[00:19]  * assasukasse is away: Im leaving, query me.
[00:19] <m1ke> What is your opinion towards Sabayon ?
[00:37] <hydrogen> horrible.
[03:54] <compwiz18> did anyone else's X stuff get borked with that last update?
[04:18] <Hobbsee> compwiz18: the silly people who shouldnt be running hardy are in that corner. please join them.
[04:18]  * Hobbsee points
[04:18] <bazhang> haha
[04:24] <compwiz18> I know, it's on the test laptop
[04:25] <compwiz18> and of course, since the topic says "Don't run hardy, it probably doesn't work" naturally, I had to install it.
[04:25] <bazhang> :}
[04:36] <nrp> heh, when an update tells you its about to remove xserver-xorg and everything related to it, its usually not a good idea to choose Y
[04:39] <compwiz18> true
[04:40] <compwiz18> I remember reading that and wondering why they were removing all the xorg stuff
[04:41] <compwiz18> it still starts, but I think xorg.conf got screwed up
[04:57] <Hobbsee> compwiz18: of course, yes.
[04:57]  * Hobbsee is asking for a bump of the xserver packages, so that X is fully installable again
[04:58] <Hobbsee> [14:52] <Keybuk> breaking hardy is to be expected ;)
[04:58] <Hobbsee> [14:52] --> DShepherd has joined this channel (n=dwight@72.252.133.113).
[04:58] <Hobbsee> [14:52] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: well, of course :)
[04:58] <Hobbsee> [14:52] <Keybuk> if you're running hardy now, you're crazy
[04:59] <Hobbsee> perhaps that should go in the topic
[05:01] <compwiz18> heh
[05:02] <compwiz18> I'm crazy then xD
[05:02] <hydrogen> okay..
[05:02] <hydrogen> its not really worth bragging about
[05:04] <Hobbsee> right.  priority bumped.  waiting time.
[05:23] <shirish> hi all, can somebody tell me http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3690461&postcount=7
[05:24] <shirish> quote from the post "ou go trough apt-get update and download packages but don't upgrade then you go to the update-manager and it downloads more 13 packages that apt-get didn't considered so it is better use update-manager cause they are not synchronized yet."
[05:25] <Hobbsee> shirish: the guy's on crack.
[05:25] <Hobbsee> shirish: it's held back packages - apt will let youf orce them, update-manager wont.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> he's just too much of a git to realise, and should nto be running gutsy
[05:26] <shirish> Hobbsee: ok cool
[05:27] <Hobbsee> er, hardy.
[05:29] <shirish> Hobbsee: This is the way I'm seeing apt-get dist-upgrade is showing me, http://pastebin.ca/760667
[05:29] <shirish> I can see that xserver-xorg all stuff will not be there. line 7 onwards,
[05:30] <shirish> Hobbsee: any comments or suggestions would be welcome.
[05:30] <Hobbsee> shirish: only that you shouldnt upgrade if you cant do it cleanly, and if you dont know what your'e doing.
[05:31] <shirish> that I have never known :)
[05:32] <Hobbsee> if you wait a fe wmore hours, it should all be installable again
[05:32] <Hobbsee> and..
 breaking hardy is to be expected ;)
 if you're running hardy now, you're crazy
[05:33] <shirish> Hobbsee: thanx but then i was born crazy ;)
[05:33] <shirish> Hobbsee: till l8ter, thanx for guiding me :)
[05:42] <bazhang> great new topic
[05:59] <Laser88> Moin!
[08:49] <se7en^Of^9> is someone already running hardy?
[08:49] <rsk> most likely
[08:49] <Hobbsee> yeah
[08:50] <se7en^Of^9> any problems?
[08:50] <Hobbsee> dude.  if you have to ask....
[08:50] <Hobbsee> some, yes.
[08:51] <se7en^Of^9> ok thanks i give it a try
[08:51] <Hobbsee> then you should not run hardy.
[08:51] <Hobbsee> X is partially broken.
[08:52] <se7en^Of^9> i can live with that
[08:53] <Hobbsee> strange.
[08:53] <Hobbsee> okay then.
[08:57]  * Hobbsee figures "what the hell", and says yes to the upgrade
[08:57] <bazhang> haha
[08:57] <bazhang> love the new topic Hobbsee
[09:01] <Hobbsee> oh, sigh
[09:04] <Hobbsee> okay, i *didnt* want to do this.
[09:04] <bazhang> upgrade?
[09:05] <Hobbsee> no, go thru the x transition in the middle.
[09:05] <bazhang> oh. sorry.
[09:06] <Hobbsee> Resolving dependencies...
[09:06] <Hobbsee> Unable to resolve dependencies!  Giving up...
[09:06] <Hobbsee> Abort.
[09:06] <Hobbsee> haha :)
[09:07] <bazhang> well you'll be the one to go to in a month or so..thanks for the sacrifices you are making now
[09:13] <Hobbsee> i thought with evertyhing built, it might just work
[09:13] <bazhang> I was going to say go-to guy, but nixternal set me straight.. :}
[09:16] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:17] <bazhang> :}
[09:17]  * Hobbsee waits for these debs to transfer over.
[09:21]  * Hobbsee ponders downloading a gutsy final ISO, just in case.
[09:21] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: this stuff really does break :P
[09:23] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I decided to try to resolve it this morning, but managed to break it, but was able to revert by manually reinstalling the old bits and pieces.
[09:23] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that's what i'm about to ry
[09:23] <Hobbsee> *try
[09:24] <Hobbsee> trouble is, i deleted my aptcache too :)
[09:24] <Fujitsu> Mine wasn't in the apt-cache, so I just downloaded the stuff from LP.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> oh, need old xserver-xorg too
[09:26]  * Hobbsee scp's that too
[09:26] <Fujitsu> xserver-xorg, xserver-xorg-core, xserver-xorg-video-intel, xserver-xorg-input-whateveryouuse.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> yup
[09:30] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: erm?  how am i supposed to get xserver-xorg, when it's the same version in gutsy and hardy, according to LP?
[09:31] <Hobbsee> oh, i see
[09:34] <level1> Hobbsee: did you just try to upgrade to hardy?
[09:34] <Hobbsee> level1: no
[09:34] <Hobbsee> i went thru the X breakage, to see if it was actually fixed.
[09:34] <level1> I wondering if its a stable enough state that I want to get it
[09:34] <level1> oh, I see
[09:35] <Fujitsu> level1: If you're wondering that, it's not.
[09:35] <Hobbsee> you dont.
[09:38] <Hobbsee> oh, interesting.  new LP feature
[09:38] <Hobbsee> LP has decided it's necessary to show depends, conflicts, etc.
[09:40] <Hobbsee> WTH?
[09:40]  * Hobbsee swears this is circular dependancies.
[09:43] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: which order did you use to attempt to install this?
[09:43] <Hobbsee> dpkg is being dumb.
[09:43] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I think I removed everything, then install everything at once...
[09:44] <Fujitsu> I might have used a --force-depends at one point.
[09:44] <Fujitsu> But it's all OK now.
[09:44] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:44] <Hobbsee> i'd forgotten abotu --force-depends
[09:44] <Hobbsee> this stuff looks circular, so that's not a bad idea.
[09:44] <Hobbsee> or at least, semi-circular
[09:45] <Fujitsu> It is sorta, yeah.
[09:45] <Fujitsu> Though if you remove everything and install all the old versions, I think it's OK.
[09:45] <Fujitsu> I forget, it was 12 hours ago.
[09:46] <Hobbsee> I WIN!!!
[09:46] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: eventual solution:  downloaded the bits, let aptitude install the null driver, so that it can get -core installed, so that the -input and -video can get installed, so that you can then go and install xserver-xorg, xorg, and then ubuntu-desktop
[09:46] <Fujitsu> Ahhhh.
[09:47] <Fujitsu> I didn't think about that second step.
[09:47] <Hobbsee> core depends on the input and video, but input and video won't configure without -core installed.
[09:47] <Hobbsee> sounds like circular depends for anyone who removes core.
[09:47] <Fujitsu> Yep.
[09:47] <Hobbsee> which most wont do
[09:47] <Hobbsee> but i think that's a bug.
[09:47] <Hobbsee> you shouldnt *have* circular deps like that at all, to my knowledge
[09:47] <Fujitsu> core doesn't depend on input, does it?
[09:48] <Hobbsee> erm, apparently not.  but xserver-xorg will
[09:48] <Fujitsu> It's still a mess and silly.
[09:48] <Hobbsee> yup
[09:48] <Hobbsee> root@LongPointyStick:/var/cache/apt/archives# show xserver-xorg | grep input
[09:48] <Hobbsee> 11:Depends: xserver-xorg-core (>= 2:1.3.0.0.dfsg-3), xserver-xorg-video-all | xserver-xorg-video-1.0 | xserver-xorg-video, xserver-xorg-input-all | xserver-xorg-input, debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, xkb-data | xkb-data-legacy, xbase-clients
[09:49] <Fujitsu> I guess it does make a bit of sense to have the server depending on them, as it's useful without them.
[09:49] <Fujitsu> But it makes things a bit difficult if they break.
[09:50] <Hobbsee> well, true.
[09:52] <Fujitsu> Erm, s/useful/not useful/
[09:52] <Hobbsee> oh, it's shift+f9 to make the water go away.
[09:52] <Hobbsee> not shift+f8
[09:53] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: do i want to hold back x11-data, or is that OK?
[09:53]  * Hobbsee doesnt remember
[09:53] <Fujitsu> That's OK.
[09:54] <Hobbsee> right.  fixed. :)
[09:55] <Hobbsee> erm
[09:55] <Hobbsee> ah.  it's just lagging
[09:56] <Fujitsu> ?
[09:56] <Hobbsee> compiz is taking up 90% of cpu
[09:57] <Hobbsee> right.  that's better
[09:57]  * Hobbsee --> dinner
[10:03] <cyphase> Anyone know anything about plans to have a "guest" account in Hardy, e.g. you can logon, do whatever, and when you log off, everything is purged?
[10:08] <Fujitsu> cyphase: I do not know of any, so there probably aren't any.
[10:08] <cyphase> Fujitsu: i suppose you know everything
[10:08] <cyphase> Fujitsu: ;)
[11:06] <neztiti> can someone give me new source.list??
[11:18] <Hobbsee> neztiti: you dont want it.
[11:27] <scizzo-> good topic.. :)
[11:38] <Hobbsee> scizzo-: :)
[11:38] <Hobbsee> scizzo-: was thinking of adding "the idiot corner is over there"
[11:42] <bazhang> :}
[12:44] <compwiz18> "the idiot corner is over by compwiz18" :P
[12:54] <Hobbsee> heh
[13:03] <IdleOne> Hobbsee: if I want to make a wish/ feature request for a package I just add Wish to the bug report?
[13:04] <Hobbsee> IdleOne: what are you wanting a feature for?
[13:04] <IdleOne> xchat
[13:04] <IdleOne> want the upload/download window to be hidden or minimized
[13:04] <IdleOne> or at least the ability to do so
[13:05] <Hobbsee> better to file it in the gnome bugtracker then
[13:05] <IdleOne> url?
[13:11] <Hobbsee> bugs.gnome.org or something?
[13:36] <IdleOne> Hobbsee: filling with gnome bugtracker assumes that I am using xchat-gnome. I run xchat-common I did file a bug anyway because I believe the same issue exists in xchat-gnome but filed with launchpad also
[13:37] <Hobbsee> IdleOne: fair enough.  ubuntu people will just foward it to xchat people, so you may as well do it for them :)
[13:38] <IdleOne> xchat people dont seem to want to fix that seems they like the fact that the winodw covers the chat windows lol
[13:38] <Hobbsee> hooray.
[13:38] <Hobbsee> silly people :)
[13:38] <IdleOne> heh
[13:39] <IdleOne> well guess if it gets fixed it gets fixed if not I will have to live with it
[19:57] <Vegar> will hardy use 2.6.23?
[19:58] <ompaul> hope is for 24 to be in there
[19:59] <sebsebseb> seems  Gutsy is quite a buggy release here and there.  and hardy is probably hardly worth trying in a  VM inside Gutsy,  at the moment?  for a non  developer, because it's very alpha?
[20:04] <ompaul> well you can see it progress if you want
[20:05] <sebsebseb> is hardly at the moment based on Gutsy?
[20:05] <ikonia> sebsebseb: its messy as heck at the moment unless you comfortable with how the distro is packaged together
[20:05] <sebsebseb> I mean basically
[20:05] <sebsebseb> Gutsy with some changes?
[20:05] <ikonia> sebsebseb: no
[20:06] <sebsebseb> how the distro is packaged together?  how differnet components work with each other?
[20:06] <ikonia> yes, versions dependencies and needs and what needs to be where to work
[20:07] <sebsebseb> Gutsy to me seems like hardly an upgrade from Feisty really.  and  pft found what seems to be a bug and this one does effect me a lot
[20:07] <ikonia> thats just opinions
[20:07] <ompaul> !components
[20:07] <ubotu> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components - See also !EasySource
[20:07] <sebsebseb> Gutsy just seems like  a  newer version of Firefox  Pidgin instead of Gaim and  there is Apparmour and  whatever under the hood stuff that I don't know about
[20:07] <ompaul> !timebasedreleases
[20:07] <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[20:08] <ompaul> sebsebseb, if you want stability you use the LTS
[20:08] <sebsebseb> yes
[20:08] <sebsebseb> and Hardly is the next LTS
[20:08] <sebsebseb> I know
[20:08] <Vegar> when can I expect to see 2.6.23 in hardy?
[20:09] <sebsebseb> stability lol I expect a  distro to be able to get the names right of a CD
[20:09] <sebsebseb> the track names
[20:09] <sebsebseb> and not come up with unknown
[20:09] <sebsebseb> whatever distro :)
[20:09] <sebsebseb> surely something like that,  is quite basic to do?
[20:09] <sebsebseb> Feisty put a CD in and yeah  it would get the names right
[20:10] <sebsebseb> why do I care that it detects the names of the tracks on the CD?  ,because I have last.fm profile
[20:10] <sebsebseb> and so yeah the names get submitted
[20:10] <sebsebseb> when I listen to that track
[20:10] <ompaul> they are packages that are in gnome one of the main sub components
[20:10] <ompaul> so if you don't like the gnome way use kde
[20:10] <ompaul> it went though a lot of changes for version 4
[20:11] <sebsebseb> the part that tells Rythombox and soundjuicer what the tracks on the CD is called is part of Gnome?
[20:12] <sebsebseb> I never liked KDE much,  except for Konversation and K3B  basically
[20:12] <sebsebseb> however
[20:12] <sebsebseb> by what I read and what screenshots I have seen of KDE 4
[20:12] <sebsebseb> it seems it  is going to be a lot better
[20:12] <sebsebseb> and maybe it will become my main  desktop environment instead of Gnome
[20:12] <ompaul> sebsebseb, that part is a database that is queried
[20:12] <sebsebseb> and I assume Hardly will be suppourting KDE4 by default?
[20:13] <sebsebseb> which part the bit that tells the player what names are on the CD?
[20:14] <ompaul> sebsebseb, well given that http://www.kubuntu.org/ kubuntu 4 beta something is in use now as long as kde get 4 out the door then it will be there
[20:14] <ompaul> sebsebseb, the database it queries
[20:14]  * ompaul urges self not to repeat 
[20:15] <sebsebseb> ok so it reads a database that says what  the names of the tracks are on the CD
[20:15] <sebsebseb> and then it should tell the player that
[20:15] <ompaul> yes
[20:15] <sebsebseb> and then it displays that in the player
[20:15] <sebsebseb> however this is not happening in Gutsy
[20:15] <sebsebseb> 99% of the time
[20:15] <sebsebseb> it seems now
[20:15] <ompaul> as long as you are connected to the interweb
[20:15] <sebsebseb> and yes when connected to the Internet as well
[20:16] <ompaul> so what you might want to do is eject the cd and put it in again shortly afterwards
[20:16] <sebsebseb> yes done that
[20:16] <sebsebseb> re booted the computer turned it on back on again blah blah.  logged out of the account and back in again so on
[20:16] <sebsebseb> ejected the CD
[20:16] <sebsebseb> put it back in again
[20:16] <sebsebseb> told it to play,  when it said unknown and it don't change
[20:17] <sebsebseb> after a lot of trying to get it to show the names,  I got it showing the names,  but  one of the tracks wasn't called the right one.  and two of the others didn't have the right name
[20:17] <ompaul> sebsebseb, maybe that entry is not there
[20:17] <ompaul> in the DB
[20:17] <sebsebseb> I tryed differnet CD's also
[20:17] <sebsebseb> and no luck with getting any of the others to say the names of the tracks yet
[20:18] <sebsebseb> is it a bug?  or just something screwed with my set up hummmmmm
[20:18] <ompaul> why don't you look up launchpad.net
[20:19] <sebsebseb> not tryed Vista yet again with the CD's
[20:19] <sebsebseb> ,but I expect that will work fine still
[20:19] <sebsebseb> I am on the bugs thing on launchapd
[20:19] <sebsebseb> ,but that's quite confussing to me
[20:19] <sebsebseb> to me it seems rather geek,  and then it's like,  how would I find out if someone has done a bug report for the thing I am on about and blah blah
[20:20] <sebsebseb> I might have to revert to playing  my CD's on this computer in Vista,  or inside Gutsy in some VM hummmmm
[20:20] <sebsebseb> well that's a bit silly
[20:20] <sebsebseb> they should just work with the names showing
[20:20] <sebsebseb> in Gutsy
[20:20] <ompaul> well then #ubuntu+1 seems to not really sit you as a type of user
[20:20] <ompaul> s/sit/suit
[20:20] <sebsebseb> maybe in a way this is the wrong channel yes
[20:20] <sebsebseb> ,but
[20:20] <ompaul> it is for those testing the next version
[20:21] <sebsebseb> yes I know
[20:21] <sebsebseb> and if what I am having in Gutsy is a bug
[20:21] <ompaul> and if you won't meet the people half way by learning to use launchpad.net
[20:21] <sebsebseb> I hope it won't be in the next one :)
[20:21] <bazhang> is this #ubuntu+1 or #ubuntu-offtopic ? lol
[20:22] <sebsebseb> I  have used launchpad before to order CD's and  maybe I did some sort of bug report or that was some where else
[20:22] <sebsebseb> ages ago
[20:22] <ompaul> bazhang, no longer sure myself
[20:22] <bazhang> ahaha
[20:23] <sebsebseb> I find this a joke that Gutsy won't just  show the names of the CD  tracks
[20:23] <sebsebseb> something as simple as that
[20:23] <sebsebseb> oh yeah and by the way if anyone cares, I tryed out Gutsy when it was being developed
[20:24] <ikonia> ?
[20:24] <sebsebseb> yes had some issues,  but   that was alright nothing major,  untill a kernel update and my sound no longer worked.  there was some bugs or wahtever,  but it was alpha so yeah
[20:24] <sebsebseb> I accepted that
[20:24] <sebsebseb> ended up going back to Feisty :)  then  upgrading to RC of Gutsy and yeah.
[20:25] <sebsebseb> and  after having computer on.  it crashed on me and stuff like that.  not sure why.  and now this CD names thing hummmmmmm
[20:25] <sebsebseb> maybe it is a butg
[20:25] <sebsebseb> I guess it's worth trying to find out yes
[20:25] <sebsebseb> rather then just doing some bug report,  assuming that it is a bug
[20:26] <sebsebseb> and I hope Hardy will be quite a lot better release.  i'll try it eventaully and watch it being developed in VM yeah.  that way if things screw up oh well
[20:27] <sebsebseb> being ignored now?  it seems ok.  well I was off topic anyway in this channel
[20:29] <sebsebseb> #ubotu
[20:35] <ikonia> your not being ignired
[20:35] <ikonia> ignored
[21:51] <Myrth[home]> hi, what means "HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device" ?
[23:48]  * assasukasse is away: Im leaving, query me.