[00:00] Yeh you need MOTU's to Advocate it, then it gets added to Hardy..... [00:00] who do they advocate to? [00:01] Its part of the MOTU system [00:01] Check that link I sent [00:01] On the REVu system [00:02] They check the package, then if they think it should be on Hardy they mark it, after you get (i think its 2) enough it gets OK'd to be on Hardy... [00:02] I think, if I read all the Docs right [00:02] advocate sounds like the wrong word there. more like approve [00:02] Yeh I know, its the wording on the REVU site [00:03] I didn't choose it [00:17] anyone has a good sample of a web package ? [00:20] that handle the stuff with apache the debian way [00:20] phpmyadmin ? [00:20] good night everybody. [00:20] cu [00:25] evening [00:25] 'lo zul, how's the baby? [00:25] crimsun: pretty good just had to change a diaper thanks for asking [00:25] cool :-) [00:27] Damn Debian can be a PITA :-( [00:27] Heya zul, crimsun [00:31] heya bddebian [00:33] hi barry === rob1 is now known as rob [00:48] crimsun: Hey! Long time no see! [00:49] soren: heya, how are things? [00:49] crimsun: Things are great! Are you back or just stopping by? [00:50] soren: the latter [00:51] crimsun: Ok. How's the not-so-new-anymore job? [00:51] soren: hectic, unfortunately [00:51] on the upside, I get to do neat things with Ubuntu. [00:51] Oh, really? [00:52] yeah. It's nice to finally "be on the other end" of sorts. :-) [00:52] I forget.. Who are you working for? [00:52] Everyone who contributes to Ubuntu deserves a great round of applause. [00:53] soren: the US gov't [00:53] And they use Ubuntu? Wicked. [00:53] yep. :-) [00:55] hello soren, crimsun [00:55] 'lo ajmitch [00:55] Hey, ajmitch. [00:55] soren: how goes UDS preparations? :) [00:55] crimsun: You coming down to Boston? [00:56] soren: I'll be there Sunday & Monday, but I have to return to work Monday night. [00:56] ajmitch: I've been a bit tied up since release, actually, so I'm lagging a bit. [00:56] ajmitch, that reminds me [00:56] crimsun: Cool, we'll finally meet! [00:56] zul: it does? [00:56] i have to write the XenInHardy thingy [00:56] yes, you do [00:58] ajmitch: I've got 14 hours of travel time, 9 hours of battery, vim, and a copy of the relevant specs. I should be able to get a bit done :) [00:58] soren: only 14 hours? that's quite short [00:59] soren: I look forward to hearing of great thigns from the server team :) [00:59] soren: and those quality in flight movies [01:00] ajmitch: Yeah, I think it's 14 hours. Three flights and about an hour and a half of waiting each time. [01:00] zul: Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? [01:00] soren: a bit, i never seen a good movie on a airplane [01:01] zul: I've only traveled far enough to have in flight movies once, and that was with Singapore Airlines, which is awesome. [01:01] zul: air nz isn't too bad [01:01] soren: BA had some pretty good movies when I was a kid [01:01] but that's because we're a long way from anywhere, so movies are required [01:02] true, they dont play peter jackson movies all the time? :) [01:02] mmm, brain dead ;) [01:03] Meet the feebles ftw! [01:03] hehe [01:04] brain dead was freaking hilarious [01:05] heh. Up to about an hour or half hour ago, the gibbon was creeping up in the stats. Now, suddenly, the gibbon is giving the werewolf quite a drubbing. :) [01:06] I still have no clue how he got that old guy to pay for the LoTR series. I can only imagine it must have beeen something like: "Hi, I'm Peter Jackson. I want you to pay a zillion dollars so that I can make a film out of the LoTR series." "Mmmmmkay... What have you done before?" "Oh, I've got a tape right here! " "Oh, make it stop, i'll give you anything you want!" [01:06] ...or thereabouts. [01:07] didnt he do that movie before lotr to prove that he can do a good job to the executive producers? [01:07] he did manage a couple of serious films beforehand [01:07] like the frighteners [01:08] This might be a stupid question, but what does the werewolf represent in the gibbon vs. werewolf thing? [01:09] Is Debian using a tmpfs mounted /var/run yet? [01:09] An "actual" werewolf or some other distro? [01:09] soren: Fedora 8 [01:09] someone should make a screencast on packaging with pbuilder [01:10] Solarion: How so? [01:11] Oh. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-commits/2007-October/msg05258.html [01:20] goodnight everyone! [01:20] 'night soren [01:21] 'night, crimsun. See you Sunday! [01:27] night soren [02:23] imbrandon: can you send me the url again [02:27] http://domsch.com/pictures/summer_2007/large/02-00070.html [02:27] view of London from the Canonical office tower [02:28] mdomsch, cool [02:32] zul http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/zul.patch [02:32] that one? ^ [02:32] that would be the one [02:33] kk [02:42] Can someone decide if bug 149641 is worth a SRU and accept the Gutsy task in this case please. A patch for -proposed is attached already. [02:42] Launchpad bug 149641 in logcheck "logcheck fails when auth.log.1.gz missing" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149641 [02:42] * persia registers a gutsy task [02:42] blueyed: Does this also affect any previous release? [02:43] Thanks, persia. I'm not sure, I'll check this tomorrow, ok? [02:43] (especially Dapper: I don't think we get new installs for Edgy or Feisty these days) [02:43] blueyed: OK. Dapper is most important. [02:43] Please create a Dapper task and assign it to me. [02:44] I'm almost in favour of not touching Dapper at this point [02:44] blueyed: I don't want to create a task unless we know it is required. [02:45] crimsun: Why? I suspect we'll have more than a few things we'll need to patch for upgrades to Hardy anyway... [02:46] blueyed: My apologies: it's main. I can't approve the nomination :( [02:46] crimsun, i'm kinda of the same mind except to make LTS to LTS upgrades [02:46] Hello! [02:46] persia: there's a bit of noise in that report [I'm not in a position to read it carefully currently], so it's not immediately obvious what the simplest correct fix is . [02:48] crimsun: just look at the attached patch. [02:48] It's taken from debian. [02:48] blueyed: yes, I can easily ACK that. I'm referring to the noise in the Ubuntu bug report. [02:49] crimsun, persia: dapper does not seem to be affected. [02:49] blueyed: Thanks for checking. [02:49] (logcheck-1.2.42ubuntu1) [02:49] blueyed: ok [02:50] * blueyed => bed [02:51] crimsun: I see your point. Looking through the bug, there may be other issues, and checking for the existence of the file may not be a complete solution. [03:08] Well apparently trying to go through Debian for new upstreams is a pointless excercise [03:13] bddebian: Painful, but not necessarily pointless. Keep picking on pkern and see how far you get. [03:14] ScottK: bddebian's problem was that ari was involved in the discussion [03:14] ScottK: Well I would argue pointless. pkern is 1 man. [03:14] Ah. [03:14] Yeah, but that one man can upload stuff. [03:14] Not without getting shot ;-) [03:15] The trick is low profile. Get stuff uploaded, but don't get noticed. [03:16] bddebian: Don't let either IRC or any specific individual maintainer bother you. Just hit the people who are chasing the package directly. [03:16] persia: I have e-mailed the maintainers directly [03:16] bddebian: Ah. My condolences then. [03:17] To a degree I understand their point but the "I'd rather let the package rot than accept work from a no-nothing MOTU" attitude is just irritating [03:19] I guess I've been lucky then. [03:21] bddebian: Umm.. That's actively anti-useful behaviour on the part of the maintainer. Is it logged somewhere public? There are plenty of interested parties who disagree. [03:22] persia: I'm not looking to start, trouble I was just trying to get some new upstreams in to debian, hence Ubuntu [03:24] bddebian: which package are you talking about ? [03:24] (just curiosity) [03:24] bddebian: I don't mean to encourage trouble, it's just that in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuForDebianDevelopers, we ask Debian Developers with issues with Ubuntu member behaviour to please raise them to our governance structures. Debian's parallel processes are not as transparent, but they do exist. [03:26] proppy: I was just working through the upgrade bugs on LP. pybliographer, libdc0/valknut, etc [03:27] bddebian: new upstream version of what? [03:27] * ScottK is starting to suspect that slangasek highlights on debian. [03:27] I could do :) [03:28] but it was just within reach of two screens'-worth of scrollback in this case :) [03:29] * slangasek reads down. aha, package list. :) [03:29] slangasek: as I just said, in this case, pybliographer, libdc0/valknut, and I was starting to consider pgadmin3 [03:29] hmm, pybliographer; IIRC you're likely to have an uphill push there because of the maintainer's low activity level more than anything [03:29] Anybody heard of losing power management settings for "on battery" in 7.10 after today's updates? As in, the tab is completely gone, and the user can only set a profile for AC? [03:30] libdc0/valknut are package names I recognize and associate with "release management pain"... :) [03:30] bddebian: anyway, none of those seem to be anything I can be much direct help with :/ [03:31] slangasek: Thanks but I didn't expect that you could. I just tire of the Ubuntu doesn't give shit but when I try, I get shit. It's getting a little old. [03:33] bddebian: It depends on individuals. If a specific person in Debian doesn't want to cooperate, consider just uploading to Ubuntu. If the maintainer is willing to cooperate, it's heaps easier to work together. Don't paint all of Debian with the tar brush. [03:34] Aye fair enough and I'm not targetting the maintainers because I haven't gotten anything back from them yet [03:38] * TheMuso is going to try to push changes in our packages to Debian this cycle, rather than just merge the package. [03:38] bddebian: no matter what improvements might be made in community relations between Debian and Ubuntu, the reality is that there's always going to be some level of tension over individual package maintainership; that exists /within/ Debian too, it just tends to be cast differently when some of the people are "associated" with Ubuntu [03:39] bddebian: so I think it's important to some degree to recognize that this tension will exist and accept it [03:39] TheMuso: hurray! :) [03:39] * persia encourages and supports TheMuso [03:39] TheMuso: That is what I am attempting to do [03:40] slangasek: Understood but what do I do? not do the work? Jump Debian for Ubuntu in new upstream versions? I'm not going to do the work only for it to get ignored, that's pointless. [03:41] bddebian: If there's a long delay, or resistance, I'd recommend uploading -0ubuntu1, and adding a BTS entry describing any specific issues you resolved when merging the new upstream. [03:42] persia: Aye, but how long is long? ;-) [03:44] bddebian: I usually give it a week or so for most things. If it's blocking me in another way, I might not wait for "long", but I'll be sure to file a sync request as soon as I can. [03:45] But if the tarballs don't match we can't sync until the next new version :-) [03:46] bddebian: Well, only if it needs repacking: upstream tarballs should all be the same. That's a special, and unfortunate case. Perhaps a version number like 2.7.14.really.2.8.0-0ubuntu1? It depends on what you expect to happen next. [03:47] I expect that I should probably stop working on all this crap :-) [03:48] 2.8.0~reallynotdebian-0ubuntu1 [03:49] Ah. Right. ~ Perhaps 2.8.0~ubuntu-0ubuntu1, just to not point specifically at Debian. [03:50] 2.8.0~arimademedoit-0ubuntu1 [03:50] * imbrandon returns [03:50] ajmitch: hahaha [03:52] 2.8.0~idiotmotuontheloose-0ubuntu1 [03:52] bddebian: There you go. You can safely upload that, and nobody should complain :) [04:15] bddebian: you do whatever you think is best, just like everyone else? :) It's always worth making the effort to let the Debian maintainer know about your updated packages, even if they don't accept them or act on them in a suitable timeframe. [04:15] Is it ok to work in a hardy chroot now ? [04:16] poor mjg59, trying to explain power management to people :) [04:16] (for hardy package) [04:16] proppy: sure, it won't be much different from gutsy yet [04:16] bddebian: you can't control whether Debian accepts the update, after all, but that's IMHO not a reason not to try, or a reason to keep Ubuntu from having the new version [04:16] * TheMuso chuckles at the goings on in -devel. [04:16] ajmitch: ok, cause I heard the toolchain was broken [04:17] earlier [04:17] oh it could be, but that's why you have fun in a chroot [04:17] ajmitch: by work I mean do packaging stuff [04:17] lets debootstrap ! [04:18] my fist hardy vserver :) [04:18] proppy: May be safer to make a gutsy chroot, and dist-upgrade. [04:18] But debootstrap could work. [04:19] TheMuso: thanks for the hint [04:21] is there any work ongoing on a vserver enable kernel package ? [04:21] (for ubuntu) [04:21] * ajmitch needs to clear some space on /home before he can start doing much [04:23] Whats vserver? [04:23] TheMuso: partitioning virtualizer for Linux [04:23] TheMuso: a la BSD Jails [04:23] by partitioning, I mean splitting your execution environment into indivudual independent cells [04:24] not disk partitioning :) [04:24] hrm [04:25] i think i have another full system here , i might try to setup a buildd that i can localy dput to, anyone ever tried it ? [04:25] wanna-build and ummm what else ? [04:26] lol [04:26] jdong: ah ok. [04:27] TheMuso: basicly it adds process management to chroot [04:27] TheMuso: so you can stop and start a chroot and all the process inside it [04:28] . [04:28] fifo's cannot be read by more than one "receiver", right? [04:28] Ah ok. [04:28] jdong: Hense the name. [04:28] I'm looking for a Rube Goldberg libnotify ping-queue... [04:28] jdong: But I could be wrong. [04:28] UNIX domain sockets could manage multiple connections right? [04:29] and use filesystem permissions? [04:29] I think so. [04:30] ok, I'll have to play with that this weekend then :) [04:30] the ultimate multiplexing kerberos-authenticated IRC ping multicaster over TCP! [04:30] rofl [04:31] !jdong [04:31] jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK! [04:32] hehe [04:32] lol [04:33] :) [04:41] ajmitch, have a laugh http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=590576 [04:42] err hAve A lAugh [04:44] imbrandon: ROFL [04:44] that is a hilarious reason why he can't write a :D [04:45] I almost feel sorry for him [04:45] * jdong posted a reply with a workaround for posterity [05:01] imbrandon: If you manage to set that up, please document it on the wiki :) [05:02] RAOF, yea i was thinking that too [05:03] i'm throwing togather the parts now to see if i can get an "extra" pc to boot [05:03] Seveas was (is?) writing a buildd addition to falcon at one point. I was kinda waiting for that. [05:03] i only have a 8gb drive to toss at it , but it might work to document the process [05:03] RAOF, yea, it was at my request ;) [05:03] hehe [05:03] That sounds enough for a buildd, I think. [05:04] My schroots only have ~... 5 gb? I think. [05:04] imbrandon: Dktrkranz was also working on debomatic, which is designed as a simple local/remote pbuilder-driven buildd. From what I've seen, it's a little easier to use, at a cost of robustness and flexibility [05:04] well if i keep the os small yea [05:04] and only build for one release [05:04] persia, yea this is more to learn than to actualy use [05:05] otherwise i would probably be using falcon 2.x [05:05] :) [05:05] imbrandon: In that case, wanna-build is probably the way to go :) [05:05] hello mr StevenK [05:06] * StevenK waves [05:06] so what country are you in now? [05:06] Still .au [05:06] StevenK, you makin uds ? [05:06] imbrandon: I fly out tomorrow [05:06] cool [05:07] fun [05:07] the countless hours of being trapped in the seat [05:07] My phone line at home has been killed, so ENODSL [05:07] as it looks right now i probably wont make it ( yet again ) , i started gathering $$ too late [05:07] painful [05:07] ouch [05:07] imbrandon: find a floor to crash on :) [05:08] ajmitch, thats still a possibilty [05:08] I wanted them to fix it by close of business today, but they keep telling me tomorrow. :-( [05:08] doesn't look likely that I'll be there, somehow [05:08] StevenK, so how are you online ? [05:08] imbrandon: Cup-and-string? :-P [05:08] hehe [05:08] Ah, _Telstra_ [05:09] packet-over-pigon [05:09] Yes. [05:09] I will Get Them [05:09] StevenK: You might try carrier pigeos. Latency is a bit higher, but they're higher-bandwidth than cup & string. [05:09] persia: but that's what telstra use [05:09] lol [05:09] (I'm at uni, using a web based IRC client) [05:09] ajmitch: Ah. That explains everything. [05:10] ouch, want a shell on my server for irssi ? [05:10] StevenK, ^ [05:10] You know, the only way out of this damned network is by ssh'ing to a .debian.org machine on port 443 [05:11] hahahah painfull [05:11] i could probably put sshd on 443 also for a bit [05:11] it does nothing but run the db for ubuntuwire.com atm [05:12] Personally, I'd prefer my connection at home to work. :-) [05:12] ( gentoo box ) /me ducks [05:12] I miss my e-mail. [05:12] okie, well offer stands if you need it, lemme know [05:12] Sure, thanks. [05:12] StevenK: don't you have a job now ? [05:13] lifeless: Cut due to a fault, not non-payment [05:13] :> [05:17] StevenK: Ouch, that is painful. [05:24] Launchpad is offline for scheduled maintenance. We should be back soon. [05:24] :(((( [05:24] That explains it. Thanks for the update. [05:26] Typical. I claw my way back onto the Internet, and Launchpad is offline. [05:27] lol [05:27] I was only using it 10 minutes ago. [05:29] I was posting a comment [05:29] it's very annoying [05:30] I guess I will post it using that old technology called mail instead :) [05:39] ugh time to dig up some diffrent hardware. that was only a p100 [05:41] now they were considered fast not so long ago [05:41] yea but that might be a bit painfull for a buildd [05:41] Ouch. [05:42] if i take those db's off that vps and put them directly on my webserver i can reinstall with ubuntu 7.04 and dist-upgrade from there in minutes [05:42] i think i might do that [05:42] the vps will work well enough [05:43] and ubuntu 7.04 is a premade image so reinstall will only take 5 minutes [05:43] for the provider [05:43] and considering the site only gets 4k hits a day between all the domains i doubt the seperate db server is doing me any good [05:44] * imbrandon googles wanna-build a bit [06:03] imbrandon: what about trying out that Sugar/olpc stuff on older hardware ;0 [06:03] i could, after the buildd hehe [06:03] is it avail for general use ? === zachy is now known as zakame [06:08] so, uh, i can push stuff to hardy now? :) [06:09] yea [06:09] Amaranth: Yes. [06:09] woohoo [06:09] awn 0.2 :) [06:10] oh, but launchpad is offline for the 1.1.10 upgrade [06:10] Oh, I'd forgotten about that. [06:11] LP ought to accept uploads into some secret internal location during the upgrade, for processing once it is complete. [06:22] persia: I was able to connect to upload.u.c anonymously. [06:22] imbrandon: has #ubuntu-midwest become obsolete by #ubuntu-us and state channels? [06:22] * persia wonders why Amaranth has difficulties [06:23] i didn't try [06:23] I wonder how many more states need LoCo teams. [06:23] tonyyarusso, yes [06:23] #ubuntu-nz is still alive, thankfully [06:23] If ubuntu-ma doesn't exist, I daresay it will come into being during UDS. [06:23] * imbrandon resides in #ubuntu-missouri [06:24] heh [06:24] imbrandon: 'k. That frees up one of my auto-join slots then :) [06:24] tonyyarusso, are you here in the midwest ? [06:24] imbrandon: I'm the team contact for MN now. [06:24] ahh cool [06:25] Sigh. [06:25] StevenK: -us-ma is very much alive. [06:25] StevenK: They're the ones who printed up the aluminum case badges a few weeks ago [06:26] "But Grandpa, there's only 49 stars on your flag." 'It'll be a cold day in hell before I recognize Missouri' [06:26] hahahaha [06:26] where is that from ? [06:26] The Simpsons. :-) [06:26] rofl [06:26] lol [06:26] thats classic [06:27] hrm how outdated / wrong does this look ? http://julien.danjou.info/buildd.html [06:27] you debian guys , yes ajmitch thats you [06:27] * tonyyarusso prefers to pretend that we decided not to bother having a Civil War, and are only 33 states at most [06:28] With or without slavery? [06:28] imbrandon: sbuild & schroot play together better now, but it looks reasonably close [06:28] Without, obviously. What that strange country to the south has I don't know. [06:28] my wife wants to move to california [06:28] StevenK: Of course, we all know the war wasn't about slavery in the first place. [06:28] Oh? [06:28] tonyyarusso: Foreign trade :) [06:28] huh? [06:29] StevenK: Purely economic - the slave thing was brought up as an issue as they got into it, and made good politics, ultimately. [06:29] * imbrandon missed that in history class, mist have been "peekin and pokin" on my c64 [06:30] StevenK: It really came down to at the time the south had all of the economic power, being the cotton producer, but the north needed their product for the one industry they did have going for them (textiles) [06:30] oh, and tobacco producer, can't forget that [06:31] hi all! [06:31] Umm.. rather one group was economically powerful in materials & commodities, and those other in industry. The industrial group enforced domestic trade in preference to foreign trade. [06:31] We do this a lot actually - using the human rights issue as justification after the fact, even if it had little to no influence on the decision to go to war in the first place (See WWII for another example) [06:32] persia: right - b/c otherwise the materials would go to the British, and New England's mills would be unnecessary to the world market [06:32] ahh nice new fresh 7.10 on a "model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 4400 @ 2.00GHz" vps server , time to try out this buildd thing [06:32] tonyyarusso: Yes, but not only textile mills. Also stoneworking, steel mills, etc. [06:39] is wanna-build part of sbuild ? [06:39] Not as far as I'm aware. [06:40] Ah ha, I found the full quote. [06:40] Marge: Grandpa, this flag only has 49 stars on it [06:40] Grandpa: I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missourah! [06:40] StevenK, heh [06:41] imbrandon: You need to pull wanna-build and buildd from svn [06:41] Yeah really - they can't even say their own state's name [06:41] hrm missery [06:41] persia, ahh i see, i figured it would be packaged by now [06:42] imbrandon: There's just not lots of incentive. It's not the cleanest way to run a small repo or build farm, and nobody else has as many packages as Debian :) [06:42] (same sort of reason everyone doesn't just run DAK) [06:45] I'm over this thing now. [06:45] sudo apt-get install debhelper build-essential devscripts patchutils dpatch bzr subversion dh-make cvs [06:45] err [06:45] i hate clean installs lol, too much to setup [06:45] Unable to find package: cvs [06:46] StevenK: woo! [06:46] :-P [06:46] StevenK: and let me say further, woo! [06:46] this is a major step forward [06:46] now, please nuke svn, git, tla, hg, ... [06:46] lol [06:46] Well, it appears my work is done, I've made lifeless happy for about an hour [06:47] heh [06:47] tla, I agree with you, but only if we can nuke Tom Lord, too. [06:47] honestly i really wish someone would add the "svn" meta package to subversion though [06:47] heh [06:47] imbrandon: Why? [06:48] so i can apt-get install svn like bzr and cvs and git [06:48] imbrandon: Lazy! [06:48] imbrandon: How often do you find yourself needing to install subversion? It's only 7 extra characters. [06:48] or i could just say fsk it and make an imbrandon.deb meta package how many times i setup a new system it would be worth it [06:49] persia, about once a week, but it never fails i type svn first and get the package not found error [06:49] imbrandon: Just write a script. [06:49] imbrandon: Ah. If it's that often, submit a patch to make "subversion" Provides: svn. [06:50] TheMuso, then i would have to install the script prior to installing svn , and by then i've rembered to type it all out [06:51] imbrandon: I have made a script that installs all the packages I use on a system. I simply run that script on a new install, and bam, I'm ready to go. [06:52] ahhh yea [06:52] might not be a bad idea [06:53] * persia makes vague noises about preseeding and dget --set-selections [06:53] Umm.. s/dget/dpkg/ [06:53] How vague? [06:53] :-P [06:53] well most of my "reinstalls" are actualy reimages i have no control over the initial image [06:54] so preseeding wont work [06:54] StevenK: Think audio tracks of adults speaking in animated Peanuts [06:54] lol [06:54] I never saw that. [06:55] StevenK: Ah. It's best transliterated as mwrmmm-mhhwhrrr-mhwmm... [06:56] Hah [06:58] imbrandon: The episode in question with that quote is "Homer Badman" in season six. [06:58] * StevenK will be watching it when he gets home. [06:58] i'll have to grab that ;) [07:03] anyone made a hardy debootstrap script yet ? [07:04] imbrandon: Used gutsy and dist-upgraded. [07:04] what's the status of the hardy repositories? [07:04] can I uplod my reportbug changes to it? ;) [07:05] imbrandon: Symlink hardy to gutsy [07:05] lucas: Go for it. [07:05]