[00:04] <pwnguin> hurray.
[00:04]  * pwnguin just switched from ipw to iwl
[00:33] <bddebian> Heya gang
[00:40] <s1024kb> very happy to be here... this is my first time.
[00:41] <s1024kb> Thank you my Mentor.
[01:04] <bddebian> pkern: Are you around?
[01:28] <bddebian> Heya persia
[01:28] <persia> hi bddebian
[01:54] <imbrandon> anyone seen jcastro ?
[01:58] <ajmitch> not today
[01:58] <ajmitch> what's he done now?
[02:00] <imbrandon> nadda was just gonna ask him bout somethin
[03:20] <nxvl> wich package has the binary shares-admin?
[03:21] <nxvl> nevermind i just find it
[03:21] <persia> nxvl: Try `apt-file search shares-admin`.  You may need to precede this with `sudo apt-file update`, or possibly even with `sudo aptitude install apt-file`
[03:21] <bddebian> gnome-system-tools
[03:22]  * persia thinks that nxvl has been hit by no-longer-necessary fish and fishing rods :)
[03:23] <nxvl> i used packages.ubuntu.com
[03:23] <nxvl> :D
[03:23] <imbrandon> packages.u.c is grossly out of date most of the time
[03:24] <persia> imbrandon: For the development distribution, or for everything?
[03:24] <imbrandon> normaly the dev distro
[03:25] <nxvl> imbrandon: i'm parching a gutsy bug
[03:25] <nxvl> patching*
[03:25] <persia> imbrandon: Do you happen to know how often refreshes Contents.gz?
[03:25] <persia> s/en re/en it re/
[03:25] <imbrandon> no ideas, i know at most daily, probbably less
[03:26] <imbrandon> when i complained about it, they said "just use launchpad" /me forgets who "they" are atm
[03:27] <persia> nxvl: It's not as important yet, but as hardy develops, it will become increasingly important that you also check against hardy, as otherwise your fixes may not be suitable for the current development release, and may not be able to be applied to the current distributed release as the issue remains in the development release.
[03:27] <persia> imbrandon: Does LP even have an interface for searching Contents.gz?
[03:28] <imbrandon> i dont think so, this was wabout searching packages themselfs
[03:28] <persia> Ah...
[03:33] <nxvl> persia: it's kind of important error
[03:33] <nxvl> persia: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/157174
[03:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157174 in gnome-system-tools ""browsable" instead of "browseable" in smb.conf " [Undecided,Confirmed]
[03:33] <nxvl> persia: it makes that shares-admin don't work
[03:34] <bmk789> where do i submit a package that isnt in the repos yet?
[03:34] <persia> nxvl: Sure.  I don't mean to say it shouldn't be fixed in gutsy, only that the policy requires that fixes to gutsy must first be fixed in hardy, so it's good practice to check against hardy when fixing a bug.
[03:35] <nxvl> persia: oh! ok, ok
[03:35] <persia> bmk789: REVU is the typical method, although Debian also works at this point.  Some guidelines are available in the Preparing New Packages section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[03:36] <bmk789> persia: ill check it out thanks
[03:37] <nxvl> how do i change the importance of a bug report? do i can?
[03:38] <persia> nxvl: You'll need to be a member of the QA Team.  If you're not currently a member, try working with the BugSquad for a while (#ubuntu-bugs is a good contact point), and once you can demonstrate good knowledge of the triage process, you'll be approved for the QA team.
[03:39] <nxvl> persia: oh, ok, thnx
[03:39] <nxvl> i enjoy more patching bugs than triagging them :P
[03:40] <persia> nxvl: Personally, I tend to do both.  Find a bug that needs work.  If there's enough information for a fix, mark it triaged / in-progress, and fix it.  If there's not enough information, work with the submitter to get enough information, and then proceed from the previous condition.
[03:41] <nxvl> persia: yes, i'm doing so too, but i enjoy more fixing bux than triaging them :D
[03:41] <persia> nxvl: You won't lose any points with the BugSquad if you fix all the bugs you touch - you just have to demonstrate an understanding of the different "Importances".
[03:43] <vileda> where is the difference between "Recommends" and "Suggest" in a debain/control file?
[03:44] <persia> vileda: "Recommends" is used when any sensible person would install the other package as well.  "Suggests" is used when the other package could be useful, but not everyone wants it.
[03:44] <persia> vileda: More information is available from http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html
[03:45] <vileda> persia: thank you
[03:45] <persia> Err.  Rather http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps
[03:46] <bmk789> is a .deb the same format as a .tar or .tar.gz?
[03:48] <persia> bmk789: No.  It's an ar file, with the contents organised in a specific manner.
[03:48] <bmk789> ah thats what i needed to know, thanks
[03:54] <bmk789> ok i extracted the contents of a deb, modified a configuration file so it would require the dependancy, and now i need to repackage it, how do i turn that folder of the package's files into a deb again?
[03:54] <nxvl> mmm
[03:55] <nxvl> how do dpatch really work, i don't find anything on packaging guide
[03:56] <persia> bmk789: That's really not the preferred method of doing things :)  You probably want to read the dpkg documentation, which can help automate unpacking and packing, and may want to look at modifying the source package as an alternative.
[03:56] <persia> nxvl: There's pretty good documentation in /usr/share/doc/dpatch
[03:57] <nxvl> thnx
[03:58] <bmk789> this package is so different though, theres no debian folder, just a control.tar.gz, a data.tar.gz, and a debian-binary
[04:00] <bddebian> Ugh, hideous
[04:00] <persia> bmk789: You're looking at a binary package.  The source package would contain a layout that is more familiar.
[04:01] <bmk789> ok i guess ill play with the source tarball and see if i can figure out how to work it
[04:02] <nxvl> holy, i confirm that the bug was invalid :(
[04:02] <nxvl> moving to next one
[04:04] <TechnoViking> I'm trying to make a package for the liberation font, I was wondering how how to figure out the deforma hints for the package
[04:05] <persia> nxvl: See: you're triaging :)
[04:08] <nxvl> persia: yes, and was kind of inscructive and fun :D
[04:09] <nxvl> how does it work with merges, can i do any merge i want or there are some rules?
[04:12] <persia> nxvl: There are guidelines.  Typically, merges are done by one of the people who typically works on the package.  This may be the last person who touched it, or it may be someone else listed in the changelog as having made an Ubuntu change.
[04:12] <persia> nxvl: It's good manners to allow those parties to merge, as often there are other changes or adjustments the packages could use, and such work will be done together at the beginning of a cycle.
[04:13] <persia> nxvl: For very trivial merges, this guideline is somewhat relaxed.
[04:14] <persia> nxvl: Further, it's good practice to always open a bug when working on a merge, to notify package subscribers that the work is being done.  lpbugs.py is a great help for this.
[04:14]  * persia rushes off
[04:15] <ScottK> nxvl: You can also see status of a lot of merges on the dad site listed in /topic.  In some cases people will mark merges people are free to take over.
[04:17] <bmk789> isnt there a tool that generates the rules file automagically?
[04:18] <bddebian> For new packages, dh_make will do some of that for you
[04:18] <nxvl> ScottK: how do they mark them?
[04:19] <bmk789> bddebian: thank you
[04:19] <ScottK> There's a comments field.
[04:19] <bddebian> I thought as of Gutsy it was a merge free for all?
[04:19] <ScottK> If they definitely want to keep them, they sometime say so, if they want someone else to take it, they say so.
[04:19] <ScottK> bddebian: I think the agreement was it's nice to ask.
[04:19] <ajmitch> of course, assuming that everyone uses the same tool
[04:20] <ScottK> ajmitch: Of course, which they don't.
[04:20] <ScottK> Which is why I don't ascribe any meaning to no information.
[04:21] <bddebian> ScottK: Well that certainly wasn't what it felt like ;-)
[04:21] <ScottK> bddebian: Understand.
[04:58] <Jaearess> Is it possible for a non-MOTU to help with merging?
[05:03] <persia> Jaearess: Sure, although there's lots else to do as well.
[05:05] <bddebian> Hey, I thought you rushed off? :-)
[05:06] <effie_jayx> the packaging 101 log is not right... does anyone have a log file from the repeat of dholback's talk?
[05:06] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:07] <persia> The state of "rushing off" directly implies motion, and therefore a possible destination, often identical to the starting place in the modern world (although some time may pass in the interim)
[05:07] <Jaearess> persia: Okay. What's a good way for a newbie to get involved with MOTU/packaging?
[05:08] <persia> Jaearess: I tend to point at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, and suggest that one start with looking at bugs.  It's likely there is a package you use that either doesn't work, or doesn't do what you want.
[05:08] <bddebian> persia: You are making my head hurt :-)
[05:08] <persia> Making a patch for this is often fairly rewarding, and can be a good introduction to the processes and procedures for getting things done.
[05:09] <persia> bddebian: My apologies.  I'll have to seek an alternate mind control ray provider.
[05:09] <bddebian> hehe
[05:09] <LaserJock> heah, can somebody have a look at bug #124376
[05:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124376 in atomix "package atomix-data 2.14.0-1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script killed by signal (Interrupt)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124376
[05:09] <LaserJock> how would you guys triage that?
[05:10] <Jaearess> persia: Okay, thank you. I'll look into that. :)
[05:10] <persia> LaserJock: I'd look at the postinst for an obvious issue, and otherwise ask the reporter to try installing again, as it may have been a transient issue.
[05:12] <persia> Jaearess: If you have any questions, this channel is a good place to ask.  If you're having difficulty finding good bugs, the "patch" tag often indicates that there is a patch, which may only need a little attention, the "packaging" tag often means that the necessary work is fairly small, and restricted to the standard packaging files, and the "bitesize" tag indicates that someone thought it would be easy to fix.
[05:12] <LaserJock> geeze, it's gonna take me a little bit to get used to typing hardy instead of gutsy
[05:12] <bddebian> heh
[05:12] <persia> Now to find the completion term.  If gutsy::hardy, then gusty::?
[05:16] <LaserJock> persia: I have a hard time believing that that bug is real. atomix is in Main and is shipped with Edubuntu. If it's broken I would think we'd hear about it more
[05:16] <LaserJock> I just install atomix in a hardy pbuilder and it was fine and the postinst looks pretty straightforward
[05:16] <LaserJock> so should it be Incomplete or Invalid ?
[05:17] <persia> LaserJock: I suspect that the reported ran into OOM, automatix, or a Ctrl-C, but tend to check the packages to keep my face relatively clear of egg.  If the reporter can confirm it cannot be reproduced in their environment, "Invalid" sounds good.  If the reporter can confirm, then something odd is happening, and ought to be trapped.
[05:17] <persia> (and "Incomplete" whilst waiting for the response about reproduction)
[05:18] <LaserJock> well, manchicken reported it, I doubt he'd be running automatix
[05:18] <LaserJock> I suspect just something funky :-)
[05:30] <ajmitch> hello LaserJock :)
[05:34] <nxvl> when i suscribe a bug to ubuntu-universe-sponsors i need to change it to Confirmed, didn't i?
[05:37] <persia> nxvl: There are guidelines on the appropriate bug status settings available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue (which someone should hit with the pretty stick)
[05:51] <nxvl> lucas: ping
[06:08] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[06:12] <tonyyarusso> postfix is preferred over sendmail, correct?
[06:12] <ajmitch> anything is preferred over sendmail
[06:12] <Fujitsu> Haha.
[06:12] <tonyyarusso> heh, ok
[06:13] <tonyyarusso> And is Dovecot the program of choice for POP/IMAP server?
[06:14] <ion_> It’s great.
[06:14] <ion_> And its author seems to know what he’s doing security-wise.
[06:14] <tonyyarusso> That's always nice
[06:26] <LaserJock> ok, who wants to help me look at an apport-reported bug?
[06:27] <LaserJock> Bug #117568
[06:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117568 in xaos "[apport] xaos crashed with SIGSEGV in memset()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117568
[06:28] <LaserJock> the stacktrace has only 4 lines and only one has any info
[06:28] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of that
[06:30] <Fujitsu> That null address and the short stack probably indicate stack corruption, in which case it's useless.
[06:32] <coNP[uni]> Hey MOTUs, good morning!
[06:32] <persia> It may also be that no xaos-dbgsym is available from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/ddebs/pool/universe/x/, making retraces stubborn.
[06:42] <LaserJock> persia: hmm, why would there be no symbols?
[06:43] <Fujitsu> Because it hasn't been rebuilt recently, most likely.
[06:43] <LaserJock> ohhhh
[06:43] <LaserJock> right
[06:43] <LaserJock> our package is from like dapper
[06:43] <Fujitsu> Ahh.
[06:43] <persia> LaserJock: The most common reason is that it wasn't recompiled since the last reset, but in this case I think it is a case of unfortunate timing (dbgsym hiccup), as it was compiled just in July.
[06:44] <persia> LaserJock: We have a new package for gutsy: 3.2.5ubuntu1 vs. 3.2.3ubuntu2 for feisty
[06:46] <LaserJock> oh hmm
[06:47] <LaserJock> maybe I was looking at another package that hadn't bumped versions since dapper
[06:47] <LaserJock> in any case
[06:47] <persia> LaserJock: Can you reproduce the crash?  If so, you can make your own -dbgsym with a recompile and pkg-create-dbgsym.
[06:47] <LaserJock> what do you do with these apport bugs like this? they almost always seems like one-off crashes
[06:48] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Unless they're reproducible, Invalid them.
[06:48] <persia> I usually ask the submitter to try again, and if they can reproduce, ask them to install -dbgsym & get a backtrace.  If they don't after a couple months, I let the bug die.
[06:49] <persia> Fujitsu: There's heaps of bugs that are architecture- or configuration- dependent.  Just rejecting because you can't reproduce locally is a little firm.
[06:49] <Fujitsu> persia: I meant the submitter reproducing.
[06:49] <Fujitsu> Sorry, should have been more clear.
[06:49] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  My apologies.  I should have assumed.
[06:50] <Fujitsu> Not really.
[06:50] <LaserJock> hmm, submitters rarely respond :(
[06:50] <Fujitsu> Has Janitor been accidentally turned on again yet, to help with our bug problem?
[06:50] <persia> LaserJock: Sometimes they do.  Often I find it's another person reporting a duplicate that sends me the information, and I let them hijack the bug.
[06:50] <LaserJock> it was accidently like a day or two ago
[06:51] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: About 24 hours ago.
[06:51] <LaserJock> yeah, that might be right
[06:51] <LaserJock> I asked kiko about it
[06:51] <Fujitsu> I still find it a bit hard to believe that this cron job magically restored itself.
[06:51] <Fujitsu> Twice.
[06:51] <LaserJock> I think they must've had an "accident" trying to rollout
[06:51]  * persia imagines it runs in the development environment, and that the release process is still a little wonky
[06:52] <Fujitsu> Did they end up restoring the status of the old lot yet? I didn't see any emails... or was that the point, that it would make more annoying changes silently?
[06:53] <LaserJock> I believe they've reverted everything
[06:53]  * persia thought they were supposed to be restored without bugmail notifications, but hasn't seen any automatically reverted bugs yet.
[06:53] <Fujitsu> Grr.
[06:53] <Fujitsu> So they're corrupting the only semi-complete history of bugs. Lovely.
[06:55] <LaserJock> somehow it's always a little depressing to do Edubuntu bug triage
[06:56] <persia> LaserJock: Why?
[06:56] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: WHy?
[06:56] <LaserJock> because
[06:56] <persia> ...
[06:56] <LaserJock> nobody looks after the packages and they are in Main
[06:56] <LaserJock> they'd probably get triaged better in Universe
[06:56] <Fujitsu> Ah, lovely.
[06:57] <persia> Is there a huge queue of sponsor requests waiting on the packages?  If not, I don't understand how main/universe matters.
[06:57]  * Fujitsu looks at little outside universe/multiverse other than bugs without packages.
[06:57] <Fujitsu> Or bugs that affect me :P
[06:58]  * persia looks at the RC buglist & subscribed packages only
[06:58] <LaserJock> persia: people triage Universe bugs, at least some
[06:58] <persia> LaserJock: Perhaps Edubuntu needs more attention from BugSquad?
[06:59] <LaserJock> perhaps
[06:59] <LaserJock> it seems that I'm the only one that does anything
[07:00] <persia> LaserJock: In that case, you definitely need a team.  Grab the next person who asks "How can I help" - reserved just for you :)
[07:01] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: What about the rest of the Edubuntu team?
[07:02] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: what team? ;-)
[07:02] <LaserJock> Oliver handles LTSP bugs
[07:02] <LaserJock> other than that, it's pretty much me
[07:03] <LaserJock> and well, you know how active I'm not
[07:04] <LaserJock> there's a decent number of bugs on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
[07:06] <LaserJock> ok, how about a bug where the report just reports general crashing
[07:06]  * persia grumbles that users who can determine that I am the right person to contact about a package should be able to determine that launchpad is the right place to report bugs.
[07:06] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: ask for a backtrace.
[07:07] <LaserJock> not just with the package he/she reported against
[07:07] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: haha
[07:07] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[07:07] <persia> LaserJock: That's invalid.  The submitter has to tell us something...
[07:07] <Fujitsu> persia: You'd think so, but I get contacted at least once a week.
[07:08] <persia> Fujitsu: What do you think causes that.  Changelog entries?
[07:08] <Fujitsu> I think so.
[07:08] <LaserJock> how do they get changelog entries and not know about Launchpad?
[07:08] <Fujitsu> Last Uploader on LP, perhaps.
[07:09] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: cat /usr/share/doc/blah/changelog.Debian.gz?
[07:09] <persia> LaserJock: /usr/share/docs/foo/changelog.Debian.gz
[07:09] <persia> Fujitsu: "Last Uploader" has the pretty "Bugs" button, with the nice "Report a Bug" button, so I'd be suspicious
[07:10] <Fujitsu> persia: True, and it has even been missing for the past month, so probably isn't it.
[07:11] <persia> I actually sort of liked "last uploader", because it made upstreams send me notes.
[07:11] <LaserJock> well, yeah, but if you're looking around at changelog.Debian.gz I would think you would know better
[07:11]  * Fujitsu looks for a couple more PPA bugs so he can take over the `Latest bugs reported' portlet.
[07:12] <persia> LaserJock: poke nixternal & bluekuja.  They're around a lot, and members of your triage team :)
[07:12] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It may mean they're from a Debian background, in which case the Changed-By is probably the maintainer, so best to email.
[07:12] <persia> LaserJock: Users ought know better, but perhaps we're missing documentation in the right place.  In an attempt to make it easy, we may have missed those who don't expect it to be easy.
[07:12] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: perhaps, but I'd think they at least look at Maintainer
[07:13] <LaserJock> well, it's not explicitly the wrong action
[07:13] <LaserJock> but it doesn't seem like the best action
[07:13] <persia> The problem is that Maintainer sends them to a moderated list, and they get a note that the email didn't go through, so they might be looking for an alternate solution.
[07:13] <Fujitsu> persia: Ah, that is true.
[07:14] <LaserJock> yes, that is difficult
[07:14]  * persia ponders a ubuntu-universe-maintainers mailing list that just feeds an archive bot with spam.
[07:14] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:14] <persia> (someone should troll through it occasionally to pull out useful reports, but...)
[07:14] <Fujitsu> And then there are the people who come to MOTU Media for help, because the team maintaining all universe packages is called motumedia...
[07:15] <persia> Fujitsu: That's just requires someone to change the registered email address for "MOTU Media"
[07:16] <LaserJock> bah, hasn't that been fixed yet?
[07:16] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Oh, the team merging code landed in 1.1.10.
[07:16] <Fujitsu> But the person->team conversion code is a while off yet.
[07:16] <Fujitsu> So it's still blocked.
[07:17] <LaserJock> well, we could at least have some DB fudging
[07:17] <Fujitsu> It hasn't happened yet, so I doubt it would happen now.
[07:17] <persia> LaserJock: You could ask an Answer :)
[07:18] <Fujitsu> persia: I love their chosen terminology.
[07:18] <LaserJock> heh
[07:18] <LaserJock>  --with-pthread=yes      enables SMP support (experimental)
[07:19] <LaserJock> does ^^ sound like a ok thing to enable?
[07:19] <Fujitsu> Experimental? I doubt it.
[07:19] <LaserJock> would it affect non-SMP kernels?
[07:19] <Fujitsu> Yes, because it will probably start a bazillion threads anyway.
[07:20] <persia> LaserJock: In general, SMP without thread support doesn't get much benefit from SMP.  That doesn't mean the developers wrote thread-safe code...
[07:20] <Fujitsu> (all our kernels are SMP but -386, but the SMPness isn't what matters much)
[07:21] <LaserJock> alright, well I guess I'll wishlist this
[07:22] <LaserJock> seems like people are just trying to justify the shiny new procs they bought ;-)
[07:25] <LaserJock> bah
[07:26]  * LaserJock jumps through the "register a project so you can add a bug tracker" hoop
[07:26] <persia> LaserJock: Don't forget to repeat the steps every six months :)
[07:26] <LaserJock> what the heck
[07:27] <LaserJock> I thought there was a link to do it from the bug tracker part
[07:27] <persia> Not anymore.  That was removed.
[07:27] <Fujitsu> I think the easy registration feature is coming soon, though it has been deferred a couple of times.
[07:28] <LaserJock> bah
[07:28] <LaserJock> this evening is giving me plenty of things to talk to kiko about ;-)
[07:28] <Fujitsu> Haha, bug #78911
[07:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 78911 in malone "Prohibit epic bug descriptions" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78911
[07:28] <persia> Fujitsu: I'm not in a rush.  If the Janitor gets fixed, I'll be fairly happy for a bit.
[07:28] <Fujitsu> Bug #127126
[07:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127126 in malone "Register a product while adding an upstream task" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127126
[07:29] <persia> What!  I *really** appreciate it when a user provides all the relevant log files and details when reporting a complex bug.
[07:30] <Fujitsu> persia: Logs more than a few lines don't really fit in the description.
[07:31] <persia> Fujitsu: Both the bugs that are getting complaints are just standard reportbug output.  It's all stuff I want to read.
[07:32] <persia> (although grep -v '^(no debugging symbols found)$' would help.)
[07:32] <persia> Ah.  Nevermind.  The limit will be 50K.  That seems reasonable.
[07:32] <Fujitsu> persia: Those files are meant to be attached, and large parts don't want to be read by humans.
[07:33] <Fujitsu> (and they are only from Edgy)
[07:33]  * persia claims to be human
[07:33] <Fujitsu> You like intepreting base64 coredumps?
[07:33] <persia> Fujitsu: Not exactly, but I've certainly looked at a few, and gained enlightenment from some.
[07:33] <LaserJock> it's his "light reading"
[07:34] <Fujitsu> persia: You gained useful information by reading a base64 blob?
[07:35] <persia> Fujitsu: Oh certainly.  Lots of times.  Usually it was meta-information to better understand the underlying content for spoofing purposes, but I've collected it from coredumps on rare occasions as well.
[07:36] <persia> Anyway, aside from the "no debugging symbols found", what in the description of bug #78872 isn't interesting to someone trying to debug it?
[07:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 78872 in totem "Crash with wmv file" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78872
[07:37] <Fujitsu> The coredump isn't human-readable, so humans probably shouldn't be subjected to it on every page view. I like the way the new apport does it.
[07:38] <LaserJock> hmm, is it logical to mark something as WontFix if there's an upstream bug report and really no way we're going to do it in Ubuntu?
[07:38] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes.
[07:38] <Fujitsu> That's what it's for.
[07:39] <LaserJock> yeah, just feels so mean
[07:40] <persia> LaserJock: Will upstream fix it?  You might just leave it "triaged", with a note that upstream is doing it, but that won't help your bugstats.
[07:40] <Fujitsu> We ideally need a list of Won't Fix bugs that are fixed upstream.
[07:41] <persia> I think GNOME usually leaves them open until they're closed upstream (except for vague feature requests)
[07:41] <LaserJock> persia: I looked at the upstream bug and they seemed at least concerned
[07:41] <LaserJock> the bug is "xaos doesn't work with beryl/compiz"
[07:41] <LaserJock> there's just no way we're going to do anything with that
[07:42] <persia> LaserJock: I'd leave open then.  Most of the bugs I file against GTK start as an LP bug against a specific application, and are open until Ubuntu gets the fix.
[07:42] <LaserJock> hmm, that seems sort of counter to the idea of WontFix
[07:42] <Fujitsu> Yes..
[07:43] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: you use qcad at all?
[07:43] <Fujitsu> The GNOME people aren't exactly the best users of statuses (think the use of Fix Committed)
[07:43] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: A few months ago I used it a bit, but not recently.
[07:43] <persia> I thought "Won't Fix" was for random wild feature requests, requests to configure things in undesireable ways, requests to reduce the security protections, etc.
[07:43] <Fujitsu> persia: No, "Won't Fix" is really "Won't Fix Here"
[07:44] <persia> Fujitsu: No, but they offer another example.
[07:44] <LaserJock> I would say those would be Invalid
[07:44] <LaserJock> Won't Fix is "yes it's a bug but we're not going to do anything about it"
[07:44]  * persia doesn't like marking "Ship a driver for my mind control interface by default" "Invalid" just because nobody is going to work on it for a while.
[07:44] <LaserJock> Invalid is "well, that's not really a bug, kthnxbye"
[07:45] <LaserJock> I'd probably go with leaving it NEW and wishlist
[07:45] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that's right
[07:45] <persia> LaserJock: Right.  Like "well, I don't know how to use the admin tools", or "something crashed, and I don't know what" or "Pressing Ctrl-C in a terminal stopped my program"
[07:45] <LaserJock> ideally we should go to a 0 NEW state
[07:45] <Fujitsu> Bugs aren't meant to remain at NEW, I don't think
[07:46] <persia> Bugs are supposed to stop being new quickly: that means nobody looked, which doesn't give the right response.
[07:46] <LaserJock> maybe that could Confirmed Wishlist then
[07:46] <LaserJock> Won't Fix *should* be "we aren't going to do anything about it in Ubuntu"
[07:46] <Fujitsu> It should be Won't Fix/Wishlist.
[07:47] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:47] <persia> LaserJock: "Confirmed (whatever)" is what GNOME uses for upstream issues (along with an upstream task)
[07:47] <Fujitsu> < mpt> This is why I wanted to call the status "Won't Fix *Here*"
[07:47] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: sometime when you've got nothing to do you think you could have a look over qcad bugs?
[07:48] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Sure, but I have very little time in the next ~month, due to final exams.
[07:48]  * persia cheers mpt, but thinks that there should still be a good way to differentiate "that's a useless bug" from "fixing that breaks too many other things, and we're not going to do so"
[07:48] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:48] <Fujitsu> persia: Yeah, that'd be good.
[07:48] <LaserJock> I guess that's where the comment that goes along with the status change is important
[07:49] <persia> LaserJock: True, but that's hard to search later.  I'll never care about useless bug reports again.  It may be worth investigating things that we're just not planning to do.
[07:50] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:50] <LaserJock> wouldn't those be Confirmed Wishlist though
[07:50] <persia> For example, xaos/compiz.  Since it works in OS X, it's probably a traceable issue, rather than a design issue.  We're just not motivated enough, or have better uses for our time.
[07:50] <LaserJock> the "things that we're just no planning to do"
[07:50] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Triaged, even.
[07:50] <Fujitsu> Oh, oops.
[07:50] <Fujitsu> Read that the wrong way.
[07:50] <persia> LaserJock: Like fixing xaos / compiz
[07:50] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:51] <LaserJock> I understand what you're saying
[07:51] <LaserJock> I would like to be as realistic as possible though
[07:51] <pkern> persia: Useless bugs could also be invalid?
[07:51] <LaserJock> if I have a Confirmed but that seems to indicate to users that we're going to do something about it
[07:51] <persia> Sure.  I just don't like "Won't Fix" for that sort of thing because it hides it by default, and someone interested might give up rather than fixing it.
[07:52] <persia> pkern: Yes.  In my ideal world of bug triage, all useless bugs are "Invalid"
[07:52] <LaserJock> whereas if I say "Won't Fix" but also "If you've got any patches, etc. feel free to reopen"
[07:52] <pkern> persia: And all of Kmos? :-P
[07:52] <LaserJock> it seems more realistic
[07:52] <pkern> LaserJock: Hm that "*I* won't fix", not "I am really against that" then, which is the notion of wontfix in Debian. ;)
[07:53] <persia> LaserJock: Sure, but if you mark it "Won't fix", even with the best comment, the initial summary views will discourage people unless they're really extra motivated.
[07:53]  * persia has inherited the Debian sense of wontfix
[07:53] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:53] <LaserJock> we need like a "future" tag
[07:53] <pkern> well afk, getting taught some tutoring skills.
[07:53] <pkern> "maybe"
[07:53] <LaserJock> for things that might be something to look at when people have more time, etc.
[07:53] <pkern> As a modifier.
[07:54] <pkern> "maybe" "won't fix"... or... "maybe" "confirmed"
[07:54] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not crazy about that
[07:54] <LaserJock> that sounds like we don't know what the heck we're talking about ;-)
[07:54] <persia> LaserJock: "Deferred".  Especially useful for bugs passed upstream.
[07:55] <LaserJock> ah, Deferred is more closely what I'm looking for
[07:55] <persia> (Debian equivalent is "Forwarded", but that doesn't make sense in the context of Malone)
[07:55] <LaserJock> I just don't want a bazillion statuses
[07:55] <persia> LaserJock: Could you officially request that?  I think the distinction between "Deferred" and "Won't Fix" is important.
[07:55] <pkern> persia: Or "deferred until upstream fixes it, I won't bother" aka "upstream". :-P
[07:56] <pkern> Deferred is overloaded IMHO.
[07:56] <pkern> deferred until vs deferred to a person
[07:56] <pkern> :-P
[07:56] <persia> pkern: I don't approve of maintainers that do that, but yes, that too.
[07:56] <LaserJock> so Deferred might be like "Won't Fix" that still shows up in bug listings?
[07:57] <pkern> s/overloaded/ambiguous/
[07:57] <LaserJock> pkern: does it matter?
[07:57] <persia> LaserJock: That sounds good to me.  Also, "Deferred" should not be so tightly restricted, but should require an open task to another project.
[07:57] <Fujitsu> pkern: "deferred until upstream fixes it, I won't bother" is what Won't Fix is meant to mean.
[07:58] <persia> pkern: We're all working together: it's never deferred to a person (although in practice it might seem that way when the teams are small)
[07:58] <siretart> ah, actually we can merge them all into a new state called 'no'
[07:58]  * persia still doesn't like that meaning of "Won't Fix"
[07:58] <LaserJock> siretart: hi!
[07:58] <siretart> heyha LaserJock
[07:59] <siretart> away (again)
[07:59] <LaserJock> persia: so basically you want to shift "Won't Fix" to mean "umm, that's silly, no thanks" and have "Deferred" to mean "We aren't going to fix it here but we'll track upstream"?
[08:00] <persia> LaserJock: With "Invalid" as "That report doesn't contain a description of a bug that will ever lead to a description"
[08:00] <lucas> nxvl: pong
[08:00] <persia> err.. "...lead to a solution"
[08:00] <LaserJock> right "Not a Bug"
[08:01] <persia> LaserJock: Well, some of them might be bugs, but we can't tell.  For example "My computer crashed".
[08:01] <nxvl> lucas: i was looking for you becauso of your post about mentors/REVU, but now i'm talking woth Signum, did you want to join us?
[08:01] <LaserJock> right, but you're saying "This is not a valid bug report"
[08:01] <LaserJock> for whatever reason
[08:02] <lucas> yes
[08:02] <lucas> where is it?
[08:02] <persia> LaserJock: Ah.  Yes to "Not a Bug Report", maybe to "Not a Bug".
[08:02] <nxvl> lucas: #debian-mentors
[08:02] <nxvl> lucas: @ oftc
[08:02] <Fujitsu> Then there are attempts to change defaults, or whatever, which should be "Won't Fix". And big things that are definitely upstream things, which are "Deferred" or so.
[08:03] <persia> Fujitsu: Right.
[08:03] <Fujitsu> Probably need to talk to mpt about this next, or maybe kiko.
[08:03]  * persia often works on upstream things, sending patches up after testing in Ubuntu
[08:03] <LaserJock> ok, so I think we need to have definable differences between the statuses
[08:04] <LaserJock> bah, I gotta get to bed
[08:04] <Fujitsu> Night.
[08:04] <LaserJock> persia: if you want maybe send an email to -motu outlining your thinking
[08:04] <LaserJock> ?
[08:05] <persia> LaserJock: If it can't be understood: "Invalid".  If it should not be fixed "Won't Fix".  If nobody is going to work on it in the foreseeable future "Deferred"
[08:05] <LaserJock> right
[08:05] <LaserJock> those are our meanings
[08:05] <LaserJock> but we also need to translate that into LP terms, as in what statuses should show up in bug listings
[08:05] <persia> LaserJock: Sure.  I'll stick it on my list - probably be about 5 or 6 hours before I have time to check all the right resources and send out a good mail.
[08:05] <LaserJock> persia: k, thanks
[08:06] <LaserJock> I'll follow up in the morning
[08:06] <persia> "Deferred" should show in the same way that "Confirmed" shows, but just clearly indicate that nothing will happen soon.
[08:08] <AnAnt> Hello, there used to be a packaging guide with Ubuntu documentation in Dapper
[08:08] <AnAnt> where is it ?
[08:10] <persia> AnAnt: There's a transition underway.  Try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide for a snapshot of the migration underway.
[08:21] <AnAnt> thanks
[08:29] <sebastian^> good morning folks :)
[09:35] <Hobbsee> <pin drop>
[09:36]  * Fujitsu jumps.
[09:37]  * ion_ watches Fujitsy gently float back to the ground.
[09:41]  * Fujitsu lands with a thump.
[09:41]  * Fujitsu kicks promethium.
[09:41] <Fujitsu> Every second build seems to stall for about 40 minutes before it actually does anything.
[09:55]  * Hobbsee kicks liferea
[09:55] <Hobbsee> is it just that planet ubuntu hates the world now, or that something broke liferea, with the planet ubuntu feed?
[09:56] <BugMaN> Hobbsee: liferea don't work today with planet ubuntu
[09:56] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[09:56] <Hobbsee> what's the bug in?
[09:57] <BugMaN> Hobbsee: i don't know , the feed xlm don't work there is a parsing error on Line Number 20, Column 80:
[09:57] <Hobbsee> yaeh, i see that.  oh well.
[09:57] <BugMaN> Hobbsee:  <pre>&amp;lt;li&amp;gt;&amp;lt;a href=&amp;quot;http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/&#x1b;&amp;quot;&amp;gt;YUI&amp;lt;/a&amp;g
[09:58] <Hobbsee> yep
[09:58] <BugMaN> Hobbsee: the error is in &#x1b;
[09:58] <AnAnt> Hello, how does Ubuntu sign the packages with its own key, although maintainer can be anyone ?
[09:59] <Fujitsu> AnAnt: Soyuz (the archive maintenance software) signs the indices.
[09:59] <persia> AnAnt: The repository verifies the source package is signed by an authorized uploader, arranged an automated build, and signs the resulting binaries with it's own key.  It's not a bad robot, and doesn't mind being kicked occasionally (or at least we've never noticed any effect)
[09:59] <BugMaN> Hobbsee: it's from the post of Matt Galvin  :)
[10:00] <ion_> &amp;quot;
[10:00] <ion_> Such a waste of bytes.
[10:00] <Fujitsu> ion_: Heh, yes.
[10:00] <AnAnt> Fujitsu: what indices ?
[10:00] <Fujitsu> AnAnt: Release (see Release.gpg)
[10:00] <ion_> At least in Atom you can include XHTML content directly, thanks to namespaces.
[10:02] <AnAnt> so it isn't debuild that signs the package, they use gpg manually ?
[10:02] <Hobbsee> BugMaN: yay...
[10:02] <Fujitsu> AnAnt: The actual .changes and .dsc are still signed by the uploader, not the universal key.
[10:03] <persia> AnAnt: Rather, there's additional automation involved
[10:03] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: the binaries get signed by the ubuntu archive key
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not quite.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: the sources get signed by our own indivial keys
[10:03] <Hobbsee> afaik, anyway
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Binaries aren't signed, are they?
[10:03] <AnAnt> ok
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Gah, dinner now.
[10:03] <persia> Fujitsu: They surely are.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, the repo containing them is.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> i think they are, too
[10:04] <persia> Fujitsu: On the other hand, I'm not sure that we either distribute the signatures, nor that there are automated tools to verify the same.
[10:07] <AnAnt> ok, what files in binary package are signed ? the .deb files only, right ?
[10:08] <Hobbsee> seeing as the .debs *are* the binaries...
[10:08] <persia> AnAnt: What are you trying to accomplish?
[10:08] <AnAnt> persia: I am working on ubuntume, a derivative distro from ubuntu
[10:09] <persia> AnAnt: Ah.  Your repository software should handle that.
[10:09] <AnAnt> persia: what repository software ?
[10:09] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: you'll get problems with trademarks for that, btw.
[10:09] <persia> AnAnt: Also, aside from the settings and initial CD build, is there anything in ubuntume that shouldn't be in Ubuntu direct;y?
[10:10]  * Hobbsee notes that ubuntume isnt a great name, either :)
[10:10] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: trademarks ? I don't get it
[10:10] <Hobbsee> due to windows ME being the worst version, and all
[10:10] <persia> AnAnt: Umm.  Most people seem to use DAK or falcon, but there's a few.
[10:10] <AnAnt> persia: no, most packages are indeed in Ubuntu or Debian indeed
[10:11] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, has the PPA builder got Jammed : my package has been there for 17 hours : https://edge.launchpad.net/~stevenharperuk/+archive/+build/427888
[10:11] <AnAnt> persia: it's mostly the artwork & ubuntume-desktop that's in ubuntume repo
[10:11] <persia> AnAnt: So the only variations are marketing and the default CD build?
[10:11] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
[10:11] <AnAnt> persia: I think so
[10:11] <persia> AnAnt: In that case, why not get those packages into Ubuntu.  That way you don't have to maintain a repo, and you won't run into issues with trademarks, etc.
[10:12] <AnAnt> persia: which packages ? the artwork & ubuntume-desktop ?
[10:12] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: someone's building openoffice iwht it.
[10:12] <persia> The marketing can stay separate, and point at official sources.  Ubuntu Studio did it for gutsy, so there's no reason not to merge for hardy.
[10:12] <Hobbsee> blueeyed, in fact
[10:12] <persia> AnAnt: Yes.  Those packages.
[10:12] <AnAnt> persia: well, if they are accepted then sure, the guy responsible for UbuntuME is more than welcoming the idea
[10:12] <StevenHarperUK> aha, that'll be it : how long does that take normally?
[10:13] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: ages.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: see https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds
[10:14] <persia> AnAnt: All it takes is to have them 1) policy clean (linda & lintian can help with this), 2) sent to REVU for review, and 3) not break other artwork & desktop packages.
[10:14] <Hobbsee> oh yay, he's been throwing repeated builds of ooo at the buildds.
[10:14] <StevenHarperUK> persia: do you fancy having another look at my REVU package I made all the changes you asked for - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=416
[10:14] <Hobbsee> 3 in the past 2 days, it looks like.
[10:15] <persia> StevenHarperUK: This is actually a very bad time of day for me.  I may take a look later, but you'll get a better package by having different people review it, rather than the same person each time.
[10:15] <AnAnt> persia: well, all those 3 points are being taken care of, except that some wallpaper licenses are not clear
[10:16] <persia> AnAnt: Cool.  Let's do it that way rather than sorting out repository management :)
[10:16] <StevenHarperUK> persia: that's ok, ill ask other MOTU's to check it out, if you get time that would be great
[10:16] <AnAnt> persia: the one who put them, got them from some websites, after making sure that they are free, but he didn't note who the original artist is
[10:16]  * Hobbsee thinks there just arent enough people reviewing.
[10:16] <AnAnt> persia: nor did he note the exact license terms
[10:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: do some reviewing, please :)
[10:16] <persia> AnAnt: An unfortunate common mistake
[10:16]  * persia notes that REVU season doesn't officially begin for 10 days
[10:17] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: were just after the gutsy push so reviewers must be having a break
[10:17] <Hobbsee> persia: thank goodness :)
[10:17] <AnAnt> persia: so at least one package (untill this problem is resolved) has a bad copyright file
[10:17] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: true.
[10:17] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: they got shoved so hard before, that i doubt they're too keen to get into it again :)
[10:17] <persia> AnAnt: The first REVU day isn't until the 5th, but as a short term solution, perhaps the unclear images could be dropped temporarily...
[10:17] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: yes I know - but I'm still gunna keep asking/bugging
[10:18]  * Hobbsee glances at it
[10:18] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: why is it native?
[10:18]  * persia continues to think that native isn't correct.
[10:18] <StevenHarperUK> because im not sure how to make it unnative
[10:19] <StevenHarperUK> I can make an orig.tar.gz, but then what do I do with it?
[10:19] <Hobbsee> bah, persia just left.
[10:19] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: is this from svn, or?
[10:19] <AnAnt> persia: problem is that almost all images are like that
[10:19] <_nand_> hello!
[10:19] <StevenHarperUK> svn
[10:19] <_nand_> a small question for you: how do we handle the package so that it will show up on the "Add/Remove..." application?
[10:19] <_nand_> a tag perhaps?
[10:20] <Hobbsee> _nand_: ask mvo whne he's around.
[10:20] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: your version numbre should probably say something about svn in it.
[10:20] <_nand_> Hobbsee: ok
[10:20] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: why?
[10:20] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: to say that it's a svn version, not a released version.
[10:21] <Hobbsee> oh, you're upstream as well.  why not just do a release of it? :)
[10:21] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: I keep them 2 numbers the same...
[10:21] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee it's all my code and my oackagaing
[10:22]  * Hobbsee doesnt understand the first part
[10:22] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: Im dying to get on with more code, but the packing woes  are taking up time
[10:23] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: another question, we are making a firefox theme, how can it appear in Ubuntu's firefox addons ?
[10:23] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: how much of the packaging guide did you read, btw?
[10:23] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: ask asac.
[10:24] <AnAnt> asac: Hello, we are making a firefox theme, how can it appear in Ubuntu's firefox addons ?
[10:24] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: most of it, its very heavyweight if your a first timer, as almost every term you have to lookup and work out
[10:24] <Fujitsu> _nand_: You create a .desktop file, and mvo's script should pick it up when it next runs.
[10:25] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I have exams, and don't normally review, so nanananananana I'm not listening.
[10:25] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: yeah.  packaging's kinda hard like that
[10:25] <_nand_> Fujitsu: Ah ok! Thanks for the info!
[10:25] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you have to.  i technically shouldnt review anymore :)
[10:25] <Fujitsu> Bah.
[10:25] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: for a newcomer its not friendly....
[10:26] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: packaging *isnt* friendly.  but i know.
[10:26] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: to make a non-native package I make the orig.tar.gz then what do I do with it?
[10:26]  * Hobbsee reviews the rest
[10:26] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: can you explain that please?
[10:26] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Explain what? The non-nativity?
[10:27] <StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: I own the code and the svn: I am currently doing my builds and making Native packages, how do I switch to make non-native
[10:28] <StevenHarperUK> I know I have to make a orig.tar.gz without the debian directory
[10:28] <StevenHarperUK> but t hen what do I do with it
[10:29] <Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: Tar up and gzip the SVN export, with the name package_whateverversion.orig.tar.gz, in the parent directory, then modify the version in debian/changelog to have a hyphen in it, ie. whateverversion-0ubuntu1 or so.
[10:29] <AnAnt> asac: ping
[10:29] <Fujitsu> Then debuild as normal.
[10:29] <Fujitsu> And hope it works.
[10:30] <StevenHarperUK> Fujutsu: fantastic actual instructions : your a star : I'm gunna try  that right now
[10:30] <Fujitsu> Hah, I'm no good at instructing.
[10:30] <oly-> hi, is anyone around that can recommend a python ssl package that i can use as an example for creating my deb
[10:31] <oly-> i know i need some kind of exception, because my code is gpl but because it uses ssl libraries i need to make some kind of exception
[10:31] <Fujitsu> That's one licensing issue I don't know much about.
[10:31] <StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: Why 0ubuntu1 - does that increment? or is that a static suffix?
[10:32] <Fujitsu> StevenHarperUK: That increments. For example, our next would be 0ubuntu2, 0ubuntu3, etc.
[10:32] <Fujitsu> Debian packages have -1, -2, -3, etc.
[10:32] <Fujitsu> If we change a Debian package, it becomes -1ubuntu1, -1ubuntu2...
[10:32] <oly-> yeah and this is my first attempt at packaging, so its even more of problem for me
[10:32] <oly-> thats why i need an example,
[10:32] <StevenHarperUK> Fujitsu: right I get it
[10:33] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: done.
[10:33] <oly-> but i dont know what programs that use ssl are written in python
[10:33] <Hobbsee> oh, pft.  it stole my <>'s
[10:33] <StevenHarperUK> hobbsee : thanks
[10:33] <Fujitsu> oly-: Why is Python relevant?
[10:34] <oly-> only because, others have told that packaging python programs is a bit different as well
[10:34] <Fujitsu> That shouldn't affect licensing..
[10:34] <oly-> i guess just an ssl might help with licensing though
[10:34] <oly-> so if you can recommend one :)
[10:34] <Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: bonus points from having the address that you downloaded it from 404'ing.  that's quite impressive.
[10:35] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: yeh i'll fix that.....
[10:36] <StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: I tried this before (Delete the build-deps) and I got build errors
[10:37] <Hobbsee> as in, completely, or leaving the build-dep-indep stuff there?
[10:38] <StevenHarperUK> I had just (build-dep-ind) and removed the build-dep
[10:38] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, StevenHarperUK: Not latestrelease~svnYYYYMMDD, but nextrelease~svnYYYYMMDD or latestrelease+svnYYYYMMDD
[10:39] <s1024kb> Hello everyone, i am new here...
[10:39] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, my bad.
[10:39] <s1024kb> It's the first time i use IRC...
[10:40] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: think i've been smashing too many people for using wrong ppa versions, which tends to use latest~svn...
[10:40] <Hobbsee> hi s1024kb
[10:40] <s1024kb> Hello Hobbsee
[10:40] <s1024kb> Nice to meet you.
[10:40] <StevenHarperUK> I think nextrelease~svnYYYYMMD will be my choice
[10:41] <s1024kb> I want to become a MOTU, so I come here to say hello... I am a beginner.
[10:41] <man-di> StevenHarperUK: latestrelease+svnYYYYMMDD is better
[10:41] <StevenHarperUK> ok latestrelease+svnYYYYMMDD
[10:42] <man-di> StevenHarperUK: as you will never really know how upstream version the next release
[10:42] <man-di> a.b can becoem a.b+1 or a.b.1 or so
[10:43] <huats> hello everyone
[10:45] <s1024kb> Hello, hauts.
[10:46] <SWAT> is it recommended to use one chroot per package or will one chroot suffice for building several (if not all) packages?
[10:46] <Hobbsee> SWAT: pbuilder is smarter.
[10:46] <Hobbsee> SWAT: one chroot for building all packages is not OK.
[10:47] <Hobbsee> SWAT: or one chroot per package, if you so insist :)
[10:47] <SWAT> Hobbsee, thanks, you'll probably see some more annoying questions of me in the near future
[10:47] <Hobbsee> SWAT: no problem
[10:47] <Hobbsee> SWAT: youve' seen !pbuilder i take it?
[10:48] <SWAT> I came across it, indeed
[10:48] <Hobbsee> cool
[10:49] <SWAT> I want to build several packages from source though (not the deb-src, but the real source)
[10:49] <s1024kb> excuse me... could anyone tell me how to use the grab-merge.sh script please?
[10:49] <Hobbsee> grab-merge.sh package you want.
[10:50] <huats> s1024kb: don't forget to use it in an empty directory
[10:50] <huats> s1024kb: since it will rease everything in it
[10:51] <s1024kb> thank you. excuse me, but how to run it? I am a Windows programmer and just new to Ubuntu. Sorry for my stupid question...
[10:51] <huats> s1024kb:  first download it
[10:51] <huats> than you have to make it executabe
[10:51] <huats> executable
[10:52] <s1024kb> I had downloaded it already. So i should change it's property to become an executable file?
[10:52] <huats> to do so : chmod +x grab-merge.sh
[10:52] <huats> yeah you can do it that way too :)
[10:52] <huats> and than just launch it
[10:52] <s1024kb> thank you huats.
[10:52] <huats> what is the package that you want to merge ?
[10:53] <s1024kb> Don't know yet... want to know where to begin. I have just been in this community for a few days, and want to start my first job, but don't know how to begin. You are nice, thank you huats.
[10:54] <SWAT> on that note, is pbuilder also preferred when building packages from source?
[10:54] <huats> s1024kb: no pb
[10:54] <huats> s1024kb: you'll find a lot of very nice people here....
[10:54] <huats> s1024kb: I am almost as new as you are (let's say with just a few months of experience)
[10:55] <huats> I have some questions about reporting bugs to debian...
[10:55] <huats> does anybody can explain me a few stuffs ?
[10:55] <s1024kb> thank you very much. But my time here is limited. I have less than an hour on line, i often download the documentation and read them at home. I have no internet access at home.
[10:56] <Fujitsu> huats: What's the issue?
[10:56] <huats> Fujitsu: hey
[10:57] <huats> Fujitsu: if I provide a patch with the bug, I'll have a field : "Usertags: origin-ubuntu ubuntu-patch gutsy" so it is useless to also have the tag "Tags : patch" right ?
[10:57] <huats> I am about to report it by email...
[10:58] <Fujitsu> I think you should still tag it patch.
[10:58] <huats> ok
[10:58] <huats> the patch it is a "simple" debdiff ?
[10:58] <Fujitsu> What do you mean?
[10:59] <s1024kb> excuse me huats, i had changed the property of the script file. But how to run it please?
[10:59] <huats> Fujitsu: I mean the same one that I provided in launchpad
[10:59] <huats> s1024kb: ./grab-merge.sh the_package_name
[11:00] <s1024kb> thank you huats
[11:00] <huats> Fujitsu: by instance, if I want to report bug 154472
[11:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154472 in conduit "Conduit's menu item is not HIG-compliant" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154472
[11:00] <Fujitsu> Oh, you can't be serious.... OOo just failed for the third time in what's his name's PPA...
[11:01] <huats> can I put them the debdiff I put in it (since the patch was against the debian version)
[11:02] <Fujitsu> huats: You probably don't want to attach a debdiff.
[11:02] <huats> Fujitsu: no ? so what about the patch ?
[11:03] <Fujitsu> huats: Just submit the patch against the .desktop.
[11:03] <huats> ok
[11:03] <huats> Fujitsu: and do you know the addresse to submit to ?
[11:03] <huats> :)
[11:03] <Fujitsu> huats: submit@bugs.debian.org?
[11:04] <huats> Fujitsu: probably I don't know...
[11:04] <s1024kb> excuse me huats, there are a lot of names on the http://merges.ubuntu.com/ page, but don't know which package to grab and how to grab...
[11:05] <huats> Fujitsu: I was looking in the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging and I haven't fid it (or I have misread)
[11:05] <huats> Fujitsu: thanks
[11:05] <huats> s1024kb: you have to pick one of them...
[11:05] <huats> s1024kb: the thing is it might be a bit difficult to start like this
[11:05] <Fujitsu> huats: That just describes usertagging, not filing bugs.
[11:06] <huats> Fujitsu: I think it was quite related...
[11:06] <s1024kb> so shall i start this way: where to find the tools and where to get the documentation about them? Which tools are needed?
[11:06] <huats> s1024kb: the thing you should do is subscribe yourself to ubuntu-motu-mentors
[11:06] <huats> it is a list for new contributors
[11:07] <huats> who are looking for someone to lead them a bit
[11:07] <huats> but you won't be able to get a mentor before you have done a few stuffs by yourself...
[11:08] <s1024kb> I have already had a mentor (Cesare) but he is not here. It's difficult to meet him because my time zone is GMT+8
[11:09] <Hobbsee> s1024kb: have you thought about doing some translation stuff?
[11:09] <s1024kb> yes
[11:09] <Hobbsee> it probably doesnt require knowing as much as this does - particularly if you dont know hwo to run a shell script.
[11:11] <s1024kb> OK, i want to do anything for contribution. But as a programmer i believe that i can learn things very fast - finally i want to get involve with the development. I guess that everyone has his/her beginning...
[11:12] <s1024kb> I just wish my difficult beginning will gone soon...
[11:15] <huats> s1024kb: norsetto is really a great guy...
[11:20] <s1024kb> i know, huats...i want to learn things faster, i don't want to disappointed him...
[11:21] <s1024kb> huats, could you please give me some help? Could you please tell me how to begin?
[11:55] <persia> Wow!  Setting the DPI correctly really makes a difference :)
[11:58] <s1024kb> Bye everyone... gotta live now.
[12:00] <AnAnt> asac: Hello, we are making a firefox theme, how can it appear in Ubuntu's firefox addons ?
[12:01] <persia> AnAnt: You'll need to have the right type of package.  I think the team in #ubuntu-mozilla can probably help you best (although I may have the channel incorrect)
[12:01] <AnAnt> no such channel
[12:02] <AnAnt> persia: oh btw, about the wallpapers
[12:02] <Fujitsu> #ubuntu-mozillateam, IIRC.
[12:02] <AnAnt> persia: problem is that almost all images are like that
[12:02] <AnAnt> Fujitsu: thanks
[12:02] <persia> AnAnt: Ah.  Not actually legal then :(  Perhaps a call for volunteers to create images from the community?
[12:04] <AnAnt> persia: legal but we have to search for the original artists to put their names in copyright files
[12:05] <persia> AnAnt: Distribution of materials with neither assignment of copyright nor explicit license is a violation of the granted monopoly in territories controlled by all signatories of the Berne convention.  The remainder of the world is small in landmass and doesn't tend to have high-quality internet access.
[12:06] <AnAnt> huh ?
[12:06] <persia> AnAnt: Basically, if someone makes something in most parts of the world, they are granted an exclusive monopoly to distribute that thing.
[12:07] <persia> If anyone else distributes copies of the thing, than the distributor has violated the monopoly, and is liable to suit by the creator.
[12:08] <persia> This applies for written works, the text of speeches, any artwork, published collections of sound, and published video.  It may apply for other things: I don't remember.
[12:09] <persia> In summary, if you have neither received neither an assignment of rights nor explicit permission from the creator, you cannot distribute it.
[12:10] <persia> s/neither//1
[12:12] <AnAnt> persia: well, some are under CC license, others are from a site called sxc.net, where uploaders (ie. artists) say that their work is free to use, but the person who downloaded the images says that to find the author of each wallpaper is "time-consuming effort-demanding absolutely wearing process , if not impossible"
[12:13] <AnAnt> so I think that until they straighten out this issue, I won't put the wallpapers on MOTU
[12:14] <persia> AnAnt: If the works are under CC license, they should have come with info about the copyright holder, and there's a grant, so it's OK.  For the stuff from sxc.net, if people publically indicate that they are free to use, they are free to use: it's just a matter of collecting names.
[12:14] <AnAnt> yup
[12:16] <persia> AnAnt: Looking at sxc.net, it appears to just be a bunch of links to other sites.  Any idea where the images actually came from?
[12:16] <AnAnt> persia: sorry, it's sxc.hu
[12:19] <persia> AnAnt: See http://www.sxc.hu/help/8_1 : The uploaders have all authorized SXC to be the non-exclusive agent for licensing images.  SXC therefore become responsible for providing the license information on demand.  I suspect that someone in HAAP Media (www.haap.hu) would be the best source of info.
[12:19] <AnAnt> persia: you mean that SXC is copyright holder ?
[12:20] <persia> AnAnt: The problem is that http://www.sxc.hu/info.phtml?f=help&s=8_2 specifically prohibits redistribution of the images, so the person who downloaded from that site doesn't have permission to release them as part of an image collection.
[12:22] <persia> AnAnt: Not the copyright holder, but that the copyright holder has entered into a contract such that SXC is an agent, and that SXC is therefore an acceptable counterparty with whom to negotiate an agreement (and should be able to provide the required information regarding actual copyright)
[12:23] <persia> AnAnt: Another issue with the license is that in addition to preventing redistribution, the license is non-transferable, which means that if you did distribute, the recipient would not be able to use the images, so both the distributor and recipient would be in violation.
[12:24] <fernando> moin all
[12:31] <AnAnt> persia: thanks
[12:32] <persia> AnAnt: No problem.  My apologies that what I find isn't as helpful as I'd hoped.
[12:32] <AnAnt> persia: it is !
[12:32] <persia> AnAnt: You can find a way around the no redistribution and non-transferable issues?  If you can, that would be wonderful.
[12:33] <AnAnt> persia: yes, not to include the images !
[12:34] <persia> AnAnt: heh.  That works.
[12:34] <AnAnt> persia: actually, I'll check if the guy has explicity asked permission from sxc.hu
[12:35] <persia> AnAnt: That works as well.  If there's a special agreement with HAAP, then there's no problem at all.
[12:35] <persia> (as long as the special agreement allows 1) redistribution, 2) transfer, and 3) sale for profit)
[12:36] <AnAnt> persia: but we still must mention original artists as copyright holders, right ?
[12:37] <AnAnt> persia: I mean, in case HAAP approves redistribution
[12:38] <persia> AnAnt: Depends on the agreement with SXC/HAAP, and exactly how the licensing is done: it may be that SXC/HAAP has received assignment in some way (although I think not), and can be listed in lieu of the original artists.  Given how non-standard it is, it's probably much easier to just get different images.
[12:44] <AnAnt> ok, thanks for your help
[12:44] <AnAnt> got to go
[12:44] <AnAnt> bye
[12:47] <zul_> morning
[12:47] <Fujitsu> Hi zul_.
[13:02] <warp10> Hi all!
[13:03] <Fujitsu> Hi warp10.
[13:03] <warp10> Fujitsu: :)
[13:04] <huats> norsetto: hey you
[13:04] <huats> :)
[13:06] <norsetto> huats: Hola!!
[13:06] <huats> norsetto: bonjour
[13:07] <huats> :)
[13:07] <norsetto> huats: wasn't there a song that began: Hey you, don'let me down ....
[13:08] <huats> norsetto: may be
[13:08]  * norsetto is really showing his age now ......
[13:08] <huats> norsetto: I don't know
[13:08] <huats> norsetto: who is supposed to be the singer/band ?
[13:08] <norsetto> huats: well, it was a semi-joke, since it really is Hey Jude ....
[13:09] <huats> :)
[13:09] <huats> ok
[13:09] <huats> you are not that old... even myself this song
[13:09] <huats> well I know it for being an old standard... by anyway :P
[13:10] <norsetto> huats: I just checked, it is indeed: "Hey, Jude! Don't let her down", so booooooooh
[13:14] <norsetto> huats: so, lets see if you find another one that begins with hey you (I found another one easy)
[13:16] <huats> :)
[13:16] <huats> norsetto: I'll play
[13:16] <norsetto> huats: Em9
[13:16] <huats> let me 2 minutes
[13:22] <huats> norsetto: it is a too easy game
[13:22] <huats> :)
[13:22] <huats> google is so powerful :(
[13:23] <norsetto> huats: well, use your brain(tm) instead of google
[13:23] <huats> but I have to say I cannot think of another one by myself....
[13:23] <norsetto> huats: me neither :-)
[13:23] <huats> norsetto: there is a parameter : I am in the back of my bed...
[13:23] <huats> still no very healthy
[13:24] <huats> well things are geting better
[13:24] <norsetto> huats: in the back of your bed, of course you must not be very healthy in that position ...
[13:24] <huats> but not perfect yet
[13:24] <huats> :)
[13:26] <norsetto> there you go, heinlein finally gave up
[13:26] <huats> ?
[13:27] <norsetto> huats: thats what they call the ola here
[13:27] <huats> ok
[13:28] <huats> norsetto: regarding your comment on the conduit bug I am ending the patch to debia right now...
[13:29] <norsetto> huats: well, no need really for  patch, just the .desktop should do
[13:29] <huats> yep
[13:29] <norsetto> huats: which reminds me that it doesn't start with an imperative verb ;-)
[13:32] <norsetto> huats: I mean, the comment should be something like "synchronize your whatever"
[13:33] <huats> yep
[13:33] <huats> I was looking at the reference
[13:34] <norsetto> huats: I would guess "synchronize you data"
[13:34] <norsetto> huats: I would guess "synchronize your data" even
[13:35] <norsetto> huats: actually, the best most probably would be to send it directly upstream
[13:39] <norsetto> huats: http://www.conduit-project.org/newticket
[13:39] <huats> norsetto: I will send it both
[13:39] <huats> norsetto: ok I am doing it right now...
[13:45] <norsetto> I'm a bugman, I'm a bugman, and forgot to subscribe u-u-s
[13:45] <BugMaN> norsetto: where? :)
[13:45] <norsetto> bugman: of course it helps with some '80 disco music in the background
[13:45] <BugMaN> norsetto: also if a bug is for desktop team?
[13:46] <norsetto> BugMaN: bug 157360
[13:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157360 in gnome-doc-utils "Please merge gnome-doc-utils from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157360
[13:46] <BugMaN> BugMaN: ok then bug 157377 also :)
[13:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157377 in gconf-editor "Please merge gconf-editor from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157377
[13:46] <BugMaN> norsetto: i'll do now :)
[13:47] <norsetto> yeah, I like I'm a bogeyman better
[13:49] <norsetto> bugman: did you talk with loic about it?
[13:49] <BugMaN> norsetto: nope i'm waiting seb
[13:51] <BugMaN> norsetto: gnome-doc-utils is in main
[13:51] <norsetto> bugman: well, u-m-s then
[13:52] <norsetto> huats: Its Loic some kind of Breton name?
[13:52] <huats> yep
[13:52] <BugMaN> norsetto: gconf-editor also :)
[13:52] <huats> norsetto: you know there is a french mafia around the desktop team :)
[13:53] <norsetto> bugman: hey, on your way to core-dev soon eh :-)
[13:53] <BugMaN> norsetto: :)
[13:54] <norsetto> bugman: his nickname is lool in case you need it
[13:55] <BugMaN> norsetto: thanks
[13:55] <norsetto> huats: do you think that having a french wife could qualify me?
[13:56] <huats> norsetto: I think you are in a good way...
[13:56] <norsetto> huats: I even speack french, look: olalalalalá
[13:56] <huats> you might have to ask the french nationality
[13:56] <huats> and give us back the soccer world cup
[13:56] <huats> but it is a good start
[13:57] <norsetto> huats: ask the english for the rugby one back first
[13:58] <huats> norsetto: do mention that it hurts
[14:00] <huats> norsetto: and england have lost in final (this time)
[14:04] <huats> norsetto: I have put the new version of the conduit desktop file
[14:04] <huats> I've send the mail to debian
[14:04] <huats> and I have create a ticket on the conduit's trac
[14:05] <norsetto> huats: you talk like you have a cold "do mention that it hurts" ;-)
[14:05] <huats> oh
[14:05] <huats> it was more "doN'T mention ....'
[14:05] <huats> :)
[14:07] <norsetto> huats: are you going to link these bugs to the LP one?
[14:08] <huats> I am about for the debian
[14:08] <huats> but is it possible for the conduit ?
[14:08] <huats> I was about to see
[14:09] <norsetto> huats: well, at leasty manually it should be possible
[14:10] <rexbron> persia: I have emailed upstream regarding some of the issues you raised and am awaiting a reply. As for the other issues, I have fixed them and will upload them when I have heard back from upstream. Thanks for you help :)
[14:11] <persia> rexbron: Are there any upstream issues other than the licensing for the other two organs & the DTD?
[14:11] <rexbron> persia: the manpage, binary file (possibly unintentionaly included) and an icon
[14:12] <zul> freaking redhat installs
[14:12] <huats> norsetto: there is no conduit project in LP
[14:12] <rexbron> persia: I also suggested in future releases to consider adding a configureation file/ dialoug. the current command line options do not lend themselves to .desktop files
[14:13] <persia> rexbron: You could write a manpage :)  The icon isn't that critical, and I think the binary file is just a project file for the IDE.
[14:13] <huats> norsetto: or is it gnome-pilot-conduit...
[14:13] <rexbron> persia: I suggested I do that for upstream
[14:13] <persia> rexbron: No need to be so timid.  It's great to work with upstream, but in most cases, they're happy to get patches.
[14:14] <rexbron> persia: hopfully upstream will release a maitence release to address those licencing and clean tarball issues
[14:15] <rexbron> persia: also, the build script that genpo includes does not install genpo, the user is told to run it from the build dir or any other of their choise
[14:15] <ScottK> Good $TIMEOFDAY all.
[14:15] <persia> rexbron: True.  Until then, you could also consider a x.y.z-dfsg version, which doesn't contain the .bzr or unlicensed files.  I don't remember there being anything critical missing that was needed to make it work.
[14:15] <rexbron> persia: I could forward you the email I sent to Steve
[14:16] <rexbron> persia: that is definately an option if Steve does not have the time
[14:16] <Fujitsu> Hi ScottK.
[14:16] <persia> rexbron: If you like.  I'm not likely to interfere either way - I'll just encourage you to do as much as can be done locally, just in case Steve is busy.  It's not that hard to merge later, especially with a new upstream.
[14:16] <ScottK> Hello Fujitsu.
[14:17] <ScottK> Fujitsu: I'm glad you enjoyed the new publishing history page as much as I did.
[14:17] <norsetto> hi scottk
[14:17] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Oh yes.
[14:17] <Fujitsu> I also enjoyed other Soyuz features today.
[14:17] <ScottK> Hello norsetto.
[14:18] <rexbron> persia: I would also like to look into getting genpo into debian when it is polished enough
[14:18] <persia> rexbron: Have you filed an ITP?
[14:18] <huats> norsetto: I don't see how to link it to the conduit trac
[14:18]  * rexbron should do that
[14:18] <rexbron> persia: Will do
[14:18] <norsetto> huats: let me see
[14:18] <huats> norsetto: no problem
[14:23] <norsetto> huats: we could register the project, but in this case I think it is simpler just to paste the link in a comment
[14:23] <huats> ok
[14:24] <huats> I will do it
[14:24] <huats> I think it is the best thing too
[14:24] <norsetto> huats: you may also want to correct the typo in the title (if you can)
[14:25] <huats> which is ? the mention of the menu item while it is the desktop file ?
[14:26] <norsetto> huats: .desktop is ot HIG compliant
[14:27] <huats> I don't see the difference
[14:27] <norsetto> huats: have you got some kind of virus in your pc? There is hardly any activity in that tracker and half an hour after your report yours there is some spam appearing :-)
[14:27] <proppy> hi
[14:28] <norsetto> huats: http://www.conduit-project.org/ticket/950
[14:28] <norsetto> hey proppy
[14:28] <huats> norsetto: :)
[14:28] <proppy> hey norsetto
[14:28] <proppy> it's been a while !
[14:28] <huats> norsetto: I wasn't looking at the right place
[14:28] <huats> hey proppy
[14:28] <proppy> hey huats
[14:28] <norsetto> proppy: its been a long day night
[14:28] <huats> norsetto: beware you the french guy with a virus
[14:29] <huats> norsetto: still singing ?
[14:29] <norsetto> huats: :-)
[14:29] <norsetto> huats: if only I could remember the words correctly
[14:30] <huats> :)
[14:32] <huats> norsetto: I cannot change the title :(
[14:32] <norsetto> huats: well, it will remain there as a memento to your virus
[14:32] <huats> ;)
[14:32] <huats> speaking o virus
[14:32] <proppy> nani virus ?
[14:33] <huats> i'll get some sleep... I am really tired
[14:33] <norsetto> huats: its been a hard day night (it makes sense)
[14:33] <huats> see you soon
[14:33] <huats> :)
[14:33] <norsetto> huats: take care, see you soon back in shape again :-)
[14:34] <huats> of course
[14:35] <huats> don't we say : strong as a toulousain ?
[14:35] <huats> no you are right we never say that
[14:36]  * norsetto wonders if the fever will get down to bearable levels
[14:38] <norsetto> how is it going with mumble proppy-san?
[14:39] <proppy> norsetto: can you report your comment to the bug report ?
[14:39] <norsetto> proppy: which comment?
[14:40] <apachelogger> can someone please revu http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=425 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=426 ?
[14:42] <proppy> norsetto: comment you send me by mail about the init.d and path stuff
[14:43] <norsetto> proppy: and do you think I keep all the stuff I send out?
[14:44] <ScottK> soren and geser: Congratulations.
[14:44] <proppy> norsetto: Ok I will report it myself to the bug report
[14:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, are results out?
[14:45] <ScottK> Yeah.
[14:46] <proppy> norsetto: it seems important to work in a directory named package-version when you're generating patch ?
[14:46] <persia> bmk789: You'll need to Build-Depends: on libwxbase2.6-dev.  More generally, repeat the process a few times, and eventually you'll have all the build dependencies.
[14:46]  * Hobbsee wondesr what geser and soren's plans are now.
[14:46] <norsetto> proppy: which patch system you using? becuase usually it isn't
[14:47] <zul> besides world domination and partying like its 1995?
[14:47] <proppy> norsetto: cdbs
[14:47] <proppy> norsetto: i get an error when applying my patch on dapper
[14:47] <norsetto> what? 1995 is already over!? Nobody ever tell me anything
[14:47] <bmk789> persia: thanks ill try it
[14:47] <proppy> norsetto: the patch system didn't use the correct -p option
[14:47] <persia> norsetto: It doesn't matter if it's now or then, it's still a party style :)
[14:48] <proppy> norsetto: but on gutsy feisty it's ok
[14:48] <persia> proppy: Did you use cdbs-edit-patch?
[14:48] <proppy> norsetto: yep
[14:48] <proppy> persia:
[14:48] <proppy> yep
[14:48] <proppy> persia: norsetto: check the unittest++ line http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/packaging-farm/html/index.php
[14:48]  * persia suspects a Dapper CDBS bug
[14:49] <proppy> dapper Trying patch debian/patches/01-pkgconfig.patch at level 0...success.
[14:49] <proppy> edgy and+:  Trying patch debian/patches/01-pkgconfig.patch at level 1 ... success.
[14:52] <proppy> norsetto: I've updated bug #129081
[14:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
[14:53] <proppy> norsetto: with your comments
[14:53] <norsetto> proppy: thanks
[14:53] <proppy> norsetto: oups I forgot to put your name in front :)
[14:56] <jpatrick> norsetto: could you add me to the mentors? KDE packages prefered, jpatrick@kubuntu.org
[14:56] <proppy> norsetto: reported all the discussion to bug #129081
[14:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
[14:56] <proppy> norsetto: can you comment ?
[14:56] <norsetto> jpatrick: sure! thanks for helping!!
[14:57] <proppy> persia: what do you advice about the cdbs bug ?
[14:57]  * persia digs a little
[14:58] <proppy> persia: it's about patching level
[14:59] <persia> proppy: Right.
[14:59] <bmk789> another error :\  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42231/
[15:00] <norsetto> jpatrick: just one slot?
[15:00] <jpatrick> norsetto: yeah, for now
[15:01] <persia> proppy: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=365524
[15:01] <proppy> persia: nice one
[15:01]  * persia grumbles about ubotu not being patient with the BTS
[15:02] <proppy> persia: patient ?
[15:02] <proppy> persia: so next step is to request a backport ?
[15:03] <persia> proppy: I very much doubt anyone would be happy about backporting a fix for that to Dapper, so you'll probably have to create the new file in a different manner.  One possible way (and not my favorite) is to drop the file in debian/, and copy it in place in debian/rules.
[15:03] <persia> proppy: Timed out trying to get meta-data
[15:03] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:04] <proppy> persia: is it bad to put it directly in place ?
[15:04] <proppy> persia: the diff.gz will containt it
[15:04] <proppy> persia: outside of the debian directory
[15:05] <persia> proppy: If the Debian maintainer is using a patch system, putting patches directly in the .diff.gz is poor form: it makes it harder to understand the changes that have been applied to the package.
[15:05] <proppy> persia: context http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=proppy@aminche.com
[15:05] <rexbron> persia: what would be a better plan of action, to get genpo into ubuntu, then debian or the opposite an then request a sync?
[15:05] <proppy> persia: I plan to update the outdated package
[15:05] <proppy> persia: I'm the maintainer, and upload it via a DD
[15:06] <persia> proppy: Essentially, only one of `lsdiff -z *.diff.gz | grep -v debian` or `cat debian/patches/* | lsdiff` should generate a complete list of files altered by the package.
[15:06] <proppy> persia: this is the only patch present in the package
[15:07] <proppy> persia: I put the patch system only to create that file
[15:07] <persia> proppy: OK.  If you are using a patch system, it makes life easier for the security team to not put it in the diff.gz, and they will be less likely to shoot you if they have to touch your package.  (in general, the security team likes everything in diff.gz, but not everyone agrees with them)
[15:07] <proppy> by everything in diff.gz you mean everything in debian in the diff.gz ?
[15:08] <persia> proppy: If the patch system is only for that file, it's your call.  I prefer patch systems personally.  You might try dpatch instead of simple-patchsys.
[15:09] <persia> rexbron: Doesn't really matter.  I generally find getting things into Ubuntu first is faster at the beginning of an Ubuntu cycle, and getting things into Debian first is faster at the end of an Ubuntu cycle, but it depends on how quickly you think NEW processing will take.
[15:11] <StevenHarperUK_> hi
[15:11] <persia> bmk789: It looks to me like you're compiling against wxwidgets2.8, but the previous error asked for wxwidgets2.6.  Unless you want to port it, you probably want to adjust your build-depends.
[15:12] <proppy> does dpatch mix well with cdbs ?
[15:12] <StevenHarperUK_> I have now made my REVU package non-native and made all other changes requested by reviewers : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=427 : i am now looking for reviews by MOTU's (I currently have no advocations)  thanks
[15:12] <bmk789> really?  it asked for 2.8 on my system
[15:12] <bmk789> ill give it a try
[15:12] <StevenHarperUK_> Oh and I have tested it with p builder and it builds.....
[15:13] <persia> bmk789: I was referring to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-October/002572.html
[15:13] <proppy> eroor in the doc http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch05s03.html, "A real-life example of dpatch usage is the xterm package." seems they have switched to quilt
[15:14] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: That's a really good request.  Thanks for the extra info :)
[15:14] <persia> proppy: for CDBS dpatch, just include the CDBS dpatch rule :)
[15:14] <persia> (oh, and use dpatch-edit-patch to create your patch)
[15:15] <proppy> persia: ok :)
[15:15] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: ta I am working on my requests
[15:15] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: You're upstream for this, aren't you?
[15:16] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: Yep and it all nice n non-native now
[15:16] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: just as you asked
[15:16] <tsmithe> can someone take a look at http://ppa.launchpad.net/tsmithe/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wired/wired_0.5.1+dfsg2-0tsmithe3.dsc and advise me on what to do about the shlib lintian warning? i'm not sure what to do. i've tried a number of things, but it's still not going anywhere. "shlib-missing-in-control-file" is the error i'm trying to combat
[15:16] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: When the package is just about ready, you might consider making a release tarball for general distribution (with svn export), and not having an SVN version number, but that's not a blocking issue.
[15:17] <StevenHarperUK_> Roger that I can do that for proper releases
[15:17] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: Right.  No point until all the little bits are ironed out :)
[15:18] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: it is all in development, its only slowed to get the packaging perfect
[15:19] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: You've still a few linda & lintian errors showing for me.  Try adding all the arguments shown on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[15:20] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: REVU shows no linda errors
[15:21] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: and the lintian errors are bacuse REVU does not understand the hardy
[15:21] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: REVU doesn't use all the switches I do, and doesn't run against the binary packages.
[15:21] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK_: thats because you are not looking at the binary packages
[15:23] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: Right ill get onto that now
[15:23] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: Good luck.  The switches shown are super-verbose, and should provide some advice on how to address them.
[15:24] <bmk789> no matter what i change im still getting that error :\
[15:24] <proppy> persia: I've included /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/dpatch.mk and create a patch using dpatch-edit-patch
[15:24] <proppy> persia: but it doesn't apply
[15:25] <persia> bmk789: If you unpack the original tarball somewhere outside the package directory, and build it locally, does it work?
[15:25] <persia> proppy: debian/patches/00list
[15:25] <proppy> persia: do I need to create 00list manually ?
[15:25] <persia> Unfortunately
[15:26] <proppy> ls *.dpatch > 00list
[15:26] <norsetto> proppy: I'm starting to appreciate quilt if you want to try it
[15:26] <persia> proppy: That works.  I usually just do it manually :)
[15:26] <persia> norsetto: Does CDBS have a magic quilt rule yet?
[15:26] <proppy> norsetto: does it works with cdbs >
[15:26] <proppy> ?
[15:26] <norsetto> persia: proppy doesn't even add sugar to his coffee manually
[15:27] <persia> proppy: It certainly works, but I believe you need to add the hooks manually in debian/rules
[15:27] <persia> norsetto: Ah.  Well then...
[15:27] <proppy> E: unittest++ source: missing-build-dependency dpatch
[15:27] <proppy> F
[15:27] <proppy> I love lintian :)
[15:28] <proppy> norsetto: let's do some quilt for mumble :)
[15:28] <norsetto> proppy: lets hope not .....
[15:30] <persia> proppy: I'd strongly recommend doing a couple quilt patches for packages that have already migrated before trying it on a new one.  It has a different interface...
[15:30] <proppy> persia: ok
[15:30] <proppy> norsetto: persia: but quilt seems a bit overkill for a one file patch doesn't it ?
[15:31]  * persia thinks it's a matter of choice, and that changing patch systems later is annoying
[15:31] <stani> Hi, i am the author of a package (spe, python editor, http://pythonide.stani.be) which was packaged by debian and then synced in universe. I know this should be fixed in debian, but Scott advised me to go here first as ubuntu-motu is more open to teaching. Unfortunately the program fails on gutsy because it chooses the wrong version of wxpython. (By consequence people keep on posting duplicates of this bug, already 18 and I get almost eve
[15:31] <persia> stani: Which version of wxpython is it choosing?
[15:32] <stani> it is choosing wxpython2.8 now, but it should be 2.6
[15:32] <norsetto> stani: breath from time to time
[15:32] <proppy> now the works is done let's try it on dapper
[15:32] <stani> norsetto: I know ;-)
[15:33] <persia> stani: Just to make sure, we're looking at version 0.8.2a, repacked, right?
[15:33] <stani> persia: yes
[15:33] <ScottK> stani: Welcome.
[15:33] <persia> Hmm..  From what I see, it looks like it selects the wxpython version at runtime.
[15:33] <stani> persia: the new version of spe 0.8.4.b is working with wxpython 2.8, but it not released nor packaged
[15:33] <proppy> persia: norsetto: dapper is green http://farmpoker3d.pokersource.info/packaging-farm/html/index.php
[15:34] <proppy> persia: norsetto: thanks :)
[15:34] <stani> persia: yes, but it does by selecting minimally 2.5.4.2, which means it will select the highest installed which is often 2.8
[15:35] <stani> persia: as proposed in my patch, it should *only* select 2.6 as that is also the wxpython version which will get installed by installing spe through apt
[15:35] <persia> stani: Well, there are two choices, depending on what you want to fix.  For future releases, 0.8.4.b seems to be the best solution (although it needs to be backward compatible with 2.6 for Debian).  For fixing past Ubuntu releases, we'd need a targeted patch that limited it to <<2.7 or some similar trick.
[15:35] <stani> hi ScottK, nice you are here
[15:36] <stani> persia: spe 0.8.4.b is backwards compatible with 2.6 and it fixes a lot more bugs on ubuntu
[15:36] <stani> persia: moreover it is integrated with nautilus, gnome-terminal and so on
[15:36]  * persia suspects tsmithe has left prior to getting a response :(
[15:36] <gpocentek> coNP[uni]: FYI I'm merging goffice
[15:37] <persia> ScottK: What do you think about backporting 0.8.4.b?
[15:37] <stani> persia: spe 0.8.2.a was developed on windows (sorry for that), but 0.8.4.b was developed on ubuntu
[15:37] <stani> persia: spe is 100% pure python, so no binaries involved
[15:37] <persia> stani: Nothing wrong with cross-platform software :)
[15:37] <ScottK> persia: The current version has SRU worthy issues.  Backports are not a substitued for the SRU process.
[15:38] <stani> persia: I notice that the platform of the developer is always on a better seat then the other platforms of the program
[15:38] <persia> ScottK: s/Backport/SRU/ then.  The question is more whether to take the new upstream, or monkeypatch to force <<2.7.  The dependencies are right, but the runtime check doesn't enforce it.
[15:38] <SWAT> what's the best way to build packages from source (not deb-src)? Create chroots (without pbuilder) and then use debhelper?
[15:38] <stani> persia: i guess spe now runs better on ubuntu then on windows
[15:39] <persia> stani: Usually.  Some people are more flexible (e.g. apache & ardour, just to pick two starting with "a")
[15:39] <persia> SWAT: There's no official "best" way.  The buildds use sbuild (as do I)
[15:40] <dfiloni> anybody can do keys re-sync?
[15:40] <ScottK> persia: It's a degree of difficulty thing I guess.
[15:40] <zul> mental note...always compile before porting
[15:40] <bmk789> persia: i think its working
[15:40] <persia> ScottK: You know my level of python :)
[15:40] <persia> bmk789: Great!
[15:40] <oly-> i have a quick question, i have included an exception for openssl in my debian/copyright file, do i also need to include this in all source code, or only the parts that use ssl ?
[15:40] <stani> persia: i am willing first to do the little fix and later maybe to learn packaging a new release
[15:41] <oly-> or is just the copyright file sufficent
[15:41] <SWAT> persia, thanks. I know there is no official 'best way', but 'a good way' is also worth a lot ;)
[15:41] <ScottK> persia and stani: Is the big issue in Gutsy that it's using the wrong wxpython version?
[15:41] <stani> persia: i am afraid that going immediately for 0.8.4.b would be a big step too far for me personally
[15:42] <persia> oly-: You need to include it in the relevant licensing for any code that uses SSL.  Just to make sure, such exceptions are not allowed to be a patch, but must be upstream.
[15:42] <stani> scottk: the problem is that spe requires wxpython2.6 which is correctly handled by apt, but wxpython 2.8 is now also often installed on people system and spe chooses now based on a minimum criterium with favours 2.8
[15:43] <persia> ScottK: Right.  The runtime check uses the default system wxpython because it's >> 2.5.4.2, and on Ubuntu it's wxpython2.8, which is different enough to cause problems.
[15:43] <oly-> well only the webserver part uses the ssl, but it includes lots of libraries that handle the data but these do not directly use ssl
[15:43] <oly-> its all very confusing
[15:43] <stani> scott: spe should not choose at "least 2.6" but "only 2.6"
[15:44] <ScottK> POX_: Are you around? ^^^ Any ideas on how to force spe to use wxpython2.6?
[15:44] <oly-> and i am not to sure what you mean persia, by mucst be upstream and not a patch
[15:44] <persia> I don't think it would be a problem in Feisty, as I think 2.6 was the default wx at that point (although 2.8 was also included)
[15:44] <stani> scottk: i have submitted a fix in launchpad which fixes it
[15:44] <oly-> its a program i have been working on for the past 6 months, just want to get it into a suitable state for the next ubuntu
[15:45] <ScottK> stani: OK.
[15:45] <imbrandon> good morning all
[15:45] <ScottK> persia: Can you take a look at his solution?
[15:45] <persia> oly-: Licensing exceptions to allow linking against SSL must be granted by the original developers rather than imposed by a distributor.
[15:45] <zul> hey imbrandon
[15:45] <ScottK> good morning imbrandon.
[15:45] <persia> stani: Which bug?
[15:45] <oly-> so thats me, so thats okay :)
[15:45] <stani> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spe/+bug/124896
[15:45] <ScottK> persia: ^^^
[15:45] <persia> oly-: Ah.  That's easier then.  I just like to make sure :)
[15:46] <oly-> although its now a team on launchpad, cept i am the only one working on it still,
[15:46] <persia> ScottK: The versions look fine to me, but I can't speak to the syntax, nor how this influences it at runtime.
[15:46] <oly-> the only other thinng, is do i put exception in all source files or only the one that directly links
[15:46]  * ScottK looks.
[15:47] <persia> oly-: Anything that ends up in the same binary at the end of the build process.
[15:47] <stani> persia: I have tested it myself on feisty and gutsy
[15:47] <oly-> okay, although a binary is not created its a python program
[15:47] <persia> stani: Just to verify, there's no problem with the current package on feisty, is there?
[15:47] <persia> (feisty had 2.6 & 2.8, but used wx-common from 2.6)
[15:48] <oly-> but i guess i put it in all files, because once its run by a user it probably counts as a binary
[15:48] <stani> persia: no
[15:48] <proppy> norsetto: I've generated a very light package for jpoker using cdbs http://jpoker.aminche.com/jpoker-1.0.0/debian/
[15:49] <persia> stani: That makes it easier.  SRU only one step back isn't nearly as painful.
[15:49] <stani> persia: or maybe if someone has 2.8 and 2.6 installed at feisty
[15:49] <persia> stani: Hrm.  Maybe that needs a test.  2.8 was available, but not the system default version.
[15:49] <stani> persia: but the bug reports started showering as soon as gutsy was released
[15:49] <stani> persia: i cleaned up launchpad as there were 19 bugs for the same issue
[15:50] <stani> persia: all for gutsy
[15:50] <persia> heh.  People should really check for duplicates :)
[15:50] <stani> persia: when cleaning all these bugs, i thought this will take me more time than fixing it
[15:51] <stani> persia: ... and such a small patch is a good opportunity to learn ;-)
[15:51] <persia> stani: Absolutely :)
[15:51] <ScottK> persia: Python syntax looks sane.
[15:52] <persia> ScottK: And it's SRU-worthy?
[15:52] <stani> persia: spe 0.8.4.b involves more, for example also updating wxglade
[15:52] <ScottK> Yes.
[15:52] <stani> persia: what is SRU?
[15:52] <bmk789> persia: i think this is the last problem "dpkg-gencontrol: warning: can't parse dependency ${libwxgtk2.8-0: Depends}"
[15:52] <persia> stani: Stable Release Update.
[15:52] <ScottK> persia: Crashes are always SRU worthy.
[15:53] <persia> bmk789: You probably want shlibs:depends and misc:depends instead :)
[15:53] <joumetal> bug 102328  what do you think?
[15:53] <persia> joumetal: context?
[15:53] <joumetal> persia packaging calculate.
[15:54] <bmk789> it said that problem about them too so i took them out
[15:54] <ScottK> persia: I'm pretty sure the packaging system can do the right thing so that the please install ... part of the patch isn't needed.
[15:54] <POX_> ScottK, stani: you want something like "Conflicts: python-wxgtk2.8" in Python, or what?
[15:54] <stani> persia & scott: is there a motu dictionary for terms like MoM, Dad, SRU, ... now I know them but a lookup with all abbrevations in one place would be nice
[15:54] <persia> stani: OK.  Now that we have confirmation that it's a bug that needs fixing, and it will need to get backported, so let's trim the patch, and make some debdiffs.
[15:54] <persia> !MoM
[15:54] <stani> POX_: no
[15:54] <ScottK> POX_: It turns out it's more a problem of his app using the wrong one.
[15:55] <ScottK> If both are installed.
[15:55] <imbrandon> stani, not afaik
[15:55] <persia> POX_: That really wouldn't work: it's the default system wxpython
[15:55] <stani> POX_: you can have installed wxpython2.8 and 2.6 at the same time it doesn't matter
[15:56] <POX_> yaeh, hopefully wx2.8 will never be uploaded to Debian
[15:56] <stani> imbrandon: would it be a good idea to start a wiki for that?
[15:56] <POX_> we're waiting for 3.0
[15:56] <imbrandon> stani, sure
[15:56] <ScottK> POX_ meet stani.  stani meet POX_.  POX_: stani is the upstream for spe (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/i386/spe/0.8.2a+repack-1).  He plans to come see the Debian Python Applications Team.  stani: POX_ is a DD that does a lot of uploading for Debian Python Apps.
[15:57] <stani> imbrandon: what would be the best place to link it from? can I do that?
[15:57] <stani> POX_: nice to meet you
[15:57] <POX_> stani: hi :)
[15:57] <imbrandon> you can do it , and i'm not sure other than the /MOTU space, might poke dholobach
[15:57] <persia> POX_: Ron is hoping to move to wx2.8 for Lenny
[15:58] <POX_> nooooo
[15:58] <POX_> ;)
[15:58] <persia> Yes.  It's part of the master plan to kill 2.4.
[15:58] <stani> POX_: what is wrong with wxpython2.8?
[15:58] <persia> stani: All the interfaces changed, and half the apps don't work with wx2.8
[15:59] <persia> (like yours)
[15:59] <norsetto> proppy: is it in revu already?
[15:59] <proppy> norsetto: mumble or jpoker ?
[15:59] <norsetto> proppy: jpoker
[16:00] <stani> persia: yes but on the other hand all active wxpython applications switched to 2.8 (also spe). So not providing 2.8 is holding back the new versions
[16:00] <persia> stani: understood.  wx packaging in Debian is special
[16:01] <POX_> stani: I heard a rumor that even upstream authors regrettet it's release ;)
[16:01] <stani> there are also not so much wxpython applications in universe, there are a lot more interesting ones
[16:01] <proppy> norsetto: it's only a web page for now which install correctly with apache2, it's part of a job I'm doing on rentacoder.com right now, the buyer want a debian package for the first delivery
[16:01] <stani> POX_: it is true it was forced to release more early as planned because of leopard
[16:01] <proppy> norsetto: but putting it in REVU is a good idea, even if the package contains nothing, the packaging is worth reviewing
[16:02] <proppy> norsetto: don't you think ?
[16:02] <stani> POX_: by which some of the goals are not fully implemented, but it is still is an improvement over 2.6
[16:03] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: Hi again, I have fixed more things: and have uploaded the new package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=428
[16:03] <POX_> stani: I'm not really using wx (as a developer and user), so I can't say
[16:03] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: Are lintian and linda silent now?  For both source and binary?
[16:03] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: not silent they throw up soem red herrings
[16:03] <coNP[uni]> gpocentek: thanks
[16:03] <POX_> the only wx application I use is pgadmin
[16:03] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: the missing icon in menu
[16:03] <POX_> and it has lots of bugs even with 2.6
[16:04] <persia> POX_: Upsteam doesn't prefer 2.8, but 2.6 was getting limiting for useful new features about a year ago.  2.8 is more of a preview in some ways.
[16:04] <norsetto> proppy: well, perhaps it isn't for REVU then ... but I'll be glad to look at the package if you want me to
[16:04] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: and the wrong menu section : applications
[16:04] <stani> POX_: well as I said there are a lot not packaged, but I can imagine on linux you prefer gtk or qt
[16:04] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: Got gimp?  Also, look in /usr/share/doc/menu for a list of valid sections.
[16:05] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: You'll minimally want a 32x32 xpm, but having a 48x48 png as well would be ideal.
[16:05] <proppy> norsetto: maybe not for REVU yet, but I'll be glad putting it on it once it has at least one fonctionnaly
[16:05] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: I have the debian new sepc says : Applications/File Management
[16:05] <norsetto> persia: its the debian menu icon
[16:05] <StevenHarperUK_> 32px?
[16:05] <POX_> stani: anyway, I see that ubuntu still has python-wxgtk2.6 package, why not force users to remove python-wxgtk2.8? apt-cache rdepends python-wxgtk2.8 doesn't return much
[16:05] <StevenHarperUK_> small....
[16:05] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: Yes.  32px
[16:06] <StevenHarperUK_> ok I can do that
[16:06] <persia> norsetto: Is there already a PNG for the .desktop file?
[16:06] <StevenHarperUK_> but its in my .install to move it to pixmaps
[16:06] <StevenHarperUK_> and it whines that its not in pixmaps
[16:06] <norsetto> persia: he has some icons in a subdir, I think only the debian menu one was in pixmap
[16:07] <StevenHarperUK_> I have been told I HAVE to use xpm
[16:07] <StevenHarperUK_> I am seeing a lot of conflicting review comments....
[16:07] <StevenHarperUK_> Is the Applications/File Management - which is a new valid menu location correct?
[16:07] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: I think you want all the icons for the system menu entries in pixmaps directly.  You need to use xpm for the menu file, but it looks better to also have png for the .desktop file.  The system should pick the one that looks best based on the user's resolution and bit depth.
[16:08] <StevenHarperUK_> I have done that
[16:08] <StevenHarperUK_> I need to make the xmp small
[16:08] <StevenHarperUK_> **xpm
[16:08] <bmk789> agh, what does this mean?  dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc: Depends}
[16:08] <bmk789> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: can't parse dependency ${libwxgtk2.8-0: Depends}
[16:09] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: "Applications/File Managment" doesn't match what I have in /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz, but I'm not 100% sure.
[16:09] <norsetto> persia: since its a gnome app, he could also install all the icons in hicolor and register with dh_icons
[16:09] <StevenHarperUK_> persia : its in the spec here http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/07/msg00000.html
[16:10] <persia> norsetto: dh_icons also grabs pixmaps.  I usually stuff things there unless there's a good reason to put it somewhere else, but you're right.
[16:10] <POX_> bmk789: try with "${misc:Depends}" (without the space character) - I'm not sure if it helps, though
[16:10] <stani> POX_: you are right, but I thought of wetting my feet in packaging and learning to do it the proper way
[16:10] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: I wonder if maybe lintian doesn't know that yet :)
[16:10] <POX_> stani: join PAPT, we will help you with maintaining it
[16:10] <bmk789> POX_: i did without the space, i just added the space in irc
[16:10] <stani> POX_: it is never nice to force people ;-)
[16:11] <StevenHarperUK_> persia : like I say its full of unhelpfull red-herrings
[16:11] <POX_> stani: well, sometimes it's the only way ;-P
[16:11] <dfiloni> siretard: can you do the sync of keys please?
[16:11] <POX_> bmk789: show me your control file
[16:12] <stani> POX_: PAPT is probably Python APT? How can I join? I am fairly experienced with python & wxpython but have null packaging experience. So are you open to newcomers?
[16:12] <bmk789> POX_: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42241/
[16:12] <POX_> stani: Python Applications Packaging Team, yes
[16:13] <POX_> sure, everybody needs help at the beginning
[16:13] <POX_> thats why we keep all our files in the repo - all can work on a package and improve it
[16:14] <StevenHarperUK_> Hi , I am looking for reviews of my package on REVU - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=428 - I currently have 0 advocates
[16:14] <POX_> stani: http://python-apps.alioth.debian.org/policy.html
[16:14] <POX_> "Joining the team" is there
[16:16] <POX_> bmk789: what is "${libwxgtk2.8-0:Depends}" - are you generating it somewhere in debian/rules?
[16:16] <POX_> I mean, in substvars
[16:16] <stani> POX_: spe has to be fixed in debian anyway, so I better join
[16:16]  * persia wonders if it is possible to have a python package comply with the NEW python packaging policy and use neither of python-support or python-central
[16:17] <bmk789> POX_: no its in the repos and needs to be installed for the program to run
[16:17] <POX_> persia: yes it is, but it needs a little bit more work
[16:17] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: any chance of you re-reviewing my package on REVU please?
[16:17] <persia> POX_: Thanks.
[16:17]  * norsetto knows that he has been told and ponders if persia is being too kind
[16:17] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: I may stop if you keep asking, but think you probably want to look at python-support or python-central to start
[16:18] <POX_> bmk789: don't you need just "libwxgtk2.8-0"
[16:18] <POX_> ?
[16:18] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: are you suggesting I g to them channels?
[16:18] <persia> bmk789: You shouldn't need that at all.  It should come for free from ${shlibs:Depends}
[16:18] <POX_> bmk789: or shouldn't ${shlibs:Depends} deal with that?
[16:19] <POX_> persia: :)
[16:19] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: packages, not channels.  Tools for packaging python in a compliant manner the easy way.
[16:19] <bmk789> i am soooo lost, but ill try it without it then
[16:20] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: I almost have it all right now, restarting at this point seems silly
[16:20] <POX_> bmk789: just remove ", ${libwxgtk2.8-0:Depends}" and it should work (if you have all needed dh_sh* in debian/rules)
[16:20]  * POX_ bbl
[16:21] <persia> bmk789: OK.  There are a few macros (like ${shlibs:Depends}) that auto-populate the dependencies for binary packages.  Sometimes these aren't enough, so you have to add some manually.  When adding manually, one just enters the package name, and doesn't try to use a shell expansion variable.
[16:21] <bmk789> so i wont usually need to list dependancies like that, shlibs will take care of it?
[16:23] <StevenHarperUK_> persia : im reading http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy ta for info
[16:24] <stani> POX_: is #debian-python active?
[16:24] <persia> stani: OFTC
[16:25] <stani> persia: what does that mean?
[16:25] <Hobbsee> on the oftc network
[16:25] <stani> stani: what is the best way to contact daniel holbach? I'd like to start a motu dictionary.
[16:26] <persia> stani: #debian-python is on the OFTC IRC network (I recommend irc.debian.org to get a nearby server).  #ubuntu-motu is on the freenode IRC network (I recommend irc.ubuntu.com to get a nearby server)
[16:26] <ScottK> !oftc
[16:26] <ubot3> Factoid oftc not found
[16:26] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Would an OFTC factoid be a good one to have?
[16:27] <stani> !SRU
[16:27] <ubot3> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[16:27] <persia> stani: I'd recommend starting one in MOTU/Dictionary on the wiki, and sending dholback an email (his address can be found from his launchpad page: start from https://launchpad.net/people)
[16:27] <bmk781> it built! without errors! :)
[16:28] <stani> persia: ok, I will do that, although now I realise that this ubot3 also works with private messages.
[16:28] <Hobbsee> ScottK: perhaps, when ubotu actually comes back
[16:29] <persia> bmk781: Excellent.  Now you get to play with lintian and linda to find all the bits you missed :)
[16:29] <ScottK> OK
[16:29] <stani> so probably it is a good idea to get all the factoids published on the net/wiki
[16:30] <bmk781> ah, it installed and runs perfect, thank you persia and POX_ for all the help
[16:30] <Hobbsee> blueyed: ping
[16:31] <blueyed> Hi Hobbsee
[16:31] <Hobbsee> blue
[16:31] <Hobbsee> blueyed: in the TOS that you agreed to for PPAs, you agreed to not DDOS the servers.
[16:31] <joumetal> Hobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qalculate-gtk/+bug/102328 What to do next?
[16:31] <ubot3> Malone bug 102328 in qalculate-gtk "New upstream release available" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[16:31] <zul> Hobbsee:
[16:31] <zul> yesssssss..
[16:31] <Hobbsee> joumetal: ah yes, i got a mail back from the debian maintainer about that
[16:31] <blueyed> Hobbsee: Do you mean the OOo upload??
[16:32] <Hobbsee> blueyed: all three of them.  yes.
[16:32] <persia> Three!!!?!
[16:32] <Hobbsee> blueyed: people have been wondering why their packages are having to wait 17+ hours, and it's because you DDOS'd the buildds.
[16:32] <Hobbsee> persia: yes.  all didnt build.  check his packages page.
[16:32] <blueyed> persia: https://edge.launchpad.net/~blueyed/+archive/+builds?build_text=openoffice&build_state=all
[16:32] <Hobbsee> blueyed: please be more responsible, before you get thrown out of ppas.
[16:33] <Hobbsee> persia: 3 in 2 days.  quite impressive.
[16:33]  * persia grumbles about the benefits of arranging for local build farms except when testing for specific issues with Soyuz buildds
[16:34] <Hobbsee> well, each didnt build on one arch at least, it appears
[16:34] <blueyed> Hobbsee: I just wanted to provide packages for a bug. How should I know how limited the build servers are? Only the last upload has been build btw. All others exitesd after 20-30 minutes, because of not correctly provided patches.
[16:34] <imbrandon> wow Hobbsee you work on LP now? dident know you made the judgement calls on "what was toooo much" to upload to the ppa's, nor that that would be considered a DOS attack
[16:34] <Hobbsee> blueyed: if you really need to keep rebuilding open office, it would be a good idea to test on your own package.
[16:35] <blueyed> Hobbsee: the last i386 build failed because of too less space it appears. I'll stop it.
[16:35] <persia> s/package/build farm/
[16:35] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i didnt, but i've seen people yell at doko for trashing the buildds :)
[16:35] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: and the same applies for ppa
[16:35] <imbrandon> cool , but i wouldent threaten someone
[16:35] <zul> suuure..
[16:35]  * persia supports Hobbsee's call from an completely impartial position: it's a MOTU call, doesn't need other affiliation
[16:36] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: not threatening, per se.  just saying what's likely to happen when the LP guys try to find out about it.
[16:36] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: and they will, because people are whining in there asking why their packages havent been built :)
[16:36] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, no that wasent a "likely to happen" it was a threat, you might not have MENT it that way but across irc , meanings dont convey well
[16:37] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, great let them make that call then
[16:37] <blueyed> Hobbsee: it's bug 131526 - would be nice if someone would care about it. At least there seems to be a patch..
[16:37] <ubot3> Malone bug 131526 in openoffice.org "[gutsy] OpenOffice crashes/hangs on errors in current gtk theme" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131526
[16:37] <imbrandon> persia, its not our place to say whats tooo much per the TOS of an agreement we have no control over, its not a ubuntu resource its a canonical one
[16:37] <zul> blueyed: have you talked to the oo developer?
[16:37] <blueyed> zul: no
[16:38] <persia> imbrandon: No, but it's our place to have opinions about what might be too much (and Hobbsee can't kick someone out anyway)
[16:38] <zul> blueyed: then you should probably do so
[16:38] <imbrandon> while i totaly agree 3 oo.o uploads might be much, whigning should be done to the LP PPA team
[16:38] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: but it becomes an ubuntu issue if most people cant get tehir stuff published in reasonable timeframes, due to one person dos'ing the builds.
[16:38] <persia> imbrandon: It's also our place to complain when we can't build...
[16:39] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: if it was just the case of the machines having to work constantly, i wouldnt care per se - but this is relating to a whole lot of other people's work, due to the repeated dos - and i'd call that an ubuntu issue, as it's stopping ubuntu development.  wouldnt you?  :)
[16:39] <imbrandon> sure, but idle threats are not cool
[16:39] <persia> Hobbsee: Play Nice
[16:39] <Hobbsee> wasnt threatening at all.  just mentioning the TOS, and why it migth be a bad diea.
[16:39]  * persia steals LongPointyStick
[16:40] <imbrandon> no no no, you said no "might" or "likely" or anything , you presented your self like you had the will and power to do so
[16:40] <blueyed> zul: who do you mean? And what should I say? Please provide test packages and the upload it to Ubuntu??
[16:40] <imbrandon> especialy still calling it a DOS attack ...
[16:41] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: true.  on the reasonable suspicion that if i person keeps thrashing the builds indefinetly, not allowing others access, that they will get stopped.
[16:41] <persia> imbrandon: Other's service ha been denied (although it's not a deliberate attack)
[16:41] <blueyed> Hobbsee: please take a look at my PPA logs and how long I've really DOSed the servers! It's really not that bad IMHO
[16:41] <blueyed> https://edge.launchpad.net/~blueyed/+archive/+builds?build_text=openoffice&build_state=all
[16:41] <jdong> is there someone I can do favors for that would make a build go faster?
[16:41] <imbrandon> the TOS also dosent state a timeframe on service , so no service was denied, just delayed in "your eyes" not even the team responisable
[16:42] <blueyed> Hobbsee: I get your point though, of course.
[16:42] <Hobbsee> jdong: i'm not (currently) a buildd admin
[16:42] <Hobbsee> blueyed: cool :)
[16:42] <persia> blueyed: True.  The first ones were quick.  Still, good to try to build elsewhere on a couple arches first.
[16:42] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, you can see the buildtimes though without being an admin
[16:42] <Hobbsee> persia: or at least one arch :)
[16:42] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: granted.
[16:43] <imbrandon> and one arch was 6 hours, not 17+
[16:43] <blueyed> persia: yes. Apparently I'll have to do the i386 build now somewhere else, because the PPAs can't handle it space-wise it seems.
[16:43] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: the backlog quoted was 17 hours.
[16:43] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: I have made all the changes to the control and rules files to comply with pycentral
[16:43] <Hobbsee> based on a guy in #launchpad, anyway.
[16:43] <jdong> lamont: you're a buildd admin, right? Is there anything I can do to convince you to fasttrack https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/2.5.0.4-1ubuntu1/+build/425769? It's a critical step towards fixing bug 57875 and has been sitting in queue for days
[16:43] <ubot3> Malone bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
[16:43]  * norsetto hugs imbrandon and Hobbsee "together"
[16:44] <persia> blueyed: You might ask here (when it gets a little quieter).  There are a few people with spare cycles on buildds around, although OOo is *huge*
[16:44] <imbrandon> Hobbsee, Build started 12 hours ago on samarium (xen-i386) and finished 5 hours ago taking 6 hours 30 minutes
[16:44] <imbrandon> 6 hours
[16:44] <stani> offtopic: the ppa session in ubuntu-classroom seems to be canceled as the speaker didn't show up. Nobody here who could stand in?
[16:44] <norsetto> stani: not for the life of me
[16:45] <Hobbsee> stani: who's supposed to be there?
[16:45] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: Good.  I'm still reviewing the last one, and will skip the next one (remember my note about getting reviews from lots of different people).
[16:45] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: yes I do, im about to bug hobbsee:p
[16:46] <Hobbsee> don't look at me, i'm not supposed to do REVU stuff.
[16:46] <hellboy195> Shouldn't it now be possible to remove packages from the ppa in the new launchpad version? I haven't discovered it yet :(
[16:46] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: Better not to bug anyone.  Just ask for review (no more than once a day unless you've addressed issues), and wait.  If you ask too much, people may stop reviewing.
[16:47] <persia> Hobbsee: Did you get banned from REVU because of ACCEPTED?
[16:47] <norsetto> persia: didn't this remember you something?
[16:47] <Hobbsee> persia: banned?  no, was a choice.
[16:47] <persia> norsetto: this sentence no verb
[16:48] <norsetto> persia: duh?
[16:48] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: ok
[16:49] <Hobbsee> persia: possible conflict of interests, as it were.
[16:50] <persia> Hobbsee: Exactly.  Let's call it a ban - I'll stick it on an agenda if you like :)  Better to have you officially disallowed then possibly perceived as shirking.
[16:50] <Hobbsee> heh
[16:50] <Hobbsee> well, i'm not supposed to accept new stuff (yet, i think( anyway
[16:51]  * norsetto looks up shirking
[16:51] <persia> Hobbsee: That7s a technical issue.
[16:51]  * persia wishes that there was a useful keymap for this keyboard
[16:52]  * norsetto notes that this VERY usefull word
[16:53]  * norsetto wishes his cat would let go of his left hand
[16:53] <stani> hobbsee: thanks for stepping up
[16:53] <Hobbsee> stani: no problem
[16:57] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: 428 commented.
[17:03] <Hobbsee> stani: a woeful attempt at an ad-hoc session, i'm afraid :(
[17:05] <stani> hobbsee: I think most people left already
[17:06] <Hobbsee> stani: yeah, i expect so
[17:06] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: thanks
[17:07] <stani> hobbsee: especially after: (17:22:05) mrevell: FayZee_: I'm going to set it as cancelled. Unfortunately, I can't find the person who was due to give it.
[17:07] <Hobbsee> yay...
[17:08] <StevenHarperUK_> persia : The packaging doesn’t appear to comply with the New Python Packaging Policy,- what does t hat mean : are ther any details?
[17:08] <stani> ScottK, persia & POX_: so how do I go from here with spe. Through PAPT?
[17:08] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: I thought you already fixed that.
[17:09] <StevenHarperUK_> in the next one yes :p
[17:09] <persia> stani: PAPT will get your fix into Debian, and be a good long term solution.  It's probably also the best way to solve the issue for future Ubuntu releases.  For gutsy, we'll need to do an SRU.
[17:10] <stani> persia: so for PAPT I will do spe 0.8.4.b as there is no problem (wxpython2.8), only on ubuntu gutsy there is a need for a SRU
[17:10] <persia> stani: So, the first step is to make sure about whether it happens in Feisty if the user installs wxpython2.8
[17:10] <stani> so hopefull spe 0.8.4.b will be in Hardy
[17:11] <stani> I can check that right now
[17:11] <jdong> stani: are you the stani of spe?
[17:11] <jdong> or is that a different one?
[17:11] <persia> stani: Right.  Working with PAPT will be the best way to do that.  For the short patch for the older releases, we need to do a little more manual work.
[17:11] <stani> jdong: no it is me, why?
[17:11] <jdong> stani: cool, nice to meet you :)
[17:11] <jdong> I like spe a lot
[17:12] <stani> ah thanks, I thought everyone here uses vim
[17:12] <persia> jdong: As you're a user, would you mind helping stani with an SRU?
[17:12] <norsetto> * cough *
[17:12] <stani> jdong: are you a motu?
[17:12] <jdong> persia: I'm extremely busy today :(
[17:12] <jdong> stani: not yet, hope to be soon
[17:12] <stani> jdong: ok, good luck
[17:12] <persia> jdong: No problems :)
[17:13] <jdong> ok, now, back to reviewing for this math exam in 2 hours
[17:13] <jdong> *hugs all*
[17:13]  * persia hands norsetto a lozenge
[17:13] <norsetto> persia: thx
[17:13] <stani> jdong: it doesn't need to be today. Do you have time in the near future?
[17:14] <jdong> stani: this weekend is probably good
[17:14] <stani> jdong: that is fast enough
[17:14] <stani> jdong: please send me an email, I am sure you know how to reach me
[17:15] <jdong> stani: sure thing :)
[17:15] <stani> jdong: it is just a very small fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spe/+bug/124896 Copy it and look at it in the weekend.
[17:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124896 in spe "[GUTSY] spe crashed with AttributeError in LoadFile()" [High,Confirmed]
[17:16] <jdong> stani: ok, logged, I'll take a look when I get time
[17:16] <persia> jdong: stani: Feel free to ping me if you don't get a sponsor quickly
[17:16] <stani> persia: thanks!
[17:17] <stani> jdong: I like to learn to process as well, so you can let me do the work and play the boss ;-)
[17:21] <norsetto> stani: you may want to look at this for the time being: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU
[17:21] <stani> norsetto: thanks
[17:22] <stani> persia: I've sent an email to daniel holbach about the dictionary together with another idea how to make the step to motu more easy for python developers
[17:22] <persia> stani: Great.
[17:22] <stani> persia: I hope the jabber address on launchpad works
[17:24] <persia> stani: It should.
[17:27] <stani> persia: it got back
[17:27] <stani> persia: I tried the same address but with ubuntu.com after the @
[17:27] <stani> persia: let's see if that works
[17:28] <stani> persia: but if he is the contact person for motu, a working email address on launchpad would be nice
[17:28] <persia> stani: Yeah, well.  Some things are less ideal than others.  Perhaps you could send your proposal to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c, and the MOTUs will discuss generally.
[17:31] <lamont> jdong: what do you mean? it's already built...
[17:32] <norsetto> stani: what about: print 'You need to install python-wxgtk%s to run SPE.\n'%WX_VERSION
[17:34] <norsetto> stani: and I would say: wxversion.select(WX_VERSION) too?
[17:36] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: I have completed all the bits you requested/highlighted on you last review, there is a new package to review (at your leisure) thanks persia
[17:36] <persia> StevenHarperUK_: No.  As I said before, I won't review it again.  You need different opinions to have the best package.
[17:37] <minghua> persia: Do you uses scim?
[17:37] <stani> norsetto: wxversion.select(WX_VERSION): I agree
[17:37] <StevenHarperUK_> persia: ok ill ask about  thanks thou
[17:37] <persia> minghua: Yes.
[17:37] <minghua> persia: I assume you uses deadkeys, too?
[17:38] <persia> minghua: No.  I have 106 keys.  I don't need deadkeys.
[17:39] <StevenHarperUK_> Hi, I am looking for some reviews from MOTU's of my package on REVU, it currently has no Advocates: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=431
[17:39] <stani> norsetto: 'You need to install python-wxgtk%s to run SPE.\n'%WX_VERSION: well the program is called wxpython, but the package is called python-wxgtk, that is why I put the (sudo apt-get install python-wxgtk2.6). This should not be necessary as apt takes care of it. For me it doesn't matter so much. But I always speak about wxpython, not about python-wxgtk. What do you think is the best?
[17:40] <minghua> persia: Ah.  So Portuguese doesn't use much diacritic?  Thanks... I am looking for someone who uses both scim and deadkeys.
[17:40] <norsetto> stani: I did use the package name on purpose, but mind you that this would only be meaningful in a debian based system
[17:41] <persia> minghua: I generally only type in English and Japanese.  Portuguese uses lots of diacritics.
[17:41] <minghua> persia: I see.  Thanks.
[17:43] <stani> norsetto: I'll update the patch with your suggestion. I prefer to keep the two names, as in my view it better informs the user.
[17:44] <norsetto> stani: Ok, but please do not suggest sudo apt-get, leave it to the user how to install
[17:47] <persia> stani: norsetto: ScottK mentioned some time ago that the directions on how to install should be dropped.  It's already guaranteed by the dependencies, so the condition should never occur.  Further, it's not part of the minimal patch for the SRU.
[17:48] <norsetto> stani: something like: SPE needs wxPython v%s to run; please install the python-wxgtk%s package (just a proposal)
[17:48] <norsetto> persia: yes, there should not be a direction on how to install
[17:49] <persia> norsetto: Right.  So the change under discussion should be left as distributed in feisty and gutsy: no patch required (and no change)
[17:49] <norsetto> stani: (just a proposal) is not part of the proposal of course :-)
[17:49] <stani> norsetto: persia: ok, i didn't know about that
[17:50] <norsetto> persia: what do you mean no change? I thought we'd agreed to propose an sru for this on gutsy?
[17:50] <persia> norsetto: Right, but the change should only be to force python 2.6, not to change the comment about installing wxpython.
[17:51] <stani> persia: in my patch I also changed the comment
[17:51] <stani> persia: that is on what norsetto reacted
[17:51] <norsetto> persia: the chnage is needed to the source code, unless you make the two packages conflict and 2.6 takes precedence, which I don't think is what we want
[17:51] <persia> stani: Right.  You'll want to revert the comment change for the minimal patch.
[17:52] <persia> norsetto: Yes, but only the runtime version detection change is required: not the comment change.
[17:52] <norsetto> persia: well, the comment as it is now must be changed, so, why not make it right?
[17:52] <stani> persia: norsetto: the comment will never be displayed indeed as apt takes care of it
[17:52] <persia> (it already depends on wxpython2.6, so the user will never see that message on an Ubuntu system)
[17:53] <stani> norsetto: the dependency is right, spe package depends only on 2.6
[17:54] <norsetto> persia, stani: ok, lets go for the minimal patch then, I agree
[17:54] <persia> norsetto: If the comment could ever be shown, I'd agree with you :)
[17:54] <norsetto> persia: well, you never know :-/
[17:55] <persia> norsetto: Yeah, well, if someone breaks apt they get to keep both pieces.
[17:55] <stani> persia: norsetto: some news, the bug also affects feisty if wxpython2.6 and 2.8 are installed
[17:56] <minghua> we have wxpython 2.8 in feisty?
[17:56] <stani> the package python-wxversion has the selection machinism
[17:56] <persia> stani: Then we get to make two SRUs.  It won't affect edgy (no wx2.8)
[17:56] <persia> minghua: Yes, but it was not the default.  It's default for gutsy.
[17:56] <stani> persia: yes
[17:57] <minghua> I see.  I always thought otherwise.
[17:57] <minghua> python-wxgtk2.8 | 2.8.1.1-0ubuntu4 | feisty/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
[17:57] <minghua> Should have checked myself. :-P
[17:57] <persia> minghua: There you go.  Chroots are useful :)
[17:57] <stani> minghua: that is why i like ubuntu, it has updated packages ;-)
[17:58] <minghua> persia: Nah, that's just rmadison output.
[17:58] <norsetto> rmadison rulez
[17:59] <minghua> stani: Well, on WxWidgets front I agree, but generally Debian unstable has roughly the same new version as Ubuntu (I assume you are comparing with Debian).
[17:59] <stani> ok i need to, thanks for all the help!
[17:59] <persia> minghua: You haven't interacted much with Ron, have you?
[18:00] <stani> minghua: before I worked with suse & redhat (before fedora), not debian, but that is long time ago before
[18:00] <minghua> persia: Who is the Ron you are talking about?  But I assume yes, as I can't think of a Ron I've talked much with.
[18:00] <persia> minghua: wx maintainer
[18:01] <minghua> stani: Ah, then I wouldn't know.  My short experience with Fedora core 6 is not bad, though.
[18:02] <minghua> persia: No, haven't interacted with him at all.  But reading bug reports gives me the impression that it's a blessing... :-P
[18:04] <persia> minghua: Nice guy, but different
[18:04] <jpatrick> I'm getting "dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address" - but I've put the MOTU address in the control file, does anyone know what's wrong?
[18:05] <persia> jpatrick: Your revision string doesn't contain "ubuntu"
[18:06] <persia> (e,g, 0ubuntu1)
[18:06] <jpatrick> "knights (0.6-8ubuntu1)"
[18:06] <norsetto> jpatrick: whats the Maintainer field in control?
[18:07] <jpatrick> "Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"
[18:07] <norsetto> jpatrick: perhpas its just a tupo
[18:07] <norsetto> tupo is a typo for typo
[18:08] <minghua> Yeah, I was suspecting typo as well, but that line looks correct.
[18:08] <jpatrick> refuses to make src pkg: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42255/
[18:09] <norsetto> jpatrick, persia: perhaps its a typo before, and the parser doesn't recognise the right field?
[18:10] <minghua> jpatrick: The version in your pastebin is not the same as the one you said above.
[18:10] <jpatrick> minghua: yes, that's but that's what the REPORT file said I should do
[18:11] <norsetto> jpatrick: yes, you should use the last ubuntu version with -v
[18:11] <jpatrick> norsetto: which is what I'm doing
[18:11] <norsetto> jpatrick: I assume thats a merge, and that version was the last ubuntu version
[18:12] <jpatrick> yes
[18:12] <minghua> jpatrick: Never mind, I read wrong and thought that's the version of your new package.  What you did is correct.
[18:12] <norsetto> jpatrick: perhaps when you edited that control file some control characters, tabs, etc. are in there which are confusing the parser
[18:13] <norsetto> jpatrick: I know it happens with changelog (personal experience)
[18:13]  * norsetto refuses to use dch, so there
[18:14] <jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42257/ - control and changelog files
[18:16] <jpatrick> well, it beats me
[18:18] <norsetto> jpatrick: try using -mmaintaineraddress to see what happens
[18:18] <jpatrick> norsetto: same
[18:19] <norsetto> with another maintainer? like norsetto@ubuntu.com?
[18:19] <minghua> jpatrick: In what environment are you building?  gutsy?  hardy?
[18:19] <jpatrick> gutsy
[18:20] <jpatrick> norsetto: same with that too :|
[18:20] <norsetto> jpatrick: with -emaintaineraddress ?
[18:20] <stani> I have updated the patch for spe as minimal as possible on launchpad. Now it only changes one line. I guess this is the best.
[18:21] <persia> stani: Excellent, and does it work?
[18:21] <jpatrick> norsetto: exactly the same, sorry
[18:21] <jpatrick> oh, damn!!
[18:21] <norsetto> jpatrick: doh :-O
[18:21] <jpatrick> I was editing the knights-0.6-8ubuntu1/ dir not the updated one
[18:22] <jpatrick> so sorry
[18:22] <norsetto> jpatrick: lol
[18:24] <jpatrick> norsetto: now, it's working, thanks
[18:24] <norsetto> jpatrick: de nada
[18:28] <stani> persia: to be sure, I just tested on feisty, yes it works
[18:29] <persia> stani: Great.  The next step is preparing a candidate revision for hardy.  It needs to get put into hardy before we can SRU.  When hardy releases, it will likely be with 0.8.4.b, but that will be after you work with PAPT.
[18:29] <persia> stani: So, how much have you worked with debian-format packages?
[18:30] <ScottK> persia: Maybe not as Debian doesn't have wxpython2.8
[18:30] <stani> persia: not really a lot
[18:30] <persia> ScottK: Still?  Ron told me he was working on it months ago.  Perhaps everyone else actually convinced him to wait to 3.0
[18:31] <stani> persia: I have done my first deb package of phatch
[18:31]  * ScottK is just going on what POX_ said about it.
[18:32] <stani> persia: the spe package looks easy for this fix as it contains the upstream version and the patches in a diff.gz file
[18:32] <stani> persia: does jdong have enough experience for this?
[18:32] <persia> stani: Right.  That does make it easy to fix.  I presume you've downloaded the current source?
[18:33] <stani> persia: otherwise he can guide me.
[18:33] <minghua> persia: I can confirm Debian doesn't have 2.8 yet.
[18:33] <stani> persia: I did apt-get source spe
[18:33] <persia> stani: Yes.  jdong can help make a candidate, if you'd prefer.
[18:33] <POX_> Debian has 2.6.3.2.2-1 and from what I read in many mails on debian-devel, 2.8 is very buggy
[18:33] <stani> it looks like I can just copy and paste it in the diff
[18:33] <POX_> and I trust maintainer, he really knows wx
[18:33] <persia> minghua: Yes, the archives don't, but I don't follow the lists: if an upcoming transition plan was in place, I wouldn't know.
[18:34] <stani> but i am not sure which tools i should use
[18:34] <minghua> persia: Is there even a list about wxwidgets stuff?
[18:34] <ScottK> stani: jdong is a reliable guide.
[18:34] <POX_> stani: how about preparing a version for Debian unstable and then ask in Ubuntu sync it (via SRU or whatever will be needed)
[18:35] <stani> persia: I don't prefer anyone yet, but as he is spe user... he will be more patient with me ;-)
[18:35] <ScottK> POX_: His current version needs wxpython2.8
[18:35] <persia> minghua: There are a couple wxwidgets lists, but they don't cover debian: I was thinking of the debian lists.  The Debian maintainer works very closely with upstream for special Debian versions, which are a little different, but tend to work very well.
[18:35] <persia> stani: OK.
[18:35] <stani> ScottK: That is not true
[18:35] <ScottK> stani: OK. My mistake.  Sorry.
[18:35] <stani> scottK: at least if you talk about spe
[18:36] <ScottK> I was.
[18:36]  * ScottK misunderstood.
[18:36] <stani> spe 0.8.4.b is compatible with 2.6 and 2.8
[18:36]  * ScottK mistook will work with and must work with.
[18:36] <ScottK> In that case, I withdraw the comment.
[18:36] <stani> I always support two versions as I know that not every distribution ships the last one
[18:36] <minghua> persia: Well, all I know about discussion of wxwidgets2.8 in Debian is Debian bug 403237 and it's duplicates.
[18:36] <ubotu> Debian bug 403237 in wxwidgets2.6 "wxwidgets2.6: new stable upstream version 2.8.3" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/403237
[18:37] <stani> but spe 0.8.4.b is  not released yet
[18:37] <persia> Right.  So the plan for 0.8.4.b remains to work with PAPT & sync.
[18:37] <ScottK> stani: I think working with jdong and persia for an SRU here and POX_ in DPAT for the new version is a very good plan.
[18:37] <norsetto> yippie: Accepted: knights 0.6-8ubuntu1 (source)
[18:37] <POX_> spe in Debian is orphaned so it will be easy to take over
[18:37] <stani> ScottK: I agree.
[18:37] <stani> POX_: Haha, yes it is my baby!
[18:37] <ScottK> stani: Then talk to the upstream about releasing it ;-)
[18:38] <persia> minghua: Ah.  Then it's my fault.  I need to push ecos, ctsim, and survex a little harder.  Sorry about that.
[18:38] <POX_> hey, doko was previous maintainer
[18:38] <POX_> and he is in the team
[18:38] <stani> POX_: I am only afraid it is quite complicated, as SPE ships with wxGlade, XRCed and Winpdb
[18:38] <POX_> wait, he is only in DPMT, not PAPT
[18:38] <ScottK> POX_ likes complicated ...
[18:39]  * POX_ doesn't like complicated ;-P
[18:39] <minghua> persia: If you can push a bit for Debian's wxwidgets update, it will be very appreciated.
[18:39] <stani> POX_: so upgrading SPE is upgrading all of them
[18:39] <POX_> we have Winpdb in PAPT and it is maintained by bzed who will become DD soon
[18:39] <stani> POX_: who is bzed?
[18:40] <POX_> Bernd Zeimetz
[18:40] <POX_> he really knows what is doing
[18:40] <stani> POX_: I am working together with Nir (author of winpdb) on the new release of winpdb.
[18:40]  * ScottK goes back in hole and tries to get some $WORK done.
[18:40] <persia> minghua: I have a good handle on survex, and some ideas for ecos, but ctsim has completely crushed me.  If you have some time to help, it would be great.
[18:40] <ScottK> See you.
[18:40] <stani> POX_: It will probably out next week
[18:41] <POX_> I will take a look at spe tomorrow, I have some pakcages to review today
[18:41] <stani> POX_: previous version of winpdb might not be compatible with python2.5
[18:41] <POX_> we have 1.2.2-2 now
[18:42] <stani> POX_: Thanks, I am afraid spe package is not so clean.
[18:42] <POX_> and 1.2.5 is in the repo (waiting for official upstream release)
[18:42] <minghua> persia: Sorry, I'm afraid I won't have time.  I'm merely a user. :-P
[18:43] <stani> POX_: really? 1.2.5 is beta! We just fixed an important bug two days ago.
[18:43] <POX_> that's why it's still only in our repo
[18:44] <stani> POX_: Anyway probably winpdb is a good package for me to study as it is quite simple.
[18:44] <stani> POX_: I am more afraid of wxGlade
[18:45] <POX_> I till take a look tomorrow and we'll figure something out, no worryu
[18:46] <stani> POX_: Ok, in the weekend I probably won't be here. Is there another way how I can contact you if I have questions?
[18:46] <POX_> piotr@debian.org
[18:46] <stani> POX_: thanks
[18:47] <stani> POX_: I just send you an email so I don't forget it.
[18:48] <POX_> ok
[18:59] <hellboy195>  hey, a stupid question. I reinstalled ubuntu and so I lost my private gpg key. I only saved the public one. Isn't it possible to recover the old one?
[19:00] <minghua> hellboy195: No, unless you can recover your old ~/.gnupg directory.
[19:01] <hellboy195> minghua: looks bad
[19:03] <persia> hellboy195: You could try to crack your key, but unless you get extra lucky, that will likely take a very, very, very, very, very long time
[19:04] <hellboy195> persia: well. I think I make a new one ;) and now I take care :D well how can I disable the old one?
[19:06] <persia> hellboy195: With the revocation certificate you created with your old secret key.
[19:06] <hellboy195> persia: ok thx
[19:08] <hellboy195> persia: how long should the new key live? any advice?
[19:10] <SWAT> perhaps the wrong channel but: where/how can I report wiki abuse?
[19:10] <persia> hellboy195: I set my keys to expire after 1 year, just in case I lose both the secret key and the revocation certificate.  When the time limit approaches, I approve it for another year.
[19:11] <persia> SWAT: First step is just to fix it.  Repeated violations get reported to community council (I believe)
[19:11] <hellboy195> persia: ok thx
[19:11] <SWAT> persia, hmmm, ok, thanks. I don't think there's a procedure for it yet
[19:18] <contrast83> Is there a reason the package for startupmanager depends on Firefox?
[19:21] <Kmos> contrast83: no
[19:22] <zul> contrast83: use the source luke
[19:22] <contrast83> heh... alright.
[19:23] <Kmos> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html -> the new startupmanager 1.9.8 is at debian new
[19:23] <geser> contrast83: I see now firefox in the Depends line for startupmanager
[19:24] <geser> ah, startupmanager depends on yelp and yelp depends on firefox
[19:26]  * persia suggests this will be reduced to xulrunner for the next release
[19:41] <hellboy195> persia: so. now I have a new key. how can I save it (the private key(?)) so can not loose it again?
[19:42] <zul> print it out somewhere make a backup? that kind of stuff
[19:43] <dredg> --export-secret-keys and make a safe backup?
[19:45] <hellboy195> ah. thx
[19:49] <hellboy195> but there is something wrong. gpg --list-secret-keys  is the same than  gpg --list-public-keys
[19:51] <dredg> nah. there are differences
[19:52] <dredg> subtle, but they're there
[19:52] <dredg> -pub   1024D/CB6E5CF7 2004-09-13
[19:52] <dredg> +sec   1024D/CB6E5CF7 2004-09-13
[19:52] <dredg> -sub   2048g/564B349C 2004-09-13
[19:52] <dredg> +ssb   2048g/564B349C 2004-09-13
[19:53] <hellboy195> ok thx
[20:08] <zul> later folks
[20:20] <AstralJava> Is there no such thing as #ubuntu+1 anymore, or is pidgin broken? Two times I tried to join, two times it ended up on #ubuntu.
[20:22] <Nicke> AstralJava: It forwardes to #ubuntu atm, since Gutsy just was released
[20:22] <Nicke> was just*
[20:23] <AstralJava> Ahh... okay, thanks. Opens after the UDS?
[20:23] <Nicke> (it did the same when Feisty was released).. it will probably open soon again
[20:23] <Nicke> I've no idea really :)
[20:23] <AstralJava> That's alright, thanks anyway. :)
[20:23] <Nicke> np :)
[20:23] <mruiz> ping bluekuja
[20:30] <effie_jayx> is there a good glade IRC channel around
[20:30] <effie_jayx> ?
[20:32]  * ScottK blinks
[20:32] <norsetto> scottK: do you know if the -proposed queue is accessible from LP?
[20:33] <ScottK> Yes.  I think so.  What are you looking for?
[20:33] <norsetto> rutilt-0ubuntu5.1
[20:33] <norsetto> sorry rutilt-0.15-0ubuntu5.1
[20:34] <ScottK> Not Accepted by the archive into -proposed yet, so no. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rutilt
[20:36] <norsetto> ok, what I meant was the queue to get into -proposed, I guess there isn't
[20:37] <ScottK> No.
[20:37] <ScottK> Not that is generally accessible.
[20:38] <norsetto> and for what you know, it is normal that a package sits there for days I guess
[20:38] <rexbron> persia: I have written a manpage for genpo and homoginized the license headers on all of source files (but not the organs) and sent both upstream
[20:41] <ScottK> norsetto: Yes.  Particularly right now while people are travelling to UDS.
[20:42] <norsetto> scottk: thats right
[20:42] <norsetto> scottK: I thought you were planning to be there a couple of days actually?
[20:43] <ScottK> norsetto: If you ask Riddell nicely he might Accept it for you.
[20:43] <ScottK> norsetto: Yes, but it's not far for me.  I'll leave Saturday night.
[20:44] <norsetto> scottK:no, thx, no need for that, I can wait, its not such a popular package
[20:44] <norsetto> ScottK: you going with bddebian? I though he was from somewhere there too
[20:46] <ScottK> He decided not to go AFAIK.
[20:51] <bddebian> Aye, I just got back from a management meeting and I have to be home for Halloween with the girls :-(
[20:56] <StevenHarperUK> In my debian control file I have : XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Steven Harper <StevenHarperUK@gmail.com> : on REVU some comments say I should set the Maintainer (the main one) to MOTU : is that MOT@ubuntu.com or something else? anyone know?
[21:00] <StevenHarperUK> should it be : Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
[21:04] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
[21:04] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: ta
[21:06] <StevenHarperUK> Can someone have a look at my debian/rules file according to a review its calling dh_install twice : http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/easycrypt/debian/rules
[21:09] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: thats correct, its being called twice
[21:09] <mruiz> hi all. To start with merges do I need to setup a Hardy chroot ?
[21:09] <Mez> hmm, where's brandon? (holtsclaw)
[21:09] <norsetto> mruiz: depends, just a pbuilder with base hardy could do
[21:09] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: what do I change please
[21:10] <norsetto> mruiz: what are you using now, have you been using for gutsy while on feisty?
[21:11] <mruiz> norsetto, I'm using Gutsy
[21:11] <norsetto> mruiz: ok, so you have never used a chroot or pbuilder?
[21:12] <mruiz> I used pbuilder before (I helped with some packages for Gutsy :-) )
[21:13] <norsetto> mruiz: so, I guess it would be better if you stick with that; you have two options, either you dist-upgrade your gutsy pbuilder, or you create a new one for hardy
[21:14] <mruiz> I prefer to create a new one :-)
[21:14] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: deleting the one in install/easycrypt:: should do
[21:14] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: is the other one the pycenral?
[21:15] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, its the default binary target, you have the same problem with dh_installman
[21:15] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: so I dont need either of them?
[21:16] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: you are not using python-central btw
[21:16] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: I would delete the dh_installman call and use a manpages file instead
[21:16] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: can you help me get it right?
[21:17] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: just a sec, I'm checking to see if there is some other duplicate
[21:17] <StevenHarperUK> ok
[21:18] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: do you define a mime type in your desktop file?
[21:19] <mruiz> norsetto, but what about packages created with gutsy stuff? Have you ever have problems after hardy pbuilder build?
[21:19] <norsetto> mruiz: sorry?
[21:20] <StevenHarperUK> noretto: I dont think so http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/easycrypt/easycrypt.desktop
[21:20] <mruiz> norsetto, I'll change packages using gutsy stuff, but I'll build them with hardy stuff.
[21:20] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: right, in principle you could do away with the dh_desktop call, I think its called twice too
[21:21] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, it isn't, so, you can leave it there if you want
[21:23] <mruiz> norsetto, anyway... I'll give it a go :-)
[21:23] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: for the man page its very simple, just add a manpages file with just easycrypt.1 in it; this will be installed automatically
[21:24] <norsetto> mruiz: as long as you don't build, you can do what you want with the source in gutsy
[21:25] <norsetto> mruiz: some utilities packages might be updated in hardy, so you may want to backport them (for instance, I had to do it with desktop-file-validate)
[21:26] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I have a http://www.squeezedonkey.com/svn/linux/easycrypt/easycrypt/debian/easycrypt.1 already
[21:27] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: thats right, what I mean is that in the manpages file you just have the text "easycrypt.1"
[21:30] <StevenHarperUK> ah ta
[21:30] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I dont have a manpages file
[21:30] <StevenHarperUK> is it just debian/manpages
[21:31] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: actually, if it is in debian, it should be "debian/easycrypt.1"
[21:31] <StevenHarperUK> it is there
[21:32] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, so from your source tree root, do echo "debian/easycrypt.1" > debian/manpages and that should be it
[21:34] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto so no dh_install or dh_installman needed anymore
[21:35] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, they are automatically called by cdbs, and use the install and manpages files as input
[21:35] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: what does that mean
[21:35] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: you may want to check man dh_install and man dh_installman for the nitty gritty
[21:37] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: the debian/manpages and debian/install files (or, if your package has foo1 and foo2 binary packages, your foo1.manpages, foo2.manpages etc.) are used by dh_install and dh_installman as input files
[21:38] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: so, for instance in the install one, you specify which file(s) must go where, etc.
[21:38] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: have you got patches in your package?
[21:39] <StevenHarperUK> no patches it all my code Im upstream
[21:39] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: then you don't need this: include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk
[21:40] <StevenHarperUK> thanks
[21:40] <norsetto> this: export DH_VERBOSE=1 is fine now since you want to know whats going on, but you may omit or comment once ready
[21:40] <StevenHarperUK> ok
[21:40] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: do you use distutils?
[21:41] <mruiz> norsetto, I'll create a Hardy chroot then :-)
[21:41] <norsetto> mruiz: as you wish, whatever is best for you ;-)
[21:41] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: refresh that webpage, I have updated it
[21:41] <StevenHarperUK> please
[21:44] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: so, do you use distutils?
[21:45]  * mruiz creating hardy chroot :-)
[21:46] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I copied the rules, I honestly dont know exactly how it works
[21:46] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto I use debuild to build
[21:49] <LaserJock> Adri2000: ping
[21:49] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: right, I've never done a package without distutils before, but I think you don't need this in this case: export DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pycentral
[21:49] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: might be wrong though, so its better to check it
[21:50] <StevenHarperUK> I have followed the new python packagin guide
[21:50] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: do you change your modules from one python version to another, or they are the same?
[21:50] <LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: where's that?
[21:50] <geser> StevenHarperUK: distutils helps upstreams to provide an install method for the users
[21:50] <norsetto> geser: he is upstream .....
[21:51] <StevenHarperUK> there the same version
[21:51] <geser> norsetto: I know
[21:51] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: than you don't need this: export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove
[21:52] <norsetto> geser: ok, so just wanted him to use it ... hear hear StevenHarperUK
[21:53] <StevenHarperUK> LaserJock: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
[21:53] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: the dh_pycentral call should be in binary-install
[21:54] <LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: ah, right
[21:54] <LaserJock> I was wondering if there was a new new one ;-)
[21:54] <Adri2000> LaserJock: pong
[21:54] <norsetto> LaserJock: its the old new one ;-)
[21:54] <LaserJock> Adri2000: I'm confused about the pbuilder-dist bug
[21:54] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: can you refresh that page again??
[21:54] <LaserJock> Adri2000: by don't you guys just set --mirror and --other-mirror?
[21:55] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove is still there
[21:56] <Adri2000> LaserJock: yes currently pbuilder-dist calls pbuilder with --mirror $archive and --othermirror $archive $components. that works if $components is set to main only in pbuilderrc.
[21:57] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: the guide siad I have to have it
[21:57] <StevenHarperUK> Sure I can remove it
[21:57] <LaserJock> Adri2000: right, what's the problem with that?
[21:58] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: if you have modules which can't be shared between python version thats correct, but you said you don't
[21:59] <StevenHarperUK> ok your right
[21:59] <StevenHarperUK> refresh the page if you like
[21:59] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: any reason to install in /usr/share/apps/easycrypt/?
[22:00] <Adri2000> LaserJock: there is a warning saying "duplicate repository" (because we put the same repository in mirror and othermirror), and it doesn't work anymore if $COMPONENTS is not "main"
[22:00] <StevenHarperUK> Yes that where the Python dbeain policy ays you put all Architecture files
[22:00] <LaserJock> Adri2000: there shouldn't be a duplicate and why would you have something other than "main"
[22:01] <LaserJock> it should work perfectly fine if you haven't messed around with /etc/pbuilderrc
[22:01] <Adri2000> no
[22:01] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto do you want me to find the webpage for that info?
[22:02] <Adri2000> LaserJock: well, the bug was reported by ScottK: pbuilder-dist doesn't work with debian because it tries ubuntu components. actually it tries the components in pbuilderrc, which by default are main restricted (and maybe universe and multiverse). I gave a workaround: set $COMPONENTS to main, but that's only a workaround and not a real fix to the bug
[22:03] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes please, I would like to know, because I thought /usr/lib was more appropriate
[22:03] <StevenHarperUK> /usr/lib is for architecture dependant files
[22:03] <Adri2000> LaserJock: also, using --mirror and --othermirror is clearly a workaround the fact that until now it was not possible to specifix the components via the command line. now we should just use --mirror and --components
[22:03] <LaserJock> Adri2000: it doesn't work for Debian pbuilders or on Debian systems
[22:04] <StevenHarperUK> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-programs.html#s-current_version_progs
[22:04] <Adri2000> s/specifix/specify/
[22:04] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, all python packages I have seen had them in /usr/lib, but I can very well be wrong
[22:04] <StevenHarperUK> These modules should be installed in /usr/share/module, or /usr/lib/module if the modules are architecture-dependent
[22:04] <Adri2000> LaserJock: why?
[22:04] <LaserJock> Adri2000: that was a question
[22:04] <LaserJock> I'm using my scripts just fine on both Debian machines and for Debian pbuilders
[22:05] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: after doing this im gunna be almost be ready to review other peeps packages
[22:05] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: that would be good
[22:05] <Adri2000> LaserJock: bigon's patch makes it work with both debian and ubuntu...
[22:06] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: there isn't much info on Python packaging
[22:06] <LaserJock> Adri2000: I'm just saying, it seems straightforward to make it work both for Debian and on Debian
[22:06] <LaserJock> Adri2000: so I don't get why you guys are having such a problem
[22:06] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, and on top of that dh_pycentral is telling me /usr/lib/package and /usr/share/package are standard locations
[22:07] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: and the python policy says /usr/lib/pythonX.Y
[22:07] <bddebian> Later gang
[22:07] <Adri2000> LaserJock: take a clean install of gutsy, install pbuilder and u-dev-tools, pbuilder-dist sid create will fail
[22:07] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: Its very confusing finding documentation that agree's I have had a very frustrating time getting this far, but it looks like im ther now
[22:08] <LaserJock> Adri2000: I know, but I don't know why it's been messed up
[22:08] <LaserJock> Adri2000: you just set --mirror
[22:08] <Adri2000> with --mirror you can't tell which components you want. that why until now we are using --othermirror
[22:09] <LaserJock> so?
[22:09] <Adri2000> because with --othermirror you can specify the components
[22:09] <Adri2000> now that we have pbuilder --components, let's use it
[22:09] <LaserJock> you don't need to specificy the components, it's always Main
[22:09] <LaserJock> well, if it's broken then it's no use ;-)
[22:10] <Adri2000> it's main restricted (universe multiverse) or main (contrib non-free)
[22:10] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, if you don't specify the path, since you use pycentral I think they will be installed in /usr/share/pycentral, so that should be ok
[22:11] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: in that case you don't need to specify the path to dh_pycentral
[22:12] <Adri2000> LaserJock: do you agree that using --mirror and --othermirror is not logical? we use only one repo (the official one). bigon's patch is only to make pbuilder-dist work in anycase, and to remove that --othermirror workaround. there is really no problem with that patch, except that it won't be easily backportable, but that's not a good reason imo
[22:14] <imbrandon> wow , the MOTU Q&A is quiet .......
[22:14] <imbrandon> .... hears birds chirp .....
[22:16] <ajmitch> there's a Q&A session?
[22:16] <LaserJock> Adri2000: well, I think --mirror and --other-mirror is fine
[22:17] <LaserJock> you're just adding more deb lines, like in sources.list
[22:17] <LaserJock> I can do one line for each component if I want
[22:17] <LaserJock> but I need to at least have main
[22:18] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, thats confirmed by the policy "The location of the private modules is determined automatically by pycentral."
[22:18] <Adri2000> LaserJock: it adds two *identical* lines in sources.list, that's not very clean, and you get warnings when you update the chroot
[22:18] <LaserJock> why are they identical??
[22:19] <imbrandon> ajmitch, yes as part of OpenWeek, i'm running it with LaserJock and geser but is very very dead
[22:19] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: but then how do I call it with a /usr/bin/easycrypt ???
[22:19] <LaserJock> with --mirror you're saying "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy main"
[22:19] <Adri2000> no
[22:20] <Adri2000> it's --mirror http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
[22:20] <LaserJock> but that's the effect
[22:20] <Adri2000> and for the components it uses $COMPOENTS from pbuilderrc
[22:20] <Adri2000> +P
[22:20] <LaserJock> so don't screw around with $COMPONENTS
[22:21] <Adri2000> so we don't support changing conf files?
[22:22] <Adri2000> imagine someone uses pbuilder-dist for some things but also uses directly pbuilder, he will want to config his pbuilderrc as he wants for that
[22:22] <Adri2000> pbuilder-dist should still work correctly
[22:22] <LaserJock> I don't think there's an easy way to do that is my point
[22:22] <LaserJock> the whole point of the script was so that you *never* have to touch pbuilderrc
[22:23] <Adri2000> it's not necessary, but you should still be able to
[22:23] <LaserJock> well, these scripts are a hack in the first palce
[22:23] <LaserJock> *place
[22:23] <LaserJock> you can do everything without them too
[22:24] <Adri2000> sure, but we include it in the archive, so it should work at least
[22:24] <Adri2000> and the easy way to do that is to use pbuilder --components
[22:24] <bigon> +1
[22:24] <Adri2000> I wrote the pbuilder patch which adds this option, only to fix that pbuilder-dist bug
[22:25] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: whats that, your wrapper script?
[22:25] <LaserJock> well, tbh I think you're creating much more work than needs to be done
[22:25] <StevenHarperUK> Yup
[22:25] <LaserJock> but I tend to just keep it simple
[22:26] <StevenHarperUK> Yeh does anyone know if the PPA builder is very behind..... did that openoffice build really create a huge backlog?
[22:26] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, let me check some packages, but I think its either /usr/share/pycentral or /usr/share/easycrypt
[22:27] <LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: openoffice takes 12+hrs to build I think
[22:27] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I would prefer if I passed it the path, the guide does say your allowed to
[22:27] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: yes, its should be /usr/share/easycrypt
[22:27] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: let pycentral handle it for you
[22:27] <StevenHarperUK> That sound like a recipe for diaster
[22:28] <StevenHarperUK> **disaster
[22:28] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: quote the contrary, it may well save you some trouble later on
[22:28] <StevenHarperUK> But if I let it choose the final location, then my wrapper script will break
[22:28] <StevenHarperUK> if it ever changes
[22:30] <LaserJock> Adri2000: can you verify that --mirror + --other-mirror will work?
[22:30] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: no, I wouldn't be worried by that, it may well be the contrary, that /usr/share/apps its deprecated
[22:31] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: lets have a look at control now
[22:31] <LaserJock> the essential problem that I see with pbuilder-dist is that it is a giant workaround
[22:32] <StevenHarperUK> I would prefer to manually place it there thou
[22:32] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: even manually /usr/share/easycrypt its still the best place, so, what are you gaining?
[22:33] <StevenHarperUK> im gaining  that it will ALWAYS be there and my wrapper and desktop and menuitems will work
[22:34] <StevenHarperUK> If pycenral moves it to a new location then it all breaks
[22:34] <Adri2000> LaserJock: --mirror + --other-mirror will work only if $COMPONENTS==main, and will work with warnings
[22:35] <LaserJock> ok, so
[22:35] <LaserJock> now what happens when you use $COMPONENTS+--mirror?
[22:35] <norsetto> StevenHarperUK: well, you have to trust the tools we make available, if you don't, than there isn't much we can do for you
[22:36] <Adri2000> LaserJock: --mirror $ARCHIVE --components $COMPONENTS ? everything works perfectly
[22:36] <Adri2000> that's what we want to do
[22:36] <StevenHarperUK> hehe ok ill do it : just cause it makes me feel sad that you think I dont trust you
[22:36] <LaserJock> Adri2000: ok, so what's the bug?
[22:37] <Adri2000> LaserJock: ScottK doesn't want it because --components is only available in the latest pbuilder, so it will make u-dev-tools not easily backportable
[22:38] <LaserJock> well
[22:38] <LaserJock> why don't we have a dep on the right version of pbuilder for the current packages
[22:39] <LaserJock> and then just backport scripts to the older packages
[22:39] <Adri2000> I think u-dev-tools only recommends or suggests pbuilder
[22:40] <LaserJock> well, whatever
[22:40] <LaserJock> A note would work
[22:40] <LaserJock> I just don't think it's worth a ton of effort
[22:40] <LaserJock> you could have pbuilder-dist give an error message perhaps
[22:40] <LaserJock> or check what version of pbuilder and change behavior accordingly
[22:41] <Adri2000> or do not backport u-dev-tools... or backport it with pbuilder...
[22:42] <LaserJock> yep
[22:42] <LaserJock> personally I thought --mirror --other-mirror was just fine
[23:05] <norsetto> g'night all
[23:14] <LaserJock> heh, I just get a weird feeling when people start automating packaging
[23:14] <LaserJock> I guess I'm just not geeky enough ;-)
[23:16] <crimsun_> err, you've been "automating packaging" for quite some time...
[23:16] <LaserJock> yes and no
[23:17] <LaserJock> of course I've been using automation, debuild, debhelper, etc.
[23:18] <LaserJock> but on the other hand I don't script changelogs, rules, or bug reports
[23:18] <crimsun_> a fairly narrow view IMNSHO
[23:18] <crimsun_> PPA, Packaging Guide, etc., are all forms of "automating packaging"
[23:19] <ajmitch> you don't?
[23:20] <LaserJock> all right fine
[23:20] <LaserJock> ;-)
[23:21]  * ajmitch has changelog manglers & all
[23:21] <LaserJock> it just seems like there should be some threshold of "this needs real eyeballs"
[23:21] <ajmitch> certainly
[23:21] <LaserJock> no, I've never touched changelog, rules, or bug reports with a script
[23:21] <ajmitch> requestsync? :)
[23:21] <LaserJock> never used it
[23:22] <ajmitch> oh my
[23:22] <LaserJock> never used reportbug automatically either
[23:22] <crimsun_> pfft, that's for wussies.  I'd much rather plop in non-eyeballed apt-get.org sources anyhow!
[23:22] <ajmitch> ^5 crimsun_
[23:22] <LaserJock> I *have* done 1 control.in though
[23:23] <LaserJock> that's the only thing I've scripted I think
[23:23] <LaserJock> I've always created dpatch patches manually :/
[23:24] <LaserJock> at some point I gotta figure I'm just being inefficient
[23:24] <LaserJock> which is why I don't upload much
[23:25] <LaserJock> I would guess I average something like 30min-1hr per upload
[23:26]  * ajmitch averages 2-3 months per upload
[23:26] <LaserJock> hehe
[23:26] <LaserJock> well actually working on them
[23:26] <LaserJock> I'm guessing you have a lot of in-between time ;-)
[23:26] <ajmitch> a bit, yes
[23:35] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: You've never even used dch?
[23:38] <LaserJock> ahhhh
[23:39] <LaserJock> you got me there
[23:39] <LaserJock> although I don't use it a ton
[23:41] <ajmitch> you never use cdbs? :)
[23:41] <ajmitch> or debhelper, for that matter
[23:42] <LaserJock> well, I say that I used automated tools
[23:43] <LaserJock> *said
[23:45] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Do you know of any changes to the LP release process? I've had some of my bugs milestoned to 1.1.10 yesterday, but they're only High, so that seems useless...
[23:45] <LaserJock> hmm
[23:46] <LaserJock> newly milestoned?
[23:46] <Fujitsu> Yeah, and deliberately (ie. originally 1.1.11 soon after I filed them, but somebody came along and changed to 1.1.10)
[23:46] <LaserJock> I did see a few that were High and I wondered why they weren't Critical as it sounded like they were going to be cherry picked
[23:47] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[23:47] <Fujitsu> I wonder if they've now worked a point-release sort of thing into their schedule.
[23:47] <Fujitsu> That would make sense, considering how much they break.
[23:47] <LaserJock> yeah
[23:47] <LaserJock> I'll have to ask kiko about it
[23:48] <Fujitsu> Even brand new features not working. It's incredible.
[23:48] <LaserJock> maybe they need a 6-month release schedule ;-)
[23:50] <Fujitsu> I guess it would help if they had testing, but that relies on no DB schema changes, so edge can update.
[23:59] <jdong> Anyone interested in sponsoring an Azureus upload into Hardy for me?