[00:16] <Kopfgeldjaeger> n8...
[01:29] <mbt> Is there a way to see if a package that is in Debian will make its way into Ubuntu?
[01:31] <persia> mbt: Not exactly.  If a package is in Debian unstable, it will automatically make it's way into the Ubuntu Development release between the archive open and DebianImportFreeze, unless it is on the sync blacklist.
[01:31] <mbt> persia: Thanks... is that list available onlin?
[01:31] <mbt> *online?
[01:32] <persia> mbt: You can check the associated dates from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule, and the blacklist from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/sync-blacklist.txt
[01:32] <mbt> Sweet, thank you :)
[01:33] <persia> mbt: In addition, some packages may be imported from Debian manually anytime until FeatureFreeze, although that is not guaranteed.  Packages that are missed are usually brought in after the archive for the next release opens.
[01:34] <mbt> Okay.  Was just curious, because I found a useful package and it's not in Ubuntu yet, but it is in Debian unstable.  I suppose that means that it doesn't need a Launchpad bug filed to ask for it to be brought in, since it is not listed on the blacklist, correct?
[01:35] <crimsun_> (correct.)
[01:35] <mbt> Alright.  Thanks!
[01:36] <persia> mbt: Correct.  If it were after DebianImportFreeze, and the new package contained some feature considered important for the next release, one would file a wishlist bug.  In most cases, it's best to let the syncs happen without intervention.
[01:47] <slangasek> lifeless: so, you seem to be the opensync maintainer... were you in pitti's opensync BoF? :)
[01:47] <alex-weej> asac: hey
[01:47] <alex-weej> up?
[01:53] <slangasek> lifeless: more to the point, I want opensync-motosync working and it doesn't seem compatible with the version of opensync in Debian/Ubuntu
[01:55] <TheMuso> slangasek: I've been thinking of updating that opensync stack for hardy.
[01:55] <TheMuso> As I ran into a similar problem with my new Nokia 5700 phone.
[01:56] <TheMuso> Hopefully it can be done in Debian.
[01:56] <TheMuso> And we only need sync.
[02:03] <Keybuk> slangasek: I do wish you'd let me *fix* broken graphs before you link to them in major announcements
[02:04] <LaserJock> Keybuk: you know if we're going to have VoIP this UDS?
[02:05] <Keybuk> I believe we are
[02:05] <stgraber> argh, internet is just so slow... who is downloading ? :)
[02:06] <Keybuk> PYTHON SUCKS
[02:06]  * Keybuk goes back to Perl
[02:06] <Keybuk> no, wait, I'm not that desperate
[02:06] <TheMuso> lol
[02:07] <Keybuk> cjwatson_: you have to sync-source on multiverse too, ya know :p
[02:13] <lifeless> slangasek: I wasn't; I was in a meeting
[02:36] <coffeedude> evening
[02:48] <KingPython> i upgraded to gutsi,but when i tried to install a package from source code ,it allways gave me this message: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42420/
[02:49] <jdong> KingPython: this is a developer channel, not a support channel
[02:50] <KingPython> but from support channel ,they said me you must to ask this question to developer chanel
[02:51] <jdong> KingPython: who told you that?
[02:51] <KingPython> his nickname tekteen
[02:52] <jdong> KingPython: I don't think he meant that; I think he was trying to join #ubuntu-devel and accidentally typed it into the channel :)
[02:52] <KingPython> none help me,so how can i learn solve of this problem??
[02:53] <jdong> KingPython: wait for the netsplit to end and everyone to rejoin and you might get a better answer; at any rate this channel is not appropriate for receiving support
[02:53] <KingPython> jdong: is this a hard qustion?
[02:54] <jdong> KingPython: your system shows external modifications... i686-pc-linux-gnulibc1 is not normal
[02:54] <KingPython> jdong: what can i do?
[02:55] <slangasek> it's a question that didn't make it to some of us across the netsplit, anyway
[02:55] <jdong> slangasek: ./configure on his gutsy thinks it should be building against i686-pc-linux-gnulibc1
[02:55] <slangasek> er... ok then :)
[02:55] <jdong> apart from the nostalgia, I don't know what is wrong :)
[02:56] <slangasek> could be a broken config.guess/config.sub, too
[02:56] <TheMuso> c
[02:56] <Keybuk> KingPython: what does /usr/share/misc/config.guess say?
[02:56] <Keybuk> (note: may have to install autotools-dev)
[02:56] <KingPython> ok wa
[02:56] <KingPython> t
[02:57] <slangasek> lifeless: I think I'm going to sit here and hack on opensync for a bit, I want to get opensync-motosync up and running locally while I have access to bluetooth people :)
[02:57] <KingPython> Keybuk: i installed it now,but it isnt working
[02:57] <Keybuk> "isn't working" ?
[02:58] <KingPython> yes that isnt solve my problem
[02:58] <Keybuk> ?
[02:59] <KingPython> Keybuk:/usr/share/misc/config.gues said to me: i686-pc-linux-gnulibc1
[02:59] <DShepherd> does anyone know when the gnome 2.20.1 release is going to make it into the ubuntu repos?
[02:59] <jdong> DShepherd: I already see a lot of it in gutsy-updates...
[03:00]  * DShepherd checks to see if he has the gutsy-updates repos
[03:01] <Keybuk> KingPython: wow
[03:01] <slangasek> lifeless: so if you'd like to make use of any of that in an updated package for sid/hardy, that'd be keen
[03:01] <slangasek> KingPython: in that case, you've done something very strange indeed to your system
[03:01] <Keybuk> KingPython: that sounds like you've overwritten your libc with something very very wrong
[03:01] <Keybuk> at this point, I would recommend nothing less than a reinstall
[03:01] <KingPython> no i didnt work on it
[03:02] <KingPython> but i can reinstall libc
[03:02] <slangasek> that requires __GLIBC__ to be defined in <features.h>, but not set to a value >= 2; or for __ELF__ to not be set
[03:02] <Keybuk> given that you've managed to do something as drastic as that
[03:02] <slangasek> do you have a features.h in your local directory where you're running these commands?
[03:02] <Keybuk> there's no telling what else is wrong
[03:02] <DShepherd> jdong, i have the gutsy-updates repo. i havent seen any gnome 2.20.1 releases for any app
[03:02] <DShepherd> jdong, is there anthoer repository i need?
[03:03] <jdong> [jdong@jdong:tmp/Starcraft]$ apt-cache policy file-roller         (10-27 22:59)
[03:03] <KingPython> yes i have this file
[03:03] <jdong>  *** 2.20.1-0ubuntu1 0
[03:03] <jdong> DShepherd: sorry, gutsy-proposed...
[03:03] <slangasek> KingPython: ah.  that's the problem then
[03:03] <jdong> DShepherd: it's not an official final update yet
[03:03] <DShepherd> jdong, i have the gutsy-updates repo. i havent seen any gnome 2.20.1 releases for any app
[03:03] <jdong> DShepherd: it's in testing (proposed) status
[03:03] <DShepherd> jdong, is there another repository i need?
[03:03] <slangasek> KingPython: features.h in your current directory seems to be conflicting with the system header, and causing config.guess to misdetect
[03:03] <KingPython> yes
[03:03] <slangasek> that's an awesome error condition \o/
[03:04] <jdong> slangasek: lol, indeed. that's special
[03:04] <KingPython> what can i do now?
[03:04] <DShepherd> jdong, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42421/ -- my source list
[03:04] <slangasek> KingPython: name features.h to something saner that doesn't conflict with a well-known system header. :)
[03:04] <jdong> DShepherd: you can add the gutsy-proposed repo to get these updates, but be advised it is a TESTING repository and may still contain bugs
[03:04] <Keybuk> slangasek: that doesn't occur for me
[03:04] <DShepherd> jdong, ok. I will wait
[03:04] <jdong> DShepherd: unless there's a specific reason why you must have 2.20.1 now, I'd recommend just to wait
[03:04] <DShepherd> jdong, thanks...
[03:05] <DShepherd> jdong, no.. no reason. i will wait
[03:05] <Keybuk> slangasek: the only way I can make that happen is with CC="gcc -I."
[03:05] <DShepherd> jdong, thanks for the information though I appreciate it
[03:05] <jdong> absolutely welcome
[03:06] <slangasek> Keybuk: perhaps he's also missing libc6-dev?
[03:06] <slangasek> Keybuk: do you have libc6-dev installed?
[03:06] <slangasek> sorry
[03:06] <slangasek> KingPython: do you have libc6-dev installed?
[03:06] <KingPython> slangasek: i can install lib6c-dev
[03:06] <Keybuk> WHY is that not a dependency of gcc ?!
[03:07] <slangasek> KingPython: right.  the combination of having ./features.h, and not having libc6-dev, would explain this behavior
[03:07] <slangasek> Keybuk: because gcc works just fine for compiling kernel and bootloader code? :)
[03:07] <KingPython> ubuntu isnt find this package
[03:07] <Keybuk> slangasek: that's a Debian reasoning :)
[03:07] <Keybuk> "it's not a *dependency*"
[03:07] <slangasek> why yes, thanks for noticing
[03:08] <Keybuk> "If I think very hard I can invent a mythical use case for why somebody who clearly isn't in their right mind to begin with might want one package and not the other"
[03:09] <Keybuk> making that not a dependency assumes that there is somebody out there who *only* compiles boot loaders
[03:09] <Keybuk> and never, ever compiles anything else on their machine
[03:10] <KingPython> and when i write gcc -V </dev/null >&5,it says to me
[03:11] <KingPython> bash: 5: Bad file descriptor
[03:11] <KingPython> but i read this in config.log
[03:11] <slangasek> KingPython: libc6-dev, not lib6c-dev; perhaps that transcription error made it to your install attempt?
[03:11] <KingPython> yes it can be true
[03:12] <jdong> transcription error.... *brings back memory of last week's bio exam*
[03:13] <KingPython> oops a new error :)
[03:13] <KingPython> error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
[03:13] <compbrai1> Is there a standard python library for processing preseeds/dealing with debconf crap?
[03:13] <KingPython> i firtsly see this error
[03:13] <liw> KingPython, do you have the "build-essential" package installed?
[03:13] <KingPython> hmm
[03:14] <KingPython> no but now i am isntalling
[03:14] <KingPython> and very thanks for help me
[03:15] <KingPython> and a new error again :checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your installation and add the correct paths!
[03:16] <KingPython> source code compilation very hard in ubuntu
[03:16] <KingPython> :(
[03:17] <Keybuk> compiling anything from source requires the appropriate development libraries
[03:17] <Keybuk> this is true of any distribution
[03:17] <KingPython> yes i know but
[03:17] <Keybuk> the package will tell you what its dependencies are
[03:17] <Keybuk> you need the "-dev" versions of the appropriate packages
[03:18] <KingPython> why when install ubuntu ,that are came easy
[03:18] <Keybuk> ?
[03:18] <KingPython> yes i know but what is mean of x error?
[03:18] <slangasek> but surely gcc should depend on x-dev ;-)
[03:18] <KingPython> hehehehhe
[03:18] <KingPython> i feel like stupid
[03:18] <slangasek> KingPython: if you install xorg-dev that will give you the main set of X includes
[03:19] <KingPython> ok i will try
[03:19] <KingPython> its near 34 mb
[03:19] <KingPython> dont problem
[03:23] <KingPython> ok i downloaded ~80 mb but altought i didnt installed anything,but if i use synapthic i will install this package about ~4 mb ,so how can it do this?
[03:23] <KingPython> *synaptic
[03:24] <KingPython> so synaptic more clever than me :)
[03:26] <KingPython> ok thanx for everything ,i installed it from synaptic and it takes 345 kb
[03:45] <OpenSorce> any new SRU since for 7.10?
[03:46] <OpenSorce> ok, guess not...thanks
[04:05]  * Keybuk stares at gdb
[04:05] <OpenSorce> I know you guys are (quite understandably) but can anyone tell me if there is an SRU in the near future, the website doesn't say
[04:05] <OpenSorce> *are (quite understandably) busy
[04:07] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: there are plenty.  you didnt say what about.
[04:07] <persia> OpenSorce: The best way to check the status of updates is to check the archive.  There are usually updates in queue.  If you are experiencing a specific issue, you might do well to check the bug tracker to see the progress on that issue.
[04:07] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: if you read the UWN, you will see a whole lot of them.
[04:08] <OpenSorce> Thank you.....and my next question, will these updates be part of the downloadable 7.10 iso or something a user will have to add on post install?
[04:08] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: the latter.
[04:09] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, so anything broken in 7.10....such as wifi....will still be broken until the user updates
[04:09] <Hobbsee> theoretically
[04:09] <Hobbsee> assuming it's not pebkac error - in which case, an update probably wont fix it anyway
[04:10] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, excellent...you just saved me 3 days work, thank you :-)
[04:11] <Hobbsee> no problem
[04:11] <OpenSorce> persia, thank you for your help as well
[04:14] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, would you find this statement accurate: "Further questioning of developers gave me the following information. The wifi issues may be resolved in future Stable Release Updates, however the downloadable iso of Ubuntu will still have the issues until the user can connect to the internet and download the update. Which a person who relies on wifi for internet cannot do."
[04:15] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: you're writing for a magazine?
[04:15] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, I am a journalist, yes
[04:15] <mneptok> what issues?
[04:16] <OpenSorce> mneptok, 6 out of 6 machines that we tested with various wifi adaptors could not be set up by new users.
[04:16] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: can you define which wifi chipsets?
[04:17]  * Hobbsee suspects they were mostyl broadcom, or required ndiswrapper to use.
[04:17] <mneptok> PCI? PCI-E? Cardbus? ExpressCard? USB dongle (shudder)?
[04:17] <OpenSorce> Guys, I asked our IT guy to submit bug reports for them which I believe he has done
[04:18] <Hobbsee> bug #'s?
[04:18] <Hobbsee> there are a fair few, and most of them dont have enough information to track down the problem.
[04:18] <Hobbsee> although, granted, it's a good question of how broadcom firmware is suppsoed to be downloaded, when you have no wifi :P
[04:18] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, no clue...not my area....I just review distros for new user fitness
[04:19] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: it would be helpful if you could chase your guys, and find them.  in current form, your statement is not fair.
[04:19] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, but it is accurate, correct?
[04:19] <Hobbsee> not really.
[04:19] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, okay.....what's part is inaccurate?
[04:20] <persia> OpenSorce: Or, possibly, publish the specific devices with which it didn't work.  Alternately, it would be interesting to know if the difficulty was with the configuration or the support.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: you have an implicit assumption in your statement there that all drivers are free, and that they can all be included on the cd - and it's a bug that they arent.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: if you have any broadcom card, and therefore no wifi, we can never fix that - until broadcom decide to open source their drivers.
[04:20] <mneptok> OpenSorce: your statement sounds as if there are known bugs we can fix. that is not the case.
[04:20] <OpenSorce> persia, I'm not publishing the 6 machine test results in this article I feel it's too detrimental to the distro
[04:21] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: would be helpful if you gave them to us - perhaps so we can actually push said SRU's.
[04:21] <OpenSorce> mneptok, with all due respect, other distros handle it flawlessly
[04:21] <mneptok> OpenSorce: if the vendor does not provide hardware information, or an open driver, there's is precious little anyone at any distro, anywhere, anytime, can do about it
[04:21] <persia> OpenSorce: Hrm.  I can't speak for everyone, but I'd prefer a specific list of things that didn't work to a general statement as you've quoted above.
[04:21] <mneptok> OpenSorce: the exact same hardware?
[04:21] <LaserJock> OpenSorce: hi again :-)
[04:21] <Hobbsee> mneptok: do some distros actually distribute the broadcom stuff illegally?
[04:21] <Hobbsee> mneptok: actually, stuff like suse probably does - in their commercial block
[04:22] <OpenSorce> LaserJock, hi! I came to get the status of the SRUs you mentioned and seem to be drawn into another discussion again :-)
[04:22] <mneptok> Hobbsee: could be. i don't have a SuSE entitlement.
[04:22] <LaserJock> OpenSorce: well, we like to fix things
[04:23] <LaserJock> OpenSorce: and help as many users as we can
[04:23] <Hobbsee> but cant wave the magic wand to fix them :)
[04:23] <mneptok> Hobbsee: i doubt Novell is stupid enough to put the ndiswrapper gun to their support head. fwcutter ... maybe ...
[04:23] <OpenSorce> mneptok, I am unsure if we are dealing with broadcom chips or not.....I do know that we tried the same test with another distro that setup wifi on the machine with little or no user action
[04:23] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: which was the other distro?
[04:23] <OpenSorce> s/machine/machines
[04:23] <Hobbsee> mneptok: yes, quite possibly.
[04:23] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, Mandriva 2008.0
[04:24] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: do they also isntall mp3 codecs by default, etc?
[04:24] <mneptok> Hobbsee: they'd have to do some fancy detection and auto-blob-grab.
[04:24] <Hobbsee> mneptok: which is hard, considering that most of them are hidden on cds :)
[04:24] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, mp3s played out of the box, so i would assume so, yes
[04:24]  * mneptok speaks as if intimately familiar with fwcutter. heh.
[04:24] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: then that's why
[04:24] <Fujitsu> mneptok: We have single-click fwcutting now, don't we?
[04:24] <mneptok> Fujitsu: see last
[04:25] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: ubuntu chooses to not include non-free components by default, excluding certain drivers for wifi cards.
[04:25] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: which are all that are allowed to be redistributed in binary form.
[04:25] <mneptok> nicaffeine. biab.
[04:25] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: note that you're just assuming the driver for the wireless cards was non-free
[04:25] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: granted.  which is why i keep asking for the bug # :)
[04:25] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, that's understandable....but it does make *nbuntu a less than perfect choice for new users
[04:25] <Keybuk> OpenSorce may have found a completely legitimate problem
[04:26] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: indeed.  but for the majority of users, it seems to be the "i've bought non-free hardware, and it dont work"
[04:26] <Keybuk> although if it were six different laptops, I would be surprised
[04:26] <Keybuk> since our test coverage would have revealed problems
[04:27] <Hobbsee> exactly
[04:27] <OpenSorce> Keybuk, on the test system that we use it has an older D-Link DWL-120+ usb wifi adaptors
[04:27] <Keybuk> and something as serious as wide-spread wireless non-functioning would have definitely halted the release
[04:27] <OpenSorce> Kubuntu thinks it's a wired device
[04:27] <Keybuk> OpenSorce: have you tried the same device with Ubuntu?
[04:28] <Hobbsee> i wonder if that's a mangler thing
[04:28] <Hobbsee> that's at least been detected.
[04:28] <OpenSorce> Keybuk, no I only review distros that use KDE as the primary wm
[04:28] <Keybuk> OpenSorce: did you use the same wireless device for all six laptops?
[04:28] <OpenSorce> Keybuk, no
[04:28] <OpenSorce> Keybuk, and they weren't all laptops
[04:28] <Keybuk> what were the wireless devices in the other laptops?
[04:29] <Hobbsee> oh, interesting.  mandriva has a free adn a non-free version now too
[04:29] <OpenSorce> Keybuk, I'm not sure.....our IT supposedly filed bug reports for each
[04:31] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, we debated over whether or not we should review only free distros but in the end we determined that a brand new user neither knows no cares about the difference
[04:32] <OpenSorce> If I could make one recommendation it would be that *buntu include ndiswrapper in Live CD and generic install
[04:32] <Hobbsee> ndiswrapper is on the live cd
[04:33] <Hobbsee> that wont help you if you don't have the windows drivers, of course
[04:33] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, it's not found from the CLI in live cd mode....path issue?
[04:33] <Hobbsee> and most people dont even seem to use ndiswrapper, so i'm unsure of the point of using it by default
[04:33] <LaserJock> Ubuntu has been a blessing for me when it comes to wifi
[04:33] <LaserJock> it's the only distro that will work out-of-the-box
[04:33] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, in the Mandriva tests our users just popped in the driver disks when the system asked and it set it up
[04:34] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: on the cd, but not installed.
[04:34] <Hobbsee> right
[04:34] <OpenSorce> seems like a simple thing really
[04:35] <OpenSorce> From what I gathered it gives a choice of using a native driver if one is present and also offers the ndiswrapper version in if it does not work
[04:35] <OpenSorce> LaserJock, I wish mine had....it would have simply been another review
[04:35] <Hobbsee> where the latter is provided by a user driver disk, i take it
[04:36] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, yes it asks for the driver cd.....very much like windows I would imagine
[04:36] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: on the cd, but nto installed.  http://releases.ubuntu.com/gutsy/ubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.list
[04:39] <OpenSorce> Ok, well sent the last revision of the Kubuntu article to my boss and posted a copy on one of my websites. Thanks for your help again guys. Sorry I don't more information about the hardware that failed :-(
[04:48] <LaserJock> OpenSorce: mind giving use a link?
[04:48] <LaserJock> *us
[04:48] <OpenSorce> LaserJock, sure: http://bigcatlinux.com/kufailure.html
[04:48] <OpenSorce> tear it apart :-)
[04:49] <OpenSorce> and before anyone asks, the system specs are listed in the final printing
[04:52]  * Fujitsu is confused.
[04:52] <Fujitsu> Why is that article on another distribution's site?
[04:52] <OpenSorce> Fujitsu, it's one of mine.....just a temporary place to put it until priniting
[04:53] <OpenSorce> we email the distro as a courtesy to let them see the articles prior to general release
[04:55] <OpenSorce> I'm beginning to think that we should stay away from reviewing "free" distributions altogether though.....it just isn't fair to rate them with the same criteria as non-free
[04:55] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: i love the fact that youv'e mentioned *no* hardwrae specs in there at all
[04:56] <Hobbsee> FYI, hardware keys work for almost everyone.
[04:56] <OpenSorce> and before anyone asks, the system specs are listed in the final printing
[04:56]  * Hobbsee comes to the conclusion that you guys arent running a fair test
[04:57] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, distros that fal generallly draw that conclusion it seems
[04:57]  * Hobbsee also likes the incorrect grammar, and thought a reporter would have correct grammar, in order that the work is taken seriously.
[04:57] <OpenSorce> *fail
[04:57] <Hobbsee> can i ask *where* this is being published?
[04:57] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, this is a "pre-edit" copy
[04:57] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, I am not allowed to say
[04:57] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: also, nowhere does it state that kubuntu does Compiz-Fusion by default.  we actively say that they cant.
[04:57] <Hobbsee> s/cant/dont/
[04:58] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: you're going on ubuntu features, and expecting them to show up in kubuntu - and blasting them when they dont..  this is unfair.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> if ti looked identical to dapper, you clearly need your eyes checked - GUI looked quite different, colour-wise, at least.
[04:59] <OpenSorce> Ubuntu.com says that compiz-fusion is installed by default.... kubuntu.com doesn't mention it at all....it's easy for a new person to assume that it would be the same on either version
[04:59] <Hobbsee> kubuntu doesnt mention it because it's not there.
[04:59] <Hobbsee> well, kubuntu gets a blasting there, and pieces of it are relevant.
[05:00] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, ok....but a new user still might expect that Kubuntu would be the same as Ubuntu with KDE instead of Gnome
[05:00] <Hobbsee> a lot of it isnt, and there's a fair few jumps of incorrect things there.
[05:00] <Hobbsee> and i could say something about the professional style, or lack of it.
[05:00] <Hobbsee> but hey, you didnt ask for a review of your review, did you?  :)
[05:00] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, we do it from a new user perspective....not what I see but what I new user would see....
[05:01] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, you may as well attack my writing style....it's the last thing
[05:01] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: but, you are predisposed to hate it, and that comes thru in your writing.
[05:01] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, that isn't true....but I think a new user would hate it
[05:02] <Hobbsee> kubuntu could do with a lot more work - people know that.  i think your review is inaccurate, though.
[05:02] <Fujitsu> And - why Kubuntu?
[05:02] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they only want to do kde-based distros.
[05:02] <OpenSorce> Fujitsu, what he said
[05:02]  * nixternal prints it out and takes it to the john
[05:02] <Hobbsee> she.
[05:03] <OpenSorce> pardon
[05:03] <Hobbsee> it's a pity that you dont review the best, no matter waht the DE is.
[05:04]  * Hobbsee wonders why a whole lot of new users seem *not* to hate it, then.
[05:04] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, ok.....you guys tell me that Ubuntu would be a better choice for new users than Kubuntu.....that the wifi issues would be resolved in that version....I will do my best to get my boss to let me review it
[05:04] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: some of them will be, sure.
[05:05] <OpenSorce> ok, anyone else?
[05:05] <Hobbsee> but, for the rest, see above.
[05:05] <nixternal> KutoiletPaper
[05:05] <nixternal> ya, I said it
[05:05] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, I dare say that you may not have as much contact with new users as our research department does
[05:05] <OpenSorce> nixternal, haha!!
[05:06] <Hobbsee> perhaps.
[05:06] <OpenSorce> nixternal, wonder if i can get away with changing the article name to that
[05:06] <nixternal> I have to admit though, I can't make sense of the article
[05:06] <Hobbsee> i've only seen what type your group is by your conduct, and your article.
[05:06]  * Hobbsee has a fair idea of what goes on in #kubuntu
[05:06] <nixternal> OpenSorce: I don't care what you change it to, it should be title "My Biased Opinion - W/O a Proper Premise"
[05:07] <OpenSorce> nixternal, I didn't list my personal feelings because they are irrelevant to new users
[05:08] <Hobbsee> yet they show in your work.
[05:08] <Fujitsu> OpenSorce: Were the six machines you tested on, perchance, the same model?
[05:08] <OpenSorce> personally, I like Ubuntu.....I like that it takes the old stale Debian distro puts new software in it and makes it a true modern distro....for even slightly experienced users I recommend it
[05:08] <Fujitsu> It's very unlikely that they'd all have no multimedia keys, need restricted drivers, all have broken restricted drivers, and all have broken wireless..
[05:09] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: unless they're extremely esoteric, and use non-sane defaults.
[05:09] <OpenSorce> Fujitsu, I didn't state the results of any test except the test on the "test" machine in that article
[05:09] <Hobbsee> that doesnt answer the quesiton
[05:09] <nixternal> heh, first time I ever looked at BigCat Linux..it looks familiar though, it has that Steve Jobs feel to it :p
[05:10] <OpenSorce> Fujitsu, and we didn't do full reviews on the other machines....LaserJock suggested we try other machines to see if the wifi problem was isolated so we did
[05:10] <Daskreech> Hobbsee: Machine have hardware "defaults"?
[05:10] <Hobbsee> oh, i see.
[05:10] <OpenSorce> nixternal, I'm not here to discuss BCL
[05:10] <Hobbsee> Daskreech: sure.  most machines will give the same keycode for crt/lcd switch.
[05:11] <Daskreech> ah
[05:12] <OpenSorce> Fujitsu, and since we didn't do complete tests on the other machines I made no mention of the 6 machine test in the article
[05:12] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: so you picked the worst one?
[05:12] <Hobbsee> sounds like malicious use of the "facts" to me.
[05:12] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, well considering wifi didn't work on any, I hardly see how that's true
[05:12] <Hobbsee> OTOH, i could write a review saying that kubuntu works perfectly on my machine.
[05:12] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: you havent told us what machiens they were.  read above.
[05:12] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, then you should
[05:12] <Hobbsee> and the other machines i tested.
[05:13] <Hobbsee> but, i've already seen a very good review from a guy named Brian Delacey, published in a good magazine, and preferred to give him a quote.
[05:13] <Hobbsee> so don't see the point.
[05:13] <Hobbsee> besides, your review looks like a blog post.  i'd prefer to contribute to actual, proper reviews.  *shrug*
[05:14] <Daskreech> OpenSorce: I'm sorry I wasn't here. What are you asking?
[05:14] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, Brian does very good work.....I wish I could write as well as he does
[05:15] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: learn it :)
[05:15]  * nixternal feels a blog post coming on...but pulls the plug on the server to prevent it!
[05:15] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: what is your affiliation to the site that it's on?
[05:15] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, why does that matter?
[05:15] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: because it makes you biased against non-mandriva distributions, as you participate in a mandriva-spinoff.
[05:16] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: and to not put in a disclaimer about that will make your work less credible.
[05:16] <Hobbsee> did you not study report writing in school?
[05:16] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, ok....Big Cat Linux is a sort of sub-distro I am basing on Mandriva....it is NOT for new users and thereby does NOT produce a conflict of interest
[05:16] <nixternal> Hobbsee: this is the same thing that the PCLOS crew did, so no worries, let them publish it and get on with it
[05:17] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: ah, but it's still based off mandriva, so this is clearly your preferred distribution, hence you'll compare everything to mandriva, and not note any of mandriva's pitfalls.
[05:17] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, and I would base it on ANY other distro that works
[05:17] <Hobbsee> OpenSorce: but, by all means, publish your article.  You'll just lose (presumably more of) your credibility.
[05:17] <OpenSorce> Hobbsee, whatever you need to tell yourself sweety.....see you guys next release
[05:18] <Hobbsee> good riddance.
[05:18] <nixternal> just so you know, Mandriva didn't work with my WiFi card (Broadcom) and Kubuntu does...so maybe I should right a ....good he left
[05:18] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:18] <Hobbsee> i never thought i'd end up blasting a guy over writing style, and inaccuracies in his writing, in a computer channel.
[05:18] <Hobbsee> i nevr thought i'd need to know that information again :D
[05:18] <nixternal> just me right?
[05:18] <nixternal> haha
[05:18] <Hobbsee> but hey, now i feel like blogging.
[05:18] <nixternal> hahahahaha, damn you!
[05:19] <Hobbsee> reminding people about primary and secondary sources, and bias and such.
[05:19] <nixternal> I can't be mean in my blogs anymore, there are way to many blog cops out there, and if I am mean, then Google won't hire me :p
[05:19] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:19] <Daskreech> I would
[05:19] <nixternal> lord knows I get the phisherman Google headhunters emailing me
[05:19] <Fujitsu> That's a pre-edit copy... I'd certainly hope so.
[05:19] <Daskreech> Oh I read a thing in maxim today that chicago is the toughest City in the US
[05:19] <nixternal> pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre....you get the idea :)
[05:19] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: uh, yeah.
[05:19] <Daskreech> So it would be local pride :)
[05:20] <nixternal> Daskreech: ya, we beat up people just for fun
[05:20] <nixternal> Daskreech: the only reason we were rated the meanest, is because Maxim was to scared to go to Detroit
[05:20]  * Hobbsee shakes her head some more.
[05:20] <nixternal> hahaha
[05:20] <nixternal> stop shaking, you might lose something there
[05:20] <Hobbsee> you tell people it's not as good as mandriva, then you wonder why they all say they hate it, and mandriva rocks.
[05:21] <Hobbsee> yeah, no shit, and -2000 points for a fair test.
[05:21] <Tm_T> :(
[05:21] <Tm_T> but he can write!
[05:21] <nixternal> speaking of Mandriva, I still have to interview them
[05:21] <Tm_T> there's no "like d000d"
[05:21] <Hobbsee> all i want to know now is what he writes for, to see if any other of their work is any better.
[05:21] <nixternal> umm, is this a Kubuntu takeover by chance? I just realized where we were
[05:21] <Hobbsee> nixternal: no.  he asked here, anyway.
[05:21] <Tm_T> nixternal: sssshhh
[05:21]  * nixternal sneaKs bacK to the land of K
[05:22] <nixternal> btw, it was LaserJock's fault for all of that
[05:22] <Tm_T> nixternal: Kood, I do too (its Kooler place anyway)
[05:34] <LaserJock> nixternal: what's my fault?
[05:41] <nixternal> LaserJock: everything
[05:41] <nixternal> oh nos, me goes
[05:43] <Tm_T> LaserJock: definately everything
[05:43] <Tm_T> nixternal: remember the almighty KDE!
[05:43]  * Tm_T hides
[05:47] <Tm_T> OpenSorce: hello dear, I missed you
[05:48] <OpenSorce> Tm_T, hi :-)
[05:55] <Fujitsu> O_o
[05:56] <Hobbsee>  /kb OpenSorce now go troll somewhere else.  Clearly, you missed the /topic
[05:56] <Hobbsee> idiot.
[05:59] <Hobbsee> no point banning a proxy, anyway
[06:01] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I'm not really sure that helped the situation :/
[06:01] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: perhaps not.  the guy is going to troll in the article anyway.
[06:03] <Daskreech> LaserJock: Last time he was here he was asking for some sort of official sanction that the devs agree that Kubuntu is a failure
[06:04] <Daskreech> LaserJock: If you can think of something that would help the situation I'd love to see you try
[06:04] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: now, i think that telling him to FOAD would be somewhat appropriate, but also unhelpful
[06:05] <LaserJock> well, ignoring him would be the best way to go, IMO
[06:05] <LaserJock> he's just looking for a reaction
[06:05] <LaserJock> and he got one
[06:05] <Hobbsee> next time i'll just remove him.
[06:05] <Daskreech> LaserJock: he's been around for two solid weeks
[06:06] <persia> Pacificity is likely best.  It's more satisfying to be able to write "and I was banned from IRC for attempting to get an update on the situation" instead of "I found the live-support options limited without a paid support contract".
[06:06] <LaserJock> Daskreech: yes, I know, I delt with him on Release day
[06:06] <Daskreech> LaserJock: did it help?
[06:08] <LaserJock> I thought so
[06:08] <LaserJock> he said he appreciated us looking into the issues
[06:10] <LaserJock> I realize is review is totally whacked out, but it'd be nice to retain the "but the devs seem cool"
[06:17] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: as in, give him lots of PR speak back, without telling him anything?  :)
[06:18] <Daskreech> Did he tell us anything?
[06:19] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: no, but not kicking him off the channel would an inbetween ;-)
[06:19] <LaserJock> at the time he wasn't doing anything that would warrant a kick
[06:20] <ajmitch> it's done now, anyway
[06:20] <LaserJock> very true
[06:34] <Hobbsee> woot!  scrapped article!
[06:34] <Hobbsee> seems the guy cares somewhat about his credibilty after all - particularly when we've pretty much found out who he is.
[06:35] <jdong> whoo, this LP scraper works
[06:35]  * jdong feel so proud of his 10 minutes of work :)
[06:35] <jdong> now, I can lpget azureus/hardy and it scrapes Launchpad for the source packages
[06:35] <jdong> no need to keep sources.list up to date
[06:36] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What?
[06:36] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: <OpenSorce> Ok, as charming as this conversation is, I've decided to scrap the Kubuntu article altogether....it causes too many hard feelings and my objectivity is in question so I think I'll stick with positive articles only henceforth
[06:36] <Fujitsu> Yay!
[06:36] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: some people went sleuthing.
[06:37] <Fujitsu> jdong: LP is getting a feature whereby you can dget http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/<series>/<sourcepackage> or similar in 1.1.11.
[06:37] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What was revealed?
[06:38] <Hobbsee>  Not really....I also used to sell insurance....but you know that if you went to shawnpeterman.com....and I have a daughter named Sarah :-)
[06:38] <Hobbsee> [17:30] <OpenSorce> In any case, I used to write for the Linux Is Freedom Endeavor years ago and some of my articles got picked up my larger venues and published then when Lindows threatened me with a lawsuit I changed the name I write under.....I'm also gay and have a gorgeous boyfriend.....anything else you want to know? :-)
[06:39] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: not overly much.
[06:39] <Hobbsee> but enough
[06:39] <Hobbsee> like his home # and such :)
[06:40] <Fujitsu> Hah.
[06:44] <jdong> Fujitsu: hmm, what do you mean?
[06:45] <jdong> Fujitsu: what would the URL return?
[06:45] <Fujitsu> jdong: You run dget on it, and it will grab the latest version of the source package.
[06:45] <jdong> Fujitsu: ah, ok, that's very cool
[06:45] <jdong> that'd be so much better than scraping LP with a ruby script
[06:45] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[06:46]  * jdong wonders if he can quickly turn his scraper into a madison clone too
[06:46] <jdong> *grin*
[06:47] <Fujitsu> jdong: rmadison -u ubuntu?
[06:47] <jdong> Fujitsu: how often is that updated?
[06:48] <Fujitsu> jdong: AFAIK it doesn't have to be.
[06:48] <jdong> Fujitsu: even better :)
[06:48] <Fujitsu> Probably queries the DB directly.
[06:48] <Fujitsu> (the CGI on the other end, that is)
[06:51]  * jdong wonders if he can write a heuristic for getting the name of a package to backport
[06:51] <jdong> from a LP bug title
[06:52] <jdong> I'm thing, filter out "please" "backport" "from" "to", all Ubuntu release names, and inverse-spellcheck
[06:52] <jdong> whatever's left is probably the package name
[06:52] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[06:52] <jdong> :)
[07:30] <slangasek> lifeless: the nicest thing I can say about scons is that there are no .la files to purge
[07:32] <slangasek> also, insomnia is irritating
[07:32]  * slangasek tries sleep again
[07:41] <Hobbsee> hiya slangasek
[07:58] <dhosta> Has anyone in here had any luck running rationals Purify on Ubuntu?
[07:59] <persia> dhosta: You might get a better answer to that question on either #ubuntu or some rational contact point (although you may not)
[08:00] <dhosta> rationalś forums are a dead end, and #ubuntu is tragic :/
[08:01] <pwnguin> i dont think the solution to either of those problems is taking developer attention away from the things they're already doing
[08:02] <persia> dhosta: Yes, unfortunately both are true, hence the qualifier.  It's just that people in this channel tend to be developing Ubuntu, and don't tend to use rational products.
[12:21] <ivoks> khm...
[12:21] <ivoks> telnet ntp.ubuntu.com ntp
[12:22] <ivoks> dead?
[12:22] <Hobbsee> odd way to do a ntpdate...
[12:23] <ion_> Since when does ntp use tcp?
[12:24] <ivoks> eh, you're right...
[12:25] <ivoks> but still... service is unavailable
[12:38] <fabbione> Amaranth: not anymore. it's Canonical IS running it now
[12:47] <Spads> try now
[12:50]  * Fujitsu notes he has never seen europium running ntp, at least since ntp.ubuntu.com was pointed at it.
[12:55] <CyberSnooP> Upgrading to gutsy on my server generated a 0-byte initrd and made the new kernel unbootable
[12:55] <CyberSnooP> Is there any information I can gather to help create a good bug-report?
[12:56] <CyberSnooP> (before i'm manually trying to fix al the things, that is)
[12:57] <minghua> CyberSnooP: It's weekend, I'm not sure many people are around.  You can also trying asking in #ubuntu-bugs and #ubuntu-kernel.
[12:58] <stgraber> actually there are many people around but probably having breakfast before fosscamp :)
[12:58] <CyberSnooP> Weekends are a good time to update your home server I'd say :-P
[12:59] <CyberSnooP> Oh, okay. Well, I don't want to be cross-posting in IRC too much, but I'll try in #ubuntu-kernel
[13:18] <IntuitiveNipple> Is there a meta-package for installing a 'correct' LAMP server, or alternatively a recommendation on which packages to install for Apache2 + PHP5 that avoids the endless loop of conflicts between pure apache2 + mpm-worker (which needs to use FastCGI for PHP5)  versus php5 wanting to install libapache2-mod-php5 + apache2-mpm-prefork ?
[13:19] <Fujitsu> IntuitiveNipple: You need mpm-prefork for PHP.
[13:19] <Fujitsu> It's not threadsafe.
[13:20] <Mithrandir> apache2 depends on a-mpm-worker | a-m-p, so there's no conflict there
[13:22] <Keybuk_> \o/  Bug #158040
[13:22]  * Keybuk_ fully rescinds the death order on BenC
[13:22] <IntuitiveNipple> And php5 depends on apache2-mpm-prefork, which when selected (in Synaptic) *deselects* apache2-mpm-worker
[13:23] <Fujitsu> launchpad bug #158040
[13:23] <Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 158040 in tracker "tracker doesn't leave any for the rest of the class" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158040
[13:24] <Keybuk_> you have to say "Launchpad" now?
[13:24] <IntuitiveNipple> Keybuk_: That bug might explain why I couldn't add inotify watches for one of my own processes... maybe tracker had exhausted the per-user limit
[13:25] <IntuitiveNipple> I was trying to fin a way to get the inotify library to report *all* inotify watches in operation but there doesn't seem to be way to check
[13:25] <IntuitiveNipple> s/fin/find/
[13:28] <Fujitsu> Keybuk_: ubotu is broken (got lost in a netsplit), and the backups require `launchpad bug'
[13:28] <Hobbsee> Keybuk_: temp bot
[13:29] <liw> Keybuk_, oh, I didn't know that inotify requires doing things per directory -- I thought there was some wildcard that you could use to apply for everything in a filesystem, and stuff like that
[13:29] <Mithrandir> liw: that'd be useful, so no, we don't have that.
[13:30] <liw> I guess I shouldn't blindly assume people do good designs
[13:33] <Keybuk_> Mithrandir: I'm very tempted to implement a recursive inotify
[13:33] <Keybuk_> assuming it's easy in the kernel to get the parent directory
[13:33] <Mithrandir> Keybuk_: I think I whined about that not existing about two minutes after you first explained inotify to me. :-P
[13:34] <Keybuk_> either that, or remove the ridiculous limits on the number of inotify instances
[13:35] <Mithrandir> it makes much more sense to just have it be a glob, IMO
[13:35] <Keybuk_> glob would be hard I think
[13:35] <Mithrandir> also, that limit might explain why tracker was never happy on my system.. 113k directories in ~
[13:36] <Keybuk_> yeah, 8000 directories is about ~/.gconf only or something
[13:36] <Mithrandir> why isn't .gconf just a single file?
[13:36] <Keybuk_> ask desrt
[13:36] <Mithrandir> it could be, like, an sqlite db or something.
[13:36] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: Because we're not the Windows Registry?
[13:36] <Mithrandir> desrt: whine.
[13:36] <ion_> I was under the impression that tracker includes .dirs
[13:36] <Mithrandir> desrt: ^^
[13:36] <liw> I have 411 entries under .gconf
[13:36] <tepsipakki> dconf  should change that
[13:37] <ion_> mithrandir: Yeah, sqlite should be just about perfect for it.
[13:37] <Mithrandir> Fujitsu: using a zillion xml files changes that?
[13:37] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir: I'm sure it does, somehow.
[13:38] <Mithrandir> well, technically gconf has pluggable backends.  I guess I should write one that is less insane.
[13:38] <Mithrandir> .. one which plugs into a revision control system, preferably.
[13:38] <Fujitsu> That sounds nice.
[13:43] <ion_> Well, you could just use sqlite and create a database schema that does history.
[13:43] <Mithrandir> ion_: that doesn't give me merging.
[13:44] <liw> Mithrandir, optionally plugs in (or optionally doesn't plug in), for people who keep their $HOME in a vcs already, perhaps?
[13:45] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/391851
[13:46] <Mithrandir> liw: htat's the idea, yes.
[13:46] <tepsipakki> http://live.gnome.org/dconf
[13:47] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: looks useful.
[13:47] <tepsipakki> let's get that in hardy :P
[13:47] <tepsipakki> "hardly"
[13:48] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: dconf still has the minor disadvantage of being vapourware, doesn't it?
[13:48] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: the crazy american tourist is here!
[13:48] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: heh :)
[13:48] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: are you going to get him to try to buy you some beer?
[13:49] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: maybe so, but some code at http://git.desrt.ca/
[13:49] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: given the legal drinking age here is 21, I think he might have trouble buying.
[13:49] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: worth a shot, anyway :)
[13:49] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: I could just find desrt around here and prod him.
[13:50] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: oh :)
[14:06] <spasticteapot> What's being done to improve battery life?
[14:06] <spasticteapot> For example, I have to run Laptop_mode manually, and I can't even get USB autosuspend to work.
[14:42] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[14:44] <alex-weej> hi MacSlow
[15:03] <mjg59> popey: Your Nokia PSU is 230V only
[15:06] <twi1> hi
[15:06] <twi1> what happened to the linux-image-debug* packages?
[15:07] <crimsun> they're still there in gutsy
[15:08] <twi1> mmh, not for powerpc
[15:26] <slangasek> lifeless: score, opensync 0.33 built and the python bindings are unusable out of the box \o/
[15:26] <StevenK> Unusable, neat.
[15:28] <Hobbsee> dholbach!
[15:28] <dholbach> hi Hobbsee
[15:39] <luk_> hi dholbach, hi Hobbsee
[15:39]  * Hobbsee waves sleepily to luk_
[15:41] <dholbach> hey luk_
[15:42] <geser> Hi dholbach
[15:42] <lifeless> slangasek: woot!
[15:43] <Keybuk> GOD DAMNIT GNOME POWER MANAGER!
[15:43] <StevenK> Dear.
[15:44] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: it's just taking it's commands from the boss, on irc.s3kr3t.hobbsee.org....
[15:44] <Hobbsee> nothing major
[15:45] <siretart> asac: didn't you say yesterday you had an updated network-manager package in your ppa? I fail to spot it on https://edge.launchpad.net/~asac/+archive
[16:01] <twi_> mmh no mention in git log why CONFIG_DEBUG_INFO was removed from powerpc/config
[16:07]  * Hobbsee wonders when pidgin will go thru gutsy-security
[16:18] <Riddell> mdz: http://obso1337.org/hci/kde/Kubuntu_Installation_Usability_testing_June_2007.pdf
[16:23]  * StevenK grumbles.
[16:23] <StevenK> Why does autogen depend on base-files 4.0.1?
[16:25] <Mithrandir> StevenK: for GFDL or something?
[16:25] <StevenK> Hrm. That might be it.
[16:25] <StevenK> Now I need to merge that. Or beg doko or something
[16:26] <minghua> GFDL?  or GPL v3?
[16:27] <StevenK> Ah. GPL-3
[16:53] <asac> siretart: its ~ppa3
[17:07] <siretart> asac: but the verison in gutsy is even 'higher'. so I have to downgrade to get the 'fix'?
[17:08] <asac> yes
[17:08] <asac> i should upload a higher version ... but i will rather go for sru directly
[17:14] <black_13> i notice that ubuntu is very seemless in its start up to xorg
[17:14] <black_13> and is this dependent on using grub as a bootloader?
[17:17] <crimsun> no, it's not.
[17:17] <crimsun> [dependent on grub]
[17:30] <keescook> mjg59: woohoo!  I've fixed another person's suspend problems.  :)
[17:30]  * pitti hugs keescook
[17:31] <jdstrand> pitti: are you planning on adding a blueprint or something for backup solutions for UDS?
[17:32] <jdstrand> (I didn't see one)
[17:32] <pitti> jdstrand: it's not a topic for hardy
[17:32] <pitti> jdstrand: we can dump the bullet point list into a wiki page, of course
[17:32] <jdstrand> hardy+1?
[17:32] <pitti> jdstrand: yes
[17:32] <jdstrand> bummer...
[17:32] <jdstrand> but I understand
[17:49] <chowmeined> what are the plans for hardy?
[18:14] <mjg59> keescook: Sweet!
[18:14] <keescook> mjg59: and I just finished dumping my notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnderstandingSuspend
[18:14] <twi_> did you already branch the kernel for herdy?
[18:51] <jdstrand> http://ch.tudelft.nl/~arthur/nss-ldapd/news.html
[18:52] <siretart> keescook: thanks for doing this!
[18:53] <keescook> siretart: you bet; I'm glad to have something to reference for myself now too.  ;)
[19:43] <calc> i noticed that ooo-langpacks isn't on the official schedule for UDS yet(?)
[19:44] <calc> its on the wiki description list but not on the time schedule
[19:48] <pitti> calc: it might be a dynamically scheduled one?
[19:48] <pitti> calc: those will be done right before starting each day next week
[19:56] <calc> pitti: oh ok
[20:06] <slangasek> keescook: mjg59 says you have a library to be sponsored
[20:10] <StevenK> pitti: Ping
[20:11] <pitti> StevenK: pong, right over here :)
[20:11] <StevenK> pitti: I saw you, just don't want to yell over the room. :-)
[20:12] <StevenK> pitti: I was looking at anjuta, and one of its Build-Depends looks to require base-files 4.0.1
[20:12] <stgraber> ^^ two people talking on IRC when they are in the same room ...
[20:13] <StevenK> stgraber: There are other dicussions going on. :-)
[20:13] <pitti> StevenK: hm, seems for hardy it was only bumped to ubuntu6, but not merged
[20:13] <StevenK> pitti: Agreed.
[20:13] <pitti> StevenK: seems you just voluntold yourself to do that :-P
[20:13] <stgraber> StevenK: MOTU room ?
[20:13] <StevenK> pitti: Well, my problem is the changelog for base-files. Would you mind glancing at it and seeing if you think it's sane.
[20:14] <StevenK> pitti: http://changelog.debian.net/base-files
[20:14] <StevenK> stgraber: Yup.
[20:15] <pitti> StevenK: ok, I read it; I think it's alright, and we archive admins already do the GPL version check with new sources
[20:16] <pitti> StevenK: I see that this will magically 'break' a lot of copyrights, but if Debian goes that route, I think it's ok for us, too
[20:17] <StevenK> pitti: Yes, that was my problem, too. I'm happy to merge it and upload it. Do you want to eyeball the debdiff, or just throw it up?
[20:18] <pitti> StevenK: that sounds simple enough to me, go ahead
[20:26] <mathiaz> soren: would you mind having a look at bug 130836 ?
[20:28] <StevenK> pitti: Should I bother with ubuntu-devel -> ubuntu-devel-discuss ?
[20:28] <StevenK> pitti: (For the Maintainer field)
[20:28] <pitti> StevenK: if you spot it, feel free to correct the Maintainer: field
[20:33] <StevenK> pitti: Uploaded/uploading
[20:54] <chx> hi. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-boston-2007/+roadmap this has a typo Improve Windows integration as a sever and a client for Ubuntu <= either sewer or server. both would fit Windows :P