[01:00] <desertc> screencast  ;)  hi popey!
[01:01] <desertc> Technology is so entertaining.
[01:02] <desertc> Can I be of assistance with the UWN or other marketing material?
[01:54] <Burgundavia> desertc: absolutely
[01:54] <Burgundavia> do you know any php?
[01:55]  * somerville32 knows some.
[01:55] <Burgundavia> I really want to finish the spreadubuntu website and get it published
[01:55] <desertc> No -- not so much.  I muddle through a little for my website.
[01:56] <Burgundavia> right, well I noticed one of the things you want to do with your UbuntuStudents things are posters
[01:56] <desertc> I was thinking more of coming up with content or thinking of articles or such.
[01:56] <Burgundavia> we really truly need an easy place to put those kinds of things
[01:56] <Burgundavia> but as for content, absolutely
[01:56] <desertc> Yes!  The big thing this last week was posters.
[01:56] <Burgundavia> the wiki works but is very much suboptimal
[01:57] <desertc> Actually, we're looking for a web repository to store the posters, if you have any ideas.
[01:57] <somerville32> launchpad
[01:57] <Burgundavia> not really
[01:57]  * somerville32 has an idea.
[01:57] <somerville32> Launchpad
[01:57] <Burgundavia> that is exactly what the spreadubuntu website was going to provide
[01:57] <Burgundavia> somerville32: LP won't do
[01:57] <Burgundavia> bzr sucks for this
[01:57] <somerville32> I meant desertc 
[01:57] <desertc> I tried to use launchpad and the project/blueprint/specs ... but I found the whole thing confusing.  Even after I figured it out last week, I can't figure it out now.  Need something simpler.
[01:58] <somerville32> desertc, Create a product and you can host files plus host things in bazaar
[01:58] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu?action=show&redirect=SpreadUbuntu
[01:58] <Burgundavia> desertc: if you want to work with Screencasts, one of things we can do with the Fridge is have a weekly rundown of the screencasts released in the past week
[01:59] <desertc> somerville32: I am hoping just to have a place to put files, and then provide links through the wiki.  Maybe I can set up a personal webpage from my ISP, but I'd rather not have myself as a single-point-of-failure for the team.
[01:59] <Burgundavia> right
[02:00] <Burgundavia> you can attach files to teh wiki, but is very much non-obvious how to do it
[02:00] <Burgundavia> it doesn'
[02:00] <Burgundavia> give you automatic screenshots, per item comments, etc.
[02:01] <desertc> I suspect our posters will be 100K+ with multiple versions of each poster...  Not sure that fits into the model of the wiki.
[02:01] <desertc> Maybe using the Ubuntu Forums is an option.
[02:02] <Burgundavia> that doesn't really work either
[02:02] <desertc> But an FTP site would really be best
[02:02] <Burgundavia> again, you have the same issues
[02:02] <desertc> Or some webpage interface to an FTP site
[02:02] <Burgundavia> ideally, you want a revision control system built into the backend of a such a system, but that would be a great deal of work
[02:02] <Burgundavia> that coudl first, for a first cut
[02:02] <somerville32> bzr!! :]
[02:03] <Burgundavia> indeed, it would actually be cool, to be able to branch and push to such a web thingy, but that is very much over-engineered for a first pass
[02:04] <Burgundavia> desertc: here is what I would do
[02:04] <Burgundavia> get a basic interface to an ftp site up, via  web form
[02:04] <Burgundavia> then dump the stuff into a bzr repo
[02:04] <Burgundavia> push the repo up to LP for safekeeping (in case you go missing)
[02:04] <Burgundavia> and put a static page up
[02:05] <somerville32> And great a cron job to pull it regularly
[02:05] <somerville32> *create
[02:05] <desertc> Where do I find a ftp site?
[02:05] <Burgundavia> use your ISP
[02:05] <Burgundavia> setup a box with proftpd or wsftpd (whatever is in main)
[02:05] <Burgundavia> or even have them mail you via a webform
[02:06] <desertc> I'm not able to run a box overnight
[02:06] <Burgundavia> ahh, ok
[02:06] <Burgundavia> with a little bit of shuffling, I can
[02:06] <desertc> And my ISP ftp is uses my account name and password
[02:07] <Burgundavia> hey Madpilot
[02:07] <Madpilot> greetings
[02:07] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: have you ever built a form to mail something?
[02:07] <desertc> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ububtu.students.poster.project/
[02:07] <Madpilot> yes, but not lately. and I hate workign with forms
[02:07] <Madpilot> working, even
[02:07] <Burgundavia> yep
[02:08] <Burgundavia> basically, looking at setting up a basic site to host posters and other content for Ubuntu
[02:08] <Madpilot> isn't that part of the art.ubuntu.com remit?
[02:08] <desertc> You can see how we created a project, and we even got one branch populated with files.  But, for the life of me, I don't remember how to do it again, and none of the team members are comfortable enough with Launchpad to access the files.
[02:08] <Madpilot> when Matthew N. gets it up and running?
[02:08] <desertc> You can also see my typo creating the name.  Ugh!!
[02:08] <Burgundavia> quite possibly it is
[02:09] <Burgundavia> I have no idea
[02:09] <Madpilot> desertc, Ubuntu has to be one of the most commonly misspelled words out there, in geeky circles :)
[02:10] <Madpilot> we amused ourselves on #ubuntu-offtopic one evening counting the number of Ubuntu typos in #ubuntu
[02:10] <desertc> he he he!
[02:10] <desertc> Sounds fun.
[02:10] <Madpilot> for an -offtopic definition of fun, sure 
[02:11] <desertc> Glad you've looked at the Ubuntu Students project.  I wanted to talk with you all at some point next week about the possibility of making it a team under Ubuntu Marketing.
[02:12] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, posters and such sound like an art.ubuntu.com area to me - are you on the Ubuntu Art list anymore?
[02:12] <desertc> Because it is all about promotional activities in schools, I see it fitting under Edubuntu or Ubuntu Marketing very well!
[02:12] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: haven't been for ages
[02:13] <Burgundavia> they are similar things, yes
[02:13] <desertc> Just to emphasize the purpose of the team, it is using in-school promotion to encourage other students to get involved with Ubuntu LoCo groups.  The Ubuntu Students team is not to replace the LoCos, just to help students learn about them.
[02:13] <Burgundavia> yep
[02:14] <desertc> The tactics for the team are similar to the tactics for more general promotion for LoCos, so I like to clarify that point when I can.
[02:14] <Burgundavia> there are all kinds of things wherein such a team could push stuff to other teams, such as this one, the news one, etc.
[02:16] <desertc> It is my strong opinion that students are not being made aware of the opportunities within the Free Software and Ubuntu communities.  Teachers seem uninterested in encouraging promising computer students outside the classroom (many see them as hackers and threats), so my hope is students can reach out to their fellow students.
[02:16] <desertc> And high school students have so much to contribute to the community.  I was such a student who really bloomed once I discovered a local computer club.
[02:17] <desertc> But, I am sorry to talk endlessly about my project.  I wanted to see how I could help out the Ubuntu Marketing projects, actually.
[02:17] <somerville32> desertc, I agree with you.
[02:17] <Burgundavia> hey, no worries
[02:17] <somerville32> Thats why Microsoft hits the education system so hard
[02:17] <Burgundavia> getting people out into these places talking about Ubuntu is great
[02:17] <somerville32> They pretty much give it away for free.
[02:17] <Burgundavia> we have lots of buzz online, we need more buzz offline
[02:17] <somerville32> Microsoft want the youth to use Windows
[02:18] <somerville32> People generally don't like change
[02:18] <desertc> This week, I sent a dozen emails to each of the computer teachers in the high schools in the city, where I live.
[02:19] <somerville32> desertc, Most are just hobbyists and teach qbasic or VB :P
[02:19] <desertc> From the three page essay that I spent about two weeks revising, I received one response over the last week.  Just terrible.
[02:19] <desertc> And that one response was from a guy who was already a huge Linux advocate.  It's a shame.
[02:20] <somerville32> desertc, What country do you live in?
[02:20] <Burgundavia> shorter is better, desertc
[02:20] <desertc> somerville32: I didn't expect much from one school who listed their computer teacher as, "Coach Phil"
[02:20] <somerville32> lol
[02:21] <Madpilot> heh
[02:21] <Madpilot> the old "the gym teacher has lots of spare time, he can teach <random subject> too!" routine
[02:22] <Burgundavia> sad
[02:22] <somerville32> Life is sad
[02:23] <desertc> Burgundavia: It was about five paragraphs...  I thought a teacher wouldn't mind reading a bit.  The worst is that I really left it open for any response, asking for a response if they wer enot interested.
[02:23] <Madpilot> actually, a couple of my high school gym teachers were pretty good in other subjects - often English, come to think of it.
[02:23] <desertc> But anyway, I got one response, and I will be able to duck-tail my way into other schools off that one contact.
[02:23] <Burgundavia> desertc: long emails usually go unread, sadly
[02:24] <desertc> I also found one school that runs a LUG, so I will be able to present for them, too.
[02:24] <desertc> Burgundavia: I will follow up with a short one.  And a phone call.
[02:24] <desertc> And a call to the principal.  I won't give up so easily.
[02:25] <desertc> But that's entirely separate from the Ubuntu Students project, actually.
[02:25] <Madpilot> desertc, start with the short one in future
[02:25] <desertc> You were saying there might be resources under art.ubuntu.com ?
[02:28] <Burgundavia> well, when it gets launched, it might work
[02:28] <Burgundavia> until then, presumign we are talking weeks or a few months, use DIYMarketing wiki page
[02:28] <desertc> Are there any domains / subdomains that could be used to forward to some webspace I have?
[02:29] <desertc> I have 5 GB of space available through my ISP, for example
[02:29] <Burgundavia> not really
[02:29] <Burgundavia> we have tonnes of free hosting, via Canonical
[02:30] <desertc> Could the team use a directory somewhere?  Then the question is how to upload the files...
[02:30] <Burgundavia> well, like I said, let me get some info on this art.ubuntu.com
[02:30] <Madpilot> the wiki has a basic file-upload feature
[02:30] <desertc> But, I'd be great if there was even just a web page where people could browse the work and find something that fit their needs.
[02:30] <Madpilot> no idea if it's got size limits, though
[02:30] <Burgundavia> if it is coming quickly, then we can keep using wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
[02:30] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: no
[02:31] <desertc> The wiki is slow though...
[02:31] <desertc> Well, I guess I could archive everything and mail it to all the members, until such time it exceeds 5 MB
[02:32] <desertc> Right now it is 2.2 MB
[02:32] <Burgundavia> what exactly do you have that is 2.2 MB?
[02:32] <desertc> 12 posters
[02:32] <Burgundavia> in what format?
[02:32] <desertc> Many are revisions of others -- not 12 unique ones
[02:33] <desertc> jpg, png, svg
[02:33] <Burgundavia> ahh
[02:33] <Burgundavia> most of those are not changing daily, are they?
[02:34] <Burgundavia> why not upload the mostly static ones to teh wiki?
[02:34] <desertc> The team is not super active yet.  Most came from a meeting we had last weekend where we sat about brainstorming
[02:34] <Burgundavia> can you send them to me, to take a peek at them?
[02:35] <desertc> Plus, people are not finding the posters, so there is little incentive to make changes to the originals.
[02:35] <desertc> Sure, I'll archive them and DCC send them
[02:35] <Burgundavia> please don't
[02:35] <Burgundavia> just email
[02:35] <Burgundavia> corey.burger@ubuntu.com
[02:36] <desertc> You don't love DCC send?  I do!  :)
[02:36] <Burgundavia> no, actually
[02:36] <Burgundavia> mostly because my email archives things for me
[02:38] <desertc> Those came from a brainstorming session, so much of it is unfinished product or simply an idea that would need to be changed.
[02:39] <Burgundavia> right
[02:42] <desertc> My hope is that once this gets online and accessible (hopefully in a not-so-publicly-visible-way), that other team members will download a poster, make some changes and improvements, and then upload the results.  In time, the project might even publish some professional-grade material, but if nothing else, it will give students some items to print out and use -- say, in their locker, for example.
[02:43] <desertc> We talked about a lot of ways these could be used, and there are going to be different posters for different scenarios.
[02:44] <desertc> One that was discussed but not completed, mostly because there are already good examples out there, is a list of important features.  There's still a lot left to do, but we need a workspace before much of the activity will happen.
[02:45] <Burgundavia> have you gotten explicit liscening of all these posters?
[02:45] <Burgundavia> oh, and you need a COPYING file in that tarball
[02:45] <Burgundavia> I can already see one of Madpilot's posters, which I know is under a free license
[02:45] <desertc> Well ... *ahem* ... I have an idea of where many came from.
[02:46] <Burgundavia> that is a serious issue
[02:46] <Burgundavia> that needs to be sorted out
[02:47] <Madpilot> my roughcut posters are PD
[02:47] <desertc> Keeping better track of who contributed what from where is something that is on the agenda.
[02:47] <Burgundavia> basically, for simplicities sake, for anything anybody creates, make them either CC-pd, cc-by or cc-by-sa
[02:47] <Madpilot> desertc, hate to be a pedant, but it needs to be *early* on the agenda
[02:47] <Burgundavia> early like yesterday
[02:47] <desertc> I realize that, but when I brought up the topic to people making the posters, we got sidetracked on a long discussion about licenses.
[02:48] <desertc> It's not something high school students consider, and I did not want to take away from the momentum of the meeting.
[02:48] <Burgundavia> that is why you say "these are the three licenses you can use"
[02:48] <Burgundavia> choose one
[02:48] <desertc> There are a lot of logos and trademark issues, obviously, but it was a brainstorming session and these are not finished products.
[02:49] <Burgundavia> the doc team licensing was decided by Mako and I in about 10 minutes at Mataro
[02:49] <Burgundavia> desertc: they already exist, therefor they have copyright
[02:49] <Burgundavia> the only things that don't yet have copyright are those bits that haven't been created yet
[02:49] <desertc> Oh, you mean the ones from the ubuntu repository -- yes, nothing to worry about there.
[02:50] <Burgundavia> yes, actually
[02:50] <Burgundavia> because you don't explicitly say which licenses they are under
[02:50] <Burgundavia> which is a violation of the licensing of them
[02:50] <Burgundavia> I really hate to beat you over the head with thijs, but licensing is the one thing that can sink you, completely
[02:50] <Madpilot> just for the record, my posters have their licensing info right on them...
[02:51] <desertc> Email me an example of the COPYING file that you mean.  I did not see such a file when they were referenced on the Ubuntu Forums
[02:51] <Burgundavia> here is an example:
[02:51] <Burgundavia> roughcut.svg author: Brian Burger licsense: CC-pd (the url to the license)
[02:52] <Burgundavia> one line for each file in the repo
[02:52] <Burgundavia> listing all authors of each piece
[02:52] <desertc> Yes, I see.
[02:52] <Burgundavia> and then you explicitly say that sending a file to you needs to have a license or it will use the default one
[02:53] <Burgundavia> having clear copyright also means that eventually the good posters can be distributed with ubuntu itself
[02:54] <desertc> I will be sure to get that information up to a site where we can host the files.
[02:54] <Burgundavia> it also needs to be in any tarball you send to anybody
[02:54] <Burgundavia> because that is distribution
[02:55] <desertc> You're coming across loud and clear.
[02:55] <Burgundavia> that is good, thanks
[02:55] <Burgundavia> the other thing that makes everybodies life easier to make certain you keep stuff in editable formats
[02:55] <Burgundavia> svg, jpg, png
[02:56] <Burgundavia> and if they are working in the gimp, getting the gimp format with layers is good too
[02:56] <Burgundavia> although we want the end distribution to be done via PDF
[03:05] <desertc> I produce DVDs for my LUG each month, and I always use a license file for all the work.  Further, I always obtain permission when the license is not stated.  I am 100% on the topic.
[03:06] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[03:07] <desertc> But, you've got to have some flexibility when you're in the middle of a creative process.  You say no, that's wrong, and you lose the momentum!
[03:08] <Burgundavia> I disagree
[03:22] <desertc> Well, you make a valid point, regardless that we disagree about the distribution rights (fair use under education clause).  I did not even keep track of who had created what items, because I was leading the meeting.  Keeping track of the authors and licenses will be important if we want to use any of the material.
[03:24] <desertc> This brainstorming session was an impromptu thing, but next meeting will need to be more organized.  I was hoping to get some team sponsorship before then, however.  What did you think about the idea of making Ubuntu Students a sub-team of Marketing?
[03:33] <victorribeiro> olá, sou novato por aqui, alguem pode me passar uns bons canais de linux?
[03:45] <somerville32> o rly'?
[04:42] <desertc> Well - think about it.  I think it could be a good match!
[14:30] <_StefanS_> the background on fridge is misaligned
[14:30] <_StefanS_> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1227
[14:31] <_StefanS_> ah seems to be like that for all articles.. hmm
[14:44] <juliux> jenda, online?