[00:10] manchicken: how about making adept updater look like this: [00:10] manchicken: http://mhb.ath.cx/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/updater-suggested.png [00:11] manchicken: I must admit, I like simple dialogs for simple tasks [01:49] hmm... any reason packagekit hasn't already been packaged? [01:53] whoa? Kivio stencils for sale? O.o [01:54] yeah [01:54] you can also request stencils to be made for a price [01:54] if only kivio was good enough to be worth that.. [01:55] :) [01:55] * Jucato is still looking for a UI-wireframing app :) [01:55] if you find an OSS one, let me know [01:55] ive been looking for years [01:55] afaik dia is better than kivio, but still no match for visio [01:55] uh oh... :) [01:56] and since it is a major part of my job function, i cant waste time with a sub-par application [01:56] if you haven't found one for years... I doubt I can find one in a few hours :D [01:56] frustration is not a consultant's friend [01:56] yeah [01:57] :) [01:58] I haven't used Visio since like 1998....I heard it is gotten really good over the past few releases...maybe I will have to check it out [01:59] nixternal!!!! [01:59] nixternal: try to get an older version that doesnt have the ribbon [01:59] i still haven't figured it out [02:00] you can disable the ribbon and go back to classic view...I watched someone in class do it last week [02:00] ooh [02:00] * seele does that right now [02:00] installing Visio Pro 2007 now [02:00] is there a demo version of Visio? :D [02:00] I am sure there is [02:00] a demo version of a microsoft product? [02:01] heh, they actually have those now [02:01] hehe my diagramming wants are really simple... UML, Flowchart, generic diagrams, and possibly UI wireframing... Umbrello takes care of the first 2... [02:01] UML == Umbrello [02:02] I use Kivio for flowcharting [02:02] if I flowchart [02:02] UI wireframing I never did much of...I would alway draw it out in the UI dev software [02:02] :P [02:02] maybe next time I will read your entire sentence before commenting :p [02:03] * Jucato wants to specialize in UI (a bit of usability, but more on programming and desing) [02:03] er.. design [02:03] kivio's UML stencils are a bit... :) [02:04] I took 2 UI design courses, just finished up the 2nd one a couple of months ago [02:04] kool! [02:04] heh, the UI I used to program was nasty stuff [02:04] HMI Panels for Allen Bradley [02:04] it wasn't until we switched from the HMI panels to PCs where I got to do nice 3d panels [02:04] they actually have UI courses? sweet! :) [02:05] I know our universities here do, at least the ones I know [02:05] I just started taking CS courses...got my Bachelors at University of Maryland (GO TERPS!) in Business [02:07] only a few miles from here! [02:07] I bet that if there were ever any UI design-related courses/classes here, it would either be Java or Visual Foo [02:07] College Park baby! [02:07] my gf lives in CP [02:08] The only place I really frequented up there was Congressional Golf Course in Bethesda [02:08] and Chevy Chase, only because I almost bought a house there when I worked for Fannie Mae [02:08] holy smokes, I just downloaded 9mb in 2 seconds [02:14] seele: wow! there is a free trial of visio! lol! :D [02:14] of course I have to sign-in/up :P [02:15] haha [02:15] luckily I have a hotmail account... [02:16] interesting...my Visio 2007 Pro doesn't have the ribbon [02:26] hello nixternal and Jucato [02:26] jjesse!!! [02:26] back from UDS? [02:26] yeah got back friday night late [02:26] like 11:45 or so [02:26] jjesse: sorry I didn't say goodbye [02:27] thanks for coming [02:27] Riddell: no problem, i had a great time ,looking forward to the next one :) [02:28] Riddell: you guys in plymouth already? [02:28] yes, arrived this evening [02:28] we played the Canonical IRC Bingo game [02:28] which is? [02:29] a game of bingo with canonical names and you have to match 5 in a row of irc names [02:29] sounds like fun [02:31] howdy jjesse [02:31] howdy nixternal [02:32] hi hdevalence [02:32] hey guys, I want to experiment with kde/qt, but i think my moc is broken [02:32] hey [02:33] hdevalence: are you using qmake? [02:34] Riddell: either qmake or when I follow the instructions on the kde techbase tutorials or when i try to build someone else's program from source with ./configure and then make.. [02:34] none work [02:34] and I have the -dev packages installed [02:36] hdevalence: qt 3 or qt4? [02:36] Riddell: Both. [02:37] Riddell: Could that be what's causing the problem? [02:37] seele: what template do you use for wireframing? [02:37] hdevalence: it could be calling the moc from the wrong qt indeed [02:40] Riddel: Adept says I have libqt4-dev but I don't see a libqt3-dev [02:40] missing -mt [02:41] (libqt3-mt-dev) [02:41] oh yes I do have that [02:42] I also have qt4-dev-tools and qt3-dev-tools [02:43] I have all of the kde4 packages except kde4addons and kde4addons-data [02:43] be aware that if you use ./configure, you need to set the appropriate prefix [02:43] Qt prefix, that is. [02:44] I'm surmising you need /usr/share/qt4 [02:44] crimsun: How do I do that? [02:45] --with-qt-dir=/usr/share/qt4 [02:48] I hear that 8.04 will not include kde 4. Is this true? [02:48] kde4 will not be a part of the long term support release [02:49] there will be some ISO cretaed that will include KDE4 but not as a part of 8.04 [02:50] hi crimsun [02:50] (hi) [02:51] hdevalence: did that answer your question? [02:51] jjesse: so basically I can get an iso that uses kde3.5.etc OR an iso that uses kde4? [02:52] hdevalence: the long term supported version of 8.04 will include kde 3 [02:52] Jucato or Jucato_: Why UI? [02:52] dasKreech: why why UI? [02:52] so if you want long term suport you need to use 8.04 [02:52] hdevalence: you will be able to get a KDE 4 Live CD that is 7.10 [02:52] dasKreech: why why UI? [02:53] heh [02:53] I started looking at game design cause it's one of the few places taht still seriously review UI design [02:54] btw I think I like the OpenSuse cd more than the Debian KDE4 cd though the Debian is less annoying [02:55] dasKreech: I'm referring mostly to desktop GUI [02:55] I know [02:56] but there are generally so many assumptions there it's really annoying [02:56] Fitt's law giving you fits? :) [02:57] heehee [03:09] Hihi ^ ^ [03:09] Anyone played the new pingus? [03:10] crimsun: Would I be right in saying that pulseaudio would be a backend to phonon? [03:11] * Jucato is confuzzled about what he read about pulseaudio... [03:11] Yeah me too [03:12] sounds like a copy of Phonon without the multiple backends [03:12] if I read it correctly (from liquidat) it sits between ALSA and GStreamer/Xine... [03:12] while Phonon sits between the app and the backend... so it's not really like Phonon... [03:12] feature set sounds like it [03:12] which is why I'm confuzzled :) [03:13] But yeah it sounds like a backend to phonon [03:13] or a backend to Xine/Gstreamer... O.o [03:13] pulseaudio is a sound server, a replacement for esd or the mixer part of arts [03:13] Oh [03:13] now I am confused [03:13] :D [03:13] Riddell: sounds evil =) [03:13] I try not to dive into hardware and sound... :) [03:13] xine is mostly just a decoder, while gstreamer is a framework to do decoding or encoding [03:32] * dasKreech laughs [03:32] I told a friend that feisty was really solid but lacked a lot of nice features whereas gutsy has lots of features but bugs sprinkled around the place [03:32] he responded: So it became Windows? [03:49] nixternal: ping [04:06] dasKreech: pong [04:06] tried gos? [04:08] ya [04:09] thoughts? [04:09] not for me honestly, didn't boot on the intel core 2 [04:10] it felt like all flash and no go [04:10] So you gnash-ed your teeth? [04:10] heh [04:31] jjesse: are you writing that article for Linux+ or should I do it? I told the lady I would get back with her a week ago and I haven't yet [04:40] gOS... [05:08] nixternal: http://themasterchief.stumbleupon.com/review/13841275/ [05:27] heh, nice [05:57] FOG is Open Sorce [07:33] Hobbsee hobbs hob :) [07:37] hiya Jucato! [07:37] how's life so far? :D [07:37] too much crap to do :( [07:38] apart from that, good :) [07:38] heheh [07:38] * Jucato has a lot of stuff to do... but can't figure out how/when/where to start :/ [07:40] same here, pretty much [07:40] start with the stuff that needs doing first [07:42] * Jucato thinks hard... [07:42] I should probably do... hm.. chocolate! [07:47] mmm...chocolate... [10:11] hi everyone [10:11] Riddell: ping ? [10:11] he'll be asleep [10:12] ah ok [10:12] Hobbsee: did you notice the hudge criticisms dolphin by default receives ? [10:13] Hobbsee: we should have removed the default mimetype association as we suggested :( [10:13] Hobbsee: and I hope that'll be done for hardy [10:13] Tonio_: i havent, no [10:13] it's too buggy and misses too many features to be used by default, ihmo [10:14] or in any case we should provide a way so that people can switch back to konqueror graphically [10:15] Tonio_: there is a way: remove dolphin package [10:15] Lure: which is not nice imho [10:16] Tonio_: why not - if they do not like it, they can remove it [10:16] Lure: coding a little component chooser kcm as there is for the web browser for example, that would be nice [10:16] Lure: hum, sure they can remove it [10:17] Lure: btw, I think that the default file manager has to be as stable as possible [10:17] Lure: and honnestly dolphin lacks too many features (ark integration) and is too buggy to be used by default [10:17] Lure: don't you think ? [10:18] Lure: there are a lot of criticisms over the web concerning that choice [10:20] Tonio_: tbh, i havent been regularly using kubuntu since the release [10:20] Tonio_: I do my file mgmt in command line, so I do not cosider myself to be appropriate to make a decision on this ;-) [10:21] Lure: hehe ;) [10:21] * Lure is wondering if somebody can kick Hobbsee out of this channel ;-) [10:21] !d3lphin [10:21] Dolphin, or more properly D3lphin, is the new default file manager for Kubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon. If you would like to make Konqueror your default file manager again, go to Konqueror - Settings menu - Configure Konqueror - File Associations and change the association for inode/directory and inode/system_directory to Konqueror at the top rather than Dolphin. [10:21] Lure: I tried to use dolphin all day long, it quickly becomes pretty hard.... [10:21] Tonio_: ^^^ that is not that bad [10:22] Lure: my mother would never come to this :) [10:22] thanks Hobbsee - i was expecting it ;-) [10:22] Lure: a way to graphically choose the default would be nice [10:22] Jucato: can we add something like this also to release notes and kubuntu.org? [10:22] Tonio_, Lure: considering that the lead d3lphin developer seems to have stopped working on d3lphin, and since Hardy will be LTS, it might not be a good idea to leave it as default... unless we're willing to maintain d3lphin.... [10:22] Lure: :) [10:23] s/lead/lone/ [10:23] Lure: the reason I suggested to remove this as default was the lacking of this [10:23] Jucato: exactly [10:23] Jucato: if we can fix the bugs on it, then keep it [10:24] Jucato: but it's unlikely to be done I suspect.... [10:24] Tonio_: too many bugs, too many features lacking... [10:24] Jucato: features lacking -> appart from ark integration I don't agree [10:25] Jucato: bugs -> I definatelly agree [10:25] * Jucato considers lacking features as bugs too :P [10:25] * Hobbsee considers Jucato a bug :P [10:25] imho, it's not really worth it, and indirectly biases users against dolphin in kde4... [10:25] Hobbsee: please don't eat me :) [10:25] mmm....tasty [10:25] noooo!!! [10:26] * Hobbsee nibbles on Jucatofingers [10:26] ey leave some for me!!! I'm starving!! [12:27] I have a suspiction my kubuntu-devel maillist subscription doesn't work :( [12:29] I have post two messages, but haven't recevied even my own letters [12:30] could anybody say me: how many letters was in kubuntu-devel during last 3-4 days? [12:30] you don't receive your own messages afaik === apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger [12:33] Serega: 2 from you [12:38] Jucato: I've set the preference to receive own [12:38] Hobbsee: and was there any mails from others? [12:38] Serega: no [12:39] Serega: well so far I've received both your e-mails [12:39] nice, maybe I only can't receive own [12:39] * Jucato has never been able to receive his own [12:41] Topic: kubuntu dev needed http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3088379 [12:41] heheh :) [12:43] Jucato: cool! [12:43] haha that's not from me. can't vouch for it either [12:44] just came across it :) [12:46] Jucato: sounds like sponsoring kubuntu :) [12:46] or just one developer to work for a private company :) [12:47] i'd say the latter [12:47] looks interesting, though [12:47] Jucato: but as I understand they should share their changes with community [12:48] they should :) [12:49] well, the post-config app easily could be [12:49] id' imagine it to be something like kpersonalizer [12:50] metapackage stuff is unsharable, anyway [12:51] it is? aw... [12:52] well, we wouldnt be replacing k-d with it :) [12:52] definitely :) [12:52] hi all! [12:52] * Jucato hides in a korner [12:53] dasKreech: Hi! [12:53] * Jucato konceals in a korner, konsuming a kookie [12:53] * Serega laughs [12:56] hi Serega!! [12:56] * dasKreech hugs Jucato and Hobbsee [12:57] *gasp* I was koncealed!! [12:57] * dasKreech konfound your koncealment! [12:57] Umm [12:57] * Hobbsee hugs dasKreech [12:57] no /me :) [12:59] * Hobbsee browses the forums [12:59] "oh look, i removed what i didnt know about, and it killed my system" [12:59] Hobbsee: yes. adept strikes again [12:59] I don't blame them though [13:00] that has been one of the most reported bug/complaint since I used Kubuntu... [13:00] adept doesnt *do* autoremove, does it? [13:01] no afaik.. but it doesn't warn you if something will remove everything as well :) [13:02] if something, somehow, triggers a removal of a lot of packages, the only way you're going to get a clue that it's going to remove a lot of packages, is through the status bar... [13:02] oh, true [13:02] oh hmm [13:02] never thought of that [13:02] yes, i've long wished adept would actually show me the damned console, for big things. [13:02] I always check myself [13:03] Just part of hitting appy changes [13:03] not many people actually expect that they would have to click on Review changes on their own [13:03] Thats's a good point [13:04] oh shift! I've been DW'ed! [13:04] DW'ed? [13:04] mmm... disc space delta can be seen in Adept's statusbar [13:04] DistroWatched [13:05] ahh [13:05] at least it hasn't been dugg.... or worse, /.'ed ! [13:05] Serega: it's not absolutely clear, yes [13:05] /me obligingly shifts [13:05] Hobbsee: size often is far from package count ;] [13:06] oh, indeed [13:06] Serega: No if something may be more drastic than a user inteded it shuld be instantly obvious [13:06] good UI [13:06] unfortunately, mornfall has objected to any form of confirmation dialogs... [13:06] Now Jucato did you want a bit shift a paradigm shift or a quantum shift? [13:07] organic shift [13:07] morning jjesse! [13:07] Jucato: Good thing we can patch his app eh? [13:07] evening Jucato [13:07] Well I wonder if we can have a first run tutorial for adept [13:08] er... no... [13:08] remember, "we hate first-run-everything!" [13:08] dasKreech: first run things are evil. [13:08] although i note synaptic has one [13:08] Yes it does [13:08] :) [13:08] and ours would be prettier [13:08] * Hobbsee tries removing ubuntu-desktop, and seeing what happens [13:09] in case mornfall had great objections to our letting people know that Adept is actually doingit's job [13:09] :-P [13:09] * Serega worders Hobbsee uses ubuntu-desktop [13:09] Serega: Shhhhhhhhh she'll poke you [13:09] !hobbsee [13:09] I phear the stick so shhhhh [13:11] hum. [13:11] apparently it says there are none to autoremove too [13:11] * Serega doesn't understand :( [13:11] Serega: yes, i'm running ubuntu atm. [13:12] Hobbsee: try removing libgtk [13:12] i'm not stupid. i fixed X yesterday [13:12] * Hobbsee purges tracker again [13:12] well libkde4a2c then [13:12] i'd prefer to keep amarok :) [13:12] That should strip out all KDE packages [13:12] but yes, it does warn things if you remove dependancies [13:13] er, it does warn about what it will remove [13:13] Not like you are hitting apply just want to see if it would remove stuff right? [13:13] allthough, i suspect the guy is a feisty user [13:13] i wanted to test autoremove :) [13:15] * dasKreech hands everyone pitchforks to chase Jucato [13:16] what's wrong with Jucato? [13:17] oh he's expecting to be chased for his Blog entry :) [13:17] dasKreech: blog entry? [13:17] Can't dissapoint now can we :) [13:17] http://jucato.org/blog/quo-vadis-kubuntu/ [13:23] * Jucato is soooo dead... [13:24] * dasKreech pokes him with a pitchforK [13:24] * Jucato kries... [13:24] Seems alive [13:26] Right [13:26] breakfast [13:31] Jucato: "Why have we started to define ourselves, define our features, define our roadmap, based on what Ubuntu has?" Perfect! [13:32] Riddell: In regards the covermount, would it be possible we download Kubuntu 7.10 via [13:32] FTP? L+DVD features 2 4GB DVDs. Could you provide us with additional (any [13:32] most popular) packages we could fill our 4GB DVD and devote it only to your [13:32] distribution? Could you help me in this matter? [13:32] any ideas? this is for the Linux+ article [13:32] (oh nixternal's awayke.. time to hide) [13:32] er... awake* [13:32] muhehehe [13:32] !visternal [13:32] Oh no! The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived! He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too! [13:33] oh lord, just when you thought it was safe to go back in, Hobbsee shows up :p [13:33] haha [13:33] Hobbsee: is there short funny message for all members?) [13:33] !hobbsee [13:33] I phear the stick so shhhhh [13:33] Only the cool ones :) [13:33] pretty much just us two I think [13:34] !dasKreech [13:34] Sorry, I don't know anything about daskreech - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [13:34] hahah, only the superkool ones, remember that [13:34] heh [13:34] Right right [13:34] :) [13:34] the KrazyKool [13:34] Serega: nope :) [13:34] Serega: only some of the really strange ones, like nixternal :P [13:34] and you too! [13:34] :-D [13:34] she did say "some of the really strange ones" :D [13:34] and since she has one... [13:35] she is lord of the strange ones [13:35] * Jucato whistles innocently [13:35] er lady... [13:35] hehe [13:35] or lord.. whichever she prefers [13:35] * Hobbsee is a green alien. [13:35] lady. [13:35] hahaha [13:36] you want to talk about confusing...Dolphin shows IP ADDRESS in the status bar when connecting to SFTP, yet Konqueror shows the IP bolded and not the raw tags [13:37] I have gone through konqi's code, dolphin's code, and kstatusbar.h, as well as the io slave code for sftp, and it is one big circle [13:37] I need to look at dolphin and konqi and see how they are handling the kstatusbar [13:38] d3lphin has always been funKy [13:38] ehy dolphin's aren't the smartest creatures on earth [13:38] mice are [13:39] and yet only roaches will survive! [13:40] :) [13:48] All from Chicago [13:49] Jucato: ping [13:49] pong [13:49] reading the comments on DW ? [13:50] about 15 minutes ago [13:52] DW published a link to the blog? [13:52] KDE is not modular? [13:52] (un)fortunately, DW did... [13:52] Hey it's not digg [13:53] dasKreech: I intend to blog about that misconception soon. but I need to get more technical confirmation :) [13:53] * dasKreech points handily at webkit/KHTML [13:53] * Jucato won't even start about that [13:56] good proof though [13:59] Tonio_: pong [14:00] Riddell: hey ;) [14:00] Riddell: how was the UDS ? [14:00] Riddell: hi [14:00] nixternal: pardon? [14:00] Riddell: wanted to get your opinion on dolphin.... I got a lot of very negative comments about its integration by default.... [14:00] I think I'll have to close my laptop in a moment [14:00] Riddell: I was just thinking about the next LTS release, if you think about keep this or switch back to konqueror [14:01] Tonio_: I can't see much point in removing it, they'll have to get used to it soon [14:01] Riddell: better fix bugs in it then ? [14:01] Gnome couldn't possibly have that discussion [14:01] <_buz> Tonio_: here's one more, i absolutely hate the thing [14:02] Jucato_: Who's this now? [14:02] * dasKreech passes out torches [14:02] Riddell: well I have to go in a meeting at work, better discuss this when I'm on my contrib day :) [14:05] Riddell: that is for the Linux+ article on Kubuntu I guess I am doing...she wants to know what else besides the Kubuntu DVD we can give her I guess [14:06] nixternal: which article are you writing? i was/am supposed to do one as well [14:06] yay for more articles! :D [14:06] jjesse: I thought so, but you never responded....it needs to be done quickly [14:06] I have been chatting with Linux+ for the past week or so via email [14:06] nixternal: ah ok, i sent him an email that i was swamped at UDS boston and could get to it next week [14:06] The certs guys> [14:07] nixternal: but if yo ugot it done [14:07] ? [14:07] thats cool [14:07] jjesse: I don't have it done, because I didn't want to step on toes if you were already doing it [14:07] nixternal: ah i havne't started it [14:08] possible for you to have it done in the next couple of days? [14:08] umm probablly not, looking at schedule [14:08] flying to australia on wendesay and pretty swamped :( [14:08] I guess the deadline for the article in order to be in the next issue is this week [14:09] damn, flying to australia, is that near chicago :p [14:10] hm... australia.. near here... I think :P [14:10] jjesse: this isn't going to be our only article from the looks of it: [14:11] Would you like to contribute to start WITH (an installation and configuration [14:11] articles) or News Section (regular section with short articles on [14:11] newly-released Linux-based products, programs, distributions) ? [14:11] Jucato: i bet it isn't that far from the phillipines [14:11] it seems we will have more Kubuntu articles as well as news in their magazine as well [14:11]