MIDIEAmit,  I am trying to enable for the LCD Touch screen, the Touchscreen uses a penmount 6000 driver which requires USB Filesystem support in the kernel.  Do you know if this is planned to be implemented anytime soon?00:30
ChickenCutlassamitk: ping00:30
amitkChickenCutlass: yo mike!00:31
ChickenCutlassamitk: Can you tell me what version of ACPI is supported in the kernel00:31
MIDIEah.. so thats how one gets someones attention00:32
ChickenCutlassamitk: that is what I though -- our customer is having trouble with their BIOS -- we are not getting events like battery, ac interrupts00:32
ChickenCutlassThey said they are using ACPI 2.000:32
amitkMIDIE: yes... you need to use the nickname to get the irc client to beep ;)00:33
amitkChickenCutlass: does this happen on Crownbeach boards too?00:34
ChickenCutlassamitk: I do not know -- there is no battery so how can I tell00:34
ChickenCutlassamitk: Is there a way to debug this00:34
amitkso its only battery and ac events?00:35
amitkChickenCutlass: have you checked for thermal events?00:35
MIDIEThere should be a Battery virtual drive supported by the BIOS00:36
ChickenCutlassamitk: also power button00:36
amitkMIDIE: identify yourself... you are from behind the Intel firewall :)00:36
ChickenCutlassamitk: how do I check thermal events00:37
MIDIEI am the MID IE and PDE for Menlow00:37
MIDIERobert Frisbee00:37
amitkIE & PDE?00:37
amitkMIDIE: Hi Robert00:37
MIDIEYea..  I am taking over Bond, PDE duties for menlow00:37
amitkMIDIE: What is IE and PDE? :)00:38
MIDIEIE = Integration Engineer and PDE = Product Development Engineer00:38
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: Can you tell me if there are any ACPI issues with Menlow or Poulsbo?  My customer says that the ACPI in the BIOS works just fine under XP but not Linux00:38
amitkChickenCutlass: It exports a /sys file somewhere... And I assume is should have something in /proc/acpi as well00:38
MIDIEWhich board version and BIOS version are you using. 00:39
MIDIEThere are issues with the older boards and BIOS's with ACPI compliancy00:39
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: They are using a B1 stepping of the Poulsbo00:40
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: Can you be more specific about the issues - - can you think of why XP would work fine and not Linux00:41
MIDIEso that has the Silverthorne A1 running BIOS version.20 something..00:41
MIDIELet me check my errata sheet00:42
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: thanks00:42
patmMIDIE, It is a Phoenix BIOS that they are customizing themselves00:43
MIDIEHmm..  If they are customizing their own BIOS, I am afraid I cannot be much help.   I would recommend them try version .54 which is available up on ARMS.  There were some issues related to ACPI that were fixed around BIOS version 4600:46
MIDIEIf BIOS 54 solves there problem, then I would look at what they are trying to implement00:47
MIDIEA wild swing in the dark, I would think there might be a problem with how ACPI is identified by the OS which is causing problem00:48
amitkMIDIE: I have a Crownbeach with AMIBIOS 08.00.14. Do I need to update?00:48
amitkChickenCutlass: could you check for the thermal events00:48
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: I tried passing the acpi_osi to Linux but that does not seem to help00:49
ChickenCutlassamitk: I can check tomorrow -- I do not have the board with me00:49
MIDIELook at the ID string..00:50
MIDIEsomething like PSC0G0XX  the XX is your BIOS version00:50
MIDIEChickenCutlass did the Xp installation have the chipset drivers installed?00:51
MIDIEok..  The latest BIOS is .54 some ACPI issues were fixed on version 4600:51
MIDIEamitk do you have access to ARMS?00:54
amitkMIDIE: none of us do00:55
MIDIEHow do you usually get BIOS updates?00:55
MIDIEthrough Premier?00:56
amitkMIDIE: not gotten one yet00:57
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: I will have to check that00:57
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: Which drivers exactly?00:57
MIDIEOk..  I just made sure the legal stuff was out of the way so we can post .54 to premier.  I will check with my support person to see if he has loaded them up yet.00:57
MIDIEthe chipset drivers Intel® ALL OS PV00:58
MIDIEI know that the chipset drivers include ACPI functionality for Windows.   I am curious if the chipset team is enabling for linux and if functionality has been left out.  I am going to have to dig into this a little.00:59
amitkMIDIE: ChickenCutlass: But ACPI events should come from the BIOS, right? Chipset drivers shouldn't be required for that...01:01
ChickenCutlassamitk: that is what I thought01:01
MIDIEYes.. For the most part.  However01:02
MIDIEI have noticed that sometimes the ACPI spec was deviated from.   For example,  I have difficulty checking processor temp and voltage without the Intel Specific tools.01:03
MIDIEto be honest,  I have not tried with Menlow and XP.01:03
MIDIEI will have to give it a looksie and see if Menlow also has a ACPI which is "customized"01:04
=== asac_ is now known as asac
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: If this helps sci events are not working01:05
MIDIEgimmeasec.  I am loading Ubuntu onto my system and loading the ACPI tools.01:06
MIDIEJUST out of curiosity.  Is your BIOS set to conform to the 2.0 or 3.0 spec?01:08
MIDIESCI events has to be enabled, It comes disabled by default01:09
ChickenCutlassoh -- how does one do that01:10
MIDIEI believe its in Advanced > acpi configuration > chipset ACPI > 01:12
MIDIEthen you can enable the SCI IRQ01:13
MIDIEamitk I am trying to enable the LCD Touch screen for Crown Beach, the touchscreen that we have uses a penmount 6000 driver which requires the USB Filesystem to be supported in the Kernel.  Do you know if this is going to be implemented anytime soon,  or are you waiting to receive the LCD Kits before its enabled.01:14
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: ok -- I will look and see tomorrow if the BIOS I have actually has this option.01:14
MIDIEif it does not.  check premier for the latest BIOS.  I know .54 has the option01:14
MIDIEif your running an older BIOS, just upgrading might solve your problem01:14
MIDIEI need to play with ACPI more.  01:15
ChickenCutlassMIDIE: ok -- need to go thanks for the ideas01:15
MIDIEon the Moblin Ubuntu,  I am able to get battery states from the ACPI01:16
amitkMIDIE: You mean USB_DEVICEFS?01:16
MIDIEamitk yes01:16
amitkMIDIE: Looks like it is enabled for the lpia flavour in the Ubuntu kernel01:17
MIDIEHmm...  wierd,  I checked under proc and it did not seem to be supported.01:18
MIDIEI will poke at it more01:18
StevenKMIDIE: The config used to build the kernel is under /boot, for digging purposes01:19
MIDIECool.  Thanks!  Perhaps I just need to update my version.  I am still on build 1101:19
amitkMIDIE: I just booted up my Crownbeach. cat /proc/filesystems shows usbfs01:22
MIDIEamitk ok.   I will rebuild.  I just checked, and I don't have a /proc/filesystems  /proc/fs only has nfsd01:23
amitkMIDIE: even my /proc/fs has only nfsd01:24
amitkbut you need to mount the usb filesystem, right?01:24
MIDIEI don't have filesystems.  Yes. the driver for penmounts needs it01:24
MIDIEamitk yea.. Its looking for USB device filesystem but it want one to mount it from mount -t usbdevfs none /proc/bus/usb01:27
amitkMIDIE: yeah... that can be added to fstab01:28
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corevettehow is the project coming along?06:03
dholbachgood morning06:40
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davidmJust about time to start the meeting16:57
SciriGreetings davidm.16:57
davidmhi Sciri 16:58
davidmDoes anyone know if Don Johnson is joining us today?  I don't see him here17:00
mawhalenI'll check17:00
looldavidm: A lot of Intel folk seem to have been disconnected last hour17:01
davidmOuch, that has happend before when their proxy died 17:01
rustylthe proxy seems to be working now17:01
davidmI'll wait a few more minutes before starting. rustyl good to hear :-)17:02
rustyli'm behind the firewall right now17:02
loolIndeed, I see people rejoining again now17:02
davidmAh, Don_Johnson just joined. :-)17:02
Don_JohnsonYes, I'm here.17:02
davidmOK I'll start the meeting then unless we need to wait for anyone else?17:03
MootBotMeeting started at 17:03. The chair is davidm.17:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:03
davidmOK action items from the last meeing in order.17:04
davidmtopic upload new version of hildon-desktop out of bzr 17:04
davidmclosed: tfheen/lool to upload new version of hildon-desktop out of bzr (lool: Complete)17:04
davidmgrumble forgot the []17:05
davidmnet topic17:05
lool(unless anyone has any question on this; it's built for lpia too)17:05
davidm[topic] bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes.17:05
MootBotNew Topic:  bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. 17:05
loolThey aren't around17:06
loolPostpone until end of meeting?17:06
davidmI was just noticing that.  Don_Johnson should we postpone this to the end or next meeting?17:06
bfillerany Intel guys know if bspencer will be joining?17:06
cwong1_he just joined moblin17:06
Don_JohnsonI don't know if Bob will be joining.17:06
cwong1_I sent him a message to join17:07
loolI also pinged horaceli on #moblin17:07
davidmhi bspencer_ 17:07
lool18:05 < davidm> [topic] bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works  and suggest changes.17:07
loolbspencer_: ^17:07
bspencer_hello. sorry for being tardy.  I'll stay after school and clean the erasers.17:08
bspencer_lool, thx.  We tried it and all seems ok.17:08
bfilleris this in regards to PPA?17:08
davidmbspencer_, no changes to suggest then?17:08
bspencer_lool,  I don't have changes per say, but we have new things we might need to add soon17:08
bspencer_hildon-desktop ubuntu branch is good17:08
bspencer_we want to be able to disable the hildon-desktop banner from showning.17:09
loolbspencer_: Okay; feel free to push these and/or ask me to pull stuff from somewhere (patch or bzr branch; please not git!)17:09
bspencer_bfiller -- how are you doing that now?  Or do you just have 2 banners showing?17:09
bfillerbspencer_: two banner currently showing..17:09
bspencer_lool, right.  We'll push these into ubuntu branch and notifiy you17:09
loolbspencer_: bfiller added a gconf key allowing this to be hidden or shown17:09
bspencer_bfiller, lame17:09
bspencer_lool,  I think that was for the marquee, not the startup banner17:09
Mithrandirbspencer_: hildon-desktop banner?17:09
loolbspencer_: Ah right17:09
bfillerbspencer_: easy enough to add for banner too17:10
bspencer_Mithrandir, there is a "app starting" banner in hildon-desktop17:10
bspencer_bfiller, true.  That is a good option17:10
Mithrandirah, that one.  Yes17:10
bspencer_Mithrandir, bfiller has a better solution for a banner.  17:10
bfillerbspencer_: I'll take the action for looking at it17:10
bspencer_bfiller, great.17:10
bspencer_<bfiller> is this in regards to PPA?17:11
bspencer_this would go into both Hardy and PPA17:11
bspencer_(right ? )17:11
loolIf it's useful in the PPA, which I guess is the case for bfiller, then yes17:11
davidmbfiller, is this the action item you are taking: "bfiller to for looking into  a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop"17:12
bfillerbspencer_: have you tested latest hildon_desktop with the flash plugin home screen (as opposed to html)17:12
bfillerbspencer_: yes, correct17:12
bfillerbspencer_: seems like you can't click in flash movie in latest hildon-desktop17:12
bfillerdavidm: yes17:12
bspencer_bfiller,  latest hildon-desktop means which one? 17:13
bspencer_the one in gutsy now?17:13
davidm[action] bfiller to for looking into  a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop17:13
MootBotACTION received:  bfiller to for looking into  a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop 17:13
bspencer_and which mobile-basic-flash ?17:13
* amitk is back17:13
bfillerbspencer_: sorry, the one in PPA and ubuntu branch on launchpad17:13
loolbspencer_: 0.43; the one in PPA or hardy17:13
loolor bzr branch17:13
lool(in *gutsy* PPA or in hardy)17:14
bspencer_bfiller,  I  didn't try with  flash.   If you are seeing problems then perhaps my job isn't done.17:14
bspencer_but I'm wondering if hildon-desktop is the reason...  Seems odd17:15
bfillerbspencer_: I'll take action to investigate this issue (if in fact it is one..)17:15
bspencer_davidm,  better leave my ACTION open.  I'll try to close with bfiller on the flash problem.17:15
davidmbspencer_, will do.17:15
bspencer_bfiller, ok.  We'll check on it too17:15
davidmbspencer_, that was ubuntu branch works?17:16
bspencer_davidm, yes17:16
davidm[action] continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week.17:16
MootBotACTION received:  continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week. 17:16
davidmOK are we ready to move to the next item?17:17
davidm[topic] Don_Johnson to explain USB client use case when user is using ext3 on device and windows on desktop17:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Don_Johnson to explain USB client use case when user is using ext3 on device and windows on desktop 17:17
loolDon_Johnson: ^17:19
Don_JohnsonSorry, give me a minute to catch up.17:19
Don_JohnsonWe looked into this use case.  The USB client utilities being provided by Intel will not address this case.17:20
Don_JohnsonHow we address this user case is an open issue.17:20
smagounDon_Johnson: we think this is the primary use case for USB client. When do you expect to have a plan?17:21
davidmWhat will the USB client actually do?  Just provide access to any installed flash cards that are VFAT in type? (Like the Nokia N800 does.)17:21
Don_JohnsonI'll have to escalate it to see if we can get some resoruces to work on it.17:21
MithrandirDon_Johnson: it doesn't seem clear to me how the USB client support is supposed to work at all then?17:22
Don_JohnsonYes, this appears to be a big hole.  Which I'll have to follow up on.17:23
Mithrandirdavidm: can you give Don_Johnson an action item so we make sure this gets followed up on?17:24
kyleN_Given the many connection options on the MID, I wonder whether USB client support is needed. how about network shares instead 17:24
davidm[action] Don_Johnson to investigate USB client use case and how to export ext3 filesystems to windows use case  17:24
MootBotACTION received:  Don_Johnson to investigate USB client use case and how to export ext3 filesystems to windows use case   17:24
Don_JohnsonAt least we need to have an understanding of how it might be used.  So I'll look into that.17:25
davidmI do know that the Nokia N800 does not export the file system, only the installed flash cards, but then it only writes files to the flash cards that I've seen when I use mine.17:26
davidmBut I could have missed something.17:26
amitkdavidm: That is correct17:26
davidmAre we ready for the next action from last week?17:26
loolI am (complete too; nothing to report here in particular)17:27
Mithrandirsure, move on17:27
davidm[topic] lool to upload h-d to ppa (Complete)17:27
MootBotNew Topic:  lool to upload h-d to ppa (Complete) 17:27
davidmThis appears to be complet17:27
lool(so that's done; it was the same as the first upload, but to a different target)17:28
davidmNext topic17:28
davidm[topic] lool to upload an updated MIC which uses the PPA /by default/17:28
MootBotNew Topic:  lool to upload an updated MIC which uses the PPA /by default/ 17:28
loolThat's in progress now; I've started piling some small fixes on MIC and will work on changing URLs next17:28
smagounlool: which version of MIC are you working on? 17:28
loolThe git one17:28
smagounright, which revision? it changes almost daily?17:29
loolWhich I'll ultimately test and upload to hardy, then backport to gutsy-ppa with the URLs updated to pull from gutsy+gutsy-ppa17:29
smagounor are you pulling a new rev each day?17:29
amitklool: What does it mean by default? Will MIC not pick up LUM in the gutsy repo?17:29
loolsmagoun: I pulled this morning again17:29
loolsmagoun: I'm pulling regularly17:29
loolamitk: I'm going to change MIC in hardy to pull from hardy + hardy-ppa (currently empty, but for symetry)17:30
loolThen backport the same MIC source code to gutsy-ppa but change it to pull from gutsy+gutsy-ppa17:30
davidmlool, do you have an ETC for it?17:30
loolSo the MIC in hardy will pull from hardy and the MIC in gutsy-ppa will pull from "gutsy+ppa"17:30
amitklool: ok.. thats fine then.17:30
smagounjust be careful with what you pull, MIC in git has been unstable17:30
looldavidm: Unless it's overly complicated, I should be done on monday, but tests might take me some time17:31
tonyespylool: let us know if you need help testing...17:31
davidmSo I'll carry it as an action item for next week then?17:31
looltonyespy: Thanks17:32
looldavidm: Yup17:32
davidm[action] carry over lool to upload an updated MIC which uses the PPA /by default/ to next week.17:32
MootBotACTION received:  carry over lool to upload an updated MIC which uses the PPA /by default/ to next week. 17:32
davidm[topic] rob_ubuntu take an action item to report back to the team what i find out and what our requirements will be for graphics drivers17:32
MootBotNew Topic:  rob_ubuntu take an action item to report back to the team what i find out and what our requirements will be for graphics drivers 17:32
robri sent out email last week to the list to cover this topic17:33
loolrobr: What are the chances to get something cleaner for gutsy's xorg?17:33
smagounI did some digging, there are only a couple small differences between EXA 2.1 and Intel's EXA17:33
robrbasically the current psb gfx driver requires xorg 1.3 with a patch for libexa to bring it up from 2.1 to 2.2 + changes17:34
lool(Either small patches for libexa 1.1 or a libexa 1.1 backport of the driver)17:34
loolrobr: Bringing exa to 2.2 is not acceptable to our xorg folks, so we wouldn't be able to support this17:34
robri'm working with the gfx driver team to get them to move to xorg 1.4 which has version libexa 2.2 and is in Hardy17:34
smagounFWIW the delta between 2.1 and 2.2 is really small, and the primary change is labelled "this is backwards compatible"17:35
robrin addition i'm working with them to get drm.ko from the version they have not to the drm.ko that is in the 2.6.24 kernel17:35
loolsmagoun: Bryce told me moving from exa 2.1 to 2.2 would be huge work to backport17:36
MithrandirI'd like us to focus forward and not get stuck in trying to backport the world to the PPA.  The current version works, albeit with performance problems.17:36
loolLike between 6 and 12 core xorg modules to backport17:36
robrthis is getting kicked around the management chain here at intel -- so i don't yet have a commit to make these changes17:36
smagounrobr: so to be clear, we (canonical mobile business unit) are on our own for accelerated 2D support, right?17:36
loolMithrandir: The MID team needs to use gutsy though17:36
robrsmagoun: i'm not following what you mean17:36
loolMithrandir: The main target (hardy) seems to be in progress as upstream driver folks rebase on 2.2 and the hardy kernel version17:37
Mithrandirlool: for now, yes.  We're not going to try to get exa 2.2 with xserver 1.3, that's not recommended by upstream at all.17:37
smagounrobr: Intel's not going to deliver functional 2D acceleration on gutsy17:37
robrMithrandir: i agree with you and i'm trying to work the issue on this end17:37
Mithrandirlool: investing significant resources into the PPA stopgap is not something we want to do.  It's a stopgap measure, nothing more.17:37
Mithrandirrobr: yup, thanks.17:37
loolMithrandir: Yes, which is why I'm questionning the availability of exa 2.1 patches (for xorg 1.3)17:37
loolMithrandir: You mean for UME or UME + MID?17:38
smagounlool: Intel's EXA is 2.1 + the following patches:17:38
MootBotLINK received:  http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commitdiff;h=f8482967ae8080f49dd1bbb0b79cc65020df679f 17:38
MootBotLINK received:  http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commitdiff;h=56cc24ffb21f7fd41f9ea9e8f969aa85021b9f53 17:38
MootBotLINK received:  http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commitdiff;h=6ed08949af4f7ac09170d3d9581e4092b24a84ee 17:38
smagounyuck...thanks mootbot.17:39
davidmSo it will listen to others for some things......17:39
Mithrandirlool: first, please don't confuse xorg version numbers with xserver version numbers.  They're not the same. :-)17:39
Mithrandirlool: secondly, xserver 1.3 already has exa 2.1, iirc?17:40
smagounMithrandir: yes17:40
loolMithrandir: Yes, not 2.217:40
loolMithrandir: Where did I confuse these two??17:40
Mithrandir18:37 < lool> Mithrandir: Yes, which is why I'm questionning the availability of exa 2.1 patches (for xorg 1.3)17:40
robrthat's my understanding and the current gfx drivers require a patch to libexa to bump it to 2.2 for 2D excelleration17:40
loolOk, so I should have said xorg server here, not xorg, thanks17:41
robri think 2.2 plus additional changes though17:41
Mithrandirrobr: correct.  You can force it to work with 2.1, but it then glitches somehow.17:41
Mithrandir(unsure exactly how)17:41
robrMithrandir: yes, exactly17:41
Mithrandirlool: the MID team is also going to move to hardy, they might lag a bit more, but investing lots of resources to do something which is not a blocker isn't a good use of resources.17:42
loolsmagoun: (I don't know about the diffs you pasted; I don't even know whether this is enough to move from libexa 2.1 to 2.2 or whether more changes are included between these)17:42
smagounAlright. Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy.17:42
loolMithrandir: I certainly did not understand that they would move to hardy which is why I'm bringing this up17:42
smagounlool: I do know about the diffs, I looked them up. :) They don't need 2.2 per se, they need those diffs.17:43
loolBut if they are fine with using hardy, then I'll shut up :)17:43
davidm[action] smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy.17:43
MootBotACTION received:  smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy. 17:43
smagounNo, we're not switching to Hardy right now.17:43
robrlool: that's the issue we're trying to resolve internally17:43
Mithrandirsmagoun: I'm not talking about right now, I'm talking about in the short-to-possibly-medium-term.17:43
loolrobr: Well you're also trying to target the same kernel as hardy does and the same libexa + xorg server as hardy does; but there was consensus no that, so I didn't discuss it17:44
smagounMithrandir: we're quite nearsighted17:44
robrso what i need to know is do you need 2D & 3D acceleration on Gutsy and when will your customers switch to Hardy17:44
bspencer_is smagoun's team called "MID team" ?  or is that my team?  I thought smagoun's team might be giving a real customer gutsy for awhile (e.g for the next 4 months)17:44
bspencer_so supporting gutsy is important17:45
smagounbspencer_: we're on Gutsy for a couple of months, yes.17:45
Mithrandirbspencer_: smagoun's team is the "Canonical MID team", or something like that.  We're still struggling with a good name for them. :-)17:45
bspencer_but you guys can wrestle over that17:45
bfillerthe plan is to stay on Gutsy for our customers until Hardy is stable, then switch17:45
smagounbspencer_: My group is the "mobile business unit"17:45
kyleN_we need 2d and 3d acceleration on gutsy17:45
bfillerrobr: ideally, a solution for gutsy and hardy would be great17:46
bspencer_smagoun, MBU -- formerly known as Pepper guys17:46
* amitk struggles with MID, UMPC, UME, UMC and now MBU every day17:46
robrthen you will have to take what we have now, i can't see anything changing on Gutsy -- Hardy is when I can see a change17:46
loolToo many TLAs17:46
bspencer_amitk, don't forget MIC17:46
Mithrandiramitk: I thought we killed UMC?17:46
bfillerrobr: sounds reasonable17:47
amitkMithrandir: good riddance17:47
smagounrobr: what is Intel doing to avoid the version mismatch problem in the future? It's happend several times now.17:47
davidmOK, we are running out of time... Do we know what we are doing at this point?17:47
loolOk; so point closed; everybody is free to try fixing gutsy 2D/3D support; development tries to target hardy's kernel + xorg server + libexa versions for now; correct?17:47
davidm12 minutes left.17:48
robrsmagoun: physical torture for those groups that fall out of line17:48
bfillerlool: I think that is an appropriate summary17:48
robrbfiller / lool : i think that summary is correct17:48
davidmOK next topic then?17:48
loolYup; yours17:49
davidm[topic] davidm to verify a new time for this meeting. (Complete: Every Thursday at 17:00 UTC is the new standard meeting time.)17:49
MootBotNew Topic:  davidm to verify a new time for this meeting. (Complete: Every Thursday at 17:00 UTC is the new standard meeting time.) 17:49
davidmThis is the new time until the next time change I think.17:49
Mithrandirsounds splendid to me.17:49
davidm[topic] carry on "Discuss process for Gutsy / Hardy transition (bspencer)" for next week17:50
loolI guess everybody here knows about the new time or wouldn't be here :-P17:50
MootBotNew Topic:  carry on "Discuss process for Gutsy / Hardy transition (bspencer)" for next week 17:50
bspencer_great for us.  no change is good17:50
bspencer_davidm, seems like we have already been doing this17:50
bspencer_what was remaining to hash out?17:50
davidmSort of, but we carred it over so I just want to make sure there is nothing else or I'll close it.17:50
davidmAnything else on this topic?17:51
davidmOK then, next topic17:52
davidm[topic] Specs need to be finalized next week (for the 22nd)17:52
MootBotNew Topic:  Specs need to be finalized next week (for the 22nd) 17:52
loolSo that's just a reminder that the dead line for the contents of specs before review is the 22nd, that's next week17:52
tonyespywhat does finalized mean?17:52
davidmAnyone that is drafting a spec needs to have it finished next week. 17:53
loolI don't know whether the mobile project is affected by the same deadlines though17:53
davidmFinished/ Complete17:53
davidmWe are17:53
davidmMithrandir, from the drafter completing the spec to finialzing it approximately how long does that take?17:54
davidmMithrandir, A day/hours?17:54
davidmI've never finalized a spec as yet.17:54
tonyespyfor the record, i'm on the hook for a blueprint describing usability/functional changes to network-manager for mobile.17:54
loolThere's no drafter for mobile-hardy-image-creator on my specs, other specs seem to have some drafting already17:55
tonyespysince, i'm just starting it....it's doubtful it can be "finalized" by next week17:55
Mithrandirdavidm: depends on how many specs pile up at once.17:55
bspencer_Mithrandir, there was a guy who was going to own System Update stuff.  I don't remember.  Is he going to write a MID-specific spec for that?17:55
Mithrandirbspencer_: we had a miscommunication wrt that, so we need to do something clever for that.  We'll be providing the UI for that, but it might be somewhat delayed over the original schedule.17:56
Mithrandirdavidm: but in general, review + approval takes an hour or two per spec.17:56
davidmIf I understand the Canonical process if it's not finalized it's not in hardy (I think) Mithrandir is that basically correct?17:56
bspencer_ok.  there's some details we discussed wrt updating, app install, website, etc that should be written somewhere17:56
bspencer_( Mithrandir )17:56
loolHappyCamp_ubuntu: Does anything needs drafting for mobile-hardy-image-creator?  There's currently no associated wiki page on that17:57
Mithrandirdavidm: s/Canonical/Ubuntu/, otherwise yes.17:57
davidmway running out of time here are we OK to run over?17:57
MithrandirI'm fine running over.17:58
bspencer_my topics can wait if needed.  I'm also fine running over17:58
loolI'm fine too17:58
davidmDoes anyone have to leave  in 2 minutes or can we run over?17:58
Don_JohnsonI'll be leaving17:58
Mithrandirbspencer_: is it in the notes from the BOF?  If so, they should be fine being picked up.17:58
davidmDon_Johnson, I'll post you the URL for Mootbot so you can read the rest of the info17:58
bspencer_Mithrandir, probably....   I went through the BoF's for the apps but not that one in particular17:59
bspencer_someone took to BoF for the apps and put them in the specs.  whoever did that:  thanks!   I tried to clean them up a little too17:59
davidmOK, are we ready to move on?18:00
bfillerbspencer_: I did that for the apps. Who owns the system updates spec?18:00
bfillerbspencer_: hopefully the info is still in gobby?18:00
loolsystem updates is registered by StevenK, assigned to mvo18:00
bspencer_bfiller, thanks a lot. 18:00
lool(approver is mobile team, no drafter)18:00
* bspencer_ looks around for a volunteer, then pretends he is busy checking email18:02
bfillerlooks like the spec has some BoF notes from UDS at a very high level18:02
bspencer_on volunteer this week.   davidm let's move on18:02
davidmfinally a new topic not an old action18:03
davidm[topic] input methods: scim or hildon input method? - Kyle18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  input methods: scim or hildon input method? - Kyle 18:03
kyleN_I got some Chinese input method stuff working on a UME target via SCIM with Arne and Lool. Posted to list&wiki. There's also the Hildon Input Method approach, about which I can't find much info. 18:03
kyleN_so the question is: has mobile decided which approach to use?18:03
bspencer_>  stuff working   18:04
bspencer_what does that mean?18:04
bspencer_it is elegant and works well?18:04
smagounbspencer_: we wouldn't want it to stand out :)18:04
kyleN_it means you can enter Simplified Chinese characters from a USA layout keybaord in mobile18:04
kyleN_both hardware keybaord and virtual18:04
Mithrandirdoes there exist an on-screen keyboard plugin for SCIM?18:04
kyleN_I think it will work for the other CJK languages but haven' tested18:04
bspencer_smagoun, so synical ! :)18:04
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bspencer_Hildon Input method -- we need to investigate more18:05
bspencer_I'm always uncertain whether this has been opened or not18:05
bspencer_there's not a lot of web documentation on it18:06
davidmhas anyone to date looked at the Hildon Input method?18:06
kyleN_a canonical fellow who works in Taiwan/Asia indicates scim may be a better option in the short run, at least for the mobile business unit18:06
kyleN_because red flag uses it and it works18:06
smagounexecutive decision: we're using scim18:06
bspencer_Taiwan/Asia guys' job is asian input though18:07
kyleN_he also indicated hildon IM didn't work too well but I didn't get the details18:07
bspencer_he has a tainted perspective :)18:07
kyleN_No, his job is bizdev18:07
bfilleris hildon input method currently included in ume?18:07
Mithrandirbfiller: no18:07
bspencer_no one has tackled trying to get it to work that I know of18:07
MithrandirI've poked at it a little bit while at UDS + allhands.18:08
MithrandirI know StevenK has poked more at it18:08
bfillersounds like we need an action of compare/contrast scim and h-i-m and include the appropriate one in ume18:08
davidmI agree but we need a person that is going to do the action18:08
kyleN_with support from lex, I would be willing to own the action18:09
MithrandirI volunteer StevenK, in absentia18:09
kyleN_+1 on Mith ;)18:09
davidmHow about kyleN_ and StevenK own the action18:10
bfillerdavidm: sounds good18:10
kyleN_hmm. that seems diluted18:10
kyleN_who really owns it then?18:11
davidmWell I think you do since you18:11
bfillermaybe StevenK can get h-i-m included in the build so you can test18:11
davidmve done at least one side of it18:11
davidmThat makes sense to me.18:11
kyleN_sounds reasonable18:11
bfillerkyleN_: you've already got scim - just need to try h-i-m to see which is better18:12
davidm[action] StevenK to get h-i-m included in the build so KyleN_ can test18:12
MootBotACTION received:  StevenK to get h-i-m included in the build so KyleN_ can test 18:12
kyleN_i'll note that as a non-chinese speaker it is difficult to evaluate, but c'est la vie18:12
davidmOK, move on?18:13
bfillerkyleN_: perhaps we can get Kevin to help us18:13
kyleN_He alrady said scim was preferable18:13
kyleN_I'll ping him and ask for details18:13
bfillerkyleN_: we will force him to test h-i-m as well :)18:13
tonyespyis it possible to get both installed in an image and make them dynamically switchable?18:14
davidmkyleN_, perhaps you can speak with him further to determine why he feels that way?18:14
davidmtonyespy, I have no idea.18:14
kyleN_davidm: I will email him and broach the subject seriously18:14
bspencer_tonyespy, certainly possible18:14
davidmkyleN_, thanks18:14
kyleN_tony: probably not dynamically, but maybe witha  reboot/new env vars18:14
bspencer_tonyespy, or at least have two options for different images.18:14
davidm[action] kyleN_ to email Kevin to understand his issues with  h-i-m 18:15
MootBotACTION received:  kyleN_ to email Kevin to understand his issues with  h-i-m  18:15
davidmAre we ready to move on?18:15
davidm[topic] i18n: need plan to ensure everything's set up for translation - Kyle18:16
MootBotNew Topic:  i18n: need plan to ensure everything's set up for translation - Kyle 18:16
bspencer_we put a todo item for l10n18:16
bspencer_and i18n is not in our plans18:16
kyleN_when I change the lang to chinese and generate the appropriate locale and look at the UI18:16
kyleN_I see lots of text that is in english, and some that is in chinese18:16
kyleN_many settings applets have a mix of chinese and english18:17
bspencer_kyleN_, that's because chinese pepole use a lot of english words18:17
loolkyleN_: I think some moblin apps are not gettexized18:17
kyleN_the marquee has a mix: some of it seems hard coded18:17
tonyespybspencer: seems like a pretty big hole if it's not in your plans...18:17
kyleN_many hildon menus are english18:17
bspencer_we will gettextize our apps, but not translate them to other languages18:17
kyleN_bspencer_: great18:17
bspencer_by Feb18:18
kyleN_does that include control panel applets et al?18:18
bspencer_et al18:18
kyleN_so all other apps need to be analyzed18:18
bspencer_yes, for the 4:  home (marquee), control panel, browser (already done), media player18:19
davidmOK are we ready for the next topic now?18:19
kyleN_i propose analyzing an app for i18n is an "offical" requirement, just like hildonizing18:19
tonyespykyleN: where will the results of this "analysis go"?18:19
tonyespya blueprint?18:20
tonyespya doc on the wiki?18:20
kyleN_tonyespy: I don't know, but it has to be managed and tracked18:20
tonyespyso there needs to be an action item...18:20
kyleN_how about adilson?18:20
tonyespyto create a document somewhere that tracks status...18:20
bfillerdavidm: think we need an action (I volunteer Adilison) to go through the apps on launhpad and determined if and how they support i18n18:20
davidmMithrandir, your input here?18:20
loolkyleN_: erf :)18:21
Mithrandirmobile-hildon-input-methods sounds like the right spec this analysis should go to.18:21
bfillerdavidm: then based on the findings someone will actually need to do the work of implementeing gettext if not done18:21
tonyespyMithrandir: why, aren't we talking about output?18:21
kyleN_maybe the apps could be assigned to various folks: divide and conquer18:22
kyleN_at least for the analysis phase18:22
davidmWhen does this need to be done by? 18:22
Mithrandirtonyespy: inteed, so it should go to the i18n spec.18:22
tonyespythe sooner the better....18:23
kyleN_bfiller: do you know our schedule requirements?18:23
Mithrandirmy brain is just trying to explode here.18:23
tonyespyMithrandir: take deep breath...we need ya!18:23
bfillerkyleN_: don't know.. but we should analyze asap so we know what work needs to be done18:23
kyleN_do we need a real master list of current and proposed apps?18:24
kyleN_we want to add some: like drivel (blog)18:24
bfillershould start with the set that has been commited for Hardy18:24
tonyespyi 2nd that plan...18:25
loolYeah, like bfiller said; the list of apps is supposedly in the specs18:25
kyleN_I'm not sure how to find that set exactly, but OK. 18:25
kyleN_everytime I press adilson on his list, he says it's not final and is bound to change18:25
tonyespyit will...18:26
bfillerkyleN_: good point. Anyone have a link to spec for commited apps?18:26
garylkyleN_: Isn't it here?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UserApplications18:26
kyleN_that's adilsons list, but it's currently more of an analysis o whether to include certain apps or other apps18:26
kyleN_I think we need the Current list and the Proposed list18:26
bfillerdo we need an action to write an official spec on what will be included in Hardy?18:27
tonyespywhy don't we start with the list of apps we have now, and modify/change the list as apps are added/removed???18:27
tonyespy[stomach grumbles...]18:28
bfillerdavidm: can Adilson own the spec since he's done the most work here?18:28
kyleN_it would be helpful if it shows whether the app is in the build, whether it's been analyzed for gettext18:28
looltonyespy: We try to commit to implementing specs for a release, so a list of apps would be informal IIUC18:29
tonyespydoes it need to be a blueprint or can it just be a wiki page?18:29
davidmAdilson owns the spec "mobile-applications" already as the drafter and the assignee 18:29
tonyespyalso, if there are proprietary apps involved, where does that analysis go?18:29
looltonyespy: And at that point, my understanding is that we're not supposed to add any new blueprint; but then it might be ok for the mobile project this time around18:29
davidmMID group18:29
kyleN_in general, we created a page of "app criteria" and it would be nice if the apps were analyzed by those18:29
bfillerdavidm: ok, here is a link to the spec https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileApplications18:30
davidmor is it "MBU"18:30
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davidmso do we have an addition action item here?18:30
bfillerdavidm: spec should be updated to include two things: List of commited apps for Hardy, Analysis of "app critieria"18:31
davidmwe are way over time at the moment18:31
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bspencer_action bspencer:  I'll organize the prioritze that list and send out for comment18:31
bspencer_s/that list/the list of criteria18:31
kyleN_bspencer: thx18:31
bspencer_some are must-have.  others are nice-to-have18:31
davidm[action] mobile-applications spec should be updated to include two things: List of commited apps for Hardy, Analysis of "app critieria18:31
MootBotACTION received:  mobile-applications spec should be updated to include two things: List of commited apps for Hardy, Analysis of "app critieria 18:31
davidmOK next topic?18:32
tonyespykernel status/updates + sdio schedule??18:32
bfillersounds good18:32
davidm[topic] Xephyr with GL support and I don't know who posted it.18:32
MootBotNew Topic:  Xephyr with GL support and I don't know who posted it. 18:32
bspencer_We need a Xephyr that supports GL.  I spoke with Bryce about it.  He said the task for including such changes into Hardy were big but that he could create some .debs for us to use assuming he got permission from Collin for the work. 18:32
bspencer_in the meanwhile, we will create this too and post on moblin.org18:32
bspencer_not sure how long it will take Bryce, but we need it sooner18:32
bspencer_(that's all, just FYI)18:33
davidmOK thanks18:33
davidm[topic] Tagging moblin component versions18:33
MootBotNew Topic:  Tagging moblin component versions 18:33
davidmbspencer_, did you post this one too?18:33
bspencer_and FYI:  due to a suggestion from smagoun  we will try to tag our components when a release is cut18:33
bspencer_davidm, yes18:33
loolbspencer_: "Not sure how long it will take but we need it sooner" I have to quote that!18:33
smagounbspencer_: thanks18:33
bspencer_that's all on that topic too.18:34
davidmK, I'm out of topics18:34
lool"It's due yesterday!"18:34
davidmAny last items18:34
tonyespyyea, what happened to my topics?18:34
looltonyespy: Where are they on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071115 ?18:34
bspencer_topic:  kernel status/updates + sdio schedule     (I'm guessing).  robr  you still around?18:35
davidmI don't see any on the page18:35
tonyespynope i screwed up and forgot to press save [sheepish grin]...18:35
davidmOK press save now :-)18:35
* bfiller getting dizzy from hunger :)18:36
robrbspencer_: what's that?18:36
tonyespyquickly, robR and I discussed having intel discuss kernel/driver status at the weekly mtg18:36
bspencer_tonyespy, what is your topic?18:36
davidmStill not there18:36
tonyespyalso, want an idea of where the SDIO work stands...18:36
davidm[topic] <tonyespy> quickly, robR and I discussed having intel discuss kernel/driver status at the weekly mtg18:37
MootBotNew Topic:  <tonyespy> quickly, robR and I discussed having intel discuss kernel/driver status at the weekly mtg 18:37
tonyespydavidm: that's cause there was a conflict18:37
robrtonyespy: i've posted our status to the mailing list that past two weeks18:37
ChickenCutlasstonyespy: ctrl-S18:37
robrtonyespy: if you need more details i'll be happy to discuss18:37
davidmDoes that bring us to a close?18:38
tonyespyi'll offline it for now, but i would like a short briefing during this weekly mtg is possible18:38
tonyespyi'm good...18:38
davidmThen I will apologize now for allowing this meeting to run so far over.18:38
tonyespyone last thing...18:39
MootBotMeeting finished at 18:39.18:39
kyleN_it was all good material18:39
tonyespythe lexington team will not be around for the next mtg due to the holiday.18:39
bfillerdavidm: lots of stuff to figure out18:39
davidmTrue but I really really don't like allowing meetings to go this far over.18:39
tonyespyshould we re-schedule for wed?18:39
bfillerdavidm: agreed18:40
davidmtonyespy, yes I think so if we can fit it in, since the entire US will be out.18:40
tonyespyok, can you send an email to folks18:40
davidmI will and poll everyone.18:41
tonyespycool.  ttyl18:41
amitkrobr: those status reports are great.. keep them coming18:41
davidmShould have done it at the beginning of this meeting18:41
robramitk: thanks, no problem -- i will try my best. ;-)18:41
kyleN_cheers - lunch18:41
loolI'm off for dinner too; bon appétit everybody18:42
bfillersee ya18:42
amitkbye all18:44
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