[07:43] <dholbach> good morning
[13:51] <Fenario> cvd: ping
[13:51] <dholbach> Fenario: wrong channel
[13:51] <dholbach> :)
[13:52] <Fenario> dholbach: thank you!!!! not enough coffee :-)
[13:52]  * dholbach prepares some more tea
[15:00] <guardian> hello
[15:52] <agoliveira> Dos anyone have a N800 handy?
[15:52] <agoliveira> s/Dos/Does
[16:15] <ian_brasil> i can get hold of one
[16:17] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: I just want to know if claws 3.10 is already on it or if one has to download and install.
[16:17] <ian_brasil> ok i will have a look
[16:18] <agoliveira> Thanks
[16:26] <ian_brasil> the default on the device is osso-email of which the UI and engine are all GPL ..claws meeds to be installed from http://www.claws-mail.org/maemo/ using the one click installer
[16:27] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: That makes sense. I'll try it on my 770. Thanks.
[16:27] <ian_brasil> no problem
[17:03] <lool> Meeting?
[17:03] <Don_Johnson> I'm here, but I have not heard from anyone else yet
[17:04] <smagoun> ...
[17:04] <tonyespy> ...
[17:04] <bfiller> where is davidm?
[17:04] <garyl> [:) 
[17:05] <agoliveira> Yep
[17:05] <kyleN> I just pinged him in another chat room
[17:05] <Sciri> ...
[17:05] <ChickenCutlass> :)
[17:05] <lool> Me too; let's flood ping him
[17:05] <agoliveira> Weird, I was chating with him 5 min ago...
[17:06] <kyleN> he must be sleepy thinking about all the thanksgiving food he'll be eating tomorrow
[17:07] <agoliveira> ... and people say that we down here have too much holidays...
[17:07] <agoliveira> s/much/many
[17:07] <smagoun> agoliveira: have you ever been to rio/salvador/etc for new years or carnaval???
[17:07] <Sciri> sudo ping -f davidm
[17:08] <kyleN> Sciri: lol
[17:08] <lool> agoliveira: You can't possibly compete with France on the topic of holidays; we virtually never work
[17:08] <bfiller> someone want to call him on his cell?
[17:08] <agoliveira> smagoun: My family is from there so I have a very good idea :) but down here we don't have carnaval
[17:08] <lool> bfiller: You have it?
[17:08] <agoliveira> Someone on US preferably?
[17:09] <bfiller> yes, I'll call him
[17:09] <lool> bfiller: Would be nice if someone from the US did :)
[17:09] <smagoun> lool: aren't you on strike this month?
[17:09] <smagoun> (you = france)
[17:09] <Don_Johnson> I have his number, I'll try calling
[17:10] <lool> smagoun: It was hard to claim I can't go to work due to strike of the public transportation, but I could have tried entering a strike process myself indeed
[17:10] <bfiller> leaving voice mail right now on cell
[17:10] <bfiller> I'll try home..
[17:10] <lool> Shall we proceed in discussing the actions points nevertheless?
[17:10] <Sciri> Maybe davidm ran out of coffee...
[17:11] <bfiller> he's joining now..
[17:12] <davidm> I'm here sorry
[17:12] <davidm> #startmeeting
[17:12] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:12. The chair is davidm.
[17:12] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:12] <kyleN> taking care of your turkeys? ;)
[17:12] <davidm> Side tracked was off line tringto get online again
[17:13] <davidm> OK, first item is:
[17:13] <davidm> [topic] bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop.
[17:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop. 
[17:14] <bfiller> don't have much progress to report here as I haven't had the time this week to work on it..
[17:14] <bfiller> can we carry over until next week?
[17:14] <davidm> Yes
[17:14] <davidm> [action] carry over  bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop.
[17:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over  bfiller to for looking into a better solution for a banner to be hidden or shown in hildon-desktop. 
[17:14] <davidm> [topic] continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week.
[17:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week. 
[17:14] <bspencer> didn't do it
[17:15] <davidm> carry over again?
[17:15] <bspencer> :-\  sorry. unfortunately please carry over
[17:15] <davidm> NP
[17:15] <davidm> [action] continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week.
[17:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  continue to hold open: bspencer & horaceli to verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. for next week. 
[17:15] <davidm> [topic] Don_Johnson to investigate USB client use case and how to export ext3 filesystems to windows use case.
[17:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Don_Johnson to investigate USB client use case and how to export ext3 filesystems to windows use case. 
[17:15] <Don_Johnson> Some information, thanks to Bob and Rob, pushing a discussion. I'll try to summarize.
[17:16] <Don_Johnson> The use case in question was access to ext3 filesystems from windows systems, as I recall.
[17:17] <Don_Johnson> In this case, the PRD use case, and this seems to be confirmed by the email discussions is to use RNDIS and TCPIP to export these file systems.
[17:18] <bspencer> Don_Johnson: correct -- we have agap we are trying to close between the USB client w/FAT and our ext2/ext3 filesystem
[17:18] <lool> (What's PRD?)
[17:18] <Don_Johnson> The PRD use case says that on the MID select filesystems to be exported.  Then when the MID connects, it move to RNDIS mode.
[17:18] <Don_Johnson> PRD: Prodcut Requirements Document
[17:18] <lool> (Thanks)
[17:18] <bspencer> lool:  good question     What is that Don_Johnson  :)
[17:19] <bspencer> lool:  our marketing group created a requirements document long ago that we refer to internally
[17:19] <kyleN> is Intel providing the MID side software to select the MID folder to expose?
[17:19]  * lool discovers RNDIS as we talk
[17:19] <lool> bspencer: Ok; thanks for clarifying to me
[17:19] <smagoun> kyleN: folders should be exposed automatically, users shouldn't have to configure the MID
[17:19] <smagoun> The PRD might not say that, but it's wrong :)
[17:20] <bspencer> kyleN:  my understanding ( Don_Johnson can correct ) is that Intel is providing the USB client solution.  Users should be able to plug the MID into the PC and see a new drive (similiar to any mass storage device)
[17:20]  * agoliveira is scared about marketing writing documents that engineers have to follow after
[17:20] <davidm> So are we thinking SAMBA in conjunction with RNDIS to export ext3?
[17:20] <bspencer> agoliveira: welcome to the corporate world
[17:20] <agoliveira> bspencer: Why do you think I ran aways from it? :)
[17:21] <Don_Johnson> Samba is mentioned in this context.  I don't know enough about Samba to give an opinion on how this works
[17:21] <lool> Don_Johnson: Who decides to expose data as RNDIS + samba or USB mass storage?
[17:21] <davidm> Correct me if I'm wrong but is not RNDIS TCP/IP over USB?
[17:22] <bspencer> jacob_p:  ping
[17:22] <Don_Johnson> That is my understanding, that RNDIS is TCP/IP
[17:22] <jacob_p> bspencer, pong
[17:22] <smagoun> davidm: yes
[17:22] <davidm> So then we need to have SAMBA running to export a windows share or shares then? Is that the thought?
[17:23] <bspencer> jacob_p: = jacob_pan ?  Have you helped on USB client work?  Or is that someone else?
[17:23] <agoliveira> davidm: In theory you can use over any network device but usually it's over USB, yes.
[17:23] <jacob_p> bspencer, not me. it is a team in beijing doing the development work. Alek is doing the integration
[17:23] <agoliveira> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/NDIS/rmNDIS.mspx
[17:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/NDIS/rmNDIS.mspx 
[17:23] <patm> Dumb question, has anyone here ever done this with a USB connection, and does it just work with windows
[17:24] <bspencer> patm:  you mean, has anyone plugged in the MID to a PC and seen it show up as a mass storage device?
[17:24] <patm> or any computer
[17:24] <bspencer> my iRiver is a computer?  it does this
[17:24] <kyleN> lool's question also: what decides if MID is treated as usb mass storage or rndis + smaba
[17:24] <lool> I know there's "usbnet" which should be capable of interconnecting linux hosts, but I don't know whether it's actually rndis compatible
[17:24] <davidm> Don_Johnson, to summarize what I think I hear:  Intel to provide a USB Client driver that will bring up networking when connected to a Windows or Linux box, then we run samba on that interface to provide share[s] to be mounted?
[17:26] <bspencer> davidm / Don_Johnson :   We need to clarify the process and deliverables.  I don't think we've ever done that clearly
[17:26] <Don_Johnson> I can't comment on samba.  The model is that on the MID the user selects which filesystems to export. As I understand it, if filesysesm are selcected for export, it mounts itself as a network device to export them.
[17:27] <davidm> bspencer, Don_Johnson can you take an AR to clarify the process and deliverables?
[17:27] <bspencer> davidm:  yes, thanks
[17:27] <Don_Johnson> But I think we need to get more info on how this works and what the user interface is.
[17:27] <tonyespy> Don_Johnson: does a MID-user really need the capability of exposing /bin to the PC?
[17:28] <agoliveira> I'm not sure I'm confortable with "the user selects which filesystems to export" if the "user" means end user.
[17:28] <Don_Johnson> OK, I'll keep looking into it.
[17:28] <lool> Don_Johnson: So no mass storage emulation anymore?
[17:28] <bspencer> tonyespy: we are planning to export a sub-part of the filesystem
[17:28] <davidm> [action] bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables.
[17:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer & Don_Johnson to clarify the process and deliverables. 
[17:28] <bspencer> tonyespy: such as the home directory, or even more restricted -- the "media" subdirectory
[17:28] <smagoun> tonyespy: Don_Johnson there should be a predefined set of folders exposed (music, photos, video for starters). there should be no configuration.
[17:28]  * lool agrees with smagoun 
[17:28] <Don_Johnson> The model I read, said that initially it mounts as mass storage.  I believe in this case it exports VFAT.
[17:28] <bspencer> smagoun: totally agree
[17:28] <agoliveira> +1
[17:29] <tonyespy> bspencer: then my question would be...can a driver alone do this work, or does there need to be an addtl piece of MID user-software to drive?
[17:29] <davidm> yes, but the file system is ext3 so you need to provide a translator to export a vfat from ext3
[17:29] <lool> Don_Johnson: Who decides whether it's exposed as mass storage?  Where's the vfat?
[17:30] <bspencer> tonyespy:  alek as described it to me a few times, but I can't repeat his description.  Yes, something additional has to have this intelligence and where that is I'm not sure, but someone here is :)
[17:30] <Don_Johnson> I'll check I think this is an area where the expectation is that OEMs will customize the filesystems exproted.
[17:30] <bspencer> davidm: exactly, there's the rub.  
[17:30] <patm> any chance the usb client spec can be updated to explain this 
[17:30] <lool> NB: there's a rndis_host module on my hardy install
[17:30] <davidm> [action] Don_Johnson I'll check I think this is an area where the expectation is that OEMs will customize the filesystems exported.
[17:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Don_Johnson I'll check I think this is an area where the expectation is that OEMs will customize the filesystems exported. 
[17:31] <davidm> OK to summarize: filesystem = ext3 to mount on Windows must be seen as VFAT
[17:32] <davidm> two possible ways to do this: Networking and SAMBA or USB Mass Storage with some code to translate on the fly between ext3 and vfat
[17:32] <davidm> Are there other options I'm missing?
[17:33] <kyleN> that sounds right, except if rndis, does there have to be host side setup utility?
[17:33] <Don_Johnson> Customization and configuration. Who decides what filesystems are exproted.
[17:34] <davidm> Don_Johnson, true but how that might be done would depend upon which method is used to export the filesystem.
[17:34] <bfiller> Don_Johnson: (copy from smagoun ):there should be a predefined set of folders exposed (music, photos, video for starters). there should be no configuration.
[17:34] <lool> davidm: There's the option to expose the memory card, like on the N800
[17:35] <lool> I think this makes sense
[17:35] <Don_Johnson> I believe, that should be: No end user configuration.
[17:35] <davidm> Under samba it's well known but does not have a super friendly front end.  Under the USB MS with translator who knows
[17:35] <smagoun> Don_Johnson: yes. no end user configuration. It should be magic to the end user
[17:35] <bfiller> Don_Johnson: yes
[17:35] <tonyespy> davidm: to kyle's point, intel is working on the client-side driver; we need to determine if additional software on the client and/or host is required to make the solution "usable"
[17:35] <lool> There's also the option of having the /home as a vfat filesystem, but then we would have to umount it before exposing it as USB mass
[17:35] <bspencer> I think our design by committee is fun, but I would suggest that someone take the assignment to clarify all of these things so we don't do this again.
[17:35] <davidm> So can we postpone the rest of this conversation until after the action items are reported back on?
[17:36] <patm> Don_Johnson, who at Intel is implementing this feature
[17:36] <smagoun> mootbot #nexttopic
[17:36] <bspencer> patm: we cleverly split up the work across divisions 
[17:36] <patm> davidm, I want an action to update the specification for usb client
[17:36] <bspencer> and we are now working through the problem together.
[17:37] <davidm> patm, are you taking that action? Or do you want someone to take it?
[17:37] <bspencer> patm: I can take the assignment to find an owner from our side
[17:37] <patm> davidm, whoever bspencer  refers to as "we"
[17:37] <davidm> patm, got it
[17:37] <patm> bspencer, thanks
[17:38] <davidm> [action] bspencer I can take the assignment to find an owner from our side to update the USB specification.
[17:38] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer I can take the assignment to find an owner from our side to update the USB specification. 
[17:38] <bspencer> accepted
[17:38] <davidm> Are we good at this point?
[17:38] <davidm> new topic coming then
[17:38] <davidm> [topic] carry over lool to upload an updated MIC which uses the PPA /by default/ to next week.
[17:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  carry over lool to upload an updated MIC which uses the PPA /by default/ to next week. 
[17:38] <lool> I uploaded an updated and fixed MIC for hardy which pulls from hardy + hardy ppa by default; I wouldn't recommend using hardy on q1 or on touchscreen devices using the evtouch driver as it's currently a bug with no workaround; I backported this MIC for gutsy + gutsy ppa, the images work fine and I recommend using/testing it, you can use it under hardy as well instead of the hardy version
[17:39] <lool> (hope this wasn't cut)
[17:39] <davidm> lool, the last part I got was: I backported this MIC for gutsy + gutsy ppa, the images work fine and I recommend using/testing it, you can use it under hardy as well instead of the hardy version
[17:39] <lool> [Building images for hardy should fail at the moment due to gtk+2.0 not being built for lpia; I've contacted IS and they solved the issue, the buildds should finish building the queue soonish]
[17:40] <lool> davidm: That's the last part; thanks for confirming
[17:40] <davidm> Np
[17:40] <bspencer> lool:  if I ask for a package (let's say hildon-libs-l10n-engb) to be added, you will put this in hardy PPA and gutsy PPA ?   So I can get them now w/gutsy+gutsy PPA solution?
[17:41] <lool> bspencer: The first thing which we should target is hardy; when the module work in hardy, and if there's interest for it I (or someone else) can backport it wherever needed
[17:41] <lool> One obvious place would be the gutsy ppa if that's what you're basing on ATM
[17:41] <bfiller> lool: can you clarify what the hardy ppa is for then?
[17:41] <bspencer> time frame estimate for hardy being ready?
[17:41] <lool> bfiller: It has just been setup for symetry with the gutsy + gutsy ppa setup
[17:41] <lool> bspencer: define ready?
[17:42] <lool> bspencer: No major issue once?  No major issue until release?  image builds and boots, UI doesn't work?
[17:42] <bspencer> lool:  we have put some packages on moblin because we didn't know how else to get them in a working image 
[17:42] <bspencer> (such as the hildon one above)
[17:43] <davidm> bspencer, we can pull that into both ppa's
[17:43] <lool> bspencer: So I would recommend you try to put them in the development dist: hardy; that should always be your first concern IMO; if you then need to get it into stable images, then the gutsy + gutsy ppa ones seem like good stable images to me
[17:43] <bspencer> lool:  right, but we don't have the luxury of waiting for a week or month or months for a stable working image.  We need things working now.
[17:43] <davidm> but we want to make sure it does not break the gutsy ppa or it would void the purpose of a stable ppa for testing
[17:43] <lool> bspencer: You should make sure that any fixes you carry at moblin.org is in hardy and then we can work on backporting hardy stuff into gutsy ppa
[17:44] <bspencer> lool: agree, I was just looking for an ubuntu solution that was stable at all times.  I can't use hardy today, so we have things on moblin + we use gutsy
[17:44] <lool> bspencer: The gutsy images should work at the moment, but I don't think they pull from the PPA; if you need to override the current build sooner than the images pulling from the gutsy ppa, I recommend you run image builds from the gutsy + gutsy ppa yourself
[17:44] <davidm> bspencer, is the package stable in gutsy now?  If so we can put it into gutsy ppa now.
[17:44] <bspencer> but hardy is our future and we want everything there too.
[17:45] <lool> bspencer: The Ubuntu stable solution is supposed to be gutsy at the moment; if you can run image builds yourself, I recommend gutsy + gutsy ppa
[17:45] <bspencer> lool:  yes, exactly.  So can we add theese new packages to hardy + gutsy PPA now?
[17:45] <lool> (I don't know when our gutsy images will be pulling from the ppa)
[17:46] <lool> bspencer: Sure, we can always do that; as long as this doesn't render the stable images unstable :)
[17:46] <davidm> 15 minutes left
[17:46] <bspencer> lool:  yes, I see.  OK.  I'll send you an email and yo ucan take it form there
[17:46] <bspencer> davidm: done from my end
[17:46] <davidm> K
[17:46] <lool> bspencer: If you pull MIC from gutsy ppa, it will build an image from gutsy + gutsy ppa which is stable
[17:47] <lool> done here too
[17:47] <davidm> [topic] smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy.
[17:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy. 
[17:47] <smagoun> no progress - I've been working on other X problems (failure to launch with latest gutsy+ppa+moblin debs/kernel) and a couple fire drills on our end.
[17:47] <davidm> carry it over?
[17:47] <smagoun> yup
[17:47] <davidm> [action] carry over  smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy.
[17:47] <MootBot> ACTION received:  carry over  smagoun Since my group needs this, I'll take an action item to test Intel's flavor of exa on top of gutsy. 
[17:47] <davidm> [topic] StevenK to get h-i-m included in the build so KyleN_ can test
[17:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to get h-i-m included in the build so KyleN_ can test 
[17:48] <kyleN> steveK got this in today, haven't tested
[17:48] <davidm> I know that StevenK is working on this
[17:48] <lool> (Seeing smagoun is building against gutsy + ppa + *moblin*, I'm interested in hearing from fixes we should upload to Ubuntu which are currently moblin only)
[17:48] <davidm> Good, so new action is KyleN to test?
[17:48] <kyleN> yes
[17:49] <agoliveira> gutsy + ppa + *moblin* sound scary...
[17:49] <davidm> [action] kyleN to test  h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status
[17:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN to test  h-i-m and get back to StevenK on status 
[17:49] <bspencer> agoliveira: that's just because he put asterisks ** around moblin
[17:49] <agoliveira> bspencer: Even so :)
[17:49] <davidm> [topic] kyleN_ to email Kevin to understand his issues with h-i-m
[17:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN_ to email Kevin to understand his issues with h-i-m 
[17:49] <kyleN> I talked to Kevin Huang this morning about what he thinks the limits of the Hildon Input Method are. He said he is not sure  that with HIM the user can switch input method from, say Pinyin Simple Chinese to Anthy for Japanese. You can easily do this with SCIM. 
[17:50] <davidm> K so will your test from prior action cover this issue?
[17:50] <kyleN> as noted, I'll attempt to test HIM, although there's precious little info out there on how to do it
[17:50] <davidm> understood
[17:50] <kyleN> yes, prior action covers it
[17:50] <davidm> K
[17:50] <davidm> [topic] agoliveira mobile-applications spec should be updated to include two things: List of commited apps for Hardy, Analysis of "app critieria
[17:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  agoliveira mobile-applications spec should be updated to include two things: List of commited apps for Hardy, Analysis of "app critieria 
[17:51] <davidm> agoliveira is the list in the spec complete at this point?
[17:51] <lool> kyleN: FWIW, http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1189194936.html mentions "Common user interface to switch between input methods, languages and layouts."
[17:51] <kyleN> lool, thanks
[17:51] <agoliveira> Ok. I added the basic list of apps we agreed upon into the spec and included also a link to a slightly modified https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/UserApplicationCriteria
[17:52] <agoliveira> Basically: UME browser    Cheese    Claws mail    Moblin Chat    Moblin Media Player   
[17:52] <smagoun> I'm not convinced that the "complementary criteria" aren't required
[17:52] <kyleN> agoliveira, have you applied each criterion to each app and noted the analysis somewhere?
[17:52] <agoliveira> smagoun: I agreed but we simply don't have the manpower to do everything.
[17:52] <smagoun> for example, hiding the user from the filesystem - that's not a 'minimum requirement'
[17:53] <agoliveira> kyleN: Not yet. I didn't have the time.
[17:53] <smagoun> (but it should be)
[17:53] <agoliveira> smagoun: Well, we have to draw a line at some point based on the resources we have
[17:53] <patm> agoliveira,  Is the basic list of apps the complete set of committed apps?
[17:53] <agoliveira> patm: For the core, yes.
[17:54] <bspencer> wrt criteria, I took that excellent list and broke it into 3 levels:  bronze, silver, gold.  moblin plans to have a web page that lists applications and the _level_ of criteria they meet.
[17:54] <agoliveira> bspencer: Don't forget to ping me when it's done, please
[17:54] <tonyespy> what about settings applications?
[17:54] <agoliveira> tonyespy: Like configuration stuff?
[17:55] <tonyespy> agoliveira: yes
[17:55] <bspencer> agoliveira: I'll send my suggested levels to this list shortly
[17:55] <bspencer> kyleN: won't be happy because I put i18n in the "gold" level  :P
[17:55] <tonyespy> agoleira: or operational menus / apps ( eg. nm-applet )
[17:55] <agoliveira> Well, that's a good question. As I'm looking only for user level stuff, it never crossed my mind.
[17:55] <kyleN>  bspencer, I'm thrilled beyond the capability of words to express ;)
[17:56] <agoliveira> I believe that goes into the work Rob have being doing doesn't it?
[17:56] <kyleN> guess that means we need core apps to meet the gold level
[17:56] <bspencer> kyleN: absolutely.
[17:56] <davidm> agoliveira, I think so
[17:56] <bspencer> kyleN: that is true -- no sarcasm intended
[17:57] <agoliveira> Ok but are we going to take this the way it comes, no margin for discussion?
[17:57] <patm> has any more work gone into evaluating the modest based email client?
[17:58] <kyleN> ago: lets take the gold list and consider that a work order (somehow) for all core apps
[17:58] <davidm> bspencer, I'm looking forward to seeing your list
[17:58] <agoliveira> kyleN: That's my question. Let's check the list first, shall we? :)
[17:59] <agoliveira> patm: Not me, I wasn't working last week.
[17:59] <kyleN> ago: definitely
[17:59] <davidm> [action] bspencer to email  his suggested levels to this list shortly
[17:59] <MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to email  his suggested levels to this list shortly 
[17:59] <patm> agoliveira, is there a plan to do this soon? or do we need to make one?
[17:59] <lool> patm: I think StevenK discussed updating a lib or a tinymail component recently
[17:59] <davidm> patm, not yet, agoliveira on vacaion last week, tollef this week
[17:59] <agoliveira> After that we can tell what can be possibly done with the resources we have now, namely, you'rs trully.
[17:59] <bspencer> one thing I found in organizing the list was that we need examples for all of these things
[17:59] <bspencer> that is a big task
[18:00] <lool> We're at libtinymail 0.0.4
[18:00] <davidm> OK out of time and we have two items left.
[18:00] <smagoun> bspencer: I think I can help you with examples
[18:00] <bspencer> patm: davidm  is that planned?
[18:00] <agoliveira> patm: Not yet. We are commited with claws for now.
[18:00] <patm> agoliveira, may be hard to make gold :-)
[18:00] <bspencer> I would love a little investigation on tinymail
[18:01] <bspencer> agoliveira: may be hard to make bronze
[18:01] <agoliveira> patm: I'll be glad to live to see the release right now :)
[18:01] <bspencer> lol
[18:01] <davidm> patm, we are commited to the latest version of claws and to looking at libtinymail but claws works for now.
[18:01] <agoliveira> bspencer: Me too but right now I just can't promisse anything soon.
[18:01] <smagoun> s/works/is in already
[18:01] <bspencer> is in _where_ already?
[18:01] <bspencer> hardy, gutsy ppa ?
[18:02] <agoliveira> I'm about to start porting the latest claws into lpia.
[18:02] <agoliveira> bspencer: hardy but not lpia yet.
[18:02] <bspencer> so no hildon claws yet
[18:02] <bspencer> (yes I know I can build it from source on my system )
[18:03] <agoliveira> bspencer: Nope. I'm about to do that.
[18:03] <davidm> bspencer, give a couple of days and I think it will be ready?  agoliveira true?
[18:03] <bspencer> just needling you again :)  Would love to have a hildon claws in the images by default
[18:03] <agoliveira> Yep.
[18:03] <bspencer> ok
[18:03]  * bspencer writes down Friday as the date  ;)
[18:03] <davidm> can we move to the next topic?
[18:03] <agoliveira> I'm good
[18:04] <davidm> [topic] tonyespy - gnome-keyring & MID; to start or not to start...
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  tonyespy - gnome-keyring & MID; to start or not to start... 
[18:04] <agoliveira> bspencer: I guess so.
[18:04] <davidm> tonyespy, comments?
[18:04] <tonyespy> i have 2 private bugs where wifi keys & passphrases aren't remembered after..
[18:04] <tonyespy> reboot or resume
[18:05] <tonyespy> this is due to gnome-keyring not running on the MID
[18:05] <tonyespy> where should i file a bug?
[18:05] <davidm> does it work if you start the gnome-keyring?
[18:05] <patm> this is a basic design question for a system with no user login
[18:05] <tonyespy> davidm: not sure yet
[18:06] <tonyespy> i'll take an action to test
[18:06] <davidm> well it still has a user though
[18:06] <smagoun> the problem is that gnome-keyring requires a password, right?
[18:06] <tonyespy> one question is where should it be started?
[18:06] <patm> can the user understand a keyring, and should they enter a password
[18:06] <lool> tonyespy: You might want to discuss it with gnome-keyring upstream: I think gnome-keyring is relying on env vars to work ATM, but it should move to a dbus service; if you want to launch it like in a gnome session, then we need to change the start-hildon script or something
[18:06] <tonyespy> patm: that's a long term question
[18:06] <lool> tonyespy: It's not enough to "start" the process, you also have to set some env vars IIRC
[18:06] <smagoun> patm: no
[18:07] <tonyespy> lool: gotcha
[18:07] <lool> Check "env | grep KEY"
[18:07] <davidm> [action] tonyespy to test if  wifi keys & passphrases are remembered after reboot or resume if gnome-keyring is running
[18:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tonyespy to test if  wifi keys & passphrases are remembered after reboot or resume if gnome-keyring is running 
[18:07] <lool> GNOME_KEYRING_PID=6429
[18:07] <lool> GNOME_KEYRING_SOCKET=/tmp/keyring-DlI1eD/socket
[18:07] <tonyespy> lool: that can go in the hildon startup script no?
[18:07] <bspencer> > tonyespy: where should i file a bug?
[18:07] <patm> if we do not want a keyring, we need a new design for this for mobile, and someone to own it
[18:07] <lool> tonyespy: We should preferably not hardcode anything in this script
[18:07] <bspencer> a longer term topic, but how is bug management done?
[18:07] <lool> Just like we shouldn't hardcode "load the wifi modules" in an init script :)
[18:08] <bspencer> who reviews, prioritizes, assigns, follows up, closes ?
[18:08] <tonyespy> patm: long term is another question.  i'll take an action on the long-term design
[18:08] <tonyespy> patm: network-manager 0.7 is supposed to have global settings, i think this may mean no more keyring, but i'm not sure
[18:08] <bfiller> bspencer: I bellieve the bug gets filed on the appropriate project on launchpad. lool can you verify this is correct?
[18:08] <patm> tonyespy, objects in your mirror are closer than you think
[18:09] <lool> bspencer: Depends; the bug discoverer reports, a package maintainer forwards to the upstream author and a package maintainer closes the bug when it reaches the archive
[18:09] <tonyespy> patm: huh?
[18:09] <patm> what is long term, one month?
[18:09] <kyleN> patm means long term is really next week
[18:09] <davidm> K very short of time now
[18:10] <davidm> can we address last topic ?
[18:10] <davidm> [topic] smagoun - X fails to start on Crown Beach with recent images
[18:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  smagoun - X fails to start on Crown Beach with recent images 
[18:10] <lool> davidm: There are two agenda items which are more or less push-only information I guess
[18:10] <smagoun> I'm testing gutsy + gutsy ppa + moblin on crown beach. X doesn't start. Works fine w/ the moblin kernel but not the ubuntu one. Anyone else seen this/working on it?
[18:10] <smagoun> and on a related note, what's amitk's schedule between now and 1/1/08?
[18:11] <davidm> amit is on vacation at the moment
[18:12] <davidm> I think he is back next week'
[18:12] <smagoun> when does he return?
[18:12] <smagoun> thanks
[18:12] <lool> Doesn't look like it when looking at the HR portal
[18:13] <smagoun> davidm: I'm all set
[18:13] <davidm> K
[18:13] <davidm> OK, smagoun do you have any idea why X is not starting or are you investagating?
[18:14] <smagoun> investigating. Some sort of kernel problem
[18:14] <bspencer> smagoun: is this related to sound card?
[18:14] <davidm> K lets talk in email further
[18:14] <smagoun> bspencer: no.
[18:14] <bspencer> without the sound card there was a bug which caused hildon-desktop to fail on CB
[18:15] <bspencer> smagoun: oh, sorry.  I didn't see the kernal comment
[18:15] <smagoun> bspencer: it's not that, I promise. :)
[18:15] <bspencer> working fine with moblin kernel,   crashing with ubuntu kernel
[18:15] <davidm> OK I'm going to close the meeting and get the meeting minutes out shortly.
[18:15] <lool> Thanks!
[18:15] <ian_brasil> just a quick reminder...there was a lack of status updates this week...only Loic so far in my inbox...can this be sorted a.s.a.p please?
[18:16] <lool> I did all the work this week!   :-P
[18:16] <davidm> I'll also ask Amit to contact ASAP on return from vacation.
[18:16] <smagoun> thx
[18:16] <kyleN> lool: as usual
[18:16] <agoliveira> lool: You have to. All the rest of your country is on strike :)
[18:16] <davidm> #endmeeting
[18:16] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:16.
[19:07]  * agoliveira is back
[19:15] <bfiller> bspencer: ping
[19:20] <agoliveira> Claws 3.10 looks *much* better...
[19:21] <davidm> Yes it does
[19:21] <agoliveira> bfiller: Looks like Bob is running from you :)
[19:21] <davidm> agoliveira, It's better then the last version I had, that is for sure.
[19:22] <agoliveira> It's a bit odd if you're used to the regular interface but it has an interesting approach 
[19:23] <bfiller> agoliveira: damn him :)