[00:40] I suppose Riddell is too busy planning the future of kubuntu to deliver me my latest KDE4 fix ;-) [01:00] nosrednaekim: Riddell is out at the pub [01:00] having a Boston Tea party ?;) [01:00] something like that [01:02] is it bad if there is water in the hallway of the floor your room is in? [01:03] jjesse: depends, are you below sea level? [01:04] nosrednaekim: nope above see level [01:04] hopefully they dont end up eating seafood dinner again [01:05] jjesse: then you are good I guess... no worries ;) [01:05] i'm also on the 5th floor, but there is still water outside :) [01:06] oh jjesse is good... really good... [01:06] * Jucato stretches and yawns... [01:06] Jucato: still booting up? [01:06] g'evening [01:06] yeah... :) [01:10] ping: Jucato [01:10] apologies to you [01:10] no worries :) [01:10] * claydoh is relieved [01:10] :P [01:11] Jucato: hey [01:11] sup? [01:12] just woke up.. that's what :) [01:13] :P [01:13] * Hobbsee blip [01:14] Jucato: I hear you are giving up on kubuntu... [01:14] ;-) [01:14] hm? [01:14] or did I read that wrong? [01:14] moin Hobbsee [01:14] hiya [01:15] depends on where/who you heard it from, and what you heard [01:15] Jucato: what? [01:15] Jucato: you? [01:15] Jucato: but you cant!!! [01:15] * Jucato can't confirm or deny... needsinfo [01:16] * Hobbsee too [01:16] Jucato: what? [01:16] Jucato: im confused [01:16] I can't confirm what nosrednaekim said/asked... because I'm not sure of the details [01:16] Jucato: are you even thinking about giving up on kubuntu? [01:16] that and my brain is still booting up [01:17] haha... I just "misread" your blog post that was syndicated on planet.kde [01:17] * Hobbsee whistles [01:17] yes, keep grilling Jucato [01:17] nosrednaekim: what are you talking about [01:17] * Jucato whistles too [01:17] nosrednaekim: :@:@:@:@:@:@ [01:18] * coreymon77 is pissed at nosrednaekim [01:18] nosrednaekim: last paragraph? [01:18] how could you misread that? [01:18] Hobbsee: when can we grill you? :) [01:19] nosrednaekim: next time, think about what youre gonna say before you say it [01:19] Jucato: btw, you just woke up [01:19] Jucato: never :) [01:19] Jucato: and the first thing you do is go on irc? [01:19] isn't that what we all do ? [01:19] no. actually I was already awake for more than 15 minutes before I turned on the PC... then checked mail and feeds first, before going online :) [01:19] I'm kidding!!!! [01:20] and i'm very laggy right now.. [01:20] sorry! [01:20] you're not joking about being laggy.. [01:21] (still no ping reply) [01:22] [CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from nosrednaekim: 130 seconds. [01:22] Jucato: hmm... does she have upload rights to Debian? [01:23] * ryanakca wonders if Debian grills their want-to-be-maintainers before letting them in [01:23] uh, yes [01:23] wow [01:23] have you never heard of am and such? [01:23] nosrednaekim: 40 seconds [01:23] nope :P [01:23] they grill them a lot more than ubuntu does I believe :) [01:23] other than AM radio... [01:23] hehe [01:25] Ante Meridian... [01:26] holy cow [01:26] nosrednaekim is 40 seconds lag [01:26] nosrednaekim: why so laggy [01:26] stop downloading the p)rn [01:26] lol [01:28] 26K dial-up + a brother who is downloading [01:28] yikes! [01:29] = laggggg [01:29] I can't imagine surviving on dial up anymore... [01:30] yeah...... sorry about the confusion too :P [01:32] its hard... when I go to my brother's university I have fun! +) [01:34] hm.. is the kdesudo bug fix already in the main repos? [02:16] wow almost odne w/ building kde4 on my laptop :) [02:16] New ATI Linux drivers outperform Windows ones :) [02:16] yay [02:16] yay [02:17] um.. I don't use ATI... boo! [02:17] me either [02:17] use nviida [02:18] ditto [02:19] have they ever outperformed Windows? [02:26] OK, I take back everything I ever said about Compiz and KDE [02:26] it sucks on openSUSE, Fedora, and Kubuntu [02:27] :) [02:27] mandriva? [02:27] * Jucato runs [02:27] hi nixternal!!! [02:28] to lazy to download all of them cds [02:28] howdy [02:28] Compiz works when it wants to [02:28] it doesn't play nice on startup all of the time either [02:28] kompmgr ftw! hheheh [02:29] I do have to say though, the people who developed it, are brilliant though [02:29] I was just looking at everything, and it couldn't have been easy [02:30] works fine on gnome, i'm afraid. [02:30] kwin4 ftw! [02:30] wait [02:30] kwin-4 ? [02:31] it was made with gnome in mind :) [02:31] that it was [02:31] I will say that KDE 4 with composite runs better though for KDE [02:34] and while I am harping, let me harp on ODBC in Linux...need I say more? [02:34] sure. I get my turn in a few days :) [02:34] hehe [02:35] I can sit there and sling commands at an Access DB using isql all day long, but as soon as I try it with ODBC, it is a no go [02:36] * Jucato will not tell nixternal that he knows nothing about db's :) [02:40] Whats LUKS? [02:40] do we ship with it? [02:40] I did access ODBC [02:40] it's not a out of the box solution [02:41] nixternal: any news on beta4? [02:44] haven't had a chance to work on it much tonight [02:44] no problem. understandable. we're at UDS... [02:44] darn KDE guys couldn't wait after UDS! [02:51] * Jucato sighs... [02:52] !deb [02:52] deb is the Debian package format, also used by Ubuntu. To install .deb files, simply double-click on them (Ubuntu) or right-click and select Kubuntu Package Menu->install (Kubuntu) [02:52] that needs updated by someone who knows how [02:53] interesting...I didn't setup Compiz to autostart with KDE, but it is :/ [02:54] Riddell: Hobbsee keeps taking my editor powers away [02:54] :D [02:54] what do you want it set to? [02:54] %editors [02:54] Riddell: you can change it, you are an editor :) [02:55] nixternal: I "may" change it, doesn't mean I can [02:55] hehe [02:55] interseting in my kde4 build on my laptop i can't switch users or logout, any one else having problems? [02:55] Hobbsee: juct click on it in Kubuntu [02:55] that's what i thought [02:55] jjesse: that depends on what kdm you're using [02:55] well, logout shouldn't [02:57] Riddell: kdm with gutsy? [02:57] Riddell: update it yourself :) [02:57] !no deb is the Debian package format, also used by Ubuntu. To install .deb files, simply double-click (in Ubuntu) or click (in Kubuntu) on them to start the GDebi utility. [02:57] I'll remember that Jucato [02:57] There we go :) [02:57] !deb [02:57] deb is the Debian package format, also used by Ubuntu. To install .deb files, simply double-click (in Ubuntu) or click (in Kubuntu) on them to start the GDebi utility. [02:58] !snack | Jucato [02:58] Sorry, I don't know anything about snack - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [02:58] !helpersnack | Jucato [02:58] Jucato: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie! [02:58] :/ [02:59] Riddell: sorry for being stupid, but my problem w/ logging out and switching user is because of the version of kdm i'm using? [03:00] * Jucato chuckles at how some people in #kubuntu answer "how to install ".... [03:00] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=898&num=1 [03:00] Answer: "sudo apt-get install synaptic" [03:00] Yep [03:00] at least 40% of the time [03:00] another 35% is NEVER USE ADEPT apt-get/aptitude [03:00] * dasKreech likes Adept [03:01] * dasKreech grumbles [03:01] Sweet new Cd is out [03:03] * Jucato tries to count the number of comments, just about the name "Okteta" [03:09] don't you just love when compiz crashes your machine, even when you tell it not to load? [03:09] if we want Compiz in Hardy, we have a lot of work to do unfortunately [03:09] lovely :) [03:09] :) [03:09] I am sitting in tty1 right now [03:09] * dasKreech still wonders why we want compiz [03:10] * nixternal too [03:10] but then again, the users are the ones who want it [03:10] they are the most important! [03:10] because it's a spec to catch up to gutsy features? [03:10] the spec we talked about today? [03:10] they have a package [03:10] hardy catchup [03:10] let em install it [03:11] so we are stripping compiz? [03:11] I can think of a compromise. we can make it easy for them to install compiz.. but we have to tell them that Compiz-KDE integration sucks... so we can't really support it much.. then forward them to #compiz-fusion :P [03:11] * Jucato is eeevil [03:13] I concur [03:27] so any idea on how to resolve my prolblem w/ kdm and login? [03:27] also is kdm the reason the panel still shows along w/ the kde4 panel? [03:46] dasKreech: because compiz is kinda cool [03:46] dasKreech: and doesnt appear to drain resources [03:46] And we are dumping it the release after that? [03:47] why would we? [03:47] compiz-kde is easy to install [03:48] cause Kwin ships with compositing in KDE4? [03:49] dunno [03:49] people might want compiz, for some strange reason [03:51] sure [03:51] I have no issues with that :) [03:51] make it easy to install [03:52] and, the cube is cool [03:52] and the zoom can be quite useful - there's actually no real way to easily zoom in in kde, at all [03:53] which is unhelpful, when you zoom an image, and it becomse massively pixelated [03:57] dasKreech: that's the idea, make it easy to install and have it actually work, not have it by default [03:58] Hobbsee: are you at UDS? [03:58] ah [03:58] yuriy: nope [03:58] anyone following the Gobby at UDS ? [03:58] dasKreech: or at least that's what i got out of today's meeting [03:58] Does that mean we maintain compiz-kde ? [03:59] not sure, and not sure who's "we" [04:03] Kubuntu [04:05] not sure. the results of the BoF seemed a bit wishywashy to me, and the spec isn't written up yet (jr wrote down notes). overall not quite what i expected UDS to be like [04:10] yuriy: the sessions differ a lot [04:11] dasKreech: no. technically, MOTU does. i think the compiz people end up maintaining it. [04:11] yuriy: specs tend to only get written up at the end [04:11] Hobbsee: oh. i thought the whole point of the meetings was to flesh out the spec [04:11] *had thought [04:14] yuriy: sure, but the spec is a summary of what's been decided, pretty much [04:20] Hobbsee: #135084 seem been fixed, need upgrade the translation from LP, will we have a SRU [04:20] launchpad bug #135084 [04:20] Launchpad bug 135084 in kdebase "Kicker adds _: Entries in K-menu: to certain programs" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135084 [04:20] nice! [04:21] Hobbsee: we shall poke the correspond lang team to check their translation [04:21] great :) [04:42] * Jucato sighs [04:43] Sup Jucato ? [04:43] nothing much. just like sighing a lot :) [04:43] he's contemplating publishing his blog post [04:43] or actually finishing it :) [04:44] * Jucato is editing the first half... too long :D [04:45] has anyone ever been chased out of Kubuntu before? :) [04:45] no [04:45] with pitchforks and torches? [04:45] i dont think so [04:45] heheh :) [04:47] * dasKreech is working on it they just won't take the hint!!! [04:48] better work faster. I might overtake you [04:54] * dasKreech blocks Jucato's way with torches [04:54] * Jucato skreeches.. [04:55] rawr... Google API for social networking? google's becoming scary :) [04:57] sorry what now? [04:57] who did they buy? [04:57] no one [04:58] their own API. although Google does own Orkut [04:59] Oh yeah [04:59] Isn't that more portugese networking ? [04:59] Oh lord [04:59] They dropped ODF [05:00] who did? [05:00] the ODF [05:00] ODF dropped ODF? [05:01] Yeah [05:01] They want to use CDF now [05:01] O.o [05:01] link please? [05:02] http://fussnotes.typepad.com/plexnex/2007/10/cdf-disrupting-.html [05:04] hm... the OpenDocument Foundations isn't the "holder" of ODF though afaik [05:06] Yeah but it still sucks [05:06] only if the OD Foundation has a majority hold over ODF development... we still haven't heard from the other major players... [05:08] It sucks :) [05:11] :P [05:16] having multiple "standards" all based on the idea of interoperabilty sucks [05:17] well as far as we're concerned, ODF is the only ISO standard... [05:23] Stupid w3c [05:49] Night [07:04] Hobbsee: almost finished :/ [07:04] :) [07:04] hi all [07:04] hi [07:06] Hobbsee: I just jinxed myself because of that.. lost my train of thought [08:07] Hobbsee: done :) [08:08] <_StefanS_> morning [08:08] now to decide whether I should actually post it or not :) [08:08] hi _StefanS_! [08:08] <_StefanS_> so how are you all doing ? :) [08:08] semi-fine? :) [08:08] <_StefanS_> silence before hardy.. [08:08] <_StefanS_> or storm :D [08:08] * Jucato is brewing up a storm :) [08:13] Jucato: yay! [08:13] Jucato: i say so. [08:13] hahah [08:14] I have taken blonting to a new level... [08:15] oh well, here goes nothing and everything... === apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger [08:17] raphink: hi [08:18] hi freeflying [08:19] hm... why doesn't the fridge's UDS report have the Kubuntu BoF? [08:19] it was on Day 2 right? [08:26] * Jucato goes for a nap while waiting for the fallout :) [08:42] raphink: so long haven't seen you, how are you :) [08:56] <_buz> is there a hardy wishlist somewhere? [09:01] I'm fine thanks freeflying [09:01] how about you? [09:02] me too :) [09:02] ok :) [09:03] just quite a lot of work ;) [09:12] Jucato: this, of course, relies on the canonical spec people accepting various specs [09:13] Jucato: and not being focussed on getting kubuntu up to ubuntu [09:50] good morning [09:51] Jucato: I find your blog post a bit too abstract [09:51] Jucato: I can see what you mean by "becoming a KDE maintainers team", but not really what you mean by "separation" [09:53] which concepts, values or technical decisions of the Ubuntu distribution should we separate from? [09:54] surely not the stable release cycle, seeing as other projects (koffice) now benefits from our cycle [09:54] and I personally like the idea of having as few wizards and pop-ups as possible, I like things to work automagically without wizards [10:04] mhb: sorry just woke up from a nap. I'll get back to you later... [10:04] * Jucato reboots brain [10:04] (usually takes a while...) [10:14] Jucato: and by the way, I have chosen Kubuntu as my distro of choice exactly because of the specialization on KDE. If we became a team like Fedora or Debian has, I would consider "moving on" to some other KDE-centric distro. [10:14] mhb: I only put option 2 as a sort of.. um... slap in the face option? [10:14] hm.. what was I typing again? [10:15] I intentionally made the post a wee bit too abstract. so that people won't focus too much on technical details and probably miss the message. besides, the "separation" I was thinking about is also a bit more abstract than technical. we would still be using LP, we would still probably follow the release schedule (although we probably could be a bit loose on that one) [10:16] Jucato: nice post [10:17] For example, on gutsy, we could have probably waited a bit longer, just to be able to immediately (and "officially") fix the kopete and kdesudo bugs [10:17] Nightrose: thanks :) [10:17] ;-) [10:17] mhb: but I'm quite ok with the 6-month schedule... in fact sometimes I wish KDE released that predictably :) [10:18] hmm, you touched something I would like too, being less dependent on Ubuntu bureaucracy [10:18] * Jucato wonders where the idea about separating release schedules came up though... reading the comments [10:19] well it's the first thing I thought when I read the word "separation" [10:19] mhb: I guess I'm also trying to say is that we somehow stop hoping that Canonical would one day support us more. If sabdfl's answers were any indication, I think that's a done deal already [10:20] hehe tbh, the schedule never came to my mind throughout the whole time I was thinking about this :) [10:20] we probably dont want to split the release cycle [10:21] no [10:21] we don't want to [10:21] most probably not. but probably we could be a bit lenient... but that depends on the situation I guess [10:21] Jucato: actually, I think bugs like those two are blocked by two things [10:22] a) we don't have the rights to change something a some point [10:22] b) we don't have the professionals that would actually concentrate on fixing bugs [10:22] because fixing bugs isn't much fun [10:22] but if you look at comment #1, that view about Kubuntu is somehow a bit prevalent with some users... even if you observe the way some users speak... even if you do !kubuntu right now [10:23] yeah... but for example, with the Kopete bug, Riddel already had the fix just within a day or so... but we weren't able to upload it... users had to resort to manually installing the .deb [10:23] fixing bugs need dedicated Q&A, and we'd need paid devs or really crazy (and skilled) enthusiasts [10:23] and 64-bit users were left out. [10:25] probably even the kmilo bug? :) [10:25] btw mhb, just to warn you (sort of), I saw someone giving an unofficial fix to that kmilo bug... which basically involved downloading feisty's kmilo,extracting it, and manually copying/overwriting the files [10:25] just to fix the 0% - 11% bug... [10:26] Jucato: why warn me? [10:26] er.. inform you I mean... [10:26] there's a fix already right? [10:26] I mean a patch? [10:26] I'm not really sure [10:26] oh I thought the bug was assigned to you. my bad. [10:27] what kmilo bug? [10:27] * Jucato searches for the bug # [10:28] "imho, it is more important to implement new hardy features for Kubuntu than implement all missing features (catchup) from previous releases." -- from Lure... I agree with that... although I couldn't understand what he meant in the 2nd sentence :) [10:29] (From https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup btw) [10:29] I think the second one was the exact opposite of the 1st [10:29] which puzzled me [10:29] Hobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeutils/+bug/127082 [10:29] Launchpad bug 127082 in kdeutils "Kmilo doesn't properly adjust volume" [Undecided,New] [10:30] dunno if this is a duplicate bug, but seems related based on the comments: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeutils/+bug/118723 [10:30] Launchpad bug 118723 in kdeutils "KMilo/Volume Hotkeys regression" [Undecided,Confirmed] [10:32] Hobbsee: do you remember if the default Ubuntu install has pre-defined folderse in $HOME? [10:32] Jucato: actually, there is a couple of distributions that branch off from Debian and Ubuntu and use KDE - but because of the fact that nobody is at sync with KDE, why don't we join forces and do all the maintaining within Debian Unstable (or whichever we branch from) ? [10:32] Jucato: it does [10:32] mhb: apparently there are still a few kubuntu-specific patches - but we do, at least somewhat [10:32] ah [10:33] would be really nice to have the rosetta export patches in debian, where they do nothing, then sync. [10:33] Hobbsee: I haven't understood the last sentence [10:34] rosetta? Isn't that the translation tool? Who is "they"? [10:34] dddddddddddddddd [10:34] ooops. sorry... [10:34] mhb: we cant sync a lot of debian's stuff into our main, as we do extraction to rosetta in ubuntu [10:35] so that patch means we cant sync [10:35] ah rosetta :) [10:37] that sounds like a job for a fairly smart import tool [10:38] Hobbsee: isn't there a pattern which could be used to do such task automagically? [10:38] mhb: no idea, tbh [10:38] i dont follow translations :) [10:38] although i did have my ubuntu in german for a bit [10:39] translations was one of the topics raised in FOSSCamp right? maybe there are good news? [10:39] * Jucato is sure mhb loved the FOSSCamp "decision" about package management :D [10:42] Jucato: you might want to comment on there that you cnat do anything about canonical supporting kubuntu more - that it's the wrong place to petition mark to do so [10:42] Jucato: also, you might want to correct the perception that Riddell is actually a gtk/gnome dev [10:42] Hobbsee: doing that already [10:45] Anything else? :) [10:45] (that you want me to reply to?) [10:46] Jucato: decision? All I heard is that they looked at packagekit and liked it [10:47] and considering it [10:48] Jucato: that changing the release cycle isnt really feasible. [10:48] already done :) [10:48] cool [10:48] hm. [10:48] just waiting to hit Reply [10:48] how many people there are working actively on kubuntu, in development roles [10:48] 1 full time, and maybe...6 in their spare time? 8? i'm not sure [10:49] about that much.. +1 now that jpatrick's back perhaps [10:49] yeah, but the point is for when they bash gutsy, to realise just how many people were in it [10:49] hopefully new blood will be coming in. remember those guys who sprouted after openweek? [10:50] they don't know that. I've encountered users who thought we have a number of paid devs because we're officially supported by Canonical [10:50] (of course I had to explain it to them and they were very understanding after that) [11:01] hopefully [11:01] but we do need to actively recruit them [11:01] yes, hence they need education :) [11:05] new blood is hard to find these days [11:07] we need vampires to suck new blood :) [11:08] that is my idea of having a central place for KDE Debian-Derivatives package maintaining [11:08] we could suck the juice of Debian, Kubuntu, Freespire and many other maintainers [11:09] Jucato: ? [11:09] * Lure reads lot's of trace back [11:10] Lure: your comment in the Catchup spec [11:24] Jucato_: I just wanted to point out that just being in catchup mode is not right approach - we should focus rather on hardy as-is, therefore checking what Ubuntu is doing, and deciding what it makes sense to implement and what not [11:25] Jucato_: rather than spending all the effort implementing features from gutsy (like compiz by default...) [11:25] I see [11:26] * Lure now goes to planet to see "the post" from Jucato ;-) [11:26] uh oh :) [11:30] hm... are we prepared to maintain D3lphin ourselves btw? or does anyone have any news upstream? [11:37] Is it just me or does kwin's window focus suck lately? [11:39] moins all [11:39] moin [11:39] nooo!! suddenly I'm craving for mt.dew again! ncurses! [11:43] xbrb [11:43] new X app? :) [11:57] So does anybody maintain Karm currently? [11:57] I really hope it's going to be in KDE4, too. [11:59] Jucato_: commented on blog [12:06] Lure: by the way, I'm not sure if you're up with the most recent developments on the web site thing, we will soon be replacing the current site with a Drupal install, which will allow a) much easier collaboration (edit rights for more than just jr) b) a nicer theme. [12:06] Lure: we're blocked on Canonical sysadmins now [12:06] mhb: ;-) on new web site, :-( on being blocked on canonical again... [12:07] mhb: are you driving this effort? [12:08] Lure: in a way, ryanakca did a lot of improvements on the theme, though. [12:08] Lure: the C. sysadmins were busy with the Ubuntu release and they now take care of the UDS [12:08] mhb: great to see this moving! [12:09] mhb: yeah, I know they are very busy right now [12:09] mhb: if we had such web page for so long, some additional weeks will not make it much worse ;-) [12:09] Lure: once UDS ends I hope they'll set the Drupal for us [12:09] yeah .o) [12:10] mhb: they have all-hands after uds, so you should probably count another week [12:30] Lure: thanks for the comment [12:30] mhb: I'm excited to see what the new website will look like :) [12:32] Jucato: me too :o) [12:32] yay clown :) [12:34] hi Hobbsee_ (with a tail) === Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee [12:35] :) [12:35] * Hobbsee upgrades to hardy [12:35] * Jucato wonders... [12:35] perhaps I should upgrade vbox as well... [12:36]