| luisbg | hello all | 13:47 |
|---|---|---|
| luisbg | canon eos 400d vs nikon d40x? | 13:47 |
| luisbg | hey _MMA_ | 14:11 |
| kwwii | hi _MMA_ , luisbg | 14:35 |
| kwwii | luisbg: personally I would buy the nikom | 14:35 |
| kwwii | erm, nikon | 14:40 |
| * _MMA_ is drowning in Ubuntu Studio artwork. (plans on killing anyone who bitches about it when its released) | 14:42 | |
| kwwii | _MMA_: ever wish you could silence someone through email? | 14:58 |
| * kwwii thinks that ubuntu-studio should be green | 14:59 | |
| kwwii | pink and green | 14:59 |
| _MMA_ | Green? Ill just copy the Foresight theme and stick it in Ubuntu Studio. "pink and green" is for Hardy+1. ;) | 15:01 |
| kwwii | _MMA_: good to see that you have a long term plan :p | 15:26 |
| _MMA_ | kwwii: Actually Ill probably just copy Ubuntu at that point and change small things. Colors, branding. | 15:28 |
| kwwii | _MMA_: you might want to wait until we know the exact design direction before you say that - there have been mumblings that we should stick with brown | 15:31 |
| _MMA_ | kwwii: Im talking for H+1. | 15:31 |
| kwwii | _MMA_: yeah, so am I - looks like I will be flying to london soon to get final decisions on the art direction for the next whole lts cycle | 15:39 |
| _MMA_ | Too bad the Black and orange thing looks nixed. Some cool shots came out of that. | 15:40 |
| kwwii | I am still pushing for it...we might have to phase out the brown slowly though | 15:40 |
| kwwii | the community really discussed it a lot and came up with some good ideas - I would hate to lose out on that | 15:41 |
| _MMA_ | Yeah. Just walk Mark through the ML posts. | 15:42 |
| kwwii | I think he gave up on reading the list - paying me to do it instead | 15:48 |
| kwwii | I am just going to present him with stuff that I want and keep the brown to a minimum, see where that gets me | 15:49 |
| _MMA_ | Sounds like a plan. So are you working on ideas or doing administrative work today? | 15:52 |
| kwwii | a little bit of both, had a couple of meetings, and am working on a wallpaper idea | 15:54 |
| kwwii | had to do an employee review thingy - what fun | 15:55 |
| kwwii | rating yourself | 15:55 |
| _MMA_ | :) | 15:55 |
| _MMA_ | "I'm awesome!!" (gimmie a raise) | 15:56 |
| kwwii | lol, no doubt | 15:56 |
| _MMA_ | kwwii: On my iconset, I'm doin' a black stroke to the icons instead of the dark-gray. I think it's looking better. It's giving more contrast with the UI. They blended it too much before. | 16:01 |
| kwwii | _MMA_: do you mean the stroke on the outside? | 16:11 |
| kwwii | if it is not black, I would suggest making it black but quite transparent | 16:12 |
| kwwii | although black might just look nicer | 16:12 |
| _MMA_ | kwwii: Ill send you a .tar in a little bit so you can take a look. | 16:12 |
| kwwii | _MMA_: sounds good | 16:26 |
| _MMA_ | kwwii: On Inkscape SVN is there a way to make certain toolboxes always come up by default? ie: I would like to have "Fill and Stroke" and "Align and Distribute" com up all the time. | 16:36 |
| _MMA_ | s/com/come | 16:36 |
| _MMA_ | kwwii: Look at Richard Johnson's last post to Planet. | 16:49 |
| kwwii | lol | 17:05 |
| kwwii | I sent the guy who does those sites a heads up | 17:08 |
| _MMA_ | :) | 17:09 |
| _MMA_ | <spam> | 17:19 |
| _MMA_ | Not that people in here dont know but: The Ubuntu Studio project is still looking for community contributions. If interested look over: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming | 17:19 |
| _MMA_ | </spam> | 17:19 |
| kwwii | _MMA_: on that level, I am writing an email to the list encouraging people to keep working on Ubuntu ideas for Hardy and pointing out that there are a lot of other derivatives to work on, mind if I point them to that page as well? | 17:58 |
| _MMA_ | Sure. | 18:00 |
| _MMA_ | kwwii: Any ideas re: my Inkscape question? | 18:35 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Canon 5D | 18:35 |
| luisbg | hey troy_s | 18:35 |
| luisbg | long time no see | 18:36 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Yeah no kidding. | 18:36 |
| luisbg | troy_s, I wish I had the money for a canon 5d | 18:36 |
| troy_s | luisbg: What are you wanting to spend? | 18:36 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Everything else should be considered equivalent. | 18:36 |
| luisbg | around 1000 dollars | 18:36 |
| luisbg | in euros off course ;) | 18:36 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Largely because the CCD / CMOS size is the same (dinky 1.6 multiplier) | 18:36 |
| troy_s | luisbg: So don't break your budget. | 18:36 |
| troy_s | luisbg: If you want to spend 1000 dollars, your best bet in my opinion is to get an affordable body (All of the digital SLR contenders make ok ones Pentax / Nikon / Canon) | 18:37 |
| kwwii | _MMA_: going to pick up my kid from basketball, bbiab | 18:37 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Snap up one that will afford you the ability to buy two lenses. | 18:37 |
| kwwii | troy_s: I would suggest sticking to nikon or canon though | 18:38 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Or one (which will crimping your style) | 18:38 |
| kwwii | as they sell more quality lenses in any case | 18:38 |
| troy_s | kwwii: Matter of preference -- the good lens makers make for all... | 18:38 |
| kwwii | _MMA_: didn't see your inkscape question | 18:38 |
| luisbg | troy_s, what are you telling me... to ditch photography? | 18:38 |
| troy_s | kwwii: And affordable lenses are made by Tam for example. | 18:38 |
| troy_s | luisbg: God no. | 18:38 |
| troy_s | lol | 18:38 |
| luisbg | troy_s, LOL | 18:38 |
| luisbg | troy_s, "affordable body" <- canon eos 400d | 18:39 |
| troy_s | luisbg: The best thing from someone who wants to take photos is a tool that will let them do so and achieve the best variety of looks. | 18:39 |
| luisbg | but yeah... a second lense is out of my budget if I buy that one | 18:39 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Yes... I would think the Canon line is quite cheap. | 18:39 |
| luisbg | cheap for the quality it has | 18:39 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Let's put it this way, there is at least one photographer out there who has made more than 10 million dollars with broken lenses. | 18:39 |
| troy_s | luisbg: And don't worry too much about features | 18:40 |
| troy_s | luisbg: The bodies in the Canon line are all very similar for example, with multimetering and shit to bulk up the price | 18:40 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Bugger metering -- learn how to use a meter or the spot meter in the camera. | 18:40 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Stills photography comes down to fundamentally the same three elements as art -- Content / Composition / Lighting | 18:41 |
| luisbg | troy_s, I agree (about the three concepts) | 18:41 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Do you have a style / look that you 'like'? | 18:41 |
| luisbg | troy_s, vivid color portraits and macros | 18:41 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Have you shot much 35mm still photography before? Do you have a light meter? | 18:41 |
| luisbg | troy_s, in black and white with no light meter | 18:42 |
| troy_s | luisbg: So let's assume the vivid colour portraiture (along Floria Sigmondisi's styling) is art direction) is more or less outside of the camera body discussion (nerf the semantics of ccd / cmos) | 18:42 |
| troy_s | luisbg: If you want to do macro photography, then you will need a cheap macro lens or at least have the 'macro' mode included on your default. | 18:43 |
| luisbg | troy_s, I can wait for macro | 18:43 |
| troy_s | luisbg: And even then, what type of macro photography are you thinking of? | 18:43 |
| luisbg | I need some field experience before that ;) | 18:43 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Get the lens with a macro -- there are more than a good number of standard SLR lenses (say in the 30-70 range with a macro flip on the 70 mm end) | 18:43 |
| luisbg | troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photos/leightphotography/1987698385/ | 18:43 |
| luisbg | troy_s, favorite portrait ever | 18:44 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Pretty simple stuff to shoot... and that looks like the levels may have been slid slightly in post. | 18:44 |
| troy_s | luisbg: The general rule for photography is exactly what most mooky amateurs do | 18:44 |
| luisbg | and that is? | 18:45 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Put your subject when in direct sunlight such that the sunlight is directly behind the subject | 18:45 |
| troy_s | luisbg: So that it is you, subject, sun | 18:45 |
| luisbg | that makes a high contrast shadow | 18:45 |
| troy_s | luisbg: Not at all | 18:45 |
| troy_s | luisbg: it is called backlight | 18:45 |
| troy_s | and is exactly what you see in that photo | 18:45 |
| troy_s | the 'fill' comes from two places -- either expose for the ambient light (sometimes blowing out background but if you notice the trees are in shade) | 18:46 |
| troy_s | or by laying something white in front / to the side of your subject | 18:46 |
| troy_s | and the sun will hit it and fill the face | 18:46 |
| luisbg | true | 18:46 |
| troy_s | the _only_ way to shoot direct sunlight on skin | 18:46 |
| troy_s | is using diffusion | 18:46 |
| troy_s | the rest looks like shit | 18:46 |
| luisbg | yeap | 18:47 |
| luisbg | got confused | 18:47 |
| luisbg | troy_s, so this are my two options | 18:47 |
| troy_s | it creates a hideous rakey light with no 'core' | 18:47 |
| luisbg | canon eos 400d with EF-S 18-55mm lense | 18:47 |
| troy_s | let me see a link to the lens | 18:47 |
| luisbg | or nikon d40x with 18-55 mm and 55-200 mm | 18:48 |
| troy_s | i am 100% certain that you can get a decently fast lens with a macro for under 1000 with body | 18:48 |
| troy_s | luisbg: the high end is easy to get to with a doubler if you don't mind losing some autofocus and such | 18:48 |
| luisbg | doubler? | 18:48 |
| troy_s | luisbg: a doubler is deadly cheap and useful to someone who wants to experiment with looks | 18:48 |
| troy_s | luisbg: it is a | 18:48 |
| troy_s | luisbg: small 'barrel' that is basically a 'bellows' between the lens and the body | 18:49 |
| luisbg | ahhh ok | 18:49 |
| troy_s | luisbg: it doubles the effective lens length | 18:49 |
| luisbg | so it doesn't have to be the same mount type | 18:49 |
| luisbg | ahhh no... I see | 18:49 |
| troy_s | luisbg: yes... it does. | 18:49 |
| troy_s | luisbg: you will be able to get canon doublers for cheap | 18:49 |
| troy_s | luisbg: let me see if i can find a cheap macro combination pack | 18:49 |
| _MMA_ | (conversation interrupting comment) | 18:49 |
| luisbg | cool! any links meanwhile I look for links to the lenses? | 18:49 |
| troy_s | luisbg: yeah link for body again? | 18:50 |
| luisbg | _MMA_, (that's all?) | 18:50 |
| luisbg | troy_s, body A http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/ | 18:50 |
| luisbg | body B http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40x/ | 18:51 |
| troy_s | luisbg: another thing to remember is that like light, the ccd size is not linear. for example, going for 'twice' the resolution of a 6mp camera is not 12, its 36 | 18:51 |
| troy_s | erk | 18:51 |
| luisbg | yes | 18:52 |
| troy_s | rather the square of the original dimensions... so like 2k by 3k would be 4 by 9 i guess | 18:52 |
| troy_s | 4x6 24 | 18:52 |
| troy_s | lol | 18:52 |
| troy_s | bad math today | 18:52 |
| troy_s | lol | 18:52 |
| * _MMA_ wants Troy to install Warsow so he can shoot Troy in the face. | 18:52 | |
| troy_s | luisbg: i bring that up because there is no sense in going completely bonkers on price to get the extra 4 mp and some crappy 1200 point metering | 18:52 |
| luisbg | troy_s, lense A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF-S_18-55mm_lens | 18:53 |
| troy_s | luisbg: the best photography will be achieved using your eye and figuring out how you want to expose the image -- the 'frills' are a little bit of a waste in the bang for buck category. | 18:53 |
| troy_s | luisbg: is that the bundled lens? | 18:53 |
| luisbg | troy_s, yes | 18:54 |
| luisbg | camera A goes with lens A canon eos 400d with ef-s 18mm | 18:54 |
| luisbg | 18-55mm* | 18:54 |
| luisbg | lense B1 http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1855.htm and... | 18:54 |
| troy_s | luisbg: also bear in mind that if you avoid buying the shitty digital lenses | 18:54 |
| troy_s | luisbg: your money will go further | 18:54 |
| troy_s | luisbg: as when you potentially upgrade to a full 1:1 body, you won't get vignetting. | 18:55 |
| luisbg | 1:1 body? | 18:55 |
| troy_s | luisbg: a 1:1 body is a body with a ccd/cmos censor the same size as 35mm film. | 18:55 |
| luisbg | ahh ok | 18:55 |
| troy_s | luisbg: it effectively opens up wide angle photography via lenses without using silly adapters like the 'fixed lens' cameras flog. | 18:56 |
| troy_s | luisbg: more importantly, the depth of field is the same as a 35mm camera | 18:56 |
| troy_s | luisbg: which is of huge importance to look | 18:56 |
| luisbg | lens B2 http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/55200.htm | 18:57 |
| luisbg | so... wrap up | 18:57 |
| troy_s | yikes that's a slow lens | 18:57 |
| luisbg | option A: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF-S_18-55mm_lens | 18:57 |
| luisbg | or | 18:57 |
| troy_s | How much is the Canon body? | 18:58 |
| luisbg | option B: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40x/ http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1855.htm http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/55200.htm | 18:58 |
| luisbg | troy_s, where I'm buying I can't get the body alone (I need financing) | 18:58 |
| troy_s | luisbg: that 2nd lens would be effectively useless at 5.6 | 18:58 |
| luisbg | lol | 18:59 |
| luisbg | so it's not worth it | 18:59 |
| troy_s | luisbg: not the 2nd. | 18:59 |
| luisbg | the first? | 18:59 |
| troy_s | luisbg: aim for the main market in that line -- the 18-sub hundred mm (in digital is that?) | 18:59 |
| troy_s | luisbg: basically a 35mm equiv of say 30-70 that is fast -- 2.8. it should be affordable. | 19:00 |
| luisbg | I don't understand you | 19:00 |
| troy_s | (and by fast i don't mean super fast, but fast enough to shoot with available tungsten light and considerations) | 19:00 |
| troy_s | luisbg: let me look at a local photo site... hold on. | 19:00 |
| luisbg | ok | 19:00 |
| troy_s | luisbg: christ i can't find one quickly. they are very common in 35mm and if the mount is the same it would work fine. | 19:02 |
| troy_s | luisbg: what makes you want that 40D? | 19:03 |
| luisbg | 400d? | 19:03 |
| troy_s | luisbg: yes sorry | 19:04 |
| luisbg | I'm looking for an affordable dslr with good image quality | 19:04 |
| troy_s | luisbg: what is the price difference say, between the digi rebel 300d and 400d there? | 19:04 |
| luisbg | what else would I want? | 19:04 |
| luisbg | digi rebel 300d is out of the market | 19:04 |
| troy_s | luisbg: you are aware that _any_ of those digital slrs (and I mean any -- pentax / canon / nikon's are in the same magnifcation class at the same price point) will seriously outshoot any of the 'all in one' pocketcameras. | 19:05 |
| luisbg | I would go with 350d if I could find it here (I'm sure the difference of price would mean getting an other lens for the same bucks) | 19:05 |
| luisbg | yeah... that's why I don't want a pocketcamera | 19:05 |
| luisbg | and since I want a slr... I want the best for my little budget | 19:05 |
| troy_s | luisbg: or getting a more versatile lens. the main lens components for versatility are lens length versatility with speed of lens (how fast the lens is) | 19:06 |
| troy_s | luisbg: and with your budget, you don't want to over shell out for the body and crimp your ability to shoot | 19:06 |
| luisbg | troy_s, I understand what you are saying | 19:07 |
| troy_s | luisbg: 2.8 is a minimum speed at the wider angle (a still camera lens shifts f value as you go longer as compared to a motion picture camera that holds the f value constant as you zoom) | 19:07 |
| troy_s | luisbg: by minimum speed i mean 'minimum speed that you would find useful' | 19:07 |
| luisbg | troy_s, is the ef-s 18-55 lense a versatile lens? | 19:07 |
| troy_s | luisbg: that extra stop of light is a huge bump when shooting say -- interior. | 19:07 |
| troy_s | luisbg: let me scour the link again | 19:07 |
| troy_s | luisbg: that size looks about right for the class. | 19:07 |
| luisbg | troy_s, do you want to move this chat to a PM | 19:08 |
| luisbg | it's getting big ;) | 19:08 |
| troy_s | luisbg: sure. | 19:08 |
| kwwii | luisbg: if you want a versatile lense by something like an 18-200 or so, it might be a bit more expensive but it will cover much more range | 19:20 |
| kwwii | but in the cheaper stuff you will be barrel distortion, purple fringing, sharpness problems and they will not be too dark (the fstop stuff troy_s was talking about) | 19:22 |
| luisbg | kwwii, I can have a 18-135mm with the nikon inside my budget | 19:22 |
| kwwii | that 18-135 is a pretty good lense, all in all | 19:22 |
| kwwii | for an inexpensive lense | 19:22 |
| kwwii | they also make zooms which do not change in fstop, they are just really expensive | 19:22 |
| kwwii | I am thinking about buying a 200-200 Nikor for christmas with a constant 2.8 but it costs like 6500 euros | 19:24 |
| luisbg | ouch | 19:24 |
| luisbg | that's a lot of money | 19:24 |
| luisbg | nikon d40x body with this http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06080902nikonafsdx18-135lens.asp <-- 900 euros | 19:25 |
| kwwii | yepp, but it will be the last telephoto lense I ever buy ;-) | 19:25 |
| kwwii | luisbg: I have that lense as well...not a bad "every day" lense | 19:26 |
| luisbg | kwwii, yeah... good thing is that these are investments for life | 19:26 |
| luisbg | not like laptops ;) | 19:26 |
| kwwii | are you buying it in a kit together or seperatly? | 19:26 |
| luisbg | kit together | 19:26 |
| kwwii | cool, you get the lense for almost nothing that way | 19:27 |
| troy_s | luisbg: and no, you will be upgrading to the 1:1s when they become prolific. just make sure your glass is 35mm as opposed to that shitty 'D' marker. | 19:28 |
| troy_s | luisbg: there are hundreds of camera shops with 2nd hand 35mm lenses... go use them. | 19:28 |
| troy_s | luisbg: on that note, a prime lens will always perform better than a zoom, and you can get them for quite cheap in a 2nd hand shoppe. | 19:30 |
| kwwii | just be carefull when buying used lenses, and make sure that it has autofocus | 19:32 |
| kwwii | and honestly, with the kit prices you almost get the lense for free | 19:32 |
| kwwii | but I do agree with the comment that should not buy the DX lenses | 19:33 |
| luisbg | kwwii, the bad thing about nikon d40x is that focus motor is in the lens... so no autofocus if not nikkor lens | 19:33 |
| kwwii | as a normal lense really is an investment for a lifetime, whereas the DX lenses is an investment for as long as you have a camera with a smaller sensor | 19:33 |
| troy_s | luisbg: not a big deal | 19:33 |
| troy_s | luisbg: if you are taking portrait shots (as seems to be what you want) manual focus is completely fine. | 19:33 |
| luisbg | so this lens are DX or 35mm? | 19:33 |
| kwwii | pretty much any nikon lense made in the last 10 years will be autofuocus (and any of the other lense manufacturers) | 19:34 |
| luisbg | troy_s, I'm not sure yet if that's going to be my "style"... I have to find it shooting stuff (with a camera not a gun) | 19:34 |
| kwwii | DX means that it is made for the smaller sensor | 19:34 |
| troy_s | luisbg: the D shit is digital. it means that the glass isn't as big inside and that will mean vignetting as you increase your receptor size. (read useless when you upgrade to a real 1:1 body) | 19:34 |
| kwwii | but manual focus on a digital camera is not what you want | 19:34 |
| kwwii | as you do not have any way of knowing when it is really sharp | 19:35 |
| troy_s | ??? | 19:35 |
| kwwii | chemical film cameras had the nifty grids with blocks and such to know when it was really sharp, digital cameras do not have that | 19:36 |
| kwwii | you will find that many of the pics you thought were sharp are not sharp | 19:37 |
| * troy_s outs. | 19:38 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!