[00:01] imbrandon: Where is the part about windows having free licenes in Nigeria ? [00:02] dasKreech, you'll have to search a bit, i dont have the link handy but the OS's were given free [00:03] didn't Microsoft create an XP that was stripped of things so they could sell it cheaper or give it away? [00:03] yes [00:03] I wonder if that is what it is, if it is, then it makes the whole thing sting that much more [00:03] because not only did they get windows, but they got a rather stripped down version [00:04] that UbuDSL looks sharp [00:04] XP for the Classmate and OLPC is $3 [00:05] holy smokes [00:05] http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/20/microsoft-will-sell-3-software-to-developing-countries/ [00:05] 4/20 :p [00:05] XP Starter Edition [00:06] http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/newsroom/winxp/WinXPStarter-material.mspx [00:18] imbrandon: starter editon is terrible [00:37] imbrandon: how do you know the build of the Debian KDE4 cd ? [00:37] http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde4livecd.html [00:41] Right [00:41] is it a daily? [00:42] Oh never mind it says Beta4 [00:42] sorry [00:42] its out? beta4? [00:44] ssh [00:45] ssh what? [00:50] ssh about beta4 i assume [00:50] ssh as in secret [00:51] hi imbrandon! hi seele! [00:52] hallo [00:53] heya [00:55] seele: what do you use for wireframing? visio? dia? kivio? :D [00:56] Jucato: visio [00:56] ah ok. thanks :) [00:56] (they look purty...) [00:57] ah, thanks :) [01:02] hi Jucato [01:02] hi dasKreech [01:03] * Jucato wonders if either dia or kivio have stencil sets for GUI widgets... [01:04] even if they did, theyre uh.. "difficult" to use [01:04] heheh :) [01:05] * Jucato doesn't have visio to know how easy it is to use... :( [01:07] seele: have you heard of this software? http://www.axure.com/home.aspx [01:07] Jucato: yeah, i have it [01:07] wow :) [01:07] although i dont like it for wireframing or IA work [01:07] visio is still much better [01:07] but for interface prototyping it is very nice [01:09] I've been looking for a comparable FOSS or even freeware alternative. the UI prototyping feature seems to be very nice [01:09] yeah, but its .NET3 so i cant run it in wine [01:10] Yet [01:10] aw... silly .NET :( [01:10] What about Mono? [01:10] mono only supports .net 2 thus far [01:10] yeah [01:11] shouldnt be long though, the mono team is pretty speedy [01:11] I know are they moving towards 3 yet? [01:11] 6 months or a year i would bet [01:11] at adapting MS technology? :) [01:11] oh well... an interactive slideshow would probably work as well :) [01:12] Jucato, yea mono is fairly open [01:12] err .net [01:12] * Jucato read somewhere that MS will "open" .NET source, with NDA's of course... [01:13] Jucato, the specs are already open, no real need for source [01:13] its an ecma standard [01:14] ah [01:14] ecma.... isn't ooxml an ecma standard too? [01:14] no [01:14] not iirc [01:14] http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm is c# there are others that pertain to it too [01:15] http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-376.htm OOXML is :/ [01:16] but its incomplete [01:16] you cant implment all things [01:43] make your own stencil set? [01:43] prolly... if I get enough motivation to do it :D [01:53] Emotioanl motivation? [01:54] *motivation [01:58] I [01:58] 'll buy you a pizza :) [02:01] hello Jucato [02:01] evening jjesse! [02:01] can you buy me a pizzza? [02:01] dasKreech: had that the other day. we're going out to buy chinese probably :) [02:01] mom's bday :) [02:01] you want a pizza with sleeping powder? Sure :) [02:02] gun powder on mine [02:06] Jucato: Ken said real soon! [02:06] think green [02:06] * nosrednaekim is a greenie [02:06] no environmental friendly green :) [02:09] gPC green? /me hides from nixternal [02:10] E is pretty cool [02:10] but gOS keeps crashing on my desktop [02:10] What's the next macOS? [02:10] I haven't messed with E in a long time [02:10] that's because you didn't buy it at walmart [02:10] dasKreech, 10.5.1 ? [02:10] I don't shop at Wal-Mart! [02:10] Ha ha :) [02:10] What's the cycle they are on now? 18 months? [02:11] osx? they dont have a predetremind cycle [02:11] "when its ready" [02:11] nixternal: you got gOS? [02:11] KDE 4.2 might go up against it [02:11] ya [02:12] it took forever and a day to download [02:12] Would be nice to have a Kubuntu vs commerical OS showdown :) [02:12] why on earth? [02:13] no doubt [02:13] nixternal: its just E17 right? [02:13] sides Kubuntu falls under a "Commercial OS" too, canonical provides support :P [02:13] that is like comparing plastic surgeons [02:13] nosrednaekim: ya [02:13] last time I messed with E was many years ago [02:14] I tried it on fiesty... I didn't really like it.. but its FAST! [02:14] ya, our packages for E sucks...there is some dude with an E repo that has good stuff [02:14] what is E ? [02:14] Enlightenment [02:14] Enlightenment DE [02:14] actually, the guy who has them used to hang out here [02:14] nixternal: I got it from somewhere else, forget where [02:15] he has the Mandriva repos too [02:15] Hawkwind? [02:15] something like that [02:15] yea [02:15] ya, his packages are good, they don't crash out all of the time [02:16] yeah... hawkwind... they were good packages [02:17] nixternal: hawkwind? [02:17] ya [02:17] he was here last year hanging out [02:18] nixternal: you have any idea how many times a month I have to answer the query. Do i have to remember commands when I install Linux? [02:18] I know I miss him :( [02:18] he logged in not too long ago too [02:18] hung out for 15 then gone again [02:19] heh [02:20] nixternal: the rhetorical question was in your response to Why would I want a showdown [02:20] find someone to do an unbiased showdown, then you are good [02:20] otherwise, it will be worthless [02:20] and honestly, I don't know of a single media outlet that could do an unbiased report [02:21] nixternal: how about the suckers who got 17,000 Windows starter editions? [02:21] I will leave that one alone [02:23] I would love to know more about that entire story though [02:24] Yeah but I'll let the chairheaver and the frenchie battle it out [02:25] oh wow [02:25] So all three OSes are roughly reaching the point where they are starting to mature [02:26] v [02:26] http://media.arstechnica.com/video/leopard-intro.mov [02:26] Sweet [02:27] We don't have intro stuff at all why? [02:28] did hobbssee sign on tonight or did we scare her away last night? [02:28] I doubt anyone scared hobbsee away [02:29] E|:-}> [02:30] Whoops [02:57] is it bad that i'm triaging bugs from one user [03:01] no, we love you for it [03:22] there's like 40 bugs from the same user that are in ALL CAPS IN THE TITLE WHICH MAKE THEM MORE IMPORTANT TO TRIAGE [03:29] jjesse: bug --> Invalid due to excessive rudeness. [03:30] the guy creates a new bug about the same subject like every month cause no one has helped him out [03:30] * jjesse grumbles and reaches for the Point Stick of Death [03:49] jjesse: Just tell him all the smart people are on the forums. He should ask there. [03:49] lol [03:49] seriously this is the 3rd set of bugs i've cleaned upd duplicates on [03:50] jjesse: Hang in there. It's important work you are doing. [03:50] can we ban people from reporting bugs :) [03:51] i love this bug: bug # 147833 [03:52] bug 147833 [03:52] Launchpad bug 147833 in kdebase "konqueror crash when closed it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147833 [03:52] jjesse: Crash on close is a legit, but low priority issue. [03:53] ScottK: it just strikes me as funny [03:53] or something crashed for no apparent reason [03:54] it possibly means resources are being doubly cleaned or so [03:54] I have a pretty large number of apps that crash on close [04:01] anyone have a clue how they would preserver your /home dir on a format? [04:02] setup /home in a different parition and don't format that drive [04:04] Yeah there is a sepc for hardy that seems to do away with that [04:04] Let me read it some more :) [05:01] nixternal: what's real soon? [05:01] this week [05:01] the build is done [05:02] kde4? [05:02] * Jucato is confused. just got back :) [05:02] If I want a calendaring/contact sharing server [05:02] Hula? [05:20] * Jucato misses Hawkwind... [05:21] if E only had even 3/4 of KDE's awesome features, I probably wouldn't even be here :) [05:21] (reacting to gOS, dasKreech-style) [05:22] oh reading huge backlogs and making comments? [05:23] yeah... but I kinda missed the part about replying 6+ hours after the factg [05:23] fact* [05:36] OK, bed time [05:36] k'nite :) [05:36] knight nixternal! === mjk is now known as genii [08:31] Riddell: hi [08:32] amachu: he's at the UDS, so he's unlikely to respond (according to the web it's 4:30 there) [08:32] I mean respond at this time, of course. [08:32] Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kid3/+bug/159441 [08:32] Launchpad bug 159441 in kid3 "Merge kid3 0.9-4 from debian unstable " [Undecided,Confirmed] [08:33] mhb: ok [09:52] hi folks [09:53] umm, we just have 2 kubuntu-* tasks to do for Hardy? Catchup and KDE4? [09:53] I know it may be all we can manage at this point, but I'd expect more stuff to be discussed :o) [09:55] well, they're kinda big :) [09:55] i suspect the rest is encompassed in kde4, actually [10:49] hello Sereg [10:49] Hi, guys [10:50] Sereg: what would you like to help out with? [10:50] I'm experienced C++ developer and love Qt/KDE [10:50] Also I have some basic skills in Python [10:50] see: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu [10:51] yes, I'we already joined the mailing list [10:51] but cannot pick any task myself [10:51] I heard something about needed software for flash drive formatting... [10:52] Sereg: what we're aiming at this cycle -> porting our apps for KDE4 and catching up with Ubuntu [10:52] those are our tasks, of course, you're free to choose what you like yourself [10:52] mmm... is there some tracking system of needed/done issues? [10:54] It is my first time in community development, so please describe me how do you do that (if you have some time to spare :) ) [10:55] Sereg: well, the catchup plans are at: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup [10:57] Sereg: prehaps you could look into the Codec install thing? (looking around at how Amarok does it might help) [10:57] It would be great for me! [10:57] how to assign myself to this task? [10:58] Sereg: just work away at it :) [10:58] mm... there is no sync between developers? what if someone already does it? [10:58] Sereg: saying that you're doing it, on our mailing list, would be a good idea [10:59] people tend to know what each other are doing, as there are so few people [10:59] oh, right :) [10:59] thanks [10:59] Sereg: of course, you can always help out with KDE4 (at www.kde.org) if you prefer application devel [10:59] so I need to install kdelibs-dev and go on [11:00] * Hobbsee tries to remember what dh_icons actually does. [11:00] kdelibs4-dev [11:00] mhb: I have not so many experience in KDE development for this yet [11:00] Sereg: neither do I, but I'm doing my best :) [11:00] jpatrick: and where can I get sources of kaffeine for KDE4? [11:01] =) [11:01] Sereg: I ask that myself a lot of times [11:01] Sereg: it'd be better if you patched the KDE3 Kaffeine, cos that's the one going into the final release [11:01] Sereg: they aren't really available yet, we need to fix KDE3 Kaffeine [11:01] aha... [11:02] Sereg: the KDE4 patch will be very similar [11:02] that's cool [11:02] Sereg: KDE4 will be too unstable for long term support [11:02] Sereg: so, 'apt-get source kaffeine' is your friend [11:03] and how abount distro alpha's and beta's? should I preserve some disk space to install them in future? [11:03] is it required? [11:04] Sereg: not really, because kaffeine won't change [11:04] err, I think that's the guinea pigs job [11:04] :) [11:04] Sereg: how amarok does it: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=545638 [11:06] quite cute solution [11:06] mhb: do you know how I can edit the layout of compiz-kde-guidance so the buttons don't shrink? ( http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=we4ym6.png ) [11:07] thank you, guys, for such warm meeting! I hope to be useful [11:08] jpatrick: change the height of them to be Maximum or Fixed, I guess [11:08] mhb: it didn't like that [11:09] no? [11:09] I'll poke around with it for a while [11:10] Sereg: most people here are busy / sleep / something, so things take some time [11:11] there was no any sarcasm, no [11:12] maybe it's my mistake, in my country "warm meeting" is synonimous to "very nice, friendly mmeting" [11:12] Sereg: basically, there are different things to work on. coding an app / fixing bugs is different to doing distro testing, for eg [11:12] so youc an do one and not the other [11:14] I like the idea to add codec autoinstallation to kaffeine [11:15] jpatrick: I can try it, just commit your changes so you don't have to merge [11:16] mhb: I'm pkg something right now, I'll work on desktop-kde a few moments later [11:19] okay, I'll try to do that by myslef [11:19] Sereg: are you familiar with Qt/KDE? [11:19] Sereg: development, that is [11:20] he said he loved it :) [11:21] oh did he? [11:21] * mhb must have misheard, sorry [11:22] in #kubuntu that is === sebas_ is now known as sebas [11:24] jpatrick: yes, I'm familiar with Qt (especially with Qt4) and have little experience of KDE3 application development [11:25] yes, I love Qt =) [11:26] I wonder why GNOME based distro is a mainstream of Ubuntu. I think that KDE applications are much more usable that GNOME analogs [11:26] Mark says: "Because KDE does not have a fixed release cycle, and KDE's UIs were too messy in the past" [11:26] Recent interview on lxer.com :) [11:27] :( [11:27] there doesn't seem to be a KDE4 port of Kaffeine yet [11:27] sebas: how recent? as in days recent? [11:27] http://www.abclinuxu.cz/clanky/rozhovory/mark-shuttleworth?page=1 [11:27] oh, and hi sebas, Hobbsee, mhb, jpatrick [11:27] I think I'll be able to port Kafefine to KDE4 after my current task. [11:27] hiya Jucato [11:28] hi Jucato [11:28] Sereg: Rather do codeine, it's got a much cooler UI :-) [11:28] or something else is planned to default video player in kubuntu Hardy? [11:28] s/cooler/simpler/ but I agree :) [11:28] kaffeine's the one (I think) [11:28] Sereg: still kaffeine.... [11:28] but Hardy will not have KDE 4.0 by default [11:28] :-Â [11:29] :-D [11:29] wow... [11:29] we can't [11:29] This makes sense [11:29] longish interview... thanks sebas [11:29] we'll freakout porting everything to kde4 hardy+1 cycle [11:29] Sereg: by virtue of Hardy being an LTS release, we can't have KDE 4.0 yet [11:30] KDE4 will be released only in December, and I don't believe in full stability [11:30] but there will be Gutsy-based KDE 4 Live CD's [11:30] but as early as now, we do need to plan already :) [11:31] Jucato: let's have a meeting :) [11:31] Jucato: so I can also make some pretty fixes of d3lphin?! [11:31] * Jucato points to the one with the long pointy stick [11:31] * Jucato would rather that the fix be rm -rf d3lphin... but that's personal [11:32] Sereg: I'm afraid that we would have to take the burden of actually fixing d3lphin. I've e-mailed the upstream maintainer almost 2 months ago, regarding the patch that I made. no reply [11:32] Jucato: +1, korqueror rulezz [11:33] :( [11:33] bad [11:33] dunno. maybe real life took over... it always does... [11:33] d3lphin has ugly flickering on moving cursor over several long-named files [11:33] although I'd have to say, d3lphin's huring dolphin's image a lot.. :( [11:35] we really only have 2 approved specs for Hardy? :/ [11:35] any other unapproved specs? [11:36] how come you people dislike Dolphin(3) too much? [11:36] I find it perfectly usable personally [11:37] :) [11:37] and I use Dolphin4, too - they are comparable when it comes to features I use [11:37] mhb: IMHO, It is too raw for default kubuntu's file manager [11:37] d3lphin? comparable to dolphin? :/ [11:37] oh well... dinner === Sereg is now known as Serega [11:38] Sereg: really? The only complaint I have is that nobody really imported the translations [11:38] otherwise it seems quite usable [11:39] mhb: maybe, it speaks my habit to konqueror's behahior :) [11:40] Serega: well enjoy konqueror while it lasts [11:40] anyway, I like the idea about two side panels [11:41] the main issue I disliked is filckering :-\ [11:41] because the time will come when a new, faster KDE Web Browser arrives, and people will love it, and since they're happy with Dolphin, many distros will dump Konqueror to oblivion [11:43] although all top kde devs claim that Konqueror will still be a filemanager it used to be, it will progressively be "the same" like Keramika or some other theme nobody really uses anymore [11:43] I thought that konqueror web browser is nothing but KHTML engine wrapped into the complete application [11:44] No, it's much more. [11:44] bookmarks, kwallet, KJS, KIO, KSSL to only name a few things that it needs integration with. [11:45] yes, I missed [11:46] my opinion - if we have Dolphin - The usable (and pretty fast) filemanager for KDE, how long does it take before somebody comes with an idea of KFoo - The Usable (and pretty fast - faster than Konq) Web Browser? [11:47] oh, what a dull name [11:47] jpatrick: hehe, just the classic name substitute (foo-bar) [11:47] konq has one big flaw for me - it doesn't show the page until all the pictures are loaded :( [11:48] mhb: and a classic quote from the HHGttG :) [11:50] jpatrick: it's older than that [11:50] Serega: yeah, I somehow find Konq slower than Firefox subjectively [11:53] does anybody know smth about gutsy and laptop keys? Guys from launchpad have figured out that it's 2.6.22 kernel problem :( [11:54] bless them [11:55] what laptop keys? [11:55] volume down/up? [11:55] aha... [11:55] and brightness, etc... [11:56] that was bad surprise after feisty->gutsy upgrade [12:17] mhb: you should spend time in #kubuntu or kubuntuforums.net... get to hear user comments [12:19] * jpatrick hasn't been to the forums in a while [12:20] :) [12:20] Jucato: those channel are designed for complaining :o) [12:20] channels [12:20] Jucato: anything new over there? [12:20] perfect excuse :) [12:21] if they want to comment so loud it reaches me, make sure they file bugs [12:22] great idea. We'd rather flood ourselves with duplicate bugs filled with complaints, rather than limiting them to a place where it's more conducive for them, and less hassle for us to filter :) [12:22] Jucato: no, let them complain in the places they should, like the channels [12:22] jpatrick: nothing much. although I've noticed we have much more traffic now than when I started there :) [12:22] it's not too overloaded, but not dead either [12:23] but if they want to change anything, they better show their arguments, not complains [12:24] we're going in circles. [12:24] nvm [12:24] if they prefer Konqueror, then they should be lucky, because their app is on the CD by default [12:24] mhb: put koffice on the cd and I'll be happy :) [12:25] jpatrick: yeah, or perhaps putting KDE3libs and KDE4libs side to side, so that the transition can be smooth [12:25] mhb: I thought kdelib3 was long gone [12:26] but I know what you mean? [12:26] kde3libs = KDE 3 libs :) [12:26] :P [12:26] mean.* [12:26] we will have to anyway. transition or not. there will be some apps that haven't been ported yet to KDE 4 by that time anyway [12:26] kdelibs3 is some KDE2 libs according to that weird Debian naming, right? [12:26] yes [12:26] that's why I said KDE3libs, like KDE3 libraries [12:28] I found my new favourite English word! It's the kibibit! [12:31] Jucato: I'm afraid we would need some serious compression in order to achieve that [12:31] mhb: unfortunately... unless of course we just not ship any KDE 3 app... like Konversation... in case it hasn't been ported yet [12:31] and even a simple KDE4 CD would take more space than the KDE3, at least I think so [12:33] kdelibs/kdebase seem to be a lot bigger now with KDE4 [12:33] it is? [12:33] I haven't done any precise measurements, though [12:33] mhb: i thought it got significantly smaller [12:34] and they added stuff? [12:34] don't base it from our kde4 packages though. those have been built with fulldebug afaik [12:34] don't base the size I mean [12:35] seele: really? I made estimates by the kubuntu kde4 packages, perhaps the nodebug versions of them will be smaller [12:35] Jucato: ^^ [12:35] it was just an estimate ... I really hope I'm wrong here :o) [12:35] of course, my experience with software development is that expecting that the next version will be faster or smaller is really absurd :o) [12:36] but not impossible or improbable [12:36] +1 [12:36] for one, afaik, some classes have been dropped because they have been implemented in Qt 4 already [12:36] can't say w/c though [12:36] Jucato: okay, name one piece of often-used software that actually gets faster with each release [12:37] KDE? [12:37] kernel? [12:37] :) [12:37] kubuntu? [12:37] upstart? [12:37] Jucato: Kubuntu is slower [12:37] gutsy maybe.. but Dapper -> Edgy -> Feisty definitely had speed increases imho [12:37] I found much more responsiveness from gutsy [12:37] Jucato: I published some measurements some time back [12:38] then I have no defense against that :) [12:38] some people don't have the benefit of technical know-how in proper benchmarking to really see the difference. we can only measure with our senses [12:39] Jucato: hmm, perhaps I didn't [12:39] ...as an generic user [12:39] *a [12:39] I know Edgy was really faster than Dapper, then it declined, I had some numbers, but it seems I published other [12:39] mhb: i remember the devs making a big deal about it after kde4 because most of the week was spent rennovating the core libs [12:40] but there is a lot of new stuff, it maybe the end result really is larger [12:40] trolltech also promised a speed increase in Qt4 [12:40] as I remember [12:40] Serega: everyone promises that, don't they? [12:41] :-D [12:41] seele: probably more stuff has been added to kdebase than kdelibs... [12:41]