[03:23] <Ahmuck> can i assume that feedback to ubuntu-devel@ubuntu.com can be directed here as well?
[03:25] <Fujitsu> Ahmuck: It's less likely to get lost on the mailing list, particularly as most of the developers are in Boston, either asleep or drunk. Or both.
[03:26] <Ahmuck> hah.  ubuntu release party ?
[03:26] <Fujitsu> Ubuntu Development Summit.
[03:30] <Ahmuck> ah
[03:30] <Ahmuck> developing a hangover?
[03:30] <Burgundavia> Ahmuck: what is your feedback?
[03:30] <LaserJock> a Hardy one ;-)
[03:31] <Ahmuck> heh
[03:31] <Burgundavia> there might be a better place to redirect your feedback
[03:32] <Ahmuck> oh, i was working on a ltsp installation on kubuntu via virtualbox ... wasn't getting it right.  it seems like there are tons of docs out for doing something, all of which are different.  getting lost in wrong or old docs is becomeing a chore
[03:32] <Burgundavia> that is a matter for the doucmentaiton
[03:32] <Burgundavia> team
[03:32] <Burgundavia> wow, I can spell
[03:33] <Burgundavia> the best thing to do is to simply fix the docs
[03:35] <Ahmuck> is there a reason there is not a universal package for ltsp?  it seems that there are two different versions, one for *buntu, and a pre-installed one for edubuntu
[03:38] <LaserJock> it's not really different versions
[03:38] <LaserJock> it's the same LTSP, but edubuntu does a lot more setup with it
[03:48] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: some of the docs say, "don't do this" or "do this for *buntu, but not on edubuntu", etc.  i have to wonder why edubuntu setup is turn key but kubuntu is not
[03:48] <Ahmuck> or ubuntu
[03:48] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: because Edubuntu is built as an LTSP server
[03:49] <LaserJock> however, in the future it looks like LTSP will become more of an Ubuntu Server thing
[03:51] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: there is a universal package for ltsp, Edubuntu just goes further currently because it's setup at install
[03:52]  * Ahmuck hopes for the future
[03:53] <LaserJock> well, it's still pretty easy
[04:07] <jsgotangco> yo LaserJock did you go to Boston?
[04:29] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: nope
[04:48] <pwnguin> Ahmuck: as far as I know the policy is basically if it didn't happen on the ML it's not official or something like that. as in, IRC is not a primary means of communication. anything worthwhile on IRC should be duplicated on the ML if you expect other developers to respond
[07:53] <jonmasters> sladen: I'm around a little over the next few days.
[08:20] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> anyone can tell me if i can r/w to hfs+ with gutsy?
[08:20] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> vfat sucks i need large file capability with my ipod
[08:21] <Hobbsee> [Gutsy]TuTUXG: /topic
[08:51] <RAOF> Hobbsee: The answer is "yes*", incidentally :)
[08:53] <Hobbsee> RAOF: ahh.  i thought it might be
[08:54] <RAOF> The * is: as long as you never, ever, fail to unmount it cleanly.
[08:54] <RAOF> At which point the kernel will refuse to mount it r/w until you've run fsck on it... and we don't have a hfs+ fsck.
[08:55] <Hobbsee> tasty.
[08:56] <ion_> Hehe
[08:56] <RAOF> You can hunt down some source from a gentoo wiki, but it's not 64bit safe.
[08:56] <imbrandon> RAOF, or just disable the journal in OSX and mount it with hfs not hfs+ :P
[08:56] <RAOF> imbrandon: hfs+ != hfs + journal, though?
[08:57] <imbrandon> yes
[08:57] <RAOF> imbrandon: Also, the kernel won't write to a journalled hfs+ filesystem at all.
[08:57] <imbrandon> same as ext2 vs ext3 , ext3 == ext2 + jornal
[09:00] <imbrandon> that and btw if you get fskck.hfs from darwin and compile it your much safer
[09:01] <imbrandon> fsck.hfsplus*
[09:01] <RAOF> That's where the one I used came from initially, IIRC.
[09:02] <imbrandon> works great here, i386 , x86 and ppc , not sure where you mhad problems
[09:02] <imbrandon> had*
[09:02] <imbrandon> x86_64*
[09:02] <imbrandon> gah i cant type
[09:02] <RAOF> imbrandon: HFS+ != journalled HFS, at least according to http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1150.html#HFSPlusBasics :P
[09:03] <RAOF> Hm.  It's been some time since I tried, anyway.
[09:03] <imbrandon> RAOF, yea but as far as our drivers are concerned it is, e.g. turn off the journal in OSX with the  disk utility and linux can read write it with hfs(-plus) just fine
[09:05] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.
[09:05] <RAOF> Until you need to fsck it... but maybe that works now :)
[12:13] <sladen> jonmasters: good good, no overflowing our convenicences
[12:18] <sladen> win 6
[12:18] <Keybuk> lose 12
[13:06] <zul> hey dendrobates
[13:32] <dendrobates> zul: hi
[13:59] <bddebian> Heya
[14:26] <bddebian> pitti: If you happen to come around and have time, I put a new clanbomber on mentors.  It's just a maintainer change to the Debian games team and added a desktop file:  http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/clanbomber
[14:26] <pitti> bddebian: any chance you could put a debdiff there?
[14:27] <bddebian> Hmm, I don't think I can put one on mentors but I'll stick one on my site
[14:28] <pitti> bddebian: or just pastebin it
[14:29] <bddebian> OK
[14:33] <pitti> bddebian: could you add me as an Uploader:?
[14:34] <dahitokiri> in LDD3 it says that i have to have the complete kernel sources and link against them when making device drivers but in ubuntu's package manager it says "If you are simply trying to build third-party modules for your kernel, you do not want this package. Install the appropriate linux-headers package instead." so which one is true?
[14:35] <bddebian> pitti: Of course, sorry, I meant to do that
[14:47] <bddebian> pitti: http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/clanbomber/clanbomb_7.debdiff  and a new upload is on mentors with you as an uploader.  Thanks again.
[14:49] <pitti> bddebian: looking
[14:49] <pitti> bddebian: looks fine to me, please upload
[14:50] <bddebian> pitti: If only I could :-)
[14:50] <persia> pitti: Please help :)  bddebian has been massively fixing games, but doesn't have the right keyring for Debian...
[14:51] <pitti> bddebian: ah, I see; I'll sponsor it then
[14:51] <bddebian> persia: Yeah, though I'm starting to wonder why I'm doing anything in games :-(
[14:51] <pitti> bddebian: you shold apply to become a DM
[14:51] <ScottK> bddebian: Makes it easier for you to have something to complain about.
[14:52] <bddebian> ScottK: Hah, now that's a good one at least ;-)
[14:52] <bddebian> pitti: I don't know much about DM's yet.  And I'm not exactly some of Debian favorite person ;-)
[14:53] <persia> bddebian: Stop trusting IRC.  Debian is primarily email communication.
[14:54] <bddebian> persia: Oh I get flamed on e-mail and Mailing Lists too ;-P
[14:58] <somerville32> Poor bddebian
[14:58] <bddebian> heh
[15:01] <ScottK> bddebian: Of course that easily gives you something else to whine about.
[15:03] <bddebian> Damn I can't even get any love here anymore :'-(
[15:03] <bryyce> pitti: if you have a moment, our xserver build is currently blocking on libpixman-1-dev which is not yet in main.  I've filled out a MIR for this and added to the queue - would you mind reviewing?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportPixman
[15:03] <bddebian> ;-P
[15:09]  * LaserJock hugs bddebian and runs away
[15:10] <bddebian> Heh, thx LaserJock ;-)
[15:16] <pitti> bddebian: uploaded clanbomber
[15:17] <bddebian> Sweet, thanks pitti
[15:46] <Riddell> bddebian: bug 145709 is ready for verification now
[15:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145709 in qt-x11-free "7.10: Qt3 /etc/qt3/qtrc owner root result in ugly appearance" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145709
[15:48] <bddebian> moi?
[15:48] <Riddell> well, I was expecting bdmurray
[15:48] <Riddell> but all help welcome :)
[15:51] <bddebian> heh
[15:58] <mathiaz> zul: are you dialed in for the virtualization session ?
[16:00] <zul> mathiaz: im listenting on the icecast im currently at work
[16:01] <mathiaz> zul: ok.
[16:01] <mathiaz> zul: if you wanna say something I can relay it for you.
[16:01] <zul> mathiaz: sure..
[16:04] <Mithrandir> StevenK: do you have svn snapshots of tinymail packaged?
[16:05] <Mithrandir> it seems modest needs a newer version.
[16:09] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Bugger. 0.0.3 was released, but I've not updated my packaging. I can do that if you like.
[16:11] <ogra__> keescook, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-content-server we have a session about the moodle stuff this evening, probably it would make sense if you could join for some mins to talk about the packaging layout so we can add that to the spec
[16:12] <keescook> ogra__: sure!  that sounds good.  there was some discussion earlier about common webserver packaging methods too.
[16:13] <ogra__> like replacing wwwconfig-common ?
[16:22] <mvo> Riddell: I uploaded a new compiz to hardy that should fix a lot of the crashes in kwd, I would be interessted feedback, if it is good, its definitely something for gutsy-updates
[16:23] <keescook> ogra__: well, fixing or replacing, yes.  mostly just evaluating the debian web packaging policy
[16:36] <Riddell> thanks mvo, I don't expect it'll get compiled any time soon though
[16:39] <mvo> Riddell: oh, ok
[16:40] <Riddell> although if you have n i386 .deb yourself I'm happy to test
[16:42] <StevenK> mvo: Where's my patch? :-P
[16:58] <mvo> Riddell: yes, I can do and upload it
[16:58] <mvo> StevenK: I can give you a compiz one ;) ?
[17:01] <StevenK> mvo: Hah
[17:06]  * StevenK fixes orbit.
[17:09] <thom> StevenK: higher or lower?
[17:12] <StevenK> thom: :-P
[17:12] <thom> well, with all this talk of burnout i'd hate to see you burn up instead
[17:12] <Mithrandir> StevenK: when you have the time, yes, please.  I'm slowly getting to the point where modest seems to compile.
[17:18] <StevenK> Mithrandir: libtinymail 0.0.3 building locally
[17:19] <Mithrandir> huzzah
[17:28] <StevenK> Come on, libtinymail.
[17:28] <StevenK> I forgot it took ~ 11 minutes to build.
[17:31] <StevenK> And it goes bang. Sigh.
[17:32] <Mithrandir> ccache++
[17:32] <StevenK> I see your ccache, and raise you the quad core machine John was talking about yesterday
[17:36] <Mithrandir> which one, the personal one I have in a rack or the quad dualcore opterons I have access to? :-P
[17:46] <StevenK> Mithrandir: libtinymail goes bang due to fun firefox things
[18:02] <Mithrandir> StevenK: huzzah.  Or something.  Does it build on gutsy?
[18:02] <StevenK> Mithrandir: And upstream has removed the hard libalarm dependancy in modest. \o/
[18:03] <Mithrandir> hurrah
[18:03] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Trying. libtinymail 0.0.3 under Gutsy
[18:05] <StevenK> s/\.//
[18:13] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Same failure on Gutsy
[18:14] <Mithrandir> StevenK: gnr.  If you could poke at it, that'd be appreciated, if not, just pass it along and I'll poke it.
[18:15] <StevenK> /usr/lib/firefox/libgtkembedmoz.so: undefined reference to `nsACString_internal::~nsACString_internal()'
[18:15] <StevenK> Mithrandir: It's whole bunch of stuff like that - my linking foo isn't good enough.
[18:15] <Mithrandir> ughkay.
[18:15] <Mithrandir> care to put what you have, somewhere?
[18:16] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Remember that modest URL?
[18:17] <Mithrandir> my shell does, at least.
[18:19] <Mithrandir> cheers
[18:47] <Riddell> cjwatson: desktop bof is wanting to know why partner isn't enabled by default
[18:50] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Speaking of buildds, can you bump the priority of the orbit 0.5.17-11.1ubuntu4 builds?
[18:52] <Mithrandir> I can
 cjwatson: desktop bof is wanting to know why partner isn't enabled by default
[19:08] <pwnguin> are the UDS icecasts down at the moment?
[19:09] <ScottK> Yes
[19:09] <ScottK> I think
[19:09] <pwnguin> doh
[19:09] <ScottK> pwnguin: --> #uds-boston
[19:09] <pwnguin> ty
[19:11] <StevenK> Mithrandir: orbit built on sparc and ppc at least. :-)
[19:12] <Mithrandir> asac: so, using midbrowser, is there any way to access installed extensions, like greasemonkey?
[19:13] <StevenK> Ah, you're missing greasemonkey ...
[19:14] <Mithrandir> yes
[19:14] <Mithrandir> which makes this ever so slightly painful
[19:15] <StevenK> Mithrandir: You could hit up pitti for his Python script
[19:15] <Mithrandir> StevenK: I could, but then I would have to find my ssh key
[19:16] <StevenK> Mithrandir: It screenscrapes Launchpad
[19:16] <Mithrandir> ugh
[19:16] <StevenK> I didn't say it was elegant. :-)
[19:22] <sladen> pwnguin: 19:21 <Ng > the icecast streams are back up
[19:24] <pwnguin> yes
[19:24] <pwnguin> i saw that
[19:37] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Did you poke at libtinymail?
[19:41] <Mithrandir> StevenK: yes.  It's simple enough to fix.
[19:42]  * StevenK hands Mithrandir a clue bat.
[19:42] <StevenK> Please, enlighten me.
[19:42] <Mithrandir> sr/bin/ld: warning: libxpcom_core.so, needed by /usr/lib/firefox/libgtkembedmoz.so, not found (try using -rpath or -rpath-link)
[19:43] <StevenK> Ah ha. That's the crux of the problem.
[19:43] <pitti> keescook: does the cups security issue affect 1.2.x as well?
[19:43] <Mithrandir> so either we need to fix firefox to set that, or we need to set ld_library_path or we need to use the xpcom linknig mechanism thingabob.
[19:43] <Mithrandir> (if the latter doesn't make sense to you, that's fine.  It's just Mozilla NIH)
[19:43] <StevenK> I don't know the last one.
[19:44] <keescook> pitti: yes, though I have so far been unable to reproduce the issue.
[19:44] <pitti> keescook: fun; but nice to see that my paranoia isn't unfounded at all
[19:44] <StevenK> Mithrandir: We could just hack in -L?
[19:44] <keescook> pitti: the updates are building right now.  Yeah.  and hplip was similar.  :(
[19:44] <pitti> keescook: except that we don't confine the latter because of sheer insanity of its architecture
[19:45] <keescook> pitti: true
[19:48] <Kmos> StevenK: can you get gimp 2.4.1 into gutsy? :)
[19:49] <seb128> Kmos: no new versions in stable
[19:51]  * ajmitch saw this discussion merely an hour ago
[19:51] <StevenK> I'd be amused, but he is the fourth person to ask me
[19:51] <pwnguin> heh
[19:51] <seb128> I've read several bugs and comment about it
[19:52] <StevenK> seb128: I think we need to tag team and take an Overfiend approach
[19:52] <ajmitch> love the cup
[19:52] <Nafallo> is there anything wrong with the current gimp? :-)
[19:52] <seb128> no
[19:52] <Kmos> seb128: ups :)
[19:53] <seb128> people just ask new version to get a new version
[19:53] <seb128> you would make no change or add like some crashers
[19:53] <seb128> they would ask for the update anyway ;-)
[19:53] <Nafallo> yea :-)
[19:53] <Nafallo> "but... the numbers look shiny..."
[19:54] <pwnguin> so what can we inferr about Ubuntu's perception of upstream release engineering if they'll run an RC but not a final?
[19:55] <seb128> pwnguin: there was nothing else available for gutsy
[19:55] <ScottK> pwnguin: You can infer that they don't change anything after release without a good reason.
[19:55] <StevenK> rc3 was out when we froze, and the final was out the day after we released. What can we do?
[19:55] <seb128> pwnguin: we can't delay because new versions will be available, there is always a project which will roll a new version soon
[19:55] <pwnguin> yikes
[19:56] <seb128> update might be possible
[19:56] <seb128> there is this SRU procedure, you can look at it
[19:56] <seb128> like debdiff, justifications of the changes and why we need them, testing, etc
[19:56] <pwnguin> StevenK: well, if you trusted upstream rel-eng, you'd deploy it ;)
[19:57] <seb128> everybody make mistakes
[19:57] <seb128> anyway reason gimp upstream would be special?
[19:57] <seb128> new stable versions sometime introduce regressions
[19:58] <pwnguin> well, in the universe of open source projects, they probably represent one of the better projects in terms of release engineering. whether that's anywhere near good enough, I doubt
[19:59] <pwnguin> im merely trying to point out that users have a different and probably incorrect theory on release engineering versus distro developers
[19:59] <Kmos> seb128: http://developer.gimp.org/NEWS-2.4 -> i only see these fixes.. it's mostly bugfixes from the current rc3
[20:02] <seb128> Kmos: bug fixes can also introduce regressions, did you read the changes carrefully, are those bugs we really care about and did users filed bugs about those?
[20:07] <Kmos> seb128: i didn't check that at LP.. but maybe the fixed crashs with scripts and plugins, rendering problems, and float numbers in script-fu are good ones to have the final version..
[20:07] <Kmos> an SRU
[20:08] <seb128> Kmos: there is a SRU procedure, what about reading it and opening a bug with the required details rather than comment on IRC?
[20:08] <seb128> Kmos: discussing that on IRC is not going to get you anything done most likely
[20:08] <Kmos> seb128: i was just commenting to know what developers think about it
[20:09] <seb128> Kmos: can't say before having the details required in the SRU bug
[20:09] <seb128> looks like a possible candidate
[20:09] <seb128> but we need to look at the diff, the bugs closed, etc
[20:09] <Kmos> yep
[20:09] <Kmos> :)
[20:16] <pwnguin> where does ubuntu draw the line on fonts?
[20:16] <StevenK> Mithrandir: I added -L/usr/lib/firefox, no effect
[20:19] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Next idea?
[20:23] <asac> Mithrandir: doesn't it appear in the tools menu?
[20:24] <Mithrandir> asac: no
[20:31] <Burgundavia> pwnguin: in what sense?
[20:31] <pwnguin> Burgundavia: license
[20:31] <Burgundavia> what is the context of the question
[20:32] <pwnguin> it would be really great if cellwriter used a handwritten style font instead of the default font
[20:32] <Burgundavia> ahh
[20:33] <pwnguin> but if I have to not only find a suitable font but convince the owner to liscense it under something they've never heard of or dont care for
[20:34] <Burgundavia> opl is a good one
[21:11] <asac> Mithrandir: you can open the greasemonkey manage user scripts dialog by opening chrome://greasemonkey/content/manage.xul
[21:11] <asac> (in url bar)
[21:12] <asac> Mithrandir: i will ask cwong to look into why it doesn't find its anchor point in the tools submenu
[21:52] <warsocket> oops
[21:52] <warsocket> didnt know i was allowed to do that
[22:06] <Hammerhead> Hi I was wondering how to go about offering a small script for a package.
[22:06] <Hammerhead> Firehol is missing the "try" option in the init script
[22:07] <ScottK> firehol is in Universe, so ask in #ubuntu-motu.  Someone there should be able to help you.
[22:12] <cavedon> hi all!
[22:12] <cavedon> for package wengophone, there is a new bugfixing-only new upstream release
[22:13] <cavedon> would it be an update or a backport?
[22:13] <cavedon> I mean , should it go to proposed-updates, or backports
[22:15] <somerville32> backports unless it meets the criteria for an SRU
[22:15] <somerville32> In that case, you'd only patch the stuff that meets the SRU criteria
[22:17] <cavedon> somerville32: tnx
[22:18] <somerville32> np
[23:36] <krawek> hi
[23:36] <krawek> gtusy supports squashfs?
[23:38] <crimsun_> krawek: yes
[23:40] <krawek> i'm trying to mount with -t squashfs but it says squashfs is unknown
[23:48] <crimsun_> krawek: install linux-ubuntu-modules-$(uname -r)
[23:50] <krawek> thanks crimsun_ =)