[15:10] ok,s eriously [15:10] how on earth do you restore a 'Stopped' printer with the new gutsy printer UI? [15:10] I ended up going through the web ui, the gnome one was so devestatingly unintuitive [15:11] elmo: cant be done. too many options there already. [15:12] elmo: second tab, first option? [15:12] elmo: it's a checkbox though which doesn't look intuitive at all [15:12] oh, blah [15:12] seb128: right, thanks. that would have been it [15:12] there used to be a enable(1) command as well, IIRC [15:12] * seb128 dislikes this new UI too [15:13] * ogra wholehartedly agrees [15:15] Heya [15:15] I like the new UI about as much as I like ritual disembowelment [15:20] pitti: any gut felling about sg3-utils? [15:21] seb128: they are good :) [15:21] the new libgpod version use it to do a scsi inquiry on the new ipods [15:21] which would mean main promotion [15:22] * cjwatson_ would like to ask the same question about libsmbios, for the sake of Dell systems === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson [15:22] I'm wondering if that would be worth trying to do without the libsgutils1 [15:22] dellWirelessCtl seems to make network-manager a lot happier [15:22] (or rather hal) [15:23] seb128: in my experience they are pretty good.. i used them as Suggests: for multipath-tools for a while because I didn't want to go through the pain of MIR [15:23] seb128: and they had a smaller and more specific user target [15:23] but if it's required for iPod stuff, then it changes and MIR is worth it [15:23] fabbione: ok, thanks, I'll do a MIR then ;-) === asac_ is now known as asac [15:30] Keybuk, Hey, I'm packaging gizmod3.4 for universe, and upstream's provided a udev file he's like included http://gizmod.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/gizmod/dist/debian/gizmod.udev?view=markup (other packaging there is half mine, all old and irrelevant) I know nothing about udev and someone suggested I talk to you about this. [15:31] PriceChild: well, the udev file is bogus [15:31] event is already handled by our default rules [15:31] quite why he wants them owned by group "admin" I have no idea [15:33] Keybuk, mind if i invite him in...? [15:33] sure [15:34] DOKO! [15:34] DEBUG:root:python-distutils-extra: ubuntu is 1.91ubuntu3 [15:34] DEBUG:root:python-distutils-extra: debian is 1.91ubuntu3 [15:34] DEBUG:root:python-distutils-extra: base is 1.90 (1.91 wanted) [15:34] ... [15:34] can anyone see what happened here? :P [15:35] elmo: I thought the Debian archive prevented that? [15:35] prevented what? [15:35] Keybuk: I'll have a look, but python-distutils-extra wasn't my invention [15:35] PriceChild: hey I just got your email [15:36] doko: I'm not blaming you, Sebastian Heinlein uploaded it- just alerting you because it's python-* [15:36] Keybuk: I don't reject stuff with 'ubuntu' in the version, if that's what you mean, I looked at it, but it would have caused a lot of rejections of existing packages [15:36] elmo: ah, ok [15:37] seb128: hm, I never heard about this thing [15:37] (this really screws up MoM :p) [15:38] Cool flithm, keybuk's here if we can figure out how we can do what you want to do? [15:38] cool [15:39] Keybuk: so adding a udev rule into the deb isn't a good idea? [15:41] flithm: that udev rule isn't a good idea [15:41] udev rules in debs are ok [15:41] just that rule is wrong Wrong WRONG! :p [15:42] Keybuk: okay, so what's the best thing to do... my original idea was to create a separate group that allows read access to /dev/input/event* and then add the current user to that group. Ultimately I think that'd be better. [15:42] but do you have any ideas? [15:44] flithm: what does your program do? [15:45] I assume it doesn't work when X is running? [15:46] Keybuk: it does. It allows scripting of input events, and supports all sorts of input devices. Ie use a usb dial, or foot switch to change virtual desktops, or scroll firefox, that kind of thing. === cprov-lunch is now known as cprov [15:47] flithm: is it only intended to be run under X? [15:47] Keybuk: no it's meant to run under both X and console [15:47] but most people run it under X [15:48] bdmurray: able to test bug 17595? [15:48] Launchpad bug 17595 in hwdb-client "failure to parse xorg output leads to a hung gui." [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17595 [15:49] flithm: ACLs are probably the best solution [15:50] Keybuk: you mean posix file system ACLs? or some sort of crazy udev thing I'm not aware of. If you mean file system stuff that's really not a good. They'll need to be reset every time the user restarts udev [15:50] nobody restarts udev :p [15:50] Keybuk: when you restart your computer you do [15:50] seb128: so, I have used evolution for 20 minutes now, and wrote down a list of usability things which make it inefficient for me [15:50] current plan is to deprecate "access to particular devices" groups [15:50] especially things like plugdev [15:50] pitti: excellent ;-) [15:50] seb128: where do you think should I discuss this? create upstream bugs for each item? [15:51] and instead set ACLs on the devices for the individual users that can use them [15:51] e.g. "the set of users currently logged in on a console" [15:51] pitti: can you copy it somewhere for me so I can tell you what is already known, etc [15:52] Keybuk: nice that sounds ideal... how are the acls made to be permanent? some sort of script that runs after udev starts? [15:52] flithm: HAL/udev/DeviceKit will set them [15:53] Riddell: there are a couple of more people on the SRU team now [15:54] but I'll do that one [15:55] Keybuk: right now I am just hoping to find a way to let users install gizmod without having to manually create a udev rule. Whatever the best method is, I'm all for it... if it's udev or ACLs, no matter to me. Is it possible to get the deb file to set the current user to have read / write perm to dev/input/event*? [15:55] flithm: in the short term, a "gizmod" group would probably suffice [15:55] seb128: I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinPitt/EvolutionMailUsability [15:56] pitti: thanks [15:57] Keybuk: yeah I just looked and it appears as if ubuntu defaults to having ACLs turned off on the root partition anyway... so for now is creating a group, adding the current user, and applying a udev rule that uses the group gonna be okay? [15:57] bdmurray: ooh? who's new? [15:57] seb128: it can be summarized as 'keyboard shortcuts suck' and 'not enough space for email content (smaller fonts)' [15:57] pitti: what is the smaller fonts about? text inside the preview area? or widgets? [15:58] flithm: /dev is its own tmpfs [15:58] pitti: about "no easy way to switch between a large mail list, and a small list and viewing the email in a large window", enter and ctrl-W? [15:58] flithm: as long as it's a unique group, and not abusing the admin group, it's ok [15:58] seb128: the control elements are ok, and I guess if evo would have the two modes between "select email from a list" and 'view email in large window' the font size doesn't matter so much [15:58] Riddell: pedro and ogasawara [15:58] seb128: let me try [15:59] bdmurray: groovy [15:59] seb128: yeah, I think that will do [15:59] pitti: "does not remember changed column width; date uses 1/3 of the width, and is mostly empty, and space for subject is too small; changing this permanently is impossible"? are you sure [15:59] Keybuk: cool... yeah a unique group is best, I just didn't know how to put that into the deb build script [16:00] seb128: I tried it several times [16:00] flithm: addgroup --system in your postinst [16:00] PriceChild: do you know how to add a group and add a user to that group in the build scripts? [16:00] pitti: it doesn't share the settings between boxes so you have to do it once for every single box which is grrrr, but then it should be ok [16:00] seb128: I'll remove the view mode item from the list then, thanks for the hint [16:00] box = folder [16:00] Keybuk: cool thanks [16:01] seb128: ah, indeed; that's it [16:01] seb128: modifying that, too [16:01] pitti: note that pressing "space" do "scroll to the bottom of mail and jump to next unread mail (different folder if all the mails in the current one are read) then" [16:01] pitti: so theorically you just have to keep pressing space to read everything [16:02] seb128: right; I think this could be subsumed under the 'cannot reorder folders' point then [16:02] s/to the bottom/jump a page/ rather [16:02] seb128: I don't always read all the mails in a folder to get to the next one, though [16:02] thanks for the list, there is some valid points there [16:03] the "one key without modified" thing is unlikely to be changed, the other ones are mostly valid ones I think [16:03] seb128: updated the list [16:04] * seb128 hugs pitti [16:04] seb128: I think the default bindings are ok and Gnomeish [16:04] seb128: but I'd like to configure my own, with the option of not using modifier keys [16:04] right, that's basically down to "evolution still use bonobo instead of GTK" [16:05] once it'll use GTK modifying the menu keybindings will work like in any other GNOME application [16:05] seb128: let me add some proposals how these things could be addressed [16:10] flithm, not yet but I will in a little I'm sure ;) So we're still using some sort of udev? [16:10] seb128: page updated [16:11] PriceChild: yeah Keybuk suggested it's the best short term solution... but we can't abuse the admin group === \sh is now known as \sh_away [16:12] flithm, ok so get the udev file sorted and I'll get it going. (I don't think we can get the user automatically added to the gizmod group, but perhaps we could provide some sort of hint that it should be done somewhere) [16:12] PriceChild: okay sounds good, I'll post up a new udev file... let's go with the "gizmod" group? [16:13] pitti: do you have a way to trigger the 100% CPU usage? [16:14] seb128: unfortunately not [16:14] there is a bug, in gdm 2.20 when ipv6 enabled and you are on ipv4 [16:14] seb128: when I have, I'll create a proper bug report; don't worry about it for now [16:14] the get host addr call fails [16:14] pitti: ok, same for the trash not working? ;-) [16:14] should I create a bug report about it? [16:14] seb128: well, that still happens [16:14] nakeee: I think there is a bug in launchpad about that [16:14] flithm, cool. Little busy atm but should be able to work on it in a short while. Will check svn for new udev file [16:14] pitti: what do you try to do and what happens? [16:15] PriceChild: I'll send you a message, i gotta take care of a few things first too [16:15] pitti: do you try to press delete with mails in the trash selected? [16:15] seb128: I deleted a few mails with the Delete key, they land in "Trash" [16:15] seb128: right-click on Trash, "Empty trash", doesn't work [16:15] seb128: neither does the menu item in "File" [16:16] hum, k, weird [16:16] any error on the command line§? [16:16] seb128, I created a patch that seems to fix it [16:17] seb128, do you know where the bug is? I can't find it.. [16:17] it's funny I reported that bug in debian on gdm 2.18 [16:17] nakeee: no, just read some comment about that in the thousand of desktop mails I get every week [16:25] I don't see it, oh well on the worst case it will be another double bug [16:26] nakeee: let me have a look [16:26] way to much bugs there :( [16:27] nakeee: in fact I think that was the current comments on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gdm/+bug/75254 [16:27] Launchpad bug 75254 in gdm "XDMCP not working in ipv6, gdm should be compiled with --enable-ipv6=yes" [Low,Fix released] [16:27] Too many bugs period :-( [16:31] seb128: no, nothing on command line [16:32] seb128, yea that from 2.18 I reported it then and they fixed it [16:32] seb128, it reappeared in 2.20:) [16:33] nakeee: could you open a bug upstream rather if you have an account on bugzilla? [16:33] nakeee: otherwise we will just act as a gateway and forward your comments and upstream comments which creates extra work and doesn't bring lot of value [16:38] why does no one make a bugzilla that support openid.. [16:53] ArneGoetje: can I leave the ttf-arphic-uming merge to you? === luk_ is now known as luk [18:18] mjg59: could you try to send GNOME patches you work on upstream? that would avoid us rant like the gnome-power-manager one on planet gnome === `23meg is now known as mgunes [18:19] seb128: I've already replied to Richard. To the best of my knowledge, all the others have been Ubuntu-specific integration. [18:19] mjg59: right, there is very few patches not sent upstream he just picked on specific example [18:20] That one was an oversight - I wrote it against a development version and thought it had already been fixed upstream [18:20] ok [18:20] I mentioned it because we also have a bunch of gnome-control-center patches you wrote which have not been sent upstream (the synaptic one) [18:21] Yes, that's not mergable [18:21] arguably they are not upstream material but GNOME guys like to have those in bugzilla anyway so they know what distros are doing and can comment [18:21] I'd really rather that didn't go to bugzilla - it'll just encoruage other people to ship it [18:21] At which point it becomes much harder to fix it properly [18:21] alright [18:21] I'm working on this with X upstream [18:39] mjg59: maybe you could blog respond to the post since you are also on planet gnome? All the distros have quite some patches and some not sent upstream for whatever reason would be nice to point there ;-) I'll do post after diner maybe if you don't [18:39] anyway dinner time for now [18:40] seb128: I've commented on the post [18:41] not sure many people read the comment but right [18:41] thanks [19:11] env AUTOBUILD=1 NOEXTRAS=1 fakeroot debian/rules binary-generic 1935.23s user 303.32s system 95% cpu 39:03.72 total [19:11] oh, that's just taking the piss [19:11] my laptop took close to 4 hours to build the exact same kernel image [19:23] oboe@oboe-laptop:~$ aumix [19:23] The program 'aumix' can be found in the following packages: [19:23] * aumix [19:23] * aumix-gtk [19:23] Try: sudo apt-get install [19:23] bash: aumix: command not found [19:23] this is a impressive feature === j_ack_ is now known as j_ack [19:30] jcastro: don't suppose you can remember whether the newest items in an RSS feed are at the top or at the bottom? :p [19:30] top usually [19:35] wow [19:36] Google didn't respond ... my first reaction was to check my internet connection [19:50] Heh [19:52] Keybuk: get Intel to send you one of their software development platforms. Rumor is that they do one flavour in 17 minutes === nemo_work is now known as nemo_home === `23meg is now known as mgunes [21:20] jcastro: sup === cprov is now known as cprov-away [21:26] YokoZar: hi! [21:28] jcastro: so, let's talk team formation. The first step is pointing me to a good wiki template [21:28] Actually, I do need to get the BetterIntegratedWineSpec ready for review too [21:31] YokoZar: gimme 5 minutes, gotta shift gears to get you all set. [21:37] YokoZar: see pm [21:38] By the way, Valve tells us that at least 10 thousand Steam users are using Wine at this point. They just started a new survey, so there'll be more accurate data in a week or so. [21:39] * ajmitch wonders how many WoW players are using wine :) [21:41] ajmitch: I would guess at least 30k, given that WoW is about 3x as popular (3 million monthly users for Steam, I think there are about 9 million WoW players) [21:41] YokoZar: are you getting my pm's? [21:41] In IRC? no. [21:42] is there an #ubuntu-wine or something where we could do this? [21:42] Yes, join it [21:42] cool [22:16] has anyone used the gutsy installerfor a thinkpad t43? It seems to hang at the partition stage - gparted also just keeps scanning for devices continuously and I can't find /dev/hda or /dev/sda in order to try fdisk [22:19] ah, gparted has finished now with "no devices detected" === norsetto_ is now known as norsetto [22:23] if anyone can give me a tip for debugging I'd be grateful. Otherwise I'll file a bug [22:23] !support | mdke [22:23] mdke: the official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org [22:24] *giggle* [22:24] * mdke slaps elmo [22:25] ok, tail -> legs [22:25] well.. I was about to try and help you, but if you're going to be like that... [22:25] * mdke hugs elmo [22:26] mdke: well, I was kinda lieing, I'm probably not all that useful; but check dmesg for any mention of 'ata' 'sda' or 'ide', case insensitively? [22:26] elmo: yes,ata [22:27] pastebin? === asac_ is now known as asac === johanbr_ is now known as johanbr [22:30] ajmitch: You've put yourself as maintainer of libvirt rather than motu or core-dev.. Does that mean that I can just tell you to go update it, or will you now claim it was a mistake? :) [22:30] doko: Are you planning to merge nfs-utils soon ? [22:31] soren: that pre-dates the general (required) practice of using the teams as maintainers [22:31] it's already been updated by others anyway [22:32] ajmitch: Alright. Should I change the maintainer, then? [22:32] if you wish [22:33] since I haven't touched it for awhile [22:33] ajmitch: Will do. [22:39] archive admins: I've sub'd you to 160454. I'd like to get wider testing for the pcre update before rolling it out for real. Can you approve the dapper/edgy/feisty/gutsy-proposed uploads? [22:39] cjwatson: ^^ if you're still awake. [22:39] keescook: Er.. It's a security update, isn't it? [22:40] soren: yes, but I'm putting it into -proposed first to get more testing. [22:40] That bad, huh? [22:40] it's a major version upgrade, so ... yeah. [22:40] erk. [22:40] on the plus side, it's ABI compatible. [22:41] all my testing shows it as happy, but I just want To Be Sure. [22:41] it'd cause some issues if it weren't [22:41] understatement of the year. ;) [22:41] soren: I understand you're going to do a bit with libvirt & co then? [22:41] ajmitch: I might :) [22:43] ajmitch: Someone will. I'm doing it right now. [22:43] right, I saw the ad [22:43] ajmitch: Ah, I was just about to mention that. [22:44] 'virtualisation specialist' seems to cover a bit more than virtualisation there :) [22:45] :-) [22:45] keescook: awake but buried in other stuff and probably best not to get sidetracked or I'll never get to sleep ... [22:45] (sorry) [22:46] cjwatson: okay, no problem. [22:46] mdke: fwiw it's not gparted any more, hasn't been since feisty [22:46] though I see there's a subsequent server developer position that seems to cover much of the same [22:47] keescook: I'm not here, but I'll poke at it for you anyway. [22:47] Mithrandir: heh, thanks. [22:48] keescook: we don't really have a policy for how to do those kinds of things. Want to make up a policy here and now? [22:49] Mithrandir: sure... closest to this has been the firefox updates (new origs) and the mozilla 1.5 dapper update (new major version) [22:50] "If a security update includes major version updates, it should, if possible, go to -proposed first for testing. Any upload by a security team member to -proposed for a security vulnerability it will get accepted immediately without ack from -sru in a similar fashion to regular security fixes being installed into -updates without further ado"? [22:50] Mithrandir: sure, that reads well. Should I add that to the SRU or the SUP wiki? [22:51] Mithrandir: s/vulnerability it will/vulnerability will/ [22:51] soren: sure. I was just typoing it out over a lossy and slow SSH link. [22:51] http://patches.ubuntu.com/patches.xml [22:51] ^ \o/ that actually seems to be working [22:51] Keybuk: Ooh! Shiny! [22:51] keescook: sure. And mail -devel, I suppose [22:52] except the links are wrong, oops [22:52] Keybuk: Well... except that the links don't work? [22:52] Keybuk: :) [22:52] and they're in the wrong order [22:54] Keybuk: Would it be much extra work to add an rss feed of atomic/ubuntu ? [22:54] soren: the plan is to have an rss feed of most things [22:55] though I need to know what things to put *in* the rss feed ;-) [22:55] ie. what to link to [22:55] Keybuk: Well, in the case of the atomic patches that's straightforward, right? [22:55] Or am I missing some detail here? [22:56] well [22:56] by-release/atomic is I guess [22:56] the rss feed should probably be per-package though, not global, right? [22:56] Hm... Per package would probably also be useful, but I actually meant global. [22:57] It would be like the hardy-changes rss feed Seveas maintains, only better. [22:57] so I can finally get rid of it? :) [22:57] we already have pretty much that in ubuntu-patches@lists.ubuntu.com [22:57] :p [22:58] Keybuk: That doesn't send out the atomic diffs, does it? It sends what's in by-release/ubuntu ? [22:58] email2rss2email [22:58] soren: sends out atomic diffs except at -1 time [23:00] Keybuk: Oh. I just picked a random e-mail from that list and it said it contained the diffs from the base Debian version, but now that I look more closely that is indeed only in case of an ubuntu1 revision. That's *exactly* what I was looking for. [23:00] what's a good name for such things [23:00] "subscriptions" sounds wrong [23:01] syndicate! :p [23:01] Er.. In which contexT? [23:02] just a name for the python program [23:02] Ah. [23:02] pysub :) [23:02] wibble.py? [23:03] patchfeed.py? [23:04] keescook: accepted.all accepted. [23:04] * keescook hugs Mithrandir [23:04] keescook: happy to help, hopefully it all works out fine. [23:05] * keescook holds on to his hat [23:05] and with that, I'm off to bed. [23:12] _MMA_: ping === johanbr_ is now known as johanbr [23:14] <_MMA_> LaserJock: Yo [23:14] _MMA_: got it :-) [23:15] <_MMA_> w00t!! Hooray for UPS! :D [23:19] http://patches.ubuntu.com/patches.xml [23:19] ^ there, that should work better [23:19] (note: sample data :p) [23:19] there's also http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/atomic/patches.xml now [23:20] for comparison [23:20] Rock! [23:29] oops [23:29] * Keybuk stops spamming the Debian PTS [23:29] la la la [23:34] http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/atomic/ubuntu/d/dpkg/patches.xml [23:34] ^ per-package rss feeds [23:40] * Keybuk taps the data centre [23:40] err, hawlo? [23:42] elmo: DISPATCH WAR ROCKET AJAX [23:42] Keybuk: err? [23:42] it's back :) [23:43] * Spads throws a rock on Keybuk [23:43] yahuh [23:48] Keybuk: You're still just testing this with a few packages, correct? [23:49] yup [23:49] Keybuk: Ok. [23:54] http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/ubuntu/a/apt/patches.xml [23:54] ^ by-package ubuntu->debian packages.xml