[00:32] <blueyed> Does anybody know where the list of mime types for "File Associations" in kcontrol comes from?
[00:33] <blueyed> I'm wondering why application/x-dia-diagram does not show up there (from dia). It has a desktop file and a file in /usr/lib/mime/packages
[00:41] <blueyed> oh well.. it does not actually contain a desktop file - this may fix it.
[00:54] <daskreech> Wow
[00:54] <daskreech> #debian are a bunch of jerks
[01:25] <blueyed> ok. actually dia ships a desktop file, in dia-common and it gets installed.. I've no clue anymore, what may be wrong. I think I'll just file a bug about it.
[02:00] <daskreech> Wait hold up
[02:00] <daskreech> Koffice is synching with us?
[02:18] <blueyed> Just in case someone is following my MIME experiences: the solution appears to be installing an appropriate file into /usr/share/mimelnk/application for x-dia-diagram (LP bug 159870). I'll stop about it here now.. :)
[02:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 159870 in dia "MIME type not registered in KDE3" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159870
[03:49]  * Jucato waves to Hobbsee
[03:49] <Hobbsee> hiya Jucato!
[03:50] <Jucato> how's your sunday? and how's gnome doing? :)
[03:52] <yuriy> Hobbsee: you're working on gnome now?
[03:52] <Hobbsee> just got home from work
[03:52] <Hobbsee> yuriy: i'm using ubuntu at the moment, yes
[04:00] <nixternal> kde4bindings is killing me with the usr/lib/kde4/share/
[04:00] <nixternal> howdy Hobbsee
[04:00] <nixternal> Hobbsee: Jucato
[04:00] <nixternal> good work today yuriy
[04:00] <Jucato> nixternal!!!!
[04:00] <Jucato> my body is killling me today :/
[04:00] <nixternal> Kubuntu team was in effect today krushing bugs
[04:00] <nixternal> that isn't good
[04:01]  * Jucato thinks he'll just fall down and sleep the whole afternoon away...
[04:01] <Hobbsee> nixternal: nice!
[04:01] <Jucato> oh kool yuriy did all the adept bugs? yay!!!
[04:01]  * Jucato scratches it off this todo list
[04:10] <yuriy> nixternal: i don't think i did anything
[04:11] <yuriy> Jucato: he's referring to kde4-krush
[04:11] <Jucato> ah wow :)
[04:11] <Jucato> nice job then! :)
[04:11] <yuriy> ...excep that i didn't do anything, except build it so now i have new toys to play with
[04:11] <yuriy> and absolutely no hard drive space
[04:11] <Jucato> well at least you were there :)
[04:12]  * Jucato deliberately wasn't
[04:12] <nixternal> heh
[04:12] <yuriy> and actually i just figured out that that's why koffice wasn't building
[04:14] <yuriy> now built. the text flow in kword 2.0 is really awesome
[04:15] <Jucato> :(
[04:15] <Jucato> er... :)
[04:33] <dasKreech> Koffice are tracking us now?
[04:33] <dasKreech> drink
[04:34] <dasKreech> dang it :)
[06:42]  * Hobbsee sighs at gnome
[07:08] <Serega> morning
[07:09] <Hobbsee> morning Serega
[07:09] <dasKreech> Hello
[08:16] <Serega> Riddell: John, could you give me an advice?
[08:17] <Hobbsee> i doubt he's around
[08:18] <Hobbsee> they all got hte weekend off
[08:18] <Serega> oh...
[08:18] <Serega> Hobbsee: and can I ask you for advice?
[08:19] <Hobbsee> depends what it's for :)
[08:21] <Serega> it is a general question. :) What do you use as a primary IDE?
[08:22] <Hobbsee> vim :)
[08:24] <Hobbsee> occasionally kate
[08:27] <Serega> good
[08:27] <Serega> so are you debugging via plain gdb?
[08:29] <Serega> s/are you debugging/do you debug :)
[09:38] <mhb> Jucato: poke
[09:39] <mhb> Jucato: http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/11/03/fedora-8-rc-3/#comment-39959 I guess you're the one who is referred to, so you might want to read it
[09:59] <Jucato> mhb: thanks. I'll read it later
[11:27] <buz> jpatrick: kryptomedia doesnt work because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-mount/+bug/156285
[11:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156285 in gnome-mount "LUKS partition mounted to /dev/mapper, but not to /media" [Undecided,New]
[11:28] <buz> and also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-mount/+bug/148003
[11:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 148003 in gnome-mount "mounting Luks encrypted USB-HDD does not work reliably" [Undecided,New]
[11:28] <jpatrick> hmm
[11:29] <buz> i.e. i get the device mapper just like i should
[11:29] <buz> but then it's not being mounted from there
[11:35] <buz> btw, if you want to try, creating a luks volume is simple
[11:36] <buz> cryptsetup luksFormat /dev/yourdevice
[11:36] <buz> cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/yourdevice yourdevice
[11:36] <buz> will create /dev/mapper/yourdevice
[11:36] <jpatrick> I could try it on my usb
[11:36] <buz> which can be used like any block device (i.e. needs be formatted first ;)
[11:37] <jpatrick> damn, I removed qtparted yesterday
[11:38] <buz> unless you want to repartition your usb stick you wont need it
[11:39] <jpatrick> any partition can be made into a LUKS?
[11:42] <buz> yeah
[11:42] <buz> it will be trashed
[11:42] <buz> (obviously)
[11:42]  * jpatrick trashes usb
[11:42]  * buz should get a new usb stick
[11:43] <buz> 256mb promotional just doesnt cut it ;)
[11:45] <mhb> buz: yeah, 16GB is a bit different but 256MB is ideal for your encrypted keys, etc.
[11:45] <buz> was thinking about 22EUR 4GB corsair stick
[11:45] <buz> its pretty large, but in soft plastic looks sturdy
[11:46] <buz> or maybe i should get the 55EUR 8GB one as that would fit my whole home
[11:46] <jpatrick> I don't have that  cryptsetup
[11:46] <buz> its in the repos ;)
[11:46] <buz> might also need to do sudo modprobe dm-crypt
[11:47] <jpatrick> hmm, kde-luks package won't work here
[11:47] <buz> if you do dpkg --force-all it will ;9
[11:48] <jpatrick> yeah, but it breaks due to HAL deps
[11:48] <buz> no it works
[11:48] <buz> pw dialog comes up just fine under gutsy once you forced installing it
[11:51] <jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43243/ hmm
[11:51] <buz> did you modprobe dm-crypt?
[11:51] <buz> oh yeah you did
[11:52] <jpatrick> ;)
[11:52] <buz> you must type YES
[11:52] <buz> not Yes ;)
[11:52] <jpatrick> ahh
[11:52] <jpatrick> ok done
[11:53] <buz> (i very much recommend to have usb sticks compressed btw ;)
[11:53] <buz> unless you plan on using it on other pcs
[11:54] <buz> at which point it becomes a nuisance quickly
[11:54] <buz> btw, FreeOTFE can read luks volumes under windows
[11:55] <jpatrick> ok, now I can't open the usb
[11:55] <buz> ?
[11:56] <jpatrick> now, it doesn't appear under media:/
[11:56] <buz> yeah
[11:56] <buz> that's the issue ;)
[11:56] <buz> what happens when you un- and replug the stick?
[11:56] <jpatrick> that^
[11:56] <buz> weird
[11:56] <jpatrick> before it said superbad block
[11:57] <buz> did you crypsetup luksOpen and then newfs it?
[11:57] <jpatrick> newfs?
[11:57] <buz> luksFormat creates an empty volume
[11:57] <buz> it needs a filesystem inside
[11:57] <jpatrick> "sudo cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdb1 /dev/sdb1" <- is that the right command?
[11:57] <buz> just name for the second argument
[11:58] <buz> ie sdb1
[11:58] <buz> it will then appear in /dev/mapper/
[11:58] <buz> where it can be used like any other device
[11:58] <jpatrick> yep, it's there
[11:59] <buz> now i guess mkfs.ext3 /dev/mapper/sdb1 or so would be in order
[11:59] <buz> (just remebered that newfs is bsd speak ;)
[11:59] <buz> after which you can mount it
[12:00] <jpatrick> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43244/ is that good?
[12:00] <jpatrick> also says: Warning: could not erase sector 2: Attempt to write block from filesystem resulted in short write
[12:01] <buz> looks good to me
[12:02] <buz> never saw the warning so not sure what i means
[12:02] <jpatrick> and now I mount as?
[12:02] <buz> mount /dev/mapper/sdb1 somemountpoint
[12:04] <jpatrick> for some reason it's renamed itself to sdc1
[12:04] <buz> thats weird
[12:06] <buz> lol i wondered why my system was so slow
[12:06] <buz> turns out it was set to powersave
[12:06] <buz> meaning the cpu runs at 800 instead of 2000mhz
[12:08] <jpatrick> I have to run at powersave to shut up the fan
[12:09] <buz> mine wont shut up even then
[12:09] <buz> or not all the time
[12:09] <buz> dell is being a bit braindead, wtf the fan needs to run at 38° i dont really understand
[12:10] <buz> but i have have headphones on anyway so it doesnt bother me much
[12:10] <jpatrick> mine's suffered from multiple pbuilds.
[12:18] <jpatrick> sorry about that
[12:18] <jpatrick> forgot I set the Compiz fire button to "C"
[12:19] <buz> LOL
[12:19] <jpatrick> buz: but yeah, the dialog came up and accepted the password
[12:19] <buz> now you have a device in /dev/mapper right?
[12:19] <buz> but not mounted
[12:19] <jpatrick> no it said pass for /dev/sdc1
[12:20] <jpatrick> but there is a luks_crypto_67cf246d-b501-4952-8f75-ef0a5f349e67 there
[12:20] <buz> yeah thats the mapping it sets up
[12:20] <buz> you can mount that
[12:20] <buz> but it doesnt mount it automatically
[12:20] <buz> which would be the point imho ;)
[12:21] <buz> i think it's hal's job to mount the mapped drive
[12:21] <jpatrick> what's the fs mount command?
[12:22] <buz> yeah if i could figure that out
[12:24] <jpatrick> hmm lunch
[12:29] <nosrednaekim> ehh... not bad,, http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/21625
[12:32] <mhb> nosrednaekim: I wonder what is so easy to set up on that PCLinuxOS
[12:32] <mhb> nosrednaekim: is it the fact that they simply don't care about codecs' license, so they ship them all?
[12:32] <nosrednaekim> mhb: mostly its that they have a yast-like control center
[12:33] <nosrednaekim> and that... yes
[12:33] <mhb> that would be Mandriva's CC, right?
[12:34] <nosrednaekim> yeah
[12:35] <nosrednaekim> I installed it once, but I didn't like it because 1)there wern't enough packages... 2) Tekstar bugged me... 3) it didn't recognize my camera
[12:36] <mhb> I wonder if SUSE and Mandriva finally "get it" one day and start producing modules for kcontrol
[12:36] <mhb> so we all can share our configuration tools
[12:37] <nosrednaekim> tht would be nice..
[12:37] <nosrednaekim> except suse is a Gnome company too.
[12:37] <nosrednaekim> but Madriva if I remember correctly is KDE
[12:38] <nosrednaekim> so they should do that...
[12:38] <Jucato> it has GNOME was well. and remember that it's only until opensuse 10.3 that YaST finally has a GTK port
[12:38] <nosrednaekim> oh really? thats interesting.
[12:39] <Jucato> suse was completely KDE iirc, until it was bought by Novell and Novell bought Ximian
[12:39] <Jucato> (but then again, YaST was closed source until Novell opened it...)
[12:39] <Tm_T> yu
[12:39] <Tm_T> though kwwii might know more details ;)
[12:40] <mhb> indeed, suse was a german company concentrating on KDE back in the day
[12:41] <nosrednaekim> Kubuntu does have most of the configuration modules that PClinuxOS has.
[12:41] <Jucato> oh and MCC is completely GTK :)
[12:41] <mhb> but it was bought by Novell, and one of the company chiefs is Miguel de Icaza, the GNOME founder.
[12:41] <Jucato> (drakconf)
[12:41] <nosrednaekim> at least all of the commonly used ones
[12:41] <Jucato> oh Novell bought Redcarpet/Ximian before it bought SuSE?
[12:42] <mhb> yes, AFAIK.
[12:42] <mhb> wikipedia might know better than me.
[12:42] <Jucato> ah... Embrace, Extend, Extinguish :P
[12:42] <Jucato> GNOME style
[12:42] <Jucato> j/k
[12:43] <nosrednaekim> the MCC is gtk?lol
[12:43] <Tm_T> MCC =
[12:43] <Tm_T> ?
[12:43] <mhb> Jucato: they bought Ximian 3 months before SUSE.
[12:43] <Jucato> Mandriva Control Center
[12:43] <Jucato> MCC = drakconf
[12:44] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: yes. it's totally GTK
[12:44] <mhb> and now that Miguel is the Vice President of the Developer Platform, we cannot expect increased interest in KDE.
[12:44] <Jucato> I'll believe that when Novell starts laying off KDE developers
[12:44] <nosrednaekim> wasn't there a port of yast to ubuntu?
[12:44] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: there *was*... not sure what happened though
[12:45] <nosrednaekim> the yast configuration was the best thing about suse...
[12:45] <mhb> nosrednaekim: people want it, but it would require some really hard work, and we could get that only if C. wanted that
[12:45]  * Jucato agrees
[12:45] <Jucato> w/ nosrednaekim, that is.
[12:45] <Jucato> mhb: there was a community project before
[12:45] <Jucato> actually, it's porting YaST to debian, not to Ubuntu only iirc
[12:46] <mhb> Jucato: right, but as one of the YaST devs stated, it would require a hard-working team
[12:46] <Jucato> yast4debian: http://yast4debian.alioth.debian.org/
[12:46] <Jucato> true. that's why it's dead...
[12:47] <Jucato> what's nice about both MCC and YaST is that they are both KCM-like, in a sense that they are very modular
[12:47] <mhb> that would be nice if they were interoperable with KCM.
[12:47] <Jucato> true
[12:48] <mhb> I guess it could be done, after all, YaST uses its own YCP language interpreters, so it is just the question of rewriting those
[12:49] <mhb> but no company (especially companies that deal with the devil :o) would invest in editing their tools so they can be used by competition, too
[12:49] <mhb> they are happy that only SUSE derivatives can use it
[12:49] <nosrednaekim> its not python... so i'm out :(
[12:50] <nosrednaekim> good point mhb
[12:50] <Jucato> suse derivatives? do they exist?
[12:50] <Jucato> python... hm...
[12:52] <mhb> Jucato: no clue
[12:52] <mhb> Jucato: did you read that comment from KKofler?
[12:52] <Jucato> not yet. it's in my queue
[12:53]  * Jucato has to catch up on a lot of reading tonight
[12:58] <nosrednaekim> when kde4 beta 4 packages come out... i'm going to start using it full time
[12:58] <nosrednaekim> I have to learn how everything work before the support requests come flooding in :)
[13:07] <Tm_T> Huahua: huhuhaha?
[13:17] <buz> when was the note about in a day added :P
[13:18] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[13:19] <Jucato> "or so"
[13:21] <mhb> I think we haven't had a meeting for a long long time
[13:21] <mhb> so it's time to change that
[13:22] <nosrednaekim> mhb: everyone ELSE just had a huge meeting ;)
[13:22] <Hobbsee> hm?
[13:23]  * Hobbsee hears talks of meetings
[13:23] <nosrednaekim> UDS
[13:23] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[13:24] <mhb> nosrednaekim: indeed, but that was just jjesse and Riddell
[13:24] <mhb> and we have plenty of topics that we should discuss as a community
[13:25] <nosrednaekim> and kwwii, but from what I hear... he's a nit of a two faced apple ;)
[13:25] <Hobbsee> mhb: we need another meeting, methinks.
[13:26] <nosrednaekim> yup... I definately think we need a meeting
[13:27] <Hobbsee> will need to be sometime after next week
[13:32] <mhb> Hobbsee: can't we do that next weekend?
[13:32] <Hobbsee> mhb: Riddell's likely to be travelling
[13:32] <Hobbsee> and i hit exams RSN, too
[13:33] <Jucato> RSN?
[13:39] <mhb> Hobbsee: aren't you on GNOME now? :o)
[13:39] <mhb> just joking
[13:39] <mhb> we can wait, but I hate delaying stuff
[13:39] <Hobbsee> mhb: yeah, but last i knew, i was still part of th eteam :P
[13:39] <Hobbsee> Jucato: real soon now
[13:39] <Jucato> aaah
[13:39] <Hobbsee> mhb: i dont think we'll be able to pull Riddell away from all hands.
[13:40] <buz> 2.6.24rc1 seems to fix a lot of the spurious wake up from idle older kernels suffered from
[13:40] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: Hobbsee: Registered Surgical Nurse is my guess at that acronym?
[13:40] <buz> but i cant get alsa to compile
[13:40] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: I was sort of thinking that too :)
[13:42] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: nope :)
[13:42] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: i dont htink you'd want me being a nurse
[13:42] <Jucato> she'll be using soldering irons in place of scalpels :)
[13:42] <nosrednaekim> heh
[13:43] <mhb> if Hobbsee were a nurse, she'd have it real hard here, especially if she put up some photos of her at work
[13:43] <mhb> ah, old times :o)
[13:44] <Hobbsee> :P
[13:54] <buz> mhh i dont see the fascination with nurses, geek girls are much more fascinating ;)
[13:56] <mhb> buz: you may be right, but a geek nurse?
[13:56] <mhb> you need a tower function to compute the attractivity of such a girl :o)
[13:56] <mhb> wait, you call them differently in English
[13:57] <Hobbsee> mhb: nurses are too busy to be geeks, surely
[13:58] <mhb> you call it "tetration"
[13:58] <mhb> what an ugly word
[13:59] <mhb> or "power tower" which is closer to what I tried to say
[14:19] <jpatrick> mhb: I can't find where the GNOME Desktop Effects program is
[14:21] <mhb> jpatrick: it's a capplet
[14:22] <mhb> jpatrick: run gnome control center (even from KDE), select Appearance and the Desktop effects tab
[14:23] <mhb> don't ask me where the code is, that's why I am on KDE :o)
[14:24] <jpatrick> aha
[14:24] <Jucato> (you can probably ask Hobbsee... :D )
[14:26] <Hobbsee> the compiz thing?
[14:27] <mhb> Hobbsee: yes, we'd like to know where the code is
[14:27] <Hobbsee> compiz-config-settings-manager, iirc
[14:27] <mhb> Hobbsee: no, not this one, the patch to the GNOME Appearance tab that includes Desktop Effects
[14:28] <Hobbsee> oh right
[14:28] <Hobbsee> n oidea, then
[14:28] <Hobbsee> oh, awesome
[14:28] <Hobbsee> gnome's been fixed so it "just works" with amarok, it appers
[14:29] <Jucato> nooo!
[14:34] <jpatrick> does anyone here use taskbar-compiz?
[14:43] <jpatrick> hey Serega
[14:43] <Serega> jpatrick: Hi!
[14:44] <jpatrick> how's it going?
[14:44] <Serega> jpatrick: I have some troubles :)
[14:44] <mhb> Serega: have you started doing anything with the kaffeine codec suggestions?
[14:44] <Serega> jpatrick: exactly
[14:45] <Serega> oops
[14:45] <Serega> mhb: exactly :)
[14:45] <Serega> mhb: HI
[14:45] <mhb> Serega: Hi, I guess step 0 would be to download the current Kubuntu source code and put it in a bzr branch
[14:46] <Serega> mhb: kubuntu source code? I've done apt-get source kaffeine
[14:46] <mhb> Serega: that is correct
[14:46] <Serega> mhb: is it not sufficient?
[14:47] <Serega> nice
[14:47] <mhb> Serega: err,Kaffeine source code in Kubuntu
[14:47] <mhb> Serega: if you have that, it is wise that you will create a bzr branch of your code, so when you create something, we can all check your progress and help you with whatever you need
[14:47] <mhb> Serega: I take it you are familiar with Version Control?
[14:48] <Serega> I still have big inconvenience in using separate editor, compiler and debugger, my habit to IDE is too strong :)
[14:48] <Serega> mhb: I have exp with SVN and CVS
[14:48] <jpatrick> Serega: you'll get used to it
[14:48] <jpatrick> We use Bzr
[14:49] <Serega> jpatrick: yes, I hope I just need a time
[14:49] <Serega> jpatrick: I need 5 min to google for "Bzr" :)
[14:49] <Serega> btw, does "bzr" means "bazaar"?)
[14:50] <Serega> *mean
[14:50] <jpatrick> Serega: yep
[14:51] <jpatrick> Serega: our code is at: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/
[14:51] <mhb> I recommend http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[14:51] <jpatrick> this way we can break something
[14:51] <mhb> that is a good tutorial
[14:52] <mhb> jpatrick: he cannot really do anything within kubuntu-members, he's not a member
[14:52] <jpatrick> yeah.. but just for an example
[14:52] <jpatrick> but it's only a matter of time
[14:53] <mhb> ~kubuntu-users is the best one, we can all edit this one and it's an open team
[14:53] <Serega> why to use banching for simple task?
[14:53] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: please reupload kmplayer (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=kmplayer), last upload FTBFS and here's this version's pbuild log: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43266/
[14:53] <jpatrick> pretty please? :)
[14:53] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: can you email me about it please?
[14:54]  * Hobbsee doesnt even seem to remember uploading the first one ;)
[14:54] <mhb> Serega: because having a branch will allow us to work together on it easily
[14:54] <jpatrick> no, imbrandon did that other
[14:54] <Hobbsee> ah
[14:54] <mhb> Serega: and we can easily track what you did without bothering you, etc.
[14:54] <mhb> Serega: once we have it, we'll create a patch out of it
[14:54]  * Hobbsee wonders why this glass panel works for gnome, but not kde
[14:55] <Serega> OOH. About panels!!! Guys, we have ugliest bug in panel setup
[14:56] <Hobbsee> which one?  :)
[14:56] <Serega> Just create additional panel in KDE and try to change its size :) You cannot perfrom this without kcontrol
[14:57] <Serega> It's frustrating for newbies
[14:58] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: mail sent
[14:59] <Hobbsee> cool
[15:00] <jpatrick> mhb: awesome manual, thanks
[15:01] <mhb> Serega: better file a bug so we can keep track of it
[15:01] <mhb> (about the panels)
[15:02] <Serega> ok, maybe it is already filed
[15:02] <mhb> Serega: when you file a bug it will search for similar bugs ... so try it and you'll see
[15:03] <mhb> does anyone know if it's possible to have several KDE version alongside each other? I mean - compile two different versions of kdelibs/kdebase and switch between them
[15:03] <Serega> mhb: how it is possible?
[15:04] <Serega> how to swich?
[15:04] <Hobbsee> mhb: not without pain.  they're doing it for kde3,4, though
[15:04] <Hobbsee> Serega: at kdm
[15:04] <Serega> O.o
[15:04] <Serega> wow
[15:05] <Jucato> Hobbsee: it's not really that difficult, specially if he follows the techbase instructions (although he'll have 2 different users)
[15:06] <Hobbsee> Jucato: ah right.  didnt know techbase covered co-installability, although i guess it would
[15:06] <Jucato> mhb: you might want to ask stdin when he comes around (where is he anyway?). he was able to set it up in a way that a single user can use KDE 3 and 4, depending on a few env vars
[15:07] <mhb> Jucato: that I can
[15:07] <Jucato> Hobbsee: it instructs to install in a separate user's home directory instead of system directories. although in the case of our packages, we install in /usr/lib/kde4 iirc. it's basically the same. the most important part is setting up the correct paths...
[15:07] <mhb> Jucato: I wanted to test vanilla, Debian and Kubuntu KDE3's on a single machine
[15:07] <Hobbsee> ah right
[15:07] <Hobbsee> yup
[15:08]  * Hobbsee heads to bed.  night all
[15:08] <Jucato> g'night Hobbsee!
[15:26]  * ryanakca wonders on adding keyboard shortcuts to Adept... like in aptitude...
[15:31] <Jucato> adept....
[15:31] <Jucato> it struck again btw...
[15:31] <ryanakca> struck?
[15:32] <Jucato> the "Adept doesn't warn me that it will uninstall my whole system" problem...
[15:32]  * ryanakca scratches his head... in what sense?
[15:32] <ryanakca> Oh :)
[15:32] <buz> adept is an uhm weird app anyhow
[15:32]  * ryanakca goes to "preview changes" when he does use adept...
[15:32] <buz> i try to avoid it
[15:32] <ryanakca> but... 98% of the time I use apt/aptitude :)
[15:33] <buz> has a weird gui
[15:33] <Jucato> ryanakca: but how many users would know that they should do that? :)
[15:33]  * Jucato still thinks that a simple status bar notification isn't a good notification for system-critical processes like installing/removing packages
[15:33] <buz> why cant we just use kpackage
[15:33] <Jucato> buz: because we'd be basically be doing the same thing
[15:33] <Jucato> maintaining an unmaintained beast by ourselves :)
[15:33] <buz> at least it has a somewhat sane gui
[15:34] <Jucato> both are beasts... kpackage has an added beasthood feature of supporting more than just Debian-type sources :)
[15:34] <ryanakca> Jucato: *shrugs*... the paranoid ones? I'd have Apply Changes go threw "Preview changes", and have a little bar at the bottom saying "Proceed" or "Go back"... and if they proceed, well install
[15:35] <buz> maybe we can go to packagekit one day
[15:35] <Jucato> ryanakca: ditto... but the original author of Adept is sort of firm of not doing anything like a "confirm first" thing... or at least a dialog box for that...
[15:35] <ryanakca> Jucato: and... why not?
[15:35] <Jucato> buz: if Ubuntu decides to... which they're thinking of...
[15:35] <Jucato> which will make mhb go krazy
[15:35] <Jucato> ryanakca: you'll have to ask him. it was a wishlist filed upstream
[15:36] <buz> well i'd like to see smart myself
[15:36] <Jucato> ryanakca: basically along the lines of "**I** know what I'm doing and I don't need it to ask me about it"
[15:37] <Jucato> buz: afaik one very big consideration for PackageKit would be how much it supports APT. from what I've heard, not that good yet
[15:37] <buz> i can see why that would be a consideration ;)
[15:38] <Jucato> ryanakca: I personally have no issues with a dialog box, but if people hate that, perhaps a Request Changes (install/remove) -> Preview Changes -> Apply Changes workflow would be a better compromise
[15:38]  * ryanakca nods
[15:38] <Jucato> or, if it's possible, just a warning dialog if some "critical" packages will be removed.
[15:38] <buz> imho it should show what it will do
[15:38] <ryanakca> hmm... so packagekit is what... a frontend to apt/yum/urpmi all in one?
[15:38] <buz> even apt-get does
[15:38] <buz> ryanakca: yeah, dbus interface
[15:38] <Jucato> afaik in Gentoo, you will be warned or stopped if an action will remove a critical package
[15:39] <Jucato> a bit more than that... it works on a server-client model
[15:39] <buz> in apt at least you're being warned if you try to remove the running kernel
[15:39] <buz> (which occasionally i actually WANT to do ;9
[15:39] <ryanakca> hmm...
[15:40]  * ryanakca makes himself a chroot and runs rm -fr :)
[15:40] <ryanakca> s@rm -fr@rm -fr /@
[15:40] <Jucato> but first mount your / or /home in the chroot and end up like me :)
[15:40] <ryanakca> hehehe
[15:40] <buz> rofl
[15:40] <Jucato> yes, it did happen to me :)
[15:40] <buz> guy i know once did something like that to a mailserver
[15:41] <ryanakca> ouch
[15:41] <Jucato> following the chroot guide in the old packaging guide, I made a chroot, mounted my /home there....
[15:41]  * ryanakca decides not to run the command unless using a liveCD
[15:41] <Jucato> then the next morning, I decided I didn't want the chroot, rm'ed everything there... forgot that /home was mounted :)
[15:41] <buz> ryanakca: thankfully his office was at the 1st floor, otherwise he might have jumped...
[15:41] <ryanakca> :D
[15:42] <Jucato> he could have climbed to the highest floor too :)
[15:42] <buz> from all accounts he was out that badly, it didnt touch his mind ;)
[15:42] <ryanakca> yeah... or stuck a screwdriver into the electrical socket...
[15:42] <buz> most all sockets in new buildings have safety features here
[15:42] <ryanakca> ... or run outside infront of a bus
[15:43] <ryanakca> ... or a long list of other deaths...
[15:43] <buz> i think someone eventually handed him a bottle of whisky and told him to stop screaming ;9
[15:43] <Jucato> or simply headdesk to death
[15:43]  * ryanakca guesses that was the end of his career?
[15:44] <buz> actually no
[15:44] <ryanakca> like, they had backups, right?
[15:44] <buz> wasnt entirely his fault
[15:44] <ryanakca> ah
[15:44] <buz> usually you dont expect your mailspool to be mounted in TWO places
[15:44]  * ryanakca guesses so
[15:44] <buz> as for backups, well sort of, it was saturday and the guy who was responsible was away skiing ;)
[15:45] <buz> ever since he became fanatic about backups of all sorts though
[15:45] <ryanakca> must've been a nice phone call to get when you're on the chair lift... "Hey... umm... I just accidently erased our mailserver... (gulp from wiskey bottle)... m-m-mind comming in and helping me out?"
[15:46] <buz> lol
[15:46] <buz> i think they did ssh over gprs then
[15:46]  * Jucato still hasn't done a major backup since that event...
[15:46] <buz> Jucato: look into duplicity
[15:46] <Serega> jpatrick: I've prepared my bzr, where can I get the URL to make "bzr branch?
[15:46] <buz> that is the only sane solution
[15:47] <buz> (duplicity for offside, dvdr or usb drive or nas locally)
[15:47] <Jucato> buz: my biggest problem is that my desktop doesn't have a DVD burner. only the laptop does...
[15:47] <buz> i only work on the laptop these days
[15:47]  * ryanakca just rsyncs his /home dir over to his server every week or so...
[15:47] <Jucato> and my space on the laptop is limited too
[15:47] <buz> ryanakca: i used to do this
[15:48] <buz> but i rather dont have kwallet, online banking data etc out on the net
[15:48] <jpatrick> Serega: no idea..
[15:48] <Serega> jpatrick: :)
[15:48] <ryanakca> Serega: what are you looking for? (aka, what are you looking to branch)
[15:48] <buz> duplicity is sort of like rsync but stores stuff encrypted
[15:48] <Serega> jpatrick: kaffeine
[15:48] <ryanakca> buz: I send it to my old PIII upstairs in my mom's offic
[15:48] <Serega> ryanakca: kafefien
[15:48] <Serega> *kaffeine
[15:48] <buz> well i'm too paranoid to rely on local backups only ;)
[15:49] <ryanakca> Serega: and... you want to get what, the debian/ dir, or the package sources?
[15:49] <ryanakca> buz: I am too... but, I don't have anywhere else to put them.
[15:49] <jpatrick> ryanakca: we're trying to patch up kaffeine for Kubuntu src changes
[15:49] <Serega> ryanakca: I need the sources to preform task
[15:49] <buz> well finding a few gb for the truly important stuff isnt that hard
[15:49] <Serega> *perform
[15:49] <ryanakca> buz: oh, and rsync -e ssh   encrypts them while floating around... not encrypted on the server per-se... but, on the way there
[15:49] <buz> yeah
[15:49] <ryanakca> Serega: apt-get source kaffeine
[15:49] <ryanakca> jpatrick: ah, in that case, just a sec
[15:49] <buz> rsync uses ssh by default since years now, btw ;)
[15:50] <Serega> ryanakca: already done :)
[15:50] <ryanakca> buz: oh, hehe, oops
[15:50] <buz> well unless you run rsyncd
[15:50] <Serega> ryanakca: jpatrick advise me to use bzr
[15:50] <Serega> so I try
[15:50] <ryanakca> Serega: yeah, make your patch in the source dir, then move it to the bzr debian/ dir
[15:51] <jpatrick> ryanakca: I think he wants to put the kaffeine src there
[15:51] <Serega> ryanakca: so I just keep working on own source copy and will merge it to bzr later?
[15:51] <ryanakca> ... and it looks like we don't have the kaffeine debian/ dir on bzr...
[15:51] <Serega> aha
[15:52] <ryanakca> Serega: nope... just make the patch, put it in the the source package/debian/patches/foo , debuild -S -sa, and then make a debdiff
[15:52] <Serega> I'm not sure, but I already will have to change libxine :(((
[15:52] <Serega> s/already/
[15:52] <buz> ryanakca: http://www.freewebspace.net/php/search.php?form_language=English&form_space=999&b=0&i=10&Search=Search&form_hostType=REG&a=1 plenty of free hosts with 5G these days
[15:53] <ryanakca> buz: yeah... but I don't trust them with my GPG private key, etc :)
[15:53] <buz> well thats why you use duplicity ;)
[15:53] <ryanakca> oh, duplicity stores it encrypted?
[15:53] <ryanakca> cool
[15:57]  * ryanakca stops procrastinating and gets to his civics homework
[15:59] <buz> yeah
[15:59] <Serega> ryanakca: I'm not registered yet :(
[15:59] <Serega> ryanakca: server resufes my private messages
[16:00] <ryanakca> ah... well, register, it's a two second thing
[16:00] <Jucato> Serega: you haven't registered your nick yet?
[16:00] <ryanakca> !register | serega
[16:00] <ubotu> serega: By default, only registered users can send private messages - Information about  registering your Freenode nick can be found at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
[16:00] <Serega> Jucato: no :)
[16:00] <Jucato> Serega: do it now! :)
[16:00] <ryanakca> /msg nickserv register <password>
[16:00] <Jucato> ryanakca: you can type that command in 2 seconds?
[16:00] <Serega> yes, sir!
[16:01] <Serega> :)
[16:01] <ryanakca> Jucato: aie :)
[16:01] <Jucato> lol
[16:01] <ryanakca> Serega: and then, if you want your client to auto identify you, sent your nickserv password as the server password for freenode
[16:02] <Jucato> (or he can do it from his Identity settings in Konvi... if he's using konvi)
[16:03] <ryanakca> Jucato: or that :)
[16:03] <Serega> I'll try to relogin
[16:04] <Jucato> O.o
[16:05]  * ryanakca scrathes his head
[16:05] <ryanakca> hey bddebian
[16:05] <Serega> my nickname is busy :(((
[16:06] <Jucato> you don't need to logout you know...
[16:06] <bddebian> Heya gang
[16:06] <bddebian> Hi ryanakca
[16:06] <Jucato> /msg nickserv identify <password>
[16:06] <Jucato> hi bddebian
[16:06] <ryanakca> Serega: what do you mean busy?
[16:06] <bddebian> Heya Jucato
[16:07] <Serega> ryanakca: already registered :(
[16:07] <ryanakca> ah, and they haven't been around in over a year...
[16:07] <ryanakca> so, go:
[16:07] <ryanakca> /stats p
[16:08] <ryanakca> and then /query one of the ircops listed there asking them to free/deregister the nickname for you since the person hasn't logged in for over a year
[16:08] <ryanakca> you should be able to /msg them since they're ircops and they tend not to block messages from unregistered users
[16:09] <buz> i thought registrations were removed after a few months
[16:10]  * ryanakca shrugs... I'd think so too... but:
[16:10] <ryanakca> 11:07:18 [freenode] -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-           Last Seen: 1 year 19 weeks 3 days (0h 1m 3s) ago
[16:10] <Serega> ryanakca: exactly "/stats p"? how to interpret the result? I've got "p Ganneff (i=joerg@freenode/staff/debian.joerg)" "p 1 staff member"
[16:10] <ryanakca> then, /query Ganneff
[16:10] <Serega> ryanakca: I'm not familiar with IRC
[16:10] <Serega> ok
[16:11] <ryanakca> :) no problem... we (Ubuntu Classroom) taught a class on it last year... you might be interested in reading it...
[16:11]  * ryanakca searches for the link
[16:11] <ryanakca> http://jucato.multiply.com/journal/item/28
[16:12] <Jucato> O.o
[16:12] <Serega> ryanakca: there was opened chat to Ganneff
[16:12] <ryanakca> you'll want to look at the Konversation blurb
[16:12] <Serega> Jucato: nice smile! Is it you on avatar?
[16:12]  * Jucato looks
[16:13] <Jucato> yeah
[16:13] <Jucato> hahah I haven't maintained my multiply account for so long...
[16:13] <ryanakca> Serega: *nods*... so, in the window that says Ganneff, ask him if he can deregister/free the nick so that you can register
[16:14] <ryanakca> you going to move the transcripts over to jucato.org and update ClassroomTranscripts ?
[16:14] <Serega> ryanakca: Is it a good idea to ask user to deregiser himself?
[16:15] <Jucato> ryanakca: who says I haven't? :D
[16:15] <Jucato> http://jucato.org/blog/classes-begin/
[16:15] <Serega> ryanakca: or "Ganneff" is the responsible operator?
[16:15] <ryanakca> no, Ganneff isn't the owner of Serega... he's an ircop... he's basically one of the many administrators of the irc network
[16:15] <ryanakca> the latter
[16:15] <ryanakca> Jucato: thanks, update the wiki then?
[16:16] <Jucato> searching...
[16:16] <manchicken> If uninstalling a program like kdm (for scary instance) were to trigger the removal of kubuntu-desktop, it would only remove the top-level metapackage of kubuntu-desktop and not cascade into removing all of KDEdom, right?
[16:16] <mhb> yes
[16:17] <ryanakca> Serega: *is talking to the guy*
[16:17] <Serega> I AM REGISTERED! =)
[16:17] <Serega> ryanakca: Great thanks!
[16:17] <manchicken> That's what I thought.
[16:17] <Serega> (beer)
[16:19] <Jucato> ryanakca: done. all except for the Package Management one.. seems like I haven't transferred it yet...
[16:19] <ryanakca> Jucato: thanks
[16:33] <manchicken> Could someone check out my comments on bug #104182 and tell me if I'm being too much of a jerk?
[16:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 104182 in adept "Adept allows removal of essential packages without warning" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/104182
[16:34] <maini10> Hello, have you planned to release KDE 4 beta 4 packages for Kubuntu?
[16:34] <maini10> Sorry, i didn't read the title of this channel!
[16:36]  * Serega is going to reboot to livecd
[16:39] <fdoving> manchicken: you're not that bad. if you now come up with a .patch i belive they will be happy :)
[16:49]  * Serega is sad
[16:50]  * jpatrick hugs Serega
[16:50]  * Serega hugs jpatrick and cries
[16:51] <Serega> I've found the same problem on feisty livecd...
[16:51] <Serega> So looks like I have to dive into xine sources
[16:53] <ryanakca> hmm... is there any reason packagekit isn't already packaged?
[19:18] <fdoving> making kdesudo support -t is a bitch. bug 158672
[19:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 158672 in kdesudo "kdesu: Unknown option '-t'." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158672
[19:32] <mhb> fdoving: what's 't'?
[20:11] <nixternal> ok, how come the time doesn't change automagically?
[20:13] <jpatrick> ruby; time = Time.now; puts time ? :)
[21:14] <jjesse> w
[21:19] <ScottK> x
[21:19] <yuriy> y
[21:22] <jpatrick> z
[21:23] <jjesse> a
[21:26] <ScottK> b
[21:50] <nosrednaekim> good evening..
[21:50] <jjesse> evening
[22:09] <danimo> heya!
[22:09] <danimo> is there any kubuntu vmware appliance?
[22:10] <nosrednaekim> danimo: like what?
[22:11] <danimo> nosrednaekim: like a kubuntu I can run in vmware player
[22:11] <danimo> nosrednaekim: that only exists for ubuntu
[22:11] <danimo> nosrednaekim: it's very very convinient
[22:11] <nosrednaekim> danimo: ah.. ok. there maybe.
[22:12] <danimo> ah, nevermind
[22:12] <nosrednaekim> danimo: yeah... its a pain to install it yourself.
[22:12] <danimo> found it
[22:12] <danimo> http://download.chip.eu/de/Kubuntu-Gutsy-Gibbon-7.10_874774.html
[22:12] <nosrednaekim> danimo: where is it?
[22:12] <nosrednaekim> ah.. ok
[22:12] <danimo> nosrednaekim: no it isn't, but I have some friends that want to try it on top of windows first
[22:13] <nosrednaekim> danimo: I guess it always was for me since I didn't have the server edition.
[22:15] <danimo> nosrednaekim: err, that's a CD image only, bummer
[22:18] <claydoh> http://isv-image.ubuntu.com/vmware/
[22:18] <claydoh> there should be one on vmware's appliance site, though not sure if its gutsy
[22:18]  * claydoh looks
[22:22] <claydoh> I *(hope* those are vmware images im my link....
[22:26] <claydoh> yup they are