[03:45] <troy_s> kwwii: Ping
[03:46] <troy_s> kwwii: Any chances of shaking loose some upstream guys to bloody well give us an anchor point in GDM or like areas that would allow for integrating a widescreen / standard scaling technique?
[03:46] <troy_s> kwwii: The gist of the idea being that if we had an anchor point that was the same in both standard and widescreen, we could at least be certain things would display the same.
[04:01] <troy_s> Absolute center would probably be a useful origin point?
[10:03] <karma-ferit> are we going with the tango style this time around?
[11:34] <kwwii> andreasn: ping?
[11:38] <andreasn> kwwii: pong
[11:38] <kwwii> andreasn: I played with some ideas for the panel icons... http://sinecera.de/panel_test.png and http://sinecera.de/panel_icons.png
[11:43] <karma-ferit> that looks industrial
[11:44] <kwwii> karma-ferit: how so? does it feel too un-natural to you?
[11:45] <kwwii> karma-ferit: I was trying to make it look like the icons are etched into the panel
[11:45] <karma-ferit> needs to be softened
[11:45] <karma-ferit> its like hard metal
[11:46] <andreasn> ah, kind of embossed
[11:46] <andreasn> that's nice
[11:46] <andreasn> I was really worried how things would look if say, someone changed background on the panel
[11:46] <kwwii> andreasn: yeah, that is the biggest problem with that approach
[11:46] <andreasn> kwwii: I chatted a bit to Vincent Untz this weekend on how to solve it, if we should make it a special theme or make a theme with those icons in it
[11:47] <kwwii> andreasn: cool, what came out of that discussion?
[11:47] <andreasn> he suggested we should try to fight the battle upstream first and have all applications that put stuff in the notification area have those icons monochrome
[11:47] <karma-ferit> basically it just doesn't feel, human or easy flowing
[11:48] <andreasn> that way application developers can fix that for us
[11:48] <kwwii> andreasn: yeah, that is probably the best way to start off
[11:48] <kwwii> karma-ferit: we might very well have to go with a simpler look due to the problem with changing the panel color that andreasn mentioned
[11:49] <karma-ferit> well monochrome might work better
[11:49] <kwwii> exactly
[11:49] <kwwii> although which color do you choose? black or white?
[11:49] <kwwii> seems like you would almost need some code to handle that no matter what you do
[11:49] <karma-ferit> plus colours are distracting, colours should be for warnings or things users should notice
[11:49] <andreasn> kwwii: scott told me he was going to lock you, mark and a few others and don't let you out till you had all the basic colors set in stone :)
[11:50] <andreasn> kwwii: I find that a very interesting approach :)
[11:50] <kwwii> andreasn: yepp, on dec 5th we will fight it out ;-)
[11:50] <kwwii> I am already getting nervous
[11:50] <andreasn> good luck
[11:50] <kwwii> thanks, I will need it
[11:51] <andreasn> karma-ferit: ah, yeah, so updates would have colors, while networkmanager wouldn't?
[11:51] <karma-ferit> unless theres a error in the connection
[11:51] <andreasn> right
[11:51] <andreasn> I guess critical battery power is also something that would be given color
[11:51] <karma-ferit> that it would
[11:51] <andreasn> I'll see if I can come up with some test mockups for this as well
[11:52] <kwwii> until now, my idea was to only use colors when certain states are reached and/or when you are currently changing something
[11:52] <karma-ferit> a user can look up notice that its in monochrome and not worry when its red plug it in
[11:52] <kwwii> exactly
[11:53] <andreasn> kwwii: ah, so the sound level would be colored if you change it?
[11:53] <karma-ferit> well sound would be nice if it changed colour when the users adjusts the sound then fades back into monochrome, thus giving the user feedback
[11:54] <kwwii> andreasn: yeah, but only when you are actually pressing the button or sliding the slider
[11:54] <kwwii> karma-ferit: exactly
[11:54] <andreasn> ah, cool
[11:54] <karma-ferit> so colour should be for feedback and warnings
[11:55] <kwwii> karma-ferit: exactly :-)
[11:55] <karma-ferit> i wonder if the tango spec can be changed for panel icons
[11:55] <andreasn> it probably could, yeah
[11:55] <karma-ferit> so you have the 16x16 to scalable then the panel icons
[11:55] <andreasn> so, yeah, it's a battle worth fight upstream
[11:56] <andreasn> time for lunch, later!
[11:56] <kwwii> andreasn: enjoy your lunch
[12:10] <karma-ferit> kwwii: have you got any other mockups?
[12:30] <elkbuntu> kwwii, im with karma-ferit on the colours... i think the etching could work but on those background colours and the darkness make it really synthetic
[12:31] <andreasn> do you have any good alternatives?
[12:32] <elkbuntu> i like the look alot... but the dark grey is really un-ubuntu
[12:33] <karma-ferit> it needs to be welcoming
[12:34] <andreasn> I guess it depends a lot on what other colors you use in combination with it
[12:34] <elkbuntu> the etching bit though, i really like. if it were on a more earthy colour it'd ... erm.. rock
[12:35] <karma-ferit> personally i would round out the icons a bit
[12:35] <karma-ferit> so they don't seem so hard/industrial
[12:38] <elkbuntu> i'd love to see the slab-like background around icons/widgety things done away with altogether and just have a nice clean panel
[12:40] <elkbuntu> although that's the web designer in me having residual hatred for how people colour form elements in web pages so there's the circle and then add in radio buttons which have the horrific out-of-place slab of colour around them
[12:40] <elkbuntu> s/so there's the circle//
[12:45] <kwwii> karma-ferit: yepp, but nothing finished yet
[12:46] <kwwii> I think that the most important thing to have in mind when viewing the artwork is that we purposely want to change things
[12:46] <karma-ferit> http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=panelnet1in0.png kinda rounded like this
[12:48] <karma-ferit> course this is just rough, enough to get an idea across
[12:50] <kwwii> I get the point though...good idea
[13:16] <andreasn> kwwii: congrats on RC1 btw
[13:17] <nysosym> rc1 of what?
[13:17] <nysosym> kde?
[13:19] <andreasn> yes, kde4
[13:21] <nysosym> Well, i love the new wallpapers, hope to see something like that in ubunut too :D
[13:28] <kwwii> andreasn: yeah, good to see that they finally pushed it out :-)
[13:29] <kwwii> nysosym: I would like to see something like that for ubuntu as well..but due to cd size we probably cannot include so many pics
[13:30] <nysosym> well, we should kick out ekiga instead of good wallpapers ^^
[13:36] <kwwii> in any case we can make an installable package
[13:38] <andreasn> nysosym: :)
[13:39]  * nysosym loads the kde 4 rc1 live cd :D
[13:39] <andreasn> I guess part of it could be solved with the rss-feed thing for the background capplet (if we can fix that for 2.22)
[13:40] <nysosym> get wallpapers with rss? O.o
[13:40] <andreasn> yeah, arc has been planning on doing that. hold on, I'll see if I can find some mockups
[13:41] <andreasn> http://www.gnome.org/~clarkbw/designs/background-channels/
[13:41] <andreasn> so ideally you could subscribe to flickr streams and stuff like that
[13:42] <nysosym> wow, very good idea :)
[13:42] <andreasn> it could be neat, yeah
[13:42] <andreasn> speaking of good ideas: http://www.songza.com/
[13:43] <andreasn> kwwii: it's from aza and the other humanized dudes at UDS
[13:43] <kwwii> hehe, cool
[13:44] <nysosym> how nice is that O.o
[13:44] <kwwii> very nice
[13:44] <nysosym> sure :)
[13:45] <nysosym> andreasn: thx for sharing the link :)
[14:30] <nothlit> webilder does webshots and flickr tag cycling already
[14:31] <nysosym> re
[14:31] <nysosym> wow kde 4 looks but
[14:31] <nysosym> but needs also a lo of work
[14:33] <nysosym> and i think the default theme has too less contrast
[14:34] <nysosym> but the green color theme looks truly amazing :)
[14:34] <nysosym> looks like a part of scotland :D
[14:35] <nysosym> anyway keep up the good work :)
[21:59] <Cimi> kwwii, any mpckup?
[21:59] <Cimi> *mockup?
[23:07] <kwwii> Cimi: I'll have a few different ideas together tomorrow, working on the last/best one now
[23:11] <Cimi> kwwii, could you send me them in email pls?
[23:20] <kwwii> Cimi: yepp, expect something either really late tonight or midday tomorrow :-)
[23:22] <Cimi> kwwii, I would like to have a pre-release to see if it is possible or If I must start working on changes on the engine
[23:23] <kwwii> Cimi: yeah, I think it is really important that I show you this stuff as some of it is probably crazy ideas which could never happen
[23:24] <kwwii> I am trying to draw something completely different
[23:24] <kwwii> but many of the things in Murrine I think could fit to some extent
[23:25] <Cimi> kwwii, actually murrine can customize the gradient of the buttons trough the gtkrc ;)
[23:25] <hbons> made this mockup, what do you think? :)
[23:25] <hbons> http://hagen.let.rug.nl/s1547615/ubuntu/border.png
[23:29] <kwwii> hbons: I am not too big on that perspective for the folders, personally
[23:29] <kwwii> and the windows are a bit too rounded :-)
[23:29] <hbons> kwwii: the folders are just to fill the space
[23:29] <kwwii> all in all it is somewhat close to some of the ideas I have been making
[23:30] <karma-ferit> my issue is that you're using the dominate colour for both the text and border
[23:30] <hbons> kwwii: cool, got someting to show?:)
[23:31] <hbons> karma-ferit: yeah, the border should be lighter
[23:32] <kwwii> hbons: still working on it, sometime soon though
[23:32] <hbons> ok
[23:40] <Cimi> kwwii, email pls :)