[00:30] <ailean> does hardy even exist yet?
[00:33] <LjL> ailean: not really... the toolchain is there, and i think they're starting to import packages from debian, but that would be about it
[00:34] <ailean> the topic suggests that there's something to work with :)
[00:35] <somerville32> ailean, Yes, it does exist. Feel free to upgrade but I doubt it'll work, lol
[00:35] <somerville32> (for long atleast)
[00:35] <ailean> i'll leave it a while :D
[00:35] <bazhang> 210 packages, 180MB or so
[00:36] <bmk789> wouldnt hurt to use it in a VM, test bugs and such
[00:36] <ailean> yeah, maybe . . .
[01:26] <billytwowilly> so how much awesome is hardy than gutsy so far?
[01:26] <Toma-> i doubt it even runs
[01:27] <billytwowilly> so I should wait an hour or two before updating?
[01:27] <Toma-> or even a month or 3
[01:29] <bazhang> check out the proposed features at www.fsckin.com
[01:32] <martalli> Is kde4 planned to be default for hardy kubuntu?
[01:33] <jimmygoon> I can't wait for Hardy... I can't wait for Hardy!
[01:58] <Sonicadvance1> Yo, what's are the repos for Hardy?
[01:59] <hydrogen> mm
[01:59] <Sonicadvance1> is it just hardy or heron? :P
[01:59] <hydrogen> martalli: no
[01:59] <hydrogen> Sonicadvance1: its the same as every other release
[01:59] <hydrogen> Sonicadvance1: if you do not know the answer based on that upgrading is a really bad idea
[01:59] <Sonicadvance1> I'm just trying to make sure! D:<
[02:00] <hydrogen> let me rephrase that
[02:00] <hydrogen> upgrading is a really bad idea
[02:00] <Sonicadvance1> A lot of choices in life are bad ideas
[02:01] <hydrogen> right
[02:01] <hydrogen> that doesn't mean you should make them
[02:01] <Sonicadvance1> sometimes you just have to
[02:01] <Sonicadvance1> :D
[02:01] <hydrogen> and the rest of the time it just makes you an idiot
[02:02] <Sonicadvance1> woo idiocy
[02:41] <martalli> hydrogen: Maybe it would be nicer just to remind people that early versions of any ubuntu+1 will be very unstable, with no guarantees of staility
[02:41] <martalli> s/staility/stability
[02:41] <hydrogen> martalli: thats what the topic is there for
[02:41] <Sonicadvance1> :D
[02:41] <hydrogen> I'm here for when the topic just isn't enough
[02:42] <Sonicadvance1> oh look, It's done installing all the packages
[02:42] <martalli> These days, apt-get is just a disappointment
[02:43] <martalli> Back before the final release, there were always new packages to install.  Of course, now my audio works, so the trade off might be worthwhile
[02:44]  * Sonicadvance1 breaks martalli's audio and runs
[05:11] <Sonicadvance1> Well, That was horrible :D
[05:13] <bazhang> installed it?
[05:13] <Sonicadvance1> Installed it, then reinstalled 7.10 :D
[05:13] <bazhang> haha
[05:13] <Sonicadvance1> X didn't work
[05:13] <Sonicadvance1> oh well
[05:13] <bazhang> no bulletproof X :{
[05:14] <Sonicadvance1> :D
[05:14] <Sonicadvance1> I noticed
[05:14] <Sonicadvance1> failed when falling back on the failsafe X
[05:14] <Sonicadvance1> which made me laugh
[05:15] <bazhang> :}
[05:15] <bazhang> at least you could find some humor in it
[05:15] <databuddy> eh
[05:15] <Sonicadvance1> eh
[05:16] <databuddy> eehh
[05:16] <databuddy> eeeeehh
[05:16] <databuddy> XD
[05:16] <Sonicadvance1> :D
[05:16] <databuddy> so
[05:16] <databuddy> where can i find a link on how to creat a spec for migrating one package to another
[05:18] <Sonicadvance1> aw, now I need to reinstall libgpod :P
[05:55] <khermansen> is Xorg broken in hardy?
[05:55] <khermansen> i am getting conflicts
[05:55] <crdlb> probably
[05:55] <bazhang> early reports say yes
[05:55] <khermansen> :-(
[05:55] <khermansen> lets fix it!
[05:56] <crdlb> it's been like 2 weeks...
[05:56] <khermansen> ill help -- what can i do
[05:56] <bazhang> and failsafe x may fail
[05:56] <khermansen> failed to load modules vesa, and kbd
[05:57] <khermansen> interesting
[05:57] <khermansen> what is the loading process?
[05:57] <khermansen> and why did it fail?
[05:58] <Sonicadvance1> hehe
[05:58] <Sonicadvance1> early report from me! D:<
[05:58] <crdlb> come back in a month :)
[05:58] <khermansen> i think it is because xserver-xorg-core wont build
[05:58] <khermansen> and also xserver-xorg-input is also not available in repos
[05:59] <bazhang> had heard that tribe 1 will be end of this month
[05:59] <holzmodem> where can i request an update of one package (kdesvn) ?
[05:59] <bazhang> #ubuntu-dev?
[06:00] <Sonicadvance1> oo, tribe 1 at the end of the month? :D
[06:00] <lemo> i guess launchpad is good place to request also
[06:00]  * crdlb wonders where all the patience went :(
[06:01] <holzmodem> i search thru launchpad, but i can't find any information about requesting updates of packages
[06:03] <lemo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/attal/+bug/2596 - there's one request
[06:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 2596 in attal "Attal in Ubuntu is almost not playable, 4 new attal versions (0.9.3, 0.9.4, 0.10, 0.10.1) released, please update" [High,Fix released]
[06:03] <lemo> it's like normal bug request
[09:12] <`23meg> Hobbsee, ping ping
[09:15] <`23meg> should I recommend people to use "update-manager -d" to start testing development versions, or to change their sources.list? AFAIK update-manager doesn't start notifying about development versions until a certain phase; when exactly is that?
[09:27] <Hobbsee> `23meg: when it gets put in, i expect.  cant see the point of putting it in yet, as testing is rather frought with danger atm.
[09:28] <Hobbsee> `23meg: either should work fine at this point.  i havent seen much breakage yet - although there's X stuff that looks fun.
[09:29] <`23meg> Hobbsee, update-manager doesn't seem to be working atm
[09:30] <Hobbsee> `23meg: then, recommend the sources list.
[09:30] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I'm writing a "how to test" sticky for the forum, that will be up for the duration of the cycle
[09:30] <`23meg> hence my asking
[09:30] <Hobbsee> `23meg: don't do it till the autosyncs have finished, etc.
[09:31] <Hobbsee> `23meg: pepole will just hose their X, by forcibly dist-upgrading.
[09:31] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I know, I'll mention that
[09:31] <`23meg> Hobbsee, so either will work all along the cycle and are equally recommendable?
[09:31] <Hobbsee> `23meg: well, update-manager's sort of working now.
[09:31] <Hobbsee> `23meg: the other, of course, always works.
[09:31] <`23meg> Hobbsee, ok, thanks
[09:32] <Hobbsee> there will be breakage, so it's probably safer to use the manual approach.
[09:32] <Hobbsee> it's really not supposed to be used at this point.
[09:32] <Hobbsee> although, i fixed gnome-hearts yesterday
[09:32] <Hobbsee> so that actually starts now.
[09:32] <`23meg> haha
[09:33] <`23meg> Hobbsee, should I drop an approximate time that's safe an meaningful to start testing?
[09:33] <Hobbsee> alpha 1 for the earliest adopters should be sufficient.
[09:34] <Hobbsee> i'd be one of the few devs running it now, i think
[09:34] <`23meg> yeah, I bet most don't
[09:34] <Hobbsee> makes no real sense to run it
[09:36] <Hobbsee> `23meg: better to try and get the forums people to do useful stuff - most bugs are getting fixed inadveratntly at the moment, so there's no poitn in filing them.  or at least, as far as i've seen
[09:38] <`23meg> Hobbsee, will do
[09:40] <Hobbsee> `23meg: particularly about packages not there yet, or dependancies.
[09:41] <`23meg> Hobbsee, yes, I'm mentioning that
[09:41] <Hobbsee> cool
[09:42] <Hobbsee> `23meg: getting there!  https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/+builds?build_text=&build_state=pending&start=75&batch=75
[09:42] <Hobbsee> wow, less than 10000 now for all arches combined!
[09:42] <Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds?build_text=&build_state=pending
[09:42] <Hobbsee> build build build!
[09:44] <`23meg> Hobbsee, thanks for reminding; I'll link to the arch pages so that people can check the pending builds, dependency waits, etc.
[09:45] <Hobbsee> `23meg: i doubt it'll help - it tends to be hard to understand.
[09:45] <Hobbsee> but, it might be useful for some
[09:45] <`23meg> Hobbsee, hard to understand what?
[09:45] <Hobbsee> what those pages mean.
[09:45] <Hobbsee> why some of the stuff that has built isnt in teh archives yet
[09:45] <Hobbsee> etc
[09:45] <`23meg> if people ask questions, I'll direct them to you :P
[09:46] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:46] <Hobbsee> i'll just not respond :P
[09:50] <hellboy195> Hobbsee: hey, can you explain the realtion between building and buildscore to me? :)
[09:52] <Hobbsee> hellboy195: higher buildscore == get queued higher.
[09:52] <Hobbsee> simple :)
[09:52] <hellboy195> Hobbsee: thx. and how high does the buildscore could go?
[09:53] <Hobbsee> no idea
[09:53] <hellboy195> Hobbsee: ok ^^ anyway thx :)
[11:47] <IdleOne> update wants to remove 33 xserver packages
[11:50] <IdleOne> Oh Oh! here comes some serious breakage :/
[12:01] <IdleOne> well not so much breakge that I can see . let;s hope it stays this way
[14:39] <Mohero> Hi all
[14:40] <Mohero> just wondering as Herdy is going to be another LTS, will there be a document on upgrading 6.06LTS (server) to 8.04LTS Server without trailing through each release between?
[14:40] <awalton__> That's the plan.
[14:40] <Mohero> that is, once it's released... not for Alpha/beta
[14:41] <Mohero> excellent
[14:41] <Mohero> I normally do alot of testing and playing with the desktop releases, but i tend to leave my server be :)
[14:42] <Mohero> so upgrading from LTS to another LTS would be great
[14:53] <IntuitiveNipple>  Anyone good with solving 64-bit / 32-bit compilation issues, specifically, solving the macro-hell that is building qemus 32-bit targets on x86_64?
[15:35] <Arenlor> I truly can't wait until Alpha 1
[15:37] <Worm> Hah, you will ;)
[15:45] <Mohero> don't have much choice BUT to wait :D
[15:46] <Arenlor> I know lol, but it's seriously one of the few things to look forward to this year lol
[15:59] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I ping you
[15:59] <Hobbsee> `23meg: pong
[16:00] <`23meg> I'm recommending against filing bugs from VM testing installs against anything that has low level relations with hardware
[16:00] <`23meg> you think?
[16:03] <`23meg> Hobbsee, like, people shouldn't file kernel or X bugs if testing in a VM, right?
[16:03] <Hobbsee> um...probably not so useful.  *shrug*
[16:04] <Hobbsee> no point filing kernel bugs yet anyway - no new kernel
[16:04] <Sebastian> What about bugs (such as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/157366) that are about Ubuntu not working correctly in a VM?
[16:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157366 in ubuntu "Gutsy freezes in VMware Workstation 6.0.2-59824" [Undecided,New]
[16:04] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I'm not talking about yet, but in general
[16:04] <Hobbsee> well, it can be useful
[16:04] <Hobbsee> that's what people test installs on, etc.
[16:04] <Hobbsee> but real h/w is more useful
[16:06] <`23meg> Hobbsee, what should I list in the sticky thread as the "don't file bugs if..." cases? I'm thinking frankensteined installs with non-ubuntu libraries, binary drivers, etc.
[16:07] <Hobbsee> `23meg: anything that's had automatix on it, anything from non-ubuntu packages.
[16:07] <Hobbsee> binary drivers tend to be pointless, too
[16:09] <`23meg> Hobbsee, k
[16:09] <Pici> I thought apport refused to file bugs if it detects .automatix files
[16:10] <Hobbsee> Pici: it does
[16:25] <hydrogen> don't file bugs if... you upgraded because it sounded fun
[16:27] <`23meg> Hobbsee, that should be "binary drivers not supplied by Ubuntu", right?
[16:27] <Hobbsee> `23meg: even if ubuntu supplies the binary drivers, by nature, they cant fix it.
[16:29] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I know, but bugs -are- tracked for l-r-m, etc.
[16:29] <Hobbsee> `23meg: sure, but nothing gets done about them.
[16:30] <Hobbsee> for teh most part
[16:33] <`23meg> Hobbsee, I'm just trying to get the wording right
[16:33] <`23meg> Hobbsee, --> (For the kernel, X and other components that interact closely with hardware) If you're using binary drivers not supplied by Ubuntu
[18:17] <siimo> who is rockin' hardy?
[18:18] <crdlb> people who don't need X
[18:19] <Pici> woo
[18:20] <siimo> i compile my own X
[18:21] <siimo> just use base system =)
[18:32] <SpudDogg> where can i download hardy?  i need something to mess around with
[18:38] <siimo> SpudDogg: cant u distro upgrade from the current
[19:15] <Viper550> Hey Hardyians
[19:47] <KevinO0oO> hello can someone point me to a download link for the beta?
[19:51] <Viper550> Don't think there are any builds of Hardy yet
[19:53] <KevinO0oO> ok thanks Viper550
[19:53] <Viper550> I think we have a roadmap or something
[19:54] <KevinO0oO> I just figured since it said not to run hardy there was one, naturally I want to run it anyway
[19:54] <KevinO0oO> lol