[00:00] <javaJake> I just need to figure out which kernel options mean which modules
[00:01] <RAOF> You'll be wanting the ieee1394 modules, or somesuch.
[00:01] <javaJake> Yes
[00:01] <javaJake> CONFIG_SCSI=y CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD=y CONFIG_CHR_DEV_SG=y CONFIG_IEEE1394=y IEEE1394_SBP2=why
[00:01] <RAOF> If your firewire drive is mounted now, run lsmod | grep ieee to get some sort of list. :)
[00:01] <javaJake> All are set to =m
[00:02] <javaJake> Mmm, yes yes
[00:02] <javaJake> I got three modules...
[00:02] <RAOF> I'd guess sbp2, ohci1394, ieee1394 at least.
[00:02] <javaJake> Yes
[00:03] <javaJake> OK, so...
[00:03] <javaJake> I'm finding that ohc and sbp2 have their own modules
[00:03] <javaJake> Do I just "hey whatever, include them"?
[00:05] <javaJake> They all come down to five to seven modules: sbp2, scsi_mod, sg, sd_mod, ieee1394, ohci1394
[00:05] <javaJake> I think I'll just drop them all into the modules file
[00:05] <RAOF> Won't hurt.
[00:06] <javaJake> OK, cool!
[00:09] <javaJake> I have only one concern at this point. When I run update-initthingy I don't want it to use the LiveCD version, since it is probably tailored to the needs of a LiveCD session
[00:10] <javaJake> I want it to understand that it needs to generate initrd for a mounted disk, not the LiveCD
[00:11] <javaJake> update-initramfs -k asks for version number, but that isn't a path necessarily.... is it? Well, guess it won't hurt to try, since it should say if it doesn't like the "version".
[00:11] <RAOF> Indeed.
[00:13] <javaJake> Sugar
[00:13] <javaJake> Forgot the -k bit. XD
[00:13] <RAOF> Eh, won't be hurting anything.
[00:13] <javaJake> Now it's generating a /boot version
[00:13] <javaJake> Yea, I know
[00:13] <javaJake> Just hope the swap for LiveCD holds up...
[00:14] <javaJake> 1044M free. *Whew*
[00:14] <RAOF> :)
[00:15] <javaJake> By George, this takes far too long.
[00:15]  * javaJake is tempted to hit Ctrl+C
[00:15] <javaJake> "cannot touch `/boot/initrd.img-/media/disk/boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-powerpc'"
[00:15] <javaJake> Didn't work. :)
[00:16] <javaJake> So, at this point, I have an installation that only needs a new initrd.img file and it goes. And yet, the utility won't let me generate one
[00:16] <javaJake> RAOF, what if I copied the configuration from the installed version into the LiveCD, generated a version, and copied it back?
[00:17] <javaJake> Is there anyhting outside of /etc/initsomething that it'll need?
[00:19] <RAOF> Hm.
[00:19] <RAOF> You could mount the target /boot on the livecd?
[00:20] <javaJake> Possibly
[00:21] <javaJake> However, that would mean overriding the /boot currently in use
[00:21] <RAOF> Yup.
[00:21] <javaJake> Is that possible?
[00:21] <RAOF> Any problem there?
[00:21] <javaJake> Isn't it going to be "busy"?
[00:21] <RAOF> No.
[00:22] <javaJake> Oh
[00:22] <RAOF> Well, probably not.  /boot isn't going to be a separate partition.  Just mount your real /boot on /boot :)
[00:22] <javaJake> However
[00:23] <javaJake>  /boot contains things
[00:23] <javaJake> And /boot is mounted under /
[00:23] <javaJake> :P
[00:23] <javaJake> Do I just go mad with rm? :D
[00:23] <RAOF> sudo rm -r /boot && sudo mkdir /boot
[00:23] <javaJake> *brrr* If you say so...
[00:23] <javaJake> What could go wrong, r-right? *gulp* ;)
[00:24] <RAOF> Although you could just mount on /boot anyway.  It'll only hide the underlying files.
[00:24] <RAOF> There's no reason you can't mount something on a non-empty directory.
[00:24] <javaJake> OK
[00:28] <javaJake> I just dumped the whole mount thing and symlinked to /media/disk/boot :P
[00:29] <javaJake> OK, so /boot is there, now I need /etc/initrd stuff... *copies furiously*
[00:31] <javaJake> So, /etc/initrd and /boot both match my install. is there anything else initrd might take a fancy too?
[00:37] <javaJake> Guess not...
[00:37] <javaJake> Besides the kernel I can't think of anything else
[00:41] <RAOF> Nah
[00:41] <javaJake> OK
[00:41] <javaJake> Updating
[00:41] <javaJake> Adding all sorts of modules
[00:42]  * javaJake loves good ol' reliable Mr. -v
[00:42] <RAOF> :)
[00:43] <javaJake> Done
[00:43] <javaJake> So
[00:44] <javaJake>  /boot goes back to its spot I assume
[00:45] <javaJake> OK, done
[00:45] <javaJake> (I backed up the original boot for good measure)
[01:19] <javaJake> Ladies and gentlemen, if this works, I'll be writing a HOWTO-Boot-Mac-Off-Firewire-Easily HOWTO. :P
[01:30] <RAOF> :)
[01:45] <javaJake> MAC-PARTS: LOAD (noninterposed) not supportedload-size=0 adler32=1 \n LOAD-SIZE is too small
[01:45] <javaJake> :P
[01:46] <javaJake> Something didn't boot right
[01:50] <javaJake> *sigh*
[01:50] <javaJake> This will have to wait until another day
[01:50] <javaJake> Thanks for the help, bye everyone
[06:31] <crimsun> RAOF: :)
[06:32] <RAOF> Although the master volume doesn't persist across sessions.
[06:33] <crimsun> hmm.  I'll have to look at that over Thanksgiving.  No time now, though.
[09:08] <pwnguin> so i just upgraded, and got a wierd nvidia error
[09:09] <pwnguin> nvidia appeared to crash, then the failsafe crashed
[09:11] <scizzo-> pwnguin: usually helps more to get the exact error you are getting....
[09:12] <pwnguin> failsafe said it couldnt find get-edid
[09:13] <scizzo-> nice...have no idea why that happens...
[09:13] <pwnguin> i cant seem to find that error though
[09:14] <scizzo-> pwnguin: maybe check in the logfile
[09:14] <pwnguin> i checked in a few
[09:14] <scizzo-> but as you may know.....the hardy state is _unstable_
[09:15] <pwnguin> yes yes
[09:15] <pwnguin> i just thought it was strange that it would error on a package not being installed
[09:16] <scizzo-> well not sure what is going on there
[09:16] <pwnguin> where does the failsafe mode log to?
[09:22] <scizzo-> pwnguin: best is to check the /var/log/ files
[09:23] <pwnguin> i am
[09:23] <pwnguin> i only see two from today
[09:25] <pwnguin> -rw-r--r-- 1 root   root  39627 2007-11-20 02:48 Xorg.0.log
[09:25] <pwnguin> -rw-r--r-- 1 root   root  15643 2007-11-20 02:47 Xorg.0.log.old
[09:26] <pwnguin> .old has a nvidia crash
[09:26] <pwnguin> the other one is from the current (working) session
[09:34] <pwnguin> well, the root cause is nvidia-glx not being installed
[09:35] <pwnguin> but its also clear read-edid needs to be a depenency somewhere
[09:37] <emanuelez> when i use netstat -n the ip addresses i get are truncated... something like ::ffff:83.95.179.:63743
[09:48] <scizzo-> emanuelez: looks like the IPv6 adress
[09:48] <emanuelez> yeah
[09:48] <emanuelez> but still a truncated one
[09:49] <scizzo-> what happens if you use netstat -ntpa?
[09:55] <emanuelez> still truncated, like this one: ::ffff:208.70.29.:47904
[09:55] <pwnguin>  fe80::218:deff:fe06:8419/64
[10:15] <scizzo-> thats really cool
[10:15] <pwnguin> ?
[10:18] <pwnguin> nvidia-glx: Depends: xserver-xorg-core (>= 1:0.99.0-1) but it is not going to be installed
[10:18] <pwnguin> xserver-xorg-core: Installed: 2:1.4.1~git20071105-1ubuntu3
[10:18] <pwnguin> wth?
[10:26] <scizzo-> pwnguin: tried nvidia-glx-new or something simular?
[10:26] <pwnguin> yea
[10:26] <pwnguin> ok
[10:26] <pwnguin> have you seen people with this "authentication failed" bug?
[10:27] <pwnguin> gdm is going nuts
[10:27] <pwnguin> i get the same error for nvigia-glx-new
[10:29] <xst_> Has the ubuntu developers stopped looking at the bugtracker in launchpad? I am wondering why even serious bugs are kept unreplied. E.g. bug #162378 and #162889. Also quite a lot of laptops seems to have problems with brightness adjustments in gutsy, but this isn't fixed either. Is it completely waste of time to report the bugs or are they indeed considered?
[10:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162378 in ubuntu "Gutsy/Kubuntu: Display Settings > Apply button disabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162378
[10:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162889 in ubuntu "X crashes upon screen saver configuration" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162889
[10:30] <pwnguin> of course they havent stopped looking
[10:31] <pwnguin> they're just focused on hardy now :P
[10:31] <pwnguin> plus, i think the kubuntu people pay more attention to kde 4
[10:32] <xst_> pwnguin: Yes, that's my point. In general it seems that the developers are mostly focused on (k)ubuntu+1, leaving many bugs in the current ubuntu version unfixed. The result is a very buggy distribution.
[10:33] <pwnguin> i dont think theyve ever committed to fixing every bug in a current release
[10:34] <pwnguin> if you expect to get developer attention and fixed bugs, I can only suggest you report bugs against the development version, or pay canonical a fee
[10:36] <pwnguin> the bigger problem is that there's far more bugs being reported than people triaging them
[10:37] <pwnguin> it should be simple to get someone to confirm 162889
[10:38] <xst_> Does it make any difference if a bug has been confirmed though?
[10:38] <pwnguin> a little bit
[10:38] <pwnguin> over half of bugs reported are still "undecided"
[10:39] <pwnguin> if you think its buggy now
[10:39] <pwnguin> you should have seen it at the start of the version freeze
[10:40] <xst_> pwnguin: I mean: Of course every bug can't be fixed. Not even closed. But a broken GUI for X-config, broken brightness display adjustment in many laptops, broken Strigi K-menu link, broken screen saver configurator, broken foo and broken bar is - for me - not just sporadic bugs, it is a malfunctioning distribution.
[10:40] <xst_> Read "not even close" instead of "not even closed"... :-)
[10:41] <pwnguin> im willing to blame canonical's focus on lpia ;)
[11:02] <scizzo-> actually I belive that the discussions for hardy release is being done that is why its a bit quite on the front of gutsy now
[11:04] <pwnguin> meh
[11:04] <pwnguin> theres just too many bugs versus people hacking the code
[11:05] <pwnguin> in the grand scheme of things, a gl screensaver crashing isn't so bad
[11:05] <pwnguin> its not "critical"
[11:05] <pwnguin> its "unfortunate"
[11:07] <pwnguin> #164039 might not even be critical
[11:07] <pwnguin> bug #164039,
[11:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164039 in gdm "GDM "Authentication Failure" infinite loop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164039
[15:03] <displague> has anyone been using the latest xorg in hardy on an intel card?  My scroll speed in firefox/thunderbird/any large window has greatly suffered. 3d effects of compiz however seem normal.
[15:16] <corevette> http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html
[15:38] <Hobbsee> corevette: ?
[15:39] <Xemanth> heh i tried the latest fx3 and it broke all compatibilty backwards to my extensions
[15:39] <Xemanth> not phun
[15:39] <Xemanth> not this the newest
[15:39] <Xemanth> week ago
[15:40] <Pici> Yes, that tends to happen.
[15:41] <corevette> yes hobbsee?
[15:42] <Hobbsee> corevette: the question was "your point?"
[15:43] <corevette> hobbsee: i'm saying you should try it out?
[15:43] <Hobbsee> i'ts wokring nicely.  at least the rc3 is.
[15:56] <Xemanth> Hobbsee: what extensions do you use?
[15:57] <Hobbsee> lets see...
[15:58] <Hobbsee> adblock plus, greasemonkey, image zoom (which i can probably remove now), i was using nightly tester tools for a bit, pdf download, search keys, stop autoplay, swift tabs, user agent switcher
[15:58] <Hobbsee> Xemanth: just a few :)
[15:58]  * Hobbsee forged the extension string, to force the new extensions to work
[16:13] <Xemanth> Hobbsee: tab mix plus?
[16:14] <Hobbsee> Xemanth: i was.  i stopped
[17:06] <WorkingOnWise> are the alpha releases comparable to the herd releases of fiesty?
[17:09] <Pici> Yes.
[18:46] <pwnguin> what's a good way to reset the gdm configuration to default?
[18:46] <pwnguin> dpkg-reconfigure is slightly not good at the moment =(
[18:57] <alon> Hello all,
[18:57] <alon> I've just taken the plunge into hardy, and I'm in deep :) I've lost my fonts.. I can elaborate - is there anyone with a similar problem / solution?
[18:58] <alon> any takers?
[18:59] <pwnguin> maybe after i figure out what happened to gdm
[18:59] <alon> Are your fonts missing (actually too small)?
[19:00] <pwnguin> missing or too small?
[19:00] <alon> pwnguin: yes, that's the problem I have, and it happens for gdm, anything using glib (afaik) and qt, but not xterm for example.
[19:01] <alon> pwnguin: I tried opening another X under X (Xephyr specifically), and in it everything works ok (tried gnome-terminal, konqueror).
[19:01] <pwnguin> its probably a DPI setting
[19:01] <alon> pwnguin: So I figured it is something not related to missing fonts.
[19:01] <alon> pwnguin: I thought so too, so I tried setting it via ~/.Xresource, but it didn't help.
[19:01] <pwnguin> gnome?
[19:01] <pwnguin> hit up system0
[19:02] <pwnguin> hit up system->appearances->fonts->advanced
[19:02] <alon> pwnguin: yes, running gnome. But xdm also has this problem.
[19:02] <alon> pwnguin: I think xdm uses glib.
[19:02] <pwnguin> err
[19:02] <pwnguin> hit up system->preferenes-.appearance->fonts->details
[19:02] <alon> pwnguin: I can't actually see any fonts - so I can't really navigate 4 menues :(
[19:02] <alon> pwnguin: I just see lines. Maybe I can send you a screenshot?
[19:03] <pwnguin> donno what to say there. just wait i guess
[19:03] <pwnguin> check xorg.conf logs
[19:04] <alon> pwnguin: I understand your problem is something else?
[19:04] <pwnguin> i broke gdm pretty good i guess
[19:04] <pwnguin> worked fine, then i rebooted
[19:04] <alon> pwnguin: your playing with /etc ?
[19:04] <pwnguin> yea
[19:04] <pwnguin> that was a mistake i think
[19:05] <alon> pwnguin: if you don't try, how can you learn :)
[19:05] <pwnguin> hardy is not a learning environment :P
[19:06] <pwnguin> its a bit frustrating because without login rights i cant access the net
[19:06] <pwnguin> have to unset up network manager
[19:06] <alon> pwnguin: you know you can just login via console and do a startx, or even X & and then run whatever window manager you use.
[19:07] <alon> pwnguin: if you run X & don't forget DISPLAY=:0.0
[19:10] <pwnguin> interesting
[19:11] <pwnguin> well, that part worked
[19:11] <pwnguin> nice
[19:11] <pwnguin> now to reinstall gdm
[19:12] <pwnguin> exit
[19:13] <pwnguin> well, it seems removing and reinstalling gdm fixed whatever terrible things i had done
[19:20] <alon> pwnguin: if only it was that simple. pwnguin+1
[19:24] <pwnguin> alon: ok
[19:24] <pwnguin> alon: can you log into a VT?
[19:36] <alon> pwnguin: yes, not a problem. I just can't see the fonts..
[19:36] <alon> pwnguin: in X I mean - the console is fine. The fonts in it are fine.
[19:37] <pwnguin> check out the xorg logs
[19:39] <pwnguin> theres a font dir setting in xorg.conf that could be the problem
[19:39] <pwnguin> alon: also, try creating a new user and see if that one has trouble with fonts
[19:40] <alon> pwnguin: yeah, I think a new user could help. Also, I see enlightenment is not affected (figures - the guy wrote everything from scratch, no gtk or qt I think)
[19:41] <pwnguin> they probably dont use pango / font servers
[20:04] <bardyr> hey
[20:04] <bardyr> !info get-ecid
[20:04] <ubotu> Package get-ecid does not exist in gutsy
[20:06] <bardyr> can you search for what cmd a package provides?
[20:14] <Pici> !find get-ecid
[20:15] <ubotu> Package/file get-ecid does not exist in gutsy
[20:28] <alon> !find me
[20:28] <ubotu> Found: abiword-gnome, abiword-plugins-gnome, alacarte, app-install-data-commercial, bluez-gnome (and 1535 others)
[20:28] <alon> cool :)
[20:29] <Amaranth> uh
[20:29] <Tm_T> erm
[20:29] <Tm_T> !ubotu > alon
[20:29] <alon> anybody on the channel with missing fonts under X for all gtk and qt apps?
[20:30] <alon> Tm_T: thanks
[20:30] <Tm_T> missing fonts is <3
[20:32] <alon> not exactly missing - they are there, I just can't see them.. To be more percise: If I run {konqueror, gnome-terminal, gdm} under X running on real hardware, I get no fonts, but if I run the same (actually minus gdm - didn't check) under Xephyr, all is well.
[20:32] <Tm_T> okie
[20:32] <alon> Tm_T: from the topic "X breakage" I assumed I came to the right place...
[20:33] <Tm_T> alon: well sort of, more like it's expected
[20:33] <Tm_T> not that you would get much help of it
[20:33] <alon> Tm_T: do you know the logic behind font loading in qt and gtk (which seem to be the two affected libs)?
[20:33] <Tm_T> sort of yes
[20:34] <alon> Tm_T: lay it on me man
[20:34] <Tm_T> alon: nah :(
[20:34] <Tm_T> don't have time nor patience
[20:34] <alon> Tm_T: didn't mean to bug.
[20:35] <bardyr> !find me
[20:35] <ubotu> Found: abiword-gnome, abiword-plugins-gnome, alacarte, app-install-data-commercial, bluez-gnome (and 1535 others)
[20:35] <bardyr> :/
[20:35] <Amaranth> Stop that
[20:35] <Tm_T> alon: I know
[20:36] <Amaranth> alon: sounds like you uninstalled the fonts
[20:37] <alon> !search font
[20:37] <ubotu> Found: font, mplayer-fonts, fonts, msfonts, vncfix
[20:37] <alon> Amaranth: but under Xephyr everything is okie-dokie.
[20:38] <Amaranth> weird
[20:38] <Amaranth> alon: I guess you should maybe not use hardy
[20:38] <alon> Amaranth: besides, xterm and enlightenment are ok. No - I like breakage! I remember when I had to learn some pam.d stuff to get debian unstable to boot. That was fun!
[20:38] <alon> Amaranth: boot->login. typo.
[20:39] <Amaranth> Ok then, your fontconfig is broken
[20:39] <alon> Amaranth: The only suckiness is that the app I'm currently developing is using gtk, so I'm fucked too.
[20:39] <Amaranth> !ohmy
[20:39] <ubotu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
[20:39] <alon> Amaranth: oops!
[20:40] <alon> Amaranth: I'll try to unbreak it then. Thanks for the tip.
[20:41] <Amaranth> (that's a thing, not a configuration)
[20:41] <alon> Amaranth: so I should install a previous version?
[20:41] <Amaranth> try it
[20:41] <alon> Amaranth: trying dpkg-reconfigure.
[20:43] <alon> didn't help much. didn't restart X, maybe that will do it.
[20:43] <mirak> hi
[20:43] <alon> hi mirak
[20:43] <mirak> why are applications not separated from the Ubuntu Operating System Core in the release cycle ?
[20:44] <alon> oops - maybe I was too polite. I don't answer questions here, I ask them.
[20:44] <mirak> I mean there should be a release each year of all the core programs, the kernel and such, with security upgrades.
[20:45] <Amaranth> uh
[20:45] <Amaranth> what?
[20:45] <mirak> but I think apllications should be release each time an upstream versions major number comes out
[20:45] <mirak> Amaranth: it's incredible to see how talking about that just hurt the average linux user
[20:46] <Amaranth> mirak: I don't think you know what stable means
[20:46] <Amaranth> It doesn't mean bug free, it means not changing
[20:46] <pwnguin> mirak: the truth is that upstreams are terrible at release engineering
[20:46] <Amaranth> Ubuntu releases are stable
[20:46] <mirak> Amaranth: I don't see why we should wait 6 months to have an upgrade of an application that is not vital to the system
[20:46] <Amaranth> mirak: In that case try to get a backport
[20:47] <mirak> Amaranth: no they are not, they are less and less stable
[20:47] <Amaranth> mirak: I don't think you know what stable means
[20:47] <Amaranth> It doesn't mean bug free, it means not changing
[20:47] <mirak> Amaranth: I think backport should be the standart repository for applications
[20:47] <Amaranth> No, someone has to request the backport
[20:48] <pwnguin> mirak: its a matter of man hours
[20:48] <mirak> exept the kernel, X gdm, network manager and such things that are really needed to bot the OS
[20:48] <Amaranth> Because it's a lot of work to do a backport so it makes no sense backporting things that no one wants
[20:48] <mirak> Amaranth: you argument are not making sens
[20:48] <Amaranth> mirak: Doing a backport is not free, it takes time.
[20:48] <mirak> Amaranth: I just don't think there should be a backporting
[20:49] <Amaranth> So you want debian unstable
[20:49] <Amaranth> Bye then
[20:49] <mirak> Amaranth: no
[20:49] <Amaranth> Yes, that's what you're asking for
[20:49] <PriceChild> Ubuntu has a "Stable Release" structure...
[20:49] <mirak> Amaranth: no it's not
[20:49] <Amaranth> We do not have the manpower to do packaging for more than one release at a time so we either have our current system or Debian unstable
[20:49] <pwnguin> mirak: then you've explained it very carefully
[20:49] <PriceChild> it produces "Stable Release"s every 6 months
[20:49] <pwnguin> err
[20:49] <pwnguin> very poorly
[20:50] <Amaranth> I know what he really wants but I'm telling him what he can get
[20:50] <mirak> no I think you just don't want to hear something else that what you know
[20:50] <Amaranth> He wants 6 month or one year releases but have us work on multiple versions to put new stuff in
[20:50] <pwnguin> thats not it at all
[20:50] <mirak> Amaranth: no you didn't described corectly what I wanted
[20:50] <pwnguin> i used to run debian unstable
[20:50] <pwnguin> its exactly what you're looking for
[20:50] <mirak> Amaranth: no !!!!
[20:50] <mirak> pwnguin: no !
[20:50] <Amaranth> mirak: Then stop and explain _in detail_ what you mean
[20:51] <mirak> ok
[20:51]  * pwnguin places his bet on gimp final
[20:52] <mirak> well I think that first, the ubuntu releases are getting tried by more and more users. I think that six months release is not enough since more users means more bugs. You can disagree with that, but don't say it now, just let me finish. So I think the base release cycle seems to short.
[20:52] <mirak> That's the first point.
[20:54] <mirak> The other point is that I don't see a reason to have to wait 5 months if firefox 3 gets out just 1 months after a ubuntu release. And I think this for pidgin, thunderbird, apache, well most of applications
[20:54] <Amaranth> Except we don't do a lot of bug fixing, that's what upstream is for
[20:54] <Amaranth> So frequent releases means you get the latest stuff from upstream that is hopefully better
[20:54] <pwnguin> More users != more bugs. more users == more bugs _found_, and possibly more bugs _fixed_
[20:55] <pwnguin> and for things like firefox, it's a developers call. someone has to want to do the backport, even if it's filed
[20:55] <mirak> pwnguin: == less time to fix bugs
[20:55] <pwnguin> mirak: but more users means more community developers,
[20:55] <Amaranth> Things like firefox are core to the system
[20:55] <pwnguin> ubuntu has pushed out release candidates in anticipation of a six month lag
[20:55] <mirak> Amaranth: no they are not, or you don't know what is an operating system
[20:55] <pwnguin> hah
[20:56] <Amaranth> mirak: Hi, I'm an Ubuntu developer
[20:56] <pwnguin> they are core to the Ubuntu system
[20:56] <Amaranth> mirak: Lots of things use firefox
[20:56] <Amaranth> devhelp, epiphany, yelp, etc
[20:56] <pwnguin> yelp uses ff?
[20:56] <Amaranth> Yes, for gecko
[20:56] <mirak> Amaranth: well you can, but the fact firefox is important to ubuntu doesn't really mean it's as vital as a kernel or upstart or Xorg
[20:57] <Amaranth> mirak: It is
[20:57] <mirak> I do the distinction on the technical level here
[20:57] <Amaranth> It's infrastructure
[20:57] <mirak> Amaranth: not on a technical level
[20:57] <Amaranth> It's infrastructure
[20:57] <Amaranth> It's not just an end-user application
[20:57] <mirak> Amaranth: linux is not windows.
[20:57] <Amaranth> That was getting annoying
[21:00] <pwnguin> and the dude totally wants testing/unstable
[21:00] <Amaranth> No, he wants regular releases but with us doing extra work to package for multiple versions
[21:20] <Amaranth> wtf
[21:20] <Amaranth> He must have been banned before :P
[22:05] <theunixgeek> How do I change the Ubuntu logo to the GNOME foot in the Applications menu?
[22:11] <theunixgeek> Anyone know where I can get the official GNOME wallpaper? Demonstrated here: http://www.gnome.org/start/2.20/notes/en/
[22:12] <bardyr> theunixgeek, the gnome source tar balls?
[22:13] <theunixgeek> bardyr: good idea :) where in the tarballs would it be though
[22:14] <bardyr> under pictures ;)
[23:04]  * nickrud wants a 2 month cycle