[00:44] <coreymon> to whoever knows what im talking about
[00:44] <coreymon> i got leopard!
[00:45] <Tm_T> :(
[00:45] <nixternal> coreymon: is it all that and then some?
[00:54]  * gnomefreak needs a mac first
[00:55]  * Tm_T doesnt need a max
[00:55] <Tm_T> mac
[00:55] <gnomefreak> unless you found a way to run it on pc
[00:55] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: ty that too
[00:55] <gnomefreak> oh your typo
[00:55] <Tm_T> :p
[00:56] <Tm_T> I'm happy with Kubuntu
[00:56] <gnomefreak> now that they are intel based if the proc is same intel i dont see why running it on pc wouldnt be possible
[00:58] <Tm_T> only other OS I'm interested to buy is BeOS Zeta
[00:58] <Tm_T> but oh thats not possible =)
[00:59] <nixternal> gnomefreak: imbrandon has run OS X on a PC
[00:59] <gnomefreak> BeOS as in linux (cant remember if its debian based or not off hand)
[00:59] <coreymon> so am i
[00:59] <coreymon> im very happy with kubuntu
[00:59] <coreymon> i just have a macbook
[00:59] <gnomefreak> is it a normal install or do you have to fudge it a bit?
[00:59] <coreymon> gnomefreak: me
[00:59] <coreymon> ?
[00:59]  * gnomefreak can get a copy for nothing
[01:00] <gnomefreak> coreymon: if you run OS X on a reg pc
[01:00] <coreymon> gnomefreak: i think you have to mess around a bit
[01:00] <coreymon> gnomefreak: i have a macbook anyways, so makes no diff to me
[01:01] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: ?
[01:01] <coreymon> gnomefreak: but i think on a regular pc, you have to mess around a bit
[01:02] <coreymon> gnomefreak: its a liscence and warranty violation though
[01:02] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: 0259 < gnomefreak> BeOS as in linux (cant remember if its debian based or not off hand)
[01:02] <gnomefreak> yep i know
[01:02] <coreymon> so dont expect any support, even on the irc channel
[01:02] <Tm_T> what you mean by that?
[01:02] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: BeOS as in the linux distro?
[01:02] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: no, BeOS as the OS
[01:02] <Tm_T> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnussoft_ZETA
[01:02] <gnomefreak> oh thinking of something else than
[01:02] <coreymon> gnomefreak: i suggest just buying a real mac :P
[01:03] <gnomefreak> coreymon: yeah if they were $2000 USD and up
[01:03] <coreymon> gnomefreak: oh ya, things are a bit more expensive in the states nowadays for americans!!! :p
[01:03] <gnomefreak> Working state: Dismissed  << not a good sign
[01:04]  * coreymon gloats about the soaring loonie
[01:04] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: yes, rights issues :(
[01:04] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: if they just had spread all sources open so we could have it for free ;-P
[01:05] <gnomefreak> very true
[01:05] <coreymon> gnomefreak: hows being second to the canadian dollar doing for you guys?
[01:06] <gnomefreak> coreymon: dont know didnt know it changed all i know is shit is getting expensive
[01:06] <coreymon> gnomefreak: wlecome to our world!
[01:07] <coreymon> gnomefreak: now you get a taste of what we have been dealing with for the past 30 years
[01:07] <gnomefreak> coreymon: last mac i bought (was for my god daughter) was over 5 years ago and i paid ~2500 dollars i can just imagine what it is now
[01:08] <coreymon> gnomefreak: finally, canadians get the upside of the coin!
[01:08] <coreymon> gnomefreak: punn intended
[01:11] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: http://download.freenet.de/archiv_z/zeta_live-cd_7560.html
[01:11] <gnomefreak> archive down?
[01:13] <Tm_T> ?
[01:13] <Tm_T> what you mean?
[01:14] <gnomefreak> most of zeta archives are down
[01:14] <gnomefreak> do you have this page in english :(
[01:15] <Tm_T> no
[01:16] <Tm_T> http://ftp.freenet.de/pub/filepilot/linux/system/zeta/ZETA_LiveCD_1.21.zip
[01:16] <Tm_T> :(
[01:18] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: better luck with that?
[01:20] <gnomefreak> hold on a  sec
[01:20] <Tm_T> :p
[01:21] <gnomefreak> freenet.de is dutch
[01:21] <gnomefreak> no?
[01:21] <Tm_T> german
[01:22] <gnomefreak> ok its a zip file?
[01:22] <Tm_T> which containing needed files
[01:22] <gnomefreak> so unzip and burn it as image?
[01:22] <Tm_T> IIRC it contains image
[01:23] <gnomefreak> ah ok ill try it
[01:24] <gnomefreak> that a bug zip file
[01:25] <Tm_T> ?
[01:25] <gnomefreak> -bug +big
[01:25] <Tm_T> heh
[01:26] <Tm_T> 600 MB image
[01:26] <gnomefreak> 229.3
[01:26] <Tm_T> yes, the zip
[01:26] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[01:27] <gnomefreak> damn thats a good compression
[01:32] <coreymon> shit
[01:32] <coreymon> the vnc prograam and speed built into  leopard is incredible
[01:33] <coreymon> its basically full speed!
[01:27] <claydoh> ewww zeta is yuck
[01:27]  * claydoh is a former BeOS user
[01:27] <claydoh> never loked zeta, felt slow
[01:28] <Tm_T> claydoh: heh
[01:28]  * claydoh checks out haiku now and again
[01:28] <claydoh> man the Be on my old 233mhz box could play 5 videos at the same time, no log or slowdown
[01:29] <claydoh> lag
[01:32] <claydoh> hmmm
[01:32]  * claydoh wonders if it will install in virtualbox.....
[01:32] <claydoh> lol distracted again
[02:54] <Daskreech> Welcome back all
[02:54]  * Daskreech gives back the torch
[02:56] <nixternal> nice split
[03:06] <Daskreech> Yeah
[03:06] <Daskreech> Interesting that begert_ remained while begert got kicked
[03:11] <booga> PC and laptop
[03:11] <Tm_T> where?
[03:12] <booga> that is weird though......wonder what I am breaking now
[03:12]  * booga is begert
[03:16] <Daskreech> Hi booga
[03:16] <Tm_T> booga night!
[03:16]  * Tm_T dances
[03:16] <Tm_T> ...wait, boogie, not booga
[03:16] <booga> bah, I don't know what I did
[03:17] <booga> whatever, sup guys
[03:17] <booga> compiling KDE is hard :(
[03:17] <booga> not having a very good time with this
[03:17] <Daskreech> no ./configure ?
[03:17] <Tm_T> :(
[03:17] <Tm_T> building KDE4 is fun <3
[03:18] <Daskreech> There is a KDE4B4 ?
[03:18] <Tm_T> yes
[03:18] <Tm_T> hum, is there?
[03:18] <Tm_T> hum, wait
[03:18] <booga> I am trying to build kde4
[03:19] <Tm_T> 1224 < CIA-4> mueller * r729576 /tags/KDE/3.95/ (19 files in 18 dirs): tagging KDE 4.0 beta4 / KDE Platform RC1
[03:19] <Tm_T> bah
[03:19] <Tm_T> happened 17 hours ago
[03:19] <booga> CMake Error: your CXX compiler: "CMAKE_CXX_COMPILER-NOTFOUND" was not found.
[03:19] <Tm_T> or more
[03:20] <Tm_T> booga: did apt-get build-dep kdefoofoo magic already?
[03:20] <booga> ......bwah?
[03:21] <booga> I am following steps on http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Build/KDE4#Kubuntu_and_Debian
[03:22] <Tm_T> hrrrr
[03:29] <booga> maybe I will just stick to writing bug reports for awhile :P
[03:30] <Tm_T> haha
[03:30] <Tm_T> booga: you wont learn without trying
[03:30] <booga> I tried.....I will try again later
[03:30] <booga> tired of googling for the moment
[03:32] <Daskreech> Cool they have a Kubuntu walkthrough :)
[03:32] <Daskreech> Riddell: Awake?
[03:32] <Tm_T> Daskreech: cant be in this early
[03:33] <Daskreech> damn I keep trying to rationalize KDe4 for Kubuntu in my head
[03:35] <Daskreech> The assumption is that 8.10 ships KDE4 right?
[03:35] <stdin> we hope
[03:36] <Daskreech> Hi Hobbsee
[03:36] <Daskreech> How goes?
[03:37] <Hobbsee> hiya
[03:37] <Hobbsee> reading ScottK's mail
[03:38]  * Daskreech goes to see if ScottK sent him mail
[03:38] <Hobbsee> it's on the MOTU ML
[03:38] <Tm_T> mooooh
[03:38] <Daskreech> Ah then I didn't get it :)
[03:39] <Daskreech>  what's it about?
[03:39] <Hobbsee> have a read
[03:39] <Tm_T> anyone interested to test one tiny thing in Amarok ?
[03:43] <Tm_T> hmm, so that doesnt work, time to use magical Kate
[03:46] <Tm_T> freeflying: hi
[03:46] <freeflying> Tm_T: hi
[03:46] <Tm_T> how areyou?
[03:47] <freeflying> I'm fine. thanks
[03:47] <Hobbsee> urgh.  that's right, i need to blackhole the kubuntu-members address
[04:03] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: urm?
[04:06] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: so we dont keep getting mails of build failures
[04:07] <Tm_T> errr
[04:07] <Tm_T> like?
[04:07] <Hobbsee> ppa build failures?
[04:08] <Daskreech> anyone does LPI?
[04:15] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: any example mail?
[04:15] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: you arent getting it?
[04:15] <Tm_T> no, sorry
[04:17] <Hobbsee> odd
[04:17] <Daskreech> So
[04:18] <Daskreech> I'm interested in the upgrade of LTS-> LTS
[04:18] <Daskreech> but I'm also interested in the dist upgrade from KDE3 to a KDE4 Kubuntu
[04:19] <Tm_T> :(
[04:19]  * Tm_T feels plain stupid
[04:19] <Daskreech> Should the upgrade ask if they want to keep the KDE3 stuff around?
[04:20] <Tm_T> Daskreech: IMHO they should "co-exist" one way or another
[04:20] <Daskreech> Yes I don't have an issue with them coexisting
[04:21] <Tm_T> Daskreech: so yes, should ask, if not keep them without asking
[04:21] <Daskreech> But should someone who wants to move over to KDE4 HAVE to reinstall or scrub KDE3 stuff manually?
[04:22] <Hobbsee> they're supposed to coexist.
[04:22] <Hobbsee> no - different ~/.kde dirs
[04:23] <Daskreech> Yeah I know they will live fine together
[04:25] <Daskreech> Just trying to figure out the user experience of getting there
[04:39] <Tm_T> Daskreech: hum, there should be no "user experience" as they have separate settings and all
[04:39] <Tm_T> except, you have to do settings all over again ofcourse :(
[04:39] <Daskreech> Yes but will they get confuzzled by having two konqueror options?
[04:39] <Daskreech>  and one of them works and the other doesn't
[04:40] <Daskreech> By works I mean remembers your bookmarks etc
[04:40] <Tm_T> awww
[04:40] <Tm_T> true
[04:41] <Daskreech> nixternal: ping
[04:41] <Daskreech> I guess mhb ping as well
[04:44] <Hobbsee> Riddell: stealing your 2 red universe merges
[04:51] <nixternal> yo yo
[04:51] <Hobbsee> hiya nixternal
[04:51] <nixternal> well hello there Ms. Hobbsee :)
[04:51] <nixternal> how are you this fine day?
[04:52] <Hobbsee> well, i havent quit motu yet
[04:52] <nixternal> and of course with Beta 5 comes the introduction of kde4base-runtime... yay \o/
[04:52] <nixternal> who needs MOTU when you are a core-dev anyways :)
[04:52] <Daskreech> hey nixternal how do you think we should document the KDE3->KDE4 move?
[04:53] <nixternal> do you really want to know?
[04:53] <nixternal> seeing as it is just me trying to document about 30,000 lines for KDE 4 in KDE right now?
[04:54]  * Hobbsee grumbles at debian
[04:54] <Hobbsee> nixternal: heh
[04:55]  * nixternal grumbles at everything :)
[04:55] <n8k99> nixternal what sort of documenting are you referring to, in code documenting or community docs that will help users switch?
[04:55] <nixternal> I will grumble at debian for this one reason.... their kde4 packages aren't being installed to /usr/lib/kde4 anymore, they are installing it along side KDE 3.5
[04:56] <nixternal> n8k99: KDE application documentation...in code is taken care of by doxygen thank goodness
[04:56] <ttread> Hi I'm looking to get involved with kubuntu development, and could help with doc too
[04:56] <nixternal> ttread: are you familiar with DocBook/XML? and if not, don't worry because I can still abuse you
[04:56] <nixternal> I mean use you :p
[04:56] <n8k99> nixternal:  so you are writing the support documents for kde4
[04:57] <ttread> nixternal, no I never used it before
[04:57] <Daskreech> ttread: Welcome
[04:57] <nixternal> n8k99: yes
[04:57]  * Tm_T hugs #kubuntu-devel 
[04:57] <n8k99> ok, just wanted to be certain that i knew what you were talking about
[04:58] <nixternal> ttread: that is OK. when I get up and documenting here in the next couple months for Kubuntu then I will just take plain text..but the nice thing about the documentation wait, is that it gives you some time to go through the documentation and learn the lingo
[04:58] <n8k99> what have you done so far? nixternal
[04:58] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam
[04:58] <Daskreech> nixternal: ok vote (though this is a stupid question) should users be given the option to dump/keep KDE3 when upgrading to Kubuntu4-by-default release ?
[04:58] <nixternal> n8k99: we have done quite a bit, which would be about 5% :)
[04:58] <Daskreech> ttread: any area you want to help with?
[04:59] <nixternal> Daskreech: sounds good to me...however, we won't be releasing it like so, unless they plan on dist-upgrading..I think that would be a valid dist-upgrade reason though
[04:59] <Daskreech> nixternal: Yeah for someone installing (like me) we don't care
[04:59] <ttread> Daskreech, not sure, I guess where the need is greatest
[04:59] <Daskreech> For anyone dist-upgrading it gets hairy
[05:00] <Daskreech> and we have no Ubuntu people to bounce off either
[05:00] <Daskreech> ttread: Then nixternal or hobbsee is your ma... umm .. yeah hang around thsoe two
[05:00] <nixternal> Daskreech: that would be a pain though
[05:00] <Daskreech> nixternal: yes it would
[05:00]  * Hobbsee eyerolls at -devel
[05:01] <Daskreech> I'm thinking that we should start to work on it from now while there is the research going on for LTS->LTS
[05:01] <Daskreech> Might help us out
[05:01] <Daskreech>  and we are going to have the KDE4 mini roll out in the same time period
[05:02] <n8k99> tricky
[05:02] <ttread> nixternal, Hobbsee, if you point me in a direction I will go chip away at something
[05:02] <Daskreech> Hobbsee: grab him :)
[05:02] <Hobbsee> hmmm....where, though?  :)
[05:03] <Daskreech> Oh wait
[05:03] <Daskreech> ttread: are you a him?
[05:03]  * n8k99 feels useless, sort of like a limp, wet noodle
[05:03] <nixternal> Hobbsee: wth is that all about in -devel?
[05:03] <nixternal> my lord, that is the most retarded thing I have ever seen
[05:03] <ttread> Daskreech, uh yeah
[05:03] <Hobbsee> nixternal: hehe
[05:03] <Daskreech> ttread: Ok can't be too sure :)
[05:04] <nixternal> my god that article makes no sense
[05:05] <n8k99> what article?
[05:06] <nixternal> http://bigcatlinux.com/kufailure.html
[05:06] <Daskreech> Oh this joker again
[05:06] <Hobbsee> yup
[05:06] <Daskreech> He had that article on the day Gutsy shipped
[05:07] <Hobbsee> *snort*
[05:07] <Hobbsee> ther'es one good thing about it though
[05:07] <Hobbsee> it's so unprofessional, that people won't care about it anyway
[05:07] <nixternal> what is that? beside it being a pita to read
[05:07] <Hobbsee> looks more like a blog review
[05:07] <Daskreech> As I can recall it's the only thing on the site
[05:07] <nixternal> looks more like gibberish to me
[05:07] <Daskreech> So what's his purpose in -devel ?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> well, yeah, but it's written to be a blog review
[05:08] <Hobbsee> Daskreech: apparently he's getting paid to write it, or something
[05:08] <nixternal> I mean for christ's sake, he says cosmetically Kubuntu hasn't changed since 6.06
[05:08] <Hobbsee> *snort again*
[05:08] <Daskreech> what?
[05:08] <Hobbsee> yes.  exactly.
[05:08] <nixternal> I should grab a wallpaper with some bubbles and smack him with it!
[05:09] <Daskreech> I still keep wondering why he wants permission to post a badly written caustic article in the first place
[05:10] <Tm_T> =)
[05:10] <nixternal> heh, all I am doing is being an a-hole with my remarks
[05:10] <Tm_T> but he said he's an journalist!
[05:10] <Daskreech> nixternal: hey we need your ahole over here!
[05:11] <nixternal> you know what, it is definitely a language barrier..I didn't catch it at first
[05:11] <Daskreech> Tm_T: The advent of blogs makes every person connected to the net a journalist
[05:11] <n8k99> as a journalist, did he run the testing on more than one platform and recieve a data pool to determine if wifi worked on different chipsets or not?
[05:11] <nixternal> of course not
[05:11] <Daskreech> nixternal: So I have two issues now
[05:11] <Hobbsee> supposedly - but he cant say waht they are, and apparently they all failed.
[05:12] <Daskreech> nixternal: How can we get a Kubuntu release notes working?
[05:12] <nixternal> if you look at the front page of Apple Linux, or Big Cat, whatever it is called, there is a system spec there, maybe he used that machine
[05:12] <Tm_T> Daskreech: you didnt get my joke?
[05:12] <nixternal> Daskreech: what do you mean? I have had them working since like Dapper
[05:12] <Daskreech> Tm_T: I did I'm saying that in his/her mind they probably are a valid journalist
[05:12] <Daskreech> nixternal: on Dist-upgrade ?
[05:13] <Hobbsee> i'm sure i shouldnt blast him
[05:14] <Daskreech> It just occured to me this last upgrade cycle that on upgrading everyone gets an Ubuntu release notes
[05:15] <nixternal> I am lost...I am still reading (4th time through) that article to try and understand it
[05:15] <Daskreech> Since the server can''t really know what your desktop environ is
[05:15] <n8k99> why leave kubutnu on the server, who uses guis on servers?
[05:16] <nixternal> Daskreech: ahh, those release notes....we ditched them for some reason, but I am bringing them back for Hardy
[05:16] <Daskreech> n8k99: I meant the repos server
[05:16] <nixternal> we have already started the transfer process
[05:16] <Daskreech> nixternal: and the servers can pick up a ubuntu machine vs a kubuntu ?
[05:16] <n8k99> no i meant his suggestion at the end of the article
[05:17] <Daskreech> Oh
[05:17]  * Daskreech is obviously getting derailed by a leopa.. I mean a big cat
[05:17]  * Daskreech sits this one out
[05:17] <Hobbsee> i cant believe this guy.
[05:18] <Daskreech> He's persistent
[05:18] <Daskreech> I've not seen someone chase one article that's a personal based opinion in a long time
[05:19] <n8k99> um. me?
[05:20]  * n8k99 suddenly really confused
[05:20] <Daskreech> n8k99: no we believe in you
[05:20] <n8k99> oh ok
[05:22] <nixternal> ok, better
[05:22] <n8k99> yay!
[05:22] <Tm_T> :(
[05:23] <nixternal> I have 3 buffalo wings left, and I am starvin'...what am I to do
[05:23] <nixternal> FOOOOOD!
[05:23] <nixternal> brb
[05:23] <Tm_T> nixternal: bring some food to me too thanks
[05:27]  * Daskreech makes a sandwich
[05:28] <Daskreech> oh right Hobbsee  isn't in planetKDE
[05:28] <Daskreech> :-(
[05:29] <Tm_T> hummm
[05:29] <Daskreech> ttread: So what brings you here?
[05:29] <Hobbsee> Daskreech: no, i'm not.  should i be?
[05:29] <Tm_T> Daskreech: prolly my natural beauty
[05:29] <Daskreech> Oh you said you were going to blog
[05:29] <Daskreech> I just realized I don't have you blog akregated
[05:29] <ttread> Daskreech, I've used Kubuntu as my primary OS for the past couple of years so I thought I should give something back
[05:30] <Daskreech> ttread: Boy I wish you could see my smile
[05:30] <Hobbsee> Daskreech: planet ubuntu
[05:30] <ttread> I did development in MS environment for many years but have not done dev in Linux yet
[05:31] <Daskreech> Hobbsee: Yeah I'll glance at it when I hit work Monday
[05:31] <Daskreech> What kind of dev?
[05:31] <ttread> C++ and web development
[05:31] <Hobbsee> hmmm. i should make you do this rotten assignment then :)
[05:32] <ttread> Hobbsee, sure :)
[05:32] <Daskreech> First thing to help Kubuntu do nixternal and Hobbsee's homework so they have more time to laugh at "journalists"
[05:33] <Tm_T> =)
[05:33]  * Hobbsee is consulting hte textbook, in the hope of being able to figure it out
[05:33] <Hobbsee> unfortunately, the textbook does not appear to tell me what i want to know!
[05:33] <Tm_T> who's making my Koffee then?
[05:33] <Daskreech> genii
[05:34] <Riddell> Hobbsee: thanks
[05:36] <Daskreech> hi Riddell
[05:40] <nixternal> ahh, Riddell was out partying in Cambridge tonight I see :)
[05:40] <Hobbsee> Riddell: no problem
[05:40] <Hobbsee> ttread: i cant figure out how to do a directed graph, vs a non-directed one :(
[05:41] <Daskreech> nixternal: ping
[05:41] <nixternal> bah, that guy is back and laserjock made me speak
[05:42]  * Daskreech jumps up and down and waves hand in front of nixternal
[05:42] <Tm_T> :(
[05:42] <ttread> Hobbsee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_graph#Directed_graph
[05:42] <nixternal> der, I spoke, now you speak :)
[05:42] <Daskreech> ok can the servers diffrentiate between Kubuntu/Xubuntu and Ubuntu?
[05:43] <ttread> Hobbsee, it's been uh, a while since I thought about directed graphs
[05:43] <Hobbsee> ttread: fair enough.
[05:43] <nixternal> Daskreech: what servers?
[05:43] <Hobbsee> nixternal: http://bigcatlinux.com/mandriva.html is the mandriva one
[05:43] <Daskreech> nixternal: The ubuntu servers when someone does a dist-upgrade
[05:44] <nixternal> Hobbsee: that is written by someone totally different
[05:44] <nixternal> Daskreech: no
[05:44] <Daskreech> nixternal: Ok so where would the release notes kick in?
[05:44] <nixternal> I would install as part of the kubuntu-docs package
[05:45] <Hobbsee> nixternal: are you sure?
[05:45] <Hobbsee> nixternal: neither of them can write for shit, though :P
[05:45] <nixternal> Hobbsee: most definitely
[05:45] <Hobbsee> slagging off a people group in the middle of a technical report is really classy.
[05:45] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: xD
[05:45] <nixternal> Hobbsee: I think they tried to install Kubuntu on a typewriter
[05:45] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: xD
[05:45] <Tm_T> AAARGH
[05:46]  * Tm_T dies
[05:46] <Daskreech> nixternal: how does that help them in making a pre upgrade choice?
[05:46] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:46] <nixternal> Daskreech: they read kubuntu.org release notes :)
[05:47] <Daskreech> nixternal: Umm no
[05:47] <nixternal> oh, you are talking the Upgrade Manager aren't you?
[05:47] <Tm_T> sorry, had to
[05:47] <Tm_T> now breakfast
[05:47] <Daskreech> they wake up one morning and wave the grandson off to school go to check the mail and see the upgrade button and click it
[05:48] <nixternal> Daskreech: more than likely, they just created an "ubuntu" set only, which more than likely comes from the original release notes template
[05:48] <Daskreech> then after a few hours of churning and *cross fingers* No crashes they suddenly have two dolphins two konquerors  and two amaroks
[05:48] <Daskreech> nixternal: Right
[05:48] <nixternal> I am sure with some finesse we might be able to do something, but I would have to see how that system works
[05:48] <nixternal> ahh, you are talking with KDE 4
[05:49] <Daskreech> and it can't decipher Kubuntu vs Ubuntu so ok I'll Live with that unless we can get them to append Kubuntu notes for the KDE4 transistion
[05:49] <Daskreech> nixternal: yup
[05:49] <nixternal> well when we push KDE 4, it will more than likely have Replace: in the debian/control file to prevent that
[05:50] <nixternal> While Kubuntu failed to setup or sometimes even recognize the wifi adapters in all the machines tested, Mandriva recognized and provided GUI setup help for all. In the end all of the Mandriva tests were positive while all the Kubuntu tests were failures.
[05:50] <nixternal> THAT IS ABSOLUTE HORSESHIT!
[05:50] <Tm_T> nixternal: I'm not!
[05:50] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:50] <Hobbsee> you'll like this log, nixternal
[05:50] <nixternal> we have the same damn kernel for christ's sake, so if Kubuntu doesn't recognize, neither does manriva...proof positive would be my PrismII card which Mandriva wouldn't let me run Kismet with
[05:51] <Riddell> nixternal: feel free to kick opensorce, he's essentially a troll
[05:51] <nixternal> jesus, they didn't even test Kubuntu, that line right there gave it away
[05:51] <nixternal> Riddell: I don't have the powah!
[05:51] <Hobbsee> cant write for shit, eitehr
[05:51] <Daskreech> nixternal: Ahmm ok so they won't have a say in keeping KDE3 ?
[05:51] <nixternal> haha
[05:51] <nixternal> don't get me wrong, Mandriva is a nice system, but what these guys are doing is tainting their community
[05:51] <nixternal> or this guy rather
[05:52] <Daskreech> Assuming it's a guy
[05:52] <Hobbsee> nixternal: http://pastebin.ca/752255
[05:52] <Tm_T> Daskreech: based on his writings he is
[05:54] <nixternal> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaajfkdajdjafd
[05:54] <nixternal> that was me choking
[05:54] <nixternal> he said he is biased towards slackware....lovely, the wifi nightmare of an os...yet it is still one of my favorites
[05:55] <Hobbsee> [16:51] <OpenSorce> ok, well thanks for telling me all that....now can we move on?
[05:55] <Hobbsee> [16:51] <Hobbsee> if you have something useful to say, because you're clearly not listening to me.
[05:55] <Hobbsee> [16:52] <OpenSorce> Yes, I have.....I know....when a distro fails the devs hate me, my magazine, my writing style, my mother and my boyfriend....yes I get it
[05:55] <Hobbsee> [16:53] <OpenSorce> when it passes they love me and think I'm Anderson Cooper
[05:55] <Hobbsee> [16:53] <Hobbsee> not really
[05:55] <Hobbsee> [16:53] <Hobbsee> if i were a mandriva dev, i'd still not be happy with that report
[05:55] <Hobbsee> [16:54] <OpenSorce> ok, look I'm sorry I bothered you.....I would really like to talk above and beyond your opinion of my writing.....about the what's good for the community....but I'll do it elsewhere
[05:55] <Hobbsee> [16:54] <Hobbsee> good luck.  and dont troll #ubuntu-devel again.
[05:55] <nixternal> this article must be for the onion
[05:56] <Hobbsee> right.  gone.
[05:56] <nixternal> Anderson Cooper? so that means he watches CNN
[05:56] <Hobbsee> nixternal: ahh, is that it?
[05:56] <Daskreech> Awwwww
[05:56] <Daskreech> he'll be in here pretty soon
[05:56] <nixternal> it has to be considering I could write better blind folded with a dvorak keyboard
[05:57] <nixternal> damnit, I don't have powah in here either
[05:57] <nixternal> I can k/b thousands of people, but not 1 :)
[05:57] <Hobbsee> [16:56] <OpenSorce> don't bother, I've left already....keep in mind though.....the next time I come back you won't know it's me or that I am a journalist and your distro will still be judged on whether or not it works
[05:57] <Hobbsee> [16:56] <Hobbsee> yoru style is still the same.  it's not hard to pick.
[05:57] <Hobbsee> [16:56] <Hobbsee> you're from the onion, i presume?
[05:57] <nixternal> hahaha
[05:57] <nixternal> gahahaha
[05:57] <nixternal> pwnd
[05:57] <Hobbsee> [16:57] <OpenSorce> haha
[05:57] <Hobbsee> [16:57] <OpenSorce> I'm not allowed to say
[05:57] <Hobbsee> ah well
[05:57] <nixternal> ie. I am writing for my splog that nobody reads
[05:57] <Tm_T> there we goes
[05:58] <Hobbsee> he loses all his reputation, based on his bias, and justifiably gets kickbnaned.
[05:58] <Tm_T> whats onion btw?
[05:58] <nixternal> Jucato: OpenSorce wants to interview you
[05:58] <Hobbsee> he should be ashamed to be a reporter.
[05:58] <nixternal> she should be ashamed to be breathin our air!
[05:58] <Tm_T> nixternal: noooooo xDD
[05:58] <nixternal> she?
[05:58] <nixternal> wth
[05:58] <nixternal> he
[05:58] <nixternal> wait though, nevermind
[05:58] <Tm_T> nixternal: you just messed my monitor! =)
[05:59] <nixternal> I forgot guys can have boyfriends...my cousin Jim has like 30
[05:59]  * Daskreech waves hands again
[05:59] <Jucato> what da who?
[05:59] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee, nixternal, Tm_T
[05:59] <Daskreech> Hi Jucato
[05:59] <Jucato> hi Daskreech
[05:59] <Jucato> huh what?
[05:59]  * Jucato is so confused...
[05:59] <nixternal> exactly
[05:59] <n8k99> it's all your fault Jucato
[05:59] <Jucato> what did I walk into?
[05:59] <Tm_T> Jucato: mine
[05:59] <nixternal> Jucato: if you just went through what we did, you would be confused as well
[05:59] <Jucato> I knew I shouldn't have gone online on a rainy sunday afternoon...
[05:59] <Tm_T> =)
[05:59] <Daskreech> Jucato: troll with a mask of respect came through
[06:00] <Daskreech> Jucato: raining for you too?
[06:00] <Daskreech> It's lined up for three days here :(
[06:00] <Jucato> I recall the nick OpenSorce... are we going to call him/her/it OpenSores now?
[06:00] <nixternal> hahaha
[06:00] <nixternal> I was going to say that earlier, but didn't want to be disrespectful
[06:01] <nixternal> has anyone taken a look at Big Cat Linux?
[06:01] <nixternal> I mean the screenshots
[06:01] <nixternal> you would think that is so against the law
[06:01] <Jucato> that's the beauty of being pulled into a very confusing discussion the moment you enter the room... you can make blunders and still look cute :)
[06:01] <nixternal> I mean he is using hte apple logo
[06:01] <nixternal> Jucato: hahahaha
[06:01] <nixternal> I guess I should create Big Butterfly Linux to compete against him :)
[06:02] <Jucato> hm... big demon linux...
[06:02] <Jucato> oh wait...
[06:02] <Daskreech> Big Daemon?
[06:03]  * Jucato was referring to BSD...
[06:04] <Tm_T> BSoD ?
[06:04] <Jucato> so... is anyone going to fill me in? still dazzled here :)
[06:04] <nixternal> me too, and I was here
[06:04] <Daskreech> Jucato: I know the big daemon
[06:04] <Tm_T> Jucato: 0749 < Tm_T> http://bigcatlinux.com/kufailure.html ja http://bigcatlinux.com/mandriva.html
[06:04] <Jucato> of course, Hobbsee holds all the answers...
[06:04] <Tm_T> Jucato: for starters
[06:04] <Daskreech> Jucato: Opensores is still asking us to validate hte above article
[06:04] <Jucato> oh that...
[06:05] <Hobbsee> i think he got more than enough ammunition from me
[06:05] <nixternal> holy smokes...my blog post about Kubuntu extras took off...people are posting to the wiki like nuts..which may have been a bad idea...because you start getting a few people to edit a page at once, you are bound to have issues
[06:05] <Hobbsee> but it's not like he's goign to get published anywhere of interest anyway
[06:05]  * Jucato recalls him/her/it coming in here "warning" us that his boss will be publishing that...
[06:05] <nixternal> Hobbsee: a bathroom stall! that is what he is writing for
[06:05] <Jucato> nixternal: technical issues are the least of our worries :)
[06:05] <Hobbsee> nixternal ahh!
[06:05] <Jucato> filtering through krud is more problematic :)
[06:05] <ttread> OpenSores is an insurance agent in the Florida panhandle
[06:06] <nixternal> Jucato: I have a krud filter
[06:06] <nixternal> can you believe this
[06:06] <Jucato> nixternal:  mind if you cp me one? I need it badly otherwise I implode
[06:06] <nixternal> I told people to add applications that are not installed with Kubuntu, and they are adding "Katapult"
[06:06] <Tm_T> =)
[06:07] <nixternal> wow, there are some really great apps that I had totally forgotten about
[06:07] <nixternal> KGet seems to be the most popular
[06:07] <n8k99> nixternal perhaps that means we need to emphasis katapult to people
[06:07] <n8k99> Kget is awesome
[06:07]  * Jucato is winning...
[06:08] <nixternal> why does the name 'Dax Solomon' ring a bell?
[06:08] <n8k99> love how it fits into konqueror, particularly for grabbing music off last.fm
[06:08] <Jucato> nixternal: he's Knightlust
[06:08] <nixternal> ohhhh
[06:08] <nixternal> he is in the Philippines as well right?
[06:08] <Jucato> ubuntu member, my co-loco
[06:08] <Jucato> yeah
[06:08] <nixternal> gotcha
[06:08] <Jucato> where? O.o
[06:08] <nixternal> in the ear!
[06:09] <Tm_T> hummm
[06:09] <Jucato> nixternal: what we need is to let new users be aware that katapult exists, is installed, is running by default, and how to use it...
[06:09] <Daskreech> Jucato: damn you@
[06:09] <n8k99> Jucato: that's what i was trying to say
[06:09] <Jucato> unfortunately, given an epidemic of aversion towards almost any popup notification on Kubuntu... I can't think of how to do that effectively...
[06:09] <Tm_T> hmmmmmh
[06:09] <n8k99> before i got rattled by the wonder of Kget!
[06:10] <Daskreech> -I tried Kget in KDE4
[06:10] <Daskreech>  it's sexy
[06:10] <Jucato> n8k99: just don't suggest that kget be installed by default and you'll be safe :)
[06:10] <Tm_T> hummm
[06:10]  * n8k99 won't dream of it~
[06:10] <Tm_T> what was that "onion" ?
[06:10] <Jucato> nixternal: I love the way MoinMoin makes a link of every WordLikeThis :)
[06:10] <nixternal> Jucato: good idea
[06:11] <Jucato> Tm_T: what onion?
[06:11] <Tm_T> 0757 < Hobbsee> [16:56] <Hobbsee> you're from the onion, i presume?
[06:11] <n8k99> Tm_T: The Onion is a funny newspaper that is full of 'Fake" news
[06:11] <ttread> Tm_T: theonion.com
[06:11] <n8k99> sort of like Colbert in print
[06:11] <Tm_T> aaah thanks
[06:11] <Jucato> spoof of news stuff
[06:11] <Hobbsee> [17:02] <OpenSorce> funny thing is.....I'd love to tell you who I am......make you feel really stupid.....but I think I'll let you find that out on your own :-)
[06:12]  * Hobbsee finds that most amusing
[06:12] <Daskreech> Tm_T: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29130
[06:12] <nixternal> Hobbsee: oh those are my favorite
[06:12] <Hobbsee> the onion writes better than this guy does :)
[06:12] <nixternal> Hobbsee: like he is someone important
[06:12] <nixternal> Hobbsee: don't make fun of the onion...I love it! :)
[06:12] <Hobbsee> well, in his basement, i'm sure he's very important.
[06:12] <n8k99> Do you Know Who I AM? Do you Know Who I AM?
[06:13] <nixternal> we just had them at our uni and they had students write along with them...made for some great writing
[06:13] <Daskreech> Jucato: should users be asked if they want to keep KDE3 on the Kubuntu4-by-default upgrade ?
[06:13] <Jucato> who what when where?
[06:13] <ttread> Does he know he misspelled 'source'?
[06:13] <Jucato> perhaps the nick has been taken already :)
[06:13] <ttread> ah
[06:13] <Jucato> hm.. Daskreech good you asked me about that
[06:14] <Jucato> I know this is probably too early since we don't plan to shit KDE 4.x till 8.10
[06:14] <Jucato> oh shift!
[06:14] <Jucato> !language | Jucato
[06:14] <Tm_T> Jucato: you and your feces
[06:15] <Jucato> anyway, I was just wondering if we're already considering how we're going to implement KDE3 -> KDE4 migration
[06:15] <Jucato> I'm imagining this is going to be a really big first for Kubuntu
[06:15] <Tm_T> Jucato: still remember?
[06:15] <Jucato> my feces? how will I be able to forget that/those?
[06:15] <Tm_T> I mean, you called me feces
[06:16] <ttread> The KDE4 desktop will be available as a package way before 8.10, yes?
[06:16] <Tm_T> thats how we got introduced
[06:16] <Jucato> Tm_T: I believe we sort of knew each other a bit already before that
[06:16] <Jucato> ttread: that's one of the plans I think
[06:16] <Tm_T> Jucato: true, but that was the real hit <3
[06:17] <Jucato> Tm_T: for you. you real hit with me has always been "hello kids"
[06:17] <n8k99> so kde4 will not be on th eLTS?
[06:17] <Daskreech> ttread: Yes which  is why I think we should be testing on this upgrade cycle
[06:17] <Daskreech> n8k99: no
[06:17] <Jucato> n8k99: hope not :)
[06:17] <nixternal> OpenSorce's name is:
[06:17] <nixternal> Peterman, Shawn  opensorce@gmail.com
[06:17] <nixternal> he is from Alabama here in the USA
[06:17] <Jucato> Daskreech: of course, a very optional upgrade
[06:17] <Jucato> nixternal: you scare me..
[06:18] <Jucato> wait, you're already scary
[06:18] <Daskreech> :-)
[06:18] <Jucato> you scarier me :)
[06:18] <Tm_T> nixternal: when we go meet him?
[06:18] <Hobbsee> nixternal: and he writes for?
[06:18] <Daskreech> even when it's not halloween!
[06:18] <n8k99> nixternal: how did you...
[06:18] <Tm_T> nixternal: I take coffee, you take the pun
[06:18] <nixternal> he is an Insurance Agent for AIG
[06:18] <nixternal> he was born in Warner Robbins, GA
[06:18] <ttread> nixternal, the phone # is from Florida
[06:18] <Jucato> ok I'm officially scared of nixternal...
[06:18] <nixternal> he is older, teenage children
[06:19] <Jucato> he could be the FBI....
[06:19] <Daskreech> Naw
[06:19] <Jucato> KBI...
[06:19] <Daskreech> The FBI only track down Child ticklers
[06:19] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[06:19] <Tm_T> Daskreech: me?
[06:19] <Tm_T> HI KIDS!
[06:19] <Jucato> that tickles!
[06:19] <Daskreech> So... how do we inform hapless people what they are getting themselves into for the upgrade?
[06:19] <nixternal> his phone number is 557-6903
[06:19] <n8k99> tee hee
[06:19] <nixternal> for $5 I will give you his area code :)
[06:19]  * Jucato dials
[06:19] <Hobbsee> nixternal: you really should call it :P
[06:20] <Jucato> oh wait... that's the US
[06:20] <nixternal> hahahaha
[06:20] <Daskreech> how should they know if they want a clean KDE4 or a set of applications which work
[06:20] <nixternal> call, if he answers, I will say "You can't write worth a shit!"
[06:20] <Daskreech> !language | nixternal
[06:20] <Ubotwo> nixternal: Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
[06:20] <ttread> nixternal, 850-557-6903 which is Florida panhandle
[06:20] <Jucato> nixternal: actually, it's worth a shit.. bathroom material.. right?
[06:20] <nixternal> I was so wrong though about him
[06:20] <nixternal> ttread: you caught on to me :)
[06:21] <ttread> nixternal, ha ha
[06:21] <Daskreech> actually ttread  said it a long time ago :)
[06:21] <Tm_T> nixternal: how you were wrong?
[06:21] <nixternal> oh
[06:21] <n8k99> i won't touch my bum with his writing
[06:22] <nixternal> Hobbsee: message him back, and say "I know who you are Shawn Peterman"
[06:22] <Daskreech> as fry said. Watch it Bender that's a senstive area
[06:22] <nixternal> and tell him your house was just torn down by a hurricane!
[06:22] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:22] <Daskreech> still don't know who he writes for :)
[06:22] <Daskreech>  So the upgrade issue
[06:22] <Tm_T> "here I am, running like a hurricane!"
[06:23] <nixternal> Scorpions!
[06:23] <nixternal> haha
[06:23] <Jucato> Daskreech: it's a sunday..let it be bwahahah
[06:23] <Tm_T> nixternal: eeexactlyy!
[06:23] <Jucato> j/k
[06:23] <Jucato> no rest for the wicKed
[06:23] <nixternal> speaking of wicKed...has anyone seen wicd?
[06:23] <Hobbsee> nixternal: now lets see what happens :0
[06:23] <Daskreech> What did you do?
[06:23] <nixternal> it seems to be the popular wifi/network mangler for users here in Chicago
[06:23] <nixternal> Hobbsee: did you say it?
[06:23] <Hobbsee> [17:02] <Hobbsee> i'll risk it
[06:23] <Jucato> Hobbsee: careful... Americans are lawsuit trigger happy...
[06:23] <Hobbsee> [17:03] <Hobbsee> do email me the published article.
[06:23] <Hobbsee> [17:03] <OpenSorce> sure, what's your address sweety?
[06:24] <Hobbsee> [17:03] <Hobbsee> look it up
[06:24] <nixternal> hahahaha
[06:24] <Hobbsee> [17:03] <Hobbsee> and i'm not sweety.
[06:24] <Hobbsee> [17:03] <OpenSorce> not worth that much trouble, thanks
[06:24] <Hobbsee> [17:04] <OpenSorce> of course you aren't.....I was merely trying to be friendly :-)
[06:24] <Hobbsee> [17:04] <Hobbsee> creepy, more like it.
[06:24] <Jucato> bwahah! big mistake!! calling Hobbsee sweety
[06:24] <Hobbsee> [17:05] <OpenSorce> I'm from the south...terms of endearment are quite common....sorry to offend
[06:24] <Daskreech> Why does he keep calling you sweety?
[06:24] <Hobbsee> [17:23] <Hobbsee> not like i need you to tell me who you are, anyway.  I already know that.
[06:24] <Hobbsee> [17:23] <OpenSorce> Do you?
[06:24] <Hobbsee> [17:23] <Hobbsee> Shawn Peterman
[06:24] <nixternal> hahahaha
[06:24] <nixternal> is he speachless?
[06:24] <Hobbsee> no idea.
[06:24] <Jucato> bwahahah
[06:24] <nixternal> you just scared the everlasting crap out of him
[06:25] <Hobbsee> [17:24] <OpenSorce> well that is the domain name.....and my real name to be sure. But tell me Sarah, do you know what name I write under?
[06:25] <nixternal> he is cancelling his credit cards and everything right now
[06:25] <Hobbsee> [17:24] <OpenSorce> and no, it is not "J Maxwell"
[06:25] <nixternal> oh, I bet I know who he writes for..one sec, let me check my sources
[06:25] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:26] <Tm_T> Daskreech: asking from users to keep KDE3 (default) Replace KDE3 but keep settings or get rid of it for good?
[06:26] <Hobbsee> [17:25] <OpenSorce> Congrats, on becoming an Ubuntu Core Developer btw, and I mean that seriously
[06:26] <Hobbsee> [17:25] <Hobbsee> ah, here we go
[06:26] <Hobbsee> [17:26] <OpenSorce> what?
[06:26] <n8k99> http://shawnpeterman.com
[06:26] <Daskreech> Well I think we should keep settings regardless
[06:26] <Daskreech>  it's like apt-get remove
[06:27] <Daskreech> It's a courtesy
[06:27] <Tm_T> Daskreech: yes, true
[06:27] <Jucato> Daskreech: kde4?
[06:27] <Daskreech>  only users should remove settings they worked hard to get it there we don't really have a right to take it away
[06:27] <Daskreech> as an assumption
[06:27] <Hobbsee> hah.
[06:27] <nixternal> well he doesn't write for who I thought...
[06:28] <Daskreech> but the environment/programs ... they may want to drop those
[06:28] <Jucato> Daskreech: we could probably make kde4 apps use .kde4 instead of .kde...
[06:28] <nixternal> he definitely doesn't write for anyone big...if anything, his crap is right up there with InfoWorld though
[06:28] <Daskreech> http://www.freelink.cx/
[06:28] <nixternal> although, the people at InfoWorld are at least literate
[06:28] <Daskreech> Jucato: I think Hobbsee hinted at that earlier
[06:28] <Jucato> I wasn't here earlier
[06:28] <Hobbsee> nixternal: who'd you think?
[06:28] <Daskreech> I would expect maybe the first few relelases to do that
[06:28] <Jucato> (depends on how much earlier)
[06:28] <nixternal> oh oh I know I know I know
[06:29] <Hobbsee> [17:26] <OpenSorce> did you dig up the name I write under? Are you truly that clever?
[06:29] <Hobbsee> [17:27] <Hobbsee> perhaps.  wouldnt you like to know?
[06:29] <Hobbsee> [17:28] <OpenSorce> Not really....I also used to sell insurance....but you know that if you went to shawnpeterman.com....and I have a daughter named Sarah :-)
[06:29] <Daskreech> Jucato: I know
[06:29]  * n8k99 cancelled my free subscription to infoworld a month ago
[06:29] <Jucato> Daskreech: I would expect we would have to do that until 4.1 or so.... unless we plan to have KDE 4.x by default, but with some KDE 3 apps
[06:29] <nixternal> nope, I might be wrong again
[06:29] <Daskreech> well until KDE 4.1 shapes up we can't say
[06:30] <nixternal> that has OS News written all over it
[06:30] <Hobbsee> [17:30] <OpenSorce> In any case, I used to write for the Linux Is Freedom Endeavor years ago and some of my articles got picked up my larger venues and published then when Lindows threatened me with a lawsuit I changed the name I write under.....I'm also gay and have a gorgeous boyfriend.....anything else you want to know? :-)
[06:30] <Daskreech> Yeah we knew all of that already
[06:30] <Daskreech>  :-)
[06:30] <Tm_T> where's the new interesting stuff!
[06:31] <Jucato> "I'm also gay and have a gorgeous boyfriend...." I have no idea what bearing this one has....
[06:31] <nixternal> Hobbsee: yay, I called it!
[06:31] <Daskreech> Jucato: we pulled the dig up info card
[06:31] <Daskreech>  he's just matching it
[06:31] <Hobbsee> Jucato: he's realised that i'm female, and so thinks he can lord it over me.
[06:31] <nixternal> Jucato: you know you just got quoted for that one
[06:31] <n8k99> Jucato: he puts the upside down rainbow triangle on his web page-
[06:31] <nixternal> Hobbsee: you are a girl? ewww, I quit!
[06:31] <nixternal> hahahaha
[06:31] <Jucato> so many highlights!!! purty! :)
[06:31] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:32] <Jucato> Hobbsee: shame on him... he should be the first to know not to lord/lady over other because of gender :)
[06:32] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:32] <Daskreech> Jucato: however the KDE4 upgrade takes some handling regardless
[06:32] <Daskreech> does anyone ever lady it over someone else?
[06:32] <Jucato> Hobbsee does
[06:32]  * Jucato runs away
[06:32] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:32] <Daskreech> Jucato:  so I'm thinking at the least we should ask about keeping KDE3 stuff around
[06:32] <Jucato> what do you think her long pointy stick is for?
[06:33] <Jucato> Daskreech: we will have to... no choice about that
[06:33] <Daskreech>  however I think that quite a number of users will have no idea what that means to them
[06:33] <Daskreech> So we need pre upgrade notes
[06:33] <Tm_T> Daskreech: that will always be the case
[06:33] <Daskreech>  And I don't know how to get that to them
[06:33] <Jucato> until KDE 4 reaches around KDE 4.3+ perhaps
[06:33] <Daskreech> Tm_T: What will always be the case ?
 Jucato:  so I'm thinking at the least we should ask about keeping KDE3 stuff around
[06:34] <Hobbsee> [17:32] <Hobbsee> not overly.
[06:34] <Hobbsee> [17:33] <OpenSorce> Ok, as charming as this conversation is, I've decided to scrap the Kubuntu article altogether....it causes too many hard feelings and my objectivity is in question so I think I'll stick with positive articles only henceforth
[06:34] <Hobbsee> nixternal: ^
[06:34] <Jucato> or <Daskreech> however I think that quite a number of users will have no idea what that means to them
[06:34] <Jucato> ???
[06:34] <Tm_T> Daskreech: 0833 < Daskreech>  however I think that quite a number of users will have no idea what that means to them
[06:34] <nixternal> Hobbsee: WE WIN!
[06:34] <Jucato> ah
[06:34] <Hobbsee> :D
[06:34] <Daskreech> Hobbsee: He still doesn't get that negative and positive is not in question here?
[06:34] <Tm_T> nixternal: Hobbsee: booring, I'm going back to "The days of our lives" ->
[06:34] <Hobbsee> Daskreech: apparently not
[06:35] <Daskreech> Jucato: they won't have any idea what an upgrade to KDE4 might mean to them
[06:35] <Jucato> well yeah
[06:35] <Jucato> hm. bbl
[06:35] <Daskreech> Hobbsee: invite him to tell us the tests and we will work with him on the article
[06:36] <Hobbsee> well, apparently there are bugs about them
[06:36] <Tm_T> ?
[06:36] <Daskreech> Tm_T: yes but of all the "desktop distros" that ship KDE as far as I know kubuntu is the only one that prefers release to release upgrades
[06:36] <Hobbsee> would be nice if he just gave up :P
[06:37] <Daskreech> Most others it's a foregone thing that you will likely just reinstall
[06:37] <Tm_T> Daskreech: other distros? there's other than Kubuntu? ;)
[06:37] <Daskreech> so the crap that can happen from a users mixed and varied interactions plus a major distro version upgrade PLUS a major libs and Desktop paradigm shift don't really come up
[06:38] <n8k99> Tm_T: it's just an urban legend, don't believe him
[06:38] <Tm_T> n8k99: I wont
[06:38] <Jucato> "There's no evidence of the claim that Compiz-Fusion is installed by default as the website claims. Although a few users point out that promise was made to Ubuntu users not Kubuntu users, I doubt many new users would have caught that from the website."
[06:38] <Daskreech> Tm_T: there is this other bigbutterfly one
[06:38] <n8k99> there is only Kubutu
[06:38] <n8k99> :P
[06:38] <Jucato> which website is he referring to?
[06:38] <Tm_T> Jucato: no idea, maybe his?
[06:39] <n8k99> http://shawnpeterman.com
[06:39] <Jucato> "Overall rating: NSNU (Not Suitable for New Users) especially those using wifi." -- right.... my laptop must have done some voodoo to make wifi work ootb.... wow
[06:39] <Tm_T> Jucato: I so agree
[06:39] <Daskreech> Jucato: madriva works perfectly it seems on the same kernel
[06:39] <Jucato> hm... or maybe I'm just lucky that my card is an Intel :)
[06:39] <nixternal> heck, my broadcom works out of the box now
[06:39] <nixternal> that is a miracle in of itself
[06:40] <n8k99> i think i got lucky that my laptop works at all running kubuntu, by the way his article is written
[06:40] <Jucato> nixternal: oh yes, that is a miracle... been hearing a lot of bad stuff about Linux+broadcom...
[06:40] <Daskreech> Kufailure
[06:40] <nixternal> heh
[06:40] <Jucato> more like "brainfailure"
[06:41] <Jucato> but on the other hand... hardware detection and support isn't always a 100% hit on any distro...
[06:41] <ttread> He doesn't even say what his hardware is
[06:41] <Daskreech> in anycasse he hangs out on #l.i.f.e is anyonewants to find him again
[06:42] <Jucato> (why would we? O.o)
[06:42] <Daskreech> ttread: and wont say when asked
[06:42] <Daskreech> and he tested it on 6 other machines and they all failed
[06:42] <Daskreech>  But can't reveal what those machines had either
[06:42] <n8k99> did they have wifi in them?
[06:42] <Daskreech> and can't tell us who he works for though he apparently has a back story for that
[06:43] <Jucato> what kind of a review is that? I stated my hardware and very detailed experiences when I reviews opensuse 10.2 and mandriva 2007.1..
[06:43] <Daskreech> n8k99: that's the only thing he/they test
[06:43] <ttread> can you say troll?
[06:43] <Jucato> sheesh! and I'm not even a professional writer!
[06:43] <Daskreech> If it doesn't make wifi work then the test is wrapped up and the review is done
[06:43] <n8k99> ooh ooh, i can say it! T R O L L.
[06:43] <Daskreech> So
[06:43] <Daskreech> Tm_T: I understand some people will be lost but I have a few issues with Kubuntu and KDE4
[06:44] <n8k99> hi imbrandon
[06:44] <imbrandon> heya n8k99
[06:44] <Tm_T> Daskreech: kiss me
[06:44] <Daskreech> First we will probably be one of the last distros to ship a front Desktop with KDE4 which I guess I can live with
[06:44] <n8k99> i heard what jono thinks about your mouth :P
[06:44] <Daskreech> Second is the upgrade anomaly that I mentioned earlier
[06:45] <ttread> Daskreech, why last?
[06:45] <Tm_T> n8k99: ?
[06:45] <Jucato> Daskreech: "by default"... remember we have plans to make packages... and nixternal made a promise in public about Live CD's
[06:45] <n8k99> lugradio
[06:45] <Daskreech> Jucato: that's why I can live with it
[06:45] <imbrandon> n8k99, hahaha
[06:45] <Daskreech> Jucato: Funny enough since it's unofficial we can probably play with it more than most others :)
[06:46] <Daskreech> ttread: LTS blocks KDE4 from shipping
[06:46] <imbrandon> n8k99, yea i about fell out of my chair when adam sweet said that
[06:46] <Daskreech> Fedora was all gung ho to ship with KDE4 by default first
[06:46] <Jucato> Daskreech: you could say that in a way, we are a bit at an advantage.... while we play around with live cd's and separate packages, we can watch others succeed or fail in shipping KDE4 by default ASAP :)
[06:46] <Daskreech> but essentially on the next rev all distros will ship with some form of KE4
[06:46] <n8k99> it was pretty hilarous
[06:46] <Daskreech> Jucato: exactly
[06:47] <Jucato> anyway....bbl really
[06:47] <nixternal> whoever ships KDE 4 first, will be an instant hit
[06:47] <Daskreech> but I think that also means that when we do ship by default we should have a damn solid desktop
[06:47] <ttread> Daskreech, maybe just as well, the early releases of KDE4 are bound to have some problems
[06:47] <nixternal> whoever ships KDE 4 correctly first, will last forever
[06:47] <Daskreech> nixternal: Fedora they have nothing to lose
[06:47] <imbrandon> nixternal, and a flop too
[06:47] <Jucato> Daskreech: why not make a spec for that or a wiki page.. we can discuss that more thoroughly.. probably this week
[06:47] <n8k99> nixternal: that's what i think
[06:47] <Jucato> nixternal: last forever in people's minds as a failure? hehehe
[06:47] <Jucato> bah bbl!
[06:47] <nixternal> we are going to ship KDE 4.0 on a Gutsy LiveCD
[06:48] <Daskreech> Well one thing I want and Riddell agrees as long as someone will make a script is to have a tracking repo for the life span between KDE4.0 shipping and 8.10
[06:48] <nixternal> the only problem I see, are our resources, so we will definitely need dev help to pull it out
[06:48] <nixternal> and I know we aren't lacking it here at all
[06:48] <Daskreech> that should invite devs to make Kubuntu the home platform for KDE4 dev work
[06:48] <Daskreech> Jucato: bye
[06:48] <Daskreech> Jucato: I'll probably be sleeping when you get back
[06:48] <nixternal> I am already sleeping
[06:49] <imbrandon> i'm trying to find kdrive heh
[06:49] <Daskreech> nixternal: you sleuth in your sleep?
[06:49] <nixternal> always
[06:49] <imbrandon> fskin old imac here i cant get to run x
[06:49] <Daskreech> i'm gonna start calling you nancy :)
[06:49] <nixternal> hey, that is what my dad calls me on the golf course
[06:49] <n8k99> hehe
[06:50] <nixternal> I flubbed one drive and it didn't go past the ladies tee, and now he calls me nancy
[06:50] <Daskreech> you probably shouldn't run X while fsckin imbrandon  :)
[06:50] <ttread> Daskreech, can you explain what you meant by tracking repo, what does it do?
[06:51] <Daskreech> ttread: it has regular packages that track the KDE4 svn trunk
[06:51] <Daskreech>  so that Devs can  easily stay up to date with all the libs
[06:51] <nixternal> OK, sleep time for me...I have to spend almost an entire day today putting together my elite field work that will bring down any empire that stands in my way
[06:51] <Daskreech> but those have to be pulled and built regularly which means we need a script
[06:51]  * Daskreech thinks he just found somethign for ttread  to do :)
[06:51] <ttread> Desckreech, ah, thx
[06:51] <nixternal> k'nite
[06:52] <Daskreech> night nixternal I still want to go over the pre upgrade info with you
[06:53] <Daskreech> ttread: So When KDE4.0 ships we plan to have a Cd as well. It will be unofficial
[06:53] <ttread> Daskreech, yah, I was in the session when nixternal was talking about it
[06:53] <Daskreech> I'm not sure exactly how it will all  work but we might ship a Hardy KDE4 cd as well which will be unofficial
[06:54] <Daskreech> I don't know if we have discussed yet if that would be a Kubuntised Cd or a straight KDE4 cd
[06:55] <ttread> Interesting .. do you suppose the user could have KDE3 and KDE4 sessions available at the login screen?
[06:55] <Daskreech> For the time period inbetween KDE 4.0 shipping and 8.10 if we can get a script that can reliably pull from the SVN test for stabilty and package it we can have a trailing repo so that even though we aren't officially a KDE4 distro KDE4 devs would like Kubuntu
[06:55] <Daskreech> ttread: they can do that now
[06:55] <Hobbsee> Daskreech: that would be good
[06:56] <Daskreech> now the gutsy-> Hardy period is where I think we should trash out the Upgrade process
[06:57] <Daskreech> one is because when KDE4 hits there will be a bunch of early adopters who we can canvas for help
[06:57] <Daskreech> and Ubuntu as a whole will be trying to rationalize LTS -> LTS upgrades
[06:57] <Daskreech> So they would be more willing to work with us in getting somethings ironed out
[06:58] <Daskreech> For Hardy -> Incontinent we are not likely to get any help other than "Thats a KDE issue isnt it?"
[06:59] <Daskreech> I can't make any steps in my head yet as to what 8.10 will look like since that *might* be KDE4.1 though I don't see how it won't be and then it's a whole new kettle of .. what animal are we releasing then? Ibexes?
[07:00] <ttread> Incontinent Ibexes... nice
[07:01] <Daskreech> In any case The period before the 8.10 relelase has enough problems that trashing out the upgrade should not even be on our minds we should know what we are trying to do and how we want it to be done and the problem is getting random people who have been using Kubuntu for 2 years to turn up and help :)
[07:02] <ttread> So if I follow you correctly, the script would rebuild everything for KDE4 so you'll have an instant CD
[07:02] <Daskreech> Ok that's my mindmap if anyone wants to jot it go. I'm off to bed
[07:03] <Daskreech> ttread: The tracking repo?
[07:03] <ttread> Yeah
[07:03] <Daskreech> ttread: no it would compile the packages for kde4-base kde4-devel etc
[07:03] <Daskreech> so that you can apt-get them
[07:03] <Daskreech> Like Universe or multiverse
[07:03] <ttread> Ok
[07:04] <Daskreech> but .. a new repo for the new repo :)
[07:04] <Daskreech> So a new repo will be up for KDE4
[07:04] <Daskreech> another one that tracks the SVN for KDE so the really crazy can be truly and properly borken
[07:05] <ttread> Ok, I will try to absorb all this
[07:05] <Daskreech> but if done often enough that devs can make use of it and no often enough that there is only enough time in between breaks to fix the problem so that it can break again
[07:05] <Daskreech> not
[07:05] <Daskreech> ttread: you understand repos right? :)
[07:06] <ttread> The repos that you configure for apt-get
[07:06] <Daskreech> Right
[07:06] <ttread> and Adept
[07:06] <Daskreech>  main and universe etc
[07:06] <ttread> Sure
[07:07] <Daskreech> it's just collections of packages grouped by some critera
[07:07] <Daskreech> anytime a new KDE ships kubuntu always has a repo that you can upgrade to the latest if you want
[07:07] <Daskreech> so KDE4 will be no exception
[07:08] <Daskreech> Well KDE4.0
[07:08] <Daskreech> to be more precise
[07:09] <Daskreech> So that's just status quo
[07:09] <Daskreech> ttread: have you ever ran a kubuntu+1 ?
[07:09] <ttread> Daskreech, no
[07:10] <Daskreech> ttread: ok well while you happily use feisty gutsy is being prepared and it has a CRAZY update schedule
[07:10] <ttread> I've done a bunch of testing on alpha and betas
[07:10] <ttread> Is that what you meant?
[07:11] <Daskreech> I've downloaded a set of packages and by the  time they are finished downloading and installed I have new updates
[07:11] <Daskreech>  and it's some of the same packages
[07:11] <Daskreech> ttread: yeah
[07:11] <ttread> Ok, doh!
[07:12] <Daskreech> the repo the +1 run on during testing hae crazy updates. It's the same concept just only dealing with KDE4.0 ++
[07:12] <Daskreech> which might be KDE4.0.1 or KDE 4.1
[07:12] <Daskreech> but the point is those who want to target as a development platform should very easily be able to do it from Kubuntu
[07:13] <ttread> Ok so we need a repo to bring in all the KDE4.0 libs and keep it up to date
[07:13] <Daskreech> Course it's boring to pull KDE and recompile it every week so we need a script that does it and a bunch of standard tests every ... lets say week
[07:14] <Tm_T> Daskreech: maybe not every week
[07:14] <Daskreech> so that every Monday there is brand new KDE 4.0 libs ready for all the people who are building great stuff for KDE 4.1
[07:14] <Tm_T> and not mondays =)
[07:14] <Daskreech> Tm_T: I said lets say
[07:14] <Tm_T> I know :p
[07:14] <Tm_T> monday is the break day
[07:14] <Daskreech> Tm_T: cause they don't suck enough :)
[07:14] <Tm_T> so every week or two and fridays
[07:15] <Daskreech> Right though I'm sure we will tweak it once we see how much dev is going on
[07:16] <Daskreech> and I'm thinking that between Plasma and marble we will probably be doing every week at some point anyway
[07:16] <Daskreech> and decibel right hunger_t ? :)
[07:16] <Tm_T> yeh :)
[07:17] <Daskreech> I just want Kubuntu to still be highly relevant to Cliff jumpers and sky divers during the mad rush to use KDE4 on the desktop and we are still officially  a KDE3 desktop
[07:18] <ttread> Daskreech, sounds like a wise plan
[07:18] <Daskreech> and while that is happening we are using that time to make sure that we have the best thought out KDE4 offering at the end
[07:18]  * Jucato has other "wishes" for Kubuntu right now though...
[07:18] <Daskreech> Jucato: Kget? :)
[07:18] <Jucato> could be
[07:18] <Jucato> nah
[07:18] <Daskreech> damn I shoudl be zzzZZZ ing by now
[07:18] <Jucato> me too
[07:18] <ttread> I will be in here asking for advice on how to get building this stuff
[07:18] <ttread> Thanks very much for answering my questions
[07:19] <Daskreech> Jucato: give me a bullet point list and I'll dream about them for you
[07:19] <Jucato> you'll find out soon enough
[07:19] <Daskreech> Jucato: Blog?
[07:19]  * Jucato should be zzz'ing too
[07:19] <Jucato> prolly
[07:19] <Daskreech> Jucato: well whatever it comes out of you as pastebin it somewhere so I can go through it :)
[07:20] <Jucato> sure...
[07:20] <Daskreech> Night all
[07:20]  * Daskreech waves at sweety
[07:20] <ttread> 'night
[07:20]  * Jucato prepares Daskreech's casket...
[07:20] <Daskreech> Kasket please
[07:20] <Jucato> casKet
[07:21] <Daskreech> akkeptable
[07:21] <Jucato> there's already a K. don't gEt gReedy
[07:21] <Daskreech> damn now I need to find  a R desktop
[07:23] <Daskreech> Jucato: remind me to tell you about the nautopia project
[07:24] <Jucato> hmm ok...
[07:24] <Jucato> in the meantime, I'll google
[07:24] <Daskreech> Night!!!!
[07:24] <Daskreech> ttread: thanks a lot for the interest btw
[07:25] <ttread> Daskreech, sure
[07:42] <Tm_T> nixternal: 'oi!
[07:50]  * Hobbsee echoes hate towards this assignment
[07:50] <Hobbsee> i'm sure it's supposed to be fairly simple, too.
[11:14] <hunger> The kdesu fix is still not available for download here:-(
[11:46] <Hobbsee> nixternal: with your blog, are you intending to put in a metapackage for this stuff?
[11:49] <Jucato> hm... jpatrick updated kdmtheme? didn't _StefanS_ just patched that to make it work in Gutsy?
[11:50] <jpatrick> Jucato: update was for hardy
[11:50] <Jucato> ah
[12:12] <{slacky}> hello
[12:13] <{slacky}> can someone help me with a kde application issue?
[12:13] <{slacky}> I installed Gutsy
[12:13] <{slacky}> and ksniffer with gutsy
[12:13] <{slacky}> and I see an icon overwritten by text
[12:13] <{slacky}> this doesn't happen on slackware and gentoo version
[12:14] <{slacky}> does someone installed ksniffer 0.3?
[13:28] <Jucato> hm... sundays...
[13:36] <Jucato> wb Hobbsee :)
[13:36] <Hobbsee> ty
[13:36] <Hobbsee> yay, nice kubuntu
[13:36] <Jucato> O.o
[13:36] <Jucato> you're back? :D
[13:37] <Hobbsee> at the moment
[13:37] <Jucato> oh...
[13:37] <Jucato> :(
[13:37] <Hobbsee> i cant figure this out, and gedit's being a pain.
[13:40]  * Hobbsee wonders what the penalties are for this assignment being late.
[13:40] <Jucato> deduction?
[13:40] <ScottK2> Hello Hobbsee
[13:40]  * ScottK2 made it...
[13:40] <Hobbsee> presume so
[13:41] <Jucato> hi ScottK2
[13:41] <ScottK2> Hello Jucato
[13:42] <Hobbsee> everything's mapped and typedef'd to something else, adn it all seems to go in a massive circle.
[13:45] <ScottK2> Riddell: Are you at fosscamp now?
[14:38] <Hobbsee> Jucato: you know, there's actually not that much difference between the 2, it seems ;)
[14:39] <Hobbsee> most stuff is workable, but i still need to find an rss feed reader that doesnt suck, keep building konvi, and keeping amarok installed.
[14:41] <NewBerner> hello, been using kubuntu for several versions. would like to help out
[14:43] <NewBerner> read the faq and got a launchpad account. figure i can make packages but where is the instructions?
[14:43] <Riddell> NewBerner: excellent!
[14:45] <Riddell> hmm, where is the current home of the packaging guide I wonder
[14:45] <Riddell> could be this http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/
[14:45] <Riddell> or could be this https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PackagingGuide
[14:46] <Riddell> NewBerner: what's needed at this stage in the release cycle is merging our changes with Debian's newer packages
[14:46] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/Packages/Merging
[14:52] <NewBerner> thanks - i'm getting the packages and reading the guides now
[15:04] <Riddell> NewBerner: let us know if you need any help
[15:07] <Riddell> NewBerner: kid3 looks like something that would be good to start with
[15:07] <Hobbsee> erk
[15:08] <Riddell> Hobbsee: you disagree?
[15:08] <Hobbsee> Riddell: dont know what the merge is.  previously, something like ti has been interesting
[15:08] <Hobbsee> this is scary, i'm getting too used to gnome now
[15:09] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah, no, that's fine
[15:09] <Hobbsee> Riddell: it had a different MD5sum for the last upstream version
[15:12] <NewBerner> riddell: not sure whats going on but pbuilder is doing its 'create' thing
[15:13] <Riddell> NewBerner: that'll run for a long time (depending on your bandwidth)
[15:13] <Riddell> NewBerner: but a pbuilder is only for checking you've done it right in my opinion, you can do all the main work on your normal system
[15:14] <NewBerner> Riddell: should I just kill it then?
[15:14] <Riddell> NewBerner: no, it's always useful to have pbuilder set up
[15:14] <NewBerner> Riddell: nvm its done
[15:46] <NewBerner> Riddell: building the 'hello' package as in https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PackagingGuide/Basic but get error of '
[15:47] <NewBerner> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot found eof where expected more change data or trailer at /usr/lib/dpkg/parsechangelog/debian line 171, <STDIN> line 5'
[16:00] <Riddell> NewBerner: you must have a (probably minor) problem in debian/changelog
[16:08] <NewBerner> riddell: yes, distro name wrong
[16:52] <Tm_T> doh
[16:52] <Tm_T> Zanav: hello?
[16:55] <Tm_T> any op here?
[16:56] <Riddell> Tm_T: mm?
[16:57] <Tm_T> Zanav is bot behind tor, I'm quite sure, there's many of those around freenode, they idle in random channels, whatever their purpose is, I dont think its good
[17:01] <Riddell> what's tor?
[17:02] <Tm_T> proxy
[17:02] <Tm_T> !proxy
[17:02] <Riddell> Zanav: are you a bot?
[17:02] <Ubotwo> The #ubuntu channel and related channels ban users joining from anonymous gateways like tor/silenceisdefeat/cgi:irc because the abuse:useful ratio is close to infinity:nothing -- project cloaks will let you join, otherwise you should simply not use an anonymizer.
[17:02] <Ubotwo> Attention tor users.  You may think you are anonymous, but you are not.  Please visit http://tor.unixgu.ru/ and see for yourself.   Please evaluate your need to use tor here on irc.  If you wish anonymity, Freenode offers cloaks of many different types. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
[17:02] <Tm_T> Riddell: anonym service
[17:07] <Riddell> 17:06 -!- Irssi: Channel not fully synchronized yet
[17:07] <Riddell> I can't kick
[17:25] <Tm_T> Riddell: op me :)
[17:25] <Tm_T> you keep having that issue, nasty one
[17:25] <gnomefreak> Riddell: try /cycle
[17:26] <gnomefreak> see if you re-sync channel
[17:27] <NewBerner> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
[17:27] <NewBerner> dpkg-buildpackage: source package is hello
[17:27] <NewBerner> dpkg-buildpackage: source version is 2.1.1-1
[17:27] <NewBerner> dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by Todd Hogarth <hogarthster@gmail.com>
[17:27] <NewBerner> dpkg-buildpackage: source version without epoch 2.1.1-1
[17:27] <NewBerner>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
[17:27] <NewBerner> /usr/bin/fakeroot: 166: debian/rules: Permission denied
[17:27] <NewBerner> Is this last line normal ^^^
[17:28] <gnomefreak> no
[17:28] <gnomefreak> not normally
[17:28] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: what is the command you are using?
[17:29] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: also are you in a # console or a $
[17:29] <Riddell> cycle didn't help
[17:29] <NewBerner> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot and in a $ console
[17:30] <gnomefreak> Riddell: i have to wait for nalioth to get back
[17:30] <gnomefreak> hmmmm
[17:31] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: try -rfaketroot beofre the -S
[17:31] <gnomefreak> and spell it right
[17:31] <NewBerner> following instructions here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PackagingGuide/Basic
[17:31] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: first need to find out what is causing it before the changes can be made
[17:31] <NewBerner> yeah typed it right in console but not in here
[17:32] <gnomefreak> so you did use -rfakeroot first before the -S?
[17:33] <NewBerner> gnomefreak: used this dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
[17:33] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: use dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S
[17:33] <Riddell> NewBerner: do you have fakeroot installed?
[17:33] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: this way you use fkaeroot (not real root) to build it
[17:33] <NewBerner> gnomefreak: same error
[17:34] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: did you install it
[17:34]  * gnomefreak was thinking that would have been too easy
[17:34] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: your a kde dev?
[17:34] <NewBerner> fakeroot is installed
[17:35] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: I am?
[17:35]  * Tm_T hides
[17:35] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: what are the permissions of the rules file
[17:35] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: i thought so since your cloak says it
[17:35] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: hmh, then I am :(
[17:35] <stdin> is debian/rules set +x ?
[17:35] <gnomefreak> Tm_T [i=tm_travo@kde/developer/jkekkonen
[17:35]  * gnomefreak didnt know you were ;)
[17:36] <NewBerner> we have a winner! thanks
[17:37]  * gnomefreak wonders how the permissions were changed?
[17:37] <Jucato> he's a scary kde dev...
[17:38] <Jucato> scary.. but quiet...
[17:38] <Riddell> NewBerner: I'd use "debuild" rather than dpkg-buildpackage, it has some extra checks and more importantly is quicker to type :)
[17:39] <NewBerner> riddell: trying to stick to the docs as im a total newb
[17:39]  * gnomefreak wonders what are the "requirments" for becoming a kde dev
[17:39] <Riddell> NewBerner: fix the docs! :)
[17:39] <Riddell> gnomefreak: writing KDE code
[17:40] <gnomefreak> Riddell: i assumed that. im just finding out Tm_T is a dev kind of suprised me a bit
[17:40]  * gnomefreak tries not to code
[17:41] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: hows that surprising?
[17:42] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: i didnt think you coded at all
[17:42]  * gnomefreak bows to Tm_T 
[17:42] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: coding? whats that?
[17:43] <gnomefreak> ok i grabbed nalioth
[17:43] <gnomefreak> Tm_T: ;)
[17:44] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: I have written only few lines of c++ to kde
[17:44] <gnomefreak> oh
[17:44] <Tm_T> but moment off ->
[17:47] <gnomefreak> Riddell: not 100% sure but from what i gather from nalioth "13:45 <nalioth> it has everything to do with data synchronization"
[17:51] <Riddell> shrug, last time I had to restart irssi
[17:55] <NewBerner> E: hello source: outdated-autotools-helper-file config.guess 2002-03-20
[17:55] <NewBerner> N:
[17:55] <NewBerner> N:   The referenced file has a time stamp older than year 2004 and the
[17:55] <NewBerner> N:   package does not build-depend on autotools-dev or automake and
[17:55] <NewBerner> N:   therefore apparently does not update it. This usually means that the
[17:55] <NewBerner> N:   source package will not work correctly on all currently released
[17:55] <NewBerner> N:   architectures.
[17:55] <NewBerner> N:
[17:55] <NewBerner> E: hello source: outdated-autotools-helper-file config.sub 2002-03-07
[17:55] <NewBerner> How to address this problem?
[17:58] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: make sure date and time is right in changelog entry and than see if you still get hte depends warnings
[17:58] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: better yet paste the control file to pastebin
[18:00] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: im just taking a guess since im not building that app but if autotools-dev and/or automake isnt in the build-deps they should be or vice versa
[18:03] <stdin> I think that's referring to the timestamp on the config.guess/sub files in the source
[18:04] <NewBerner> gnomefreak: do not know about pastebin
[18:05] <stdin> !paste
[18:05] <Ubotwo> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[18:05] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org is pastebin
[18:06] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: you might want to look in that file in the source to see what the time stamp is (i didnt know hello had that file TBH
[18:07] <NewBerner> gnomefreak: control http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42484/plain/
[18:08] <gnomefreak> NewBerner: is that the full control file?
[18:08] <NewBerner> gnomefreak: yep as suggested by the docs
[18:08] <gnomefreak> it doesnt have build-deps outside of build-essential
[18:09] <gnomefreak> asssuming build-essential doesnt need to be named as build-dep still
[18:09] <gnomefreak> !info sunbird
[18:09] <gnomefreak> ok wth
[18:14] <stdin> NewBerner: try running "touch config.guess config.sub" from the top of the source
[18:19] <NewBerner> stdin: lintian still reports same error
[18:20] <stdin> hmm
[18:23] <NewBerner> guess i'll try it the Debhelper way
[18:47] <NewBerner> debhelper much easier and actually worked this time
[18:48] <stdin> it's normally a lot easier yeah
[19:06] <fdoving> hmm.. the 'empty trash bin' menu item on the trash applet is acting strangely.
[19:07] <fdoving> most of the time it's grayed out, even if the trash contains items.
[19:11] <NewBerner> enough for today - resume later in the week. thanks for the help
[19:15] <lz1gjd> where can i find some tutorial how to get new ati driver compiz-fusion on kubuntu 7.10
[19:15] <fdoving> lz1gjd: you can try to ask in #ubuntu-effects
[19:15] <fdoving> lz1gjd: or #kubuntu might work too.
[19:16] <lz1gjd> :)
[19:17] <gnomefreak> we closed #ubuntu-effects
[19:17] <fdoving> oh.
[19:17] <gnomefreak> it forwards to #compiz-fusion iirc
[19:17] <gnomefreak> or #compiz
[20:05] <contrast83> Greets, everyone...
[20:06] <jpatrick> heelo contrast83!
[20:09] <contrast83> Sorry - I realize this is probably not the place to be asking such questions, but I've exhausted all other options as far as I know... I'm having some trouble applying a theme to KDM. I've already tried manually editing the files in /etc/default/kdm.d as well as /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc, with no results.
[20:09] <jpatrick> contrast83: have you installed and tried kdmtheme?
[20:10] <contrast83> Yeah, that was the first thing I tried, as that's how I've always done it. That wouldn't let me install a new theme, so I manually extracted the theme's tarball into /usr/share/apps/kdm/themes and put the new folder in the theme fields of the aforementioned files.
[20:10] <ScottK2> Riddell: Congratulations are in order I think for a 1 hour KDE4 session with no crashes today ...
[20:11] <jpatrick> contrast83: which theme?
[20:12] <contrast83> Tried a few different ones just to be sure it wasn't an issue with the theme itself, including a couple I've used in the past that have worked. It won't even let me switch to one of the themes in kde-kdm-themes.
[20:24] <Riddell> ScottK2: :)
[20:26] <gnomefreak> does anyone have uptodate kde4 PPA by chance?
[20:27] <jpatrick> gnomefreak: I think you were a gnome freak
[20:27] <jpatrick> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/+archive
[20:30] <gnomefreak> jpatrick: a bit of all DE's :)
[20:31] <gnomefreak> ty for link
[20:32] <gnomefreak> once sunbird is built ill upgrade thank you ;)
[20:33] <gnomefreak> are those hardy or gutsy?
[20:33] <jpatrick> gutsy, but it says hardy..
[20:33] <gnomefreak> the repos show to use hardy but no hardys were uploaded by the looks of it
[20:33] <gnomefreak> ah ok
[20:53] <fdoving> Riddell: around? - there are issues with translations (norwegian) when one try to use the guidance tools. everythign becomes chinese,  any hints on where to start looking?
[20:55] <uga> uhm... whatever happenned to the digikam refocus plugin
[20:55] <uga> was it removed?
[20:55] <uga> ah, nm =)
[20:59] <gnomefreak> i guess kde4 packages in hardy are latest?
[21:01] <g2g591> there is no actual hardy repo there, just use gutsy and add universe to the line
[21:01] <gnomefreak> oh universe
[21:03] <gnomefreak> still doesnt upgrade anything and that is the reason why i asked if hardys kde4 packages from gutsy are newer than those in PPA
[21:06] <g2g591> I know, thats what happens to me here also
[21:09] <Riddell> fdoving: at the translation sources, are they really in chinese?
[21:10] <gnomefreak> g2g591: that tells me the ooficial packages are newer than ~PPA
[21:11] <gnomefreak> Riddell: any suggestion on why PPA packages are lower version than whats in repos if they are newer
[21:12] <fdoving> Riddell: yeah, or some non alphanumeric chars. i'm not good at classifying what language.. hang on i'll make a shot.
[21:13] <g2g591> i know , it happens for me to, its very wierd
[21:14] <gnomefreak> not weird (either packaged wrong or out of date)
[21:14] <fdoving> Riddell: in which package should  /usr/lib/kubuntu-desktop-i18n/createdesktop.pl  be? - is it needed? - i can't find it anywhere.
[21:16] <fdoving> Riddell: http://frode.kde.no/misc/guidance-module_chinese.png
[21:16] <fdoving> Riddell: same for all guidance modules.
[21:17] <fdoving> Riddell: strange thing is some strings are correct, like "Detaljer"
[21:18] <fdoving> this issue was introduced in gutsy.
[21:18] <fdoving> to newly installed and upgraded systems.
[21:19] <Riddell> fdoving: if you look at the source of the language pack, are the strings in norwegian or chinese?
[21:20] <Riddell> that looks more like Korean (for all I know)
[21:20] <fdoving> language-pack-kde-nb sources?
[21:21] <fdoving> that was empty.
[21:22] <Riddell> add -base
[21:24] <gnomefreak> g2g591: the reason is gutsys version is 3.94.0-0ubuntu2 and PPA is 3.93
[21:25] <gnomefreak> im assuming 3.94 = beta4
[21:25] <Riddell> 3.94 is beta 3
[21:26] <Riddell> Tm_T: go kick!
[21:26] <g2g591> it looks like they have sources for 3.94 and 5
[21:26] <g2g591> see http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members/ubuntu/pool/universe/k/kde4base/
[21:26] <fdoving> Riddell: can't find no kcm_displayconfig.po in there. or any other guidance .po for that matter.
[21:26] <gnomefreak> maybe due to the flooding of PPA they havent built yet
[21:29] <Riddell> mhb: Ng said he'd get to it sometime this week
[21:29] <Riddell> you'll need to send him the theme
[21:29] <Riddell> and tell him what modules you need
[21:42] <fdoving> Riddell: yep, guidance.po is wrong in the norwegian langpacks.
[21:42] <fdoving> Riddell: nn (norwegian nynorsk) is dutch, nl which is wrong.
[21:43] <fdoving> Riddell: nb is japanese. which also is wrong.
[21:43] <Riddell> crazy
[21:43] <Riddell> fdoving: so next step is to see if that's the case in launchpad translations
[21:45] <fdoving> Riddell: how does one figure out that? - i haven't used that much. launchpad translations that is.
[21:45] <fdoving> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/guidance
[21:45] <Riddell> there's no nn or nb in guidance source packages so it must be launchpad
[21:46] <fdoving> it might not be translated?
[21:46] <fdoving> could that be the reason it got some random translation?
[21:46] <fdoving> (it's probably not random though)
[21:47] <Riddell> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/kde-guidance/+pots/guidance/nb/+translate
[21:47] <Riddell> Translated by Yukiko Bando on 2007-08-17
[21:47] <Riddell> so, hmm
[21:47] <Riddell> e-mail him and ask what's going on
[21:47] <fdoving> so it's the import?
[21:48] <Riddell> it's him translating it into japanese
[21:48] <fdoving> nice.
[21:48] <Riddell> if he doesn't respond e-mail launchpad-users
[21:49] <fdoving> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ybando/
[21:49] <fdoving> Yukiko Bando does not use Launchpad. This page was created on 2005-08-04 when importing the Japanese (ja) translation of scim-chinese in Ubuntu Breezy package "scim-chinese".
[21:49] <fdoving> so it's the import.
[21:49] <fdoving> from somewhere.
[21:49] <Riddell> err, weird
[21:50] <Riddell> e-mail launchpad users I guess
[21:50] <Riddell> or maybe there's a way to report a bug on rosetta
[22:09]  * Daskreech waves. Morning all
[22:10] <yuriy> Riddell: still at the hotel? i think i left my glasses on the table where we were
[22:12] <Riddell> yuriy: yes, they're here
[22:12] <Riddell> at least there's some glasses here
[22:12] <Riddell> and nobody is claiming them
[22:12] <yuriy> well, probably mine then, thanks. i guess i will be stopping by UDS after all
[22:13] <Riddell> I can keep them in my room
[22:14] <yuriy> ok
[22:22] <nixternal> how goes it today you kuntuballahs
[22:23] <imbrandon> man one of these days we need to make a "nixternal" dictionary for all the new words
[22:23] <imbrandon> heh
[22:23] <nixternal> hehe
[22:23] <nixternal> that is what you get when you watch the prez. on tv...you eventually learn how to make up your own words and make them mean whatever you want
[22:24] <fdoving> kdict-nixternal-0.1 :)
[22:24] <imbrandon> lol
[22:24] <nixternal> I will get that packaged asap!
[22:24] <fdoving> set up your own dict server instead :)
[22:24] <nixternal> it will be way better than Eric Raymonds attempt at a dictionary
[22:24] <imbrandon> esr has a dictionary ?
[22:26] <nixternal> he did the hackers dictionary I thought
[22:29] <imbrandon> no idea
[22:32] <Riddell> he did
[22:33] <Riddell> and added some terms he made up himself
[22:33] <Riddell> although I quite enjoyed it
[22:35] <nixternal> ya, there were some great terms in there
[22:39] <imbrandon> hrm has anyone here done the simple hello world type qyoto apps yet ?
[22:40] <imbrandon> i dont seem to have a qyoto.dll  or qyoto.so on the system for gmcs to use
[22:40] <imbrandon> eg gmcs -r:pathtoqyoto.dll/qyoto.dll -out:yourprogram.exe yourprogram.cs
[22:41] <nixternal> I haven't, that's for sure...but if you need Jambi experience...i am becoming a pro at that :)
[22:42] <imbrandon> and yes i have it installed
[22:42] <imbrandon> brandon@hood:~/files/dev/qyoto$ dpkg -l|grep qyoto
[22:42] <imbrandon> ii  libqyoto1.0-cil                            1.0.0-0ubuntu1                            Qt 4 bindings for Mono C# CLI
[22:42] <imbrandon> ii  qyoto-dev-tools                            1.0.0-0ubuntu1                            Development tools for Qt 4 bindings for Mono
[22:42] <imbrandon> ii  qyoto-examples                             1.0.0-0ubuntu1                            Development tools for Qt 4 bindings for Mono
[22:42] <imbrandon> well i'm half temped to go back to php-qt but i love my c#
[22:43] <imbrandon> the only thing i can find is /usr/lib/libqyoto.so
[22:43] <imbrandon> but thats not it
[23:03] <Daskreech> is there anyway to have a dictionary app that looks up things locally?