[01:53] Hey guys, how do I send an event whenever my eth0 becomes up? [01:56] hello [01:56] Arafangion: initctl emit [01:56] (simple answer) [01:56] Keybuk: yes, where exactly do I put that? [01:57] My networking job does '/sbin/ip link set eth0 up', but it is only some time later that eth0 actually becomes up. [01:57] Arafangion: I cannot answer that question without detailed knowledge of how your distro of choice manages its network interfaces [01:57] Keybuk: It's custom, without sysv compatibility. [01:58] then only you can answer that question [01:58] you might have something like Network Manager [01:58] or at least HAL or udev [01:58] Keybuk: I have udev, I have yet to install HAL. [01:58] Do I need HAL? [01:58] udev would tell you when the interface comes UP [01:59] Would udev be able to send the event? [01:59] that wouldn't tell you whether it was configured or not [01:59] only something like Network Manager could tell you that [01:59] Hmm, so I'd pretty well need to setup HAL, and write a custom script to manage that? [01:00] For now, I suppose I'll have to make do with a sleep 2 in the networking script. [01:00] a Utopian Upstart install would look something like: [01:01] Upstart as init [01:01] D-BUS for IPC [01:01] udev for kernel user-space management [01:01] HAL for application management [01:01] Network Manager dealing with network interfaces [01:01] GNOME Power Manager dealing with ACPI/APM [01:01] I'll be doing something very similar. :) [01:02] we haven't figured out all the bits yet [01:03] Must be why the documentation is a bit sparse in some places. :) [01:03] exactly [01:04] Upstart 0.3 is, at best, a technology prototype/demo [01:05] I'm using upstart 0.3.8, with the install slightly patched to prevent broken symlinks. [01:05] 0.3.9 fixes that, no? [01:05] Hopefully. ;) [01:06] But it wasn't fixed in 0.3.8, which was the version that was up-to-date when I tried it. :) [01:06] you're using program-prefix/suffix/transform and the symlinks aren't transformed [01:06] What? [01:06] ? [01:07] No, just two symbolic links that deal with sysv compatibility was created regardless of sysv compatibility being enabled or not. [01:07] A minor thing, really. [01:07] oh [01:07] I think that's fixed in 0.3.9 too [01:07] yes [01:07] Cool. :) [01:08] Maybe in a few months, I'll backup and check out the latest version of upstart. :) [01:08] I'm aiming to have a /very/ nice boot sequence. [01:08] (It's a laptop) [01:09] My major fault with upstart so far is the diagnostics are a bit... raw. [01:10] If I add a new job to /etc/events.d, it complains about 'init: //etc/event.d/foo: unable to read: Invalid argument', without really giving me much more info. [01:10] Also seems to refer to a mythical /etc/event.d/4913, as well. [01:11] vim [01:11] it always makes a file called 4913 in whatever directory you're editing files [01:11] so Upstart thinks it's a job [01:12] and what other info do you expect there? [01:12] That's all the info Upstart *has* [01:12] it tried to read a file, and it got EINVAL [01:12] though that's a bug :) [01:12] EINVAL (since Linux 2.6.12), length was 0. [01:12] you should file that [01:12] Heh. :) [01:13] I may be a dev, but I'm a *user* here. ;) [01:13] Still, it's complaining about /two/ files, really. [01:14] Perhaps a fix would be an upedit command, which makes a copy of the job in /tmp, then edits it with the preferred editor. [01:14] or just don't use vim :) [01:14] DIE! [01:14] it's not really an issue [01:14] since it'll read it properly in the end anyway [01:14] it just tends to bitch a bit along the way [01:15] It just makes things a bit confusing for us mortals. :( [01:16] I must say I've been rather impressed with the design of upstart, nice and small, and simple. [01:16] That reminds me - how _do_ I get upstart to log itself verbositely to a file? [01:16] for things like that, I'd just rather fix the underlying problem [01:17] you can't [01:17] there's generally no filesystem to log *to* :-) [01:17] Well, it generally logs already, and that can be redirected, but how do I specify '-v' to init? [01:18] kernel command line [01:18] you can give it --debug too for even more [01:18] So, I do init=/sbin/init -v" [01:19] ? [01:19] But how would -v become associated with the init parameter? [01:20] Just add plain -v to the kernel command line. [01:21] init=/sbin/init -v [01:21] ion_: And that wouldn't conflict with any other parameters any other programs want? [01:21] kernel passes all parameters to init [01:21] Or is init always the last parameter? [01:21] Ahh, I see. [01:22] How come I haven't recieved my mail to the udev mailing list? [01:22] *upstart, not udev* [01:23] are you subscribed to the list? [01:24] I believe so. [01:24] And I've responded to the latest email sent on that list. [01:24] upstart-devel [01:26] it didn't hit the moderator queue [01:28] Was it blocked? [01:28] Oh, *sigh*. [01:28] mail client. [01:28] Is the default reply to the user, nto the list? [01:30] Hmm, evidently. [01:40] user [01:44] Hmm, it's quite a moderated list. :) [01:44] Probably wise. [01:48] it's not moderated [01:48] just limited to subscribers [01:48] Well, it says: Post by non-member to a members-only list [01:48] yet I'm obviously a subscriber, since I recieved the email in the first place. [01:49] Oh, my mistake. [01:49] * Arafangion used a different email address. [01:50] * Arafangion is feeling very 'newbie' today. :( [01:53] I can accept that one [01:55] I do find it rather peculiar that ubuntu does not seem to use upstart's extra features - it's still entirely in sysv compatibility? (That correct?) [01:57] right [01:59] that's correct [01:59] why peculiar? [02:00] Because I seem to suspect that the only reason why ubuntu wanted upstart was becuase "nothing else was good enough", yet they still do everything the same way. [02:01] Upstart's still being developed [02:03] Yes, there's that, I guess I'm just used to Debian. If it were debian, it'd already be starting to be integrated into the main distro properly, imho. [02:03] Not stable, mind you, it'd be in testing or unstable. ;) [02:05] not true [02:06] you can't integrate something unfinished [02:06] you have to finish it first [02:06] especially if the bits that aren't finished are the bits that let you integrate it [02:07] That's what unstable and experimental are for. ;) [02:07] What are the current showstoppers for upstart, though? [02:09] no [02:09] unstable is for packages intended for release [02:09] you wouldn't put something there that simply doesn't boot [02:10] experimental, perhaps [02:10] but that's just a playground [02:10] main showstopper is that it's not possible to develop complex interdependencies between jobs [02:10] or relate those to hardware [02:10] What's an example of such a complex interdependency? [02:11] Hey guys, how do I send an event whenever my eth0 becomes up? [02:11] for example [02:11] :p [02:13] Heh, but arguably, it should be sufficient to have udev start a script that then does some monitoring, though it would indeed be even nicer if that was part of the job itself, as perhaps another stanza. [02:15] udev shouldn't start things like that [02:15] it's a daemon for getting devices created [02:15] not a device manager [02:15] Perhaps, but it already has the functionality. [02:16] no, it doesn't [02:16] And to do what I wanted with eth0, you need the signal from udev anyway, so udev's already a requirement. [02:16] It doesn't? [02:16] not true [02:16] you want to use HAL [02:16] run+="foobar"? [02:16] Hmm. [02:16] how do you stop foobar? [02:18] Good question. === Jc2k_ is now known as Jc2k [12:26] ooh thats magic [12:27] hmm? [12:27] [i=scott@conference/ubuntu-developer-summit/x-23c3b871e5ad4e13] [12:27] yeah, it's a Cloak [12:27] we're all at the same IP address, so FreeNode would k-line us for "cloning" otherwise [12:28] so we tell them that we're at a conference, and they add a magic cloak [12:28] i c :) [12:28] oh well, back to sync coding. [12:29] my BDFL wants to drum up some attention at UDS with pretty Planet Gnome posts.. [12:32] holy cow. seems conduit is on the board of topics... [12:32] * Jc2k works harder === Keybuk_ is now known as Keybuk