[00:40] <bobesponja> do I need to add a line to sources.list? I can't get kde4 beta3 packages here
[00:43] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: read the topic in #kubuntu
[00:46] <bobesponja> DaSkreech: it gives a link to the kubuntu.org page that says to install kdebase-workspace and kde4base-dev, but I already have those and they are beta 2
[00:50] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: Gutsy?
[00:53] <bobesponja> DaSkreech: yep
[00:54] <DaSkreech> and you don't have kdebase-workspace in universe ?
[00:55] <bobesponja> DaSkreech: i do have it but only 3.94
[00:55] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: how are you installing?
[00:55] <DaSkreech>  Apt-get or adept?
[00:56] <bobesponja> apt get
[00:56] <DaSkreech> run a apt-cache policy kdebase-workspace
[00:56] <DaSkreech> and pastebin it
[00:57] <bobesponja> kdebase-workspace:
[00:57] <bobesponja>   Installed: 3.94.0-0ubuntu2
[00:57] <bobesponja>   Candidate: 3.94.0-0ubuntu2
[00:57] <bobesponja>   Version table:
[00:57] <bobesponja>  *** 3.94.0-0ubuntu2 0
[00:57] <bobesponja>         500 http://mir1.ovh.net gutsy/universe Packages
[00:57] <bobesponja>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[00:57] <DaSkreech> !paste
[00:57] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[00:58] <DaSkreech> http://www.kde.org/info/3.94.php
[00:58] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: ^^^
[01:02] <bobesponja> DaSkreech: but 3.94 is beta2, not beta3 right?
[01:02] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: read the link
[01:09] <bobesponja> DaSkreech: this page is wrong: http://www.kde.org/info/3.95.php
[01:09] <bobesponja> DaSkreech: beta 3 is 3.95 not 94
[01:10] <DaSkreech> If you say so :)
[01:10] <DaSkreech> I trust The KDE website a little more
[01:10] <DaSkreech> but I may defer to you
[01:16] <uga> bobesponja: my kde reads right now... 3.95, beta 4 =)
[01:16] <uga> so now, what's right and what's not ;))
[01:16] <uga> not talking about docs. Talking about "about kde" menu :P
[01:17] <bobesponja> DaSkreech: im pretty sure about this, check kde svn or whatever
[01:18] <bobesponja> its not about me against kde or you for that matter :)
[01:18] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: Where are you looking in the SVn ?
[01:18] <bobesponja> tags
[01:19] <uga> in case you don't believe me: http://www.telefonica.net/web/ugarro/version.png
[01:21] <uga> updated from svn around half an hour ago
[01:22] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: Sooo what's BEta 4?
[01:22] <bobesponja> DaSkreech: KDE 3.95 was released on October 30th, 2007. http://www.kde.org/info/3.95.php says it all
[01:22] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: Yes
[01:23] <DaSkreech> it says Beta 4
[01:23] <uga> bobesponja: http://websvn.kde.org/tags/KDE/3.95/kdelibs/INSTALL?view=log
[01:23] <uga> read there
[01:23] <uga> it's under 3.95 tag
[01:23] <DaSkreech> the info/3.94.php says BEta 3
[01:23] <uga> and says... guess...
[01:23] <uga> tagging KDE 4.0 beta4 / KDE Platform RC1
[01:23] <uga> and I somehow trust Dirk =)
[01:25] <bobesponja> lol ok then I had 3.94 on my laptop since w few weeks already :)
[01:25] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: Thumbs up
[01:25] <DaSkreech> Another satisfied customer :)
[01:26] <bobesponja> but how can i have 3.94 since a few weeks if it was released a few day ago, it must be an old snapshot or something
[01:26] <uga> bobesponja: 3.95 was released a few days ago
[01:26] <uga> not 3.94
[01:27] <uga> 3.95 was tagged on the 26th October
[01:27] <uga> 7 days ago
[01:28] <bobesponja> ok so whys that on not on kubuntu then??? kidding
[01:28] <DaSkreech> bobesponja: read the topic in here now
[01:28] <uga> I really don't see the point on any distro providing these packs anyway...
[01:28] <DaSkreech> uga: ???
[01:28] <uga> for devels, there's svn. And users shouldn't use it, imho
[01:29] <DaSkreech> release early relelase often
[01:29] <uga> there's no much point in devels using snapshots
[01:29] <DaSkreech>  get feedback
[01:29] <uga> and feedback is what... "It's broken"? =)
[01:29] <DaSkreech>  Aaron having a Bug Krush on Saturday(today)
[01:29] <DaSkreech> that's all useful stuff
[01:29] <DaSkreech> uga: Yes if they can point out stuff that might be missed otherwise
[01:30] <uga> okay, but I don't see the desktop being usable in this state
[01:31] <uga> DaSkreech: so far not even kmail has worked, the desktop cannot be customised in any manner, and lots of kcm modules cannot be tested because the privilege management problem
[01:31] <uga> those are the things that most users would report about
[01:31] <DaSkreech> Not even Kmail sure choose a simple app why don't you
[01:31] <DaSkreech>  ignore all the ones that worm
[01:31] <DaSkreech> work
[01:32] <DaSkreech> but do silly things like have an option to remove the menu bar but Ctrl+M doesn't work
[01:32] <uga> DaSkreech: what does any Bob user do with his pc on a daily basis
[01:32] <uga> write in word, send e-mails and customise his desktop
[01:32] <uga> ftp...? web?
[01:32] <DaSkreech> uga: This is NOT being pitched at Bob D. User right now
[01:32] <uga> DaSkreech: THAT's my point =)
[01:32] <DaSkreech> But it equally should not be hid from the world
[01:32] <uga> it's aimed at developers mostly
[01:32] <nosrednaekim> yes!
[01:32] <uga> so why provide distro packages
[01:32] <nosrednaekim> thanks!
[01:32] <uga> DaSkreech: now you follow me? :P
[01:33] <DaSkreech> uga: So IRC has a monopoly on developers?
[01:33] <uga> uhm?
[01:33] <DaSkreech> Have you spoken to apaku ?
[01:33] <nosrednaekim> this is open source we are talking about... why not make it easier on people who woul compile it just to see it?
[01:33] <uga> nosrednaekim: sure, if they can provide good feedback
[01:34] <DaSkreech> Cause not everyone has that time
[01:34] <DaSkreech> dipping toes allows you to get in when comfortable
[01:34] <uga> okay, I understand your point
[01:34] <DaSkreech> Hardcore devs will compile from SVN just cause
[01:35] <DaSkreech> those with jobs/mates/familes/lives may not have that impetus but seeing something nearly working will tip them over into adding suggestions/code/good valid bugs
[01:35] <uga> sorry, I was seeing these kde4 packs as oriented towards the average user
[01:35] <DaSkreech> uga: I don't see KDE 4.0 as aimed to the average user :-p
[01:35] <uga> I dont' see either. That's why I'm surprised about the .debs
[01:36] <uga> I can see many people expect too much from them
[01:36] <DaSkreech> Yes true but What does it hurt them?
[01:36] <uga> they may switch over to gnome, you know? =)
[01:36] <DaSkreech> and if it brings in one new dev or pair of eyeballs a week
[01:36] <uga> scared of the future :P
[01:37] <DaSkreech> uga: :-P Yeah good luck with that
[01:37] <nosrednaekim> they are warned of its quality, and quite frankly I haven't heard many serious complaints
[01:37] <nosrednaekim> (about fears for the future)
[01:39] <uga> shit, I was clicking on the close window icon, on my screenie
[01:39] <uga> I hate when screenies look exactly like one's desktop ;)
[01:40] <nosrednaekim> haha
[01:40] <uga> I may use gwenview in fullscreen mode to protect the desktop from unwanted users, hehe
[01:40] <DaSkreech> Ha ha
[01:41] <DaSkreech> wouldn't the preview in the pager give it away ?
[01:41] <uga> pager? what pager?
[01:41] <uga> even the systray is off the screen right now
[01:42] <DaSkreech> ah ok
[01:42] <uga> my kde4 pager doesn't show any previews
[01:42] <uga> and there's none on the desktop by default
[01:44] <nosrednaekim> uga: you are using kde4 now?
[01:44] <uga> yes
[01:44] <uga> nosrednaekim: the screenie I posted here is my current desktop
[01:45] <uga> you know... eat your own dog food
[01:46] <nosrednaekim> I must not have been around then....
[01:46] <uga> nosrednaekim: [02:19] <uga> in case you don't believe me: http://www.telefonica.net/web/ugarro/version.png
[01:46] <uga> when we were figuring out what version no. corresponded to what beta release
[01:48] <nosrednaekim> its easy.... add one to the beta version... divide by 100, and add 3.9
[01:48] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[01:48] <uga> lol
[01:48] <uga> nosrednaekim: well, I knew what it was, but bob didn't believe us ;)
[01:48] <nosrednaekim> E|:-}>
[01:49] <uga> nosrednaekim: and... no
[01:49] <uga> beta 4 isn't 3.94
[01:49] <uga> it's 3.95
[01:49] <uga> so your maths are off by 1 ;)
[01:50] <nosrednaekim> i said add *1*
[01:50] <uga> oh sorry, I missed that
[01:50] <nosrednaekim> :D
[01:50] <uga> I used sentence gap autocompletion... :P
[01:50] <nosrednaekim> yeah, I really should stop puctuating with periods like that
[01:51] <nosrednaekim> its almost as bad as Aaron's obsession with no capitals
[01:52] <nosrednaekim> uga: oooo you got compositing working :)
[01:53] <nosrednaekim> have to go,big test tomorrow, c ya
[01:59] <uga> uhm? doesn't compositing work for everyone?
[02:06] <DaSkreech> Nope
[02:06]  * DaSkreech kicks Live Cds
[02:15] <DaSkreech> Hey man
[02:23] <coreymon77> huh?
[02:23] <coreymon77> what did i miss
[02:25] <DaSkreech> coreymon77: Beta 3 bumping up a version number
[03:12] <DaSkreech> Jucato:  I recently read that one of the objectives in the roadmap for 8.04 was that Kubuntu had to catch up with all the features that Ubuntu offers. I hope that means that Kubuntu will get as much attention as Ubuntu gets.
[03:21] <nixternal> kde4pim is giving me a headache
[03:21] <nixternal> ahh, finially it configured
[03:25] <yuriy> DaSkreech: i don't think attention is a feature ;)
[03:26] <DaSkreech> ha ha :)
[03:26] <Jucato> nixternal!!!!!
[03:27] <Jucato> dang! I needed to catch up w/ you but I need to disappear now :(
[03:28] <nixternal> lovely
[03:28] <nixternal> I am trying to finish up the Beta 4 builds so I can sleep
[03:28] <nixternal> I have a silly busy day tomorrow :(
[03:29] <Jucato> nixternal: what's this I hear about you and .doc files? :)
[03:29] <nixternal> me?
[03:29] <nixternal> I don't think so
[03:30] <nixternal> if I send you a word processed file, it will be .tex
[03:30] <nixternal> I don't mess with no stinkin' .doc or .odf
[03:30] <nixternal> you have been talking with eddie
[03:30] <Jucato> to the chicago list?
[03:30]  * Jucato whistles innocently...
[03:30] <nixternal> ya, that was eddie :)
[03:31]  * Jucato wonders what a rodeo looks like...
[03:32] <nixternal> you need to stop listening to eddie
[03:32] <Jucato> hahaha
[03:32] <nixternal> he is bad for your health
[03:32] <Jucato> lol
[03:32] <Jucato> :D
[03:32] <nixternal> sucks too, I was supposed to go see a talk on Conary tomorrow
[03:33] <Jucato> aw...
[03:33] <Jucato> oh so its "Conary"...
[03:33] <Jucato> I kept on thinking in my head Coronary....
[03:33] <nixternal> I was planning, well myself and this DD Dirk, to show up and out package them
[03:33] <nixternal> hah, it will probably leard to a coronary
[03:33] <Jucato> haha
[03:34] <nixternal> man, kdepim takes longer than kdebase to build
[03:34] <Jucato> yes I've noticed that
[03:34] <Jucato> kdepim is by far, the longest
[03:35] <Jucato> kdepim > kdebase > kdelibs
[03:35] <nixternal> eddie is e.tarded
[03:36] <nixternal> he is complaining that there are no krecipes docs, and I know I edited them last year helping them out
[03:36] <Jucato> I'm sure you meant that in a loving way :)
[03:36] <nixternal> ya, he doesn't pay attention to recommends
[03:36] <nixternal> because there is krecipes-docs
[03:36] <Jucato> hahaha until recently, I didn't either
[03:36] <Jucato> but ever since the modification of kubuntu-desktop, I started paying attention to recommends
[03:37] <Jucato> oh krap, now I have to go... me and my mom are going to the mall... wonder what stuff I'd be able to buy :)
[03:37] <DaSkreech> Yay krecipe!
[03:37] <DaSkreech>  is that still alive ?
[03:37] <nixternal> muheheh, get some c++ books!
[03:37] <nixternal> DaSkreech: heck ya, it is the greatest app in the world
[03:37] <DaSkreech> Cool I have a Feature idea
[03:37] <DaSkreech> Mailing list I assume ?
[03:37] <Jucato> hope I can see an *updated* C++ book :)
[03:37] <Jucato> or maybe python..
[03:38] <Jucato> anyway... later!
[03:38] <nixternal> wait until I publish my coconut, walnut, chocolate chip cookie bars with a toffee and graham cracker crust!
[03:38] <DaSkreech> nixternal: on GHNS !
[03:39] <nixternal> I will be at GNHS tomorrow
[03:39] <DaSkreech> To quote one of theUpper class
[03:39] <DaSkreech> ThatsHawt!
[04:14] <DaSkreech> Anyone in #kde4-krush ?
[04:14] <yuriy> hey, maybe that's what i should do
[04:15] <yuriy> beta4 packages would help...
[04:16] <nixternal> DaSkreech: I almost forgot about that
[04:16] <nixternal> I am in there now
[04:16] <DaSkreech> Yup
[04:16] <nixternal> and I have 3 simultaneous KDE 4 builds going on
[04:16] <DaSkreech> I'm about to drop
[04:16] <DaSkreech> nixternal: See if the new devices notifier applet is still broken
[04:17] <yuriy> building kde4 would help me actually help with this...
[04:17] <yuriy> how long would it take?
[04:17] <DaSkreech> nixternal: And just kinda randomly open up apps and see if Ctrl+M works and if they ahve the option to remove the menu bar in the view menu
[04:17] <DaSkreech> nixternal: They should either have both or have none
[04:18] <DaSkreech> only set of obvious bugs I can think of right now
[04:20] <DaSkreech> You too yuriy :)
[04:20] <Riddell> scott says /win 28
[04:20] <Riddell> cool
[04:22] <yuriy> DaSkreech: me too what?
[04:22] <DaSkreech> yuriy: After youbuild kinda open random apps and see if it has a View -> remove menu bar
[04:23] <DaSkreech> If it does see if Ctrl+M works
[04:23] <DaSkreech> if it doesn'tthat's a bug
[04:23] <yuriy> well i haven't started building.. i don't really know where to start, actually
[04:23] <yuriy> it's getting late but depending on how long it takes i might give it a shot
[04:23] <DaSkreech> nixternal: ping
[04:24] <nixternal> yo
[04:24] <DaSkreech> How long to build KDE4
[04:24] <nixternal> couple of hours
[04:24] <DaSkreech> yuriy: You pulling code?
[04:24] <nixternal> kdepim takes forever
[04:24] <nixternal> Riddell: I will have ALL OF BETA 4 COMPLETE SOON!
[04:24] <Riddell> holy guacamole
[04:25] <nixternal> mmm guacamole
[04:25] <nixternal> I had Portillos hotdogs for dinner :)
[04:25] <DaSkreech> ha ha
[04:25] <DaSkreech> nixternal: funny that's my suggestion for Krecipe
[04:25] <nixternal> what is?
[04:25] <nixternal> portillos hot dogs?
[04:25]  * DaSkreech nods
[04:25] <nixternal> I think Dick Portillo would have you whacked
[04:26] <DaSkreech> I was doing a recipe for a hot dog type meal
[04:26] <DaSkreech> and thought Hey Krecipe could be better!
[04:26] <nixternal> I need to do my tequila shrimp recipe, and my tequila mahi mahi tacos
[04:27] <nixternal> I think we need to setup a SQL server where we can share our recipes
[04:27] <DaSkreech> They need to be able to flag ingredients as optional
[04:27] <DaSkreech> nixternal: No need
[04:27] <DaSkreech>  GHNS2 :)
[04:27] <nixternal> ok, fill me in, because that is the 2nd time you have said it, and I have no clue what you are talking about
[04:28] <nixternal> never mind, if I put the letters together, i get it
[04:28] <nixternal> get hot new stuff (I guess when it works) :)
[04:28] <DaSkreech> Yup :)
[04:29] <DaSkreech> annma and I have been preaching it for months now
[04:29] <yuriy> ok pulling *yawn*
[04:32] <DaSkreech> yuriy: well if the feathered bed calls as is mine pull and start the compile
[04:33] <DaSkreech>  AAron says that he may have these every saturday
[04:33] <DaSkreech>  that gives you a full days head start :)
[04:33] <DaSkreech> Or a week depending :)
[04:34] <DaSkreech> whoops
[04:34] <DaSkreech> aaron
[04:35] <DaSkreech>  no caps
[04:36] <yuriy> damn even a pull takes a while... maybe i shouldn't have done all modules
[06:23] <Serega> morning
[08:10] <mhb> good morning
[08:43] <mhb> interesting discussions in #ubuntu-devel this morning, although a bit depressing for some (like me)
[09:52] <Hobbsee> morning mhb
[09:52]  * Hobbsee wonders what it was
[09:53] <Czessi-m> morning
[09:54]  * buz is trying to figure out why hal wont send a new device message to kde when a device mapper storage device is added?
[09:56] <mhb> Hobbsee: some people complained about Kubuntu being unable to upgrade (which is a very common bug) and the Ubuntu developers being kind of oblivious about that
[09:57] <Hobbsee> ah
[09:57] <Hobbsee> well, it's hard to know about kubuntu stuff when it mostly happens in here
[09:57]  * Hobbsee is reading the log
[09:57] <mhb> Hobbsee: they don't really care as long as it doesn't affect Ubuntu or it is a (much money) paying customer, I guess. That is okay and perfectly understandable, but a bit depressing for me.
[09:59] <Hobbsee> nixternal: vista first, now gnome.  what next level will you fall to?
[09:59] <persia> Hi.  Is this a main-only space, or can I ask about packaging hints for universe KDE packages as well?
[10:00] <mhb> you can ask about whatever you like :o)
[10:00] <Hobbsee> hiya persia
[10:00]  * mhb is not a packager so he won't be of much use, though
[10:00] <Hobbsee> persia: anything kde is fine.
[10:01] <persia> Great!  I'm currently patching codeine for the libxine transition, and I can't get it to build.  scons complains kde-config is missing, and I should install kdebase-devel.  I'm not finding kdebase-devel in the apt-cache of my hardy chroot.  How should I work around that?
[10:03] <mhb> you have kdelibs4c2a ?
[10:03] <persia> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43102/ has a build log, in case that helps.
[10:03] <mhb> grep tells me kde-config is in there
[10:03] <persia> mhb: No (I'm not actually running KDE).  Thanks: apt-file wasn't so smart.
[10:05] <Hobbsee> kdelibs4-dev (>= 4:3.4.3), kdebase-dev (>= 4:3.4.3) would be where i'd guess
[10:05] <persia> mhb: Thanks.  That works.  Looks like I've a heap of scons errors to chase due to scons wanting all build-dependencies in order to run clean.
[10:06] <Hobbsee> the xinelib transition would also be going htru debian, wouldnt it?
[10:06] <persia> Hobbsee: Yes, but there was a request to do it quick, in part to test the efficacy of using malone to track transitions.  This is a special case, as it's not yet really transition focus time.
[10:07] <Hobbsee> ahhh...
[10:10] <Hobbsee> mhb: bigpick sounds *disturbingly* like cimmo in disguise.
[10:10] <Hobbsee> and i'm already aware that certain developers tend to avoid cimmo's bugs, as much as possibl.e
[10:11] <Hobbsee> impressive lots of dupes, though
[10:11] <mhb> Hobbsee: this one is really bad, I can tell from some discussion on my local Czech forums that people are really frustrated by it
[10:11] <Hobbsee> i dont doubt that
[10:11] <Hobbsee> i would be too, if i hit it.
[10:12] <mhb> Hobbsee: jr said rknight of konsole promised to look at it, so I'm kind of happy - the thing that saddened me was the attitude which would definitely be different if it affected Ubuntu
[10:12] <Hobbsee> indeed.
[10:12] <Hobbsee> kubuntu relies on mostly community people to get things fully fixed.
[10:15] <Hobbsee> mhb: this is part of the reason that i'm less inclined to do kubuntu development
[10:15] <Hobbsee> when we get hammered like this, for major, critical bugs, which should be fixed, but arent, and would be release blockers...
[10:16] <Hobbsee> i start to wonder if it's better to just make ubuntu better, and sideline kubuntu - or at least, give it some of the gtk tools, which actually work.
[10:16] <Hobbsee> shame of being a kubuntu developer, somewhat - becuase canonical just isnt giving the resources, yet promoting it as if they do.
[10:17] <Hobbsee> when mark was questioned on this kind of stuff, he sidestepped the question, and said that we were getting kde 4, and that wasnt in gnome.
[10:17] <Hobbsee> er, in ubuntu
[10:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: yeah, I understand that
[10:18] <mhb> I have similar thoughts from time to time, too.
[10:19] <Hobbsee> at this point, i'm running ubuntu, and i'm thinking of installing the kde4 metapackages when they come out
[10:19] <Hobbsee> at least, until canonical actually goes and hires others to get the distro into shape.
[10:20] <persia> Hobbsee: Must it be canonical?  Would a sufficiency of paid developers not meet your needs?
[10:20] <Hobbsee> persia: no, it wouldnt *have* to be canonical.
[10:21] <Hobbsee> a sufficiency of paid developers would, but we already have 2 who work on kubuntu as part of their jobs
[10:21] <mhb> KDE is still the environment I feel comfortable in, because of the (relatively) high-quality libraries and the KDE people attitude - like GNOME people insisting that the GNOME open dialog is perfect etc.
[10:21] <Hobbsee> i havent seen one commit patches recently, and the other ends up committing patches very rarely
[10:21] <Hobbsee> persia: if people are wanting to pay some devs, that'd be nice
[10:22] <persia> Another question about KDE packaging: what's the best practice to feed the Debian KDE Extras Team?
[10:23] <mhb> persia: we'd need a second millionaire to get devs - companies tend not to pay for support and invest into a KDE-based Ubuntu distribution even less
[10:25] <persia> mhb: Depends.  I know companies that pay the equivalent of a developer salary annually for OS support.  Just requires the right people working together.
[10:26] <Nightrose> hmm have you thought about making a puplic call for someone to sponsor a developer? I assume people "outside" don't know about the situation
[10:26] <Nightrose> if they did maybe they would be willing to pay for one
[10:26] <Hobbsee> persia: i'm assuming it's sending a diff to their email
[10:27] <mhb> Nightrose: no, we haven't thought about it.
[10:27] <mhb> Nightrose: unless Riddell is much against it, we might try and think about it at the next meeting.
[10:27] <Nightrose> mhb: then maybe you should ;-) - lot of nice things happened to amarok because of such calls ;-)
[10:27] <persia> Hobbsee: OK.  I've just never worked with that team, and some teams don't like that sort of thing (especially for 1 line diffs that match existing BTS bugs)
[10:28] <Hobbsee> persia: i'm unsure
[11:02] <buz> could one get funding from the trolls? i imagine they might like to have a community driven distro that takes kde serious now that suse is in novell land?
[11:05] <buz> plus aseigo occasionally posts about that kde on consumer electronics stuff
[11:05] <buz> they will need a good distro to base it on
[11:06] <jpatrick> I thought we didn't want the trolls..
[11:06] <jpatrick> ;)
[11:07] <buz> we dont want the feet
[11:07] <buz> (else wed be using ubuntu ;)
[11:08] <buz> mozilla seems to get quite some cash from that google deal, maybe something similar could be done
[11:17] <mhb> buz: well, provided we had a marketing branch...
[11:17] <Serega> Hi, all
[11:17] <mhb> hi Serega
[11:17] <mhb> it is all a bit complex, what would Canonical say if we actively sought financial help from other parties?
[11:18] <mhb> would they allow it? Would they backstab us for that (like dropping Kubuntu from the list of LiveCDs they send, or a similar thing)
[11:18] <buz> provided it doesnt affect canonical they'd probably allow it, the uproar it could cause would be too bad to risk
[11:18] <Nightrose> mhb: sabdfl at least always says canonical is just one company providing financial support for ubuntu - there could be others as well
[11:19] <Nightrose> dunno if that is only marketingspeak to shut up critics though
[11:19] <Nightrose> would be your turn to test it ;-)
[11:19] <mhb> Riddell should have more information about that, we should ask him
[11:20] <Nightrose> yep
[11:20] <buz> technically, i dont really see how it hinders canonical if someone else is being paid to work on kubuntu
[11:20] <buz> if anything, it helps them
[11:21] <buz> besides, from their view, there's hardly a difference between a guy who is being paid and a volunteer?
[11:21] <Nightrose> hmm wouldn't say so...
[11:21] <Nightrose> there is definitly
[11:21] <buz> how
[11:21]  * mhb has to go now, see you guys later
[11:21] <mhb> and keep on discussing this .o)
[11:22] <Nightrose> well it is someone being paid by another company most likely acting in the interest of that company on certain decissions
[11:22] <Nightrose> bye bye mhb ;-)
[11:22] <buz> that may be the case
[11:22] <buz> however, canonical cant even tell if $randomcontributor is being paid by anyone
[11:23] <Nightrose> right
[11:23] <Nightrose> not saying the will have a problem with that - just that this might come to their mind
[11:23] <buz> it would be a great test to see just how opensource minded canonical really is
[11:23] <Nightrose> indeed
[11:24] <Serega> mhb: bye
[11:24] <buz> truth to be told i'm not entirely sure about it
[11:24] <buz> on the other hand, they have done stuff like setting up those entirely free branches
[11:25] <Nightrose> hmm
[11:25] <buz> if the dev was funded by the community, canonical couldnt do jack
[11:25] <Nightrose> hehe
[11:26] <buz> not without ruining their image, anyway
[11:26] <buz> or maybe one could bundle openwengo and get some money if people use it?
[11:26] <buz> it does seem like a decent app
[11:27] <Nightrose> tbh the only time I used it it crapped out on me...
[11:28] <Nightrose> couldn't even log in
[11:28] <buz> weird
[11:29] <buz> plus anything that battles skype is good in my book
[11:29] <Nightrose> hehe mumble ftw
[11:29] <Nightrose> we have been using skype for amarok meetings all the time because all the open stuff just didn't work
[11:29] <Nightrose> then we found mumble... ;-)
[11:30] <Nightrose> heya apachelogger
[11:31] <apachelogger> ahoy Nightrose
[11:31]  * apachelogger understands that Nightrose is doing a promo tour for mumble
[11:31] <Nightrose> haha sort of
[11:32] <Nightrose> we have discussed ways to get a sponsored dev for kubuntu and somehow came to openwengo ;-)
[11:33]  * leinirlogger loves wengo
[11:34] <leinirlogger> even though it's not working most of the time, and if it does it crashes at some point
[11:34] <Nightrose> sure you do *g*
[11:34] <leinirlogger> plus it messed my profile up
[11:34] <Nightrose> right
[11:34] <leinirlogger> still... I like it
[11:34] <Nightrose> hehe
[11:58] <jpatrick> any core-devs around to help me get a new kmplayer? (merge too)
[12:04] <Hobbsee> mhb: i dont think it's canonical's domain.
[12:05] <Hobbsee> mhb: the ubuntu foundation owns the trademarks, etc, and has the final say - thru the tech board
[12:06] <Hobbsee> mhb: canonical does not appear to be screwing over MOTU by getting more involved - i doubt they would attempt to screw over kubuntu either
[12:32] <jpatrick> apachelogger: any packages you want seeing to? :)
[12:33] <apachelogger> nope
[12:33] <apachelogger> gotta find some 2nd advocates first
[12:34] <apachelogger> Mez is somewhat mute lately ;-)
[12:34] <jpatrick> tried posting on the ubuntu-motu mailing list?
[12:35] <apachelogger> now that sounds like a good idea ;-)
[12:35] <apachelogger> Nightrose: remind me on doing that before 7pm
[12:35] <apachelogger> today is partE again... -.-
[12:35] <Nightrose> will do apachelogger
[13:04] <begert> anyone know if there is an RSS feed or something to for the commit log of the KDE4 branch?
[13:06] <Nightrose> begert: had a look at http://cia.vc ?
[13:06] <apachelogger> begert: you can get mails... http://commitfilter.kde.org/
[13:07] <begert> awesome, thanks guyz
[13:29] <apachelogger> jpatrick: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=kopete-plugin-thinklight have fun ;-)
[13:33] <jpatrick> apachelogger: mit Lust ;)
[13:34] <apachelogger> this doesn't sound right :P
[13:34] <apachelogger> Nightrose: is it, or is it not?
[13:34] <Nightrose> well - it sounds unnatural
[13:34] <Nightrose> ;-)
[13:34] <jpatrick> with pleasure? :/
[13:34] <Nightrose> mit Vergnügen
[13:34] <apachelogger> jpatrick: mit Freude
[13:34] <jpatrick> that's joy
[13:34] <jpatrick> but, oh well
[13:35] <apachelogger> right
[13:35] <apachelogger> Nightrose's is better
[13:35] <Nightrose> ;-)
[13:35]  * apachelogger is bad with languages :P
[13:35] <Nightrose> hehe
[13:35] <Nightrose> jpatrick: where are you from if I may ask?
[13:35] <apachelogger> speaking far too many but none right :P
[13:36] <Nightrose> :-P
[13:36] <jpatrick> Nightrose: London
[13:36] <Nightrose> ah nice
[13:36] <jpatrick> but right now I am located in Spain
[13:37] <apachelogger> Nightrose: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/On-Desktop-Logs?content=68923 isn't that what you packaged? just less functional?
[13:38] <Nightrose> jep similar - klogshow was the one i did
[13:38] <Nightrose> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KlogShow?content=53460 this one
[13:39] <apachelogger> yeah
[13:39] <apachelogger> well
[13:39] <apachelogger> redundancy--
[13:39] <Nightrose> indeed
[13:39]  * apachelogger is going to do such a thing in ruby
[13:39] <Nightrose> hehe
[13:39] <apachelogger> so that someone can port it to python then -.-
[13:39]  * apachelogger starts repackaging of kirocker
[13:40] <jpatrick> apachelogger: I struggle choosing between Ruby and Python
[13:41] <apachelogger> jpatrick: doesn't matter much... Qt bindings seem to be better for python
[13:41] <apachelogger> still I find ruby better understandable than python
[13:42] <jpatrick> and there's peer pressure from Ubuntu's preference to Python
[13:43] <apachelogger> well, since I got peer pressure from Amarok before I even joined the ubuntu forces... :P
[13:44] <Nightrose> peer pressure ftw ;-)
[13:44] <Nightrose> naahh not really...
[13:45] <apachelogger> jpatrick: 3.99.2 or 3.99+beta2?
[13:45] <jpatrick> apachelogger: I'd do 3.98+3.99beta2 personally
[13:46] <apachelogger> ye know, that number is hell confusing :P
[13:46] <apachelogger> dpkg really needs better unstanding of pre-release tags
[13:50] <jpatrick> oh, right, k3b sees my ogg's as mp3s...
[13:59] <jpatrick> apachelogger: long desc exceeds 80 spaces
[13:59] <apachelogger> really? Oo
[13:59] <jpatrick> the "-e"
[14:00] <apachelogger> sort of strange
[14:00] <apachelogger> in kate the e is right before the 80 sings marker ligne thingy
[14:00] <jpatrick> ah, it's because of the + thing
[14:00] <jpatrick> sorry
[14:01] <apachelogger> ha :P
[14:01] <apachelogger> hooray I broke my kirocker package -.-
[14:04] <bddebian> Heya
[14:06] <apachelogger> ahoy bddebian
[14:09] <bddebian> Hi apachelogger
[14:54] <jpatrick> imbrandon: ping?
[15:59] <Serega> does anybody know where to get gutsy CD covers preferably in PDF?
[15:59] <Serega> I was googling about 2 hours :(
[16:21] <nixternal> Hobbsee: hardee har har
[16:22] <Hobbsee> nixternal: :P
[16:23] <Riddell> mhb: other companies are welcome to sponsor kubuntu
[16:23] <Riddell> Serega: I don't think the artwork is available
[16:23] <Serega> :(
[16:23] <Riddell> no reason why it couldn't be though
[16:23] <Serega> Riddell: I wondered
[16:24] <Riddell> I can ask for it next week
[16:24] <Serega>  I just want to spread downloaded kubuntu in more representative view
[16:24] <Serega> Riddell: thanks
[16:25] <Riddell> kubuntu.org/art might have old stuff
[16:25] <nixternal> Riddell: hahaha, did you see the bug post to the dot?
[16:27] <apachelogger> nixternal: considering you have some time, could you please have a look at: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=squash
[16:38] <nixternal> apachelogger: I will upload it here after the build...looks good thus far
[16:39] <apachelogger> nixternal: thanks :)
[16:45] <Riddell> nixternal: nope
[16:48]  * Jucato briefly waves to Riddell, nixternal, Hob
[16:48] <Jucato> oh she's gone...
[16:48] <seele> no love for seele
[16:48] <Jucato> ooh seele!!! :)
[16:49]  * Jucato gives B-Blogger seele a virtual hug
[16:49] <seele> lol
[16:49] <seele> thanks
[16:52] <nixternal> apachelogger: uploaded
[16:52]  * Jucato drowns nixternal with his waves
[16:52]  * nixternal is annoyed with PPA FTBS
[16:52]  * nixternal rips off Jucato's hand and waves back with it :p
[16:52] <Jucato> Failed To Build (fro) Source?
[16:52] <Jucato> from*
[16:52] <Jucato> hehe :)
[16:52] <nixternal> you got it
[16:52] <Jucato> soyuz? :)
[16:53] <nixternal> if that is what is running PPA
[16:53]  * Jucato was just guessing... or trying to put the blame on something other than himself
[17:45] <jjesse> HELLLLO
[17:45] <jjesse> wow caps lock was on
[17:45] <jjesse> sorry bout that
[17:46] <nosrednaekim> :D
[17:53] <nixternal> howdy from KDE 4!
[17:53] <jjesse> yay?
[17:53] <jjesse> nixternal: i can't logout of my kde4 session can you?
[17:53] <nixternal> ya, we are doing the Krush days for KDE 4 right now...bug squashing
[17:53] <jjesse> Krush days?
[17:53] <nixternal> I can logout of mine, I can lock it, and I can run KDE 3 and KDE 4 simultaneously
[17:53] <jjesse> wow asesome
[17:54] <nixternal> ya, it is there version of hug days
[17:54] <yuriy> bug in amarok: play song, hit pause, put in a cd and say to play with amarok, amarok continues playing the paused song while populating the playlist and stillsaying it's paused
[17:55] <nixternal> yuriy: amarok won't even start up for me now
[17:56] <yuriy> nixternal: kde3
[17:57] <yuriy> i wasn't testing, i was just playing a cd
[17:57] <yuriy> not quite as far as building amarok 2 yet
[17:57] <yuriy> on kdebase now
[17:57] <nixternal> oh
[18:11] <mhb> evening
[18:11] <nosrednaekim> hey mhb
[18:11] <jjesse> evening mhb
[18:12] <mhb> hi jjesse, has uds ended already?
[18:12] <mhb> are you home?
[18:12] <jjesse> mhb: yes, and i'm back home
[18:13] <jjesse> flew home last night
[18:14] <mhb> good to hear
[18:14] <jjesse> yeah, it was a great week, learned a lot and met a ton of great people
[18:16] <mhb> jjesse: yeah, I wish I was there, too :o(
[18:17] <jjesse> don't take me wrong, it is awesome being home, but i had a fun time
[18:28] <nixternal> jjesse: so are we planning on anything new this go round?
[18:29] <nixternal> I didn't even get a chance to participate online...but then again, probably wasn't much need for me to participate
[18:29] <nixternal> man, this kde4artwork upload is taking forever
[18:29] <nixternal> and it is obviously hogging what little bandwidth I have right now, as irssi is showing a 2s lag
[19:28] <nixternal> Riddell: I see another new package with beta 4...kdebindings
[19:28] <nixternal> you want to hit that one up?
[19:29] <mhb> any late night topic to chat?
[19:29] <nixternal> none that I can think of
[19:41] <mhb> Lure: around?
[19:41] <Lure> mhb: yep, seen that even new packages do not help you
[19:42] <Lure> :-(
[19:42] <Lure> not sure what is going on wrong here...
[19:42] <Lure> mhb: do you have "battery" button?
[19:42] <mhb> I guess I don't
[19:42] <mhb> just brightness controls
[19:43] <mhb> Lure: no, they don't, but I'd like to do more to help me help you help us all :o)
[19:43] <Lure> mhb: I have battery key and it works w/o problem and implementation in kmilo is same as for brightness (just different dcop function)
[19:44] <mhb> volume works well, but brightness simply doesn't
[19:44] <Lure> mhb: currently I do not have much ideas, maybe _StefanS_ has some
[19:44] <Lure> mhb: he did try to fix this just before release and also had problems
[19:44] <_StefanS_> uhm yep.
[19:44] <_StefanS_> it didn't really worked stable enough
[19:45] <Lure> _StefanS_: so it worked sometime for you?
[19:45] <_StefanS_> meaning it didnt always react, and when it did it was slow
[19:45] <_StefanS_> yes
[19:45] <Lure> strange: I have test binaries in my ppa and all reportes (cca 3-4 of them) claim that it does not work
[19:45] <_StefanS_> I patched the ... cant remember but it was the solution that mhb or you suggested
[19:45] <Lure> even though that dcop call itself works for them correctly...
[19:46] <Lure> _StefanS_: yep, I did the same for test packages, as I though that your problem might be just dell specifici (kernel issue - there is separate bug for it), but there is more
[19:46] <_StefanS_> I have both a dell and thinkpad, neither worked stable with that patch :(
[19:54] <mhb> Lure: where can I get the sources you work on?
[19:54] <mhb> I'd like to take a peek into them and see if my l33t sk11lz could help .o)
[19:54] <Lure> mhb: sure, you can either get them from my ppa or I can upload debdiff somewhere...
[19:54] <mhb> I'll try to get them from the ppa
[19:55] <mhb> do you patch both kdelibs and kdebase?
[19:55] <Lure> mhb: debdiff is really short, will upload it somewhere
[19:55] <mhb> thanks!
[19:58] <Lure> mhb: http://muse.19inch.net/~lure/gutsy/kdebase.debdiff
[19:58] <Lure> mhb: http://muse.19inch.net/~lure/gutsy/kdeutils.debdiff
[19:59] <Lure> mhb: as you can see, it is just copy&paste of battery button code, that work for me
[20:09] <mhb> mhm, thanks
[20:09] <mhb> D - E - B - U - G ... I like that song :o)
[20:11] <mhb> Lure: can I launch kded_kmilod standalone?
[20:11] <mhb> it gives me segfaults when I do
[20:11] <Lure> mhb: no, but you can kill kded and start it again
[20:12] <Lure> mhb: it should not have much side-effects (kwallet primarily and mediamanager)
[20:12] <mhb> hmm, I cannot really watch the debug messages, can I?
[20:13] <Lure> mhb: it looks like it daemonizes immediately... :-(
[20:20] <mhb> Riddell: you even worked on KMilo? You really had fingers in everything :o)
[20:22] <Lure> mhb: he is author of kmilo_thinkpad module I think ;-)
[20:22] <Lure> mhb: maybe you just need to compile it with debugs (then kdDebug statements would do something)
[20:25] <nixternal> is it me, or has compiz-kde become so unreliable
[20:25] <fdoving> nixternal: been unreliable for a while.. yeah.
[20:26] <fdoving> i'm back at plain kwin, k-w-d crashing on me every now and then is so annoying.
[20:26] <nixternal> man, it either a) locks up, b) crashes back out to kdm, c) doesn't allow apps to startup, d) puts all kinds of little windows up (adept_update and klipper)
[20:28] <fdoving> yeah.
[20:34] <mhb> Lure: strange, kmilo segfaults on my computer when I compiled it myself
[20:34] <mhb> [ 1961.782026] kded_kmilod[26092]: segfault at 0000000000000001 rip 0000000000000001 rsp 00007fff53d1f368 error 14
[20:35] <Lure> mhb: that is strange... do you build in pbuilder?
[20:35] <mhb> Lure: no, I build it like the old cavemen did, via configure/make/make install
[20:35] <Lure> mhb: did you apply all patches from debian/patches?
[20:36] <mhb> ah, forgot that
[20:41] <crimsun_> hmm.
[20:41] <crimsun_> I've searched Launchpad, but I can't find anything useful regarding a "could not start kstartupconfig" error in Kubuntu 7.10
[20:42] <jpatrick> I think that's cos of a PATH error
[20:42] <crimsun_> jpatrick: any additional detail available?
[20:42]  * jpatrick got it when he misconfigured his brothers accounts on their computer
[20:43] <jpatrick> crimsun_: check the users $PATH basically
[20:43] <crimsun_> ok, I'll relay.  Thanks.
[20:44] <jpatrick> crimsun_: oh yeah, and the groups they're in
[20:44] <nixternal> only a couple of more packages to go for beta 4
[20:45] <jpatrick> crimsun_: just doing "useradd" and logging in to KDE, doesn't work, they have to be at least in the default groups
[20:49] <mhb> Lure: I can't really compile a thing :o) your kdebase fails patching at some freebsd (?) patch, and I can't build kdeutils - some crazy error with ld returning error status
[20:49] <mhb> :-(
[20:49] <mhb> kmilod still keeps segfaulting here
[20:50] <Lure> mhb: you do not need to patch kdebase -> only change is text file you can do in place on your system or even with simple: xmodmap -e 'keycode 101 = XF86Launch2'
[20:50] <Lure> mhb: you just need to compile kmilo
[20:51] <Lure> mhb: what is error on kdeutils - can you paste?
[20:52] <mhb> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43169/plain/
[20:53] <Lure> mhb: that is strange... :-(
[20:57] <mhb> yeah, no sane error message
[20:57] <mhb> I'll try reconfiguring
[21:33] <mhb> Lure: now I managed to build it
[21:36] <mhb> Lure: but kmilo still segfaults at kded restart
[21:39] <nixternal> KOffice 2 is looking sharp
[21:45] <mhb> by the way, thanks to those invisible "great new" theme upgrades in GMail, Konqueror doesn't work with it yet again
[22:40] <toma> hi, i'm receiving kde build failures in my mailbox, but i'm not really interested in them. can i turn that off?
[22:42] <mhb> toma: filter them? I think the whole team gets them, not sure if it can be turned off by individuals.
[22:43] <toma> mhb: ah it goes to the team
[22:43] <mhb> I just disregard them, an extra email never hurt my inbox :o)
[22:46] <toma> mhb: I'm not active anymore, so it might be better to leave that team, or something in between
[22:47] <toma> can i be inactive or something?
[22:48] <mhb> I don't really know LP details that much
[22:48] <mhb> sorry
[22:49] <toma> np, i left the team
[22:49] <toma> i'll re-apply when needed ;-)
[22:53] <mhb> another developer left us... :-(
[22:56] <nixternal> hey toma, I have a feeling that mailody may disappear from the repos now :p
[22:56]  * nixternal wonders if you are sick and tired of that joke already from me :)
[22:57] <nixternal> hey toma, speaking of mailody, how is looking for kde 4?
[22:57] <toma> not at all, actually i wanted to ask why it would be removed ;-)
[22:57] <toma> so you got me again ;-)
[22:57] <nixternal> hehe
[22:57] <toma> please dont ask about mailody4
[22:57] <nixternal> I think I have you now threatened with mailody removal in kubuntu, debian, and kde
[22:57] <nixternal> I might have to slip over to mandriva next to threaten you there :p
[22:58] <toma> nixternal: actually, i'm at moment entering a bug report at mandriva to ask for inclusion
[22:58] <toma> nixternal: are you reading my mind again?
[22:58] <nixternal> haha
[22:58] <nixternal> no, but I know where you were heading :)
[22:59] <toma> i can't seem to keep secrets with you
[22:59] <nixternal> lol
[22:59] <nixternal> well I can tell you this, a lot of my buddies that use IMAP, are using Mailody
[22:59] <nixternal> even on Gnome and Xfce
[23:00] <toma> are they?
[23:00] <toma> cool.
[23:00] <nixternal> ya, they either aren't happy with kmail and IMAP or evolution and IMAP
[23:00] <toma> kmail and imap is not very popular nowadays
[23:02] <nixternal> I had seen rumors flying about it possibly one day replacing kmail
[23:03] <toma> yeah, i keep calling them silly, but they still popup regularry
[23:03] <toma> how - in gods name - can it replace kmail? It lacks functions - and most of all POP support
[23:04] <nixternal> ya, they say when it gets the pop support it is on :)
[23:04] <toma> no, it will not replace kmail ever
[23:05] <toma> kmail will stay for a while
[23:05] <toma> anyhow, the discussion is useless anyway, everyone can use what he wants
[23:05] <nixternal> would be nice to see mailody in Kontact though
[23:05] <nixternal> exactly
[23:06] <toma> i have seen mailody in kontact ;-)
[23:06] <nixternal> oh
[23:06] <nixternal> that would make it the cat's meow for sure
[23:06] <toma> and i deleted it again
[23:07] <toma> it had so much bugs that i needed a couple of months to fix it (or kontact).
[23:07] <toma> when there are more devels i might try again
[23:07] <toma> for kde4 the code is cleaner, so it might be easier
[23:08] <nixternal> once I get some of these personal tasks complete, I will hop back on a little more
[23:08] <mhb> nixternal: I need your opinion, can I PM?
[23:08] <nixternal> mhb: sure...give me a couple of minutes...I need to help the neighbor
[23:08] <toma> currently the development has stopped, i've no motivation