[01:19] <defishguy> Does anyone have a suggestion for noob reading on creating packages?
[01:20] <IntuitiveNipple> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
[01:20] <mardi_soir> hello here
[01:21] <mardi_soir> i m sorry about this but on ubuntu i have no answer
[01:21] <mardi_soir> i use livecd lts
[01:21] <mardi_soir> and i d like to knoqw if
[01:21] <mardi_soir> the resize can be verry long
[01:21] <mardi_soir> (many hoaurs )
[01:22] <mardi_soir> (top say partman is active)
[01:22] <mardi_soir> syslog that my hard disk is not good
[01:22] <mardi_soir> and partpman log
[01:22] <mardi_soir> seams to be well
[01:39]  * lamont waves from home
[02:41]  * lamont debates whether UPS-install-time is now, or in the morning
[03:05] <fabbione> morning
[03:05] <fabbione> lamont: UPS?.. the sooner the better
[03:05] <StevenK> Maybe lamont is talking about installing the UPS guy he kidnapped.
[03:17] <lamont> fabbione: yeah... sucks when the power bounces
[03:17]  * fabbione hugs his 2x3KW UPS
[03:18] <fabbione> fun thing is that i did run out of power cables before power outlets and power on the UPS'es
[03:18] <fabbione> i still have some machines on their own.. but mainly laptops
[03:19] <fabbione> and a few monitors i think... that I am _hoping_ they will die soon so i have a good excuse to go and buy 3x30" Flat screens
[03:20] <lamont> fabbione: 2x2200W
[03:20] <fabbione> not bad :)
[03:20] <lamont> that's for the cabinet.  which has stuff of my wife's in front of it atm.
[03:20] <lamont> my desk area has a 1KW UPS for the WS there.
[03:21] <fabbione> i share one of the UPs for my workstation
[03:21] <lamont> and then there are a scattering of 300W UPSs for other computers, TiVo, switches, etc
[03:21] <fabbione> they are extremely silent
[03:21] <fabbione> yeah
[03:21] <fabbione> that too.. but i didn't count them :)
[03:21] <lamont> my 2200W UPS not silent.
[03:21] <lamont> nor are the servers --> utility room
[03:21] <lamont> office area is actually quiet
[03:21] <fabbione> the servers are noisy but the UPS are very silent
[03:21] <lamont> and off for family time.  bbl
[03:21] <fabbione> i heard only once spinning the fans
[03:22] <fabbione> when i almost loaded them at 80% each
[03:22] <fabbione> that was about it
[03:22] <fabbione> plus the general noise with everything powered on makes you feel deaf anyway
[03:22] <fabbione> later :)
[06:29] <pitti> Good morning
[06:31] <LaserJock> hi pitti
[07:16] <dholbach> good morning
[07:24] <IntuitiveNipple> Do we have a recommended package for netfilters/iptables boot-time configuration, possibly for the server install?
[07:25] <slangasek> no, but we have a spec for it. :-)
[07:26] <IntuitiveNipple> I wondered why I couldn't find anything! I'm just writing up an article in the forums on how to configure apache2 to do transparent proxying, and was looking for the 'recommended' way to save/load a ruleset
[07:27] <mjg59> iptables < foo in ifup.d, I suspect
[07:27] <IntuitiveNipple> Any ideas which package I should recommend to users to do this? minimal thing that loads rules at boot? firestarter et al aren't really what I had in mind but...!
[07:28] <IntuitiveNipple> mjg59: I thought of that but thought it might be a bit too hackish :)
[07:29] <mjg59> Doing it on interface up/down is probably the right thing to do
[07:29] <mjg59> Avoids the interface managing to come up before the rules are in effect
[07:29] <mjg59> I believe that's why it was removed from the init scripts
[07:30] <IntuitiveNipple> In my case the rules aren't interface-specific, but I see your point
[07:31] <slangasek> hrm, I thought the reason for removing it from the init scripts was nothing so sensible as that :)
[07:32] <mjg59>   * removed README.Debian, too confusing
[07:32] <mjg59> Promising.
[07:35] <IntuitiveNipple> I think I'll duck this one for now and just say "you need to add this rule to your preferred firewall manager" :p
[08:07] <IntuitiveNipple> For reference, if anyone else needs apache2 as a transparent caching proxy: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3816917
[08:21] <dholbach> hey seb128!
[08:22] <dholbach> hey MacSlow
[08:23] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[08:23] <MacSlow> hi dholbach
[08:28] <seb128> hello dholbach MacSlow
[08:29] <pitti> seb128: will you put the patch tagging guidelines into the wiki somewhere? what would be a good place?
[08:31] <seb128> pitti: yes, I planned to do that today
[08:32] <seb128> pitti: not sure w.u.c/PatchTaggingGuidelines? ;-)
[08:33] <pitti> I thought we would already have some existing documentation about patches, but apparently not much
[08:33] <pitti> should be linked from UbuntuDevelopent somewhere, I figure
[08:34] <seb128> pitti: yes, that's the plan
[08:34] <Keybuk> StevenK: I've renamed hardy-about-ubuntu to about-this-computer to properly match the content
[09:24] <pitti> Keybuk: eww, killall-gksudo: TBH I wasn't even aware that this was assigned to/drafted by me, and it doesn't even have a wiki page nor notes
[09:25] <pitti> Keybuk: *sigh*, seems I lied then when I said that I drafted all my specs
[09:25]  * pitti will ask desrt if he has notes
[09:25] <Keybuk> pitti: heh, it wasn't :-)
[09:26] <Keybuk> but it's as good a place as any to dump the result of the ptrace and policykit discussion which is all in your brain
[09:26] <Keybuk> I don't have any notes from the session that aren't already covered in what we've decided
[09:27] <cjwatson> mvo: I've written up apt-authentication-reliability; please review
[09:27] <mvo> thanks cjwatson
[09:28] <pitti> cjwatson: Keybuk just mentioned to me that you have some remarks about the prefetch spec; they are not in the wiki/whiteboard, are they somewhere else?
[09:29] <cjwatson> I'll fish them out of IRC backlog and insert them
[09:37] <cjwatson> pitti: I've added them to the wiki with my name attached; refactor at will
[09:37] <pitti> thanks
[09:38] <seb128> pitti: can you build retry libgnomeprintui?
[09:39] <pitti> seb128: done
[09:40] <seb128> pitti: danke
[09:44] <pitti> Keybuk: curious; how does prefetch achieve the speedup if not by reordering disk blocks?
[09:44] <seb128> pitti: can you also retry gnome-python on lpia and hppa?
[09:44] <pitti> Keybuk: i. e. without using the remapping tool?
[09:44] <pitti> seb128: done
[09:44] <seb128> danke
[09:44] <Keybuk> pitti: it has a readahead like component, where it tracks the files it needs to read and does so in advance
[09:44] <Keybuk> in fact, that's the major component
[09:44] <pitti> ah, I see
[09:44] <dholbach> 0 outstanding merges, 0 updated merges? YAY!
[09:44] <pitti> sync-source.py -f -F -a :)
[09:45] <pitti> or did someone do a major NMU sprint in Debian? :-P (you said "give back patches", and we DID! MUHAHA)
[09:46] <seb128> pitti: ftp.debian.org dns has been updated to point to ubuntu.archive.com
[09:46] <seb128> easier this way ;-)
[09:47] <seb128> archive.ubuntu.com
[09:47]  * dholbach sees 1500 MOTU applications coming up on the MC list
[09:47]  * dholbach confiscates a few crack pipes around here
[09:48]  * seb128 hugs dholbach
[09:48]  * dholbach hugs seb128 back :)
[09:49] <Keybuk> seb128: now *that'd* be a great way to leave Debian
[09:49] <Keybuk> dholbach: MoM is currently undergoing electric shock therapy
[09:49] <Keybuk> *BZZZT*
[09:50] <dholbach> just when I announced http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
[09:50] <dholbach> :-)
[09:51] <Keybuk> yeah
[09:51] <Keybuk> now's a bad time for that
[09:52] <pitti> well, the merges are still there, but the index pages are broken
[09:54] <Keybuk> pitti: I haven't sanity checked them yet
[09:54] <Keybuk> MoM was merging from experimental instead of unstable
[09:54] <Keybuk> so I had to wipe it and rebuild the db
[09:54] <pitti> ah, I see
[09:54] <TheMuso> Lovely.
[09:54] <Keybuk> (and then we should probably check hardy to see what we accidentally merged :p)
[09:55] <pitti> well, let's hope that maintainers would have noticed :)
[09:55] <dholbach> more! new! crack! :)
[09:56] <seb128> Keybuk: do you have an idea on how long it'll take to regenerate everything?
[09:57] <Keybuk> seb128: an hour or so more
[09:57] <Keybuk> maybe two
[09:57] <seb128> ok, so today, good
[09:57] <seb128> thanks
[09:59] <seb128> StevenK: there is a new gimp version to merge ;-)
[10:02] <StevenK> seb128: Oh, gah
[10:17]  * siretart likes the current state of http://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html :)
[10:23] <tjaalton> duh, apparently debian/foo.install overrides any setting I have on rules (like -Xbar)?
[10:26] <gaspa> mvo: when do you uploaded ltrace? I lost it :P
[10:33] <pitti> cjwatson: doko just gave his review and thumbs-up to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardy-reducing-duplication FYI
[10:34] <cjwatson> ok, thanks
[11:01] <StevenK> seb128: What new version?
[11:12] <seb128> StevenK: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gimp/news/20071121T194706Z.html
[11:12] <StevenK> I see that.
[11:13] <StevenK> I've done most of the hard work in 2.4.1, so 2.4.2 should be simple.
[11:13] <seb128> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatchTaggingGuidelines
[11:13]  * pitti hugs seb128
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: is the 'yes' in UbuntuSpecific really necessary?
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: isn't the mere presence of the tag implying a 'yes'?
[11:14] <seb128> pitti: you want to change it by an UbuntuSpecificReason?
[11:14] <seb128> or UbuntuSpecificRationale
[11:15] <seb128> right, that's not really required
[11:15] <seb128> feel free to edit the wiki and change that
[11:15] <pitti> that's a bit too long; "UbuntuSpecific: we do not want to have this application appear in our menu" or so
[11:15] <seb128> works for me
[11:15] <pitti> edited
[11:16] <seb128> thanks
[11:27] <mvo> gaspa: ltrace: Fri, 16 Nov 2007
[11:34] <gaspa> mvo, ok. Then the bug should be closed.
[11:34] <mvo> gaspa: what bugnumber was that?
[11:35] <gaspa> mvo: bug #160896
[11:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160896 in ltrace "Merge with version 0.5.3 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160896
[11:35] <mvo> gaspa: doing that now, thanks
[11:36] <gaspa> ok, thank _you_ :d
[11:38] <mvo> jdong: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gutsy-backports/+bug/164488 <- compiz backport request
[11:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164488 in gutsy-backports "Please backport-sync compiz and compiz-fusion-plugins-extra from hardy" [Undecided,New]
[11:38] <theunixgeek> What do you talk about in here?
[11:38] <StevenK> Keybuk: I disagree with your first comment in AboutThisComputer
[11:43] <StevenK> Riddell: Ping
[11:43] <Riddell> hi StevenK
[11:44] <StevenK> Riddell: Would you mind running "python -c 'import os; print os.environ'" on a Kubuntu desktop machine and pastebinning the result?
[11:47] <Riddell> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45459/
[11:47] <Riddell> StevenK: this is me logged into KDE 4 if you're wondering about the funn PATH
[11:55]  * Hobbsee waves
[11:55] <ajmitch> hi  Hobbsee :)
[11:56] <Hobbsee> ajmitch!
[11:58]  * mvo waves to Hobbsee
[11:59] <Hobbsee> heya mvo!
[11:59]  * Hobbsee hugs mvo
[12:07] <Keybuk> StevenK: ?
[12:08] <StevenK> Keybuk: "ScottJamesRemnant: summary no longer matches the content of the specification, adjust."
[12:08] <Keybuk> StevenK: the specification is "About This/Your Computer should show useful information about your computer, its hardware and installed operating system and desktop environment"
[12:08] <StevenK> Keybuk: I disagree, I think it does match; if you don't agree, could you give me more information.
[12:08] <Keybuk> the priority of that information is inherent in the order? :)
[12:09] <Keybuk> and the spec at no point says what derivative name you're running
[12:10] <StevenK> Because fetching that information is *hard*.
[12:10] <StevenK> We spoke about that bit alone for >20 minutes :-)
[12:10] <Keybuk> but the summary says, as the very first thing, Ubuntu derivative name
[12:10] <Keybuk> so the summary no longer matches the specification ;)
[12:11] <StevenK> Okay, point.
[12:12] <StevenK> Keybuk: First spec, be gentle, etc, etc :-)
[12:12] <StevenK> Well, okay, first spec reviewed
[12:12] <StevenK> Hum
[12:13] <StevenK> How I can get a glob that matches libtiny*deb but not if it contains '-dev' ?
[12:13] <pitti> Keybuk: there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PolicyKitIntegration
[12:16] <Mirv> pitti: have the language packs for gutsy been already generated? where will they appear this time at first? they are quite badly needed as Rosetta had those performance problems preventing translation imports at release time.
[12:16] <pitti> Mirv: they are in PPA now; testing appreciated!
[12:17] <ion_> Yay, git-core tries to overwrite /usr/share/perl5/Error.pm from liberror-perl
[12:19] <Mirv> pitti: ah, it's not ppa.dogfood anymore, otherwise I'd have noted... thanks!
[12:20] <Hobbsee> pitti: any reason you are dumping thme into ppa?
[12:20] <Keybuk> StevenK: libtiny*deb~*-dev*
[12:20] <Keybuk> (in zsh :p)
[12:21] <pitti> Hobbsee: as opposed to what?
[12:21] <StevenK> Keybuk: I see your point about the information in About Ubuntu and About Gnome, but I'm not sure what to do, my feeling is a button -- but I'm not sure if that's a good idea.
[12:21] <pitti> Hobbsee: in ancient tiems I had them on people.u.c., but PPAs are much nicer :)
[12:21] <Hobbsee> pitti: i thought you used to build them on some of the canonical machines.
[12:21] <pitti> I don't need to maintain my owhn archive any more
[12:21] <Hobbsee> like, 6 months ago
[12:21] <Keybuk> ok, MoM should be happy again
[12:21] <Keybuk> and sane this time
[12:21]  * pitti hugs Keybuk, thanks
[12:21]  * ogra reloads
[12:24] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: doesn't that require the owner of MoM to be sane too, for it to be sane?
[12:25] <Mithrandir> sanity is overrated.
[12:25] <StevenK> We're all perfectly sane!
[12:25] <Hobbsee> yeah well.  tell me about it.
[12:25]  * StevenK cackles to himself
[12:27] <Mirv> pitti: yup, the langpacks (fi) seem to contain correct stuff and fix the most important stuff that I and others have been waiting for.
[12:35] <Keybuk> doesn't look like we accidentally merged anything from experimental
[12:35]  * StevenK decides his head is spinning too much to merge gimp right now
[12:35] <tjaalton> ion_: fixed already, -1.1 should be in hardy soon
[12:36] <ion_> Nice
[12:36] <StevenK> Hrm.
[12:37] <StevenK> Stupid idea - the start-here and Gnome icons become buttons that link to the About Ubuntu/Gnome bits :-)
[12:41] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks for AptAuthenticationReliability, I'm happy with it
[12:44] <cjwatson> mvo: cool. it's Scott's to review
[12:44] <cjwatson> mvo: could I have a release note for networkless-installation-fixes?
[12:46] <mvo> cjwatson: sure
[12:49] <mvo> cjwatson: updated
[12:50] <cjwatson> ta
[13:14] <ogra> Keybuk, why does my dmesg talk about eth2 and i end up with an actual eth5 device ... can we syncronize the kernel and udev somehow ?
[13:14]  * ogra just got a USB-ETH adapter that shows this behavior
[13:15] <broonie> ogra: The kernel printk happens before the device is presented to userspace.
[13:15] <ogra> well, then userspace should get the device name from the printk or the printk should be supressed and replaced by a udev message that comes with the right interface name
[13:16] <Keybuk> ?
[13:17] <Keybuk> does it particularly matter?
[13:17] <ogra> its confusing that i have to look up the right name in hal device manager since its not exposed anywheer else easily
[13:17] <broonie> ogra: Userspace does get the device name that's printed, it just immediately replaces it.
[13:18] <Keybuk> what information in dmesg do you need?
[13:18] <ogra> broonie, right, so the message should be shown after the replace
[13:18] <ogra> [81112.456000] usb 3-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 2
[13:18] <ogra> [81112.588000] usb 3-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
[13:18] <ogra> [81113.300000] eth2: register 'MOSCHIP usb-ethernet driver' at usb-0000:00:13.2-2, MOSCHIP 7830 usb-NET adapter, 10:11:00:03:10:98
[13:18] <ogra> [81113.300000] usbcore: registered new interface driver MOSCHIP usb-ethernet driver
[13:18] <Keybuk> is any of that information not in lshal?
[13:18] <ogra> Keybuk, thats what dmesg shows me
[13:18] <ogra> ogra@laptop:~/devel/hardy/ltsp$ LANG=C ifconfig eth2
[13:18] <ogra> eth2: error fetching interface information: Device not found
[13:18] <Keybuk> ogra: so?
[13:18] <Keybuk> don't look at dmesg
[13:18] <Keybuk> pretend it doesn't exist
[13:18] <Keybuk> dmesg is kernel debugging output
[13:19] <Keybuk> look at HAL and /sys and ifconfig -a
[13:19] <ogra> tell that to our users :)
[13:19]  * ogra is expecting complaints 
[13:19] <cjwatson> this isn't new behaviour
[13:19] <ogra> but also not very old
[13:19] <cjwatson> we have been renaming network devices in userspace since warty
[13:19] <Keybuk> we've had this behaviour for at least the last 4 releases
[13:19] <Keybuk> certainly since ever in some cases
[13:19] <cjwatson> at one level or another
[13:19] <Keybuk> nobody complains that much
[13:20] <Keybuk> if there's information in dmesg that isn't exposed through HAL in userspace
[13:20] <Keybuk> then that's a bug
[13:20] <Keybuk> you shouldn't need to look at dmesg at all
[13:20] <Keybuk> dmesg is only useful for handing unread to kernel developers when you have a problem
[13:20] <ogra> my point is that its exposed in dmesg first place ....
[13:21] <ogra> with different info
[13:21] <Keybuk> memory addresses are exposed in dmesg
[13:21] <Keybuk> they don't match /proc/maps
[13:21] <Keybuk> you haven't complained about that yet
[13:21] <StevenK> Hah
[13:21] <ogra> i didnt use them actively yet :P
[13:22] <StevenK> Keybuk: /proc/version doesn't match my machine name! Oh my god, kittens are dying.
[13:22] <StevenK> Or something
[13:26] <gaspa> pitti: about usplash, do you have some deadline for inclusion of my features? I think i won't have so much time this week.
[13:42]  * Keybuk blinks
[13:42] <Keybuk> my mortgage advisor just messaged me on Facebook to remind me that it's review time
[13:42] <Keybuk> W. T. F.
[13:43] <ogra> on facebook ?
[13:43] <soren> That's... uh.. wow.
[13:44] <Keybuk> We so need Web 2.0 Service Park 1
[13:44] <Keybuk> pack too
[13:44] <ogra> heh
[13:44] <Hobbsee> ...impressive.
[13:48] <zul> Keybuk: what impressive service
[13:52] <Ng> do you really want your mortgage adviser to see all the pirate/vampire groups you're in on facebook? ;o
[13:55] <\sh> web 2.0? my former company is working on propietary web 3.0 with world domination services attached
[13:55] <Hobbsee> \sh: now that sounds fun...
[13:56] <Keybuk> Ng: I have all of those blocked ;)
[13:56] <highvoltage> Keybuk: I've got people who messaged me on facebook for business purposes too :-/
[13:56] <\sh> Hobbsee, tbh this is for real
[13:57] <\sh> Hobbsee, they tried it already...but a new messenger with some funny comic avatares were not the hype ... so they are discussion now some web 3.0 stuff *crazy*
[13:57] <\sh> s/discussion/discussing/
[13:58] <StevenK> \sh: But you can't be discussing world domination, you don't work for the Canonical Evil Empire
[13:59] <zul> *groan*
[13:59] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it's the Evil Canonical Empire (tm).
[14:00] <\sh> StevenK, really, with more then 500 million on their account here, they can discussion world domination ,-)
[14:00] <\sh> argl
[14:00] <\sh> disccusing
[14:00]  * norsetto wonders if the sabdfl has a dark helmet and an heavy breath
[14:00] <\sh> well, it's 500 mio in total but only 300 mio in cash money :(
[14:03] <StevenK> Keybuk: I have one concern left to address in AboutThisComputer, but it was one that wasn't discussed in the BOF, and I'm at a loss at how to explain it.
[14:03] <Keybuk> :)
[14:04] <StevenK> Keybuk: I'm loathe to include a button labelled "More Information..." since the user would probably assume it was going to give more information about their computer not Ubuntu
[14:04] <Keybuk> StevenK: I thought a good solution was to stick that stuff under "Help and Support" :-)
[14:05] <sabdfl> norsetto: some days
[14:05] <sabdfl> some nights, too
[14:05] <norsetto> sabdfl: yes, I thought you might eat indian from time to time ...
[14:06] <StevenK> Keybuk: Oooh. So I mention that the current details will be assimilated into Help and Support, and set it back to Review?
[14:06] <Keybuk> StevenK: sure
[14:06]  * highvoltage hear the Imperial March for some reason
[14:06] <highvoltage> *hears
[14:06] <Hobbsee> norsetto: that's when he's not eating people.
[14:06] <zul> mmmm....squishy
[14:06] <norsetto> Hobbsee: well, indian people ;-)
[14:07] <Hobbsee> norsetto: oh, he only eats indians now?  how racist1
[14:09] <StevenK> Keybuk: Spec twiddled.
[14:09] <Keybuk> StevenK: could you sneak into #ubuntu-meeting
[15:10] <soren> What does the Uploaders: field do? AFAIUI anyone can actually upload the package, so that happens if you're not listed in Uploaders:? Does the maintainer get a special kind of notification?  (In Debian of course, I know we don't use it)
[15:11] <seb128> soren: it don't consider the upload as a NMU for uploaders
[15:11] <seb128> s/don't/doesn't
[15:12] <lamont> seb128: anything other than lintian for 'it'?
[15:12] <soren> seb128: So there's nothing technical in place that looks at uploaders at all?
[15:12] <lamont> soren: maybe some backend web/stats/qa stuff
[15:12] <seb128> soren: what do you mean? The PTS list the maintainer and the uploaders
[15:13] <seb128> uploaders is somewhat equal to co-maintainer
[15:13] <soren> Maybe it's just that I haven't completely grasped the NMU concept.
[15:13] <lamont> soren: in terms of things getting into the archive, doing a non-NMU version upload and not being in Uploaders will not cause it to be rejected
[15:13] <soren> What happens if someone does an NMU
[15:13] <soren> ?
[15:13] <seb128> NMU is an upload from somebody who doesn't maintain the package
[15:13] <soren> Yes, that much I understand. :)
[15:14] <seb128> he gets flamed? ;-)
[15:14] <lamont> soren: NMU generally means that whatever the SCM that the maintainer uses is now out of date
[15:14] <soren> lamont: How do you tell an NMU version from a "regular" one?
[15:14] <seb128> .1 happened to the number usually
[15:14] <lamont> soren: because it has that NMU version number...
[15:14] <seb128> s/happened/appened
[15:14] <soren> lamont: You're being extraordinarily unhelpful here :)
[15:15] <lamont> for example, all of the kernel uploads happen to have NMU version numbers.
[15:15] <seb128> soren: the websites etc list the NMUs differently
[15:15] <soren> seb128: oic
[15:15] <lamont> backend stuff (like the websites) key off of uploader not maintainer/uploaders, and call it an NMU
[15:15] <soren> lamont: a) What defines an NMU version number? b) Why do kernels all have such a version number?
[15:16] <lamont> multiple components (and therefore a dot) in the debian portion of the version
[15:16] <soren> Ok.
[15:16] <lamont> kernel -> it was the least evil way to encode all the info we wanted
[15:16] <seb128> soren: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html
[15:17] <soren> lamont: Ah, so it's not because kernel upload a actually non-maintainer-uploads, they just look like it.
[15:17] <lamont> right
[15:17] <lamont> it's the one case I know of in debian or ubuntu where a maintainer upload always has a NMU version number.
[15:18] <lamont> doing an NMU without using a NMU version number will get you massively flamed in debian
[15:18] <lamont> that is, if the package is foo_1.2-3, and you upload foo_1.2-4, you better be the mainainer.  (NMU should be foo_1.2-3.N, with N starting at 1 generally)
[15:19] <soren> Maintainer or uploader, right?
[15:22] <lamont> cjwatson: can we make truncated-conversion-of-pointer-to-int a failure on hardy?
[15:22] <lamont> that'd affect amd64 and ia64 builds, and cause them to FTBFS instead of failing to run
[15:22] <soren> Otherwise I missed the point of the Uploaders: field again.
[15:22] <lamont> maintainer/uploader
[15:22] <soren> Ok, great.
[15:23] <lamont> Maintainer is the maintainer email address.  uploader is all the other names that could appear in debian/changelog and still mean "maintainer"
[15:23] <lamont> as in aliases for the maintainer
[15:23] <lamont> as far as the world is concerned.
[15:23] <soren> lamont: Maintainer: can't list more than one e-mail?
[15:23] <lamont> I don't think it can... would welcome an existance-proof to the contrary
[15:24] <cjwatson> lamont: truncated-conversion> would be OK by me
[15:24] <lamont> cjwatson: I'll push the change towards the buildd package rather than cowboying it then
[15:24] <soren> lamont: There are two cases, but I don't think they count :)
[15:25] <lamont> soren: LOL
[15:25] <soren> lamont: Ah, only really one: moblin-chat. It lists that I think is the original maintainer + MOTU.
[15:25] <soren> lamont: The other one was moblin-chat-dbgsym.
[15:25] <lamont> ok.  existance-proof to the contrary in debian. ;-)
[15:26] <lamont> doko: how hard would it be to make gcc die in the instances that get caught as conversion of a pointer coincident to an implicit function definition?
[15:27] <Hobbsee> soren: sounds like a script breakage
[15:27] <lamont> doko: http://wiki.debian.org/ImplicitPointerConversions
[15:27] <lamont> Hobbsee: ah, come on, who said they used a script?
[15:28]  * lamont back in a few
[15:28] <doko> lamont: I didn't look
[15:29] <lamont> doko: my options are to (1) have gcc do it (work), or (2) have sbuild check after the build is done, thereby catching all of the instances in one pass (very little work).  I'm inclined to go with option 2, but wanted to give you the chance to claim it.
[15:29] <lamont> debian/ia64 is doing (2)
[15:29] <doko> lamont: maybe the easiest way is to make it an error, if a (new) option -fsomething is passed
[15:30] <lamont> doko: it's always an error.  it's just flagged as two warnings now.
[15:30] <doko> no, I don't claim it.
[15:30] <lamont> heh. no worries
[15:40] <kaaloo> Hi I just patched libxcb1 on hardy to support the LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK env variable which allows java apps like the google web toolkit to run.  I sent a diff to ubuntu-motu but I'm not sure if I sent it to the right place and in the right format.  Any pointers ?  Thanks !
[15:41] <norsetto> kaaloo: how did you send this debdiff?
[15:42] <kaaloo> well, I did a diff -u on the sources I got through apt-get source and the source tree I modified (in one directory)
[15:44] <norsetto> kaaloo: sure, but how did you send it? Note that libxcb1 is in main, so, there is nothing motus can do for you
[16:11] <pitti> seb128: I just tagged all Ubuntu patches in g-v-m \o/
[16:11] <pitti> (and forwarded them upstream, too)
[16:11] <pitti> this looks really good
[16:11]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[16:11]  * pitti hugs seb128
[16:12] <seb128> pitti: you rock ;-)
[16:12]  * pitti uploads and chalks off another libpam-foreground dependency
[16:15] <pitti> cjwatson: so adding a new static group is actually hard? and you don't think we can get away with using an existing static group instead of "noptrace"?
[16:16] <gaspa> pitti: about usplash, do you have some deadline for inclusion of my features? I think i won't have so much time this week.
[16:16] <pitti> gaspa: FeatureFreeze :)
[16:16]  * gaspa ransacks into his bookmarks...
[16:17] <Keybuk> February 14th
[16:17] <Keybuk> there's going to be some harsh love
[16:17] <gaspa> oh, so much time
[16:17] <gaspa> good
[16:17] <gaspa> :D
[16:18] <Keybuk> though obviously, the sooner the better
[16:18] <Keybuk> things landed on feature freeze after coming from nowhere ... not popular
[16:18] <cjwatson> pitti: adding a new static group is trivial *except* for the way we really ought to debconfiscate base-passwd first otherwise upgrades will suck
[16:19] <cjwatson> pitti: there haven't been any new users or groups for years so you may have forgotten, but the process involves 'read' in base-passwd.postinst
[16:19] <cjwatson> it's fixable, just a bit of work we need to (and, TBH, really ought to) swallow
[16:20] <pitti> ah, for asking whether the postinst may update /etc/passwd?
[16:20] <cjwatson> pitti: short of 'root' (which is obviously undesirable for other reasons), I'm not sure any other static group is suitable, but please do read through the list and suggest one
[16:20] <cjwatson> right
[16:21] <cjwatson> it's not entirely trivial to debconfiscate for various reasons, but it is possible
[16:21] <pitti> cjwatson: I just did; all existing ones feel a bit like abuse; 'sys' and 'nogroup' still seem like the most obvious ones
[16:21] <tjaalton> kaaloo: see /usr/share/doc/libx11-6/NEWS.Debian.gz
[16:21] <pitti> but neither denote the meaning of what we try to do
[16:21] <cjwatson> nogroup isn't hopelessly bad but we'd have to be careful to avoid anything ever ending up writable by it
[16:21] <cjwatson> and I think audit tools may flag it as a bug
[16:21] <cjwatson> and yes, it's not obvious
[16:21] <cjwatson> nobody knows what sys is for
[16:21] <cjwatson> AFAIK
[16:22] <gaspa> Keybuk, sure.. i guess at the end of the month we'll have a shining new usplash
[16:22] <cjwatson> if anyone does know, please tell me so that I can put it in the users-and-groups documentation
[16:24] <cjwatson> too many of the other groups probably have users in them already
[16:24] <pitti> I never saw 'sys' in use, that's why I mentioned it; probably some "hysterical raisins" case
[16:25] <kaaloo> norsetto: sorry I had to go off to a meeting, I'm catching up on the thread thanks
[16:25]  * pitti wants a "NOPTRACE/NOLDPRELOAD" file attribute
[16:26] <kaaloo> tjaalton: thanks I will take a look right now at that
[16:27] <Keybuk> pitti: like +d ?
[16:28] <Keybuk> or is that a different !dumpable
[16:28] <Keybuk> apparently that's different, oh well
[16:28] <Keybuk> :p
[16:28] <pitti> 'd'? that's not in chmod(1)
[16:28] <Keybuk> chattr
[16:29] <pitti> ah, chattr is ext2 only
[16:29] <Keybuk> what's wrong with that? :)
[16:29] <pitti> ah, that dump :)
[16:29] <pitti> the mother of all backup solutions :)
[16:29] <pitti> Keybuk: well, we don't prescribe people to use ext3...
[16:30] <Keybuk> pitti: we should
[16:30] <Keybuk> there was a wonderful talk at LCA, with a panel of kernel developers
[16:30] <Keybuk> and someone asked the question "what filesystem do you use?"
[16:30] <Keybuk> and they went down the list
[16:30] <Keybuk> everybody put their hands up for ext3
[16:31] <Keybuk> so if you're not running ext3, you're going to find the bugs first :-)
[16:31] <Keybuk> AND be expected to fix them
[16:31] <pitti> well, for this particular case it would even be ok
[16:31] <pitti> since it's just an additional security measure, not essential functionality
[16:32] <kaaloo> tjaalton: thanks that is another way to go I suppose.  What I did is merge that from libxcb1.1 where they ended up putting that LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK workaround in the codebase.
[16:32] <pitti> but anyway, I don't see anything useful in chattr
[16:32] <pitti> (for ptrace/LD_PRELOAD)
[16:33] <tjaalton> kaaloo: who's 'they'?-)
[16:34] <Xteven> hi
[16:34] <cjwatson> right, +d is dump(1) not dumpable as in core dumps
[16:34] <Xteven> cjwatson: thx for the info, I got gfxboot working nicely
[16:34] <cjwatson> Xteven: oh good
[16:34] <tjaalton> kaaloo: note that newer java (like icedtea) should not have that bug
[16:34] <cjwatson> I was hoping not to have to support .inc modifications ;-)
[16:35] <Xteven> cjwatson: just one last question ;) I changed the f1.txt etc files, but they don't change in the graphical version of the bootmenu. Is there an easy way to fix that ? Or possibly just remove the Help button ?
[16:36] <Keybuk> pitti: what was the problem with g+s ?
[16:36] <pitti> Keybuk: well, that works; I'm just trying to avoid the pain of introducing a new static group
[16:37] <pitti> Keybuk: since we want to use that approach in a large number of packages (maybe 10?) I'd like to avoid 10 copies of the postinst code for that
[16:37] <kaaloo> tjaalton: :) oh I really don't know them, the libxcb1 maintainers at freedesktop.org.  Sorry for being imprecise !
[16:37] <Keybuk> can't we do it in base-files ?
[16:37] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: debconfiscation of base-passwd> wouldn't that just be to check if debconf is installed and if so, use that, if not fall back to read?
[16:37] <cjwatson> Xteven: there's a corresponding help.xml in debian-installer/build/boot/x86/
[16:37] <Keybuk> we're dropping plugdev, powerdev, netdev, scanner, etc. too? no
[16:38] <cjwatson> Xteven: the duplication is unfortunate; I haven't finished the code to generate f*.txt from that XML file yet
[16:38] <Keybuk> (powerdev surprised me, I'd never even *heard* of that one!)
[16:38] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it's only for powerful developers.
[16:38] <kaaloo> tjaalton: If the jvm is easy to patch then it would be nice to have that in the package installation script
[16:38] <pitti> Keybuk: those aren't static groups
[16:38] <tjaalton> kaaloo: cannot be done
[16:38] <gaspa> pitti: what packages won't be ptraced? (and why, just for curiosity?)
[16:38] <tjaalton> kaaloo: because of the license
[16:38] <pitti> gaspa: why> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PolicyKitIntegration
[16:39] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: (a) it really needs to be done in update-passwd.c so it probably needs a clone of debconfclient.h to do it in C (b) I have a bunch of other bugs asking for more fine-grained control and I'd really like to solve those at the same time
[16:39] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: trust me, if I thought it were trivial I'd have done it already :-)
[16:39] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ah, ugh.
[16:39] <pitti> gaspa: in short: disabling ptrace will stop the possibility to attach gdb to things like ssh, gksu, gnupg to spy out passwords from their memory
[16:39] <ember> kaaloo check 161108
[16:39] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, I was wondering why, not disputing your assesment. :-)
[16:39] <gaspa> ssh?
[16:39] <gaspa> uh
[16:40] <gaspa> pitti: that hurts.
[16:40] <pitti> gaspa: I think this particular case might already been solved (cjwatson mentioned this recently), let me check
[16:40] <Keybuk> pitti: plugdev is
[16:40] <cjwatson> ssh-agent is setgid ssh, but ssh itself isn't
[16:40] <cjwatson> so if you use an agent you're fine
[16:41] <kaaloo> ember: thanks, it's exactly that problem, I just patched libxcb1.0.3 with the LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK feature from libxcb1.1
[16:42] <pitti> gaspa: this is a paranoia measure (not that it would be hard to spy passwords on an average user's box once you got in a trojan)
[16:42] <tjaalton> kaaloo: err, what version of ubuntu are you using?
[16:42] <kaaloo> tjaalton: hardy
[16:42] <tjaalton> oh
[16:42] <gaspa> pitti, i see, but all of that things won't works under fakeroot, (or umview, but this is not so much interesting )
[16:42] <tjaalton> right, it's 1.0
[16:42] <gaspa> right?
[16:43] <pitti> right
[16:43] <pitti> gaspa: but why would you want to run ssh or gnupg under fakeroot?
[16:43] <Xteven> cjwatson: ok, thx I'll have a look
[16:43] <gaspa> i'm not interested in fakeroot, but in umview :P
[16:44] <gaspa> it use intensively ptrace for virtualize syscalls.
[16:44] <mvo> Riddell: in gnome there is something called "gnome-settings-daemon" that sets the theme. is there a equivalent in kde? when I run a kde app in my gnome session it looks unthemed, anything I need to start here?
[16:44] <cjwatson> gaspa: setgid doesn't stop root from ptracing things
[16:44] <gaspa> cjwatson: it doesn't work under root
[16:44] <pitti> gaspa: right, it's meant to stop programs in your user sessions; no way to stop root
[16:45] <kaaloo> tjaalton: have to go off again, I'll need some help to get this into the distribution
[16:45] <cjwatson> gaspa: perhaps it needs to for this
[16:46] <gaspa> pitti, cjwatson: umview don't want to use root to virtualize things, but i understand that's a very few used package
[16:46] <tjaalton> kaaloo: well, libxcb-1.1 will probably get in hardy, so..
[16:46] <tjaalton> kaaloo: it was released two weeks ago
[16:47] <kaaloo> tjaalton:gutsy has libxcb-1.0.3 too
[16:47] <Riddell> mvo: unthemed as in looks like windows 95 square buttons?
[16:48] <mvo> Riddell: yes
[16:48] <tjaalton> kaaloo: yes, I thought that debian already had 1.1 but apparently not
[16:48] <Riddell> mvo: which app are you running?
[16:49] <mvo> Riddell: just a random one (kfind in this case). I'm running it in a virtual X environment, there is pretty much nothing else in it
[16:51] <Riddell> mvo: does it create a file in /home/jr/.qt/qtrc ?
[16:51] <mvo> Riddell: it looks like I do not have such a file
[16:52] <Riddell> mvo: do you have permission to create one?
[16:53] <mvo> Riddell: yes
[16:53] <mvo> Riddell: ohhhh ... its currently root.root it seems, that might explain it I guess
[16:54] <Riddell> mvo: fix that and run a kde app, hopefully it'll write a qtrc which uses plastik
[16:56] <mvo> Riddell: hm, no luck. can you pastebin the content of the .qt/qtrc file? I will try with that one then
[16:57] <Riddell> mvo: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/qtrc
[16:58] <mvo> no luck, maybe I miss a theme package or something?
[16:59] <mvo> this is for a good course, I'm playing with a screenshot generator
[17:01] <seb128> mvo: a theme package for what?
[17:04] <mvo> seb128: it looks ugly currently and we do want nice screenshots for kde apps, don't we :)
[17:04] <mvo> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/Kfind.desktop.png
[17:05] <Mithrandir> mvo: when you have a little bit of time, I'd like to chat about application installation for mobile.
[17:05] <Mithrandir> mvo: no hurry, though.
[17:05] <Riddell> mvo: ah, my qtrc will use the kubuntu widget theme not the kde one
[17:05] <Riddell> mvo: you can always run kcontrol and set it manually
[17:05] <Riddell> Appearance->Style
[17:05] <mvo> Riddell: ok, I try this now. what packages does the kbuntu widget theme belongs to?
[17:06] <mvo> Mithrandir: I would prefer tomorrow, but if it does not take too much time I'm fine with today too
[17:06] <Riddell> mvo: kde-style-polyester
[17:06] <Mithrandir> mvo: either works for me
[17:06] <mvo> Mithrandir: I just need to leave in ~20min
[17:06] <seb128> mvo: maybe you need the gtk qt engine crappy thing
[17:06] <Mithrandir> mvo: let's do it tomorrow then.
[17:06] <mvo> Mithrandir: is it about the mobile-software-updates spec? or something different?
[17:06] <Mithrandir> mvo: very much related to it, yes.
[17:07] <Mithrandir> mvo: rather about your note at the bottom about just using apturl
[17:07] <mvo> Mithrandir: that would be my prefered solution
[17:07] <mvo> Riddell: thanks for your help, I think its nicer now
[17:07] <mvo> seb128: god heavens no :)
[17:08] <Mithrandir> mvo: you seem busy with your screenshot stuff, so let's just discuss it tomorrow, ok?
[17:08] <mvo> Mithrandir: sure - the screenshot stuff is related to this too, its part of the content for a "install-from-here" website
[17:08] <Mithrandir> mvo: sounds cool
[17:09] <pitti> ogra, Riddell: do you have some time to merge the current ubuntu seed changes? there's quite a lot of changes, and I'm not sure about whether you want some of them
[17:09]  * pitti merges gobuntu and xubuntu in the meantime
[17:10] <Riddell> pitti: ok
[17:20] <soren> pitti: Will you have time to do source NEW tomorrow?
[17:20] <pitti> soren: yes, I think so
[17:20] <soren> pitti: Excellent.
[17:20] <pitti> last Friday I spent 3 hours on SRU and didn't feel like it any more
[17:21] <pitti> but tomorrow I will have time
[17:21]  * pitti looks at libpam-runtime.postinst and blinks
[17:22] <ion_> Heh
[17:23] <pitti> WTH should this md5sum check achieve?
[17:25] <soren> pitti: It seems to check if common-* has been modified and if not, installs a fresh version?
[17:26] <pitti> strawpoll: we will drop libpam-foreground from main, since we have ConsoleKit for that now; should we rather leave it in /etc/pam.d/common-session and live with the error message spew about a missing module in auth.log, or remove it from the default common-auth and drop the package entirely?
[17:26] <soren> pitti: I assume the .md5sums contains the md5sum of all the different versions of the files ever shipped (or at least since 0.76-17)
[17:26] <pitti> soren: right, but if the file is already identical to the one you check, why bother copying it?
[17:26] <soren> pitti: There could be multiple md5sums in that file.
[17:26] <pitti> soren: oh, I seee
[17:27] <soren> pitti: So it sees if..
[17:27] <soren> right.
[17:27] <soren> :)
[17:27] <soren> It's a bit icky, though.
[17:28] <soren> If I've upgraded libpam-runtime at some point and found that I liked the old (default) version of e.g. common-auth better and reinstalled that, that postinst will overwrite it.
[17:29] <soren> The right thing to do was to have the md5sums file have each line read: v1,v2,v3: <the md5sum of the file as shipped in v1, v2, and v3> and then have the grep also look for  $2, or something.
[17:30] <ganeshhegd1> I installed AWN using http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=385981  but how to run?
[17:33] <soren> ganeshhegd1: Have you looked in your menus?
[17:34] <soren> ganeshhegd1: I recommend you ask in #ubuntu, by the way. This channel is for development discussion.
[17:34] <ganeshhegd1> k...
[17:40] <pitti> soren: it only does it on particular upgrades (ATM if you upgrade from << 0.76-17)
[17:41] <soren> pitti: Er.. yes?
[17:41] <pitti> soren: so it won't always overwrite your changes
[17:42] <pitti> I'll need to bump the version for hardy, though, if we want to get rid of libpam-foreground in common-auth
[17:42] <soren> pitti: Sure, only if you're unlucky enough to have one of your files match an old md5sum.
[17:42] <soren> pitti: It's probably an academic discussion, but still :)
[17:45] <Mithrandir> asac: do you know why mobile-browser is Discussion rather than review or approved?
[17:46] <pitti> slangasek: is there a particular reason to build pam against db4.5? I'm just about to drop the libpam-foreground patch, and while I'm at it I could drop that delta, too
[17:46] <pitti> slangasek: AFAICS it was just a quick change before gutsy's release to drop 4.6, but now it's our default AFAICS
[17:49] <Riddell> seb128: doing syncs?
[17:50] <seb128> Riddell: yes
[17:50] <seb128> Riddell: do you need one of those? ;-)
[17:50] <Riddell> seb128: bug 164520 is all
[17:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164520 in k3b-i18n "Please sync k3b-i18n 1.0.4-1  (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164520
[17:51] <seb128> Riddell: I just did this one ;-)
[17:51] <Riddell> seb128: perfect
[17:51] <seb128> bug  #163383
[17:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163383 in k3b-i18n "Please sync k3b-i18n 1.0.4-1  (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163383
[17:51] <seb128> Riddell: can you close the duplicate?
[17:51] <seb128> thanks
[17:51] <Riddell> seb128: sure
[18:02] <Propietario_> hola
[18:02] <Propietario_> alguien puede ayudarme con grub error 17
[18:02] <Propietario_> ??
[18:03] <Propietario_> is someone in there that could help me with grub error 17?
[18:03] <Sp4rKy> i guess it's not he good chan, try #ubuntu
[18:03] <Propietario_> ok
[18:03] <Propietario_> thanks anyway
[18:34] <blueyed> pitti: can you approve the SRU nomination for bug 141516, please?
[18:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141516 in gparted "[MASTER] Gparted crashes when refreshing devices" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/141516
[18:37] <blueyed> calc: what about the OOo upload?
[18:56] <pitti> blueyed: oh, fixing that would be great, thanks! done
[18:57] <blueyed> pitti: great! thanks! actually it's fixed already. Maybe you want to sponsor the upload then, too? :)
[18:59] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: what's the reason for ckbcomp running during boot, really?
[19:04] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: it doesn't if console-setup has been properly configured beforehand
[19:05] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: err. maybe it does. it isn't meant to
[19:05] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ckbcomp won't run if usplash is running
[19:05] <LaserJock> pitti, cjwatson: are you guys aware of an queue or search that the Ubuntu Drivers can do to get release nominations?
[19:06] <cjwatson> if usplash isn't running, you might hit an annoying corner case
[19:06] <cjwatson> LaserJock: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+nominations - no idea if you can see that
[19:07] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: mdz claimed it was, by inspection of the code, I haven't looked myself.
[19:07] <LaserJock> I was just wondering if *you* can see it :-)
[19:07] <cjwatson> mdz: ^-- details please :)
[19:07] <cjwatson> LaserJock: yes
[19:07] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I can forward you the details, it was in private mails.
[19:08] <pochu> LaserJock: I can, cant you?
[19:08] <LaserJock> pochu: I can see it
[19:08] <cjwatson> LaserJock: but I'm always curious which things I can only see due to extra privileges and which things are generally visible; there's no easy way for me to tell
[19:08]  * blueyed can see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+nominations, too
[19:09] <blueyed> ..apparently too many..
[19:09] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: (sent)
[19:09] <blueyed> But even the top OOo crashed has not been approved.. :/
[19:09] <LaserJock> cjwatson: yes, I can understand that
[19:10] <cjwatson> blueyed: we're not using nominations all that much at the moment; that may change
[19:10] <cjwatson> at present, the nominations are largely set by the people who filed the bugs or have some enthusiasm for them, and have little to do with actual development plans
[19:10] <cjwatson> obviously this is an unfortunate state of affairs
[19:12] <pochu> cjwatson: would it make sense if only bug triagers were able to nominate bugs?
[19:12] <pochu> (bug triagers and developers of course)
[19:13] <pochu> although not every contributor who submits patches is in the triagers team...
[19:13] <cjwatson> well, nomination != acceptance
[19:14] <LaserJock> cjwatson: so does the Ubuntu SRU team check Fixed Released bugs then?
[19:14] <cjwatson> I'm not sure whether it needs different privileges, or whether it needs better documentation, or both
[19:14] <cjwatson> however there have been active discussions with the launchpad team about it
[19:14] <cjwatson> LaserJock: what, all of them? certainly not
[19:14] <LaserJock> cjwatson: blueyed's problem was that if the Hardy task is "Fix Released" then how will the Ubuntu SRU team know the SRU exists
[19:14] <cjwatson> err
[19:15] <cjwatson> somebody would follow the procedure documented on StableReleaseUpdates
[19:15] <LaserJock> so nominations are the way to bring it up
[19:15] <cjwatson> "Attach all of the information to the existing bug report, use Nominate for release to mark the bug for backporting, then subscribe the ubuntu-sru team."
[19:15] <cjwatson> the SRU team uses their subscription page
[19:15] <LaserJock> cjwatson: right, but that's the problem that blueyed is talking about
[19:16] <LaserJock> if nominations aren't being accepted well, then Ubuntu SRU won't see the bug
[19:16] <pochu> Hardy's task is closed, so it doesn't show in bug lists or searches...
[19:16] <jdong> urgh stupid airport
[19:16] <jdong> after 20 hours I am finally home for a 2hr flight.
[19:17] <zul> jdong: thanksgiving isnt it?
[19:17] <jdong> now excuse me as I collapse
[19:17] <jdong> zul: yeah, string of canceled flights and extremely discourteous customer support
[19:17] <cjwatson> LaserJock: pitti is the most active SRU team member, so check with him; I suspect he uses bugmail to track it
[19:18] <cjwatson> blueyed: if you have a concrete instance of this problem, please bring it up
[19:22] <LaserJock> there are 353 gutsy nominations, that's pretty difficult to wade through
[19:22] <blueyed> cjwatson: I've just pinged pitti directly about the relevant bug (see above). I've already set a bug back to "Fix committed" for hardy, only to attract ubuntu-sru. My point is, that it's cumbersome having to "ping the right people", if LP could manage it.
[19:23] <blueyed> LaserJock: 352 now. Probably pitti is approving them currently.. :)
[19:26] <cjwatson> I'm declining some that I found also on the dapper list
[19:27] <LaserJock> cjwatson: just because they are on the dapper list or because you already declined them on the dapper list?
[19:28] <cjwatson> LaserJock: the latter
[19:28] <cjwatson> because they're generally not appropriate for stable updates
[19:32] <LaserJock> geeze, there are like 50 gutsy nominations for bugs just against Ubuntu
[19:34] <LaserJock> I'm guessing "Support for important hardware components used in notebook computers" is not really gonna be a SRU
[19:34] <LaserJock> :-)
[19:34] <somerville32> Is it a regression?
[19:35] <LaserJock> no
[19:35] <LaserJock> and it's not filed against any package
[19:35] <LaserJock> it's just "we should support more wifi cards"
[19:46] <blueyed> cjwatson: you might want to approve bug 131526
[19:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131526 in openoffice.org "[gutsy] OpenOffice crashes/hangs with some Gtk themes (e.g. Crux)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131526
[19:47] <cjwatson> blueyed: approved
[19:47] <cjwatson> calc: ^-- FYI
[19:47] <cjwatson> (in case you somehow missed seeing that :-))
[19:48] <blueyed> Thanks. He knows about it though.. :)
[19:48] <Kmos> palmer is Building ebug-http 0.31-1 since day 20th.. stopped there
[19:48] <blueyed> Would it make sense to add the +nomination links to wiki.ubuntu.com/SRU ?
[19:52] <cjwatson> they aren't quite right
[19:52] <cjwatson> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/dapper/+nominations?field.subscriber=ubuntu-sru et al is better
[19:52] <cjwatson> I'll add those
[19:52] <blueyed> cjwatson: great. Thanks!
[19:54] <cjwatson> done
[20:29] <zul> whats MID on the employment page?
[20:29] <ajmitch> mobile?
[20:29] <zul> oh yeah..
[20:32] <bmhm> hi
[20:32] <bmhm> what about providing this as a package: http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Download
[20:32] <bmhm> It will allow bcm43xx-users to use more advanced wireless modes
[20:33] <bmhm> not just bcm43xx as far as i can see
[20:43] <kaaloo> tjaalton: back ! :)  was going through the log, so what could be the best way to handle the libxcb sloppy lock issue ?  Better to wait for libxcb1.1 for you ?
[20:56] <bmhm> hi
[20:56] <bmhm> what about providing this as a package: http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Download
[20:56] <bmhm> It will allow allow wireless-users to use more advanced wireless modes
[20:56] <bmhm> can I get an "ack" please?
[21:03] <tjaalton> kaaloo: yes
[21:07] <lifeless> bmhm: ubuntu-motu might be a better channel to talk about new packages
[21:07] <bmhm> lifeless: they told me to go here
[21:07] <lifeless> ah, ok
[21:07] <bmhm> ;)
[21:08] <bmhm> It's a kernel issue anyway i think
[21:08] <lifeless> there is also #ubuntu-kernel, but thats only useful if you are liable to actively help out
[21:09] <bmhm> no it's just a mod
[21:09] <bmhm> not even
[21:09] <bmhm> a driver package which gives modules
[21:09] <bmhm> I won't go anywhere else
[21:37] <cjwatson> bmhm: I expect we'll be incorporating b43 into hardy; it is very unlikely to be updated in gutsy at this point
[21:37] <bmhm> okay thanks cjwatson sounds good
[21:37] <cjwatson> bmhm: our kernel maintainers are well aware of linuxwireless.org and are in contact with its maintainers from time to time