[13:47] hello all [13:47] canon eos 400d vs nikon d40x? [14:11] hey _MMA_ [14:35] hi _MMA_ , luisbg [14:35] luisbg: personally I would buy the nikom [14:40] erm, nikon [14:42] * _MMA_ is drowning in Ubuntu Studio artwork. (plans on killing anyone who bitches about it when its released) [14:58] _MMA_: ever wish you could silence someone through email? [14:59] * kwwii thinks that ubuntu-studio should be green [14:59] pink and green [15:01] <_MMA_> Green? Ill just copy the Foresight theme and stick it in Ubuntu Studio. "pink and green" is for Hardy+1. ;) [15:26] _MMA_: good to see that you have a long term plan :p [15:28] <_MMA_> kwwii: Actually Ill probably just copy Ubuntu at that point and change small things. Colors, branding. [15:31] _MMA_: you might want to wait until we know the exact design direction before you say that - there have been mumblings that we should stick with brown [15:31] <_MMA_> kwwii: Im talking for H+1. [15:39] _MMA_: yeah, so am I - looks like I will be flying to london soon to get final decisions on the art direction for the next whole lts cycle [15:40] <_MMA_> Too bad the Black and orange thing looks nixed. Some cool shots came out of that. [15:40] I am still pushing for it...we might have to phase out the brown slowly though [15:41] the community really discussed it a lot and came up with some good ideas - I would hate to lose out on that [15:42] <_MMA_> Yeah. Just walk Mark through the ML posts. [15:48] I think he gave up on reading the list - paying me to do it instead [15:49] I am just going to present him with stuff that I want and keep the brown to a minimum, see where that gets me [15:52] <_MMA_> Sounds like a plan. So are you working on ideas or doing administrative work today? [15:54] a little bit of both, had a couple of meetings, and am working on a wallpaper idea [15:55] had to do an employee review thingy - what fun [15:55] rating yourself [15:55] <_MMA_> :) [15:56] <_MMA_> "I'm awesome!!" (gimmie a raise) [15:56] lol, no doubt [16:01] <_MMA_> kwwii: On my iconset, I'm doin' a black stroke to the icons instead of the dark-gray. I think it's looking better. It's giving more contrast with the UI. They blended it too much before. [16:11] _MMA_: do you mean the stroke on the outside? [16:12] if it is not black, I would suggest making it black but quite transparent [16:12] although black might just look nicer [16:12] <_MMA_> kwwii: Ill send you a .tar in a little bit so you can take a look. [16:26] _MMA_: sounds good [16:36] <_MMA_> kwwii: On Inkscape SVN is there a way to make certain toolboxes always come up by default? ie: I would like to have "Fill and Stroke" and "Align and Distribute" com up all the time. [16:36] <_MMA_> s/com/come [16:49] <_MMA_> kwwii: Look at Richard Johnson's last post to Planet. [17:05] lol [17:08] I sent the guy who does those sites a heads up [17:09] <_MMA_> :) [17:19] <_MMA_> [17:19] <_MMA_> Not that people in here dont know but: The Ubuntu Studio project is still looking for community contributions. If interested look over: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming [17:19] <_MMA_> [17:58] _MMA_: on that level, I am writing an email to the list encouraging people to keep working on Ubuntu ideas for Hardy and pointing out that there are a lot of other derivatives to work on, mind if I point them to that page as well? [18:00] <_MMA_> Sure. [18:35] <_MMA_> kwwii: Any ideas re: my Inkscape question? [18:35] luisbg: Canon 5D [18:35] hey troy_s [18:36] long time no see [18:36] luisbg: Yeah no kidding. [18:36] troy_s, I wish I had the money for a canon 5d [18:36] luisbg: What are you wanting to spend? [18:36] luisbg: Everything else should be considered equivalent. [18:36] around 1000 dollars [18:36] in euros off course ;) [18:36] luisbg: Largely because the CCD / CMOS size is the same (dinky 1.6 multiplier) [18:36] luisbg: So don't break your budget. [18:37] luisbg: If you want to spend 1000 dollars, your best bet in my opinion is to get an affordable body (All of the digital SLR contenders make ok ones Pentax / Nikon / Canon) [18:37] _MMA_: going to pick up my kid from basketball, bbiab [18:37] luisbg: Snap up one that will afford you the ability to buy two lenses. [18:38] troy_s: I would suggest sticking to nikon or canon though [18:38] luisbg: Or one (which will crimping your style) [18:38] as they sell more quality lenses in any case [18:38] kwwii: Matter of preference -- the good lens makers make for all... [18:38] _MMA_: didn't see your inkscape question [18:38] troy_s, what are you telling me... to ditch photography? [18:38] kwwii: And affordable lenses are made by Tam for example. [18:38] luisbg: God no. [18:38] lol [18:38] troy_s, LOL [18:39] troy_s, "affordable body" <- canon eos 400d [18:39] luisbg: The best thing from someone who wants to take photos is a tool that will let them do so and achieve the best variety of looks. [18:39] but yeah... a second lense is out of my budget if I buy that one [18:39] luisbg: Yes... I would think the Canon line is quite cheap. [18:39] cheap for the quality it has [18:39] luisbg: Let's put it this way, there is at least one photographer out there who has made more than 10 million dollars with broken lenses. [18:40] luisbg: And don't worry too much about features [18:40] luisbg: The bodies in the Canon line are all very similar for example, with multimetering and shit to bulk up the price [18:40] luisbg: Bugger metering -- learn how to use a meter or the spot meter in the camera. [18:41] luisbg: Stills photography comes down to fundamentally the same three elements as art -- Content / Composition / Lighting [18:41] troy_s, I agree (about the three concepts) [18:41] luisbg: Do you have a style / look that you 'like'? [18:41] troy_s, vivid color portraits and macros [18:41] luisbg: Have you shot much 35mm still photography before? Do you have a light meter? [18:42] troy_s, in black and white with no light meter [18:42] luisbg: So let's assume the vivid colour portraiture (along Floria Sigmondisi's styling) is art direction) is more or less outside of the camera body discussion (nerf the semantics of ccd / cmos) [18:43] luisbg: If you want to do macro photography, then you will need a cheap macro lens or at least have the 'macro' mode included on your default. [18:43] troy_s, I can wait for macro [18:43] luisbg: And even then, what type of macro photography are you thinking of? [18:43] I need some field experience before that ;) [18:43] luisbg: Get the lens with a macro -- there are more than a good number of standard SLR lenses (say in the 30-70 range with a macro flip on the 70 mm end) [18:43] troy_s, http://www.flickr.com/photos/leightphotography/1987698385/ [18:44] troy_s, favorite portrait ever [18:44] luisbg: Pretty simple stuff to shoot... and that looks like the levels may have been slid slightly in post. [18:44] luisbg: The general rule for photography is exactly what most mooky amateurs do [18:45] and that is? [18:45] luisbg: Put your subject when in direct sunlight such that the sunlight is directly behind the subject [18:45] luisbg: So that it is you, subject, sun [18:45] that makes a high contrast shadow [18:45] luisbg: Not at all [18:45] luisbg: it is called backlight [18:45] and is exactly what you see in that photo [18:46] the 'fill' comes from two places -- either expose for the ambient light (sometimes blowing out background but if you notice the trees are in shade) [18:46] or by laying something white in front / to the side of your subject [18:46] and the sun will hit it and fill the face [18:46] true [18:46] the _only_ way to shoot direct sunlight on skin [18:46] is using diffusion [18:46] the rest looks like shit [18:47] yeap [18:47] got confused [18:47] troy_s, so this are my two options [18:47] it creates a hideous rakey light with no 'core' [18:47] canon eos 400d with EF-S 18-55mm lense [18:47] let me see a link to the lens [18:48] or nikon d40x with 18-55 mm and 55-200 mm [18:48] i am 100% certain that you can get a decently fast lens with a macro for under 1000 with body [18:48] luisbg: the high end is easy to get to with a doubler if you don't mind losing some autofocus and such [18:48] doubler? [18:48] luisbg: a doubler is deadly cheap and useful to someone who wants to experiment with looks [18:48] luisbg: it is a [18:49] luisbg: small 'barrel' that is basically a 'bellows' between the lens and the body [18:49] ahhh ok [18:49] luisbg: it doubles the effective lens length [18:49] so it doesn't have to be the same mount type [18:49] ahhh no... I see [18:49] luisbg: yes... it does. [18:49] luisbg: you will be able to get canon doublers for cheap [18:49] luisbg: let me see if i can find a cheap macro combination pack [18:49] <_MMA_> (conversation interrupting comment) [18:49] cool! any links meanwhile I look for links to the lenses? [18:50] luisbg: yeah link for body again? [18:50] _MMA_, (that's all?) [18:50] troy_s, body A http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/ [18:51] body B http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40x/ [18:51] luisbg: another thing to remember is that like light, the ccd size is not linear. for example, going for 'twice' the resolution of a 6mp camera is not 12, its 36 [18:51] erk [18:52] yes [18:52] rather the square of the original dimensions... so like 2k by 3k would be 4 by 9 i guess [18:52] 4x6 24 [18:52] lol [18:52] bad math today [18:52] lol [18:52] * _MMA_ wants Troy to install Warsow so he can shoot Troy in the face. [18:52] luisbg: i bring that up because there is no sense in going completely bonkers on price to get the extra 4 mp and some crappy 1200 point metering [18:53] troy_s, lense A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF-S_18-55mm_lens [18:53] luisbg: the best photography will be achieved using your eye and figuring out how you want to expose the image -- the 'frills' are a little bit of a waste in the bang for buck category. [18:53] luisbg: is that the bundled lens? [18:54] troy_s, yes [18:54] camera A goes with lens A canon eos 400d with ef-s 18mm [18:54] 18-55mm* [18:54] lense B1 http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1855.htm and... [18:54] luisbg: also bear in mind that if you avoid buying the shitty digital lenses [18:54] luisbg: your money will go further [18:55] luisbg: as when you potentially upgrade to a full 1:1 body, you won't get vignetting. [18:55] 1:1 body? [18:55] luisbg: a 1:1 body is a body with a ccd/cmos censor the same size as 35mm film. [18:55] ahh ok [18:56] luisbg: it effectively opens up wide angle photography via lenses without using silly adapters like the 'fixed lens' cameras flog. [18:56] luisbg: more importantly, the depth of field is the same as a 35mm camera [18:56] luisbg: which is of huge importance to look [18:57] lens B2 http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/55200.htm [18:57] so... wrap up [18:57] yikes that's a slow lens [18:57] option A: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF-S_18-55mm_lens [18:57] or [18:58] How much is the Canon body? [18:58] option B: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40x/ http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1855.htm http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/55200.htm [18:58] troy_s, where I'm buying I can't get the body alone (I need financing) [18:58] luisbg: that 2nd lens would be effectively useless at 5.6 [18:59] lol [18:59] so it's not worth it [18:59] luisbg: not the 2nd. [18:59] the first? [18:59] luisbg: aim for the main market in that line -- the 18-sub hundred mm (in digital is that?) [19:00] luisbg: basically a 35mm equiv of say 30-70 that is fast -- 2.8. it should be affordable. [19:00] I don't understand you [19:00] (and by fast i don't mean super fast, but fast enough to shoot with available tungsten light and considerations) [19:00] luisbg: let me look at a local photo site... hold on. [19:00] ok [19:02] luisbg: christ i can't find one quickly. they are very common in 35mm and if the mount is the same it would work fine. [19:03] luisbg: what makes you want that 40D? [19:03] 400d? [19:04] luisbg: yes sorry [19:04] I'm looking for an affordable dslr with good image quality [19:04] luisbg: what is the price difference say, between the digi rebel 300d and 400d there? [19:04] what else would I want? [19:04] digi rebel 300d is out of the market [19:05] luisbg: you are aware that _any_ of those digital slrs (and I mean any -- pentax / canon / nikon's are in the same magnifcation class at the same price point) will seriously outshoot any of the 'all in one' pocketcameras. [19:05] I would go with 350d if I could find it here (I'm sure the difference of price would mean getting an other lens for the same bucks) [19:05] yeah... that's why I don't want a pocketcamera [19:05] and since I want a slr... I want the best for my little budget [19:06] luisbg: or getting a more versatile lens. the main lens components for versatility are lens length versatility with speed of lens (how fast the lens is) [19:06] luisbg: and with your budget, you don't want to over shell out for the body and crimp your ability to shoot [19:07] troy_s, I understand what you are saying [19:07] luisbg: 2.8 is a minimum speed at the wider angle (a still camera lens shifts f value as you go longer as compared to a motion picture camera that holds the f value constant as you zoom) [19:07] luisbg: by minimum speed i mean 'minimum speed that you would find useful' [19:07] troy_s, is the ef-s 18-55 lense a versatile lens? [19:07] luisbg: that extra stop of light is a huge bump when shooting say -- interior. [19:07] luisbg: let me scour the link again [19:07] luisbg: that size looks about right for the class. [19:08] troy_s, do you want to move this chat to a PM [19:08] it's getting big ;) [19:08] luisbg: sure. [19:20] luisbg: if you want a versatile lense by something like an 18-200 or so, it might be a bit more expensive but it will cover much more range [19:22] but in the cheaper stuff you will be barrel distortion, purple fringing, sharpness problems and they will not be too dark (the fstop stuff troy_s was talking about) [19:22] kwwii, I can have a 18-135mm with the nikon inside my budget [19:22] that 18-135 is a pretty good lense, all in all [19:22] for an inexpensive lense [19:22] they also make zooms which do not change in fstop, they are just really expensive [19:24] I am thinking about buying a 200-200 Nikor for christmas with a constant 2.8 but it costs like 6500 euros [19:24] ouch [19:24] that's a lot of money [19:25] nikon d40x body with this http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06080902nikonafsdx18-135lens.asp <-- 900 euros [19:25] yepp, but it will be the last telephoto lense I ever buy ;-) [19:26] luisbg: I have that lense as well...not a bad "every day" lense [19:26] kwwii, yeah... good thing is that these are investments for life [19:26] not like laptops ;) [19:26] are you buying it in a kit together or seperatly? [19:26] kit together [19:27] cool, you get the lense for almost nothing that way [19:28] luisbg: and no, you will be upgrading to the 1:1s when they become prolific. just make sure your glass is 35mm as opposed to that shitty 'D' marker. [19:28] luisbg: there are hundreds of camera shops with 2nd hand 35mm lenses... go use them. [19:30] luisbg: on that note, a prime lens will always perform better than a zoom, and you can get them for quite cheap in a 2nd hand shoppe. [19:32] just be carefull when buying used lenses, and make sure that it has autofocus [19:32] and honestly, with the kit prices you almost get the lense for free [19:33] but I do agree with the comment that should not buy the DX lenses [19:33] kwwii, the bad thing about nikon d40x is that focus motor is in the lens... so no autofocus if not nikkor lens [19:33] as a normal lense really is an investment for a lifetime, whereas the DX lenses is an investment for as long as you have a camera with a smaller sensor [19:33] luisbg: not a big deal [19:33] luisbg: if you are taking portrait shots (as seems to be what you want) manual focus is completely fine. [19:33] so this lens are DX or 35mm? [19:34] pretty much any nikon lense made in the last 10 years will be autofuocus (and any of the other lense manufacturers) [19:34] troy_s, I'm not sure yet if that's going to be my "style"... I have to find it shooting stuff (with a camera not a gun) [19:34] DX means that it is made for the smaller sensor [19:34] luisbg: the D shit is digital. it means that the glass isn't as big inside and that will mean vignetting as you increase your receptor size. (read useless when you upgrade to a real 1:1 body) [19:34] but manual focus on a digital camera is not what you want [19:35] as you do not have any way of knowing when it is really sharp [19:35] ??? [19:36] chemical film cameras had the nifty grids with blocks and such to know when it was really sharp, digital cameras do not have that [19:37] you will find that many of the pics you thought were sharp are not sharp [19:38] * troy_s outs.