[00:01] <proppy> hi
[00:02] <proppy> Mez: ping
[00:03] <Fujitsu> 10:41:06 < Mez> (am going bed now)
[00:03] <proppy> Fujitsu: too late :)
[00:04] <proppy> Fujitsu: I noticed he uploaded a package on revu I was working on, maybe we should coordinate a bit :)
[00:04] <proppy> !log
[00:04] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
[00:05] <Mez> proppy, mez@ubuntu.com
[00:06] <proppy> Mez: bug #129081
[00:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
[00:07] <Mez> *shrugs was a personal ptojeect of mine
[00:08] <proppy> Mez: I just want to share, the very little I've done so far
[00:09] <proppy> Mez: feel free to take over it :)
[00:09] <Mez> proppy, i did look over your upload breifly, but it looked very similar to the evil of the svn debian dir ;)
[00:10] <proppy> Mez: you can take a look at the latest generated package at http://mumble.aminche.com/
[00:10] <proppy> Mez: mercurial repo here: http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/
[00:10] <proppy> Mez: yep, it's a mentoring thing, so I take little tiny tiny steps
[00:11] <proppy> Mez: I've done only what norsetto (my mentor) told me to do on the REVU comments
[00:11]  * Mez srhrugs sorry if I'm treading on toes ...  
[00:12] <Mez> but I notices stuff like
[00:12] <proppy> Mez: so you're likely to be way more faster that me on this
[00:12] <Mez> $(CURDIR)/debian/mumble/usr/bin
[00:12] <Mez> sorry
[00:12] <Mez> 	install -d $(CURDIR)/debian/mumble/usr/bin
[00:12] <Mez> which can easily be done with *.dirs
[00:12] <proppy> Mez: and there is plenty of mentorable out there bug I can work one
[00:12] <Mez> proppy, I#'ll happily let you do it if you want
[00:13] <Mez> or mentor you
[00:13] <pyc> hi noob question, hi do I enable the debugging symbols on the package?
[00:13] <Mez> it's just i put that package together for a project (cause we use it for radio amarok)
[00:13] <proppy> Mez: I didn't get that far, I was working on the license issue
[00:13] <proppy> Mez: I thought when I was looking at the upstream supplied rules for the first time, that I wanted to get cdbs qmake a try
[00:14] <Mez> proppy, not with this - cdbswont handle it i think
[00:15] <proppy> Mez: I think i've seen you before on #ubuntu-studio,
[00:15] <proppy> Mez: but I may be wrong
[00:15] <Mez> possibly
[00:15] <Mez> I'm always around
[00:16] <proppy> Mez: btw packaging mumble is not personnal for me, It's my first officially mentored thing
[00:16] <Mez> ah sorry for stepping on toes then
[00:17] <proppy> Mez: I will be glad to help you in any case, but my guess is that my speed on this, is not going to meet your expectation
[00:17] <proppy> Mez: from watching you packaging it, I can learn a lot too
[00:17] <Mez> proppy, I just put that package together in like - a half hour... didnt really think too mcuh about stepping on toes, it's needed for radio amarok ... so *shrugs*
[00:18] <Mez> but I need my sleeps
[00:18] <Mez> night
[00:18] <proppy> Mez: np have a good night :)
[00:18] <proppy> Mez: feel free to join the bug report :)
[00:18] <blueyed> pyc: are you referring to installing -dbgsym packages? Or creating them?
[00:18] <pyc> creating them, i guess
[00:19] <pyc> i looked at the rules file
[00:19] <pyc> and i already exported the "nostrip" in the environment variables
[00:20] <pyc> but after rebuilding the package, it still has the same file size
[00:20] <azeem> pyc: how do you build it?
[00:21] <pyc> probably the basic build? dpkg-buildpackage - b -uc -rfakeroot
[00:21] <azeem> ok
[00:22] <pyc> ah ok, let me see, if i have my own problem ;)
[00:23] <pyc> i commented the dh_strip
[00:23] <pyc> so that it will not do the stripping, but i'm treading on unknown grounds here.
[00:29] <blueyed> Does KDE use /usr/lib/mime/packages? It seems to ignore /usr/lib/mime/packages/dia. Does KDE only use .desktop files?
[00:35] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:02] <ryanakca> hmm... if you have a "Replaces: libopenbabel1", do you really need a "Conflicts: libopenbabel1"?
[01:07] <azeem> are you merging openbabel?
[01:08] <ryanakca> yes
[01:09] <TheMuso_Boston> ryanakca: Thought of getting them into Debian first?
[01:09] <azeem> what is "them"?
[01:09] <ryanakca> ?
[01:09] <azeem> ryanakca: actually, I think Debian should drop the Replaces as well
[01:09] <azeem> also, I wonder why the Ubuntu package is 14MB
[01:10]  * ryanakca shrugs.
[01:10] <azeem> while the Debian package is less than 3MB
[01:10] <TheMuso_Boston> azeem: I don't know what Ubuntu changes there are, but this cycle, I am trying to encourage getting changes into Debian first.
[01:10] <ryanakca> But, am I correct in saying that I don't need a conflicts if I already have a replaces?
[01:11] <azeem> ryanakca: depends, replaces can just mean "has the same file as this other package"
[01:11] <azeem> replace/conflicts usually means "install this one in favour of the other", I think
[01:13] <ryanakca> So, what are you saying. Do I leave replace/conflicts, or just Replaces as in debian.
[01:13]  * ryanakca is considering just going for what Debian has
[01:13] <azeem> ryanakca: as I said, I think debian should drop the Replaces as well
[01:14] <azeem> because, contrary to Ubuntu, there's no file overlap to libopenbabel1 I believe
[01:15] <azeem> ah, Ubuntu ships the static version of all the plugins
[01:15] <azeem> ... in the shared library package
[01:19] <TheMuso_Boston> Ouch.
[01:19] <TheMuso_Boston> Who made that crackful change?
[01:20] <azeem> well, maybe Debian did that before as well, don't remember
[01:20] <TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: I'll get back to you on that review very shortly. Gotta remotely fix a family box.
[01:21] <azeem> ryanakca: I'll upload a new openbabel to Debian tomorrow, dropping that Replaces, I suggest just syncing that then
[01:21] <azeem> I hope nothing in Ubuntu was using libinchi
[01:31] <azeem> ryanakca: indeed, the difference is that on Debian, apt-get install libopenbabel2 will not remove libopenbabel1
[01:31] <azeem> I assume this is the case on Ubuntu
[01:47] <ryanakca> azeem: ok
[01:47] <ryanakca> azeem: thanks
[01:47] <ryanakca> nixternal: ^^
[01:52] <g2g591> would anyone mind reviewing my package of tightvnc 1.3.9? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=468
[02:21] <superm1_> hey TheMuso i just returned if you are still here.
[02:24] <Hobbsee> superm1_: hows' it going?
[02:24] <superm1_> hey Hobbsee
[02:24] <superm1_> pretty good :)
[02:25] <superm1_> just returned from the pub with the regulars
[02:25] <Hobbsee> nice :)
[02:25] <crimsun_> the asagard?
[02:25] <ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
[02:25] <superm1_> why aren't you out here this time around?
[02:25] <superm1_> yeah crimsun_
[02:25] <Hobbsee> superm1_: i got invoted, but am doing a fairly complex subject at uni (that i'm not liking), so thought i should stay and at least attempt to pass it
[02:27] <superm1_> ah i see.  well there is always 6 months from now at the next UDS.
[02:27] <superm1_> hopefully you pass and can make the next one then :)
[02:27] <superm1_> crimsun_, did you not make it out this evening?
[02:28] <crimsun_> superm1_: I flew home at 4:30
[02:28] <superm1_> crimsun_, oh right, i forgot you were leaving today
[02:28] <tritium> Hi crimsun_, superm1_, Hobbsee, ajmitch.
[02:29] <crimsun_> 'lo tritium
[02:29] <superm1_> hey tritium
[02:29] <ajmitch> hi tritium
[02:29] <bddebian> Heya tritium, crimsun_, superm1_, Hobbsee, ajmitch... :-)
[02:29]  * ajmitch sighs
[02:29]  * bddebian wins
[02:29] <Hobbsee> hiya tritium, bddebian
[02:29] <tritium> Hey there bddebian.  Didn't see you there :)
[02:29] <bddebian> I'm hiding from ajmitch ;-)
[02:29] <Hobbsee> superm1_: that's what i said - give me an invite in 6 months, and i'll be there!
[02:29] <ajmitch> bddebian: don't worry, Hobbsee is as well :P
[02:30] <bddebian> heh
[02:30] <superm1_> hehe
[02:30] <tritium> Where will the location be next time?
[02:31] <superm1_> they haven't announced yet
[02:31] <superm1_> bryce, you still up?
[02:31] <tritium> superm1_: great job on mythbuntu :)
[02:32] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: another one bites the dust, hey?
[02:32] <tritium> crimsun_: how's the new job?
[02:32] <superm1_> bryce, it looks like multi-monitor-config is set to go tomorrow again looking at my schedule?  is that a mistake in the scheduler?
[02:32] <superm1_> tritium, thanks, glad that its finally hit release :)
[02:32] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: excuse me?
[02:33] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: u-u-s.  they're dropping like flies.
[02:33] <ajmitch> I never did anything, it was an empty membership
[02:33] <crimsun_> bddebian: heya
[02:34] <crimsun_> tritium: pretty hectic; had to cut short my UDS stay
[02:34] <tritium> I can sympathize...
[02:35] <superm1_> crimsun_, did you sort out that alsa stuff you were rushing earlier today?
[02:35] <crimsun_> superm1_: yeah
[02:36] <superm1_> that's good since no one else will touch it for months now... hopefully you didn't break too much ;)
[02:36] <crimsun_> you'll know if the archive collapses :-)
[02:36] <bddebian> heh
[02:39] <gouki> Has anyone ever thought of CIA to #ubuntu-motu? (cia.vc)
[02:41] <superm1_> gouki, that would probably add a lot of (unnecessary) spam to the channel with how much a lot of use version control systems
[02:42] <gouki> superm1_: yeah, you're probably right. Just and idea, though :)
[02:45] <gouki> It's still fun to see development on #commits, superm1_ :)
[02:46] <Ahmuck> ok, i asked about development of packages once, but could someone point me to the url again?
[02:58] <Hobbsee> !packagingguide
[02:58] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[03:38] <joejaxx> this channel is quiet :D
[03:38] <Burgundavia> it is the middle of night, Boston time
[03:38] <Burgundavia> large numbers of active MOTUs are in Boston
[03:39] <joejaxx> Burgundavia: :P
[03:44] <TheMuso_Boston> Yet it is approaching mid afternoon in Australia, eastern seaboard.
[03:44] <ajmitch> yes, but the active MOTUs are in boston, right?
[03:46] <TheMuso_Boston> ajmitch: Yes, but there are also active MOTUs elsewhere in the world, for example Hobbsee, and persia.
[03:46] <TheMuso_Boston> BTW, we got to meet crimsun_.
[03:46] <joejaxx> its ajmitch :)
[03:47] <ajmitch> joejaxx: no it's not
[03:49] <joejaxx> ;P
[03:50] <superm1_> there are other MOTUs then us?
[03:50] <superm1_> no, couldnt be!
[03:50]  * bddebian still doesn't know what he is
[03:50]  * ajmitch knows that he's not a MOTU
[03:50] <joejaxx> lol
[03:51]  * joejaxx is not a motu
[03:52] <TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: Just a comment or two on revu for your package.
[03:52] <TheMuso_Boston> Since you're here, I may as well tell you.
[03:52] <TheMuso_Boston> I see you've fixed the cdbs stuff, and added the homepage. I would also add the year of the copyright for the source in debian/copyright.
[03:52] <superm1_> TheMuso_Boston, okay cool will take care of it, nothing else major right?
[03:52] <TheMuso_Boston> Which appears to be 2005.
[03:52] <TheMuso_Boston> Looks fine to me, builds and installs cleanly.
[03:53] <superm1_> okay thanks :)
[03:53] <TheMuso_Boston> np
[03:55] <TheMuso_Boston> I'm off for the night. Night folks, see those of you in Boston tomorrow.
[03:56] <superm1_> TheMuso_Boston, i'm going to work with siretart to get this and the other plugin into debian too :)
[03:56] <superm1_> thanks again, see ya tomorrow
[03:56] <TheMuso_Boston> Np, see you tomorrow.
[03:58] <joejaxx> B[B?O2A[34;2~ZX"S[33;2~Cccccccc 89;0m9[B[C
[03:58] <Ahmuck> joejaxx: ?
[03:58] <joejaxx> sorry _MMA_ was fooling around on my 770
[03:58] <joejaxx> :P
[04:27] <white> Fujitsu: how are exams going?
[04:45] <firefly2442> Is there a page where people can submit suggestions for future packages?
[04:46] <firefly2442> The package is already in the universe but could use an upgrade to the latest version
[04:46] <firefly2442> I would try myself but I'm still trying to read through and learn packaging :)
[04:47] <imbrandon> firefly2442, what package ?
[04:47] <firefly2442> phpsysinfo
[04:48] <imbrandon> i'll take a peek at it, i use that myself at times
[04:48] <imbrandon> normaly you would just use wiki.u.c/IdeaPool
[04:49] <firefly2442> ok thanks :)
[04:50] <santiago-ve> imbrandon, speaking about packages... do you know if there's a php compiled to be embedded? (with the --enable-embed option)... i am trying to debianize a plphp install
[04:50] <white> firefly2442: packaging is overrated, download and compile from source ;)
[04:51] <santiago-ve> compile a php app? xD
[04:52] <imbrandon> santiago-ve, no idea to be honest, i only mess with php on the web/server side
[04:53] <santiago-ve> hmm
[04:53] <firefly2442> white: I *heart* deb packages ;)
[04:54] <white> ah well
[05:39] <imbrandon> firefly2442, i got phpsysinfo 2.5.4 packaged and working, i'll upload it to hardy soon
[05:39] <firefly2442> imbrandon: wow you're quick! thanks :)
[05:40] <firefly2442> imbrandon: is the Gutsy phpsysinfo package frozen or only changed for security issues?
[05:41] <imbrandon> yes, i might be able to push a -backport ( but those arent installed by default )
[05:42] <firefly2442> imbrandon: do you create the packages by hand or do you use one of the helper programs?
[05:43] <imbrandon> i just updated the existing package
[05:43] <imbrandon> but mostly i use cdbs when making new packages
[05:43] <firefly2442> imbrandon: I'm just curious because I heard there are some that believe doing it by hand is better
[05:44] <firefly2442> but it makes sense to me to use a tool, just speeding up the process :)
[05:44] <imbrandon> just a matter of choice
[05:44] <firefly2442> sure
[05:44] <imbrandon> if you use a tool you still ned to know what its doing under the hood
[05:46] <imbrandon> ok uploaded to hardy, should build soonish
[05:46] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: For values of soon greater than a week.
[05:46] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, hehe yea
[05:46] <firefly2442> cool, I'll keep working on trying to read up on packaging :)
[05:46] <firefly2442> bedtime for me, later all
[05:47] <imbrandon> firefly2442, if you wish i can push the package i built localy to my website if you wish to use it on gutsy personaly
[05:47] <imbrandon> ok
[05:47] <Ahmuck> :-p
[05:48] <imbrandon> hows it hangin Fujitsu
[05:52] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Not too bad, but I've got exams starting in a couple of days, so not much Ubuntu stuff is happening at the moment.
[05:52] <Fujitsu> white: ^^
[05:54] <white> Fujitsu: go offline and study ;)
[05:55] <Fujitsu> white: Never!
[05:55] <white> hehe
[06:23] <imbrandon> i wonder how much breakage dapper --> gutsy would cause
[06:24] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: It should be recoverable, if you really know what you're doing.
[06:24] <imbrandon> i hate to site though multi upgrades on that machine, i might try it, worst case i have to reload
[06:25] <imbrandon> well phpsysinfo 2.5.4 seems to work good, http://www.imbrandon.com/phpsysinfo/
[06:26] <imbrandon> i might try 3.0rc3 in my ppa for giggles, but the templates need to be updated , ugh
[07:13] <Fujitsu> Oh, you can't be serious. More langpacks.
[07:14] <imbrandon> ugh cant they be built on a seperate server
[07:14] <imbrandon> lol
[07:15] <Fujitsu> You'd think so.
[07:15] <imbrandon> we should have an arch_all server just for building arch_all packages
[07:15] <Fujitsu> But nooo, there goes another 48 hours of buildd time.
[07:15] <Fujitsu> Less than 24 hours after the last backlog cleared.
[07:15] <imbrandon> whats that url to see the queues , not on LP
[07:16] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue?
[07:17] <imbrandon> yea
[07:33] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, hey
[07:33] <imbrandon> rember when you made that lpusers.py ?
[07:35] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yeah.
[07:35] <Fujitsu> What about it?
[07:36] <imbrandon> i'm trying to move it to a new machine and i'm getting ...
[07:36] <imbrandon> root@lab:~/stuff# ./lpusers.py
[07:36] <imbrandon> Traceback (most recent call last):
[07:36] <imbrandon>   File "./lpusers.py", line 47, in <module>
[07:36] <imbrandon>     users = getMembers('motu')
[07:36] <imbrandon>   File "./lpusers.py", line 32, in getMembers
[07:36] <imbrandon>     for td in memberpage.find('h2', text='Active members').parent.parent.findChild('table').findAllChildren('td'):
[07:36] <imbrandon> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
[07:36] <imbrandon> am i missing a dep ?
[07:36] <Fujitsu> It should have failed beforehand if a dep was missing...
[07:37] <Fujitsu> It's possible some LP change broke it.
[07:37] <imbrandon> thats what i was thinking
[07:37] <imbrandon> true, dident think about that
[07:37] <imbrandon> and are we using ubuntu{,-core}-dev or ubuntu-core-dev and motu ? i can never rember
[07:38] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: The team pages were redone in 1.1.{9,10}, so that could break it.
[07:38] <Fujitsu> ubuntu-core-dev and motu.
[07:38] <imbrandon> k
[07:38] <Fujitsu> I need to run off to dinner now, but I'll have a look when I get back in 20.
[07:39] <imbrandon> kk sounds good, still have a copy ?
[07:39] <Fujitsu> I don't think so, heh.
[07:39] <imbrandon> k i'll post it somewhere while you eat etc
[07:39] <Fujitsu> Thanks.
[07:40] <Fujitsu> I don't quite recall why I didn't use +rdf...
[07:40] <Fujitsu> Anyway, bbs.
[07:41] <imbrandon> there was no faof:nick in the team rdf
[07:43] <imbrandon> but there is now, must have landed ( non-edge even )
[07:44] <imbrandon> sooo i bet we can just redo the whole script
[07:44] <imbrandon>         <foaf:Person>
[07:44] <imbrandon>           <foaf:name>Adrien Cunin</foaf:name>
[07:44] <imbrandon>           <foaf:nick>adri2000</foaf:nick>
[07:44] <imbrandon> hell infact it looks like the ssh key info is in the rdf now too
[07:44] <imbrandon> wow
[07:47] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/lpusers.py
[07:51] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Oh, right, yeah, that was added last release.
[07:51]  * Fujitsu looks at scraping.
[07:52] <imbrandon> yea , looks like a total rewrite really, hrm i was thinking about moving the keys also to a diffrent location so it dosent clobber ~.ssh/authotrized_keys too
[07:52] <imbrandon> on every sync
[07:52]  * imbrandon thinks
[07:53] <Fujitsu> sshd won't look at multiple locations, will it?
[07:53] <Fujitsu> We could possibly grep for it in the file and append it if it isn't there, but that wouldn't kill old keys.
[07:53] <imbrandon> yea i think it will
[07:53] <imbrandon> i was just looking that up
[07:56] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: +rdf even includes members of subteams!
[07:56] <imbrandon> nice
[07:57] <imbrandon> i was looking at an email too in the archive, isnt ubuntu-dev now a list of motu + core-dev ?
[07:57] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: ubuntu-dev should only have motu and ubuntu-core-dev as members eventually.
[07:58] <imbrandon> right
[07:58] <imbrandon> so we could just lookup one team vs two
[07:58] <imbrandon> correct ?
[07:58] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[07:58] <Fujitsu> ubuntu-dev, not motu.
[07:59] <imbrandon> k , just makin sure i understood that
[07:59] <imbrandon> yup
[07:59] <Fujitsu> I'll make it use +rdf now. It's not much of a change, as the SSH key still isn't there.
[07:59] <imbrandon> yea it only points to the location on the keyserver
[07:59] <imbrandon> not the actual key
[07:59] <Fujitsu> That's OpenPGP, isn't i?
[07:59] <Fujitsu> *it
[07:59] <imbrandon> but we grab it diffrent anyhow
[08:00] <imbrandon> huh ?
[08:00] <Fujitsu> The public key reference there is for OpenPGP, not SSH.
[08:00] <imbrandon> ohh right , duh
[08:00] <imbrandon> heh
[08:01] <imbrandon> still should be much easier with faof:nick now though
[08:01] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[08:03] <imbrandon> what were you saying about sub teams now?
[08:04] <Fujitsu> +rdf includes members of subteams, so we don't have to check both motu and ubuntu-core-dev. Just ubuntu-dev.
[08:08] <imbrandon> i wonder if multiple AuthorizedKeysFile directives work in the sshd_config
[08:09] <Fujitsu> No idea.
[08:09] <Fujitsu> Multiple Ports do, so...
[08:09]  * imbrandon tests
[08:14] <imbrandon> hrm dosent look like it
[08:14]  * imbrandon thinks
[08:17] <imbrandon> yea its only picking up the first directive
[08:18] <Fujitsu> Damn.
[08:18] <imbrandon> there has to be a way arround it, because you can store keys in ldap somehow
[08:18] <imbrandon> i'm just not finding it
[08:19]  * imbrandon wishes siretart was arround, i think he knows
[08:31] <BugMaN> hi all
[08:32] <imbrandon> heya BugMaN
[08:32] <imbrandon> ok i'm off to sleep, we can think about this a little more later Fujitsu
[08:32] <imbrandon> i'll catch up with you sometime tomarrow or so
[08:32] <imbrandon> cool?
[08:33] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Sure, just finishing working out how to parse the XML now.
[08:34] <imbrandon> kk, i'm pondering just putting up a "admin" server that runs ldap and hands out auth and pubkeys, there is a patch to make OpenSSH look in ldap for keys
[08:34] <imbrandon> but that will have to wait untill my eyes arent soo tired
[08:34] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[08:34] <Fujitsu> OK
[08:35] <imbrandon> the script could still be used to sync keys to the ldap config, anyhow i think u see what i'm gettign at
[08:35] <imbrandon> gnight all
[08:36] <Fujitsu> Night.
[08:46] <sebastian^> good morning folks
[09:11] <huats> morning all
[09:13] <geser> morning
[09:44] <s1024kb> Mez: Hello, good morning again, evening here my side.:)
[09:55] <norsetto> hiya all
[09:55] <geser> Hi norsetto
[09:55] <norsetto> morgen geser
[09:56] <warp10> hi norsetto
[09:56] <norsetto> warp10: hey, morning
[09:56] <michele77> hi norsetto
[09:57] <norsetto> michele77: morning Mr. purple
[09:59] <s1024kb> norsetto: hello, my teacher
[10:00] <michele77> norsetto: my name is michele azzolari.. and yes.. i'm using pidgin :-)
[10:01] <norsetto> s1024kb: morning
[10:09] <huats> norsetto: morning my friend
[10:11] <norsetto> huats: hello!
[10:18] <proppy> hi
[10:18] <proppy> norsetto: morning sensei
[10:18] <norsetto> proppy: arigato (I don't know for what, but its the only one I know .....)
[10:19] <proppy> norsetto:  :)
[10:19] <proppy> norsetto: I had a brief talk with Mez yesterday
[10:20] <norsetto> proppy: yes, I saw the upload and revu and your email; what was the problem?
[10:20]  * Mez wabes
[10:20] <norsetto> hi mez
[10:20] <proppy> he needs mumble to be packaged for a kde project :)
[10:20] <proppy> this is something he was looking forward doing this a long time
[10:20] <proppy> Mez: correct me if I'm wrong :)
[10:21] <proppy> Mez: it is for a radio thing ?
[10:21] <Mez> not really looking forward to, I just needed a package for radio amarok's team so we could chat freely
[10:21] <norsetto> proppy: well, can't you help mez pack it?
[10:22] <proppy> norsetto: yep I'll be glad to watch him, and do what he tells me to :)
[10:23] <norsetto> mez: is that ok by you? I'll be glad if you two work together on this
[10:23] <Mez> norsetto, It's not a big enough package to warrant two people working on it
[10:24] <norsetto> mez: yes, the idea is that you would point proppy in the right direction
[10:24] <proppy> Mez: consider me as an half of one :)
[10:24] <norsetto> mez: we have no particular attachment to this project to be honest, for proppy was just a way to get his hands dirty with some packaging
[10:25] <proppy> norsetto: but mez really want this thing done, we way found another project for me to get dirty
[10:25] <norsetto> proppy: sure we can, if you happy aboout it
[10:26] <proppy> norsetto: no pb for me, it's just a bit confusing for the upstream,
[10:26] <proppy> norsetto: to have 3 different people in less that one month working on his package
[10:27] <proppy> Mez: but you know the upstream well don't you ?
[10:27] <proppy> norsetto: what about http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/index.php ?
[10:28] <norsetto> proppy: brb
[10:29] <proppy> Mez: if you take over it, can you join the bug report and comments about it ?
[10:30] <proppy> Mez: btw you can still borrow the debian/watch file for my last upload
[10:53]  * persia grumbles about maintainers who remove functionality rather than adding exception handlers
[10:54] <Fujitsu> persia: Hah. Who?
[10:55] <persia> Fujitsu: Hydrogen-drumkits shipped a drumkit that crashed hydrogen.  In Debian, they removed the drumkit.  In Ubuntu, we made it not crash.
[10:55] <michele77> norsetto: I'd like to get my hands dirty with some packaging... could you help me?
[10:55] <persia> michele77: I'd encourage you to ask questions generally, rather than asking individuals.  That encourages others to respond as well.
[10:56] <michele77> persia: ok, thanks!
[10:56] <Fujitsu> Ah, I see.
[10:57] <persia> michele77: The next question would be, have you done any patching, or are you completely new to packaging?
[10:58] <michele77> persia: I've done only one (stupid) patch in libapache-mod-jk
[10:59] <persia> michele77: If it was accepted, it wasn't a stupid patch.  Perhaps a simple one.  I'd recommend looking for more packaging bugs, and becoming familiar with various packaging practices before making your own package.
[11:01] <persia> On the other hand, if you really want to try, pick any unassigned bug from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging, and give it a shot.
[11:01] <michele77> persia: ok, simple patch
[11:01] <persia> michele77: For packaging patches (rather than complete packaging), https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=packaging is a good list.
[11:02] <persia> Fujitsu: Do we have anything that runs lintian/linda over everything yet?
[11:02] <warp10> norsetto: ping
[11:03] <proppy> Mez: I've deassigned myself from bug #129081, feel free to assign yourself :)
[11:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
[11:03] <Fujitsu> persia: Not at the moment.
[11:03] <persia> proppy: Was that going into Debian as well?
[11:03] <persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.
[11:04] <Fujitsu> Unfortunately, I don't have machines with loads of spare CPU time and a local mirror in the same location.
[11:04] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, I am looking for MOTU's to review my package on REVU: I currently have 0 advocations : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=easycrypt - thanks
[11:04] <persia> Fujitsu: These are in different locations?
[11:06] <Fujitsu> persia: Yes.
[11:06] <proppy> persia: ?
[11:06]  * persia is impressed with the implied geographical reach
[11:06] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[11:06] <proppy> persia: ah you're right I uploaded it to mentors
[11:06] <Fujitsu> It would make sense for Canonical to run such checks, but a lot of such things would make sense, so I guess it's not going to happen.
[11:07] <proppy> persia: but since I didn't assign myself to the bts
[11:07] <persia> proppy: I thought I remembered something about you submitting mumble to mentors.debian.net.  I'm not sure it makes sense for us to import if it will be sync'd.
[11:07] <proppy> persia: is there something I can do ?
[11:07] <persia> proppy: Ah.  Mez is assigned to the ITP?
[11:08] <persia> Fujitsu: There's a couple QA sessions at UDS.  Perhaps we'll get what we want.
[11:08] <proppy> persia: dunno who he is assigned to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=429988
[11:08] <ubotu> Debian bug 429988 in wnpp "ITP: mumble -- Voice chat client" [Wishlist,Open]
[11:08] <Fujitsu> persia: Perhaps. It's unfortunate that UDS is when I'm meant to be in bed.
[11:08] <proppy> persia: I'm not I only uploaded the package I was working on, on mentors
[11:08] <persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  I liked CET better than EST as well :)
[11:09] <Fujitsu> Mhm.
[11:09] <persia> Maybe the next one will be on this side of the globe...
[11:09] <Fujitsu> One can hope.
[11:09] <Fujitsu> They've been over there for a while now.
[11:09] <proppy> persia: what should I do ?
[11:10] <persia> proppy: OK.  I'm just confused.  it seems like all of you, Mez, and Justin Wray are working on the package, and I'm loathe to push it without some coordination.
[11:10] <Mez> persia, that's cool I can push myself
[11:10] <StevenHarperUK> hehe I didn't think that was allowed :p
[11:10] <persia> Mez: Are you in touch with Justin?  I'd hate to have a painful merge because the packaging was incredibly different.
[11:13] <proppy> norsetto: bug #158605
[11:13] <proppy> norsetto: should I file an ITP as well ?
[11:15] <proppy> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/158605
[11:15] <persia> proppy: Is that a dependency for anything?  We've already heaps of frameworks :)
[11:18] <proppy> persia: I'm sure plenty of people will depends on it, once it's packaged: including me :)
[11:19] <persia> proppy: Ah.  If you'll be using it.  I'm just not a fan of minority GUI & sound toolkits: they tend to acquire bugs :)
[11:19] <proppy> persia: I'm doing some wiimote stuff with it
[11:19]  * persia really ought to get one of those
[11:20] <proppy> persia: be sure to get a bluetooth dongle as well :)
[11:20] <persia> proppy: Why would I need a bluetooth dongle?
[11:20] <proppy> persia: I know a few proprietary product that depends on it,
[11:20] <persia> proppy: And they don't work with system bluetooth or CF bluetooth?
[11:20] <proppy> persia: maybe I could convince them to open some part of their code if juce is already packaged :)
[11:21] <proppy> persia: they do, it's just that not everybody have system bluetooth :)
[11:21] <proppy> persia: my old x40 doesn't :)
[11:25] <warp10> norsetto: ping
[11:26] <norsetto> warp10: yes sir?
[11:26] <persia> warp10: You'll do best to either 1) ask your question generally so anyone can answer, or 2) provide some context when pinging.
[11:27]  * Fujitsu notes that everybody seems to want norsetto nowadays.
[11:27] <proppy> persia: let me know if you get one :)
[11:27] <warp10> norsetto: I've got an answer by the DD for package nicotine (bug: #137279). He's happy with my debdiff
[11:27] <norsetto> warp10: cool
[11:28] <warp10> norsetto: he suggested me to report it in the debain BTS so that it can be fixed in the next upload.
[11:29] <norsetto> warp10: I thought you submitted it already?
[11:29] <proppy> persia: but beware many of the wii library are reading bluetooth id in a char[16] instead of a char[18], so be sure to turn your stack smashing protection on :)
[11:29] <norsetto> bug 137279
[11:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137279 in nicotine ""Abort & Delete" button mislabeled" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137279
[11:29]  * persia defers any purchase, waiting for patch
[11:29] <persia> Mez: upid 473 commented
[11:30] <norsetto> warp10: ok, I see you haven't , yes, send a bug to the bts with the patch attached pls.
[11:30] <warp10> norsetto: no, I didn't. Do you thing I should send the same debdiff I attached to the LP bug report?
[11:30] <warp10> *think
[11:31] <norsetto> warp10: what patch system is being used in nicotine, if any?
[11:31]  * persia notes that Debian generally prefers target patches to debdiffs, even when no patch system is in use
[11:31] <warp10> norsetto: no idea
[11:32] <siretart> imbrandon: yes?
[11:32] <proppy> persia: already reported http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1820140&group_id=187194&atid=920320 :)
[11:32] <ubotu> Gaim bug 1820140 "Wiiuse-0.7: Stack overflow at io_nix.c:114" [Pri: 5,Closed fixed]
[11:32] <norsetto> warp10: well, check it! becuase your debdiff doesn't use any
[11:32] <proppy> persia: he applied my patch :)
[11:32] <persia> proppy: That looks fixed.  Why not grab the fix, and apply it to our package?
[11:32]  * Hobbsee waves
[11:32] <norsetto> hi Hobbsee
[11:32] <persia> Hi Hobbsee
[11:32] <TheMuso_Boston> persia: Any reason why you didn't get those hydroen changes into Debian first?
[11:32] <Hobbsee> hiya norsetto, persia
[11:32] <Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
[11:32] <Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu
[11:32] <proppy> persia: strange it's not a gaim bug !
[11:33] <persia> TheMuso: hydrogen drumkit trimmed in Debian in July, hydrogen use/set fix written in October.  Patch is in BTS.
[11:33] <TheMuso_Boston> ok good to hear.
[11:34] <proppy> persia: wiiuse seems not packaged
[11:34] <persia> TheMuso_Boston: I always intend to get things back, but I don't yet have a working time machine :)
[11:34] <TheMuso_Boston> persia: Ok fair enough.
[11:35] <siretart> imbrandon: what do you need multiple AuthorizedKeysFile directives for in the sshd_config?
[11:35] <proppy> hi Hobbchi
[11:36] <Fujitsu> siretart: He was considering splitting the keys got from LP and user-specified keys, so they wouldn't be overwritten.
[11:37] <warp10> norsetto: looks like no patch system is used at all
[11:37] <fernando> moin all
[11:37] <norsetto> warp10: ok, then just provide your debdiff, alternatively you can cut only the two last patches
[11:38] <warp10> norsetto: ok. Should I file against the package or the source package?
[11:39] <norsetto> warp10: in this case there is 1 source and 1 binary with the same name ....
[11:40] <norsetto> warp10: you can check this link for reporting bugs to debian http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
[11:41] <norsetto> warp10: there is also a package available, reportbug or something like that. I've never used it myself though.
[11:42] <norsetto> warp10: you may want to include some ubuntu user-tags, let me fecth a link for you
[11:44] <norsetto> warp10: here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging
[11:45] <warp10> norsetto: ok! Thanks for the links. I'll take care of everything
[11:46] <norsetto> warp10: ok, re. uploading your patch to ubuntu, personally, I would wait for the debian fix to be synced back
[11:48] <warp10> norsetto: ok! Once the bug is reported in Debian BTS, is it a good idea to link it in the LP bug report?
[11:49] <norsetto> warp10: definetively!
[11:49] <norsetto> warp10: its a MUST ;-)
[11:49] <norsetto> warp10: otherwise we come to you during the night and haunts your dreams ....
[11:51]  * warp10 thinks he will double check everything...
[11:52] <norsetto> warp10: I've got good news
[11:52] <warp10> norsetto: I like good news!
[11:53] <Fujitsu> persia: I'm seeing what I can do about getting a lintian check running regularly... it shouldn't be too CPU-intensive once the initial run is done, I guess.
[11:54] <persia> Fujitsu: If you have the cycles to spare, that'd be great.  It be neat to have a handy URL to which to point people who ask "I'm new to packaging: where can I start".  Thank you.
[11:55] <Fujitsu> Yeah, I can imagine it'll take at least a couple of days to get through everything initially. Fortunately, it keeps track of what has changed.
[11:56] <persia> Fujitsu: A couple days?  I was thinking a week or two.
[11:57] <Fujitsu> persia: We'll see.
[12:00] <proppy> persia: Is there some kind of dashboard out there pointing +need-packages +sync-request +outstanding-merge entry, with wiki page attached to them ?
[12:01] <persia> proppy: I encourage you to ask questions generally.  That aside, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO is what we have.  The General tasks section points to the items you mention.
[12:02]  * persia is amused that we already have 6 "updated merges"
[12:03] <proppy> persia: thanks (should I also thanks generally ?) :
[12:03] <proppy> :)
[12:06] <Zero_Dogg> Not quite sure if this is the right place, but I'll give it a try. I'm looking to get an app I've written packaged for Ubuntu. I don't have any previous deb-packaging experience, though I have extensive rpm-packaging knowledge. What are the submission guidelines for Ubuntu? Ie. should everything just be submitted upstream to Debian instead?
[12:07] <persia> Zero_Dogg: If it goes into Debian, it will go into Ubuntu.  You may also package directly for Ubuntu.  At this point in the development cycle, we encourage packaging for Debian, so as to benefit a wider audience.
[12:08] <persia> There is a work-in-progress guide to packaging available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/.  It doesn't include everything, but gies an overview, and has links to most of the right places.
[12:09] <Zero_Dogg> persia: yeah, I guess I could try Debian. Any quick guide to packaging anywhere or a program that helps do it? Only thing about Debian is that last I checked they where crazy strict, and packaging this on my own for Deb might not go through :)
[12:10] <persia> Zero_Dogg: We're likely even more strict when it comes to new packages :).  I find that lintian and linda are great tools to track down issues with policy.  Try reviewing the link I listed earlier: you're welcome to ask here if you have questions.
[12:11] <Zero_Dogg> persia: right. Do you know of any perl packaging policy? My app ships with a bunch of private perl module (not used by anything else)
[12:12] <persia> Zero_Dogg: Google tells me http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/perl-policy/ch-perl.html
[12:12] <Zero_Dogg> persia: thanks
[12:14]  * Fujitsu watches a heap of multiverse packages fail lintian checks miserably.
[12:15] <persia> heh
[12:17] <norsetto> fujitsu: I asked nxvl to coordinate with you and/or asac bug 137993. I hope you don't mind?
[12:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137993 in mplayerplug-in "mozilla-mplayer unnecessarily depends on gecko browsers" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137993
[12:17] <norsetto> Fujitsu: perhaps there are some other simple fixes that you may want him to add too.
[12:18] <Fujitsu> norsetto: I haven't dealt with the plugin much.
[12:20] <norsetto> Fujitsu: well, do you think about addiing xulrunner as a dependancy makes sense?
[12:21] <Fujitsu> `whatevergeckoappsitdependsonnow | xulrunner' seems to make sense, yes.
[12:22] <norsetto> Fujitsu: right, thanks
[12:23]  * norsetto --> lunch
[13:00] <huats> gouki: are you around ?
[13:18] <azeem> ryanakca: openbabel_2.1.1-2 is in Debian incoming now
[13:37] <mruiz> hi bluekuja
[13:38] <bluekuja> hi mr_pouit
[13:38] <bluekuja> aw
[13:38] <bluekuja> mruiz,
[13:38] <bluekuja> :)
[13:38] <bluekuja> mr_pouit, wrong ping sorry :)
[13:38] <mruiz> hahaha
[13:38] <bluekuja> too much rush
[13:38] <bluekuja> :P
[13:39] <mr_pouit> ^^
[13:39] <warp10> Hi all
[13:39] <bluekuja> mruiz, need something?
[13:40] <mruiz> bluekuja, sure! Do you have time to guide me with a merge?
[13:40] <bluekuja> mruiz, yes
[13:40] <bluekuja> mruiz, have you decided a package to start with?
[13:41] <mruiz> bluekuja, fetchyahoo
[13:41] <bluekuja> mruiz, already pinged previous uploader?
[13:41] <superm1> mr_pouit, would you give a glance over the other NEW plugin I uploaded on revu before I would upload it?
[13:41] <mruiz> bluekuja, I downloaded the files with grab-merge.sh
[13:41] <mruiz> bluekuja, I was the previous uploader :-)
[13:41] <bluekuja> mruiz, fine then :)
[13:43] <bluekuja> mruiz, open a merge bug
[13:43] <bluekuja> mruiz, assign it to you, and give me the id
[13:44] <mruiz> bluekuja, but we don't know about the procedure results: merge or sync
[13:47] <mr_pouit> superm1: the bzr branch seemed ok yesterday (too bad there's an upstream debian dir). Did you change something?
[13:47] <superm1> mr_pouit, no i didn't change anything, just didn't see an ack from you.  Would you add an ack to revu then for history's sake?
[13:47] <superm1> and i'll upload it
[13:48] <mr_pouit> superm1: yeah of course, as soon as I find my password :p
[13:50] <mruiz> ping bluekuja
[13:51] <bluekuja> mruiz, yes, check that then
[13:51] <bluekuja> mruiz, and report to me when done
[13:53] <bluekuja> mruiz, from the patch looks like a merge
[13:54] <mruiz> bluekuja, I have to know "how to read" a patch :-)
[13:55] <mr_pouit> superm1: done
[13:56] <bluekuja> mruiz, let me check the changelog
[13:58] <TheMuso_Boston> superm1: Congratulations on that huge downloads milestone.
[13:58] <TheMuso_Boston> I saw it on the fridge.
[13:58] <bluekuja> mruiz, It seems the only Ubuntu entry is your one
[13:58] <superm1> TheMuso_Boston, actually that was a few days old, we're a few thousand above that now.  Thanks :)
[13:58] <TheMuso_Boston> superm1: Well nevertheless, congratulatoins.
[13:59] <bluekuja> mruiz, about that new upstream release
[13:59] <TheMuso_Boston> superm1: Are you staying for the larger livefs session?
[13:59] <superm1> TheMuso_Boston, i was in theory supposed to be in packaging-tools-usability
[14:00] <bluekuja> mruiz, with the breezy one
[14:00] <TheMuso_Boston> Right.
[14:00] <bluekuja> mruiz, another upstream release
[14:00] <superm1> although hm that could be of interest too.
[14:01] <bluekuja> mruiz, is that right?
[14:01] <mruiz> bluekuja, the latest version is 2.11.2. What we have to do in this cases: merge and a later upstream update ?
[14:02] <bluekuja> mruiz, let's see if it needs a merge :)
[14:02] <mruiz> bluekuja, Debian version is 2.10.8-1 and the latest Ubuntu version is 2.10.8-0 (mine) :-)
[14:03] <bluekuja> mruiz, yes, do you know something about my $spoolName?
[14:03] <bluekuja> mruiz, the patch adds some modifications to fetchyahoo/fetchyahoorc files
[14:04] <bluekuja> mruiz, +spool = /var/spool/mail/local-user-name
[14:04] <bluekuja> -spool = /var/mail/local-user-name
[14:04] <bluekuja> mruiz, but I can't find any reference about it
[14:04] <bluekuja> mruiz, in the changelog
[14:06] <mruiz> bluekuja, I'm following the changes...
[14:09] <bluekuja> mruiz, understood a bit what I mean?
[14:09] <bluekuja> mruiz, you should see it...
[14:09] <mruiz> bluekuja, yes
[14:09] <bluekuja> mruiz, fine, any explanation for that?
[14:10] <bluekuja> mruiz, you did a new u-r and debian updated the package some time later
[14:11] <bluekuja> mruiz, we should ask a sync for that, but those changes not documented
[14:11] <mruiz> bluekuja, I'll ask to the debian maintainer about this changes
[14:11] <bluekuja> mruiz, stop us from doing that
[14:11] <bluekuja> mruiz, yeah thanks, it would be great :)
[14:11]  * mruiz is adding this task to his TODO
[14:12] <bluekuja> mruiz, let me know
[14:12] <mruiz> bluekuja, ok
[14:12] <mruiz> bluekuja, can we try with other package ? :-)
[14:13] <bluekuja> mruiz, yes, but I wont be so responsive
[14:13] <mruiz> bluekuja, why ?
[14:13] <bluekuja> mruiz, I'm doing some other stuff
[14:13] <bluekuja> :)
[14:13] <mruiz> hahaha :-)
[14:13] <bluekuja> ^^
[14:18] <mruiz> bluekuja, see you tomorrow then :-) Thanks for your time
[14:18] <ScottK2> Any objections to adding a requirement to motu SRU policy that debian/changelog entry include a user friendly description of the change?
[14:18]  * proppy hugs dholbach
[14:18] <bluekuja> mruiz, :)
[14:18] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: please also include a change saying "remember to breathe"
[14:18] <zul> hey dholbach
[14:18] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, lol
[14:19] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: Sure.
[14:19] <Hobbsee> apparently, some people need really basic instructions, adn dont use common sense.
[14:19]  * dholbach hugs proppy back
[14:20] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: other good candidates would be "write changelogs in english",  "it's hardy, not gutsy", "don't upload binaries to the ubuntu archive", etc.
[14:20] <ScottK2> Heh
[14:21] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: Don't upload it if you don't have some idea if it works or not too.
[14:21] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: that too.  "test before upload"
[14:25] <sistpoty|UDS> hi folks
[14:25] <bluekuja> heya sistpoty|UDS
[14:26] <sistpoty|UDS> hi bluekuja
[14:26] <bluekuja> sistpoty|UDS, how is UDS going?
[14:27] <sistpoty|UDS> bluekuja: good so far... first session of the day is just running
[14:27] <sistpoty|UDS> and it's very interesting to actually meet people in person *g*
[14:27] <bluekuja> hehe, I know. I hope next UDS will be done in Italy
[14:28] <sistpoty|UDS> hehe
[14:28] <proppy> bluekuja: me too
[14:29] <bluekuja> :)
[14:29] <proppy> bluekuja: cause it's not that far from france :)
[14:29] <bluekuja> proppy, lol
[14:30] <bluekuja> proppy, Rome would be a nice city for the UDS
[14:30] <sladen> bluekuja: listen in!  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Boston/Participate
[14:32] <bluekuja> sladen, great!
[14:32] <bluekuja> sladen, thanks for the link, now connecting^^
[14:33] <sistpoty|UDS> I hope there are no streams from the restrooms *g*
[14:33] <bluekuja> lol
[14:38] <methods> hi...
[14:43] <methods> so this is where the ubuntu activists live
[14:44]  * Hobbsee peeks out of her cave
[14:45] <methods> so how do i get involve d?
[14:46]  * Hobbsee points at topic
[14:46] <Hobbsee> (sorry, doing other bits too)
[14:46] <methods> go it ...
[14:47] <sistpoty|UDS> btw. there was a funny mail on the motu ml, assuming that motu was a person
[14:48] <TheMuso_Boston> Hobbsee: I would think Bed would be weighing on your mind right now...
[14:49] <Hobbsee> TheMuso_Boston: thinking about it.
[14:51] <ScottK2> methods: The best way is dive in, get to work, and ask questions as you have them.
[14:51] <methods> llol get to work on what ?
[14:52] <ScottK2> methods: What do you want to work on?
[14:52] <sistpoty|UDS> later folks
[14:53] <ScottK2> methods: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO is sort of our list, but ultimately it has to be stuff you want to do.
[14:53] <methods> idk man ... just wondering what your all doing... how the community works...
[14:54] <methods> you guys got any groups in nyc ?
[15:05] <ScottK2> methods: Sorry,  I'm in the middle of our developer sprint right now, so don't have time to discuss.
[15:17] <CyberMatt> Hello
[16:13] <proppy> hi
[16:14] <proppy> is there a way I can cd to a particular directory before the build rule of cdbs makefile.mk is called ?
[16:23] <norsetto> proppy: why would you want to do it?
[16:26] <ScottK2> norsetto: Some packages hide their makefile in odd spots
[16:27] <ScottK2> proppy: I'm pretty sure you can, but with cdbs, you need to read the source to figure out how.
[16:44] <norsetto> fujitsu: do we need to add hardy in the bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file tag?
[16:46] <norsetto> fujitsu: in the info message I mean: distribution should be one of _hardy_, gutsy, feisty, edgy, dapper, breezy, hoary
[16:56] <shishir> hi
[16:57] <shishir> how can i help ubuntu i know c and c++ html and related stuff
[16:57] <shishir> hello
[16:57] <shishir> anybody home??
[16:57] <Pici> !participate | shishir
[16:57] <ubotu> shishir: To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[16:58] <shishir> i am a total newbie for everything.. i am still doin my graduation..
[16:58] <shishir> does it matter??
[16:58] <jpatrick> shishir: no, I haven't even left school
[16:59] <shishir> then how what to join and what to do..
[16:59] <shishir> guys this is my first live project participation
[16:59] <jpatrick> see the webpage :)
[16:59] <shishir> i am seein
[16:59] <shishir> i clicked on development
[17:00] <shishir> as it saya i will need a mentor..
[17:01] <jpatrick> shishir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
[17:02] <shishir> what do you suggest i should join for developing??
[17:03] <jpatrick> no idea, only you know what you're good at
[17:03] <shishir> a begginer is equally good at everything..
[17:04] <shishir> that he is no good!!
[17:04] <shishir> mentor help u personally?/
[17:04] <jpatrick> we are all constantly learning
[17:04] <shishir> ya bro thats a fact
[17:04] <sacater> forgive my question but has the hardy whatever out yet?
[17:05] <norsetto> shishir: where does it say that you need a mentor?
[17:05] <sacater> sorry, has the hardy testing series started?
[17:05] <jpatrick> sacater: yes
[17:05] <sacater> :o
[17:05] <shishir> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/developerzone
[17:05] <shishir> it says here
[17:05] <sacater> :
[17:05] <sacater> :o*
[17:05] <shishir> well i am still not gettin wht to do guys
[17:06] <norsetto> shishir: where?
[17:06] <sacater> *gets lappy ready*
[17:06] <shishir> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/developerzone in this link
[17:06] <shishir> Ubuntu is developed through an open community process. Anyone with the necessary technical skills can contribute to the development of Ubuntu. If you want to learn, you can find a mentor within the development team to help you along.
[17:07] <norsetto> ah!
[17:07] <shishir> no what to do.. i need some initial guidance
[17:08] <sacater> er
[17:08] <sacater> you want a mentor?
[17:08] <shishir> i am actually a web developer but wanna add a live project on my resume
[17:08] <sacater> ah
[17:08] <sacater> cool
[17:08] <shishir> ya i need a mentor.. till i get wings!!
[17:08] <sacater> what kind of work are you into
[17:08] <jpatrick> shishir: maybe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment ?
[17:08] <sacater> 'developer' means anything
[17:09] <shishir> creating web pages using html.. presently using CMS stuff
[17:09] <shishir> heard of EXPONent??
[17:09]  * jpatrick "develops" only cos it's what he likes best and it's fun :)
[17:10] <norsetto> japtrick: yes, when you don't set me as the maintainer ;-)
[17:11] <jpatrick> norsetto: yeah, sorry, I corrected that - forgot to edit that out
[17:11] <norsetto> shishir: the page jpatrick gave you is an excellent start, pleasee read it to have an idea what "development" means for ubuntu
[17:12] <shishir> reading
[17:12] <norsetto> jpatrick: no need to be sorry, it was fun to see I became the maintainer of knight, kind of reaching knighthood
[17:12] <jpatrick> hehe
[17:13] <shishir> well thats fine now.. but where do i fit in the senario..
[17:13] <shishir> i am not a MOTU neither a coree  developer
[17:13] <shishir> i mean core
[17:14] <jpatrick> shishir: you move up the stages bit by bit, first MOTU then core
[17:14] <shishir> ok fine then i should register as a motu to some mailing list??
[17:15] <norsetto> shishir: do you understand what being a motu is? It fits with your goal to "add a live project" to your cv?
[17:15] <jpatrick> shishir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
[17:16] <shishir> well its not just adding..
[17:16] <shishir> i like ubuntu.. and wann become a linux dev or a dbms dev still confused so wanna try ahand at both..
[17:17] <shishir> jpatrick: that page has nothin
[17:17] <jpatrick> no, the link on it, sorry
[17:18] <shishir> hey i think i will need a mentor with private communication.. any1 wanna help me out in this??
[17:19] <proppy> norsetto: back
[17:19] <norsetto> bug 151530
[17:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151530 in wine "user's profile shell folders should symlink to $XDG_XXX_DIR" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151530
[17:19] <norsetto> proppy: welcome back
[17:19] <shishir> help
[17:20] <jpatrick> shishir: patience is virtud
[17:21] <shishir> no takers??
[17:21] <shishir> am i askin so dumb questions??
[17:22] <shishir> ok then bye guys
[17:22] <shishir> what else can i do
[17:22] <jpatrick> shishir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor
[17:24] <proppy> norsetto: about the cdbs make class, juce need to change to build/linux directory before calling make
[17:24] <proppy> norsetto: I figured how to do this without the makefile.mk class
[17:25] <proppy> norsetto: enjoy http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/a18fc2f96039
[17:25] <CyberMatt> I uploaded a package to revu two or three weeks ago and it hasn't gotten reviewed yet is this normal
[17:26] <shishir> ok guys i hope i will get someone to help me out
[17:26] <shishir> bye
[17:26] <tuxmaniac> when does a debian sync request gets approved? bug 135492
[17:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135492 in libitpp "Update to latest version in Ubuntu" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135492
[17:26] <jpatrick> CyberMatt: which package?
[17:26] <CyberMatt> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=inspircd
[17:26] <tuxmaniac> can somone please Ack it?
[17:29] <jpatrick> CyberMatt: package is not in Debian or Ubuntu, why the big changelog?
[17:30] <CyberMatt> cus i kept introduceing bugs fixing them
[17:30] <CyberMatt> and i like to be detailed in these things
[17:31] <CyberMatt> should it be smaller
[17:31] <jpatrick> these are like, different uploads to revu?
[17:31] <CyberMatt> ?
[17:32] <jpatrick> I would just do: 1.1.13-0ubuntu1 and "* Inital release"
[17:32] <CyberMatt> ok
[17:32] <jpatrick> -0ubuntu1 because it is not in Debian
[17:33] <CyberMatt> ah
[17:33] <jpatrick> CyberMatt: and I would also create a patches/ dir in debian/ and put any changes you do to the source there
[17:33] <CyberMatt> ok
[17:34] <jpatrick> diff -Nurp yourchanges.file orig.fil > ubuntu_01_fixblah.diff
[17:35] <CyberMatt> its only like one two lines in a makefile but i guess so
[17:35] <jpatrick> it later stops clashes with Debian with different .orig.tar.gz's
[17:36] <CyberMatt> could also update to the latest upstream while I'm at it
[17:36] <CyberMatt> there always doing new rel
[17:36] <CyberMatt> s
[17:37] <CyberMatt> why was there a line break there
[17:37] <CyberMatt> oh well
[17:38] <jpatrick> CyberMatt: in the long desc. try and keep the line not go past 80 spaces - for people in the console mode
[17:41] <CyberMatt> question because the bug fixes were minimal in the upstream can i just do a diff from the upstream and apply it to my package
[17:41] <norsetto> proppy: have you tried to still include the makefile.mk and just do the cd in another target?
[17:42] <norsetto> proppy: beside, wasn't there a make option to do that .....
[17:42] <CyberMatt> don't really feel like trying to track down the makefile bug again
[17:42] <jpatrick> CyberMatt: if they have an tarballs it would be best to grab those
[17:42] <proppy> norsetto: I don't know how to cd, since I'm not inside the makefile.mk, and make execute each command in a new shell
[17:42] <CyberMatt> ok
[17:43] <proppy> norsetto: makefile.mk has a variable for specifiing the path of the Makefile
[17:43] <jpatrick> all you have to do is cp the debian dir across
[17:43] <proppy> norsetto: but it is not usefull here, cause you have to cd build/linux && make, make -f build/linux/Makefile doesn't work
[17:44] <proppy> norsetto: but maybe there is another option I'm not aware of, let's man
[17:44] <norsetto> proppy: I just saw that lately, let me try to remember where
[17:44] <jpatrick> CyberMatt: the only thing that should be in the diff.gz is what's in the debian/ dir
[17:47] <CyberMatt> had modify a makefile to get it to install in the right dirs
[17:48] <jpatrick> CyberMatt: make a patch and put it into debian/patches ( https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ps-chap.html )
[17:48] <CyberMatt> ok done
[17:48] <proppy> norsetto: I love you
[17:49] <proppy> norsetto:      -C dir, --directory=dir Change to directory dir before reading the makefiles or doing anything else.
[17:49] <mruiz> hi all. I want to merge a package... I have selected the package (gproftpd) and I downloaded the related files
[17:49] <norsetto> proppy: yes, thats the one, just found it too :-)
[17:49] <joejaxx> mruiz: did you ask the original merger if you could do it? :)
[17:49] <joejaxx> hello norsetto
[17:49] <norsetto> hiya joejaxx
[17:51] <mruiz> joejaxx, I did the last Ubuntu update :-)
[17:52] <joejaxx> mruiz: ahhh :)
[17:56] <mruiz> Can someone guide me trough the merge process ?
[17:58] <joejaxx> sistpoty|UDS: :D
[17:58] <sistpoty|UDS> joejaxx: *g*
[18:09] <CyberMatt> now to check if it still builds after all that
[18:24] <CyberMatt> alright package is up
[18:27] <CyberMatt> when will it show that i changed it
[18:28] <CyberMatt> revu that is
[18:29] <geser> siretart: just curious: shouldn't bug #158318 and bug #158319 be covered by the auto-syncs?
[18:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 158318 in sauerbraten "please sync version  0.0.20070819.dfsg-1 from unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158318
[18:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 158319 in sauerbraten-data "please sync version 0.0.20070819.dfsg-1 from unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158319
[18:31] <siretart> geser: they should, but aren't obviously, I'll ask pitti later about that
[18:38] <Skiessi> can someone update libtorrent10 and rtorrent packages of the hardy repository?
[18:48] <geser> Skiessi: hardy is currently in auto-sync mode, I assume it gets synced by the archive admins after UDS (which is right now)
[18:49] <Skiessi> ok
[19:52] <sistpoty|UDS> !SRU | sistpoty|UDS
[19:53] <sistpoty|UDS> yum ubotu
[20:22] <peppych> hi all, are there any unattended-upgrades master out there ?
[20:22] <peppych> I'm wondering how it react when it tries to update an package which doesn't fit his update policy ?
[20:23] <peppych> I'm not sure if it's the right place to ask this so sorry if not ;)
[20:33] <proppy> norsetto: ok this is weird
[20:33] <proppy> norsetto: In the root source directory
[20:33] <proppy> norsetto: calling make -C build/linux work like a charm
[20:34] <proppy> norsetto: but once I had make -C build/linux CFLAGS="" it bombs
[20:40] <norsetto> proppy: you mean just adding CFLAGS will not work? Can you upload the package somewhere?
[20:43] <proppy> it uploaded somewhere :)
[20:44] <proppy> norsetto: http://juce.aminche.com/
[20:44] <norsetto> proppy: also, remember to pass CFLAGS as CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"
[20:45] <norsetto> proppy: btw, if its autoconfigure usually you pass CFLAGS to configure
[20:45] <proppy> norsetto: I can give you ssh access
[20:45] <proppy> norsetto: all the build dep are here
[20:45] <proppy> norsetto: let's copy from lp*.aminche.com
[20:46] <norsetto> proppy: just tell me if the diff.gz and .dsc are up to date
[20:47] <proppy> norsetto: they are
[20:52] <norsetto> proppy: what has the rules in this package to do with what you are asking!?
[20:53] <proppy> norsetto: if you look at makefile.mk implementation
[20:53] <proppy> norsetto: you will notice that DEB_BUILDDIR is passed as an argument of the -C make option
[20:53] <proppy> norsetto: make -C DEB_BUILDDIR
[20:53] <proppy> norsetto: so I was able to reproduce the behaviour outside of the debian scripts
[20:53] <proppy> norsetto: by calling make by hand
[20:54] <proppy> norsetto: btw  ssh root@juce.aminche.com -p 1922
[20:58] <norsetto> proppy: I still don't understand what is the problem. Is this rules not working, but if you do it manually with make -C it does?
[20:59] <proppy> norsetto: exactly
[21:00] <proppy> norsetto: and the difference between the 2 call are the CFLAGS option added
[21:01] <norsetto> proppy: what about this: mkdir -p "$(DEB_BUILDDIR)" in the builddir target?
[21:01] <norsetto> proppy: sorry, makebuilddir target (its in buildcore.mk)
[21:03] <proppy> norsetto: I feel unconfortable buy override DEB_BUILDDIR
[21:03] <proppy> norsetto: I don't know what are the side effect elsewhere in cdbs
[21:04] <norsetto> proppy: right now I'm not so sure you can use DEB_BUILDDIR
[21:05] <proppy> norsetto: so maybe I should revert http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/3d713b5f2197
[21:05] <nxvl> hi all
[21:06] <norsetto> proppy: see this in buildvars.mk: DEB_BUILDDIR ?= $(strip $(DEB_SRCDIR)) ?
[21:06] <nxvl> norsetto: did you se kevin's answer?
[21:06] <norsetto> nxvl: yes, did you see my comment on the bug report?
[21:07] <nxvl> norsetto: nop, i have had not check my mail yesterday, i have had a long and heavy work day :(
[21:08] <norsetto> nxvl: thats good, it builds character ;-)
[21:09] <nxvl> norsetto: yes, y REALLY love my work
[21:10] <nxvl> but it has some really hard days sometimes
[21:10] <LaserJock> hmm, how are people handling the versioning of building for different releases with PPAs?
[21:10] <norsetto> proppy: anyhow, what do you keep trying to use cdbs? Once you get off the beaten track its worse than debhelp (I think)
[21:11] <norsetto> proppy: look how long it takes to just do a bloody simple passing of a -C option to make .....
[21:11] <proppy> norsetto: I'm just afraid of 20+ debhelp command I don't know about
[21:12] <persia> LaserJock: I see a lot of ~usernameQ strings, for incrementing Q
[21:12] <proppy> norsetto: but maybe after maning each of them I will feel confident
[21:12] <persia> LaserJock: Sorry: missed context.  Perhaps ~usernameQ.Y.MM to include the release date?
[21:13] <LaserJock> yeah perhaps
[21:13] <LaserJock> looking though the PPAs I see lots of different versioning
[21:13]  * ajmitch hasn't built for separate releases
[21:13] <LaserJock> sometimes people have it exactly as you would in the Ubuntu archives
[21:13] <LaserJock> but that will mess up building with different releases
[21:14] <persia> LaserJock: That's just plain dangerous: not only is it hard to be release-specific, but it's nigh-impossible to reupload to Ubuntu (at least until the sync issue is better addressed)
[21:14] <LaserJock> asac seems to have 0ubuntu0<release>~ppaX
[21:14] <Fujitsu> norsetto: Oops, missed that, thanks.
[21:15] <LaserJock> firefox - 2.0.0.8+0dfsg~beta2-0ubuntu0.6.10~ppa2
[21:15] <LaserJock> what a mess
[21:15] <norsetto> Fujitsu: np
[21:15] <LaserJock> hmm
[21:15] <persia> LaserJock: My memory is that firefox uses the -0ubuntu0.Y.MM notation for SRUs, so it may be related to that.
[21:16] <LaserJock> ah
[21:16] <LaserJock> but that also will have problems
[21:16] <persia> LaserJock: Why?
[21:16] <sistpoty|UDS> hi LaserJock and persia
[21:16] <LaserJock> hmm
[21:16] <persia> sistpoty|UDS: Hi.
[21:17] <asac> its used for security updates as well ... the ~ppaX is used to ppa preview/beta packages so i get feedback before pushing these dangerous updates out
[21:17] <LaserJock> what happens when you upload  -0ubuntu0.7.10~ppa1 to gutsy and then -0ubuntu0.7.04~ppa1 to feisty
[21:17] <LaserJock> with it take the second upload?
[21:17] <LaserJock> *will
[21:17]  * persia thinks $(acceptable target Ubuntu version)~$(hint)$(index) should always be safe.
[21:17] <asac> thats fine ... 0.7.10 is always higher than 0.7.04
[21:17] <LaserJock> right
[21:18] <LaserJock> but you're uploading the higher first
[21:18] <LaserJock> will it separate them properly?
[21:18] <Fujitsu> PPA doesn't version-ratchet.
[21:18] <asac> yeah ... but since one goes to gutsy and the other goes to feisty its fine
[21:18] <Fujitsu> And I doubt it ever will, between releases.
[21:18] <asac> they don't clash
[21:18] <LaserJock> ah, ok
[21:18] <persia> LaserJock: PPA isn't smart enough to cause that problem
[21:18] <Fujitsu> persia: That feature is coming soon.
[21:18] <Fujitsu> 1.1.12, IIRC.
[21:18] <norsetto> proppy: try this: DEB_BUILDDIR = $(DEB_SRCDIR)/build/linux
[21:19] <LaserJock> so as long as the versions aren't identical then I should be fine
[21:19] <persia> Fujitsu: Ummm...  How should it be done then?
[21:19] <asac> its the same in the official archive btw
[21:19] <LaserJock> asac: sure but the official archives are separate repos
[21:19] <Fujitsu> persia: I suspect it won't ever version-ratchet between different releases, but we'll see.
[21:19] <LaserJock> although I guess it's the same pool
[21:20]  * persia hopes that getting smarter in terms of versions is linked to getting smarter in terms of releases
[21:20] <asac> LaserJock: ppa is pretty much the same as theofficial repos ... all share the same pool
[21:20] <asac> you just have to take care that you only include the same orig.tar.gz once
[21:20] <persia> asac: Doesn't that cause an issue if I upload a ~ppa firefox?
[21:20] <asac> i am not sure but i would guess that if you first upload to gutsy and then to feisty you need to build for feisty with -si
[21:20] <proppy> norsetto: same pb
[21:20] <proppy> norsetto: it failed at compile time
[21:21] <norsetto> proppy: before the include?
[21:21] <proppy> norsetto: nop
[21:21] <asac> persia: aeh ... one pool per user/team ... if that is what you ask
[21:21] <proppy> norsetto: same if I put it before
[21:21] <asac> and yes ... if you do your own firefox build and come up with a different orig.tar.gz that has the same version it might be confusing at least
[21:21] <persia> asac: Right.  That makes sense.  I was confused by "all share the same pool".
[21:21] <norsetto> proppy: well, its working for me: /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux CFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CXXFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CPPFLAGS="" LDFLAGS=""
[21:22] <proppy> norsetto: it failed trying to find some error
[21:22] <proppy> norsetto: on ssh ?
[21:22] <persia> asac: No worries: I'm not likely to PPA firefox :)
[21:22] <norsetto> proppy: thats the way the make command its executed; no, local
[21:22] <proppy> norsetto: root@juce:/home/www/juce-1.45# /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux works
[21:22] <ScottK2> persia: Compared to PPAing ooo 3 times, firefox would be nothing.
[21:22] <LaserJock> alright, well I screwed up my first upload, but I think I can fix it later
[21:22] <proppy> norsetto: root@juce:/home/www/juce-1.45# /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux CFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CXXFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CPPFLAGS="" LDFLAGS=""
[21:22] <proppy> don't
[21:23] <proppy> norsetto: yep I've seen that it's the way cdbs call make
[21:23] <persia> ScottK2: Sure.  For packages that complex, with dedicated people working on them closely, sending patches after local sbuilding makes more sense.
[21:24] <ScottK2> persia: The comment wasn't random though, someone did that last week,
[21:24] <persia> ScottK2: I well remember :)
[21:24] <persia> (At least two of the three FTBFS in 30 minutes or so)
[21:24] <LaserJock> hmm
[21:24] <ScottK2> OK.  It's been a busy week here so far.
[21:25] <LaserJock> it looks to me like the PPA buildds are not building anything
[21:25] <proppy> norsetto: it works for you for juce or for another package ?
[21:27] <norsetto> proppy: juce, you are missing a builddep on cdbs btw
[21:28] <cyberix> I packaged a piece of software and I'm currently planning to submit it to REVU, but first some questions.
[21:29] <cyberix> If the package is advocated by MOTUs and it gets included in Ubuntu.
[21:29] <cyberix> Can I then post updates to it?
[21:29] <LaserJock> through a sponsor sure
[21:30] <imbrandon> cyberix, sure as long as you go through a sponsor ( untill you our self becomes a MOTU )
[21:30] <persia> cyberix: Yes, although any changes must go through a review queue.  For small patches, you'll ask for sponsorship of the patch.  For big changes (new upstream, etc.) you may need to re-REVU
[21:30] <cyberix> So I will have to post each update through a sponsor unless I'm a MOTU myself?
[21:30] <imbrandon> yes
[21:31] <imbrandon> any MOTU can be a sponsor though
[21:31] <cyberix> The sponsor is a MOTU and advocating the package is equal to being a sponsoR?
[21:31] <imbrandon> yes
[21:31] <persia> cyberix: The process is fairly simple.  Just create a bug, attach the patch, and subscribe a team.  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing discusses the patch preparation and sponsoring process under "Preparing New Revisions".
[21:32] <proppy> norsetto: fixed thanks
[21:33] <cyberix> This makes me feel I'd like to make the package perfect so I'd never have to touch it after being included.
[21:33] <cyberix> I know this sounds wrong
[21:33] <norsetto> proppy: also you don't need build-essentials as a build-dep
[21:34] <persia> proppy: linda can help with these, as can lintian :)
[21:34] <LaserJock> cyberix: well, it's good to have a good package to start with ;-)
[21:34] <cyberix> I'm talking about additions
[21:34] <persia> cyberix: We'd prefer that, but it's known to be impossible :)
[21:34] <LaserJock> cyberix: but after a package has made it into Universe it's much easer to make changes
[21:34] <proppy> norsetto: I need g++ instead ?
[21:34] <cyberix> e.g. an added man page
[21:35] <cyberix> It doesn't make the package suck
[21:35] <persia> cyberix: There need to be man pages for everything prior to inclusion
[21:35] <proppy> persia: yep, I've not produced binary yet, could I run lintian/linda  on source package ?
[21:35] <LaserJock> how do I get the error code? i.e. to check --compare-versions otput?
[21:35] <norsetto> proppy: no, build-essential is part of the base installation
[21:35] <persia> proppy: Yep.  Just run it on the .dsc
[21:35] <superm1_> LaserJock, i usually do a quick shell script that checks it in an if block
[21:35] <cyberix> persia: Even when the original software doesn't have?
[21:35] <persia> LaserJock: dpkg --conpare-versions foo bar || echo Failed!
[21:35] <LaserJock> cyberix: no but it can make using the program suck if there's no man page
[21:36] <superm1_> persia, you need a foo OP bar actually
[21:36] <persia> cyberix: Yep.  That's part of the maintainer's job: to fix the upstream oversights, and send the patches back.
[21:36] <persia> superm1_: Right.  It's been a while :)
[21:36] <Fujitsu> persia: Speaking of lintian: a full run over multiverse took just under an hour on this really bad machine, so universe shouldn't take longer than about 48 hours.
[21:36] <cyberix> LaserJock: Yes, but in mycase command line is not really used.
[21:36] <superm1_> persia, i only know because i had to use it earlier today :)
[21:36] <cyberix> I'm just thinking it might be nice to add such extra comfor
[21:36] <cyberix> t
[21:36] <proppy> norsetto: ok
[21:36] <LaserJock> cyberix: then it should have a very simple man page
[21:36] <LaserJock> :-)
[21:37] <persia> Fujitsu: Cool!  Will this be on the same site as debcheck, or somewhere else
[21:37] <cyberix> :-P
[21:37] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: we should have a lintian.ubuntu.com or something
[21:37] <persia> LaserJock: Yes, but that requires DC access.  debcheck, rcbugs, mdt, etc. all belong there as well.
[21:37] <LaserJock> well yes
[21:38] <LaserJock> I think we need to change that
[21:38] <proppy> persia: thanks
[21:38] <imbrandon> wow can anyone else make heads or tails about what the guy on -motu ML is asking ?
[21:38] <Fujitsu> persia: It's on another machine, but the result will be synced to the same server.
[21:38] <LaserJock> imbrandon: which one?
[21:38] <proppy> norsetto: so only deps to cdbs + debhelpers for the building part ?
[21:38]  * cyberix just packaged Progress Quest ( http://progressquest.com/ )
[21:38] <cyberix> I think asking for a man page is a bit much
[21:38]  * Fujitsu thinks we need something like debian.net.
[21:38] <cyberix> ;-)
[21:38] <proppy> norsetto: I guess cdbs also depends of debhelprs
[21:38] <cyberix> Don't you :-)
[21:38]  * persia considers bumping https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-July/001826.html with updated URLs
[21:38] <imbrandon> LaserJock, the one from jose.biscaya@gmail.com
[21:39] <bddebian> Heya gang
[21:39] <norsetto> proppy: yes + whatever library is needed by that particular software
[21:39] <Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
[21:39] <bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
[21:39] <persia> Fujitsu: The closest we ever cam was ubuntuwire, but there seemed to be a succession of HW failures :(
[21:39] <persia> hey bddebian
[21:39] <bddebian> Heya persia
[21:39] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[21:39] <Fujitsu> Hm, I guess the domain is still around.
[21:39] <bddebian> persia: I just stuck a new version of boswars in svn.  It seems to be working well so I hope we upload
[21:39] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[21:39] <LaserJock> imbrandon: oh yeah ... that one
[21:40] <imbrandon> persia, we're working on getting ubuntuwire back arround, its just taking soem time and planning
[21:40] <LaserJock> well
[21:40] <persia> bddebian: Cool!  I'll take a deeper look at the other stratagus scenarios this weekend: perhaps we can drop them.
[21:40] <imbrandon> so this dosent happen again
[21:40] <Fujitsu> He appears to be asking us how to code using some random library.
[21:40] <persia> imbrandon: Understood, and no pressure.  Thanks for what was and will be.
[21:40] <LaserJock> I think that people.ubuntu.com at least could have this stuff
[21:40] <bddebian> persia: Yeah, apparently stratagus was just the engine which is dead upstream but is now integrated in the boswars packages
[21:41] <persia> LaserJock: p.u.c is easier: just poke an employee
[21:41] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I don't think rookery would like having debcheck and lintian much - they're fairly CPU-intensive.
[21:41] <Fujitsu> In the case of debcheck, very.
[21:41] <LaserJock> well, whatever
[21:41] <LaserJock> but there's clearly a need for such things
[21:41] <persia> bddebian: Right.  Just in the interest of preserving user experience, I want to make sure that all the other scenarios based on stratagus 2.1 are dead / broken.
[21:42] <LaserJock> even if we run stuff locally and then copy over the results
[21:42] <imbrandon> persia, a employee of what? ubuntu employs no one :) if you mean canonical maybe it should be people.canonical.com :)
[21:42] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: You'd think so, but apparently not.
[21:42] <persia> imbrandon: Hasn't that debate already happened on the mailing lists?  I agree, but it's legacy.
[21:42] <LaserJock> yes
[21:42] <cyberix> Please "re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants [s/]you[/me/] upload rights to REVU."
[21:43] <LaserJock> and there was some work being done on it last I saw in the thread
[21:43] <imbrandon> persia, it has but untill its changed there is no debate, its pretty dry and cut
[21:43] <ScottK2> LaserJock: The work is finished
[21:43] <Fujitsu> ScottK2: What happened?
[21:43] <ScottK2> Changed urls from upid to sourcepackage name, so the per package url is now stable in REVU.
[21:44] <LaserJock> I thought they were going to set up an LP sshkey authentication thingy like imbrandon had for ubuntuwire
[21:44] <LaserJock> no cron access though
[21:44] <imbrandon> LaserJock, no idea, they are? that would be nice
[21:44]  * persia thinks that would be nice
[21:44] <Fujitsu> No cron? WTF?
[21:44] <imbrandon> crontab -e is hard to restrict
[21:44] <LaserJock> don't you guys read your mail??
[21:45] <persia> Fujitsu: no cron isn't that bad.  Run local cron, and put it.
[21:45] <Fujitsu> I guess.
[21:45] <persia> LaserJock: which list?
[21:45] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Where?
[21:45] <LaserJock> -devel
[21:45] <LaserJock> I emailed the CC
[21:45] <imbrandon> LaserJock, where ?
[21:45]  * persia didn't see it
[21:45] <LaserJock> bah, gimme a sec to find it
[21:45] <imbrandon> me neither
[21:45]  * Fujitsu sees the thread.
[21:45]  * persia requests a rough date range
[21:45] <Fujitsu> But I don't think I saw the final result, or maybe I didn't think it memorable.
[21:45] <Fujitsu> persia: Late September.
[21:46] <Fujitsu> Oh, right, that.
[21:46] <imbrandon> ???
[21:46] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's not a `we are going to'
[21:46] <Fujitsu> No shell access, hm...
[21:47] <imbrandon> sshkey but no shell , umm
[21:47] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Like bazaar.launchpad.net.
[21:47] <LaserJock> yes
[21:48] <imbrandon> so we would push content there how? bzr ?
[21:48] <imbrandon> sftp?
[21:48] <LaserJock> sftp
[21:48] <persia> sftp works fine, or scp
[21:49] <LaserJock> it's just basically storage space
[21:49] <LaserJock> we can petition harder I guess, but that's what I got
[21:49] <Fujitsu> Yeah, that's what it seems to say.
[21:50] <LaserJock> the good news was that the CC seemed open to the idea
[21:50] <LaserJock> mako and mdke anyway
[21:50] <imbrandon> thats all and good , but when .... heh
[21:50] <Fujitsu> I don't see why they can't have something like Debian does. Heck, even the LoCos have some people with shell access, and we should be implicitly more trustworthy.
[21:50] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Neither of them are Canonical employees.
[21:50]  * LaserJock calls a strike!!!!
[21:50] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: so?
[21:50] <persia> OK.  For tools, is there anything we want other than: 1) debcheck, 2) lintian/linda, 3) rcbugs, 4) mdt, 5), universe-problems.txt, 6) occasional piuparts runs, 7) occasional rebuilds (w/upload)
[21:51] <Fujitsu> persia: With upload? I can't see that happening in the next few years.
[21:51] <Fujitsu> If we had a proper binNMU process, possibly.
[21:51] <Fujitsu> But even then..
[21:52] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Right.  Hrm.  How to recognise things that need a rebuild...
[21:52] <Fujitsu> persia: Yeah, exactly.
[21:53] <norsetto_> proppy: I think I got it
[21:53] <Fujitsu> What do we want the uploading rebuilds to achieve?
[21:54] <persia> Fujitsu: e.g. when there is a change in build tools, or a new feature (icon caching, etc.) it would be nice to have everything catch up.
[21:55] <proppy> norsetto_: you're right, maybe I should just use debhelper
[21:55] <Fujitsu> Right, not sure what to do about that.
[21:55] <cyberix> Can I somehow check, if I've been added into the REVU keyring?
[21:55] <norsetto_> proppy: its not a cdbs problem
[21:56] <norsetto_> proppy: actually, it is and it isn't ....
[21:56] <persia> cyberix: It takes a while to sync, and it's really hard to check (it's easier to just sync again).  Once you've asked for a sync, wait a bit.  If one of the admins is around, they'll annouce they are syncing.  If nobody gets back to you, wait ~6 hours, and ask again.
[21:57] <imbrandon> i'll sync int now
[21:57] <imbrandon> it*
[21:57] <norsetto_> proppy: are you with me or wandering as usual?
[21:57] <LaserJock> norsetto_: ;-)
[21:57] <proppy> norsetto_: wandering ?
[21:58] <norsetto_> LaserJock: <rolling eyes>
[21:58] <proppy> norsetto_: hey that's my word :)
[21:58] <proppy> norsetto_:  To move about without a definite destination or purpose.
[21:58] <cyberix> imbrandon: May I just try running dput once in a while?
[21:58] <norsetto_> proppy: did you see what I said?
[21:58] <proppy> norsetto_: yep it's not a cdbs problem
[21:58] <LaserJock> cyberix: he'll tell you when he's done
[21:58] <persia> cyberix: Just wait.  imbrandon will announce when it's complete
[21:58] <imbrandon> cyberr i'm running the sync now, give it ~30 miutes
[21:58] <norsetto_> proppy: ok, look at the crappy upstream makefile
[21:59] <proppy> norsetto_: it's generated from a lua script if you wonder :)
[21:59] <norsetto_> proppy: you see how they define CPPFLAGS ?
[21:59] <proppy> norsetto_: it's only a proxy for JUCE.make
[21:59] <proppy> :=
[21:59] <norsetto_> proppy: there is a variable that is passed to make, called LINUX
[21:59] <proppy> norsetto_: it means CFLAGS has to be unassigned
[22:00] <norsetto_> proppy: if LINUX=1 then it will use the linux headers
[22:00] <proppy> norsetto_: yep
[22:00] <norsetto_> proppy: but, since you assign it, that variable is not set,and the compilation fails as it is looking for MAC headers ....
[22:00] <proppy> norsetto_: my guess is that there is a lot of #ifdef LINUX in the code
[22:01] <proppy> norsetto_: yep
[22:01] <norsetto_> proppy: indeed
[22:01] <proppy> norsetto_: so s/:=/+=/
[22:01]  * ScottK2 shuts down to leave UDS....
[22:01] <proppy> norsetto_: should do it ?
[22:01] <cyberix> imbrandon: Ok. Thanks.
[22:01] <proppy> ScottK2: have a good flight
[22:01] <Fujitsu> ScottK2: Aw, why?
[22:01] <ScottK2> Fujitsu: Not funded to be here.  Two days is enough fun for free.
[22:01] <norsetto_> proppy: so, either pass LINUX=1 to make yourself, or try to use the crappy configure used by upstream (the lua stuff ....)
[22:02] <proppy> norsetto_: that's why we get a different behaviour only if we assign CPPFLAGS before calling make
[22:02] <proppy> norsetto_: that's logic !
[22:02] <ScottK2> Going out to dinner tonight with my brother that lives nearby and then going home in the morning.
[22:02] <ScottK2> proppy: Thanks (train actually though).
[22:02] <norsetto_> proppy: yes, so, I would try the first one, just to check if we are correct, and then lets include their configure script to do it properly
[22:02] <proppy> norsetto_: thanks a lot
[22:03] <Fujitsu> ScottLij: Aha.
[22:03] <Fujitsu> Bah.
[22:03] <LaserJock> lol
[22:03] <proppy> norsetto_: you mean including the configure script to get CPPFLAGS +='ed ?
[22:04] <norsetto_> proppy: yes, but first lets try to pass LINUX=1 directly, without messing with the configure stage
[22:05] <proppy> norsetto_: thanks for the help
[22:05] <norsetto_> proppy: np, but this isn't going to be easy ;-)
[22:06] <norsetto_> proppy: you may want to check some of the stuff in Makefile and JUCE.make already, for instance I see thinks like DEBUG and RELEASE etc.
[22:12] <proppy> norsetto_: yep I noticed that, there is a lot of variable to get set before actually calling the make rule
[22:13] <norsetto_> proppy: well, we will come to that, now lets just check what happens if we pass LINUX=1 to make
[22:15] <proppy> norsetto_: let me check
[22:16] <norsetto_> proppy: I think you should just set CPPFLAGS to LINUX=1
[22:16] <proppy> norsetto_: I was thinkin about patching JUCE.make to make a +=
[22:17] <norsetto_> proppy: we may need that at the end, but lets just try passing this thing first, to make sure we are right
[22:17] <proppy> norsetto_: /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux CFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CXXFLAGS="-g -Wall -O2" CPPFLAGS="LINUX=1" LDFLAGS=""  -k clean
[22:17] <proppy> m
[22:17] <proppy> norsetto_: same pb
[22:17] <norsetto_> proppy: right
[22:18] <norsetto_> proppy: using DEB_OPT_FLAG ?
[22:18] <proppy> norsetto_: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/fec2ed41d9fa
[22:20] <proppy> norsetto_: but if I call /usr/bin/make  -C ./build/linux CPPFLAGS="LINUX=1"
[22:20] <proppy> norsetto_: I get the same error
[22:20] <norsetto_> proppy: manually you mean?
[22:20] <proppy> yep
[22:20] <norsetto_> try with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS += LINUX=1
[22:21] <proppy> either defining the CPPFLAGS outside (manually) or inside rules
[22:21] <proppy> ok
[22:21] <proppy> norsetto_: same pb
[22:21] <proppy> norsetto_: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/3ad313db0d7d
[22:22] <norsetto_> proppy: ok, in any case, its something like this which is causing the error
[22:22] <proppy> norsetto_: ok thanks for the input
[22:22] <proppy> norsetto_: I will dig that up
[22:22] <norsetto_> proppy: try deleting the @ from the make call so that at least we get an echo to check
[22:24] <proppy> norsetto_: btw there is something I should work on: you managed to call it manually and I don't
[22:24] <norsetto_> proppy: I also think we have another problem, there is no premake in ubuntu
[22:25] <davf_> Anyone can help me. I just need to recompile zd121rw because I had to apply a patch. Is it possible to just compile that module?
[22:25] <davf_> sorry zd1211rw
[22:25] <proppy> norsetto_: btw the way it is called
[22:25] <proppy> norsetto_: there is no way that JUCE.make get the CPPFLAGS
[22:25] <proppy> norsetto_: it's called from another make
[22:26] <norsetto_> proppy: we have a bigger problem right now
[22:26] <proppy> norsetto_: If they're not in the environment I guess they are not passed
[22:26] <proppy> norsetto_: do we really need to regenerate Makefile ?
[22:27] <norsetto_> proppy:either that or we have to patch it
[22:27] <proppy> norsetto_: my guess it that he use premake only for syntax sugar
[22:27] <proppy> norsetto_: not really for configure business
[22:30] <proppy> norsetto_: ho I guess I figure out what you mean
[22:30] <norsetto_> proppy: with this: DEB_MAKE_ENVVARS := "LINUX=1" ?
[22:30] <proppy> norsetto_: patching generate file is evil
[22:31] <norsetto_> proppy: we need to do it sometime
[22:31] <proppy> norsetto_: same
[22:32] <proppy> let me try something :)
[22:33] <cyberix> The documentation says I should run "dput package-version_source.changes"
[22:33] <cyberix> However my package is like package_version_source.changes
[22:34] <cyberix> Do I have a bug somewhere?
[22:35] <cyberix> ..., or is it a bug in the documentation, or are both ways correct?
[22:35] <imbrandon> cyberix, key sync finished, also you want to `dput revu *_source.changes"
[22:35] <imbrandon> not litterly * but fill it in
[22:36]  * cyberix hold his breath
[22:36] <imbrandon> and no its a bug in the doc's
[22:36] <cyberix> s/hold/holds/
[22:36] <imbrandon> you are correct
[22:37] <imbrandon> where exactly in the doc did you see that i'll try to get it changed asap
[22:38] <imbrandon> we have tons of doc's could be refering to anything
[22:38] <cyberix> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[22:38] <imbrandon> cyberix, kk
[22:38] <cyberix> Contribute as an Uploader
[22:38] <cyberix> Uploading it
[22:39] <proppy> norsetto_: I will try call JUCE.make directly
[22:39] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: revu is the default in dput.cf.
[22:39] <cyberix> There it is now -> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
[22:39] <cyberix> I hope I did everything right
[22:39] <cyberix> :-)
[22:39] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea but its always best to get into good habbits
[22:39] <Fujitsu> True.
[22:39] <imbrandon> :P
[22:39] <cyberix> Atleast when it comes to the process
[22:41] <imbrandon> wow the wiki is uber slow or its my connection
[22:42] <proppy> norsetto_: CXXFLAGS := $(CFLAGS) this is also a problem :)
[22:43] <norsetto_> proppy: what happens if you pass CFLAGS=¨¨?
[22:43] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: LP is Slashdotted.
[22:43] <warsocket> hello, got a question, does software need to be stable alpha or beta before its allowed into the universe?
[22:43] <Fujitsu> And I think fridge was Dugg or so.
[22:43] <imbrandon> ahh
[22:43] <warsocket> Im busy with a project myself and im trying to find my way around, thats why i ask
[22:43] <imbrandon> ok wiki updated cyberix, thanks for the catch
[22:44] <proppy> norsetto_: http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/9b709cf3c0d9 works for me
[22:44] <imbrandon> warsocket, mostly we try to stick with stable , there can be exceptions though
[22:44] <proppy> norsetto_: the pb was that cdbs do define CXXFLAGS so all the CPPFLAGS and CFLAGS define get ignored because of the :=
[22:45] <cyberix> No, thanks to you for doing the keyring stuff and guidance
[22:45] <proppy> norsetto_: and since this is C++ only CXXFLAGS is used in the end
[22:45] <norsetto_> proppy: yes, thats whats in all the targets
[22:46] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, whats LP /.'d for? or was it a figure of speach ?
[22:46] <proppy> norsetto_: so the only way we can do it, is by setting CXXFLAGS
[22:47] <proppy> norsetto_: because of the :=
[22:47] <proppy> norsetto_: It's the less intrusive solution I see
[22:48] <norsetto_> proppy: practically, we are by-passing the whole upstream piece of "well crafted" makefile ....
[22:49] <imbrandon> oh wow ubuntu-demon caused this
[22:49] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Yeah.
[22:49] <Fujitsu> With his million-and-one blog posts.
[22:49] <norsetto_> proppy: we would have to pass this -MMD -D "LINUX=1" -D "DEBUG=1" -D "_DEBUG=1" -I "../../" -I "/usr/include" -I "/usr/include/freetype2" -O2 -g -D_DEBUG -ggdb -Wall
[22:49] <proppy> norsetto_: only the FLAGS definition part
[22:50] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, <rolls eyes>
[22:50] <imbrandon> heh
[22:50] <proppy> norsetto_: and also report modification every time upstream update it ?
[22:51] <norsetto_> proppy: just have to make sure what all these DEBUGS flags do, if they are used to printf for instance
[22:51] <norsetto_> proppy: yes, with that makefile system you are at his mercy
[22:52] <proppy> norsetto_: /usr/include/ft2build.h:56:38: error: freetype/config/ftheader.h: No such file or directory
[22:52] <proppy> p
[22:52] <proppy> norsetto_: you're right :)
[22:52] <proppy> norsetto_: so it *is* related to cdbs actually
[22:53] <proppy> norsetto_: if we control the way we call make
[22:53] <proppy> norsetto_: and don't rely on cdbs for this
[22:53] <proppy> norsetto_: we are free "not to define" CXXFLAGS and then get value from the Makefile
[22:53] <proppy> norsetto_: right ?
[22:53] <norsetto_> proppy: don't know, we can try
[22:54] <superm1> Fujitsu, fridge got dugg for mythbuntu mentions today
[22:54] <Fujitsu> superm1: Ah.
[22:55] <Fujitsu> So, the DC is taking a few requests.
[22:55] <superm1> yeah a few
[22:55] <superm1> are they both in the same DC though?
[22:55] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: that doesn't matter when ubuntu is sneaking in at night & strangling your hard drive
[22:55] <Fujitsu> Yeah, but generally different connections.
[22:55] <proppy> norsetto_: that's what I've done with http://hg.juce.aminche.com/rev/a18fc2f96039
[22:55] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Ah, true.
[22:55] <proppy> norsetto_: what do you think ?
[22:56] <cyberix> Btw, is there some proces which guarantees that my package will finally be reviewed by some-one, or do I have to actively look for reviewers?
[22:56] <norsetto_> proppy: if I were you I would go for debhelper, but thats just me
[22:56] <imbrandon> cyberix, imho its best to actively look but on the same hand not pester
[22:57] <norsetto_> proppy: I found cdbs its a waste of time but for the simpler packages
[22:57] <imbrandon> there are "REVU days" but thats no garentee for "your [package"
[22:57] <imbrandon> see what i mean ?
[22:57] <proppy> norsetto_: can you help me to get past my fear of 20 x dh_* line I don't know a clue ?
[22:58] <proppy> norsetto_: read the man ?
[22:58] <proppy> norsetto_: copy a working example, or generate it with dh_make ?
[22:58] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, btw dapper --> gutsy is a huge mess, i'm still recovering that compter in the background
[22:58] <norsetto_> proppy: whats the problem? its just a makefile
[22:58] <cyberix> imbrandon: Would finding a mentor make any sense?
[22:58] <zul> imbrandon: thats why its not supported
[22:58] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Lovely. We've got a bit of work to do, then.
[22:58] <imbrandon> cyberix, if you ultimate goal is to become a MOTU yes, if this is just a one off package no
[22:59] <proppy> norsetto_: and don't know which helper to call when ?
[22:59] <norsetto_> proppy: let me give you an example
[22:59] <imbrandon> zul but i tried it because we DO support dapper --> hardy and we got to start someqwhwre
[22:59] <cyberix> K. Have to think about it.
[22:59] <zul> imbrandon: ah i see
[23:00] <imbrandon> Fujitsu, yea mostly the python 2.4 --> 2.5 issues AND sysinitv --> upstart issues
[23:00] <imbrandon> but tons of other smaller ones too
[23:01] <norsetto_> proppy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rutilt; at least I know what is in there
[23:02] <proppy> norsetto_: dget http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10129897/rutilt_0.15-0ubuntu6.dsc don't work
[23:02] <proppy> norsetto_: but I will look the diff.gz
[23:03] <norsetto_> proppy: man debhelper is a good starting point, after a while you will remember them all by heart
[23:04] <proppy> norsetto: ok
[23:04] <proppy> norsetto: the binary-arch is scary for now
[23:04] <norsetto> proppy: its pretty simple actually
[23:05] <norsetto> proppy: you see, the first two are testing (that you are in the right dir and that you are root)
[23:05] <proppy> norsetto: once you know what all the dh_ thing make, I definitly agree that the beat-them-all modular approach :)
[23:06] <norsetto> proppy: than you have the installation of some bits (manual, changelog, etc.)
[23:06] <proppy> norsetto: testdir is in each rules
[23:06] <norsetto> proppy: its pretty standard stuff
[23:06] <proppy> norsetto: let me try to output a one
[23:06] <proppy> one
[23:07] <norsetto> proppy: you can also look at the scripts to understand them better, they are much more readable than cdbs
[23:07] <norsetto> proppy: and you have man pages for each one of them
[23:07] <proppy> norsetto: yep
[23:08] <norsetto> proppy: I believe that time spent now to learn this is an investemnt that will repay
[23:08] <proppy> norsetto: yep I guess so
[23:08] <norsetto> proppy: anyhow, its time for me to go
[23:09] <proppy> norsetto: have a good night
[23:09] <norsetto> g'night all
[23:09] <Fujitsu> Night norsetto.
[23:09] <proppy> norsetto: thanks for all the mentoring today
[23:09] <norsetto> proppy: bonne nuit ... a demain ;-)