/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/10/31/#ubuntu-mobile.txt

=== sabotage is now known as sabotage_afk
=== Sciri_ is now known as Sciri
bazhangwondering if Ubuntu-mobile will work on the eeepc (eeeuser.com)03:19
bazhangI see the Kojinsha sh6 (sp?) but not the eeepc; any chance that will added later--similar intel chipset I believe.03:30
bazhangoops in the wiki03:30
nrpsh6 and the others are A100/A110, arent they?03:35
nrpeee is a celeron03:35
bazhangyou're right. is that a problem?03:36
bazhangtoo powerful?03:36
nrpno idea, theyre both x86.  not sure if they use the same/similar northbridges though03:37
nrpdoes the a110 even have a northbridge? or is it all integrated into the cpu?03:38
bazhanggot me there--though the wiki does state this will possibly work on other i386 03:38
nrpah, has anyone tried it?03:39
bazhangI'll do it, as soon as they have some packages--currently waiting for a Debian live installer in the next couple of days.03:40
=== asac_ is now known as asac
HappyCamp_2StevenK: a favor? :)13:29
HappyCamp_2The pyinotify package:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyinotify/0.7.0-2ubuntu1/+build/36467113:29
StevenKHappyCamp_2: Name?13:29
StevenKUm13:29
StevenKHappyCamp_2: Name it?13:29
HappyCamp_2I'm waving at you13:29
HappyCamp_2We need a slight modification to the package to make it lpia.13:30
bspencerHappyCamp_2: python-inotify and gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse  ?13:33
HappyCamp_2bspencer: yep13:33
bspencerI just read cathy's email.  13:33
bspenceryou're doing that?13:33
HappyCamp_2StevenK: what does "bad-multiverse" mean in "gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse"13:38
HappyCamp_2Is it a screwed up package?13:38
StevenKHappyCamp_2: Nope.13:39
HappyCamp_2bad license?13:40
StevenKHappyCamp_2: Firstly, -multiverse points to the fact that due to licensing, it's in multiverse.13:40
HappyCamp_2that I think I got, the bad was the confusing part13:40
StevenKHappyCamp_2: Secondly, -bad is from upstream. Gstreamer upstream declares codecs they support as good, bad, and ugly. Good is it's well supported, Bad is it's okay-ish supported, and Ugly is if it breaks, you get all of the pieces13:41
HappyCamp_2Ah, okay.  I was maybe thinking "bad" was some debian/ubuntu declaration.  Thanks for clarifying StevenK 13:42
StevenKHappyCamp_2: No problem13:42
HappyCamp_2Sciri: what do you get if you run the command: sudo smartctl -d ata -a /dev/sda | grep 19313:50
HappyCamp_2I was reading this, that was slashdotted.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/5969513:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 59695 in acpi-support "default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks (dup-of: 17216)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 13:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 17216 in acpi-support "Hard drive spindown should be configurable" [High,Fix committed] 13:51
SciriHappyCamp_2: I'm on VMWare on the Mac. ;) A mandatory SMART command failed: exiting. To continue, add one or more '-T permissive' options.13:53
SciriHappyCamp_2: I do however have my SMART stats on the Mac side...13:53
HappyCamp_2Sciri: then I doubt it would apply to you then.13:53
SciriHappyCamp_2: Yeah, elmo had me check the Mac side of things last night to compare Mac stats to Ubuntu stats.13:54
loolStevenK: It's the other way around: -bad are the really bad plugins which either are broken or have major issues to promote them; ugly is for plugins which have distribution issues but are otherwise fully ok (work fine, has documentation, etc.) such as being GPL14:03
StevenKAh ha14:03
bspencersmagoun:  can you give me the URL for your email mockup again?14:03
smagounbspencer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded  . Scroll down to the "Example UIs section"14:03
bspencerthx14:04
HappyCamp_2instability = pain14:08
HappyCamp_2bspencer: 14:08
bspencerHappyCamp_2: 14:09
=== davidm_ is now known as davidm
loolbspencer: 14:10
HappyCamp_2lool: I have a patch for x264 can you check it out?14:11
loolHappyCamp_2: Sure14:12
loolI don't know whether I can upload to multiverse, but I guess so?14:12
loolHappyCamp_2: If it's an upstream fix, I can push it upstream actually and down to Ubuntu via Debian14:12
HappyCamp_2http://moblin.pastebin.org/660514:12
HappyCamp_2lool14:12
HappyCamp_2Okay, I'm not sure which one it is.14:13
HappyCamp_2It is in the x264 package.14:13
loolOk14:13
HappyCamp_2I don't think it is a major change, but the package failed to build in lpia.14:13
loolI'm fixed it in the Debian SVN (well it's an unofficial repo)14:14
HappyCamp_2lool thanks :)  So how long would that take to propogate to Ubuntu?14:15
loolIt wont propagate to Ubuntu via Debian like I thought first as it's not in Debian officially; I'll prepare an upload to Ubuntu now14:15
HappyCamp_2lool, excellent!14:16
HappyCamp_2bspencer: do you have an email that you are checking from your Ubuntu system?14:26
HappyCamp_2bspencer: s/email/email address/14:29
bspencerI'm currently in Windows going through my mail. 14:30
bspencerAfter I boot back into Ubuntu I don't have mail acces14:30
bspencers14:30
HappyCamp_2bspencer: I was thinking maybe you had a gmail or something account that you could use14:31
HappyCamp_2anyway I sent email to you intel.com account just now.14:31
bspenceryeah.  I do if you want to send it to chefebe at gmail14:31
bspencerthough you'll have to tell me to check it because it is just a spam account now14:31
HappyCamp_2check you intel email :)14:31
loolHappyCamp_2: It's in14:39
HappyCamp_2lool, thanks so is that allowed to go into Gutsy? 14:39
HappyCamp_2Since it didn't even build at all in Gutsy.14:40
loolHappyCamp_2: No, I uploaded to hardy; technically that's perhaps important enough a bug to be allowed in a SRU, but "multiverse" makes it much less likely to be and a SRU is a lot of work14:40
HappyCamp_2:(  bspencer see what lool said?14:41
HappyCamp_2https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x26414:41
smagounbspencer: I moved a couple documents about mobile UIs to the ubuntu wiki:14:47
smagounhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/DesigningForFingerUIs14:47
smagounhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/ImprovingUserExperience14:47
smagounThey're linked from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide14:47
=== sabotage_afk is now known as sabotage
bspencerMithrandir: lool   I want to create a new blueprint for mobile16:39
bspencerI go here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/16:39
bspencerand click "add blueprint" button.  How do I associate it with mobile though?16:39
Mithrandirsubscribe ubuntu-mobile to it16:40
bspencerah, thx16:40
bspencerMithrandir: participatieon essential ?16:41
Mithrandirno16:41
Mithrandirthat's going to make the scheduler explode16:41
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== asac_ is now known as asac
amitkHappyCamp_2: ping20:07
HappyCamp_2amitk: here20:12
HappyCamp_2rob_moblin: thinking about having the meeting here.20:12
robrHappyCamp_2: OK20:13
HappyCamp_2amitk: ??20:15
amitkrobr_ubuntu: hello20:16
HappyCamp_2Okay we got robr and amitk20:16
HappyCamp_2I think tonyespy was interested too20:16
tonyespyi'm here20:16
robrso what's the issue20:17
amitkso the discussion was about getting moblin patches into Ubuntu20:17
amitkcurrently, the patches are dpatches and commits do more than one thing20:18
robramitk: you should have the latest patches now for the ones i know about except the following:20:18
amitkrobr_ubuntu: I don't have the latest patches from anyone20:18
amitkI just know they are in the moblin tree20:18
robrpsb gfx, pierre's sdio stack, and a fix up for the hd audio on C020:19
robramitk: why do you say that?20:19
amitkrobr_ubuntu: 1. They are in dpatch format.20:20
tonyespycould i jump in for a second and try to explain?20:20
amitksure20:20
tonyespythere are a couple of issues, but the main one that i see is that patches are not being pushed and/or pulled on a regular basis from moblin to ubuntu20:21
tonyespythus, the mobile biz unit has had to build custom kernels20:22
robrtonyespy: when we have patches for you to take we always push them20:22
tonyespywith individual patches pulled from moblin20:22
robrtonyespy: which patches?20:22
tonyespysdio, marvel8688, alsa...20:22
tonyespysome of them were pushed, but when the patches were updated, they weren't necessarily pushed again20:23
robrtonyespy: we will not push marvell's drivers, you need to get them from marvell20:23
robrthe sdio stack is still under development, when it's stable we will push it20:23
tonyespywe've still needed to grab fixes to the sdio stack for our 'customer'20:24
robrwe've purposed not pushed the sdio stack because it's still under thrash from development20:24
tonyespyfor instance there was an update to the sdio patch that allowed the sd memory cards and the marvell wifi to work at the same time20:25
tonyespyamit and/or happycamp_2 is mike frey around???  he should be involved in this conv, and perhaps bob as well...20:26
robrtonyespy: i think that's a special case, that was on the mss stack which we're trying NOT to develop on any long and trying to work on getting Pierre's new sdio stack production ready20:26
HappyCamp_2Mike is not here.20:27
amitktonyespy might know. I am not in the same room20:27
tonyespyneither am i.  ;)20:27
robrtonyespy: we won't push drivers until we consider them stable enough to be pushed, mss is what we're trying to get away from20:27
HappyCamp_2To me it sounds like the main problem is that there is a lack of communication on what is going on between intel, amit, and canonical lexington.20:28
tonyespyunderstood, however we're stuck in the middle trying to manage customer expectations...20:28
tonyespyyup20:28
HappyCamp_2Should we add a kernel sync up portion to the weekly ubuntu-mobile meeting that Mithrandir and davidm run?20:29
HappyCamp_2Just to make sure that people know what is going on?20:29
HappyCamp_2Thoughts?20:29
tonyespythat might be useful...20:29
robrtonyespy: i think it's perfectly reasonable to have you guys pull from our tree while we're doing development -- with better communication20:29
amitkperhaps we should have a temp tree that can contain these patches so that the lexington team can support customers20:29
davidmHappyCamp_2, we could but I'm planning on canceling the meeting this week.20:29
robramitk: you do, it's called moblin.org ;-)20:29
tonyespy;)20:30
HappyCamp_2davidm: I'm suggesting for future meetings.  20:30
amitkrobr_ubuntu: that is the problem. Because you use the dpatch mechanim, we can't directly pull from your tree... it requires manual massaging20:30
HappyCamp_2robr but he doesn't like the dpatches.20:30
robrthe meeting agenda item is a good idea, but the meeting time is bad for me -- it would be better if it was at 10am20:30
HappyCamp_2amitk: what would you like instead of that?20:30
amitkplain patches 20:30
HappyCamp_2Maybe we can do something different, though ultimately up to robr20:30
HappyCamp_2robr thoughts?20:31
amitkideally, I would like to be able to just do a git pull from the moblin tree. Currently that's just not possible.20:31
robri'm trying to understand why the dpatches are an issue, if you just strip off the header you've got a plain patch-- seems like there's more to it than that20:32
tonyespyi *think* the issue is that the ubuntu kernel git tree has patches directly applied, whereas moblin stores patches as individual dpatches, therefore it's harder to diff and/or pull between the two trees20:33
tonyespyis that right amit?20:33
amitkrobr_ubuntu: it means exporting the patches manually, stripping off the header, applying to our tree for every relevant commit20:33
amitkand then if you do an update, it is rinse, wash, repeat20:34
amitkit would be nice to be able to just say git cherry-pick <sha> from your tree instead20:34
robramitk / tonyespy : we're not going to move to a system where we commit our patches directly to the kernel -- we'll always have patch files20:34
HappyCamp_2robr why is that?20:34
* HappyCamp_2 is clueless on kernel development20:35
robrHappyCamp_2: because it's bad form -- i want the pristine source to remain pristine and to be able to keep track of what patches have been applied to the pristine sources20:36
HappyCamp_2robr but doesn't git allow you to do that?20:36
robrHappyCamp_2: not when you have tons of commits on top of commits20:37
HappyCamp_2amitk: any thoughts on that?20:37
amitk<sigh> what can I say? Can you atleast notify us of 'beta' patch updates to the aforementioned subsystems? I don't want to be polling the moblin kernel for changes.20:38
tonyespyalong  the same lines as amit...from my Pov, one of the other things that's difficult is knowing when a patch has been updated in the moblin tree; especially when the name of the patch doesn't change...20:39
suihkulokkiAs a complete outsider, I'd also be interested in finding out how to use git to maintain a patchset the same way one can with quilt (or dpatch, but dpatch sucks:P)20:40
amitkrobr_ubuntu: FWIW, that IS the job of a revision control system.... to track history20:40
robramitk: what we can do better is give you patches that work with your kernel tree, which we've been doing in the past. both alek and jacob have given you guys patches that are specific to your tree20:40
tonyespyrobr: yes, a revision system tells you history, but only if you ask20:40
tonyespytypically an SCS is setup with email notifications...20:41
HappyCamp_2amitk: I know that I am not a git expert and I am not sure if robr is either.  Maybe we don't know about features in git that would enable us to satisfy robr's desire of being able to have the pristine and all the patches.20:41
HappyCamp_2But also enable you to cherry-pick the patches.20:41
amitkrobr_ubuntu: yes.. that would make it easy. I haven't received patches from them in a long time though. Not after the original enablement patches.20:41
amitkHappyCamp_2: no you can't do that.20:42
robramitk: that's because we've not really had anything we consider ready to give to you20:42
HappyCamp_2robr, so I guess they want to know what we are doing even if we don't think it is ready for them.20:42
tonyespyyes20:42
robrright, we need better communication20:42
HappyCamp_2So we should try to have a status notification and let them make the decision if they want the stuff or not.20:43
robrso let's start with an update now, right here20:43
tonyespysure20:43
amitkrobr_ubuntu: Then I guess, the only disagreement is what you think is READY. Since the guys in Lexington could use even beta-class improvements,  we would appreciate knowing about updates to the thermal, SDIO, SD8686,  patches20:43
amitktonyespy: did I miss anything?20:43
robrHappyCamp_2: can they subscribe to the check-in email list -- that would give them notification of changes immediatly20:44
tonyespyi think we're on top of SD8686, it's a whole other saga...20:44
tonyespycool20:44
HappyCamp_2amitk: So I think we will try to update you on changes, at least once a week, on what we are doing, in whatever form the patches are.  Is that agreeable robr?20:44
HappyCamp_2robr, yes they can.  http://www.moblin.org/mailman/listinfo/20:45
robrMSS is dead, we're trying to switch to Pierre's stack -- Feng has been at Marvell this week working with them to integrate their driver on Pierre's stack -- their sd8688 driver is still not gpl'd20:45
HappyCamp_2https://www.moblin.org/mailman/listinfo/commits20:45
HappyCamp_2But that is ALL commits at moblin.org.20:45
robralso you guys can always ask me on irc if you have questions20:45
HappyCamp_2personally I think a little kernel update during davidm meeting or in the status report sent weekly to ubuntu-mobile would be good too.20:46
robrwhat we have on moblin.org now is a patch for mss, pierre's sdio and sd868620:46
amitkHappyCamp_2: robr_ubuntu: Thanks. I guess tonyespy will then keep track of changes and inform me of anything that can be pushed into Ubuntu.20:46
robrHappyCamp_2 : understood20:47
HappyCamp_2tonyespy: can you pass this info on to mfrey?20:47
HappyCamp_2#startmeeting20:47
MootBotMeeting started at 20:47. The chair is HappyCamp_2.20:47
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]20:47
tonyespyyes, i can pass on to mike20:47
HappyCamp_2topic kernel communication20:47
HappyCamp_2[topic] kernel communication20:48
MootBotNew Topic:  kernel communication 20:48
HappyCamp_2[action] tonyespy to communicate meeting info to mfrey20:48
MootBotACTION received:  tonyespy to communicate meeting info to mfrey 20:48
tonyespyguess i'll also volunteer to grab the commit messages and see if i can create a rule to filter out everything but kernel patches20:48
robrthe other status item is the latest kernel pieces for the Gfx driver, which we're ready to give you now but there will be more changes in about 4 weeks20:48
HappyCamp_2[action] robr to update Cannoical Lexington and amitk with weekly info on the moblin.org kernel patches20:49
MootBotACTION received:  robr to update Cannoical Lexington and amitk with weekly info on the moblin.org kernel patches 20:49
HappyCamp_2[topic] latest kernel pieces for the Gfx driver20:50
MootBotNew Topic:  latest kernel pieces for the Gfx driver 20:50
tonyespyrobr: are the changes for the Gfx driver commited as a patch in the moblin kernel tree?20:50
robri don't have any information on the thermals other than i should be receiving new patches soon, the team in umg working on the thermals is supposed to be working directly with you guys on it -- we were taken out of the loop on that one20:51
robrtonyespy: no, they're an out-tree driver package20:52
amitkrobr_ubuntu: I only know that there should be some patches for thermal  in 1st week of Nov20:52
tonyespyok20:52
HappyCamp_2amitk: tonyespy Is there anything else that you feel we need to cover.  Anything that robr and I can do?20:53
amitkI am ok with this arrangement for now. Thanks guys.20:53
tonyespyrobr: can you send me the details on the Gfx driver pieces?  other than that, i *think* we're covered for now.  i'll discuss with mike & amit tomorrow20:54
HappyCamp_2Okay.  Thanks a lot for your time :)20:54
HappyCamp_2Thanks for attending robr!20:54
tonyespythanks rob!20:54
HappyCamp_2[action] robr to send details on Gfs driver to tonyespy 20:54
MootBotACTION received:  robr to send details on Gfs driver to tonyespy  20:54
HappyCamp_2#endmeeting20:54
MootBotMeeting finished at 20:54.20:54
robrtonyespy: i'll have jacob_p send you the info20:55
tonyespyok, thanka again20:55
HappyCamp_2Log for meeting at: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/20:56
jacob_ptonyespy, the graphics driver kernel piece is in a separate package called psb-kmd20:58
HappyCamp_2jacob_p: link please21:05
robrtonyespy HappyCamp_2: http://www.moblin.org/repos/projects/psb-kmd.git/21:07
robrtonyespy HappyCamp_2 : the corresponding X Windows pieces are here http://www.moblin.org/repos/projects/xf86-video-psb.git/21:09
robrjacob_p: can you fill in tonyespy with the details of the Beta1 Gfx driver21:12
robrtonyespy: i'm not sure either jacob_p or i have your email address21:13
tonyespyrob, sorry had to step away from my desk. my email is: tony.espy@canonical.com21:15
=== tonyespy is now known as espy
=== espy is now known as tespy
=== tespy is now known as awe
=== awe is now known as te
=== te is now known as awe
jacob_ptonyespy, i will send you an email.21:31
awethanks jacob21:32
=== awe is now known as tonyespy
HappyCamp_2tonyespy: so did you have a name for that club?21:44
SciriHappyCamp_2: You going clubbing tonight? ;)21:47
HappyCamp_2Maybe :)  He said there was a good band playing.21:47
HappyCamp_2thanks tonyespy 21:48
SciriHappyCamp_2: There's Middle East right around the corner. http://www.mideastclub.com/ Rockstar Games Presents : The Big Big Bucks as The Breeders, Indefinite Article as Talking Heads, Baker as The Cars, The Self Righteous Brothers as The Beatles, The Creedence Clearwater Revivalists (Live demos of Manhunt 2 for the Wii and PS2)21:48
SciriDon't know if he was talking about one of those. If not there's Avalon and Lansdown Street Clubs.21:48
HappyCamp_2Sciri: thanks21:50
HappyCamp_2tonyespy: sorry not using registered nick21:50
Sciritonyespy: /msg nickserv register CHOOSE-A-PASSWORD-FOR-IRC21:51
HappyCamp_2not tonyespy I'm not using a registered nick Sciri 21:51
* HappyCamp_2 is a loser21:51
SciriHappyCamp_2: Slacker.21:52
* HappyCamp_2 is a looser, seems like ever more of a loser to misspell it :)21:52
tonyespyso happy_camp2, not registered nick, so you didn't see any of that stuff i just typed to you???  ;)22:03
tonyespyoh well... no happy_camp2.   for those interested, there's a great band (   http://www.myspace.com/andreagillis  ) playing at "toast" in union square ( http://www.toastlounge.com/directions/ ).  Music probably starts around 9:30 / 10ish...22:07
tonyespyforgot to prefix with: "for those at UDS-Boston"...22:08
tonyespyfollow the directions from "Back Bay"...22:08
amitkrobr_ubuntu: ping22:09
amitkrobr_ubuntu, jacob_p: Are the changes to psb _required_ for C0?22:10
=== Jay-home is now known as Jay-laptop
robramitk: no22:15
robramitk: as far as i know that is, as we've got no C0 hardware to test on22:16
amitkwe tried booting an lpia kernel on the C0. Kernel boots fine, but modprobe psb gives a garbled screen22:17
amitkrobr_ubuntu: ^^^22:19
robramitk: that's strange -- are you guys using the latest and greatest image-creator ?22:19
robrthat is, the one on moblin.org as opposed to the deb package in gutsy22:20
robrmoblin-image-creator on moblin.org will break on your kernel because the fsets are trying to pull in the new psb X driver which requires the new psb.ko driver22:21
amitkthis was using the gutsy M-I-c22:22
robramitk: do you know when that was pulled from moblin.org? 22:23
amitkrobr_ubuntu: Just wanted to confirm that there is no psb<-->C0 dependency.22:24
rob_moblinas far as we know, no22:24
amitkrobr_ubuntu: no idea. but it has to be atleast 3 weeks old22:24
rob_moblinthen you should be safe from the issue i was talking about22:25
rob_moblinwe've never tried the old psb driver on C0 hw as we don't have C0 hw22:25
HappyCamp_2rob_moblin: I am trying to build an image for the CB, what FSETs should I install22:27
HappyCamp_2rob_moblin: ??22:28
rob_moblinHappyCamp_2: moblin-crownbeach-full-mobile-stack-with-proprietary plus ubuntu-staging22:30
HappyCamp_2rob_moblin: what order?22:30
HappyCamp_2does it matter?22:30
rob_moblinHappyCamp, in that order22:31
HappyCamp_2k22:31
rob_moblinubuntu-staging should be last22:31
lucasrhi all22:34
HappyCamp_2rob_moblin: it booted :)22:51
rob_moblinHappyCamp_2, fantastic22:52
lucasrvuntz, ping23:09

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