[00:10] <mhb> manchicken: how about making adept updater look like this:
[00:10] <mhb> manchicken: http://mhb.ath.cx/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/updater-suggested.png
[00:11] <mhb> manchicken: I must admit, I like simple dialogs for simple tasks
[01:49] <ryanakca> hmm... any reason packagekit hasn't already been packaged?
[01:53] <Jucato> whoa? Kivio stencils for sale? O.o
[01:54] <seele> yeah
[01:54] <seele> you can also request stencils to be made for a price
[01:54] <seele> if only kivio was good enough to be worth that..
[01:55] <Jucato> :)
[01:55]  * Jucato is still looking for a UI-wireframing app :)
[01:55] <seele> if you find an OSS one, let me know
[01:55] <seele> ive been looking for years
[01:55] <seele> afaik dia is better than kivio, but still no match for visio
[01:55] <Jucato> uh oh... :)
[01:56] <seele> and since it is a major part of my job function, i cant waste time with a sub-par application
[01:56] <Jucato> if you haven't found one for years... I doubt I can find one in a few hours :D
[01:56] <seele> frustration is not a consultant's friend
[01:56] <seele> yeah
[01:57] <Jucato> :)
[01:58] <nixternal> I haven't used Visio since like 1998....I heard it is gotten really good over the past few releases...maybe I will have to check it out
[01:59] <Jucato> nixternal!!!!
[01:59] <seele> nixternal: try to get an older version that doesnt have the ribbon
[01:59] <seele> i still haven't figured it out
[02:00] <nixternal> you can disable the ribbon and go back to classic view...I watched someone in class do it last week
[02:00] <seele> ooh
[02:00]  * seele does that right now
[02:00] <nixternal> installing Visio Pro 2007 now
[02:00] <Jucato> is there a demo version of Visio? :D
[02:00] <nixternal> I am sure there is
[02:00] <seele> a demo version of a microsoft product?
[02:01] <nixternal> heh, they actually have those now
[02:01] <Jucato> hehe my diagramming wants are really simple... UML, Flowchart, generic diagrams, and possibly UI wireframing... Umbrello takes care of the first 2...
[02:01] <nixternal> UML == Umbrello
[02:02] <nixternal> I use Kivio for flowcharting
[02:02] <nixternal> if I flowchart
[02:02] <nixternal> UI wireframing I never did much of...I would alway draw it out in the UI dev software
[02:02] <Jucato> :P
[02:02] <nixternal> maybe next time I will read your entire sentence before commenting :p
[02:03]  * Jucato wants to specialize in UI (a bit of usability, but more on programming and desing)
[02:03] <Jucato> er.. design
[02:03] <Jucato> kivio's UML stencils are a bit... :)
[02:04] <nixternal> I took 2 UI design courses, just finished up the 2nd one a couple of months ago
[02:04] <Jucato> kool!
[02:04] <nixternal> heh, the UI I used to program was nasty stuff
[02:04] <nixternal> HMI Panels for Allen Bradley
[02:04] <nixternal> it wasn't until we switched from the HMI panels to PCs where I got to do nice 3d panels
[02:04] <Jucato> they actually have UI courses? sweet! :)
[02:05] <nixternal> I know our universities here do, at least the ones I know
[02:05] <nixternal> I just started taking CS courses...got my Bachelors at University of Maryland (GO TERPS!) in Business
[02:07] <crimsun> only a few miles from here!
[02:07] <Jucato> I bet that if there were ever any UI design-related courses/classes here, it would either be Java or Visual Foo
[02:07] <nixternal> College Park baby!
[02:07] <crimsun> my gf lives in CP
[02:08] <nixternal> The only place I really frequented up there was Congressional Golf Course in Bethesda
[02:08] <nixternal> and Chevy Chase, only because I almost bought a house there when I worked for Fannie Mae
[02:08] <nixternal> holy smokes, I just downloaded 9mb in 2 seconds
[02:14] <Jucato> seele: wow! there is a free trial of visio! lol! :D
[02:14] <Jucato> of course I have to sign-in/up :P
[02:15] <nixternal> haha
[02:15] <Jucato> luckily I have a hotmail account...
[02:16] <nixternal> interesting...my Visio 2007 Pro doesn't have the ribbon
[02:26] <jjesse> hello nixternal and Jucato
[02:26] <Jucato> jjesse!!!
[02:26] <Jucato> back from UDS?
[02:26] <jjesse> yeah got back friday night late
[02:26] <jjesse> like 11:45 or so
[02:26] <Riddell> jjesse: sorry I didn't say goodbye
[02:27] <Riddell> thanks for coming
[02:27] <jjesse> Riddell: no problem, i had a great time ,looking forward to the next one :)
[02:28] <jjesse> Riddell: you guys in plymouth already?
[02:28] <Riddell> yes, arrived this evening
[02:28] <Riddell> we played the Canonical IRC Bingo game
[02:28] <jjesse> which is?
[02:29] <Riddell> a game of bingo with canonical names and you have to match 5 in a row of irc names
[02:29] <jjesse> sounds like fun
[02:31] <nixternal> howdy jjesse
[02:31] <jjesse> howdy nixternal
[02:32] <Riddell> hi hdevalence
[02:32] <hdevalence> hey guys, I want to experiment with kde/qt, but i think my moc is broken
[02:32] <hdevalence> hey
[02:33] <Riddell> hdevalence: are you using qmake?
[02:34] <hdevalence> Riddell: either qmake or when I follow the instructions on the kde techbase tutorials or when i try to build someone else's program from source with ./configure and then make..
[02:34] <hdevalence> none work
[02:34] <hdevalence> and I have the -dev packages installed
[02:36] <Riddell> hdevalence: qt 3 or qt4?
[02:36] <hdevalence> Riddell: Both.
[02:37] <hdevalence> Riddell: Could that be what's causing the problem?
[02:37] <nixternal> seele: what template do you use for wireframing?
[02:37] <Riddell> hdevalence: it could be calling the moc from the wrong qt indeed
[02:40] <hdevalence> Riddel: Adept says I have libqt4-dev but I don't see a libqt3-dev
[02:40] <crimsun> missing -mt
[02:41] <crimsun> (libqt3-mt-dev)
[02:41] <hdevalence> oh yes I do have that
[02:42] <hdevalence> I also have qt4-dev-tools and qt3-dev-tools
[02:43] <hdevalence> I have all of the kde4 packages except kde4addons and kde4addons-data
[02:43] <crimsun> be aware that if you use ./configure, you need to set the appropriate prefix
[02:43] <crimsun> Qt prefix, that is.
[02:44] <crimsun> I'm surmising you need /usr/share/qt4
[02:44] <hdevalence> crimsun: How do I do that?
[02:45] <crimsun> --with-qt-dir=/usr/share/qt4
[02:48] <hdevalence> I hear that 8.04 will not include kde 4. Is this true?
[02:48] <jjesse> kde4 will not be a part of the long term support release
[02:49] <jjesse> there will be some ISO cretaed that will include KDE4 but not as a part of 8.04
[02:50] <dasKreech> hi crimsun
[02:50] <crimsun> (hi)
[02:51] <jjesse> hdevalence: did that answer your question?
[02:51] <hdevalence> jjesse: so basically I can get an iso that uses kde3.5.etc OR an iso that uses kde4?
[02:52] <jjesse> hdevalence: the long term supported version of 8.04 will include kde 3
[02:52] <dasKreech> Jucato or Jucato_: Why UI?
[02:52] <Jucato> dasKreech: why why UI?
[02:52] <jjesse> so if you want long term suport  you need to use 8.04
[02:52] <nixternal> hdevalence: you will be able to get a KDE 4 Live CD that is 7.10
[02:52] <Jucato_> dasKreech: why why UI?
[02:53] <dasKreech> heh
[02:53] <dasKreech> I started looking at game design cause it's one of the few places taht still seriously review UI design
[02:54] <dasKreech> btw I think I like the OpenSuse cd more than the Debian KDE4 cd though the Debian is less annoying
[02:55] <Jucato> dasKreech: I'm referring mostly to desktop GUI
[02:55] <dasKreech> I know
[02:56] <dasKreech> but there are generally so many assumptions there it's really annoying
[02:56] <Jucato> Fitt's law giving you fits? :)
[02:57] <dasKreech> heehee
[03:09] <dasKreech> Hihi ^ ^
[03:09] <dasKreech> Anyone played the new pingus?
[03:10] <dasKreech> crimsun: Would I be right in saying that pulseaudio would be a backend to phonon?
[03:11]  * Jucato is confuzzled about what he read about pulseaudio...
[03:11] <dasKreech> Yeah me too
[03:12] <dasKreech>  sounds like a copy of Phonon without the multiple backends
[03:12] <Jucato> if I read it correctly (from liquidat) it sits between ALSA and GStreamer/Xine...
[03:12] <Jucato> while Phonon sits between the app and the backend... so it's not really like Phonon...
[03:12] <dasKreech> feature set sounds like it
[03:12] <Jucato> which is why I'm confuzzled :)
[03:13] <dasKreech> But yeah it sounds like a backend to phonon
[03:13] <Jucato> or a backend to Xine/Gstreamer... O.o
[03:13] <Riddell> pulseaudio is a sound server, a replacement for esd or the mixer part of arts
[03:13] <dasKreech> Oh
[03:13] <dasKreech> now I am confused
[03:13] <Jucato> :D
[03:13] <Tm_T> Riddell: sounds evil =)
[03:13] <Jucato> I try not to dive into hardware and sound... :)
[03:13] <Riddell> xine is mostly just a decoder, while gstreamer is a framework to do decoding or encoding
[03:32]  * dasKreech laughs
[03:32] <dasKreech> I told a friend that feisty was really solid but lacked a lot of nice features whereas gutsy has lots of features but bugs sprinkled around the place
[03:32] <dasKreech>  he responded: So it became Windows?
[03:49] <dasKreech> nixternal: ping
[04:06] <nixternal> dasKreech: pong
[04:06] <dasKreech> tried gos?
[04:08] <nixternal> ya
[04:09] <dasKreech> thoughts?
[04:09] <nixternal> not for me honestly, didn't boot on the intel core 2
[04:10] <nixternal> it felt like all flash and no go
[04:10] <dasKreech> So you gnash-ed your teeth?
[04:10] <nixternal> heh
[04:31] <nixternal> jjesse: are you writing that article for Linux+ or should I do it? I told the lady I would get back with her a week ago and I haven't yet
[04:40] <Jucato> gOS...
[05:08] <dasKreech> nixternal: http://themasterchief.stumbleupon.com/review/13841275/
[05:27] <nixternal> heh, nice
[05:57] <dasKreech> FOG is Open Sorce
[07:33] <Jucato> Hobbsee hobbs hob :)
[07:37] <Hobbsee> hiya Jucato!
[07:37] <Jucato> how's life so far? :D
[07:37] <Hobbsee> too much crap to do :(
[07:38] <Hobbsee> apart from that, good :)
[07:38] <Jucato> heheh
[07:38]  * Jucato has a lot of stuff to do... but can't figure out how/when/where to start :/
[07:40] <Hobbsee> same here, pretty much
[07:40] <Hobbsee> start with the stuff that needs doing first
[07:42]  * Jucato thinks hard...
[07:42] <Jucato> I should probably do... hm.. chocolate!
[07:47] <Hobbsee> mmm...chocolate...
[10:11] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[10:11] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[10:11] <Hobbsee> he'll be asleep
[10:12] <Tonio_> ah ok
[10:12] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: did you notice the hudge criticisms dolphin by default receives ?
[10:13] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: we should have removed the default mimetype association as we suggested :(
[10:13] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: and I hope that'll be done for hardy
[10:13] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i havent, no
[10:13] <Tonio_> it's too buggy and misses too many features to be used by default, ihmo
[10:14] <Tonio_> or in any case we should provide a way so that people can switch back to konqueror graphically
[10:15] <Lure> Tonio_: there is a way: remove dolphin package
[10:15] <Tonio_> Lure: which is not nice imho
[10:16] <Lure> Tonio_: why not - if they do not like it, they can remove it
[10:16] <Tonio_> Lure: coding a little component chooser kcm as there is for the web browser for example, that would be nice
[10:16] <Tonio_> Lure: hum, sure they can remove it
[10:17] <Tonio_> Lure: btw, I think that the default file manager has to be as stable as possible
[10:17] <Tonio_> Lure: and honnestly dolphin lacks too many features (ark integration) and is too buggy to be used by default
[10:17] <Tonio_> Lure: don't you think ?
[10:18] <Tonio_> Lure: there are a lot of criticisms over the web concerning that choice
[10:20] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: tbh, i havent been regularly using kubuntu since the release
[10:20] <Lure> Tonio_: I do my file mgmt in command line, so I do not cosider myself to be appropriate to make a decision on this ;-)
[10:21] <Tonio_> Lure: hehe ;)
[10:21]  * Lure is wondering if somebody can kick Hobbsee out of this channel ;-)
[10:21] <Jucato> !d3lphin
[10:21] <ubotu> Dolphin, or more properly D3lphin, is the new default file manager for Kubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon. If you would like to make Konqueror your default file manager again, go to Konqueror - Settings menu - Configure Konqueror - File Associations and change the association for inode/directory and inode/system_directory to Konqueror at the top rather than Dolphin.
[10:21] <Tonio_> Lure: I tried to use dolphin all day long, it quickly becomes pretty hard....
[10:21] <Lure> Tonio_: ^^^ that is not that bad
[10:22] <Tonio_> Lure: my mother would never come to this :)
[10:22] <Lure> thanks Hobbsee - i was expecting it ;-)
[10:22] <Tonio_> Lure: a way to graphically choose the default would be nice
[10:22] <Lure> Jucato: can we add something like this also to release notes and kubuntu.org?
[10:22] <Jucato> Tonio_, Lure: considering that the lead d3lphin developer seems to have stopped working on d3lphin, and since Hardy will be LTS, it might not be a good idea to leave it as default... unless we're willing to maintain d3lphin....
[10:22] <Hobbsee> Lure: :)
[10:23] <Jucato> s/lead/lone/
[10:23] <Tonio_> Lure: the reason I suggested to remove this as default was the lacking of this
[10:23] <Tonio_> Jucato: exactly
[10:23] <Tonio_> Jucato: if we can fix the bugs on it, then keep it
[10:24] <Tonio_> Jucato: but it's unlikely to be done I suspect....
[10:24] <Jucato> Tonio_: too many bugs, too many features lacking...
[10:24] <Tonio_> Jucato: features lacking -> appart from ark integration I don't agree
[10:25] <Tonio_> Jucato: bugs -> I definatelly agree
[10:25]  * Jucato considers lacking features as bugs too :P
[10:25]  * Hobbsee considers Jucato a bug :P
[10:25] <Jucato> imho, it's not really worth it, and indirectly biases users against dolphin in kde4...
[10:25] <Jucato> Hobbsee: please don't eat me :)
[10:25] <Hobbsee> mmm....tasty
[10:25] <Jucato> noooo!!!
[10:26]  * Hobbsee nibbles on Jucatofingers
[10:26] <Jucato> ey leave some for me!!! I'm starving!!
[12:27] <Serega> I have a suspiction my kubuntu-devel maillist subscription doesn't work :(
[12:29] <Serega> I have post two messages, but haven't recevied even my own letters
[12:30] <Serega> could anybody say me: how many letters was in kubuntu-devel during last 3-4 days?
[12:30] <Jucato> you don't receive your own messages afaik
[12:33] <Hobbsee> Serega: 2 from you
[12:38] <Serega> Jucato: I've set the preference to receive own
[12:38] <Serega> Hobbsee: and was there any mails from others?
[12:38] <Hobbsee> Serega: no
[12:39] <Jucato> Serega: well so far I've received both your e-mails
[12:39] <Serega> nice, maybe I only can't receive own
[12:39]  * Jucato has never been able to receive his own
[12:41] <Jucato> Topic: kubuntu dev needed http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3088379
[12:41] <Jucato> heheh :)
[12:43] <Serega> Jucato: cool!
[12:43] <Jucato> haha that's not from me. can't vouch for it either
[12:44] <Jucato> just came across it :)
[12:46] <Serega> Jucato: sounds like sponsoring kubuntu :)
[12:46] <Jucato> or just one developer to work for a private company :)
[12:47] <Hobbsee> i'd say the latter
[12:47] <Hobbsee> looks interesting, though
[12:47] <Serega> Jucato: but as I understand they should share their changes with community
[12:48] <Jucato> they should :)
[12:49] <Hobbsee> well, the post-config app easily could be
[12:49] <Hobbsee> id' imagine it to be something like kpersonalizer
[12:50] <Hobbsee> metapackage stuff is unsharable, anyway
[12:51] <Jucato> it is? aw...
[12:52] <Hobbsee> well, we wouldnt be replacing k-d with it :)
[12:52] <Jucato> definitely :)
[12:52] <dasKreech> hi all!
[12:52]  * Jucato hides in a korner
[12:53] <Serega> dasKreech: Hi!
[12:53]  * Jucato konceals in a korner, konsuming a kookie
[12:53]  * Serega laughs
[12:56] <dasKreech> hi Serega!!
[12:56]  * dasKreech hugs Jucato and Hobbsee
[12:57] <Jucato> *gasp* I was koncealed!!
[12:57]  * dasKreech konfound your koncealment!
[12:57] <dasKreech> Umm
[12:57]  * Hobbsee hugs dasKreech
[12:57] <dasKreech> no /me :)
[12:59]  * Hobbsee browses the forums
[12:59] <Hobbsee> "oh look, i removed what i didnt know about, and it killed my system"
[12:59] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yes. adept strikes again
[12:59] <Jucato> I don't blame them though
[13:00] <Jucato> that has been one of the most reported bug/complaint since I used Kubuntu...
[13:00] <Hobbsee> adept doesnt *do* autoremove, does it?
[13:01] <Jucato> no afaik.. but it doesn't warn you if something will remove everything as well :)
[13:02] <Jucato> if something, somehow, triggers a removal of a lot of packages, the only way you're going to get a clue that it's going to remove a lot of packages, is through the status bar...
[13:02] <Hobbsee> oh, true
[13:02] <dasKreech> oh hmm
[13:02] <dasKreech> never thought of that
[13:02] <Hobbsee> yes, i've long wished adept would actually show me the damned console, for big things.
[13:02] <dasKreech> I always check myself
[13:03] <dasKreech> Just part of hitting appy changes
[13:03] <Jucato> not many people actually expect that they would have to click on Review changes on their own
[13:03] <dasKreech> Thats's a good point
[13:04] <Jucato> oh shift! I've been DW'ed!
[13:04] <Hobbsee> DW'ed?
[13:04] <Serega> mmm... disc space delta can be seen in Adept's statusbar
[13:04] <Jucato> DistroWatched
[13:05] <Hobbsee> ahh
[13:05] <Jucato> at least it hasn't been dugg.... or worse, /.'ed !
[13:05] <Hobbsee> Serega: it's not absolutely clear, yes
[13:05] <dasKreech>  /me obligingly shifts
[13:05] <Serega> Hobbsee: size often is far from package count ;]
[13:06] <Hobbsee> oh, indeed
[13:06] <dasKreech> Serega: No if something may be more drastic than a user inteded it shuld be instantly obvious
[13:06] <dasKreech>  good UI
[13:06] <Jucato> unfortunately, mornfall has objected to any form of confirmation dialogs...
[13:06] <dasKreech> Now Jucato  did you want a bit shift a paradigm shift or a quantum shift?
[13:07] <Jucato> organic shift
[13:07] <Jucato> morning jjesse!
[13:07] <dasKreech> Jucato: Good thing we can patch his app eh?
[13:07] <jjesse> evening Jucato
[13:07] <dasKreech> Well I wonder if we can have a first run tutorial for adept
[13:08] <Jucato> er... no...
[13:08] <Jucato> remember, "we hate first-run-everything!"
[13:08] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: first run things are evil.
[13:08] <Hobbsee> although i note synaptic has one
[13:08] <dasKreech> Yes it does
[13:08] <Serega> :)
[13:08] <dasKreech> and ours would be prettier
[13:08]  * Hobbsee tries removing ubuntu-desktop, and seeing what happens
[13:09] <dasKreech> in case mornfall had great objections to our letting people know that Adept is actually doingit's job
[13:09] <dasKreech> :-P
[13:09]  * Serega worders Hobbsee uses ubuntu-desktop
[13:09] <dasKreech> Serega: Shhhhhhhhh she'll poke you
[13:09] <dasKreech> !hobbsee
[13:09] <ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
[13:11] <Hobbsee> hum.
[13:11] <Hobbsee> apparently it says there are none to autoremove too
[13:11]  * Serega doesn't understand :(
[13:11] <Hobbsee> Serega: yes, i'm running ubuntu atm.
[13:12] <dasKreech> Hobbsee: try removing libgtk
[13:12] <Hobbsee> i'm not stupid.  i fixed X yesterday
[13:12]  * Hobbsee purges tracker again
[13:12] <dasKreech> well libkde4a2c then
[13:12] <Hobbsee> i'd prefer to keep amarok :)
[13:12] <dasKreech> That should strip out all KDE packages
[13:12] <Hobbsee> but yes, it does warn things if you remove dependancies
[13:13] <Hobbsee> er, it does warn about what it will remove
[13:13] <dasKreech> Not like you are hitting apply just want to see if it would remove stuff right?
[13:13] <Hobbsee> allthough, i suspect the guy is a feisty user
[13:13] <Hobbsee> i wanted to test autoremove :)
[13:15]  * dasKreech hands everyone pitchforks to chase Jucato
[13:16] <Serega> what's wrong with Jucato?
[13:17] <dasKreech> oh he's expecting to be chased for his Blog entry :)
[13:17] <Serega> dasKreech: blog entry?
[13:17] <dasKreech> Can't dissapoint now can we :)
[13:17] <dasKreech> http://jucato.org/blog/quo-vadis-kubuntu/
[13:23]  * Jucato is soooo dead...
[13:24]  * dasKreech pokes him with a pitchforK
[13:24]  * Jucato kries...
[13:24] <dasKreech> Seems alive
[13:26] <dasKreech> Right
[13:26] <dasKreech> breakfast
[13:31] <Serega> Jucato: "Why have we started to define ourselves, define our features, define our roadmap, based on what Ubuntu has?" Perfect!
[13:32] <nixternal> Riddell: In regards the covermount, would it be possible we download Kubuntu 7.10 via
[13:32] <nixternal> FTP? L+DVD features 2 4GB DVDs. Could you provide us with additional (any
[13:32] <nixternal> most popular) packages we could fill our 4GB DVD and devote it only to your
[13:32] <nixternal> distribution? Could you help me in this matter?
[13:32] <nixternal> any ideas? this is for the Linux+ article
[13:32] <Jucato> (oh nixternal's awayke.. time to hide)
[13:32] <Jucato> er... awake*
[13:32] <nixternal> muhehehe
[13:32] <Hobbsee> !visternal
[13:32] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[13:33] <nixternal> oh lord, just when you thought it was safe to go back in, Hobbsee shows up :p
[13:33] <Hobbsee> haha
[13:33] <Serega> Hobbsee: is there short funny message for all members?)
[13:33] <nixternal> !hobbsee
[13:33] <ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
[13:33] <dasKreech> Only the cool ones :)
[13:33] <nixternal> pretty much just us two I think
[13:34] <Serega> !dasKreech
[13:34] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about daskreech - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:34] <nixternal> hahah, only the superkool ones, remember that
[13:34] <Serega> heh
[13:34] <dasKreech> Right right
[13:34] <Serega> :)
[13:34] <dasKreech> the KrazyKool
[13:34] <Hobbsee> Serega: nope :)
[13:34] <Hobbsee> Serega: only some of the really strange ones, like nixternal :P
[13:34] <nixternal> and you too!
[13:34] <Serega> :-D
[13:34] <Jucato> she did say "some of the really strange ones" :D
[13:34] <Jucato> and since she has one...
[13:35] <nixternal> she is lord of the strange ones
[13:35]  * Jucato whistles innocently
[13:35] <Jucato> er lady...
[13:35] <nixternal> hehe
[13:35] <Jucato> or lord.. whichever she prefers
[13:35]  * Hobbsee is a green alien.
[13:35] <Hobbsee> lady.
[13:35] <nixternal> hahaha
[13:36] <nixternal> you want to talk about confusing...Dolphin shows <b>IP ADDRESS</b> in the status bar when connecting to SFTP, yet Konqueror shows the IP bolded and not the raw tags
[13:37] <nixternal> I have gone through konqi's code, dolphin's code, and kstatusbar.h, as well as the io slave code for sftp, and it is one big circle
[13:37] <nixternal> I need to look at dolphin and konqi and see how they are handling the kstatusbar
[13:38] <Jucato> d3lphin has always been funKy
[13:38] <dasKreech> ehy dolphin's aren't the smartest creatures on earth
[13:38] <dasKreech>  mice are
[13:39] <Jucato> and yet only roaches will survive!
[13:40] <Serega> :)
[13:48] <dasKreech> All from Chicago
[13:49] <dasKreech> Jucato: ping
[13:49] <Jucato> pong
[13:49] <dasKreech> reading the comments on DW ?
[13:50] <Jucato> about 15 minutes ago
[13:52] <Serega> DW published a link to the blog?
[13:52] <dasKreech> KDE is not modular?
[13:52] <Jucato> (un)fortunately, DW did...
[13:52] <dasKreech> Hey it's not digg
[13:53] <Jucato> dasKreech: I intend to blog about that misconception soon. but I need to get more technical confirmation :)
[13:53]  * dasKreech points handily at webkit/KHTML
[13:53]  * Jucato won't even start about that
[13:56] <dasKreech> good proof though
[13:59] <Riddell> Tonio_: pong
[14:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: hey ;)
[14:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: how was the UDS ?
[14:00] <Serega> Riddell: hi
[14:00] <Riddell> nixternal: pardon?
[14:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: wanted to get your opinion on dolphin.... I got a lot of very negative comments about its integration by default....
[14:00] <Riddell> I think I'll have to close my laptop in a moment
[14:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: I was just thinking about the next LTS release, if you think about keep this or switch back to konqueror
[14:01] <Riddell> Tonio_: I can't see much point in removing it, they'll have to get used to it soon
[14:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: better fix bugs in it then ?
[14:01] <dasKreech> Gnome couldn't possibly have that discussion
[14:01] <_buz> Tonio_: here's one more, i absolutely hate the thing
[14:02] <dasKreech> Jucato_: Who's this now?
[14:02]  * dasKreech passes out torches
[14:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: well I have to go in a meeting at work, better discuss this when I'm on my contrib day :)
[14:05] <nixternal> Riddell: that is for the Linux+ article on Kubuntu I guess I am doing...she wants to know what else besides the Kubuntu DVD we can give her I guess
[14:06] <jjesse> nixternal: which article are you writing?  i was/am supposed to do one as well
[14:06] <Jucato> yay for more articles! :D
[14:06] <nixternal> jjesse: I thought so, but you never responded....it needs to be done quickly
[14:06] <nixternal> I have been chatting with Linux+ for the past week or so via email
[14:06] <jjesse> nixternal: ah ok, i sent him an email that i was swamped at UDS boston and could get to it next week
[14:06] <dasKreech> The certs guys>
[14:07] <jjesse> nixternal: but if yo ugot it done
[14:07] <dasKreech> ?
[14:07] <jjesse> thats cool
[14:07] <nixternal> jjesse: I don't have it done, because I didn't want to step on toes if you were already doing it
[14:07] <jjesse> nixternal: ah i havne't started it
[14:08] <nixternal> possible for you to have it done in the next couple of days?
[14:08] <jjesse> umm probablly not, looking at schedule
[14:08] <jjesse> flying to australia on wendesay and pretty swamped :(
[14:08] <nixternal> I guess the deadline for the article in order to be in the next issue is this week
[14:09] <nixternal> damn, flying to australia, is that near chicago :p
[14:10] <Jucato> hm... australia.. near here... I think :P
[14:10] <nixternal> jjesse: this isn't going to be our only article from the looks of it:
[14:11] <nixternal> Would you like to contribute to start WITH (an installation and configuration
[14:11] <nixternal> articles) or News Section (regular section with short articles on
[14:11] <nixternal> newly-released Linux-based products, programs, distributions) ?
[14:11] <jjesse> Jucato: i bet it isn't that far from the phillipines
[14:11] <nixternal> it seems we will have more Kubuntu articles as well as news in their magazine as well
[14:11] <jjesse> nixternal: that would be great
[14:12] <_buz> Jucato: where in the philippines do you live?
[14:12] <nixternal> OK, I will work on getting this one started...are you going to be available via email so I could send it to you for ideas, clarification, and proofing?
[14:12] <jjesse> nixternal: yeah i'm taking my laptop w/ me and i'm teaching a class all week so i'll be avialable
[14:12] <nixternal> or are you going to be busy working and going out and exploring the outback :)
[14:13] <Jucato> _buz: Laguna.. near Metro Manila
[14:13] <nixternal> The Gorilla in Manila
[14:13] <Jucato> hehe! I'm not a big man like you :P
[14:13] <_buz> i was in manila and boracay in 2003, still the most beautiful beach i've seen
[14:13] <Jucato> wow!! you've been to boracay?! I haven't D
[14:13] <Jucato> :D
[14:14] <_buz> definitely recommended, even if its somewhat hard to get there ;)
[14:14] <dasKreech> Jucato: Do you have your webserver stats?
[14:14] <Jucato> dasKreech: nope
[14:14] <nixternal> Jucato: jjesse is begger than I am...he has me by about 8 inches and a 100 pounds...talk about scary
[14:14] <dasKreech> damn
[14:14] <jjesse> nixternal: oncea again you are a liar
[14:14] <nixternal> hahhaha
[14:14] <jjesse> :P
[14:14] <Jucato> but I wonder who has the scarier face :)
[14:15] <nixternal> I am beautiful, so it would be jjesse  :p
[14:15] <Jucato> lol
[14:15] <Jucato> I'm actually lol'ing in my room.. my mom looked strangely at me :)
[14:15] <nixternal> hahaha
[14:15] <dasKreech> nixternal! the new face of Kubuntu! Bridging the Vista between us all
[14:16] <Jucato> jjesse: would you be meeting up with Hobbsee? or will she be sending her LongPointyStick as proxy? :)
[14:16] <Hobbsee> that's the plan, but i hadnt realised it was so close to exams
[14:17]  * dasKreech doesn't even want to imagine the proxy arrangement
[14:17] <jjesse> that's a bummer, it would have been nice to meet sarah
[14:17] <Jucato> yeah...
[14:17] <Jucato> although I'd definitely be scared of her height..
[14:17] <Jucato> or all your heights for that matter :)
[14:17] <nixternal> you would have come home poked full of holes, so I don't see what is so nice about that :p
[14:17]  * dasKreech chuckles
[14:18]  * Jucato Chuckies
[14:18]  * nixternal sneezes
[14:18] <dasKreech> Wrong caps wrongcap!! My eyes oooh my eyes!!!
[14:18] <Hobbsee> jjesse: how long are you here for?
[14:18] <jjesse> i arrive on Friday morning and fly out the next friday
[14:19] <nixternal> damn, and you just said you are leaving wednesday..that is nuts
[14:19] <nixternal> but you are leaving on their thursday
[14:19] <Hobbsee> jjesse: right, OK
[14:19] <Hobbsee> jjesse: how busy are you over the week, and where will yo ube?
[14:19] <nixternal> youtube?
[14:20] <Jucato> lol
[14:20] <jjesse> Hobbsee: during the day i'm pretty busy, during the night don't know... my wife is traveling w/. me
[14:20] <Jucato> oh....
[14:20] <Hobbsee> jjesse: ah, cool.
[14:20] <Jucato> Hobbsee will get to meet the missus...
[14:20] <nixternal> just look out your window, you might catch them two running by
[14:20]  * Hobbsee notes that the canonical people are all still away
[14:21] <nixternal> mentally?
[14:21] <nixternal> :D
[14:21] <dasKreech> probably
[14:21] <jjesse> i'm right downtown, http://www.vibehotels.com.au/default.asp?page=/vibe+locations/sydney+hotels/vibe+hotel+sydney
[14:21] <jjesse> is the hotel i'm at
[14:22]  * Hobbsee nods
[14:22] <jjesse> that was recommend by the company i'm comming for
[14:23] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[14:23] <jjesse> so i guess i'll be right downtown
[14:23] <Hobbsee> yup
[14:24] <Hobbsee> on the city circle and whatnot.
[14:24] <Jucato> downstream...
[14:24] <Jucato> salmon...
[15:23] <bddebian> Heya
[15:24] <Jucato> hi ya bddebian!
[15:24] <jjesse> boo
[15:24] <bddebian> Hi Jucato
[15:24] <bddebian> and jjesse :)
[16:10] <Riddell> nixternal: KDE 4 packages I guess, depending on deadline
[16:10] <jjesse> morning Riddell
[16:11] <Riddell> hola jjesse
[16:11] <jjesse> wow has anyone been following the wiki page in regards to the Hardy Theme?  Everyone has comments, i feel sorry for kwwii
[16:15] <Riddell> nixternal: fridge story? http://canllaith.org/?page_id=48
[16:37] <jjesse_> man terrible connection today, can't figure out why
[19:30] <jjesse_> can't belive it might snow tonight :(
[19:31] <bobesponja> jjesse_: what's wrong with snow?
[19:32] <jjesse_> i like snow, its just a bit early
[19:33] <Riddell> it's certainly freezing in here
[19:33] <Riddell> but that has more to do with the air conditioning
[19:38] <jjesse_> well adjust the air conditioning then ;)
[19:40] <Riddell> it's behind lock and key
[19:40] <jjesse_> think of it as a hack to change it
[19:43] <fdoving> looking glass looks cool.
[19:53] <seele> snow?  in Boston?  who'da thunk (it *is* November :)
[19:53] <Tm_T> we still dont have snow :(
[19:53] <Tm_T> but sun at its highest reaches over horizon still
[19:54] <jjesse_> seele: i'm not in boston
[19:54] <seele> ah
[20:18] <nixternal> yay, SNOW TONIGHT!
[20:18] <nixternal> jjesse_: you should be fine though since you are on the east side of the lake...water is still a bit warm isn't it?
[20:18] <DaSkreech> Yay Snow... well never here
[20:18] <Riddell> nixternal: just in time for guy falkes night
[20:19] <DaSkreech> Maybe the Day after tomorrow? :)
[20:19] <nixternal> what?
[20:19] <nixternal> guy falkes night?
[20:19] <DaSkreech> Remember remember the Fifth of november ?
[20:19] <DaSkreech> Don't remember that?
[20:19] <Riddell> DaSkreech: gunfire, treason and plot
[20:19] <jjesse_> guy fawkes day
[20:19] <jjesse_> right?
[20:19] <nixternal> fawkes
[20:19] <nixternal> ya
[20:20] <Riddell> that's the dude
[20:20] <nixternal> hahah
[20:20] <nixternal> gunpowder!
[20:20] <DaSkreech> silly yanks :)
[20:20] <Riddell> oh well, I'm not English :)
[20:21] <nixternal> me either :p
[20:22] <nixternal> I am a miraculous mix of polish, irish, swedish, italian, scottish, american indian, and I am sure there are more in there
[20:23] <DaSkreech> And two peopel who were born in the UN building
[20:23] <DaSkreech> As long as you aren't a green alien possibly from Uranus
[20:23] <Riddell> UN building is one of the few parts of New York I have to see now, after my weekend visit
[20:24] <jjesse_> ah you went to NY over the weekend?  that's fun
[20:24] <DaSkreech> What happens if you are born in the UN building?
[20:24] <DaSkreech> Countries wait to see if you become really succesful before claiming you?
[20:39] <nixternal> Riddell: posted story on fridge and did a ping to the fridge list for approval
[20:41] <Riddell> thanks nixternal
[20:42] <nixternal> no problem
[20:45] <Serega> Riddell: John?
[20:46] <nixternal> man, canllaith works up kubuntu and then troy kills it
[20:46] <DaSkreech> nixternal: ?
[20:46] <buz_> not just troy two posts in a row
[20:46] <Riddell> Serega: hi (but I don't use silent h's)
[20:46] <manchicken> Man, I guess Ubuntu still has just as many trolls as Debian.
[20:47] <manchicken> nixternal: So is KDE4b4 on the repos?
[20:47] <Serega> Riddell: Hi (can't understand about silent h's) :)
[20:48] <Serega> Riddell: could you talk with me about my task?
[20:49] <nixternal> manchicken: it is in the ppa...now if you are using that lpia stuff then you are butt out of luck
[20:49] <manchicken> lpia?
[20:49] <Riddell> Serega: kaffeine codec install?
[20:49] <nixternal> need to recheck the builds and reup the package so it can rebuild
[20:49] <Serega> Riddell: yes
[20:49] <nixternal> Riddell: did you get back any fails on kdebase*
[20:49] <manchicken> Ah.
[20:50] <nixternal> I got some messages back from LP about some packages not building, which, besides the lpia ones, were the i386 ones...it seems their deps hadn't completed building before they were uploaded
[20:50] <Serega> Riddell: did you read my recent message in mailing list? I just feel some frustration and dunno what to do
[20:52] <Riddell> Serega: I don't think so, I'm behind on my e-mail
[20:52] <Riddell> what's the subject?
[20:52] <nixternal> we need to setup a meeting and check over stuff we did with 7.10 and really see if it was the best choices....anyone agree/disagree on this?
[20:53] <Serega> Riddell: libxine doesn't report any errors on attempt to play divx avi with no codecs
[20:53] <Riddell> Serega: found it
[20:53] <Riddell> nixternal: we need a kubuntu meeting at some point anyway
[20:54] <nixternal> when are you back and free?
[20:55] <Riddell> nixternal: this week would be possible most US times, next week after monday
[20:55] <Riddell> Serega: I confirm
[20:55] <Riddell> Serega: possibly tracking down the dude who did the code for amarok would help
[20:57] <nixternal> thursday, friday, saturday this week?
[20:57] <nixternal> tomorrow I will be at a christian college installing and consulting on a fairly nice sized *buntu install for absolutely FREE!
[20:57] <nixternal> Of course, I am pushing Kubuntu on their desktops and laptops!
[20:58] <DaSkreech> So notreally that much * then
[20:58] <nixternal> ubuntu server, and there will be about a 50/50 with ubuntu and kubuntu
[20:58] <nixternal> on the desktops
[20:58] <manchicken> nixternal: You need to get this KDE4 beta up and running ;)
[20:58] <Serega> nixternal: do not forget to apply apm fix to save the HDD's
[20:59] <nixternal> laptops will be personal choice...and lets just say when it comes to getting people to do something, I tend to be better at it than anyone else in the group :)
[20:59] <Serega> on laptops
[20:59] <DaSkreech> 50/50!
[20:59]  * DaSkreech shuns nixternal
[20:59] <nixternal> 5150!
[20:59] <DaSkreech> ah ha! Better :)
[20:59] <nixternal> DaSkreech: it is all about choice...if I put kubuntu on every machine, then I have killed the idea of choice haven't I?
[20:59] <manchicken> nixternal: Did you see that thing that Eddie and I are planning?
[20:59] <manchicken> nixternal: That's gonna be sweet.
[20:59] <nixternal> ya, feb sounds good
[21:00] <manchicken> Yup.
[21:00] <nixternal> you can count on my fat arse being there
[21:00] <nixternal> looks like I found a dev job too btw in Algonquin
[21:00] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Umm what about the rest of you to counter balance that?
[21:00] <nixternal> hopefully telecommute
[21:00] <manchicken> I put a talk in there about how we should be doing more apps where it's common backends with different GUI frontends.
[21:01] <nixternal> and the place is a unix shop, however there will be a little .NET programming to create a cross-platform tool
[21:01] <DaSkreech> Mono!
[21:01] <manchicken> Nice.
[21:01] <manchicken> Py!
[21:01] <DaSkreech> nixternal: What age school?
[21:01] <manchicken> I hope there's better support for Perl under KDE4... but I doubt it.
[21:01] <nixternal> it is a PHP, Perl, Python, Java, C++, .NET, MySQL, MSSQL, and I think that is about it
[21:01] <nixternal> DaSkreech: college
[21:02] <DaSkreech> Oh right college :)
[21:02] <DaSkreech> Edubuntu might not go over so well :)
[21:03] <nixternal> http://www.procedo.com/
[21:03] <nixternal> manchicken: ^^ that's the company there
[21:03] <nixternal> all data migration
[21:04] <manchicken> Neat.
[21:33] <manchicken> So have folks been moving over to hardy then?
[21:46]  * Serega rubs one's hands and smiles
[21:48] <DaSkreech> How do you rub one hand?
[21:48] <Riddell> Serega: oh?
[21:49] <Serega> DaSkreech: I suspect my Ru-En dictionary has betrayed me :)
[21:49] <Serega> Riddell: things go better! =)
[21:50] <DaSkreech> Serega: oh one's hands :)
[21:50] <Riddell> Serega: did amarok help?
[21:50] <DaSkreech> Serega: Sorry half asleep
[21:51] <Serega> Riddell: yeah, one minute into the source of amarok gived me a good avice
[21:51] <Serega> *gave
[21:51] <Serega> :)
[21:51] <Sime> Riddell: Hi, I've got a patch here for userconfig from someone. It adds permission based groups. (i.e. "Can use burner" etc) interested?
[21:51] <Riddell> Sime: oh jings, I've been meaning to look at that
[21:52] <Riddell> yes I'm interested, I suggested he do it
[21:52] <Sime> Riddell: well, someone sent me a patch which does that. It isn't i18n()ed. but it is a start.
[21:52] <Sime> ok, then. I'm busy with PyKDE4, stuff do want to handle it?
[21:53] <Riddell> Sime: what's the e-mail subject again?
[21:53] <nosrednaekim> go Sime!
[21:53]  * nosrednaekim <3 PyKDE
[21:53] <Sime> "New version of userconfig" from Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
[21:54] <Sime> I'll forward it
[21:54] <Riddell> Sime: I've got it
[21:54] <Sime> I didn't see that. It must be BCCed
[21:55] <Riddell> Sime: forward it to me anyway, maybe he sent you a different version
[21:55] <Riddell> I'll look at it tomorrow
[21:55] <Riddell> along with the docs nixternal made for the website
[21:55] <Sime> no worries.
[21:56] <Riddell> Sime: how is PyKDE4 in beta 4?  worth packaging?
[21:56] <Serega> Good night, fellows!
[21:56] <Serega> bye
[21:57] <Sime> Riddell: I don't know if it compiles in beta4. BIC stuff was done just before tagging...
[21:58] <Sime> Riddell: bad timing.
[22:02] <nosrednaekim> hmmm this might be interesting for those of you who were debating wether or not to put some restricted stuff on kubuntu.. http://www.osweekly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2689&Itemid=449
[22:08] <fdoving> Riddell: i removed ksplash and i like it. fyi.
[22:11] <DaSkreech> Is mplayer borken in Gutsy?
[22:13] <fdoving> DaSkreech: works for me, if it didn't break the last few days.
[22:13] <yuriy>  umm.. why does OO.o have a ubuntu logo on the splash screen
[22:13] <DaSkreech> Hmm
[22:14] <DaSkreech> can't seem to play vids
[22:14] <DaSkreech> I think this is the first time I've tried since the Gutsy upgrade
[22:14] <DaSkreech> I"ll hit it with something
[23:08] <Tm_T> uga: uga tsaga
[23:24] <nixternal> oi oi
[23:25] <Tm_T> sometimes I wonder who's who here
[23:25] <nixternal> me too
[23:26] <Tm_T> active ones is easy to know but umm, we dont have 60 active ones here
[23:26]  * gnomefreak semi active
[23:28] <Tm_T> gnomefreak: I know you, but there's several nicks I just cant say I have seen saying anything
[23:31]  * jjesse just got back from a run
[23:31] <jjesse> wow all this google open phone crap wheres the love for openmoko?
[23:32] <Tm_T> jjesse: its not google!
[23:32] <Tm_T> its not apple!
[23:32] <jjesse> yeah thats a bummer
[23:34] <n8k99> jjesse: couldn't find you in boston to give you a greet4ing, alas
[23:36] <nixternal> jjesse: I am very interested to see the Google stuff...Google has phone backing, openMoko has FIC only right now
[23:36] <nixternal> and openMoko hasn't even hit a development milestone yet, which were supposed to start a few months ago
[23:40] <jjesse> nixternal: google is hoping 2nd qtr of 2008 the first phone will ship
[23:40] <jjesse> hoping that is
[23:41] <nixternal> probably sooner than openMoko
[23:52] <IntuitiveNipple> Any ideas why kdelib's libkmid MidiPlayer component only plays the first note of a MIDI file (called from kmid) on x86_64 ?