[00:00] ok. [00:00] nalioth, ah sorry, just removed it from towards #ubuntu and didn't think about it [00:02] gyah... i swear oo.o has got infinately slower between 2.2 and 2.3 [00:04] why is +1 +f again and why -unregged? [00:04] elkbuntu: it has because every new feature slows it down by 1 minute [00:04] gnomefreak, +f doesn't mean it *actually* forwards. [00:04] it only does if +i or +r is set [00:04] gnomefreak, yeah i know [00:05] +f means what than? [00:05] gnomefreak: it just *sets a channel* to forward to - *if* some other mode is set that causes the forwarding to actually happen [00:05] oh so if we set +r than we wouldnt have to set +f its there already [00:05] ok cool [00:05] yes [00:06] its sunday my nonthinking day === Pici- is now known as Pici [00:47] * Madpilot does /headdesk [00:47] Madpilot: whats the matter? [00:48] trying to help someone upgrade Feisty->Gutsy, and asking for 'more detail, please' gets me 'it does it's upgrade thing, then fails' [00:49] =) [00:49] actually, the exact quote was "it downloads the uprgrade thing..." [00:49] Madpilot: Are you able to remove Ubotwo from various channels that ubotu has rejoined? [00:49] probably. which channels? [00:49] #launchpad, for example. [00:49] 11:36:03 < ubotu> New bug: #158181 in launchpad "Let people ask questions without previously creating an account" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158181 [00:49] Launchpad bug 158181 in launchpad "Let people ask questions without previously creating an account" [Undecided,New] [00:50] 11:36:04 < Ubotwo> Launchpad bug 158181 in launchpad "Let people ask questions without previously creating an account" [Undecided,New] [00:50] Launchpad bug 158181 in launchpad "Let people ask questions without previously creating an account" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158181 [00:50] nope - I don't have ops there [00:50] heh [00:50] Can't you @part it, or something? [00:50] recursive bot calling. [00:50] Madpilot, i can sort it [00:50] Fujitsu, ^ [00:50] PriceChild: Thanks. [00:51] I thought L*j*L already did a flurry of that this morning [00:51] * jdong checks whois [00:51] jdong: sirss [00:52] Tm_T: who? [00:53] jdong: hug me [00:53] PriceChild: you got it? [00:53] * jdong hugs Tm_T [00:53] jdong, hmm? [00:53] jdong: big thank you [00:54] PriceChild: parting ubotwo? [00:54] yeah i have @join,part on it [00:54] PriceChild: mmkay, then I'm back to starcraft :) [00:54] (shut up about asianness) [00:54] :O You're the only one who's ever made jokes about that! :) [00:55] Thankyou very much. [00:55] asia? [00:55] I am psychic :) [00:55] i didn't part ubotwo from everywhere because i didn't see ubotu joining [00:56] anyway ubotwo should be able to be kicked and not rejoin [00:56] jdong, so can you by the way [00:56] yeah, I noticed that, a bit of disjointness (#ubuntustudio and others) [00:56] LjL: indeed, but master Pricey said he got it covered :) [00:57] overlords and kittens [02:36] astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu [03:22] astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu [03:25] dealt wtih [03:25] with, even [03:25] driveby [05:29] @btlogin [05:34] sleeep [05:36] someday [07:49] buttercups called the ops in #ubuntu [07:49] Evanlec called the ops in #ubuntu [07:50] elkbuntu: dare I ask what it was? [07:50] i didnt go to it, i was eww'ing at the mess [07:50] ah [07:51] Any improvements in your life this week? [07:57] * rob wonders why installing fam wants to uninstall half of his desktop [08:16] did we find the UDS channel yet? [08:17] yes [08:17] #uds-boston .. [08:17] ty [08:21] gnomefreak, they are not awake yet methinks :) [08:22] i know same time zone ;) [08:22] gnomefreak, never would have guessed :) [10:11] there is #FOSSCamp too which seems to be related [10:11] im there [10:11] :) [10:11] * rob wonders what "Please point your sources.list at archive.ubuntu.com" is about [10:11] * gnomefreak waiting for email so i can go back to bed [10:11] rob: devels to upgrade maybe? [10:12] during the conference? [10:12] it hasnt started so i really dont know ;) [10:14] "point sources.list to archive.ubuntu.com for non-opaque proxy happyness" [10:14] * rob wonders what non-opaque proxy happyness is [10:16] fosscamp was until today which is uds [10:17] who knows [10:53] rob: non-opaque == transparent. They're running a transparent proxy locally, caching archive.ubuntu.com, to hopefully relieve some of the load from their slow connection in Boston. [10:57] what the? #ubuntu is dead... weird... [10:58] Ive never seen so little activity in there... [10:59] jussi01: Woah, yes. [11:00] No real activity in almost half an hour. [11:00] I wonder whats going on... [11:00] "nothing" [11:01] in both senses of the word [11:03] PriceChild: hehe... === GazzaK is now known as Gary [14:33] ljl: so carrying on in here; the flood protection should bump people to something other than #ubuntu-unregged [14:33] and the unregged "protection" can bounce people to -unregged [14:34] hi sladen [14:34] sladen: why? registering is a good idea for anyone, anyway... and if someone gets +J-forwarded, it often means that there is a botnet attack in progress, so they should definitely register, because the channel will be +R [14:34] we can't set a different forward for +r and +J though. [14:34] that, too. [14:35] If someone finds there way into -unregged who is already registered.... if they have any nouse they'll try joining #ubuntu again and succeed. [14:35] sladen: no, +J doesn't *really* check if you're identified or not, it just forwards you into here if there are too many joins [14:35] sladen: i could just tell people to "please try again join #ubuntu" instead of "please register and join #ubuntu" like i did, but why lose the change to get some more users to actually register? [14:35] sladen: yes, and "too many joins", if +J is well-tuned, usually means a bot attack. [14:36] s/change/chance/ [14:36] as you've noted, botnets can register people too [14:36] so there's two different issues: [14:36] but most don't as its a hassle and gets spotted [14:36] yes we use -unregged for two things... [14:37] (a) what to do when there are many people joining in 10seconds (possible when there's a botnet flodding, or when there are 150 people reconnecting from the same conference after the wifi comes back up) [14:37] sladen: anyway as PriceChild said, there is a *technical* limitation that doesn't allow us to use two different channels for the two "types" of forwarding. so no matter how long we discuss the relative merits of either approach... that technical limitation remains [14:37] (b) asking people to register, so that the same nick always will be the same person [14:38] sladen: well, what we currently do is ask people to *register anyway* (unless they aren't already, i should have mentioned that perhaps, granted), and then rejoin [14:38] LjL, unless we want slower responses to botnets by normally having +f #ubuntu-tryagain and then setting +rRf #ubuntu-unregged when needed. [14:38] it won't hurt to register, will it? it's two nickserv commands [14:38] so lets fix the technical limitation. (Ubuntu is the main user of Freenode) [14:38] two [14:38] possibly one [14:39] PriceChild: but [14:39] (which sounds silly to me) [14:39] PriceChild: but *while* +R is set, and +J is also set, people will be forwarded to -unregged anyway [14:39] and in the mean time fix it with the documentation "you could have come to -unregged for two reasons: either you joined during a botnet attack, or your nick is not registered" [14:40] Could I point out that 3 people *seem* to have been caught by +J in half a month.... and as it happens none of them actually wanted to use #ubuntu really... they've just idled :/ [14:41] and in the meantime, I can't remember a single "reasonably sized" botnet in #ubuntu... [14:41] just one person jobs [14:41] while they have attacked freenode servers in their thousands in other channels [14:41] PriceChild: ehm, i'm not sure of the latter, but anyway [14:41] there was definitely a colossal botnet a few days ago.... [14:42] didn't see a trace of it in #ubuntu [14:42] PriceChild: no, that one didn't try #ubuntu [14:42] Couldn't hurt to add a line to -unregged's topic saying "if you are already registered, please check you're identified they /join #ubuntu again" [14:42] not that people read topics... [14:43] PriceChild: i've added something similar, though less detailed [14:44] /topic If you haven't already, then please register your nickname to join #ubuntu - We are experiencing technical difficulties. Instructions at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup (the commands explained there must be typed in your IRC program's status window, or if you don't have that, here - Use « /join #ubuntu » to eventually join the support channel) [14:54] LjL: the heavyweight IRC users are reading by highlights, rather than /reading/ a channel [14:54] LjL: groovy [14:54] sladen: true, but what are you trying to say with that? [14:56] LjL: that the IRC client needs to be able to reliably rejoin a channel that it thinks it should be connected to [14:56] LjL: the redirect is breaking that [14:56] sladen: when joining #ubuntu-unregged, a NOTICE is automatically sent. that triggers a highlight on most clients, i think. [14:57] LjL: when a redirect happens, it would be useful to 'prefix:' the person and warn them that something has been messing with how IRC has worked for 18yeas [14:57] sladen: and, as you've just seen, we do ping users who are in -unregged manually when we notice [14:58] LjL: yup, which is useful, I wouldn't have known otherwise [14:58] sladen: that could be done automatically by the bot, in theory, but it would be very easy for malicious people to exploit it in order to flood the bot... i suppose we can consider that option, though [15:01] ubotu join #uds-boston [15:02] ? [15:02] LjL, how do I get it to do that? [15:02] ebirtaid called the ops in #ubuntu [15:03] ompaul, you can't if you aren't an admin on it... [15:03] ahh [15:03] right so [15:04] we need it to can you get it to [15:04] ompaul: no. i can join ubotwo though [15:04] please do I will give it a factoid [15:04] ompaul: please type also /msg ubotwo register ompaul password - i've lost my user list [15:05] ompaul: ok you can join/part ubotwo yourself now (i've made it join #uds-boston already though) [15:05] * LjL is away noe [15:06] see that thanks [15:07] LjL, tell it I am an editor please [15:07] Ubotwo: addedito ompaul [15:07] Ubotwo: addeditor ompaul [15:07] %addeditor [15:07] Invalid arguments for addeditor. [15:08] methinks it is not the same [15:08] anyway in #ubuntu or ubuntu-devel [15:08] do this [15:19] no0tic: can we help you? [15:19] * no0tic is an -it op [15:33] no0tic: ha, just noticed I still have the trigger on [15:33] ───── [15:33] 11:19 <+jdong> no0tic: can we help you? [15:33] 11:19 -!- no0tic [i=no0tic@unaffiliated/no0tic] has joined #ubuntu-ops [15:57] kane77 called the ops in #ubuntu [19:39] http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071029/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_germany_halloween;_ylt=AtQm3mtzPHmWHPfs_V7d2K.s0NUE [19:49] !test [19:49] Failed. [19:59] stdin: hello? [20:10] Hi.. i just noticed the !vmware factoid is outdated. vmware-player was taken away from the repos (was old and had a security leak) so it's no longer in the repos. Someone should change that and put a link instead, or so [20:10] !vmware [20:10] VMWare Player is in Ubuntu's !Multiverse repository (package "vmware-player"), and http://www.easyvmx.com/easyvmx.shtml can create VMs for it. For VMWare Server, instructions can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware - See also !virtualizers [20:10] no longer true [20:11] stefg: suggest a new one? [20:12] ermmm.... d/l from vmware, get build-essentials and install manually ? ... too much for a factoid [20:12] lemme see .... [20:18] hmmm ... the trouble is you need to build the kernel modules, and that requires manually putting a symlink linux in /usr/src to the kernel-headers. Can't find a howto to link to yet [20:20] just remove the outdated part, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware should contain install instructions [20:20] so https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Player is outdated, too [20:21] it is? [20:21] stefg: update it =) [20:22] Not a native speaker. i'd do in german, but my written english .... omg [20:22] stefg: well bad english is better than false guides [20:22] heh [20:22] stefg: so please do :) [20:23] !info vmware-player feisty [20:24] vmware-player: Free virtual machine player from VMware. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1.0.2-2 (feisty), package size 11602 kB, installed size 31336 kB (Only available for i386 amd64) [20:24] ah... so that's only true for gutsy+ [20:33] ompaul: didn't see you there [20:34] ikonia,been here most weekend [20:34] we had a long weekend here this one - so :) [20:34] happy days [20:34] ahhh right [20:34] everything ok ? [20:37] yeap [20:38] mega [20:48] errr [20:49] !ping [20:49] pong [20:49] bantracker is down? [20:49] and just when I say it, its alive =) [20:52] stefg: are you sure it isn't in canonical's Commercial, or vmware itself doesn't have a package, or something? [20:54] hm kind of seems not [20:55] and afaik the any-any patch is needed on gutsy also... [20:58] ebirtaid called the ops in #ubuntu [21:00] 2300 -!- MilesG [n=miles@d60-65-93-136.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #kubuntu [""im going to go cry, thanks Tm_T""] [21:00] Tm_T: what did you do??? [21:00] only counts when he comes in here to complain about you [21:01] nice try, though. :) [21:01] 2259 < Tm_T> MilesG: please stop your random noise [21:01] hehe [21:12] jussi01, LjL , afaik, vmplayer 2 compiles withou any-any . only 2.6.23.1 requires it again [21:13] stefg: ahh, nice to know. [21:13] boys, am I being dumb in wondering why help.ubuntu.com doesn't have the 7.10 docs up ? [21:15] ikonia: uintil i know otherwise, i'm assuming it',s because of something you did [21:15] thats fair, I'll carry the can [21:16] woo! back to blissful ignorance! [21:16] thanks, dude. [21:16] :) [21:16] no sweat [21:16] worth logging a bug ? [21:16] or perhaps worth whispering in someones ear [21:17] what team is responsible for help.ubuntu.com ? [21:19] ikonia, it does not have 7.10 docs [21:19] ikonia: docteam? [21:19] mneptok, ^^ bug confirmed :) [21:19] * ompaul rusn [21:19] then [21:19] * ompaul runs [21:20] seems a bit slack, compared to normal release to release with out docs [21:20] I'm sure they are aware but I'll search for an official bug first. thanks [21:21] ikonia, #ubuntu-docs methinks [21:21] gratzi [21:21] * ompaul hopes his memory is right [21:22] nope - channel doesn't exist [21:22] drop the s [21:22] sorry [21:22] well done [21:24] if there's an #ubuntu-doc, then i'm *definitely* starting #ubuntu-grumpy [21:29] mneptok: register that bad boy [21:29] #ubuntu-doc exists and has nice guys in [21:31] I'd be interested in join #ubuntu-grumpy [21:32] #ubuntu-sleepy FTW [21:32] nah, you'd get all the "noobs" from #ubuntu-grumpy complaining that no-one is ever awake [21:33] #ubuntu-snowwhite [21:33] neh, mneptok will want to hog #ubuntu-cinderella [21:34] you shall go to the lug [21:34] #ubuntu-disney-copyright-violation [21:34] hahahah [21:34] ha ha [21:34] :( [21:34] http://www.unhappybirthday.com/ [21:34] walts boys have no cash to come after you ! [21:34] its a free for all [21:37] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo [21:39] Host 'snowwhite', running Linux 2.6.20-16-server - Cpu0: Intel 2660 MHz Cpu1: Intel 2660 MHz Cpu2: Intel 2660 MHz Cpu3: Intel 2660 MHz; Up: 43d+23:18; Users: 4; Load: 0.21; Free: [Mem: 227/16241 Mio] [Swap: 1906/1906 Mio] [: / Mio] [/boot: 172/236 Mio]; Vpenis: 688 cm; [21:39] check that hostname, kiddos :) [21:41] do you have a disney "problem" [21:45] whoooaaa "bf - a fast brainfuck interperater" [21:45] while I appriciate "brainfuck" does that not seem odd for ubuntu to host in a repo ? [21:45] ikonia: why would it? [21:46] the name [21:46] its a valid program [21:46] totally [21:46] and I appriciate brainfuck is not "fuck" [21:46] but seems a tad odd [21:47] hmm [21:47] maybe I'm reading too much into it [21:47] just caught me off guard while updating my laptop [21:48] * Seeker` wrote a brainfuck interpreter [21:48] ikonia, some words are to be avoided in the *ubuntu channels*, but that says nothing about what package names allowed in the repositories... [21:48] Seeker`, called beef? [21:48] LjL: I see, but for example would dicussion on brainfuck get me a slap on the wrist in #ubuntu [21:48] ompaul: no [21:49] ikonia, I would suggest that we should cease and desist before we have to find out [21:49] please someone enlighten me as to what exactly brainfuck is? [21:49] ikonia: if you ask me, that's a resounding NO. actually i often used brainfuck as an example of the fact that we aren't censoring sequences of letters per se, but the way they're used [21:49] ahhh sorry, wasn't testing the water [21:49] apt-cache search brainfuck [21:49] just curious as while the name is "valid" it seems a tad odd for ubuntu to "allow" it due to the coc [21:49] jussi01: An esoteric programming langugae [21:49] jussi01, ^^ [21:49] jussi01: a little programming language that sort of resembles a more brainfucking version of a turing machine [21:50] jussi01: it consists of "<>+-.,[]" [21:50] ahhh, sounds fun... [21:50] * ompaul goes back to writing the document that should have been written ages ago. [21:50] jussi01: its virtually unreadable [21:50] was it in fesity, I didn't notice it, as I said, just caught me off guard updating the laptop [21:51] ikonia, CoC != IRC guidelines. the CoC says to "be respectful", but respecting the wish of the creator of brainfuck to call it that is a form of respect too [21:51] jussi01: people have written programs to print out ascii fractals [21:51] LjL: thats a very fair comment [21:52] however the use of "offensive" language is in the coc, and well, seems a bit of a stretch on the word "Brain fuck" [21:52] not got a problem with it [21:52] just chatting [21:52] I assume I'm not causing offense [21:52] ikonia, at this stage it is highlighting my irc too regularly :) [21:52] then its stopped [21:52] I'll refer to "BF" [21:52] :) call it bf [21:53] thanks [21:53] no problem, I forgot about highlighting [21:53] I am trying to write up my comments for tomorrows review [21:53] ikonia: ehm actually where is that in the coc? [21:53] the dings from BF must be distracting [21:53] they are [21:53] back to it [21:53] LjL: hang on, let me have a mooch I may be wrong, just quoting from memory [21:53] perhaps I'm mixing up IRC guidelines and the COC [21:54] the CoC does'nt reference bad language directly (from what I remember) [21:54] ikonia: i suspect you are [21:54] which is why we had probles deciding what language to allow in -uk [21:54] you could be right, I'm just quoting from memory [21:54] ikonia: s/memory/imagination :) [21:54] I suppose you could argue in "uk" that "git" could be considered offensive [21:55] Seeker`: tottally [21:55] :( [21:55] we basically decided that language up to a point that isn't directed at anyone is ok, otherwise it isn;t [21:56] there are a few products that I guess could cause issues moderating [21:56] ikonia: anyway, what to say about the 'pornview' package? i mean, i suppose there is no swearword there, but :) [21:56] point taken [21:58] "pimppa - powerful tool to loot binaries from newsgroups smartly" ← slang for female genitals in Finnish. Just a data point :] [21:58] of course i only know that package because i stumbled upon it during random apt searches [21:58] LjL: too late to back track [21:58] i mean, i'd never use a GTK application to view images [21:59] mjr: then what about another binary newsgroup fetcher, "klibido"? [22:00] Seeker`, seems reasonable to me [22:00] Hi rob. I'm interested in registering #ubuntu-gamers, however, the person who registered hasn't showed up in 2 years. [22:01] dunno if he talked to any of you guys [22:01] rob: just request it get de-listed [22:02] ikonia, well it is up to the Ubuntu group contact what they want to do with it, so I'm looking at you irc council members :) [22:02] ahhh so its registered by an ubuntu member [22:02] sorry, I thought you where saying it was A-N Random [22:02] ikonia, no, it's in the ubuntu namespace [22:02] so it's "our territory" [22:02] yes, Ubuntu namespace :) [22:02] my mistake [22:03] rob: he didn't talk to me. i'm not particularly in favor of registering obscure #ubuntu* channels without really making sure creating those channel is legitimate, anyway - although it appears that this particular one is registered already... [22:04] LjL, there's nothing really against registering. The channel is now empty with a contact that's not available. Qualifies for removing registration after which it's fair game :) [22:04] LjL, yes it is but the registeree hasn't been seen in some time and he wants to take over it, so I'm running it by here first. I'm assuming the irc council should be taking over it directly and maybe assigning him ops if they want. [22:06] either way, ubuntu namespace = your channels, so I'm doing you all the courtesy of deciding what you want to do with it [22:06] rather then just giving it to him :) [22:06] :) [22:07] I don't object against giving it away, but I'm almost no longer council :) [22:08] Seveas, but was that channel *ever* an official channel? i don't think so. it's certainly not listed on the wiki at the very least. people *do* have the option of using ## channels for unofficial stuff, don't they? [22:09] What's up? :/ [22:09] PriceChild: Hi rob. I'm interested in registering #ubuntu-gamers, however, the person who registered hasn't showed up in 2 years. [22:09] PriceChild: the sky [22:09] Seeker`: hope it isn't raining then [22:10] LjL: not at the moment [22:10] hmm, actually, i may go try to find a comet [22:10] ty ljl [22:10] LjL, they do but why not be liberal in allowing people to create channels in the #ubuntu namespace? [22:11] they do so anyway, so why not allow this registration to be dropped according to freenode guidelines for dropping channels and make it available [22:11] i don't have a problem with #ubuntu-whatever, so long as it's run in accordance with the CoC and !guidelines [22:11] astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu [22:13] my thought is that if a Ubuntu member has some legitimate ubuntu-related use for a #ubuntu- channel, why not let him at least use it with ops (registered to the council) or even let him register it. [22:13] Seveas, they do so, but nalioth for instance has been hunting for unofficial channels a few times. actually i agree with what he just said - if it's in the #ubuntu namespace, it should *somewhat* be a sane Ubuntu-like channel IMHO. remember *cough* all the #ubuntu-offtopic variations that have been created in the past? [22:14] LjL, true, but that's not really the case here [22:14] rob: i hadn't checked whether he was an ubuntu member. i saw that the *current* contact didn't have a cloak last time he joined [22:14] LjL, markuman left the ubuntu community a long time ago [22:15] i see [22:15] gouki is an active community member, possibly ubuntu member as well [22:15] he is a member [22:15] Seveas: yes, he is a member, i checked now [22:15] that makes it a no-brainer to me [22:15] markuman was xubuntu owner iirc he ended up giving it to crimson [22:16] crimsun [22:16] let's have him enjoy his latest project :) [22:16] gnomefreak, yup [22:16] over a year ago iirc [22:16] yep [22:16] rob: you can drop the current registration as far as i'm concerned [22:16] nalioth, any objections? [22:16] ok dinner [22:17] rob: whatever is easier. drop or assign ownership [22:17] nalioth, seeing as he is no longer online, I'll just do the latter [22:17] yeah [22:17] i think i wouldn't be so sure about it if it weren't an ubuntu member though [22:18] #ubuntu-gaming is registered my markuman too btw [22:18] #ubuntu-games is register by eleaf [22:18] okay done [22:19] eleaf.... [22:19] sounds familiar [22:19] PriceChild: even too much so, doesn't it? [22:19] good familiar or bad familiar... [22:19] PriceChild: bad familiar [22:19] :/ [22:19] i don't know, for some reason when i think "familiar" on IRC i always think "bad familiar" [22:19] eleaf is not a ubuntu member, has several #ubuntu- channels registered [22:19] there are dozens of #ubuntu* channels out there [22:19] LjL, mhmm [22:19] yeah [22:19] so long as no problems are coming from them . . . [22:20] most of them have 0 users [22:20] yeah... [22:20] most of them have 0 interest [22:21] nalioth: can we take them over just for fun? [22:21] Tm_T: i personally don't have fun doing it... [22:21]