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Tm_Tbug 15091301:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 150913 in ubuntu "screen and graphics crashed after pressing test button (dup-of: 137194)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15091301:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 137194 in displayconfig-gtk "displayconfig-gtk crashes on Test" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13719401:11
* Jucato yawns and stretches....02:07
Tm_TJucato: YAY!02:21
nixternalit's alive!02:21
JucatoI overslept again.. hahaha02:22
Tm_TJucato: good morning hi and yay!02:22
Jucatobut I woke up LOL'ing02:22
Tm_TJucato: last image you saw was my face?02:22
Tm_Tno no, that whould have made you cry02:22
Jucatothat would have killed me on the spot02:23
Tm_Ttrue, possibly so02:23
Jucatonixternal: so how was the Kubuntu session?02:25
* Jucato imagines the first one was more exciting02:25
nixternalI can't remember02:25
nixternalthey were both good...I like the involvement today of the entire team though02:26
Jucatothat's me... blushing... supposedly02:26
Jucatobwahahah!! I love seele's post! :)02:27
Jucatooops... I just highlighted her :(02:28
Jucatonixternal: is it 8:30 p.m. for you?02:31
nixternalyou got it02:31
Jucatokool. still early :)02:31
nixternalyet oh so tired02:31
Jucatoaw... poor overworked nixternal02:32
Jucato!helpersnack | nixternal02:32
ubotunixternal: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!02:32
* Jucato wonders if he should make a !devsnack factoid02:32
nixternalI have found a flaw in the "Popularity" of an application in Ubuntu now...when you open up the 'Add/Remove Applications' in Gnome, each package has a rating, and everything that is installed by default has 5 stars..is that because each update counts as a download I wonder?02:33
Tm_TJucato: and cause ubotu abused by us?02:33
nixternalsame goes with Kubuntu/Adept I would guess02:34
Tm_Tnixternal: time to make huge number of fixes to Kopete ;--P02:34
* Jucato wonders about it all...02:35
nixternalI want to check out Anjuta and Mono development environments..I have heard a lot of good stuff about it02:36
Jucatosoon we'll be hearing "I want to check out GNOME. I've heard a lot of good stuff about it".. and then he's gone :)02:37
nixternalhaha, nevah02:37
nixternalI don't like that I can tweak it the way I want...I mean how hard can it be to make the bars transparent?02:38
nixternalI have select transparency in the settings, but that doesn't work02:38
Tm_Tnixternal: try change tab bar from top to bottom in GNOME02:39
Tm_Tanywhere there02:39
nixternalthat's what I did02:41
Tm_Tnixternal: found any way?02:41
nixternalno..I selected transparency, and even tried to change the color..it didn't take effect though02:41
nixternalanjuta seems to be a slimlined kate, just that it has built in compile/debug options02:42
nixternalwhich you can do with Kate and a couple of macros or whatever they are called02:42
* Jucato wished Kate actually had macros... like vim recording02:43
begert I like e-macs :)02:43
begertoh hai02:43
begertI can has KDE?02:44
Jucatono weiz02:44
Tm_Temacs? was that the OS without a kernel?02:44
Jucatothe great OS w/o a good text editor :)02:44
Tm_Tah that one02:45
Jucatowe know :)02:47
nixternalOK, KDE vs. Gnome for development tools (Anjuta IDE, MonoDevelop, Bluefish, and Scream)02:47
nixternalKDE 102:48
nixternalGnome 002:48
Tm_TKDE <302:48
nixternalas a matter of fact, Kate does everything each one of those apps do02:48
Jucatowas there even a contest? :)02:48
nixternalI wanted to see02:48
Jucatoexcept a Class Browser...02:48
nixternalKDevelop is just way to strong of an IDE...it is getting close to Eclipse in that way02:48
nixternalQuanta+ > Bluefish/Scream02:49
nixternalI am actually disappointed..I had quite a few people tell me how good anjuta was...and it doesn't even do code completion from what I just saw02:49
nixternaland when you compile c++, it works great, actually to great...but go to execute it, and it tells you the file isn't local...derrr02:49
JucatoI have one big disappointment w/ KDevelop... you practically can't use it to compile a simple C++ program... without having to make a project.. or without having to use the embedded Konsole02:50
nixternalya, that is why I use Eclipse whenever I am doing STL work02:51
* Jucato just uses Kate for now... no too much Classes02:51
nixternalbut Gnome does have an app I absolutely love02:52
Jucatooh yeah, basket needs some features like that02:52
Jucatoand deskbar! (imho)02:53
nixternalforget Basket, KNotes02:53
nixternalwhat is deskbar?02:53
nixternalI need to play man02:53
Jucatoplay man?02:53
Jucatodeskbar is like Katapult on the panel. launcher and search engine02:53
Jucatow/o the indexing overhead of beagle (I think)02:54
nixternalI take it that it is not in the repos?02:54
Jucatoit's built-in to GNOME02:54
Jucatooh and drawers on the gnome panels!02:54
nixternaloh, I see deskbar02:54
nixternalI thought that was something for tracker02:54
Jucatohm.. maybe I was wrong.. but tracker doesn't seem to be a depends02:55
Jucatoaaaanyway... at least it works :)02:55
nixternaldeskbar is nice02:56
Jucatouh oh... I'm guilty of converting nixternal to GNOME!02:57
nixternalI think KRunner in KDE 4 is better though02:58
nixternaland I think Katapult is better for launching apps02:58
Jucato+1 katapult02:58
nixternalI know a ton of people who use Katapult on Gnome actually and they love it02:58
Jucato+0.5 krunner02:58
Jucatowell I haven't used krunner for 2 weeks so I can't really say... but last time I had performance, aesthetics, and usability issues with it02:59
begertI have been using KDE for about and I didn't figure out what Katapult was until about 2 weeks ago :P02:59
Jucatofor about what? :)03:00
begert*about a year03:00
Jucatohehe :)03:00
begertgot ahead of myself03:00
Jucatoit's ok... using KDE is a lot like treasure hunting03:00
begertI "opened" it along time ago, but never thought to just start typing something03:01
begertit looked to much like a splash image03:01
Jucatoit's not entirely intuitive unless you know Quicksilver03:02
begertI just kept waiting for it to start03:02
nixternalGnome does have Epiphany, which I like 2nd only to Konqueror03:02
Jucatohm.. it has a weird way of dealing w/ bookmarks though...03:02
JucatoEpiphany I mean03:03
begertso while I was sitting here I had an idea, and though I really havn't done anything for Kubuntu except write bug reports, I thought it was a decent idea03:04
nixternalooh, I forgot about Galeon as well03:04
begertI thought it could be neat to set a day every 1/2 weeks where people would focus on using a single KDE app in an attempt to find bugs and such03:05
begertthats 1 to 2 weeks03:06
begertnot half weeks03:06
nixternalbegert: that is what we would call a bug day kind of, or a hug day rather03:06
nixternalbut we definitely need to do it here on the Kubuntu side03:06
nixternalthe Ubuntu people get a lot of people to show up for Hug Days, whereas only a few of us here show up for them03:07
begertbut also (I know little) aren't those days more focused on known existing bugs?03:07
nixternalin a way yes, but that doesn't mean we can't edit the definition right :)03:07
nixternalI think it is a good day03:07
nixternaland idea03:08
begertI am thinking more on the testing side of trying all you can to break 1 specific app for that day03:08
nixternalthat is what I meant to say..I think that is a good idea :)03:08
begertvery true03:08
begertI can at least contribute ideas for now03:10
JucatoI'm going to be traiging all Adept and System Settings bugs next week... and forwarding them to manchicken :P03:10
* Jucato sees himself in begert almost 2 years ago... minus the ability to use emacs...03:11
begertwell I never said I was "good" at using emacs03:11
Jucato2 years ago... I didn't even know how to use both emacs and vim03:11
JucatoI use vim... not good at it though03:12
Tm_TI dont know how to use those03:12
Tm_Tnor care to know03:12
JucatoI just know enough to do :%s/nixternal/vista/03:12
begertI tried vim, i didn't like it03:12
manchickenJucato: Righto.  You do that :)03:12
Jucatohaven't tried emacs... I tried vim first at the behest of a friend03:12
begertbut i know people that love it03:12
begerteither way, both are great03:13
Jucatomanchicken: should I just assign them to you are should I just poke you with a list?03:13
manchickenJucato: Could you poke me with a list (preferably via email)?03:13
manchickenI'm going to be picking up the Kubuntu slack a bit when I start this indy job.03:14
Jucatomanchicken: sure :)03:14
JucatoI will probably give my comments too :P03:14
manchickenAny info you could give--including cause suspicions--would be nice.03:14
Jucato(and then we all decide to move to packagekit bwahahah!)03:15
JucatoI'll try if I can even fix the lowest hanging fruits... you know, the ones low enough for worms to eat? :D03:15
* Jucato decides to take a risk...03:19
Jucatohm... nvm03:19
manchickenIf there's low-hanging fruit, I probably already ate it.03:24
manchickenI think the resolution of the database lock is probably the most complicated bug fix I've done.03:24
nixternalheh, I think I might like Compiz a little bit03:26
manchickenI like it alright, I just don't like its limitations.03:28
nixternalI am having to much fun with it03:29
nixternalI think I shall install it on my laptop03:29
manchickenIt's fun for about a week.03:29
nixternalshow them Mac people what it is all about03:29
Tm_Tmanchicken: I got enough of it in 2 minutes =)03:29
manchickenIf we can't get some of these issues fixed, I may move to GNOME for a little while.03:29
manchickenAs much as it pains me to say that.03:29
manchickenThis artsd/kmilo/kmix thing is killing me.03:29
manchickenAnd not being able to use my headphone jack is just too much.03:30
manchickenIt's bad enough that I can't suspend/resume.03:30
Tm_Tarts... I think I have heard that few years ago... ;)03:30
* Tm_T doesnt use it =)03:30
manchickenWhen you don't have a hardware mixer, you need something.03:30
manchickenI love KDE, but right now this is just killing me.03:31
manchickenOoh, I should try KDE4 now.03:31
Tm_Thow you even could think of GNOME before trying KDE4 ?!03:31
manchickenBecause I know GNOME works :)03:32
manchickenAnd because System76 will give me full support for GNOME.03:32
* Tm_T get panic attacks from gnome03:32
Jucatomanchicken: iirc someone was having problems with that database lock resolution thingy....03:32
manchickenNot saying I don't want to make KDE better though.03:32
manchickenJucato: Yeah, but I haven't been able to replicate any of those issues.03:32
Jucatoit crashes Adept again iirc03:32
manchickenJucato: And if I can't replicate them, or get a super-sweet dump file, I can't really troubleshoot it.03:33
manchickenIt's all nixternal's fault.03:33
Jucatomanchicken: heh the worst kind of bugs...03:33
manchickenTrying KDE403:35
crimsunof course it'd be nixternal's fault.03:42
nixternalwell well well, if it isn't old crimsun!03:42
crimsunthat's geezer crimsun to you, kiddo!03:42
begertgood night people, talk to you later03:52
Jucatok'night begert!03:53
manchickenDoes KDE4 have a working panel yet?04:08
manchickenI wasn't able to get that working at all.04:08
manchickenJust plasma and a handful of plasmoids.04:09
Daskreechseele: ha ha :) nice backend04:51
* Jucato burps05:38
* Daskreech wakes up .45 miles away05:41
DaskreechWhat just happened?05:41
Tm_Tme just happened05:43
Tm_Tnixternal: http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png07:13
DaskreechWouldn't manchicken  be more interested?07:16
Tm_The maybe too07:16
Tm_TDaskreech: but why he more?07:16
Daskreechmanchicken is a RMS fiend :)07:16
Daskreechhe'd love it07:16
Tm_Twell I know nixternal keep fuzzing about gpl, well, atleast kept =)07:17
Tm_Tbtw http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/art/gpl3-grey-02.png07:19
Hobbseenixternal: poke09:47
Jucato_StefanS_!!! Hobbsee!!!10:00
* Jucato falls asleep again...10:00
Riddellnixternal: ha ha, I CC'ed you  teh reply to my e-mail10:00
* Jucato waves to Riddell too10:01
Hobbseehiya Jucato!10:02
Riddellhi Jucato10:04
* Riddell in heathrow vip lounge10:05
Riddelllots of whisky here10:05
Hobbseebut no irn bru?  :)10:05
* Hobbsee is jealous.10:05
Jucatoof the whiskey or being in heathrow?10:06
Jucato(just one wrong typo, and it's deathrow :P)10:06
Hobbseegoing to UDS10:06
Jucatoah... yeah.. who isn't? :)10:06
Jucatoayt... brb :)10:07
Jucatoare our (try pronouncing that!) KDE4 packages built with fulldebug?10:16
_StefanS_Jucato: yep I think they are10:17
Jucatoah ok :)10:17
viviersfRiddell, ping10:47
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Lure_seele: ping13:10
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* Jucato waves at Lure13:11
Lurehi Jucato13:11
LureJucato: how is support of gutsy in #kubuntu going on? good or bad?13:12
Jucatohm.... how can I say? both good and bad :)13:12
LureJucato: what is bad? kopete crash? dolphin?13:12
Jucatoyes, plus some reports of debconf crashing during the upgrade13:13
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LureJucato: yep, upgrades are always tricky... never tested enough imho...13:13
JucatoI'm going to keep an eternal gutsy vm just to test all upgrade to hardy for each milestone...13:13
Jucatothere's also the small problem of people looking for features that Ubuntu has that Kubuntu doesn't :)13:14
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Tonio_hi Jucato, Lure :)13:45
Jucatohi Tonio_! :)13:45
Tonio_Jucato: didn't find out how to trust a protocol in konqueror.:/13:46
Lurehi Tonio_, I see you are already hitting hardy-changes!13:46
* Lure still needs to upgrade to hardy13:46
Tonio_Lure: well kio-apt shouldn't have been there.....;; I just override that one, it should have gone to my ppa :)13:47
Tonio_Lure: fancy testing kio-aot ?13:47
LureTonio_: ;-)13:47
LureTonio_: maybe during weekend, busy now...13:47
Tonio_Lure: no idea how to make konqueror consider a protocol is secured ?13:48
Lurejust came from US and now on business meetings for the second day13:48
Tonio_Lure: I can't find out how to make it to consider apt:/ is a trusted protocol13:48
LureTonio_: like https?13:48
LureTonio_: what would be the difference13:48
Tonio_Lure: konqueror doesn't like unknown protocols while clicking on links13:49
Tonio_no problom when typing in the address bar13:49
LureTonio_: oh, that...13:49
Tonio_Lure: yep ;)13:49
LureTonio_: no idea.13:49
Tonio_Lure: I guess we'll have to patch konqueror for this13:49
Tonio_looks like ardcoded feature13:49
* Lure is not using Konqueror for browsing and do not know the code at all13:49
Tonio_probably something in kio-http btw13:50
Tonio_or khtml13:50
* Lure downloads new Opera beta... ;-)13:50
Tonio_yop jpatrick13:51
Tonio_Jucato: the installation reporting succes/failure now works in kio-apt13:51
Jucatowoot! :)13:52
Jucatohm. is kio-apt making use of gdebi-kde btw?13:52
Tonio_Jucato: no it just uses adept-batch13:53
* Jucato wonders why we couldn't have developed adept-batch in the first place...13:53
JucatoI mean for .debs...13:54
Jucatobah nvm.. apt... heheh13:54
Tonio_Jucato: adept-batch is for apt-get installation13:54
Tonio_gdebi is for dpkg (aka local) installation13:54
Tonio_that's just completly different13:54
Jucatoyeah. I sort of... :)13:54
Tonio_manchicken: ping ?13:54
Tonio_manchicken: I just discovered that adept-batch just segfaults when using a bad package name13:54
Tonio_manchicken: sudo adept-batch install blablatoto13:55
Tonio_that's bad :/13:55
jpatrickJucato: do you use a i*86?13:57
Jucatoyes. but my kubuntu install is currently hosed :)13:58
* Jucato might need to download an ISO instead of waiting for shitit13:58
Jucatoer shipit13:58
jpatrickhosed so much that you can't test: http://ihosted.info/~jpatrick/kde-style-domino_0.4-0ubuntu1_i1386.deb ?13:59
* Jucato nods13:59
* Hobbsee wonders how you broke it.13:59
Jucatotried to do a fresh install since any kernel higher than 2.6.22-12 (can't recall) freezes14:00
Jucatolucky as I am... my only feisty cd isn't working as well :)14:00
manchickenTonio_: Wuddup homes?14:01
manchickenTonio_: You got a bug for that just so that I don't forget about it?  I'll see if I can take a peeky-peek at it right now.14:02
apacheloggerjpatrick: ahoy!.... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=423 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=42414:02
* Hobbsee notes that she's officially been using ubuntu for a week now.14:02
Hobbseewell, 8 day.s14:03
manchickenTonio_: I can replicate it.14:03
manchickenHobbsee: How you like it?14:03
jpatrickapachelogger: warum bist du niemal hier wann ich dich sehen will!?14:03
Hobbseemanchicken: there's some really nice polished stuff in there14:03
Hobbseebut konversation is a must, is as amarok14:03
manchickenI think it's pretty good.  I just don't think I could pull myself away from the well integrated, but not always as simple, KDE.14:03
Hobbseemanchicken: the lack of functionality in some places is annoying - like the lack of kioslaves.14:03
apacheloggerjpatrick: private problems which currently need a lot of time14:03
jpatrickah, right14:03
manchickenHobbsee: I don't like how limited metacity is compared to kwin.14:04
apacheloggerjpatrick: btw, I'd split domino, since it's a theme a style and a window deco14:04
Hobbseemanchicken: well, it's with compiz too, so...14:04
Hobbseemanchicken: it's more stuff like nautilus14:04
manchickenHobbsee: Or xchat vs. konvi, konsole vs. terminal, etc.14:04
Hobbseeyeah, true14:04
manchickenHobbsee: D3lphin smokes nautilus14:04
Hobbseei've found terminal to be fine, actually14:04
* Hobbsee isnt much of a fan of d3lphin14:04
* Jucato has to agree w/ the d3lphin comment unfortunately...14:04
manchickenAnd kontact beats the hell out of evolution imho.14:04
jpatrickapachelogger: hmm, might do, for tastymenu rm the debian dir in source and retar it14:04
Hobbseeoh, indeed.  thunderbird sucks less than either of them, though14:04
jpatricknote in changelog and send a message upstream :)14:05
Jucatomanchicken: gnome-term has one feature that will only arrive in Konsole in KDE 4 though14:05
manchickenI'm not a thunderbird fan.14:05
Jucatoclickable links14:05
* apachelogger goes retaring14:05
manchickenJucato: I'm not a big fan of clickable links in my terminal sessions :)14:05
Tonio_manchicken: strange........14:05
Hobbseeah yes, i like the clicking14:05
Tonio_can someone try to reproduce ?14:05
Hobbseei want to see kde4, though14:05
seeleLure: pong14:05
manchickenTonio_: I can reproduce the problem.14:05
apacheloggerHobbsee: kde4's konsole is awesome14:05
Jucatoseele: nice blog post btw ;)14:06
manchickenTonio_: I just can't get a good dump file.14:06
seeleJucato: haha thanks14:06
Tonio_manchicken: okay but does this crash for you too ?14:06
manchickenTonio_: Could you put a bug in for that if there isn't one already?  I'm going to hopefully get back into the kubuntu hacking here soon.14:06
manchickenTonio_: Yes.14:06
Tonio_manchicken: oki :)14:07
manchickenTonio_: Without any good debugging other than a STL exception message.14:07
jpatrickapachelogger: you should also put (LP: #xxx) after IR in changelog to close the LP bug14:07
Lureseele: I have a German customer that would need usability consultant, so I am thinking some kde-usability person can do the job14:08
Lureseele: anyone from germany that is doing this kind of consultancy work?14:08
Tonio_manchicken: okay, I'll just report the bug on launchpad atm14:09
manchickenMuch thanks.14:09
manchickenI think it's probably just iterating through all packages it knows of without paying attention to whether or not its at the end of its list.14:09
manchickenIf I'm right then that'd be a simple issue to fix.14:10
seeleLure: Ellen Reitmayr (ellen@reitmayr.net) does consulting and Jan Muehlig (jan.muehlig@relevantive.de) has a consultancy called Relevantive14:10
Hobbseemanchicken: it's frustrating having to look up how to do things, which usually Just Work14:10
Lureseele: thanks, will contact them14:10
seeleLure: both have been involved in KDE usability and are a part of OpenUsability14:10
seeleLure: np14:10
manchickenHobbsee: Yes.  That it is.14:10
manchickenHobbsee: It's pretty well polished though, but it's just not what I like to use.14:11
JucatoTonio_: bug report exists14:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 153710 in adept "adept_batch crashes if target package does not exist" [Undecided,New]14:11
Hobbseemanchicken: true14:11
manchickenEven though KDE 3.5.8 is sucking for me right now.14:11
JucatoTonio_, manchicken: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adept/+bug/15371014:11
* Jucato runs from WaltzingAlong14:11
Jucatolife's so unfair..14:11
Lureseele: our larger customes have own usability expert, but in this case they do not have one and we do not like to do major UI redesigns with one14:11
manchickenI'll confirm and prioritize and assign that bug.14:12
Jucato(that's one less Adept bug to triage!!! :P)14:12
apacheloggerjpatrick: uploads in progress, thanks for revuing :)14:13
manchickenThat bug is updated.14:13
jpatrickno prob14:13
manchickenJucato: Oh, you could still triage it ;)14:13
WaltzingAlonggood thing they are called bugs and not spiders. would not be cool to squish one spider only to see hundreds emerge from it14:13
Jucatomanchicken: do the honors haha :)14:13
* manchicken doesn't know the official process for triaging bugs.14:14
* Jucato wonders what's the diff between https://bugs.launchpad.net/ and https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/14:14
Jucato<manchicken> I'll confirm and prioritize and assign that bug. <---  um.. that? :)14:14
manchickenRighto then14:14
manchickenTonio_: If you get any output from your crash or any dump output that you could paste into that bug, that would be very helpful.14:15
Jucatooh and https://launchpad.net/bugs/ too! :)14:15
Jucato3 URL's that go to the same page heheh :)14:15
jpatrickyou haven't mentioned edge.* yet14:16
Tonio_manchicken: I don't get anything too.....14:16
Jucatooh yeah...14:16
Tonio_manchicken: will try with gdb14:16
manchickenTonio_: Okie dokie.14:16
manchickenTonio_: Ooh, that'd be very kind of you.14:16
Jucatoof course... it's Tonio_ :)14:18
manchickenTime to continue my time where I can't do any work of my own, but I can play Nintendo.14:20
manchickenThis sucks.  I can't wait until Wednesday.14:20
jpatrickapachelogger: new pkgs approved, now find someone else to review and I'll upload14:23
apacheloggerAnyone in revu mood? :)14:24
Tonio_Jucato: just found how to trust the apt protocol :)14:27
Tonio_Jucato: fancy testing ?14:27
JucatoTonio_: not today :(14:27
JucatoI can do tomorrow (downloading Gutsy ISO)14:27
Jucato6 hours...14:27
Tonio_so that you can test it, copy this in your /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/defualt/kdeglobals file14:28
Tonio_just copy this, reload kde and it might work14:28
nosrednaekimTonio_: cool got a new deb?;-)14:28
Tonio_nosrednaekim: yep ;)14:28
Tonio_nosrednaekim: no supports checking if installation was successfull or not14:28
Tonio_nosrednaekim: mostly done for apt:/ now starting apt+http:/14:29
* nosrednaekim is supposeing that was a "now"14:29
Tonio_nosrednaekim: you might get the deb on my ppa soon14:29
Tonio_ah, well got dc enabled ?14:29
nosrednaekimsure....i'm kinda laggy right now14:30
nosrednaekimuhh wait... I need x86_6414:31
Tonio_nosrednaekim: then you have to wait for the ppa package :)14:31
apacheloggerTonio_: do you have time to revu http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=425 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=426 ?14:35
jpatricknixternal: ^?14:36
Tonio_apachelogger: toonight, probably14:36
apacheloggerTonio_: fair enough :)14:37
jpatrickapachelogger: try fishing in #ubuntu-motu14:39
Mezwhy does kubuntu decide to f**k up my xorg.conf instead of just changing the resolution manually14:56
Jucatohi bddebian15:07
bddebianHi Jucato15:09
mhbthis UDS/Fosscamp is unlucky for KDE/Kubuntu people15:20
Jucatoread about annma? ;(15:20
nosrednaekimyou there?15:20
mhbnosrednaekim: me?15:20
mhbnosrednaekim: I am now15:20
nosrednaekimyou are only like 5 hours north of me :)15:21
mhbnosrednaekim: well not at UDS, no.15:21
nosrednaekimoh ;)15:21
mhbnosrednaekim: here in the channel15:21
mhbnosrednaekim: :o)15:21
mhbnosrednaekim: Did you happen to forget my blog post?15:21
nosrednaekimwhich one....15:21
mhbthe one about not being given a visa to the U.S.15:22
mhband I am not really the terrorist type who tries to get in even though they dont want him there.15:22
n8k99no the one about the transportation workers strike in france preventing her from getting on a flight15:23
mhbn8k99: yeah, well I thought about my reason why I am not at UDS15:23
mhbn8k99: err, talked15:23
nosrednaekimno, I didn't... what is your blog?15:24
mhbn8k99: of course, the news about annma is also bad, like I said, unlucky for KDE/Kubuntu people15:24
mhbnosrednaekim: http://mhb.ath.cx/blog/english/enjoy-the-uds-without-me/15:25
n8k99mhb i remember that post now15:26
mhbn8k99: it is like a curse ... nix couldnt get there, I couldnt, now annma ...15:26
jpatrickhope it's in Europe next time15:26
n8k99on behalf of the sane population in this country I am deeply apologetic about the other idiots we have here15:26
jpatricknosrednaekim: supercat in hardy15:27
mhbis jr on the road already?15:27
nosrednaekimjpatrick: thanks! :-)15:28
mhbJucato: if you will be monitoring UDS closely, could we count on you to provide blog coverage if other sources fail? :o)15:28
Jucatothat's a big if right now :/15:28
JucatoI will try....15:29
mhbJucato: I am quite confident in jr blogging about it, he usually does15:29
mhbJucato: but who knows if he has time for that15:29
Jucatowill try my best.. but it will be my first time to try VoIP and Gobby so...15:30
manchickenWe still need a kobby :)15:30
Jucatooh yes definitely :)15:31
manchickenSo does kde4 have a proper working panel yet?  I couldn't get it to work last night.15:32
ScottKmanchicken: You know that pkern (the upstream and Debian Maintainer for Gobby) is a MOTU now, don't you?15:32
nosrednaekimmanchicken: not in the beta315:32
Jucatodepends on what you consider working :)15:33
Jucatopost-beta3 it's working a bit15:33
Jucato(as in SVN_15:33
manchickenScottK: Didn't know that.15:33
mhbfunny, it is past beta3 and were still not moving to release-candidate quality yet15:33
manchickenIf you just launch into KDE4, you can't even start any programs.15:33
manchickenJust plasmoids.15:33
* mhb fears of another delay15:33
ScottKI've asked and he's not interested in working on a Kobby, but may be useful if someone else want to do the front end.15:34
manchickenThere's just no way to launch the programs.15:34
nosrednaekimpanel seems to be working in the KDE4 liveCD15:34
nosrednaekimmanchicken: right click on dektop run program?15:34
mhbScottK: what language is it written in?15:34
manchickenKDE4 live CD?15:34
nosrednaekimyeah... SUse15:34
mhbScottK: if your answer is Glib-riddden C ... well not a job for me :o)15:34
manchickennosrednaekim: I get nothing when I right-click under KDE4.15:34
ScottKmhb: I've no idea.  I do know there's a separate obby backend.15:34
nosrednaekimmanchicken: ouch :)15:34
Jucatomanchicken: is that from SVN?15:35
manchickenGutsy repos15:35
Jucatomanchicken: Alt+F2 (krunner)15:35
manchickenTried that15:35
manchickenNot krunning15:35
mhbScottK: C++15:35
JucatoI'm not sure if kickoff was included in our beta3 packages15:35
nixternalthat's what I am talking about...8 hours of sleep!!!!15:35
Jucatomanchicken: hm... that should be working...15:35
nosrednaekimJucato: kickoff was15:36
Jucatook time for me to bed15:36
Jucatonixternal: annma won't be able to make it :(15:36
mhbgood morning nix15:36
Jucatonosrednaekim: I see. how about the taskbar fix (running apps should be on the taskbar)15:36
nosrednaekimJucato: its in the KDE4 livCD. yes but not int he beta packages I don't think.15:37
JucatoI see15:37
* DaSkreech waves15:38
Jucatooh hail the gang's all here15:38
nixternalJucato: what? I thought she had it all planned it..her husband and kids were going to go visit the grandparents15:38
Jucatosee Planet KDE15:39
nixternalTm_T: that GPL wallpaper is killer...it will be on my desktop now...if I could read it on my laptop, it would be there too15:39
* nixternal fires up akregator15:39
nixternalholy cow Jucato, she jinxed herself with the original post by saying something about the strike :(15:40
=== neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde
Jucatonixternal: actually she posted that after the fact....15:41
Jucatothe other post15:41
DaSkreechI'm in a gang?15:43
nosrednaekimgreat(or stupid) mindsthink alike http://blog.tonyyarusso.com/planetubuntu/hardy-wishlist-post-4/15:43
DaSkreechfools seldom differ15:47
DaSkreechWait that's not true15:47
DaSkreechthere is a wide variety of foolishnes15:48
jpatricknixternal: https://launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception/15:52
nixternal[   Riddell] nixternal: ha ha, I CC'ed you  teh reply to my e-mail15:54
nixternal?? I didn't get any email from ya, so which email?15:54
jpatrickI think he's on the train/road15:55
nixternaljpatrick: when I get a little more time I will start the mentoring...hopefully here in a couple of weeks I will have some free time15:55
Jucatoflying teacup15:55
* Jucato doesn't like saucers...15:55
jpatricknah, he probably used Launchpad and did it Mark Shuttleworth-style!15:55
* nosrednaekim decides to stop childishly lol-ing15:59
DaSkreech!lol | nosrednaekim16:00
nosrednaekimoh shut up!16:01
* DaSkreech kicks ubotu16:01
* DaSkreech misses the non-existent bot and falls on the floor16:01
* DaSkreech awaits people loling16:01
nosrednaekimDaSkreech ROFL16:02
manchickenWe should make it so that kontact automagically sticks the ICS file from integrated karm and sticks it as an option on the calendar.16:02
manchickenThat'd be awesome.16:02
mzungunixternal, please have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuExtras to see if its what you had in mind16:03
DaSkreechhu begert16:06
Jucatomzungu: I still vote for kget to be included by default :)16:07
Jucatoktorrent's there.. but not kget...16:07
mzunguha ha - me too!16:07
mzungualways on my immediate list after an install16:08
DaSkreechWon't be an issue with KDe4 I think16:10
mhbplease, explain to me - why should we include something more in the default install?16:10
mhbwho are we going to please by that?16:10
DaSkreechmhb: Debian users?16:11
mhbis really an app like kget something to be considered essential for the base install?16:11
Jucatomhb: I have one big reason for having KGet installed16:11
Jucato(is KTorrent even?)16:11
Hobbseewhy would we want kget, sorry?16:11
Jucatook let me type!!!16:11
Hobbseektorrent is installed by default.  it's handy :)16:11
JucatoKGet solves a big problem with sites that deliver wrong16:12
JucatoMIME types for downloads16:12
Jucatolike kde-look/apps and other random sites16:12
nixternalmzungu: looks good...I will make sure I get those items documented16:12
Jucatow/o kget, konqueror attempts to open those in Kate16:12
mhbJucato: sure, that is a good reason for having it in universe.16:12
mhband nobody can block that.16:13
Jucatook ok...16:13
nixternalHobbsee: it isn't to install by default, but to document so new users know what they have available...go give them a better description than what Adept gives16:13
Hobbseeah right16:13
* Jucato woners how many times people will download through torrent vs. download through http/ftp16:13
nixternalI wish I would have thought of that a while back :)16:13
mhbNow, tell me a reason why it should be in main, so please, could you give an user case of a person that cannot click Save As? on the link? Or when you cannot really use the apt-get/adept to fetch it?16:13
nixternalI rarely ever use Torrent except for the initial release isos16:14
mhbto fetch kget and then use it16:14
Jucato<mhb> Now, tell me a reason why it should be in main, so please, could you give an user case of a person that cannot click Save As? on the link? <--- like I said, that doesn't always work16:14
Jucatoand for people who really don't know, they won't know that kget sort of fixes that problem16:14
mhbJucato: it doesnt? Really? Well I have never had trouble with it, and I have never used kget AFAIK.16:14
mzungufor kget in particular, for those of us with poor and slow internet - it makes download management better16:15
mhbJucato: and I have downloaded stuff from kde-look/apps any other site16:15
Jucatomhb: just because you haven't, doesn't mean no one has16:15
nixternalsave as rarely works on quite a few things...I tried the other day to save some SVGs and it tried to save them as =JKK8439KDFJ== or some garbage16:15
mhbagain, a perfectly sound reason for universe16:15
JucatoI've come across many instances already of people asking why Konqueror kept on trying to open downloads in Kate16:15
nixternalI heard that they removed curl from the CDs...does anyone know if that is true, and if so, did they replace it? well they had to replace it obviously16:16
Jucatomhb: I get your point. what I don't understand why ktorrent would have special treatment though16:16
nixternalI am with Jucato on that...KTorrent is nice, but not everyone is using it...check popcon16:16
mhbJucato: well ktorrent is the only app we have for downloading any torrents, right?16:16
Jucato* Jucato woners how many times people will download through torrent vs. download through http/ftp16:17
DaSkreechThat might not be a bad idea nixternal16:17
nixternalJucato: people really only use KTorrent to get music and movies16:17
Jucatolike I said nvm. outvoted16:17
DaSkreechHave a common tasks document16:17
Jucatonixternal: from questionable sources too...16:17
mhbJucato: but we certainly have apps for downloading content, Konqueror should handle that automagically. Right, kget fixes some use cases, but not all.16:18
nixternalso that is why I am with you...if KTorrent was popular for everyone, then OK, but it isn't16:18
Jucatonixternal: in an indirect way, we're sort of condoning something...16:18
nosrednaekimyeah... I don't see why we need a torrenting app16:18
nixternalplus a lot of people are using Azureus over KTorrent for stuff from what I have heard16:18
nixternalJucato: you are right on the button there :)16:18
nixternaleven though I think there is a "we don't condone if for the use of...." somewhere in the documentation16:19
nixternalI know we have a patch that removes all of the bad torrent sites like Pirate Bay and such16:19
mzungumebbe in the hope that downloading a new kubuntu cd will use torrent, rather than overload the ubuntu servers?16:19
mhb"a lot of people use kaffeine for playing non-copyrighted content ... and other people are using totem or mplayer, from what I have heard :o)"16:19
mhberr, s/copyrighted/illegal16:20
nixternalKNemo would be nice to have though, especially if there is this "play catchup with Ubuntu" idea floating around...they have something similar..and KNemo is one of the first things I install...it doesn't get anybetter than KNemo :)16:20
Jucatonixternal: grr!16:20
Hobbseemeh, knemo16:21
nixternalKFTPGrabber I am not a huge fan of just yet, because of its limitations16:21
mhbshould we ban kaffeine because of people playing illegal content on it? No, because it is our only means of playing video  players16:21
nixternalHobbsee: come on now, I love that little app :)16:21
mhband the same goes with torrents16:21
Hobbseeyay, torrents!16:21
Hobbseeof course, ubuntu torrents are why we want to keep a torrenter.16:21
Hobbseebesides, sometimes you *have* to torrent, as the $powersthatbe dont give you a legal way to get the content in question.16:22
mhband legal videos are why we need a video player16:22
nixternalI think we need to seriously take a look at popcon and see what we have out of the box, see how important it is, and maybe poll the users...we need to poll the users a little bit to get an idea of just how they are using Kubuntu16:22
mhbheck, we cannot even play DVDs in Kaffeine legally, should we remove that functionality?16:22
nixternalremember, Kubuntu is about what WE like or don't like...it is about what the USERS like and dis-like16:22
nixternalI booboo'd there16:22
nixternals/KUbuntu is about what WE/Kubuntu is NOT about what WE/16:22
nixternalI just think it is time we listen to the people who use it to an extent16:23
mhbI think the base principle of Kubuntu is to provide one tool for one task16:23
mhbon the default CD - and provide all the possibilities in universe repos16:24
nixternaland that's fine, as long as people are using the one tool for that one task16:24
ScottKnixternal: For a paid dev sure, but I don't feel any obligation to make Kubuntu like anything other than what I want.16:24
mhbbut what KGet really does is just fix a download problem in Konqueror for sites that are written badly16:24
mhberr, badly configured servers16:24
Jucatoof course it can be more than that... but then again..16:24
Jucatoone tool for one task...16:25
mhbJucato: I would prefer that to be done so that the user doesnt have to wonder why KGet opens this and Konqueror that16:25
nixternalI do, it is free software, I have been provided the chance to work with a great project and a great community, I have been given this chance for free...if you don't like doing it unpaid, then free-software isn't for you...this is a volunteer community, that's what makes us so strong...Ubuntu does a great job of giving the users what they want, and a majority of them are volunteers as well16:25
mhbJucato: a config option in Konqui perhaps?16:25
Jucatomhb: why will Konqueror open when something is supposed to be downloaded if KGet integration is enabled?16:26
* Jucato wonders if IRC ops will be paid soon :P16:26
Jucatonon-developing IRC ops :D16:26
* mhb wonders if he will be paid again for hacking Kubuntu :o)16:27
mhbbut probably not16:27
nixternalnobody will be getting paid monetarily soon...you should develop and work with free software because you enjoy it..if you want the paycheck, then you have to go else where, because sabdfl said it best during the Q&A talk....no money for you! :)16:27
mhbJucato: its not a bad thing, someone else will get paid for that, and we will gain a skilled person for some time16:27
mhbI am perfectly happy with helping out Kubuntu as much as I can until it is fun :o)16:28
ScottKnixternal: Sure, but my point is volunteers should work as they will and not because they are pushed.16:28
mhbs/until/as long as16:28
nixternalyou mean until it is no longer fun?16:28
nixternalor that :)16:28
DaSkreechmhb: non-illegal ?16:28
nixternalScottK: there is no pushing...having a user tell you what they would like to see is no different than doing what is on the Kubuntu TODO list16:29
ScottKnixternal: Yes (see my recent rants on MOTU for why I'm doing less there).16:29
nixternaloh, I seen them :) hehe16:29
Hobbseenixternal: popcon is broken, iirc.16:29
mhbDaSkreech: me bad english16:29
nixternalyay, so where else could you get popular application information from?16:29
mhbDaSkreech: sorry for me, me no good english16:29
nixternalhrmm, the people who use it? :p16:29
mhbnixternal: right16:29
ScottKnixternal: Sure.  User is free to ask and I'm free to ignore.16:29
mhbalso, there is a different thing16:30
Hobbseenixternal: it might be fixed, i'm not sure.  it certainly was broken16:30
mhbwe dont have that much space on the CD16:30
nixternalHobbsee: you are right...I remember reading about it16:30
mhbI would like to consider whether some app would make as many users happy as the amount of translations we would bring instead16:30
mhbor rephrased: if you want to get something on the CD, make sure there is space for it :o)16:31
nixternaldon't get me started on translations, because I am highly pissed at Rosetta right now :)16:31
mhbnixternal: you are nothing,16:31
nixternalgee thanks16:31
mhbnixternal: you would be after doing translations for like two years :o)16:31
mhbnixternal: I meant it well16:32
Jucatooh krap! openweek...16:32
mhbnixternal: of course, me bad english16:32
nixternalhehe, I know...I seen the comma, so I know you didn't finish it16:32
mhbnixternal: you are not as pissed as me, that is what I meant16:32
Jucatooh cancelled...16:32
nixternalmhb: bad english my arse :)16:32
nixternalI probably have worse english than everyone...I live in Chicago, we will never speak right :D16:32
nixternalwe have every nationality there is in Chicago, so we mix it all up and come with some very unique lingo16:33
mzungunixternal, arse/ass chicago?16:33
nixternalwell, arse is cleaner and more fun to say :)16:33
mzungudepends what you used to wipe it with ;)16:34
Jucatoand it's English :)16:34
nixternalthat it be16:34
mzungumy point!16:34
mhb"to have this list presented on a new install"16:36
mhboh my...16:36
mhbhas jr heard about the idea of presenting anything on a new install?16:36
mhbbecause I am sure he would be against it as he always was when it came to first-run pop-ups16:36
mzungunow then lad, what would tha' prefer16:37
mhbmzungu: hmm, not sure. Kubuntu.org page dedicated to that?16:37
mzungu(said with best 'yorkshire' accent)16:37
nixternalmhb: presented as in documented...and our documentation is available on a new install :)16:38
mhbmzungu: of course, all those packages important to the users should be available through the add/remove packages interface16:38
mzungui'm thinking of newbies16:38
mhbnixternal: right, that is a good way16:38
mzunguadept with universe enabled by default is a bit daunting16:39
* DaSkreech still theorises that in two years Ubuntu will suck :)16:39
mhbnixternal: I understood "presented" in a different way16:39
nixternalmzungu: I think a lot of new users are looking at the Add/Remove app for stuff16:39
JucatoDaSkreech: and how about Kubuntu?16:39
mhbmzungu: adept has universe by default16:39
mhbmzungu: or do you mean something else?16:40
nixternalbut you are right, Adept is insane when you have have any repo enabled :)16:40
mzunguyes - and how is a newbie supposed to go through all the packages,16:40
mzunguand know what does what16:40
nixternalalphabetically from what I could see :p16:40
DaSkreechJucato: I'm just saying that adding more functionality with only one CD is not maintainable16:40
mzunguwithout a bit of a helping hand16:40
mhbtype a "rename" in his language into the search bar16:40
DaSkreech KDE will probably be better since it can consolidate libs etc16:40
DaSkreech But there is stil the underlying Ubuntu growth creep16:41
mzungumhb, if you are a newbie - search for *what*?16:41
mhbmzungu: well I just thought I am a newbie and I want to rename multiple files16:41
mhbmzungu: I must admit I am not sure how the newbie really behaves16:42
nixternalwhat I think mzungu is trying to say, is it isn't presented to a new user cleanly..they are given a list of names with a description a developer has added to the debian/control file, which half don't make sense16:42
nixternalthen use the wonderful app called KRename :)  </shameful plug>16:42
mzunguif we are trying to attract newbies to kubuntu, coming from another nameless os, we need more hand holding16:43
DaSkreechmhb: They open add/remove programs16:43
mhbDaSkreech: yes, and they can search for "rename" and find krename16:43
DaSkreechYeah I know16:43
mzunguand how do they know, from the many rename hits, that krename is what they need?16:44
DaSkreechcause we filter on KDE by default?16:44
mzunguunless we help them along with a list of 'recommended' extras16:44
nixternalholy smokes16:44
nixternalI just searched for *rename* in adept...we definitely don't filter on KDE16:45
mhbnixternal: adept_installer?16:45
mzunguyeah - had to light one up ;)16:45
nixternalAdept Manager16:45
mhbnixternal: I think I found krename rather easily with that16:45
mhbnixternal: hmm, yes, adept manager is not really an application targeted at common users16:45
nixternalwell I see KRename, but I also see cdrtoaster, firebird2*, gprename, and more16:46
mhbnixternal: which kind of contradicts the fact that it is on the CD :o) I would like to have a single package manager for sure, perhaps with single and advanced views.16:46
* nixternal uses apt-cache search16:46
Jucatoby default it filters/searches in name, description, and maintainer even...16:46
nixternalfirst time I opened Adept Installer in a long time16:47
* Jucato doesn't like adept_installer's implementation, although the interface is fine...16:47
nixternalOK, time for me to go learn something...see ya'll later16:48
Jucatothe part I don't like about the Add/Remove Programs stuff is that when you try to search for a package that isn't in the app-install-data database, it won't show up..and you'll think it doesn't exists, unless you search in adept manager16:48
Jucatonvm... :)16:48
mzungui guess we are all seasoned users - and pretty much know what we want - from years of installing kde-based systems - personally, i prefer aptitude curses i/f than gui - but try telling that to a newbie16:49
* Jucato shudders16:49
mzungu...and dolphins should stick to the ocean, where they belong ;)16:50
* mhb loves dolphin16:50
mhbreally, I like it way more than konqui16:51
mhbof course, I never said it during the development cycle, at least I think so16:51
mzunguthank goodness for diversity!16:51
JucatoI like dolphins.... but not d3lphin :)16:51
JucatoI do like Dolphin though16:51
mzunguah the well-known spleing mistook!16:52
* mzungu => class :)16:53
DaSkreechnixternal: I meant add/remove16:57
DaSkreechdamn :-)16:58
Tm_Tnixternal: well thank you :)16:58
DaSkreechAre we going to have a Kde4-devel package?16:58
stdinthat's just the -dev packages17:01
DaSkreechYeah I know17:04
DaSkreech I'm looking to make the transistion between Gutsy and Incontinent ibex one that's profitable for KDE4 users/devs17:05
=== Earl_of_Dunham is now known as n8k99
jpatrickMez: do you plan to do the knights merge?17:41
Hobbseejpatrick: are you throwing that stuff into the debian kde svn?17:42
Mez jpatrick wow, been a long time since that17:42
jpatrickHobbsee: I don't have an account... yet17:42
Mezdrop me an email and I'll look it over later17:42
milianis there a package for the kde4 menu (the one based on the suse menu) ?17:43
Hobbseejpatrick: ah.  would be good to do that, then we dont have to keep merging every time.17:43
jpatrickHobbsee: I hang around #debian-qt-kde now, they don't accept "almost complete strangers"17:43
* Hobbsee nods17:43
jpatrickMez: I'll do it if you don't wanna17:43
Mezsup to ypou, ama t work atm though, so cant do anything17:44
jpatrickI'll do it then :)17:44
DaSkreechPpor annma :-(17:46
ugaDaSkreech: uh? poor annma?17:49
ugaDaSkreech: poor you, that won't get to see her ;))17:50
DaSkreechI wouldn't anyway :)17:51
DaSkreechThough with the EU asking for help I may pop over and see her :)17:51
DaSkreechHelp out with the children on weekends :-D17:51
ugaheh, you don't know what you're saying17:53
ugakeeping those under control is harder than coding the kernel in assembly ;)17:54
DaSkreechWho said anything about control?17:54
jpatrickHobbsee: how do we deal with XSBC-Original-Maintainer in merges then?17:56
Hobbseejpatrick: we keep it?17:57
Hobbseejpatrick: yo've seen the maintainer spec?17:57
jpatrickbut Debian doesn't have it17:57
DaSkreechI just found Ctrl+D in konqui18:18
jpatrickfunny, I found that on my keyboard..18:19
=== AndrewYoung is now known as Vaelen
DaSkreechI sure hope they fix that in gwenview418:36
DaSkreechHow is rraphink different from raphink ?19:42
jpatrickone has another 'r'19:45
ScottKRiddell: Just got my UDS plan sorted.  I'm registered now.19:57
ubotuTuxracer is now renamed Planet Penguin Racer! The package is planetpenguin-racer in !universe. Enjoy.20:06
ugaDaSkreech: add this one to the fork list ;) http://www.extremetuxracer.com/?screenshots20:10
ugaI tried searching for ppracer, and I found a dead website (gone)20:10
DaSkreechYeah I know20:10
ugathis one seems to be alive20:10
DaSkreechI recalled that factoid which is why I checked for it20:11
DaSkreech but there is no package for ETR so I guess I'll have to wait till that happens to change that :)20:12
ubotuInformation about games on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Games and http://www.icculus.org/lgfaq/gamelist.php20:12
ugaDaSkreech: I wish somebody adds _code_ to it rather than new graphics20:12
ugait looks like the game remains pretty similar to the original one...20:12
ugajust levels and new gfx added20:14
DaSkreechuga: Yeah we were just lamenting that there are no racing gmaes with network code in the Foss world20:14
DaSkreech Strategy and Frozen Bubble seems to be it20:15
ugahave you digged into http://www.happypenguin.org?20:15
DaSkreechWell For Tuxracer I think it's honestly nostalgia20:15
ugahwo about tuxkart? =)20:15
ugadidn't that do networking?20:15
DaSkreechI have it load when I login into KDE :)20:15
DaSkreechIt allows multiple peopel to play on the same computer20:16
ugaoh okay20:16
DaSkreechHow come the official Ubuntu games arm gets away with doing everything in portugese ?20:17
ugawow, this "FIFE" engine thing looks impressive20:18
RiddellScottK: when are you going to be here?20:19
DaSkreechRiddell: Any idea if the Live CD will support LVm in hardy ?20:21
ScottKRiddell: Sunday PM, Monday, and Tuesday.20:21
RiddellDaSkreech: dunno, ask evand20:22
RiddellScottK: groovy20:22
ScottKThe prices at the conference hotel are, um, stunning.  I'm staying about a mile away for substantially less.20:22
Riddellprobably a good choice20:23
nixternalRiddell: you are already there?20:23
nixternaland what email did you CC me on?20:23
RiddellI'm here, used the e-mail address from launchpad20:26
jpatricknixternal: do you have some time for revu? :)20:34
nixternaljpatrick: in a few minutes I will...link me homeskillet20:38
_StefanS_Tonio_: hey, did you survive that important meeting?20:38
nixternalRiddell: would you mind if I created a poll, which I want to use mainly to find out what our users like, dislike, and would like to see in the future? maybe have something to base further studies on in the future?20:38
nixternalI will word it as to not implement Kubuntu in doing the study in order to incorporate what people want...I just want to know what is really popular in our repos, and see how users are using their machines20:39
jpatricknixternal: I've +1ed apachelogger's packages: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=426 , http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=425 , just need another and I'll upload20:40
nixternalPeople are interested, because the big-shots listen. You get people like the SABDFL himself in there fielding questions for two hours. You get guys like Jono Bacon, Rich Johnson, and John Riddell who sit around and joke with people, and listen to complaints and take suggestions.20:40
nixternalthat is a comment from a guy to the InfoWorld rubbish that went on20:40
nixternalRiddell: that right there man is a huge feeling of accomplishment!20:40
_StefanS_anyone here running the new fglrx ?20:42
_StefanS_I was wondering how fast the logout appears once you have clicked kmenu->Logout20:43
* DaSkreech tries to deflate nixternal's head20:47
jpatricknixternal: there will always be stupid people in this world :(20:48
jpatrickand they're just jealous that we > (them * 2000)20:49
nixternalone thing I do like, that guys writing style...he can really write a good article...but his little test has backfired...what do you expect from a cause and effect article really20:49
nixternalI think he could write a novel easily, but technical writing might not be his cup of tea20:50
Tm_TI wonder if manchicken will wake up soon20:50
manchickenTm_T: Well if your momma wouldn't keep me up so late... heh20:50
manchickenSorry, I couldn't resist a good momma joke.20:50
manchickenIt's a weakness, it really is.20:50
DaSkreechCan someone throw me the URL for the Gutsy Live Cd20:51
nixternalya, manchicken, Freddy, and Eddy always get me with a mama joke...it is expected now when I am around them20:51
Tm_Tmanchicken: have you seen http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/art/gpl3-grey-02.png20:51
DaSkreechmommachicken ?20:51
manchickenTm_T: Yes, I have.  It's pretty neat :)20:52
manchickenIt just doesn't work too well on my resolution (1280x800 IIRC).20:52
nixternalmanchicken: mine either, but that isn't stopping me from a little surprise for those of us w/o 430284032843208 x 308430284324 widescreens :)20:53
Tm_Tmanchicken: heh =)20:53
* Tm_T has old 19" tube20:53
manchickenI'm gonna have to buy an imac for work.  Yuck.20:53
manchickenBut that's the cost of going independent.20:53
nixternalmanchicken: can you buy me one too?20:58
nixternalmanchicken: I can get you a deal through my school, $200 off if you really need to get one20:58
nixternalit is either $200 off or more..can't remember20:58
nixternalI can price on if you are interested20:58
DaSkreechHow do I pop up ktorrent from the sys tray21:00
DaSkreechWithout a mouse?21:00
nixternalmanchicken: which iMac were you looking at?21:02
manchickenI get to deduct it.21:02
manchickenThe 20" 2.0GHz21:02
DaSkreechdamn :-(21:02
manchickenIt's a business expense, so I don't have to pay income tax on it.21:02
manchickenWell, I'm going to add some stuff to it, but it'll be about $1.3K21:02
nixternallike what?21:03
nixternalomg, memory for an iMac is ridiculous21:03
nixternal$750 for a 4GB upgrade21:05
mhbgood evening folks21:05
mhbit's time to do some productive work! :o)21:05
ubotuUbuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues - Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate21:05
nixternalgot my Gutsy CDs today21:05
manchickenI don't know if I need 4GB21:06
nixternalnot for $750 you don't21:06
manchicken2GB should be fine.21:06
nixternalyou could almost buy another iMac for that price21:06
mhb4GB? what for?21:06
nixternalmemory for an iMac21:06
mhb1GB is enough unless you want some java hacking21:06
* ScottK isn't suprised. Buy proprietary hardware and ...21:06
mhbor more VMs at once21:07
nixternalmhb: don't you disrespect Java hacking...it pays the bills nicely!21:07
mhbnixternal: sure, no problem with that21:07
mhbnixternal: it's just that it eats memory fast21:07
manchickenI'm gonna be doing parallels.21:07
mhbah, right. You're going to run OS X on it :o)21:07
nixternalman, Parallels is sweet21:07
manchickenI may do vmware fusion.  dunno.21:08
nixternalI seen a guy at the uni and I could see the Windows XP start menu, the Kubuntu kicker and the OS X top bar..I was like wth kind of wallpaper is that :)21:08
manchickenI just want to make sure I have everything I need to test.21:09
mhbof course, what crazy person would have an Apple hardware and run Kubuntu on it21:09
* mhb *coughs*21:09
manchickenIf I'm gonna do indy work I need to have every browser that a prospective client would want me to test on.21:09
* manchicken hugs Kubuntu21:09
manchickenHe didn't mean it baby.21:09
* mhb considers wishing for Leopard for christmas21:10
mhbbut I'm not sure if it's worth it21:10
mhbon the contrary - I am quite sure it isn't21:10
mhbvirtual desktop is nothing I can be amazed with21:10
manchickenEven after the imac purchase, my system76 will still be my primary machine.21:11
manchickenI only spend about 30% or so of my work time in my office.21:12
manchickenAnd if I'm doing indy work, I'm hoping to spend maybe a little more, but not much more.21:12
manchickenWorking in coffee shops is fun.21:12
nixternalno, coffee shops are fun, working isn't :)21:18
manchickenDepends on the work :)21:19
ugacoffee shop assistant? =)21:19
manchickenMy dad and I are thinking of starting our own business in the next year or two.21:19
nixternalI have always wanted to be a Chicken Acupuncturist21:19
* uga does alcohol test to nixternal 21:20
ugais one allowed to code and svn commit in this state? =)21:20
manchickenThat's the nice thing about indy contracting.21:20
manchickenThey can't tell me when to work, how to work, or what to work with.21:21
manchickenIf they do, then they have to deal with withholding my taxes and paying 3.5% of my social security contribution.21:21
manchickenSee?  The IRS does do SOME good every once in a while :)21:21
manchickenw00t!  Emergency broadcast test!  It's my favorite show!21:25
Riddellwin 9621:29
Riddellnixternal: yes that's fine21:29
mhbhi Riddell21:29
Riddelllet us review it before you publish21:29
Riddellhi mhb21:29
nixternalRiddell: thanks21:29
nixternalRiddell: sure21:29
mhbRiddell: how's USA?21:29
Riddellfeeling a bit jet lagged and then some, I think I had too much free whisky this morning21:30
manchickenRiddell: See if you can get yourself some Wild Turkey Rare Breed whiskey.21:31
mhbRiddell: would you please blog about kubuntu-related events for us unlucky folks at home?21:31
mhbI mean the fosscamp events, which are not logged AFAIK21:32
Riddellsure, i'll try21:32
mhbthank you very much21:32
nixternalRiddell: oh man, if you get Wild Turkey, you better wear a few pair of undies underneath the kilt21:37
nixternala diaper preferably...only big hillbillies like manchicken can drink that stuff w/o the really bad side effects :)21:37
manchickennixternal: Just because you can't handle a whiskey with flavor to it doesn't mean that Scotsmen can't :P21:40
manchickenRare breed is an excellent whiskey.21:40
* n8k99 shudders at teh thought of manchicken wearing a diaper21:40
nixternaloh ya, I forgot about the whole "Scotsman" thing21:40
manchickenAlthough one of the whiskeys that someone gave me at UDS Sevilla was probably the best I've had.21:41
manchickenRiddell: Don't worry about nixternal.  Suburbanites have a history of having a hard time dealing with anything beyond Wal-Mart when it comes to excitement.  :P21:41
nixternalmanchicken: ummmmmmmmm21:42
nixternalsuburbanite here, yes, but you...wow, cornfieldanite :)21:42
* manchicken is waiting.21:42
manchickenheh, I've got woods and a river, too.21:42
manchickenAnd oodles of prairie preserve :)21:43
manchickennixternal: You're just jealous that I don't have to stab kill or mame to find a parking spot :P21:43
nixternalwe have Fermi and that other place 2 miles from my house that I always forget the name of21:43
nixternalmanchicken: forget parking spot, I have to stab, kill, or mame just to put the truck in "drive"21:44
manchickenI like my small town.21:44
manchickenIt's nice.21:44
n8k99if i should up for a day or two at UDS Boston, will that be okay?21:44
manchickenAnd I don't have any corrupt idiot politicians at the local level.21:44
manchickenn8k99: No.  You will be shot on sight.21:44
n8k99i'll feel like i'm in my hometown!21:45
manchickenn8k99: They do aim to please.21:45
n8k99aim. haha. very punny21:45
nixternaln8k99: your hometown doesn't shoot on sight, because if they did, then innocent people wouldn't be getting killed...silly drive by shooters21:46
manchickenThey only shoot people they can't see?21:46
n8k99only if they are innocent21:46
nixternalyou guys didn't know? holding a gun sideways immproves aim21:47
mhball the guilty terrorists like me are outside the U.S.21:47
nixternalwow, talk about noobs :p21:47
mhbso they have to shoot the innocents21:47
nixternalmhb: hahahahaha, I am here inside the U.S....well I am not guilty yet21:47
n8k99nixternal you just haven't been told you are guilty yet21:48
manchickenmhb: Quiet Al Queda.21:49
nixternalmhb: I feel that if they would let Jono in, then you should definitely be allowed as well :o21:49
manchickenmhb: I called my legislators on this.21:50
manchickenBarack Obama actually promised me that he'd try to fix that if he was elected prez in 2008.21:50
nixternalunless your laptop is made of C4 that is21:50
nixternalRon Paul in '08!21:50
* nixternal hurries away quickly!21:50
manchickenThe guy actually listened to me while I explained the situation.21:50
* manchicken shoots nixternal.21:51
* n8k99 falls down, innocently21:51
nixternalhahaha, on "My Name is Earl" last night, she got mad at the stripper girl for tricking her...and she is like, damn I have been fooled by an alien, I am voting in 0821:51
* ScottK low crawls to the corner21:52
nixternaln8k99: gahahah! pwnd21:52
manchickenMaybe we should all vote for Colbert.21:52
nixternalmanchicken: that shot was close...I am in the midwest, and n8k99 is on the east coast...you need to twist the gun sideways a little more, and you will be well on your way21:53
nixternalI can't stand Colbert21:53
manchickenEverybody should just write in Steven Colbert.21:53
manchickennixternal: And I should speed up.21:53
nixternalI don't like Maher either, but at least there is some good things on his show21:53
nixternalI just get tired of the whole "Bush and Cheney sit in the basement and come up with evil plans and carry them out"21:54
manchickenDid anybody see CSI:NY on Wednesday?  They have secondlife CSI now.  I wonder how much Linden Labs paid CBS for that one.21:54
manchickenWhat, they don't?21:54
nixternalyou know, I did catch that, and I had think it over for a minute to realise that I knew what Second Life was21:54
nixternalthere isn't one good politician in the US, hell there isn't even 1 bad pollitician, just thousands of pieces of trash21:55
nixternalI will once again, vote Mickey Mouse..unless like in 1991 or whatever it was (Bush Sr. vs. Clinton) where they removed the write in portion21:55
manchickenSweet, my client is using openvpn.21:56
manchickenI didn't want to have to screw around with IPSec or some fancy client.21:56
nixternalMickey Mouse uses OpenVPN21:56
nixternalmanchicken: oh man, do you read the Onion at all?21:57
nixternalwell they were on campus a couple of weeks ago, and 3 students were picked to write an article in the onion-like satire21:58
nixternalone of them was "Obamma finds out his mom is white"21:58
nixternalI didn't know that it was satire, and I was sitting there like WTH21:58
nixternalthe person who did the article, just so happens to be the president of the DuPage County Obama whatever it is called...I talked to him the other day and he had me rolling21:59
nixternalhe reminded me of Robin Williams on Man of the Year21:59
nixternalwe had Rudy last week for a town hall meeting, and for a couple of hours, all you could hear were a ton of people booing and chanting22:00
nixternaljpatrick: I have approved both packages22:07
jpatrickshall I upload?22:07
nixternalno no22:08
nixternalhold on22:08
nixternalI just noticed his Homepage:22:08
nixternalit needs to be under Description22:08
nixternal .22:08
nixternal  Homepage: http://www.22:08
jpatricknixternal: new Debian thingy they made22:08
jpatrickthey changed it so it goes under Standards-Version22:09
nixternalalrighty then, if that is the new fad, then it is good22:09
nixternalI am glad you told me that22:09
nixternalso I need to go through my packages and fix that22:09
jpatrickapachelogger_: uploaded both22:18
jpatrickI'm off to bed22:19
nosrednaekimnight jpatrick22:19
BigPickGood afternoon all.22:33
nosrednaekimhey BigPick22:35
BigPickDoes anyone know the status of the feisty->gutsy update tools.22:35
BigPickThat is, are we any closer to getting them to be stable?22:36
mhbBigPick: do you have any bugreports in mind?22:39
BigPickDangit, my internet is all wonky.22:42
mhb23:40 < mhb> BigPick: do you have any bugreports in mind?22:43
BigPickIndeed, 10718822:45
BigPickBug: 10718822:45
ubotuLaunchpad bug 107188 in update-manager "[MASTER] [kde] Upgrade tool crashed with " Cannot allocate memory" (edgy -> feisty)" [High,Confirmed]22:45
BigPickdangit, how does that bot work...22:45
mhbBigPick: you write bug 122:46
ubotuLaunchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/122:46
mhbdoes kde bug 151304 still work?22:47
ubotuKDE bug 151304 in general "game list drawing problem" [Normal,New] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15130422:47
mhbBigPick: now you have a tutorial :o)22:47
BigPickI have been struggling with several others to find a resolution to this issue. To date, I have been unable to successfully update any of my three computers that run kubuntu.22:47
mhbBigPick: I think your best bet is to watch the bug report for news (subscribe to it)22:49
mhbBigPick: this bug should (in theory) be fixed by the Canonical developers, who created this update-manager tool22:49
mhbBigPick: so I am afraid no Kubuntu volunteer developer will find the time for fixing this, even more so because they do not really know the code22:50
=== wpickard is now known as BigPick
mhbooh, kubuntu 7.10 CD cover on planet23:00

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