[00:00] <StevenHarperUK_> Yeh you need MOTU's to Advocate it, then it gets added to Hardy.....
[00:00] <pwnguin> who do they advocate to?
[00:01] <StevenHarperUK_> Its part of the MOTU system
[00:01] <StevenHarperUK_> Check that link I sent
[00:01] <StevenHarperUK_> On the REVu system
[00:02] <StevenHarperUK_> They check the package, then if they think it should be on Hardy they mark it, after you get (i think its 2) enough it gets OK'd to be on Hardy...
[00:02] <StevenHarperUK_> I think, if I read all the Docs right
[00:02] <pwnguin> advocate sounds like the wrong word there. more like approve
[00:02] <StevenHarperUK_> Yeh I know, its the wording on the REVU site
[00:03] <StevenHarperUK_> I didn't choose it
[00:17] <proppy> anyone has a good sample of a web package ?
[00:20] <proppy> that handle the stuff with apache the debian way
[00:20] <proppy> phpmyadmin ?
[00:20] <martoss> good night everybody.
[00:20] <martoss> cu
[00:25] <zul> evening
[00:25] <crimsun> 'lo zul, how's the baby?
[00:25] <zul> crimsun: pretty good just had to change a diaper thanks for asking
[00:25] <crimsun> cool :-)
[00:27] <bddebian> Damn Debian can be a PITA :-(
[00:27] <bddebian> Heya zul, crimsun
[00:31] <crimsun> heya bddebian
[00:33] <zul> hi barry
[00:48] <soren> crimsun: Hey! Long time no see!
[00:49] <crimsun> soren: heya, how are things?
[00:49] <soren> crimsun: Things are great! Are you back or just stopping by?
[00:50] <crimsun> soren: the latter
[00:51] <soren> crimsun: Ok. How's the not-so-new-anymore job?
[00:51] <crimsun> soren: hectic, unfortunately
[00:51] <crimsun> on the upside, I get to do neat things with Ubuntu.
[00:51] <soren> Oh, really?
[00:52] <crimsun> yeah.  It's nice to finally "be on the other end" of sorts. :-)
[00:52] <soren> I forget.. Who are you working for?
[00:52] <crimsun> Everyone who contributes to Ubuntu deserves a great round of applause.
[00:53] <crimsun> soren: the US gov't
[00:53] <soren> And they use Ubuntu? Wicked.
[00:53] <crimsun> yep. :-)
[00:55] <ajmitch> hello soren, crimsun
[00:55] <crimsun> 'lo ajmitch
[00:55] <soren> Hey, ajmitch.
[00:55] <ajmitch> soren: how goes UDS preparations? :)
[00:55] <soren> crimsun: You coming down to Boston?
[00:56] <crimsun> soren: I'll be there Sunday & Monday, but I have to return to work Monday night.
[00:56] <soren> ajmitch: I've been a bit tied up since release, actually, so I'm lagging a bit.
[00:56] <zul> ajmitch, that reminds me
[00:56] <soren> crimsun: Cool, we'll finally meet!
[00:56] <ajmitch> zul: it does?
[00:56] <zul> i have to write the XenInHardy thingy
[00:56] <ajmitch> yes, you do
[00:58] <soren> ajmitch: I've got 14 hours of travel time, 9 hours of battery, vim, and a copy of the relevant specs. I should be able to get a bit done :)
[00:58] <ajmitch> soren: only 14 hours? that's quite short
[00:59] <ajmitch> soren: I look forward to hearing of great thigns from the server team :)
[00:59] <zul> soren: and those quality in flight movies
[01:00] <soren> ajmitch: Yeah, I think it's 14 hours. Three flights and about an hour and a half of waiting each time.
[01:00] <soren> zul: Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
[01:00] <zul> soren: a bit, i never seen a good movie on a airplane
[01:01] <soren> zul: I've only traveled far enough to have in flight movies once, and that was with Singapore Airlines, which is awesome.
[01:01] <ajmitch> zul: air nz isn't too bad
[01:01] <zul> soren: BA had some pretty good movies when I was a kid
[01:01] <ajmitch> but that's because we're a long way from anywhere, so movies are required
[01:02] <zul> true, they dont play peter jackson movies all the time? :)
[01:02] <ajmitch> mmm, brain dead ;)
[01:03] <soren> Meet the feebles ftw!
[01:03] <ajmitch> hehe
[01:04] <zul> brain dead was freaking hilarious
[01:05] <Solarion> heh.  Up to about an hour or half hour ago, the gibbon was creeping up in the stats.  Now, suddenly, the gibbon is giving the werewolf quite a drubbing.  :)
[01:06] <soren> I still have no clue how he got that old guy to pay for the LoTR series. I can only imagine it must have beeen something like: "Hi, I'm Peter Jackson. I want you to pay a zillion dollars so that I can make a film out of the LoTR series." "Mmmmmkay... What have you done before?" "Oh, I've got a tape right here! <puts on a potpourri of Meet the feebles, Braindead, and Bad Taste>" "Oh, make it stop, i'll give you anything you want!"
[01:06] <soren> ...or thereabouts.
[01:07] <zul> didnt he do that movie before lotr to prove that he can do a good job to the executive producers?
[01:07] <ajmitch> he did manage a couple of serious films beforehand
[01:07] <ajmitch> like the frighteners
[01:08] <soren> This might be a stupid question, but what does the werewolf represent in the gibbon vs. werewolf thing?
[01:09] <TheMuso> Is Debian using a tmpfs mounted /var/run yet?
[01:09] <soren> An "actual" werewolf or some other distro?
[01:09] <Solarion> soren: Fedora 8
[01:09] <bmk789> someone should make a screencast on packaging with pbuilder
[01:10] <soren> Solarion: How so?
[01:11] <soren> Oh. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2007-October/msg05258.html
[01:20] <soren> goodnight everyone!
[01:20] <crimsun> 'night soren
[01:21] <soren> 'night, crimsun. See you Sunday!
[01:27] <ajmitch> night soren
[02:23] <zul> imbrandon: can you send me the url again
[02:27] <mdomsch> http://domsch.com/pictures/summer_2007/large/02-00070.html
[02:27] <mdomsch> view of London from the Canonical office tower
[02:28] <zul> mdomsch, cool
[02:32] <imbrandon> zul http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/zul.patch
[02:32] <imbrandon> that one? ^
[02:32] <zul> that would be the one
[02:33] <imbrandon> kk
[02:42] <blueyed> Can someone decide if bug 149641 is worth a SRU and accept the Gutsy task in this case please. A patch for -proposed is attached already.
[02:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149641 in logcheck "logcheck fails when auth.log.1.gz missing" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149641
[02:42]  * persia registers a gutsy task
[02:42] <persia> blueyed: Does this also affect any previous release?
[02:43] <blueyed> Thanks, persia. I'm not sure, I'll check this tomorrow, ok?
[02:43] <persia> (especially Dapper: I don't think we get new installs for Edgy or Feisty these days)
[02:43] <persia> blueyed: OK.  Dapper is most important.
[02:43] <blueyed> Please create a Dapper task and assign it to me.
[02:44] <crimsun> I'm almost in favour of not touching Dapper at this point
[02:44] <persia> blueyed: I don't want to create a task unless we know it is required.
[02:45] <persia> crimsun: Why?  I suspect we'll have more than a few things we'll need to patch for upgrades to Hardy anyway...
[02:46] <persia> blueyed: My apologies: it's main.  I can't approve the nomination :(
[02:46] <imbrandon> crimsun, i'm kinda of the same mind except to make LTS to LTS upgrades
[02:46] <santiago-ve> Hello!
[02:46] <crimsun> persia: there's a bit of noise in that report [I'm not in a position to read it carefully currently], so it's not immediately obvious what the simplest correct fix is .
[02:48] <blueyed> crimsun: just look at the attached patch.
[02:48] <blueyed> It's taken from debian.
[02:48] <crimsun> blueyed: yes, I can easily ACK that.  I'm referring to the noise in the Ubuntu bug report.
[02:49] <blueyed> crimsun, persia: dapper does not seem to be affected.
[02:49] <persia> blueyed: Thanks for checking.
[02:49] <blueyed> (logcheck-1.2.42ubuntu1)
[02:49] <crimsun> blueyed: ok
[02:50]  * blueyed => bed
[02:51] <persia> crimsun: I see your point.  Looking through the bug, there may be other issues, and checking for the existence of the file may not be a complete solution.
[03:08] <bddebian> Well apparently trying to go through Debian for new upstreams is a pointless excercise
[03:13] <ScottK> bddebian: Painful, but not necessarily pointless.  Keep picking on pkern and see how far you get.
[03:14] <ajmitch> ScottK: bddebian's problem was that ari was involved in the discussion
[03:14] <bddebian> ScottK: Well I would argue pointless.  pkern is 1 man.
[03:14] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:14] <ScottK> Yeah, but that one man can upload stuff.
[03:14] <bddebian> Not without getting shot ;-)
[03:15] <ScottK> The trick is low profile.  Get stuff uploaded, but don't get noticed.
[03:16] <persia> bddebian: Don't let either IRC or any specific individual maintainer bother you.  Just hit the people who are chasing the package directly.
[03:16] <bddebian> persia: I have e-mailed the maintainers directly
[03:16] <persia> bddebian: Ah.  My condolences then.
[03:17] <bddebian> To a degree I understand their point but the "I'd rather let the package rot than accept work from a no-nothing MOTU" attitude is just irritating
[03:19] <ScottK> I guess I've been lucky then.
[03:21] <persia> bddebian: Umm..  That's actively anti-useful behaviour on the part of the maintainer.  Is it logged somewhere public?  There are plenty of interested parties who disagree.
[03:22] <bddebian> persia: I'm not looking to start, trouble I was just trying to get some new upstreams in to debian, hence Ubuntu
[03:24] <proppy> bddebian: which package are you talking about ?
[03:24] <proppy> (just curiosity)
[03:24] <persia> bddebian: I don't mean to encourage trouble, it's just that in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForDebianDevelopers, we ask Debian Developers with issues with Ubuntu member behaviour to please raise them to our governance structures.  Debian's parallel processes are not as transparent, but they do exist.
[03:26] <bddebian> proppy: I was just working through the upgrade bugs on LP.  pybliographer, libdc0/valknut, etc
[03:27] <slangasek> bddebian: new upstream version of what?
[03:27]  * ScottK is starting to suspect that slangasek highlights on debian.
[03:27] <slangasek> I could do :)
[03:28] <slangasek> but it was just within reach of two screens'-worth of scrollback in this case :)
[03:29]  * slangasek reads down. aha, package list. :)
[03:29] <bddebian> slangasek: as I just said, in this case, pybliographer, libdc0/valknut, and I was starting to consider pgadmin3
[03:29] <slangasek> hmm, pybliographer; IIRC you're likely to have an uphill push there because of the maintainer's low activity level more than anything
[03:29] <tonyyarusso> Anybody heard of losing power management settings for "on battery" in 7.10 after today's updates?  As in, the tab is completely gone, and the user can only set a profile for AC?
[03:30] <slangasek> libdc0/valknut are package names I recognize and associate with "release management pain"... :)
[03:30] <slangasek> bddebian: anyway, none of those seem to be anything I can be much direct help with :/
[03:31] <bddebian> slangasek: Thanks but I didn't expect that you could.  I just tire of the Ubuntu doesn't give shit but when I try, I get shit.  It's getting a little old.
[03:33] <persia> bddebian: It depends on individuals.  If a specific person in Debian doesn't want to cooperate, consider just uploading to Ubuntu.  If the maintainer is willing to cooperate, it's heaps easier to work together.  Don't paint all of Debian with the tar brush.
[03:34] <bddebian> Aye fair enough and I'm not targetting the maintainers because I haven't gotten anything back from them yet
[03:38]  * TheMuso is going to try to push changes in our packages to Debian this cycle, rather than just merge the package.
[03:38] <slangasek> bddebian: no matter what improvements might be made in community relations between Debian and Ubuntu, the reality is that there's always going to be some level of tension over individual package maintainership; that exists /within/ Debian too, it just tends to be cast differently when some of the people are "associated" with Ubuntu
[03:39] <slangasek> bddebian: so I think it's important to some degree to recognize that this tension will exist and accept it
[03:39] <slangasek> TheMuso: hurray! :)
[03:39]  * persia encourages and supports TheMuso
[03:39] <bddebian> TheMuso: That is what I am attempting to do
[03:40] <bddebian> slangasek: Understood but what do I do?  not do the work?  Jump Debian for Ubuntu in new upstream versions?  I'm not going to do the work only for it to get ignored, that's pointless.
[03:41] <persia> bddebian: If there's a long delay, or resistance, I'd recommend uploading -0ubuntu1, and adding a BTS entry describing any specific issues you resolved when merging the new upstream.
[03:42] <bddebian> persia: Aye, but how long is long? ;-)
[03:44] <persia> bddebian: I usually give it a week or so for most things.  If it's blocking me in another way, I might not wait for "long", but I'll be sure to file a sync request as soon as I can.
[03:45] <bddebian> But if the tarballs don't match we can't sync until the next new version :-)
[03:46] <persia> bddebian: Well, only if it needs repacking: upstream tarballs should all be the same.  That's a special, and unfortunate case.  Perhaps a version number like 2.7.14.really.2.8.0-0ubuntu1?  It depends on what you expect to happen next.
[03:47] <bddebian> I expect that I should probably stop working on all this crap :-)
[03:48] <ajmitch> 2.8.0~reallynotdebian-0ubuntu1
[03:49] <persia> Ah.  Right.  ~  Perhaps 2.8.0~ubuntu-0ubuntu1, just to not point specifically at Debian.
[03:50] <ajmitch> 2.8.0~arimademedoit-0ubuntu1
[03:50]  * imbrandon returns
[03:50] <bddebian> ajmitch: hahaha
[03:52] <bddebian> 2.8.0~idiotmotuontheloose-0ubuntu1
[03:52] <persia> bddebian: There you go.  You can safely upload that, and nobody should complain :)
[04:15] <slangasek> bddebian: you do whatever you think is best, just like everyone else? :)  It's always worth making the effort to let the Debian maintainer know about your updated packages, even if they don't accept them or act on them in a suitable timeframe.
[04:15] <proppy> Is it ok to work in a hardy chroot now ?
[04:16] <ajmitch> poor mjg59, trying to explain power management to people :)
[04:16] <proppy> (for hardy package)
[04:16] <ajmitch> proppy: sure, it won't be much different from gutsy yet
[04:16] <slangasek> bddebian: you can't control whether Debian accepts the update, after all, but that's IMHO not a reason not to try, or a reason to keep Ubuntu from having the new version
[04:16]  * TheMuso chuckles at the goings on in -devel.
[04:16] <proppy> ajmitch: ok, cause I heard the toolchain was broken
[04:17] <proppy> earlier
[04:17] <ajmitch> oh it could be, but that's why you have fun in a chroot
[04:17] <proppy> ajmitch: by work I mean do packaging stuff
[04:17] <proppy> lets debootstrap !
[04:18] <proppy> my fist hardy vserver :)
[04:18] <TheMuso> proppy: May be safer to make a gutsy chroot, and dist-upgrade.
[04:18] <TheMuso> But debootstrap could work.
[04:19] <proppy> TheMuso: thanks for the hint
[04:21] <proppy> is there any work ongoing on a vserver enable kernel package ?
[04:21] <proppy> (for ubuntu)
[04:21]  * ajmitch needs to clear some space on /home before he can start doing much
[04:23] <TheMuso> Whats vserver?
[04:23] <jdong> TheMuso: partitioning virtualizer for Linux
[04:23] <jdong> TheMuso: a la BSD Jails
[04:23] <jdong> by partitioning, I mean splitting your execution environment into indivudual independent cells
[04:24] <jdong> not disk partitioning :)
[04:24] <imbrandon> hrm
[04:25] <imbrandon> i think i have another full system here , i might try to setup a buildd that i can localy dput to, anyone ever tried it ?
[04:25] <imbrandon> wanna-build and ummm what else ?
[04:26] <imbrandon> lol
[04:26] <TheMuso> jdong: ah ok.
[04:27] <proppy> TheMuso: basicly it adds process management to chroot
[04:27] <proppy> TheMuso: so you can stop and start a chroot and all the process inside it
[04:28] <TheMuso> .
[04:28] <jdong> fifo's cannot be read by more than one "receiver", right?
[04:28] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[04:28] <TheMuso> jdong: Hense the name.
[04:28] <jdong> I'm looking for a Rube Goldberg libnotify ping-queue...
[04:28] <TheMuso> jdong: But I could be wrong.
[04:28] <jdong> UNIX domain sockets could manage multiple connections right?
[04:29] <jdong> and use filesystem permissions?
[04:29] <TheMuso> I think so.
[04:30] <jdong> ok, I'll have to play with that this weekend then :)
[04:30] <jdong> the ultimate multiplexing kerberos-authenticated IRC ping multicaster over TCP!
[04:30] <jdong> rofl
[04:31] <ajmitch> !jdong
 jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
[04:32] <bddebian> hehe
[04:32] <TheMuso> lol
[04:33] <jdong> :)
[04:41] <imbrandon> ajmitch, have a laugh http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=590576
[04:42] <imbrandon> err hAve A lAugh
[04:44] <jdong> imbrandon: ROFL
[04:44] <jdong> that is a hilarious reason why he can't write a :D
[04:45] <ajmitch> I almost feel sorry for him
[04:45]  * jdong posted a reply with a workaround for posterity
[05:01] <RAOF> imbrandon: If you manage to set that up, please document it on the wiki :)
[05:02] <imbrandon> RAOF, yea i was thinking that too
[05:03] <imbrandon> i'm throwing togather the parts now to see if i can get an "extra" pc to boot
[05:03] <RAOF> Seveas was (is?) writing a buildd addition to falcon at one point.  I was kinda waiting for that.
[05:03] <imbrandon> i only have a 8gb drive to toss at it , but it might work to document the process
[05:03] <imbrandon> RAOF, yea, it was at my request ;)
[05:03] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:03] <RAOF> That sounds enough for a buildd, I think.
[05:04] <RAOF> My schroots only have ~... 5 gb?  I think.
[05:04] <persia> imbrandon: Dktrkranz was also working on debomatic, which is designed as a simple local/remote pbuilder-driven buildd.  From what I've seen, it's a little easier to use, at a cost of robustness and flexibility
[05:04] <imbrandon> well if i keep the os small yea
[05:04] <imbrandon> and only build for one release
[05:04] <imbrandon> persia, yea this is more to learn than to actualy use
[05:05] <imbrandon> otherwise i would probably be using falcon 2.x
[05:05] <imbrandon> :)
[05:05] <persia> imbrandon: In that case, wanna-build is probably the way to go :)
[05:05] <ajmitch> hello mr StevenK
[05:06]  * StevenK waves
[05:06] <ajmitch> so what country are you in now?
[05:06] <StevenK> Still .au
[05:06] <imbrandon> StevenK, you makin uds ?
[05:06] <StevenK> imbrandon: I fly out tomorrow
[05:06] <imbrandon> cool
[05:07] <ajmitch> fun
[05:07] <ajmitch> the countless hours of being trapped in the seat
[05:07] <StevenK> My phone line at home has been killed, so ENODSL
[05:07] <imbrandon> as it looks right now i probably wont make it ( yet again ) , i started gathering $$ too late
[05:07] <ajmitch> painful
[05:07] <imbrandon> ouch
[05:07] <ajmitch> imbrandon: find a floor to crash on :)
[05:08] <imbrandon> ajmitch, thats still a possibilty
[05:08] <StevenK> I wanted them to fix it by close of business today, but they keep telling me tomorrow. :-(
[05:08] <ajmitch> doesn't look likely that I'll be there, somehow
[05:08] <imbrandon> StevenK, so how are you online ?
[05:08] <StevenK> imbrandon: Cup-and-string? :-P
[05:08] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:08] <RAOF> Ah, _Telstra_
[05:09] <imbrandon> packet-over-pigon
[05:09] <StevenK> Yes.
[05:09] <StevenK> I will Get Them
[05:09] <persia> StevenK: You might try carrier pigeos.  Latency is a bit higher, but they're higher-bandwidth than cup & string.
[05:09] <ajmitch> persia: but that's what telstra use
[05:09] <imbrandon> lol
[05:09] <StevenK> (I'm at uni, using a web based IRC client)
[05:09] <persia> ajmitch: Ah.  That explains everything.
[05:10] <imbrandon> ouch, want a shell on my server for irssi ?
[05:10] <imbrandon> StevenK, ^
[05:10] <StevenK> You know, the only way out of this damned network is by ssh'ing to a .debian.org machine on port 443
[05:11] <imbrandon> hahahah painfull
[05:11] <imbrandon> i could probably put sshd on 443 also for a bit
[05:11] <imbrandon> it does nothing but run the db for ubuntuwire.com atm
[05:12] <StevenK> Personally, I'd prefer my connection at home to work. :-)
[05:12] <imbrandon> ( gentoo box ) /me ducks
[05:12] <StevenK> I miss my e-mail.
[05:12] <imbrandon> okie, well offer stands if you need it, lemme know
[05:12] <StevenK> Sure, thanks.
[05:12] <lifeless> StevenK: don't you have a job now ?
[05:13] <StevenK> lifeless: Cut due to a fault, not non-payment
[05:13] <lifeless> :>
[05:17] <TheMuso> StevenK: Ouch, that is painful.
[05:24] <proppy>            Launchpad is offline for scheduled maintenance.           We should be back soon.
[05:24] <proppy> :((((
[05:24] <persia> That explains it.  Thanks for the update.
[05:26] <StevenK> Typical. I claw my way back onto the Internet, and Launchpad is offline.
[05:27] <TheMuso> lol
[05:27] <TheMuso> I was only using it 10 minutes ago.
[05:29] <proppy> I was posting a comment
[05:29] <proppy> it's very annoying
[05:30] <proppy> I guess I will post it using that old technology called mail instead :)
[05:39] <imbrandon> ugh time to dig up some diffrent hardware. that was only a p100
[05:41] <ajmitch> now they were considered fast not so long ago
[05:41] <imbrandon> yea but that might be a bit painfull for a buildd
[05:41] <TheMuso> Ouch.
[05:42] <imbrandon> if i take those db's off that vps and put them directly on my webserver i can reinstall with ubuntu 7.04 and dist-upgrade from there in minutes
[05:42] <imbrandon> i think i might do that
[05:42] <imbrandon> the vps will work well enough
[05:43] <imbrandon> and ubuntu 7.04 is a premade image so reinstall will only take 5 minutes
[05:43] <imbrandon> for the provider
[05:43] <imbrandon> and considering the site only gets 4k hits a day between all the domains i doubt the seperate db server is doing me any good
[05:44]  * imbrandon googles wanna-build a bit
[06:03] <pwnguin> imbrandon: what about trying out that Sugar/olpc stuff on older hardware ;0
[06:03] <imbrandon> i could, after the buildd hehe
[06:03] <imbrandon> is it avail for general use ?
[06:08] <Amaranth> so, uh, i can push stuff to hardy now? :)
[06:09] <imbrandon> yea
[06:09] <TheMuso> Amaranth: Yes.
[06:09] <Amaranth> woohoo
[06:09] <Amaranth> awn 0.2 :)
[06:10] <Amaranth> oh, but launchpad is offline for the 1.1.10 upgrade
[06:10] <StevenK> Oh, I'd forgotten about that.
[06:11] <persia> LP ought to accept uploads into some secret internal location during the upgrade, for processing once it is complete.
[06:22] <StevenK> persia: I was able to connect to upload.u.c anonymously.
[06:22] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: has #ubuntu-midwest become obsolete by #ubuntu-us and state channels?
[06:22]  * persia wonders why Amaranth has difficulties
[06:23] <Amaranth> i didn't try
[06:23] <StevenK> I wonder how many more states need LoCo teams.
[06:23] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, yes
[06:23] <ajmitch> #ubuntu-nz is still alive, thankfully
[06:23] <StevenK> If ubuntu-ma doesn't exist, I daresay it will come into being during UDS.
[06:23]  * imbrandon resides in #ubuntu-missouri
[06:24] <imbrandon> heh
[06:24] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: 'k.  That frees up one of my auto-join slots then :)
[06:24] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, are you here in the midwest ?
[06:24] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: I'm the team contact for MN now.
[06:24] <imbrandon> ahh cool
[06:25] <StevenK> Sigh.
[06:25] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: -us-ma is very much alive.
[06:25] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: They're the ones who printed up the aluminum case badges a few weeks ago
[06:26] <StevenK> "But Grandpa, there's only 49 stars on your flag." 'It'll be a cold day in hell before I recognize Missouri'
[06:26] <imbrandon> hahahaha
[06:26] <imbrandon> where is that from ?
[06:26] <StevenK> The Simpsons. :-)
[06:26] <tonyyarusso> rofl
[06:26] <imbrandon> lol
[06:26] <imbrandon> thats classic
[06:27] <imbrandon> hrm how outdated / wrong does this look ? http://julien.danjou.info/buildd.html
[06:27] <imbrandon> you debian guys , yes ajmitch thats you
[06:27]  * tonyyarusso prefers to pretend that we decided not to bother having a Civil War, and are only 33 states at most
[06:28] <StevenK> With or without slavery?
[06:28] <persia> imbrandon: sbuild & schroot play together better now, but it looks reasonably close
[06:28] <tonyyarusso> Without, obviously.  What that strange country to the south has I don't know.
[06:28] <imbrandon> my wife wants to move to california
[06:28] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: Of course, we all know the war wasn't about slavery in the first place.
[06:28] <StevenK> Oh?
[06:28] <persia> tonyyarusso: Foreign trade :)
[06:28] <imbrandon> huh?
[06:29] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: Purely economic - the slave thing was brought up as an issue as they got into it, and made good politics, ultimately.
[06:29]  * imbrandon missed that in history class, mist have been "peekin and pokin" on my c64
[06:30] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: It really came down to at the time the south had all of the economic power, being the cotton producer, but the north needed their product for the one industry they did have going for them (textiles)
[06:30] <tonyyarusso> oh, and tobacco producer, can't forget that
[06:31] <nxvl> hi all!
[06:31] <persia> Umm..  rather one group was economically powerful in materials & commodities, and those other in industry.  The industrial group enforced domestic trade in preference to foreign trade.
[06:31] <tonyyarusso> We do this a lot actually - using the human rights issue as justification after the fact, even if it had little to no influence on the decision to go to war in the first place (See WWII for another example)
[06:32] <tonyyarusso> persia: right - b/c otherwise the materials would go to the British, and New England's mills would be unnecessary to the world market
[06:32] <imbrandon> ahh nice new fresh 7.10 on a "model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU          4400  @ 2.00GHz" vps server , time to try out this buildd thing
[06:32] <persia> tonyyarusso: Yes, but not only textile mills.  Also stoneworking, steel mills, etc.
[06:39] <imbrandon> is wanna-build part of sbuild ?
[06:39] <RAOF> Not as far as I'm aware.
[06:40] <StevenK> Ah ha, I found the full quote.
[06:40] <StevenK> Marge: Grandpa, this flag only has 49 stars on it
[06:40] <StevenK> Grandpa: I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missourah!
[06:40] <imbrandon> StevenK, heh
[06:41] <persia> imbrandon: You need to pull wanna-build and buildd from svn
[06:41] <tonyyarusso> Yeah really - they can't even say their own state's name
[06:41] <imbrandon> hrm missery
[06:41] <imbrandon> persia, ahh i see, i figured it would be packaged by now
[06:42] <persia> imbrandon: There's just not lots of incentive.  It's not the cleanest way to run a small repo or build farm, and nobody else has as many packages as Debian :)
[06:42] <persia> (same sort of reason everyone doesn't just run DAK)
[06:45] <StevenK> I'm over this thing now.
[06:45] <imbrandon> sudo apt-get install debhelper build-essential devscripts patchutils dpatch bzr subversion dh-make cvs
[06:45] <imbrandon> err
[06:45] <imbrandon> i hate clean installs lol, too much to setup
[06:45] <StevenK> Unable to find package: cvs
[06:46] <lifeless> StevenK: woo!
[06:46] <StevenK> :-P
[06:46] <lifeless> StevenK: and let me say further, woo!
[06:46] <lifeless> this is a major step forward
[06:46] <lifeless> now, please nuke svn, git, tla, hg, ...
[06:46] <TheMuso> lol
[06:46] <StevenK> Well, it appears my work is done, I've made lifeless happy for about an hour
[06:47] <imbrandon> heh
[06:47] <StevenK> tla, I agree with you, but only if we can nuke Tom Lord, too.
[06:47] <imbrandon> honestly i really wish someone would add the "svn" meta package to subversion though
[06:47] <imbrandon> heh
[06:47] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Why?
[06:48] <imbrandon> so i can apt-get install svn like bzr and cvs and git
[06:48] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Lazy!
[06:48] <persia> imbrandon: How often do you find yourself needing to install subversion?  It's only 7 extra characters.
[06:48] <imbrandon> or i could just say fsk it and make an imbrandon.deb meta package how many times i setup a new system it would be worth it
[06:49] <imbrandon> persia, about once a week, but it never fails i type svn first and get the package not found error
[06:49] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Just write a script.
[06:49] <persia> imbrandon: Ah.  If it's that often, submit a patch to make "subversion" Provides: svn.
[06:50] <imbrandon> TheMuso, then i would have to install the script prior to installing svn , and by then i've rembered to type it all out
[06:51] <TheMuso> imbrandon: I have made a script that installs all the packages I use on a system. I simply run that script on a new install, and bam, I'm ready to go.
[06:52] <imbrandon> ahhh yea
[06:52] <imbrandon> might not be a bad idea
[06:53]  * persia makes vague noises about preseeding and dget --set-selections
[06:53] <persia> Umm..  s/dget/dpkg/
[06:53] <StevenK> How vague?
[06:53] <StevenK> :-P
[06:53] <imbrandon> well most of my "reinstalls" are actualy reimages i have no control over the initial image
[06:54] <imbrandon> so preseeding wont work
[06:54] <persia> StevenK: Think audio tracks of adults speaking in animated Peanuts
[06:54] <imbrandon> lol
[06:54] <StevenK> I never saw that.
[06:55] <persia> StevenK: Ah.  It's best transliterated as mwrmmm-mhhwhrrr-mhwmm...
[06:56] <StevenK> Hah
[06:58] <StevenK> imbrandon: The episode in question with that quote is "Homer Badman" in season six.
[06:58]  * StevenK will be watching it when he gets home.
[06:58] <imbrandon> i'll have to grab that ;)
[07:03] <imbrandon> anyone made a hardy debootstrap script yet ?
[07:04] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Used gutsy and dist-upgraded.
[07:04] <lucas> what's the status of the hardy repositories?
[07:04] <lucas> can I uplod my reportbug changes to it? ;)
[07:05] <StevenK> imbrandon: Symlink hardy to gutsy
[07:05] <persia> lucas: Go for it.
[07:05] <imbrandon> StevenK, i did
[07:05] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:05] <lucas> ok, thank you
[07:05]  * persia wonders if anyone is going to send an annoucement to ubuntu-devel-announce@
[07:07] <mneptok> wah wuh wa wuh wah wuh, wuh wah wuh wuh.
[07:07] <persia> mneptok: Thank you sir.  I was wondering.
[07:08]  * mneptok is never seen from the waist up
[07:08] <imbrandon> ouch, bad thoughts bad thoughts
[07:08] <mneptok> i'm *all pelvis*, behbeh
[07:08]  * mneptok woggles a bulge at imbrandon 
[07:09] <imbrandon> heh
[07:09] <lifeless> mneptok: bit hard to walk then
[07:10] <TheMuso> heh
[07:10] <TheMuso> I think its assumed that those who are involved with development know where to check.
[07:10] <mneptok> oh god. inside voice ...
[07:10] <mneptok> damn you, lifeless
[07:11] <lifeless> :>
[07:11] <imbrandon> haha
[07:12] <persia> TheMuso: Perhaps.  There was an annoucement for the last couple cycles, with timing similar to the actual timing of the hardy archive open.
[07:14]  * persia points at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000285.html
[07:16] <persia> Hmm.  Never mind.  Apparently that is only ever done for the second release of the year (Hoary, Edgy, Gutsy).  My apologies for my misunderstanding of the tradition.
[07:19] <Burgundavia> persia: what is done for the 2nd release?
[07:20] <persia> Burgundavia: No announcement.
[07:20] <Burgundavia> of hardy opening?
[07:20] <persia> (Plus, I missed before: it's Warty, Breezy, Edgy, Gutsy)
[07:20] <persia> Burgundavia: Yes.
[07:20] <imbrandon> persia, i think its more of none does it the second time
[07:20] <imbrandon> lol
[07:20] <Burgundavia> hmm, that is certainly a conincidence
[07:21] <persia> imbrandon: That may be the reason the tradition began, but at this point, perhaps there are tribal superstitions.  One must always avoid the Taboo.
[07:21] <imbrandon> :P
[07:23] <imbrandon> haha debootstrap is a bit broke in hardy still ( must be from sync )
[07:23] <imbrandon> # put any local/close mirrors at the top of the file
[07:23] <imbrandon> deb     http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy main contrib
[07:23] <imbrandon> deb     http://incoming.debian.org/debian hardy main contrib
[07:23] <imbrandon> deb-src http://incoming.debian.org/debian hardy main contrib
[07:23] <imbrandon> is its apt-sources.list
[07:23] <persia> s/contrib/universe/ no?
[07:23] <Burgundavia> hmm
[07:23] <Burgundavia> didn't know that debian had a release called hardy
[07:24] <imbrandon> it dosent
[07:24] <persia> Has someone already uploaded the devscripts update to default to hardy?
[07:25] <imbrandon> no i used a gutsy script
[07:26] <nixternal> wasabi
[07:58] <imbrandon> hrm ok i have it built going by that howto ( changed for hardy )
[07:58] <imbrandon> but umm
[08:00] <StevenK> imbrandon: Dealing with the fun that is sbuild and schroot?
[08:01] <imbrandon> well i have never used it before , not even sure if its working
[08:01] <imbrandon> lol
[08:01] <imbrandon> first problem the buildd daemon dosent seem to be running
[08:01] <imbrandon> gotta fix that first
[08:01] <imbrandon> i guess
[08:01] <imbrandon> and what should `sbuild -D zsh_4.3.2-20` return ?
[08:01] <imbrandon> if its working
[08:02] <StevenK> sbuild should take a .dsc as an argument.
[08:02] <StevenK> sbuild -d hardy zsh_4.3.2-20.dsc
[08:02] <imbrandon> ahh lemme try that
[08:02] <persia> imbrandon: Ah.  Right.  You'll have to use something like sbuild -d hardy -D zsh_4.3.2-20.  "unstable" is the annoyingly hardcoded dfault.
[08:03] <imbrandon> yea i tryed to change all the unstables to hardy
[08:03] <imbrandon> it was broke all over
[08:03] <TheMuso> Don't forget -A for arch all packages.
[08:03] <persia> imbrandon: In the code?  -d is lots easier
[08:03] <imbrandon> even to get it to run
[08:03] <imbrandon> it kept looking for unstable
[08:03] <persia> TheMuso: Isn't -A only required for ARCH != i386 ?
[08:03]  * persia thinks this is a pentium 100
[08:04] <imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ ps ax|grep build
[08:04] <imbrandon> 28320 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/bin/buildd
[08:04] <imbrandon> ok thats working
[08:04] <TheMuso> persia: No. You need -A for any arch independant packages, such as doc packags.
[08:04] <StevenK> -A is required to build arch all packages, regardless if it's i386 or not.
[08:04] <TheMuso> packages
[08:04] <imbrandon> grrr
[08:04] <imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ sbuild -d hardy zsh_4.3.2-20
[08:04] <imbrandon> Bad distribution
[08:05] <persia> Ah.  Cool.  I thought the selection of i386 was a hardcoding in sbuild.  If it's just buildd, then perhaps it's easier to change :)
[08:05] <TheMuso> persia: You may have noticed that only i386 does arch all packages on the buildds.
[08:06] <TheMuso> Which is why things like language packs clog up the i386 cueue.
[08:06] <TheMuso> queue
[08:06] <StevenK> Because the Ubuntu buildds run sbuild with -A on the i386 builders.
[08:06] <persia> TheMuso: Oh.  Very much so.  Sometimes this has interesting results when the packages aren't really arch: all
[08:06] <TheMuso> persia: heh.
[08:06] <TheMuso> StevenK: Exactly.
[08:06] <imbrandon> so will wanna-build know when to pass -A and such ?
[08:07] <persia> imbrandon: Check the source, but I suspect the default will be for i386
[08:07] <Fujitsu> I don't think wanna-build is smart enough to do arch-all.
[08:07] <Fujitsu> Because in Debian arch: all is never autobuilt.
[08:07] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: I'm guessing because the uploader uploads such packages.
[08:08]  * persia thinks that too has interesting results, but at least it's not purely discrimatory against any specific architecture.
[08:08] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yep.
[08:10] <imbrandon> hrm
[08:10] <imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ sbuild -d hardy amarok_1.4.7-0ubuntu3
[08:10] <imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$
[08:11] <imbrandon> now it retuns nothing
[08:11] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You seem to be missing a .dsc.
[08:11]  * persia thinks that a log should be populated somewhere
[08:15] <imbrandon> hrm now it just seems to hang .....
[08:15] <StevenK> I seem to recall stracing sbuild at one point.
[08:15] <TheMuso> imbrandon: How do you have schroot set up?
[08:15] <imbrandon> TheMuso, http://julien.danjou.info/buildd.html
[08:16] <persia> imbrandon: And you did s/sid/hardy/ when creating it, right?
[08:16] <persia> (+ s/unstable/hardy/)
[08:16] <imbrandon> yes
[08:17] <imbrandon> ahh its building
[08:17] <imbrandon> its just doing everything in a log
[08:17]  * imbrandon is dumb
[08:17] <persia> ~buildd/logs/ ?
[08:17] <imbrandon> yea
[08:17] <imbrandon> tail -f -n 500 zsh_4.3.4-14ubuntu2_20071025-0712
[08:17] <imbrandon> err
[08:18] <imbrandon> ok it also looks like it will try to dupload this too ( i changed the dupload.conf ) when its done building
[08:18] <imbrandon> correct ?
[08:19] <persia> imbrandon: It should.  Which repo are you using?
[08:19] <imbrandon> i told it to use "imbrandon" , a fake one pointing to upload.imbrandon.com
[08:20] <imbrandon> just in case , so it wouldent upload to debian/ubuntu
[08:21] <persia> imbrandon: Ah.  I was thinking about software, rather than nomenclature.  Anyway, the point was to make sure that the manner in which buildd duploads is compatible with your repo.  I also don't think it duploads from a manual run: I think you need a buildd initiated run.
[08:21] <imbrandon> ahh right
[08:22] <imbrandon> and i can make the repo compatable, as in i havent set that up yet either, probably will just write a bashscript or use falcon
[08:22] <persia> imbrandon: As long as you're in an educative mood, you could even use DAK :)
[08:23] <imbrandon> heh
[08:23] <TheMuso> IMO you want to use something that does the repo like the official ones are done.
[08:24]  * persia thinks installing Soyuz on a local server may be difficult
[08:25] <imbrandon> TheMuso, falcon 2 can be configed to mimic the official repos
[08:25] <imbrandon> if not its not hard to write a bash script to do it similar to the ones use on kubuntu.org/packages
[08:26] <imbrandon> well "not hard" is figuretive i guess, it dosent SEEM hard and wasent when i had a repo going a year ago with ~100 packages
[08:27] <imbrandon> i'm now wondering how all the key signature and such is done
[08:27] <imbrandon> key sig *checks* on uploads
[08:27] <imbrandon> hrm
[08:28] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Funny you should say that, I actually started writing shell scripts to process .changes files, and throw them into a repo using apt-ftparchive, and put them into an sbuild queue. :p
[08:28] <TheMuso> But if falcon does what I want, then I don't think I'll bother, but I still have them sitting there, if I ever need to dig them out.
[08:28] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:29] <imbrandon> well falcon is based on one uploader iirc , not sure about multi
[08:29] <imbrandon> could always poke Seveas for the specifics though
[08:29] <imbrandon> :)
[08:29] <TheMuso> Well these scripts, once finished, could be adapted for multi, but yeah. Since PPA's are around, I'm not likely to ever make my own repo.
[08:30] <TheMuso> And these scripts aren't finished, and aren't likely to be for a bit.
[08:30] <imbrandon> i still like my own because i can target the same package bult against diffrent $dist
[08:31] <imbrandon> like amarok2 for dapper and hardy ( wont happen , just an example )
[08:31] <StevenK> I make my own scratch repo's for building stuff against things that aren't in the archive yet.
[08:31] <imbrandon> ok wth did sbuild put the deb ?
[08:32] <StevenK> apt-ftparchive FTW
[08:32] <imbrandon> nevermind
[08:32] <imbrandon> lol
[08:32] <StevenK> Usually, .
[08:33] <imbrandon> yea, ./ was /tmp though and i had alredy left
[08:33] <imbrandon> and forgot to ls
[08:33] <persia> TheMuso: The advantage of a local repo is being able to change 15 packages all at once, trace build-deps, etc.  Otherwise you need to bind-mount your results directory, which is slightly less authentic
[08:33] <imbrandon> man long night
[08:33] <persia> Night?  Based on your build log, the sun ought to be up, no?
[08:34] <imbrandon> 233 am, the build is running on a vps a few thousand miles away
[08:34] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah true. Its just doing it in a way that I'm happy with.
[08:34] <persia> imbrandon: Ah. :)
[08:35] <persia> TheMuso: Makes sense.  I still use sbuild 0.53 for the same reason.
[08:35] <TheMuso> persia: Why 0.53?
[08:35] <imbrandon> i'm using whatever was in svn
[08:35] <imbrandon> lol
[08:36] <persia> TheMuso: I'd need to rebuild all my configs to handle the sbuild integration changes introduced in 0.54.  If I'd only waited a few more weeks to start using sbuild...
[08:37] <TheMuso> ah
[08:37] <persia> (err.  the schroot integration changes)
[08:39] <StevenK> I updated my config after upgrading. I think it involved commenting out one line in my .sbuildrc
[08:40] <persia> StevenK: It is that simple?  I attempted it once, ended up purging everything, wiping all my local files, reinstalling everything, and finding it didn't work unless I reverted to 0.53.  I'll have to look again (or perhaps my installation is special somehow)
[08:41] <persia> s/local/~/.s{build,chroot}/
[08:42] <imbrandon> oh the ppa interface changed, hrm
[08:42] <TheMuso> How much of a change?
[08:42] <imbrandon> my deb src lines look wrong AND it looks like they took out the need for overides
[08:42] <imbrandon> TheMuso, quite a bit
[08:42] <imbrandon> still no delete i see though
[08:42] <StevenK> It managed to build something for me after I upgraded to Gutsy.
[08:43] <StevenK> imbrandon: No, that's later, but we can apparently ask for it now via Answers.
[08:43]  * TheMuso feels sorry for those at the other end of those requests.
[08:43] <imbrandon> StevenK, well last week they said it would be in this publish
[08:43] <imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+archive
[08:44] <imbrandon> ok i'm assuming this buildd is looking for source packages in ~buildd/upload ?
[08:49] <siretart> but it seems you still cannot remove packages from a PPA yet. hm
[08:50] <tonyyarusso> siretart: I think it was deferred again
[08:50] <imbrandon> heya siretart
[08:50] <siretart> hi imbrandon
[08:52] <flohack> hi there! I'd like to get a small patch applied to a package. The assignee of the relevant bug does not seem to respond and I don't know whom else I could assign it. Bug is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/149321
[08:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149321 in kdepim "[Gutsy] Basket notes is no longer embedded in kontact!" [Low,In progress]
[08:53] <imbrandon> hrm i'm missing something here
[08:53] <imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ ls -l upload/
[08:53] <imbrandon> total 984
[08:53] <imbrandon> -rw-r--r-- 1 buildd buildd   5781 Oct 20 23:00 netsurf_1.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1.diff.gz
[08:53] <imbrandon> -rw-r--r-- 1 buildd buildd    687 Oct 20 23:00 netsurf_1.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc
[08:53] <imbrandon> -rw-r--r-- 1 buildd buildd 987786 Oct 20 23:00 netsurf_1.1.orig.tar.gz
[08:53] <imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$ wanna-build --list=needs-build --dist=hardy
[08:53] <imbrandon> Total 0 package(s)
[08:53] <imbrandon> buildd@lab:~$
[08:54] <StevenK> Hrm.
[08:54] <StevenK> wanna-build, doesn't wanna
[08:54] <imbrandon> heh
[08:54] <StevenK> Does wanna-build have a -v or something?
[08:55] <imbrandon> well i'd assume it needs to be run on a cron or something but that howto dident list anything
[08:55] <imbrandon> and yea
[08:55] <imbrandon> it has -v
[08:56] <StevenK> Add -v and see if it tells you where it's looking and such
[08:56] <imbrandon> well no, lemme pastebin
[08:56] <imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42053/
[08:57] <flohack> Anyone curious to apply a patch to basket?
[08:58] <StevenK> imbrandon: What does wanna-build -l all say?
[08:58] <imbrandon> StevenK, im assuming i need to run it in ~buildd/upload  like wanna-build *.dsc
[08:58] <imbrandon> one sec
[08:58] <TheMuso> flohack: Is this for hardy, or an earlier release?
[08:59] <imbrandon> Total 0 package(s)
[08:59]  * persia dislikes the new publishing history interface
[08:59] <flohack> It needs fixing in gutsy, as it breaks kde-pim integration for basket
[08:59] <flohack> but probably in hardy too
[08:59] <StevenK> persia: I do too, but I've yet to actually put into words why.
[09:00] <persia> flohack: That patch needs wrapping to be applied correctly.  The assigned developer hasn't looked in a couple days, but will likely get back to it soon (the archives only just opened)
[09:00] <persia> StevenK: I think it has something to do with the need to scroll, and the colors, but I'm not sure.
[09:00] <flohack> persia: and 'wrapping' in this context would mean...?
[09:01] <StevenK> persia: Yeah. If it could be wrapped up like the bits at the side, and it didn't do stupid things like "gutsy-release"
[09:01] <imbrandon> StevenK, you mean +packages ?
[09:01] <persia> flohack: Someone needs to prepare a candidate revision including that patch (and perhaps fixes for 110084 and 152022 as well).  I suspect it will be prepared with the merge to hardy, but I'm not sure it will go back to gutsy.
[09:02] <nxvl> i'm having problems with apache2.2.6 debian/rules
[09:02] <persia> nxvl: That's a special package.  Are you sure you want to attack it?
[09:02] <nxvl> persia: yes i am
[09:03] <nxvl> i'm working on LP bug #130836
[09:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130836 in apache2 "Specify OpenDocument icon(s) in Apache2 configuration" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130836
[09:03] <StevenK> imbrandon: persia and I are discussing the page like http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp
[09:04] <flohack> persia: You want to say that this bugfix is too small to be applied seperately, don't you? I think we are seeing a general problem with Ubuntu releases here. Bugs are very rarely fixed in released versions. I think that's not a good approach.
[09:04] <imbrandon> ah
[09:04] <persia> StevenK: I can live with that - it actually fixes something I didn't like in 1.1.9.  I'm annoyed with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp/+publishinghistory
[09:04] <gilligan_> hi.. I have a question on the process of building ubuntu - there is some information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment describing the organizational process, but I am curious about the way things are actually implemented. I assume there is some automatic build system to build an ubuntu release ..? is there any place where I could find out more about that ?
[09:05] <persia> flohack: I'm not knowledgeable enough about basket or kdepim to say whether it should be applied to gutsy or not, but the policy requires that it be applied to hardy prior to being applied to gutsy, so that must happen first.  When fixing hardy, as it's the beginning of the cycle, a developer is likely to try to fix all the bugs, even if it takes a little longer, rather than fixing each one individually.
[09:06] <nxvl> persia: can you give me a hand?
[09:06] <persia> nxvl: Not today.  Sorry.
[09:06] <nxvl> persia: ok, thnx anyway
[09:07] <flohack> flohack: I see. Thanks for the info, I'll just keep an eye on it.
[09:17] <nxvl> mmm, the real problem i with uudecode as i'm now seeing
[09:17] <nxvl> :S
[09:18] <nxvl> is there any way to put binary files outside debian/ on build?
[09:26] <imbrandon> ugh if i run `wanna-build *.dsc` on the uploads dir it puts them in the state "building" not needs-building
[09:27] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, dident you setup a wannabuild at one time
[09:30] <nxvl> does anyone has wor with uudecode on debian/rules?
[09:33] <persia> nxvl: I think flobopuyo does that in a fairly transparent manner.  You might take a look there.
[09:38] <nxvl> persia: i was making a dummy mistake, i have just seen it
[09:38] <nxvl> :P
[09:38] <nxvl> persia: thnx anyway
[09:39] <nxvl> btw, can i build only one of the .deb's from a source?
[09:39] <joumetal> i've built libqalculate-0.9.6 and qalculate-gtk. Istructions were from tuesdays packaging101 session. They built well and run. No further testing is done. What to do next?
[09:39] <nxvl> or do i need to build them all?
[09:39] <nxvl> joumetal: find a sponsor
[09:40] <nxvl> joumetal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[09:40] <persia> joumetal: Did you prepare a debdiff for a candidate revision?
[09:42] <BugMaN> hi all
[09:42] <nxvl> hi!
[09:42] <joumetal> persia not yet. debdiff of .dsc or debdiff of .deb
[09:43] <gilligan_> does ubuntu use the same autobuilder setup as in debian ?
[09:43] <persia> joumetal: debdiff of .dsc.  You might look at the "Preparing New Revisions" section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for some hints on preparing this.
[09:44] <persia> gilligan_: No.  Ubuntu uses Soyuz, part of Launchpad.
[09:45] <huats> mornin al
[09:45] <huats> l
[09:45] <imbrandon> gah i give up on this thing for the night, gnight all
[09:45] <imbrandon> one last smoke and i'm off to sleep
[09:45] <nxvl> huats: morning, once again you wake up, and i go bed :P
[09:46] <huats> nxvl: hey
[09:46] <huats> nxvl: actually I am awake for quite a long time now (3h)
[09:46] <huats> but I didn't went here before
[09:46] <huats> but the timing is almost perfect
[09:46] <huats> :)
[09:46] <nxvl> huats: and i'm supose to be on bed long time ago (like 4 hours)
[09:47] <huats> :)
[09:47] <huats> nxvl: so go to bed
[09:47] <huats> !
[09:47] <huats> :)
[09:47] <nxvl> huats: apache needs me
[09:47] <nxvl> and i can't sleep
[09:47] <huats> ok
[09:47] <nxvl> i think i will have no sleep today
[09:47] <nxvl> y must go classes in 3 hours
[09:48] <gilligan_> persia: hm.. are there documents on how soyuz works anywhere? :)
[09:48] <nxvl> gilligan_: have you search on the wiki?
[09:48] <persia> gilligan_: Not that I've seen.  The process is basically similar, but implemented differently.  You might try #launchpad
[09:49] <nxvl> gilligan_: it must be in the wiki or in help.launchapad.net
[09:49] <gilligan_> nxvl/persia: thanks
[09:49] <nxvl> gilligan_: or as persia said, ask in #launchpad
[09:50] <nxvl> ok building, i will try it tomorrow
[09:50] <nxvl> see you all
[09:50] <nxvl> *HUGS*
[09:51] <pkern> ScottK: Don't abuse me. :-P
[10:41] <BugMaN> persia: can i ask a little question on a bitesize bug?
[10:42] <persia> BugMaN: Yes, although I encourage you to ask generally, rather than to a specific person.  Others may be as qualified or me to answer your question.
[10:42] <BugMaN> ok
[10:42] <BugMaN> bug 33594
[10:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 33594 in screem ".desktop cleanup" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33594
[10:42] <BugMaN> i'm making a debdiff
[10:42]  * persia becomes nostalgic
[10:43] <BugMaN> but what version i can do? gutsy or hardy?
[10:43] <BugMaN> it's your bug i suppose :)
[10:44] <persia> BugMaN: That was part of one of my first attempts to fix all the desktop files, and my first experience with being told not to mass-file bugs :)
[10:44] <BugMaN> :)
[10:44] <persia> Anyway, you'll want to target hardy: it's certainly not SRU material.  Further, you'll want to check the file: it's been over 6 months, and it may not validate today (I suspect it won't).
[10:45] <BugMaN> persia:  ok i'm make a package then thes new .desktop file and upload a debdiff for hardy
[10:45] <BugMaN> /thes/tes
[10:45] <BugMaN> test *
[10:45] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for MOTU's to Advocate my Package on REVU (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=410)
[10:46] <persia> BugMaN: Right.  At a quick glance, I think my suggested changes from April are still useful, but I suspect there's more needed.
[10:46] <BugMaN> persia: ok
[10:47] <persia> StevenHarperUK: it's good practice to also mention whether you're seeking the first advocate or the second in such requests.
[10:48]  * persia aplogises for not having the appropriate environment to review the package after the complaint.
[10:48] <StevenHarperUK> Ah well in that case it the First Advocate, I am  the developer and the Package and am completely at your disposal to answer any Questions about it.
[10:49] <persia> BugMaN: Also, thanks for asking me: regardless of my general advice, when a bug has lots of involvement by a specific person, asking them directly is encouraged.
[10:49] <BugMaN> persia: perfect :)
[10:50] <persia> StevenHarperUK: I can't do a full review, nor leave a comment right now, but a few small points:  Firstly, I'd encourage you to package this as non-native (debian/ in diff.gz) in case it is interesting to other distributions.
[10:51] <persia> Secondly, I just want to confirm that this is GPL V2 only.
[10:51] <StevenHarperUK>  It is
[10:51] <StevenHarperUK> id that makes it simpler
[10:51] <StevenHarperUK> I own all of it
[10:51] <persia> Thirdly, unless there are previous uploads in a repository or released to users, a shorter debian/changelog is encouraged.
[10:52] <StevenHarperUK> So cut the changelog down to the last few revisions?
[10:53] <persia> Fourthly, I'm not finding the complete text of the GPL in your source package, which I believe to be in violation of GPL v2.
[10:53] <StevenHarperUK> I thought you could just refrene it
[10:53] <StevenHarperUK> *Refrence
[10:53] <persia> re: changelog.  More, focus debian/changelog on release-oriented changes.  I'd recommend ./ChangeLog to contain all your updates to the code.
[10:53] <StevenHarperUK> ok
[10:54] <persia> StevenHarperUK: Binary packages may reference it when installed as part of a complete system.  Source packages must include it.
[10:55] <StevenHarperUK> Is there a place to get the GPL v2 text?
[10:58] <tonyyarusso> StevenHarperUK: /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL
[11:00] <StevenHarperUK> Thanks
[11:05] <persia> StevenHarperUK: My apologies, I've been called away.  A last quick note is that I don't see the GPL preamble in the source files.
[11:15] <scorpioxy> hey guys...anybody awake, i have a few questions on packaging
[11:18] <gpocentek> scorpioxy: don't ask to ask ;)
[11:18] <scorpioxy> right..i was just making sure that some people are awake...questions are on the way
[11:19] <scorpioxy> so i am trying to package a gnome applet...specifically a python applet....first question how is packaging a python program different than a regular one?
[11:19] <gpocentek> there's a policy for python packages
[11:20] <scorpioxy> Second question, i read in the PPA transcript that python based apps usually do not follow the regular makefile based packaging but instead follow a distutils base approach, how is that?
[11:20] <gpocentek> (http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy)
[11:20] <scorpioxy> gpocentek: the debian python policy...yes i saw that but didn't read it yet....so this also applies to python applets right?
[11:20] <gpocentek> scorpioxy: I believe that the Makefile/distutils depends on upstream choice
[11:21] <gpocentek> scorpioxy: I think it applies to applets too, but I've not touched python packages since a while
[11:22] <scorpioxy> gpocentek: I see. I don't mind the autoconf, makefiles voodoo...but i hate these tools they're so outdated...so i will read that policy first and then ask if my questions are answered there...thanks
[11:23] <gpocentek> scorpioxy: np, even if the chan seems inactive feel free to ask your questions
[11:23] <gpocentek> someone will answer, maybe a little later
[11:37] <StevenHarperUK> scorpioxy : do you need help with a python package... If so I have a SVN location that has my working package with build.sh scripts
[11:38] <scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: yes please. I was just about to write that i read the policy and i still do not know how to do the package.
[11:38] <StevenHarperUK>  scorpioxy: It's a real pain... 1 sec ill get the URL
[11:39] <StevenHarperUK> do a >svn export http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/
[11:40] <StevenHarperUK> http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/build_JFDI.sh thats the script that does my actaul build, then I just use dput to submit to REVU and my PPA
[11:41] <scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: ok thanks. I'll take a look right now.
[11:41] <StevenHarperUK> No probs, its not 100% perfect but I keep updating it :p
[11:43] <TheMuso> slangasek: Nice post to -devel-announce. :)
[11:51] <scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: the bash file is pretty simple. However, the debian directory is already defined. So how can i define the info in the debian directory? Do i follow the regular guide and just skip the building stuff?
[11:59] <StevenHarperUK> scorpioxy: you have to make all the files in the debian directory, they define what goes in  the package, how its installed and what distributions etc there for...
[12:00] <StevenHarperUK>  scorpioxy: basically use mine as a Template, modify all the files in ./debian/
[12:01] <scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: well that's one way..to just get a package and modify it. I prefer starting from scratch and reading up on the documentation. If they don't exist, i will write some. I will defer to the packaging guide and experiment a little. Thank you, i will use your applet as an example when i am stuck.
[12:04] <norsetto> morning all
[12:07] <StevenHarperUK>  scorpioxy: feel free to email me at StevenHarperUK_AT_gmail.com if you need more help
[12:08] <StevenHarperUK>  scorpioxy: I was planning to wite my own guide - as there isnt a good one - after I have finished this project
[12:09] <scorpioxy> StevenHarperUK: Thanks. Well, perhaps we can collaborate when i actually learn this stuff.
[12:11] <StevenHarperUK> scorpioxy: I'll be up for that
[12:19] <BugMaN> hi norsetto can you check my patch for bug 33594?
[12:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 33594 in screem ".desktop cleanup" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/33594
[12:19] <norsetto> BugMaN: have you subscribed u-u-s?
[12:20] <BugMaN> norsetto: nope, i'll do now :)
[12:20] <Lutin> I was just wondering ... is there an actual point keeping a diff against debian for ctsim ? Looks like it's not really useful to me, but I'd like to make sure
[12:21] <norsetto> BugMaN: ok, thanks, it will show in my list of things to do, so I'll check it as soon as I can
[12:22] <BugMaN> norsetto: thanks :)
[12:23] <Lutin> heya persia
[12:23] <persia> Good day Lutin
[12:23]  * persia thanks slangsek for the announcement
[12:24] <TheMuso> persia: I found the metaphore very amusing
[12:24] <TheMuso> Considering what I'll be doing tomorrow.
[12:24] <persia> TheMuso: heh.
[12:30] <Lutin> persia: can you have a look at the ctsim merge, and tell me if you see the point of keeping merging it ?
[12:42] <deadwill> yo!
[12:44] <rexbron> persia: I have uploaded genpo to revu (upid 406). When you get a moment, I would really apreciate your feedback. Thanks a lot :)
[12:45] <persia> rexbron: Sure.  I'll take a look in the next hour or so.
[12:46] <rexbron> persia: :)
[12:48] <persia> Lutin: A long long time ago, Ubuntu transitioned X before Debian.  I believe Debian has since made the transition, but I don't remember all the details.  If ctsim installs and runs without the patch, then there's no real value.
[12:49] <rexbron> persia: I have a question that perhaps you could answer. When I created the source upload, I told debuild to ignore .bzr (-i.bzr) but I still get a lintian warning about including .bzr in the source. Is there something else I need to include in the debuild line to exculde that dir?
[12:49] <persia> Lutin: On another note, I'm even more motivated to purge wxwindows for hardy, as it's LTS.  Currently ctsim segfaults for reasons I don't entirely understand when I build it with wxwidgets.  I don't suppose you'd take a look at that, for a new patch to merge, rather than going for a sync.
[12:49] <persia> rexbron: Use bzr export to generate the orig.tar.gz.
[12:49] <ScottK> Good morning all.
[12:50] <TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
[12:50] <rexbron> persia: ok will do and reupload
[12:50] <persia> rexbron: OK.  Let me know the upid when you're ready.
[12:50] <ScottK> Hello TheMuso
[12:51] <Lutin> persia: so what do you think, that a sync is best ?
[12:53] <persia> Lutin: I'm 99% sure a sync won't last until Hardy because of wxwindows -> wxwidgets, as we *really* don't want to support the complete brokenness of wxwindows for all of LTS.  I'm not sure that the existing Ubuntu variation warrants a merge, as I think we solved the problem a different way in Edgy, but I don't remember the details.
[12:53] <pkern> persia: I'd guess you should note details for future reference. :-P
[12:53] <Lutin> persia: ok
[12:54] <persia> pkern: Has Debian completed the XFree86 to X.org transition yet?  That's the critical factor in determining whether we should maintain the patch.
[12:55] <pkern> Should I rofl?
[12:55] <persia> pkern: More interestingly, if the transition was done, why haven't the ctsim package dependencies change?
[12:55] <persia> s/change/changed/
[12:56] <pkern>  ctsim (4.5.4-1) unstable; urgency=low
[12:56] <pkern>    * New upstrea
[12:56] <pkern> Should I really comment on such uploads?
[12:57] <pkern> persia: File a bug, be happy?
[12:57] <pkern> Probably an oversight.
[12:58] <persia> pkern: That's one of the tricky things: way back when, we were told not to file bugs for the x.org transition, and now it's just legacy cruft.  I suppose a bug would do, but there's much more that needs doing for that package :)
[12:58] <pkern> If it's legacy cruft it warrants a bug.
[12:59] <pkern> Of course if there is a transition plan within Debian it's not sensible to interfere with it.
[13:00] <persia> pkern: Right.  Thanks for the confirmation.  We don't tend to keep track of the Debian transition plans very well, and so forget to get annoyed when a package doesn't finish within the Debian timeframe.
[13:01] <pkern> And a certain reluctance to file Debian bugs...
[13:01] <ScottK> One would like to be fairly certain to avoid blowback, yes.
[13:01] <persia> Lutin: Based on that, how about just filing a bug against ctsim in Debian, with a small patch that does the right thing.  We might get lucky for a sync from the current diff, and I'm not sure of the timeframe for anyone actually investigating the issues with ctsim and wxwidgets.
[13:01]  * persia points pkern at debhelper 0.55 as a counter-argument to a reluctance to file bugs
[13:02] <Lutin> persia: the right thing being ? I'm no wx expert ;)
[13:02] <pkern> ScottK: If you use your Ubuntu hat... probably.
[13:02] <pkern> HEY I AM TEH UBUNTU AND I WANT TEH BUGS TO BEH FIXED. :-P
[13:03] <ScottK> Basically, yeah.
[13:03] <pkern> The other way being "Hey, I am a follower of the swirl, and this bug really annoys me. Would you mind to fix it?"...
[13:03]  * pkern is silly.
[13:03] <persia> Lutin: If you're willing to hunt the stacktrace for the wx port, fixing it would be good.  If you don't want to look at that, I'd suggest filing a bug in Debian about the xlib stuff, and waiting a few weeks.  Someone else might investigate the WX stuff later.
[13:04] <Lutin> persia: I'll have a look
[13:05] <fernando> moin all
[13:05] <ScottK> pkern: Most of the Debian bugs I file are either trivial to fix and a patch would be an insult or I provide the patch..
[13:05] <persia> Lutin: Thanks.  My experience was that it seemed to be less painful using wxwidgets2.6, but you might find wxwidgets2.8 easier (of course, that can't go back to Debian yet)
[13:05] <Lutin> k
[13:05] <pkern> ScottK: Right.  That's the preferred way.
[13:06] <pkern> And if the person is on the LowThresholdNmu list it's not a problem to NMU the fix in on (known) non-response.
[13:06] <ScottK> So I haven't actually had the blowback problem, but I know people that have.
[13:07] <ScottK> I tend to be more of the, I told Debian how to DTRT, up to them now.  It's fixed in Ubuntu, so my attention span is limited view.
[13:07] <ScottK> Unless it's in a place where I have svn access (Python Modules/Apps, then I just fix it).
[13:08] <ScottK> Good morning fernando.
[13:08] <pkern> ScottK: Full ACK on that.
[13:09] <persia> For some things, I prefer to pass a good solution to Debian, and wait.  Some maintainers get extra stubborn when Ubuntu implements something before they've had a chance to think about it.  Depends on the individuals involved (and the importance of actually doing it in any specific timeframe)
[13:11] <pkern> And there are changes in Ubuntu... which are... uh... indeed strange.
[13:11] <pkern> Better don't try to push the ldconfig.real hack :-P
[13:12] <persia> pkern: No.  That was only because of the release deadline.  There's a much better solution already in Debian, but it would have required recompiling 5 or six packages, rather than just one.
[13:12]  * ScottK has no idea what that is.
[13:12] <persia> ScottK: aolserver4
[13:13] <ScottK> Ah.  Particularly since that let openssl097 die an unlamented death Monday before the release.
[13:13] <persia> ScottK: Right.  The correct solution is in Debian, but we were in a hurry.
[13:13]  * persia plans to fix all that this weekend
[13:13] <ScottK> Great.
[13:16] <pkern> No, the sole presence of ldconfig as a wrapper which essentially does nothing.
[13:17] <jdong> heh launchpad janitor expired the azureus bug
[13:17] <persia> pkern: Ah.  That is likely to be reverted at some point, as soon as the dpkg-triggers is more generally implemented.  Actually, it's a fairly good indication that it was being called too many times during package installation that there was so little breakage.
[13:17]  * jdong thinks the expiration algorithm is still a bit screwy
[13:17] <persia> jdong: Reopen.  The Janitor isn't as smart as it thinks it is.
[13:18] <ScottK> jdong: Don't worry.  They turned that off.  They've told us that several times.  Any expiration notices you think you got are a figment of your imagination.
[13:18] <jdong> ScottK: ROFL
[13:18] <jdong> " Launchpad Janitor  wrote 56 minutes ago:  (permalink)"
[13:18] <jdong> must be a wormhole ;-)
[13:18]  * Fujitsu has seen it run once or twice since it was turned off.
[13:18] <ScottK> Yeah.  I got a bunch overnight too.
[13:18] <Fujitsu> Both... `mistakes', I seem to recall.
[13:19] <Fujitsu> jdong: Thanks for taking care of azureus.
[13:19]  * persia regularly gets notices, but perhaps that's an indication of bugs not getting attention
[13:19] <jdong> oddest part, the part of the ticket he said it expired for 60 days of inactivity... I changed the status *yesterday* :)
[13:19] <Fujitsu> jdong: Yeah, it's buggy, and meant to be turned off.
[13:19] <jdong> Fujitsu: sure thing :) glad to see it working again
[13:19] <ScottK> persia: The point is the functionality is currently in a known broken state.  They've SAID it was off.
[13:19] <persia> jdong: The janitor has trouble differentiating the age of different tasks.
[13:20] <persia> ScottK: Please, I completely agree with you :)
[13:20]  * jdong twiddles thumbs waiting for azureus to build in hardy :)
[13:21]  * persia praises the all-mighty omniscient StevenK for understanding my problem with sbuild 0.56.  If only Telstra was competent...
[13:22] <Fujitsu> ScottK: And it has grown more broken if it expired something after a status change yesterday.
[13:22] <ScottK> It's been that broken from the start.
[13:23] <persia> Fujitsu: I've had notices within hours of a status change, both recently, and when the Janitor first got over-excited.  Are you really sure it's worse?
[13:23] <ScottK> It's going on when it was set incomplete, not when it was last commented on.
[13:23] <Fujitsu> I thought status changes always stopped it, but comments didn't.
[13:23] <persia> ScottK: No.  It's going on when it was first set incomplete, not anything else.
[13:24] <ScottK> persia: Yes.  That's more precisely correct.
[13:24] <persia> Fujitsu: That's the spec :)
[13:24] <Fujitsu> It's completely bleeped up, anyway.
[13:25]  * persia thinks even comments should keep it open, but that's unrelated to the current implementation not matching the spec
[13:25] <ScottK> The design is bad and they didn't even implement that correctly.
[13:25] <persia> ScottK: Right, but those are two separate issues, which shouldn't be conflated.
[13:26] <ScottK> Agreed, but from my perpective they both have the same observable.
[13:26] <Fujitsu> persia: Right, that was meant to be fixed in the next iteration. 
[13:26] <persia> Fujitsu: Which of the two problems?
[13:27] <Fujitsu> persia: That comments aren't keeping them open.
[13:28] <ScottK> That and dupes being expired is a bug too.
[13:28] <persia> Fujitsu: So the current plan is to adjust the broken design to introduce new features without resolving the implementation issues?
[13:28] <Fujitsu> persia: What implementation issues?
[13:29] <zul> morning
[13:29] <persia> Fujitsu: On when it should be off, not noticing status changes (regardless of comments), etc.
[13:29] <persia> Umm.  That read badly.  Rather "without regard to whether comments are changing anything (which would be a new feature (and a welcome one))
[13:30] <ScottK> Well I just asked in #launchpad and it's clearly a suprise to the LP developers that it's still on.
[13:30] <Fujitsu> It can't be that hard to find the cron job and turn it off, surely.
[13:30]  * persia was waiting for a fairly stable state prior to providing feedback, as it's too hard to distinguish bugs from feature requests for a sensible conversation presently
[13:31] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Apparently.
[13:31] <ScottK> ... it is
[13:34] <jdong> I got a Free-Non-Free question.
[13:35] <jdong> let's say I bootstrap IcedTea with sun-java6-jdk
[13:35] <jdong> is the resulting icedtea free or non-free?
[13:35] <Fujitsu> Depends how much of its soul Sun Java injects, I guess... Presumably not much, so free.
[13:36] <jdong> I'm thinking of possible ways to backport the azureus package to Feisty
[13:36] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[13:36] <jdong> building icedtea is one way, which will be a struggle....
[13:36] <ScottK> There's always use that to build it one more time ...
[13:36] <jdong> the "binary" (bytecode, I guess) package from Gutsy/Hardy will run on Feisty without any dependency issues
[13:36] <jdong> but it will be forced to use a sun-java6-* runtime
[13:37] <Fujitsu> You could bootstrap icedtea in feisty-backports/multiverse, move it to universe, reupload it to build on itself... or just convince lamont.
[13:37] <jdong> i.e. multiverse.
[13:37] <jdong> Fujitsu: IIRC the reason I can't build a package with sun-java6 is because teh buildd needs human interaction, right?
[13:37] <jdong> (to accept an EULA)
[13:38] <Fujitsu> Ooh, yes.
[13:38] <jdong> Fujitsu: I'm thinking the "simplest" solution, if we have to involve lamont, is to just have him help facilitate a build against sun-java6?
[13:38] <Fujitsu> That's why batik and co fail..
[13:38] <jdong> (of course the resulting backport will be demoted to multiverse)
[13:38] <jdong> but it's not like Backports actually tracks pockets anymore
[13:39] <Fujitsu> It shouldn't be too difficult to get icedtea bootstrapped into -backports, should it?
[13:40] <jdong> Fujitsu: I've got nothing to bootstrap with
[13:41] <jdong> Fujitsu: I mean.... do I even dare to think gcj can compile java well enough to  build another runtime?
[13:41] <jdong> remember how badly it does with a torrent app like 1/10 of the size ;-)
[13:42] <Fujitsu> True.
[13:42] <jdong> and bootstrapping against sun-java* would be no easier than just compiling azureus with one of those
[13:42] <jdong> I cannot imagine requiring any more of these azureus backports.... Feisty is done.
[13:43] <ScottK> jdong: Many people will wait some months to upgrade, so it's useful.  There are also some kernel regressions that I suspect will leave some people on Feisty for some time.
[13:44] <jdong> ScottK: well, I want at least one backport (the 2.5.0.4 fixed packaging) to give Feisty folks a properly working Azureus
[13:44] <Fujitsu> As much as Azureus is capable of working...
[13:44] <ScottK> Agreed.
[13:45] <jdong> ScottK: next one down the road is a 3.0.3.4 upload to hardy based off Debian, needs a new SWT 3.3 dependency... and I have no real interest in porting that to Feisty
[13:45] <jdong> ScottK: especially since, Azureus is binary and arch independent
[13:45] <jdong> struggling so much just to make it read "~feisty1" doesn't make sense to me :)
[13:46] <ScottK> Agreed.
[13:46] <jdong> are the archives capable of making binary copies?
[13:46] <ScottK> Broken -> Not broken is significant, beyond that, sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
[13:46] <jdong> right
[13:46] <Fujitsu> jdong: I believe so, but I don't think it is done.
[13:47] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Isn't that how they get from *-proposed to *-updates or is that just source?
[13:47] <jdong> hmm
[13:47] <persia> jdong: It must be done manually, and is frowned upon, as it means that the package cannot be guaranteed to generate from the provided source, often causing license issues.
[13:47] <proppy> hi
[13:47] <proppy> norsetto: ping
[13:47] <jdong> persia: yeah, it does sound nasty
[13:48] <jdong> well, I'm off to class, take care everyone
[13:48] <Fujitsu> ScottK: That's both, but binary-only isn't done.
[13:48] <ScottK> Ah.  I see.
[13:49]  * persia notes that binary-only is done for new development releases, often causing lots of silent FTBFS bugs due to toolchain updates
[13:50] <persia> (this is why hardy looks so much like gutsy, and the buildds aren't as busy as one might expect)
[13:50] <ScottK> The launchpad but janitor has been turned off again.  It was accidentally turned back on.
[13:50] <Fujitsu> persia: That's source too.
[13:50] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Did the rollout turn it on?
[13:50] <ScottK> Fujitsu: kiko didn't say, just that it was done accidentally.
[13:50] <persia> Fujitsu: No, it isn't.  I've seen packages incapable of being built from the provided source make it through three releases.
[13:51] <persia> (or rather, both source and binaries are copied, but the binaries aren't generated from the source as part of the process)
[13:51] <Fujitsu> persia: That doesn't mean the source isn't copied too...
[13:51] <Fujitsu> Right.
[13:51] <Fujitsu> That would kill the buildds for weeks, which is probably a bad thing.
[13:52] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Sorry.  I missed the your point.  I was talking about plain binary copies (which aren't done, as a rule) whereas I now understand you were talking about binary copies without associated source (which aren't done, as a more stringent rule)
[13:53] <Fujitsu> persia: You said that `binary-only is done for new development releases', which confused me somewhat.
[13:53] <persia> Fujitsu: Would it be a bad thing?  I don't see how it's much worse than turning on the sync and asking for all the merges.  It'd expose toolchain issues earlier as well.
[13:53] <ScottK> Fujitsu: And they also managed to break at least some remote bug watches too.
[13:53] <amachu> bluekuja: hi
[13:54] <bluekuja> amachu, hi there
[13:54] <pkern> Do we get an archive rebuild for universe?
[13:54] <Fujitsu> ScottK: There were some significant changes in that area, so I wouldn't be surprised.
[13:54] <Fujitsu> pkern: Not except those from lucas.
[13:54] <amachu> bluekuja: yes
[13:54] <pkern> Fujitsu: But those are "only" QA checks, and are not uploaded?
[13:55] <persia> pkern: Right.
[13:55] <Fujitsu> pkern: Right.
[13:55] <amachu> bluekuja: i edited the debian/control file and removed conflict
[13:55] <Fujitsu> We don't have a sane binNMU procedure.
[13:55] <pkern> I think it would be worthwhile to get it for a LTS. ):
[13:55] <bluekuja> amachu, did you post the debdiff on the bug?
[13:55] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Do you know which piece of LP I should file the bug against?
[13:55] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Bugwatches? malone.
[13:55] <ScottK> Thanks.
[13:56] <amachu> bluekuja: not yet
[13:56] <persia> pkern: We've requested one for LTS, but it will still be manual cleanup for the FTBFS issues, and we won't absorb non-breaking changes.
[13:56] <persia> Fujitsu: Do we have any binNMU procedure?
[13:56] <effie_jayx> Hey guys could anyone give me a hand with my gpg key.. I have the data backed up but I need to import it to my new system. (It's blocking me from signing packages) :(
[13:56] <pkern> There's this XbuildY stuff?
[13:56] <bluekuja> amachu, ok, what do you need?
[13:56] <Fujitsu> persia: Only one that involves source uploads too, ie buildX, so no.
[13:57] <persia> Fujitsu: That's what I thought.
[13:57] <persia> pkern: Yes, but we only do that when we notice.  Pushing everything anytime after the first public version (about 6 weeks in) would block either the feature implementation or the bugfix workflow.
[13:58] <persia> (most XbuildY stuff is really to support full library transitions, as opposed to subtle changes)
[13:58] <pkern> We should at least recompile everything that hasn't been built since release X... but then if there is no binNMU support in place...
[13:59] <pkern> i.e. stricter QA and removal of obviously broken packages. ):
[13:59] <amachu> bluekuja: this is what i did
[13:59] <persia> pkern: We don't have any place to put removed packages.  Once it's gone, it requires lots of effort to get it back.
[14:00] <amachu> i ran the grab-merge.sh
[14:00] <pkern> It requires a sync?
[14:00] <amachu> it retrieved the files from DaD
[14:00] <amachu> then went through the REPORT file
[14:00] <Fujitsu> pkern: Basically, and unblacklisting.
[14:00] <pkern> persia: I don't share this concern.
[14:01] <amachu> edited the debian/control file
[14:01] <ScottK> And Newing again.
[14:01] <Fujitsu> And we have to keep track of what's missing, and what should be brought back.
[14:01] <persia> And all of that means the archive-admins have less time for the useful syncs, NEWs, and blacklisting that is their daily job.
[14:01] <pkern> Well we sync from unstable, and there is stuff which is even removed from testing for obvious reasons which is present in Ubuntu.
[14:02] <pkern> persia: Bah.
[14:02] <pkern> persia: So universe QA isn't a priority, time to quit?
[14:02] <persia> pkern: I generally try to pull all of that around when we finish import sync.  If you'd like to help filing the removal bugs, I'd appreciate more eyes
[14:02] <amachu> and removed the conflict
[14:02] <ScottK> Bug #157059 if anyone is interested in more LP breakage.
[14:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157059 in malone "Remote bug watches broken by new release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157059
[14:02] <bluekuja> amachu, fine
[14:02] <bluekuja> amachu, now debuild and debdiff it
[14:02] <bluekuja> amachu, paste the debdiff on the bug and subscribe u-u-s
[14:03] <pkern> persia: If we get the Freeze more early (which I heared will be the case).
[14:03] <persia> pkern: Not to quit, but that removals of things that may be useful to someone and still exist in Debian require special circumstances, beyond being completely broken.
[14:03] <ScottK> persia: We're about to test that.  I filed a removal bug on a dangerously broken (from a security and other perspective) package.  Dunno what'll happen with it.
[14:04] <amachu> i will try and ping you
[14:04] <Fujitsu> ScottK: I would have thought there would have been some kind of sanity check/migration run over a copy of the production DB, to catch things like that... a bugwatch going to Unknown should really raise some automated flags.
[14:04] <bluekuja> amachu, great
[14:04] <ScottK> Fujitsu: I would like lots of credit for being VERY restrained on #launchpad.
[14:04] <persia> ScottK: dangerously broken?  Which bug?  This could make getting rid of wxwindows require significantly less time on my part.
[14:05]  * ScottK looks
[14:05] <Fujitsu> persia: haha.
[14:05] <ScottK> The package in question adds itself to sudoers.
[14:05] <ScottK> persia: Bug 154730
[14:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154730 in secvpn "Please remove secvpn source and binary from Hardy" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154730
[14:05] <pkern> "itself"?
[14:05] <ScottK> pkern: In the postinst
[14:05] <jdong> ScottK: heh, as in the user the package creates?
[14:05] <ScottK> It's user
[14:06] <ScottK> Yeah
[14:06] <persia> Fujitsu: The remaining packages either haven't had an upstream release in eons, or don't have any plan to migrate.
[14:06] <pkern> ScottK: "Its" :-P
[14:06] <jdong> ScottK: universal sudoers? or just a single command?
[14:06] <ScottK> It's a limited set of command
[14:06] <ScottK> commands
[14:06] <pkern> "long gone inittab"... lalala
[14:06] <ScottK> That too.
[14:07] <ScottK> Basically it's broken beyond repair for Ubuntu and I'm not going to redo the entire package.
[14:07] <persia> ScottK: Right.  I suppose that means I should actually see if the package is useful before trying to fix bugs :)
[14:07] <ScottK> Your heart was in the right place
[14:07] <pkern> persia: We released Gutsy with things like linux-igd, which are so obviously broken. bug 133852
[14:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133852 in linux-igd "[UNMETDEPS][Gutsy] Broken dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133852
[14:08] <pkern> At least turck-mmcache got removed. ;)
[14:08] <ScottK> pkern: Get busy on the SRU then.
[14:08] <Fujitsu> pkern: As well as libapache-*
[14:08] <pkern> ScottK: Not fixable.
[14:08] <pkern> Fujitsu: Yep.
[14:08] <ScottK> Oh.  Nevermind
[14:08] <pkern> That's the point.  We obviously can't remove packages when they have been released.
[14:09] <pkern> -> we need to be more strict what we led into a LTS. But well.
[14:09] <pkern> universe isn't a priority. :-P
[14:09] <persia> pkern: It's attention.  I went through about 75 of the most broken packages in the last couple weeks before release to close those, but I didn't find all of them, and ran out of time.  More QA people means fewer QA problems.
[14:09] <Hobbsee> persia: the packages are still on launchpad.
[14:09] <pkern> persia: Aye.  But if the general opinion is to rather die than to remove packages, I don't see much of a point. ;)
[14:09] <pkern> In Librarian! :-P
[14:10] <persia> Hobbsee: My apologies, but I'm failing to collect enough meaning to respond intelligently.
[14:10] <ScottK> Hobbsee: The launchpad bug janitor was 'accidentally' turned back on too.
[14:11] <ScottK> OTOH, I do like this new source package front page better than the last new source package front page.
[14:11] <persia> pkern: It's not "rather die", it's that it's usually not more than an hour or two to fix those that aren't completely useless, and people need to carefully identify the completely useless ones to make sure 1) upstream won't fix everything soon, 2) there is an alternative, and 3) there isn't any sane way to fix it.
[14:11] <Hobbsee> persia: sorry, was reading backscroll.  the packgaes removed are still on launchpad
[14:12] <persia> pkern: It just takes time.
[14:12] <Hobbsee> (publically)
[14:12] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yay...
[14:12] <lamont> jdong/Fujitsu: fixed in gutsy. :0)
[14:12] <persia> Hobbsee: Not all of them :)  I understand that Warty and Hoary have been purged, so some can finally die their deserved deaths.
[14:12] <lamont> (icedtea)
[14:13] <Fujitsu> Urrrgh, what killed +publishinghistory?
[14:13] <Hobbsee> persia: ah right.
[14:13] <ScottK> persia: Google probably has those.
[14:13] <persia> Hobbsee: Alternately, would you volunteer to deal with the blacklist cleanup if we removed all the useless packages for hardy, and then needed to get some of them back for j* ?
[14:13] <Hobbsee> persia: no.
[14:13] <Hobbsee> persia: -ENODRESCHERACCESS
[14:14] <persia> ScottK: And the wayback machine, but I don't care about them as much.  People can't file bugs and expect any sensible response.
[14:14] <Fujitsu> persia: They're swtill in librarian.
[14:14] <Fujitsu> s/w//
[14:14] <persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Until we get a volunteer, I still believe it's generally worth the hour or so not not be completely broken.
[14:14] <persia> Fujitsu: It's still there, just sinfully ugly and nearly useless.
[14:15] <Hobbsee> persia: it wouldnt be hard, assuming someone else came up with a list of what should be unblacklisted.
[14:15] <Fujitsu> THey're gone from archive.ubuntu.com, that's all.
[14:15] <zul> are we talking about the driver sources in universe (ie: linux-igd)?
[14:15] <persia> Hmmm....
[14:16] <Fujitsu> What do others think of the new +publishinghistory?
[14:16] <zul> broken packages like linux-igd?
[14:16]  * persia wants the old +publishinghistory back
[14:16] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[14:16] <Fujitsu> So you can actually see what is happening.
[14:16] <persia> zul: Yes.
[14:16] <Fujitsu> Rather than scrolling through some large number of non-tabular pages.
[14:17] <ScottK> persia: Let's go find sabdfl and beat him up over it.
[14:17] <persia> The old one was still pretty.
[14:17] <persia> ScottK: I'm not good at controlling the amount of unleashed violence, so I'd best sit that out.
[14:17]  * ScottK wasn't expecting you to.
[14:18] <zul> persia: the problem with things like linux-igd (kernel drivers in universe) is that they are usually made specific for debian not ubuntu and dont work with our kernel sources, so you have to find someone interesting in fixing them for ubuntu or they will remain broken
[14:18] <zul> nature of the beast
[14:18] <Fujitsu> The timeline for each sourcepackagerelease on the new one is nice, but a lot harder to read, and probably more appropriate on the home page.
[14:19] <persia> zul: Right.  As I understand it, our current policy is that someone should become interested, rather than that we should purge it.  There have been a few cases where some bugs were filed, and a team was formed to address it (rt2500 springs to mind)
[14:19] <ScottK> Fujitsu: No, it's much more important to have semi-random debian/changelog bits there.
[14:19]  * persia also wants a link to changelogs.ubuntu.com
[14:19] <zul> rt2500 shouldnt probably be included in universe since there are kernel drivers for rt2500 for ubuntu already provided by the kernel team
[14:19] <Fujitsu> persia: But you can't link to outside LP! LP must do everything!
[14:20] <persia> Fujitsu: What about the default external link on https://launchpad.net/~fujitsu/ to wiki.ubuntu.com.  Can't we have something like that?
[14:20] <zul> persia: i would become interested but I dont have the time
[14:21] <persia> zul: That's good to hear.  It validates my understanding of the policy.  Now we just need more people with your interests, to help share the load :)
[14:22] <zul> persia: alot of people on the motu team dont have a clue about kernel drivers as well
[14:23] <persia> zul: That's true today, but I'm not sure that all new contributors will also not have any understanding.  Plus, there are several people who can program, but don't really have any interests yet, and can be drawn towards things...
[14:24] <zul> persia: sure
[14:25] <joumetal_> bug 133336 any comments?
[14:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133336 in libqalculate "New upstream version" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133336
[14:26] <Hobbsee> joumetal_: please update it.
[14:27]  * Hobbsee wondesr which version that is.
[14:27] <Hobbsee> oh nice.
[14:27] <Hobbsee> joumetal_: have you thought of pushing that to debian, and we sync?
[14:27] <zul> hey Hobbsee
[14:27] <persia> joumetal_: You might get a better response by putting it on REVU than in LP.  Alternately, you'd want to subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get someone to consider uploading.
[14:27] <Hobbsee> debian maintainer is quite happy to take uploads, if someone else has done the work.
[14:28] <Hobbsee> joumetal_: presuably youv'e done qalculate* too?
[14:29] <joumetal_> Hobbsee persia I am quite newbie. First subscribing u-u-s. qalculate-gtk yes.
[14:30] <persia> joumetal_: It's not an issue to be new, although please accept that we may sometimes be brusque when critiquing candidates.  This is indeed the best place to ask questions to become familiar with the processes, and soon you'll no longer be new.
[14:31]  * Hobbsee really would look at pushing that to debian, if it's right.
[14:31] <Hobbsee> NMU as required
[14:32]  * Hobbsee emails the maintainer about it
[14:33] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: you around?
[14:33] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, yes
[14:33] <persia> Hobbsee: consider adding to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=libqalculate&archive=no&version=&dist=unstable instead of just emailing the maintainer :)
[14:34] <Hobbsee> persia: iv'e have previous contact with the maintainer.  *shrug*
[14:35] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, need something?
[14:35] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: one of the other reasons it's good to notify people, which i forgot to tell you yesterday, is for if you upload a crackful package like apt.
[14:35] <persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  OK.  I believe in public, but I won't step on personal connections.
[14:35] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, what happened with it?
[14:36] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: every time someone uploads apt, even if it's a no-change rebuild, the effective soname changes, and a whole bunch of stuff needs rebuilding,e very single time :)
[14:36] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: i havent found another pakcage like ityet, but i wouldnt be that there arent more like that :)
[14:37] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: and you only find that out if the maintainer warns you of that, or you find out because everyone's screaming at you over what you broke :)
[14:37] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, hehe true
[14:37]  * Hobbsee thougth xen was in main, anyway
[14:38] <geser> Hobbsee: apache2-mpm-itk needs also a rebuild everytime someone uploads apache2 (due to dependencies)
[14:38] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: so all in all, a great idea to ask :)
[14:38] <Hobbsee> geser: there you go.  another crackful package.
[14:38] <zul> Hobbsee: xen is in main, bits and pieces are in universe
[14:38]  * Hobbsee suspects some of the libs do that too
[14:38] <Hobbsee> zul: ahh
[14:38] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, you're right. I asked sorry to zul about it :)
[14:38]  * persia thinks there are lots of them, although the Debian "make everything binNMU safe" effort will help.
[14:39] <amachu> bluekuja: i am understanding now :-)
[14:39] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: no problem, i'm not trying to grill you - i just remembered the other thing that i'd forgotten to tell you of last night - which most people arent even aware of
[14:39] <amachu> started to get things right
[14:39] <amachu> :-)
[14:39] <Hobbsee> most people have not had the misfortune to upload packages like apt :)
[14:39] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, well done. Every advice is alwais really welcome
[14:39] <bluekuja> :)
[14:40] <Hobbsee> :)
[14:40] <bluekuja> brb
[14:46] <bigon> mmm I have a strange issue when building a package using cdbs, I get a lintian warning debian-changelog-file-is-a-symlink
[14:47] <bigon> does somebody else see the same thing?
[14:48] <persia> bigon: Umm..  That's because the symlink thing is only partly done.  You can safely ignore the lintian warning as long as the dependencies guarantee that the symlink will always work (which it should, or CDBS shouldn't use the symlink)
[14:48] <bigon> but I don't get this when building in a sid pbuilder
[14:48] <persia> bigon: For extra points, prepare a patch against lintian that checks the package dependencies, and doesn't complain if the symlink is guaranteed to resolve.
[14:49] <persia> bigon: sid doesn't have the CDBS symlink change
[14:49] <bigon> oh
[14:49] <bigon> it seems to be a violation of the debian policy :o
[14:49] <bluekuja> amachu, back, nice to hear that
[14:49] <bluekuja> :)
[14:50] <persia> bigon: It is.  The idea is that if the symlink is guaranteed to resolve, it should be safe in practice, and it saves space on the CDs and for mobile.
[14:50] <persia> (especially for packages with lots & lots of identical changelogs, like OOo, etc.)
[14:51] <bigon> kk I saw something about the upstream changelog but not the debian one
[14:51] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, I have made all the changes suggested by persia (MOTU) this morning, are there any MOTU's available to check and Advocate my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=412
[14:52] <persia> StevenHarperUK: Better request, but still missing how many advocates you already have :)  I'll take another (better) look in a little bit.
[14:52] <StevenHarperUK> ah your still here: I have 0 Advocates :P
[14:52] <geser> StevenHarperUK: why is this a native package? (no .orig.tar.gz)
[14:53] <StevenHarperUK> ah : thats the only bit I didn't understand
[14:53] <StevenHarperUK> My build script makes it with the version number
[14:53] <StevenHarperUK> Im not sure what I have to change
[14:54] <persia> StevenHarperUK: To make it a non-native package, you (as upstream) should prepare a version with no debian/directory to use for orig.tar.gz.  Then you add the debian/ directory in your candidate release, and set the version to be x.z.y-0ubuntu1 in your changelog.  This makes a normal package.
[14:54] <geser> you need to have an easycrypt_0.2.1.4_orig.tar.gz (unmodified upstream code) and a version like 0.2.1.4-0ubuntu1
[14:55] <geser> dpkg-buildpackage should generate a diff.gz for it
[14:56] <StevenHarperUK> What's a good way to go about this? I'm running  this at the moment : sudo dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -I\.svn -tc -kD330E9E8BEE08F9E
[14:57] <StevenHarperUK> Do have I have Hand Crank  the Orig tar?
[14:57] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: you dont need to sudo, if you're running with -rfakeroot
[14:57] <StevenHarperUK> ah yes
[14:57]  * Hobbsee tries to figure out what the last part does, after the -sa
[14:57] <StevenHarperUK> removes .svn files
[14:57] <persia> StevenHarperUK: I'd suggest you prepare a release tarball with svn export -r nnnn, and then use that for orig.tar.gz.  It should shorten your commandline to `debuild -S -sa`
[14:57] <StevenHarperUK> and signs the files
[14:57] <geser> StevenHarperUK: I usually use dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot -uc -uc, check if the source package builds in a pbuilder and sign then with debsign
[14:59] <rexbron> persia: I reuploaded with the non .bzr containing source package, care to look at it? upid 413
[15:00] <persia> rexbron: I'm currently deeply stuck into upid 406.  Unless you made lots of other changes, all my comments will still apply.
[15:00] <Fujitsu> Hm... hasn't -security traditionally kept to its own buildds?
[15:01] <persia> Fujitsu: No.  It shares, and gets higher priority.
[15:02] <Fujitsu> persia: I thought jackass had its own wanna-build etc. setup, hence the buildd for each architecture for security.
[15:03]  * Hobbsee wonders how to make this phone show up in nautilus, connected by a usb cable.
[15:03] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What kind of phone?
[15:03] <Fujitsu> Most aren't browsable like that...
[15:03] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: samsung
[15:03] <Hobbsee> tis on windows.
[15:04] <persia> Fujitsu: I've seen lots of security builds on the normal buildds before, but don't know the internals as well as you.
[15:04] <persia> Hobbsee: gnome-phone-manager might help, but gnokii doesn't support lots and lots of models.
[15:05] <Hobbsee> why doesnt nautilus Just Handle It?
[15:05] <Fujitsu> I didn't think it was done, but hmm...
[15:05] <Hobbsee> it's a fricking USB connection.  it shouldnt be that hard?
[15:05] <persia> Hobbsee: You might also try the obex;// style links, but I've never gotten those to work.
[15:05] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Nautilus doesn't speak Proprietary Phone Protocol X.
[15:05] <Fujitsu> USB defines very little protocol.
[15:05] <persia> Fujitsu: No, but gnome-vfs handles OBEX over serial over USB, if everything is configured properly.
[15:06] <Fujitsu> Assuming that the phone speaks OBEX.
[15:06]  * persia thought all recent phones spoke OBEX, excepting those sold by NTT
[15:06]  * Hobbsee wonders why konqueror does, then.
[15:07] <Hobbsee> ah, it found the mini-sd card.  good.
[15:07] <persia> Hobbsee: konquerer doesn't try nearly as hard to do the right thing, and so tends to just work when manufacturers do the right thing.
[15:08] <Hobbsee> ah.
[15:09]  * persia asserts that Makefiles are insufficiently original to be worthy of copyright
[15:10] <Fujitsu> persia: Stealing some debian/rules?
[15:10] <Kmos> happydigger ( http://packages.qa.debian.org/h/happydigger/news/20071020T184703Z.html ) can't be synced in hardy? It now uses GTK 2+ v2.12.0
[15:10] <persia> Fujitsu: No, just failing to complain about license issues when upstream doesn't preamble the Makefile.  It'd just be useless clutter.
[15:11] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[15:11] <Hobbsee> right.  got the photos off the phone.
[15:13] <sacater> Hobbsee: heya
[15:13] <sacater> Hobbsee: got any ideas on this? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/15816
[15:13] <persia> rexbron: I've stuck up a task list :)  If I'm not around when you upload next, please email me.
[15:15] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:15] <Hobbsee> sacater: there's an existing bug about acpid.  i asked mjg59 to look into it.  unsure if he ever did.
[15:16] <sacater> Hobbsee: shall i answer with details on the acpi bug?
[15:16] <geser> Hi bddebian
[15:16] <Hobbsee> sacater: probably a good idea
[15:16] <bddebian> Heya geser
[15:16] <sacater> Hobbsee: will do
[15:16] <sacater> Hobbsee: do you have a link to the bug?
[15:16] <sacater> to hand
[15:16] <Hobbsee> sacater: no.  but it's not ahrd to find.
[15:16] <Kmos> I'm not at linux now, can someone do a requestsync for homebank ? it can be synced..
[15:16] <sacater> kk
[15:16]  * Hobbsee duped a whol ebunch against it before
[15:17] <Hobbsee> Kmos: does it have ubuntu changes?
[15:17] <Kmos> Hobbsee: yes..
[15:17] <Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org/h/homebank/news/20071014T173941Z.html
[15:17] <Hobbsee> Kmos: can they be dropped?  if so, why.
[15:17] <persia> Kmos: You can request one manually by filing a bug.  No need to run the script.
[15:17] <Kmos> Hobbsee: they're not dropped.. but it was added
[15:17] <Hobbsee> giving me a URL to the new changes file is not answering the question.
[15:18] <Hobbsee> as in, they werent dropped from ubuntu, but were added to debian?
[15:18] <Kmos> * debian/control: added librsvg2-common to Depends (LP: #130847)
[15:18] <Kmos> this is the last change in ubuntu
[15:18] <Hobbsee> if that's true, yes they can be dropped.  or you're confused.  either way.
[15:18] <Kmos> that's added in debian version
[15:18] <Hobbsee> Kmos: what about all the stuff from ubuntu1?
[15:19] <Kmos> Hobbsee: i think i need to check that when i got home
[15:19] <zul> Kmos: i think what Hobbsee is trying to say is what leg work have you done to make sure that it works with Ubuntu?
[15:20] <Kmos> zul: i understand that
[15:20] <Hobbsee> Kmos: right.  then dont even bother asking for people to file it for you, or check it, before you've done that.
[15:20] <Kmos> i need to check at home the ubuntu1 changes
[15:20]  * Hobbsee thought you had learned something since last time.
[15:21] <sacater> another LP question 'Will libapache2-mod-layout be introduced to gutsy at some point ? And if so, When ?'
[15:21] <sacater> anyone know :/
[15:22] <Hobbsee> sacater: if it's not there now, it never will be.
[15:22] <Hobbsee> unless it gets backported
[15:22] <sacater> lol kk
[15:23]  * Hobbsee wonders if anyone else is under hte delusion that you only need to check the last ubuntu change, and screw any before that.
[15:24] <bddebian> You mean there might be more than the last one?
[15:24]  * bddebian hides
[15:24] <Hobbsee> bddebian: yes, there might be 26 of the fricking things, and it might be very unwise to assume that it can be synced!  :P
[15:25] <sacater> :o
[15:27] <sacater> my blog site downed..
[15:27] <bluekuja> amachu, check what I've added you in the butg
[15:27] <pkern> SONAME changes on simple rebuilds are scary and should be avoided .
[15:27] <bluekuja> *bug
[15:27] <sacater> i need to use a wordpress or something o.O
[15:28] <persia> StevenHarperUK: A dozen small notes added to upid 412, although there will likely be more if the package is looked at in more detail (I'll wait for your non-native upload).
[15:29] <Hobbsee> pkern: indeed!
[15:29] <Hobbsee> pkern: mvo means to fix it sometime.
[15:29] <pkern> Hobbsee: Or what our "trainer" at university once wrote as a footnode when dealing with Shannon information: Unlike the real world you don't know less when you consume certain information. ;)
[15:29] <huats> hello everyone
[15:29] <Hobbsee> haha
[15:29] <pkern> But my English skills are lacking to translate this properly. \:
[15:31] <StevenHarperUK> persia: thanks plent to get on with
[15:31] <huats> I was wondering : I've been doing some merges recently (what like everyone ??? ;)) and I like to know how to test them properly... Is the right way "take clean gutsy, change the sources to point to hardy.. and dist-uprgade ?"
[15:33] <zul> hauts: better way would be testing them in a chroot
[15:34] <Hobbsee> or pbuilder
[15:34] <Hobbsee> assuming you bindmount a few nasty bits (like .Xauthority .ICEauthority, iirc)
[15:42] <Amaranth> eep the janitor is back?
[15:42] <geser> huats: or use piuparts for install/upgrade/removal testing
[15:43] <huats> geser: let me check what is piuparts....
[15:43] <pkern> Amaranth: Nightmares are sticky.
[15:43] <huats> since by instance testing a php application like gallery is not really easy in chroot/pbuilder
[15:44] <ScottK> Amaranth: It was "by accident"
[15:45] <Fujitsu> ScottK: For the second or third time.
[15:45] <ScottK> Yep.
[15:45] <huats> geser: piuparts seems nice for testing the .deb indeed...
[15:49]  * Hobbsee does the no evil revu'ing dance.
[15:49] <amachu> bluekuja: i built but since am in a new pc, couldn't sign it
[15:49] <amachu> brb
[15:50] <huats> geser: have you use it for hardy yet ?
[15:51] <huats> ScottK: what did you told me about the deboostrap for hardy ? is it the same than for gutsy or not ?
[15:51] <bluekuja> amachu, sorry? check my comment please :)
[15:51] <huats> I know you already answered that... sorrry
[15:51] <geser> huats: no, using piuparts at all is still on my TODO list
[15:51] <huats> geser: ok
[15:51] <huats> geser: because it needs a deboostrap script for hardy...
[15:52] <ScottK> huats: Take your gutsy pbuilder and use --login --save-changes (I think - check the man page) and while in the pbuilder change gusty/hardy in sources.list, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade, exit and you have a Hardy pbuilder.
[15:53] <huats> rrrggg
[15:53] <huats> ScottK: yep
[15:53] <huats> exactly
[15:53] <huats> thanks (again...)
[15:53]  * ScottK randomly notes that the channel is logged and old answers can be found ...
[15:54]  * huats hides away....
[15:55] <lucas> soren: do you want me to upload ubuntu-dev-tools with the patch and send you the patch?
[15:57] <huats> geser:  just as a note, I just did what ScottK told me... (upgrade of my pbuilder to hardy) and I've noticed that the debootstrap of gutsy and hardy are the same...
[15:57] <huats> so when you need it to use piuparts just copy it...
[16:00] <StevenHarperUK> Persia
[16:00] <StevenHarperUK> persia: Im trying to find out whats wrong with my menu entry
[16:00] <StevenHarperUK> persia: you mention it's wrong, but I can't find what it is thats wrong...
[16:01] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: coNP[uni] knows about such stuff too.
[16:02] <StevenHarperUK> He just commented on REVU, so I thought it might still be fresh in his mind : ill carry on trying to work it out
[16:04] <coNP[uni]> Hey ScottK, StevenHarperUK
[16:04] <StevenHarperUK> Hi
[16:04] <StevenHarperUK> I think I have sussed it, thanks for the response anyway
[16:06] <StevenHarperUK> I do have a Python Packaging Question: I have placed my PY's in /usr/lib/easycrypt  my architecture is all, where should they be?
[16:12] <Hobbsee> Kmos: !!!!!
[16:12] <Hobbsee> Kmos: what did i tell you, half an hour ago?
[16:12] <Hobbsee> might have been longer.
[16:13] <Hobbsee> it was under an hour ago.
[16:15] <Kmos> Hobbsee: what have my sync requests wrong ?
[16:16] <Hobbsee> Kmos: if there are ubuntu changes in the package, you have to go and explain why they arent needed.  We covered this *an* *hour* *ago*.
[16:16] <Hobbsee> the information has *not* changed.
[16:16] <pkern> Hobbsee: Patience or silence. :-P
[16:16] <pkern> Hobbsee: The Ubuntean credo.
[16:17] <Hobbsee> pkern: this guy doesnt get patience.  but he might get all of his bugs in the sponsors queue marked as wontfix, due to this type of stuff.
[16:17] <Kmos> Hobbsee: you're talking about what package? i've requested two
[16:17] <Hobbsee> Kmos: stunnel4, i havent seen the other yet.
[16:17] <Kmos> Hobbsee: not all =)
[16:17] <Hobbsee> Kmos: i havent marked them all as wontfix *yet*.  i may still, if the ratio of good bugs to bad bugs is very low.
[16:17] <Kmos> Hobbsee: the stunnel has the reason why sync it.. since my change last time, he got a maintainer
[16:18] <Hobbsee> and you need to say that in the bug.
[16:18] <Kmos> Hobbsee: and i said
[16:18] <Kmos> check the first line
[16:18] <pkern> Hah.
[16:19] <Hobbsee> hm, that one looks OK
[16:19] <Kmos> "This package is no more orphan, it can be synced again."
[16:19] <ScottK> We don't not sync packages just for being orphaned.
[16:19] <Hobbsee> that doesnt mean that your changes, whatever they are, are not needed.
[16:20] <Kmos> the another one is ipkungfu
[16:20] <Hobbsee> yes, that one actually looks OK
[16:20] <Kmos> ok :)
[16:22]  * Hobbsee takes that off the sponsorship queue.
[16:24] <Kmos> thanks
[16:31] <amachu> bluekuja: u-u-s?
[16:31] <bluekuja> amachu, ubuntu universe sponsors
[16:33] <rexbron> siretart: Is there a way to change which gpg key revu uses for password recovery?
[16:33] <geser> Kmos: what has a new maintainer to do with the Ubuntu changes?
[16:34] <Kmos> geser: Last change was done by myself on ubuntu because the package was orphaned.. now it has a maintainer and new versions.. so it can be synced again
[16:35] <geser> and the changes you did? are they needed anymore? you didn't just change the maintainer
[16:35]  * Hobbsee removes all the sharp objects from around geser
[16:35]  * ScottK gets popcorn
[16:35]  * Hobbsee removes all the solid objects from around geser too
[16:37] <Kmos> geser: i've added only conflits and onother one i don't remember to debian/control
[16:37] <zul> *sigh*
[16:37]  * ScottK gets a bigger bowl of popcorn.
[16:37] <Kmos> geser: http://patches.ubuntu.com/s/stunnel4/stunnel4_3:4.20-2ubuntu1.patch
[16:37] <Kmos> it's here
[16:37] <Hobbsee> ScottK: popcorn?  give me a big bottle of alcohol.
[16:37] <Hobbsee> Kmos: and why can they be dropped?
[16:37] <geser> Hobbsee: I don't believe the sharp or solid objects are safer in your hands :)
[16:38] <Hobbsee> Kmos: and why did you not think it necessary to say it in the bug report?
[16:38] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Popcorn is a usual snack when watching a show here in the US.
[16:38] <jpatrick> can someone revu supercat? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=411
[16:38] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah, but i think i need something stronger, reading this.
[16:38] <Hobbsee> *much* stronger.
[16:38] <Hobbsee> geser: haha.
[16:38] <Hobbsee> geser: yeah, good point that.
[16:39] <Hobbsee> i'll lend them to zul
[16:39] <ScottK> Oh, like that's safe.
[16:39] <zul> hey!
[16:39] <Hobbsee> ScottK: he's far enough away, he says he'll only gouge out his own eyes.
[16:39] <Kmos> Hobbsee: i'll update it
[16:40] <Hobbsee> Kmos: why did you not do this *before* you subscribed the sponsor team?
[16:40] <Hobbsee> why not get it right teh first time, instead of being yelled at every time
[16:40]  * Hobbsee ponders MOTU-bingo
[16:41] <Kmos> Hobbsee: it's on the last changelog, i think i don't need to do it..
[16:41] <Kmos> now, i know
[16:41] <geser> jpatrick: you don't need to build-depend on packages which are build-essential (like libc6-dev) unless you need a specific version
[16:41] <Hobbsee> Kmos: yes, you do.  you have to do so explicitly, precisely because people like yourself *kept getting it wrong*.
[16:41]  * Hobbsee is *sure* you've heard this before.
[16:41] <ScottK> Kmos: It's written down in the procedure for syncs that it's needed.  Did you not read that or did you think you knew better than the documentation?
[16:41] <jpatrick> geser: it doesn't build otherwise
[16:42] <jpatrick> geser: it just needs the C header files to compile
[16:42] <jpatrick> nothing else :)
[16:42] <HE> jpatrick: libc6-dev is installed everywhere where Debian/Ubuntu packages are built
[16:43] <zul> Kmos: you need to provide enough information so that the person who is uploading can make the right decision, aggravating someone is not the right way to go
[16:43] <HE> jpatrick: You don't need to list it explicitly
[16:43] <HE> jpatrick: Also, there are architectures which don't have libc6 (but something libc6.1-dev, which provides the same functionality in almost every detail)
[16:44] <gpocentek> somebody has an experience with buildds and versioned Build-Conflicts?
[16:44] <Kmos> zul: yeap.. but i think MOTU will read the last changelog.. and it's there.. they don't trust what people right on comment or description.. i think
[16:44] <gpocentek> pbuilder fails, I don't know if the buildd will fail too
[16:44] <HE> gpocentek: Be more verbose
[16:44] <Hobbsee> gpocentek: what in particular?
[16:45] <Hobbsee> Kmos: dude, you want to provide all the information that's needed, so that the MOTU find it as easy as possible to deal with your bugs.
[16:45] <zul> Kmos: sometimes but due dilligence has to be done and providing a summary is sometimes best in the bug report
[16:45] <gpocentek> Hobbsee: lilypond depends on gs-gpl >= whatever and build-conflicts with gs-gpl < whatever
[16:45] <zul> Hobbsee: copy cat
[16:45] <Hobbsee> Kmos: of course, if you want to piss them off, keep doing what you're doing, adn we'll mark them all as wontfix.
[16:45] <ScottK> Hobbsee: When's then next CC meeting?
[16:45] <gpocentek> pbuilder doesn't like it, but I don't know about the buildd
[16:45] <Hobbsee> ScottK: no idea, but email this log (when it finishes) to dholbach please.
[16:45] <HE> gpocentek: That's not a problem (and I don't see why pbuilder should fail there)
[16:45] <jpatrick> HE: okay, it does work without it :) fixed
[16:46] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Will do.
[16:46] <gpocentek> HE: well, it fails
[16:46] <Kmos> Hobbsee: to ban me..lol
[16:46] <Hobbsee> gpocentek: what you might think about doing there is either setting up sbuild too, or (the preferred option, i suspect), throw it at your ppa, and see if it builds.
[16:46] <HE> gpocentek: Do you have a log somewhere? Because pbuilder shouldn't have an old gs-gpl installed anyway
[16:46] <geser> jpatrick: your debian/copyright is wrong, supercat is GPLv3 licensed
[16:46] <Hobbsee> Kmos: that depends on whether you're actually helping.
[16:47] <gpocentek> HE: it's just the dependency resolver which fails
[16:47] <gpocentek> the packages installation is OK
[16:47] <Kmos> Hobbsee: that's your point of view
[16:47] <jpatrick> geser: fixed
[16:47] <gpocentek> I could try with the pbuilders satisfy-depends, not the gdebi one...
[16:47] <HE> gpocentek: Ah. sbuild will manage, sbuild's dep resolver has nothing to do with the ones available in pbuilder
[16:47] <Hobbsee> Kmos: if you're regularly pissing off the MOTU, the people who have to sponsor your bugs, and pissing off debian, are you *really* helping?
[16:47] <Hobbsee> even with the few bugs that you manage to get right?
[16:48] <gpocentek> HE: if you say so :)
[16:48] <HE> Hobbsee: Hey, no reason to flame around here, that's helping noone...
[16:48] <HE> gpocentek: I've hacked on both, so yes, I do know :)
[16:48] <Hobbsee> ScottK: next CC meeting will be after UDS and allhands, i expect
[16:48] <ScottK> OK.
[16:48] <gpocentek> HE: ok, thanks :)
[16:48] <Hobbsee> HE: not flaming. just stating the truth.
[16:48] <Kmos> Hobbsee: and i say again.. that's your point of view, I don't see if like "piss off"..
[16:49] <Kmos> *it
[16:49] <Kmos> ScottK: but please, mail dholbach the log =)
[16:49] <HE> Hobbsee: Well, the truth is that pissing off Debian should be punished by death trough apt ABI bumps, but still...
[16:49] <ScottK> Kmos: I will.
[16:49] <Kmos> ScottK: thanks
[16:50] <ScottK> Kmos: I don't think it's going to get the reaction you think it's going to get.
[16:50] <Hobbsee> HE: :)
[16:50] <ScottK> Kmos: Remember when I got REALLY upset with you in #ubuntu-bugs and said I thought you should be kicked off the project?
[16:51] <Kmos> ScottK: yes? and..
[16:51] <ScottK> Kmos: Nothing that's happened since has convinced me I was wrong, just that I worded it inappropriately.
[16:51] <Kmos> ScottK: you shouldn't merge motu with bugs team
[16:51] <Hobbsee> ...
[16:51] <ScottK> Kmos: I'm talking about Ubuntu as a whole
[16:51] <Hobbsee> motu deals with bugs.
[16:51] <Hobbsee> it's kinda hard to not merge them.
[16:52] <Kmos> Hobbsee: but aren't the same team
[16:52] <Hobbsee> the place of the discussion is irrelevant.
[16:52] <Kmos> or even with launchpad
[16:52] <jpatrick> ajmitch: could you please add me as a reviewer on revu? thanks
[16:52] <Hobbsee> one is part of the other.
[16:52] <Kmos> Hobbsee: like when you asked kiko to close my account
[16:52] <Hobbsee> Kmos: i did not.  please do not make things up.
[16:52] <jpatrick> (we have logs)
[16:52] <Hobbsee> i asked *how* one goes about getting an account closed, from a person abusing launchpad.
[16:53] <zul> la deh dah..
[16:53] <Kmos> Hobbsee: that's the same thing.. that points to me that time
[16:53] <Hobbsee> which is actually very different.
[16:53]  * Hobbsee wishes there was an /ignore Kmos function in launchpad
[16:53] <Kmos> that day if you have "admin" power at LP you've closed it
[16:53] <zul> ok enough..
[16:54] <Kmos> Hobbsee: i like to have it too.. but not for me.
[16:54] <Kmos> zul: done from here :)
[16:54] <Hobbsee> yay.  then be productive.
[16:54] <Kmos> Hobbsee: I try =)
[16:55] <RainCT> hi
[16:55] <ScottK> Kmos: The trying is irrelevant.  It's the doing.
[16:55] <Lamego> hi
[16:55] <Kmos> Hobbsee: Can you check again the bug 157095
[16:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157095 in stunnel4 "Please sync stunnel4 3:4.20-5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157095
[16:55] <Kmos> Lamego: hi
[16:55] <Hobbsee> Kmos: if it's wrong, i'm going to makr it as wontfix.  are you sure that it's right?
[16:56] <Lamego> Kmos, :)
[16:56] <Kmos> Hobbsee: yes
[16:56] <Hobbsee> before you waste more time.
[16:56] <Hobbsee> good.
[16:56] <Kmos> Hobbsee: thanks
[16:56] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:56] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:56] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:57] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:57] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:57] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:57] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:57] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:57] <jpatrick> ok...
[16:57]  * santiago-ve Ausente por ahora.
[16:57] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:57] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:57] <Lutin> hrm
[16:57] <geser> Kmos: I still don't get it, why an new maintainer makes the changes to Conflict/Replaces obselete?
[16:57] <jpatrick> that's something you don't see everyday
[16:57] <Hobbsee> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:57] <soren> wtf..
[16:57] <bluekuja> :D
[16:57]  * santiago-ve Ausente por ahora.
[16:57] <RainCT> wtf?
[16:58] <geser> Hobbsee: your ! got stuck
[16:58] <Kmos> geser: because the package is back ? not orphanated
[16:58] <jpatrick> geser: apart from that is the rest of the package okay?
[16:58] <Kmos> geser: so we don't need another package to replaces it
[16:58] <RainCT> http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-manual.html <- is this the list of pending merges?
[16:59] <geser> Kmos: crywrap is back?
[16:59] <jpatrick> RainCT: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
[16:59] <Kmos> geser: no.. stunnel4
[16:59] <Kmos> crywrap was to replaces stunnel4
[16:59] <Kmos> because stunnel4 was orphan that time
[16:59] <Kmos> when i made the fix
[16:59] <geser> Kmos: please read up what conflicts and replaces means
[16:59] <Lutin> RainCT: this is the list of 'manual' merges
[16:59] <RainCT> jpatrick: danke :)
[17:00] <ScottK> Kmos: It wasn't because it was orphaned.  It was because it replaces it.
[17:00] <RainCT> ah, and what's the difference?
[17:00] <Hobbsee> yeah, so it seemed.
[17:00] <Hobbsee> whoops :)
[17:00] <Lutin> RainCT: 'manual' merges are mostly packages that are both in debian and ubuntu but have no common base version
[17:00] <Hobbsee> Kmos: what was the point of putting in the conflicts to start with?
[17:00] <Hobbsee> RainCT: not all of them are manual merges
[17:00] <Hobbsee> other way around.
[17:01] <StevenHarperUK> Hi again: I have been fixing stuff mentioned by MOTU's in the last set of comments for my Package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=41 : could someone (a MOTU) check it, im looking for Advocates (I have none so far)
[17:01] <Hobbsee> geser: he said he had before.
[17:01] <Kmos> Hobbsee: that time, you told me to do it, because it was orphan.. and because of people can upgrade from dapper to gutsy.. i think
[17:01] <Hobbsee> back when we last discussed that.
[17:01] <Hobbsee> RainCT: the ones mom could mostly resolve fine, vs the ones that it fell over on, basically
[17:01] <RainCT> Lutin, Hobbsee: ah ok, thanks
[17:01] <Hobbsee> Lutin: it seems to cope with most of them, though
[17:02] <Hobbsee> not because it was orphaned.
[17:02] <Hobbsee> Kmos: what's the point of a LTS release.
[17:02] <Hobbsee> Kmos: which releases do we support upgrades between?
[17:02] <Lutin> Hobbsee: oh, really ? thought that this kind of packages was automatically marked as manual
[17:02] <Hobbsee> ScottK: mind saving these logs under which parts they cover, so that we can just dish Kmos a log every time he asks, rather than retyping the same stuff each time?
[17:02] <Hobbsee> Lutin: no, dnot think so
[17:02] <RainCT> Hobbsee: what's about the debdiff for ubuntu-restricted-extras btw? gonna check flash first?
[17:03]  * santiago-ve is back.
[17:03] <Hobbsee> RainCT: yeah, that's a decnet idea.  i think there's another section i wanted to look at, too
[17:03] <Hobbsee> another open bug
[17:03] <Lutin> Hobbsee: ok
[17:03] <geser> StevenHarperUK: is the .la file needed in the -dev package? if not, please remove it, there is an ongoing effort to get rid of .la files
[17:04] <Hobbsee> Lutin: ideally, the lenght of the manual queue would be 0
[17:05] <Lutin> Hobbsee: well actually I'd rather put all the packages that have no common ancestor is -manual, because IMHO doing a debdiff between the debian and ubuntu packages is nonsense then
[17:05] <Lutin> as they're often quite different
[17:05] <Hobbsee> Lutin: all manual does is give you a massive diff
[17:05] <Hobbsee> but having the report is useful, as you can see which bits have changed.
[17:06] <Lutin> Hobbsee: yep. actually I meant putting them with 'regular' merges is a little bit awkward to me :). anyway, no big del
[17:06] <Lutin> deal*
[17:06] <StevenHarperUK> geser: where is the .la I can't see it
[17:09] <geser> StevenHarperUK: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/avant-window-navigator-0708230320/avant-window-navigator-0.1.2+bzr20070822/debian/libawn-dev.install
[17:10] <geser> StevenHarperUK: there is no libawn.so which is usually inside the -dev package? (needed for linking)
[17:12] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Are you packaging avant-window-navigator?
[17:13] <Hobbsee> ScottK: there you go.  now you can send.
[17:13] <StevenHarperUK> ScottK: no
[17:14] <StevenHarperUK> geser: thats not mine
[17:14] <ScottK> OK.  I was confused by geser's link.
[17:14] <StevenHarperUK> geser: I'm packaging easycrypt
[17:14] <StevenHarperUK> me too
[17:15] <StevenHarperUK> I think I have done Everything that's been asked of me in REVU
[17:15] <StevenHarperUK> I must admit im getting a bit frustrated with it.
[17:21] <TurtleBeoulve> does anyone know where to get instructions on how to reduce the size of a vista partition in a dual boot configuration and give that space to the ubuntu filesystem
[17:21] <Hobbsee> thsi is *not* #ubuntu
[17:21] <Hobbsee> TurtleBeoulve: ^
[17:22] <Hobbsee> apparently mistaking #ubuntu-motu for #ubuntu is an easy mistake.  or something.  *shakes head*
[17:23] <Hobbsee> (he just got told to go to #ubuntu from -desktop)
[17:26] <afflux> can we sync these changes from debian, if the debian package builds fine in a hardy pbuilder? Only real change is the build-dependency on debhelper being 5.0.37.2 in debian and 5.0.38 in the ubuntu package. http://dad.dunnewind.net/zeroinstall-injector/zeroinstall-injector_0.29-0ubuntu1.patch
[17:29] <geser> afflux: I'd sync it
[17:30] <afflux> geser, alright. I'll file a request then.
[17:30] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Do you want cc on the IRC log?
[17:31] <geser> ScottK: did you trim Hobbsee's '!' ?
[17:31] <ScottK> I did.  I trimmed the other conversations too.
[17:33] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: I have the build log for scapy
[17:33] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1328/
[17:34] <Hobbsee> ScottK: that'd be nice
[17:36] <LaserJock> Adri2000: ping
[17:37]  * santiago-ve Ausente por ahora.
[17:38] <Adri2000> LaserJock: pong
[17:39] <coNP[uni]> Bye MOTUs, see you later
[17:40] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: Looks good.  I'd say you can request a sync as long as you verified that the Ubuntu change is in fact present in the source from Debian.
[17:41] <LaserJock> Adri2000: heah, I just left a comment on that pbuilder-dist bug
[17:42] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Sent.
[17:42] <RainCT> Hobbsee: the problem with debdiff was that interdiff wasn't installed      (not sure if you received this before, IRC disconnected -.-)
[17:42] <ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks for your comment on the pbuilder-dist bug.
[17:43] <Hobbsee> RainCT: i didn't
[17:43] <Hobbsee> RainCT: oh, for u-r-e?  right
[17:43] <blueyed> crimsun: you haven't approved the nomination for bug 149641?
[17:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149641 in logcheck "logcheck fails when auth.log.1.gz missing" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149641
[17:44] <RainCT> Hobbsee: yeh
[17:44] <LaserJock> ScottK: I don't know that I fully know what the  problem is, but I know my scripts worked
[17:44] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: I will check again, but it seems that the patch that fix the bug in the scapy tracker is included in the new version patch
[17:44] <ScottK> LaserJock: Agreed.
[17:44] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: so I will open a sycn request
[17:44] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: Sounds good then.
[17:44] <ScottK> Yes.
[17:45] <ScottK> Ping me with the bug # when you're done.
[17:45] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: ok ;)
[17:45] <norsetto_> Rospo_Zoppo: do you know requestsync?
[17:45] <pkern> Hobbsee: I don't think that flooding the channel is an option.
[17:46] <Hobbsee> pkern: call it mass frustration at someone not listening, or not employing any level of basic thought.
[17:46] <Hobbsee> but i didnt know it was quite that long :)
[17:47] <Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto_: I've already done two of them :)
[17:47] <norsetto_> rospo_the_syncer
[17:47] <Rospo_Zoppo> lol
[17:49] <pkern> LongPointyStick: I already told you patience or silence.
[17:49] <pkern> LongPointyStick: You are not forced to answer, and even if it involves one of your hats it could be handled by someone else.
[17:49] <ScottK> pkern: You haven't been here for the scale of trouble that guy causes.  This is the tail end of months of trouble.
[17:49] <ScottK> pkern: I don't think anyone really has patience for him.
[17:50] <pkern> ScottK: I know.  Now probably she doesn't want to miss the fun so she doesn't use /ignore.
[17:50] <pkern> ScottK: Then silence is the other option.
[17:50] <pkern> ScottK: (Or ban but well... Ignorance is bliss.)
[17:50] <ScottK> Well /ignore doesn't work because then he gives other people bad advice that we get stuck with the results of.
[17:51] <pkern> Ok, then /ban if he taints others.
[17:51] <ScottK> Well that's where we are now.  AFAIK, he may be the first person kicked out of Ubuntu.
[17:51] <pkern> i.e. disrupts the development process
[17:51] <ScottK> Yep.
[17:52] <ScottK> He's already had about 1742 more chances (roughly) that I would have given.
[17:53] <LaserJock> who is this?
[17:53] <ScottK> Kmos
[17:53] <LaserJock> ah
[17:54] <pkern> ubotu: kmos
[17:54] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kmos - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[17:55] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: please can you have a look at the changes? here is the old ubuntu patch http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1331/ and this is the part of the new upstream patch regarding that fix http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1330/
[17:56] <ScottK> Rospo_Zoppo: Looking
[17:56] <Rospo_Zoppo> ScottK: thanks
[17:58] <bluekuja> norsetto_, it seems he agreed about the new nickname
[17:58]  * santiago-ve is back.
[17:59] <RainCT> about bug 157129, it's now the 3th time (iirc) that there's a merge because of dh_iconcache only, should I file a bug about this on Debian?
[17:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157129 in blobwars "Please merge blobwars 1.07-2 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157129
[17:59] <norsetto_> bluekuja: now I'm worried ....
[17:59] <bluekuja> lol
[18:00] <ScottK> rospo_the_syncer: That covers it.
[18:00] <rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: thank you, I wasn't sure at all
[18:01] <rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: now I open the sync request
[18:01] <slangasek> RainCT: um, isn't dh_iconcache the deprecated name?
[18:01] <slangasek> Warning: Please use dh_icons instead. dh_iconcache is going to go away.
[18:01] <slangasek> RainCT: ^^ so that's not a Debian bug, unless you mean that the Debian package isn't using dh_icons either
[18:02] <RainCT> it isn't
[18:02]  * slangasek checks
[18:02] <RainCT> slangasek: so should I change it to dh_icons on the debdiff, and report to Debian?
[18:02] <slangasek> RainCT: ok; then sure, why not file a bug? should be a simple bug to both file and fix :)
[18:02] <geser> pkern: if you are interested http://tinyurl.com/2mcevo (of around 250 reported bugs)
[18:02] <dfiloni> Any REVU admin can sync the keys?
[18:03]  * norsetto_ wonders when dh_iconcache will be finally nuked, and how many packages this will break
[18:12] <blueyed> Can somebody pretty please approve the nomination for gutsy SRU on bug 149641? Without the Gutsy task it does not appear in ubuntu-sru's list and the noise (users complaining) won't get less when waiting longer. The fix is quite simple and taken from upstream/Debian.
[18:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149641 in logcheck "logcheck fails when auth.log.1.gz missing" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149641
[18:12] <blueyed> It would be great if someone even would sponsor the upload right away.. :)
[18:13] <rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: the bug number is 157148
[18:13] <blueyed> Should I ask in ubuntu-devel, because it's a bug in "main"?
[18:16] <siretart> dfiloni: let me check
[18:17] <siretart> dfiloni: syncing now
[18:17] <dfiloni> thanks
[18:18] <zul> blueyed: yes but i think most people are packing right now for uds
[18:20] <oly-> hi, i am creating a package for my application, hopefully to get it into hardy, part of the package uses 3 icon packs, is it okay to include them as tar.gz files inside the deb ?
[18:21] <oly-> and do i just add there licenses to the copyright file ?
[18:21] <ScottK> rospo_the_syncer: Looking
[18:22] <rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: I've done the build with a hardy pbuilder
[18:22] <ScottK> Good.
[18:27] <oly-> does anyone know where i might find this kind of information,
[18:27] <ScottK> rospo_the_syncer: Ack'ed to the archive.  Thank you for looking into this.  Please see how I've marked the package at http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php.  You should both do that and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (I've already sponsored it, so no need this time).
[18:30] <rospo_the_syncer> ScottK: I see, thank you
[18:48] <rospo_the_syncer> bye all
[18:56] <pkern> geser: !missing-feature negative karma
[19:01] <man-di> bluekuja: thanks for the patch for libapache-mod-jk, will do an upload to sid later today
[19:03] <pkern> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-voice-control/0.2-0ubuntu4 <-- What the heck.
[19:04] <pkern> Oh well.  Only 1.10 available.
[19:04] <pkern> nm
[19:18] <bluekuja> man-di, you rock ;)
[19:18] <man-di> bluekuja: I just like bug reports with patches ;-)
[19:18] <bluekuja> man-di, lol, same here
[19:18] <bluekuja> :)
[19:21] <Kmos> can someone look at bug 157160 ?
[19:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157160 in ddclient "Please merge ddclient 3.7.3-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157160
[19:21] <Kmos> if the debdiff is ok ?
[19:21] <imbrandon> pkern, ScottK : ping
[19:22] <imbrandon> yall round ?
[19:23] <RainCT> Kmos: shouldn't the changelog be against Debian's package?
[19:23] <RainCT> *changelog = debdiff
[19:27] <Kmos> RainCT: ups.. made mistake
[19:27] <Kmos> RainCT: thanks
[19:28] <RainCT> Kmos: np
[19:28] <Kmos> new debdiff uploaded
[19:49] <pkern> imbrandon: Yes.
[19:52] <ScottK> imbrandon: Pong
[19:53] <imbrandon> ScottK,  one sec
[19:53]  * ScottK refills his coffee.  brb
[19:55] <ScottK> Back
[19:56] <imbrandon> ScottK,  got soem time at 2100 to help field some MOTU Q & A questions , it will probably be a busy session and i could use some more experinced MOTU's
[19:56] <imbrandon> some*
[19:56] <ScottK> imbrandon: Sorry, no.
[19:56] <imbrandon> ok no worries, thought i would ask
[19:57]  * imbrandon preps his pastebin for the patching session , bbiab
[19:59] <LeRoutier> Hello
[20:00] <LeRoutier> Who should I ask for package removal (for Hardy) ?
[20:01] <imbrandon> Scottk pkern, oh wow, my bad anyhow the session isnt untill tomarrow, i was totaly looking at my computer date wrong
[20:01] <zul> w
[20:01] <zul> oops..
[20:01] <imbrandon> LeRoutier, file a bug with a valid reason
[20:02] <LeRoutier> ok, I'll do that. Against which product ? Ubuntu ?
[20:02] <imbrandon> against the source package iirc
[20:02] <LeRoutier> well, it is orphaned
[20:02] <ScottK> Yes, and?
[20:03] <LeRoutier> I'll be maintaining swfdec, but only 0.5 branch.  0.3 doesn't install actually on Ubuntu Gutsy AMD64 and both 0.3 & 0.4 are far outdated
[20:04] <imbrandon> just because its orphaned in debian dosent qualify for removal , someone may pick it up , now the other reasons you state maybe valid
[20:04] <LeRoutier> imbrandon, 0.3 & 0.4 have no reason to live
[20:04] <LeRoutier> 0.5 was the first to release decode interesting flash content
[20:05] <LeRoutier> release => really
[20:05] <ScottK> Do they have any reverse dependencies?
[20:06] <LeRoutier> gst-plugin-swfdec-0.8 for 0.3
[20:06] <LeRoutier> none that I know for 0.4
[20:06] <LeRoutier> and gstreamer 0.8 is old crap too
[20:07] <LeRoutier> looks like gst-plugin-swfdec-0.8 is not even in Gutsy
[20:07] <LeRoutier> so, both of them are totally unused
[20:09] <ScottK> OK.  Then file a removal bug for them.  There is a discussion on the wiki of what's needed (don't ask me where, it was just reorganized).
[20:09] <LeRoutier> ok, doing so
[20:09] <LeRoutier> thanks
[20:12] <man-di> bluekuja: have you tested the libapache-mod-jk patch? I ask becuase mod_jk says: "These workers should not appear in the worker.list property!" and thats the case then.
[20:23] <pwnguin> its too bad all of today's openweek topics dont interest me =/
[21:02] <LeRoutier> bugs #157204 and bug #157202 filled : request for removal
[21:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157204 in swfdec0.4 "swfdec0.4 should be removed from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157204
[21:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157202 in swfdec0.3 "swfdec0.3 should be removed from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157202
[21:03] <LeRoutier> Should requests for sponsored upload be filed as a bug too or asked here ?
[21:06] <idiot> where do i go to ask for an update to the repository for a particular package?
[21:08] <norsetto> idiot: you mean you want that we update a package which is in our repositories?
[21:08] <idiot> yeah, imagemagick is kind of old...would be nice to have it be the newest...
[21:08] <idiot> not me personally
[21:08] <norsetto> !info imagemagick
[21:08] <ubotu> imagemagick: Image manipulation programs. In component main, is optional. Version 7:6.2.4.5.dfsg1-2ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 722 kB, installed size 3156 kB
[21:09] <idiot> 6.2.4 is kind of old, newest is 6.3.6
[21:09] <norsetto> idiot: thats the version we have now
[21:09] <idiot> yeah, i know...
[21:09] <pwnguin> 6.2.4 was in etch
[21:09] <norsetto> idot: which is what they have in debian at the moment
[21:09] <pwnguin> (and sarge backports)
[21:10] <norsetto> idiot: so, your only chance is to file a bug report in debian/ubuntu asking for an upgrade
[21:10] <pwnguin> idiot: file a bug. it'll get marked wishlist, but at least someone looking for an example "new version upstream" might find it
[21:11] <idiot> how do packages get updated normally?  someone files a bug report for each update?
[21:11] <slangasek> hopefully whoever looks at it takes into consideration that imagemagick has poor library ABI handling
[21:12] <LeRoutier> No MOTU to upload one of my packages to Gutsy updates ?
[21:13] <pwnguin> idiot: debian packages often have a watch file. the Debian maintainer (each package has one) can use this to drop in new source and push out to unstable. ubuntu sort of forks unstable every release, so most packges get updated without much effort from ubuntu
[21:13] <LeRoutier> Package already in my PPA
[21:13] <norsetto> LeRoutier: you should follow the SRU process
[21:14] <norsetto> LeRoutier: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
[21:14] <LeRoutier> k, thanks, reading it now
[21:14] <idiot> where should i file this bug report?
[21:14] <norsetto> idiot: https://launchpad.net
[21:14] <cbx33> hey hey peeps
[21:14] <cbx33> long time eh?
[21:15] <norsetto> idiot: and email to the debian bts
[21:16] <idiot> yeah, i'm lookin at the bug reports, someones already asked for an update to 6.3.5
[21:16] <norsetto> idiot: for the latter, info here: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
[21:16] <norsetto> idiot: bug number?
[21:17] <idiot> 110178
[21:17] <norsetto> bug 110178
[21:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110178 in imagemagick "MASTER: Please update imagemagick to 6.3.5 version" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110178
[21:17] <idiot> well, think that pretty much settles it...
[21:17] <norsetto> well, there is also a bug in debian, so, nothing more to be done for you
[21:18] <idiot> yeah, not big pain for me to download source, compile and install, just thought i would be helpful and suggest adding it to the repository
[21:19] <norsetto> idiot: sure, thx for asking
[21:21] <norsetto> yippie, I have an hardy lpia chroot
[21:21]  * norsetto wonders what is there to be happy about
[21:23] <oly-> any one around that could help me with some questions, about getting my program ready to go into one of the ubuntu repositories
[21:25] <ajmitch> morning
[21:26]  * ajmitch sees there was some excitement here overnight
[21:27] <jpatrick> even ajmitch
[21:28] <geser> Hi ajmitch
[21:28] <RainCT> good night
[21:29] <norsetto> ajmitch: nowadays seems to be the norm
[21:29] <norsetto> ajmitch: sorry, nowanights seems to be the norm
[21:31] <ajmitch> such a happy, smiling place
[21:34] <jpatrick> ajmitch: I asked earlier if I could be added as a reviewer on revu, don't know if you got it :)
[21:34] <oly-> is my best bet to upload my package to REVU to get comments, rather than ask questions here ?
[21:35] <lamego> oly-, if you really initiating, save yourself from REVU :P
[21:36] <lamego> it is not as interactive as asking here
[21:36] <LeRoutier> SRU Bug #157211 and bug #157212 filled
[21:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157211 in swfdec0.5 "SRU - Update from 0.5.1 to 0.5.3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157211
[21:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157212 in swfdec-mozilla "SRU - Update from 0.5.1 to 0.5.3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157212
[21:36] <oly-> okay, its my first package but i have questions about licensing in particular,
[21:36] <oly-> all the code is under gnu license, is my best bet to upload my package to REVU to get comments, rather than ask questions here ? which are icon packs under other licensesbut i have 3 tar files in the package
[21:37] <oly-> all the code is under gnu license, but i have 3 tar files which are icon packs under other licenses
[21:38] <oly-> sorry must have hit up arrow on last post :p
[21:38] <oly-> do i list all the licenses in the COPYING file
[21:38] <lamego> debian/copyright
[21:38] <ajmitch> jpatrick: have you passed all the requisite tests?
[21:38] <lamego> you are not expected to change COPYING
[21:38] <jpatrick> ajmitch: are those GPG + MOTU, then yes
[21:39] <imbrandon> moins ajmitch, yea lots of !!!!
[21:39] <oly-> and should i include tar files in my package
[21:39] <lamego> oly-, if they are required, and if they met an acceptable license, yes
[21:40] <oly-> okay they are icon packs 2 under creative commons and the 3rd under gnu license
[21:41] <oly-> lamego, your right with the file i meant copyright file
[21:41] <oly-> do i just list the licenses that the tar files use then, and the license the code uses
[21:42] <ajmitch> jpatrick: I don't see the right amount of funds in my bank though
[21:42] <jpatrick> lol
[21:42] <ajmitch> I presume it's your ubuntu.com address?
[21:43] <jpatrick> it's @kubuntu.org
[21:43] <ajmitch> ok, so at least a password is set there
[21:43] <ajmitch> ok, done
[21:44] <jpatrick> thanks
[21:45] <ajmitch> go wild & review
[21:47] <jpatrick> I'm on it
[21:47] <ajmitch> yay, minions!
[21:48] <imbrandon> :)
[21:49] <imbrandon> pwnguin, why dosen cymor want to use 7.04 ?
[21:49] <pwnguin> i have no fucking clue
[21:49]  * imbrandon rolls eyes *
[21:50] <ajmitch> ?
[21:50] <pwnguin> maybe point out a bug thats in feisty but not gutsy
[21:50] <pwnguin> such as, dm-crypt
[21:50] <ajmitch> if someone doesn't want to update to gutsy, that's their choice
[21:51] <pwnguin> context: kclug wants to hand out linux. cymor wants to hand out 7.04 because 7.10 is too new
[21:51] <imbrandon> ajmitch, its a member of our lug burning cd's to hand out at a conf in a few days
[21:51] <ajmitch> then that's another matter, and he needs to be hurt
[21:51] <ajmitch> gently
[21:51] <imbrandon> lol
[21:52] <ajmitch> now I know that gutsy isn't the most solid release we've had, but it's not completely bugridden
[21:53] <imbrandon> well that thinking it should be either 6.06 or 7.10, if 7.10 is tooo new
[21:53] <imbrandon> imho
[21:54] <pwnguin> ive already said as much
[21:54] <ajmitch> I wouldn't hand out 6.06 on cd
[21:54] <ScottK> NTFS support by default is very useful.  I've used Gutsy Live CDs more than once with Klamav/Clamav for scanning Windows PCs
[21:55] <pwnguin> anyways, it would help if you would hold this conversation in the place where the people who need to hear your opinion are
[21:55] <ajmitch> I'd use 6.06.2 when it's out, for certain systems
[21:55] <lamego> I had the idea ClamAV only scanned, does it clean also ?
[21:55] <ajmitch> hm, almost time to troll & heckle nixternal?
[21:56] <ScottK> Klamav does.  I'm not sure of the exact functional allocation between Klamav and Clamav
[21:56] <nixternal> Tonio is doing it today
[21:56] <ajmitch> aw
[21:56]  * ajmitch didn't even take the opportunity to troll the other day :(
[21:57] <lamego> ScottK, are you sure ? KDE seems to be a KDE frontend for ClamAV
[21:58] <LeRoutier> isn't KDE a virus ?
[21:58]  * LeRoutier runs
[21:58] <ScottK> Klamav is a KDE frontend for Clamav.  I'm sure that using Klamav, I expunged stuff.
[21:58]  * ScottK makes notes about who gets no more help...
[21:58] <lamego> and ClamAV does not clean, it is an advanced pattern finder, using a virus DB for the search
[21:58] <imbrandon> imho Hardy is going to be the end all, its got tons on great stuff comming building on 7.10 pluss a LTS
[21:59] <pwnguin> there hasnt even been a uds
[21:59] <pwnguin> however
[21:59] <pwnguin> nm .7 ftw
[21:59] <pwnguin> oh, i guess you kubuntu guys are excited about kde4
[21:59] <imbrandon> ugh
[21:59] <imbrandon> yea
[22:00]  * imbrandon is in gnome/fluxbox , i just use kde apps
[22:00] <imbrandon> lol
[22:00] <pwnguin> i thought you were a kubnutu dev
[22:00] <imbrandon> yes i am, i'm just on a slow computer
[22:00] <pwnguin> oh right hahaahhaaha
[22:01] <ajmitch> nixternal: you're bad
[22:01] <nixternal> :)
[22:01] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[22:11]  * norsetto goes to have a drink while mail-notification builds
[22:13] <oly-> okay, i am seriously confused, i wanted to release my program as gnu, but it uses the python ssl library does this mean i can not ??
[22:13] <oly-> gnu gpl i mean
[22:14] <pwnguin> you can explicitly make an exception
[22:14] <pwnguin> it won't be strictly GNU GPL
[22:14] <oly-> okay, but whats that mean i need todo ?
[22:15] <oly-> do i include the gnu license, or do i use a modified version ?
[22:16] <oly-> or do i put something in the copyright file saying about the exception
[22:16] <pwnguin> maybe look at some other projects. anyone know of a project with an ssl exception?
[22:16] <oly-> yeah that would be helpful
[22:17] <oly-> a python one in particular would be useful
[22:18] <pwnguin> maybe post to the mailling list, or wait for the openweek sessions to finish up for today
[22:19] <oly-> okay, will do can hang around for a while anyway
[22:20] <oly-> its all quite confusing but thxs for helping, at least i know i can still use same license still just need to figure out how to make the exception
[22:28] <imbrandon> hrm i wish docfs and picasafs were public
[22:29] <ajmitch> why is that?
[22:29] <Nafallo> docfs?
[22:36] <imbrandon> docfs fuse fs for docs.google.com
[22:36] <imbrandon> and picasiawebfs same for picasa web
[22:37] <imbrandon> both made for google apps , by google and demo'd when they released fuse for Mac but not released , only macfuse was
[22:45] <norsetto> heya persia, how is it?
[22:45] <persia> Hi norsetto.  Well here, but early.  For you?
[22:46] <norsetto> persia: well too, but late ;-)
[22:46] <persia> :)
[22:53] <lamego> who was playing with azureus and iced tea one of this days ?
[22:53] <persia> lamego: jdong
[22:53] <lamego> do you remember the results ? was it stable ?
[22:54] <jdong> lamego: stable on all but amd64, bug filed about icedtea/amd64 already
[22:54] <lamego> jdong, thanks
[22:55] <jdong> sure thing
[23:14] <norsetto> bye all
[23:18] <khatahn> what has happened to xmms-flac package? it was in feisty, but it isn't in gutsy anymore.
[23:19] <Amaranth> do we still have xmms?
[23:19] <khatahn> luckily yes :)
[23:19] <Amaranth> I wonder why, no one else does
[23:20] <Amaranth> iirc xmms-flac was built from some flac library and debian was disabling that so they could remove xmms
[23:20] <khatahn> i still haven't found a better player. xmms does all that i need, and is very lightweight.
[23:20] <khatahn> oh
[23:22] <Amaranth> this is just what i remember from a mailing list and/or bug report probably 9 months ago
[23:22] <TheMuso> Well there is the fact that xmms uses a legacy GUI toolkit library.
[23:22] <TheMuso> i.e gtk 1.2
[23:23] <Amaranth> TheMuso: And is completely abandoned
[23:23] <TheMuso> Amaranth: Aye.
[23:23] <Amaranth> and was removed from _slackware_ in march
[23:24] <Amaranth> gentoo dropped it a year ago
[23:25] <khatahn> and it still beats all the other players
[23:25] <Amaranth> rhythmbox ftw ;)
[23:25] <TheMuso> mpd FTW. :p
[23:26] <khatahn> i don't like the music library style players, winamps style is the only one that works for me
[23:26] <khatahn> i guess i should go to audacity, but it's usually horribly out of date in ubuntu
[23:26] <TheMuso> Well, each to their own, but afaik there are others like xmms2, or beep media player.
[23:26] <slangasek> wait, you'll use xmms which is a gtk1.2 player, but you don't want to use audacity because it's "horribly out of date"? :)
[23:27] <khatahn> i think beep (or bmpx nowadays) has gone the music library way too
[23:27] <khatahn> slangasek: yes, because i can have the latest version of xmms, but not the latest (or even fairly current) version of audacity =)
[23:27] <khatahn> i think that makes perfect sense ;)
[23:28] <TheMuso> Audacity is an editor.
[23:28] <khatahn> err.. audacious
[23:28] <slangasek> makes no sense at all to me
[23:29] <nxvl> when i build apache with pbuilder it generates many .deb's, is there any way i can only generate apache-common for example?
[23:30] <TheMuso> nxvl: no.
[23:31] <khatahn> slangasek: well, audacious is probably also heavier than xmms, like all the other recent players. and my machine is ancient.
[23:31] <pwnguin> well, you migth be able to edit the rules file to not build them, but pbuilder alone won't cut it
[23:31] <nxvl> TheMuso: mm, ok
[23:35] <TheMuso> Anyway, I'dbetter get offline and finish getting ready.
[23:37] <ajmitch> bye TheMuso :)
[23:37] <ajmitch> have fun