[00:40] <nosrednaekim> I suppose Riddell is too busy planning the future of kubuntu to deliver me my latest KDE4 fix ;-)
[01:00] <jjesse> nosrednaekim: Riddell is out at the pub
[01:00] <nosrednaekim> having  a Boston Tea party ?;)
[01:00] <jjesse> something like that
[01:02] <jjesse> is it bad if there is water in the hallway of the floor your room is in?
[01:03] <nosrednaekim> jjesse: depends, are you below sea level?
[01:04] <jjesse> nosrednaekim: nope above see level
[01:04] <Hobbsee> hopefully they dont end up eating seafood dinner again
[01:05] <nosrednaekim> jjesse: then you are good I guess... no worries ;)
[01:05] <jjesse> i'm also on the 5th floor, but there is still water outside :)
[01:06] <Jucato> oh jjesse is good... really good...
[01:06]  * Jucato stretches and yawns...
[01:06] <jjesse> Jucato: still booting up?
[01:06] <Jucato> g'evening
[01:06] <Jucato> yeah... :)
[01:10] <claydoh> ping: Jucato
[01:10] <claydoh> apologies to you
[01:10] <Jucato> no worries :)
[01:10]  * claydoh is relieved
[01:10] <Jucato> :P
[01:11] <coreymon77> Jucato: hey
[01:11] <coreymon77> sup?
[01:12] <Jucato> just woke up.. that's what :)
[01:13] <coreymon77> :P
[01:13]  * Hobbsee blip
[01:14] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: I hear you are giving up on kubuntu...
[01:14] <nosrednaekim> ;-)
[01:14] <Jucato> hm?
[01:14] <nosrednaekim> or did I read that wrong?
[01:14] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee
[01:14] <Hobbsee> hiya
[01:15] <Jucato> depends on where/who you heard it from, and what you heard
[01:15] <coreymon77> Jucato: what?
[01:15] <coreymon77> Jucato: you?
[01:15] <coreymon77> Jucato: but you cant!!!
[01:15]  * Jucato can't confirm or deny... needsinfo
[01:16]  * Hobbsee too
[01:16] <coreymon77> Jucato: what?
[01:16] <coreymon77> Jucato: im confused
[01:16] <Jucato> I can't confirm what nosrednaekim said/asked... because I'm not sure of the details
[01:16] <coreymon77> Jucato: are you even thinking about giving up on kubuntu?
[01:16] <Jucato> that and my brain is still booting up
[01:17] <nosrednaekim> haha... I just "misread" your blog post that was syndicated on planet.kde
[01:17]  * Hobbsee whistles
[01:17] <Hobbsee> yes, keep grilling Jucato
[01:17] <coreymon77> nosrednaekim: what are you talking about
[01:17]  * Jucato whistles too
[01:17] <coreymon77> nosrednaekim: :@:@:@:@:@:@
[01:18]  * coreymon77 is pissed at nosrednaekim
[01:18] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: last paragraph?
[01:18] <Jucato> how could you misread that?
[01:18] <Jucato> Hobbsee: when can we grill you? :)
[01:19] <coreymon77> nosrednaekim: next time, think about what youre gonna say before you say it
[01:19] <coreymon77> Jucato: btw, you just woke up
[01:19] <Hobbsee> Jucato: never :)
[01:19] <coreymon77> Jucato: and the first thing you do is go on irc?
[01:19] <claydoh> isn't that what we all do ?
[01:19] <Jucato> no. actually I was already awake for more than 15 minutes before I turned on the PC... then checked mail and feeds first, before going online :)
[01:19] <nosrednaekim> I'm kidding!!!!
[01:20] <nosrednaekim> and i'm very laggy right now..
[01:20] <nosrednaekim> sorry!
[01:20] <Jucato> you're not joking about being laggy..
[01:21] <Jucato> (still no ping reply)
[01:22] <Jucato> [CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from nosrednaekim: 130 seconds.
[01:22] <ryanakca> Jucato: hmm... does she have upload rights to Debian?
[01:23]  * ryanakca wonders if Debian grills their want-to-be-maintainers before letting them in
[01:23] <Hobbsee> uh, yes
[01:23] <coreymon77> wow
[01:23] <Hobbsee> have you never heard of am and such?
[01:23] <coreymon77> nosrednaekim: 40 seconds
[01:23] <ryanakca> nope :P
[01:23] <Jucato> they grill them a lot more than ubuntu does I believe :)
[01:23] <ryanakca> other than AM radio...
[01:23] <ryanakca> hehe
[01:25] <Jucato> Ante Meridian...
[01:26] <coreymon77> holy cow
[01:26] <coreymon77> nosrednaekim is 40 seconds lag
[01:26] <coreymon77> nosrednaekim: why so laggy
[01:26] <jjesse> stop downloading the p)rn
[01:26] <coreymon77> lol
[01:28] <nosrednaekim> 26K dial-up + a brother who is downloading
[01:28] <Jucato> yikes!
[01:29] <nosrednaekim> = laggggg
[01:29] <Jucato> I can't imagine surviving on dial up anymore...
[01:30] <nosrednaekim> yeah...... sorry about the confusion too :P
[01:32] <nosrednaekim> its hard... when I go to my brother's university I have fun! +)
[01:34] <Jucato> hm.. is the kdesudo bug fix already in the main repos?
[02:16] <jjesse> wow almost odne w/ building kde4 on my laptop :)
[02:16] <dasKreech> New ATI  Linux drivers outperform Windows ones :)
[02:16] <Jucato> yay
[02:16] <Jucato> yay
[02:17] <Jucato> um.. I don't use ATI... boo!
[02:17] <jjesse> me either
[02:17] <jjesse> use nviida
[02:18] <Jucato> ditto
[02:19] <dasKreech> have they ever outperformed Windows?
[02:26] <nixternal> OK, I take back everything I ever said about Compiz and KDE
[02:26] <nixternal> it sucks on openSUSE, Fedora, and Kubuntu
[02:27] <Jucato> :)
[02:27] <Jucato> mandriva?
[02:27]  * Jucato runs
[02:27] <Jucato> hi nixternal!!!
[02:28] <nixternal> to lazy to download all of them cds
[02:28] <nixternal> howdy
[02:28] <nixternal> Compiz works when it wants to
[02:28] <nixternal> it doesn't play nice on startup all of the time either
[02:28] <Jucato> kompmgr ftw! hheheh
[02:29] <nixternal> I do have to say though, the people who developed it, are brilliant though
[02:29] <nixternal> I was just looking at everything, and it couldn't have been easy
[02:30] <Hobbsee> works fine on gnome, i'm afraid.
[02:30] <dasKreech> kwin4 ftw!
[02:30] <dasKreech> wait
[02:30] <dasKreech>  kwin-4 ?
[02:31] <Jucato> it was made with gnome in mind :)
[02:31] <nixternal> that it was
[02:31] <nixternal> I will say that KDE 4 with composite runs better though for KDE
[02:34] <nixternal> and while I am harping, let me harp on ODBC in Linux...need I say more?
[02:34] <Jucato> sure. I get my turn in a few days :)
[02:34] <nixternal> hehe
[02:35] <nixternal> I can sit there and sling commands at an Access DB using isql all day long, but as soon as I try it with ODBC, it is a no go
[02:36]  * Jucato will not tell nixternal that he knows nothing about db's :)
[02:40] <dasKreech> Whats LUKS?
[02:40] <dasKreech> do  we ship with it?
[02:40] <dasKreech> I did access ODBC
[02:40] <dasKreech>  it's not a out of the box solution
[02:41] <Jucato> nixternal: any news on beta4?
[02:44] <nixternal> haven't had a chance to work on it much tonight
[02:44] <Jucato> no problem. understandable. we're at UDS...
[02:44] <Jucato> darn KDE guys couldn't wait after UDS!
[02:51]  * Jucato sighs...
[02:52] <Riddell> !deb
[02:52] <ubotu> deb is the Debian package format, also used by Ubuntu. To install .deb files, simply double-click on them (Ubuntu) or right-click and select Kubuntu Package Menu->install (Kubuntu)
[02:52] <Riddell> that needs updated by someone who knows how
[02:53] <nixternal> interesting...I didn't setup Compiz to autostart with KDE, but it is :/
[02:54] <nixternal> Riddell: Hobbsee keeps taking my editor powers away
[02:54] <nixternal> :D
[02:54] <Hobbsee> what do you want it set to?
[02:54] <nixternal> %editors
[02:54] <nixternal> Riddell: you can change it, you are an editor :)
[02:55] <Riddell> nixternal: I "may" change it, doesn't mean I can
[02:55] <nixternal> hehe
[02:55] <jjesse> interseting in my kde4 build on my laptop i can't switch users or logout, any one else having problems?
[02:55] <Riddell> Hobbsee: juct click on it in Kubuntu
[02:55] <Hobbsee> that's what i thought
[02:55] <Riddell> jjesse: that depends on what kdm you're using
[02:55] <Riddell> well, logout shouldn't
[02:57] <jjesse> Riddell: kdm with gutsy?
[02:57] <dasKreech> Riddell: update it yourself :)
[02:57] <Jucato> !no deb is the Debian package format, also used by Ubuntu. To install .deb files, simply double-click (in Ubuntu) or click (in Kubuntu) on them to start the GDebi utility.
[02:57] <ubotu> I'll remember that Jucato
[02:57] <dasKreech> There we go :)
[02:57] <Jucato> !deb
[02:57] <ubotu> deb is the Debian package format, also used by Ubuntu. To install .deb files, simply double-click (in Ubuntu) or click (in Kubuntu) on them to start the GDebi utility.
[02:58] <dasKreech> !snack | Jucato
[02:58] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about snack - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:58] <dasKreech> !helpersnack | Jucato
[02:58] <ubotu> Jucato: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
[02:58] <Jucato> :/
[02:59] <jjesse> Riddell: sorry for being stupid, but my problem w/ logging out and switching user is because of the version of kdm i'm using?
[03:00]  * Jucato chuckles at how some people in #kubuntu answer "how to install <package|s>"....
[03:00] <dasKreech> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=898&num=1
[03:00] <Jucato> Answer: "sudo apt-get install synaptic"
[03:00] <dasKreech> Yep
[03:00] <dasKreech> at least 40% of the time
[03:00] <dasKreech> another 35% is NEVER USE ADEPT apt-get/aptitude
[03:00]  * dasKreech likes Adept
[03:01]  * dasKreech grumbles
[03:01] <dasKreech> Sweet new Cd is out
[03:03]  * Jucato tries to count the number of comments, just about the name "Okteta"
[03:09] <nixternal> don't you just love when compiz crashes your machine, even when you tell it not to load?
[03:09] <nixternal> if we want Compiz in Hardy, we have a lot of work to do unfortunately
[03:09] <Jucato> lovely :)
[03:09] <Jucato> :)
[03:09] <nixternal> I am sitting in tty1 right now
[03:09]  * dasKreech still wonders why we want compiz
[03:10]  * nixternal too
[03:10] <nixternal> but then again, the users are the ones who want it
[03:10] <nixternal> they are the most important!
[03:10] <Jucato> because it's a spec to catch up to gutsy features?
[03:10] <jjesse> the spec we talked about today?
[03:10] <dasKreech> they have a package
[03:10] <Jucato> hardy catchup
[03:10] <dasKreech>  let em install it
[03:11] <dasKreech> so we are stripping compiz?
[03:11] <Jucato> I can think of a compromise. we can make it easy for them to install compiz.. but we have to tell them that Compiz-KDE integration sucks... so we can't really support it much.. then forward them to #compiz-fusion :P
[03:11]  * Jucato is eeevil
[03:13] <dasKreech> I concur
[03:27] <jjesse> so any idea on how to resolve my prolblem w/ kdm and login?
[03:27] <jjesse> also is kdm the reason the panel still shows along w/ the kde4 panel?
[03:46] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: because compiz is kinda cool
[03:46] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: and doesnt appear to drain resources
[03:46] <dasKreech> And we are dumping it the release after that?
[03:47] <Hobbsee> why would we?
[03:47] <Hobbsee> compiz-kde is easy to install
[03:48] <dasKreech> cause Kwin ships with compositing in KDE4?
[03:49] <Hobbsee> dunno
[03:49] <Hobbsee> people might want compiz, for some strange reason
[03:51] <dasKreech> sure
[03:51] <dasKreech> I have no issues with that :)
[03:51] <dasKreech>  make it easy to install
[03:52] <Hobbsee> and, the cube is cool
[03:52] <Hobbsee> and the zoom can be quite useful - there's actually no real way to easily zoom in in kde, at all
[03:53] <Hobbsee> which is unhelpful, when you zoom an image, and it becomse massively pixelated
[03:57] <yuriy> dasKreech: that's the idea, make it easy to install and have it actually work, not have it by default
[03:58] <yuriy> Hobbsee: are you at UDS?
[03:58] <dasKreech> ah
[03:58] <Hobbsee> yuriy: nope
[03:58] <dasKreech> anyone following the Gobby at UDS ?
[03:58] <yuriy> dasKreech: or at least that's what i got out of today's meeting
[03:58] <dasKreech> Does that mean we maintain compiz-kde ?
[03:59] <yuriy> not sure, and not sure who's "we"
[04:03] <dasKreech> Kubuntu
[04:05] <yuriy> not sure.  the results of the BoF seemed a bit wishywashy to me, and the spec isn't written up yet (jr wrote down notes). overall not quite what i expected UDS to be like
[04:10] <Hobbsee> yuriy: the sessions differ a lot
[04:11] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: no.  technically, MOTU does.  i think the compiz people end up maintaining it.
[04:11] <Hobbsee> yuriy: specs tend to only get written up at the end
[04:11] <yuriy> Hobbsee: oh. i thought the whole point of the meetings was to flesh out the spec
[04:11] <yuriy> *had thought
[04:14] <Hobbsee> yuriy: sure, but the spec is a summary of what's been decided, pretty much
[04:20] <freeflying> Hobbsee: #135084 seem been fixed, need upgrade the translation from LP, will we have a SRU
[04:20] <Hobbsee> launchpad bug #135084
[04:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135084 in kdebase "Kicker adds _: Entries in K-menu: to certain programs" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135084
[04:20] <Hobbsee> nice!
[04:21] <freeflying> Hobbsee: we shall poke the correspond lang team to check their translation
[04:21] <Hobbsee> great :)
[04:42]  * Jucato sighs
[04:43] <dasKreech> Sup Jucato ?
[04:43] <Jucato> nothing much. just like sighing a lot :)
[04:43] <Hobbsee> he's contemplating publishing his blog post
[04:43] <Jucato> or actually finishing it :)
[04:44]  * Jucato is editing the first half... too long :D
[04:45] <Jucato> has anyone ever been chased out of Kubuntu before? :)
[04:45] <Hobbsee> no
[04:45] <Jucato> with pitchforks and torches?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> i dont think so
[04:45] <Jucato> heheh :)
[04:47]  * dasKreech is working on it they just won't take the hint!!!
[04:48] <Jucato> better work faster. I might overtake you
[04:54]  * dasKreech blocks Jucato's way with torches
[04:54]  * Jucato skreeches..
[04:55] <Jucato> rawr... Google API for social networking? google's becoming scary :)
[04:57] <dasKreech> sorry what now?
[04:57] <dasKreech> who did they buy?
[04:57] <Jucato> no one
[04:58] <Jucato> their own API. although Google does own Orkut
[04:59] <dasKreech> Oh yeah
[04:59] <dasKreech> Isn't that more portugese networking ?
[04:59] <dasKreech> Oh lord
[04:59] <dasKreech> They dropped ODF
[05:00] <Jucato> who did?
[05:00] <dasKreech> the ODF
[05:00] <Jucato> ODF dropped ODF?
[05:01] <dasKreech> Yeah
[05:01] <dasKreech> They want to use CDF now
[05:01] <Jucato> O.o
[05:01] <Jucato> link please?
[05:02] <dasKreech> http://fussnotes.typepad.com/plexnex/2007/10/cdf-disrupting-.html
[05:04] <Jucato> hm... the OpenDocument Foundations isn't the "holder" of ODF though afaik
[05:06] <dasKreech> Yeah but it still sucks
[05:06] <Jucato> only if the OD Foundation has a majority hold over ODF development... we still haven't heard from the other major players...
[05:08] <dasKreech> It sucks :)
[05:11] <Jucato> :P
[05:16] <dasKreech> having multiple "standards" all based on the idea of interoperabilty sucks
[05:17] <Jucato> well as far as we're concerned, ODF is the only ISO standard...
[05:23] <dasKreech> Stupid w3c
[05:49] <dasKreech> Night
[07:04] <Jucato> Hobbsee: almost finished :/
[07:04] <Hobbsee> :)
[07:04] <lovre> hi all
[07:04] <Jucato> hi
[07:06] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I just jinxed myself because of that.. lost my train of thought
[08:07] <Jucato> Hobbsee: done :)
[08:08] <_StefanS_> morning
[08:08] <Jucato> now to decide whether I should actually post it or not :)
[08:08] <Jucato> hi _StefanS_!
[08:08] <_StefanS_> so how are you all doing ? :)
[08:08] <Jucato> semi-fine? :)
[08:08] <_StefanS_> silence before hardy..
[08:08] <_StefanS_> or storm :D
[08:08]  * Jucato is brewing up a storm :)
[08:13] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yay!
[08:13] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i say so.
[08:13] <Jucato> hahah
[08:14] <Jucato> I have taken blonting to a new level...
[08:15] <Jucato> oh well, here goes nothing and everything...
[08:17] <freeflying> raphink: hi
[08:18] <raphink> hi freeflying
[08:19] <Jucato> hm... why doesn't the fridge's UDS report have the Kubuntu BoF?
[08:19] <Jucato> it was on Day 2 right?
[08:26]  * Jucato goes for a nap while waiting for the fallout :)
[08:42] <freeflying> raphink: so long haven't seen you, how are you :)
[08:56] <_buz> is there a hardy wishlist somewhere?
[09:01] <raphink> I'm fine thanks freeflying
[09:01] <raphink> how about you?
[09:02] <freeflying> me too :)
[09:02] <raphink> ok :)
[09:03] <raphink> just quite a lot of work ;)
[09:12] <Hobbsee> Jucato: this, of course, relies on the canonical spec people accepting various specs
[09:13] <Hobbsee> Jucato: and not being focussed on getting kubuntu up to ubuntu
[09:50] <mhb> good morning
[09:51] <mhb> Jucato: I find your blog post a bit too abstract
[09:51] <mhb> Jucato: I can see what you mean by "becoming a KDE maintainers team", but not really what you mean by "separation"
[09:53] <mhb> which concepts, values or technical decisions of the Ubuntu distribution should we separate from?
[09:54] <mhb> surely not the stable release cycle, seeing as other projects (koffice) now benefits from our cycle
[09:54] <mhb> and I personally like the idea of having as few wizards and pop-ups as possible, I like things to work automagically without wizards
[10:04] <Jucato> mhb: sorry just woke up from a nap. I'll get back to you later...
[10:04]  * Jucato reboots brain
[10:04] <Jucato> (usually takes a while...)
[10:14] <mhb> Jucato: and by the way, I have chosen Kubuntu as my distro of choice exactly because of the specialization on KDE. If we became a team like Fedora or Debian has, I would consider "moving on" to some other KDE-centric distro.
[10:14] <Jucato> mhb: I only put option 2 as a sort of.. um... slap in the face option?
[10:14] <Jucato> hm.. what was I typing again?
[10:15] <Jucato> I intentionally made the post a wee bit too abstract. so that people won't focus too much on technical details and probably miss the message. besides, the "separation" I was thinking about is also a bit more abstract than technical. we would still be using LP, we would still probably follow the release schedule (although we probably could be a bit loose on that one)
[10:16] <Nightrose> Jucato: nice post
[10:17] <Jucato> For example, on gutsy, we could have probably waited a bit longer, just to be able to immediately (and "officially") fix the kopete and kdesudo bugs
[10:17] <Jucato> Nightrose: thanks :)
[10:17] <Nightrose> ;-)
[10:17] <Jucato> mhb: but I'm quite ok with the 6-month schedule... in fact sometimes I wish KDE released that predictably :)
[10:18] <mhb> hmm, you touched something I would like too, being less dependent on Ubuntu bureaucracy
[10:18]  * Jucato wonders where the idea about separating release schedules came up though... reading the comments
[10:19] <mhb> well it's the first thing I thought when I read the word "separation"
[10:19] <Jucato> mhb: I guess I'm also trying to say is that we somehow stop hoping that Canonical would one day support us more. If sabdfl's answers were any indication, I think that's a done deal already
[10:20] <Jucato> hehe tbh, the schedule never came to my mind throughout the whole time I was thinking about this :)
[10:20] <Hobbsee> we probably dont want to split the release cycle
[10:21] <mhb> no
[10:21] <mhb> we don't want to
[10:21] <Jucato> most probably not. but probably we could be a bit lenient... but that depends on the situation I guess
[10:21] <mhb> Jucato: actually, I think bugs like those two are blocked by two things
[10:22] <mhb> a) we don't have the rights to change something a some point
[10:22] <mhb> b) we don't have the professionals that would actually concentrate on fixing bugs
[10:22] <mhb> because fixing bugs isn't much fun
[10:22] <Jucato> but if you look at comment #1, that view about Kubuntu is somehow a bit prevalent with some users... even if you observe the way some users speak... even if you do !kubuntu right now
[10:23] <Jucato> yeah... but for example, with the Kopete bug, Riddel already had the fix just within a day or so... but we weren't able to upload it... users had to resort to manually installing the .deb
[10:23] <mhb> fixing bugs need dedicated Q&A, and we'd need paid devs or really crazy (and skilled) enthusiasts
[10:23] <Jucato> and 64-bit users were left out.
[10:25] <Jucato> probably even the kmilo bug? :)
[10:25] <Jucato> btw mhb, just to warn you (sort of), I saw someone giving an unofficial fix to that kmilo bug... which basically involved downloading feisty's kmilo,extracting it, and manually copying/overwriting the files
[10:25] <Jucato> just to fix the 0% - 11% bug...
[10:26] <mhb> Jucato: why warn me?
[10:26] <Jucato> er.. inform you I mean...
[10:26] <Jucato> there's a fix already right?
[10:26] <Jucato> I mean a patch?
[10:26] <mhb> I'm not really sure
[10:26] <Jucato> oh I thought the bug was assigned to you. my bad.
[10:27] <Hobbsee> what kmilo bug?
[10:27]  * Jucato searches for the bug #
[10:28] <Jucato> "imho, it is more important to implement new hardy features for Kubuntu than implement all missing features (catchup) from previous releases." -- from Lure... I agree with that... although I couldn't understand what he meant in the 2nd sentence :)
[10:29] <Jucato> (From https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup btw)
[10:29] <mhb> I think the second one was the exact opposite of the 1st
[10:29] <mhb> which puzzled me
[10:29] <Jucato> Hobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeutils/+bug/127082
[10:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127082 in kdeutils "Kmilo doesn't properly adjust volume" [Undecided,New]
[10:30] <Jucato> dunno if this is a duplicate bug, but seems related based on the comments: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdeutils/+bug/118723
[10:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118723 in kdeutils "KMilo/Volume Hotkeys regression" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[10:32] <Jucato> Hobbsee: do you remember if the default Ubuntu install has pre-defined folderse in $HOME?
[10:32] <mhb> Jucato: actually, there is a couple of distributions that branch off from Debian and Ubuntu and use KDE - but because of the fact that nobody is at sync with KDE, why don't we join forces and do all the maintaining within Debian Unstable (or whichever we branch from) ?
[10:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it does
[10:32] <Hobbsee> mhb: apparently there are still a few kubuntu-specific patches - but we do, at least somewhat
[10:32] <Jucato> ah
[10:33] <Hobbsee> would be really nice to have the rosetta export patches in debian, where they do nothing, then sync.
[10:33] <mhb> Hobbsee: I haven't understood the last sentence
[10:34] <mhb> rosetta? Isn't that the translation tool? Who is "they"?
[10:34] <Jucato> dddddddddddddddd
[10:34] <Jucato> ooops. sorry...
[10:34] <Hobbsee> mhb: we cant sync a lot of debian's stuff into our main, as we do extraction to rosetta in ubuntu
[10:35] <Hobbsee> so that patch means we cant sync
[10:35] <Jucato> ah rosetta :)
[10:37] <mhb> that sounds like a job for a fairly smart import tool
[10:38] <mhb> Hobbsee: isn't there a pattern which could be used to do such task automagically?
[10:38] <Hobbsee> mhb: no idea, tbh
[10:38] <Hobbsee> i dont follow translations :)
[10:38] <Hobbsee> although i did have my ubuntu in german for a bit
[10:39] <Jucato> translations was one of the topics raised in FOSSCamp right? maybe there are good news?
[10:39]  * Jucato is sure mhb loved the FOSSCamp "decision" about package management :D
[10:42] <Hobbsee> Jucato: you might want to comment on there that you cnat do anything about canonical supporting kubuntu more - that it's the wrong place to petition mark to do so
[10:42] <Hobbsee> Jucato: also, you might want to correct the perception that Riddell is actually a gtk/gnome dev
[10:42] <Jucato> Hobbsee: doing that already
[10:45] <Jucato> Anything else? :)
[10:45] <Jucato> (that you want me to reply to?)
[10:46] <mhb> Jucato: decision? All I heard is that they looked at packagekit and liked it
[10:47] <Jucato> and considering it
[10:48] <Hobbsee> Jucato: that changing the release cycle isnt really feasible.
[10:48] <Jucato> already done :)
[10:48] <Hobbsee> cool
[10:48] <Hobbsee> hm.
[10:48] <Jucato> just waiting to hit Reply
[10:48] <Hobbsee> how many people there are working actively on kubuntu, in development roles
[10:48] <Hobbsee> 1 full time, and maybe...6 in their spare time? 8?  i'm not sure
[10:49] <Jucato> about that much.. +1 now that jpatrick's back perhaps
[10:49] <Hobbsee> yeah, but the point is for when they bash gutsy, to realise just how many people were in it
[10:49] <Jucato> hopefully new blood will be coming in. remember those guys who sprouted after openweek?
[10:50] <Jucato> they don't know that. I've encountered users who thought we have a number of paid devs because we're officially supported by Canonical
[10:50] <Jucato> (of course I had to explain it to them and they were very understanding after that)
[11:01] <Hobbsee> hopefully
[11:01] <Hobbsee> but we do need to actively recruit them
[11:01] <Hobbsee> yes, hence they need education :)
[11:05] <mhb> new blood is hard to find these days
[11:07] <Jucato_> we need vampires to suck new blood :)
[11:08] <mhb> that is my idea of having a central place for KDE Debian-Derivatives package maintaining
[11:08] <mhb> we could suck the juice of Debian, Kubuntu, Freespire and many other maintainers
[11:09] <Lure> Jucato: ?
[11:09]  * Lure reads lot's of trace back
[11:10] <Jucato_> Lure: your comment in the Catchup spec
[11:24] <Lure> Jucato_: I just wanted to point out that just being in catchup mode is not right approach - we should focus rather on hardy as-is, therefore checking what Ubuntu is doing, and deciding what it makes sense to implement and what not
[11:25] <Lure> Jucato_: rather than spending all the effort implementing features from gutsy (like compiz by default...)
[11:25] <Jucato_> I see
[11:26]  * Lure now goes to planet to see "the post" from Jucato ;-)
[11:26] <Jucato_> uh oh :)
[11:30] <Jucato_> hm... are we prepared to maintain D3lphin ourselves btw? or does anyone have any news upstream?
[11:37] <manchicken> Is it just me or does kwin's window focus suck lately?
[11:39] <imbrandon> moins all
[11:39] <Jucato_> moin
[11:39] <Jucato_> nooo!! suddenly I'm craving for mt.dew again! ncurses!
[11:43] <manchicken> xbrb
[11:43] <Jucato_> new X app? :)
[11:57] <manchicken> So does anybody maintain Karm currently?
[11:57] <manchicken> I really hope it's going to be in KDE4, too.
[11:59] <Lure> Jucato_: commented on blog
[12:06] <mhb> Lure: by the way, I'm not sure if you're up with the most recent developments on the web site thing, we will soon be replacing the current site with a Drupal install, which will allow a) much easier collaboration (edit rights for more than just jr) b) a nicer theme.
[12:06] <mhb> Lure: we're blocked on Canonical sysadmins now
[12:06] <Lure> mhb: ;-) on new web site, :-( on being blocked on canonical again...
[12:07] <Lure> mhb: are you driving this effort?
[12:08] <mhb> Lure: in a way, ryanakca did a lot of improvements on the theme, though.
[12:08] <mhb> Lure: the C. sysadmins were busy with the Ubuntu release and they now take care of the UDS
[12:08] <Lure> mhb: great to see this moving!
[12:09] <Lure> mhb: yeah, I know they are very busy right now
[12:09] <Lure> mhb: if we had such web page for so long, some additional weeks will not make it much worse ;-)
[12:09] <mhb> Lure: once UDS ends I hope they'll set the Drupal for us
[12:09] <mhb> yeah .o)
[12:10] <Lure> mhb: they have all-hands after uds, so you should probably count another week
[12:30] <Jucato> Lure: thanks for the comment
[12:30] <Jucato> mhb: I'm excited to see what the new website will look like :)
[12:32] <mhb> Jucato: me too :o)
[12:32] <Jucato> yay clown :)
[12:34] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee_ (with a tail)
[12:35] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:35]  * Hobbsee upgrades to hardy
[12:35]  * Jucato wonders...
[12:35] <Jucato> perhaps I should upgrade vbox as well...
[12:36] <Hobbsee> dunno if it's even functional yet
[12:36] <Hobbsee> and i dont know how to debug gnome stuff
[12:36] <Hobbsee> so it might be a bit interesting :)
[12:37] <Jucato> haha ok..
[12:37] <Hobbsee> 524kbps down.  nice.
[12:38]  * Jucato wonders why there's some considerable amount of delay when starting software-properties-kde from Adept
[12:38] <Hobbsee> dunno.  dindt use it :)
[12:38] <Jucato> :P
[12:41] <Hobbsee> i'm sad to say it, but after this week, there's really no reason i need to use kubuntu
[12:41] <Hobbsee> !ping
[12:41] <ubotu> pong
[12:41]  * Jucato sobs
[12:42] <nosrednaekim> none of us NEED to use it, we just like to :D
[12:42] <Jucato> nah. I need KDE at least... otherwise I'll implode
[12:43] <nixternal> mornin'
[12:43]  * Jucato waves to nixternal
[12:43] <Jucato> top of the morning to yah
[12:44] <nixternal> ahh, luck o the irish i see
[12:44] <Jucato> :D
[12:44] <Hobbsee> appears to work.  havent rebooted yet
[12:45] <Jucato> upgrading vbox... easy enough to revert :D
[12:45] <nixternal> Hobbsee: it works, at least for Kubuntu it did
[12:46] <Hobbsee> it's saying i dont even need to reboot
[12:46] <Hobbsee> i probably should, though
[12:46] <Jucato_> it only says that if there's a new kernel right? doesn't seem to be a new one here yet...
[12:48] <Hobbsee> correct
[12:48] <Hobbsee> i wish there was :0
[12:48] <_buz> the main reason i'd like to see a new kernel isnt fixed in upstream 2.6.23 either
[12:49] <_buz> i'm still only getting one core after resume from suspend
[12:49] <Jucato> some offtopic spam for your reading pleasuer :) http://www.kittyhell.com/2007/07/19/hello-kitty-armoured-personnel-carrier/
[12:50]  * Hobbsee wants .24
[12:50] <Hobbsee> drivers in kernel == so good!
[12:50] <Hobbsee> no more caring about l-r-m being late, and no wifi.
[12:51] <_buz> will .24 feature ipw drivers?
[12:51] <Jucato> they're already built-in? thought that was what ubuntu-restricted-modules was for?
[12:51] <_buz> compiling ipw drivers by hand is  a major PITA
[12:52] <nixternal> woohoo...I have school tonight!!!!
[12:52] <Hobbsee> _buz: iwl drivers, i expect
[12:52] <Jucato> and that's good? O.o
[12:52] <_buz> Hobbsee: well i dont care what drivers, as long as they work with my ipw3945 :)
[12:52] <nixternal> ya, that means I don't have to hand out candy to them little trick-or-treaters!
[12:53] <nixternal> but that also means I need to setup my cam and broadcast over the internet, so when they go to egg my house, i know who did it
[12:53] <Hobbsee> Jucato: they're already in l-u-m, which drags behind a bit on dev releases.  when they'[re in the kernel itself, it'll all be at once.
[12:53] <Jucato> ah l-u-m... ok...
[13:30] <Riddell> why do people think that sending me an e-mail in spanish will get them CDs?
[13:32] <Hobbsee> heh
[13:32] <jjesse_> because you are in charge of everything and know evyerthing
[13:33] <Riddell> jjesse_: I think we should keep a distance from kwwii today
[13:33] <jjesse_> Riddell: Yeah? he having a bad day?
[13:33] <Hobbsee> why?
[13:34] <nixternal> [   Riddell] jjesse_: I think we should keep a distance from kwwii today
[13:34] <nixternal> just today? should you try and keep a distance from him every day? :p
[13:35] <nixternal> s/should/shouldn't
[13:35] <jjesse_> nixternal: kwwii is especially cursing his laptop today
[13:35] <nixternal> I was cursing mine last night with the compiz mess
[13:35] <nixternal> I sat here and watched compiz slowly eat away at my memory
[13:35] <Hobbsee> compiz-kde?
[13:35] <nixternal> to the point that a c/p would crash it
[13:35] <nixternal> Hobbsee: yes
[13:35] <jjesse_> apparently networkmanager is not seeing his network card
[13:35] <Hobbsee> yeah.  it really does suck
[13:36] <nixternal> I guess I have been lucky with everything else....Kubuntu has worked 100% with this laptop, even during the dev cycles...only until I messed with compiz-kde on it
[13:37] <mendred> nixternal :wots ur graphic card?
[13:37] <nixternal> Intel
[13:37] <nixternal> it has worked flawlessly in the past
[13:37] <nixternal> but last night for some reason, don't know if it was a plugin I enabled or what, it just started eating memory
[13:37] <mendred> nixternal: strange cause by all reports..compiz works best on the intel ones...
[13:37] <nixternal> mendred: and I will second that
[13:38] <_buz> mendred: that's true. but that's only saying it's even WORSE on others
[13:38] <Jucato> nixternal: you probably enabled the jucato-plugin
[13:38] <nixternal> it wasn't a graphics hardware issue, it is a KDE and Compiz issue
[13:38] <nixternal> Jucato: your post sure brought out the best in some, that's for sure
[13:38] <nixternal> there was a comment I really liked that I never thought of before
[13:38] <mendred> _buz: running on my laptop with radeon igp 340 with KDE runs pretty smoothly
[13:38] <nixternal> let me find it really quick before I head off to school
[13:38] <Jucato> jjesse_: internet problems? :(
[13:38] <_buz> i have weird issues on my intel card
[13:38] <mendred> _buz: but yeah heavy tweaks on the xorg.conf
[13:39] <Jucato> nixternal: heheh I was hoping it would start a discussion... and was prepared to also bring in the worst :)
[13:39] <jjesse> Jucato: evening btw
[13:39] <Riddell> he's also spreading deadly diseases today
[13:39] <jjesse> sur i guess
[13:39] <nixternal> What I find amazing is how *good* Kubuntu still manages to be despite next to no support from Canonical. If that’s not a testament to the power of the KDE infrastructure, I don’t know what is…
[13:39] <Jucato> jjesse: good morning! :)
[13:39] <_buz> nixternal: i agree
[13:39] <nixternal> Jucato: ^^ that is the comment
[13:39] <Jucato> nixternal: yeah that one's a great comment :)
[13:39] <mendred> nixternal: yup..kubuntu is fast
[13:39] <_buz> (even though i dont agree on some design decisions, like d3lphin)
[13:40] <mendred> and this is an ancient laptop by any stds
[13:40] <nixternal> I really never thought of it like that, and that is a great complement
[13:40] <Jucato> nixternal: but "*buntus suck. Try a real distro like OpenSUSE or Fedora." is better don'tyou think? Hehehe
[13:40] <nixternal> Fedora and KDE is like...I don't even know how to explain it...but openSUSE is good
[13:41] <Jucato> hehe now get to class :P
[13:41] <Jucato> so that I could disturb you there :D
[13:41] <nixternal> for me, there is nothing that tops Kubuntu...it works for me 100%, I can do my work w/o any problems, and I know to hack it if need be
[13:41] <nixternal> plus, can you name another distribution where the lead developer wears a kilt with no undies? :p
[13:42] <mendred> anyways regarding the kde4 packages for kubuntu.is there a repo where i can get amarok2 and koffice2 packages?
[13:42] <Jucato> hm.. I just remembered, who's responsible for implementing this separate Context Toolbar? http://jucato.org/stuff/context.png
[13:42] <_buz> real distro's dont use RPM
[13:42] <jjesse> you are :)
[13:42] <Jucato> nixternal: omg!!! how did you know he didn't have undies?!?!
[13:42] <_buz> so opensuse is out of question
[13:42] <nixternal> Jucato: news flies!
[13:42] <Jucato> whoever's responsible for that Context Toolbar, I'd like to thank him :)
[13:43] <Jucato> (and hope upstream KDE will get that separation soon)
[13:43]  * nixternal doesn't use no stinkin' toolbars....keyboard shortcuts FTW!
[13:43] <Jucato> :)
[13:44] <_buz> i dont have that context toolbar thingy in gutsy?
[13:44]  * nixternal goes to school...cya in a bit
[13:44] <_buz> for me, kubuntu 5.04 beta was the first distro i could ever work with and i stuck around ;)
[13:45] <_buz> (tho first time i tried linux was in 2000 or so, on suse)
[13:45] <_buz> no, that's wrong, 1998
[13:45] <Jucato> _buz: that's on a fresh install of gutsy (vbox)
[13:46] <_buz> abd being able to use kubuntu to work is saying a lot coming from someone who has been using freebsd for 6 years on servers ;)
[13:47] <_buz> Jucato: could be related to the fact that i got rid of that stupid distinction between web and filemanager
[13:47] <Jucato> that only appears if you're viewing a kpart (embedded viewer)
[13:47] <_buz> ah ok
[13:48] <_buz> yeah
[13:48] <_buz> i never noticed that i used that ;)
[13:48] <Jucato> it's something definitely new
[13:48] <Jucato> for me at least
[13:49] <_buz> i'm pretty sure we had that in feisty, as well
[13:49] <Jucato> pretty sure it wasn't
[13:50]  * Jucato has been thinking/wishing for something like that back then
[13:50] <_buz> could be wrong though, i switched go gutsy quite early
[13:50] <mendred> *sigh* i guess  the answer is no
[13:51] <Jucato> mendred: yeah. most probably you'll have to compile for yourself
[13:51] <Jucato> at this point at least
[13:51] <_buz> nixternal mentioned something about working on packages last night
[13:51] <Hobbsee> an old versoin of amarok is in the repos
[13:51] <_buz> maybe not amarok though
[13:52] <Hobbsee> amarok's not hard to compile from svn
[13:53] <mendred> Hobbsee: yeah i know..but this laptop takes forever to compile anything..so would like to avoid it as much as possible..
[13:53] <_buz> but speaking of it, opensuse already has kde4beta4 packages :P
[13:53] <Hobbsee> and they have how many developers?
[13:53] <Hobbsee> feel free to help, anyway :)
[13:53] <manchicken> neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed coffee....
[13:53] <_buz> Hobbsee: i tried compiling it last week
[13:53] <mendred> but yes if unavoidable will do it myself..
[13:53] <_buz> didnt manage to, so not much help ;)
[13:54] <manchicken> Sooooooooooo tired.
[13:55] <Jucato> !devsnack | manchicken
[13:55] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about devsnack - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:55] <Jucato> bah
[13:55] <Nightrose> for those who want to build amarok2: http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/2.0_Development_HowTo - but it is under heavy development still
[13:55] <Jucato> !developersnack
[13:55] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about developersnack - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:55] <Jucato> sheesh!
[13:55] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Howdy :)
[13:55] <mendred> Nightrose: thanks
[13:55] <Nightrose> yw
[13:55]  * Jucato didn't have problems with building amarok from svn 3 weeks ago :)
[13:55] <Hobbsee> hiya manchicken!
[13:55] <Jucato> just the plain cmakekde...
[13:56] <Jucato> manchicken needs some hugging and cookies :)
[13:56] <manchicken> And coffee........
[13:56] <jpatrick> Jucato: well, ok, if you don't want me around
[13:56] <Jucato> jpatrick: huh? what?
[13:56]  * Jucato scratches his head
[13:57] <jpatrick> [14:55:18] * you have joined this channel, [14:55:24] <Jucato> sheesh!
[13:57] <Jucato> lol!
[13:57] <jpatrick> ;) joke
[13:57] <Jucato> [21:55] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about developersnack - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:57] <Jucato> [21:55] <Jucato> sheesh!
[13:57] <jpatrick> ^^
[13:58] <Jucato> @_@
[14:02] <jpatrick> Jucato: nice blog post
[14:02] <Jucato> thanks
[14:03] <emonkey-p> I've tried to compile kde4pimlibs and got this error:
[14:03] <emonkey-p> kde4@pegasus:~/kde/src/KDE/kdepimlibs$ cmakekde
[14:03] <emonkey-p> CMake Error: ERROR: Could not find KDE4 kde4-config
[14:03] <emonkey-p> -- Configuring done
[14:03] <emonkey-p> any idea?
[14:04] <emonkey-p> I've did everything like it's written here: http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Build/KDE4#kdelibs
[14:04] <jpatrick> patrick@kamino:~$ dpkg -S kde4-config
[14:04] <jpatrick> kdelibs5: /usr/lib/kde4/bin/kde4-config
[14:05] <Jucato> hm.. confusing Kubuntu packages w/ SVN source? :)
[14:05] <jpatrick> it's that or you have to add /usr/lib/kde4/bin to your PATH
[14:05] <Jucato> won't work... if he's following the SVN guide and compiling from scratch
[14:05] <emonkey-p> there is a file, so I've toadd it to the PATH
[14:06] <emonkey-p> I've done this special .bashrc things (cs etc.)
[14:06] <jpatrick> yes, I've seen that file
[14:06] <emonkey-p> so I thought the PATH should be ok, but maybe I'm worng
[14:07] <emonkey-p> should I ask in a normal kde channel if I do it from scratch?
[14:07] <Jucato> wait... did you install kdelibs already?
[14:07] <Jucato> should be kdesupport -> kdelibs -> kdepimlibs -> kdebase
[14:07] <emonkey-p> Jucato: you mean the libs from the beta 4 from the repo? yes I have
[14:07] <emonkey-p> s/4/3
[14:08] <Jucato> hm... I don't quite understand what you're trying to do? you're compiling kdepimlibs from svn but used kde4libs from Kubuntu?
[14:08] <emonkey-p> no I already compiled kdelibs from svn
[14:08] <emonkey-p> but the beta3 are installed before, maybe that's a problem?
[14:08] <emonkey-p> the beta 3 is from the gutsy repo
[14:09] <Jucato> hm... maybe... but the .bashrc variables should have taken care of that...
[14:09] <Jucato> if you copied the .bashrc from techbase exactly as it is
[14:09] <emonkey-p> I've added the new .bashrc at the end of the old bashrc, should I replace it?
[14:10] <Jucato> no. just add
[14:11] <emonkey-p> maybe there was a problem compiling the kdelibs, is there a possibility to check if it's ok? I've seen only warnings on output but I haven't checked a logfile or something like that
[14:12] <bddebian> Heya
[14:13] <emonkey-p> The problem is I've to make a speech at the *buntu Release Party in our country about kde4. And I think I should have something more to show than only the beta 3.
[14:14] <emonkey-p> The party is on the 10th so there is a bit more time to do it.
[14:14] <tobias_> emonkey: I can't even get to the KDE code from here:-( SVN is blocked.
[14:14] <jjesse> i built all from svn last night w/ no problems
[14:15] <tobias_> jjesse: I actually build kde4 a couple of times, but for some reason it never starts up properly.
[14:16] <tobias_> The kde4 debs from Riddel work fine.
[14:17] <emonkey-p> the config is here but it looks like the PATH is not set properly : http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/16607
[14:17] <jpatrick> emonkey-p: add /usr/lib/kde4/bin
[14:19] <emonkey-p> ok
[14:20] <Jucato> jpatrick:  I'm afraid that will conflict...
[14:21] <Jucato> he's compiling KDE 4 from SVN, following the techbase guide, which installs everything to /home/kde-devel/kde and uses that PATH for $KDEDIR. /usr/lib/kde4/bin/ is the location from Kubuntu packages... if his compilation has trouble finding the correct kde4-config, then there's something wrong from the start
[14:21] <Jucato> at least afaik
[14:22] <emonkey-p> I see... maybe I'll try everything again from beginning
[14:22] <Jucato> emonkey-p: without /usr/lib/kde4/bin/ from your path, type "which kde4-config"
[14:23] <jjesse> i followed the techbas3e article and the only problem i had was w/ lnusertmp
[14:23] <Jucato> jjesse: ditto (last month)
[14:23] <emonkey-p> Jucato: no output
[14:23] <emonkey-p> ou mistyped mom
[14:24]  * Jucato sees kde4-config in his old /home/kde-devel/kde/bin/
[14:24] <emonkey-p> hm again no output
[14:24] <Jucato> no output? it should at least say "which: no kde4-config in...."
[14:24] <emonkey-p> just say nothing ツ
[14:24] <Jucato> echo $PATH
[14:25] <emonkey-p> $ echo $PATH
[14:25] <emonkey-p> /home/kde4/kde/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games
[14:25] <Jucato> what's your kde4 user's name? kde4?
[14:26] <emonkey-p> Jucato: yes
[14:27] <Jucato> weird... "ls -l /home/kde4/kde/bin/kde4-config"
[14:29] <emonkey-p> $ ls /home/kde4/kde/
[14:29] <emonkey-p> build  src
[14:29] <Jucato> O.o
[14:29] <emonkey-p> there are only 2 directories, build and src, no bin
[14:29] <Jucato> well obviously kdelibs didn't compile and install :)
[14:30] <Jucato> neither did kdesupport
[14:30] <Jucato> did you compile and install kdesupport already?
[14:30] <emonkey-p> you mean the packages which are listed at the beginning of the HowTo?
[14:31] <emonkey-p> or just the cmakekde of kdelibs?
[14:31] <Jucato> no
[14:31] <Jucato> http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Build/KDE4#kdesupport
[14:31] <Jucato> no wonder kdelibs isn't there :)
[14:32] <Hobbsee> Riddell: when you did the new packages, did you check for non-published fixes in bzr?
[14:32] <emonkey-p> Jucato: but there is this sentence: There is no need to compile qt or kdesupport on kubuntu gutsy. All required packages are provided in these packages. Skip down to the kdelibs section and continue from there.
[14:33] <Jucato> hm... then something must have gone wrong with your kdelibs compile
[14:33] <emonkey-p> can I check that with grepping an log?
[14:34] <emonkey-p> s/an/a
[14:34]  * Hobbsee unassigns from a whole bunch of bugs.
[14:34] <Jucato> dunno if there's a log for it
[14:34] <emonkey-p> k, I'll try it with compiling the kdesupport first. :9
[14:35] <Jucato> well you can try recompiling kdelibs first :)
[14:36] <Jucato> and pay attention when it stops. you'll see if it finished or not
[14:37] <emonkey-p> ok, just do again the cmakekde in the kdelibs directory?
[14:37] <Jucato> in the src directory
[14:37] <jpatrick> ryanakca: ping
[14:38] <emonkey-p> Jucato: ok, thx for support I'll try it
[14:40] <emonkey-p> I'll split the output to a log file too
[14:44] <dasKreech> Jucato: wow
[14:44] <emonkey-p> Jucato: looks like you're right. after I did the cmakekde again it installed a bunch of things and the cmakekde of pimlibs is now running. thank you very much.
[14:50]  * tobias_ went through his bugreports on LP.
[14:50] <manchicken> So, how french is a french press?
[14:51] <tobias_> It is really depressing to see bugs still around that were reported over a year ago:-(
[14:51] <Hobbsee> bugs can be open for up to 10 years.  is 1 year really that bad?  :P
[14:51] <tobias_> Some of the stuff was reported for dapper and is still in hardy:-(
[14:52] <Hobbsee> well, fix it.
[14:52] <Riddell> Hobbsee: new packages?
[14:52] <tobias_> I have fixed the stuff that bothers me and do not care about the rest.
[14:52] <Hobbsee> Riddell: kde 3.5.8
[14:58] <Jucato> emonkey-p: glad to hear that. you're welcome :)
[14:58] <Jucato> dasKreech: wow
[15:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: kdemultimedia, for one - or kdegraphics
[15:06] <Riddell> Hobbsee: probably not
[15:06] <Hobbsee> Riddell: didnt think so.  i had a couple of patches sitting in there
[15:06] <Hobbsee> would be nice if you could belatedly add them
[15:06] <Hobbsee> to hardy, at elast
[15:12] <dasKreech> Jucato: Long post
[15:12] <Jucato> very :)
[15:18] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I will during merges yes
[15:18] <Hobbsee> Riddell: cool
[15:23] <dasKreech> ersion is the convereter ?
[15:24] <dasKreech> yay vista
[15:31]  * dasKreech chases Jucato with a torch
[15:31] <Jucato> :P
[15:31] <Jucato> I'm not here
[15:31] <dasKreech> Here go spread more light!
[15:34] <dasKreech> Jucato: did you pull jjesse's adept documentation ?
[15:35] <Jucato> yeah. but haven't really gotten around to reading it. only touched it a few times to make correct tagging errors
[15:36] <dasKreech> ok
[15:36] <dasKreech> if anyone understands debian packaging
[15:36] <dasKreech>  is there anyway for the OO.o package to figure out your locale and dynamically install the right spellchecker ?
[15:37] <Riddell> the installer should do that
[15:38] <dasKreech> It doesn't
[15:39] <dasKreech> Jucato: that never occured to me before
[15:40] <dasKreech> Guess XFCE is still too young to attract rabidness
[16:35] <Riddell> voila https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup
[16:35] <Riddell> comments welcome
[16:38] <jjesse> dasKreech: sorry missed
[16:38] <nixternal> Riddell: so for the Printer settings, we are going to make it look like the ones in the HPLIP Toolbox
[16:38] <nixternal> I can check that out and come up with a new .ui if that is what is being used
[16:38] <Riddell> it's a bit like that
[16:39] <Riddell> jjesse: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup proofreading needed
[16:39] <jjesse> Riddell: will get to it
[16:39] <nixternal> OK, heading to next class... Riddell, I wouldn't mind working with the printing project, not spear heading it though
[16:39] <nixternal> bbiab
[16:41] <Riddell> nixternal: you've seen seele's blog?
[16:42] <jjesse> which entry was that?
[16:42] <Jucato> http://weblog.obso1337.org/2007/kubuntu-printer-configuration-ui/
[16:43]  * Riddell wonders who GabrielAmbuehl is
[16:43] <_buz> me
[16:43]  * Jucato wonders what seele uses for wireframing..
[16:43] <Riddell> jjesse: visio
[16:43] <Jucato> oh
[16:43] <_buz> (feel free to remove the suggestion if you dont think it belongs there)
[16:44] <Riddell> _buz: what is LUKS?
[16:44] <_buz> encrypted block devices
[16:44] <_buz> http://luks.endorphin.org/dm-crypt
[16:45] <Jucato> _buz: you could also append the @SIG@ macro to your additions so that it could be identified as coming from you (in case youwant that)
[16:45] <_buz> Jucato: oh didnt know that one, will do so in the future ;)
[16:45] <_buz> use case: usb sticks etc
[16:45] <Riddell> _buz: and what is kryptomedia?
[16:45] <Jucato> no problem:
[16:46] <_buz> Riddell: a kde gui that asks user for passwords of encrypted removable drives
[16:46] <_buz> i think it comes from opensuse, originally
[16:47] <_buz> wait i second, did i past the wrong link ;)
[16:47] <_buz> no looks right ;)
[16:56] <Jucato> comment on the Codec installation: with Flash in Konqueror, currently it uses a different script and installs to the user's $HOME right? shouldn't it be done like Amarok/Kaffeine and use adept-batch to install flashplugin-nonfree?
[17:04] <Riddell> _buz: ok, I've tidied up your sentence about including that
[17:47] <mhb> hello to you Americans and UDSers
[17:49] <mhb> Riddell: so you're going to do all the HardyCatchup work?
[17:50] <mhb> I think it's rather a HardCatchup task for one person
[17:51] <jpatrick> mhb: we are a team \o/
[17:52] <jpatrick> I was thinking i could package the krytomanager thingy
[18:06] <Riddell> mhb: as little as possible :)
[18:07] <Riddell> jpatrick: go ahead, but the fiddly part might be to make and test the patch to mediamanager
[18:07] <jpatrick> Riddell: upstream has no version number, should I just call it 1.0?
[18:09] <Riddell> jpatrick: 0.0suseXX maybe
[18:09] <Riddell> where XX is whatever suse uses
[18:10] <jpatrick> ok
[18:10] <dasKreech> vista is scary
[18:10] <Riddell> jpatrick: do you have a disk to actually test it on?
[18:11] <jpatrick> no :) but I'm sure we can find someone
[18:14] <_buz> jpatrick: i'll test it
[18:14] <_buz> but i need go shopping first ;)
[18:14] <dasKreech> For disks?
[18:14] <_buz> i have both usb and normal disks encrypted with luks
[18:15] <jpatrick> _buz: excellent
[18:15] <_buz> but if i have to test it on real life hardy, ill have to install that first
[18:16] <_buz> if you patch gutsy i can test it in a matter of seconds
[18:16] <Nightrose> Riddell FYI about the /Music thing: Harald posted to our -dev mailinglist (don't know if you are subscribed) about it so expect some discussion - maybe a patch for kubuntu will not be necessary if we find a good solution
[18:16] <jpatrick> _buz: I'll try and have a test pkg for you by Friday
[18:19]  * Riddell reads http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/amarok-devel/2007-October/000723.html
[18:20] <jpatrick> go apachelogger!
[18:20] <Riddell> sounds good
[18:21] <mhb> Riddell: right, but you should do a lot of coding, because otherwise we're wasting your potential :o)
[18:22] <Riddell> mhb: oh I expect I will
[18:23] <mhb> but you should do what you like to, that's the rule of thumb
[18:24] <mhb> it might be interesting to patch Kaffeine so that it offers codec installation instead of the error message...
[18:24] <mhb> and still, Ubuntu does it so that it installs the codec first, then plays the file...
[18:27] <Riddell> mhb: are you still interested in a compiz kcontrol module?
[18:28] <mhb> indeed I am
[18:28] <mhb> Riddell: I've seen you have discussed this, did you talk to mvo about that?
[18:30] <Riddell> mhb: only that it should be much the same as Appearances capplet in gnome
[18:30] <mhb> that shouldn't be very hard
[18:30] <Riddell> no, it shouldn't
[18:31] <mhb> I already have some stub, I will look into that
[18:31] <Riddell> it should also offter to install compiz-kde through adept_batch i think
[18:32] <mhb> Riddell: I can do that frontend.
[18:33] <mhb> creating a compiz-kde package and packaging the ccsm KDE frontend can be done by someone else.
[18:34] <Riddell> compiz-kde exists
[18:34] <Riddell> there is no ccsm KDE frontend (and I don't think it's worth doing)
[18:35] <mhb> hmm.
[18:35] <mhb> so no "custom" effects in KDE?
[18:35] <Riddell> install ccsm if you want that
[18:35] <Riddell> it's not a core tool by any means
[18:35] <Riddell> and it's horrifically complex
[18:36] <mhb> okay
[18:42] <_buz> writing a gui for compiz seems pretty much waste of time, yes
[18:44] <Riddell> Lure|kde4: how's kde 4?
[18:44] <Lure|kde4> Riddell: yep, playink with svn version
[18:44] <Lure|kde4> playing even ;-)
[18:50] <Lure|kde4> Riddell: system settings in kde4 does not have admin mode - is this kubuntu specific or just missing in kde4 version?
[18:51] <Riddell> Lure|kde4: it has been removed to be replaced with policykit.  the problem is nobody seems to be implementing policykit
[18:52] <Riddell> (for kde 4)
[18:52] <Lure|kde4> do we have policykit already in ubuntu?
[18:52] <Riddell> nope
[18:52] <Riddell> but it will be in hardy
[18:52] <Riddell> and packages are in debian experimental
[18:53]  * Lure|kde4 need to upgrade to hardy this weekend
[18:53] <Riddell> hi garth_
[18:54] <garth_> hi Riddell
[18:54] <garth_> and hi all :)
[18:54] <Riddell> nixternal: so, how's kde 4 beta thing?
[18:56] <Riddell> hmm, lpia buildds
[18:56] <Riddell> for PPA
[19:03] <fdoving> so, anyone aware of a reverse phone number lookup website for mexico? - I have some guy calling me every day at the exact same time.
[19:03] <profoX`> scary
[19:04] <fdoving> more annoying.
[19:04] <fdoving> i'm oh the other side of the world, as long as he is calling from there i'll be calm :)
[19:04] <fdoving>  /oh/on
[19:04] <dasKreech> You can redirect phonelines
[19:07] <Riddell> answer?
[19:08] <fdoving> Riddell: hangs up or silence. depends. i haven't waited for more than 1-2 min.
[19:08] <fdoving> it costs loads just to listed.
[19:09] <fdoving> it also leaves 20-30 sec random noise (phone in pocket/crowded room) on my voicemail if i don't answer.
[19:09] <fdoving> haven't tried calling back yet.
[19:09] <Riddell> why does it cost you to answer?
[19:10] <fdoving> good question.
[19:11] <fdoving> it probably doesn't. it's the other way around. when i'm out of my providers network. well :)
[19:11] <fdoving> i'll listen for a while longer next time then :)
[19:12] <seele> there was another ubiquity-usability session today?
[19:12] <dasKreech> arewe trying to catch up to Gutsy or hardy ?
[19:12] <dasKreech> hi Lure|kde4
[19:12] <Lure|kde4> hi dasKreech
[19:17] <jjesse> Riddell: enjoying the compiz converstation?
[19:19] <Riddell> jjesse: transparent file manager!
[19:19] <jjesse> impressive :)
[19:19] <Riddell> I can see the reviews now "Kubuntu 8.04 is way behind Ubuntu, the file manager is opaque"
[19:20] <jjesse> Riddell: i'll jsut tell them to wait tto kde 4
[19:20] <jjesse> KDE4 will solve every problem
[19:20] <jjesse> !voip
[19:20] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about voip - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[19:21] <jjesse> Riddell: hrm heading back to server discussion more intersting
[19:24] <dasKreech> jjesse: What did you miss?
[19:25] <jjesse> dasKreech: i think there was a pm from you about adept doc or something?
[19:26] <dasKreech> jjesse: no I ws talking to jucato about your adept documentation
[19:26] <jjesse> dasKreech: ah Jucato was going to work on reviewing it
[19:32] <dasKreech> Yeah
[19:34] <nixternal> Riddell: I have to start over on the KDE 4 stuff...I was looking through ktown, and the stuff I grabbed the other day wasn't complete...i.e. kdebase-runtime
[19:34] <manchicken> So are we ever going to put Basket support back into kontact?
[19:34] <manchicken> I'm lost without Basket...
[19:34] <jjesse> i thought basket no longer had a developer?
[19:35] <manchicken> I understand that many regard it as abandonware, but it still works, and works pretty well.
[19:35] <manchicken> I don't know if knotes has much active development either :)
[19:36] <nixternal> knotes just got a makeover for kde 4
[19:36]  * nixternal would like to see a "tomboy" for kde
[19:36] <Riddell> nixternal: where are you seeing this kdebase-runtime?
[19:36] <manchicken> I just want baskets back in kontact :'(
[19:36]  * jjesse would like to see one note in linux
[19:37] <nixternal> Riddell: I downloaded it from ktown the other day
[19:37] <nixternal> I have it on my 64bit desktop
[19:37] <Riddell> nixternal: what's the path of it on ktown?
[19:37] <nixternal> it isn't in ktown anymore :)
[19:37] <Riddell> are you thinking of -workspace?
[19:37] <jjesse> nixternal: don't bother Riddell he is re-writing Compiz-KDE :)
[19:37] <nixternal> no, runtime
[19:37] <Riddell> well if it's not on ktown now then it's not needed
[19:37] <nixternal> there was kdebase, kdebase-runtime, and kdebase-workspace the other day
[19:38] <jjesse> what is ktown?
[19:38] <nixternal> Riddell: ya, there were updates to the packages since my last download, so I am going to grab them (libs and base) and redo them
[19:38] <nixternal> jjesse: right next to funky town
[19:38] <Riddell> KDE's main server
[19:38] <jjesse> oh
[19:38] <nixternal> won't you take me.
[19:38] <nixternal> ktown
[19:38] <nixternal> err, I messed that song up
[19:38] <mhb> to
[19:38] <nixternal> thanks mhb :)
[19:38] <jjesse> nixternal: like i said don't bother Riddell he's re-writting Compiz-KDE
[19:38] <Riddell> nixternal: I just uploaded the new kdebase to the PPA
[19:39]  * Riddell is doing no such thing
[19:39] <nixternal> Riddell: well then, I will do the rest then :)
[19:39] <jjesse> i think that was what the session i just left was about....
[19:39] <Riddell> nixternal: well I have some time, let's share them out
[19:39] <nixternal> up to you beefpatty
[19:39] <Lure> manchicken: there is bug with proposed fix (.desktop file change) for basket
[19:39] <nixternal> imbrandon: ^^ new one, add it to the dictionary
[19:39] <manchicken> Lure: Will that fix the integration?
[19:40] <nixternal> manchicken: why don't you take over basket and make it better?
[19:40] <manchicken> nixternal: I really like it as it is to be honest with you.
[19:40] <Riddell> nixternal: if I grab kdebase-workspace and extragear-plasma you go ahead with others?
[19:40] <Lure> manchicken: they claim it should (it is just different plugin abi version)
[19:40] <nixternal> I personally didn't like it, but I do see where it might be useful while sitting in class sometimes
[19:40] <manchicken> Other than a handful of annoyances I really think it's about perfect.
[19:40] <nixternal> Riddell: works for me
[19:40] <nixternal> I will upload them to the ppa starting now, and while I am at school tonight....javascript class, that stuff is to easy
[19:40] <manchicken> Lure: Good.  I'll stop crying when it's fixed. :'(
[19:40] <manchicken> I promise
[19:41] <nixternal> Riddell: how do I properly use a chroot for the kde4 builds when everytime I try to install one of the debs, it cries about dbus...I have tried install dbus on multiple occassions into the chroot, but it still cries
[19:41] <nixternal> am I missing something?
[19:42] <Riddell> nixternal: rm /var/lib/dpkg/info/dbus.postinst or whatever it is
[19:43] <jjesse> nixternal: just do an rm -rf /
[19:43] <jjesse> and then install
[19:44] <nixternal> Riddell: roger
[19:45] <nixternal> Riddell: do you see kdepimlibs in ktown? I sure don't
[19:45] <nixternal> Riddell: found it and the runtime
[19:45] <nixternal> look under 3.95/platform
[19:46] <Riddell> oh.  meh.
[19:47] <nixternal> hehe, the other day though it was just under 3.95, there were no subdirectories
[19:47] <Riddell> nixternal: ok, want me to do that?
[19:47] <nixternal> go for it :)
[19:48] <Riddell> where does it fit in?
[19:48] <Lure> manchicken: if you did not find: just change Plugin version to 6 in /usr/share/services/kontact/basket.desktop and restart kontact
[19:49] <manchicken> Lure: Really?
[19:49] <Lure> manchicken: yes
[19:49] <Lure> manchicken: we have rebuilt it (Hobbsee) just before release, but we forgot about desktop file
[19:49] <nixternal> Riddell: check the debian kde4 repos, they already started on the packaging of it
[19:50] <Lure> manchicken: we could probably ask for sru as many users complained and fix is obvious
[19:50] <manchicken> OMFG Lure's a freakin' genius!
[19:50] <Riddell> Lure: go ahead
[19:51] <Lure> Riddell: need to check universe processes, sometimes they are more strict than for main...
[19:51] <Riddell> by the way, anyone have an opinion on not having ksplash in hardy?
[19:51] <nixternal> what would you do with it?
[19:52] <Riddell> throw it away
[19:52] <Riddell> a la ubuntu
[19:52] <nixternal> where it is just blank until everything loads up?
[19:52] <Riddell> yes
[19:52] <nixternal> hrmm, don't bother me truthfully...but I do like the simple one that I think mhb made, or it maybe have been fdoving
[19:53] <Nightrose> giving feedback to the user ftw! - usability wise removing that would be very bad without giving some kind of indication something is done
[19:53] <Lure> Riddell: fine with me actually, current one is not very descriptive anyhow
[19:53] <fdoving> nixternal: probably mhb, though i use the theme named "Simple"
[19:53] <nixternal> fdoving: ok, I couldn't remember which one of you tweaked the simple ksplash and made it look cool
[19:54] <fdoving> i didn't :)
[19:54] <manchicken> Lure: Do you have any idea how much easier you just made my life?  Much thanks.
[19:54] <Lure> manchicken: ;-)
[19:54]  * Lure will prepare sru to make others happy too ;-)
[19:54] <manchicken> My client is so scatter-brained that I'm having to take lots of notes, and it's just hard to keep the notes organized in knotes.
[19:55] <manchicken> Baskets is just the ideal program for that sort of thing.
[19:58] <fdoving> manchicken: tried kjots ?
[19:58] <CPrgmSwR2> Where is the packages for kde4 beta4?
[19:58] <manchicken> Not.
[19:59] <manchicken> nope*
[20:00] <mhb> nixternal: that'd be me
[20:01] <manchicken> Wait, is kjots the program that stores regular notes hierarchically?
[20:01] <mhb> nixternal: I like it, too .o)
[20:03] <mhb> nixternal: of course, two entities must like it in order to push it - Riddell and the majority :o)
[20:04] <mhb> Riddell: if you ask me, I'd have some sort of indication that the system loads up ... KDE loads a wee bit slower than GNOME does here
[20:04] <mhb> Riddell: I'm for a lighter splash all the way, though.
[20:04] <jpatrick> Riddell: suse kdebase patch for LUKS: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42840/
[20:07] <Riddell> jpatrick: put it into bzr if you want
[20:07] <jpatrick> Riddell: affirmative
[20:10] <mhb> Riddell: what do you think about it?
[20:12] <Riddell> mhb: dunno, I've removed ksplash on my machine for now, waiting for a reboot to see what I think
[20:13] <mhb> Riddell: a simple ksplash (like I did) can speed up the KDE start (few seconds gain)
[20:13] <fdoving> none probably gains even more.
[20:13] <Nightrose> Riddell: see http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/amarok-devel/2007-October/000724.html
[20:13] <mhb> empty splash could go a little further, but it shouldn't be long
[20:14] <mhb> err, that much
[20:16] <mhb> let's hear Riddell's analysis
[20:17] <Lure> Riddell: first time preparing package for -proposed: what do I need to change to get it uploaded to right repo?
[20:17] <Lure> Riddell: and version is by standard .1, right?
[20:20] <nixternal> Riddell: which kde4 packages are you going to do now?
[20:20] <nixternal> that way there, once they are up, I can put them in my schroot and finish off the rest
[20:20] <Riddell> nixternal: strigi, kdebase-workspace, kdebase-runtime, extragear-plasma
[20:21] <nixternal> OK, I don't think I need to depend on any of them for the rest of the packages
[20:23] <nixternal> you guys see Ubuntu is now being sold in Walmart? gOS
[20:24] <mhb> Riddell: so what about the ksplash?
[20:25] <Riddell> mhb: I commented above ("dunno...")
[20:25] <mhb> Riddell: yeah, I just thought you rebooted now that you speak :o)
[20:26] <Riddell> mhb: no, I'm waiting until my laptop does it for me, which usually isn't long
[20:26] <Riddell> Nightrose: kubuntu doesn't add ~/Music to amarokrc by default.  I'd worry that if we did we'd lose the "Build Collection" button that new users get
[20:28] <Nightrose> Riddell: i see - don't know enough about that to give you any hint here but when the time for a decision comes just talk to one of our devs - I will post you links to further replies when there are any
[20:29] <ryanakca> hmm... random idea for Hardy, take it or leave it, but maybe create a Documents/ , Music/ , Pictures/ in /etc/skel/ , and then if we wanted, set the appropriate KDE icons for the directories?
[20:29] <Riddell> ryanakca: see http://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup
[20:29] <ryanakca> Riddell: thanks
[20:33] <ryanakca> Riddell: cool, so, with XDG Home Dirs, XDG would create a directory specifically for say "Music", and then it would inform all programs that the default location for music is in "Music/" ?
[20:34] <ryanakca> and likewise for documents, pictures, downloads, video, etc?
[20:34] <Riddell> ryanakca: essentially, run it if you want to see
[20:34] <Riddell> cat ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
[20:39] <ryanakca> :)
[21:01] <jpatrick> Riddell: kdebase patch pushed
[21:12] <Sime> anyone here know where the defaults for kde are kept? (for colours, fonts etc)
[21:13] <Riddell> scattered throughout KDE
[21:14] <_StefanS_> Riddell: isn't it /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile ?
[21:14] <_StefanS_> - kde-profile
[21:14] <Sime> ok then, where do the defaults for colours and fonts live?
[21:14] <Riddell> yes kubuntu keeps our overrides in /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/kdeglobals
[21:14] <Riddell> KDE itself is another question
[21:14] <Lure> Riddell: can you get basket through gutsy-proposed? (waiting for distro manager approval)
[21:14] <Sime> I've got netbeans here which is a Java swing app and I'm trying to de-uglyify it.
[21:15] <Riddell> Lure: I can see it, I'm not sure I'm allowed to approve it
[21:15] <Lure> Riddell: ok, will have to wait then
[21:16] <Sime> cool, that's it.
[21:16] <DaSkreech> Ther is a new basket?
[21:18] <Riddell> Lure: well, maybe I can
[21:18] <Lure> Riddell: wait
[21:18] <Lure> Riddell: it looks like I need to change Maintainer after all (was not warned as version was build)
[21:19] <Riddell> you don't
[21:19] <Lure> Riddell: ok, then it is fine
[21:19] <Lure> Riddell:  will change it for hardy version
[21:19] <Lure> Riddell: will be ubuntu1 there
[21:25] <Riddell> Lure: accepted, please update the bug status and add the tag and find some testers
[21:25] <Lure> Riddell: will wait to get repo and will mail ubuntu-motu and kubuntu-devel and kubuntu for testers
[21:26] <Lure> Riddell: I have also uploaded fix for hardy
[21:26] <Riddell> thanks
[21:40] <jpatrick> _buz: ping
[21:41] <jpatrick> _buz: kde-luks test package on my ppa: https://edge.launchpad.net/~jpatrick/+archive
[21:42] <jpatrick> not yet built tho, but it's only a matter of time
[22:30] <Lure> mhb: I though that you were planning to do something like this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PartitionManagement
[22:34] <Riddell> his spec is different
[22:37] <Lure> Riddell: should we merge?
[22:37] <Riddell> no, they're different
[22:51] <mhb> Lure: something similar
[23:13] <DaSkreech> Lure: There is a a new basket?
[23:14] <Lure> DaSkreech: uploaded to hardy and gutsy-proposed
[23:14] <DaSkreech> Neart
[23:14] <Lure> DaSkreech: fixes integration in kontact
[23:14] <Riddell> Lure: doesn't it need to install basket.desktop ?
[23:15] <Lure> Riddell: it does, or?
[23:15] <Lure> Riddell: I tested upgrade here and it worked, will try again with -proposed version
[23:15] <Lure> Riddell: the change is only version of plugin in .desktop file
[23:21] <Riddell> mm right, it works
[23:50] <mhb> :q
[23:50] <mhb> hehe, vim overdose
[23:52] <begert> oh look, i has plasma...neat
[23:58] <DaSkreech> begert: lolcat?
[23:59] <begert> indeed