[01:00] <jjesse> interseting on bzr merge for kubuntu-hardy i get /home/jameinel/dev/mdke/ubuntu-hardy is not a branch?
[01:00] <jjesse> working under kubuntu-hardy
[01:01] <LaserJock> jjesse: what are you merging?
[01:01] <jjesse> LaserJock: hrmm got messed up
[01:04] <LaserJock> jjesse: that reminds me, I need to push edubuntu-hard :/
[01:07] <LaserJock> jjesse: yikes, good luck with that serverguide thing ;-)
[01:11] <jjesse> LaserJock: the server time is excited about it
[01:11] <jjesse> spent a lot of time talking documentation w/ them during uds
[01:12] <LaserJock> yeah, I noticed
[01:12] <LaserJock> I would like to see them work with/in the doc team
[01:13] <LaserJock> jjesse: but I think one of the concerns mdke had about going to bzr was creating too many branches
[01:14] <jjesse> LaserJock: well it currently is way hard to find out what the current server guide is
[01:14] <jjesse> meant where
[01:14] <LaserJock> jjesse: sure, but if you're in the doc team it's easy
[01:15] <jjesse> LaserJock: but if your in teh server team and want to contribute
[01:22] <LaserJock> jjesse: join the doc team
[01:22] <LaserJock> is my point
[01:27] <jjesse> LaserJock: I already am a part of the doc team
[01:27] <jjesse> LaserJock: think on it from the view point of somoene who is on the server team and wants to help with the docs
[01:27] <jjesse> how does that happen?
[01:27] <jjesse> and before you say it won't, they have a specific role in the server team to work on documentation
[01:31] <LaserJock> right
[01:31] <LaserJock> but that's what I'm saying
[01:31] <LaserJock> if they want to work on docs they should maybe join the doc team
[01:31] <jjesse> force them to join thedoc team to contribute?
[01:37] <LaserJock> yes
[01:38] <LaserJock> essentially
[01:38] <jjesse> ok interesting
[05:17] <tonyyarusso> mdke: were you the dreamhost customer?
[05:18] <michael_mac> tonyyarusso: i am a DH customer
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> michael_mac: What are your thoughts so far?
[05:19] <michael_mac> they have had some issues when I first joined them (apr 2006)
[05:20] <michael_mac> but I have not had any problems since then
[05:20] <michael_mac> they had a couple of outages, but then you know, that is a possibility for any host
[05:20] <tonyyarusso> how long were they?
[05:22] <michael_mac> not more than 4 hours, if i recall
[05:22] <tonyyarusso> ah, okay
[05:23] <michael_mac> the couple of times that I had to use support, they were very responsive and helped me solve my problem
[05:28] <tonyyarusso> Good to know.
[05:29] <LaserJock> michael_mac: ever get dugg or ./'d?
[05:29] <michael_mac> no
[05:29] <LaserJock> that's what I'm worried about
[05:30] <michael_mac> well, that can take down anyone though...
[05:30] <LaserJock> I've occasionally heard that they shut down accounts
[05:32] <michael_mac> actually, a budy of mine got dugg and was down for almost 48 hrs
[05:32] <michael_mac> buddy*
[05:32] <michael_mac> "After several go-rounds with my webhost?s support staff, things seem to be back to normal."
[05:33] <michael_mac> not sure what that entailed
[05:34] <nixternal> Dreamhost will only shut down accounts if you abuse them...thus far I haven't had any issues
[05:34] <LaserJock> yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm worried about
[05:35] <nixternal> plus, you can get support right here on IRC :)
[05:35] <LaserJock> nixternal: I've heard of people's accounts getting messed up because of being dugg
[05:35] <nixternal> and, you get shell access
[05:36] <nixternal> I have been through a digg and a slashdot for the Classroom thing we did last year with the new user network
[05:36] <nixternal> nothing happened to me
[05:36] <nixternal> and my sight was toast
[05:36] <michael_mac> that seems a little ridiculous to me
[05:36] <LaserJock> nixternal: what do you mean by toast?
[05:36] <michael_mac> especially in this age of digg and /.
[05:36] <nixternal> LaserJock: you couldn't look at it
[05:37] <nixternal> they dont have the digg /. clause anymore, because they realised it isn't your fault
[05:37] <michael_mac> there is no way a host can guarantee being able to survive a digg
[05:37] <LaserJock> nixternal: right, but I've heard that dreamhost doesn't withstand getting dugg well
[05:37] <LaserJock> they turn you off before you reach your bandwidth limit, etc.
[05:37] <nixternal> probably don't, but that is what you get with any "low-price" hosting account
[05:38] <michael_mac> I will say this...I am totally happy with DH
[05:38] <michael_mac> I have two blogs on it and just put our Alabama LoCo blog on it
[05:38] <nixternal> michael_mac: I am with you
[05:38] <michael_mac> If I get dugg, and my site goes down, so be it
[05:39] <nixternal> plus the referrals are a nice addition
[05:39] <michael_mac> I don't run ads on any of my sites, so it is no skin off of my back
[05:39] <nixternal> I have had enough referrals to pay for my account for the next few years
[05:40] <michael_mac> my Productivity blog has over 5600 subscribers, so I have traffic
[05:40] <michael_mac> Laserjock: what exactly are you worried about?
[05:41] <LaserJock> running a blog and having downtime
[05:42] <michael_mac> ok, so what does the downtime cost you?>
[05:43] <nixternal> the only downtime I have had in the past year was really due to me shutting off the wp cache
[05:44] <nixternal> I am on the mt. dew server and it has been pretty rock solid...even the recent power outtages out there didn't even effect my service
[05:45] <LaserJock> michael_mac: well, if you've got a popular post and you're down that's no good
[05:45] <michael_mac> but it will be there when the site is back up
[05:46] <LaserJock> sure
[05:46] <LaserJock> but the downtime can be a bit costly
[05:46] <LaserJock> it's not bad
[05:46] <michael_mac> how?
[05:46] <LaserJock> well, you lose people when the get a 404
[05:47] <michael_mac> not in this day of RSS feeds, you don't
[05:47] <nixternal> lol, I was gonna say...da planet, da planet :)
[05:47] <michael_mac> I RARELY visit the actual site of any of the 110+ blogs in my reader
[05:47] <michael_mac> I would not even notice the outage unless someone else is talking about it
[05:48] <michael_mac> then I would go to the site, and it would be down
[05:48] <LaserJock> hmm, true
[05:48] <michael_mac> i would watch for it to reappear in my reader then move on with my day
[05:49] <michael_mac> I really struggle with the design of my sites nowadays because of the feed reader revolution
[05:50] <michael_mac> why waste my time making it pretty when 90% of the readers will only see the text
[05:50] <michael_mac> Don't even get me started on abbreviated feeds
[05:50] <michael_mac> I will drop a blog in NO TIME flat that abbreviates their feeds
[05:51] <LaserJock> yeah, most of the feeds I read do that
[05:51] <LaserJock> really annoying
[05:51] <michael_mac> i think that it is a ploy to get you to the site to activate their ads
[05:52] <michael_mac> another reason that I drop them
[05:53] <michael_mac> well, NOW I am going to bed...
[05:53] <michael_mac> have a nice day/evening/night to all
[05:54] <somerville32> night
[08:11] <mdke> morning
[11:10] <ubotu> New bug: #160435 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Typo in template "hardware" (Gutsy)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160435
[14:11] <nixternal> http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/article.php/3709221
[14:11] <nixternal> ^^ server folks read this too...
[14:12] <nixternal> she actually provides a little constructive criticism at least
[14:15] <michaelramm> tonyyarusso: Did you get your Dreamhost questions answered adaquately last night?
[14:15] <tonyyarusso> michaelramm: pretty much
[14:16] <michaelramm> ok, I know that nixternal is a supporter also, but if you have any more questions, feel free to hit me at michael AT 1manit DOT net
[14:16] <tonyyarusso> sure
[14:17] <sommer> nixternal: good article... I'm now on a quest to help make Ubuntu the best documented Linux distor ever... :)
[14:19] <sommer> Does the doc team contribute to the release notes ?
[14:22] <nixternal> don't know on the Ubuntu side if they do, but Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and Xubuntu docs people do
[14:24] <sommer> ah... I guess knowing there's a problem is half the battle, heh
[14:26] <michaelramm> So, I posed this question after the "debate" yesterday when matt and nix left for awhile...
[14:26] <michaelramm> **this is coming from a 1 week veteran of the DocTeam **
[14:27] <michaelramm> is the problem not enough people to do the documentation, or not enough 'trained' people to do the documentation?
[14:29] <sommer> michaelramm: I'm still pretty new too, but from the ML it seems like there is a lot of folks in the mentoring program.
[14:30] <sommer> so maybe's it's a training issue?
[14:30] <michaelramm> sommer: i am interested in doing that also, i need to set up the bzr stuff and start learning docbook
[14:31] <sommer> michaelramm: I haven't found DocBook to be really that hard, but most of my contribution has been edits/expansions of current docs.
[14:31] <michaelramm> nixternal: who 'runs' the mentoring program?
[14:31] <sommer> I think once you learn the tags and how the docs are structured it's pretty smooth sailing
[14:31] <nixternal> michaelramm: not enough people
[14:32] <nixternal> mentoring program was created by Phil Bull, so I would blame him :)
[14:34] <michaelramm> So do the 'veterans' just pick someone off of the list and help them (if they have the same interests)? Or does someone assign them to someone in the area that they are interested in?
[14:43] <sommer> michaelramm: from what I can tell you send a message to the list requesting a mentor, Phil responds asking what you're interested in
[14:44] <sommer> you're free to work on whatever area you'd like, and if you have any questions you can ask here an on the ML
[14:45] <sommer> you should be aware that the above may not be entirely accurate, just my interpretation of how things work
[14:46] <michaelramm> sommer: i just read your wiki page...very interesting views on server and doc
[14:46] <sommer> for example every patch I've submitted has been QA'd by bhuvan, who then either commits it or gives feed back
[14:46] <sommer> michaelramm: heh... thanks, just my ramblings
[14:54] <rgreening> hey, if someone wanted to write a book for ubuntu, what is the process? Any support places I could go and research?
[14:56] <michaelramm> rgreening: what kind of book would you like to write?
[14:57] <rgreening> I was looking at writing something focused on KDE/Kubuntu, as there seems to be little in the way of KDE desktops written. It would be a moving to Kubuntu for beginners (at least thet['s my thoughts. I have successfully converted 5 people so far, and would like to reach a broader audience
[14:57] <rgreening> I have been using and developing for Linux since '93, and work in the telecommunications industry.
[14:58] <rgreening> I've used many distro's and have recently switched to Kubuntu (from Gentoo).
[14:59] <rgreening> Given the future direction of KDE4 and it being ported to windows, I feel there is a need to provide a transitional from Windows w/ KDE Apps to Kubuntu
[14:59] <rgreening> Does this sound interesting?
[15:02] <rgreening> Any ideas where I can get started?
[15:05] <WaltzingAlong> the beginning
[15:05] <rgreening> lol
[15:06] <rgreening> I mean, who do I approach to see if this idea will fly, get permission and who to submit a treatise/draft, etc to.
[15:06] <rgreening> Writing the book will be easy.
[15:06] <rgreening> Getting support and published if there is interest is what I need to garner
[15:07] <rgreening> I'd also like to make the book available online with Kubuntu/Ubuntu as part of their documentation.
[15:07] <rgreening> as a way of contributing
[15:52] <michaelramm> morning, jjesse
[16:23] <jjesse> morning michaelramm
[16:58] <actuallypopular> hey guys, I was reading some docs and noticed that the xubuntu hardy docs don't actually talk about WHY we have 3 different package manners, how to use them properly, when to use them, when not, the rationale behind it etc.  thoughts?
[16:59] <actuallypopular> <-- posingaspopular at school btw
[17:06] <eddieftw> whoops sorry i came in as actuallypopular just a moment ago if anyone is reading this as logs later
[19:30] <ubotu> New bug: #160587 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Provide the server guide in textfiles" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160587
[21:08] <somerville32> mdke: Can you remove "Xubuntu is not supported by Canonical" from UbuntuHashes on h.u.c/community please.
[21:09] <jjesse> som
[21:09] <jjesse> d'oh
[21:09] <jjesse> somerville32: just curious what support is there for xubuntu rom cannonical?
[21:10] <somerville32> It is equivalent to the other official flavours except they do not sell technical support for it.
[21:10] <jjesse> oh ok, so will xubuntu be an lts?
[21:10] <jjesse> for 8.04
[21:10] <somerville32> jjesse, The same as the others
[21:10] <somerville32> And besides, it is _completely_ irrelevant on a Ubuntu website.
[21:11] <somerville32> Ubuntu and Canonical are separate entities.
[21:11] <jjesse> i understand that
[21:11] <jjesse> i just ahd heard that 8.04 was not going to be an LTS for Xubuntu and there was no support so got a little confused
[21:12] <somerville32> jjesse, Where did you hear that?
[21:12] <somerville32> jjesse, Xubuntu shares the same repositories with the other flavours so it is impossible for Xubuntu not to be LTS if the other flavours are.
[21:13] <jjesse> somerville32: i asked someone at UDS and thats what they told me, can't remember who
[21:14] <somerville32> jjesse, The status of Xubuntu is not entirely clear to some people.
[21:14] <somerville32> Sort of like how the distinction between wiki.u.c and help.u.c is not well known
[21:14] <jjesse> somerville32: totally understand that
[21:15] <somerville32> :)