[00:29] <nikolam> Hi
[00:29] <nikolam> I need advice regarding testing Hardy
[00:29] <nikolam> What Virtual Machine/virtualization software should I use
[00:29] <nikolam> I have Amd X2 Cpu with Virtualization extensions
[00:30] <nikolam> What should be fastest and best for testing virtualization progremme?
[00:35] <stdin> nikolam: any of them should do, I recommend virtualbox or vmware
[00:41] <RAOF> I like kvm.  That's got the advantage of being all-free.
[00:41] <RAOF> And it's pretty fast with the VM extensions.  I should probably see about backporting Hardy's kvm to gutsy, actually.
[00:50] <nikolam> RAOF, I never managed to know if kvm is using my cpu`s VM extensions or not..
[00:50] <nikolam> How should I recognise it is using it
[00:51] <nikolam> What Gui do you use for it?
[00:54] <nikolam> stdin, : Is virtualbox as fast as vmware?
[00:55] <stdin> nikolam: yeah it's as fast, it's also open source ;)
[00:55] <RAOF> At least the open-source version is :)
[00:56] <RAOF> nikolam: If the window says "qemu/kvm", then it's using the vm extensions.  If it just says "qemu", then it's not.
[00:56] <RAOF> nikolam: You can also tell by the speed, of course :)
[00:56] <nikolam> I installed Virtualbox GUI 1.5.0_OSE taht`s it?
[00:56] <macogw> nikolam: faster :)
[00:57] <macogw> how are the default apps in ubuntu decided?
[00:57] <macogw> i dont think they're all gnome-default
[00:57] <RAOF> Consensus, generally.  Although it starts with gnome-default, and moves on from there.
[00:57] <macogw> i know ff instead of epiphany is a break from gnome
[00:57] <nikolam> I am runing on Qemulator and it displays just qemu :( I have kvm_amd loaded
[00:58] <macogw> so if i wanted to suggest a different default music player, i'd put it in a blueprint, then?
[00:58] <macogw> because exaile is really nice
[00:58] <RAOF> macogw: You'd probably want to hit the mailing list, I think.
[00:58] <macogw> which'n?
[00:58] <RAOF> macogw: "Really nice" is, in my experience, *extremely* variable person-to-person :)
[00:58] <RAOF> macogw: Probably ubuntu-devel-discuss.
[00:58] <macogw> heh
[00:59] <macogw> it's like amarok but gtk+
[00:59] <RAOF> Which to me translates as "unnecessarily complex", but gtk+ :P
[00:59] <macogw> haha
[00:59] <hydrogen> and translates to me as "silly"
[01:00] <macogw> well banshee doesnt notice if you add music to a watched directory if its not ripped using banshee
[01:00] <RAOF> With the exception of (workning) gapless playback and cd-ripping, rhythmbox is my dream music player.
[01:00] <macogw> and songbird doesnt monitor directories recursively or do artwork
[01:00] <RAOF> macogw: So what's wrong with rhythmbox?
[01:00] <RAOF> Which does both of those things :)
[01:01]  * macogw goes to look at rhythmbox for the first time since dapper
[01:02] <RAOF> macogw: Since rhythmbox is Gnome default, that's what you'll need to be positioning exaile against, at least initially.
[01:03] <macogw> ok rhythmbox has improved
[01:03] <RAOF> _Yes_
[01:03] <macogw> id have to see if exaile works on fresh iPods then
[01:03] <macogw> rhythmbox doesnt
[01:03] <macogw> if the db has been set up already, rhythmbox supposedly can sync iPods
[01:04] <macogw> when i plugged in my brother's brand new one that didnt have the db set up yet though, amarok was needed for the initial db creation
[01:05] <RAOF> Yeah, I've always used banshee for my ipod syncing.
[01:05] <mphill> if i upgrade will i break my X?  It wants to remove xclock, etc...
[01:06] <RAOF> mphill: Probably not.  xclock etc are now in x11-utils, or whatever it's called.
[01:06] <macogw> it *transferred* music to the iPod, and you could see the music if you looked with Rhythmbox later, but the iPod didn't show any music anywhere
[01:06] <RAOF> Ah, yeah.  No DB for you!
[01:07] <hydrogen> well
[01:08] <hydrogen> thats probably because
[01:08] <hydrogen> it was one of the new ipods
[01:08] <hydrogen> which apple decided to break
[01:08] <macogw> hydrogen: not new, new
[01:09] <macogw> it was in june
[01:09] <macogw> amarok worked fine, rhythmbox failed
[01:25] <macogw> RAOF: you're right, rhythmbox is now much nicer than it was in 2006, and its way of handing DAAP beats exaile.  not sure about iPods though.  i dont have one to test out exaile with
[01:28] <macogw> RAOF: correction, equal on DAAP.  so its just ipods
[01:29] <RAOF> macogw: Which makes the argument for exaile a little weak :)
[01:30] <macogw> yeah, unless it handles ipods properly
[01:30] <macogw> i usually remove rhythmbox as soon as i install because last time i tried it was when dapper came out, and it sucked
[01:31] <RAOF> It now rocks.  And like the rest of (the proper) gtk+ apps, it supports find-as-you-type.
[01:34] <Hobbsee> woot
[01:34]  * Hobbsee likes that about the gnome stuff
[01:35] <RAOF> It's one of the big things I miss on windows.
[01:35] <RAOF> That and the file dialogs :)
[01:44] <macogw> RAOF: huh?
[01:45] <RAOF> macogw: When the library list has focus, start typing a song name.  When the artist browser has focus, start typing an artist name, etc.
[01:45] <macogw> i meant the file dialogs in windows
[01:45] <macogw> what about them?
[01:46] <RAOF> I miss the GTK file dialogs on windows.
[01:46] <RAOF> And the find-as
[01:46] <macogw> how did they differ?
[01:46] <RAOF> -you-type.
[01:46] <RAOF> macogw: Well, the windows file dialogs aren't gtk file dialogs :)
[01:46] <macogw> ok...what was nice about windows' file dialogs?
[01:47] <RAOF> Um.  No.  I like the gtk ones better.  I don't like the windows ones, when I'm forced to use windows :)
[01:47] <macogw> oooo ok
[01:48] <macogw> i read "I miss the GTK file dialogs on windows." as you missing windows' version of the gtk+ dialogs...like gtk apps use different dialogs on windows than on linux
[01:49] <RAOF> Ah.  I miss the GTK file dialogs _when I use_ windows :)
[01:50] <macogw> gotcha
[01:50] <macogw> i miss "set above" and virtual desktops when i use windows
[01:50] <RAOF> That too.
[01:50] <macogw> "set above" is actually more useful than virtual desktops, i think
[01:51] <Hobbsee> waht's set above?
[01:51] <macogw> Hobbsee: you can make a window stay on top even when the one behind it has focus
[01:51] <RAOF> It depends on what I'm doing.  I'll generally have a desktop for each hacking project I'm working on currently, and one for email/im/irc/etc.
[01:51] <Hobbsee> macogw: ah, right, yes.
[01:51] <macogw> i would find it useful if i could read the directions from outlook while working in a maximized firefox
[01:52] <Hobbsee> indeed
[01:52] <RAOF> Or have an on-top IM window while googling for instructions, or...
[02:40] <homerhomer> I wish Hardy would have some nice video chat with Pidgin, especially since most new laptops have a camera built in now
[02:41] <Hobbsee> feel free to contribute patches to pidgin
[02:41] <Hobbsee> or tell the pidgin devs that.
[02:42] <homerhomer> I have to figure out a way to help out
[02:43] <homerhomer> I hate to say it but, I bet the pidgin devs could get a quit a bit of donations if they setup a plan
[02:43] <Hobbsee> go talk to them about it, i suspect they're not in this room :)
[02:43] <Hobbsee> bottom of http://www.pidgin.im/about/ looks interesting
[02:44] <homerhomer> there is a pidgin room and the the title reads "Pidgin does NOT support voice or video"
[02:44] <homerhomer> :(
[02:44] <homerhomer> isn't there a donation website for things like this?
[02:47] <Hobbsee> well, find out why they dont support them
[02:47] <Hobbsee> you can donate to ubuntu itself, if you wish
[02:47] <Hobbsee> but that's not pidgin directly
[02:53] <RAOF> You could also see if Telepathy (and the Empathy frontend) does what you want, too.
[02:53] <RAOF> That currently has some sort of voice+video support.
[02:55] <RAOF> It's under consideration for inclusion in Gnome 2.22, and so we may end up shipping it by default instead of pidgin.  Possibly.
[03:44] <tim> hi
[03:44] <tim> who is on duty today?
[03:45] <cowbud> duty?
[03:45] <cowbud> hrmm
[03:47] <tim> are u on duty ?
[03:50] <Hobbsee> duty for what/
[03:54] <tim> duty to talk and promote OPEN source ?
[03:54] <tim> can u talk open source ?
[03:55] <Toma-> ...
[03:55] <Toma-> i think youre looking for #ubuntu-offtopic
[04:19] <derekS> Toma-: you are here too :)
[04:19] <Toma-> Indeedy
[04:19] <derekS> :)
[04:20] <tim> Toms = female
[04:20] <tim> !females exist on the interent !
[04:21] <tim> females exist on linux
[07:02] <rockets> Are there actually hardy nightlies yet?
[07:02] <Hobbsee> no
[07:03] <cowbud> RARR
[07:06] <rockets> so why does the topic say DONT RUN HARDY
[07:06] <rockets> how can i run hardy without an iso
[07:06] <Tomcat_> If you know how to access the repos, I guess you can somehow run it. :)
[07:07] <rockets> aha so you can dist-upgrade to it
[07:07] <rockets> that sounds like a super-bad idea
[07:07] <rockets> haha
[07:10] <Hobbsee> rockets: that would fall into the last block of questions in the topic.
[07:12] <rockets> i just wanted to load it up in vmware
[07:14]  * scizzo- thinks about the use of term "development" in this discussion
[07:15] <rockets> god amn it
[07:15] <rockets> im not saying i want to do it in production
[13:33] <Grumpy> Hello ;) im unsing the pre alpha of ubuntu hardy. my xorg is still broken if i want to dist-upgrade. so wath can i so?
[13:33] <Grumpy> so = do
[13:33] <Toma-> you can read the topic :)
[13:33] <compwiz18> or you can sudo apt-get install xorg
[13:34] <compwiz18> ^^^ worked for me (c)
[13:34] <Grumpy> it dont help ^^
[13:36]  * compwiz18 points at topic...
[13:37] <Grumpy> Toma-: listen till the pre alpha of feisty im using ALWAYS Unstable things og ubuntu. and now i just need help how to fix that problem.
[13:43] <Hobbsee> Grumpy: if you need to ask for help, you probably don't want to be running it.
[13:44] <Grumpy> i dont know way you wont understand it. i know that this is unstable. i just need help. If you cant help me just shut up!
[13:46] <roe> Grumpy, you need to be much more descriptive about your problem, "xorg is broken" is so far from helpful it brings into question your ability to manipulate gnu/linux in any competent way
[13:46] <roe> thus prompting snide remarks from this channel
[13:49] <Hobbsee> haha
[13:49] <scizzo-> Hobbsee: did you use your jedi force again?
[13:49] <Hobbsee> nope!
[13:49] <scizzo-> Hobbsee: bad Hobbsee!
[13:50] <scizzo-> ;)
[13:50] <scizzo-> Hobbsee: just kidding mate
[13:51] <Hobbsee> :)
[13:52] <scizzo-> hmmm....question about the hardy development...just out of curiosity.....is there more work being done from xorg and ubuntu point of view with using dual monitors and so on? (or will be?)
[13:52] <scizzo-> I mean...if there are any plans for it...
[14:35] <derekS> hi all. i was wondering if the evo in hardy comes compiled with support for google calendars? i can't seem to get the functionality to work
[14:46] <rhalff_> hi I'm wondering whether logrotate should use 'reload' instead 'restart' for apache: http://rafb.net/p/1u0DEj34.html
[14:46] <rhalff_> If so I would like to write a ticket for this.
[14:47] <rhalff_> Because I have a passphrase protected ssl key, my apache will hang during this restart, waiting for me to input the passphrase.
[14:47] <rhalff_> with reload there would be no problem, it just reloads without any questions.
[15:10] <bardyr> a kernel update is coming before the first alpha?
[16:42] <Laser87> Hi!
[16:44] <Pici> hi?
[19:39] <desrt> anyone having their hardy X server crash on intel?
[19:50] <jussio1> desrt: /topic ...
[19:50] <desrt> home of X breakage, eh? :)
[19:51] <desrt> argggggh
[19:51] <desrt> apt-get dist-upgrade + updatedb + trackerd = my laptop is dead
[19:52] <jussio1> desrt: sigh... why are you using hardy so early?
[19:52] <desrt> sometimes i wonder :)
[19:53] <jussio1> desrt: I wouldnt use hardy at least until the first milestone comes out, and even then its going to break...
[19:53] <desrt> this much i understand
[19:53] <desrt> but at the same time gutsy is a mess and i want to fix some of that
[19:55] <jussio1> desrt: you are not going to fix anything by running hardy so early - run it virtualised maybe...
[19:56]  * desrt has different ideas :)
[20:00] <desrt> are ati/nvidia affected by this X brokenness as well?
[20:00]  * desrt just switched from intel to i810 driver and everything seems to be peachy
[23:09] <mirak> hi
[23:34] <javaJake> Is there a list somewhere that tells me what kernel options Ubuntu uses by default?
[23:36] <RAOF>  /boot/2.6.22-14-generic.config?
[23:36] <RAOF> You can also grab them from the running kernel - it's somewhere under /proc.
[23:36] <RAOF> Or possibly /sys
[23:37] <javaJake> Thanks
[23:37] <javaJake> Augh
[23:37] <javaJake> That's the answer I was looking for. :P
[23:41] <RAOF> crimsun: Oh, yeah!  pulseaudio 0.9.7 fixes my annoying volume-locked-at-100% problem!
[23:42] <Tomcat_> RAOF: PulseAudio default in Ubuntu already?
[23:42] <RAOF> No.
[23:42] <Tomcat_> :-|
[23:42] <RAOF> But it's been installable for ages, and I've been using it on and off since Feisty
[23:47] <javaJake> RAOF, what does "=m" mean? Manual? Off?
[23:47] <javaJake> Can that be turned on at boot?
[23:47] <RAOF> module
[23:48] <RAOF> Almost everything will be built as a module.
[23:48] <javaJake> I need certain modules to be loaded at boot in order to read my firewire drive, where everything is installed. :/
[23:49] <javaJake> RAOF, oh, forgot, this isn't Hardy Heron, but I figured someone knowledgeable would be here.
[23:49] <javaJake> However, since it is OT, can I PM you with questions?
[23:49] <RAOF> You want to add those modules to your initrd, then.  I'm not sure how to do that, though.
[23:49] <RAOF> I'll not be much use in PM :)
[23:50] <RAOF> You might want to look at the update-initramfs scripts.
[23:50] <javaJake> OK
[23:51] <javaJake> This is in a LiveCD, btw
[23:51] <javaJake> So... not sure if I can reconfigure another installation's initrd. :P
[23:51] <RAOF> By running update-initramfs -u
[23:53] <javaJake> OK, sicne i'll be modifying some kernel options, I bet I'll need to recompile too, right? :/
[23:53] <RAOF> No.
[23:53] <javaJake> Oh
[23:54] <RAOF> You're not modifying kernel options, you're adding some modules to the ramdisk that's loaded first in the boot process
[23:54] <RAOF> By adding the firewire (ieee1349 or something) modules there, your kernel will be able to mount the firewire drive as / and move on from there.
[23:55] <javaJake> OK
[23:55] <javaJake> So, I merely change those to Y, tell update-initramfs "here's the configuration, here's where to store" or whatever, and we're all happy? :P
[23:56] <RAOF> No.  You're not touching the kernel config file.  You want to work out where update-initramfs determines what modules to add to the initrd, and then add the modules you need to that list.
[23:57] <javaJake> OK
[23:57] <javaJake> Well, I'll go and discover that said file
[23:58] <RAOF> Oh.
[23:58] <RAOF>  /etc/initramfs-tools/modules :)
[23:59] <javaJake> Thanks!
[23:59] <javaJake> Woo!