| Arafangion | Hey guys, how do I send an event whenever my eth0 becomes up? | 01:53 |
|---|---|---|
| Keybuk | hello | 01:56 |
| Keybuk | Arafangion: initctl emit | 01:56 |
| Keybuk | (simple answer) | 01:56 |
| Arafangion | Keybuk: yes, where exactly do I put that? | 01:56 |
| Arafangion | My networking job does '/sbin/ip link set eth0 up', but it is only some time later that eth0 actually becomes up. | 01:57 |
| Keybuk | Arafangion: I cannot answer that question without detailed knowledge of how your distro of choice manages its network interfaces | 01:57 |
| Arafangion | Keybuk: It's custom, without sysv compatibility. | 01:57 |
| Keybuk | then only you can answer that question | 01:58 |
| Keybuk | you might have something like Network Manager | 01:58 |
| Keybuk | or at least HAL or udev | 01:58 |
| Arafangion | Keybuk: I have udev, I have yet to install HAL. | 01:58 |
| Arafangion | Do I need HAL? | 01:58 |
| Keybuk | udev would tell you when the interface comes UP | 01:58 |
| Arafangion | Would udev be able to send the event? | 01:59 |
| Keybuk | that wouldn't tell you whether it was configured or not | 01:59 |
| Keybuk | only something like Network Manager could tell you that | 01:59 |
| Arafangion | Hmm, so I'd pretty well need to setup HAL, and write a custom script to manage that? | 01:59 |
| Arafangion | For now, I suppose I'll have to make do with a sleep 2 in the networking script. | 01:00 |
| Keybuk | a Utopian Upstart install would look something like: | 01:00 |
| Keybuk | Upstart as init | 01:01 |
| Keybuk | D-BUS for IPC | 01:01 |
| Keybuk | udev for kernel user-space management | 01:01 |
| Keybuk | HAL for application management | 01:01 |
| Keybuk | Network Manager dealing with network interfaces | 01:01 |
| Keybuk | GNOME Power Manager dealing with ACPI/APM | 01:01 |
| Arafangion | I'll be doing something very similar. :) | 01:01 |
| Keybuk | we haven't figured out all the bits yet | 01:02 |
| Arafangion | Must be why the documentation is a bit sparse in some places. :) | 01:03 |
| Keybuk | exactly | 01:03 |
| Keybuk | Upstart 0.3 is, at best, a technology prototype/demo | 01:04 |
| Arafangion | I'm using upstart 0.3.8, with the install slightly patched to prevent broken symlinks. | 01:05 |
| Keybuk | 0.3.9 fixes that, no? | 01:05 |
| Arafangion | Hopefully. ;) | 01:05 |
| Arafangion | But it wasn't fixed in 0.3.8, which was the version that was up-to-date when I tried it. :) | 01:06 |
| Keybuk | you're using program-prefix/suffix/transform and the symlinks aren't transformed | 01:06 |
| Arafangion | What? | 01:06 |
| Keybuk | ? | 01:06 |
| Arafangion | No, just two symbolic links that deal with sysv compatibility was created regardless of sysv compatibility being enabled or not. | 01:07 |
| Arafangion | A minor thing, really. | 01:07 |
| Keybuk | oh | 01:07 |
| Keybuk | I think that's fixed in 0.3.9 too | 01:07 |
| Keybuk | yes | 01:07 |
| Arafangion | Cool. :) | 01:07 |
| Arafangion | Maybe in a few months, I'll backup and check out the latest version of upstart. :) | 01:08 |
| Arafangion | I'm aiming to have a /very/ nice boot sequence. | 01:08 |
| Arafangion | (It's a laptop) | 01:08 |
| Arafangion | My major fault with upstart so far is the diagnostics are a bit... raw. | 01:09 |
| Arafangion | If I add a new job to /etc/events.d, it complains about 'init: //etc/event.d/foo: unable to read: Invalid argument', without really giving me much more info. | 01:10 |
| Arafangion | Also seems to refer to a mythical /etc/event.d/4913, as well. | 01:10 |
| Keybuk | vim | 01:11 |
| Keybuk | it always makes a file called 4913 in whatever directory you're editing files | 01:11 |
| Keybuk | so Upstart thinks it's a job | 01:11 |
| Keybuk | and what other info do you expect there? | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | That's all the info Upstart *has* | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | it tried to read a file, and it got EINVAL | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | though that's a bug :) | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | EINVAL (since Linux 2.6.12), length was 0. | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | you should file that <g> | 01:12 |
| Arafangion | Heh. :) | 01:12 |
| Arafangion | I may be a dev, but I'm a *user* here. ;) | 01:13 |
| Arafangion | Still, it's complaining about /two/ files, really. | 01:13 |
| Arafangion | Perhaps a fix would be an upedit command, which makes a copy of the job in /tmp, then edits it with the preferred editor. | 01:14 |
| Keybuk | or just don't use vim :) | 01:14 |
| Arafangion | DIE! | 01:14 |
| Keybuk | it's not really an issue | 01:14 |
| Keybuk | since it'll read it properly in the end anyway | 01:14 |
| Keybuk | it just tends to bitch a bit along the way | 01:14 |
| Arafangion | It just makes things a bit confusing for us mortals. :( | 01:15 |
| Arafangion | I must say I've been rather impressed with the design of upstart, nice and small, and simple. | 01:16 |
| Arafangion | That reminds me - how _do_ I get upstart to log itself verbositely to a file? | 01:16 |
| Keybuk | for things like that, I'd just rather fix the underlying problem | 01:16 |
| Keybuk | you can't | 01:17 |
| Keybuk | there's generally no filesystem to log *to* :-) | 01:17 |
| Arafangion | Well, it generally logs already, and that can be redirected, but how do I specify '-v' to init? | 01:17 |
| Keybuk | kernel command line | 01:18 |
| Keybuk | you can give it --debug too for even more | 01:18 |
| Arafangion | So, I do init=/sbin/init -v" | 01:18 |
| Arafangion | ? | 01:19 |
| Arafangion | But how would -v become associated with the init parameter? | 01:19 |
| ion_ | Just add plain -v to the kernel command line. | 01:20 |
| Keybuk | init=/sbin/init -v | 01:21 |
| Arafangion | ion_: And that wouldn't conflict with any other parameters any other programs want? | 01:21 |
| Keybuk | kernel passes all parameters to init | 01:21 |
| Arafangion | Or is init always the last parameter? | 01:21 |
| Arafangion | Ahh, I see. | 01:21 |
| Arafangion | How come I haven't recieved my mail to the udev mailing list? | 01:22 |
| Arafangion | *upstart, not udev* | 01:22 |
| Keybuk | are you subscribed to the list? | 01:23 |
| Arafangion | I believe so. | 01:24 |
| Arafangion | And I've responded to the latest email sent on that list. | 01:24 |
| Arafangion | upstart-devel | 01:24 |
| Keybuk | it didn't hit the moderator queue | 01:26 |
| Arafangion | Was it blocked? | 01:28 |
| Arafangion | Oh, *sigh*. | 01:28 |
| Arafangion | <censored> mail client. | 01:28 |
| Arafangion | Is the default reply to the user, nto the list? | 01:28 |
| Arafangion | Hmm, evidently. | 01:30 |
| Keybuk | user | 01:40 |
| Arafangion | Hmm, it's quite a moderated list. :) | 01:44 |
| Arafangion | Probably wise. | 01:44 |
| Keybuk | it's not moderated | 01:48 |
| Keybuk | just limited to subscribers | 01:48 |
| Arafangion | Well, it says: Post by non-member to a members-only list | 01:48 |
| Arafangion | yet I'm obviously a subscriber, since I recieved the email in the first place. | 01:48 |
| Arafangion | Oh, my mistake. | 01:49 |
| * Arafangion used a different email address. | 01:49 | |
| * Arafangion is feeling very 'newbie' today. :( | 01:50 | |
| Keybuk | I can accept that one | 01:53 |
| Arafangion | I do find it rather peculiar that ubuntu does not seem to use upstart's extra features - it's still entirely in sysv compatibility? (That correct?) | 01:55 |
| Keybuk | right | 01:57 |
| Keybuk | that's correct | 01:59 |
| Keybuk | why peculiar? | 01:59 |
| Arafangion | Because I seem to suspect that the only reason why ubuntu wanted upstart was becuase "nothing else was good enough", yet they still do everything the same way. | 02:00 |
| Keybuk | Upstart's still being developed | 02:01 |
| Arafangion | Yes, there's that, I guess I'm just used to Debian. If it were debian, it'd already be starting to be integrated into the main distro properly, imho. | 02:03 |
| Arafangion | Not stable, mind you, it'd be in testing or unstable. ;) | 02:03 |
| Keybuk | not true | 02:05 |
| Keybuk | you can't integrate something unfinished | 02:06 |
| Keybuk | you have to finish it first | 02:06 |
| Keybuk | especially if the bits that aren't finished are the bits that let you integrate it | 02:06 |
| Arafangion | That's what unstable and experimental are for. ;) | 02:07 |
| Arafangion | What are the current showstoppers for upstart, though? | 02:07 |
| Keybuk | no | 02:09 |
| Keybuk | unstable is for packages intended for release | 02:09 |
| Keybuk | you wouldn't put something there that simply doesn't boot | 02:09 |
| Keybuk | experimental, perhaps | 02:10 |
| Keybuk | but that's just a playground | 02:10 |
| Keybuk | main showstopper is that it's not possible to develop complex interdependencies between jobs | 02:10 |
| Keybuk | or relate those to hardware | 02:10 |
| Arafangion | What's an example of such a complex interdependency? | 02:10 |
| Keybuk | <Arafangion> Hey guys, how do I send an event whenever my eth0 becomes up? | 02:11 |
| Keybuk | for example | 02:11 |
| Keybuk | :p | 02:11 |
| Arafangion | Heh, but arguably, it should be sufficient to have udev start a script that then does some monitoring, though it would indeed be even nicer if that was part of the job itself, as perhaps another stanza. | 02:13 |
| Keybuk | udev shouldn't start things like that | 02:15 |
| Keybuk | it's a daemon for getting devices created | 02:15 |
| Keybuk | not a device manager | 02:15 |
| Arafangion | Perhaps, but it already has the functionality. | 02:15 |
| Keybuk | no, it doesn't | 02:16 |
| Arafangion | And to do what I wanted with eth0, you need the signal from udev anyway, so udev's already a requirement. | 02:16 |
| Arafangion | It doesn't? | 02:16 |
| Keybuk | not true | 02:16 |
| Keybuk | you want to use HAL | 02:16 |
| Arafangion | run+="foobar"? | 02:16 |
| Arafangion | Hmm. | 02:16 |
| Keybuk | how do you stop foobar? | 02:16 |
| Arafangion | Good question. | 02:18 |
| === Jc2k_ is now known as Jc2k | ||
| Jc2k | ooh thats magic | 12:26 |
| Keybuk | hmm? | 12:27 |
| Jc2k | [i=scott@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-23c3b871e5ad4e13] | 12:27 |
| Keybuk | yeah, it's a Cloak | 12:27 |
| Keybuk | we're all at the same IP address, so FreeNode would k-line us for "cloning" otherwise | 12:27 |
| Keybuk | so we tell them that we're at a conference, and they add a magic cloak | 12:28 |
| Jc2k | i c :) | 12:28 |
| Jc2k | oh well, back to sync coding. | 12:28 |
| Jc2k | my BDFL wants to drum up some attention at UDS with pretty Planet Gnome posts.. | 12:29 |
| Jc2k | holy cow. seems conduit is on the board of topics... | 12:32 |
| * Jc2k works harder | 12:32 | |
| === Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk | ||
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