ah nvm. misread that
[15:32]  * Jucato thought using Oxygen on 8.04
[15:32] <mhb> Jucato: -1 as in "I like Oxygen" or -1 as in "our KDE will look differently even with Oxygen"
[15:32] <mhb> I like Oxygen personally
[15:32] <Jucato> but still -1 on the idea... shouldn't we first let people enjoy Oxygen before we decide on something else?
[15:33] <Jucato> and I"m not sure jr would approve... he didn't even approve changing the K Menu icon :P
[15:33] <mhb> hehe
[15:33] <mhb> yeah, we're with Crystal now, like many other distros
[15:33] <mhb> what I mean is that our goal here is a little different than the KDE4 guys' goal
[15:34] <mhb> they want KDE4 to ship and get users, no matter what distribution
[15:34] <mhb> on the other hand, we would like the users to try KDE4 with Kubuntu, not really with SUSE or PCLOS
[15:35] <Jucato> that works on the presumption that we'll actually get more users if we changed the icon theme :)
[15:35]  * ScottK wants a stable/working KDE in the release.  He is less concerned about version numbers.
[15:35] <Jucato> artistic taste is a very tricky thing..
[15:35] <mhb> ScottK: sure, I'm just fast-forwarding to Hardy+1 situation, this doesn't affect Hardy
[15:35] <Jucato> dont get me wrong, I do know how much the default artwork makes an impression
[15:35] <ScottK> OK.
[15:36] <Jucato> ScottK: we'll still be stuck with Crystal SVG :D
[15:36] <Jucato> (eek...)
[15:36]  * ScottK cares a lot less about the prettiness than the working.
[15:36] <apachelogger> unlike users ;-)
[15:37] <apachelogger> pretty > working
[15:37] <Jucato> unless it's pretty && !working
[15:37] <Jucato> then they do care
[15:37] <mhb> Jucato: indeed, it is tricky.
[15:37] <apachelogger> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=414 please drop it on your revu todo :)
[15:37] <mhb> I get a lot of negative responses to the Kubuntu current artwork, btw.
[15:37] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'm not reviewing this development cycle, sorry.
[15:38] <apachelogger> omg
[15:38] <Jucato> the problem is that with artwork, you'll always get very subjective feedback. unlike properly working apps :)
[15:38]  * apachelogger needs a doctor
[15:38] <Hobbsee> mhb: i'll admit to not liking it too.  and liking the gnome stuff.
[15:39]  * Hobbsee wonders if people wont ask her to review, as she's technically an archive admin
[15:39]  * Hobbsee wonders if she can use that excuse nayway :P
[15:39] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: ha! I'm sure you'll do revu of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=414, won't you? ;-)
[15:39] <Hobbsee> nope
[15:39] <Hobbsee> it's gone midnight.
[15:39] <Hobbsee> besides.  conflict of interests.
[15:39] <apachelogger> -.-
[15:39] <apachelogger> so
[15:39]  * Hobbsee can access the new queue.
[15:40] <apachelogger> where do I have to apply to become a motu?
[15:40] <Hobbsee> i thought your licences had to be *right* for that :)
[15:40] <Hobbsee> although i suppose an archive admin can still reject you.
[15:40] <Jucato> apachelogger: at #ubuntu-motu perhaps? :)
[15:41] <apachelogger> maybe I should get someone to become motu for me so that I can drop all the work to him/her
[15:41] <Jucato> new LP... hm...
[15:42] <ScottK> With the unfortunately usual high level of breakage.
[15:42] <Hobbsee> ScottK: no.  the screaming hasnt started on the ML yet.  it's been higher.
[15:43] <ScottK> True.  It's not record setting, but it does seem pretty boneheaded.
[15:43] <ScottK> Make a bunch of remote bugwatch changes and then release it broken.
[15:43] <manchicken> Man, this volume bug is just killing me, and I'm having to kill artsd left and right...
[15:43]  * ScottK would have expected some testing.
[15:44] <manchicken> This makes me sad.
[15:44] <Hobbsee> yay, artsd.
[15:44] <apachelogger> hm
[15:44]  * apachelogger is wondering why artsd just can't commit suicide
[15:44] <Hobbsee> needs some help?
[15:44] <Jucato> hm... I wonder why other binary KDE distros haven't made arts a recommends only :)
[15:56]  * Jucato sings Hobbsee a lullaby...
[15:57] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yes...i should go to sleep
[15:57] <Jucato> I will just trouble you later at nixternal's talk :)
[15:58]  * mhb is toying with a "Blue Human icon theme" idea
[15:58] <Jucato> isn't there one already?
[15:58]  * n8k99 is toying with blue humans
[15:58] <mhb> is there?
[15:58] <Jucato> I thought there is
[15:59]  * mhb remembers the blue man group performance he saw once
[15:59] <Jucato> hm.. iirc there was... can't see those now...
[15:59] <mhb> hmm, I'll ask at #ubuntu-artwork
[15:59] <Jucato> but, why not just colorize the icons? hehehe
[15:59]  * n8k99 remembers the blue man group episode of the Simpsons he saw once
[16:00] <mhb> Jucato: is that really such a silly idea?
[16:01] <Jucato> it's hard to gauge artwork's silliness :)
[16:01] <Jucato> I like the Human icons though... except they're so orange :)
[16:01] <mhb> Jucato: them folders look way nicer than Crystals
[16:01] <mhb> and we have to do something radical with the artwork for hardy
[16:01]  * Jucato prefers to use Nuvola...
[16:02] <Jucato> hm....
[16:02] <Jucato> I wouldn't... really.. um...
[16:02] <mhb> Jucato: isn't some pc-bsd using that already?
[16:02] <Jucato> radical artwork for an LTS\ release? :)
[16:02] <mhb> Jucato: yes, that is the way to go, check out the UDS specs for ubuntu
[16:03] <n8k99> i think that the blue elephant wallpaper should be used by default
[16:03] <Jucato> and we have to follow suit?
[16:03] <Jucato> oh well....
[16:03] <mhb> Jucato: they think the LTS should define the way to go for the next non-LTS versions
[16:03] <Jucato> what?!?!
[16:03] <mhb> visually
[16:03] <mhb> well IIRC
[16:03] <mhb> n8k99: I second that
[16:04] <mhb> Jucato: and you know, LTS is the ideal version where to change artwork, because most of the others stuff will be kept :o)
[16:04] <mhb> artwork doesn't segfault
[16:04] <Jucato> mhb: my concept of LTS is a bit different though...
[16:04] <Jucato> so I'm probably wrong...
[16:05] <Jucato> oh well, as long as it doesn't crash :D
[16:06] <Jucato> mhb: btw, before, during the start of my *buntu days, I was terribly jealous of Ubuntu having it's own icon set, it's own branded theme (GTK+ themes are just color schemes...) or window borders (pixmaps)
[16:07] <mhb> Jucato: I was *really* impressed by the Human icon theme when I first saw it... love at first sight, I guess
[16:08] <n8k99> mhb i'm rocking it now and need to make the kdm theme and splash screen use it as well!!
[16:08] <Jucato> mhb: it liked it too... except for the defalt palette.... but now I like Nuvola best among the kde3 icons :)
[16:08] <mhb> n8k99: we just need to konvince (heh) kwwii
[16:08] <Jucato> it's also the most semi-complete among other alternatives... almost
[16:08] <mhb> Jucato: yeah, completeness is a PITA for many icon themes
[16:09] <n8k99> i guess that means rallying support during UDS as well
[16:09] <mhb> n8k99: you'll be at this UDS?
[16:09] <Jucato> mhb: whatever happened to Fedora's Echo icons?
[16:10] <n8k99> i wish- i thought about booking too late to be able to afford the hotel
[16:10] <n8k99> and i have to bring my daughter with me, cause the wife is off on business trip that week
[16:10] <mhb> Jucato: I don't remember those ... I know the "not-so-pretty" theme they use in KDE now, but I don't know how it is called
[16:10] <n8k99> so doubt it- but i'll be in IRC rooms
[16:11]  * Jucato hopes he can do the gobby thingy this time...
[16:11] <Jucato> or listen into the sessions
[16:13] <n8k99> ooh thanks i forgot to add gobby to this machine
[16:14]  * Jucato sighs...
[16:14] <Jucato> kubuntu...
[16:26] <kwwii> mhb: kde4 uses oxygen icons (I started that as well) - I would rather stick to what upstream uses as the human icons will never fit with the kde icons
[16:30] <mhb> kwwii: I know that, but I somehow feel that with a generic look we won't offer anything more than, say, Debian
[16:31] <mhb> kwwii: do you remember me talking about the problem with Tango icons being too common now? I fear that will arrive with Oxygen icons once they will be widespread
[16:31] <Jucato> let Oxygen's magic "wow" wear off first...
[16:31] <mhb> okay, let's do that first
[16:32] <nosrednaekim> Oxygen in gutsy?
[16:32] <mhb> no, in hardy+1 earliest
[16:32] <Jucato> well anyway.. if you're planning to do something artistically radical for hardy.. oxygen won't be there yet :)
[16:33] <nosrednaekim> nuvola looks nice...
[16:33] <nosrednaekim> with polyester
[16:33] <mhb> yeah, and if we won't try & build some community around artwork, we will not move further much
[16:33]  * nosrednaekim wants a dark blue theme
[16:33] <mhb> I'm afraid our busy man kwwii won't get any less busier in this development cycle
[16:35] <nosrednaekim> what if I design it? I mean, i'm good withcolors, I just can't draw anything ;)
[16:35] <Jucato> :)
[16:35] <Jucato> wb jpatrick
[16:36] <kwwii> mhb: right, you might have a point and perhaps it would be nice to add a few icons of our own but first we need to find and artist :-9
[16:36] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: that was the easiest package ever
[16:36] <jpatrick> Jucato: ta
[16:37] <nosrednaekim> jpatrick: lol.... probably like gnu-hello
[16:37] <kwwii> so the plan is to still include kde3 for hardy? (if so, because it is long term support, I guess)
[16:37] <jpatrick> it finished building about 2 minutes after I left earlier with no errors
[16:37] <Jucato> kwwii: yep
[16:38] <kwwii> ouch, that sucks
[16:38] <kwwii> I get the point, but it still sucks
[16:38] <drsatyri> :(
[16:38] <Jucato> I'm imagining (and I think nixternal promised) separate KDE 4 CD's  though
[16:38] <drsatyri> kde4 is pretty though.
[16:39] <kwwii> if we still ship kde3 we can just wait to do any major changes in the artwork
[16:39] <kwwii> one good part about that is that it allows us to take a longer term look at the artwork plan
[16:40]  * Jucato nods
[16:40] <nosrednaekim> jpatrick: heh :)
[16:40] <jpatrick> apachelogger: around?
[16:41] <mhb> yeah, we should somehow create the Kubuntu (artwork) identity because we don't really have a vision atm
[16:41] <kwwii> one nice thing in gutsy - my printer finally works!
[16:41] <mhb> not that Ubuntu does
[16:41] <kwwii> mhb: the good thing is that we have the freedom to pretty much do whatever we want
[16:41] <Jucato> imho ubuntu has a stronger artwork identity though...
[16:41] <nixternal> gotta love when a teacher cancels...nothing like driving all the way there just to find out...sometimes I wish teachers knew what email was
[16:42] <Jucato> cellphones :)
[16:42] <kwwii> Jucato: definitely, there are a lot more people interested in the artwork side of ubuntu and sabdfl is willing to pay people to work on it :-)
[16:42]  * Jucato grumbles...
[16:42] <Jucato> nixternal: prepare for a bashing!
[16:42] <nixternal> kwwii: how could we get more people interested? there is some good work on kde-look.org
[16:43] <ScottK> nixternal: Convince sadfl to write checks.
[16:43] <Jucato> easier said that done :)
[16:43] <nixternal> bah, there are plenty of voluntold artists
[16:43] <nixternal> I mean volunteer
[16:43] <kwwii> nixternal: I have asked myself that question quite a few times...kde has always had very few good artists and the ones that are around I stole to make oxygen so they are working on other things
[16:43] <kwwii> what we need are people who are good artists *and* interested in kubuntu
[16:44] <kwwii> if you look at the best linux artwork it is almost always paid for by some company
[16:44] <drsatyri> are we talking widgets, icons, wallpapers or what
[16:44] <Jucato> hm.. kwwii.. has Ubuntu stuck to at least the same color scheme, widget theme (human) and window borders for a few releases now?
[16:44] <Jucato> drsatyri: all? :)
[16:44] <Jucato> except icons I presume
[16:44] <drsatyri> crystal is pretty
[16:44] <kwwii> drsatyri: icons and wallpapers mostly...the technical stuff is another problem in itself
[16:44] <drsatyri> hm
[16:45] <kwwii> it is hard to find developers who want to waste their time working with artists :p
[16:45] <jjesse> hrmm my sound starts quiet and then stars getting really really load
[16:45] <drsatyri> ha i see
[16:45] <jjesse> loud
[16:45] <mhb> Jucato: they have
[16:45] <kwwii> jjesse: that is the "pump it up" effect :p
[16:45] <mhb> Jucato: Dapper and Gutsy are pretty similar
[16:46] <Jucato> hm.. so far we've been changing every release right? hm.... not bad :)
[16:46] <nixternal> pump it up effect
[16:47] <nixternal> kwwii: I would love to be able to do artwork, but I totally suck at it...Inkscape is my biggest nemesis
[16:47] <kwwii> mhb: hrm? how is the dapper and gutsy artwork similar?
[16:47] <Jucato> nixternal: even more than karbon14? :D
[16:47] <kwwii> nixternal: lol, you are not the only one who is scared of inkscape
[16:47] <nixternal> I haven't really messed with karbon14
[16:47] <kwwii> karbon14 sucks major big time
[16:47] <drsatyri> isnt inkscape a lot like illustrator?
[16:47] <nixternal> I am not scared of Inkscape, I play around following tutorials and what not
[16:47] <Jucato> nixternal: friendly advice: don't :)
[16:47] <nixternal> I just suck
[16:48] <nixternal> guess I don't have the artistic eye anymore
[16:48] <kwwii> drsatyri: in some ways yes but in the most important ones, no
[16:48] <Jucato> nixternal: hm.. inkscape not that hard to use after you've tried k14 :)
[16:48] <nixternal> heh
[16:48] <nixternal> I could never figure out photoshop either, gimp on the otherhand is easy and I love it
[16:48] <drsatyri> hey i opened it to try it and it threw an internal error cool
[16:48] <nixternal> I can use their filters and people are like "damn man you are good"...little do they know that isn't me :)
[16:48] <Jucato> heheh
[16:49]  * Jucato hopes KOffice 2 will make karbon more likeable/usable...
[16:49] <mhb> kwwii: compare http://i.n.com.com/i/ne/p/2007/1016Ubuntu-Installing550x41.jpg and http://asher256.tuxfamily.org/images/ubuntu/ubuntu_dapper.png
[16:49] <mhb> kwwii: isn't that very similar?
[16:49] <Jucato> nixternal: this time, I will make sure I'm alive at your talk
[16:49] <Jucato> er.. awake
[16:49] <jpatrick> it's too late for me
[16:50]  * nosrednaekim should be there this time
[16:50] <Jucato> too early for moi
[16:50] <nixternal> Jucato: if you are around, then you will be apart of the A in Q&A :)
[16:50] <Jucato> kwwii: similar wrt color scheme, widget theme, window borders
[16:50] <Jucato> nixternal: hah! I'm the one giving all the Q's :P
[16:50] <nixternal> and I will be the one to say "you already know the answer", or "RTFM!" :p
[16:51] <Jucato> and so that I won't be hogging the mic, I'll log in w/ different names
[16:51] <nosrednaekim> it was that inactive last time?
[16:51] <kwwii> Jucato: yes, the color scheme, widget theme and window borders have not changed since dapper
[16:51] <kwwii> but the other parts have
 <Carlos_> <Torro> <Anrlrr>
[16:51] <kwwii> and btw that is not the dapper wallpaper anyway
[16:51]  * kwwii packs for boston
[16:52] <drsatyri> damn i cant recreate that
[16:52] <Jucato> oh FOSSCamp :(
[16:52] <nixternal> I was going to head out to FOSSCamp even though I wasn't invited...but I have a paper to do this weekend unfortunately
[16:53] <Jucato> darn. you're much needed there :(
[16:53] <Jucato> troy, annma, and robertknight will be there to represent KDE
[16:53] <nixternal> for what? I just wanted to meet Anne Marie, Tony, and others
[16:53] <Jucato> Tony?
[16:54] <nixternal> Troy I mean
[16:54] <nixternal> hehe
[16:54]  * Jucato looks for troy....
[16:54] <nixternal> Troy Unru*something or other
[16:54] <nixternal> I can say it, just can't spell it
[16:54] <Jucato> well, you're needed there to pimp Kubuntu of course :P
[16:54] <Jucato> Unrau
[16:54] <mhb> Unrau
[16:54] <nixternal> oh, I did spell it right
[16:54] <mhb> nixternal: me too
[16:54] <nixternal> just didn't want to look silly in case it was wrong
[16:54] <nosrednaekim> Unrau
[16:54] <nosrednaekim> me too
[16:55] <Jucato> nixternal: no you didn't :)
[16:55] <nixternal> ahh, I through in the "u", so you are right
[16:55] <nixternal> but when I was going to press enter before I changed to that, I had it right
[16:56] <nixternal> I would type it, back space it, type it, back space it, and so on :)
[16:56] <Jucato> :P
[16:56] <nixternal> OK, so who is ready to do some merges?
[16:56] <Jucato> ugh!
[16:56]  * nixternal looks for the "K"s that need some merging
[16:57]  * Jucato tries not to think about development first
[16:58] <nixternal> OK, is it me or are there not many "K"s to be merged
[16:58] <n8k99> nixternal: what do you mean merged?
[16:59] <nixternal> merged from Debian...we take their base package and make Ubuntu changes
[16:59] <Jucato> !merges
[16:59] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about merges - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[16:59] <Jucato> bah!
[16:59] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: you okay? :|
[16:59] <nixternal> maybe I will work at closing out some bugs instead
[16:59] <drsatyri> in gutsy?
[16:59] <n8k99> oh that merged!
[16:59] <drsatyri> my head is spinning
[17:00] <nixternal> no, Hardy
[17:00] <Jucato> hardy is open
[17:00] <nixternal> unless there is one needing an SRU of course
[17:00] <Jucato> n8k99: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#head-92bbe6d449420d5333115ba9b8bbde376b11f304
[17:01] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: abotu to kill this guy, but otherwise, yes.
[17:01] <n8k99> Jucato:  are you telling me that you want me to MOTU!?!
[17:01] <n8k99> :P
[17:01] <Jucato> n8k99: er nvm
[17:01] <Jucato> I thought you were asking what it was
[17:01]  * Jucato headdesks to wake up
[17:01] <n8k99> i was
[17:01] <Jucato> so I gave you the link
[17:02]  * n8k99 is too playful lately, rub back with sandpaper, pours alcohol on it
[17:03] <Jucato> LP session now..
[17:03] <nosrednaekim> I already heard this one..
[17:03] <nosrednaekim> just to let you know... you know everything he says
[17:03] <Jucato> I haven't
[17:04] <nixternal> lol
[17:05] <nosrednaekim> ok :)
[17:05] <Jucato> LP is a big jungle for me
[17:05] <Jucato> I actually hate going into LP :P
[17:05] <nixternal> ewww
[17:05] <ScottK> Jucato: You aren't alone.
[17:05] <Jucato> but I want to not hate it at least :)
[17:05] <Jucato> (even if I don't end up loving it)
[17:06] <nixternal> I just loaded the Ubuntu LiveCD to install on my desktop so I can test some stuff, and the wallpaper is hid-e-us! :p
[17:06] <Jucato> actually, I want to love it... because I believe in what it's trying to do...
[17:06] <nosrednaekim> chocolate brown?
[17:06] <nixternal> chocolate brown I could probably live with
[17:06] <nosrednaekim> Lp is slow on my dial-up...
[17:06] <nixternal> this looks like "I drank to much last night" brown
[17:06] <nosrednaekim> heh
[17:06] <Jucato> Hobbsee likes it :)
[17:07]  * Jucato hides
[17:07] <nixternal> typical, cause trouble and then run :)
[17:07] <Hobbsee> yes, i like the ubuntu wallpaper.
[17:07]  * nosrednaekim chases Jucato into #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[17:07] <Jucato> Launchpad... the Friendster of the FOSS world :D
 Launchpad is great at bringing free software people together <--- and here's the proof :)
[17:08] <n8k99> hmmm... can i friend fellow Launchpaddians?
[17:08] <Jucato> you can create a group/team )
[17:08] <mhb> Jucato: it brings semi-free software people, I don't think RMS will use it
[17:08] <n8k99> close
[17:08] <nosrednaekim> [12:08] <mrevell> For example: if I come across a feature blueprint that Jucato has filed, and I like his idea, I may want to help out. Let's say his idea is to create a new Ubuntu application for tracking information about Elvis impersonators.
[17:08] <Jucato> hahah funny
[17:09] <Jucato> mhb: of course...
[17:09] <Jucato> mhb: which has made me wonder for the past months... LP is a great idea... and some people don't want to use simply for not being totally open... so why hasn't anyone come up with a totally free alternative yet? :)
[17:10] <Jucato> (although I heard someone say that other distros might not want to use it even if it's 100% open.. because it's Canonical/Ubuntu's...)
[17:10] <mhb> Jucato: many has come up with such an idea, few have a) started working on it for free or b) opened it up
[17:11]  * Hobbsee suspects most wouldnt have the infrastructure, either
[17:11] <nosrednaekim> I think the reason LP is closed is because they don't want imitations
[17:11] <Jucato> haven't found/ heard of anything yet
[17:11] <Jucato> Hobbsee: that's probably the biggest hindrance...
[17:11] <nosrednaekim> because that would cause a lack of producticity
[17:11] <Jucato> well maybe.. maybe not.... :)
[17:12] <Jucato> [00:11] <mrevell> Just like people, teams can also be members of other teams.[00:11] <mrevell> This makes it easy to create a structure for a project or initiative within Launchpad.
[17:12] <Jucato> Social networking!!! :P
[17:12] <Hobbsee> hehe
[17:12] <Hobbsee> linked in is good for that
[17:12] <nosrednaekim> (DE)facebook!!
[17:12] <Jucato> btw... in fact there's an open sourced social networking software that was running on Ubuntu...
[17:13] <Jucato> they just open sourced it a few months back
[17:13] <nosrednaekim> mhb: hey... how would I test the firmware dialog in my restrcited-manager if I don't have a broadcom?
[17:13] <nixternal> you just wait for NEPOMUK-KDE and Decibel baby!
[17:13] <Jucato> nixternal: I can't wait :(
[17:14]  * n8k99 is waiting
[17:14]  * n8k99 is still waiting
[17:14] <nixternal> where your desktop can become part of the social networking stuff
[17:14] <Jucato> actually I am... and it's the only reasonable use I have for strigi...
[17:14] <Jucato> strigi + nepomuk-kde
[17:14] <nixternal> I can't stand that social networking stuff really...it is ashame people have to find friends online
[17:14] <Jucato> not sure about decibel though... I mean, I rarely use IM...
[17:14] <nixternal> everyone I want to let know what I am doing, I tell them on IRC or I call them :)
[17:14] <Jucato> mostly because you guys prefer IRC..
[17:14] <mhb> nosrednaekim: use the tests scripts I've provided in one of the dirs
[17:14] <n8k99> most of my online friends are old friend who i had lost contact with
[17:14] <drsatyri> multiplayer notepad :P
[17:15] <mhb> nosrednaekim: by the way, you may want to suspend your work on the frontend for a short while
[17:15] <nixternal> I have been seeing more and more people though, older people, using MySpace, and Facebook, and Twitter and what not
[17:15] <nosrednaekim> mhb: it comes with the normal deb?
[17:15] <n8k99> lawl at drsatyri!
[17:15] <mhb> nosrednaekim: do you know we're going to be rewriting r-m from scratch?
[17:15] <mhb> nosrednaekim: probably not
[17:15] <nixternal> I don't have time for it...I would put up a page and never look at it
[17:15] <nosrednaekim> mhb: backend changes?
[17:15] <drsatyri> thats not fair really though i got it from bash
[17:15] <nixternal> I would probably lose more friends that way, and right now I only 2
[17:15] <nixternal> kubuntu and kde :p
[17:16] <mhb> nosrednaekim: yes, huge
[17:16] <nosrednaekim> mhb: no I didn't...
[17:16] <n8k99> nixternal: you can set it so that you get alerts in akregator
[17:16] <nosrednaekim> mhb: any way I can help?
[17:16] <nixternal> my english is getting worse as I get older
[17:16] <mhb> nosrednaekim: you should monitor LP blueprints more .o)
[17:16] <nosrednaekim> heh.. I should
[17:16] <nixternal> n8k99: half the time I delete what's in akregator, unless it is Jucato of course
[17:16] <mhb> nosrednaekim: sure, at this phase, read through the code, post your suggestions etc. etc.
[17:16] <Jucato> haha :)
[17:16] <mhb> nosrednaekim: read the info pitti wrote etc.
[17:16] <Jucato> I keep a lot of feeds in akregator :)
[17:16] <nosrednaekim> ok....
[17:16] <mhb> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/restricted-manager-rewrite
[17:17]  * nosrednaekim goes up to read the blueprints
[17:17] <nosrednaekim> ah.. thanks :)
[17:17] <drsatyri> man the debian new maintainers guide is huge
[17:17]  * n8k99 has 134 subscriptions to Jucato
[17:17] <nixternal> Planet Ubuntu is, well just that, Ubuntu, with like 3 of us blogging about the K
[17:17] <nixternal> maybe 5 at most
[17:17] <Jucato> lol
[17:17] <mhb> nixternal: three?
[17:17]  * Jucato has lots of feeds
[17:17] <mhb> nixternal: you, jucato and riddell?
[17:17] <nixternal> Planet KDE is great, if you understand 50% of the time what they are talking about, and when there isn't a KHTML/WebKit war going on
[17:17] <Jucato> hahah
[17:18] <n8k99> i'm thinking of applying for membership that could put another blue voice on the planet! :P
[17:18] <Jucato> nixternal: mhb is also blogging about K.. so that's 4 of us
[17:18] <nixternal> which, if that war didn't go on, I wouldn't have learned stuff I have been wondering for a while
[17:18] <mhb> Hobbsee did back in the day, apachelogger did, too
[17:18] <Jucato> n8k99: you have a blog? feed link please? :)
[17:18] <nosrednaekim> screenshots are nice....!
[17:18]  * nosrednaekim likes pretty stuf
[17:18] <n8k99> http://so.nacreo.us
[17:18] <n8k99> i'm on planet-ubuntuusers right now
[17:18] <Hobbsee> mhb: sorry?
[17:19] <Jucato> ah... I never got on that
[17:19] <Hobbsee> nixternal: ah, so i'm not the only person not to undersatnd :P
[17:19] <drsatyri> question: is there a better kubuntu room to ask beginner questions?
[17:19] <drsatyri> beginning developer, that is
[17:20] <Jucato> drsatyri: yep
[17:20] <Jucato> drsatyri: #kubuntu-devel
[17:20] <Jucato> I heard that's the best place to ask
[17:20] <drsatyri> er
[17:20] <mhb> drsatyri: just ask
[17:20] <mhb> drsatyri: we'll answer
[17:20] <drsatyri> oh whats merging then
[17:20] <drsatyri> lol
[17:20] <drsatyri> like packages?
[17:20] <Jucato> drsatyri: <Jucato> n8k99: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#head-92bbe6d449420d5333115ba9b8bbde376b11f304
[17:20] <drsatyri> cool thx
[17:20] <n8k99> sneaky!
[17:21] <Jucato> ready :)
[17:24] <Jucato> why must the good talks all be today?  :(
[17:24] <n8k99> cause tomorrow never comes
[17:24] <Hobbsee> Jucato: you wanted to see all the LP ones?
[17:24] <mhb> cause tomorrow comes today
[17:25] <Jucato> Hobbsee: well there's the bug session...
[17:25] <Jucato> then the Q&A a bit..
[17:25] <Hobbsee> ah right
[17:25] <Jucato> but I have to skip those so I can be up for nixternal...
[17:25] <Hobbsee> chuck an all-nighter :)
[17:26] <Jucato> I just came from being sick... can't :(
[17:27] <Jucato> what would be LP's counterpart to websvn?
[17:27] <Jucato> simply code.lp.net?
[17:27] <nosrednaekim> I think so.. yes
[17:27] <nosrednaekim> ask;)
[17:27] <Jucato> no:)
[17:28] <nosrednaekim> heh
[17:30] <Jucato> btw, for those who haven't read it yet, interesting thread about Kubuntu: http://dot.kde.org/1193221760/
[17:30] <nosrednaekim> mhb: sooo, what am I looking for in this spec? is there any code written yet? sorry, i'm pretty new to this ;)
[17:30] <mhb> nosrednaekim: the process goes like this:
[17:30] <mhb> nosrednaekim: we write what we want
[17:30] <mhb> nosrednaekim: we discuss it at UDS (what classes will we use, what interfaces etc.)
[17:30] <mhb> nosrednaekim: then we hack
[17:31] <nosrednaekim> oh! UDS = ubuntu dev summit
[17:31]  * nosrednaekim does a deskhead
[17:32] <drsatyri> so mom is just a big list of merges that need to be done?
[17:32] <jjesse> who is talking bout my mom?
[17:33] <drsatyri> whos asking
[17:33] <drsatyri> :P
[17:33] <Jucato> good noon jjesse
[17:33] <kwwii> I love my mother, and you can too for just 19.95!
[17:33] <nixternal> hahaaha
[17:33] <Jucato> roflmao
[17:34] <Nightrose> squirrelpimp: meinst du konrad miller?
[17:34] <Nightrose> sorry wring channel
[17:34] <Jucato> bwaahahaha
[17:34] <Jucato> roflmao
[17:34] <Jucato> oh good Nightrose's is here
[17:35] <jjesse> good midnight Jucato
[17:35] <Jucato> :D
[17:35] <Nightrose> hehe
[17:35] <Nightrose> jes I am
[17:35] <Nightrose> narf - typos--
[17:35] <Jucato> Nightrose: can you please confirm, that for vanilla Amarok, Win+C is pause?
[17:35] <nixternal> jjesse: did you get an email from Linux+?
[17:35] <Nightrose> Jucato: let me check - one sec
[17:36] <Jucato> Play/Pause I mean.. Global Shortcuts
[17:36] <Nightrose> Jucato: for me it is ctrl+alt+p and I never touched the shortcuts
[17:37] <Jucato> but that's on Kubuntu right?
[17:37] <Jucato> hm... I have a feeling that it's not supposed to be that though...
[17:37] <Nightrose> ah yes it is
[17:37] <Nightrose> ok I will check with the devs and get back to you
[17:37] <Jucato> Nightrose: ok thanks. but not really critical though :)
[17:38] <Nightrose> ;-)
[17:38] <Jucato> it's been a nagging question in my mind for 2 releases now :)
[17:38] <mhb> Jucato: which one?
[17:39] <drsatyri> man this looks like a grueling process
[17:39] <Jucato> mhb: I suspect that Amarok's default Global Shortcut for Play?Pause is Win+C, while we have it at Ctrl+Alt+P
[17:39] <Hobbsee> we ahve some whacky amarok defaults.
[17:39] <Jucato> that's one change I don't seem to understand though...
[17:39] <Jucato> it sort of breaks the "flow" of Win+Z to B
[17:41] <Jucato> Hobbsee: someone asked the million dollar Q!
[17:41] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yup :D
[17:41]  * nosrednaekim hopes it was him..
[17:42] <jjesse> i always miss that question :(
[17:42] <Jucato> oh you wouldn't :)
[17:42] <nosrednaekim> what was it... "why isn't launchpad FOSS?"
[17:42] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: you want to be on Canonical's hitlist? :)
[17:43] <Jucato> poor mrevell... lecturer and question fetcher all in one :P
[17:43]  * nosrednaekim envisions Zulu warriors at his door
[17:43] <Hobbsee> heh
[17:44] <nosrednaekim> popey isn't in there?
[17:44] <Jucato> apparently :)
[17:44] <Hobbsee> matt said he ws fine dealign wth the qns
[17:45] <Jucato> :D
[17:48] <nosrednaekim> mhb: well, I read the spec, sounds good :) when you get around to the code, I'll write the command line part for sure :)
[17:49] <Nightrose> Jucato: acording to one of our devs you are right
[17:50] <Jucato> Nightrose: oh thanks
[17:50]  * Jucato will poke someone here about that soon
[17:55] <nixternal> Jucato: no plan for sleep until the talk?
[17:55] <nixternal> you can go catch a 4 hour snooze
[17:55] <Jucato> I will be sleeping.. so I have to skip the other sessions
[17:56] <nixternal> there is no way I can stay up like that
[17:56] <nixternal> I am so tired right now and it is just now noon here
[17:56] <Jucato> :)
[17:56] <Jucato> last Open Week, I almost stayed up late the whole week
[17:56] <Jucato> turned my body clock upside down
[17:57] <nixternal> I am glad that this UDS is in boston, so as long as they have the voip stuff setup, I can participate
[17:57] <Jucato> those were the days...
[17:57] <nixternal> although, I will be in class most of the time
[17:57] <Jucato> I was a wide-eyed newbie...
[17:57]  * nosrednaekim is lucky that the sessions are between 11 and 5 in the US ;)
[17:57] <nixternal> hehe
[17:57] <Jucato> I need to setup voip and gobby here
[17:57] <Jucato> I want to be there :P
[17:57] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: where are you at?
[17:58] <nosrednaekim> NJ
[17:58] <nixternal> you are definitely east coast
[17:58] <nixternal> ahh, i am sorry :)
[17:58] <nosrednaekim> lol
[17:58] <nosrednaekim> me too
[17:58]  * nixternal was stationed in Earl, NJ for a few months
[17:58] <nosrednaekim> Earl? is that north?
[17:58] <nixternal> Atlantic City used to be fun though
[17:58] <nixternal> earle that is
[17:58] <nosrednaekim> i'm right between Phily and AC... little town called Hammonton
[17:58] <nixternal> monmouth county
[17:59] <nosrednaekim> ah.. up there...
[17:59] <Jucato> Phily!!!!
[17:59]  * Jucato only knows Phily through Cold Case
[17:59] <nosrednaekim> *which happens to be the Blueberry capital of the world
[17:59] <nosrednaekim> Monmouth isn't too bad... Newark though.... yech!
[18:00] <nixternal> it is about 10 miles south of staten island
[18:00]  * Jucato thinks he needs sleep when he misreads "staten"
[18:01] <nixternal> northern shore..it isn't actually Earle, NJ, but everyone calls it that since it was a military base
[18:01] <nixternal> Sandy Hook Bay I think was the name of the bay
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> yup...
[18:01] <nixternal> I was only there for a few months, but spent most of the time on the ship
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> South Jersey is far better.
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> but still really bad.
[18:02] <nixternal> hehe
[18:02] <nixternal> been to the bada bing?
[18:02] <nixternal> hahaha
[18:03] <nosrednaekim> bada bing? don't think so.
[18:03] <Jucato> bada bing bada boom?
[18:03] <nixternal> the sopranos
[18:03] <nosrednaekim> nope...
[18:03] <nosrednaekim> BTW... i'm 17 if that narrows down the locations i've been to
[18:04]  * Jucato heads for bed...
[18:04] <Jucato> nixternal: if you'd like to take a look into that Amarok Global Shortcuts thingy
[18:04] <Jucato> although it's not a big issue
[18:06] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: hehe, then that would explain the bada bing :)
[18:06] <Jucato> nixternal: see you later. I'll contemplate throwing difficult/controversial Q's or not :)
[18:06] <nixternal> hehe, sleep tight
[18:06] <nosrednaekim> thought so...
[18:06] <nixternal> what is the amarok global shortcuts?
[18:06]  * Jucato is sure nixternal will hate him later
[18:06] <nixternal> super-c
[18:06] <Jucato> nixternal: our global shortcut for Play/Pause is Ctrl+Alt+P
[18:07] <nixternal> works great here
[18:07] <Jucato> it should be super+c (vanilla)
[18:07] <Jucato> dunno why it's C-A P
[18:07] <Jucato> it breaks the "flow" of Win+Z to B
[18:08] <nixternal> k
[18:08] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: thought you were going to get some sleep...
[18:08] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[18:08] <Jucato> nixternal: there might be a very big reason why, so I'm not sure
[18:08] <Jucato> anyway, see yah don't wanna be yah!
[18:42] <drsatyri> hey is cdbs the right thing to use each time or what?
[19:51] <_StefanS_> evening!
[19:51] <DaSkreech> Hello
[19:52] <_StefanS_> hey
[19:52] <_StefanS_> anything happening?
[19:53] <DaSkreech> Yep
[19:53] <DaSkreech> CXoffice is sucking
[19:55] <_StefanS_> crossover?
[19:56] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[19:56] <_StefanS_> doesnt it always..
[19:56]  * DaSkreech smils
[19:56] <_StefanS_> run a vm insteade
[19:56] <DaSkreech> +e
[19:56] <DaSkreech> Sounds like a near feasible idea
[19:56] <DaSkreech> Would have to retrain the staff though
[19:56] <_StefanS_> well it works 100%.. not like that wine
[19:56] <_StefanS_> crossover thingy
[19:57] <DaSkreech> Oh no it works and runs office fine
[19:57] <_StefanS_> I believe that some recent release actually supported export of only application windows...
[19:57] <_StefanS_> was it parallels
[19:57] <DaSkreech> Just that if they put in a USB drive it doesn't seem to get an auto Drive Letter
[19:57] <_StefanS_> uhm
[19:57] <_StefanS_> oh
[19:57] <DaSkreech> Which the new wine has
[19:57] <DaSkreech>  But this is an edgy box
[19:57] <DaSkreech>  I'll work it out
[19:57] <_StefanS_> dist-upgrade? :)
[19:58] <DaSkreech> Yeah They can't pay me :)
[19:58] <_StefanS_> uhm I need a new thinkpad
[19:58] <_StefanS_> heh, so you wont do it? :)
[20:00] <DaSkreech> No I can. They can't afford to pay me to sit through two upgrades
[20:01] <_StefanS_> sounds like a cheapass company to me
[20:01] <_StefanS_> thats not alot of money
[20:01] <_StefanS_> probably a small firm, or institution
[20:03] <DaSkreech> Very
[20:04] <DaSkreech> Though to put it in perspective they can hire me to do an install of gutsy
[20:05] <_StefanS_> too bad they dont have a big enough budget for a small task like that, I bet windows servers has taken a whole lot more time. But it always seem more accepted.
[20:06] <DaSkreech> NO they run the whole backend on LInux
[20:06] <DaSkreech>  the old admin had Ubuntu installed on his machine
[20:06] <DaSkreech> hence it being old and unfriendly
[20:06] <DaSkreech>  he's gone now and they want to move all the machines to Linux
[20:07] <DaSkreech> But this one had a Windows DLL crash on boot so I'm fixing it in the interim
[20:07] <_StefanS_> ah ok
[20:07] <_StefanS_> just presumed stuff..
[20:07] <_StefanS_> nice to have a customer with full linux install
[20:08] <DaSkreech> We have about 4 now
[20:08] <DaSkreech>  and two more wanting
[20:08] <_StefanS_> nice
[20:08] <drsatyri> hello all
[20:08] <DaSkreech> They are windows now :)
[20:08] <DaSkreech>  but they saw the price of Vista and balked
[20:08] <_StefanS_> DaSkreech: so youre regular employee? or contractor?
[20:09] <DaSkreech> would prefer to throw that money into something that won't repeat the cost every two years
[20:09] <DaSkreech> Contractor
[20:09] <_StefanS_> nice
[20:09] <_StefanS_> me too
[20:09] <DaSkreech> That's why they can't afford to have me sit down watching packages download
[20:09] <DaSkreech> I'm charging per minute
[20:09] <_StefanS_> per minute? I never heard that before
[20:09] <DaSkreech> They work it out to that
[20:09] <_StefanS_> usually its 30mins / 1 hour
[20:09] <_StefanS_> ah ok
[20:10] <DaSkreech> They like number juggling :)
[20:10] <_StefanS_> ofcourse it also means that they dont pay for extra time
[20:10] <_StefanS_> but sometimes its hard to estimate it
[20:10] <DaSkreech> Yeah
[20:10] <_StefanS_> but hey, you get better at it ;)
[20:10] <DaSkreech> Ok lets see how this Dell restore Utility handles partitions
[20:10] <DaSkreech>  Reboot!
[20:11] <_StefanS_> see you
[20:22] <DaSkreech> Hmmm that's not good
[20:22] <_StefanS_> kwwii: you there?
[20:23] <_StefanS_> kwwii: need some quick help
[20:23] <drsatyri> ok, im trying to do my first merge with apt-setup
[20:23] <drsatyri> here.we.go.
[20:23] <DaSkreech> Go man go!
[20:24] <_StefanS_> what is those merges about ?
[20:24] <_StefanS_> dont really understand it :D
[20:24] <drsatyri> i "get" it
[20:24] <drsatyri> i just dont get the process yet
[20:24] <_StefanS_> uhm good for you, so what is it
[20:24] <_StefanS_> :)
[20:24] <drsatyri> lol its taking unstable debian packages and "migrating" them to ubuntu for the next release
[20:25] <drsatyri> i just found that out myself
[20:25] <drsatyri> theres a lot more to it
[20:25] <_StefanS_> uhm ok
[20:25] <_StefanS_> thanks
[20:28] <drsatyri> does kate have two-panel document viewing?
[20:28] <drsatyri> yes it does nvm
[20:29] <DaSkreech> If it can follow your mind. It's in KDE
[20:29] <_StefanS_> wtf..
[20:29] <_StefanS_> doesnt kate have a tabbed view for open files?
[20:30] <DaSkreech> Yes
[20:30] <DaSkreech> I think he was looking for split view
[20:30] <DaSkreech> Wait
[20:30] <DaSkreech>  you mean Non tree?
[20:31] <_StefanS_> just tabs really
[20:45] <drsatyri> anyone know anything about the apt-setup package?
[20:58] <manchicken> Does anybody know if there's anything like gnotime for KDE?
[20:59] <manchicken> karm seems to have some historical info...
[21:12] <drsatyri> man this is confusing
[21:14] <jpatrick> what is?
[21:15] <drsatyri> im trying to merge the latest apt-setup but the differences are in bash scripts
[21:16] <jpatrick> nop... can't say i've done that before
[21:16] <drsatyri> i might try an easier one for my first merge
[21:17] <jpatrick> try a kde one :)
[21:18] <mhb> evening
[21:18] <jpatrick> evening mhb
[21:18] <drsatyri> when it says "contains diff3 content markers" whats that mean
[21:18] <mhb> am I still on time for nixternal's great presentation?
[21:18] <mhb> hi jpatrick
[21:18] <jpatrick> another 3/4 of an hour I think to ggo
[21:20] <mhb> good
[21:21] <fdoving> evening.
[21:22] <mhb> hi fdoving
[21:22] <fdoving> hi mhb.
[21:28] <kwwii> _StefanS_: yepp
[21:28] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I need some quick advise on some tables coloring to fit an existing theme
[21:28] <_StefanS_> kwwii: --> pm
[21:29] <manchicken> Ooh, I figured out how to get KArm to work with Kontact.
[21:29] <manchicken> Just import karm's iCal file as read-only :)
[21:30] <manchicken> Sweet.
[21:43] <drsatyri> damn there was a whole intro primer to packaging last friday and i missed it :/
[21:43] <drsatyri> wait
[21:43] <drsatyri> thats this friday
[21:46] <fdoving> feel free to ask if you have specific questions.
[21:48] <drsatyri> ok well im merging kaffeines sid version and im to the point where im reading the report
[21:48] <drsatyri> i used grab-merge to get the files but i dont know what im comparing here
[21:49] <fdoving> is grab-merge in the revu-tools package? - i usually do this manually.
[21:50] <drsatyri> i found it on a site describing first-time merging: http://nvalcarcel.aureal.com.pe/?p=146
[21:50] <fdoving> ah.
[21:51] <drsatyri> i guess what im doing right now is comparing the debian source to the ubuntu source
[21:51] <drsatyri> im lost, basically. :)
[21:51] <fdoving> yep.
[21:51] <fdoving> you are.
[21:52] <drsatyri> so its a judgement call?
[21:52] <nixternal> *yawn*
[21:52] <drsatyri> sorry i dont have exciting problems :)
[21:53] <fdoving> drsatyri: yeah, the idea is to figure out which ubuntu changes needs to be applied (if any) to the debian package.
[21:53] <stdin> glad to see you're alive nixternal :)
[21:53] <nixternal> just got done going for a quick walk
[21:53] <drsatyri> like here the report says ill find .debian and .ubuntu files that need to be merged into the original file name
[21:53] <nixternal> ooh, gotta give the dog his meds before this starts
[21:53] <drsatyri> but theres only debian files
[21:57] <stdin> hey Jucato :)
[21:58] <Jucato> hey
[21:58]  * Jucato wonders if Professor Nixternal is ready
[21:59] <mhb> nixternal: you up? good luck!
[21:59] <drsatyri> where is this presentation?
[21:59] <stdin> just got this "[21:58] -nixternal- tell Jucato I had to leave so there will not be a talk about kubuntu"
[21:59] <nixternal> damn
[21:59] <nixternal> sell me out why don't you
[21:59] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[21:59] <stdin> nixternal: well you can tell him yourself
[21:59] <stdin> :p
[21:59] <Jucato> seriously?
[22:00] <nixternal> it would have been a good joke seeing he only went to sleep for a few hours :)
[22:00] <fdoving> drsatyri: the debian changes looks good to me. the update some packages that are not kubuntu specific, there is also a maintainer change in debian/control, you'll have to set that to ubuntu core dev.
[22:00] <stdin> /notices kinda disturb me, not used to them
[22:00] <Jucato> and just woke up 3 minutes ago
[22:01] <drsatyri> how did you tell that they looked good?
[22:01] <drsatyri> oh
[22:01] <fdoving> drsatyri: i don't inspect them closely at all, i trust the debian kde extras team to do great work as usual.
[22:02] <Jucato> oh there, my other alarm clock went off a bit late...
[22:04] <drsatyri> ok so those .debian files are additional patches
[22:04] <drsatyri> and this source directory is just the mom suggested source
[22:04] <Jucato> hi mom!
[22:05] <drsatyri> theres a running joke that i havent got yet with that
[22:06] <fdoving> drsatyri: yeah, mom suggested source, except you need to do something to the .debian or .ubuntu files. that is usually editing with your changes if any are needed and rename them to remove the .debian or .ubuntu extension.
[22:06] <drsatyri> and the only change here would be the maintainer change, which goes to "ubuntu core dev"
[22:06] <drsatyri> k ill try to follow the guide from here, thanks
[22:07] <fdoving> drsatyri: Maintainer: Ubuntu Core developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
[22:07] <fdoving> something like that.
[22:07] <fdoving> you should also make a Original-Maintainer: field.
[22:08] <fdoving> but, read the changelog, have a look at which changes are done in the kubuntu patches. if they add dependencies etc.
[22:08] <jpatrick> Jucato: I think you'll be pleased to know that I've ripped apart Katapult with KDE4 stuff
[22:09]  * Jucato is pleased :)
[22:09] <drsatyri> k thats a negative
[22:10] <drsatyri> now ill rebuild the package
[22:14] <jpatrick> phew, it's the katapult/ directory done
[22:15] <nosrednaekim> jpatrick: another program that would be nice to have is "qlwm"
[22:16] <jpatrick> echo "qlwm" >> TODO
[22:16] <drsatyri> im getting an error about the debian/rules file saying on line 7 theres a missing operator, but "<<<<<<< kaffeine-0.8.5-0ubuntu1 (ubuntu)" is line 7
[22:16] <drsatyri> when i try to buildpackage, that is
[22:17] <Jucato> jpatrick: your attention was "called" in -classroom :P
[22:18] <jpatrick> Jucato: and it was responed too
[22:19]  * jpatrick gets rid of the button konversation tabs
[22:19] <Jucato> :D
[22:22] <stdin> compiling on windows? sounds... fun
[22:25] <manchicken> This intel HDA thing also kills my headphone jack.
[22:25] <manchicken> This sucks.
[22:25] <manchicken> I can't use speakers with my lappy.
[22:27] <nosrednaekim> manchicken: got your lappy back?
[22:27] <manchicken> Yeah, last week.
[22:27] <manchicken> Gutsy was doing fine on it, but now I'm having lots of issues.
[22:27] <manchicken> Mostly kmix/kmilo/artsd related.
[22:30] <nosrednaekim> yeah.... I've been hearing alot of problems with kmilo
[22:30] <Jucato> mhb should probably take a look
[22:31] <nosrednaekim> is he the little minion?
[22:32] <jpatrick> we all are
[22:32] <Jucato> I consider him as the kmilo dude minion
[22:35]  * mhb is looking around
[22:35] <mhb> what should I target my X-Ray vision at,
[22:35] <mhb> ?
[22:36] <Jucato> look up? :)
[22:36] <Jucato> no, don't target your xray vision at the ceiling/next floor
[22:36] <nosrednaekim> mhb: kmilo
[22:36] <nosrednaekim> get to work
[22:36]  * nosrednaekim snaps the whip
[22:37] <mhb> nosrednaekim: details? bug number?
[22:37] <nosrednaekim> mhb: I'm kidding, manchicken was complaining about it though.
[22:37] <Jucato> mhb: poke manchicken. he has more details
[22:40] <mhb> okay, manchicken
[22:40] <manchicken> mhb: My volume controls are broke, and my headphone jack doesn't seem to play nice.
[22:41] <mhb> manchicken: bug number?
[22:42] <manchicken> Lemme look
[22:42] <jpatrick> Bed time
[22:42] <jpatrick> night
[22:42] <mhb> I wish I had two separate personalities
[22:43] <mhb> goodnight Jucato
[22:43] <mhb> err, jpatrick
[22:43] <Jucato> good night mhb
[22:43] <manchicken> Seems like it's bug #58790
[22:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 58790 in kdemultimedia "kmix: dcop calls to adjust volume should affect user-set master channel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/58790
[22:43]  * Jucato will sleep after nixternal's Q&A
[22:43] <jpatrick> lol
[22:43] <mhb> Jucato: I'm not going to sleep yet, jpatrick is :o)
[22:43] <Jucato> oh sorry
[22:43] <Jucato> jpatrick: good
[22:43] <Jucato> night...
[22:43] <mhb> my bad
[22:43] <manchicken> I don't know if that's actually the cause (kmix or dcop or whatnot), but I do know that it used to work like a champ, but something that happened in the patches I applied on Thursday last week killed it.
[22:44] <manchicken> And my headphone jack doesn't work anymore either.
[22:44] <mhb> if I invested more time in artwork, nobody would do the stuff I planned coding ... if I coded more, nobody's going to do anything about artwork
[22:44] <manchicken> I think it's all a mixer issue though.
[22:46] <mhb> manchicken: so it was your work?
[22:46] <manchicken> No, sorry, s/patches/updates/
[22:46] <manchicken> All apt updates
[22:46] <Jucato> mhb: I think there were some problems w/ kmilo not going up/beyon 10% or something?
[22:47] <mhb> oh yes
[22:47] <manchicken> Yeah, my kmilo is going up to 11% and won't go higher.
[22:47] <Jucato> darn! missed by 1%
[22:47] <mhb> I wish I could reproduce that
[22:47] <manchicken> mhb: Me too :)
[22:47] <nosrednaekim> was doing that here until I bypassed kmilo
[22:48] <manchicken> Does kmilo do anything with the headphone jack?  I'm wondering if that is a related or separate problem.
[22:54] <begert> hey all
[22:55] <nosrednaekim> hey begert
[22:55] <ryanakca> manchicken: I can confirm the 11% problem
[23:11] <Jucato> nixternal: I'll poke you in an hour or so.. gotta catch a quick snooze
[23:11] <nixternal> roger, thanks for the help!
[23:11] <Jucato> I helped? O.o
[23:11] <Jucato> oh yeah, I made noise :D
[23:13] <nixternal> haha
[23:13]  * Jucato has serious matters for nixternal later
[23:14] <Tm_T> Jucato: you meet in the alley, no arms other than pistol?
[23:15] <nosrednaekim> a pistol isn't going to do you much good without arms...
[23:15]  * Jucato has pistol for arms
[23:18] <Tm_T> nosrednaekim: arm as synonym to weapon
[23:18] <nosrednaekim> Tm_T: yeah... I know ;)
[23:18] <Tm_T> :(
[23:23] <manchicken> This karm integration into kontact thing is just so nifty.
[23:24] <nixternal> manchicken: karm is cool..I have never in my life looked at it before
[23:24] <Tm_T> manchicken: K-arm? no not even that, only pistols
[23:24] <manchicken> Well I'm going to be full-time indy consultant starting next week.
[23:25] <manchicken> karm looks like it's going to go a long way towards helping me bill.
[23:26] <manchicken> I'm actually going to take my indy consulting thing and try to grow it into a super-nifty company.  My dad and I have been talking about starting our own SAAS-type company, and this is gonna be the first step in that.
[23:30] <nosrednaekim> what is indy consulting..
[23:31] <Tm_T> independent?
[23:34] <manchicken> Yeah
[23:37] <nixternal> I can offer some independent help