[00:15] whats merging? [00:19] the dark side and the rebel forces? [00:19] aha [00:19] now whats it reallu [00:20] really* [00:36] Riddell: yay, I was sleeping, sowwy [00:38] hi Nightrose [00:38] Tm_T: Umm who? [00:38] hey Daskreech ;-) wasup? [00:39] Nightrose: how are you? I grabbed your PDf for the presentations [00:39] nice lolcat [00:39] hehe I'm fine - just upgraded to gutsy [00:39] Daskreech: just some random idlers without any apparent (good) purpose [00:39] you? [00:39] i upgraded to gutsy last week [00:39] and now have leopard too! [00:39] im happy [00:40] a big cat! [00:40] ;-) [00:40] Daskreech: no, mac os [00:40] coreymon77: I feel so sorry for you [00:40] uga: why? [00:41] coreymon77: cus I care about you, and I can't see you suffering so much, trapped under so much crap osx [00:41] Riddell: btw staff is contacted in this idly matter, I've seen those everywhere so who knows how wide issue it really turns out to be :( [00:41] uga: i have kubuntu too [00:41] uga: its my laptop [00:41] uga: and i like osx [00:41] uga: i like kubuntu too [00:42] coreymon77: yeah well. I hope you manage to get rid of osx soon [00:42] uga: why? [00:42] best wishes [00:42] =) [00:42] uga: i take it you dont like apple much [00:42] coreymon77: it's so complex thing to use ;) [00:42] Ha ha [00:43] uga: meh? [00:43] :S [00:43] one day I'll repeat the story of uga using osx... and you'll find out it's HARD [00:43] but not now, it's late =) [00:43] gnight all === uga is now known as uga|away [00:43] its not hard for me [00:44] w/e [00:44] haha :) [00:44] Daskreech: im confused... [00:50] I tihnk that may be the pooiint [00:50] ... [01:24] * Jucato yawns and stretches.... [01:25] * Daskreech avoids the vortex [01:25] :) [01:26] Jucato: good morning [01:26] morning/evening [01:26] good [01:27] Jucato: its night here [01:27] Jucato: but its morning for you, isnt it? [01:27] yep === Daskreech__ is now known as Daskreech [02:22] finally home.. so tired.. [02:23] hi seele! how was the fosscamp? [02:24] Jucato: great.. particularly getting to review ubiquity with all the maintainers [02:24] (or most of them) [02:24] oh :) [02:24] Hi, just to let you know kde4 beta4 was tagged on october 26 [02:25] Jucato: i have leopard now! [02:25] how is it? [02:25] :D [02:25] CPrgmSwR2: Riddel probably knows already. but he's also probably quite busy, this week being UDS [02:25] if thats any indication [02:26] hehehe [02:26] oh [02:26] and funniest thing [02:26] coreymon77: how is leopard [02:26] for the new finder [02:26] and its new icons [02:26] they have a brand new icon for windows shares [02:26] which is this [02:26] this is the icon for windows servers/shares on the network [02:26] i swear [02:26] http://babygotmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/pcicon.png [02:27] lol [02:27] lol [02:27] thats the actual icon! [02:27] lol [02:28] while the mac/linux share icon is a nice flat screen monitor with the apple background [02:28] and the new finder has cover flow view [02:28] which is basically the same as the new ipods [02:28] With the release of Vista, Leopard is going to kick its ass [02:29] look at the guided tour on apples website [02:30] http://www.apple.com/macosx/guidedtour/ [02:31] I am all excited about kde4 [02:31] me too [02:31] anyways shower time [02:31] okay [02:40] i'm looking at the KubuntuExtras page, aren't k3b, katapult, and ktorrent already included by default? [02:40] just goes to show how much our users are aware of our default packages :) [02:40] i'm tempted to edit the page and just take them off the list, but then i bet somebody will come by and put them on again [02:41] yuriy: you could just note at the bottom :) [02:41] separate them I mean [02:42] and knotes.. [03:04] /msg nickserv identify founders01 === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [03:05] jjesse: I suggest you change your password [03:05] it was broadcasted to this channel === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse === Daskreech__ is now known as Daskreech [03:29] mzungu: well, your idea took off it seems, with just a few shying away from the original path...but overall a decent turnout of applications [03:36] jjesse: I take it you saw what was said to you above? I will ghost ya if you didn't :) [03:36] about me being stupid [03:36] yeah i saw that [03:36] heh [03:36] my roomate and i are laughing at you [03:37] I hear you and mario are roomies [03:37] hehe [03:37] ya, tell that wanna-be chicago boy to hush :) [03:37] jeesh, I have you both in different channels yacking at me :p [03:38] is there going to be a replacement soon to qtpart? [03:38] or qtparted [03:38] Because the kubuntu partitioner program needs help [03:38] heh, I had a smart arse comment for that one, but I left it alone [03:38] CPrgmSwR2: so does the Ubuntu one [03:39] couldn't reisist? [03:39] they both fail hardcore if you ask me...heck, I was even confused [03:39] both are just frontends to parted as far as I know [03:39] especially since the drop down widget for mount, is empty, so you have to type it in [03:39] Jucato: you still around? [03:39] I think thats an area that needs help [03:39] kubuntu-extras? [03:39] are you writing that/ [03:39] jjesse: yes [03:40] grin :) [03:40] of course you can always throw in some goodness as well [03:40] it is easier to document the hot apps than it is to get them on a CD [03:40] agreed, subscribed [03:40] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuExtras [03:41] saw it on your blog via planet [03:41] I blogged to have people add to the list, and I will document all of those apps eventually [03:41] ya [03:41] jjesse: be careful with that Mario character...that is all I have to say [03:41] :p [03:41] GO BOSTON!!! [03:42] oh man, I bet Joey Standford is hating Boston this time of year :) [03:43] * Jucato_ waves to nixternal and jjesse [03:43] wasabi homeskillet chicken flapper [03:43] Jucato hello [03:43] imbrandon: ^^ there is a new one! [03:43] O.o [03:43] if you are familiar with the Jerky Boys, then you know where I get my inspiration :p [03:44] lol [03:44] jjesse: found a few wrong tags on the latest adeptguide.xml from your branch [03:44] nixternal: nope.. is that an american thing? :D [03:44] Jucato_: that's because jjesse is a no0b at documenting :p [03:44] * nixternal ducks [03:44] lol [03:44] grin [03:44] Jucato_: that would be a New Jersey thing [03:44] * Jucato_ heads for the bomb shelter [03:44] Jucato_: awseome [03:44] and n8430fklakdk830 isn't here [03:44] Jucato_: feel freee to change them and snd me either a diff or create your own branch [03:45] Jucato_: you watched the leopard tour yet? [03:45] jjesse: already made a diff I think. lol [03:45] coreymon77: downloading it :) [03:45] Jucato_: awseom, i'm heading to bed looks like busy day at UDS< but feel to contact me [03:45] oooh you're at UDS? lucky you :)O [03:45] :o) [03:45] (as mhb would say) [03:45] and he is rooming with the mafia [03:46] :D [03:46] with mario lemonsquare [03:46] or mario mostaccioli [03:46] mario and luigi? [03:46] the MythBuntu guy [03:46] our famous Chicago LoCo'an [03:46] aaaah [03:47] LoCo'ist.. [03:47] that works [03:47] hahah [03:47] :D [03:47] uh oh, chatzilla? [03:47] DaSkreech_: you no0b, at least change the name man [03:47] lol [03:47] hahaha, pwnd [03:47] bwahahah [03:48] Yeah [03:48] I'm in vista now [03:48] that's almost as bad as DaSkreech_!n=mIRC@72.252.29.149 [03:48] you know, the entire time I had Windows running, I didn't see how much mIRC hasn't changed since the 90s :) [03:48] Well Chatzilla is open source so I fail to see how that's "as bad" [03:49] mIRC isn't open source? [03:49] :D [03:49] x-chat on windows is available... for 30 days :D [03:49] Not last time I looked [03:49] I thought mIRC was...shows you how long it has been...I just figured it was, and everyone was borrowing from it...nope, now I know they are all thieves [03:50] it's freeware [03:50] man, I used to think mIRC was the best thing since sliced break baack in the day...back when BitchX was the champ [03:50] I hate sliced breaks [03:50] me too...mIRC was the only IRC client i knew back then [03:50] * Jucato_ likes sliced break [03:51] I wish they would give me all my breaks at once [03:51] This take a break. get back to business! take a break! get back to business! [03:51] Annnnnoying [03:52] that was supposed to be sliced bread [03:52] derr [03:52] :D [03:53] nixternal: I don't like sliced bread either [03:53] I guess I will have to force you to like it [03:53] but I assumed that messing up a key alllllllllllllllll the way on the other side of the keyboard must be a mistake made on purpose :) [03:54] sliced bread is the 2nd most common/popular form of bread here :) [03:54] this would be the most popular: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_de_sal [03:54] Is it sliced? [03:54] yeah [03:55] So it's the most popular [03:55] wait? the pan de sal or the sliced bread? the sliced bread is sliced of course :) [03:56] the pan de sal [03:56] ah no, it isn't sliced [03:56] * Jucato_ wonders what else to try out in opensuse10.3 [03:56] There you go it's not the best thing since sliced bread [03:57] sliced bread ain't that great :) [03:57] you got a knife, you got bread, just slice the damn thing -- George Carlin [03:59] there we go :) [03:59] I normally get my bread direct from a bakery anyway === DaSkreech_ is now known as dasKreech === dasKreech is now known as RobotniK [04:09] !nickspam | RobotniK [04:09] RobotniK: You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair on new users. The same goes for using noisy away messages : use the command "/away " to set your client away silently - See also !Guidelines [04:10] :P [04:10] How is that nickspam? [04:10] RobotniK: You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair on new users. The same goes for using noisy away messages : use the command "/away " to set your client away silently - See also !Guidelines [04:10] lol 2x :D [04:10] I'm not in any chan remotely busy [04:10] j/k :D [04:12] you aren't joking...just kde and here [04:12] unless he's +i :D [04:22] Jucato__: Umm Ok [04:23] http://tinyurl.com/2nk4tr [04:23] Jucato: What have you played with in 10.3 ? [04:24] nothing much yet... [04:24] and you have run out of stuff to look for? [04:25] I'm not even sure where to start :) [04:28] the power button! [04:28] jeesh [04:28] no the power cord [04:29] nixternal == fail === RobotniK is now known as dasKreech [04:29] So nixternal up for the release notes chat? [04:29] go for it [04:30] * Jucato_ is already on 10.3... [04:30] So we seem likely to ask if the user wants to keep KDE 3 or if they want to dump it [04:30] I'm thinking that the user will most likely have no clue what that implies to them [04:31] I'm sure even people following KDE4 from a distance are not going to know what that means [04:31] so we need relelase notes for them to read through before that and either short enough that they don't skip it or attractive enough that they are interested in reading it [04:32] well, here is what I believe is going to happen... [04:32] we are going to have a live cd for kde 4 on gutsy, hardy will have kde4 in the repos, but would install just like it always has, along side of kde 3 [04:32] and hardy +1 would be kde 4 only [04:33] I believe with Hardy +1 being an LTS, we don't want to offer KDE 4.0 as an alternative right away, as it will really be nothing more than a 4.1, or a true KDE 4 pre-release [04:33] right hardy+1 is my target distro [04:33] hardy +1 is LTS as well? [04:33] crap [04:34] I think he made a typo :) [04:34] :) [04:34] does that mean I can't make him pay for it ? [04:34] ya, I made a typo [04:35] now when it comes time to dist-upgrade from 8.04 to 8.10, it would be at that time where we would need to have information, depending on how we go about doing so [04:35] nixternal: I don't think we want 4.0 as mainstream either [04:35] nixternal: right so same page [04:35] more than likely, we may follow debian a bit, as they are now installing kde4 along side of kde3 [04:36] but you get why I'm looking at it now? [04:36] which has been pretty interesting to watch...learning quite a bit from that one [04:36] like what I said last night or the other day, we somehow will have the advantage of hindsight when it comes to migrating from kde3 to 4. [04:36] we can watch while others trip and fall and scramble to be the earliest to have KDE4 by default :) [04:36] yup [04:36] * Jucato is sooo evil :D [04:36] and I love it :) [04:37] hahah [04:37] :-) [04:37] Yeah but again outside of Debian no one else really does upgrades [04:38] * Jucato_ will just play with suse later.. [04:38] heh [04:38] all other "desktop linuces" are RPM and not really versed at release -> release upgrades [04:39] So most users will be doing clean installs [04:39] which means we better learn a crap load from Debian :-) [04:39] just for the upgrade cycle [04:39] which means we need a spec for this, and a meeting soon... [04:39] which would mean after UDS [04:40] but it still doesn't help with the one section I'm looking at which is how do we inform users prior to upgrade? [04:40] which means... [04:40] Jucato: only debian based distros dist-upgrade? [04:40] only Debian has an apt-get dist-upgrade command [04:40] j/k [04:40] don't ask me, it wasn't my statement [04:40] Yeah but again outside of Debian no one else really does upgrades [04:40] red hat has a release update function i think.. [04:41] have you ever seen people do upgrades from one version of mandriva to another? [04:41] most distros do [04:41] I ran it for a long while and I never even attempted to try it [04:41] I always did a re-install [04:41] for a time, Ubuntu (specifically Kubuntu actually) was notorious for that too [04:42] I went to install the latest Fedora 8 Cd and asked if I could upgrade to the final relelase of Fedora 8 when it came out and was told no better just reinstall [04:42] that's from the testing Cd of Fedora 8 to final [04:42] ... [04:42] hang around #kubuntu during the first two or three days before and after a new release, and you'll see people's comments [04:42] Yeah but people actually attempt it in k/ubuntu and are annoyed when it fails [04:43] most other distros you are annoyed you even bothered to try in the first place [04:43] most? [04:43] interesting conversation [04:43] desktop distros :) [04:43] CPrgmSwR2: Gentoo doesn't count :-P [04:44] you've only mentioned 2 so far [04:44] Fedora/ opensuse / mandriva are the other desktop distros to watch [04:45] Got any others that people are watching to see how KDE4 turns out? [04:45] * Jucato dubs nixternal as the kuickie guy :) [04:45] Ark Linux [04:45] huh? [04:45] kuickie = quickies [04:45] still lost [04:45] PCLinuxOS [04:45] and I don't think it's fair not to consider Gentoo [04:45] oh you just swore! [04:45] nixternal: the Dot [04:46] oh [04:46] memory failing? :D [04:46] i don't really consider gentoo cause gentoo has yearly relelases and it's very much roll your own [04:46] It is what you make of it [04:46] gentoo is constantly updating though [04:47] so you don't consider Gentoo because it contradicts your statement of "only debian upgrades to new releases"? [04:47] like there really isn't a version to gentoo [04:47] that's what I mean it's a rolling distro [04:47] What version is gentoo on? [04:47] well they do have .0 and .1 releases [04:47] 2007.1 I think [04:47] which contain? [04:47] 2007.0 [04:47] oh there .0 [04:47] which contains a release [04:48] as far as I can tell a release consist of updated packages to a stage3 install [04:48] Yeah but it's timed [04:48] just because their release doesn't match Debian's concept of a release doesn't mean it can't be considered a release [04:48] what? gentoo releases are timed as well [04:48] they have no agenda for the day other than that the clock flips to 12:00 [04:48] lol [04:49] then they roll up whatever is there at that point and ship it [04:49] Thats true [04:49] and what? that's wrong? [04:50] Jucato: not really since gentoo is mainly for the linux geeks [04:50] that's not the point though [04:50] whats wrong with releasing whats there [04:50] he's pretty much confined the concept of what a release is to what Debian does [04:50] I agree that is wrong [04:51] no [04:51] Look at enlightenment [04:51] which is why he quantitatively excluded Gentoo [04:51] it's just not what gentoo does [04:51] its been in beta for what a century? [04:51] No [04:52] i'ts a century next year [04:52] oh [04:52] Jucato: Gentoo has "releases" but they are not events [04:52] O.o [04:52] excuse me? [04:53] no one gets excited about them no one waits for them to occur [04:53] right... [04:53] They are a convienece they don't mark any way points other than X time has passed [04:53] you speak for everyone right? [04:53] Everyone I know [04:53] so now, for a release to be considered a release, there must be an event? [04:53] You know people who run gentoo who only update when a new Gentoo ships? [04:53] everybody must be waiting in anticipation? [04:54] Jucato: that's what I'm defining it as [04:54] lol [04:54] you have got to be kidding me! [04:54] I know people who update their Gentoo profiles once a new release has been announced [04:54] I am sort of :) [04:55] Jucato: but do you know of anyone that waits to update/pull in new packages between release? [04:55] but the people who only do updates once a new one is relelased are pretty much the kind of people who need more info about what is happening [04:55] not true [04:55] nixternal: sub group [04:55] CPrgmSwR2: no. but gentoo profiles act much differently from just plain package updates [04:55] otherwise we wouldn't have Gentoo release parties like they have here in Chicago at UIC [04:55] oh okay [04:55] which I was surprised to find out, a lot of people are using it here now [04:55] which totally came out of left field for me [04:56] nixternal: I'm surprised there are parties :) [04:56] anyways I think it should ask you if you want to install kde4 beside kde3 or replace kde3 [04:56] one problem [04:56] CPrgmSwR2: we were talking about that earlier before this whole release discussion... [04:56] I know folks here who swear by gentoo but the only thing a new release means to them is a base line [04:56] who is going to write the app that converts all of your kde 3 settings to kde 4 settings? [04:56] [12:32] well, here is what I believe is going to happen... [04:56] [12:32] we are going to have a live cd for kde 4 on gutsy, hardy will have kde4 in the repos, but would install just like it always has, along side of kde 3 [04:56] [12:32] and hardy +1 would be kde 4 only [04:56] [12:33] I believe with Hardy being an LTS, we don't want to offer KDE 4.0 as an alternative right away, as it will really be nothing more than a 4.1, or a true KDE 4 pre-release [04:56] CPrgmSwR2: ^^^ [04:57] I thought kde4 was suppose to provide that [04:57] nixternal: I'm going on the assumption that will be partly solved by the KDE community in general [04:57] me too, but not anytime soon that I would think [04:57] I'm more concerned about getting people the info as we move forward [04:57] I am not concerned one bit [04:57] we always give them the info [04:58] and 99.9% of the time, we give them the correct info [04:58] nixternal: would it be possible to have a app in the hardy time period that delivers a countdown to a new release ? [04:58] it's up to them to actually *read* it [04:58] Well duh it;spossible [04:58] would it be wise? [04:58] dasKreech: use a website for a countdown :) [04:58] Yeah but how do we get someone to read it [04:58] and i can honestly tell you, not many people read the documentation [04:58] Okay so then the best approach is to have kde3 installed as default until kde 4.1 is release then install kde4 as default [04:59] the only people who read it besides me, are the translators [04:59] nixternal: I'm imagining for kde4 apps, settings in .kde4 should take precedence over .kde... if we'll still have that separation... [04:59] CPrgmSwR2: no that a terrible solution :) [04:59] why? [04:59] CPrgmSwR2: *if* 4.1 is released before Kubuntu 8.10 [04:59]