[00:05] <doko> mathiaz: I have "some" merges outstanding, so please go ahead with anything (just drop me here please)
[00:48] <superm1_> is there a summary of the build chain changes and ramifications of these changes for hardy anywhere?
[00:49] <superm1_> because it appears that builds have added "-fvisibility=hidden -fvisibility-inlines-hidden" and caused a few FTBFS's on a few of my uploads
[00:53] <cjwatson> superm1_: there are *plans* to change default gcc options, but AFAIK they haven't been implemented yet
[00:53] <cjwatson> I suspect the changes are in fact in one of your build-deps, perhaps pkg-config files?
[00:54] <superm1_> cjwatson, hm interesting.  i wonder how those snuck in then
[00:54] <superm1_> i'll have to poke a little closer in a local pbuilder then
[00:55] <soren> cjwatson: Well, we switched to gcc-4.2, which meant a few things changed.
[00:56] <cjwatson> ok, true, the compiler defaults might be different, but you'd see that locally as well
[00:56] <soren> point
[00:56] <soren> superm1: http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.2/changes.html says something about C++ visibility changes.
[00:58] <superm1_> soren, do you know offhand what revision of gcc we were on before?
[00:58] <cjwatson> 4.1
[00:58] <cjwatson> specifically 4.1.2
[00:58] <superm1_> ah okay i see then
[00:59] <superm1_> i'm going to have to poke upstream a bit about this then
[01:49] <TheMuso> c
[01:49] <TheMuso> ugh wrong tab
[01:50] <ion_> d
[01:53] <amitk> e
[02:09]  * Hobbsee waves
[03:08] <mpt> imbrandon, siretart, hi, I notice you're involved with ubuntuwire.com
[03:09] <mpt> Have you been keeping track of <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/DeveloperWeatherReport>?
[03:12] <ajmitch> and there are a number of existing tools for universe that are now linked from qa.ubuntuwire.com
[03:12] <imbrandon> mpt: somewhat yes
[03:14] <imbrandon> mpt: it should be trivial to do that with qa.ubuntuwire.com honestly
[03:14] <imbrandon> well most of it
[03:21] <imbrandon> mpt: getting stgraber to work with us on some of the qa pages might be interesting too, just havent found the time to email her
[03:22] <cjwatson> stgraber looked male when I saw him in Cambridge
[03:22] <imbrandon> with a name like "Stéphane" i assumed female but ive been very very wrong in the past
[03:22]  * Hobbsee resists the urge to comment
[03:23] <cjwatson> imbrandon: it's a masculine name in French
[03:23] <imbrandon> ahh see , very very wrong again :)
[03:23] <cjwatson> Stéphanie would be female
[03:24] <imbrandon> ahh
[03:24] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I did the same thing
[03:24] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: why? :)
[03:25] <imbrandon> i hate assuming gender online anyhow, not that it matters either way imho
[03:25] <cjwatson> true
[03:25] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: well, "i expected you to be big and curvy" is coming to mind, but i've *no* idea why that might be... :)
[03:25] <imbrandon> i hate to ask
[03:26] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: hehe :)
[03:26] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: unfortunately, i lose all respect for people when they start hitting on me, at their second phrase.
[03:27] <ajmitch> no need to ask why, there
[03:27] <imbrandon> yea the whole "zomg pics or your a guy" thing :)
[03:28] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: worse than that :)
[03:28]  * ajmitch wonders how much of the developer weather report stuff has been implemented now
[03:28] <imbrandon> anyhow my appolgies for the gender mistake stgraber ( if you read the backlog )
[03:29] <StevenK> imbrandon: Tip: Do not assume gender with European names
[03:29] <imbrandon> ajmitch: actualy looks like just some parsing and such would be needed to make it 100%
[03:29] <imbrandon> 2 days worth of scripting maybe
[03:29] <ajmitch> imbrandon: the 'just' is what takes time
[03:29] <imbrandon> heh yea
[03:29]  * Fujitsu thinks we need a DeveloperWeatherReportDevelopmentWeatherReport.
[03:29] <ajmitch> reading the spec, the suggestions are that screen-scraping isn't really suitable
[03:30] <ajmitch> especially if you were doing it everytime the page was hit
[03:30] <imbrandon> ajmitch: yea its not BUT to get-r-done then file bugs and fix along the way ( kinda like lpusers.py )
[03:30] <cjwatson> we may have to screen-scrape to start with, but it should move away from that; and any necessary screen-scraping should be done asynchronously, not per page load
[03:30] <imbrandon> nah i would say a 1 or 2 time a day update
[03:30] <imbrandon> yea
[03:30] <cjwatson> Ubuntu days are one hour long
[03:31] <ajmitch> cjwatson: with the number of resources to pull from, I don't think it'd be possible to do it per page load
[03:31] <imbrandon> :)
[03:31] <cjwatson> ajmitch: quite so
[03:31] <cjwatson> (I'm serious with the hour thing. Around releases is when we need this sort of thing most, and 12 hour latencies are way too long then.)
[03:31] <imbrandon> next question is since i'm out numbered on the UW team 3 to 1 on php vs python i guess we're going python with it ?
[03:31] <Fujitsu> PHP is Evil®
[03:32] <ajmitch> it depends on who is going to be doing this work, and where it'd be
[03:32] <imbrandon> cjwatson: well nearer it release it would be trivial to update the refresh times
[03:32] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: just implement it in LP, and watch it all break :)
[03:32] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: Even an hour is annoying at times.
[03:32] <Hobbsee> but hey, at least it's instant!
[03:32] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It won't break; they have code review.
[03:32] <Fujitsu> [insert eye-rolling here]
[03:32] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: if it's anything to do with the archive, frequencies shorter than an hour are largely pointless
[03:33] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: unapproved queue.
[03:33] <StevenK> I recall saying that to cprov at UDS.
[03:33] <Fujitsu> I'm thinking bugs and stuff, but true.
[03:33] <Fujitsu> StevenK: What?
[03:33] <StevenK> "Why do you try and rebuild DEPWAIT every ten minutes?"
[03:33] <imbrandon> ajmitch: i would say we atleaste start something on qa.ubuntuwire.com/{weatherreport} ? and if it needs to be moved that shouldent be much of an issue
[03:33] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[03:33] <imbrandon> ajmitch: since its in place ~now~
[03:33] <ajmitch> imbrandon: alright
[03:33] <Fujitsu> Isn't there already somebody working on it?
[03:33] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: ok, anything after the publisher then
[03:33] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: yes, then i agree with you :)
[03:34] <StevenK> Fujitsu: I think pitti and I convinced him that an hour or a bit more would be more suitable.
[03:34] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: certainly somebody on Henrik's team was due to be working on it, IIRC Leann
[03:34] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Thankyou.
[03:34] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: That's what I thought.
[03:34] <cjwatson> ogasawara: ^--
[03:34] <ajmitch> cjwatson: so it'd be unnecessary duplication if we were to develop something?
[03:35] <cjwatson> well, it'd be nice to at least talk to the person assigned to it ;-)
[03:35] <imbrandon> or should we rope Leann to see what she has done and where and help
[03:35] <imbrandon> right
[03:35] <ajmitch> given that we already have a few tools for universe :)
[03:36] <imbrandon> brb mt dew time
[03:36] <ajmitch> I thought you'd kicked that habit
[03:36] <cjwatson> there are lots of bits to that job, so it shouldn't necessarily have to be just one person for the whole lot, I'd have thought
[03:36] <imbrandon> cjwatson: yea thats my thoughts too
[03:37] <imbrandon> even the current qa.uw.c page is bits from all over
[03:37] <imbrandon> anyone know the Leann's $time-of-day ? guess i could look on LP
[03:38] <cjwatson> BTW the bugs URLs on qa.uw.c should be bugs.launchpad.net rather than launchpad.net really
[03:38] <ogasawara> I'm here :)
[03:38] <cjwatson> (both work at the moment)
[03:38] <StevenK> imbrandon: She's GMT-7
[03:38] <ogasawara> cjwatson: was just about to ping you about the developer-weather-report
[03:38] <ajmitch> ah, hello ogasawara
[03:38] <imbrandon> easy nuff to fix, the site is in bzr , i'll make the change once i grab a dew
[03:38] <imbrandon> heya ogasawara
[03:38] <cjwatson> ogasawara: hmm, I wonder why Henrik isn't the approver. Maybe a holdover from Seville
[03:38] <StevenK> ogasawara: Hey! How was your flight back?
[03:39] <cjwatson> I think I'll punt it in his direction
[03:39] <ogasawara> cjwatson: probably, so who do I go to for review and approval?
[03:39] <ogasawara> StevenK: flight back was good.  it's nice to be home
[03:39] <cjwatson> *clicketyclick* Approver:    Henrik Nilsen Omma
[03:39] <StevenK> ogasawara: Agreed.
[03:39] <cjwatson> ^- him :)
[03:39] <ogasawara> cjwatson: ok thanks
[03:41] <TheMuso> cjwatson: I see that there is no document on the wiki for the bootloader review spec yet. I have found out what starts the at-spi registry daemon, and have found where in Ubiquity you start gnome-settings-daemon et al. The accessibility scripts for casper will also need to be altered, to work with the only-ubiquity option.
[03:41] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Since the spec isn't up, where do you want me to document all of this?
[03:41] <cjwatson> TheMuso: it's still on a piece of paper on my desk, can you wait a bit?
[03:41] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Certainly.
[03:42] <cjwatson> I should have it done once I finish $customer_project and performance reviews
[03:42] <imbrandon> ogasawara: ok so i guess its down to we have qa.uw.c and would love to either a) help you with ubuntu-weather-report or b) ummm yea we should get togather and drum something up so we dont have to dupe efforts
[03:42] <imbrandon> that and i'm sure you would welcome some help :)
[03:43] <ogasawara> imbrandon: I welcome all the help I can get :)
[03:43] <TheMuso> cjwatson: I'm subscribed to the blueprint anyway, but thought you may have had it in a digital format somewhere...
[03:43] <ogasawara> imbrandon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/DeveloperWeatherReport
[03:43] <cjwatson> TheMuso: sadly not yet due to Broadcom pain at UDS
[03:43] <ogasawara> imbrandon: that's all the info from UDS
[03:43] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Understandable. I'll wait, and add when the chance allows.
[03:44] <cjwatson> thanks, I'll try to remember to let you know
[03:44] <cjwatson> though if you're subscribed to the LP spec I think it should notify you
[03:44] <TheMuso> cjwatson: No problem, I'll see changes to the spec anyway.
[03:45] <TheMuso> Considering all other specs I'm subscribed to have notified me, I think there will be nothing to worry about.
[03:48]  * Hobbsee despams ubuntu-devel again.
[06:12] <Keybuk> (gdb) printf "%d\n", siginfo._sifields._sigchld.si_status >> 8
[06:12] <Keybuk> 17
[06:12] <Keybuk> gnargh
[06:12] <Keybuk> NOW WHY ARE YOU PUTTING THE SIGNAL THERE YOU FUCKER?!
[06:13]  * StevenK waits for his ears to stop ringing
[06:14] <stgraber> imbrandon: :)
[06:14] <Keybuk> I hate the kernel
[06:15] <Keybuk> I really, really, do
[06:16]  * desrt switches Keybuk to decaf
[06:16] <Fujitsu> Thankyou desrt.
[06:16] <StevenK> Bwaha
[06:19]  * TheMuso wonders why some of the folks from Canonical who are based in the UK are up so late/early.
[06:19]  * Keybuk amends his "Cool testing techniques in Upstart" presentation slides to include the percentage of KERNEL code that's covered by them too
[06:19] <StevenK> TheMuso: "Jetlag"
[06:20] <TheMuso> StevenK: Thats one thought that crossed my mind, but I am not entirely convinced thats the whole story. :p
[06:20] <StevenK> TheMuso: "Commitment" ? :-)
[06:20]  * Fujitsu thought the usual excuse was `dedication' or `commitment', yes.
[06:21]  * StevenK sighs.
[06:21] <StevenK> Helix, have you people not heard of $(MAKE) -C ?
[06:40] <dholbach> good morning
[06:41] <LaserJock> morning dholbach
[06:42] <dholbach> hey LaserJock
[06:43] <warp10> Hi all!
[06:58] <pitti> Good morning
[06:58] <Hobbsee> guten tag pitti, wie gehts?
[07:00] <pitti> Hobbsee: prima, danke! *umarm*
[07:01] <Hobbsee> pitti: :D
[07:01] <StevenK> Gasp. I think I understood that
[07:01] <Hobbsee> pitti: * umarm * zu Ihnen auch
[07:02] <pitti> Hobbsee: "Du"! I always hear a cracking in the back when someone calls me "Sie" :)
[07:02] <Hobbsee> pitti: hehe :)
[07:03] <Hobbsee> pitti: unless you're multiple people's worth, which is what i used, yes
[07:04] <pitti> Hobbsee: no, it's grammatically correct; "Sie" is not just plural (that would be "sie"), it's the polite addressing between adults who don't know each other very well
[07:04] <Hobbsee> pitti: must be just me hugging you and dholbach.
[07:04] <Hobbsee> pitti: indeed. i didn't use Sie :).  Although i was going to hug you singularly, not you plural.
[07:05] <pitti> Hobbsee: you used "Ihnen" :)
[07:06] <Hobbsee> i thought that was plural du.
[07:06] <Hobbsee> or plural you's.  i wasnt aware that there was a formal and non-formal form of ihnen.
[07:06] <Hobbsee> (or, ihr)
[07:06] <StevenK> Way cool. German Semantics
[07:06] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah.  nad they say english is screwed.
[07:07] <Hobbsee> StevenK: we dont have 4+ forms of the word "you".
[07:07] <Keybuk> traditionally, we do
[07:07] <StevenK> German generally doesn't steal words from English and subsume them.
[07:07] <Keybuk> we just eliminated them because we bought foreign printing presses
[07:08] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: thank goodness for that
[07:08] <Hobbsee> er, technically 4 versions of the same word, based on how you're using it.
[07:08] <StevenK> English can do the same with tenses and such
[07:08] <Keybuk> you, ye, þou, þee
[07:08] <Keybuk> iirc
[07:09] <StevenK> See also 'resent'
[07:09] <Hobbsee> didn't think it was every word, though :)
[07:10]  * Hobbsee just remembers the important parts of german - like, how to curse people in it :P
[07:11] <Keybuk> ironically, the four forms of "you" are coming back into fashion
[07:11] <Keybuk> mostly for effect
[07:11]  * Hobbsee hasnt seen them
[07:11] <Hobbsee> maybe being isolated has it's advantages.
[07:11] <Keybuk> you've obviously seen "you"
[07:11] <Keybuk> the generic one
[07:11] <Hobbsee> i meant the rest.  you're feeling pedantic today, i see :P
[07:11] <Keybuk> you've probably also seen the informal pair
[07:11] <Keybuk> "holier than thou"
[07:11] <Keybuk> "spake until thee"
[07:12] <Keybuk> ye is rarer, e.g. "hear ye, hear ye"
[07:12] <Hobbsee> "smite thou with a stick, until thee GTFO".  ja.
[07:12] <StevenK> Does 'thine' also fit in that mold?
[07:12] <Keybuk> thine is to thou as mine is to me
[07:12] <StevenK> Fairy nuff
[07:12]  * Hobbsee now recalls hating english.
[07:12] <Keybuk> thou, thee, thy, thine
[07:13] <StevenK> Only now, you say?
[07:13] <Keybuk> ye, you, your, yours
[07:13] <Keybuk> I, me, my, mine
[07:13] <Hobbsee> StevenK: heh.  i thought you knew about our english courses.
[07:13] <mdke> cjwatson: right. I mean I tried gparted too
[07:14] <Keybuk> interestingly the english formal "you" has the same prone-to-plurality problem as the german formal "sie"
[07:14]  * StevenK sobs as he straces python
[07:21] <mdke> cjwatson: it doesn't seem to be an installer issue at all, Ubuntu just doesn't recognise my hard drive...
[07:26] <pitti> Keybuk: do you think there is any sense in merging initscripts? we now carry patches (nfs-utils) which only adjust the dependency to initscripts for our old version number
[07:42]  * dholbach just fixed http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ again - the "responsible" section should finally be fixed
[07:42] <superm1_> hi dholbach
[07:42] <dholbach> hey superm1
[07:42] <dholbach> how's it going?
[07:43] <superm1_> very sleepless.  since UDS, i've had very little time to rest
[07:43] <dholbach> superm1_: I hope it won't be long until you can get back to a more normal schedule again?
[07:44] <superm1_> dholbach, well its the end of the term, so this is how it would be getting either way with projects and such needing to wrap up
[07:44] <superm1_> so another 2 or 3 weeks :)
[07:44] <dholbach> ugh
[07:44] <superm1_> dholbach, i was going to ask you, at UDS when you were talking about packaging, you were deleting entire words in your terminal really fast.  How were you doing that?
[07:45] <dholbach> slomo, asac, calc, doko_, pitti, asac, server guys (kees, soren_): there are a bunch of reviews for you on http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[07:45] <pitti> dholbach: ah, noted; thanks
[07:45] <dholbach> superm1_: alt-backspace?
[07:46] <superm1_> dholbach, ah is that it!?
[07:46] <superm1_> very cool
[07:46] <slomo> dholbach: will take a look later, thanks
[07:46] <dholbach> superm1_: nice :)
[07:46]  * dholbach hugs slomo and pitti
[07:46] <dholbach> you guys ROCK
[07:47] <superm1_> while pitti is in here, there is an SRU I uploaded during UDS that is still waiting to be released into proposed, can you do that?
[07:47] <superm1_> for mythtv on gutsy
[07:57] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[07:59] <pitti> hey MacSlow
[08:00] <MacSlow> Tag pitti
[08:00] <MacSlow> pitti, the article you posted to the list about usability is indeed a good read
[08:01] <pitti> thanks
[08:04] <MacSlow> pitti, some of the severe issue stated there are not directly in the control of distro people though... but rather upstream... mostly Xorg
[08:05] <pitti> MacSlow: I wonder whether we can do something about the compiz flickering, though, with the solution he mentioned in that article
[08:05] <pitti> I noticed the flickering, too, and indeed it spoils the experience a bit
[08:05] <MacSlow> that's why "we" should help getting more capable coding-hands involved into Xorg-work
[08:05] <pitti> (and this is a brand new laptop, no ancient hardware, etc.)
[08:05] <pitti> MacSlow: right, I understand
[08:05] <pitti> MacSlow: but there are some low-hanging fruit which we should pick for hardy, I think
[08:06] <MacSlow> if flickering means no-sync-to-vblank... then we'll have to wait for some stuff to land in Xorg
[08:06] <pitti> Interestingly I have exactly the same feeling about wasted panel space, I always merge the two panels, too
[08:06] <MacSlow> pitti, yes... the order of shutting down processes on logout... make compiz exit last so compositing stays alive as long as possible
[08:06] <pitti> if this is a more widespread phenomenon we should ponder changing it by default maybe
[08:07] <pitti> yeah, or that
[08:16] <Burgundavia> jcastro: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2007-September/msg00147.html
[09:07] <prem> hi
[09:07] <prem> I am trying to create a small application..so that I can display it under System---menu (along with Logout / Shutdown /AboutUbuntu) buttons.. I gave Categories=GNOME;GTK;Core; ...But still I can see my application under the menu..
[09:08] <prem> what can be the reason..can anybody guide in this..
[09:08] <prem> how can I make my application to display there under System menu..
[09:08] <Burgundavia> prem: this is really an upstream issue. I would ask on #gnome-hackers on GIMPnet
[09:10] <prem> Burgundavia: oooh..I asked in gnome-dev before..but they people told its impossible to add anything there..But in our Ubuntu..we have "About Ubuntu" option added..So I thougth I would ask here to our people..
[09:11] <Burgundavia> prem: I think the system menu is hard coded
[09:11] <Burgundavia> however, I am certain upstream would accept patches to make that not so
[09:12] <Burgundavia> I should clarify that
[09:12] <Burgundavia> you can add stuff to the admin and preferences submenus
[09:12] <Amaranth> 'About Ubuntu' is a patch to the panel code
[09:14] <prem> ooh..with gnome-panel ...
[09:17] <prem> and one more thing..is it possible to display the "system tray icon " of the update manager as a super user..?I can see it in my panel only as a normal user..is there any specific settings for that to view as a super user also..
[09:19] <dholbach> slangasek, TheMuso, siretart, lool, asac, calc, doko_, asac, server people (kees, soren): I just subscribed you to a bunch of bugs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ - thanks :-)
[09:21] <siretart> dholbach: k. thanks
[09:21] <dholbach> thanks siretart :)
[09:22] <siretart> dholbach: how often is http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ updated?
[09:28] <TheMuso> dholbach: np. Will take a look.
[09:30] <dholbach> siretart: every 30 minutes
[09:32] <soren> Could someone with archive admin powers give the binaries from gtk-vnc some love?
[09:33] <dholbach> seb128: ^ did you convince soren to become part of the desktop team? :-)
[09:33] <soren> :p
[09:33] <seb128> soren: doing it
[09:33] <soren> virt-manager needs it :)
[09:33]  * soren hugs seb128 
[09:37] <seb128> soren: done, will be available for the next publisher run
[09:37] <soren> seb128: Excellent! Thanks a bunch!
[09:38] <seb128> soren: you're welcome
[09:39] <Amaranth> seb128: Are you a person to talk to if I want the emerald-themes package from feisty pulled into hardy? It got removed in gutsy and shouldn't have been
[09:39] <seb128> Amaranth: no, you simply need a MOTU to upload it to hardy for you
[09:39] <Amaranth> Well, I could do that :P
[09:40] <seb128> easy then ;-)
[09:40] <Amaranth> I figured since it was already in the archive it would be easy to just pull in
[09:40] <Amaranth> Since nothing has changed
[09:44] <soren> I'm looking at bug 130836. It adds some openoffice icons to apache for directory indices. The text in debian/copyright will read: "These icons are trademarks of Pete Harlow. Permission to use and/or modify these images is granted for the identification and promotion of the OpenDocument Format (ISO 26300 and any later version published by OASIS or ISO) provided you acknowledge me, Pete Harlow, if someone asks."  Is that an acceptable license?
[09:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130836 in apache2 "Specify OpenDocument icon(s) in Apache2 configuration" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130836
[09:44] <soren> It's funny how you feel more and more confident about most things the more you do them. The more I deal with licenses and such, I get more confused and less confident.
[09:47] <Burgundavia> soren: at a quick reading, and IANAL, but that looks non-free
[09:47] <Burgundavia> the license restricts use
[09:48] <soren> Yes, it does.
[09:49] <Burgundavia> ask the original author to relicense under the apache license and get them upstream
[09:52] <Mithrandir> soren: as Burgundavia says: not free.  The licence also fails to grant redistribution rights (for both modified and unmodified icons)
[09:52] <soren> Mithrandir: Alright.
[09:52] <soren> Burgundavia, Mithrandir: Thanks.
[10:47] <mvo> doko_: do you mind if I take the tar merge?
[10:48] <doko_> mvo: please go ahead; not sure if that's still necessary (build using gcc-snapshot should give a hint)
[10:48] <mvo> doko_: I just tested it and it seems like a small patch is still required, I will mail it to debian once I verified it
[10:54] <doko_> hrm, I forwarded that to bdale ...
[10:57] <mvo> doko_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2001/ <- that one should fix it without the need for -fgnu89-inline, what do you think?
[10:59] <doko_> mvo: sure, this should work as well
[11:01] <mvo> thanks
[11:08] <mvo> doko_: I had a brief look at curl and it seems like libcurl-gnutls does not build the sftp support. it seems that building it is ok now because libssl2 does link against libgcrypt (instead of libopenssl) in the default build. if you don't object I would like to enable sftp in libcurl-gnutls as well
[11:14] <Kmos> is hardy still auto-syncing with debian ?
[11:14] <Hobbsee> yes
[11:14] <Hobbsee> (as per the schedule)
[11:15] <Kmos> ah ok =)
[11:15] <Kmos> thjx
[11:15] <Kmos> thx
[11:18] <siretart> pitti: is multiverse auto-synced as well? - or is that limited to universe?
[11:18] <pitti> siretart: multiverse isn't autosynced
[11:18] <pitti> hey siretart
[11:18] <siretart> hey pitti!
[11:18] <siretart> pitti: may I ask why not?
[11:19] <pitti> siretart: not sure, but sync-source -a doesn't do it
[11:19] <pitti> siretart: I might be able to convince it with some extra options, let me ask the elder archive masters :)
[11:20] <siretart> pitti: yes, that would be great, thanks!
[11:20] <siretart> else we would have to use mdt or something and would file sync requests semi-automatically, which cannot be in the interest of ubuntu-archive
[11:20] <pitti> right
[11:20] <Hobbsee> siretart: i'ts been done before.  *sigh*
[11:21] <Hobbsee> siretart: but yes, if you want to tsay alive....
[11:21] <siretart> Hobbsee: I'm not sure what you are referring to (Kmos?) - but I'm sure you understand what I meant to say
[11:22] <Hobbsee> siretart: oh, indeed.
[11:25] <pitti> siretart: so yes, it seems to be possible; I'll do that tomorrow on my archive day
[11:26] <siretart> pitti: thanks
[11:49] <Kmos> there is a mail-transport-agent (debian) in ubuntu?
[11:50] <StevenK> mail-transport-agent is a virtual package
[11:51] <Kmos> but it exists in ubuntu ?
[11:51] <StevenK> Yes
[11:51] <Kmos> ah thx.. that's to fix another bug open :)
[11:59] <pitti> mvo: gnome-app-install is the only main package which depends on python-gtkhtml2 (which in turn keeps the ancient libgtkhtml2 in main); do you know about any plans to port this to 3.18?
[12:02] <mvo> pitti: let me have a look
[12:04] <seb128> pitti: libgtkhtml2 != gtkhtml3.n
[12:05] <pitti> seb128: it's not just a newer API?
[12:05] <seb128> no, those are totally different libs and don't have the same purpose
[12:05] <mvo> I don't think there are python bindings
[12:06] <pitti> seb128: well, both are HTML rendering engines
[12:07] <seb128> I think one does editing and not the other one
[12:07] <seb128> gtkhtml is what evolution uses
[12:07] <seb128> when you read or compose mails
[12:07] <pitti> seb128: ok
[12:07] <seb128> libgtkhtml is a rendering one
[12:08] <pitti> seb128: ok, so we should only aim to get rid of gtkhtml3.8 then
[12:08] <seb128> yes
[12:08] <mvo> pitti: the best I can offer is to port to pymozembed (if it works now - it was broken for ages)
[12:08] <pitti> seb128: (which is only used by gnome-sharp2)
[12:08] <seb128> that one is deprecated in favor or gtkhtml3.14 (standard version update due to ABI change)
[12:09] <seb128> right
[12:09] <seb128> maybe slomo knows about that?
[12:09] <slomo_> one moment
[12:09] <seb128> slomo: gnome-sharp2 still Depends on gtkhtml3.8, any plan to port it to gtkhtml3.14?
[12:09] <pitti> mvo: well, don't worry for now; screem and gimp use the library, too (not the python bindings)
[12:09] <mvo> aha, ok
[12:10] <slomo_> impossible to port to gkhtml3.14 without breaking API/ABI, so no... but upstream plans to add a new gnome-desktop-sharp with contains for example a gtkhtml3.14 binding
[12:10] <slomo_> only problem are then all the apps the use the old binding but once a) gnome-desktop-sharp is released and b) apps are ported it can simply be disabled from gnome-sharp
[12:13] <pitti> hm, in main the users of gnome-sharp2 are f-spot, tomboy, and (still) beagle; I wonder whether they actually need the gtkhtml bindings
[12:22] <slomo_> pitti: they don't... monodoc-browser needs it though (so it can be moved to universe)
[12:23] <pitti> slomo_: I see; hm, doesn't help much, though, since it's still a build depends
[12:26] <slomo_> pitti: we could of course create a gnome-sharp2-universe package ;)
[12:26] <pitti> slomo_: yeah, with hacks like that
[12:27] <ogra> fspot might need it to generate the websites in the gallery function
[12:30] <ogra> mjg59, dont take all the blame on you for the brightness key patch ... i discussed it with hughsie on IRC one or two months ago (alongside with all the GINT/GUINT fuckup) i clearly missed to file an extra upstream bug about it but he cant say he wasnt aware at all
[12:32] <slomo_> ogra: i might be, i don't know much about f-spot ;) at least it uses gtkhtml-sharp for something while the others dont
[12:32] <ogra> was just a guess :)
[13:22] <ogra> woah,  evolution --force-shutdown in gutsy kills my panels
[13:22] <StevenK> It's a feature
[13:24] <ogra> heh
[13:24] <ogra> it didnt do any harm, just looks weird
[13:24] <elmo> hmm.  'Image resolution is out of bounds'.  thanks gimp
[13:27] <StevenK> elmo: Ouch. How large is that image?
[13:27] <Hobbsee> elmo: how does one get the default country mirror changed?
[13:28] <elmo> Hobbsee: talk to mirrors@ubuntu.com - but bring some evidence, as it's often not at all clear what the best choice for a country is
[13:28] <Hobbsee> elmo: right, OK
[13:28] <Hobbsee> elmo: thanks
[13:28] <elmo> StevenK: 1024x685 (sic)
[13:29] <seb128> elmo: the evolution and panel bug is known and fixed upstream already (maybe also in gutsy-proposed, not sure now)
[13:29] <elmo> seb128: blink?
[13:29] <StevenK> Blink. You'd think GIMP could handle that.
[13:29] <StevenK> seb128: You missed. You want ogra
[13:29] <seb128> elmo: sorry, that was for ogra
[13:29] <elmo> ah, right
[13:29] <seb128> StevenK: right
[13:29] <ogra> seb128, ah, thanks ...
[13:30] <seb128> StevenK: BTW could you have a look to the gimp merge? ;-)
[13:30] <ogra> its not *that* important, doesnt do any harm ... just looks a bit weird ...
[13:30] <StevenK> seb128: Sure. After I wake up
[13:30] <seb128> StevenK: "what up", in what timezone are you now? ;-)
[13:30] <ogra> (if you hav ot use --force-shutdown thats not good anyway :) )
[13:30] <seb128> "wake up"
[13:31] <Hobbsee> seb128: he's in steve's special timezone.
[13:31] <StevenK> seb128: I've been in Australia/Sydney since I got back, so nyah. :-P
[13:32] <Treenaks> "his own happy time zone"
[13:32]  * Hobbsee is on HST.
[13:32] <StevenK> Hobbsee: And crack
[13:32]  * StevenK hides
[13:32] <Hobbsee> hush.  we don't discuss our crack supplies in publically logged channels.
[13:48] <nakeee> how do I remove patch I added?
[13:48] <nakeee> I made a typo and I want to upload a different one instead
[13:49] <persia> nakeee: To where was the patch uploaded?
[13:49] <norsetto> nakee: you mean on launchpad? There is a menu on the left
[13:49] <nakeee> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/162678
[13:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162678 in gdm "Ipv6 enabled gdm can't get host correctly in ipv4" [Undecided,New]
[13:49] <persia> nakeee: Just edit the patch, and delete the attachment.  Add another comment with the fixed patch.
[13:50] <nakeee> thanks
[13:51] <persia> nakeee: Just for reference, if your patch gets uploaded to the archives, it needs a new revision, rather than just an updated patch.  It's always best when you can catch them early.  Thanks for helping :)
[14:16] <gaspa> norsetto: for something like that ( #162881 )  there's the need to attach a build log, or something more specific?
[14:16] <gaspa> ( i mean... for a merge that involve a security bugfix )
[14:16] <seb128> bug #162881
[14:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162881 in python-django "sync version 0.96.1-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162881
[14:17] <gaspa> seb128: thanks. ;)
[14:17] <seb128> you're welcome
[14:18] <norsetto> gaspa: that bug is a sync right?
[14:18] <gaspa> i think so.
[14:19] <norsetto> gaspa: then I don't get your question, security fixes for the +1 release are like all other fixes, or I misundertood your question?
[14:19] <gaspa> ok. this answer my question.
[14:20] <gaspa> norsetto: the question was if a bugfix has more control also when involved in a sync process..
[14:20] <gaspa> s/has/need
[14:21] <norsetto> gaspa: for the stable release they are different, you know : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures already I guess
[14:21] <gaspa> yes, i saw it.
[14:22] <norsetto> gaspa: oh, you mean if we need to record it somewhere else?
[14:22] <gaspa> no. no.. .you already answered....
[14:22] <norsetto> gaspa: ok
[15:39] <pitti> seb128: can I nag you again about moving some gnome -proposed to -updates?
[15:39] <seb128> pitti: sure, I didn't do the daily batch yet ;-)
[15:39] <seb128> doing it now
[15:42]  * pitti hugs seb128, merci
[15:43]  * seb128 hugs pitti back, de rien
[16:15] <asac> anyone has a minute to NEW xulrunner-1.9-gnome-support? (just a new binary)
[16:16] <seb128> asac: doing it
[16:16]  * asac hugs seb128 
[16:16]  * seb128 hugs asac back
[16:17] <pitti> tepsipakki, bryce: do you know whether mesa can now build with something less ancient than gcc 3.4?
[16:17] <pitti> (same question to all about grub)
[16:17] <seb128> asac: accepted
[16:18] <asac> great ...
[16:18]  * asac back to holiday ;)
[16:19] <tepsipakki> pitti: well, debian doesn't have those limitations, but 4.2 revealed a bug with hppa
[16:19] <tepsipakki> FTBFS due to ICE
[16:19] <seb128> asac: enjoy!
[16:20]  * pitti mutters something about maintaining old cruft only due to unsupported arches with about 2 users
[16:20] <tepsipakki> pitti: that bug is now worked around with mesa...-2 ;)
[16:20] <tepsipakki> gcc 3.4 is used for amd64, i386, lpia...
[16:21] <pitti> tepsipakki: in 7.0.2-1ubuntu2? or in 7.0.2-2 in Debian?
[16:21] <tepsipakki> pitti: the latter
[16:21] <tepsipakki> so it's a merge candidate
[16:21] <pitti> ah, awesome
[16:22] <tepsipakki> lpia was added to the gcc-3.4 list in gutsy..
[16:22] <tepsipakki> maybe Mithrandir knows better
[16:23] <IntuitiveNipple> Does anyone know of a tool/script that can take two sorted text lists, and output them side-by-side so that where they match, the entries appear on the same line of the output?
[16:25] <pitti> IntuitiveNipple: diff -y?
[16:26] <IntuitiveNipple> diff -y -d doesn't manage it unfortunately... I've just seen List::Compare on CPAN so I'll try that, else I'll write a quick C prog for it
[16:27] <IntuitiveNipple> I'm trying to compare the Ubuntu kernel config with a gentoo config, to see if the differences could cause a kernel panic on Gutsy that Gentoo doesn't see
[16:27] <pitti> eww, C is propably the least appropriate language for that... python or perl are much easier
[16:27] <zul> IntuitiveNipple: meld?
[16:28] <pitti> IntuitiveNipple: hm, but comparing those should work just fine with diff -u <(sort gentooconfig) <(sort ubuntuconfig) ?
[16:28] <nemo_work> IntuitiveNipple: I'm really shocked there's not a diff setting you can't get to do that
[16:28] <IntuitiveNipple> the lines don't match up enough, so i need a one-2-one compare
[16:29] <IntuitiveNipple> I've been messing with diff for 10 minutes but it can't get it
[16:29]  * IntuitiveNipple goes to check meld
[16:29] <nemo_work> curious. I must have different inputs
[16:29] <nemo_work> tossed a gvim -d comparison up, and seemed just fine.  perhaps you're asking it to be a bit too clever :)
[16:29] <nemo_work> can't massage the files in your diff tool?
[16:30] <IntuitiveNipple> Although they are sorted, there's lots of differences in entries (some in one not in the other, visa versa)
[16:31] <nemo_work> IntuitiveNipple: riight, I used as input two lists of compiz plugins
[16:31] <nemo_work> still seemed fine *shrug*
[16:31] <IntuitiveNipple> It's always the easy things that end up being the annoyances :)
[16:31] <cjwatson> IntuitiveNipple: is "join -a 1 -a 2 -o '1.1 2.1' file1 file2" remotely close to what you want
[16:31] <cjwatson> ?
[16:31] <IntuitiveNipple> um um um
[16:32] <cjwatson> probably not ideal
[16:32] <nemo_work> cjwatson: that's a nifty trick
[16:32]  * nemo_work files it away for reference
[16:32] <cjwatson> IntuitiveNipple: you could try comm(1) too
[16:33] <pitti> IntuitiveNipple: (or using diff with -w to ignore whitespace)
[16:33] <IntuitiveNipple> clever *!^&
[16:34] <IntuitiveNipple> Now all I need to do is work out how to improve the output of that - thanks cjwatson
[16:34] <IntuitiveNipple> pitti: All whitespace already long gone, and all comments removed
[16:34] <cjwatson> IntuitiveNipple: combine(1) in moreutils might be useful too
[16:35] <IntuitiveNipple> lol... what's that saying about never one around when you want one, then they all come at once?
[16:35] <cjwatson> (and has friendlier syntax)
[16:36] <cjwatson> there's loads of stuff in coreutils that people forget about, and moreutils needs to be more widely used
[16:36] <IntuitiveNipple> yeah, my head is hurting trying to understand join's FORMAT
[16:36] <cjwatson> I was actually wondering whether we should put moreutils in standard
[16:36] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: doit. :-)
[16:36] <IntuitiveNipple> See, that's the thing about Linux, you *know* there's a tool in there someplace that'll do what you want for some trivial task, but it'll take you an hour to track it down!
[16:37] <nemo_work> IntuitiveNipple: or you ask in #bash ;)
[16:38] <IntuitiveNipple> Ahh, I was thinking of doing a bash script... handy with them :)
[16:40] <IntuitiveNipple> OK, this did it nice enough to be readable "join -a 1 -a 2 -o '1.1 2.1' config-gentoo config-gutsy | sed -e 's/^\( CONFIG.*\)/\t\t\t\1/' config.join"
[16:41] <IntuitiveNipple> Thanks cjwatson, I can get on now
[16:42] <nemo_work> IntuitiveNipple: say, um, given what it seems you were wanting to do...
[16:43] <IntuitiveNipple> uh-oh
[16:43] <nemo_work> IntuitiveNipple: couldn't you have just iterated through file X and grepped for matching lines in file Y?
[16:43] <nemo_work> as a bash one-liner?
[16:43] <nemo_work> seems it would have avoided cleaning the configs, too
[16:43] <IntuitiveNipple> I guess, I was thinking of it, but I try to be elegant to my own detriment sometimes!
[16:43] <nemo_work> hm
[16:43] <nemo_work> writing a C program is more elegant than a bash loop? :)
[16:43] <IntuitiveNipple> meld is the same as diff, doesn't output what I want
[16:44] <IntuitiveNipple> nemo_work: It'd have ended up washing the dishes, too :)
[16:44] <IntuitiveNipple> I have a core template for basic C progs ready to roll, just plug in the args config and the 'work' function and its done
[16:49] <pitti> hey, forwarding sudo patches to upstream actually works :) it already got committed to cvs after just one day \o/
[16:57] <cjwatson> nemo_work: if it's just matching lines, then 'combine file1 and file2' is probably a lot easier :-)
[16:57] <cjwatson> (I couldn't tell from IntuitiveNipple's question exactly what he was trying to achieve)
[16:58] <IntuitiveNipple> get the matching entries in two different kernel config files to line up side-by-side
[17:00] <cjwatson> yes, but I wasn't sure whether it was important also to display the non-matching entries
[17:07] <IntuitiveNipple> yes, everything needs to be there... it was not so much a diff as an 'aligned compare' based purely on the CONFIG_XXX match
[17:10] <IntuitiveNipple> I suppose the ideal result would have been three fields:  CONFIG_KEY FILE1_VAL FILE2_VAL
[17:13] <nemo_work> IntuitiveNipple: you know, this join command seems like it can handle that too :)
[17:14] <IntuitiveNipple> not quite - it can't handle "CONFIG_KEY=X" and "CONFIG_KEY is not set" as the same 'line' because of the field delimiter
[17:15] <nemo_work> oh. doesn't take arbitrary delimitter eh
[17:16] <nemo_work> guess you could filter through a sed first :)
[17:22] <IntuitiveNipple> If you could see the size of my sed expression! And to cap it all the bug-reporter has just reported that, "oh, I reinstalled and it works now, it might be caused by Lilo, going to install it now and test" !
[17:26] <pitti> seb128: I am about to move pidgin-otr to main; do you think we should just put it straight into desktop?
[17:27] <seb128> pitti: if it's in main, why not
[17:27] <seb128> pitti: why do you promote it?
[17:27] <pitti> seb128: it was approved a long time ago, and now MagicFab reminded me about it
[17:27] <pitti> seb128: and it sounds pretty useful
[17:28] <pitti> seb128: (would you be up for a quick test, BTW? I tested it a while ago, but I'd like to see the current version)
[17:28] <seb128> sure
[17:28] <seb128> makes sense to add it to desktop if it's in main imho
[17:30] <pitti> that's what I thought (it's tiny)
[17:30] <geser> does MoM track now experimental?
[17:35] <acidBURN> is there a way to adjust the cpu speed (AMD) in Xubuntu as there is in Kubuntu
[17:37] <Riddell> acidBURN: #xubuntu
[17:37] <acidBURN> they seem to be a sleep
[18:47] <Lutin> the ubuntu changes in fltk seem to have been fixed in debian some time ago. any reason not to sync it ? (would like to make sure before requesting a sync)
[19:40] <pwnguin> question about bug 54816
[19:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 54816 in ubuntu "Edgy should include 'bioapi' to support fingerprint readers" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54816
[19:43] <pwnguin> this guy wants to work on this blueprint -- but I think it would be worthwhile to have the technical council review the design
[20:08] <Keybuk> cjwatson: isn't moreutils combine exactly like coreutils comm ?
[20:09] <Keybuk> ah, no, reading the manpage it's a bit more flexible
[20:19] <Chipzz> uh
[20:20]  * Chipzz looks puzzled
[20:20] <Chipzz> I was just browsing svn.gnome.org
[20:20] <Chipzz> and at the bottom of the page it states "Hosted by Canonical"
[20:20] <Chipzz> I thought RedHat hosted the gnome servers?
[20:21] <elmo> Chipzz: we host a couple of gnome servers
[20:21] <Chipzz> apparently :)
[20:22] <elmo> Chipzz: svn is one, the other is, some i18n site.  erm, progress.gnome.org I think?
[20:22] <Chipzz> when did that happen? (just curious)
[20:22] <elmo> Chipzz: quite a while ago, we've been hosting progress for like a year and a half maybe?
[20:23] <Chipzz> well doesn't matter much anyway :)
[20:23] <Chipzz> I was just a little surprised :)
[20:24] <warp10> Hi all!
[20:25] <LaserJock> elmo: and plans to host a Debian machine? I noticed that Xandros sponsors one and I thought that was kinda cool
[20:26] <LaserJock> downstream giving back kind of thing
[20:27] <elmo> LaserJock: AFAIK Debian's never asked, but I imagine if they did, it'd certainly be possible
[20:27] <elmo> (usual disclaimer: I can't speak authoratitively for Canoncial on these (or any) matters)
[20:27] <LaserJock> sure
[21:11] <syp|> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=402742#c25 <-- would it make sense to include these gnome libraries in ia32-libs?
[21:11] <ubotu> Mozilla bug 402742 in ImageLib "nightlies on Ubuntu 7.10 x64 do not show stock icons" [Major,New]
[21:20] <Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
[21:44] <Riddell> siretart: why is libgpg-error in /lib not /usr/lib?
[21:44] <siretart> Riddell: because cryptsetup needs it there
[21:46] <Riddell> siretart: hmm, but now /usr/lib/libgpgme.la expects libgpg-error.la in /lib
[21:46] <siretart> *sigh*
[21:46] <siretart> can't we just drop these funky .la files?
[21:47] <siretart> Riddell: does rebuilding libgpgme fix that?
[21:49] <Riddell> siretart: let me try
[21:50] <siretart> Riddell: btw, StevenK did the fighting against libtool here, you might want to hear his opinion
[22:01] <pwnguin> yikes. irssi netsplit detector fails
[22:01] <pwnguin> keescook: the full situation is thinkfinger wants to store fingerprint data in $HOME
[22:01] <keescook> pwnguin: hm.  best I can see is to make sure there's a mode 700 .directory for it.
[22:01] <keescook> sounds like it's similar to .ssh secret keys, etc
[22:02] <pwnguin> i suppose so
[22:02] <pwnguin> keescook: is a directory nessecary?
[22:04] <slangasek> creating a subdir is usually helpful for preventing accidents
[22:04] <slangasek> i.e., getting the umask wrong when copying the files
[22:05] <pwnguin> of course, they're also considering acls
[22:11] <pwnguin> also, are the possible negatives to enabling acls by default?
[22:11] <pwnguin> (in fstab)
[22:12]  * keescook defers to installer gurus
[22:12] <pwnguin> I'd like to be able to get thinkfinger to work out of the box, but there's a host of integration issues
[22:13] <keescook> using a directory is filesystem-portable...
[22:13] <pwnguin> right
[22:13] <slangasek> one of the problems with enabling acls, AFAIK, is that they're not preserved by backups
[22:13] <pwnguin> hmm
[22:14] <elmo> last time I tried enabling ACLs and using them extensively (beagle), i ended up with FS corruption
[22:14] <pwnguin> nice
[22:14] <Fujitsu> Ouch
[22:14] <elmo> of course, presumably I was just unlucky and they're not that generically broken :)
[22:15] <elmo> but it happened three times before I ran away screaming
[22:15] <elmo> (it was always recoverable with fsck)
[22:15] <pwnguin> is acls broke or is beagle?
[22:15] <Fujitsu> Am I missing something crucial, or is the python-django merge on http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html listed incorrectly? That base version is bogus, and it's listing the new version in experimental.
[22:15] <elmo> pwnguin: who knows, could have been hardware or anything.  it was a long time ago
[22:16] <pwnguin> the one point about $HOME that was brought up is home mount via NFS
[22:21] <slangasek> if beagle manages to put your fs in a state that requires recovery, that'd be an fs bug (or lower), not a beagle bug
[22:23] <pwnguin> fair enough
[23:40] <wasabi> geeze... so all teh X apps moved back into large packages.