/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/11/02/#kubuntu-devel.txt

dasKreechimbrandon: Where is the part about windows having free licenes in Nigeria ?00:01
imbrandondasKreech, you'll have to search a bit, i dont have the link handy but the OS's were given free00:02
nixternaldidn't Microsoft create an XP that was stripped of things so they could sell it cheaper or give it away?00:03
imbrandonyes00:03
nixternalI wonder if that is what it is, if it is, then it makes the whole thing sting that much more00:03
nixternalbecause not only did they get windows, but they got a rather stripped down version00:03
nixternalthat UbuDSL looks sharp00:04
imbrandonXP for the Classmate and OLPC is $300:04
nixternalholy smokes00:05
imbrandonhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/04/20/microsoft-will-sell-3-software-to-developing-countries/00:05
nixternal4/20 :p00:05
imbrandonXP Starter Edition00:05
imbrandonhttp://www.microsoft.com/presspass/newsroom/winxp/WinXPStarter-material.mspx00:06
dasKreechimbrandon: starter editon is terrible00:18
dasKreechimbrandon: how do you know the build of the Debian KDE4 cd ?00:37
imbrandonhttp://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde4livecd.html00:37
dasKreechRight00:41
dasKreechis it a daily?00:41
dasKreechOh never mind it says Beta400:42
dasKreechsorry00:42
nosrednaekimits out? beta4?00:42
Riddellssh00:44
jjessessh what?00:45
imbrandonssh about beta4 i assume00:50
seelessh as in secret00:50
Jucatohi imbrandon! hi seele!00:51
seelehallo00:52
imbrandonheya00:53
Jucatoseele: what do you use for wireframing? visio? dia? kivio? :D00:55
seeleJucato: visio00:56
Jucatoah ok. thanks :)00:56
Jucato(they look purty...)00:56
seeleah, thanks :)00:57
dasKreechhi Jucato01:02
Jucatohi dasKreech01:02
* Jucato wonders if either dia or kivio have stencil sets for GUI widgets...01:03
seeleeven if they did, theyre uh.. "difficult" to use01:04
Jucatoheheh :)01:04
* Jucato doesn't have visio to know how easy it is to use... :(01:05
Jucatoseele: have you heard of this software? http://www.axure.com/home.aspx01:07
seeleJucato: yeah, i have it01:07
Jucatowow :)01:07
seelealthough i dont like it for wireframing or IA work01:07
seelevisio is still much better01:07
seelebut for interface prototyping it is very nice01:07
JucatoI've been looking for a comparable FOSS or even freeware alternative. the UI prototyping feature seems to be very nice01:09
seeleyeah, but its .NET3 so i cant run it in wine01:09
dasKreechYet01:10
Jucatoaw... silly .NET :(01:10
dasKreechWhat about Mono?01:10
imbrandonmono only supports .net 2 thus far01:10
seeleyeah01:10
imbrandonshouldnt be long though, the mono team is pretty speedy01:11
dasKreechI know are they moving towards 3 yet?01:11
imbrandon6 months or a year i would bet01:11
Jucatoat adapting MS technology? :)01:11
Jucatooh well... an interactive slideshow would probably work as well :)01:11
imbrandonJucato, yea mono is fairly open01:12
imbrandonerr .net01:12
* Jucato read somewhere that MS will "open" .NET source, with NDA's of course...01:12
imbrandonJucato, the specs are already open, no real need for source01:13
imbrandonits an ecma standard01:13
Jucatoah01:14
Jucatoecma.... isn't ooxml an ecma standard too?01:14
imbrandonno01:14
imbrandonnot iirc01:14
imbrandonhttp://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm is c# there are others that pertain to it too01:14
Jucatohttp://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-376.htm OOXML is :/01:15
imbrandonbut its incomplete01:16
imbrandonyou cant implment all things01:16
Ahmuckmake your own stencil set?01:43
Jucatoprolly... if I get enough motivation to do it :D01:43
dasKreechEmotioanl motivation?01:53
Jucato*motivation01:54
dasKreechI01:58
dasKreech'll buy you a pizza :)01:58
jjessehello Jucato02:01
Jucatoevening jjesse!02:01
jjessecan you buy me a pizzza?02:01
JucatodasKreech: had that the other day. we're going out to buy chinese probably :)02:01
Jucatomom's bday :)02:01
dasKreechyou want a pizza with sleeping powder? Sure :)02:01
Jucatogun powder on mine02:02
nixternalJucato: Ken said real soon!02:06
nixternalthink green02:06
* nosrednaekim is a greenie02:06
nixternalno environmental friendly green :)02:06
imbrandongPC green? /me hides from nixternal02:09
nixternalE is pretty cool02:10
nixternalbut gOS keeps crashing on my desktop02:10
dasKreechWhat's the next macOS?02:10
nixternalI haven't messed with E in a long time02:10
jjessethat's because you didn't buy it at walmart02:10
imbrandondasKreech, 10.5.1 ?02:10
nixternalI don't shop at Wal-Mart!02:10
dasKreechHa ha :)02:10
dasKreechWhat's the cycle they are on now? 18 months?02:10
imbrandonosx? they dont have a predetremind cycle02:11
imbrandon"when its ready"02:11
nosrednaekimnixternal: you got  gOS?02:11
dasKreechKDE 4.2 might go up against it02:11
nixternalya02:11
nixternalit took forever and a day to download02:12
dasKreechWould be nice to have a Kubuntu vs commerical OS showdown :)02:12
imbrandonwhy on earth?02:12
nixternalno doubt02:13
nosrednaekimnixternal: its just E17 right?02:13
imbrandonsides Kubuntu falls under a "Commercial OS" too, canonical provides support :P02:13
nixternalthat is like comparing plastic surgeons02:13
nixternalnosrednaekim: ya02:13
nixternallast time I messed with E was many years ago02:13
nosrednaekimI tried it on fiesty... I didn't really like it.. but its FAST!02:14
nixternalya, our packages for E sucks...there is some dude with an E repo that has good stuff02:14
jjessewhat is E ?02:14
nixternalEnlightenment02:14
imbrandonEnlightenment DE02:14
nixternalactually, the guy who has them used to hang out here02:14
nosrednaekimnixternal: I got it from somewhere else, forget where02:14
nixternalhe has the Mandriva repos too02:15
nixternalHawkwind?02:15
nixternalsomething like that02:15
imbrandonyea02:15
nixternalya, his packages are good, they don't crash out all of the time02:15
nosrednaekimyeah... hawkwind... they were good packages02:16
dasKreechnixternal: hawkwind?02:17
nixternalya02:17
nixternalhe was here last year hanging out02:17
dasKreechnixternal: you have any idea how many times a month I have to answer the query. Do i have to remember commands when I install Linux?02:18
dasKreechI know I miss him :(02:18
dasKreechhe logged in not too long ago too02:18
dasKreechhung out for 15 then gone again02:18
nixternalheh02:19
dasKreechnixternal: the rhetorical question was in your response to Why would I want a showdown02:20
nixternalfind someone to do an unbiased showdown, then you are good02:20
nixternalotherwise, it will be worthless02:20
nixternaland honestly, I don't know of a single media outlet that could do an unbiased report02:20
dasKreechnixternal: how about the suckers who got 17,000 Windows starter editions?02:21
nixternalI will leave that one alone02:21
nixternalI would love to know more about that entire story though02:23
dasKreechYeah but I'll let the chairheaver and the frenchie battle it out02:24
nixternaloh wow02:25
dasKreechSo all three OSes are roughly reaching the point where they are starting to mature02:25
dasKreechv02:26
dasKreechhttp://media.arstechnica.com/video/leopard-intro.mov02:26
dasKreechSweet02:26
dasKreechWe don't have intro stuff at all why?02:27
jjessedid hobbssee sign on tonight or did we scare her away last night?02:28
nixternalI doubt anyone scared hobbsee away02:28
nosrednaekimE|:-}>02:29
dasKreechWhoops02:30
jjesseis it bad that i'm triaging bugs from one user02:57
Riddellno, we love you for it03:01
jjessethere's like 40 bugs  from the same user that are in ALL CAPS IN THE TITLE WHICH MAKE THEM MORE IMPORTANT TO TRIAGE03:22
ScottKjjesse: bug --> Invalid due to excessive rudeness.03:29
jjessethe guy creates a new bug about the same subject like every month cause no one has helped him out03:30
* jjesse grumbles and reaches for the Point Stick of Death03:30
ScottKjjesse: Just tell him all the smart people are on the forums.  He should ask there.03:49
jjesselol03:49
jjesseseriously this is the 3rd set of bugs i've cleaned upd duplicates on03:49
ScottKjjesse: Hang in there.  It's important work you are doing.03:50
jjessecan we ban people from reporting bugs :)03:50
jjessei love this bug: bug # 14783303:51
jjessebug 14783303:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 147833 in kdebase "konqueror crash when closed it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14783303:52
ScottKjjesse: Crash on close is a legit, but low priority issue.03:52
jjesseScottK: it just strikes me as funny03:53
jjesseor something crashed for no apparent reason03:53
ugait possibly means resources are being doubly cleaned or so03:54
dasKreechI have a pretty large number of apps that crash on close03:54
dasKreechanyone have a clue how they would preserver your /home dir on a format?04:01
jjessesetup /home in a different parition and don't format that drive04:02
dasKreechYeah there is a sepc for hardy that seems to do away with that04:04
dasKreechLet me read it some more :)04:04
Jucatonixternal: what's real soon?05:01
nixternalthis week05:01
nixternalthe build is done05:01
Jucatokde4?05:02
* Jucato is confused. just got back :)05:02
dasKreechIf I want a calendaring/contact sharing server05:02
dasKreech Hula?05:02
* Jucato misses Hawkwind...05:20
Jucatoif E only had even 3/4 of KDE's awesome features, I probably wouldn't even be here :)05:21
Jucato(reacting to gOS, dasKreech-style)05:21
dasKreechoh reading huge backlogs and making comments?05:22
Jucatoyeah... but I kinda missed the part about replying 6+ hours after the factg05:23
Jucatofact*05:23
nixternalOK, bed time05:36
nixternalk'nite :)05:36
Jucatoknight nixternal!05:36
=== mjk is now known as genii
amachuRiddell: hi08:31
mhbamachu: he's at the UDS, so he's unlikely to respond (according to the web it's 4:30 there)08:32
mhbI mean respond at this time, of course.08:32
amachuRiddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kid3/+bug/15944108:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 159441 in kid3 "Merge kid3 0.9-4 from debian unstable " [Undecided,Confirmed]08:32
amachumhb: ok08:33
mhbhi folks09:52
mhbumm, we just have 2 kubuntu-* tasks to do for Hardy? Catchup and KDE4?09:53
mhbI know it may be all we can manage at this point, but I'd expect more stuff to be discussed :o)09:53
Hobbseewell, they're kinda big :)09:55
Hobbseei suspect the rest is encompassed in kde4, actually09:55
jpatrickhello Sereg10:49
SeregHi, guys10:49
jpatrickSereg: what would you like to help out with?10:50
SeregI'm experienced C++ developer and love Qt/KDE10:50
SeregAlso I have some basic skills in Python10:50
jpatricksee: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu10:50
Seregyes, I'we already joined the mailing list10:51
Seregbut cannot pick any task myself10:51
SeregI heard something about needed software for flash drive formatting...10:51
mhbSereg: what we're aiming at this cycle -> porting our apps for KDE4 and catching up with Ubuntu10:52
mhbthose are our tasks, of course, you're free to choose what you like yourself10:52
Seregmmm... is there some tracking system of needed/done issues?10:52
SeregIt is my first time in community development, so please describe me how do you do that (if you have some time to spare :) )10:54
jpatrickSereg: well, the catchup plans are at: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup10:55
jpatrickSereg: prehaps you could look into the Codec install thing? (looking around at how Amarok does it might help)10:57
SeregIt would be great for me!10:57
Sereghow to assign myself to this task?10:57
jpatrickSereg: just work away at it :)10:58
Seregmm... there is no sync between developers? what if someone already does it?10:58
HobbseeSereg: saying that you're doing it, on our mailing list, would be a good idea10:58
Hobbseepeople tend to know what each other are doing, as there are so few people10:59
Seregoh, right :)10:59
Seregthanks10:59
mhbSereg: of course, you can always help out with KDE4 (at www.kde.org) if you prefer application devel10:59
Seregso I need to install kdelibs-dev and go on10:59
* Hobbsee tries to remember what dh_icons actually does.11:00
jpatrickkdelibs4-dev11:00
Seregmhb: I have not so many experience in KDE development for this yet11:00
jpatrickSereg: neither do I, but I'm doing my best :)11:00
Seregjpatrick: and where can I get sources of kaffeine for KDE4?11:00
Sereg=)11:01
mhbSereg: I ask that myself a lot of times11:01
jpatrickSereg: it'd be better if you patched the KDE3 Kaffeine, cos that's the one going into the final release11:01
mhbSereg: they aren't really available yet, we need to fix KDE3 Kaffeine11:01
Seregaha...11:01
mhbSereg: the KDE4 patch will be very similar11:02
Seregthat's cool11:02
jpatrickSereg: KDE4 will be too unstable for long term support11:02
jpatrickSereg: so, 'apt-get source kaffeine' is your friend11:02
Seregand how abount distro alpha's and beta's? should I preserve some disk space to install them in future?11:03
Seregis it required?11:03
mhbSereg: not really, because kaffeine won't change11:04
jpatrickerr, I think that's the guinea pigs job11:04
Sereg:)11:04
jpatrickSereg: how amarok does it: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=54563811:04
Seregquite cute solution11:06
jpatrickmhb: do you know how I can edit the layout of compiz-kde-guidance so the buttons don't shrink? ( http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=we4ym6.png )11:06
Seregthank you, guys, for such warm meeting! I hope to be useful11:07
mhbjpatrick: change the height of them to be Maximum or Fixed, I guess11:08
jpatrickmhb: it didn't like that11:08
mhbno?11:09
jpatrickI'll poke around with it for a while11:09
jpatrickSereg: most people here are busy / sleep / something, so things take some time11:10
Seregthere was no any sarcasm, no11:11
Seregmaybe it's my mistake, in my country "warm meeting" is synonimous to "very nice, friendly mmeting"11:12
HobbseeSereg: basically, there are different things to work on.  coding an app / fixing bugs is different to doing distro testing, for eg11:12
Hobbseeso youc an do one and not the other11:12
SeregI like the idea to add codec autoinstallation to kaffeine11:14
mhbjpatrick: I can try it, just commit your changes so you don't have to merge11:15
jpatrickmhb: I'm pkg something right now, I'll work on desktop-kde a few moments later11:16
mhbokay, I'll try to do that by myslef11:19
mhbSereg: are you familiar with Qt/KDE?11:19
mhbSereg: development, that is11:19
jpatrickhe said he loved it :)11:20
mhboh did he?11:21
* mhb must have misheard, sorry11:21
jpatrickin #kubuntu that is11:22
=== sebas_ is now known as sebas
Seregjpatrick: yes, I'm familiar with Qt (especially with Qt4) and have little experience of KDE3 application development11:24
Seregyes, I love Qt =)11:25
SeregI wonder why GNOME based distro is a mainstream of Ubuntu. I think that KDE applications are much more usable that GNOME analogs11:26
sebasMark says: "Because KDE does not have a fixed release cycle, and KDE's UIs were too messy in the past"11:26
sebasRecent interview on lxer.com :)11:26
Sereg:(11:27
Jucatothere doesn't seem to be a KDE4 port of Kaffeine yet11:27
Jucatosebas: how recent? as in days recent?11:27
sebashttp://www.abclinuxu.cz/clanky/rozhovory/mark-shuttleworth?page=111:27
Jucatooh, and hi sebas, Hobbsee, mhb, jpatrick11:27
SeregI think I'll be able to port Kafefine to KDE4 after my current task.11:27
Hobbseehiya Jucato11:27
jpatrickhi Jucato11:28
sebasSereg: Rather do codeine, it's got a much cooler UI :-)11:28
Seregor something else is planned to default video player in kubuntu Hardy?11:28
Jucatos/cooler/simpler/ but I agree :)11:28
jpatrickkaffeine's the one (I think)11:28
JucatoSereg: still kaffeine....11:28
Jucatobut Hardy will not have KDE 4.0 by default11:28
Sereg:-Â11:28
Sereg:-D11:29
Seregwow...11:29
Jucatowe can't11:29
SeregThis makes sense11:29
Jucatolongish interview... thanks sebas11:29
jpatrickwe'll freakout porting everything to kde4 hardy+1 cycle11:29
JucatoSereg: by virtue of Hardy being an LTS release, we can't have KDE 4.0 yet11:29
SeregKDE4 will be released only in December, and I don't believe in full stability11:30
Jucatobut there will be Gutsy-based KDE 4 Live CD's11:30
Jucatobut as early as now, we do need to plan already :)11:30
jpatrickJucato: let's have a meeting :)11:31
SeregJucato: so I can also make some pretty fixes of d3lphin?!11:31
* Jucato points to the one with the long pointy stick11:31
* Jucato would rather that the fix be rm -rf d3lphin... but that's personal11:31
JucatoSereg: I'm afraid that we would have to take the burden of actually fixing d3lphin. I've e-mailed the upstream maintainer almost 2 months ago, regarding the patch that I made. no reply11:32
SeregJucato: +1, korqueror rulezz11:32
Sereg:(11:33
Seregbad11:33
Jucatodunno. maybe real life took over... it always does...11:33
Seregd3lphin has ugly flickering on moving cursor over several long-named files11:33
Jucatoalthough I'd have to say, d3lphin's huring dolphin's image a lot.. :(11:33
Jucatowe really only have 2 approved specs for Hardy? :/11:35
Jucatoany other unapproved specs?11:35
mhbhow come you people dislike Dolphin(3) too much?11:36
mhbI find it perfectly usable personally11:36
Jucato:)11:37
mhband I use Dolphin4, too - they are comparable when it comes to features I use11:37
Seregmhb: IMHO, It is too raw for default kubuntu's file manager11:37
Jucatod3lphin? comparable to dolphin? :/11:37
Jucatooh well... dinner11:37
=== Sereg is now known as Serega
mhbSereg: really? The only complaint I have is that nobody really imported the translations11:38
mhbotherwise it seems quite usable11:38
Seregamhb: maybe, it speaks my habit to konqueror's behahior :)11:39
mhbSerega: well enjoy konqueror while it lasts11:40
Seregaanyway, I like the idea about two side panels11:40
Seregathe main issue I disliked is filckering :-\11:41
mhbbecause the time will come when a new, faster KDE Web Browser arrives, and people will love it, and since they're happy with Dolphin, many distros will dump Konqueror to oblivion11:41
mhbalthough all top kde devs claim that Konqueror will still be a filemanager it used to be, it will progressively be "the same" like Keramika or some other theme nobody really uses anymore11:43
SeregaI thought that konqueror web browser is nothing but KHTML engine wrapped into the complete application11:43
sebasNo, it's much more.11:44
sebasbookmarks, kwallet, KJS, KIO, KSSL to only name a few things that it needs integration with.11:44
Serega yes, I missed11:45
mhbmy opinion - if we have Dolphin - The usable (and pretty fast) filemanager for KDE, how long does it take before somebody comes with an idea of KFoo - The Usable (and pretty fast - faster than Konq) Web Browser?11:46
jpatrickoh, what a dull name11:47
mhbjpatrick: hehe, just the classic name substitute (foo-bar)11:47
Seregakonq has one big flaw for me - it doesn't show the page until all the pictures are loaded :(11:47
jpatrickmhb: and a classic quote from the HHGttG :)11:48
mhbjpatrick: it's older than that11:50
mhbSerega: yeah, I somehow find Konq slower than Firefox subjectively11:50
Seregadoes anybody know smth about gutsy and laptop keys? Guys from launchpad have figured out that it's 2.6.22 kernel problem :(11:53
jpatrickbless them11:54
mhbwhat laptop keys?11:55
mhbvolume down/up?11:55
Seregaaha...11:55
Seregaand brightness, etc...11:55
Seregathat was bad surprise after feisty->gutsy upgrade11:56
Jucatomhb: you should spend time in #kubuntu or kubuntuforums.net... get to hear user comments12:17
* jpatrick hasn't been to the forums in a while12:19
Jucato:)12:20
mhbJucato: those channel are designed for complaining :o)12:20
mhbchannels12:20
jpatrickJucato: anything new over there?12:20
Jucatoperfect excuse :)12:20
mhbif they want to comment so loud it reaches me, make sure they file bugs12:21
Jucatogreat idea. We'd rather flood ourselves with duplicate bugs filled with complaints, rather than limiting them to a place where it's more conducive for them, and less hassle for us to filter :)12:22
mhbJucato: no, let them complain in the places they should, like the channels12:22
Jucatojpatrick: nothing much. although I've noticed we have much more traffic now than when I started there :)12:22
Jucatoit's not too overloaded, but not dead either12:22
mhbbut if they want to change anything, they better show their arguments, not complains12:23
Jucatowe're going in circles.12:24
Jucatonvm12:24
mhbif they prefer Konqueror, then they should be lucky, because their app is on the CD by default12:24
jpatrickmhb: put koffice on the cd and I'll be happy :)12:24
mhbjpatrick: yeah, or perhaps putting KDE3libs and KDE4libs side to side, so that the transition can be smooth12:25
jpatrickmhb: I thought kdelib3 was long gone12:25
jpatrickbut I know what you mean?12:26
Jucatokde3libs = KDE 3 libs :)12:26
Jucato:P12:26
jpatrickmean.*12:26
Jucatowe will have to anyway. transition or not. there will be some apps that haven't been ported yet to KDE 4 by that time anyway12:26
mhbkdelibs3 is some KDE2 libs according to that weird Debian naming, right?12:26
Jucatoyes12:26
mhbthat's why I said KDE3libs, like KDE3 libraries12:26
mhb<offtopic> I found my new favourite English word! It's the kibibit!</offtopic>12:28
mhbJucato: I'm afraid we would need some serious compression in order to achieve that12:31
Jucatomhb: unfortunately... unless of course we just not ship any KDE 3 app... like Konversation... in case it hasn't been ported yet12:31
mhband even a simple KDE4 CD would take more space than the KDE3, at least I think so12:31
mhbkdelibs/kdebase seem to be a lot bigger now with KDE412:33
Jucatoit is?12:33
mhbI haven't done any precise measurements, though12:33
seelemhb: i thought it got significantly smaller12:33
seeleand they added stuff?12:34
Jucatodon't base it from our kde4 packages though. those have been built with fulldebug afaik12:34
Jucatodon't base the size I mean12:34
mhbseele: really? I made estimates by the kubuntu kde4 packages, perhaps the nodebug versions of them will be smaller12:35
mhbJucato: ^^12:35
mhbit was just an estimate ... I really hope I'm wrong here :o)12:35
mhbof course, my experience with software development is that expecting that the next version will be faster or smaller is really absurd :o)12:35
Jucatobut not impossible or improbable12:36
Serega+112:36
Jucatofor one, afaik, some classes have been dropped because they have been implemented in Qt 4 already12:36
Jucatocan't say w/c though12:36
mhbJucato: okay, name one piece of often-used software that actually gets faster with each release12:36
JucatoKDE?12:37
Seregakernel?12:37
Serega:)12:37
Jucatokubuntu?12:37
Jucatoupstart?12:37
mhbJucato: Kubuntu is slower12:37
Jucatogutsy maybe.. but Dapper -> Edgy -> Feisty definitely had speed increases imho12:37
SeregaI found much more responsiveness from gutsy12:37
mhbJucato: I published some measurements some time back12:37
Jucatothen I have no defense against that :)12:38
Jucatosome people don't have the benefit of technical know-how in proper benchmarking to really see the difference. we can only measure with our senses12:38
mhbJucato: hmm, perhaps I didn't12:39
Serega...as an generic user12:39
Serega*a12:39
mhbI know Edgy was really faster than Dapper, then it declined, I had some numbers, but it seems I published other12:39
seelemhb: i remember the devs making a big deal about it after kde4 because most of the week was spent rennovating the core libs12:39
seelebut there is a lot of new stuff, it maybe the end result really is larger12:40
Seregatrolltech also promised a speed increase in Qt412:40
Seregaas I remember12:40
mhbSerega: everyone promises that, don't they?12:40
Serega:-D12:41
Jucatoseele: probably more stuff has been added to kdebase than kdelibs...12:41
mhbMicrosoft promised that Vista will be faster than XP, and it may be so on machines with 2GB of RAM and 64bit CPUs :o)12:41
mhbseele: hmm, well I hope I'm wrong.12:42
Jucatobut that's MS... doesn't KDE deserve a bit more trust than that? even just a teeny weeny bit?12:43
mhbJucato: that is software development in general.12:43
SeregaVista has a lots of DRM/UAC/etc related shit12:44
mhbJucato: there were word processing tools before Microsoft arrived, yet still, word processing never got faster12:44
JucatoI'm not yet a software developer, so I won't argue12:44
mhbJucato: besides, we would need to have a bunch of testers dedicated to speed testing in order to change anything12:45
Seregaoohh... we've ported our app to vista... I had to break our architecture to accomodate vista changes :(((12:45
mhband I doubt we have people like that, stopwatch in one hand, mouse in the other12:45
* mhb wonders if Jucato could convince the #komplainers to do that12:46
jpatrickmhb: #kubuntu-testers ? ;)12:46
JucatoI doubt they'd be interested if they knew their feedback fell on deaf ears12:47
jpatricklunch ->12:47
Seregamhb: I believe, that speed itself does matter very rarely (e.g. when user encodes video). User feel how the system responds to his actions, how quickly a menu drops down, etc12:47
mhbJucato: Look, we provide Konqueror on the default CD. That is more than we do for many other apps users crave for. What more can we do?12:48
mhbIs it really that hard for users to change their filemanager?12:48
mhbSerega: when I usually say "speed" I mean bootup time, that is really important IMHO.12:48
mhbSerega: whether Amarok will load 1 or 1,5 seconds not that much.12:49
dasKreechmhb: It's not hard just non obvious12:49
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
Seregamhb: agree12:51
mhbhmm, I remember ryanakca or someone wanted to have a "filemanager" option in the systemsettings "Default applications"12:51
Sereganice idea12:51
mhbJucato: ^^ you can look into that, you know :o) practice is the best way of learning12:51
jjesseevening Jucato12:53
Jucatogood morning jjesse12:55
Jucatomhb: sorry. lost interest12:56
mhbJucato: what?12:56
Jucato <mhb> Jucato: ^^ you can look into that, you know :o) practice is the best way of learning12:56
mhbhmm12:57
mhbokay.12:57
mhbI'll ask that question every time you say something negative about Dolphin :o)12:58
Seregamhb: do you make CD/DVD images?12:58
Seregamhb: and what relation do you have to dolphin?) just interesting12:59
mhbSerega: we as in Kubuntu? The Kubuntu CDs are created by the Launchpad build system, we currently don't do any custom CDs - but we want to create a KDE4 CD in this cycle.12:59
SeregaI'm a newbie here, and dunno roles in team13:00
Jucatomhb: 1. I didn't complain about the dolphin vs. konqueror thing. I specifically singled out d3lphin. 2. I was just expressing my very personal opinion and 3. that wasn't my point later on anymore13:00
Seregaooh...13:00
Seregawow)13:00
Jucatoand 4, I already have this13:00
Jucato!d3lphin13:00
ubotuDolphin, or more properly D3lphin, is the new default file manager for Kubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon. If you would like to make Konqueror your default file manager again, go to Konqueror - Settings menu - Configure Konqueror - File Associations and change the association for inode/directory and inode/system_directory to Konqueror at the top rather than Dolphin.13:00
* Riddell high fives Serega 13:01
mhbSerega: and on roles - we're a community, so in theory, everyone is equal :o) except our dearest Jonathan Riddell, who's a paid developer by Canonical, but I'm sure you've heard that13:02
Seregammm... what is this mean? :) ([15:01] Riddell high fives Serega )13:03
mhba greeting13:03
SeregaThanks!13:03
mhbhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Five13:03
* Serega bows13:03
dasKreechmhb: Wow that's sick13:03
mhbdasKreech: err?13:04
mhbdasKreech: I beg your pardon?13:04
dasKreechThey have a encyclopedia definition of high Five13:04
* Jucato is not really a coder.... more like a contributor who just likes to poke people, bring up certain issues from users, and (try to) annoy real developers like mhb... so take me with a pinch of salt13:04
mhbJucato: I hope I haven't annoyed you much or that i don't sound very annoyed :o)13:05
Seregahave you all registered here, guys? I worry, that I can casually occupy someone's nickname :-S13:05
Jucatobetter register your nick asap :)13:06
Jucato!register | Serega13:06
ubotuSerega: Information about registering your Freenode nick is at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#contents-userregistration13:06
Jucatothe nicks are per server anyway.. not per channel/project13:07
Serega!register | Serega13:07
Jucatoer... no. ! is how you trigger the bot13:08
Jucatoyou can pipe or redirect the bot's factoid to a nick :)13:08
dasKreech!hello13:09
ubotuHi! Welcome to #kubuntu-devel!13:09
Serega!help13:10
ubotuI am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots13:10
Serega:-D all-knowing13:10
Serega"browse my brain"13:10
Seregaawesome :)13:10
dasKreech!windows13:10
ubotuFor help with Microsoft Windows, please visit ##windows or your nearest mental health institute. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and !equivalents13:11
Serega(ROFL)13:11
Seregaugh... please stop, I can't laugh anymore)))13:11
Jucato!botsnack13:12
ubotuYum! Err, I mean, APT!13:12
Seregabtw, I'm translating LNW to Russian13:12
Sereganice doc13:12
Serega!ubotu13:12
ubotuI am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots13:12
Jucato!botabuse | Serega, there's also this thoug:13:13
ubotuSerega, there's also this thoug:: Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (type also /msg ubotu Bot). Also avoid adding joke/useless factoids. Abusing the channel bots will only result in angry ops...13:13
Jucato:D13:13
mhbRiddell: good luck at the KDE4 session!13:13
Seregaok, sorry :)13:14
dasKreech!nixternal13:14
ubotuOh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!13:14
* dasKreech whistles13:14
dasKreechhi nixternal  :-)13:14
* dasKreech loves MSN13:17
dasKreechIt's generous when being used by spambots13:17
ugadasKreech: MS stuff... generous? really?13:19
dasKreechWith spam13:20
dasKreech yeah!13:20
dasKreechHobbsee: !!13:20
Jucatowb Hobbsee13:21
mhbsee you later, and to the UDSers out ther - enjoy the KDE4 session!13:27
dasKreechOk work time13:39
jpatrickya, me too13:40
* dasKreech nominates Pingus as one of the face games for Linux13:41
Hobbseeyay, pingus :)13:41
Hobbseekibi's working on it13:41
dasKreechNew one came out yesterday13:41
dasKreechLooks really good13:41
Seregapretty nice13:42
* Serega is launching supertux13:42
dasKreechalso really good13:43
dasKreechTill I beat the last level13:43
dasKreechvery very frustrating13:43
Seregawhere to get a bunch of designers to upgrade the artowork of all linux games...13:43
* tobias_ wants the new freeciv:-)13:43
Serega*artwork13:44
dasKreechNew freeciv just came out too13:44
dasKreechI miss the old freeciv :-(13:44
dasKreechSerega: all?13:44
SeregaI miss civilization 1 gui13:44
SeregadasKreech: best13:44
dasKreechSerega: grab Freeciv :)13:44
dasKreechSerega: the gametome has a GOTM project that does just that13:45
jpatrickmhb: it's funny, all I do is break layout, add an apply button, and redo, and all icons and button are shrunk13:45
dasKreechjump in and help13:45
Seregasuch as supertux, stratagus...13:45
dasKreechSerega: Supertux already ahd the graphics upgraded13:45
Seregalet's leave the games, I think it is a wrong place to talk about them13:45
dasKreech!games13:46
ubotuInformation about games on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Games and http://www.icculus.org/lgfaq/gamelist.php13:46
* dasKreech goes *poof*13:50
=== phnomet is now known as phnom
nixternalmornin'14:37
Jucatohi nixternal14:46
Jucato(sorry late)14:46
jjessemorning nixternal14:51
Riddelljjesse: hmm, I notice we have kubuntu-​gutsy-​plus-​one-​adept scheduled now14:51
RiddellI'm not sure there's much to discuss14:51
Riddellor indeed anything14:52
jjesseRiddell: ok14:53
jjesseso that is any easy converstation14:53
jjesseespecailly since no one subscribed to the spec14:54
* Jucato waves to jjesse and Riddell14:54
Riddellhola jjesse14:55
Riddelltsk14:55
Riddellhola Jucato14:55
Riddellnow if Serega is looking for fun c++ bits to do, he may well find them in kubuntu-gutsy-plus-one-adept14:55
JucatoI saw an Add/Remove Improvement blueprint earlier, but no wiki for it. is that going to push through? if it is, does that mean we'll have to update Adept Installer as well?14:56
RiddellJucato: I'm not sure if anything came out of that14:56
Jucatohehe I thought so... non-existing wiki page is not a good sign of spec health :)14:57
Luremhb: ping15:02
SeregaI'm here15:17
SeregaRiddell: what kind of changes do we need in  kubuntu-gutsy-plus-one-adept?15:17
yuriyreally nothing to discuss for hardy adept?15:18
Jucatoprobably it will all depend again on whether Ubuntu will switch to PackageKit...15:18
yuriybut, for starters, a few details to consider: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adept/+bug/8242815:18
ubotuLaunchpad bug 82428 in adept "adept details view usability" [Wishlist,Confirmed]15:18
yuriyalso, DL speed/ETA would be nice15:19
SeregaI'm disagree with some issues15:20
Serega"Installed files" is useful, when I want to look what files WILL BE installed15:20
JucatoSerega: unfortunately, APT doesn't provide that info15:20
Seregaoops15:21
Jucatoat least not directly (I think apt-file does)15:21
SeregaI'm not so familiar with APT :(15:21
Jucato:)15:21
Jucatoalthough removing the tab when the package is installed and adding it when it's installed.. might not be good usability either. I think disabling the tab is better15:21
Jucato(+graying out)15:22
Seregamaybe there is no way to know file list util .deb is downloaded15:22
Jucatounless it's actually installed. afaik15:22
Seregadownloaded as minimum, or we cannot look inside .deb?15:23
yuriyanyways, point being, there are certainly things that be reasonably improved in adept if someone is willing to hack on it15:23
yuriya spec could be something along the lines of fix these bugs: ...15:23
SeregaI willing to do anything useful :)15:23
JucatoI'm planning to triage all open adept bugs (next week)... let's see what I can come up with15:23
Jucatoin terms of making a summary that is... :P15:24
Serega*I am15:24
yuriyJucato: adept was just the only thing we got through last march, but I'm sure there's plenty of new stuff since then15:24
yuriys/last/back in15:25
* Jucato was planning Adept + System Settings...15:25
Jucatobut I'm just going to triage and forward notes and suggestions to manchicken... not sure if I can fix some15:25
* Jucato thinks the bug reporter has even worse usability recommendations... :P15:26
yuriyJucato: i'm talking about triaging, as in the bugs that were left open at that point were all actual bugs15:26
yuriy:P15:26
* Jucato looks at the bug reporters name and says oop!15:26
Jucatos15:26
* yuriy is no expert to make suggestions, but can see problems15:27
Seregahow about to show changes (changelog from last version) before package update?15:28
Jucatoyuriy: btw... there are reinstall and purge in the actions15:28
JucatoChangelog tab?15:28
Jucatoit fetches the changelog from the server15:28
Jucatoer wait. actions menu or context menu?15:28
Seregaat least for community-supported packages15:29
yuriyJucato: on the details page, under the package description15:29
JucatoSerega: all official packages (main to multiverse)15:29
Jucatoaaah15:29
Riddellwe have changelog support15:29
Jucatohm... jjesse or Riddell, there was also mention of apturl in that (non-existing) spec for add/remove.. does that affect kio_apt?15:30
yuriythe changelog is not working, btw15:30
Seregaand adept shows changes only from previous version? I missed this...15:30
Riddellerk, changelog shows "Index of /changelogs/pool/main"15:32
yuriydoesn't show anything for me15:32
Riddellso task for Serega, fix changelog showing :)15:33
Jucato:)15:33
Serega:)15:33
Riddellbut talk to manchicken about that, he did the current code15:33
manchickenYou can't pin that on me.15:34
manchickenOh, maybe you can.15:34
Seregais "manchinken" a nickname?)15:34
Seregaoh...15:34
Seregahi15:34
* Jucato teaches Serega about tab autocompletion in IRC15:35
Jucato!tab | Serega15:35
ubotuSerega: You can use <tab> for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC, as well as for completion of filenames and programs on the command line.15:35
yuriyooh another minor thing: in adept installer, the button on the bottom says "next" when disabled and "apply changes" when enabled15:35
* Serega applauses!15:35
SeregaWhere Adept should get changelog info?15:42
Jucatochangelogs.ubuntu.com I think15:43
RiddellSerega: the feature is already there, it just needs debugging to work out why it doesn't always work15:44
Riddell"just"15:44
SeregaRiddell: I understand15:44
HobbseeRiddell: but we know why it doesnt always work.15:45
RiddellHobbsee: why's that?15:45
HobbseeRiddell: it breaks when the source adn binary package is in a different component.15:45
* Hobbsee filed a bug abotu this a while ago.15:45
Seregawow...15:45
Riddelllooking at an update of adept and it's broken, adept is all in main15:45
Seregathings tend to change quickly :)15:46
Hobbseeah, so this is a differnet lot of changleogs breakaging?15:46
Riddellopenoffice seems to work15:47
* Hobbsee doesnt know which lot of breakage you're talking about.15:47
Riddelland now I look at ttf-opensymbol and it shows me the openoffice changelog15:47
Seregaaahhh... I'm at job and cannot test it all right now :(15:48
bddebianHeya15:48
RiddellHobbsee: all of it!15:48
HobbseeRiddell: well, duh ;)15:48
yuriyJucato: tell me when you're looking through adept+system settings stuff.  if i'm free... err procrastinating at the time, i'll help out16:03
Jucatoyuriy: sure. but feel free to start w/o me.. I'm also.. um... procrastinating :)16:04
Riddellmhb: I think KDE starts up fine without a splash screen16:20
Riddellon a live CD of course is a different atter16:20
Riddellmatter16:20
SeregaRiddell: I think we should keep in mind users with weak computers16:23
RiddellSerega: for what?16:26
Riddelloh, the splash16:26
RiddellSerega: the trouble with the splash is that to start just the splash it needs to load all of kdelibs itself16:26
Riddellso you're half way to KDE before the splash shows16:26
Riddellgetting rid of the splash makes slower machines faster, but the perception may be that it's slower16:27
Serega:)16:29
SeregaRiddell: maybe we should consider to make some "light" splash writetn on Xlib only?16:30
Serega*written16:30
Riddellthere is one16:30
Riddellbut it's ugly16:30
SeregaRiddell: I'm completely agree with you about start time of KDE splash itself16:31
Riddellksplashsimple16:31
Riddellsuse has a more advanced one16:31
Seregaugly? bad code?16:31
Riddelllooks ugly to user16:31
Seregais it a problem to make nice looking splash without KDE or even without Qt?16:32
Seregawe can focus on existing implementation16:33
Seregaand make it even better than in SuSE16:33
Seregabtw, I would like to implement kaffeine codec autoinstallation as I have already announced it in mainling list16:35
Seregabefore I start Adept fixing, or something else16:35
Riddellnixternal: dot story there for you to edit16:38
RiddellSerega: ah hah, good idea16:38
RiddellSerega: and probably more satifying that hacking adept :)16:38
SeregaRiddell: of course, taking a look at my experience in kubuntu development $)16:39
Serega;)16:39
RiddellSerega: kaffeine mostly just needs to run /usr/lib/amarok/install-mp3 when it can't play something16:39
Riddelloh and kplayer too preferably16:39
Seregaya, jpatrick advised me to look at amarok's source16:40
Riddellif you slip in ability to download and install w32codecs and libdvdcss that would be interesting too (it may well not survive though)16:40
Seregawhat do you mean?16:41
Riddellwell currently amarok installs libxine1-ffmpeg which helps play some files16:44
Seregaaha16:44
Riddellbut not encrypted dvds or various more proprietry codecs16:44
Seregatrue16:44
Riddellwe can't include w32codecs and libdvdcss in the archives16:44
Riddellbut it's an open question if we can point to URLs where they happen to be16:44
Riddellrestricted manager does this for broadcom firmware16:45
SeregaI've understood that part, " (it may well not survive though)" was confused me16:46
Jucatoquestionable legality probably?16:46
Riddellsomeone might decide we can't point to URLs where they are (since it would make us look like we're supporting copyright enfingement for w32codecs)16:46
Riddellbut as I say we already do with restricted-manager16:47
RiddellSerega: ksplashx is inside http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/suse/src/kdebase3-SuSE-11.0-8.src.rpm16:47
Riddellyou can use alien to extract it16:47
SeregaRiddell: thnx16:48
jpatrickRiddell: where can I get the lastest adept code?16:48
Riddelljpatrick: apt-get source adept16:48
Riddellalso launchpad.net/adept with bzr16:49
SeregaRiddell: but isn't it the same to automatically install MP3 support?16:49
Riddellbut I think bzr is out of date16:49
jpatrickRiddell: ok16:49
RiddellSerega: MP3 isn't a breach of copyright, it's a breach of a very dubious patent16:49
Riddelllibdvdcss is a breach of stupid DMCA type laws16:49
SeregaRiddell: oh.. I'm weak in laws)16:49
Riddellw32codecs and broacom firmware seeems to be a blatant copyright breach16:50
SeregaRiddell: now I'm undertand16:50
Seregas/I'm/I16:50
jpatrickhmm, funny, my developer changelog thing works..16:50
sebasnixternal: Do you have a minute for me?16:51
SeregaRiddell: so what packages can I install anyway? libxine-ffmpeg?16:51
Seregas/I/kaffeine16:52
Riddellyes16:52
Riddellthat one is certain16:52
SeregaInteresting, does Canonical have a department of lawyers to find potentially dangerous solutions?16:53
Riddellwe'd just point to a URL where they exist for w32codecs or libdvdcss so it's not illegal on our side, it's just a potentially bad image if we are supporting copyright infringement16:55
Seregabtw, I never used w32codec and can play everything fine with kaffeine16:56
Serega*w32codecs16:56
SeregaSo I think we have no need to point to it16:56
Seregaand this is most ugliest thing, because of "w32"16:57
Seregathat looks like unability of open software to play videos itself for windows enthusiasts :(16:58
Seregalibdvdcss is something different, It just can help me to play my honestly bought DVD's on PC17:00
Seregamany people want to do that17:00
SeregaRiddell: my working day at job is over and I have to go home. I hope we will continue this discussion later17:01
RiddellSerega: see you soon then17:06
Sereganice to meet you17:06
Seregabye!17:06
mhbgood to see you jpatrick17:15
mhbjpatrick: I've just pushed some changes into the branch17:15
mhbI did them while I was on bus17:15
mhbRiddell: nice, can we get rid of the bouncy logo that overwrites itself and is generally not visually pretty, too?17:16
mhbI mean at least on KDE startup, pretty please17:17
jpatrickmhb: I've been playing compiz - doesn't work here at all17:17
mhbjpatrick: too bad, but I hope they can improve things during the cycle17:18
mhbjpatrick: please update your branch17:18
jpatrickthey better if this module is to do something ;)17:19
jpatrickmhb: I am right now17:19
jpatrickah, done already17:19
mhbjpatrick: I may have done something you were working on, I hope you're not mad :o)17:21
jpatrickmhb: not at all, I need all the pointers I can get17:21
mhbI've also started working on a Qt4 version so we're not behind KDE4 porting17:22
mhbit's just the UI yet17:22
DaSkreechmhb: on D bus?17:23
mhbDaSkreech: what's on D bus?17:26
mhbah, yes :o)17:26
mhbDaSkreech: a good one17:26
DaSkreechmhb:  :)17:26
mhbjpatrick: elif is the way to go in Python?17:39
mhbjpatrick: I must have had too much C in the last few days :o)17:39
mhbRiddell: I think we could (discuss about) take a bold step forward and point to libdvdcss and codecs17:40
jpatrickmhb: hmm, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43029/ :)17:40
jpatrickmhb: be thankful you get C class /has to suffer VB17:41
mhbjpatrick: be thankful you've got VB, I've got Pascal and C# classes17:41
mhb:o)17:41
mhbjpatrick: our teacher is enlightened enough to allow C for assignments17:42
jpatrickok, you win17:42
mhb:o)17:42
jpatrickmhb: what config file should we be read from?17:43
mhbRiddell: a) we would keep up with distros like PCLinuxOS who are gaining support because they don't really care much about it and simply ship it on a CD b) we won't get sued because of point a) -- they'll get sued first17:43
mhband pointing to files isn't actually illegal AFAIK, the user is the one who acknowledges the download... IANAL though... and I have never heard of anyone being sued or even criticized for playing legal DVDs on Linux17:44
mhbjpatrick: the same one Ubuntu does? I don't know which one is it, though.17:45
mhbjpatrick: we should investigate17:45
Jucatoafaik the latter one is how Gentoo gets around the whole legality question. it doesn't really distribute the codecs, but merely automate the download17:45
mhband I think we should do the same - ask the user whether he wants them/knows that it is legal in his country then automate it17:47
mhbbecause stuff like this really makes us a bit worse in Windows users' eyes17:48
Riddellmhb: w32codecs isn't legal anywhere17:48
Riddelland we'll get sued before PCLinuxOS do, we have a company with money17:48
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
mhbwhen I hear mark I am not that sure about it :o)17:49
mhbdo you know of any company that got sued? or any user?17:49
* DaSkreech steps out of #kubuntu17:50
mhbI am using libdvdcss, and I am proud of it - I like to play the movies I bought.17:50
DaSkreechWE need more people to help out there. Thankless job :-(17:50
Jucato<nocivo> Daskreech thanks17:50
DaSkreechJucato: I meant rounding up more people to help out in #kubuntu17:50
Jucatosure. where will we get those people? :)17:51
DaSkreechonce people start helping it's generally satidfying until release time when the You guys suck cult turns out in droes17:51
DaSkreechdroves17:51
mhbI ask that question a lot17:51
nosrednaekimeh.. what are we talking about?17:52
mhbnosrednaekim: several topic, among them: whether we should boldly go where noone has gone before and offer more so-called "illegal" codecs like libdvdcss, and where to find more people (for devel, #kubuntu help etc.)17:53
mhbtopics17:53
nosrednaekimah... ok17:53
jpatrickmhb: I can't find anything useful in gnome-compiz-manager17:53
nosrednaekimAFAIK. libDVDcss is illegal only in the US, right?17:54
nosrednaekimjpatrick: hey... are you still looking for hings to package?17:54
jpatricknosrednaekim: yep17:54
jpatricknosrednaekim: still kde-biased tho17:54
nosrednaekimjpatrick: two requests then, kicker-compiz and compiz-taskbar17:54
mhbwiki says:17:55
mhbMany Linux distributions do not contain libdvdcss (for example Debian, SUSE Linux, and Ubuntu) due to fears of running afoul of DMCA-style laws.17:55
nosrednaekimjpatrick: they are17:55
nosrednaekimmhb: don't we have to stick with Ubuntu's policy?17:55
mhbhmm17:55
mhbMark says by having less financial support we gain more independence, so I'd say no, but Riddell knows best17:56
DaSkreechSo can we havea welcome screen on first install?17:56
mhbhehe :o)17:56
RiddellDaSkreech: write a plasmoid! (seriously)17:56
nosrednaekimmhb: Mark really said that?17:57
DaSkreechRiddell: too late!17:57
manchickenMan, #ubuntu-devel has some hostile-type folks there...17:57
jpatricknosrednaekim: does kicker-compiz overwrite kicker?17:58
mhbmanchicken: who?17:58
DaSkreechmanchicken: Sup?17:58
jpatrickwait, looks like it don't..17:58
mhbmanchicken: don't worry, you're safe with us17:58
nosrednaekimjpatrick: no... its basically just the desktop pager.17:58
manchickendeadwill17:58
manchickenheh17:58
manchickenmhb: Well, what's scary is that I'm on GNOME now, and probably will be for a while.17:59
DaSkreechIs gnome going GPL3?17:59
mhbmanchicken: get out you cheap little...!17:59
manchickenThat I don't know.17:59
mhbmanchicken: :o)17:59
manchickenmhb: heh17:59
manchickenmhb: I'm just having trouble with everything being on hold, you know?18:00
manchickenmhb: Kubuntu is the only group really doing any active work on KDE3.18:00
mhbmanchicken: I don't know, what do you mean?18:00
mhbmanchicken: oh, KDE4 block18:00
RiddellDaSkreech: why is it too late?18:00
manchickenmhb: Not just KDE4 block, it's leading to code rot.18:00
DaSkreechRiddell: They wrote one already18:00
mhbnosrednaekim: yes, mark said a similar thing18:00
RiddellDaSkreech: who did?18:00
DaSkreechSuse isn't doing KDE3?18:01
manchickenmhb: And what's more, if I'm under KDE, System76 keeps blaming KDE for problems.18:01
mhbRiddell: I think libdvdcss (copyrighted DVD playback) would be okay to point to18:01
DaSkreechRiddell: Don't recall aseigo was talking about it18:01
manchickenAnd for some of them, they're right... but for most they're wrong.18:01
DaSkreechI'll check18:01
mhbRiddell: it's not illegal everywhere, and it only allows nice people who buy legal DVDs to enjoy them in Kubuntu18:01
mhbthat is sort of noble IMHO18:01
manchickenmhb: And just because it's illegal, doesn't mean that folks give two squats about those stupid laws anyway.18:02
Riddellmhb: yes, I agree we should18:02
manchickenmhb: It shouldn't be illegal for me to use what I paid for :)18:03
manchickenmhb for president18:03
nosrednaekimok... now what about Fluendo and amarok...?18:03
Riddellnosrednaekim: what about them?18:03
mhbnosrednaekim: I think we cannot use Fluendo because we're using the xine backend, aren't we?18:04
nosrednaekimis it possible to get a gstreamer engine for amarok?18:04
nosrednaekimAFAIK, Fluendo only makes a gstreamer plugin18:04
Riddellonly for amarok 218:04
nosrednaekimmhb: yeah, thats what I meant18:04
mhbxine is quite a stable and functional engine in KDE3, I wouldn't change that18:04
manchickenWe should start seeing if we could load-balance support a little.18:04
manchickenThere are more than 1K users in #ubuntu for crying out loud... no wonder people repeat and go into -devel channels.18:05
DaSkreechRiddell: My apologies. Aseigo just asked me to work on it :)18:07
DaSkreechthere is one but it shows up and moves. That's about it18:08
nosrednaekimhttp://en.opensuse.org/Playing_mp3s_with_Amarok_and_the_Fluendo_Gstreamer_Plugin18:08
nosrednaekimmanchicken: they are considering pointing users to their local Loco leam channel.18:12
manchickennosrednaekim: That's not a bad idea, except for areas that have small Locos.18:12
Nightrosenosrednaekim: the thing is yauap doesn't work - we had a lot of pople in our channel complaining about it18:12
Nightrose+e18:12
nosrednaekimNightrose: suse?18:12
Nightrosejep18:12
nosrednaekimNightrose: ah... ok.18:12
* nosrednaekim will keep looking18:13
Nightrosedon't know what the actual problem is but it causes problems for a lot of our users18:13
Nightroseand we have to tell them to switch back to xine18:13
RiddellNightrose: what's yauap?18:16
* mhb agrees that xine is a better bet than gstreamer atm18:17
NightroseRiddell: the engine suse uses in amarok since their last release18:17
Nightroseit allows them to distribute a mp3 codec18:17
Nightrosedon't know the exact details though18:17
nosrednaekimRiddell: seems to be a gstreamer plugin for amarok.18:18
Nightrosemhb: jep and amarok no longer supports gstreamer - this is a hack by suse18:18
Nightroseand as I said it is not a very good one...18:19
* nosrednaekim hides from his dumb explanation18:19
Nightrose;-)18:19
Nightroseno need for that18:19
Nightroseit is quite complocated for someone who doesn't use it every day18:19
nosrednaekim(and have to support it as well)18:20
Nightrosejep18:20
nosrednaekimok, so what about this.... we install the fluendo plugins but don't use them.18:22
nosrednaekimwhy should they care which ones we are using as long as we have some legal ones installed?18:23
nosrednaekimmaybe thats too logical for the patent system tho..18:23
mhbnosrednaekim: better not :o)18:24
Nightrosebtw Riddell: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/amarok-devel/2007-October/thread.html and http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/amarok-devel/2007-November/thread.html for latest replies to the ~/Music discussion18:25
Riddellthanks18:27
Nightroseyw18:27
jpatricknosrednaekim: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43032/18:27
jpatricknosrednaekim: ahhh, I see sorry18:35
nosrednaekimjpatrick: eh?18:35
jpatricknosrednaekim: I missed the -ltaskmanager (in kdebase-dev)18:36
nosrednaekimand I'm supposed to understand that ;018:36
jpatrickin a way18:36
* nosrednaekim doesn't understand packaging very well18:37
Riddellmhb: the new compiz-kde from hardy doesn't seem to crash when I'm using KDE's normal window decoration18:58
Riddellbut still crashes when using crytal win deco18:58
Riddellwhich ought to be fixable I guess19:01
Riddellcrystal even has an active upstream, maybe I should just ask him19:01
nosrednaekimRiddell: when does it crash?19:02
Riddellon startup and on changing any kwin settings19:02
Riddellon startup when run through compiz19:03
Riddellrunning through kde-window-decorator after that works ok19:03
nosrednaekimlemme test that..19:03
nosrednaekimoh... ok... thats how I was doing it.19:03
Riddellnosrednaekim: try changing Navigation in Window Behaviour in System Settings19:12
nosrednaekimwhile running the kde-window-decorator?19:12
Riddellyes19:12
nosrednaekimlooks good19:13
nosrednaekimany setting in that set, right?19:13
Riddellnosrednaekim: do you use kconfig in ~/.config/compiz/compizconfig/config19:13
nosrednaekimhummm not sure, how do I check?19:15
Riddellcat ~/.config/compiz/compizconfig/config :)19:18
nosrednaekimoh...duh :)19:18
nosrednaekimbackend is ini19:19
Riddellchange it to kconfig and restart19:19
Riddellrestart compiz19:19
RiddellI'm curious to know how it decides to use ini or whatever19:19
nosrednaekimlost all my effects BTW19:21
nosrednaekimummm nothing still, but I started KWD manually, as I have emerald set (i'm not sure how) to default19:22
Riddellnosrednaekim: system settings -> window behaviour -> navigation -> tick something19:25
Riddellor untick19:25
nosrednaekimdid that...everything is ok19:25
Riddellhmm, fooey19:25
Riddelland you set backend = kconfig ?19:26
fdovingthere is some option in the ccsm about default decoration-thing.19:26
nosrednaekimI'm using AIGLX with the new ATi 8.42 drivers if that makes any difference19:26
gnomefreak8.42 i thought was the last that needed xgl i thought next version was gonna change that. although they have been trying for a long time now19:28
nosrednaekim8.42 has AIGLX19:28
gnomefreakhmmmmmmmm i think i have ati card laying around here i might try in another system19:29
nosrednaekimthis kconfig isn't working too well, settings aren't saved...19:36
jpatricknosrednaekim: kicker-compiz done19:40
nosrednaekimmuchas gracias!19:41
nosrednaekimjpatrick: but i'm going to have to wait till hardy to get it ;)19:41
jpatrickwell you could ask to have it backported19:41
nosrednaekimthats ok...I already have it compiled19:42
jpatricknosrednaekim: if you want anything more, file a bug with [needs-packaging] and assign it to me19:43
nosrednaekimok... thanks!19:43
* jpatrick rips up Apress' Qt dev book19:54
Riddelljpatrick: something wrong with it?20:00
jpatrickRiddell: no, I was just getting it.. :)20:01
yuriyhmm strange, basket doesn't support exporting to network locations for some reason20:01
jpatricksince the Trolltech one was the same as last time20:01
seregaPlease help: how to build debug version quickly?20:02
seregamaybe some standard configure flags?20:03
nosrednaekimserega: version of what?20:04
seregaof executable (automake project)20:05
seregait is kaffeine20:05
nosrednaekimserega: kaffeine --version?20:06
seregais there a standard way to remove -O2 and to add -g3?20:06
nosrednaekimoh... its not compiled yet?20:06
seregayes, I'll make changes to kaffeine20:06
seregaI'm just not so experienced with automake20:07
seregaan I do not know  how to make debug build :)20:07
jpatrickserega: --enable-debug=full20:07
seregajpatrick: great thanks! :)20:08
nixternalRiddell: I will take a look at the Dot story20:13
nixternalsebas: what's up?20:13
Riddellnixternal: thanks20:13
Riddellsebas will want you to publish the dot story20:13
nixternalI finally watched Happy Feet :)20:13
nixternalahh, OK20:14
RiddellI'd remove the excessive use of italics20:14
jpatricknixternal: is that the dot story?20:14
Riddelland change "people" to something more descriptive20:14
nixternalroger dodger20:14
yuriyhmm also shortcuts don't seem to work in basket20:15
seregaI ran into strange trouble: I've recently been removed libxine1-ffmpeg package and expect errors on opening encoded avi's, but kaffeine opens them without errors, but display blank screen about 10 seconds (progress slider is active) Any glue? :-\20:16
jpatrickserega: glue won't help20:17
serega:)20:17
seregaI should dig20:17
DaSkreechRiddell: http://bddf.ca/~aseigo/welcometokde4.png20:18
seregacute, I remember there kaffeine HAD shown errors before libxine1-ffmpeg was installed :)20:18
ryanakcayuriy: about not saving to network locations, it's not the only kde app that does that.... *tries to think of the other culprit*20:19
yuriyyeah i think there was another one... either digikam or krita20:19
RiddellDaSkreech: looking interesting20:19
Riddellwhat's the openID bit for?20:19
DaSkreechYeah20:19
DaSkreechAaron wants to have OpenID right up front20:20
DaSkreech so if you have a an OPenID it can be added instantly20:20
DaSkreech#plasma20:20
RiddellDaSkreech: it should be made so it's easy for distros to customise, so we can add an "install" link on the live cd etc20:20
DaSkreechthey are discussing it now20:20
yuriyshortcuts in basket for the various icons on the notes Ctrl+[0-9] don't seem to work at all, and in some cases clash with other shortcuts. Anyone confirm?20:20
DaSkreechRiddell: eh?20:20
DaSkreechOh20:20
DaSkreechStartup on the Live CD20:20
ryanakcaDaSkreech: sorry for my ignorance.... but, what is that screenshot for? Install KDE4?20:20
DaSkreechryanakca: firstboot plasmoid on KDE420:21
nosrednaekimlike kpersonalizer?20:21
* nosrednaekim likes kpersonlizer20:21
ryanakcaDaSkreech: hmm... and the openID thing would be for?20:21
yuriyneat plasmoid20:21
ryanakcayuriy: looks sharp :)20:22
DaSkreechryanakca: an easy way for peopel with OpenID to drop it in the system20:22
DaSkreech KDE4 looks to be very OpenID friendly20:22
* yuriy wonders if the "get new stuff" button should launch the package manager20:22
* nosrednaekim googles OpenID20:22
yuriyi've been meaning to get one, especially after troy grilled me on my ignorance20:23
* ryanakca knows of it's uses as a central login system, or something similar, but, what use would it have in KDE4 as a desktop? Something similar to kwallet?20:23
ryanakcaoops... uncentral20:23
yuriyi think it would be useful if you could use it to log into sites such as flickr for integration with digikam.  especially more useful once akonadi rolls around.20:24
* ryanakca nods20:25
mhbgood evening to all europeans20:27
Riddellgood afternoon20:27
mhband each other time of day to the non-europeans :o)20:27
nosrednaekimyou're getting smart mhb20:27
ryanakcahey mhb :)20:27
mhbnosrednaekim: no I'm not, me bad english strikes again20:27
mhbs/each/every20:27
mhbRiddell: hi, how did the KDE4 session go?20:28
mhbhi ryanakca20:28
nosrednaekimmhb: pfft...don't worry about that... we all know it was a simple typo ;)20:28
Riddellmhb: no big surprises20:28
Riddellhttps://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyKde420:28
yuriylol "kde 4 rocks, we should support it"20:29
yuriyRiddell: is that kde 3 edu or kde4edu?20:29
Riddellyuriy: I hope to have kde4edu as default20:30
mhbaww, packagekit :o(20:30
Riddellmhb: why aww?20:31
mhbI don't really like the concept, remember?20:31
RiddellI do remember, although I don't remember why just now20:31
mhbI like things simple (and fast), and the design (use a daemon at all times, communicate using D-Bus) sound too complex (and error-prone) to me20:32
mhbthis way, the apps will eat resources quite fast, IMHO ... and I wouldn't like another Yast Package Manager.20:33
yuriybut we already run adept_notifier at all times20:33
mhbtrue (and I don't like that app either, for other reasons like hacked-in apport), but we never send the whole contents of our package list via D-Bus20:34
Riddellnew k3b out!20:36
mhbapp wants package list -> app needs to ask for package list via D-Bus - app needs to wait while deamon crunches - daemon sends *all* the package names thru D-Bus - app is happy, but we need to catch all the errors in communication, what happens when the daemon sends malformed data etc. etc. etc.20:36
Seregajpatrick: may I ask you another question about tools?20:36
jpatrickSerega: sure, any time20:37
mhbbut it seems I am the only one who is afraid of a slow app20:37
mhband after all, we're software developers, we cannot make apps faster with new releases! So that kind of resolves it.20:37
Seregajpatrick: thanks. I got this: "not in executable format: File format not recognized" from GDB20:37
Seregajpatrick: where I missed?20:38
jpatrickRiddell: according to the site it was released 38 years ago20:38
mhbtoo bad nobody proved me wrong yet, I would so like to join the cheering packagekit masses20:38
SeregaI suspect this "This GDB was configured as "i486-linux-gnu"..."20:39
jpatrickSerega: are you sure you're running the exe?20:40
Seregajpatrick: can it be a machine type mismatch20:40
nixternalRiddell: take a look at the post now? If I make edits and click change, does it change the main one, or do I have to press "repost" in order for it to save the changes so you can look at them?20:40
Seregajpatrick: yes, sure20:40
jpatrickRiddell: should I try and package it20:41
jpatrick?20:41
Seregajpatrick: I can run it without any trouble20:41
Seregajpatrick: I've configured it with --enable-debug=full20:41
jpatrickhmm, no idea then20:41
Seregaok, thanks20:42
nosrednaekimooohhh we;re doing KDE4 liveCd's now?20:43
Riddellnixternal: it chages it20:43
Riddelljpatrick: you'd need to merge with debian at the same time20:44
Riddellnixternal: & needs to be &amp; in URLs20:45
Riddell(and elsewhere)20:45
fdovingmhb: what kind of packagelist is it you're talking about? available?20:46
Riddellnixternal: no <br /> at start, but use paragraphs instead (also on 3rd block)20:46
Riddellnixternal: I'd get rid of the <hr />20:46
Riddellnixternal: and People -> Developers20:46
mhbfdoving: for example, yes.20:47
mhbfdoving: any larger chunks of data will create slowdowns because they have to be transported thru D-Bus.20:47
fdovingmhb: in that case it's not that huge, the daemon doesn't need to be anything but a app that registers to dbus and reads /var/lib/dpkg/available20:47
Seregajpatrick: OMG, I figured out! :) That was really not a binary 'kaffeine', but a script in build directory. Thanks another time and sorry for disturb :)20:48
mhbfdoving: consider this:20:48
jpatrickSerega: we're all here to help each other out :)20:48
fdovingmhb: doesn't need to be faster than aptitude i presume?20:48
mhbfdoving: for item in packagelist:20:48
mhbwell, let's rather describe it20:49
fdovingplease do.20:49
Seregajpatrick: it's amazing, I keep being amazed with the work of the Community. It's great!20:50
mhbwon't the daemon run through each of the files first, add it to some array, then send the whole array over D-Bus, then the frontend has to read through each of the items in the list, and load it into the GUI. Or would it provide one package at a time asynchronously? Then we would do N D-Bus calls, and that might be kind of expensive for N >= 10000 and N is usually even bigger.20:51
mhbin Adept, the manager can do just one loop, and store the info directly into the GUI.20:52
RiddellI'd think storing it in the GUI in adept will use more memory than in packagekitd20:54
mhbRiddell: we have to store it in the GUI in the end20:54
fdovingmhb: if the client can be smart and add calls to a list, and use some kind of magic EOR (end of request), then the daemon reads that info from the files and replies. or something like that.20:54
Riddellah but in qt 4 it uses model view :)20:54
mhbfdoving: I'm not sure I understand how we send the N package names in your scenario and load them up in the GUI (which we have to do anyway)20:56
DaSkreechnosrednaekim: What you think of OpenID ?20:56
fdovingmhb: reading the packagelist at startup can't be that slow. it's 1.4MB here. that is /var/lib/dpkg/available if you add status it's 3MB total.20:56
fdovingstoring it in memory while the app is running can't be a problem.20:57
DaSkreechyuriy: http://www.nuno-icons.com/images/estilo/welcome.png20:57
mhbfdoving: storing at the daemon or at the client?20:57
mhbfdoving: or at both?20:57
buzjpatrick: i just tested the kde-luks package on gutsy (had to do force-all to get it installed though)20:57
buzworks like a charm20:57
fdovingmhb: or drop the daemon and load it directly into the client.20:57
jpatrickRiddell: ^^ upload kdebase patch and I'll get kryptomedia into universe20:58
fdovingmhb: would probably add ~2 sec to startup time.20:58
fdovingon slow systems.20:58
buzjpatrick: there's actually a bug report against kde itself20:58
buzwhich has had some activity in the past few days20:58
jpatrickbuz: yes, that was me20:58
buzoh cool ;)20:58
mhbfdoving: drop the daemon? You *have* to have a daemon, otherwise it's no packagekit anymore :o)20:58
nosrednaekimDaSkreech: sounds like a good Idea, rather like Firfox's passowrd manager, except cross system,20:59
mhbfdoving: loading the packagelist up may be a good idea, but loading it at the daemon, then sending it, then parsing it is not one20:59
nosrednaekimwhat is luks?20:59
buzjpatrick: there's one issue i'll have to look into: how does kryptomedia ensure the password doesnt get swapped out?21:00
jpatricknosrednaekim: encrypted hard disk thingy21:00
jpatrickbuz: I have no idea...21:00
buzis there some flag for "dont swap this page?"21:00
buz(i know the kernel itself takes measures against swapping out passwords, but as long as they reside in userspace?)21:01
nosrednaekimah.. ok21:01
DaSkreechnosrednaekim: Yeah looks to be amazing. really have to thank LJ for that21:01
buzin any case, thanks a lot, jpatrick21:01
DaSkreechnosrednaekim: luks is encrypted hard drive I think. Still headwrapping it21:02
nixternalRiddell and sebas: posted the KOffice interview/article21:02
fdovingmhb: loading it on request then, at client startup? - keeping it loaded 24/7 can't be needed, can it?21:02
buzjpatrick: wait a second, i get asked for password, but mountpoint doesnt seem to be setup properly21:03
mhbfdoving: yes, loading on client startup, also at client's request, which may be several times while it is loaded21:03
nosrednaekimahh.... you learn stuff when you hang out here :D21:03
nosrednaekimnixternal: where is it?21:03
fdovingmhb: yeah, on refreshes etc.21:03
DaSkreechYou know what would be interesting in Adept?21:04
DaSkreech a way to get a list of all manually installed packages21:04
buzlooks like kryptomedia decrypts the device and creates an appropriate node in /dev/mapper but doesnt actually mount it21:04
mhbfdoving: still, you have to either send a lot of small data thru D-Bus (and I can bet that'll be slow-er) or go through each package once, then send the whole list, then go through the package list again21:04
DaSkreechbuz: So if the hard drive is swapped out to a new machine it's unreadable ?21:05
buzno21:05
buzyou can move drives between machines21:05
buzthe key to the drive is stored encrypted on the drive21:05
Riddellnixternal: your first publication!21:05
DaSkreechBut it's encrypted21:05
fdovingmhb: can't you fetch only packagenames and states first, then the detailed info on request?21:05
buzyou need the password to decrypt the key stored on the drive which is used to decrypt the data21:06
DaSkreechAh so you have to provide the Key21:06
DaSkreechok21:06
mhbRiddell: the dot article? how come it is published by sebas then?21:06
buzhaving one key stored on the drive means you can change passwords without reencrypting everything21:06
Riddellmhb: he submitted it, nixternal ticked the publish button21:06
mhbah, okay, proofreading21:07
Riddelland box ticking!21:07
Riddellnixternal: you didn't republish it, which is fine since it was only recently submitted, but mind to republish if it has been in the queue for more than a couple of hours21:08
jpatrickRiddell: would merging debian changelog be enough?21:11
jpatrickall, the other changes are the ones in KUBUNTU-....21:12
nixternalRiddell: gotcha, that explains "repost" :)21:12
Seregaguys, how are you debugging (non-kdevelop projects) usually? kdbg? ddd? naked gdb?21:13
Riddelljpatrick: yes21:13
RiddellSerega: gdb21:14
jpatrickok, so that's that done21:14
Seregacool...21:14
yuriyDaSkreech: yeah i saw that, it's gorgeous, like all nuno's work21:20
jpatrickRiddell: k3b uploaded to revu21:22
DaSkreechyuriy: What get new stuff button ?21:23
yuriyDaSkreech: in the previous (aseigo's?) mockup there's a get new stuff button21:26
DaSkreechyuriy: Ah right :) Yeah that's funny21:26
yuriyi think the idea is for it to launch KHotNewStuff to get more plasmoids, but it would seem sensible to have it launch Add/Remove Programs21:27
DaSkreechyuriy: official response is bring you a lovely girl or a rugbyman after a simple question21:30
DaSkreechWell depending21:31
jpatrickRiddell: things in lintian need to be sorted however it's not letting me upload due to a failed upload21:34
DaSkreechhttp://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=20260015821:42
Nyleok21:48
Nylehi21:48
NyleI have the kubuntu gusty21:48
NyleI am using latest updates and all that21:49
DrakeJustice_Nyle: #kubuntu will help more than this channel21:49
Nylethis keeps happening on a consistent basis, but I can't make it happen, it just seems to happen21:49
Nyleif I click a menu, sometimes that will trigger X/kdm to reboot21:49
Nylesometimes it happens when moving a window21:49
Nylesometimes entire system locks up and sometimes goes blank21:50
Nyleif i click shutdown, the system sometimes locks up with black screen21:50
NyleDrakeJustice_: 05:48 <       DaSkreech> Nyle: can you jump to #kubuntu-devel and explain what happens21:50
DaSkreechNyle: When you drag a window X crashes ?21:51
ryanakcaNyle: Compiz/beryl/etc?21:51
Nylesometimes21:51
Nylecompiz fusion, even without sometimes21:51
Nylesometimes running applications will just diappear21:52
Nylenot even windows21:52
Nylejust background proceses sometimes just disappear like they were never running21:52
ryanakcaNyle: odd... background processes = in terminal type thing?21:53
Nyleyes21:53
DaSkreechNyle: Whats your load ?21:53
Nyle145 lbs21:53
Nylewhy?21:53
ryanakcano, computer load :P21:53
ryanakcarun top21:53
Nylehow do i know?21:53
Nyleok21:53
DaSkreechWhen processes start dying it' s a good indication taht the kernel is trying to get back memory21:53
Nyletop - 17:53:50 up 19:17,  2 users,  load average: 0.07, 0.09, 0.2521:53
DaSkreechNyle: It's in the top right hand cornere21:53
DaSkreechwell that's not it :)21:54
NyleMem:          2026       1828        197          0        579        75321:54
Nylethis only happens in gusty ubunti21:54
Nylekubntu21:54
Nylenot in debian or xp21:54
NyleI tried to look at some logs but they don't make sense to me21:55
DrakeJustice_Nyle is stoned21:55
Nylewhat to do what to do21:55
NyleDrakeJustice_: not right now21:55
* ryanakca raises his eyebrows at DrakeJustice_ 21:55
DaSkreechNyle: does it happen after being up a certain time or will it happen after hours as well as withing 15 minutes of loggin in?21:56
Nylerandom times21:56
Nyleunpredictable21:56
DrakeJustice_lol21:56
Nyleryanakca: my ip before the @ is stoned handle21:56
DaSkreechNyle: Have you looked at the X logs?21:56
ryanakcaNyle: ah, hehe :)21:56
NyleI tried to DaSkreech but won't make sense21:56
ryanakcaNyle: *shrugs*, pastebin them, along with /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?21:57
Nyleok21:57
DaSkreechNyle: you are looking for any line that has EE21:57
Nylewhich log files are you wanting?21:57
Nyleand which paste service to use that accepts large log file21:57
DaSkreechNyle: ok  You can probably get help in #kubuntu I thought it was a different issue21:57
* ryanakca doesn't know if it's of any use, but DaSkreech knows more about it that I do :)21:57
NyleDaSkreech: ok21:57
Nylewhat do you guys do?21:58
Nyleyou take kde and modify it for ubutnu?21:58
DaSkreechNyle: the /var/log/Xorg.0.log file and the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file21:58
DaSkreechNyle: Yeah21:58
Nylehmm21:58
Nylemostly good work but some problems are here21:58
Nylefor exmaple it deleted my mouse gestures in input actions21:59
* ryanakca invites Nyle to share them with us :)21:59
Nylegusty did feisty was awesome21:59
Nylethat is 121:59
mhbooh I love that article, DaSkreech21:59
Nyleoh, and the default kmenu looks really ugly (personal teaste)21:59
mhbObstacle: KDE Must Replace GNOME As Linux's Preferred GUI22:00
mhbespecially this part22:00
Nylealso open office is installed by default instead of koffice22:00
Nyleon the distribution cd22:00
Nylenot enough kde stuff is installed22:01
DaSkreechmhb: :)22:01
Nyleits very small on the kde part22:01
DaSkreechNyle: We would love to ship Koffice22:01
Nylebut.?22:01
DrakeJustice_global linux solution: 'cat log | grep EE' lol22:01
Nyleoh and also, unlike feisty, there is one more problem22:02
DaSkreechNyle: doesn't have decent support for "other formats"22:02
Nylethe gtk2-engines-gtk-qt isn't installed by default22:02
DaSkreechit also doesn't have excellent support for ODF either22:02
Nyleso there is no way to configure those ugly gtk2 apps22:03
Nylei hate gtk22:03
Nylerest of the polish work is nice22:03
Nylei don't have to do much really22:03
* ryanakca wonders why people need openoffice and koffice when they can just use vi/emacs/ed/kate/prefered-editor + LaTeX ;)22:03
Nyleare you seriously asking?22:04
* DaSkreech du -ck tapes ryanakca to the LaTex22:04
ryanakcathe wink at the end hinted at my sarcasm :P22:04
Nylenow that I have told you how I feel about kubuntu22:04
sebasnixternal: Wonderful, thanks!22:05
Nylewhat do you have to say?22:05
DaSkreechNyle: Glad you like it ! we are working hard to make it better. Would you like to work with us?22:05
Nyledo I get paid?22:05
DaSkreechAsk mark :)22:05
nixternalno problem sebas22:05
NyleI only need 1000 dollars a month22:06
Nyleto live22:06
Nyleyou pay me, and I do fulltime work on kubuntu22:06
Nylehell i'll work all day22:06
Nyle:D22:06
* ryanakca suggests you become a Kubuntu member first... not required, but it would help :)22:07
Nylein fact, forget the money, give me an unlimited supply of pottery equipment22:07
Nyle*wink wink*22:07
* nixternal suggests you twist sabdfl's arm first22:07
Nyleoh hey22:07
Nylebtw22:07
ryanakcahehe, I'd get payed if I could... but... I can't competently program, so I end up doing random tidbits for people :)22:08
NyleI got the feisty soruce package of kxdocker, applied the kubuntu patch, and then applied the patch for compiz, and compiled it, but it crashed if you try to go to the settings dialoge22:08
Nylealso, if I try to use dpkg-buildpacakge or dh-make or apt-get -b etc.22:08
Nyleit errors out, however I can manually build the source through ./configure make22:09
ryanakcaNyle: use sbuild or pbuilder instead, much safer :)22:09
NyleI heard about pbuilder22:09
ryanakcaI like sbuild + LVM better though :)22:09
NyleI'm going to package doomsday for debian22:10
Nyledunno anything about kubuntu or ubuntu22:10
Nylemy first week using it22:10
Nyleexcept for the amazingly annoying lockups and crashes, its nice22:11
ryanakcaif it gets into Debian, it'll almost definitely (*doesn't know if there ever is a debian package that doesn't get synced/merged into Ubuntu*) end up in (*)ubuntu22:11
Nylewell22:11
Nylethe packge I was working on last wasn't in debian until well after it was in ubunt... nevermind22:12
Nyleit wasn't an official package22:12
Nyle3rd party22:12
Nylebut then someone else took over so I said take it away22:12
Nyleits SMC, secret maryo chronicles22:12
Nyleso i guess yeh, it ws in debian first22:12
ryanakcaOooh, I remember trying to package that... /bad/ first package.22:12
Nylehe was more dedicated22:13
Nyleplus he was also the maintainer of the dependecies of the game22:13
Nylei worked on it for 70+ days and he did for uptil now22:13
Nyleand onwards22:13
NyleI was gonna take up bubs n bros game22:14
Nyleyou know that expression22:20
Nylewhere in god's green goodness am I going to .....blahblahblah22:20
NyleI like green goodness22:20
Nyleeheheheh22:20
ryanakcahehe22:20
* ryanakca => supper22:20
sebasnixternal: You're now on my nag-list to get dot stories posted (lucky you, Riddell)22:21
nixternalhehe, gee thanks :)22:22
* nixternal goes into hiding22:22
jpatricknixternal: could you revu http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=k3b ?22:22
nixternalBUILD KDE 4 MODS BUILD!22:22
nixternaljpatrick: depends on how much money you have?22:22
jpatricknixternal: 10 cents22:23
nixternaldgetting it now22:23
jpatrickwait, lastest upload is yet to show up22:23
crimsun_dang, ten cents?22:24
crimsun_I feel ripped off22:24
crimsun_I can't get Rich to do anything for any amount of money22:24
jpatrickdirectory (/var/revu/revu1-incoming/k3b-0711030101/) of upload (496) not found22:26
jpatrickthat's great :(22:26
nixternalcrimsun_: I told you, no matter what you need, I will help you, but you gotta fix Intel HDA first22:29
nixternaluntil then, no help for you!22:29
DaSkreechIs Beta4 out yet?22:30
DaSkreech I know it's been taged22:30
nixternal!topic22:31
ubotuPlease read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic22:31
DaSkreech No not for Kubuntu22:31
DaSkreechI know that22:31
DaSkreechever mind I'll go read dot22:32
nixternalwell if we are working on it, wouldn't that mean it is out? :p22:32
mhbPlease read the dot.kde.org whenever you ask such questions.22:32
DaSkreech I'm a few days out of the news loop22:32
* mhb is mimicking the bot style22:32
DaSkreechnixternal: :-P no that means it's tagged22:32
nixternallol22:32
DaSkreechWish I wasn't so damn tired22:32
nixternalDaSkreech: Debian released a KDE Live CD yesterday featuring Beta 4, wouldn't that mean it is out?22:32
nixternal:p22:32
DaSkreech Stupid staying up late at night22:33
nixternalI am tired myself22:33
DaSkreechnixternal: Hmm good point22:33
DaSkreechI should pull that and see how it is22:33
DaSkreechmhb: KDE needs to replace Gnome ;-)22:33
nixternalwouldn't boot for me22:33
DaSkreechGNOME is attractive to some seasoned Linux users because it one of the few complete desktop environments that is more lightweight than KDE,22:34
nixternalI love people who make stupid comments like that22:34
nixternalI wonder what they mean by lightweight? Gnomes menu bars are smaller than Kicker?22:34
DaSkreechThe limitations in GNOME are also unobtrusive to someone who knows how to get around them;22:34
DaSkreechnixternal: I think he meant RAM22:34
jpatricknixternal: ok, done: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=k3b22:35
nixternalDaSkreech: if he means RAM, then that statement is totally wrong22:35
DaSkreechThe argument goes that Gnome on first boot uses less RAM than KDE but KDE uses RAM more fficently22:35
nixternalKDE has been benchmarked against Gnome, Xfce, and flat out X iirc, and the winner was XFCE with KDE in second, and Gnome light years behind22:35
mhbnixternal: I love people who kind of mention Kubuntu as the most promising distro out there22:35
DaSkreech so if you have a server that you don't intend to look at very often but want a GUI then ship with Gnome22:36
DaSkreechmhb: Young distros are always promising22:36
nixternalit is to me, as it isn't loaded with 1) Firefox (eww), 2) non-free codecs, 3) because I work here22:36
DaSkreechHa ha22:37
DaSkreech3 FTW!22:37
nixternalRiddell: plasma-playground is trying to overwrite plasma_applet_battery.so which is from -workspace (fyi)22:37
nixternalactually, it is trying to overwrite a lot that is provided in -workspace22:39
DaSkreechWhat is the point of PackageKit?23:28
DaSkreechAnyone use akregator?23:36
DaSkreechseele: :-)23:41
nosrednaekimah! celeste is a Kubuntu dev?23:43
imbrandonanyone got a merge they just dont feel like doing ? i'm outa merges23:44
DaSkreechHmm?23:44
imbrandonRiddell, ^^23:44
DaSkreechHa ha :)23:44
imbrandonnosrednaekim, yes celeste / seele is a Kubuntu contributor , dunno much about packaging work though she concentrates on others things iirc23:44
nosrednaekimBRB23:45
DaSkreechShe's uber translator23:45
imbrandonmoreso design and useability and such, but i cant speak for her23:46
DaSkreechYeah23:46
DaSkreechshe translates between computer and human between dev and Devin23:47
DaSkreechUber ;-)23:48

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