[04:33] <levander> What am I gonna miss out on if I install ubuntu-desktop and then mythtv instead of just install mythbuntu-desktop without ubuntu-desktop?
[04:34] <Dr_willis> Proberly not much
[04:35] <Dr_willis> thats how i did it. :) the auto-login may not be set up by default.
[04:35] <levander> Dr_willis: how'd you get the auto-login setup?
[04:38] <Dr_willis> I dident. I dont want auto loging in. :)
[04:38] <Dr_willis> its a gdm setting however. not too hard to set up
[04:39] <levander> yeah, i should stop being lazy asking people and just figure it out
[04:39] <levander> i tell you, i'm worn on from learning how to install myth though
[04:39] <levander> first, i had to figure out my NIC driver was causing my machien to crash
[04:39] <levander> then, i had to figure out the graphics card I had wasn't what it was labelled to be
[04:39] <levander> nightmares
[04:40] <levander> it's a bunch of old hardware i threw together
[04:40] <superm1> um mythbuntu-desktop doesn't setup the auto login
[04:40] <superm1> you should still install it
[04:40] <superm1> it pulls in mcc
[04:41] <superm1> and the mythbuntu env
[04:41] <superm1> and the lirc generator
[04:41] <superm1> and the artwork and stuff
[04:41] <superm1> you can turn on the auto login in mcc if you so please
[04:41] <levander> I guess I figured installing mythbuntu-desktop on top of ubuntu-desktop would be the same as installing kubuntu-desktop over ubuntu-desktop
[04:42] <superm1> well yes and no
[04:42] <levander> Installing mythbuntu-desktop, won't that pull in all the XFCE stuff, and make that the default environment?
[04:42] <superm1> it wont make it the default environment
[04:42] <superm1> but yes it will pull in the xfce desktop
[04:43] <levander> One of the developers was in here telling which package to install before I had all these nightmares with this hardware.  Wish I remember what he said.
[04:43] <superm1> grep your logs?
[04:43] <superm1> was it me?
[04:43] <levander> superm1: might have been, don't remember
[04:44] <superm1> i mean you can also go about it installing mcc
[04:44] <superm1> and start from there
[04:44] <levander> not sure what keywords i'd search for
[04:44] <levander> what's the package name for mcc?
[04:45] <superm1> mythbuntu-control-centre
[04:45] <levander> mythbuntu-control-center doesn't pull in mythtv-backend-master or mythtv-frontend
[04:46] <superm1> no it doesn't
[04:46] <superm1> you install those from inside mcc
[04:46] <superm1> and it handles configuring them for you in there too
[04:46] <levander> i'm thinking i'm best off doing what Dr_willis was saying, and just make sure I get everything.
[04:46] <Dr_willis> You can easially install Mythubuntu and then install some other desktops. :) ive done it both ways
[04:48] <levander> It doesn't look like the developers have really pulled out a package and said, "This is the one you install if you just want to run myth on top of ubuntu-desktop or kubuntu-desktop
[04:48] <levander> Dr_willis: mythbuntu-desktop first, and then ubuntu-desktop?  yeah, that's maybe what I should do
[04:49] <superm1> well that's what mythbuntu-desktop is
[04:49] <superm1> it covers your ends no matter what you want to do
[04:49] <superm1> for some people its too much, but it gets everything you "may" need
[04:49] <superm1> and you can always remove stuff later
[04:50] <levander> superm1: if i already have ubuntu-desktop, and then install mythbuntu-desktop, with it change my default environment from Gnome to XFCE?
[04:50] <superm1> no it wont change it
[04:50] <superm1> if you want to change it you can
[04:50] <superm1> but it wont change it for you
[04:50] <Dr_willis> levander,  if you use the Mythbuntu cd to install. then yuy have mythbuntu-desktop allready. :)
[04:50] <levander> superm1: If you remove stuff mythbuntu-desktop depends on, you have to remove mythbuntu-desktop too.  It defeats the purpose of the meta-package for updating.
[04:51] <superm1> levander, well that's why for hardy a lot of the stuff will be made recommends
[04:51] <superm1> because recommends are installed by default as of hardy
[04:51] <superm1> so it will still pull everything but let you safely remove stuff that isn't necessary for your purposes
[04:51] <levander> wow, that's a big change in Ubuntu, I'm really surprised they're installing Recommends automatically
[04:52] <superm1> i was in the BoF talking about it at UDS
[04:52] <superm1> it is a pretty controversial decision indeed
[04:52] <levander> superm1: Ah, now I understand installing Recommends
[04:52] <levander> What's a BoF, a UDS?
[04:52] <superm1> haha.  BoF = Birds of a Feather (smaller discussion)
[04:52] <superm1> UDS is the Ubuntu Developers Summit
[04:53] <levander> You work for Canonical?
[04:53] <superm1> nope.
[04:53] <superm1> this all out of free time
[04:53] <superm1> (probably more than i should put in, but eh :))
[04:54] <levander> With so many people volunteering and doing free work for Ubuntu, it's like they're going to be morally obligated to donate any money they ever might make to charity.
[04:54] <levander> Never has a company gotten so many free workers.
[04:54] <superm1> its a weird addition
[04:54] <superm1> addiction that is
[04:54] <levander> superm1: But, you're probably developing relationships that will benefit you later on.
[04:54] <levander> Relationships are terribly important in business world.
[04:54] <superm1> levander, yeah i'm hoping so
[04:55] <levander> superm1: Next time you need a job, you'll have at least hundreds of people in the Ubuntu community who know who you are.
[04:55] <levander> brb
[04:55] <superm1> levander, well next time (first time) is actually coming up really soon.  I graduate this December :)
[04:58] <levander> need to be asking now who needs work done
[04:59] <Dr_willis> or learn 'do you want fries with that sir?'
[04:59] <Dr_willis> :)
[04:59] <superm1> haha
[04:59] <levander> superm1: Is it mostly college kids running around doing the Ubuntu stuff?  Or, is it more mixed?  Like, what's the percentage of college kids?
[04:59] <superm1> levander, its very very mixed
[04:59] <superm1> most the people i've worked with are older though
[04:59] <levander> superm1: What were the ages of the people at the BoF you were talking about?
[04:59] <superm1> but people range at least afaik from 14-50
[04:59] <superm1> 30's
[04:59]  * Dr_willis is old. I started college in 1986 :)
[05:00] <levander> those guys ought to be able to get you work, if they're in they're thirties
[05:00] <levander> they're in their**
[05:00] <superm1> well i've got several companies i'm waiting on offers for
[05:00] <Dr_willis> they can outsource the work to you!
[05:00] <superm1> for closer to the things i've gone to school
[05:00] <levander> yeah, comp sci is a good field, it's about as good as you can do with a 4 year degree
[05:00] <superm1> EE actually :)
[05:00] <levander> EE is about as good from what i've read
[05:01] <levander> but, i don't know much about EE
[05:01] <Dr_willis> Heh.. keep an open mind - I got an "Agriacultural Engineering" Degree.. and i work for Chrysler.
[05:01] <levander> superm1: What city you in?
[05:01] <superm1> Ames
[05:01] <Dr_willis> Because i had a broad area of knowledge. got me a good job there.
[05:01] <superm1> (IA)
[05:01] <superm1> ha really Dr_willis
[05:01] <levander> What city you think you're gonna end up working in?
[05:01] <superm1> levander, i've been interviewing all over the country
[05:01] <Dr_willis> Programing CNC/Machining tools - is.. interesting work.
[05:01] <superm1> texas, cali, mn
[05:02] <Dr_willis> When you program somthing that can wreck and cause MAJOR damage.. thats fun!
[05:02] <Dr_willis> Egads the things ive seen Robots do.
[05:03] <Dr_willis> Im talking robots that can take your head off.. or toss a Car Engine  100+ ft..
[05:03] <superm1> haha
[05:03] <superm1> what sorts of code do you write for them?
[05:05] <Dr_willis> I dont code.. i fix the robots. :)
[05:05] <Dr_willis> and other parts.
[05:05] <Dr_willis>  I tear them apart replace the gears/ belts/bearings so forth.
[05:05] <Dr_willis> and other machines.   I fix them when the programer messes up.
[05:05] <superm1> ah
[05:05] <Dr_willis> saw a - sign get in the wrong place once... That was a lot of sparks and grinding also. heh heh...
[05:06] <Dr_willis> Its amazing the abuse that Industral machines can take.
[05:06] <Dr_willis> its really really amazing when i see the Electrians throwing Dry Ice into a Computer/controlpanel for a machine.. to cool it down in the summer time.
[05:07] <Dr_willis> $1 million doller drill machine.. and we cool it with dry ice.
[05:07] <superm1> lol
[05:08] <Dr_willis> yes.. I will say that programing for "industry" is very interesting stuff.
[05:08] <Dr_willis> a whole different thing then programing web apps and so forth.
[09:13] <directhex|bsp> it r me!
[16:13] <Dabian> The keyboard locks up in "mythtv-setup" making it hard (if not impossible) to switch to the console during setup of "video sources"
[16:48] <wilberfan> morning room...
[16:49] <wilberfan> i just discovered my tvout works--but only during boot-up.....   What's the trick to getting it to work after x starts?
[16:49] <wilberfan> if i installed mythbuntu with the tv on during install....??
[16:49] <wilberfan> or, does anyone know what the Xorg would look like for NTSC?
[17:36] <hasse_> hey, i hav installed the mythbuntu, and everything was fine, i have updated to the weekly builds, and now i miss the libmythbuntu-0.20.2 pack, where to find that ?
[21:21] <scarter> i have multiple tuner cards and at every reboot, the cards change position. can someone point me to a FAQ or HOWTO that will assist me in solving this issue?
[21:26] <JThundley> I had that happen when I plugged in a webcam
[21:27] <RAdam1> Hi all. Trying to enable mouse support in my MythTV frontend. How do I do this?
[21:27] <JThundley> maybe put a script in /etc/rc.local to delete the device files and recreate them the way you want them
[21:27] <JThundley> I think there's a way you can do it with udev rules too, that'd probably be smarter
[21:28] <RAdam1> I just need to use a mouse to click on the menus, buttons, etc. I have a pretty vanilla mythbuntu install
[21:28] <RAdam1> I'm on that box now
[21:29] <scarter> RAdam1: on the second page of the frontend "Setup -> Appearance" is a checkbox for "Hide Mouse Cursor in Myth", un-check it.
[21:30] <scarter> JThundley: thanks, i'll look into that
[21:31] <RAdam1> scarter: thanks
[21:31] <scarter> JThundley: would that be something like abcd:1234 = /dev/videoX
[21:31] <JThundley> I say I think there's a way because I've never dicked with udev rules before, I have no idea
[21:32] <JThundley> I gave up on the webcam and rebooted with it unplugged, problem was solved for me
[21:33] <scarter> JThundley: ok... ;) i don't have a webcam installed, yet, was going to but until i can figure out how to keep /dev/videoX with its correct tuner, i don't want to add anything else
[21:34] <JThundley> my webcam took over /dev/video0 which bumped my tv tuner to /dev/video1, mythbackend got confused and wouldn't record or delete anything
[21:34] <JThundley> it was pretty funky
[21:35] <scarter> JThundley: yeah, every reboot, i have to go into the backend setup and re-assign the cards to their correct videoX detected position
[21:36] <JThundley> is it detected differently each time?
[21:36] <JThundley> I mean, if you do have two cards in there and it consistently detects the tuners the same, just change it in mythbackend and you'll be able to live with it, right?
[21:36] <scarter> JThundley: for the non-DVB cards (i.e. SD Tuners)
[21:37] <scarter> JThundley: however, i've got another DVB (HDTV Card) i want to add but am guessing that the same thing will happen with them
[21:40] <JThundley> looks like udev rules is what you want: http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html#why
[21:40] <JThundley> Provide an alternative/persistent name for a device node by creating a symbolic link to the default device node
[21:40] <JThundley> wait... that doesn't sound right
[21:40] <JThundley> oh wait, yes it does
[21:41] <JThundley> damn, I gotta set this up
[21:41] <JThundley> I have that exact problem with plugging in usb devices and the device changing based on which is plugged in first
[21:41] <JThundley> I have to unmount and re-plug in my stuff because it breaks my scripts :)
[22:10] <scarter> JThundley: i'm looking now too, i think you're right and that's what i need to do...
[22:28] <JThundley> I'm going to read that document later, so share your findings or troubles :)